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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,291 --> 00:00:08,932\n麻煩請文化部長好有請部長葉委員你好部長好我先跟你詢問一下另外一個不義的事情就是我看到前兩天文化部有回應記者的詢問的時候說現在已經受理了1300件黃牛票的檢舉案請問最新介紹幾件呢?到今天為止介紹幾件呢?\n\n2\n00:00:33,917 --> 00:00:36,119\n兩天前是一千三百件嘛,那今天是幾件?幾件?\n\n3\n00:00:46,010 --> 00:01:08,502\n兩千多少?兩千七百件。兩千七百件。等於是說兩天前一千三百件,現在已經兩千七百件,已經兩倍以上了。所以之後可能會越來越多啦齁。那我想問一下部長,因為兩天前文化部接受媒體訪問的時候說要修法。說要修法二指,請問是要修法的方向是什麼?\n\n4\n00:01:10,003 --> 00:01:10,583\n我舉一個最近連續兩場那個\n\n5\n00:01:37,637 --> 00:01:40,038\n：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會\n\n6\n00:02:06,610 --> 00:02:21,330\n所以最後如果這些都不行的話就可能考慮修法那所謂的修法就是您看看用什麼方式所以部長的意思是說未來考慮要修法讓以後演唱會都實名制當然不是是這個意思當然不是你剛剛講就是這個意思不是部長我們來這邊答詢時間有限啦可不可以針對問題回答因為這是一個\n\n7\n00:02:24,674 --> 00:02:24,794\n主席,會議詢問。\n\n8\n00:02:45,197 --> 00:02:54,525\n如果,因為我們,先暫停好不好,先暫停。可以啊,暫停啊。詢問什麼?不是,我們,因為我們問的問題,那個部長一直繞圈圈,繞完6分鐘就結束,我什麼都沒問到。\n\n9\n00:02:55,950 --> 00:03:19,620\n因為剛剛我跟部長問他說那個文資法要修法要怎麼修然後才能夠惡意黃牛然後結果部長說像我們參考有一些演唱會用實名制我們現在是勸說但是實名制效果很好所以我們考慮修法那我就問他說那是不是要修法成以後都實名制他又說不是那等於是剛剛那前面三分鐘我們不知道在講什麼可不可以跟\n\n10\n00:03:21,521 --> 00:03:37,015\n現在你問我的這個會議詢問,這個不算時間,但是待會我想這個部分我沒辦法直接介入就是說部長的答案你會請部長針對問題回答,不然這樣惹落半天,這個答詢再來你自己跟部長直接繼續\n\n11\n00:03:38,576 --> 00:03:40,118\n教育及文化委員會主席\n\n12\n00:03:56,218 --> 00:03:56,758\n我只講這個事情而已。\n\n13\n00:04:16,670 --> 00:04:21,816\n所以主席你認為說部長不針對問題回答是OK的,反正交給選民來政治判斷喔?不是,部長當然要回答齁,但是每一個委員對部長的答案是否滿足你的部分,我就不接受判斷了嗎?那所以你覺得剛剛部長這樣子有針對問題回答?\n\n14\n00:04:35,632 --> 00:04:51,693\n就是那個我想這個部分我就不介入判斷好嗎?不介入判斷要不然每一個不同黨派的委員都要求我判斷的話我覺得我只是要求說請你站在主席的角度現在在立法院被詢就是要針對問題回答如果說只是想說我要把這6分鐘拖掉\n\n15\n00:05:11,447 --> 00:05:25,521\n我沒有質詢你啊,我只是說你作為主席,不然主席做召委。主席維持中立,實質的答案委員滿不滿意,我沒有辦法接受判斷。那主席請問一下,我們要求他按照問題回答,這是可以的嗎?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?那你的會議詢問我已經答完了。好,謝謝主席。那剛剛實質,那現在繼續計時。\n\n16\n00:05:36,107 --> 00:05:36,528\n那你剛剛為什麼不講?\n\n17\n00:05:46,396 --> 00:06:09,908\n我只是一個前言講到說最近有這樣一個兩個。不要打斷我。我們會繼續跟地方政府嚴密考慮所瑕的大型場館。就是大型場館都是由地方政府在管。我們來設計實名制入場的規範或者優惠。優惠就是我們現在正在做的。你用實名制我就給你一些補助。\n\n18\n00:06:10,828 --> 00:06:39,310\n提振業者採行實名制入廠的意願。第2與相關單位延伸重新思考合理的銷售成本,強制實名制資料調查權等措施調整之可行性。好,那這修哪一個法?因為你們文化部說要修法嘛,那你現在都是用鼓勵啊,或是在執行上面比較強硬啊。那你要修哪一個法?我的問題是你要修哪一個法?\n\n19\n00:06:44,035 --> 00:07:00,160\n對嘛!你現在就沒有要修法嘛!你剛剛講那兩個都是說你要鼓勵透過獎勵或是更嚴格的方式落實實名制嘛!我現在問題是說你要修什麼法來遏止黃牛?你要修文創法方向是什麼?你要怎麼修?但是立法院一定要支持我啊!\n\n20\n00:07:06,602 --> 00:07:22,596\n議員范雲知不知我先問你的態度嘛不要扯別的嘛我態度已經講了嗎你的態度就是要修文創法以後規定實名制是不是不一定就不一定了我剛才已經很完整念完了所以你修法內容是說以後我們不一定實名制那這個法律有修跟沒修的等等我剛才為什麼要一個字一個字念就是那個部長部長\n\n21\n00:07:24,977 --> 00:07:49,303\n你沒有回答到我的問題沒有關係啦我覺得按照召委說法這就大家可受公平啦因為你們告訴媒體說你們考慮修法我來這邊問你要修什麼法你又告訴我說你一直在執行上面你要更鼓勵大家做實名制然後你又說希望我們立法院可以支持你就沒有要修法你要我們支持什麼我現在就是你就是沒有針對我的問題回答沒關係沒關係這我們就交給我們這個大家去公平啦那我再問部長一個問題\n\n22\n00:07:50,944 --> 00:08:06,984\n現在那一天你來的時候剛好中午有時候是周杰倫的黃牛票開賣然後當時早上很多人都提醒你說網路上有非常多周杰倫的黃牛票在代購我當時也有提醒你然後部長你的意思是說有人檢舉我們才會辦我們不主動稽查\n\n23\n00:08:09,006 --> 00:08:36,009\n結果後來整個網路炸鍋一堆人確實就是因為繞圈圈買不到所以政府開始動起來了警政署下令然後地方政府文化部就開始去查所以剛剛講說2700多件嘛我只要提醒部長第一個啦如果在開賣之前你們就主動積查的話那麼多人檢舉給你們你們主動積查的話實際上情況可能會小很多第二個現在即便是你們積查有抓到很多黃牛那衍生出幾個問題我跟請請教第一個\n\n24\n00:08:36,710 --> 00:08:43,093\n那些黃牛他們買到的票他們搶到的序號有的搶到幾百個序號請問一下這序號怎麼處理?搶到的序號怎麼處理?你問的問題是必須主辦單位你就是打黃牛的主辦單位阿又不是喔?\n\n25\n00:08:59,959 --> 00:09:24,872\n經濟公司也好。經濟公司。主辦單位。所以打黃牛這件事情是經濟公司自己去打,文化不關?委員,其實你要知道黃牛的生成是非常複雜的。絕對不是,我今天不是跟你在討論哲學的問題,我問的問題都很具體。我的問題是說,這一些用掃票機器人在網路上掃到了序號幾百個,後來因為稽查的結果發現這些都要沒收嗎?\n\n26\n00:09:25,592 --> 00:09:31,457\n那怎麼處理?你們的做法是還給主辦單位還是沒收還是怎麼處理?我現在問你這個問題嘛。這問題很具體吧?\n\n27\n00:09:36,854 --> 00:09:59,055\n我們無權沒收。無權沒收,所以怎麼處理?我一直在跟委員解釋。那怎麼處理嘛?你無權沒收好,那這個序號就沒了,所以主辦單位就空在那邊,還是說你們抓到之後會把這個序號還給主辦單位,請主辦單位擇期再一次辦理線上的搶票,是怎麼做?你們都沒有去想到嗎?\n\n28\n00:10:00,848 --> 00:10:29,987\n你們都沒有去想到這個問題嗎?然後我再請教一個問題等一下一起回答那有人因為事件已經跟黃牛買了他看到代購網站他事件已經跟黃牛買了錢已經匯給黃牛了結果這些黃牛序號被沒收以後被沒收以後這個票他買不到那黃牛又不還錢給這些人那所以造成的問題是是司法問題對不對?是民事嗎?還是政府會怎麼樣去處理這件事情?兩個問題簡單回答吧因為我時間到了\n\n29\n00:10:31,291 --> 00:10:55,287\n委員好,先謝謝委員的意見喔,那先說明一下因為那個基本上黃牛這邊他其實當時是不正方式的掃票就是警方沒入之後他其實是一個刑法偵查的過程所以這一下我們前面在新聞稿的時候也有對外說明我們其實會主動跟主辦單位了解但主辦單位目前的狀況是他這邊的說明是他先配合警方他相關的序號確實現在是警方這邊還在持續偵辦當中那我們會持續跟他們溝通怎麼樣是對消費者權益保障\n\n30\n00:11:01,431 --> 00:11:01,531\n第二個問題\n\n31\n00:11:30,752 --> 00:11:31,012\n議員范雲等19人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6291\t8932\t麻煩請文化部長好有請部長葉委員你好部長好我先跟你詢問一下另外一個不義的事情就是我看到前兩天文化部有回應記者的詢問的時候說現在已經受理了1300件黃牛票的檢舉案請問最新介紹幾件呢?到今天為止介紹幾件呢?\n33917\t36119\t兩天前是一千三百件嘛,那今天是幾件?幾件?\n46010\t68502\t兩千多少?兩千七百件。兩千七百件。等於是說兩天前一千三百件,現在已經兩千七百件,已經兩倍以上了。所以之後可能會越來越多啦齁。那我想問一下部長,因為兩天前文化部接受媒體訪問的時候說要修法。說要修法二指,請問是要修法的方向是什麼?\n70003\t70583\t我舉一個最近連續兩場那個\n97637\t100038\t：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會\n126610\t141330\t所以最後如果這些都不行的話就可能考慮修法那所謂的修法就是您看看用什麼方式所以部長的意思是說未來考慮要修法讓以後演唱會都實名制當然不是是這個意思當然不是你剛剛講就是這個意思不是部長我們來這邊答詢時間有限啦可不可以針對問題回答因為這是一個\n144674\t144794\t主席,會議詢問。\n165197\t174525\t如果,因為我們,先暫停好不好,先暫停。可以啊,暫停啊。詢問什麼?不是,我們,因為我們問的問題,那個部長一直繞圈圈,繞完6分鐘就結束,我什麼都沒問到。\n175950\t199620\t因為剛剛我跟部長問他說那個文資法要修法要怎麼修然後才能夠惡意黃牛然後結果部長說像我們參考有一些演唱會用實名制我們現在是勸說但是實名制效果很好所以我們考慮修法那我就問他說那是不是要修法成以後都實名制他又說不是那等於是剛剛那前面三分鐘我們不知道在講什麼可不可以跟\n201521\t217015\t現在你問我的這個會議詢問,這個不算時間,但是待會我想這個部分我沒辦法直接介入就是說部長的答案你會請部長針對問題回答,不然這樣惹落半天,這個答詢再來你自己跟部長直接繼續\n218576\t220118\t教育及文化委員會主席\n236218\t236758\t我只講這個事情而已。\n256670\t261816\t所以主席你認為說部長不針對問題回答是OK的,反正交給選民來政治判斷喔?不是,部長當然要回答齁,但是每一個委員對部長的答案是否滿足你的部分,我就不接受判斷了嗎?那所以你覺得剛剛部長這樣子有針對問題回答?\n275632\t291693\t就是那個我想這個部分我就不介入判斷好嗎?不介入判斷要不然每一個不同黨派的委員都要求我判斷的話我覺得我只是要求說請你站在主席的角度現在在立法院被詢就是要針對問題回答如果說只是想說我要把這6分鐘拖掉\n292875\t310947\t⋯⋯⋯⋯\n311447\t325521\t我沒有質詢你啊,我只是說你作為主席,不然主席做召委。主席維持中立,實質的答案委員滿不滿意,我沒有辦法接受判斷。那主席請問一下,我們要求他按照問題回答,這是可以的嗎?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?那你的會議詢問我已經答完了。好,謝謝主席。那剛剛實質,那現在繼續計時。\n336107\t336528\t那你剛剛為什麼不講?\n346396\t369908\t我只是一個前言講到說最近有這樣一個兩個。不要打斷我。我們會繼續跟地方政府嚴密考慮所瑕的大型場館。就是大型場館都是由地方政府在管。我們來設計實名制入場的規範或者優惠。優惠就是我們現在正在做的。你用實名制我就給你一些補助。\n370828\t399310\t提振業者採行實名制入廠的意願。第2與相關單位延伸重新思考合理的銷售成本,強制實名制資料調查權等措施調整之可行性。好,那這修哪一個法?因為你們文化部說要修法嘛,那你現在都是用鼓勵啊,或是在執行上面比較強硬啊。那你要修哪一個法?我的問題是你要修哪一個法?\n404035\t420160\t對嘛!你現在就沒有要修法嘛!你剛剛講那兩個都是說你要鼓勵透過獎勵或是更嚴格的方式落實實名制嘛!我現在問題是說你要修什麼法來遏止黃牛?你要修文創法方向是什麼?你要怎麼修?但是立法院一定要支持我啊!\n426602\t442596\t議員范雲知不知我先問你的態度嘛不要扯別的嘛我態度已經講了嗎你的態度就是要修文創法以後規定實名制是不是不一定就不一定了我剛才已經很完整念完了所以你修法內容是說以後我們不一定實名制那這個法律有修跟沒修的等等我剛才為什麼要一個字一個字念就是那個部長部長\n444977\t469303\t你沒有回答到我的問題沒有關係啦我覺得按照召委說法這就大家可受公平啦因為你們告訴媒體說你們考慮修法我來這邊問你要修什麼法你又告訴我說你一直在執行上面你要更鼓勵大家做實名制然後你又說希望我們立法院可以支持你就沒有要修法你要我們支持什麼我現在就是你就是沒有針對我的問題回答沒關係沒關係這我們就交給我們這個大家去公平啦那我再問部長一個問題\n470944\t486984\t現在那一天你來的時候剛好中午有時候是周杰倫的黃牛票開賣然後當時早上很多人都提醒你說網路上有非常多周杰倫的黃牛票在代購我當時也有提醒你然後部長你的意思是說有人檢舉我們才會辦我們不主動稽查\n489006\t516009\t結果後來整個網路炸鍋一堆人確實就是因為繞圈圈買不到所以政府開始動起來了警政署下令然後地方政府文化部就開始去查所以剛剛講說2700多件嘛我只要提醒部長第一個啦如果在開賣之前你們就主動積查的話那麼多人檢舉給你們你們主動積查的話實際上情況可能會小很多第二個現在即便是你們積查有抓到很多黃牛那衍生出幾個問題我跟請請教第一個\n516710\t523093\t那些黃牛他們買到的票他們搶到的序號有的搶到幾百個序號請問一下這序號怎麼處理?搶到的序號怎麼處理?你問的問題是必須主辦單位你就是打黃牛的主辦單位阿又不是喔?\n539959\t564872\t經濟公司也好。經濟公司。主辦單位。所以打黃牛這件事情是經濟公司自己去打,文化不關?委員,其實你要知道黃牛的生成是非常複雜的。絕對不是,我今天不是跟你在討論哲學的問題,我問的問題都很具體。我的問題是說,這一些用掃票機器人在網路上掃到了序號幾百個,後來因為稽查的結果發現這些都要沒收嗎?\n565592\t571457\t那怎麼處理?你們的做法是還給主辦單位還是沒收還是怎麼處理?我現在問你這個問題嘛。這問題很具體吧?\n576854\t599055\t我們無權沒收。無權沒收,所以怎麼處理?我一直在跟委員解釋。那怎麼處理嘛?你無權沒收好,那這個序號就沒了,所以主辦單位就空在那邊,還是說你們抓到之後會把這個序號還給主辦單位,請主辦單位擇期再一次辦理線上的搶票,是怎麼做?你們都沒有去想到嗎?\n600848\t629987\t你們都沒有去想到這個問題嗎?然後我再請教一個問題等一下一起回答那有人因為事件已經跟黃牛買了他看到代購網站他事件已經跟黃牛買了錢已經匯給黃牛了結果這些黃牛序號被沒收以後被沒收以後這個票他買不到那黃牛又不還錢給這些人那所以造成的問題是是司法問題對不對?是民事嗎?還是政府會怎麼樣去處理這件事情?兩個問題簡單回答吧因為我時間到了\n631291\t655287\t委員好,先謝謝委員的意見喔,那先說明一下因為那個基本上黃牛這邊他其實當時是不正方式的掃票就是警方沒入之後他其實是一個刑法偵查的過程所以這一下我們前面在新聞稿的時候也有對外說明我們其實會主動跟主辦單位了解但主辦單位目前的狀況是他這邊的說明是他先配合警方他相關的序號確實現在是警方這邊還在持續偵辦當中那我們會持續跟他們溝通怎麼樣是對消費者權益保障\n661431\t661531\t第二個問題\n690752\t691012\t議員范雲等19人擬具\n","txt":"麻煩請文化部長好有請部長葉委員你好部長好我先跟你詢問一下另外一個不義的事情就是我看到前兩天文化部有回應記者的詢問的時候說現在已經受理了1300件黃牛票的檢舉案請問最新介紹幾件呢?到今天為止介紹幾件呢?\n兩天前是一千三百件嘛,那今天是幾件?幾件?\n兩千多少?兩千七百件。兩千七百件。等於是說兩天前一千三百件,現在已經兩千七百件,已經兩倍以上了。所以之後可能會越來越多啦齁。那我想問一下部長,因為兩天前文化部接受媒體訪問的時候說要修法。說要修法二指,請問是要修法的方向是什麼?\n我舉一個最近連續兩場那個\n：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會\n所以最後如果這些都不行的話就可能考慮修法那所謂的修法就是您看看用什麼方式所以部長的意思是說未來考慮要修法讓以後演唱會都實名制當然不是是這個意思當然不是你剛剛講就是這個意思不是部長我們來這邊答詢時間有限啦可不可以針對問題回答因為這是一個\n主席,會議詢問。\n如果,因為我們,先暫停好不好,先暫停。可以啊,暫停啊。詢問什麼?不是,我們,因為我們問的問題,那個部長一直繞圈圈,繞完6分鐘就結束,我什麼都沒問到。\n因為剛剛我跟部長問他說那個文資法要修法要怎麼修然後才能夠惡意黃牛然後結果部長說像我們參考有一些演唱會用實名制我們現在是勸說但是實名制效果很好所以我們考慮修法那我就問他說那是不是要修法成以後都實名制他又說不是那等於是剛剛那前面三分鐘我們不知道在講什麼可不可以跟\n現在你問我的這個會議詢問,這個不算時間,但是待會我想這個部分我沒辦法直接介入就是說部長的答案你會請部長針對問題回答,不然這樣惹落半天,這個答詢再來你自己跟部長直接繼續\n教育及文化委員會主席\n我只講這個事情而已。\n所以主席你認為說部長不針對問題回答是OK的,反正交給選民來政治判斷喔?不是,部長當然要回答齁,但是每一個委員對部長的答案是否滿足你的部分,我就不接受判斷了嗎?那所以你覺得剛剛部長這樣子有針對問題回答?\n就是那個我想這個部分我就不介入判斷好嗎?不介入判斷要不然每一個不同黨派的委員都要求我判斷的話我覺得我只是要求說請你站在主席的角度現在在立法院被詢就是要針對問題回答如果說只是想說我要把這6分鐘拖掉\n⋯⋯⋯⋯\n我沒有質詢你啊,我只是說你作為主席,不然主席做召委。主席維持中立,實質的答案委員滿不滿意,我沒有辦法接受判斷。那主席請問一下,我們要求他按照問題回答,這是可以的嗎?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?那你的會議詢問我已經答完了。好,謝謝主席。那剛剛實質,那現在繼續計時。\n那你剛剛為什麼不講?\n我只是一個前言講到說最近有這樣一個兩個。不要打斷我。我們會繼續跟地方政府嚴密考慮所瑕的大型場館。就是大型場館都是由地方政府在管。我們來設計實名制入場的規範或者優惠。優惠就是我們現在正在做的。你用實名制我就給你一些補助。\n提振業者採行實名制入廠的意願。第2與相關單位延伸重新思考合理的銷售成本,強制實名制資料調查權等措施調整之可行性。好,那這修哪一個法?因為你們文化部說要修法嘛,那你現在都是用鼓勵啊,或是在執行上面比較強硬啊。那你要修哪一個法?我的問題是你要修哪一個法?\n對嘛!你現在就沒有要修法嘛!你剛剛講那兩個都是說你要鼓勵透過獎勵或是更嚴格的方式落實實名制嘛!我現在問題是說你要修什麼法來遏止黃牛?你要修文創法方向是什麼?你要怎麼修?但是立法院一定要支持我啊!\n議員范雲知不知我先問你的態度嘛不要扯別的嘛我態度已經講了嗎你的態度就是要修文創法以後規定實名制是不是不一定就不一定了我剛才已經很完整念完了所以你修法內容是說以後我們不一定實名制那這個法律有修跟沒修的等等我剛才為什麼要一個字一個字念就是那個部長部長\n你沒有回答到我的問題沒有關係啦我覺得按照召委說法這就大家可受公平啦因為你們告訴媒體說你們考慮修法我來這邊問你要修什麼法你又告訴我說你一直在執行上面你要更鼓勵大家做實名制然後你又說希望我們立法院可以支持你就沒有要修法你要我們支持什麼我現在就是你就是沒有針對我的問題回答沒關係沒關係這我們就交給我們這個大家去公平啦那我再問部長一個問題\n現在那一天你來的時候剛好中午有時候是周杰倫的黃牛票開賣然後當時早上很多人都提醒你說網路上有非常多周杰倫的黃牛票在代購我當時也有提醒你然後部長你的意思是說有人檢舉我們才會辦我們不主動稽查\n結果後來整個網路炸鍋一堆人確實就是因為繞圈圈買不到所以政府開始動起來了警政署下令然後地方政府文化部就開始去查所以剛剛講說2700多件嘛我只要提醒部長第一個啦如果在開賣之前你們就主動積查的話那麼多人檢舉給你們你們主動積查的話實際上情況可能會小很多第二個現在即便是你們積查有抓到很多黃牛那衍生出幾個問題我跟請請教第一個\n那些黃牛他們買到的票他們搶到的序號有的搶到幾百個序號請問一下這序號怎麼處理?搶到的序號怎麼處理?你問的問題是必須主辦單位你就是打黃牛的主辦單位阿又不是喔?\n經濟公司也好。經濟公司。主辦單位。所以打黃牛這件事情是經濟公司自己去打,文化不關?委員,其實你要知道黃牛的生成是非常複雜的。絕對不是,我今天不是跟你在討論哲學的問題,我問的問題都很具體。我的問題是說,這一些用掃票機器人在網路上掃到了序號幾百個,後來因為稽查的結果發現這些都要沒收嗎?\n那怎麼處理?你們的做法是還給主辦單位還是沒收還是怎麼處理?我現在問你這個問題嘛。這問題很具體吧?\n我們無權沒收。無權沒收,所以怎麼處理?我一直在跟委員解釋。那怎麼處理嘛?你無權沒收好,那這個序號就沒了,所以主辦單位就空在那邊,還是說你們抓到之後會把這個序號還給主辦單位,請主辦單位擇期再一次辦理線上的搶票,是怎麼做?你們都沒有去想到嗎?\n你們都沒有去想到這個問題嗎?然後我再請教一個問題等一下一起回答那有人因為事件已經跟黃牛買了他看到代購網站他事件已經跟黃牛買了錢已經匯給黃牛了結果這些黃牛序號被沒收以後被沒收以後這個票他買不到那黃牛又不還錢給這些人那所以造成的問題是是司法問題對不對?是民事嗎?還是政府會怎麼樣去處理這件事情?兩個問題簡單回答吧因為我時間到了\n委員好,先謝謝委員的意見喔,那先說明一下因為那個基本上黃牛這邊他其實當時是不正方式的掃票就是警方沒入之後他其實是一個刑法偵查的過程所以這一下我們前面在新聞稿的時候也有對外說明我們其實會主動跟主辦單位了解但主辦單位目前的狀況是他這邊的說明是他先配合警方他相關的序號確實現在是警方這邊還在持續偵辦當中那我們會持續跟他們溝通怎麼樣是對消費者權益保障\n第二個問題\n議員范雲等19人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.291 --> 00:08.932\n麻煩請文化部長好有請部長葉委員你好部長好我先跟你詢問一下另外一個不義的事情就是我看到前兩天文化部有回應記者的詢問的時候說現在已經受理了1300件黃牛票的檢舉案請問最新介紹幾件呢?到今天為止介紹幾件呢?\n\n00:33.917 --> 00:36.119\n兩天前是一千三百件嘛,那今天是幾件?幾件?\n\n00:46.010 --> 01:08.502\n兩千多少?兩千七百件。兩千七百件。等於是說兩天前一千三百件,現在已經兩千七百件,已經兩倍以上了。所以之後可能會越來越多啦齁。那我想問一下部長,因為兩天前文化部接受媒體訪問的時候說要修法。說要修法二指,請問是要修法的方向是什麼?\n\n01:10.003 --> 01:10.583\n我舉一個最近連續兩場那個\n\n01:37.637 --> 01:40.038\n：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會\n\n02:06.610 --> 02:21.330\n所以最後如果這些都不行的話就可能考慮修法那所謂的修法就是您看看用什麼方式所以部長的意思是說未來考慮要修法讓以後演唱會都實名制當然不是是這個意思當然不是你剛剛講就是這個意思不是部長我們來這邊答詢時間有限啦可不可以針對問題回答因為這是一個\n\n02:24.674 --> 02:24.794\n主席,會議詢問。\n\n02:45.197 --> 02:54.525\n如果,因為我們,先暫停好不好,先暫停。可以啊,暫停啊。詢問什麼?不是,我們,因為我們問的問題,那個部長一直繞圈圈,繞完6分鐘就結束,我什麼都沒問到。\n\n02:55.950 --> 03:19.620\n因為剛剛我跟部長問他說那個文資法要修法要怎麼修然後才能夠惡意黃牛然後結果部長說像我們參考有一些演唱會用實名制我們現在是勸說但是實名制效果很好所以我們考慮修法那我就問他說那是不是要修法成以後都實名制他又說不是那等於是剛剛那前面三分鐘我們不知道在講什麼可不可以跟\n\n03:21.521 --> 03:37.015\n現在你問我的這個會議詢問,這個不算時間,但是待會我想這個部分我沒辦法直接介入就是說部長的答案你會請部長針對問題回答,不然這樣惹落半天,這個答詢再來你自己跟部長直接繼續\n\n03:38.576 --> 03:40.118\n教育及文化委員會主席\n\n03:56.218 --> 03:56.758\n我只講這個事情而已。\n\n04:16.670 --> 04:21.816\n所以主席你認為說部長不針對問題回答是OK的,反正交給選民來政治判斷喔?不是,部長當然要回答齁,但是每一個委員對部長的答案是否滿足你的部分,我就不接受判斷了嗎?那所以你覺得剛剛部長這樣子有針對問題回答?\n\n04:35.632 --> 04:51.693\n就是那個我想這個部分我就不介入判斷好嗎?不介入判斷要不然每一個不同黨派的委員都要求我判斷的話我覺得我只是要求說請你站在主席的角度現在在立法院被詢就是要針對問題回答如果說只是想說我要把這6分鐘拖掉\n\n05:11.447 --> 05:25.521\n我沒有質詢你啊,我只是說你作為主席,不然主席做召委。主席維持中立,實質的答案委員滿不滿意,我沒有辦法接受判斷。那主席請問一下,我們要求他按照問題回答,這是可以的嗎?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?那你的會議詢問我已經答完了。好,謝謝主席。那剛剛實質,那現在繼續計時。\n\n05:36.107 --> 05:36.528\n那你剛剛為什麼不講?\n\n05:46.396 --> 06:09.908\n我只是一個前言講到說最近有這樣一個兩個。不要打斷我。我們會繼續跟地方政府嚴密考慮所瑕的大型場館。就是大型場館都是由地方政府在管。我們來設計實名制入場的規範或者優惠。優惠就是我們現在正在做的。你用實名制我就給你一些補助。\n\n06:10.828 --> 06:39.310\n提振業者採行實名制入廠的意願。第2與相關單位延伸重新思考合理的銷售成本,強制實名制資料調查權等措施調整之可行性。好,那這修哪一個法?因為你們文化部說要修法嘛,那你現在都是用鼓勵啊,或是在執行上面比較強硬啊。那你要修哪一個法?我的問題是你要修哪一個法?\n\n06:44.035 --> 07:00.160\n對嘛!你現在就沒有要修法嘛!你剛剛講那兩個都是說你要鼓勵透過獎勵或是更嚴格的方式落實實名制嘛!我現在問題是說你要修什麼法來遏止黃牛?你要修文創法方向是什麼?你要怎麼修?但是立法院一定要支持我啊!\n\n07:06.602 --> 07:22.596\n議員范雲知不知我先問你的態度嘛不要扯別的嘛我態度已經講了嗎你的態度就是要修文創法以後規定實名制是不是不一定就不一定了我剛才已經很完整念完了所以你修法內容是說以後我們不一定實名制那這個法律有修跟沒修的等等我剛才為什麼要一個字一個字念就是那個部長部長\n\n07:24.977 --> 07:49.303\n你沒有回答到我的問題沒有關係啦我覺得按照召委說法這就大家可受公平啦因為你們告訴媒體說你們考慮修法我來這邊問你要修什麼法你又告訴我說你一直在執行上面你要更鼓勵大家做實名制然後你又說希望我們立法院可以支持你就沒有要修法你要我們支持什麼我現在就是你就是沒有針對我的問題回答沒關係沒關係這我們就交給我們這個大家去公平啦那我再問部長一個問題\n\n07:50.944 --> 08:06.984\n現在那一天你來的時候剛好中午有時候是周杰倫的黃牛票開賣然後當時早上很多人都提醒你說網路上有非常多周杰倫的黃牛票在代購我當時也有提醒你然後部長你的意思是說有人檢舉我們才會辦我們不主動稽查\n\n08:09.006 --> 08:36.009\n結果後來整個網路炸鍋一堆人確實就是因為繞圈圈買不到所以政府開始動起來了警政署下令然後地方政府文化部就開始去查所以剛剛講說2700多件嘛我只要提醒部長第一個啦如果在開賣之前你們就主動積查的話那麼多人檢舉給你們你們主動積查的話實際上情況可能會小很多第二個現在即便是你們積查有抓到很多黃牛那衍生出幾個問題我跟請請教第一個\n\n08:36.710 --> 08:43.093\n那些黃牛他們買到的票他們搶到的序號有的搶到幾百個序號請問一下這序號怎麼處理?搶到的序號怎麼處理?你問的問題是必須主辦單位你就是打黃牛的主辦單位阿又不是喔?\n\n08:59.959 --> 09:24.872\n經濟公司也好。經濟公司。主辦單位。所以打黃牛這件事情是經濟公司自己去打,文化不關?委員,其實你要知道黃牛的生成是非常複雜的。絕對不是,我今天不是跟你在討論哲學的問題,我問的問題都很具體。我的問題是說,這一些用掃票機器人在網路上掃到了序號幾百個,後來因為稽查的結果發現這些都要沒收嗎?\n\n09:25.592 --> 09:31.457\n那怎麼處理?你們的做法是還給主辦單位還是沒收還是怎麼處理?我現在問你這個問題嘛。這問題很具體吧?\n\n09:36.854 --> 09:59.055\n我們無權沒收。無權沒收,所以怎麼處理?我一直在跟委員解釋。那怎麼處理嘛?你無權沒收好,那這個序號就沒了,所以主辦單位就空在那邊,還是說你們抓到之後會把這個序號還給主辦單位,請主辦單位擇期再一次辦理線上的搶票,是怎麼做?你們都沒有去想到嗎?\n\n10:00.848 --> 10:29.987\n你們都沒有去想到這個問題嗎?然後我再請教一個問題等一下一起回答那有人因為事件已經跟黃牛買了他看到代購網站他事件已經跟黃牛買了錢已經匯給黃牛了結果這些黃牛序號被沒收以後被沒收以後這個票他買不到那黃牛又不還錢給這些人那所以造成的問題是是司法問題對不對?是民事嗎?還是政府會怎麼樣去處理這件事情?兩個問題簡單回答吧因為我時間到了\n\n10:31.291 --> 10:55.287\n委員好,先謝謝委員的意見喔,那先說明一下因為那個基本上黃牛這邊他其實當時是不正方式的掃票就是警方沒入之後他其實是一個刑法偵查的過程所以這一下我們前面在新聞稿的時候也有對外說明我們其實會主動跟主辦單位了解但主辦單位目前的狀況是他這邊的說明是他先配合警方他相關的序號確實現在是警方這邊還在持續偵辦當中那我們會持續跟他們溝通怎麼樣是對消費者權益保障\n\n11:01.431 --> 11:01.531\n第二個問題\n\n11:30.752 --> 11:31.012\n議員范雲等19人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.291,"end":8.932,"text":"麻煩請文化部長好有請部長葉委員你好部長好我先跟你詢問一下另外一個不義的事情就是我看到前兩天文化部有回應記者的詢問的時候說現在已經受理了1300件黃牛票的檢舉案請問最新介紹幾件呢?到今天為止介紹幾件呢?"},{"start":33.917,"end":36.119,"text":"兩天前是一千三百件嘛,那今天是幾件?幾件?"},{"start":46.01,"end":68.502,"text":"兩千多少?兩千七百件。兩千七百件。等於是說兩天前一千三百件,現在已經兩千七百件,已經兩倍以上了。所以之後可能會越來越多啦齁。那我想問一下部長,因為兩天前文化部接受媒體訪問的時候說要修法。說要修法二指,請問是要修法的方向是什麼?"},{"start":70.003,"end":70.583,"text":"我舉一個最近連續兩場那個"},{"start":97.637,"end":100.038,"text":"：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":126.61,"end":141.33,"text":"所以最後如果這些都不行的話就可能考慮修法那所謂的修法就是您看看用什麼方式所以部長的意思是說未來考慮要修法讓以後演唱會都實名制當然不是是這個意思當然不是你剛剛講就是這個意思不是部長我們來這邊答詢時間有限啦可不可以針對問題回答因為這是一個"},{"start":144.674,"end":144.794,"text":"主席,會議詢問。"},{"start":165.197,"end":174.525,"text":"如果,因為我們,先暫停好不好,先暫停。可以啊,暫停啊。詢問什麼?不是,我們,因為我們問的問題,那個部長一直繞圈圈,繞完6分鐘就結束,我什麼都沒問到。"},{"start":175.95,"end":199.62,"text":"因為剛剛我跟部長問他說那個文資法要修法要怎麼修然後才能夠惡意黃牛然後結果部長說像我們參考有一些演唱會用實名制我們現在是勸說但是實名制效果很好所以我們考慮修法那我就問他說那是不是要修法成以後都實名制他又說不是那等於是剛剛那前面三分鐘我們不知道在講什麼可不可以跟"},{"start":201.521,"end":217.015,"text":"現在你問我的這個會議詢問,這個不算時間,但是待會我想這個部分我沒辦法直接介入就是說部長的答案你會請部長針對問題回答,不然這樣惹落半天,這個答詢再來你自己跟部長直接繼續"},{"start":218.576,"end":220.118,"text":"教育及文化委員會主席"},{"start":236.218,"end":236.758,"text":"我只講這個事情而已。"},{"start":256.67,"end":261.816,"text":"所以主席你認為說部長不針對問題回答是OK的,反正交給選民來政治判斷喔?不是,部長當然要回答齁,但是每一個委員對部長的答案是否滿足你的部分,我就不接受判斷了嗎?那所以你覺得剛剛部長這樣子有針對問題回答?"},{"start":275.632,"end":291.693,"text":"就是那個我想這個部分我就不介入判斷好嗎?不介入判斷要不然每一個不同黨派的委員都要求我判斷的話我覺得我只是要求說請你站在主席的角度現在在立法院被詢就是要針對問題回答如果說只是想說我要把這6分鐘拖掉"},{"start":292.875,"end":310.947,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":311.447,"end":325.521,"text":"我沒有質詢你啊,我只是說你作為主席,不然主席做召委。主席維持中立,實質的答案委員滿不滿意,我沒有辦法接受判斷。那主席請問一下,我們要求他按照問題回答,這是可以的嗎?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?我可不可以回答?那你的會議詢問我已經答完了。好,謝謝主席。那剛剛實質,那現在繼續計時。"},{"start":336.107,"end":336.528,"text":"那你剛剛為什麼不講?"},{"start":346.396,"end":369.908,"text":"我只是一個前言講到說最近有這樣一個兩個。不要打斷我。我們會繼續跟地方政府嚴密考慮所瑕的大型場館。就是大型場館都是由地方政府在管。我們來設計實名制入場的規範或者優惠。優惠就是我們現在正在做的。你用實名制我就給你一些補助。"},{"start":370.828,"end":399.31,"text":"提振業者採行實名制入廠的意願。第2與相關單位延伸重新思考合理的銷售成本,強制實名制資料調查權等措施調整之可行性。好,那這修哪一個法?因為你們文化部說要修法嘛,那你現在都是用鼓勵啊,或是在執行上面比較強硬啊。那你要修哪一個法?我的問題是你要修哪一個法?"},{"start":404.035,"end":420.16,"text":"對嘛!你現在就沒有要修法嘛!你剛剛講那兩個都是說你要鼓勵透過獎勵或是更嚴格的方式落實實名制嘛!我現在問題是說你要修什麼法來遏止黃牛?你要修文創法方向是什麼?你要怎麼修?但是立法院一定要支持我啊!"},{"start":426.602,"end":442.596,"text":"議員范雲知不知我先問你的態度嘛不要扯別的嘛我態度已經講了嗎你的態度就是要修文創法以後規定實名制是不是不一定就不一定了我剛才已經很完整念完了所以你修法內容是說以後我們不一定實名制那這個法律有修跟沒修的等等我剛才為什麼要一個字一個字念就是那個部長部長"},{"start":444.977,"end":469.303,"text":"你沒有回答到我的問題沒有關係啦我覺得按照召委說法這就大家可受公平啦因為你們告訴媒體說你們考慮修法我來這邊問你要修什麼法你又告訴我說你一直在執行上面你要更鼓勵大家做實名制然後你又說希望我們立法院可以支持你就沒有要修法你要我們支持什麼我現在就是你就是沒有針對我的問題回答沒關係沒關係這我們就交給我們這個大家去公平啦那我再問部長一個問題"},{"start":470.944,"end":486.984,"text":"現在那一天你來的時候剛好中午有時候是周杰倫的黃牛票開賣然後當時早上很多人都提醒你說網路上有非常多周杰倫的黃牛票在代購我當時也有提醒你然後部長你的意思是說有人檢舉我們才會辦我們不主動稽查"},{"start":489.006,"end":516.009,"text":"結果後來整個網路炸鍋一堆人確實就是因為繞圈圈買不到所以政府開始動起來了警政署下令然後地方政府文化部就開始去查所以剛剛講說2700多件嘛我只要提醒部長第一個啦如果在開賣之前你們就主動積查的話那麼多人檢舉給你們你們主動積查的話實際上情況可能會小很多第二個現在即便是你們積查有抓到很多黃牛那衍生出幾個問題我跟請請教第一個"},{"start":516.71,"end":523.093,"text":"那些黃牛他們買到的票他們搶到的序號有的搶到幾百個序號請問一下這序號怎麼處理?搶到的序號怎麼處理?你問的問題是必須主辦單位你就是打黃牛的主辦單位阿又不是喔?"},{"start":539.959,"end":564.872,"text":"經濟公司也好。經濟公司。主辦單位。所以打黃牛這件事情是經濟公司自己去打,文化不關?委員,其實你要知道黃牛的生成是非常複雜的。絕對不是,我今天不是跟你在討論哲學的問題,我問的問題都很具體。我的問題是說,這一些用掃票機器人在網路上掃到了序號幾百個,後來因為稽查的結果發現這些都要沒收嗎?"},{"start":565.592,"end":571.457,"text":"那怎麼處理?你們的做法是還給主辦單位還是沒收還是怎麼處理?我現在問你這個問題嘛。這問題很具體吧?"},{"start":576.854,"end":599.055,"text":"我們無權沒收。無權沒收,所以怎麼處理?我一直在跟委員解釋。那怎麼處理嘛?你無權沒收好,那這個序號就沒了,所以主辦單位就空在那邊,還是說你們抓到之後會把這個序號還給主辦單位,請主辦單位擇期再一次辦理線上的搶票,是怎麼做?你們都沒有去想到嗎?"},{"start":600.848,"end":629.987,"text":"你們都沒有去想到這個問題嗎?然後我再請教一個問題等一下一起回答那有人因為事件已經跟黃牛買了他看到代購網站他事件已經跟黃牛買了錢已經匯給黃牛了結果這些黃牛序號被沒收以後被沒收以後這個票他買不到那黃牛又不還錢給這些人那所以造成的問題是是司法問題對不對?是民事嗎?還是政府會怎麼樣去處理這件事情?兩個問題簡單回答吧因為我時間到了"},{"start":631.291,"end":655.287,"text":"委員好,先謝謝委員的意見喔,那先說明一下因為那個基本上黃牛這邊他其實當時是不正方式的掃票就是警方沒入之後他其實是一個刑法偵查的過程所以這一下我們前面在新聞稿的時候也有對外說明我們其實會主動跟主辦單位了解但主辦單位目前的狀況是他這邊的說明是他先配合警方他相關的序號確實現在是警方這邊還在持續偵辦當中那我們會持續跟他們溝通怎麼樣是對消費者權益保障"},{"start":661.431,"end":661.531,"text":"第二個問題"},{"start":690.752,"end":691.012,"text":"議員范雲等19人擬具"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":459,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時10分）麻煩請文化部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：葉委員你好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。我先跟你詢問一下另外一個不義的事情，我看到前兩天文化部回應記者的詢問說，現在已經受理了1,300件黃牛票的檢舉案，請問最新接到檢舉幾件了，到今天為止，接到幾件？兩天前是1,300件嘛，那今天是幾件？"],["李部長遠：我請辦公室回答，因為它每天都在變化。"],["葉委員元之：幾件？"],["吳司長宜璇：委員好，目前針對周杰倫的部分，大概有收到2,700件的……"],["葉委員元之：兩千多少？你可不可以大聲一點？對著麥克風講。"],["吳司長宜璇：2,700件。"],["葉委員元之：2,700件，兩天前1,300件，現在是2,700件，等於已經是兩倍以上，之後可能會越來越多。我想問一下部長，因為兩天前文化部接受媒體訪問時說要修法遏止，請問修法的方向是什麼？"],["李部長遠：修法其實是很難的事情，但是我們要朝著這個方向，眼看這個事情可能要透過立法院的支持，我們再跟各部會一起討論……"],["葉委員元之：部長不要跟我講修法程序，我知道啦，我是說你們說要透過修法解決，是要修什麼法？是怎麼解？比如說把刑法加嚴還是說把樣態具象化，你要怎麼修法去遏止，要怎麼修？我知道修法程序。"],["李部長遠：我舉一個最近連續兩場演唱會的例子，他們自己直接訂定了實名制跟抽票制，有兩場立刻就要辦，那個可以給我們一個經驗，如果用實名制跟抽選制很成功的話，我們平常所採取的都是勸說，你知道我們開了多少場會議去勸經紀公司跟主辦單位說：你可不可以用實名制，我們可以補助你錢？其實文化部想盡各種方式，但是不能勉強，所以最後如果這些都不行的話，就可能考慮修法，所謂的修法就是看看用什麼方式……"],["葉委員元之：所以部長的意思是，未來考慮要修法，讓以後的演唱會都實名制，是不是這個意思？"],["李部長遠：當然不是這個意思。"],["葉委員元之：你剛剛講的就是這個意思。"],["李部長遠：不是……"],["葉委員元之：部長，我們來這邊答詢時間有限，可不可以針對問題回答？"],["李部長遠：我知道，因為這是一個……"],["葉委員元之：因為你剛剛講你參考了別的演唱會，發現他們用實名制跟抽票有用，因為你們過去都是用勸說，所以你們考慮未來都採用這個方式，因此是要修法，以後都實名制，是這個意思嗎？"],["李部長遠：No，因為我們本身……"],["葉委員元之：又不是了，那你剛剛講那一連串……主席，會議詢問！召委……"],["李部長遠：我們是一個法治國家……"],["葉委員元之：主席，會議詢問！因為我們……現在時間暫停好不好？時間暫停。"],["李部長遠：可以啊，暫停啊！"],["主席：詢問什麼？"],["葉委員元之：不是，因為我問的問題，部長一直繞圈圈，繞完6分鐘就結束，我什麼都沒問到，剛剛我問部長文資法要修法，要怎麼修才能夠阻止惡意黃牛，結果剛剛部長說：我們參考了一些演唱會用實名制，我們現在是勸說，但是實名制效果很好，所以我們考慮修法。那我就問他，是不是要修法成以後都實名制？他又說：不是。那等於剛剛前面3分鐘我們都不知道在講什麼，你可不可以跟……這個部分……"],["主席：現在你問我的這個會議詢問……"],["葉委員元之：對。"],["主席：這個不算時間……"],["葉委員元之：對。"],["主席：但是我想待會這個部分我沒辦法直接介入，就是說……"],["葉委員元之：你請部長針對問題回答，不然這樣子繞半天，這個答詢……"],["主席：好，再來你自己跟部長之間繼續詢答。"],["葉委員元之：你是以主席的角度，站在我們教文會……"],["主席：現在我們扣除你會議詢問的時間……"],["葉委員元之：對、對、對。"],["主席：但是你待會滿不滿意部長的回答，我想我們自己……因為這是一個政治的判斷嘛！"],["葉委員元之：這又政治判斷了？"],["主席：不是……"],["葉委員元之：你在教文委員會是主席嘛！"],["主席：例如郭昱晴委員可能覺得你有回答，然後……"],["葉委員元之：主席你要站在委員的角度跟部長講，要針對委員的問題回答，不是繞了半天最後又說不是。"],["主席：我現在已經回答你的問題了，我想我不介入判斷部長的答案你滿不滿意，好不好？要不然我們每個委員都這樣要求我的話，我們會議時間……"],["葉委員元之：我是請你跟部長講要針對問題回答，我只講這個事情而已。"],["主席：我想原則上我們對所有委員的質詢……"],["葉委員元之：所以主席你認為部長不針對問題回答是OK的，反正交給選民來政治判斷喔？"],["主席：不是，部長當然要回答，但是每一個委員對部長的答案是不是能夠滿足，我就不介入判斷，好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：剛剛那樣子，所以你覺得剛剛部長這樣子有針對問題回答嗎？"],["主席：這個部分我就不介入判斷。"],["葉委員元之：不介入判斷？"],["主席：要不然每一個不同黨派的委員都要求我判斷的話，我變成……"],["葉委員元之：我只是請你站在主席的角度，既然在立法院備詢，就是要針對問題回答，如果只是想要把這6分鐘拖掉，那這個備詢其實沒有什麼意義，因為只是拖時間……"],["主席：我想所有的部長不分黨派，當然都要……"],["葉委員元之：這個原則應該是不分黨派都支持的。"],["主席：所有委員的質詢……"],["葉委員元之：你作為主席，你就跟部長講，請部長針對問題回答，這有那麼難嗎？"],["主席：你希望現在我不是你的……我跟你平等，不是你質詢我。"],["葉委員元之：我沒有質詢你啊！我只是說你作為主席，不然主席做召委……"],["主席：我現在已經說，主席維持中立，關於實質的答案，委員滿不滿意我沒有辦法介入判斷，好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：好，請問一下主席，我們要求他按照問題回答是可以的嗎？"],["主席：你當然可以要求他按照問題答。"],["李部長遠：我可不可以回答？我可不可以回答？"],["主席：OK，你的會議詢問我已經答完了。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：OK，那現在時間繼續計時。"],["李部長遠：你讓我完整的答完，好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：不是，你要怎麼修法，你就跟我說你要修哪一條？"],["李部長遠：好，那我現在跟你說。"],["葉委員元之：對，哪一條？"],["李部長遠：你讓我唸好不好？"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["李部長遠：因為我們有完整的修法概念。"],["葉委員元之：那你剛剛為什麼不講？好，你請。"],["李部長遠：我只是一個前言講到最近有這樣兩個……"],["葉委員元之：好，請說，不要再浪費時間了。"],["李部長遠：請你不要打斷我。我們會繼續跟地方政府研議考慮所轄的大型場館，大型場館都是由地方政府在管，我們來設計實名制入場的規範或者優惠，優惠就是我們現在正在做的，你用實名制，我們就給你一些補助，提升業者採行實名制入場的意願；第二，與相關單位研商重新思考合理的銷售成本、強制實名制、資料調查權等措施調整之可行性。"],["葉委員元之：好，這是修哪一個法？因為你們文化部說要修法嘛，你們現在都是用鼓勵啊，或是在執行上面比較強硬，那你要修哪一個法？我的問題是，你要修哪一個法？"],["李部長遠：就原來的法律。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛，你現在就沒有要修法嘛，你剛剛講那兩個都是你們要鼓勵、透過獎勵或是更嚴格的方式落實實名制。"],["李部長遠：好，那我可以……"],["葉委員元之：我現在的問題是，你要修什麼法來遏止黃牛？"],["李部長遠：文創法，但是請你們立法院……"],["葉委員元之：你要修文創法，方向是什麼？你要怎麼修？"],["李部長遠：就是剛才那兩個方向。"],["葉委員元之：所以就是你要……"],["李部長遠：但是立法院一定要支持我啊。"],["葉委員元之：立法院支持不支持……我現在先問你的態度，不要扯別的嘛。"],["李部長遠：我態度已經講了啊。"],["葉委員元之：你的態度就是要修文創法，以後規定實名制是不是？"],["李部長遠：不一定，要透過……"],["葉委員元之：又不一定了？"],["李部長遠：我剛才已經很完整的唸完了。"],["葉委員元之：所以修法內容是，以後我們不一定實名制，這個法律有修跟沒修的差別在哪？"],["李部長遠：我剛才為什麼要一個字一個字唸，就是……"],["葉委員元之：部長……"],["李部長遠：我為什麼要一個字一個字唸，因為我不希望你扭曲……"],["葉委員元之：你沒有回答到我的問題，沒有關係啦！我覺得按照召委說法，這大家可受公評啦，因為你們告訴媒體說你們考慮修法，我來這邊問你要修什麼法，你又告訴我你只在執行上面要更鼓勵大家做實名制，然後你又說希望我們立法院可以支持你，你就沒有要修法，要我們支持什麼？現在你就是沒有針對我的問題回答。沒關係、沒關係，這我們就交給大家去公評啦！","我再問部長一個問題，那天你來的時候，剛好中午是周杰倫的黃牛票開賣，當時早上很多人都提醒你網路上有非常多周杰倫的黃牛票在代購，我當時也有提醒你，然後部長的意思是，有人檢舉你們才會辦，你們不主動稽查，結果後來整個網路炸鍋，一堆人確實就是因為繞圈圈買不到，所以政府開始動起來了，警政署下令，然後地方政府、文化部就開始去查，所以剛剛講二千七百多件，我只要提醒部長，第一個，如果在開賣之前，你們就主動稽查的話，那麼多人檢舉給你們，你們有主動稽查的話，實際上情況可能會少很多；第二個，現在即便是你們稽查有抓到很多黃牛，衍生出幾個問題，我跟您請教，那些黃牛買到的票、搶到的序號，有的搶到幾百個序號，請問一下這個序號怎麼處理？搶到的序號怎麼處理？"],["李部長遠：你問的問題是必須主辦單位……"],["葉委員元之：你就是打黃牛的主辦單位啊！"],["李部長遠：No、No……"],["葉委員元之：又不是了？"],["李部長遠：經紀公司也好……主辦單位……"],["葉委員元之：經紀公司？所以打黃牛這件事情是經紀公司自己去打，跟文化部都無關？"],["李部長遠：委員，其實你要知道，黃牛的生成是非常複雜的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，我今天不是跟你討論哲學的問題，我問的問題都很具體，我的問題是，這些用掃票機器人在網路上掃到了幾百個序號，後來因為稽查的結果發現這些都要沒收，那怎麼處理？你們的作法是還給主辦單位？還是沒收？還是怎麼處理？我現在問你這個問題嘛，這問題很具體吧？"],["李部長遠：我們無權沒收。"],["葉委員元之：無權沒收，所以怎麼處理？"],["李部長遠：我一直在跟委員解釋……"],["葉委員元之：那怎麼處理？"],["李部長遠：我一直在跟你解釋……"],["葉委員元之：你無權沒收，那這個序號就沒了，所以主辦單位就空在那邊，還是說你們抓到之後會把這個序號還給主辦單位，請主辦單位擇期再一次辦理線上的搶票，要怎麼做你們都沒有想到嗎？你們都沒有去想到這個問題嗎？然後我再請教一個問題，等一下一起回答。"],["李部長遠：好。"],["葉委員元之：有人因為看到代購網站事先就已經跟黃牛買了，錢已經匯給黃牛了，結果這些黃牛的序號被沒收以後，這個票他買不到，黃牛又不還錢給這些人，所造成的問題是私法問題，對不對？是民事嗎？還是政府會怎麼處理這件事情？就這兩個問題，請簡短回答，因為我的時間到了。"],["吳司長宜璇：委員好，先謝謝委員的意見。要先說明一下，因為基本上黃牛當時是以不正方式的掃票，在警方沒入之後其實會進入刑法偵查的過程，所以這一項在我們之前的新聞稿也有對外說明，我們其實會主動跟主辦單位瞭解，但是主辦單位目前的狀況是，它這邊的說明也是會先配合警方，相關序號現在確實警方這邊還在持續偵辦當中，我們會持續跟他們溝通怎麼樣是對消費者權益保障最好的方式。"],["葉委員元之：你們的想法是什麼？"],["吳司長宜璇：因為基本上每一個售票單位都有自己對於票務的規劃方式，我們沒有辦法強制，所以我們其實還是會繼續先做瞭解，也請他們持續以消費者權益為最大的考量去思考。至於是否要再釋出，或者是警方在偵查過後，什麼時間點可以將票還到票務單位手上，這些我們都會繼續掌握時間跟瞭解，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：那第二個問題呢？第二個問題是，錢已經匯給他卻拿不回來，這部分是不是民法的問題？"],["吳司長宜璇：這部分確實可能會是屬於私法的部分，但委員關注的這個我們會去多瞭解目前到底有哪幾個案件需要……"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！所以我們的結論就是，因為文化部不積極打黃牛才造成了這些問題嘛！希望你們以後可以積極打黃牛，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員質詢，部長請回。","再來請林宜瑾委員代主席。"],["主席（林委員宜瑾代）：接下來請范雲召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-6","speakers":["范雲","黃捷","洪孟楷","林倩綺","柯志恩","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","萬美玲","郭昱晴","張雅琳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","高金素梅","翁曉玲","吳春城"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「不義遺址保存條例草案」案；二、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「不義遺\n址保存條例草案」案；三、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「不義遺址保存條例草案」\n案；四、審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「不義遺址保存條例草案」案；五、審查委員蔡易餘等18人\n擬具「不義遺址保存條例草案」案；六、審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「不義遺址保存條例草案」\n案；七、審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「人權紀念場址保存條例草案」案","agenda_id":"1139201_00001"}}}