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\"投\", \"start\": 195.303, \"end\": 195.463, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 195.463, \"end\": 196.383, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 196.383, \"end\": 196.523, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 196.523, \"end\": 196.683, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 196.683, \"end\": 197.103, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 197.103, \"end\": 197.283, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 197.283, \"end\": 197.403, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 197.403, \"end\": 197.603, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 197.603, \"end\": 197.823, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 197.823, \"end\": 198.083, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 198.083, \"end\": 198.283, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 198.283, \"end\": 198.523, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 198.523, \"end\": 199.164, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 199.164, \"end\": 199.364, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 199.364, \"end\": 199.664, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 199.664, \"end\": 199.784, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 199.784, \"end\": 200.924, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 200.924, \"end\": 201.124, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"右\", \"start\": 201.124, \"end\": 201.644, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 201.644, \"end\": 201.824, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 201.824, \"end\": 202.004, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 202.004, \"end\": 202.344, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 202.344, \"end\": 202.544, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 202.544, \"end\": 202.725, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 202.725, \"end\": 203.405, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 203.405, \"end\": 203.585, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 203.585, \"end\": 203.745, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 203.745, \"end\": 204.705, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 204.705, \"end\": 204.945, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 204.945, \"end\": 205.085, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 205.085, \"end\": 205.445, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 205.445, \"end\": 205.585, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 205.585, \"end\": 205.785, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 205.785, \"end\": 206.466, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 206.466, \"end\": 206.706, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 206.706, \"end\": 206.886, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", 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{\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 210.567, \"end\": 210.687, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 210.687, \"end\": 210.867, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 210.867, \"end\": 211.487, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 211.487, \"end\": 211.727, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 211.727, \"end\": 212.687, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 212.687, \"end\": 212.967, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 212.967, \"end\": 213.127, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 213.127, \"end\": 213.327, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"榜\", \"start\": 213.327, \"end\": 213.507, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 213.507, \"end\": 214.328, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 214.328, \"end\": 214.488, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"藻\", \"start\": 214.488, \"end\": 214.708, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"礁\", \"start\": 214.708, \"end\": 214.968, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 214.968, \"end\": 215.168, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 215.168, \"end\": 215.188, \"score\": 0.1}]}, {\"start\": 216.454, \"end\": 242.461, \"text\": \"雖然都不通過可是當然大家很多人說因為沒有通過所以這個公投黨大選不能來看可是要跟主委報告的是公投黨大選不同意的比例只有400多萬人其實兩個選舉的投票數將近差了300多萬人主委你認為這樣子的投票數跟投票率可以代表全民的心聲嗎?如果增加300多萬人的投票數投票的結果會不會有可能改變?就中選會的職責來講投票率這麼低\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 216.454, \"end\": 216.574, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 216.574, \"end\": 216.714, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 216.714, \"end\": 216.854, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 216.854, \"end\": 217.434, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 217.434, \"end\": 217.534, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 217.534, \"end\": 217.654, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 217.654, \"end\": 217.874, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 217.874, \"end\": 217.994, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 217.994, \"end\": 218.135, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 218.135, \"end\": 218.275, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 218.275, \"end\": 218.395, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 218.395, \"end\": 219.455, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 219.455, \"end\": 219.615, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 219.615, \"end\": 219.735, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 219.735, \"end\": 219.875, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 219.875, \"end\": 220.295, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 220.295, \"end\": 220.455, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 220.455, \"end\": 220.835, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 220.835, \"end\": 220.975, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 220.975, \"end\": 221.315, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 221.315, \"end\": 221.675, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 221.675, \"end\": 221.776, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 221.776, \"end\": 222.076, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 222.076, \"end\": 222.596, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 222.596, \"end\": 222.676, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 222.676, \"end\": 222.776, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 222.776, \"end\": 222.876, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 222.876, \"end\": 223.356, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 223.356, \"end\": 223.456, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 223.456, \"end\": 223.756, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 223.756, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 234.879, \"end\": 235.499, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 235.499, \"end\": 235.599, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 235.599, \"end\": 235.699, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 235.699, \"end\": 235.859, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 235.859, \"end\": 236.059, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 236.059, \"end\": 236.199, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 236.199, \"end\": 236.3, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 236.3, \"end\": 236.42, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 236.42, \"end\": 236.84, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"聲\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 236.84, \"end\": 236.98, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 236.98, \"end\": 237.14, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 237.14, \"end\": 237.28, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 237.28, \"end\": 237.84, 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\"數比過去的投票率少了10%。」這是中選會想要看到的結果嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 246.527, \"end\": 246.888, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 246.888, \"end\": 246.989, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 246.989, \"end\": 247.049, \"score\": 0.569}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 247.049, \"end\": 247.189, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 247.189, \"end\": 247.39, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 247.39, \"end\": 247.631, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 247.631, \"end\": 247.752, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 247.752, \"end\": 248.836, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"」\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 248.836, \"end\": 249.016, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 249.016, \"end\": 249.498, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 249.498, \"end\": 249.619, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 249.619, \"end\": 249.739, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 249.739, \"end\": 249.88, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 249.88, \"end\": 250.0, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 250.0, \"end\": 250.281, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 250.281, \"end\": 250.301, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 251.274, \"end\": 277.322, \"text\": \"我想不管是投票率不管是通過與否的這個門檻呢都是公投法所明定的那在這個明定的法制底下所產生的結果我們中選會是予以尊重也希望全民大家共同遵守所以要跟主委報告投票人數降低這麼多投票率下降這麼多可是我們看到在111年當時18歲公民投票的時候那時候中選會又轉彎了為什麼突然又綁大選呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 251.274, \"end\": 251.374, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 251.374, \"end\": 251.714, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 251.714, \"end\": 251.874, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 251.874, \"end\": 252.134, \"score\": 0.992}, 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547.353, \"end\": 574.711, \"text\": \"根本就有一些台灣已經變鳥籠公投根本不能不能公投根本沒辦法實現啊為什麼我想請教現在有沒有人在使用你這個公投這個電子連署系統目前的案子都還沒有走到連署的這個階段都還沒有進到連署的階段如果到了話我跟主委報告就是因為現在整個連署大家認為門檻很高而且很難成案就算成案投票數也不會通過所以本席是可以請教你沒有具體的事證嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 547.353, \"end\": 547.453, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 547.453, \"end\": 547.573, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 547.573, \"end\": 547.653, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 547.653, \"end\": 547.693, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 547.693, \"end\": 547.733, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 547.733, \"end\": 547.853, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 547.853, \"end\": 547.994, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 547.994, \"end\": 548.834, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"鳥\"}, {\"word\": \"籠\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 548.834, \"end\": 548.994, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"投\", 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\"start\": 674.958, \"end\": 675.138, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 675.138, \"end\": 675.158, \"score\": 0.15}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,309 --> 00:00:01,651\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n2\n00:00:11,223 --> 00:00:23,736\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n\n3\n00:00:33,866 --> 00:00:47,009\n本席支持羅智強委員的版本主要就是需要說公投榜大選讓人民的心聲可以讓政府聽到所以我們也可以看一下我們過去公投法的歷史在當時在2003年民國92年的12月31號當時定立公投法的時候在24條就已經有這個條文是說這個中選會應該在公投\n\n4\n00:01:00,151 --> 00:01:28,211\n按公告成立後一個月應該得以全國性的選舉是同日舉行其實當時的92年2003年的那個概念就是要公投綁大選可是那時候是用德字就說可以那在2018年的時候那時候民進黨是屬於多數在第23條那時候有有通過民進黨黨團的修法把德字改成英字意思就是把這個公投綁大選的合理性\n\n5\n00:01:28,951 --> 00:01:55,116\n再次加強說公投就應該要綁大選因為可以省錢讓人民省時間而且讓投票率變得更高可是沒有想到在2018年的時候那時候投票結果剛剛大家一直有講到十個公投案結果投出來的結果可能當時的民進黨執政黨不是很滿意所以在2019年的時候就修法講說公投現在因為選的不好公投不要綁大選了\n\n6\n00:01:56,601 --> 00:01:57,925\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n\n7\n00:02:04,884 --> 00:02:27,179\n謝謝委員的指教我剛剛已經跟各位報告過就是說2004年我們第一次這個公民投票那個時候是跟大選在一起在2018以前2004以後一共進行了十個案子的公民投票的投票那他是跟選舉綁在一起的選務順遂沒有發生任何的問題\n\n8\n00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:42,930\n為什麼到2018年一下子增加了10個公投案就發生問題了那個亂象大家心到現在都還在痛所以一定要去檢討檢討的結果有一個不能夠迴避的問題那就是量太大了\n\n9\n00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:06,349\n過去在2018年的時候國民黨黨團有修法要公投綁大選就是因為選舉那時候的選舉選輸了後來才開始臨時大轉彎那我要跟主委報告當時選舉完的時候選舉的結果\n\n10\n00:03:14,302 --> 00:03:35,188\n當時2018年的時候10個公投案基本上我們的投票的投票率都是大概55%左右投票人數大概將近1000萬人以上所以我認為這樣的投票是可以參考的可是我們看到在2019年修法過了以後我們合適來租公投榜大選還有藻礁公投\n\n11\n00:03:36,454 --> 00:04:02,461\n雖然都不通過可是當然大家很多人說因為沒有通過所以這個公投黨大選不能來看可是要跟主委報告的是公投黨大選不同意的比例只有400多萬人其實兩個選舉的投票數將近差了300多萬人主委你認為這樣子的投票數跟投票率可以代表全民的心聲嗎?如果增加300多萬人的投票數投票的結果會不會有可能改變?就中選會的職責來講投票率這麼低\n\n12\n00:04:06,527 --> 00:04:10,301\n數比過去的投票率少了10%。」這是中選會想要看到的結果嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:11,274 --> 00:04:37,322\n我想不管是投票率不管是通過與否的這個門檻呢都是公投法所明定的那在這個明定的法制底下所產生的結果我們中選會是予以尊重也希望全民大家共同遵守所以要跟主委報告投票人數降低這麼多投票率下降這麼多可是我們看到在111年當時18歲公民投票的時候那時候中選會又轉彎了為什麼突然又綁大選呢\n\n14\n00:04:39,983 --> 00:04:46,907\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n\n15\n00:05:03,655 --> 00:05:22,555\n他必須要在一定的時間內完成,同時也配合大院提出的時程公告的這個時程,我們才做那樣子的選務的安排。不是說我們中選會決定要不要,而是根據法律的規定,根據大院的一個提案。\n\n16\n00:05:23,386 --> 00:05:50,838\n主委剛剛我們剛剛開始有一個提案委員羅智強委員一開始也提案提到其實時空會轉換民意大家民意會民意如潮水大家會不同的時間會改變所以剛剛羅智強委員說我們最近新的民調有66%的民眾其實現在是支持公投黨大選所以那我要再跟主委請教一下針對當時這個造成的亂象了以後其實監察監察院有提出這個監察委員有提出的建議案\n\n17\n00:05:51,698 --> 00:06:06,637\n其實剛剛主委特別提到當時選舉十個公投案造成的亂象有關於選舉動線混亂投票票數不夠多以及選務人員人數不足請問這個主委你現在有沒有辦法有信心\n\n18\n00:06:07,578 --> 00:06:23,994\n希望說我們中選會不能無能有沒有辦法把這個投票的這個動線改善以及對我們的選務人員是不是當時有說對選務人員報酬給付跟訓練應該要多一些的資助資源請問主委這邊有沒有做一些改善\n\n19\n00:06:25,194 --> 00:06:49,981\n謝謝委員對選務的關心第一點我要說明的是2021年的公投綁大選的公投案沒有通過這是一個不爭的事實我剛剛跟你報告他的門檻沒有到門檻有沒有到門檻主委這是一個不爭的事實主委有沒有到門檻就是沒有通過沒有到門檻也沒到通過的門檻不通過的門檻嘛沒有沒有對啊所以代表投票數不夠多嘛\n\n20\n00:06:51,161 --> 00:06:57,304\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n\n21\n00:07:16,793 --> 00:07:28,686\n分流有兩方面的做法,第一個做法叫硬體的改革,硬體的改革就是說我們增設投開票所,從2018的全國一萬五千多個,我們到2024年就一萬七千多個,增加將近兩千個\n\n22\n00:07:35,053 --> 00:07:59,508\n同時降低每個投開票所的投票人的人數有效的來降低。另外就是說在管理的部分這個投票的動線我們的選務工作人員是主動的來協助我們每一個選民能夠順利的快速的完成他的投票的整個過程。那大議員有沒有比較好?謝謝大議員的支持大議員有調整有調整所以主委能不能保證\n\n23\n00:08:02,990 --> 00:08:03,692\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n\n24\n00:08:10,849 --> 00:08:39,167\n如果被綁在一起我就不敢保證了。還是不能保證?綁在一起我就不敢保證了。所以主委你要好好再去檢討,我們現在剛剛在討論的問題請教你就是這些問題。如果不綁在一起我們不要說保證了,我們從2020開始到2024大大小小的選舉已經有多少?我現在要求你就是說,不管有沒有綁在一起,其實台灣你要好好來安排動線,好好提升我們選務人員的數量跟他們的待遇,這樣我相信就不會\n\n25\n00:08:40,007 --> 00:09:03,792\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n26\n00:09:07,353 --> 00:09:34,711\n根本就有一些台灣已經變鳥籠公投根本不能不能公投根本沒辦法實現啊為什麼我想請教現在有沒有人在使用你這個公投這個電子連署系統目前的案子都還沒有走到連署的這個階段都還沒有進到連署的階段如果到了話我跟主委報告就是因為現在整個連署大家認為門檻很高而且很難成案就算成案投票數也不會通過所以本席是可以請教你沒有具體的事證嗎\n\n27\n00:09:35,672 --> 00:09:36,353\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n\n28\n00:09:46,056 --> 00:10:13,534\n這個我覺得才能讓投票計票的速度增加加快你有沒有在研究這一塊?委員可能也注意到最近美國在總統大選有些州他們的這個開票他們的這個計票開票時間都拖了很長他們說台灣有夠厲害有夠很好又充滿了這個公信大家信任所以我們目前的這個開票計票的這個方式是很多國家很有興趣的\n\n29\n00:10:13,874 --> 00:10:16,830\n我們覺得這也是我們選務上的成就,我們會珍惜。」\n\n30\n00:10:17,766 --> 00:10:43,845\n最後的一點時間我要跟主委報告主委你非常資深不管從蔡英文政府到愛心德政府你都擔任中選會主委因為現在大家都知道現在最近全民最關注的就是這個大法官的實質廢死案那全民大概大家很多人都對於這個大法官的事現在非常不能認同所以我們當然國民黨團是希望說這個不論是用全民自主用公投案的力量或是\n\n31\n00:10:45,486 --> 00:10:50,228\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員吳秉叡等19人擬具《公民投票法第一條條文修正草案》案。\n\n32\n00:11:09,996 --> 00:11:15,158\n公投綁大選如果沒有配套的分流措施的話,一定會造成災難。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n309\t1651\t第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n11223\t23736\t三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n33866\t47009\t本席支持羅智強委員的版本主要就是需要說公投榜大選讓人民的心聲可以讓政府聽到所以我們也可以看一下我們過去公投法的歷史在當時在2003年民國92年的12月31號當時定立公投法的時候在24條就已經有這個條文是說這個中選會應該在公投\n60151\t88211\t按公告成立後一個月應該得以全國性的選舉是同日舉行其實當時的92年2003年的那個概念就是要公投綁大選可是那時候是用德字就說可以那在2018年的時候那時候民進黨是屬於多數在第23條那時候有有通過民進黨黨團的修法把德字改成英字意思就是把這個公投綁大選的合理性\n88951\t115116\t再次加強說公投就應該要綁大選因為可以省錢讓人民省時間而且讓投票率變得更高可是沒有想到在2018年的時候那時候投票結果剛剛大家一直有講到十個公投案結果投出來的結果可能當時的民進黨執政黨不是很滿意所以在2019年的時候就修法講說公投現在因為選的不好公投不要綁大選了\n116601\t117925\t第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n124884\t147179\t謝謝委員的指教我剛剛已經跟各位報告過就是說2004年我們第一次這個公民投票那個時候是跟大選在一起在2018以前2004以後一共進行了十個案子的公民投票的投票那他是跟選舉綁在一起的選務順遂沒有發生任何的問題\n148520\t162930\t為什麼到2018年一下子增加了10個公投案就發生問題了那個亂象大家心到現在都還在痛所以一定要去檢討檢討的結果有一個不能夠迴避的問題那就是量太大了\n178320\t186349\t過去在2018年的時候國民黨黨團有修法要公投綁大選就是因為選舉那時候的選舉選輸了後來才開始臨時大轉彎那我要跟主委報告當時選舉完的時候選舉的結果\n194302\t215188\t當時2018年的時候10個公投案基本上我們的投票的投票率都是大概55%左右投票人數大概將近1000萬人以上所以我認為這樣的投票是可以參考的可是我們看到在2019年修法過了以後我們合適來租公投榜大選還有藻礁公投\n216454\t242461\t雖然都不通過可是當然大家很多人說因為沒有通過所以這個公投黨大選不能來看可是要跟主委報告的是公投黨大選不同意的比例只有400多萬人其實兩個選舉的投票數將近差了300多萬人主委你認為這樣子的投票數跟投票率可以代表全民的心聲嗎?如果增加300多萬人的投票數投票的結果會不會有可能改變?就中選會的職責來講投票率這麼低\n246527\t250301\t數比過去的投票率少了10%。」這是中選會想要看到的結果嗎?\n251274\t277322\t我想不管是投票率不管是通過與否的這個門檻呢都是公投法所明定的那在這個明定的法制底下所產生的結果我們中選會是予以尊重也希望全民大家共同遵守所以要跟主委報告投票人數降低這麼多投票率下降這麼多可是我們看到在111年當時18歲公民投票的時候那時候中選會又轉彎了為什麼突然又綁大選呢\n279983\t286907\t三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n303655\t322555\t他必須要在一定的時間內完成,同時也配合大院提出的時程公告的這個時程,我們才做那樣子的選務的安排。不是說我們中選會決定要不要,而是根據法律的規定,根據大院的一個提案。\n323386\t350838\t主委剛剛我們剛剛開始有一個提案委員羅智強委員一開始也提案提到其實時空會轉換民意大家民意會民意如潮水大家會不同的時間會改變所以剛剛羅智強委員說我們最近新的民調有66%的民眾其實現在是支持公投黨大選所以那我要再跟主委請教一下針對當時這個造成的亂象了以後其實監察監察院有提出這個監察委員有提出的建議案\n351698\t366637\t其實剛剛主委特別提到當時選舉十個公投案造成的亂象有關於選舉動線混亂投票票數不夠多以及選務人員人數不足請問這個主委你現在有沒有辦法有信心\n367578\t383994\t希望說我們中選會不能無能有沒有辦法把這個投票的這個動線改善以及對我們的選務人員是不是當時有說對選務人員報酬給付跟訓練應該要多一些的資助資源請問主委這邊有沒有做一些改善\n385194\t409981\t謝謝委員對選務的關心第一點我要說明的是2021年的公投綁大選的公投案沒有通過這是一個不爭的事實我剛剛跟你報告他的門檻沒有到門檻有沒有到門檻主委這是一個不爭的事實主委有沒有到門檻就是沒有通過沒有到門檻也沒到通過的門檻不通過的門檻嘛沒有沒有對啊所以代表投票數不夠多嘛\n411161\t417304\t三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n436793\t448686\t分流有兩方面的做法,第一個做法叫硬體的改革,硬體的改革就是說我們增設投開票所,從2018的全國一萬五千多個,我們到2024年就一萬七千多個,增加將近兩千個\n455053\t479508\t同時降低每個投開票所的投票人的人數有效的來降低。另外就是說在管理的部分這個投票的動線我們的選務工作人員是主動的來協助我們每一個選民能夠順利的快速的完成他的投票的整個過程。那大議員有沒有比較好?謝謝大議員的支持大議員有調整有調整所以主委能不能保證\n482990\t483692\t三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n490849\t519167\t如果被綁在一起我就不敢保證了。還是不能保證?綁在一起我就不敢保證了。所以主委你要好好再去檢討,我們現在剛剛在討論的問題請教你就是這些問題。如果不綁在一起我們不要說保證了,我們從2020開始到2024大大小小的選舉已經有多少?我現在要求你就是說,不管有沒有綁在一起,其實台灣你要好好來安排動線,好好提升我們選務人員的數量跟他們的待遇,這樣我相信就不會\n520007\t543792\t三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n547353\t574711\t根本就有一些台灣已經變鳥籠公投根本不能不能公投根本沒辦法實現啊為什麼我想請教現在有沒有人在使用你這個公投這個電子連署系統目前的案子都還沒有走到連署的這個階段都還沒有進到連署的階段如果到了話我跟主委報告就是因為現在整個連署大家認為門檻很高而且很難成案就算成案投票數也不會通過所以本席是可以請教你沒有具體的事證嗎\n575672\t576353\t三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n586056\t613534\t這個我覺得才能讓投票計票的速度增加加快你有沒有在研究這一塊?委員可能也注意到最近美國在總統大選有些州他們的這個開票他們的這個計票開票時間都拖了很長他們說台灣有夠厲害有夠很好又充滿了這個公信大家信任所以我們目前的這個開票計票的這個方式是很多國家很有興趣的\n613874\t616830\t我們覺得這也是我們選務上的成就,我們會珍惜。」\n617766\t643845\t最後的一點時間我要跟主委報告主委你非常資深不管從蔡英文政府到愛心德政府你都擔任中選會主委因為現在大家都知道現在最近全民最關注的就是這個大法官的實質廢死案那全民大概大家很多人都對於這個大法官的事現在非常不能認同所以我們當然國民黨團是希望說這個不論是用全民自主用公投案的力量或是\n645486\t650228\t第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員吳秉叡等19人擬具《公民投票法第一條條文修正草案》案。\n669996\t675158\t公投綁大選如果沒有配套的分流措施的話,一定會造成災難。\n","txt":"第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n本席支持羅智強委員的版本主要就是需要說公投榜大選讓人民的心聲可以讓政府聽到所以我們也可以看一下我們過去公投法的歷史在當時在2003年民國92年的12月31號當時定立公投法的時候在24條就已經有這個條文是說這個中選會應該在公投\n按公告成立後一個月應該得以全國性的選舉是同日舉行其實當時的92年2003年的那個概念就是要公投綁大選可是那時候是用德字就說可以那在2018年的時候那時候民進黨是屬於多數在第23條那時候有有通過民進黨黨團的修法把德字改成英字意思就是把這個公投綁大選的合理性\n再次加強說公投就應該要綁大選因為可以省錢讓人民省時間而且讓投票率變得更高可是沒有想到在2018年的時候那時候投票結果剛剛大家一直有講到十個公投案結果投出來的結果可能當時的民進黨執政黨不是很滿意所以在2019年的時候就修法講說公投現在因為選的不好公投不要綁大選了\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n謝謝委員的指教我剛剛已經跟各位報告過就是說2004年我們第一次這個公民投票那個時候是跟大選在一起在2018以前2004以後一共進行了十個案子的公民投票的投票那他是跟選舉綁在一起的選務順遂沒有發生任何的問題\n為什麼到2018年一下子增加了10個公投案就發生問題了那個亂象大家心到現在都還在痛所以一定要去檢討檢討的結果有一個不能夠迴避的問題那就是量太大了\n過去在2018年的時候國民黨黨團有修法要公投綁大選就是因為選舉那時候的選舉選輸了後來才開始臨時大轉彎那我要跟主委報告當時選舉完的時候選舉的結果\n當時2018年的時候10個公投案基本上我們的投票的投票率都是大概55%左右投票人數大概將近1000萬人以上所以我認為這樣的投票是可以參考的可是我們看到在2019年修法過了以後我們合適來租公投榜大選還有藻礁公投\n雖然都不通過可是當然大家很多人說因為沒有通過所以這個公投黨大選不能來看可是要跟主委報告的是公投黨大選不同意的比例只有400多萬人其實兩個選舉的投票數將近差了300多萬人主委你認為這樣子的投票數跟投票率可以代表全民的心聲嗎?如果增加300多萬人的投票數投票的結果會不會有可能改變?就中選會的職責來講投票率這麼低\n數比過去的投票率少了10%。」這是中選會想要看到的結果嗎?\n我想不管是投票率不管是通過與否的這個門檻呢都是公投法所明定的那在這個明定的法制底下所產生的結果我們中選會是予以尊重也希望全民大家共同遵守所以要跟主委報告投票人數降低這麼多投票率下降這麼多可是我們看到在111年當時18歲公民投票的時候那時候中選會又轉彎了為什麼突然又綁大選呢\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n他必須要在一定的時間內完成,同時也配合大院提出的時程公告的這個時程,我們才做那樣子的選務的安排。不是說我們中選會決定要不要,而是根據法律的規定,根據大院的一個提案。\n主委剛剛我們剛剛開始有一個提案委員羅智強委員一開始也提案提到其實時空會轉換民意大家民意會民意如潮水大家會不同的時間會改變所以剛剛羅智強委員說我們最近新的民調有66%的民眾其實現在是支持公投黨大選所以那我要再跟主委請教一下針對當時這個造成的亂象了以後其實監察監察院有提出這個監察委員有提出的建議案\n其實剛剛主委特別提到當時選舉十個公投案造成的亂象有關於選舉動線混亂投票票數不夠多以及選務人員人數不足請問這個主委你現在有沒有辦法有信心\n希望說我們中選會不能無能有沒有辦法把這個投票的這個動線改善以及對我們的選務人員是不是當時有說對選務人員報酬給付跟訓練應該要多一些的資助資源請問主委這邊有沒有做一些改善\n謝謝委員對選務的關心第一點我要說明的是2021年的公投綁大選的公投案沒有通過這是一個不爭的事實我剛剛跟你報告他的門檻沒有到門檻有沒有到門檻主委這是一個不爭的事實主委有沒有到門檻就是沒有通過沒有到門檻也沒到通過的門檻不通過的門檻嘛沒有沒有對啊所以代表投票數不夠多嘛\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n分流有兩方面的做法,第一個做法叫硬體的改革,硬體的改革就是說我們增設投開票所,從2018的全國一萬五千多個,我們到2024年就一萬七千多個,增加將近兩千個\n同時降低每個投開票所的投票人的人數有效的來降低。另外就是說在管理的部分這個投票的動線我們的選務工作人員是主動的來協助我們每一個選民能夠順利的快速的完成他的投票的整個過程。那大議員有沒有比較好?謝謝大議員的支持大議員有調整有調整所以主委能不能保證\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n如果被綁在一起我就不敢保證了。還是不能保證?綁在一起我就不敢保證了。所以主委你要好好再去檢討,我們現在剛剛在討論的問題請教你就是這些問題。如果不綁在一起我們不要說保證了,我們從2020開始到2024大大小小的選舉已經有多少?我現在要求你就是說,不管有沒有綁在一起,其實台灣你要好好來安排動線,好好提升我們選務人員的數量跟他們的待遇,這樣我相信就不會\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n根本就有一些台灣已經變鳥籠公投根本不能不能公投根本沒辦法實現啊為什麼我想請教現在有沒有人在使用你這個公投這個電子連署系統目前的案子都還沒有走到連署的這個階段都還沒有進到連署的階段如果到了話我跟主委報告就是因為現在整個連署大家認為門檻很高而且很難成案就算成案投票數也不會通過所以本席是可以請教你沒有具體的事證嗎\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n這個我覺得才能讓投票計票的速度增加加快你有沒有在研究這一塊?委員可能也注意到最近美國在總統大選有些州他們的這個開票他們的這個計票開票時間都拖了很長他們說台灣有夠厲害有夠很好又充滿了這個公信大家信任所以我們目前的這個開票計票的這個方式是很多國家很有興趣的\n我們覺得這也是我們選務上的成就,我們會珍惜。」\n最後的一點時間我要跟主委報告主委你非常資深不管從蔡英文政府到愛心德政府你都擔任中選會主委因為現在大家都知道現在最近全民最關注的就是這個大法官的實質廢死案那全民大概大家很多人都對於這個大法官的事現在非常不能認同所以我們當然國民黨團是希望說這個不論是用全民自主用公投案的力量或是\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員吳秉叡等19人擬具《公民投票法第一條條文修正草案》案。\n公投綁大選如果沒有配套的分流措施的話,一定會造成災難。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.309 --> 00:01.651\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n00:11.223 --> 00:23.736\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n\n00:33.866 --> 00:47.009\n本席支持羅智強委員的版本主要就是需要說公投榜大選讓人民的心聲可以讓政府聽到所以我們也可以看一下我們過去公投法的歷史在當時在2003年民國92年的12月31號當時定立公投法的時候在24條就已經有這個條文是說這個中選會應該在公投\n\n01:00.151 --> 01:28.211\n按公告成立後一個月應該得以全國性的選舉是同日舉行其實當時的92年2003年的那個概念就是要公投綁大選可是那時候是用德字就說可以那在2018年的時候那時候民進黨是屬於多數在第23條那時候有有通過民進黨黨團的修法把德字改成英字意思就是把這個公投綁大選的合理性\n\n01:28.951 --> 01:55.116\n再次加強說公投就應該要綁大選因為可以省錢讓人民省時間而且讓投票率變得更高可是沒有想到在2018年的時候那時候投票結果剛剛大家一直有講到十個公投案結果投出來的結果可能當時的民進黨執政黨不是很滿意所以在2019年的時候就修法講說公投現在因為選的不好公投不要綁大選了\n\n01:56.601 --> 01:57.925\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員\n\n02:04.884 --> 02:27.179\n謝謝委員的指教我剛剛已經跟各位報告過就是說2004年我們第一次這個公民投票那個時候是跟大選在一起在2018以前2004以後一共進行了十個案子的公民投票的投票那他是跟選舉綁在一起的選務順遂沒有發生任何的問題\n\n02:28.520 --> 02:42.930\n為什麼到2018年一下子增加了10個公投案就發生問題了那個亂象大家心到現在都還在痛所以一定要去檢討檢討的結果有一個不能夠迴避的問題那就是量太大了\n\n02:58.320 --> 03:06.349\n過去在2018年的時候國民黨黨團有修法要公投綁大選就是因為選舉那時候的選舉選輸了後來才開始臨時大轉彎那我要跟主委報告當時選舉完的時候選舉的結果\n\n03:14.302 --> 03:35.188\n當時2018年的時候10個公投案基本上我們的投票的投票率都是大概55%左右投票人數大概將近1000萬人以上所以我認為這樣的投票是可以參考的可是我們看到在2019年修法過了以後我們合適來租公投榜大選還有藻礁公投\n\n03:36.454 --> 04:02.461\n雖然都不通過可是當然大家很多人說因為沒有通過所以這個公投黨大選不能來看可是要跟主委報告的是公投黨大選不同意的比例只有400多萬人其實兩個選舉的投票數將近差了300多萬人主委你認為這樣子的投票數跟投票率可以代表全民的心聲嗎?如果增加300多萬人的投票數投票的結果會不會有可能改變?就中選會的職責來講投票率這麼低\n\n04:06.527 --> 04:10.301\n數比過去的投票率少了10%。」這是中選會想要看到的結果嗎?\n\n04:11.274 --> 04:37.322\n我想不管是投票率不管是通過與否的這個門檻呢都是公投法所明定的那在這個明定的法制底下所產生的結果我們中選會是予以尊重也希望全民大家共同遵守所以要跟主委報告投票人數降低這麼多投票率下降這麼多可是我們看到在111年當時18歲公民投票的時候那時候中選會又轉彎了為什麼突然又綁大選呢\n\n04:39.983 --> 04:46.907\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n\n05:03.655 --> 05:22.555\n他必須要在一定的時間內完成,同時也配合大院提出的時程公告的這個時程,我們才做那樣子的選務的安排。不是說我們中選會決定要不要,而是根據法律的規定,根據大院的一個提案。\n\n05:23.386 --> 05:50.838\n主委剛剛我們剛剛開始有一個提案委員羅智強委員一開始也提案提到其實時空會轉換民意大家民意會民意如潮水大家會不同的時間會改變所以剛剛羅智強委員說我們最近新的民調有66%的民眾其實現在是支持公投黨大選所以那我要再跟主委請教一下針對當時這個造成的亂象了以後其實監察監察院有提出這個監察委員有提出的建議案\n\n05:51.698 --> 06:06.637\n其實剛剛主委特別提到當時選舉十個公投案造成的亂象有關於選舉動線混亂投票票數不夠多以及選務人員人數不足請問這個主委你現在有沒有辦法有信心\n\n06:07.578 --> 06:23.994\n希望說我們中選會不能無能有沒有辦法把這個投票的這個動線改善以及對我們的選務人員是不是當時有說對選務人員報酬給付跟訓練應該要多一些的資助資源請問主委這邊有沒有做一些改善\n\n06:25.194 --> 06:49.981\n謝謝委員對選務的關心第一點我要說明的是2021年的公投綁大選的公投案沒有通過這是一個不爭的事實我剛剛跟你報告他的門檻沒有到門檻有沒有到門檻主委這是一個不爭的事實主委有沒有到門檻就是沒有通過沒有到門檻也沒到通過的門檻不通過的門檻嘛沒有沒有對啊所以代表投票數不夠多嘛\n\n06:51.161 --> 06:57.304\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n\n07:16.793 --> 07:28.686\n分流有兩方面的做法,第一個做法叫硬體的改革,硬體的改革就是說我們增設投開票所,從2018的全國一萬五千多個,我們到2024年就一萬七千多個,增加將近兩千個\n\n07:35.053 --> 07:59.508\n同時降低每個投開票所的投票人的人數有效的來降低。另外就是說在管理的部分這個投票的動線我們的選務工作人員是主動的來協助我們每一個選民能夠順利的快速的完成他的投票的整個過程。那大議員有沒有比較好?謝謝大議員的支持大議員有調整有調整所以主委能不能保證\n\n08:02.990 --> 08:03.692\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n\n08:10.849 --> 08:39.167\n如果被綁在一起我就不敢保證了。還是不能保證?綁在一起我就不敢保證了。所以主委你要好好再去檢討,我們現在剛剛在討論的問題請教你就是這些問題。如果不綁在一起我們不要說保證了,我們從2020開始到2024大大小小的選舉已經有多少?我現在要求你就是說,不管有沒有綁在一起,其實台灣你要好好來安排動線,好好提升我們選務人員的數量跟他們的待遇,這樣我相信就不會\n\n08:40.007 --> 09:03.792\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n09:07.353 --> 09:34.711\n根本就有一些台灣已經變鳥籠公投根本不能不能公投根本沒辦法實現啊為什麼我想請教現在有沒有人在使用你這個公投這個電子連署系統目前的案子都還沒有走到連署的這個階段都還沒有進到連署的階段如果到了話我跟主委報告就是因為現在整個連署大家認為門檻很高而且很難成案就算成案投票數也不會通過所以本席是可以請教你沒有具體的事證嗎\n\n09:35.672 --> 09:36.353\n三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具\n\n09:46.056 --> 10:13.534\n這個我覺得才能讓投票計票的速度增加加快你有沒有在研究這一塊?委員可能也注意到最近美國在總統大選有些州他們的這個開票他們的這個計票開票時間都拖了很長他們說台灣有夠厲害有夠很好又充滿了這個公信大家信任所以我們目前的這個開票計票的這個方式是很多國家很有興趣的\n\n10:13.874 --> 10:16.830\n我們覺得這也是我們選務上的成就,我們會珍惜。」\n\n10:17.766 --> 10:43.845\n最後的一點時間我要跟主委報告主委你非常資深不管從蔡英文政府到愛心德政府你都擔任中選會主委因為現在大家都知道現在最近全民最關注的就是這個大法官的實質廢死案那全民大概大家很多人都對於這個大法官的事現在非常不能認同所以我們當然國民黨團是希望說這個不論是用全民自主用公投案的力量或是\n\n10:45.486 --> 10:50.228\n第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員吳秉叡等19人擬具《公民投票法第一條條文修正草案》案。\n\n11:09.996 --> 11:15.158\n公投綁大選如果沒有配套的分流措施的話,一定會造成災難。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.309,"end":1.651,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具"},{"start":11.223,"end":23.736,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具公民投票法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":33.866,"end":47.009,"text":"本席支持羅智強委員的版本主要就是需要說公投榜大選讓人民的心聲可以讓政府聽到所以我們也可以看一下我們過去公投法的歷史在當時在2003年民國92年的12月31號當時定立公投法的時候在24條就已經有這個條文是說這個中選會應該在公投"},{"start":60.151,"end":88.211,"text":"按公告成立後一個月應該得以全國性的選舉是同日舉行其實當時的92年2003年的那個概念就是要公投綁大選可是那時候是用德字就說可以那在2018年的時候那時候民進黨是屬於多數在第23條那時候有有通過民進黨黨團的修法把德字改成英字意思就是把這個公投綁大選的合理性"},{"start":88.951,"end":115.116,"text":"再次加強說公投就應該要綁大選因為可以省錢讓人民省時間而且讓投票率變得更高可是沒有想到在2018年的時候那時候投票結果剛剛大家一直有講到十個公投案結果投出來的結果可能當時的民進黨執政黨不是很滿意所以在2019年的時候就修法講說公投現在因為選的不好公投不要綁大選了"},{"start":116.601,"end":117.925,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員"},{"start":124.884,"end":147.179,"text":"謝謝委員的指教我剛剛已經跟各位報告過就是說2004年我們第一次這個公民投票那個時候是跟大選在一起在2018以前2004以後一共進行了十個案子的公民投票的投票那他是跟選舉綁在一起的選務順遂沒有發生任何的問題"},{"start":148.52,"end":162.93,"text":"為什麼到2018年一下子增加了10個公投案就發生問題了那個亂象大家心到現在都還在痛所以一定要去檢討檢討的結果有一個不能夠迴避的問題那就是量太大了"},{"start":178.32,"end":186.349,"text":"過去在2018年的時候國民黨黨團有修法要公投綁大選就是因為選舉那時候的選舉選輸了後來才開始臨時大轉彎那我要跟主委報告當時選舉完的時候選舉的結果"},{"start":194.302,"end":215.188,"text":"當時2018年的時候10個公投案基本上我們的投票的投票率都是大概55%左右投票人數大概將近1000萬人以上所以我認為這樣的投票是可以參考的可是我們看到在2019年修法過了以後我們合適來租公投榜大選還有藻礁公投"},{"start":216.454,"end":242.461,"text":"雖然都不通過可是當然大家很多人說因為沒有通過所以這個公投黨大選不能來看可是要跟主委報告的是公投黨大選不同意的比例只有400多萬人其實兩個選舉的投票數將近差了300多萬人主委你認為這樣子的投票數跟投票率可以代表全民的心聲嗎?如果增加300多萬人的投票數投票的結果會不會有可能改變?就中選會的職責來講投票率這麼低"},{"start":246.527,"end":250.301,"text":"數比過去的投票率少了10%。」這是中選會想要看到的結果嗎?"},{"start":251.274,"end":277.322,"text":"我想不管是投票率不管是通過與否的這個門檻呢都是公投法所明定的那在這個明定的法制底下所產生的結果我們中選會是予以尊重也希望全民大家共同遵守所以要跟主委報告投票人數降低這麼多投票率下降這麼多可是我們看到在111年當時18歲公民投票的時候那時候中選會又轉彎了為什麼突然又綁大選呢"},{"start":279.983,"end":286.907,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":303.655,"end":322.555,"text":"他必須要在一定的時間內完成,同時也配合大院提出的時程公告的這個時程,我們才做那樣子的選務的安排。不是說我們中選會決定要不要,而是根據法律的規定,根據大院的一個提案。"},{"start":323.386,"end":350.838,"text":"主委剛剛我們剛剛開始有一個提案委員羅智強委員一開始也提案提到其實時空會轉換民意大家民意會民意如潮水大家會不同的時間會改變所以剛剛羅智強委員說我們最近新的民調有66%的民眾其實現在是支持公投黨大選所以那我要再跟主委請教一下針對當時這個造成的亂象了以後其實監察監察院有提出這個監察委員有提出的建議案"},{"start":351.698,"end":366.637,"text":"其實剛剛主委特別提到當時選舉十個公投案造成的亂象有關於選舉動線混亂投票票數不夠多以及選務人員人數不足請問這個主委你現在有沒有辦法有信心"},{"start":367.578,"end":383.994,"text":"希望說我們中選會不能無能有沒有辦法把這個投票的這個動線改善以及對我們的選務人員是不是當時有說對選務人員報酬給付跟訓練應該要多一些的資助資源請問主委這邊有沒有做一些改善"},{"start":385.194,"end":409.981,"text":"謝謝委員對選務的關心第一點我要說明的是2021年的公投綁大選的公投案沒有通過這是一個不爭的事實我剛剛跟你報告他的門檻沒有到門檻有沒有到門檻主委這是一個不爭的事實主委有沒有到門檻就是沒有通過沒有到門檻也沒到通過的門檻不通過的門檻嘛沒有沒有對啊所以代表投票數不夠多嘛"},{"start":411.161,"end":417.304,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":436.793,"end":448.686,"text":"分流有兩方面的做法,第一個做法叫硬體的改革,硬體的改革就是說我們增設投開票所,從2018的全國一萬五千多個,我們到2024年就一萬七千多個,增加將近兩千個"},{"start":455.053,"end":479.508,"text":"同時降低每個投開票所的投票人的人數有效的來降低。另外就是說在管理的部分這個投票的動線我們的選務工作人員是主動的來協助我們每一個選民能夠順利的快速的完成他的投票的整個過程。那大議員有沒有比較好?謝謝大議員的支持大議員有調整有調整所以主委能不能保證"},{"start":482.99,"end":483.692,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具"},{"start":490.849,"end":519.167,"text":"如果被綁在一起我就不敢保證了。還是不能保證?綁在一起我就不敢保證了。所以主委你要好好再去檢討,我們現在剛剛在討論的問題請教你就是這些問題。如果不綁在一起我們不要說保證了,我們從2020開始到2024大大小小的選舉已經有多少?我現在要求你就是說,不管有沒有綁在一起,其實台灣你要好好來安排動線,好好提升我們選務人員的數量跟他們的待遇,這樣我相信就不會"},{"start":520.007,"end":543.792,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":547.353,"end":574.711,"text":"根本就有一些台灣已經變鳥籠公投根本不能不能公投根本沒辦法實現啊為什麼我想請教現在有沒有人在使用你這個公投這個電子連署系統目前的案子都還沒有走到連署的這個階段都還沒有進到連署的階段如果到了話我跟主委報告就是因為現在整個連署大家認為門檻很高而且很難成案就算成案投票數也不會通過所以本席是可以請教你沒有具體的事證嗎"},{"start":575.672,"end":576.353,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具"},{"start":586.056,"end":613.534,"text":"這個我覺得才能讓投票計票的速度增加加快你有沒有在研究這一塊?委員可能也注意到最近美國在總統大選有些州他們的這個開票他們的這個計票開票時間都拖了很長他們說台灣有夠厲害有夠很好又充滿了這個公信大家信任所以我們目前的這個開票計票的這個方式是很多國家很有興趣的"},{"start":613.874,"end":616.83,"text":"我們覺得這也是我們選務上的成就,我們會珍惜。」"},{"start":617.766,"end":643.845,"text":"最後的一點時間我要跟主委報告主委你非常資深不管從蔡英文政府到愛心德政府你都擔任中選會主委因為現在大家都知道現在最近全民最關注的就是這個大法官的實質廢死案那全民大概大家很多人都對於這個大法官的事現在非常不能認同所以我們當然國民黨團是希望說這個不論是用全民自主用公投案的力量或是"},{"start":645.486,"end":650.228,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員吳秉叡等19人擬具《公民投票法第一條條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":669.996,"end":675.158,"text":"公投綁大選如果沒有配套的分流措施的話,一定會造成災難。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":415,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（10時19分）主席好，各位委員、各位媒體先進、各位官員，大家早安。有請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["張委員智倫：主委好。今天我們大家討論的是有關於公投法的修法，先跟主委分享一下，公投法第一條明載了公投法的目的在憲法主權在民的原則，為確保民權的行使，所以我們特別制定公投法。我們可以來看一下公投法這次修法的重點，本席支持羅智強委員的版本，主要就是公投需要綁大選，讓人民的心聲可以讓政府聽到。","主委，我們可以看一下過去公投法的歷史，在2003年（民國92年）12月31號，當時制定公投法的時候，在第二十四條就已經有這樣的條文，規定「中央選舉委員會應於公民投票案公告成立後一個月起……並得與全國性之選舉同日舉行」，其實當時在92年（2003年）的那個概念就是要公投綁大選，可是那時候是用「得」字，就是說可以。在2018年的時候，那時候民進黨是屬於多數，當時第二十三條有通過民進黨黨團的修法，把「得」字改成「應」字，意思就是把公投綁大選的合理性再次加強，認為公投就應該要綁大選，因為可以省錢，讓人民省時間，而且讓投票率變得更高。可是沒有想到2018年那時候的投票結果，剛剛大家一直有提到的10個公投案，當時投出來的結果可能當時的執政黨民進黨不是很滿意，所以在2019年的時候就修法，因為選得不好，就主張公投不要綁大選了。我想要請教主委，你覺得這樣子的作法是不是有違背過去的立法目的─公投應該要綁大選？"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員的指教，我剛剛已經跟各位報告過，2004年我們第一次公民投票，那個時候是跟大選在一起，在2004以後到2018以前，一共進行了10個公民投票案的投票，是跟選舉綁在一起的，選務順遂，沒有發生任何的問題。為什麼到2018年一下子增加了10個公投案就發生問題了，那個亂象大家心到現在都還在痛，所以一定要去檢討，檢討的結果，有一個不能夠迴避的問題，那就是量太大了，超過選務機關的負荷……"],["張委員智倫：好，主委，我等一下才要詢問你量太大的部分……"],["李主任委員進勇：所以要分流。"],["張委員智倫：第一個我要跟主委報告的是說，這個就是跟過去的修法目的一樣，過去一開始我們的法令就是希望公投應該綁大選，民進黨黨團過去，我剛剛跟您報告過，在2018年的時候，國民黨黨團也修法要公投綁大選，就是因為那時候的選舉選輸了，後來才開始臨時大轉彎。我要跟主委報告，當時選舉完的選舉結果，當時2018年的那10個公投案，基本上，我們投票的投票率都是大概55%左右，投票人數將近大概1,000萬人以上，所以我認為這樣的投票是可以參考的。可是我們看到在2019年修法過了以後，我們核四、萊豬公投綁大選，還有藻礁公投，雖然都不通過，可是大家很多人說，因為沒有通過，所以這個公投綁大選不能來看，可是要跟主委報告的是，公投綁大選不同意的比率只有四百多萬人，兩個選舉的投票數將近差了三百多萬人，主委認為這樣的投票數跟投票率可以代表全民的心聲嗎？如果增加了三百多萬人的投票數，投票的結果會不會有可能改變？就中選會的職責來講，投票率這麼低，投票數比過去的投票率少了10%，這是中選會想要看到的結果嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：我想不管是投票率，不管是通過與否的門檻，都是公投法所明定的，在這個明定的法制底下所產生的結果，我們中選會是予以尊重，也希望全民大家共同遵守。"],["張委員智倫：所以要跟主委報告，投票人數降低這麼多，投票率下降這麼多，可是我們看到在111年有關18歲公民權的投票的時候，那時候中選會又轉彎了，為什麼突然又綁大選了？所以那時候的投票率高達將近60%……"],["李主任委員進勇：那是一個特殊的……"],["張委員智倫：所以本席希望中選會的主委不能做民進黨的打手，不能幫民進黨護航……"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有，我們……"],["張委員智倫：有時候想綁大選就綁大選，不想綁大選就不綁大選……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們只為法律來服務，至於18歲公民權的部分，那是根據憲法的規定，必須要在一定的時間之內完成，同時配合……"],["張委員智倫：可是它有沒有規定一定要綁大選？"],["李主任委員進勇：也配合大院，配合大院提出的時程、公告的時程，我們才做那樣子的選務安排，不是我們中選會決定要不要，而是根據法律的規定，根據大院的提案。"],["張委員智倫：主委，剛剛有一個提案委員──羅智強委員在一開始的提案說明也提到，其實時空會轉換，民意如潮水，在不同的時間會改變，所以剛剛羅智強委員說，我們最近新的民調顯示有66%的民眾現在也是支持公投綁大選。我要再跟主委請教一下，針對當時造成了亂象以後，監察院的監察委員有提出建議案，其實剛剛主委也特別提到當時10個公投案造成的亂象，包括選舉動線混亂、投開票所投票處不夠多以及選務人員人數不足。請問主委，你現在有沒有辦法、有沒有信心？我希望我們中選會不能無能，你有沒有辦法把投票的動線改善？至於我們的選務人員，當時有提到對於選務選務人員的報酬給付跟訓練應該要多一點的資助、支援，請問主委對於這些部分有沒有做一些改善？"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員對於選務的關心，第一點我要說明的是，2021年的公投綁大選的公投案沒有通過，這是一個不爭的事實……"],["張委員智倫：可是主委，我剛剛有跟你報告，它的門檻沒有到門檻，有沒有到門檻，主委？"],["李主任委員進勇：這是一個不爭的事實，我們予以尊重。"],["張委員智倫：主委，有沒有到門檻？"],["李主任委員進勇：就是沒有通過啊！"],["張委員智倫：有沒有到門檻？也沒到不通過的門檻嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有，沒有通過……"],["張委員智倫：對啊，所以代表投票數不夠多嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：那就是一個不通過嘛，結果是這樣。"],["張委員智倫：所以沒有辦法代表全民，差了三百多萬人要出來投票啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：好，這是一個問題，我們認為它是一個不爭的事實。"],["張委員智倫：主委，你還沒回答我，現在對於選務的整個流程、選務人員的薪資跟未來的訓練，中選會在這幾年到底有沒有來做努力？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們的選務改革，在2018以後，最重要的一個精神還是在分流，還是在做分流，分流有兩方面的作法，第一個作法叫硬體的改革，硬體的改革就是說，我們增設投開票所，從2018在全國有一萬五千多個到2024年有一萬七千多個，增加將近二千個，同時降低每個投開票所的投票人數，有效地來降低。另外就是在管理的部分，針對投票的動線，我們的選務工作人員是主動地來協助我們每一個選民能夠順利地、快速地完成他投票的整個過程。"],["張委員智倫：那待遇呢？待遇院有沒有比較好？"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝大院的支持，待遇有調整了，雖然我們的選務人員……"],["張委員智倫：有調整了，所以主委能不能保證，在你擔任主委的期間，未來這種邊投票邊開票、投票時大家排隊排很長的這個情況可以改善？"],["李主任委員進勇：如果又被綁在一起，我就不敢保證了。"],["張委員智倫：還是不能保證？"],["李主任委員進勇：綁在一起，我就不敢保證。"],["張委員智倫：所以主委，你要好好再去檢討，我們剛剛討論及請教你的就是這些問題啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：如果不綁在一起，我們不要說保證啦，我們從2020開始到2024，大大小小的選舉已經辦過多少，都是非常的順利……"],["張委員智倫：主委，我現在要求你的就是說，不管有沒有綁在一起，你都要好好來安排動線，好好提升我們選務人員的數量及他們的待遇，這樣我相信就不會卡在一起。"],["李主任委員進勇：我作為一個中選會的主任委員，雖然我不會再碰到大選是不是會綁的問題，但是我為我們所有選務工作人員的心聲，我必須要請各位委員能夠審慎……"],["張委員智倫：請主委繼續加油！接下來還有一個問題，剛剛你提到一個特別的點，我也很好奇，在113年4月10號有建置全國性公民投票電子連署系統且上線，我想請教一下，現在根本臺灣就已經變鳥籠公投，公投根本沒辦法實現，為什麼？我想請教，現在有沒有人在使用你這個公投電子連署系統？"],["李主任委員進勇：目前的案子都還沒有走到連署的這個階段。"],["張委員智倫：都還沒有進到連署的階段？"],["李主任委員進勇：如果到的話都可以使用……"],["張委員智倫：我跟主委報告，就是因為現在整個連署，大家認為門檻很高，而且很難成案，就算成案，投票數也不會通過，所以本席是不是可以請教你……"],["李主任委員進勇：這個沒有具體的事證啦！"],["張委員智倫：本席請教你，未來公投投票完了以後是不是有辦法電子計票？我知道你們常常有去國外考察，我覺得這個才能讓開票、計票的速度增加、加快，你有沒有在研究這一塊？"],["李主任委員進勇：委員可能也注意到，最近美國在總統大選，有些州開票、計票的時間都拖了很長，他們說臺灣有夠厲害，效果很好，又充滿了公信，大家信任，所以我們目前的開票、計票的方式是很多國家很有興趣的，我們覺得這也是我們選務上的成就，我們會珍惜。"],["張委員智倫：好，最後一點時間，我要跟主委報告，主委非常資深，不管從蔡英文政府到現在賴清德政府，你都擔任中選會主委，現在大家都知道，最近全民最關注的就是大法官的實質廢死案，很多人都對於大法官的釋憲案非常不能認同，我們國民黨團是希望，不論是用全民自主、用公投案的力量，讓人民的力量可以透過公投的機會，讓不管是政治人物、大法官或政府能聆聽到，所以我們希望能夠公投綁大選，第一個省時、省錢，而且讓投票率提高，而且可以讓全民的好朋友一起去參與，不管在任何的議題上，希望大家可以讓全民的聲音讓我們政府來聽見，未來我們一起努力。謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：公投綁大選，如果沒有配套的分流措施的話，它一定會造成災難。"],["張委員智倫：主委，分流的措施，你是主委，你要來處理，好不好？你是行政單位，你一定要來處理！"],["李主任委員進勇：在制度上必須要有所規劃。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員。","接下來請麥玉珍委員，麥玉珍委員詢答完畢之後休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-7","speakers":["徐欣瑩","羅智強","麥玉珍","賴士葆","張宏陸","李柏毅","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","黃捷","許宇甄","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","翁曉玲","高金素梅"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查委員賴士葆等19人擬\n具「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員吳秉叡等21人擬具「公民投票法部分\n條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員羅智強等 18 人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」\n案；五、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公民投票法第二十一條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139301_00001"}}}