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\"start\": 832.243, \"end\": 832.524, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 832.524, \"end\": 832.964, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 832.964, \"end\": 833.124, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 833.124, \"end\": 833.344, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 833.344, \"end\": 833.564, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 833.564, \"end\": 833.684, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 833.684, \"end\": 834.124, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 834.124, \"end\": 834.304, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 834.304, \"end\": 834.424, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 834.424, \"end\": 834.645, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 834.645, \"end\": 834.845, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 834.845, \"end\": 834.865, \"score\": 0.403}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 836.366, \"end\": 836.467, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 836.467, \"end\": 836.487, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,547 --> 00:00:07,088\n好,謝謝主席。有請副秘書長。請副秘書長,黃副秘書長。委員好。剛剛聆聽了這個莊瑞雄委員過去是律師出身。那我對於他很多對於我們稅務審理專法的一些提醒,我認為都值得討論。我謝謝莊委員真的替我們示範了什麼叫做舊法條論法條。\n\n2\n00:00:28,513 --> 00:00:35,458\n我也很多部分被他說服所以我非常支持未來在審議的過程該開公聽會我們願意開公聽會但是我也要提醒稍後要處理臨時提案提案人黃國昌委員他說的也很正確這樣一個制度變革稅務處理的專法\n\n3\n00:00:54,472 --> 00:01:19,907\n他認為要開公聽會我們都支持民進黨團的立場就是多元討論這是我們一貫的立場所以說同樣的也希望對於憲政制度至深且遠的憲法訴訟法也請要開公聽會我想這是我們回到一個立法院我們在\n\n4\n00:01:21,168 --> 00:01:35,843\n會及更多的社會專業意見有利於我們修法立法的過程當中大家要一樣的標準一樣的開放性的心胸一樣的來擁抱多元的意見不應當說選擇性的來針對可以召開公聽會的議案才開公聽會這樣就是雙標了\n\n5\n00:01:44,071 --> 00:01:59,662\n所以非常遺憾憲法訴訟法呢這個黃國昌委員或是國民黨籍的委員並沒有同意委員會層級交開公聽會我認為稍後的臨時提案正式給黃國昌委員跟國民黨的委員們一個很好的\n\n6\n00:02:01,255 --> 00:02:01,355\n吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤\n\n7\n00:02:18,581 --> 00:02:44,286\n而依據201616年立法院三讀通過的納稅者權利保護法那個時候我沒有在司法法制委員會坦白講要藉由這個授權要定定進一步的稅務處理的專法我真的要多做功課那司改國是會議也因應一個新修的法也做出這樣子的建議我們都要來設置稅務法庭強化法官的稅務的專業能力\n\n8\n00:02:46,466 --> 00:02:59,274\n總委員剛說得很好這不是解決政府的問題是要解決人民的需要所以未來在設置稅務專業法庭的時候就要非常的嚴謹對於這個專業的意見不能偏廢下一頁\n\n9\n00:03:04,758 --> 00:03:04,778\n吳思瑤\n\n10\n00:03:40,043 --> 00:03:40,063\n議員吳思瑤\n\n11\n00:04:04,588 --> 00:04:29,258\n我要回到剛剛講的立委都支持要有專業法院或是專業法庭就是為了幫助人民落實司法改革但是呢總預算我看了你們的預算書有一個新興計畫籌設北部少年級家家事法院的計畫新年度編了一億四千三百八十萬嘛\n\n12\n00:04:30,461 --> 00:04:47,782\n如果總預算沒有進入審查或是這筆預算因為沒有審查而持續的被阻卻在外這是新興計畫喔那怎麼辦這條沒辦法過我們北部少年級家事法院就沒有辦法來籌設那你們有什麼配套\n\n13\n00:04:51,878 --> 00:05:10,014\n還是你要對國會提出呼籲說這些目前外界非常需求的一個新的這個制度跟規劃也是大院要求我們要設是沒有錯那我們也承諾了但是相對這些經費當然希望都能夠儘速得到大院的這個支持\n\n14\n00:05:10,114 --> 00:05:25,188\n目前籌設北部少年少家法院是還找不到地嗎?還只是租的而已嗎?對不對?對有一個中繼的地點大概在市里那一邊那接下來要成租成租需要一些經費是很好所以我們在這裡對國會的在野黨的委員提出呼籲\n\n15\n00:05:30,433 --> 00:05:47,139\n因應雙北的少年相關的案件案量龐大逐年增加這也是符合立法院的要求司法院積極來籌設北部少年法、少家法院迫在眉睫不要因為據審總預算讓這珍貴的新興計畫一億四千三百八十萬在\n\n16\n00:05:55,038 --> 00:05:57,042\n還遠在天邊,好嗎?我們一起向國會來訴求當然民進黨作為執政黨我們全力努力來推進總預算的審查謝謝複密。下一頁\n\n17\n00:06:07,355 --> 00:06:30,780\n那針對這個釋憲的結果我還是有一些需要導正的議題今天來跟副秘書長來做討論立法院要維護憲法而不是違逆憲法當大法官給了我們清楚的指引社會也給了立法院一個重考補考的機會立院就來當違憲的更生人吧\n\n18\n00:06:32,130 --> 00:06:52,606\n我們來把做錯的事、修錯的法改回來吧!切莫成為違憲的累犯了!下一頁這是吳思瑤我本人這段時間對於遵守憲法、服從憲法法庭的宣判我的五大主張就教於父命第一停止詆毀攻擊大法官\n\n19\n00:06:53,854 --> 00:07:17,469\n第二、禁訴行使合憲的人事同意權第三、終止各項已經被設立的違憲的調閱委員會或調查小組第四、憲法訴訟法應該開公聽會但是切莫再以修法來凌駕憲法應當停止審查可能再次違憲的憲法訴訟法\n\n20\n00:07:18,874 --> 00:07:30,159\n最後一個依據釋憲的結果來啟動立法院職權行使法的修法朝野合作請問我這五大主張復密狀有什麼指證您同意嗎\n\n21\n00:07:32,964 --> 00:07:32,984\n吳思瑤議員\n\n22\n00:07:55,811 --> 00:07:56,612\n我們持續努力,下一頁。\n\n23\n00:08:18,103 --> 00:08:29,320\n但是很遺憾在野黨的委員似乎是不想要修法下一頁甚至有委員說沒有義務來遵守違憲的判決下一頁\n\n24\n00:08:31,222 --> 00:08:53,815\n這個我已經社會都會背了憲法78條立法院委員的行為法第三條跟釋字185號都告訴我們首先合法立委在大沒有人可以例外下一頁我這段時間去特別審視了這幾年來大法官解釋之後立法院啟動修法的時程如果以釋字585號\n\n25\n00:08:55,436 --> 00:09:20,685\n解釋出來之後立法院隨即的來重啟爭調會條例的修法我要呼喚2006年的國民黨的立法委員們那個時候民進黨是在立法院是少數但是國民黨基於國會多數的時候也遵守了釋字585號進行了爭調會條例的修法完成了13條下一頁\n\n26\n00:09:24,713 --> 00:09:40,706\n是自6月3日立法院也很快速的重啟NCC組織法把違憲的政治力升到NCC委員的產生的這個違憲的作為導正了我真的也懷念起2007年的國民黨國會多數那個時候的國民黨欸因為即便他們是國會多數他們也遵守憲法的解釋完成了NCC組織法的修訂下一頁\n\n27\n00:09:54,119 --> 00:10:08,887\n﹗上一屆我已經在立法院的場域了。748號解釋之後同婚法案讓台灣成為世界進步的驕傲。亞洲第一個同婚法案的通過。那個時候社會壓力和其之大。\n\n28\n00:10:09,807 --> 00:10:32,929\n但是立法院不分黨派挺住壓力讓同婚法案可以三讀通過因應回應大法官的修憲我真的認為過去的國民黨做不到做得到過去的國民黨做得到現在的國民黨為什麼就不遵守憲法呢憲法只有一步\n\n29\n00:10:33,970 --> 00:11:01,509\n憲法沒有顏色不管誰在朝不管誰在也這都是立委修法的職責下一頁再下一頁第二個議題我很快主席將用一點點時間喔有國民黨的委員說現在要修公投法將公投覆決的範圍可以包括憲法法庭判決的結果請問這樣公投法的修法是不是再一次用修法來凌駕憲法了?傅敏\n\n30\n00:11:03,363 --> 00:11:06,985\n國民黨委員要做的是依據釋憲的結果啟動合憲的修法而不是在釋憲的結果之後不思悔改違憲上癮來加修惡法\n\n31\n00:11:27,899 --> 00:11:56,281\n二、修其他的法律包括公投法我舉例憲法78條很清楚的再次讓大家知道司法院解釋憲法解釋憲法是司法院的權利第二釋字185號我也不要再贅述很重要的公投法的第二條在全國性公投跟地方性公投都載明了依憲法的規定除憲法規定以外你\n\n32\n00:12:10,905 --> 00:12:31,356\n所以我希望在野黨的委員要做的是依據事先的結果來導正現在立法院職權行使法違憲的地方而不是該修的法不修現在反而用想方設法去改修其他的法律要再一次來推翻憲法\n\n33\n00:12:33,388 --> 00:12:55,978\n憲法解釋就等同於憲法要修公投法用公投來取代憲法這也是中華民國憲法所不容唯一公投能夠介入的就是修憲的層次如果在野黨的委員對於現在的憲政有很多的運作不滿意那麼大家務實的來討論修憲\n\n34\n00:12:59,019 --> 00:13:22,490\n說:「修法不能凌駕修憲。」所以過去2006、2007或是2016、17的立法院都可以克遵憲法能夠來把釋憲結果之後完備法制過去的國民黨做得到2024的國民黨沒有道理做不到我也補充一句2016的時代力量的黃國昌委員做得到\n\n35\n00:13:26,152 --> 00:13:54,865\n依據釋字748號我們一起朝野合作修正定定了、定定了同婚法案時代力量的黃國昌做得到現在民眾黨的黃國昌立委也應當做得到憲法只有一步我們就是做好來行使立法委員的憲法忠誠義務這是我誠懇的呼籲副院長辛苦了我們持續後續還有很多的意見要就交於您謝謝\n\n36\n00:13:56,366 --> 00:13:56,487\n謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1547\t7088\t好,謝謝主席。有請副秘書長。請副秘書長,黃副秘書長。委員好。剛剛聆聽了這個莊瑞雄委員過去是律師出身。那我對於他很多對於我們稅務審理專法的一些提醒,我認為都值得討論。我謝謝莊委員真的替我們示範了什麼叫做舊法條論法條。\n28513\t35458\t我也很多部分被他說服所以我非常支持未來在審議的過程該開公聽會我們願意開公聽會但是我也要提醒稍後要處理臨時提案提案人黃國昌委員他說的也很正確這樣一個制度變革稅務處理的專法\n54472\t79907\t他認為要開公聽會我們都支持民進黨團的立場就是多元討論這是我們一貫的立場所以說同樣的也希望對於憲政制度至深且遠的憲法訴訟法也請要開公聽會我想這是我們回到一個立法院我們在\n81168\t95843\t會及更多的社會專業意見有利於我們修法立法的過程當中大家要一樣的標準一樣的開放性的心胸一樣的來擁抱多元的意見不應當說選擇性的來針對可以召開公聽會的議案才開公聽會這樣就是雙標了\n104071\t119662\t所以非常遺憾憲法訴訟法呢這個黃國昌委員或是國民黨籍的委員並沒有同意委員會層級交開公聽會我認為稍後的臨時提案正式給黃國昌委員跟國民黨的委員們一個很好的\n121255\t121355\t吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤\n138581\t164286\t而依據201616年立法院三讀通過的納稅者權利保護法那個時候我沒有在司法法制委員會坦白講要藉由這個授權要定定進一步的稅務處理的專法我真的要多做功課那司改國是會議也因應一個新修的法也做出這樣子的建議我們都要來設置稅務法庭強化法官的稅務的專業能力\n166466\t179274\t總委員剛說得很好這不是解決政府的問題是要解決人民的需要所以未來在設置稅務專業法庭的時候就要非常的嚴謹對於這個專業的意見不能偏廢下一頁\n184758\t184778\t吳思瑤\n199923\t220043\t﹗\n220043\t220063\t議員吳思瑤\n244588\t269258\t我要回到剛剛講的立委都支持要有專業法院或是專業法庭就是為了幫助人民落實司法改革但是呢總預算我看了你們的預算書有一個新興計畫籌設北部少年級家家事法院的計畫新年度編了一億四千三百八十萬嘛\n270461\t287782\t如果總預算沒有進入審查或是這筆預算因為沒有審查而持續的被阻卻在外這是新興計畫喔那怎麼辦這條沒辦法過我們北部少年級家事法院就沒有辦法來籌設那你們有什麼配套\n291878\t310014\t還是你要對國會提出呼籲說這些目前外界非常需求的一個新的這個制度跟規劃也是大院要求我們要設是沒有錯那我們也承諾了但是相對這些經費當然希望都能夠儘速得到大院的這個支持\n310114\t325188\t目前籌設北部少年少家法院是還找不到地嗎?還只是租的而已嗎?對不對?對 有一個中繼的地點大概在市里那一邊那接下來要成租 成租需要一些經費是 很好 所以我們在這裡對國會的在野黨的委員提出呼籲\n330433\t347139\t因應雙北的少年相關的案件案量龐大逐年增加這也是符合立法院的要求司法院積極來籌設北部少年法、少家法院迫在眉睫不要因為據審總預算讓這珍貴的新興計畫一億四千三百八十萬在\n355038\t357042\t還遠在天邊,好嗎?我們一起向國會來訴求當然民進黨作為執政黨我們全力努力來推進總預算的審查謝謝複密。下一頁\n367355\t390780\t那針對這個釋憲的結果我還是有一些需要導正的議題今天來跟副秘書長來做討論立法院要維護憲法而不是違逆憲法當大法官給了我們清楚的指引社會也給了立法院一個重考補考的機會立院就來當違憲的更生人吧\n392130\t412606\t我們來把做錯的事、修錯的法改回來吧!切莫成為違憲的累犯了!下一頁這是吳思瑤我本人這段時間對於遵守憲法、服從憲法法庭的宣判我的五大主張就教於父命第一停止詆毀攻擊大法官\n413854\t437469\t第二、禁訴行使合憲的人事同意權第三、終止各項已經被設立的違憲的調閱委員會或調查小組第四、憲法訴訟法應該開公聽會但是切莫再以修法來凌駕憲法應當停止審查可能再次違憲的憲法訴訟法\n438874\t450159\t最後一個依據釋憲的結果來啟動立法院職權行使法的修法朝野合作請問我這五大主張復密狀有什麼指證您同意嗎\n452964\t452984\t吳思瑤議員\n475811\t476612\t我們持續努力,下一頁。\n498103\t509320\t但是很遺憾在野黨的委員似乎是不想要修法下一頁甚至有委員說沒有義務來遵守違憲的判決下一頁\n511222\t533815\t這個我已經社會都會背了憲法78條立法院委員的行為法第三條跟釋字185號都告訴我們首先合法立委在大沒有人可以例外下一頁我這段時間去特別審視了這幾年來大法官解釋之後立法院啟動修法的時程如果以釋字585號\n535436\t560685\t解釋出來之後立法院隨即的來重啟爭調會條例的修法我要呼喚2006年的國民黨的立法委員們那個時候民進黨是在立法院是少數但是國民黨基於國會多數的時候也遵守了釋字585號進行了爭調會條例的修法完成了13條下一頁\n564713\t580706\t是自6月3日立法院也很快速的重啟NCC組織法把違憲的政治力升到NCC委員的產生的這個違憲的作為導正了我真的也懷念起2007年的國民黨國會多數那個時候的國民黨欸因為即便他們是國會多數他們也遵守憲法的解釋完成了NCC組織法的修訂下一頁\n594119\t608887\t﹗上一屆我已經在立法院的場域了。748號解釋之後同婚法案讓台灣成為世界進步的驕傲。亞洲第一個同婚法案的通過。那個時候社會壓力和其之大。\n609807\t632929\t但是立法院不分黨派挺住壓力讓同婚法案可以三讀通過因應回應大法官的修憲我真的認為過去的國民黨做不到做得到過去的國民黨做得到現在的國民黨為什麼就不遵守憲法呢憲法只有一步\n633970\t661509\t憲法沒有顏色不管誰在朝不管誰在也這都是立委修法的職責下一頁再下一頁第二個議題我很快主席將用一點點時間喔有國民黨的委員說現在要修公投法將公投覆決的範圍可以包括憲法法庭判決的結果請問這樣公投法的修法是不是再一次用修法來凌駕憲法了?傅敏\n663363\t666985\t國民黨委員要做的是依據釋憲的結果啟動合憲的修法而不是在釋憲的結果之後不思悔改違憲上癮來加修惡法\n687899\t716281\t二、修其他的法律包括公投法我舉例憲法78條很清楚的再次讓大家知道司法院解釋憲法解釋憲法是司法院的權利第二釋字185號我也不要再贅述很重要的公投法的第二條在全國性公投跟地方性公投都載明了依憲法的規定除憲法規定以外你\n716681\t730572\t﹏﹏\n730905\t751356\t所以我希望在野黨的委員要做的是依據事先的結果來導正現在立法院職權行使法違憲的地方而不是該修的法不修現在反而用想方設法去改修其他的法律要再一次來推翻憲法\n753388\t775978\t憲法解釋就等同於憲法要修公投法用公投來取代憲法這也是中華民國憲法所不容唯一公投能夠介入的就是修憲的層次如果在野黨的委員對於現在的憲政有很多的運作不滿意那麼大家務實的來討論修憲\n779019\t802490\t說:「修法不能凌駕修憲。」所以過去2006、2007或是2016、17的立法院都可以克遵憲法能夠來把釋憲結果之後完備法制過去的國民黨做得到2024的國民黨沒有道理做不到我也補充一句2016的時代力量的黃國昌委員做得到\n806152\t834865\t依據釋字748號我們一起朝野合作修正定定了、定定了同婚法案時代力量的黃國昌做得到現在民眾黨的黃國昌立委也應當做得到憲法只有一步我們就是做好來行使立法委員的憲法忠誠義務這是我誠懇的呼籲副院長辛苦了我們持續後續還有很多的意見要就交於您謝謝\n836366\t836487\t謝謝主席\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。有請副秘書長。請副秘書長,黃副秘書長。委員好。剛剛聆聽了這個莊瑞雄委員過去是律師出身。那我對於他很多對於我們稅務審理專法的一些提醒,我認為都值得討論。我謝謝莊委員真的替我們示範了什麼叫做舊法條論法條。\n我也很多部分被他說服所以我非常支持未來在審議的過程該開公聽會我們願意開公聽會但是我也要提醒稍後要處理臨時提案提案人黃國昌委員他說的也很正確這樣一個制度變革稅務處理的專法\n他認為要開公聽會我們都支持民進黨團的立場就是多元討論這是我們一貫的立場所以說同樣的也希望對於憲政制度至深且遠的憲法訴訟法也請要開公聽會我想這是我們回到一個立法院我們在\n會及更多的社會專業意見有利於我們修法立法的過程當中大家要一樣的標準一樣的開放性的心胸一樣的來擁抱多元的意見不應當說選擇性的來針對可以召開公聽會的議案才開公聽會這樣就是雙標了\n所以非常遺憾憲法訴訟法呢這個黃國昌委員或是國民黨籍的委員並沒有同意委員會層級交開公聽會我認為稍後的臨時提案正式給黃國昌委員跟國民黨的委員們一個很好的\n吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤\n而依據201616年立法院三讀通過的納稅者權利保護法那個時候我沒有在司法法制委員會坦白講要藉由這個授權要定定進一步的稅務處理的專法我真的要多做功課那司改國是會議也因應一個新修的法也做出這樣子的建議我們都要來設置稅務法庭強化法官的稅務的專業能力\n總委員剛說得很好這不是解決政府的問題是要解決人民的需要所以未來在設置稅務專業法庭的時候就要非常的嚴謹對於這個專業的意見不能偏廢下一頁\n吳思瑤\n﹗\n議員吳思瑤\n我要回到剛剛講的立委都支持要有專業法院或是專業法庭就是為了幫助人民落實司法改革但是呢總預算我看了你們的預算書有一個新興計畫籌設北部少年級家家事法院的計畫新年度編了一億四千三百八十萬嘛\n如果總預算沒有進入審查或是這筆預算因為沒有審查而持續的被阻卻在外這是新興計畫喔那怎麼辦這條沒辦法過我們北部少年級家事法院就沒有辦法來籌設那你們有什麼配套\n還是你要對國會提出呼籲說這些目前外界非常需求的一個新的這個制度跟規劃也是大院要求我們要設是沒有錯那我們也承諾了但是相對這些經費當然希望都能夠儘速得到大院的這個支持\n目前籌設北部少年少家法院是還找不到地嗎?還只是租的而已嗎?對不對?對 有一個中繼的地點大概在市里那一邊那接下來要成租 成租需要一些經費是 很好 所以我們在這裡對國會的在野黨的委員提出呼籲\n因應雙北的少年相關的案件案量龐大逐年增加這也是符合立法院的要求司法院積極來籌設北部少年法、少家法院迫在眉睫不要因為據審總預算讓這珍貴的新興計畫一億四千三百八十萬在\n還遠在天邊,好嗎?我們一起向國會來訴求當然民進黨作為執政黨我們全力努力來推進總預算的審查謝謝複密。下一頁\n那針對這個釋憲的結果我還是有一些需要導正的議題今天來跟副秘書長來做討論立法院要維護憲法而不是違逆憲法當大法官給了我們清楚的指引社會也給了立法院一個重考補考的機會立院就來當違憲的更生人吧\n我們來把做錯的事、修錯的法改回來吧!切莫成為違憲的累犯了!下一頁這是吳思瑤我本人這段時間對於遵守憲法、服從憲法法庭的宣判我的五大主張就教於父命第一停止詆毀攻擊大法官\n第二、禁訴行使合憲的人事同意權第三、終止各項已經被設立的違憲的調閱委員會或調查小組第四、憲法訴訟法應該開公聽會但是切莫再以修法來凌駕憲法應當停止審查可能再次違憲的憲法訴訟法\n最後一個依據釋憲的結果來啟動立法院職權行使法的修法朝野合作請問我這五大主張復密狀有什麼指證您同意嗎\n吳思瑤議員\n我們持續努力,下一頁。\n但是很遺憾在野黨的委員似乎是不想要修法下一頁甚至有委員說沒有義務來遵守違憲的判決下一頁\n這個我已經社會都會背了憲法78條立法院委員的行為法第三條跟釋字185號都告訴我們首先合法立委在大沒有人可以例外下一頁我這段時間去特別審視了這幾年來大法官解釋之後立法院啟動修法的時程如果以釋字585號\n解釋出來之後立法院隨即的來重啟爭調會條例的修法我要呼喚2006年的國民黨的立法委員們那個時候民進黨是在立法院是少數但是國民黨基於國會多數的時候也遵守了釋字585號進行了爭調會條例的修法完成了13條下一頁\n是自6月3日立法院也很快速的重啟NCC組織法把違憲的政治力升到NCC委員的產生的這個違憲的作為導正了我真的也懷念起2007年的國民黨國會多數那個時候的國民黨欸因為即便他們是國會多數他們也遵守憲法的解釋完成了NCC組織法的修訂下一頁\n﹗上一屆我已經在立法院的場域了。748號解釋之後同婚法案讓台灣成為世界進步的驕傲。亞洲第一個同婚法案的通過。那個時候社會壓力和其之大。\n但是立法院不分黨派挺住壓力讓同婚法案可以三讀通過因應回應大法官的修憲我真的認為過去的國民黨做不到做得到過去的國民黨做得到現在的國民黨為什麼就不遵守憲法呢憲法只有一步\n憲法沒有顏色不管誰在朝不管誰在也這都是立委修法的職責下一頁再下一頁第二個議題我很快主席將用一點點時間喔有國民黨的委員說現在要修公投法將公投覆決的範圍可以包括憲法法庭判決的結果請問這樣公投法的修法是不是再一次用修法來凌駕憲法了?傅敏\n國民黨委員要做的是依據釋憲的結果啟動合憲的修法而不是在釋憲的結果之後不思悔改違憲上癮來加修惡法\n二、修其他的法律包括公投法我舉例憲法78條很清楚的再次讓大家知道司法院解釋憲法解釋憲法是司法院的權利第二釋字185號我也不要再贅述很重要的公投法的第二條在全國性公投跟地方性公投都載明了依憲法的規定除憲法規定以外你\n﹏﹏\n所以我希望在野黨的委員要做的是依據事先的結果來導正現在立法院職權行使法違憲的地方而不是該修的法不修現在反而用想方設法去改修其他的法律要再一次來推翻憲法\n憲法解釋就等同於憲法要修公投法用公投來取代憲法這也是中華民國憲法所不容唯一公投能夠介入的就是修憲的層次如果在野黨的委員對於現在的憲政有很多的運作不滿意那麼大家務實的來討論修憲\n說:「修法不能凌駕修憲。」所以過去2006、2007或是2016、17的立法院都可以克遵憲法能夠來把釋憲結果之後完備法制過去的國民黨做得到2024的國民黨沒有道理做不到我也補充一句2016的時代力量的黃國昌委員做得到\n依據釋字748號我們一起朝野合作修正定定了、定定了同婚法案時代力量的黃國昌做得到現在民眾黨的黃國昌立委也應當做得到憲法只有一步我們就是做好來行使立法委員的憲法忠誠義務這是我誠懇的呼籲副院長辛苦了我們持續後續還有很多的意見要就交於您謝謝\n謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.547 --> 00:07.088\n好,謝謝主席。有請副秘書長。請副秘書長,黃副秘書長。委員好。剛剛聆聽了這個莊瑞雄委員過去是律師出身。那我對於他很多對於我們稅務審理專法的一些提醒,我認為都值得討論。我謝謝莊委員真的替我們示範了什麼叫做舊法條論法條。\n\n00:28.513 --> 00:35.458\n我也很多部分被他說服所以我非常支持未來在審議的過程該開公聽會我們願意開公聽會但是我也要提醒稍後要處理臨時提案提案人黃國昌委員他說的也很正確這樣一個制度變革稅務處理的專法\n\n00:54.472 --> 01:19.907\n他認為要開公聽會我們都支持民進黨團的立場就是多元討論這是我們一貫的立場所以說同樣的也希望對於憲政制度至深且遠的憲法訴訟法也請要開公聽會我想這是我們回到一個立法院我們在\n\n01:21.168 --> 01:35.843\n會及更多的社會專業意見有利於我們修法立法的過程當中大家要一樣的標準一樣的開放性的心胸一樣的來擁抱多元的意見不應當說選擇性的來針對可以召開公聽會的議案才開公聽會這樣就是雙標了\n\n01:44.071 --> 01:59.662\n所以非常遺憾憲法訴訟法呢這個黃國昌委員或是國民黨籍的委員並沒有同意委員會層級交開公聽會我認為稍後的臨時提案正式給黃國昌委員跟國民黨的委員們一個很好的\n\n02:01.255 --> 02:01.355\n吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤\n\n02:18.581 --> 02:44.286\n而依據201616年立法院三讀通過的納稅者權利保護法那個時候我沒有在司法法制委員會坦白講要藉由這個授權要定定進一步的稅務處理的專法我真的要多做功課那司改國是會議也因應一個新修的法也做出這樣子的建議我們都要來設置稅務法庭強化法官的稅務的專業能力\n\n02:46.466 --> 02:59.274\n總委員剛說得很好這不是解決政府的問題是要解決人民的需要所以未來在設置稅務專業法庭的時候就要非常的嚴謹對於這個專業的意見不能偏廢下一頁\n\n03:04.758 --> 03:04.778\n吳思瑤\n\n03:40.043 --> 03:40.063\n議員吳思瑤\n\n04:04.588 --> 04:29.258\n我要回到剛剛講的立委都支持要有專業法院或是專業法庭就是為了幫助人民落實司法改革但是呢總預算我看了你們的預算書有一個新興計畫籌設北部少年級家家事法院的計畫新年度編了一億四千三百八十萬嘛\n\n04:30.461 --> 04:47.782\n如果總預算沒有進入審查或是這筆預算因為沒有審查而持續的被阻卻在外這是新興計畫喔那怎麼辦這條沒辦法過我們北部少年級家事法院就沒有辦法來籌設那你們有什麼配套\n\n04:51.878 --> 05:10.014\n還是你要對國會提出呼籲說這些目前外界非常需求的一個新的這個制度跟規劃也是大院要求我們要設是沒有錯那我們也承諾了但是相對這些經費當然希望都能夠儘速得到大院的這個支持\n\n05:10.114 --> 05:25.188\n目前籌設北部少年少家法院是還找不到地嗎?還只是租的而已嗎?對不對?對有一個中繼的地點大概在市里那一邊那接下來要成租成租需要一些經費是很好所以我們在這裡對國會的在野黨的委員提出呼籲\n\n05:30.433 --> 05:47.139\n因應雙北的少年相關的案件案量龐大逐年增加這也是符合立法院的要求司法院積極來籌設北部少年法、少家法院迫在眉睫不要因為據審總預算讓這珍貴的新興計畫一億四千三百八十萬在\n\n05:55.038 --> 05:57.042\n還遠在天邊,好嗎?我們一起向國會來訴求當然民進黨作為執政黨我們全力努力來推進總預算的審查謝謝複密。下一頁\n\n06:07.355 --> 06:30.780\n那針對這個釋憲的結果我還是有一些需要導正的議題今天來跟副秘書長來做討論立法院要維護憲法而不是違逆憲法當大法官給了我們清楚的指引社會也給了立法院一個重考補考的機會立院就來當違憲的更生人吧\n\n06:32.130 --> 06:52.606\n我們來把做錯的事、修錯的法改回來吧!切莫成為違憲的累犯了!下一頁這是吳思瑤我本人這段時間對於遵守憲法、服從憲法法庭的宣判我的五大主張就教於父命第一停止詆毀攻擊大法官\n\n06:53.854 --> 07:17.469\n第二、禁訴行使合憲的人事同意權第三、終止各項已經被設立的違憲的調閱委員會或調查小組第四、憲法訴訟法應該開公聽會但是切莫再以修法來凌駕憲法應當停止審查可能再次違憲的憲法訴訟法\n\n07:18.874 --> 07:30.159\n最後一個依據釋憲的結果來啟動立法院職權行使法的修法朝野合作請問我這五大主張復密狀有什麼指證您同意嗎\n\n07:32.964 --> 07:32.984\n吳思瑤議員\n\n07:55.811 --> 07:56.612\n我們持續努力,下一頁。\n\n08:18.103 --> 08:29.320\n但是很遺憾在野黨的委員似乎是不想要修法下一頁甚至有委員說沒有義務來遵守違憲的判決下一頁\n\n08:31.222 --> 08:53.815\n這個我已經社會都會背了憲法78條立法院委員的行為法第三條跟釋字185號都告訴我們首先合法立委在大沒有人可以例外下一頁我這段時間去特別審視了這幾年來大法官解釋之後立法院啟動修法的時程如果以釋字585號\n\n08:55.436 --> 09:20.685\n解釋出來之後立法院隨即的來重啟爭調會條例的修法我要呼喚2006年的國民黨的立法委員們那個時候民進黨是在立法院是少數但是國民黨基於國會多數的時候也遵守了釋字585號進行了爭調會條例的修法完成了13條下一頁\n\n09:24.713 --> 09:40.706\n是自6月3日立法院也很快速的重啟NCC組織法把違憲的政治力升到NCC委員的產生的這個違憲的作為導正了我真的也懷念起2007年的國民黨國會多數那個時候的國民黨欸因為即便他們是國會多數他們也遵守憲法的解釋完成了NCC組織法的修訂下一頁\n\n09:54.119 --> 10:08.887\n﹗上一屆我已經在立法院的場域了。748號解釋之後同婚法案讓台灣成為世界進步的驕傲。亞洲第一個同婚法案的通過。那個時候社會壓力和其之大。\n\n10:09.807 --> 10:32.929\n但是立法院不分黨派挺住壓力讓同婚法案可以三讀通過因應回應大法官的修憲我真的認為過去的國民黨做不到做得到過去的國民黨做得到現在的國民黨為什麼就不遵守憲法呢憲法只有一步\n\n10:33.970 --> 11:01.509\n憲法沒有顏色不管誰在朝不管誰在也這都是立委修法的職責下一頁再下一頁第二個議題我很快主席將用一點點時間喔有國民黨的委員說現在要修公投法將公投覆決的範圍可以包括憲法法庭判決的結果請問這樣公投法的修法是不是再一次用修法來凌駕憲法了?傅敏\n\n11:03.363 --> 11:06.985\n國民黨委員要做的是依據釋憲的結果啟動合憲的修法而不是在釋憲的結果之後不思悔改違憲上癮來加修惡法\n\n11:27.899 --> 11:56.281\n二、修其他的法律包括公投法我舉例憲法78條很清楚的再次讓大家知道司法院解釋憲法解釋憲法是司法院的權利第二釋字185號我也不要再贅述很重要的公投法的第二條在全國性公投跟地方性公投都載明了依憲法的規定除憲法規定以外你\n\n12:10.905 --> 12:31.356\n所以我希望在野黨的委員要做的是依據事先的結果來導正現在立法院職權行使法違憲的地方而不是該修的法不修現在反而用想方設法去改修其他的法律要再一次來推翻憲法\n\n12:33.388 --> 12:55.978\n憲法解釋就等同於憲法要修公投法用公投來取代憲法這也是中華民國憲法所不容唯一公投能夠介入的就是修憲的層次如果在野黨的委員對於現在的憲政有很多的運作不滿意那麼大家務實的來討論修憲\n\n12:59.019 --> 13:22.490\n說:「修法不能凌駕修憲。」所以過去2006、2007或是2016、17的立法院都可以克遵憲法能夠來把釋憲結果之後完備法制過去的國民黨做得到2024的國民黨沒有道理做不到我也補充一句2016的時代力量的黃國昌委員做得到\n\n13:26.152 --> 13:54.865\n依據釋字748號我們一起朝野合作修正定定了、定定了同婚法案時代力量的黃國昌做得到現在民眾黨的黃國昌立委也應當做得到憲法只有一步我們就是做好來行使立法委員的憲法忠誠義務這是我誠懇的呼籲副院長辛苦了我們持續後續還有很多的意見要就交於您謝謝\n\n13:56.366 --> 13:56.487\n謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.547,"end":7.088,"text":"好,謝謝主席。有請副秘書長。請副秘書長,黃副秘書長。委員好。剛剛聆聽了這個莊瑞雄委員過去是律師出身。那我對於他很多對於我們稅務審理專法的一些提醒,我認為都值得討論。我謝謝莊委員真的替我們示範了什麼叫做舊法條論法條。"},{"start":28.513,"end":35.458,"text":"我也很多部分被他說服所以我非常支持未來在審議的過程該開公聽會我們願意開公聽會但是我也要提醒稍後要處理臨時提案提案人黃國昌委員他說的也很正確這樣一個制度變革稅務處理的專法"},{"start":54.472,"end":79.907,"text":"他認為要開公聽會我們都支持民進黨團的立場就是多元討論這是我們一貫的立場所以說同樣的也希望對於憲政制度至深且遠的憲法訴訟法也請要開公聽會我想這是我們回到一個立法院我們在"},{"start":81.168,"end":95.843,"text":"會及更多的社會專業意見有利於我們修法立法的過程當中大家要一樣的標準一樣的開放性的心胸一樣的來擁抱多元的意見不應當說選擇性的來針對可以召開公聽會的議案才開公聽會這樣就是雙標了"},{"start":104.071,"end":119.662,"text":"所以非常遺憾憲法訴訟法呢這個黃國昌委員或是國民黨籍的委員並沒有同意委員會層級交開公聽會我認為稍後的臨時提案正式給黃國昌委員跟國民黨的委員們一個很好的"},{"start":121.255,"end":121.355,"text":"吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤吳思瑤"},{"start":138.581,"end":164.286,"text":"而依據201616年立法院三讀通過的納稅者權利保護法那個時候我沒有在司法法制委員會坦白講要藉由這個授權要定定進一步的稅務處理的專法我真的要多做功課那司改國是會議也因應一個新修的法也做出這樣子的建議我們都要來設置稅務法庭強化法官的稅務的專業能力"},{"start":166.466,"end":179.274,"text":"總委員剛說得很好這不是解決政府的問題是要解決人民的需要所以未來在設置稅務專業法庭的時候就要非常的嚴謹對於這個專業的意見不能偏廢下一頁"},{"start":184.758,"end":184.778,"text":"吳思瑤"},{"start":199.923,"end":220.043,"text":" ﹗"},{"start":220.043,"end":220.063,"text":"議員吳思瑤"},{"start":244.588,"end":269.258,"text":"我要回到剛剛講的立委都支持要有專業法院或是專業法庭就是為了幫助人民落實司法改革但是呢總預算我看了你們的預算書有一個新興計畫籌設北部少年級家家事法院的計畫新年度編了一億四千三百八十萬嘛"},{"start":270.461,"end":287.782,"text":"如果總預算沒有進入審查或是這筆預算因為沒有審查而持續的被阻卻在外這是新興計畫喔那怎麼辦這條沒辦法過我們北部少年級家事法院就沒有辦法來籌設那你們有什麼配套"},{"start":291.878,"end":310.014,"text":"還是你要對國會提出呼籲說這些目前外界非常需求的一個新的這個制度跟規劃也是大院要求我們要設是沒有錯那我們也承諾了但是相對這些經費當然希望都能夠儘速得到大院的這個支持"},{"start":310.114,"end":325.188,"text":"目前籌設北部少年少家法院是還找不到地嗎?還只是租的而已嗎?對不對?對 有一個中繼的地點大概在市里那一邊那接下來要成租 成租需要一些經費是 很好 所以我們在這裡對國會的在野黨的委員提出呼籲"},{"start":330.433,"end":347.139,"text":"因應雙北的少年相關的案件案量龐大逐年增加這也是符合立法院的要求司法院積極來籌設北部少年法、少家法院迫在眉睫不要因為據審總預算讓這珍貴的新興計畫一億四千三百八十萬在"},{"start":355.038,"end":357.042,"text":"還遠在天邊,好嗎?我們一起向國會來訴求當然民進黨作為執政黨我們全力努力來推進總預算的審查謝謝複密。下一頁"},{"start":367.355,"end":390.78,"text":"那針對這個釋憲的結果我還是有一些需要導正的議題今天來跟副秘書長來做討論立法院要維護憲法而不是違逆憲法當大法官給了我們清楚的指引社會也給了立法院一個重考補考的機會立院就來當違憲的更生人吧"},{"start":392.13,"end":412.606,"text":"我們來把做錯的事、修錯的法改回來吧!切莫成為違憲的累犯了!下一頁這是吳思瑤我本人這段時間對於遵守憲法、服從憲法法庭的宣判我的五大主張就教於父命第一停止詆毀攻擊大法官"},{"start":413.854,"end":437.469,"text":"第二、禁訴行使合憲的人事同意權第三、終止各項已經被設立的違憲的調閱委員會或調查小組第四、憲法訴訟法應該開公聽會但是切莫再以修法來凌駕憲法應當停止審查可能再次違憲的憲法訴訟法"},{"start":438.874,"end":450.159,"text":"最後一個依據釋憲的結果來啟動立法院職權行使法的修法朝野合作請問我這五大主張復密狀有什麼指證您同意嗎"},{"start":452.964,"end":452.984,"text":"吳思瑤議員"},{"start":475.811,"end":476.612,"text":"我們持續努力,下一頁。"},{"start":498.103,"end":509.32,"text":"但是很遺憾在野黨的委員似乎是不想要修法下一頁甚至有委員說沒有義務來遵守違憲的判決下一頁"},{"start":511.222,"end":533.815,"text":"這個我已經社會都會背了憲法78條立法院委員的行為法第三條跟釋字185號都告訴我們首先合法立委在大沒有人可以例外下一頁我這段時間去特別審視了這幾年來大法官解釋之後立法院啟動修法的時程如果以釋字585號"},{"start":535.436,"end":560.685,"text":"解釋出來之後立法院隨即的來重啟爭調會條例的修法我要呼喚2006年的國民黨的立法委員們那個時候民進黨是在立法院是少數但是國民黨基於國會多數的時候也遵守了釋字585號進行了爭調會條例的修法完成了13條下一頁"},{"start":564.713,"end":580.706,"text":"是自6月3日立法院也很快速的重啟NCC組織法把違憲的政治力升到NCC委員的產生的這個違憲的作為導正了我真的也懷念起2007年的國民黨國會多數那個時候的國民黨欸因為即便他們是國會多數他們也遵守憲法的解釋完成了NCC組織法的修訂下一頁"},{"start":594.119,"end":608.887,"text":" ﹗上一屆我已經在立法院的場域了。748號解釋之後同婚法案讓台灣成為世界進步的驕傲。亞洲第一個同婚法案的通過。那個時候社會壓力和其之大。"},{"start":609.807,"end":632.929,"text":"但是立法院不分黨派挺住壓力讓同婚法案可以三讀通過因應回應大法官的修憲我真的認為過去的國民黨做不到做得到過去的國民黨做得到現在的國民黨為什麼就不遵守憲法呢憲法只有一步"},{"start":633.97,"end":661.509,"text":"憲法沒有顏色不管誰在朝不管誰在也這都是立委修法的職責下一頁再下一頁第二個議題我很快主席將用一點點時間喔有國民黨的委員說現在要修公投法將公投覆決的範圍可以包括憲法法庭判決的結果請問這樣公投法的修法是不是再一次用修法來凌駕憲法了?傅敏"},{"start":663.363,"end":666.985,"text":"國民黨委員要做的是依據釋憲的結果啟動合憲的修法而不是在釋憲的結果之後不思悔改違憲上癮來加修惡法"},{"start":687.899,"end":716.281,"text":"二、修其他的法律包括公投法我舉例憲法78條很清楚的再次讓大家知道司法院解釋憲法解釋憲法是司法院的權利第二釋字185號我也不要再贅述很重要的公投法的第二條在全國性公投跟地方性公投都載明了依憲法的規定除憲法規定以外你"},{"start":716.681,"end":730.572,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":730.905,"end":751.356,"text":"所以我希望在野黨的委員要做的是依據事先的結果來導正現在立法院職權行使法違憲的地方而不是該修的法不修現在反而用想方設法去改修其他的法律要再一次來推翻憲法"},{"start":753.388,"end":775.978,"text":"憲法解釋就等同於憲法要修公投法用公投來取代憲法這也是中華民國憲法所不容唯一公投能夠介入的就是修憲的層次如果在野黨的委員對於現在的憲政有很多的運作不滿意那麼大家務實的來討論修憲"},{"start":779.019,"end":802.49,"text":"說:「修法不能凌駕修憲。」所以過去2006、2007或是2016、17的立法院都可以克遵憲法能夠來把釋憲結果之後完備法制過去的國民黨做得到2024的國民黨沒有道理做不到我也補充一句2016的時代力量的黃國昌委員做得到"},{"start":806.152,"end":834.865,"text":"依據釋字748號我們一起朝野合作修正定定了、定定了同婚法案時代力量的黃國昌做得到現在民眾黨的黃國昌立委也應當做得到憲法只有一步我們就是做好來行使立法委員的憲法忠誠義務這是我誠懇的呼籲副院長辛苦了我們持續後續還有很多的意見要就交於您謝謝"},{"start":836.366,"end":836.487,"text":"謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":591,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（10時50分）謝謝主席，有請副秘。"],["主席：請黃副秘書長。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：剛剛聆聽了，莊瑞雄委員過去是律師出身，對於他對於稅務審理專法的很多提醒，我認為都值得討論，謝謝莊委員真的替我們示範了什麼叫做就法條論法條，很多部分我也被他說服，所以我非常支持未來在審議的過程，該開公聽會，我們願意開公聽會。但是我也要提醒，稍後要處理臨時提案，提案人黃國昌委員他說的也很正確，這樣一個制度變革，稅務處理的專法影響層面至深且遠，他認為要開公聽會，我們都支持，民進黨團的立場就是多元討論，這是我們一貫的立場。","所以同樣地也希望對於憲政制度影響至深且遠的憲法訴訟法，也請要開公聽會，我想我們立法院匯集更多的社會專業意見，有利於我們修法，立法的過程中，大家要一樣的標準，一樣的開放性的心胸，一樣的來擁抱多元的意見，不應當選擇性地來針對可以召開公聽會的議案才開公聽會，這樣就是雙標了。所以非常遺憾，有關憲法訴訟法，黃國昌委員或是國民黨籍的委員並沒有同意委員會層級召開公聽會，我認為稍後的臨時提案正是給黃國昌委員跟國民黨的委員們一個很好的思考機會，民進黨支持稅務審理專法可以開公聽會，藍白的委員也應當支持憲法訴訟法該開公聽會，同樣對於臺灣的法制影響至深且遠。","依據2016年立法院三讀通過的納稅者權利保護法，那個時候我沒有在司法及法制委員會，坦白講，要藉由授權進一步訂定稅務處理專法，我真的要多做功課。司改國是會議因應一個新修的法，也做出這樣的建議，要設置稅務法庭，強化法官的稅務專業能力。莊委員剛剛說得很好，這不是解決政府的問題，是要解決人民的需要，所以未來在設置稅務專業法庭的時候就要非常地嚴謹，對於專業的意見，不能偏廢。立法目的跟我們要解決的這些長年的問題，譬如萬年稅單，這些問題我都認為該解決，只是要更細緻，思考更多。相關的部分就是我想要檢視現在我們設置的專業法院或是法庭，我們現在的專業法院包括各級的行政法院，包括有了高雄少年及家事法院，也有了智慧財產及商業法院，都是與時俱進，我們讓司法更改革，我們讓所有的審議更有品質，落實專業性，所以設了專業法院。同樣地，在民事訴訟、刑事訴訟跟行政訴訟上，我們這幾年來透過努力，也設置了更多的專業法庭、專股，這都是對的方向，讓司法跟得上時代，因應多元的時代變遷需求。","但是我要回到剛剛講的，立委都支持要有專業法院或是專業法庭，就是為了幫助人民落實司法改革，但是總預算的部分，我看了你們的預算書，有一個新興計畫是籌設北部少年及家事法院的計畫，新年度編了1億4,380萬，如果總預算沒有進入審查，或是這筆預算因為沒有審查而持續地被阻卻在外，這是新興計畫，那怎麼辦？這條沒辦法過，我們的北部少年及家事法院就沒有辦法來籌設，你們有什麼配套？還是你要對國會提出呼籲？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：我們當然希望這些目前外界非常有需求的新的制度跟規劃，也是大院要求我們要設的……"],["吳委員思瑤：是，沒有錯。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：我們也承諾了，但是相對地，這些經費當然希望都能夠儘速得到大院的支持。"],["吳委員思瑤：目前籌設北部少家法院還找不到地，只是租的而已嘛，對不對？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：對，有一個中繼的地點大概在士林那一邊，接下來要承租，承租需要一些經費。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，很好。所以我們在這裡對國會的在野黨委員提出呼籲，因應雙北的少年相關案件案量龐大，逐年增加，這也是符合立法院的要求，司法院積極來籌設北部少家法院，迫在眉睫，不要因為拒審總預算，讓這珍貴的新興計畫1億4,380萬還遠在天邊，好嗎？我們一起向國會來訴求，當然民進黨作為執政黨，我們全力努力來推進總預算的審查，謝謝副秘。","接下來，針對釋憲的結果，我還是有一些需要導正的議題，今天來跟副秘書長做討論。立法院要維護憲法，而不是違逆憲法，當大法官給了我們清楚的指引，社會也給了立法院一個重考、補考的機會，立院就來當違憲的更生人吧，我們來把做錯的事、修錯的法改回來吧！切莫成為違憲的累犯。","下一頁是吳思瑤我本人這段時間，對於遵守憲法、服從憲法法庭的宣判，我的五大主張，就教於副秘：第一，停止詆毀攻擊大法官；第二，儘速行使合憲的人事同意權；第三，終止各項已經被設立的違憲的調閱委員會或調查小組；第四，憲法訴訟法應該開公聽會，但是切莫再以修法來凌駕憲法，應當停止審查可能再次違憲的憲法訴訟法；最後一個，依據釋憲的結果來啟動立法院職權行使法的修法，朝野合作。請問我這五大主張，副秘書長有什麼指正？您同意嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，有一些部分當然是大院的職權，我們當然尊重，當然我們站在司法行政的立場，希望大家都能夠尊重憲法法庭的裁判，當然也期盼能夠讓我們司法院的後續運作能夠順利，因為我們院長的任期就到明天……"],["吳委員思瑤：人事同意權是迫在眉睫。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：希望能夠及時產生，讓我們司法院後續很多的業務，包含剛才委員所垂詢到的一些政策，我們都需要新的首長來推動、指示，所以我們當然是希望能夠順利產生。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，好，我們持續努力。但是很遺憾，在野黨的委員似乎是不想要修法，甚至有委員說沒有義務遵守違憲的判決。這個社會都會背了，憲法第七十八條、立法院委員行為法第三條跟釋字第185號都告訴我們，守憲合法，立委再大，沒有人可以例外。","我這段時間特別去審視了這幾年來大法官解釋之後，立法院啟動修法的時程，如果以釋字第585號解釋出來之後，立法院隨即重啟真調會條例的修法，我要呼喚2006年的國民黨的立法委員們，那個時候民進黨在立法院是少數，但是國民黨基於國會多數的時候，也遵守了釋字第585號，進行了真調會條例的修法，完成了13條條文的修正。","釋字第613號，立法院也很快速地重啟NCC組織法，把政治力升到NCC委員產生的這個違憲作為導正了，我真的也懷念起2007年國會多數那個時候的國民黨，因為即便他們是國會多數，他們也遵守憲法的解釋，完成了NCC組織法的修訂。","上一屆我已經在立法院的場域了，第748號解釋之後，同婚法案讓臺灣成為世界進步的驕傲，亞洲第一個同婚法案的通過，那個時候社會壓力何其之大！但是立法院不分黨派挺住壓力，讓同婚法案可以三讀通過，因應、回應大法官的修憲，我真的認為，過去的國民黨做得到，現在的國民黨為什麼就不遵守憲法呢？憲法只有一部，憲法沒有顏色，不管誰在朝，不管誰在野，這都是立委修法的職責。","第二個議題，主席，我很快，再占用一點點時間。有國民黨委員說，現在要修公投法，將公投複決的範圍可以包括憲法法庭判決的結果，請問這樣公投法的修法，是不是再一次用修法來凌駕憲法了？副秘。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，這部分我們做司法行政的立場，我不敢講說這個……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，你不好評論。","最後，我以這一頁來呼籲，國民黨委員要做的是，依據釋憲的結果，啟動合憲的修法，而不是在釋憲的結果之後，不思悔改、違憲上癮、加修惡法、惡修其他的法律包括公投法。我舉例，憲法第七十八條很清楚地再次讓大家知道，司法院解釋憲法，解釋憲法是司法院的權力；第二，釋字第185號，我也不要再贅述；很重要的，公投法第二條，在全國性公投跟地方性公投都載明了，除了依憲法規定外，全國性公投可以適用哪些事項，地方性公投可以處理的範圍有什麼，公投法第二條也告訴我們，公投也不能違反憲法，所以我希望在野黨委員要做的，是依據釋憲的結果來導正現在立法院職權行使法違憲的地方，而不是該修的法不修，現在反而又想方設法去改修其他的法律要再次來推翻憲法。","憲法解釋就等同於憲法，要修公投法，用公投來取代憲法，這也是中華民國憲法所不容，唯一公投能夠介入的就是修憲的層次，如果在野黨的委員對於現在的憲政有很多的運作不滿意，那麼大家務實的來討論修憲。修法不能凌駕修憲，所以過去2006、2007或是2016、2017的立法院，都可以恪遵憲法，能夠在釋憲結果出來之後完備法制。過去的國民黨做得到，2024的國民黨沒有道理做不到。我也補充一句，2016時代力量的黃國昌委員做得到依據釋字第748號，我們一起朝野合作，訂定了同婚法案，時代力量的黃國昌做得到，現在民眾黨的黃國昌立委也應當做得到。","憲法只有一部，我們就是做好行使立法委員的憲法忠誠義務，這是我誠懇地呼籲。副秘書長辛苦了，我們後續還有很多的意見要就教於您，謝謝。謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員思瑤，謝謝黃副秘書長。現在我們來處理臨時提案，共1案，宣讀後再進行處理。請宣讀。","我國稅務救濟制度長年飽受批評，行政法院過度偏袒稅捐機關，人民難以獲得應有之公平裁決，嚴重侵害人民基本權。立法院司法及法制委員會審查司法院函請審議「稅務行政事件審理法草案」案，該草案以專法形式變更稅務行政訴訟制度，並設置稅務審查官、賦予當事人及第三人協力義務、排除當事人及第三人不自證己罪之原則、擴大律師強制代理範圍，影響層面至深且遠。","司法院雖於2024年8月12日舉辦「稅務行政事件審理法草案公聽會」，惟參與該公聽會73名代表僅有5名民間代表，且司法院未上網公開直播與會議紀錄，僅於會後發出新聞稿，淪為過水之政策宣導，如此黑箱作業恐難服眾。","為求審慎，爰建請司法及法制委員會於本案逐條審查前，舉辦公聽會廣納各界意見，邀請相關專家學者及民間團體共同集思廣益，以確保立法之周延。","提案人：黃國昌　　羅智強　　翁曉玲　　謝龍介"],["主席：請問提案委員有無補充說明？（無）沒有其他補充說明；針對臨時提案，請問機關有無其他意見或說明？這是臨時提案，因為是對本委員會的建議……"],["吳委員思瑤：還是我先發言？"],["主席：請吳委員發言。"],["吳委員思瑤：我非常同意，立法院在任何的法案審議之前，都應當好好來踐行民主討論的程序，所以針對稅務行政事件審理法草案，由委員會來召開公聽會，我當然都支持。如同提案人黃國昌委員所說的，這一個專法影響層面至深且遠，民進黨團的立場一致，我們支持可以開，但是也在這裡提請、呼籲提案人黃國昌委員，連署人羅智強委員、翁曉玲委員、謝龍介委員，希望大家能夠比照同樣的標準，影響層面至深且遠的，除了稅務行政事件審理法之外，憲法訴訟法影響臺灣的憲政運作至深且遠，為什麼憲法訴訟法沒有辦法在委員會召開公聽會呢？所以針對這樣子的提案，我們支持公聽會該開就開，但我還是要呼籲，憲法訴訟法的公聽會還來得及補正程序，希望有加入A案連署的委員也能來支持B案，否則就是雙標，好嗎？","明天委員會被迫召開的，並不是委員會層級的公聽會，我想立委要清楚我們的作業，委員會層級的公聽會因為國民黨委員的總召傅崐萁委員拒絕簽字，似乎黃國昌總召對於他已經簽字的同意召開，現在又反悔、有不同意見，以至於明天的公聽會就不是具比較高效力的委員會層級公聽會，我覺得非常遺憾，所以我支持這個提案，公聽會我們該開就開，任何的法案都要是同樣的標準，讓多元對話可以在立法院被踐行。"],["主席：好，謝謝。在翁委員發言之前，我請教一下機關代表，司法院8月12號開的會，你們是叫公聽會還是研修會？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：公聽會。"],["主席：公聽會，好，OK。請翁委員。"],["翁委員曉玲：我想身為立法委員，應該要了解立法院各個委員會的議事規則。剛剛吳思瑤委員說，上次委員會沒有召開公聽會，他可能已經搞不清楚。委員會已經審查過這個條文，條文通過之後，委員會本來就不可以再開公聽會，如果可以再開公聽會的話，那為什麼你們還要去政黨協商，還要找黨團的總召們再去簽協議？所以要討論這件事情，也要把議事規則弄清楚，要開公聽會，你們隨時都可以開公聽會啊！你們民進黨的委員不是明天就要召開公聽會啦！你們愛辦幾場就辦幾場，但是用委員會的名義來辦，基本上是要在這個法案還沒有討論之前。如果已經討論了，送出委員會了，基本上是沒有義務一定要辦公聽會。"],["主席：好，請莊委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：主席還有在場的委員，其實我很不想爭辯這一些，但是翁委員這樣講是錯的啦！因為上次到底要不要召開公聽會，以你現在講的，就是草案送出去以後，到最後就又沒辦法開公聽會，當初就是在討論這個，才說一定要先開公聽會，所以不要把話顛倒過來講。","至於今天這個提案，我認為是涉及到整個稅務行政審理的訴訟過程裡面要站在哪一方，法律的設計上是要增加在行政訴訟的時候，讓法官的審理更具備專業性，這當然是好事，但是確實也會涉及到我剛質詢的時候提到的所謂武器的不平等，還有過去長期以來，稅務人員都太忠於這個國家，這也都好事，但畢竟這是一個訴訟制度，要注重到雙方、兩造，所以這些人員的組成倒不是位階的問題，倒是從哪一個地方來的問題。剛剛副秘也提到，確實司法院如果有餘力的話，就這些人才庫，應該從他們自己本身、從自己的機關裡面產生，所以針對召開這樣一個公聽會的提案，我表示贊成。"],["主席：好，目前沒有其他反對意見，我先請問機關代表，有沒有其他的意見或說明？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，召開公聽會這點我們當然尊重，只是提案第二段寫到「司法院雖於2024年8月12日舉辦……公聽會」，「惟參與……僅有5民間代表」，最後說我們是黑箱跟過水的政策宣傳，我覺得這部分可能有點誤解……"],["莊委員瑞雄：刪掉就好了。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：建議可不可以不要有這些敘述？就直接接「為求審慎」這段？也就是為求審慎，再次召開。"],["主席：我說明一下。這個臨時提案是要求本委員會召開公聽會，基本上跟其他機關無涉。既然機關代表有這樣的看法，請問其他委員同不同意第二段修正？吳委員。"],["吳委員思瑤：我基本上同意，就是第一段跟第三段完整地把為什麼提這個法案？把立法院司法及法制委員會的委員們，不管是提案人或其他委員們為什麼都同意的理由放在第一段；至於第二段就是為求審議，我們要求廣納各界意見。有關中間這樣子的……我覺得司法院副秘書長講的，我非常同意，不用對人家這樣指涉。","我要講回來的是，今天為什麼要開這場……我們都同意開，因為它關乎稅務行政事件審理法，這是訴訟制度的革新，所以是訴訟制度上的配套要完備，強化行政法院的審理權限，建立訴訟上的配套措施，破除萬年稅單的問題。然後設置稅務審查官，強化審查效能，所以我們要審這個法、要開公聽會，都是要完備其訴訟制度。","同樣的，我再講回來，憲法訴訟法也是完備訴訟制度，而不是造成憲法法庭訴訟制度的崩壞或者是癱瘓，所以我不想針對程序上……剛剛翁委員講的足以驗證你們國民黨委員在上週審查憲法訴訟法，你們從頭到尾的政治意圖就是強行討論、快轉通過；通過之後，連公聽會都不能開，你剛剛說的就足以知道、足以驗證，這就是遂行你們害怕公聽會討論的作法。所以你剛剛講的就是你們所做的事情，不要現在來指鹿為馬，開公聽會不要雙標！我再一次懇求呼籲，如果未來還有機會，雖然明天司法及法制委員會被迫只能用個別委員的名義來召開，但委員會層級的憲法訴訟法，同樣攸關訴訟制度，那就是要來開。"],["主席：謝謝。本題是本委員會要不要開公聽會？聽起來大家都同意。就剛剛的部分，大家認為第二段有沒有必要保留？請謝委員。"],["謝委員龍介：第二段保留，但後面「淪為過水之政策宣導，如此黑箱作業恐難服眾」改成「僅於會後發出新聞稿恐難服眾」，就這樣子，其他就不用講太多。"],["主席：謝謝謝委員。"],["謝委員龍介：賣花的講花紅，賣茶的講茶香，如果想在政治鬥爭上贏你們民進黨，我想沒有幾個人在行。不要每次都這樣，你兒子放屁是在長大，別人的兒子放屁就說人家腸子爛，不要這樣啦！就兩套標準來說，國民黨跟不上民進黨，以上修正。"],["主席：好。這樣的修正大家同不同意？可以？我們依討論後之修正文字通過，謝謝。","我們休息10分鐘，謝謝。","休息（11時14分）","繼續開會（11時31分）"],["主席：繼續開會。現在有請賴委員士葆發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-10","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","謝龍介","羅智強","沈發惠","吳宗憲","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","翁曉玲","賴士葆","洪孟楷","林思銘","傅崐萁"],"page_start":145,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查司法院函請審議「稅務行政事件審理法草案」案；二、審查司法院函請審議「行政法院\n組織法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139201_00003"}}}