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536.364, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 536.364, \"end\": 536.445, \"score\": 0.507}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 536.445, \"end\": 536.465, \"score\": 0.02}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 536.465, \"end\": 536.625, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 536.625, \"end\": 536.825, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 536.825, \"end\": 537.425, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 537.425, \"end\": 537.886, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 537.886, \"end\": 538.086, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 538.086, \"end\": 538.246, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 538.246, \"end\": 538.406, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 538.406, \"end\": 538.907, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 538.907, \"end\": 539.467, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 539.467, \"end\": 539.667, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 539.667, \"end\": 539.867, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 539.867, \"end\": 540.228, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 540.228, \"end\": 540.428, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 540.428, \"end\": 540.668, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 540.668, \"end\": 541.269, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 541.269, \"end\": 541.449, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 541.449, \"end\": 541.669, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 541.669, \"end\": 541.869, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 541.869, \"end\": 541.969, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 541.969, \"end\": 542.109, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"裁\", \"start\": 542.109, \"end\": 542.31, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 542.31, \"end\": 542.49, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 542.49, \"end\": 542.51, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 542.91, \"end\": 543.03, \"score\": 0.542}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 543.03, \"end\": 543.05, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 543.05, \"end\": 543.15, \"score\": 0.58}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 543.15, \"end\": 543.19, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 543.19, \"end\": 543.39, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 543.39, \"end\": 543.53, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 543.53, \"end\": 543.63, \"score\": 0.591}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 543.63, \"end\": 543.65, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 543.65, \"end\": 543.67, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 574.198, \"end\": 574.319, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 574.319, \"end\": 574.339, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"志\", \"start\": 574.339, \"end\": 574.439, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"倫\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 574.439, \"end\": 574.459, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,083 --> 00:00:02,191\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n\n2\n00:00:09,987 --> 00:00:19,414\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n3\n00:00:38,029 --> 00:00:46,912\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。\n\n4\n00:01:07,978 --> 00:01:16,027\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n5\n00:01:27,260 --> 00:01:50,355\n所以您的態度很清楚代表選務全國的選務機關人員認為這個公投跟大選是應該要分開的說實在的我們今天其實這屆的立法院真的是很常要上這個歷史課啊要回憶一下我們所有修法的這個前因後果所以我們來看一下嘛我們公投法制定我們再看一個法律你要修正你一定要符合它的本質\n\n6\n00:01:51,095 --> 00:01:54,499\n意義、實際作為可不可行。我們就先來看公投、公民投票制度的意義與主體。說實在,各位,我們又要從這個法理學開始來上前了。公民投票這個制度的設計意義是什麼?就是在民主國原則,也就是國民主權主權在民的原則之下,\n\n7\n00:02:12,779 --> 00:02:39,769\n我們當然有了間接民主就是我們在選舉的時候我們選出了代議士讓這些代議士民意代表到一個國會也好地方議會也好替大家來做立法和重大決策這是間接民主但是基於主權在民國民主權的原則所以我們保留了直接民主讓人民還是可以對事對事情來做一個直接的表態\n\n8\n00:02:40,549 --> 00:02:52,999\n所以一個是對人的選舉一個是對事的公投間接民主和直接民主這是民主社會裡面在民主國原則下面的兩大原則它就是拆開的狀況啊這個主委講到這裡我們都看下去這沒問題吧\n\n9\n00:02:57,702 --> 00:03:05,525\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。九、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n\n10\n00:03:26,650 --> 00:03:36,272\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等\n\n11\n00:03:54,255 --> 00:04:00,159\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n\n12\n00:04:18,052 --> 00:04:18,513\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n\n13\n00:04:38,132 --> 00:04:51,042\n就今天民眾黨提出的公投法修正案我們主席才是願意再召開兩場的公聽會這兩場的公聽會我認為非常的重要因為它就是再次喚醒大家的記憶我們已經討論多年的公投法公投公投對市的公投到底要和對選人的選舉要怎麼處理這件事情\n\n14\n00:05:06,855 --> 00:05:28,106\n我們已經討論過很多年而且已經做過決定過了而且也實行過了綁在一起的時候就是亂了分開的時候就是可行的不管你對結果滿不滿意但實務的進行上面就是應該要清楚明白主委我現在講到這裡應該跟你剛剛的方向是完全一樣符合你這個選務機關的心聲沒錯吧\n\n15\n00:05:30,347 --> 00:05:36,430\n我想這也符合全體公民的一個希望期待希望選務是能夠順利所以你要怎麼對事情表達意見這是提案人這樣子的意見但是對選務來講我們要清楚明白更何況我提前還發現了一個做出了一個調查來講的話是從\n\n16\n00:05:52,338 --> 00:06:04,822\n2018我們修正完把鳥籠公投打開了以後我們看看到底有多少提案人我們來看這個提案人到底都是一些誰主委你剛剛有看到前面一頁前面一頁你看我們從2018打破鳥籠公投以後到2020這樣的這幾個案子裡面李賢仁是誰李賢仁竟然有三分之一十四案裡面有五案\n\n17\n00:06:18,425 --> 00:06:44,363\n超過三分之一都是立法委員立法委員你不是就是在立法院剛剛我們在說的間接民主當中你就是應該在立法院裡面做提案修正法律或提案的人嗎你怎麼會又跑到外面去做一個直接民主的領銜人我覺得這有一點大家也可以討論看看也許公聽會上面也可以做一個討論\n\n18\n00:06:45,484 --> 00:06:46,225\n三十條條文修正草案。三十條條文修正草案\n\n19\n00:07:01,068 --> 00:07:05,193\n提案有關重大決策應由總統或權責機關於三個月內提出為實踐該公民投票內容之必要處置。\n\n20\n00:07:19,770 --> 00:07:21,631\n內容之行政處分法規定或行政規則或執行法律細節或補充性規定應即停止。\n\n21\n00:07:35,996 --> 00:08:00,957\n什麼是違反怎麼個違反法公民投票公投這個其實常常都是方向啊那方向決定了之後有太多的執行的狀況是屬於行政應該要作業的狀況啊一層一層的行政機關有太多的方法可以去決定去執行公投的方向啊那難道你每一個執行的方法\n\n22\n00:08:01,497 --> 00:08:06,919\n都要再拿出來在公民投票一次嗎?在公民投票說這個行政機關用A方法不合適違反了這個我們剛剛公民投票案的內容決議然後我們要再投票一次嗎?這個太奇怪了嘛所以第一這就是所謂的不確定性法律概念又存在在這裡了\n\n23\n00:08:23,103 --> 00:08:26,765\n第二、如果沒有停止執行者,權責機關之首長應立即提出辭職。\n\n24\n00:08:39,770 --> 00:09:02,510\n和立法權侵犯行政權。」各位,歷史課又來了,有沒有覺得這個場景似曾相似?不明確的法律概念加立法權侵犯行政權,啊不就是從2月開始的國會擴權法案,就是在講這種事情嗎?所以等於是我們從2月開始一直到現在,甚至是大法官都已經剛剛做出了裁判了,\n\n25\n00:09:02,910 --> 00:09:03,670\n第三十條條文修正草案案。\n\n26\n00:09:34,198 --> 00:09:34,459\n接下來請張志倫委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n83\t2191\t第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n9987\t19414\t三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n38029\t46912\t第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。\n67978\t76027\t三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n87260\t110355\t所以您的態度很清楚代表選務全國的選務機關人員認為這個公投跟大選是應該要分開的說實在的我們今天其實這屆的立法院真的是很常要上這個歷史課啊要回憶一下我們所有修法的這個前因後果所以我們來看一下嘛我們公投法制定我們再看一個法律你要修正你一定要符合它的本質\n111095\t114499\t意義、實際作為可不可行。我們就先來看公投、公民投票制度的意義與主體。說實在,各位,我們又要從這個法理學開始來上前了。公民投票這個制度的設計意義是什麼?就是在民主國原則,也就是國民主權主權在民的原則之下,\n132779\t159769\t我們當然有了間接民主就是我們在選舉的時候我們選出了代議士讓這些代議士民意代表到一個國會也好地方議會也好替大家來做立法和重大決策這是間接民主但是基於主權在民國民主權的原則所以我們保留了直接民主讓人民還是可以對事對事情來做一個直接的表態\n160549\t172999\t所以一個是對人的選舉一個是對事的公投間接民主和直接民主這是民主社會裡面在民主國原則下面的兩大原則它就是拆開的狀況啊這個主委講到這裡我們都看下去這沒問題吧\n177702\t185525\t第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。九、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n206650\t216272\t第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等\n234255\t240159\t第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n258052\t258513\t三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n278132\t291042\t就今天民眾黨提出的公投法修正案我們主席才是願意再召開兩場的公聽會這兩場的公聽會我認為非常的重要因為它就是再次喚醒大家的記憶我們已經討論多年的公投法公投公投對市的公投到底要和對選人的選舉要怎麼處理這件事情\n306855\t328106\t我們已經討論過很多年而且已經做過決定過了而且也實行過了綁在一起的時候就是亂了分開的時候就是可行的不管你對結果滿不滿意但實務的進行上面就是應該要清楚明白主委我現在講到這裡應該跟你剛剛的方向是完全一樣符合你這個選務機關的心聲沒錯吧\n330347\t336430\t我想這也符合全體公民的一個希望期待希望選務是能夠順利所以你要怎麼對事情表達意見這是提案人這樣子的意見但是對選務來講我們要清楚明白更何況我提前還發現了一個做出了一個調查來講的話是從\n352338\t364822\t2018我們修正完把鳥籠公投打開了以後我們看看到底有多少提案人我們來看這個提案人到底都是一些誰主委你剛剛有看到前面一頁前面一頁你看我們從2018打破鳥籠公投以後到2020這樣的這幾個案子裡面李賢仁是誰李賢仁竟然有三分之一十四案裡面有五案\n378425\t404363\t超過三分之一都是立法委員立法委員你不是就是在立法院剛剛我們在說的間接民主當中你就是應該在立法院裡面做提案修正法律或提案的人嗎你怎麼會又跑到外面去做一個直接民主的領銜人我覺得這有一點大家也可以討論看看也許公聽會上面也可以做一個討論\n405484\t406225\t三十條條文修正草案。三十條條文修正草案\n421068\t425193\t提案有關重大決策應由總統或權責機關於三個月內提出為實踐該公民投票內容之必要處置。\n439770\t441631\t內容之行政處分法規定或行政規則或執行法律細節或補充性規定應即停止。\n455996\t480957\t什麼是違反怎麼個違反法公民投票公投這個其實常常都是方向啊那方向決定了之後有太多的執行的狀況是屬於行政應該要作業的狀況啊一層一層的行政機關有太多的方法可以去決定去執行公投的方向啊那難道你每一個執行的方法\n481497\t486919\t都要再拿出來在公民投票一次嗎?在公民投票說這個行政機關用A方法不合適違反了這個我們剛剛公民投票案的內容決議然後我們要再投票一次嗎?這個太奇怪了嘛所以第一這就是所謂的不確定性法律概念又存在在這裡了\n503103\t506765\t第二、如果沒有停止執行者,權責機關之首長應立即提出辭職。\n519770\t542510\t和立法權侵犯行政權。」各位,歷史課又來了,有沒有覺得這個場景似曾相似?不明確的法律概念加立法權侵犯行政權,啊不就是從2月開始的國會擴權法案,就是在講這種事情嗎?所以等於是我們從2月開始一直到現在,甚至是大法官都已經剛剛做出了裁判了,\n542910\t543670\t第三十條條文修正草案案。\n574198\t574459\t接下來請張志倫委員\n","txt":"第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n所以您的態度很清楚代表選務全國的選務機關人員認為這個公投跟大選是應該要分開的說實在的我們今天其實這屆的立法院真的是很常要上這個歷史課啊要回憶一下我們所有修法的這個前因後果所以我們來看一下嘛我們公投法制定我們再看一個法律你要修正你一定要符合它的本質\n意義、實際作為可不可行。我們就先來看公投、公民投票制度的意義與主體。說實在,各位,我們又要從這個法理學開始來上前了。公民投票這個制度的設計意義是什麼?就是在民主國原則,也就是國民主權主權在民的原則之下,\n我們當然有了間接民主就是我們在選舉的時候我們選出了代議士讓這些代議士民意代表到一個國會也好地方議會也好替大家來做立法和重大決策這是間接民主但是基於主權在民國民主權的原則所以我們保留了直接民主讓人民還是可以對事對事情來做一個直接的表態\n所以一個是對人的選舉一個是對事的公投間接民主和直接民主這是民主社會裡面在民主國原則下面的兩大原則它就是拆開的狀況啊這個主委講到這裡我們都看下去這沒問題吧\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。九、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n就今天民眾黨提出的公投法修正案我們主席才是願意再召開兩場的公聽會這兩場的公聽會我認為非常的重要因為它就是再次喚醒大家的記憶我們已經討論多年的公投法公投公投對市的公投到底要和對選人的選舉要怎麼處理這件事情\n我們已經討論過很多年而且已經做過決定過了而且也實行過了綁在一起的時候就是亂了分開的時候就是可行的不管你對結果滿不滿意但實務的進行上面就是應該要清楚明白主委我現在講到這裡應該跟你剛剛的方向是完全一樣符合你這個選務機關的心聲沒錯吧\n我想這也符合全體公民的一個希望期待希望選務是能夠順利所以你要怎麼對事情表達意見這是提案人這樣子的意見但是對選務來講我們要清楚明白更何況我提前還發現了一個做出了一個調查來講的話是從\n2018我們修正完把鳥籠公投打開了以後我們看看到底有多少提案人我們來看這個提案人到底都是一些誰主委你剛剛有看到前面一頁前面一頁你看我們從2018打破鳥籠公投以後到2020這樣的這幾個案子裡面李賢仁是誰李賢仁竟然有三分之一十四案裡面有五案\n超過三分之一都是立法委員立法委員你不是就是在立法院剛剛我們在說的間接民主當中你就是應該在立法院裡面做提案修正法律或提案的人嗎你怎麼會又跑到外面去做一個直接民主的領銜人我覺得這有一點大家也可以討論看看也許公聽會上面也可以做一個討論\n三十條條文修正草案。三十條條文修正草案\n提案有關重大決策應由總統或權責機關於三個月內提出為實踐該公民投票內容之必要處置。\n內容之行政處分法規定或行政規則或執行法律細節或補充性規定應即停止。\n什麼是違反怎麼個違反法公民投票公投這個其實常常都是方向啊那方向決定了之後有太多的執行的狀況是屬於行政應該要作業的狀況啊一層一層的行政機關有太多的方法可以去決定去執行公投的方向啊那難道你每一個執行的方法\n都要再拿出來在公民投票一次嗎?在公民投票說這個行政機關用A方法不合適違反了這個我們剛剛公民投票案的內容決議然後我們要再投票一次嗎?這個太奇怪了嘛所以第一這就是所謂的不確定性法律概念又存在在這裡了\n第二、如果沒有停止執行者,權責機關之首長應立即提出辭職。\n和立法權侵犯行政權。」各位,歷史課又來了,有沒有覺得這個場景似曾相似?不明確的法律概念加立法權侵犯行政權,啊不就是從2月開始的國會擴權法案,就是在講這種事情嗎?所以等於是我們從2月開始一直到現在,甚至是大法官都已經剛剛做出了裁判了,\n第三十條條文修正草案案。\n接下來請張志倫委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.083 --> 00:02.191\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n\n00:09.987 --> 00:19.414\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n00:38.029 --> 00:46.912\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。\n\n01:07.978 --> 01:16.027\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n01:27.260 --> 01:50.355\n所以您的態度很清楚代表選務全國的選務機關人員認為這個公投跟大選是應該要分開的說實在的我們今天其實這屆的立法院真的是很常要上這個歷史課啊要回憶一下我們所有修法的這個前因後果所以我們來看一下嘛我們公投法制定我們再看一個法律你要修正你一定要符合它的本質\n\n01:51.095 --> 01:54.499\n意義、實際作為可不可行。我們就先來看公投、公民投票制度的意義與主體。說實在,各位,我們又要從這個法理學開始來上前了。公民投票這個制度的設計意義是什麼?就是在民主國原則,也就是國民主權主權在民的原則之下,\n\n02:12.779 --> 02:39.769\n我們當然有了間接民主就是我們在選舉的時候我們選出了代議士讓這些代議士民意代表到一個國會也好地方議會也好替大家來做立法和重大決策這是間接民主但是基於主權在民國民主權的原則所以我們保留了直接民主讓人民還是可以對事對事情來做一個直接的表態\n\n02:40.549 --> 02:52.999\n所以一個是對人的選舉一個是對事的公投間接民主和直接民主這是民主社會裡面在民主國原則下面的兩大原則它就是拆開的狀況啊這個主委講到這裡我們都看下去這沒問題吧\n\n02:57.702 --> 03:05.525\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。九、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n\n03:26.650 --> 03:36.272\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等\n\n03:54.255 --> 04:00.159\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n\n04:18.052 --> 04:18.513\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n\n04:38.132 --> 04:51.042\n就今天民眾黨提出的公投法修正案我們主席才是願意再召開兩場的公聽會這兩場的公聽會我認為非常的重要因為它就是再次喚醒大家的記憶我們已經討論多年的公投法公投公投對市的公投到底要和對選人的選舉要怎麼處理這件事情\n\n05:06.855 --> 05:28.106\n我們已經討論過很多年而且已經做過決定過了而且也實行過了綁在一起的時候就是亂了分開的時候就是可行的不管你對結果滿不滿意但實務的進行上面就是應該要清楚明白主委我現在講到這裡應該跟你剛剛的方向是完全一樣符合你這個選務機關的心聲沒錯吧\n\n05:30.347 --> 05:36.430\n我想這也符合全體公民的一個希望期待希望選務是能夠順利所以你要怎麼對事情表達意見這是提案人這樣子的意見但是對選務來講我們要清楚明白更何況我提前還發現了一個做出了一個調查來講的話是從\n\n05:52.338 --> 06:04.822\n2018我們修正完把鳥籠公投打開了以後我們看看到底有多少提案人我們來看這個提案人到底都是一些誰主委你剛剛有看到前面一頁前面一頁你看我們從2018打破鳥籠公投以後到2020這樣的這幾個案子裡面李賢仁是誰李賢仁竟然有三分之一十四案裡面有五案\n\n06:18.425 --> 06:44.363\n超過三分之一都是立法委員立法委員你不是就是在立法院剛剛我們在說的間接民主當中你就是應該在立法院裡面做提案修正法律或提案的人嗎你怎麼會又跑到外面去做一個直接民主的領銜人我覺得這有一點大家也可以討論看看也許公聽會上面也可以做一個討論\n\n06:45.484 --> 06:46.225\n三十條條文修正草案。三十條條文修正草案\n\n07:01.068 --> 07:05.193\n提案有關重大決策應由總統或權責機關於三個月內提出為實踐該公民投票內容之必要處置。\n\n07:19.770 --> 07:21.631\n內容之行政處分法規定或行政規則或執行法律細節或補充性規定應即停止。\n\n07:35.996 --> 08:00.957\n什麼是違反怎麼個違反法公民投票公投這個其實常常都是方向啊那方向決定了之後有太多的執行的狀況是屬於行政應該要作業的狀況啊一層一層的行政機關有太多的方法可以去決定去執行公投的方向啊那難道你每一個執行的方法\n\n08:01.497 --> 08:06.919\n都要再拿出來在公民投票一次嗎?在公民投票說這個行政機關用A方法不合適違反了這個我們剛剛公民投票案的內容決議然後我們要再投票一次嗎?這個太奇怪了嘛所以第一這就是所謂的不確定性法律概念又存在在這裡了\n\n08:23.103 --> 08:26.765\n第二、如果沒有停止執行者,權責機關之首長應立即提出辭職。\n\n08:39.770 --> 09:02.510\n和立法權侵犯行政權。」各位,歷史課又來了,有沒有覺得這個場景似曾相似?不明確的法律概念加立法權侵犯行政權,啊不就是從2月開始的國會擴權法案,就是在講這種事情嗎?所以等於是我們從2月開始一直到現在,甚至是大法官都已經剛剛做出了裁判了,\n\n09:02.910 --> 09:03.670\n第三十條條文修正草案案。\n\n09:34.198 --> 09:34.459\n接下來請張志倫委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.083,"end":2.191,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員"},{"start":9.987,"end":19.414,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":38.029,"end":46.912,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案。"},{"start":67.978,"end":76.027,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":87.26,"end":110.355,"text":"所以您的態度很清楚代表選務全國的選務機關人員認為這個公投跟大選是應該要分開的說實在的我們今天其實這屆的立法院真的是很常要上這個歷史課啊要回憶一下我們所有修法的這個前因後果所以我們來看一下嘛我們公投法制定我們再看一個法律你要修正你一定要符合它的本質"},{"start":111.095,"end":114.499,"text":"意義、實際作為可不可行。我們就先來看公投、公民投票制度的意義與主體。說實在,各位,我們又要從這個法理學開始來上前了。公民投票這個制度的設計意義是什麼?就是在民主國原則,也就是國民主權主權在民的原則之下,"},{"start":132.779,"end":159.769,"text":"我們當然有了間接民主就是我們在選舉的時候我們選出了代議士讓這些代議士民意代表到一個國會也好地方議會也好替大家來做立法和重大決策這是間接民主但是基於主權在民國民主權的原則所以我們保留了直接民主讓人民還是可以對事對事情來做一個直接的表態"},{"start":160.549,"end":172.999,"text":"所以一個是對人的選舉一個是對事的公投間接民主和直接民主這是民主社會裡面在民主國原則下面的兩大原則它就是拆開的狀況啊這個主委講到這裡我們都看下去這沒問題吧"},{"start":177.702,"end":185.525,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。九、審查委員羅智強等21人擬具《公民投票法》案。"},{"start":206.65,"end":216.272,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等"},{"start":234.255,"end":240.159,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。"},{"start":258.052,"end":258.513,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具"},{"start":278.132,"end":291.042,"text":"就今天民眾黨提出的公投法修正案我們主席才是願意再召開兩場的公聽會這兩場的公聽會我認為非常的重要因為它就是再次喚醒大家的記憶我們已經討論多年的公投法公投公投對市的公投到底要和對選人的選舉要怎麼處理這件事情"},{"start":306.855,"end":328.106,"text":"我們已經討論過很多年而且已經做過決定過了而且也實行過了綁在一起的時候就是亂了分開的時候就是可行的不管你對結果滿不滿意但實務的進行上面就是應該要清楚明白主委我現在講到這裡應該跟你剛剛的方向是完全一樣符合你這個選務機關的心聲沒錯吧"},{"start":330.347,"end":336.43,"text":"我想這也符合全體公民的一個希望期待希望選務是能夠順利所以你要怎麼對事情表達意見這是提案人這樣子的意見但是對選務來講我們要清楚明白更何況我提前還發現了一個做出了一個調查來講的話是從"},{"start":352.338,"end":364.822,"text":"2018我們修正完把鳥籠公投打開了以後我們看看到底有多少提案人我們來看這個提案人到底都是一些誰主委你剛剛有看到前面一頁前面一頁你看我們從2018打破鳥籠公投以後到2020這樣的這幾個案子裡面李賢仁是誰李賢仁竟然有三分之一十四案裡面有五案"},{"start":378.425,"end":404.363,"text":"超過三分之一都是立法委員立法委員你不是就是在立法院剛剛我們在說的間接民主當中你就是應該在立法院裡面做提案修正法律或提案的人嗎你怎麼會又跑到外面去做一個直接民主的領銜人我覺得這有一點大家也可以討論看看也許公聽會上面也可以做一個討論"},{"start":405.484,"end":406.225,"text":"三十條條文修正草案。三十條條文修正草案"},{"start":421.068,"end":425.193,"text":"提案有關重大決策應由總統或權責機關於三個月內提出為實踐該公民投票內容之必要處置。"},{"start":439.77,"end":441.631,"text":"內容之行政處分法規定或行政規則或執行法律細節或補充性規定應即停止。"},{"start":455.996,"end":480.957,"text":"什麼是違反怎麼個違反法公民投票公投這個其實常常都是方向啊那方向決定了之後有太多的執行的狀況是屬於行政應該要作業的狀況啊一層一層的行政機關有太多的方法可以去決定去執行公投的方向啊那難道你每一個執行的方法"},{"start":481.497,"end":486.919,"text":"都要再拿出來在公民投票一次嗎?在公民投票說這個行政機關用A方法不合適違反了這個我們剛剛公民投票案的內容決議然後我們要再投票一次嗎?這個太奇怪了嘛所以第一這就是所謂的不確定性法律概念又存在在這裡了"},{"start":503.103,"end":506.765,"text":"第二、如果沒有停止執行者,權責機關之首長應立即提出辭職。"},{"start":519.77,"end":542.51,"text":"和立法權侵犯行政權。」各位,歷史課又來了,有沒有覺得這個場景似曾相似?不明確的法律概念加立法權侵犯行政權,啊不就是從2月開始的國會擴權法案,就是在講這種事情嗎?所以等於是我們從2月開始一直到現在,甚至是大法官都已經剛剛做出了裁判了,"},{"start":542.91,"end":543.67,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":574.198,"end":574.459,"text":"接下來請張志倫委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":398,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（10時10分）謝謝主席，我們請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委好。主委，我們都了解，其實修訂、制定法律是立法委員的職責，我們如果看到社會上有任何的意見、問題，我們當然都可以提出法律案的修正，這沒有問題。但是我們的公投法，公投法在2018年、2019年修正之後執行到現在，真的還有這樣的問題嗎？尤其是在2022年的時候，也還剛剛經歷了一次公投綁大選是否同意，結論就是不同意綁大選，這樣子的態度已經在社會的公投當中也展現過了，所以我們今天為什麼又要再來探討一次公投是不是要跟大選的時程合併？主委，你心中的看法，剛剛其實已經花了很長的時間表述過了，作為一個選務機關，你從主旨也好、從選務的實際工作來講，您的態度就是不贊成公投和選舉兩者併在一起，對不對？你不贊成嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：我是代表全國的選務工作人員，包括地方政府辦理選務的人員大家共同的心聲，我們是堅決希望公投跟大選能夠分開辦理。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，所以您的態度很清楚，代表全國的選務機關人員認為公投跟大選是應該要分開的，說實在的，其實這一屆的立法院真的是很常要上歷史課，要回憶一下我們所有修法的前因後果，所以我們來看一下，公投法的制定，我們在看一個法律，若要修正，一定要符合它的本旨意義，然後再看實際作為可不可行。","我們就先來看公民投票制度的意義與主體，說實在，各位，我們又要從法理學開始上起來，公民投票制度的設計意義是什麼？就是在民主國原則，也就是國民主權、主權在民的原則之下，我們當然有了間接民主，就是在選舉的時候，我們選出了代議士，讓這些代議士、民意代表到國會也好、地方議會也好，替大家來做立法和重大決策，這是間接民主；但是基於主權在民、國民主權的原則，所以我們保留了直接民主，讓人民還是可以對事情來做直接的表態。因此，一個是對人的選舉、一個是對事的公投，間接民主和直接民主，這是民主社會裡面在民主國原則下面的兩大原則，它就是拆開的狀況。","主委，講到這裡，我們都讀法律的，這沒問題吧，對不對？應該是這樣嘛！那結果呢？從制度上面來講是這樣，可是從剛剛說的選舉實務狀況來講，當我們把兩個原則都保留，但是我們疊在一起做，疊在一起做的後面，制度實務上就發生什麼？主委，你剛剛很客氣地用口頭表示，我們秀一下照片，2018的時候，發生的狀況很清楚，我們直接秀照片嘛！當時的狀況，確確實實就是因為公投的案數太多，所以我們不但要一邊選人、一邊還要決定事情，結果每一張選舉投票單上面的事情敘述，夾敘法、倒譯法、頂真法，什麼都用上了，就是故意讓你看不懂，而看不懂，你在裡面就等很久，等很久之後，最後就是票投不完。下午4點了，還有人在外面排隊，排隊的狀況到最後是，你看看我們這張截出來的新聞：投票人潮難消化，民眾排隊手機看開票。就是一邊看開票、一邊去投票，這個亂象大家應該都還印象深刻吧！如果忘記了，我們就把照片調出來，就是這樣的狀況啊！所以把事情和人混在一起講，就會形成這樣的效果，不是這樣嗎？","因此我們今天很高興主席已經宣告了，就是我們就今天國民黨、民眾黨提出的公投法修正案，主席裁示了，願意再召開兩場的公聽會，這兩場公聽會我認為非常地重要，因為它就是再次喚醒大家的記憶，我們已經討論多年的公投法，公投、公投，對事的公投到底和對人的選舉要怎麼處理，這件事情我們已經討論過很多年，而且已經做過決定，而且也實行過了，綁在一起的時候就是亂了，分開的時候就是可行的。不管你對結果滿不滿意，但實務的進行上面就是應該要清楚明白。主委，我現在講到這裡，應該跟你剛剛的方向是完全一樣，符合你這個選務機關的心聲，沒錯吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：我想這也符合全體公民的希望、期待，希望選務是能夠順利進行。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以你要怎麼對事情表達意見，這是提案人這樣子的意見，但是對選務來講，我們要清楚明白，更何況我其實還發現之前做的一個調查，從2018我們修正完，把鳥籠公投打開了以後，我們來看看這些提案人到底都是誰。主委，你看看我們從2018打破鳥籠公投以後到2020，這幾個案子的領銜人是誰？14案裡面有5案的領銜人超過三分之一都是立法委員，立法委員不就是剛剛我們所說的間接民主當中應該在立法院裡面提案修正法律的提案人嗎？怎麼會又跑到外面去做直接民主的領銜人？我覺得這一點大家也可以討論看看，也許公聽會上面也可以做一個討論。","最後，還有另外一案是針對第三十條的部分，也跟大家做個意見交換，因為我們還有兩場公聽會可以表達。公投法第三十條修正案寫得洋洋灑灑，這個提案是說「有關重大決策者，應由總統或權責機關於三個月內提出為實現該公民投票內容之必要處置」，聽起來很正確啊，就是行政機關要照著剛剛直接民主公民投票的結論去做，可是魔鬼藏在細節裡，你看從「但」這個字後面開始，「但違反該公民投票案內容之行政處分、法規命令或行政規則或執行法律細節或補充性規定，應即停止執行」，什麼是違反？怎麼個違反法？公民投票其實常常都是方向，方向決定了之後，有太多的執行狀況是屬於行政應該要去作業的狀況，一層一層的行政機關有太多的方法可以去決定、去執行公投的方向，難道每一個執行的方法都要再拿出來再公民投票一次嗎？公民投票說行政機關用A方法不合適，違反了我們剛剛公民投票案的內容決議，然後我們又要再投票一次嗎？這個太奇怪了嘛！所以第一，這就是所謂的不確定性法律概念又存在在這裡了。然後第二個，下面規定「未即停止執行者，權責機關之首長應立即提出辭職」，哇，用立法來規定行政人員要辭職的，這是我這輩子第一次看到的！你看看，不明確的行政概念、不明確的法律概念和立法權侵犯行政權，各位，歷史課又來了，有沒有覺得這個場景似曾相識？不明確的法律概念加立法權侵犯行政權，不就是從2月開始的國會擴權法案，就是在講這種事情嘛！所以等於是我們從2月開始一直到現在，甚至是大法官都已經做出裁判了，就是說這種法律案行不通啊，怎麼又再來一次呢？所以各位，我們認真看一下今天提出來的公投法草案，又再一次的是不明確的法律概念加上立法權侵犯行政權，這個實在是不應該讓它過啦！","好，本席的意見就表示到這裡，謝謝主委，我提供我的意見。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員。"],["蘇委員巧慧：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請張智倫委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-7","speakers":["徐欣瑩","羅智強","麥玉珍","賴士葆","張宏陸","李柏毅","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","黃捷","許宇甄","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","翁曉玲","高金素梅"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查委員賴士葆等19人擬\n具「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員吳秉叡等21人擬具「公民投票法部分\n條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員羅智強等 18 人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」\n案；五、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公民投票法第二十一條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139301_00001"}}}