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00:00:45,837\n委員好部長好部長我想您看到我的投影片的標題轉肺為能步步前進SRF不該被汙名化我想我今天就用我短短的幾分鐘來跟您討論SRF的這個部分那我想再請您在備詢台上再次的說明經濟部對SRF的態度到底是什麼是肯定還是否定那它的定位是什麼可不可以解答\n\n3\n00:00:49,219 --> 00:01:00,413\n經濟部肯定還是否定?當然是一個趨勢,所以我們對SRF是這樣的一個,它是要符合環境部的需求,環境部的檢驗\n\n4\n00:01:01,923 --> 00:01:20,382\n他通過了我們當然是肯定的因為他是減碳的一部分是啊所以其實這就是一個新的技術這個新的技術可以達到的是我們在產生能源的時候是一個減碳的能源是一個多元創造能源的方式同時還可以去化廢棄物\n\n5\n00:01:21,303 --> 00:01:49,203\n所以理論上這個新技術當然是好的啊但是這個新技術當然也有它的過程過程當中如果有產生問題的我們就應該加強管理嘛這是兩個層次的問題很清楚本席在討論SRF的部分是因為上一屆我就是在未還委員會我因為新北的廢棄物問題非常非常的嚴重所以有幸在未還委員會看到了環境部能夠\n\n6\n00:01:50,524 --> 00:02:07,539\n根據國際潮流我們台灣開始引進這樣子的新技術好那可是我們很遺憾看到這段時間以來不但是地方政府對SRF的這個電廠沒有協助之餘甚至是直接跳到就是撤銷執照完全不討論中間的癥結問題甚至是部長\n\n7\n00:02:12,543 --> 00:02:32,799\n您剛剛說肯定可是我要看到你上一週喔上一週經濟部正式預告再生能源發展條例部分條文的修正草案其實也把這個SRF納入獎勵的範圍這個部分給拿掉了那兩件事情加在一起難道你剛剛說的肯定\n\n8\n00:02:35,414 --> 00:02:56,233\n是怎麼樣?事實上你態度肯定但是實際作為既沒有協助也又把這個獎勵部分拿掉難道你其實實際作為是否定嗎?他是轉換到另外一個獎勵條例去轉換?有轉換嗎?有同時轉換到了嗎?這就是我今天要跟您討論的部分不然因為我時間有限所以我想跟您確認一下在這裡\n\n9\n00:02:57,295 --> 00:03:12,912\n國內的SRF仍有爭議最大的原因其實就是這兩個嘛一個是法規未完備另外一個是規範未落實這是兩個層次嘛對不對其實法規的部分環境部我相信已經開始在討論了那我們來看一下現在的狀況第一個是現在的狀況是書面審查沒有實地會刊\n\n10\n00:03:18,058 --> 00:03:41,398\n所以不需要業者很多啊好再來第二個業者現有業者的技術設備不足所以他的垃圾沒有經過合格的分選問題是在這裡啊不是SRF的技術不好是這個技術燃燒的東西裡面你沒有把它經過合格的分選嘛然後第三你的鍋爐也沒有嚴格控管彈藥芯跟監控綠啊所以才會有空氣污染\n\n11\n00:03:43,960 --> 00:04:01,090\n這一些都是管理的問題但怎麼可以放任這樣的問題把整套的世界認可的新技術變成是說啊這個東西不好這不對嘛所以本席具體的建議啦直接是一加入實地勘查的機制及法則第二\n\n12\n00:04:01,650 --> 00:04:11,637\n我們要設立第三方單位負責SRF的品質控管及認證工作第三規範SRF的業者應該要具備空氣污染防治的設備且代澳新的標準要比照焚化爐以真正達成把廢轉能這樣的部分\n\n13\n00:04:21,643 --> 00:04:42,852\n這是我剛剛說的第一個法規制定以及要落實法規的部分不曉得今天是部長在這裡後面環境部次長也在這裡嘛那你對於這我提出的三個建議不曉得您認為態度如何跟委員報告我的態度就是把委員所指教的這部分帶回去趕快研究\n\n14\n00:04:43,592 --> 00:04:44,173\n我們在今年6月到9月已經完成了全面的體檢\n\n15\n00:05:01,956 --> 00:05:22,271\n所以會有一部新的法規來把這三項全部都納入嗎?年底會有管理辦法,正適用辦法,是,已經在公告預告當中了,那我們的那個排放標準也加嚴,檢測頻率也提升。所以SRF的管理方式要加嚴嗎?這才是第一層次的規範嗎?那是對於運作中的所有SRF廠。\n\n16\n00:05:23,812 --> 00:05:45,302\n委員您剛提到桃園那三家是未來要興建的那當然也要符合我們現在所有的標準那當然啊因為它還沒有設置起來嘛所以當然我們的法規如果跑快一點它當然要依照新法規嘛所以這是我認為第一個環境部標準應該要設立的部分但是第二個那個郭部長我還是在跟您您剛剛提到了我想藉著時間齁還是請您把剛剛這個說清楚我認為\n\n17\n00:05:48,644 --> 00:06:07,157\n即便你要把他從SRF從再生能源發展條例的獎勵辦法中拿走可是這是一個好的做法我們還是要鼓勵這個新技術來所以部長其他的獎勵辦法是什麼請您說明拿掉的部分是非綠的部分就是我們讓他走這個七天共生的獎勵\n\n18\n00:06:08,274 --> 00:06:23,773\n走氣電共生的部分所以還是有相關的鼓勵這個轉廢為能的這個部分嘛對不對是的好那最後我也是提醒一下藉這個機會提醒一下您的這個預告版本裡面第一條其實你在定義什麼是再生能源的時候\n\n19\n00:06:24,874 --> 00:06:42,731\n還是有把燃燒廢棄物的部分是放在定義裡面但是又增加了第11項這個燃燒這個SRF的這個器具又不算是電氣發展設備這兩個部分似乎看起來是有矛盾的部分啦也請那個能源局這邊可以再看一下是是謝謝委員指教好謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9738\t11506\t謝謝主席,我們請郭部長\n19949\t45837\t委員好部長好部長我想您看到我的投影片的標題轉肺為能步步前進SRF不該被汙名化我想我今天就用我短短的幾分鐘來跟您討論SRF的這個部分那我想再請您在備詢台上再次的說明經濟部對SRF的態度到底是什麼是肯定還是否定那它的定位是什麼可不可以解答\n49219\t60413\t經濟部肯定還是否定?當然是一個趨勢,所以我們對SRF是這樣的一個,它是要符合環境部的需求,環境部的檢驗\n61923\t80382\t他通過了我們當然是肯定的因為他是減碳的一部分是啊所以其實這就是一個新的技術這個新的技術可以達到的是我們在產生能源的時候是一個減碳的能源是一個多元創造能源的方式同時還可以去化廢棄物\n81303\t109203\t所以理論上這個新技術當然是好的啊但是這個新技術當然也有它的過程過程當中如果有產生問題的我們就應該加強管理嘛這是兩個層次的問題很清楚本席在討論SRF的部分是因為上一屆我就是在未還委員會我因為新北的廢棄物問題非常非常的嚴重所以有幸在未還委員會看到了環境部能夠\n110524\t127539\t根據國際潮流我們台灣開始引進這樣子的新技術好那可是我們很遺憾看到這段時間以來不但是地方政府對SRF的這個電廠沒有協助之餘甚至是直接跳到就是撤銷執照完全不討論中間的癥結問題甚至是部長\n132543\t152799\t您剛剛說肯定可是我要看到你上一週喔上一週經濟部正式預告再生能源發展條例部分條文的修正草案其實也把這個SRF納入獎勵的範圍這個部分給拿掉了那兩件事情加在一起難道你剛剛說的肯定\n155414\t176233\t是怎麼樣?事實上你態度肯定但是實際作為既沒有協助也又把這個獎勵部分拿掉難道你其實實際作為是否定嗎?他是轉換到另外一個獎勵條例去轉換?有轉換嗎?有同時轉換到了嗎?這就是我今天要跟您討論的部分不然因為我時間有限所以我想跟您確認一下在這裡\n177295\t192912\t國內的SRF仍有爭議最大的原因其實就是這兩個嘛一個是法規未完備另外一個是規範未落實這是兩個層次嘛對不對其實法規的部分環境部我相信已經開始在討論了那我們來看一下現在的狀況第一個是現在的狀況是書面審查沒有實地會刊\n198058\t221398\t所以不需要業者很多啊好再來第二個業者現有業者的技術設備不足所以他的垃圾沒有經過合格的分選問題是在這裡啊不是SRF的技術不好是這個技術燃燒的東西裡面你沒有把它經過合格的分選嘛然後第三你的鍋爐也沒有嚴格控管彈藥芯跟監控綠啊所以才會有空氣污染\n223960\t241090\t這一些都是管理的問題但怎麼可以放任這樣的問題把整套的世界認可的新技術變成是說啊這個東西不好這不對嘛所以本席具體的建議啦直接是一加入實地勘查的機制及法則第二\n241650\t251637\t我們要設立第三方單位負責SRF的品質控管及認證工作第三規範SRF的業者應該要具備空氣污染防治的設備且代澳新的標準要比照焚化爐以真正達成把廢轉能這樣的部分\n261643\t282852\t這是我剛剛說的第一個法規制定以及要落實法規的部分不曉得今天是部長在這裡後面環境部次長也在這裡嘛那你對於這我提出的三個建議不曉得您認為態度如何跟委員報告我的態度就是把委員所指教的這部分帶回去趕快研究\n283592\t284173\t我們在今年6月到9月已經完成了全面的體檢\n301956\t322271\t所以會有一部新的法規來把這三項全部都納入嗎?年底會有管理辦法,正適用辦法,是,已經在公告預告當中了,那我們的那個排放標準也加嚴,檢測頻率也提升。所以SRF的管理方式要加嚴嗎?這才是第一層次的規範嗎?那是對於運作中的所有SRF廠。\n323812\t345302\t委員您剛提到桃園那三家是未來要興建的那當然也要符合我們現在所有的標準那當然啊因為它還沒有設置起來嘛所以當然我們的法規如果跑快一點它當然要依照新法規嘛所以這是我認為第一個環境部標準應該要設立的部分但是第二個那個郭部長我還是在跟您您剛剛提到了我想藉著時間齁還是請您把剛剛這個說清楚我認為\n348644\t367157\t即便你要把他從SRF從再生能源發展條例的獎勵辦法中拿走可是這是一個好的做法我們還是要鼓勵這個新技術來所以部長其他的獎勵辦法是什麼請您說明拿掉的部分是非綠的部分就是我們讓他走這個七天共生的獎勵\n368274\t383773\t走氣電共生的部分所以還是有相關的鼓勵這個轉廢為能的這個部分嘛對不對是的好那最後我也是提醒一下藉這個機會提醒一下您的這個預告版本裡面第一條其實你在定義什麼是再生能源的時候\n384874\t402731\t還是有把燃燒廢棄物的部分是放在定義裡面但是又增加了第11項這個燃燒這個SRF的這個器具又不算是電氣發展設備這兩個部分似乎看起來是有矛盾的部分啦也請那個能源局這邊可以再看一下是是謝謝委員指教好謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們請郭部長\n委員好部長好部長我想您看到我的投影片的標題轉肺為能步步前進SRF不該被汙名化我想我今天就用我短短的幾分鐘來跟您討論SRF的這個部分那我想再請您在備詢台上再次的說明經濟部對SRF的態度到底是什麼是肯定還是否定那它的定位是什麼可不可以解答\n經濟部肯定還是否定?當然是一個趨勢,所以我們對SRF是這樣的一個,它是要符合環境部的需求,環境部的檢驗\n他通過了我們當然是肯定的因為他是減碳的一部分是啊所以其實這就是一個新的技術這個新的技術可以達到的是我們在產生能源的時候是一個減碳的能源是一個多元創造能源的方式同時還可以去化廢棄物\n所以理論上這個新技術當然是好的啊但是這個新技術當然也有它的過程過程當中如果有產生問題的我們就應該加強管理嘛這是兩個層次的問題很清楚本席在討論SRF的部分是因為上一屆我就是在未還委員會我因為新北的廢棄物問題非常非常的嚴重所以有幸在未還委員會看到了環境部能夠\n根據國際潮流我們台灣開始引進這樣子的新技術好那可是我們很遺憾看到這段時間以來不但是地方政府對SRF的這個電廠沒有協助之餘甚至是直接跳到就是撤銷執照完全不討論中間的癥結問題甚至是部長\n您剛剛說肯定可是我要看到你上一週喔上一週經濟部正式預告再生能源發展條例部分條文的修正草案其實也把這個SRF納入獎勵的範圍這個部分給拿掉了那兩件事情加在一起難道你剛剛說的肯定\n是怎麼樣?事實上你態度肯定但是實際作為既沒有協助也又把這個獎勵部分拿掉難道你其實實際作為是否定嗎?他是轉換到另外一個獎勵條例去轉換?有轉換嗎?有同時轉換到了嗎?這就是我今天要跟您討論的部分不然因為我時間有限所以我想跟您確認一下在這裡\n國內的SRF仍有爭議最大的原因其實就是這兩個嘛一個是法規未完備另外一個是規範未落實這是兩個層次嘛對不對其實法規的部分環境部我相信已經開始在討論了那我們來看一下現在的狀況第一個是現在的狀況是書面審查沒有實地會刊\n所以不需要業者很多啊好再來第二個業者現有業者的技術設備不足所以他的垃圾沒有經過合格的分選問題是在這裡啊不是SRF的技術不好是這個技術燃燒的東西裡面你沒有把它經過合格的分選嘛然後第三你的鍋爐也沒有嚴格控管彈藥芯跟監控綠啊所以才會有空氣污染\n這一些都是管理的問題但怎麼可以放任這樣的問題把整套的世界認可的新技術變成是說啊這個東西不好這不對嘛所以本席具體的建議啦直接是一加入實地勘查的機制及法則第二\n我們要設立第三方單位負責SRF的品質控管及認證工作第三規範SRF的業者應該要具備空氣污染防治的設備且代澳新的標準要比照焚化爐以真正達成把廢轉能這樣的部分\n這是我剛剛說的第一個法規制定以及要落實法規的部分不曉得今天是部長在這裡後面環境部次長也在這裡嘛那你對於這我提出的三個建議不曉得您認為態度如何跟委員報告我的態度就是把委員所指教的這部分帶回去趕快研究\n我們在今年6月到9月已經完成了全面的體檢\n所以會有一部新的法規來把這三項全部都納入嗎?年底會有管理辦法,正適用辦法,是,已經在公告預告當中了,那我們的那個排放標準也加嚴,檢測頻率也提升。所以SRF的管理方式要加嚴嗎?這才是第一層次的規範嗎?那是對於運作中的所有SRF廠。\n委員您剛提到桃園那三家是未來要興建的那當然也要符合我們現在所有的標準那當然啊因為它還沒有設置起來嘛所以當然我們的法規如果跑快一點它當然要依照新法規嘛所以這是我認為第一個環境部標準應該要設立的部分但是第二個那個郭部長我還是在跟您您剛剛提到了我想藉著時間齁還是請您把剛剛這個說清楚我認為\n即便你要把他從SRF從再生能源發展條例的獎勵辦法中拿走可是這是一個好的做法我們還是要鼓勵這個新技術來所以部長其他的獎勵辦法是什麼請您說明拿掉的部分是非綠的部分就是我們讓他走這個七天共生的獎勵\n走氣電共生的部分所以還是有相關的鼓勵這個轉廢為能的這個部分嘛對不對是的好那最後我也是提醒一下藉這個機會提醒一下您的這個預告版本裡面第一條其實你在定義什麼是再生能源的時候\n還是有把燃燒廢棄物的部分是放在定義裡面但是又增加了第11項這個燃燒這個SRF的這個器具又不算是電氣發展設備這兩個部分似乎看起來是有矛盾的部分啦也請那個能源局這邊可以再看一下是是謝謝委員指教好謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.738 --> 00:11.506\n謝謝主席,我們請郭部長\n\n00:19.949 --> 00:45.837\n委員好部長好部長我想您看到我的投影片的標題轉肺為能步步前進SRF不該被汙名化我想我今天就用我短短的幾分鐘來跟您討論SRF的這個部分那我想再請您在備詢台上再次的說明經濟部對SRF的態度到底是什麼是肯定還是否定那它的定位是什麼可不可以解答\n\n00:49.219 --> 01:00.413\n經濟部肯定還是否定?當然是一個趨勢,所以我們對SRF是這樣的一個,它是要符合環境部的需求,環境部的檢驗\n\n01:01.923 --> 01:20.382\n他通過了我們當然是肯定的因為他是減碳的一部分是啊所以其實這就是一個新的技術這個新的技術可以達到的是我們在產生能源的時候是一個減碳的能源是一個多元創造能源的方式同時還可以去化廢棄物\n\n01:21.303 --> 01:49.203\n所以理論上這個新技術當然是好的啊但是這個新技術當然也有它的過程過程當中如果有產生問題的我們就應該加強管理嘛這是兩個層次的問題很清楚本席在討論SRF的部分是因為上一屆我就是在未還委員會我因為新北的廢棄物問題非常非常的嚴重所以有幸在未還委員會看到了環境部能夠\n\n01:50.524 --> 02:07.539\n根據國際潮流我們台灣開始引進這樣子的新技術好那可是我們很遺憾看到這段時間以來不但是地方政府對SRF的這個電廠沒有協助之餘甚至是直接跳到就是撤銷執照完全不討論中間的癥結問題甚至是部長\n\n02:12.543 --> 02:32.799\n您剛剛說肯定可是我要看到你上一週喔上一週經濟部正式預告再生能源發展條例部分條文的修正草案其實也把這個SRF納入獎勵的範圍這個部分給拿掉了那兩件事情加在一起難道你剛剛說的肯定\n\n02:35.414 --> 02:56.233\n是怎麼樣?事實上你態度肯定但是實際作為既沒有協助也又把這個獎勵部分拿掉難道你其實實際作為是否定嗎?他是轉換到另外一個獎勵條例去轉換?有轉換嗎?有同時轉換到了嗎?這就是我今天要跟您討論的部分不然因為我時間有限所以我想跟您確認一下在這裡\n\n02:57.295 --> 03:12.912\n國內的SRF仍有爭議最大的原因其實就是這兩個嘛一個是法規未完備另外一個是規範未落實這是兩個層次嘛對不對其實法規的部分環境部我相信已經開始在討論了那我們來看一下現在的狀況第一個是現在的狀況是書面審查沒有實地會刊\n\n03:18.058 --> 03:41.398\n所以不需要業者很多啊好再來第二個業者現有業者的技術設備不足所以他的垃圾沒有經過合格的分選問題是在這裡啊不是SRF的技術不好是這個技術燃燒的東西裡面你沒有把它經過合格的分選嘛然後第三你的鍋爐也沒有嚴格控管彈藥芯跟監控綠啊所以才會有空氣污染\n\n03:43.960 --> 04:01.090\n這一些都是管理的問題但怎麼可以放任這樣的問題把整套的世界認可的新技術變成是說啊這個東西不好這不對嘛所以本席具體的建議啦直接是一加入實地勘查的機制及法則第二\n\n04:01.650 --> 04:11.637\n我們要設立第三方單位負責SRF的品質控管及認證工作第三規範SRF的業者應該要具備空氣污染防治的設備且代澳新的標準要比照焚化爐以真正達成把廢轉能這樣的部分\n\n04:21.643 --> 04:42.852\n這是我剛剛說的第一個法規制定以及要落實法規的部分不曉得今天是部長在這裡後面環境部次長也在這裡嘛那你對於這我提出的三個建議不曉得您認為態度如何跟委員報告我的態度就是把委員所指教的這部分帶回去趕快研究\n\n04:43.592 --> 04:44.173\n我們在今年6月到9月已經完成了全面的體檢\n\n05:01.956 --> 05:22.271\n所以會有一部新的法規來把這三項全部都納入嗎?年底會有管理辦法,正適用辦法,是,已經在公告預告當中了,那我們的那個排放標準也加嚴,檢測頻率也提升。所以SRF的管理方式要加嚴嗎?這才是第一層次的規範嗎?那是對於運作中的所有SRF廠。\n\n05:23.812 --> 05:45.302\n委員您剛提到桃園那三家是未來要興建的那當然也要符合我們現在所有的標準那當然啊因為它還沒有設置起來嘛所以當然我們的法規如果跑快一點它當然要依照新法規嘛所以這是我認為第一個環境部標準應該要設立的部分但是第二個那個郭部長我還是在跟您您剛剛提到了我想藉著時間齁還是請您把剛剛這個說清楚我認為\n\n05:48.644 --> 06:07.157\n即便你要把他從SRF從再生能源發展條例的獎勵辦法中拿走可是這是一個好的做法我們還是要鼓勵這個新技術來所以部長其他的獎勵辦法是什麼請您說明拿掉的部分是非綠的部分就是我們讓他走這個七天共生的獎勵\n\n06:08.274 --> 06:23.773\n走氣電共生的部分所以還是有相關的鼓勵這個轉廢為能的這個部分嘛對不對是的好那最後我也是提醒一下藉這個機會提醒一下您的這個預告版本裡面第一條其實你在定義什麼是再生能源的時候\n\n06:24.874 --> 06:42.731\n還是有把燃燒廢棄物的部分是放在定義裡面但是又增加了第11項這個燃燒這個SRF的這個器具又不算是電氣發展設備這兩個部分似乎看起來是有矛盾的部分啦也請那個能源局這邊可以再看一下是是謝謝委員指教好謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.738,"end":11.506,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請郭部長"},{"start":19.949,"end":45.837,"text":"委員好部長好部長我想您看到我的投影片的標題轉肺為能步步前進SRF不該被汙名化我想我今天就用我短短的幾分鐘來跟您討論SRF的這個部分那我想再請您在備詢台上再次的說明經濟部對SRF的態度到底是什麼是肯定還是否定那它的定位是什麼可不可以解答"},{"start":49.219,"end":60.413,"text":"經濟部肯定還是否定?當然是一個趨勢,所以我們對SRF是這樣的一個,它是要符合環境部的需求,環境部的檢驗"},{"start":61.923,"end":80.382,"text":"他通過了我們當然是肯定的因為他是減碳的一部分是啊所以其實這就是一個新的技術這個新的技術可以達到的是我們在產生能源的時候是一個減碳的能源是一個多元創造能源的方式同時還可以去化廢棄物"},{"start":81.303,"end":109.203,"text":"所以理論上這個新技術當然是好的啊但是這個新技術當然也有它的過程過程當中如果有產生問題的我們就應該加強管理嘛這是兩個層次的問題很清楚本席在討論SRF的部分是因為上一屆我就是在未還委員會我因為新北的廢棄物問題非常非常的嚴重所以有幸在未還委員會看到了環境部能夠"},{"start":110.524,"end":127.539,"text":"根據國際潮流我們台灣開始引進這樣子的新技術好那可是我們很遺憾看到這段時間以來不但是地方政府對SRF的這個電廠沒有協助之餘甚至是直接跳到就是撤銷執照完全不討論中間的癥結問題甚至是部長"},{"start":132.543,"end":152.799,"text":"您剛剛說肯定可是我要看到你上一週喔上一週經濟部正式預告再生能源發展條例部分條文的修正草案其實也把這個SRF納入獎勵的範圍這個部分給拿掉了那兩件事情加在一起難道你剛剛說的肯定"},{"start":155.414,"end":176.233,"text":"是怎麼樣?事實上你態度肯定但是實際作為既沒有協助也又把這個獎勵部分拿掉難道你其實實際作為是否定嗎?他是轉換到另外一個獎勵條例去轉換?有轉換嗎?有同時轉換到了嗎?這就是我今天要跟您討論的部分不然因為我時間有限所以我想跟您確認一下在這裡"},{"start":177.295,"end":192.912,"text":"國內的SRF仍有爭議最大的原因其實就是這兩個嘛一個是法規未完備另外一個是規範未落實這是兩個層次嘛對不對其實法規的部分環境部我相信已經開始在討論了那我們來看一下現在的狀況第一個是現在的狀況是書面審查沒有實地會刊"},{"start":198.058,"end":221.398,"text":"所以不需要業者很多啊好再來第二個業者現有業者的技術設備不足所以他的垃圾沒有經過合格的分選問題是在這裡啊不是SRF的技術不好是這個技術燃燒的東西裡面你沒有把它經過合格的分選嘛然後第三你的鍋爐也沒有嚴格控管彈藥芯跟監控綠啊所以才會有空氣污染"},{"start":223.96,"end":241.09,"text":"這一些都是管理的問題但怎麼可以放任這樣的問題把整套的世界認可的新技術變成是說啊這個東西不好這不對嘛所以本席具體的建議啦直接是一加入實地勘查的機制及法則第二"},{"start":241.65,"end":251.637,"text":"我們要設立第三方單位負責SRF的品質控管及認證工作第三規範SRF的業者應該要具備空氣污染防治的設備且代澳新的標準要比照焚化爐以真正達成把廢轉能這樣的部分"},{"start":261.643,"end":282.852,"text":"這是我剛剛說的第一個法規制定以及要落實法規的部分不曉得今天是部長在這裡後面環境部次長也在這裡嘛那你對於這我提出的三個建議不曉得您認為態度如何跟委員報告我的態度就是把委員所指教的這部分帶回去趕快研究"},{"start":283.592,"end":284.173,"text":"我們在今年6月到9月已經完成了全面的體檢"},{"start":301.956,"end":322.271,"text":"所以會有一部新的法規來把這三項全部都納入嗎?年底會有管理辦法,正適用辦法,是,已經在公告預告當中了,那我們的那個排放標準也加嚴,檢測頻率也提升。所以SRF的管理方式要加嚴嗎?這才是第一層次的規範嗎?那是對於運作中的所有SRF廠。"},{"start":323.812,"end":345.302,"text":"委員您剛提到桃園那三家是未來要興建的那當然也要符合我們現在所有的標準那當然啊因為它還沒有設置起來嘛所以當然我們的法規如果跑快一點它當然要依照新法規嘛所以這是我認為第一個環境部標準應該要設立的部分但是第二個那個郭部長我還是在跟您您剛剛提到了我想藉著時間齁還是請您把剛剛這個說清楚我認為"},{"start":348.644,"end":367.157,"text":"即便你要把他從SRF從再生能源發展條例的獎勵辦法中拿走可是這是一個好的做法我們還是要鼓勵這個新技術來所以部長其他的獎勵辦法是什麼請您說明拿掉的部分是非綠的部分就是我們讓他走這個七天共生的獎勵"},{"start":368.274,"end":383.773,"text":"走氣電共生的部分所以還是有相關的鼓勵這個轉廢為能的這個部分嘛對不對是的好那最後我也是提醒一下藉這個機會提醒一下您的這個預告版本裡面第一條其實你在定義什麼是再生能源的時候"},{"start":384.874,"end":402.731,"text":"還是有把燃燒廢棄物的部分是放在定義裡面但是又增加了第11項這個燃燒這個SRF的這個器具又不算是電氣發展設備這兩個部分似乎看起來是有矛盾的部分啦也請那個能源局這邊可以再看一下是是謝謝委員指教好謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":972,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（12時）謝謝主席，請郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長好。部長，我想您看到我的投影片標題了，「轉廢為能步步前進　SRF不該被汙名化」，我今天就用短短的幾分鐘跟您討論SRF這個部分。我想請您在備詢臺上再次說明經濟部對SRF的態度到底是什麼，是肯定還是否定？它的定位是什麼？可不可以簡答？"],["郭部長智輝：我們當……"],["蘇委員巧慧：是肯定還是否定？"],["郭部長智輝：它是趨勢啦！所以我們對SRF的態度是這樣，它只要符合環境部的需求、環境部的檢驗、通過了，我們當然是肯定的，主要因為它是減碳的一部分。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是啊！所以其實這就是一個新的技術，這個新技術可以達到的是產生的能源為減碳的能源、是一個多元創造能源的方式，同時還可以去化廢棄物，所以理論上這個新技術當然是好的啊！但是，這個新技術當然也有它的過程，過程當中如果產生問題，我們就應該加強管理嘛！這是兩個層次的問題，很清楚。本席討論SRF，是因為上一屆我就在衛環委員會，我因為新北的廢棄物問題非常、非常地嚴重，所以有幸在衛環委員會看到環境部能夠根據國際潮流，讓臺灣開始引進這樣的新技術。","可是，我們很遺憾地看到，這段時間以來地方政府對SRF電廠不但沒有協助，甚至直接跳到撤銷執照，完全不討論中間的癥結問題，部長，甚至您剛剛說肯定，可是我看到經濟部在上一周正式預告的再生能源發展條例部分條文修正草案，其實也把SRF納入獎勵範圍這部分給拿掉了。兩件事情加在一起，你剛剛說的肯定是怎麼樣肯定？事實上，你態度肯定，但實際作為上既沒有協助，又把草案的獎勵部分拿掉，難道你實際作為其實是否定嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：它是轉換到另一個獎勵條例去了。"],["蘇委員巧慧：轉換？有轉換嗎？有同時轉換到嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我是不是跟……"],["蘇委員巧慧：這就是我今天要跟您討論的部分。部長，因為我時間有限，所以我想在這裡跟您確認一下，國內SRF仍有爭議的最大原因其實就是這兩個嘛！一個是法規未完備，另外一個是規範未落實，這是兩個層次，對不對？在法規部分，我相信環境部已經開始討論了，那我們來看一下現在的狀況。第一，現在的狀況是書面審查，沒有實地會勘，所以不肖業者很多啊！再來是第二個，現有業者的技術、設備不足，所以垃圾沒有經過合格的分選，問題是在這裡啊！不是SRF的技術不好，而是這個技術燃燒的東西沒有經過合格的分選嘛！第三，鍋爐也沒有嚴格控管戴奧辛跟監控氯啊！所以才會有空氣污染。這些都是管理問題，但怎麼可以放任這樣的問題把整套世界認可的新技術變成「這個東西不好」？這樣不對嘛！","所以本席具體建議，第一，加入實地勘查的機制及罰則；第二，要設立第三方單位負責SRF的品質控管及認證工作；第三，規範SRF的業者應該具備空氣汙染防制設備，且戴奧辛的標準要比照焚化爐，以真正達成把廢轉能這樣的目標。這是我剛剛說的第一個法規制定以及要落實法規的部分。今天部長在這裡，環境部次長也在這裡，對於我提出的三個建議，不曉得您認為如何、態度如何？"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，我的態度就是把委員所指教的這部分帶回去……"],["蘇委員巧慧：這三個都應該列入！"],["郭部長智輝：趕快研究……"],["蘇委員巧慧：對啊！"],["郭部長智輝：然後跟環境部充分地討論，朝這個方向努力。"],["蘇委員巧慧：其實這個部分應該找環境部啦！次長，我覺得這三項是非常實際的，應該直接成為法規，其實就解套了一大半啊！"],["沈次長志修：是，我們在今年6月到9月已經完成了全面體檢，剛剛委員所講的這些問題都是我們在體檢範圍……"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以會有一部新的法規把這三項全部都納進去嗎？"],["沈次長志修：年底會有管理辦法，正式適用辦法。"],["蘇委員巧慧：年底？現在已經10月30日囉！"],["沈次長志修：是，已經在公告預告當中了，排放標準加嚴，檢測頻率也提升。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以SRF的管理方式要加嚴，這才是第一層次的部分嘛！"],["沈次長志修：是，跟委員報告，那是對於所有運作中的SRF廠，而委員剛剛提到桃園那三家是未來要興建的，當然也要符合現在所有的標準。"],["蘇委員巧慧：那當然啊！因為它還沒有設置起來，法規如果跑快一點，它當然要依照新法規嘛！這是第一個部分，我認為環境部應該設立標準。","第二個，郭部長，我還是要再跟您討論，您剛剛提到了，我想藉這個時間還是請您把剛剛的話說清楚，我認為即便你要把SRF從再生能源發展條例的獎勵辦法中拿走，但這是一個好的做法，我們還是要鼓勵這個新技術，部長，所以其他獎勵辦法是什麼？請您說明。"],["郭部長智輝：拿掉的是非氯的部分，也就是走汽電共生的獎勵。"],["蘇委員巧慧：走汽電共生，所以還是有鼓勵轉廢為能的相關部分，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好。","最後，我也藉這個機會提醒一下，在您的預告版本裡面，其實第一條在定義什麼是再生能源的時候還是把燃燒廢棄物的部分放在定義裡面，但是又增加了第十一項燃燒SRF的器具又不算是電氣發展設備，這兩部分看起來似乎有矛盾啦！也請能源局這邊再看一下。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員指教。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席（鄭委員天財代）：接下來請鍾佳濱委員。鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在場。","接下來請呂玉玲召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-9","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","黃健豪","邱志偉","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","蘇巧慧","黃國昌","羅智強","蔡易餘","王育敏","徐欣瑩","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","羅廷瑋","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃珊珊","張嘉郡","陳超明"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139102_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、環境部首長就「我國\n對設置 SRF 發電廠之規劃評估，及設置 SRF 發電廠對我國環境之影響」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139102_00004"}}}