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00:01:16,846\n委員我是不是可以請臺電董事長跟您報告?所以我先請部長說你覺得我們只花4億要覺得很驕傲的意思嗎?我沒有看到這整個...他說他今年只需要花4億置船費去年花了...前三年花了30億所以我們今年只要花4億部長我的意思是我們連4塊錢都不應該花\n\n3\n00:01:19,175 --> 00:01:34,586\n我同意我也尊重委員的這樣的看法也就是說我們還是希望臺電把國家的錢當成錢是的把國家的錢不要當成他們可以自己浪費的東西來董事長你要不要說一下\n\n4\n00:01:38,046 --> 00:01:50,903\n好委員第一個事情我們要減少自傳費的發生這點事情是確定的這是一個我覺得不可以發生的事情那它發生了那面對但是不要變成好像這是應該的\n\n5\n00:01:51,752 --> 00:02:18,522\n那個委員我有說明一下因為自然會發生有的時候真的是比方說燃煤如果被要求降減煤的時候我們因為傳播的調度或者是用電量減少像去年2023年我理解但是不可以一年花20億啊是所以我們現在要下降這個叫做太離譜了要減低這個事情發生不過我也跟委員報告我們其實是有在提高它整個備用的備用的量所以才會往上這是審計部說的不是我黃珊珊說的是\n\n6\n00:02:19,622 --> 00:02:41,179\n你們不要去打臉審計部然後想要自己說明如果今年劃到4億還是不應該啊這個我回去深刻檢討我非常贊同這個委員的指教那接下來就是部長我想再討論一下有關基隆協和電廠的事協和電廠在我們的官網一直都說今年底要除役\n\n7\n00:02:42,974 --> 00:03:09,652\n臺電也說要轉緊急備用電力我現在要跟你確定他是不是確定廚藝只轉緊急備用我這個部分我的瞭解是不是轉緊急備用會看狀況來所以還不確定還不確定還不確定那如果轉緊急備用在環境部我上禮拜諮詢的時候環境部的就說如果轉緊急備用的話環境部就可以限制他運轉的時間時數\n\n8\n00:03:13,148 --> 00:03:13,448\n我請董事長\n\n9\n00:03:31,889 --> 00:04:01,269\n好,各位委員報告就是我們第一個是協和電廠會依照環保法規在運轉第二個是720小時我們會把它適度的運用在會盡量購用不要再告訴大家說我其實沒有廚藝偷偷的繼續用好嗎部長我今天要講的就是說我不是沒有廚藝偷偷的用我就是一定會照著規範在做沒錯好我現在要說的是協和電廠它是一個燃油電廠它的燃油成本一度將近是7塊半\n\n10\n00:04:02,069 --> 00:04:02,329\n黃珊珊\n\n11\n00:04:24,964 --> 00:04:45,314\n去做這個緊急預轉要賠多少錢?我們應該趕快把它轉成燃氣的電廠燃氣要7年了部長這7年裡面沒有東西啊這7年裡面如果繼續做備載的話如果這個市接同意讓我接它應該是同時可以進行沒有那麼快至少要7年\n\n12\n00:04:46,348 --> 00:04:46,468\n謝謝部長謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n43\t27910\t響鐘響鐘響鐘\n28607\t57492\t所謂的製船費三年三十億那三年三十億他們是說因為臺中的煤倉沒有完工的原因那臺中煤倉沒有完工的原因那麼看到之前花了一百四十億蓋了八年這八年接下來昨天的臺電的新聞稿看得我不知道要笑還是要哭他說這樣的話我們今年只需要花四億是嗎也就是說四億很驕傲的意思嗎\n58737\t76846\t委員我是不是可以請臺電董事長跟您報告?所以我先請部長說你覺得我們只花4億要覺得很驕傲的意思嗎?我沒有看到這整個...他說他今年只需要花4億置船費去年花了...前三年花了30億所以我們今年只要花4億部長我的意思是我們連4塊錢都不應該花\n79175\t94586\t我同意 我也尊重委員的這樣的看法也就是說我們還是希望臺電把國家的錢當成錢是的把國家的錢不要當成他們可以自己浪費的東西來 董事長你要不要說一下\n98046\t110903\t好委員第一個事情我們要減少自傳費的發生這點事情是確定的這是一個我覺得不可以發生的事情那它發生了那面對但是不要變成好像這是應該的\n111752\t138522\t那個委員我有說明一下因為自然會發生有的時候真的是比方說燃煤如果被要求降減煤的時候我們因為傳播的調度或者是用電量減少像去年2023年我理解但是不可以一年花20億啊是所以我們現在要下降這個叫做太離譜了要減低這個事情發生不過我也跟委員報告我們其實是有在提高它整個備用的備用的量所以才會往上這是審計部說的不是我黃珊珊說的是\n139622\t161179\t你們不要去打臉審計部然後想要自己說明如果今年劃到4億還是不應該啊這個我回去深刻檢討我非常贊同這個委員的指教那接下來就是部長我想再討論一下有關基隆協和電廠的事協和電廠在我們的官網一直都說今年底要除役\n162974\t189652\t臺電也說要轉緊急備用電力我現在要跟你確定他是不是確定廚藝只轉緊急備用我這個部分我的瞭解是不是轉緊急備用會看狀況來所以還不確定還不確定還不確定那如果轉緊急備用在環境部我上禮拜諮詢的時候環境部的就說如果轉緊急備用的話環境部就可以限制他運轉的時間時數\n193148\t193448\t我請董事長\n211889\t241269\t好,各位委員報告就是我們第一個是協和電廠會依照環保法規在運轉第二個是720小時我們會把它適度的運用在會盡量購用不要再告訴大家說我其實沒有廚藝偷偷的繼續用好嗎部長我今天要講的就是說我不是沒有廚藝偷偷的用我就是一定會照著規範在做沒錯好我現在要說的是協和電廠它是一個燃油電廠它的燃油成本一度將近是7塊半\n242069\t242329\t黃珊珊\n264964\t285314\t去做這個緊急預轉要賠多少錢?我們應該趕快把它轉成燃氣的電廠燃氣要7年了部長這7年裡面沒有東西啊這7年裡面如果繼續做備載的話如果這個市接同意讓我接它應該是同時可以進行沒有那麼快至少要7年\n286348\t286468\t謝謝部長謝謝委員\n","txt":"響鐘響鐘響鐘\n所謂的製船費三年三十億那三年三十億他們是說因為臺中的煤倉沒有完工的原因那臺中煤倉沒有完工的原因那麼看到之前花了一百四十億蓋了八年這八年接下來昨天的臺電的新聞稿看得我不知道要笑還是要哭他說這樣的話我們今年只需要花四億是嗎也就是說四億很驕傲的意思嗎\n委員我是不是可以請臺電董事長跟您報告?所以我先請部長說你覺得我們只花4億要覺得很驕傲的意思嗎?我沒有看到這整個...他說他今年只需要花4億置船費去年花了...前三年花了30億所以我們今年只要花4億部長我的意思是我們連4塊錢都不應該花\n我同意 我也尊重委員的這樣的看法也就是說我們還是希望臺電把國家的錢當成錢是的把國家的錢不要當成他們可以自己浪費的東西來 董事長你要不要說一下\n好委員第一個事情我們要減少自傳費的發生這點事情是確定的這是一個我覺得不可以發生的事情那它發生了那面對但是不要變成好像這是應該的\n那個委員我有說明一下因為自然會發生有的時候真的是比方說燃煤如果被要求降減煤的時候我們因為傳播的調度或者是用電量減少像去年2023年我理解但是不可以一年花20億啊是所以我們現在要下降這個叫做太離譜了要減低這個事情發生不過我也跟委員報告我們其實是有在提高它整個備用的備用的量所以才會往上這是審計部說的不是我黃珊珊說的是\n你們不要去打臉審計部然後想要自己說明如果今年劃到4億還是不應該啊這個我回去深刻檢討我非常贊同這個委員的指教那接下來就是部長我想再討論一下有關基隆協和電廠的事協和電廠在我們的官網一直都說今年底要除役\n臺電也說要轉緊急備用電力我現在要跟你確定他是不是確定廚藝只轉緊急備用我這個部分我的瞭解是不是轉緊急備用會看狀況來所以還不確定還不確定還不確定那如果轉緊急備用在環境部我上禮拜諮詢的時候環境部的就說如果轉緊急備用的話環境部就可以限制他運轉的時間時數\n我請董事長\n好,各位委員報告就是我們第一個是協和電廠會依照環保法規在運轉第二個是720小時我們會把它適度的運用在會盡量購用不要再告訴大家說我其實沒有廚藝偷偷的繼續用好嗎部長我今天要講的就是說我不是沒有廚藝偷偷的用我就是一定會照著規範在做沒錯好我現在要說的是協和電廠它是一個燃油電廠它的燃油成本一度將近是7塊半\n黃珊珊\n去做這個緊急預轉要賠多少錢?我們應該趕快把它轉成燃氣的電廠燃氣要7年了部長這7年裡面沒有東西啊這7年裡面如果繼續做備載的話如果這個市接同意讓我接它應該是同時可以進行沒有那麼快至少要7年\n謝謝部長謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:28.607 --> 00:57.492\n所謂的製船費三年三十億那三年三十億他們是說因為臺中的煤倉沒有完工的原因那臺中煤倉沒有完工的原因那麼看到之前花了一百四十億蓋了八年這八年接下來昨天的臺電的新聞稿看得我不知道要笑還是要哭他說這樣的話我們今年只需要花四億是嗎也就是說四億很驕傲的意思嗎\n\n00:58.737 --> 01:16.846\n委員我是不是可以請臺電董事長跟您報告?所以我先請部長說你覺得我們只花4億要覺得很驕傲的意思嗎?我沒有看到這整個...他說他今年只需要花4億置船費去年花了...前三年花了30億所以我們今年只要花4億部長我的意思是我們連4塊錢都不應該花\n\n01:19.175 --> 01:34.586\n我同意我也尊重委員的這樣的看法也就是說我們還是希望臺電把國家的錢當成錢是的把國家的錢不要當成他們可以自己浪費的東西來董事長你要不要說一下\n\n01:38.046 --> 01:50.903\n好委員第一個事情我們要減少自傳費的發生這點事情是確定的這是一個我覺得不可以發生的事情那它發生了那面對但是不要變成好像這是應該的\n\n01:51.752 --> 02:18.522\n那個委員我有說明一下因為自然會發生有的時候真的是比方說燃煤如果被要求降減煤的時候我們因為傳播的調度或者是用電量減少像去年2023年我理解但是不可以一年花20億啊是所以我們現在要下降這個叫做太離譜了要減低這個事情發生不過我也跟委員報告我們其實是有在提高它整個備用的備用的量所以才會往上這是審計部說的不是我黃珊珊說的是\n\n02:19.622 --> 02:41.179\n你們不要去打臉審計部然後想要自己說明如果今年劃到4億還是不應該啊這個我回去深刻檢討我非常贊同這個委員的指教那接下來就是部長我想再討論一下有關基隆協和電廠的事協和電廠在我們的官網一直都說今年底要除役\n\n02:42.974 --> 03:09.652\n臺電也說要轉緊急備用電力我現在要跟你確定他是不是確定廚藝只轉緊急備用我這個部分我的瞭解是不是轉緊急備用會看狀況來所以還不確定還不確定還不確定那如果轉緊急備用在環境部我上禮拜諮詢的時候環境部的就說如果轉緊急備用的話環境部就可以限制他運轉的時間時數\n\n03:13.148 --> 03:13.448\n我請董事長\n\n03:31.889 --> 04:01.269\n好,各位委員報告就是我們第一個是協和電廠會依照環保法規在運轉第二個是720小時我們會把它適度的運用在會盡量購用不要再告訴大家說我其實沒有廚藝偷偷的繼續用好嗎部長我今天要講的就是說我不是沒有廚藝偷偷的用我就是一定會照著規範在做沒錯好我現在要說的是協和電廠它是一個燃油電廠它的燃油成本一度將近是7塊半\n\n04:02.069 --> 04:02.329\n黃珊珊\n\n04:24.964 --> 04:45.314\n去做這個緊急預轉要賠多少錢?我們應該趕快把它轉成燃氣的電廠燃氣要7年了部長這7年裡面沒有東西啊這7年裡面如果繼續做備載的話如果這個市接同意讓我接它應該是同時可以進行沒有那麼快至少要7年\n\n04:46.348 --> 04:46.468\n謝謝部長謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.043,"end":27.91,"text":"響鐘響鐘響鐘"},{"start":28.607,"end":57.492,"text":"所謂的製船費三年三十億那三年三十億他們是說因為臺中的煤倉沒有完工的原因那臺中煤倉沒有完工的原因那麼看到之前花了一百四十億蓋了八年這八年接下來昨天的臺電的新聞稿看得我不知道要笑還是要哭他說這樣的話我們今年只需要花四億是嗎也就是說四億很驕傲的意思嗎"},{"start":58.737,"end":76.846,"text":"委員我是不是可以請臺電董事長跟您報告?所以我先請部長說你覺得我們只花4億要覺得很驕傲的意思嗎?我沒有看到這整個...他說他今年只需要花4億置船費去年花了...前三年花了30億所以我們今年只要花4億部長我的意思是我們連4塊錢都不應該花"},{"start":79.175,"end":94.586,"text":"我同意 我也尊重委員的這樣的看法也就是說我們還是希望臺電把國家的錢當成錢是的把國家的錢不要當成他們可以自己浪費的東西來 董事長你要不要說一下"},{"start":98.046,"end":110.903,"text":"好委員第一個事情我們要減少自傳費的發生這點事情是確定的這是一個我覺得不可以發生的事情那它發生了那面對但是不要變成好像這是應該的"},{"start":111.752,"end":138.522,"text":"那個委員我有說明一下因為自然會發生有的時候真的是比方說燃煤如果被要求降減煤的時候我們因為傳播的調度或者是用電量減少像去年2023年我理解但是不可以一年花20億啊是所以我們現在要下降這個叫做太離譜了要減低這個事情發生不過我也跟委員報告我們其實是有在提高它整個備用的備用的量所以才會往上這是審計部說的不是我黃珊珊說的是"},{"start":139.622,"end":161.179,"text":"你們不要去打臉審計部然後想要自己說明如果今年劃到4億還是不應該啊這個我回去深刻檢討我非常贊同這個委員的指教那接下來就是部長我想再討論一下有關基隆協和電廠的事協和電廠在我們的官網一直都說今年底要除役"},{"start":162.974,"end":189.652,"text":"臺電也說要轉緊急備用電力我現在要跟你確定他是不是確定廚藝只轉緊急備用我這個部分我的瞭解是不是轉緊急備用會看狀況來所以還不確定還不確定還不確定那如果轉緊急備用在環境部我上禮拜諮詢的時候環境部的就說如果轉緊急備用的話環境部就可以限制他運轉的時間時數"},{"start":193.148,"end":193.448,"text":"我請董事長"},{"start":211.889,"end":241.269,"text":"好,各位委員報告就是我們第一個是協和電廠會依照環保法規在運轉第二個是720小時我們會把它適度的運用在會盡量購用不要再告訴大家說我其實沒有廚藝偷偷的繼續用好嗎部長我今天要講的就是說我不是沒有廚藝偷偷的用我就是一定會照著規範在做沒錯好我現在要說的是協和電廠它是一個燃油電廠它的燃油成本一度將近是7塊半"},{"start":242.069,"end":242.329,"text":"黃珊珊"},{"start":264.964,"end":285.314,"text":"去做這個緊急預轉要賠多少錢?我們應該趕快把它轉成燃氣的電廠燃氣要7年了部長這7年裡面沒有東西啊這7年裡面如果繼續做備載的話如果這個市接同意讓我接它應該是同時可以進行沒有那麼快至少要7年"},{"start":286.348,"end":286.468,"text":"謝謝部長謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1547,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（13時50分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長好，昨天我們剛好在專報的時候討論過這個題目，我看到昨天台電有回了一個新聞稿，所謂的滯船費3年30億元，他們的說法是因為臺中的煤倉沒有完工的原因，那臺中煤倉沒有完工的原因，我們知道之前花了140億元蓋了8年，接下來昨天的台電新聞稿看得我不知道要笑還是要哭，他們說這樣的話今年只需要花4億元，是嗎？也就是說，4億是很驕傲的意思嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：委員，我是不是可以請台電董事長說明？"],["黃委員珊珊：我先請教部長，你覺得我們只花4億是要覺得很驕傲的意思嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有看到這整個內容。"],["黃委員珊珊：他說今年只需要花4億元滯船費，前3年花了30億元，所以今年只要花4億元。部長，我的意思是我們連4塊錢都不應該花！"],["郭部長智輝：我同意，我也尊重委員這樣的看法。"],["黃委員珊珊：也就是我們還是希望台電把國家的錢當成錢。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["黃委員珊珊：不要把國家的錢當成他們可以恣意浪費的東西。","董事長要不要說一下？"],["曾董事長文生：委員，第一個是我們要減少滯船費的發生，這件事情是確定的。"],["黃委員珊珊：這是我覺得不可以發生的事情，既然它發生了，就要面對，但是不要變成好像這是應該的。"],["曾董事長文生：委員，我要說明一下，對於滯船費發生，有的時候真的是……比方說燃煤如果被要求降、減煤的時候，我們因為船舶的調度或者是用電量減少，像去年2023年……"],["黃委員珊珊：我理解，但是不可以一年花20億啊！"],["曾董事長文生：是，所以我們現在要下降，要減低這個事情發生。"],["黃委員珊珊：這個叫做太離譜了。"],["曾董事長文生：不過我也跟委員報告，我們其實是有在提高它整個備用的量。"],["黃委員珊珊：要虛心地檢討，這是審計部說的，不是我黃珊珊說的。"],["曾董事長文生：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：你們不要去打臉審計部，然後想要自己說明，如果今年花到4億，還是不應該。"],["郭部長智輝：這個我回去深刻檢討，我非常贊同委員的指教。"],["黃委員珊珊：接下來再請教部長有關基隆協和電廠的事。協和電廠在官網上一直都說今年底要除役，台電也說要轉緊急備用電力，我現在要跟你確定，它是不是確定除役，只轉緊急備用？"],["郭部長智輝：這個部分我的瞭解是……"],["黃委員珊珊：是不是轉緊急備用？"],["郭部長智輝：會看狀況來……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以還不確定？"],["郭部長智輝：還不確定。"],["黃委員珊珊：那如果轉緊急備用，我上禮拜質詢環境部的時候，環境部是說如果轉緊急備用的話，環境部就可以限制它運轉的時數，所以接下來如果轉成緊急備用，我們夠不夠用？它如果要緊急備用的話，它能不能夠符合現在台電供電的需求？"],["郭部長智輝：我請董事長跟你報告一下。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，請董事長。"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，第一，協和電廠會依照環保法規運轉；第二，720小時我們會把它適度地運用在夏季尖峰的時候。"],["黃委員珊珊：要儘量夠用，不要再告訴大家其實沒有除役，而偷偷地繼續用，好嗎？部長，我今天要講的就是……"],["曾董事長文生：不是沒有除役偷偷地用，我們就是一定會照著規範在做。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯。我現在要說的是，協和電廠是一個燃油電廠，它的燃油成本1度將近7.5元，我們收電費才收3元，所以協和電廠發1度電就賠4.5元，如果它要做緊急備用，我沒有意見，那是為了國家的整體需要，但是接下去假設環評通過，協和電廠接下去的四接完成，新建大概要7年的時間，我現在只是要問，我們打算這7年裡面花多少錢去做緊急運轉？如果要賠，要賠多少錢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們應該趕快把它轉成燃氣的電廠。"],["黃委員珊珊：燃氣要7年喔，部長，這7年裡面沒有東西啊，這7年裡面，如果繼續做備載的話……"],["郭部長智輝：如果四接同意讓我接，它應該是同時可以進行。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒有那麼快，至少要7年，至少要7年。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：這7年，部長可以去算一算，打打算盤算算這7年協和電廠用7.5元的發電成本，我們要賠多少、賠多久？我希望你能夠進一步去瞭解。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個部分就是我昨天說的，基隆有很多的地熱資源，希望部長能夠把這個納入你們接下來去探勘的對象，好嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：好的，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝部長。"],["主席：登記發言的委員除不在場外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。張嘉郡委員、陳超明委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於1週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-9","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","黃健豪","邱志偉","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","蘇巧慧","黃國昌","羅智強","蔡易餘","王育敏","徐欣瑩","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","羅廷瑋","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃珊珊","張嘉郡","陳超明"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139102_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、環境部首長就「我國\n對設置 SRF 發電廠之規劃評估，及設置 SRF 發電廠對我國環境之影響」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139102_00004"}}}