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\"end\": 503.942, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 503.942, \"end\": 503.962, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 503.962, \"end\": 503.982, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 503.982, \"end\": 504.003, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 504.003, \"end\": 504.104, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 504.104, \"end\": 504.124, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 504.124, \"end\": 504.144, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:01,350\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具〈公民投票法部分條文〉案。\n\n2\n00:00:20,980 --> 00:00:46,050\n選政的部分是由內政部來主管是啦是內政部主導但選政可能也是我們中選會也是多多少少要考量吧沒有問題我們跟內政部配合的很好對嘛所以我在這邊就是說這個中選會是獨立的機構不管啦這個分老或什麼其實中選會最重要的工作\n\n3\n00:00:46,710 --> 00:01:13,900\n就是把選舉辦好沒有瑕疵公平的一個選舉而已吧我相信這個主委你也是當過縣市的選委會的主委你也是有第一線的辦選舉的經驗所以我在這邊我先請教一個問題就是說如果公投這個把所有的案子\n\n4\n00:01:15,285 --> 00:01:30,933\n印在一張你覺得好投嗎?這個從幾個面向來檢討第一個就是說我們選民的投票的習慣過去幾十年來大家就這樣一張一張一張一張這樣那你強強要把它蓋蓋這十幾個案子在一張選票上面的確在適應上可能會有問題這是第一個\n\n5\n00:01:40,858 --> 00:02:05,797\n第二、在我們開票作業的部分,恐怕也會發生問題,而這個問題是更嚴重的問題,因為我們現在的開票的標準程序是檢票記證,就是說要公開就對了,我每開一張票,要讓在現場的人甚至於是在直播的人很清楚的看到你是投哪一個案子,你的投這個開出來的結果到底是怎麼樣。\n\n6\n00:02:06,678 --> 00:02:24,918\n一張一張清楚明瞭,不會有發生混淆的狀況。如果是一整排十幾個案子,你現在到底在檢討一個案,沒人知道會死到什麼時候。所以這樣就引起投票開票過程的一個紛爭。再一個可能發生的現象,\n\n7\n00:02:25,999 --> 00:02:33,064\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n8\n00:02:55,518 --> 00:03:11,398\n但是在人工開票的情況之下像澳洲他就是一個案子一張票清楚明瞭那也沒有發生說什麼這個這個這個速度要拖很久這樣子的問題所以我們還是希望大院能夠支持現有的辦法\n\n9\n00:03:12,893 --> 00:03:35,875\n我再請教主委就以你舉美國的例子像美國的公民投票美國人家是可以預先投票的預先投票他有去投票票所嗎所以這個就是所謂分流的方式之一不是我先請教主委我預先投票的人他需要去投票所領票在投票所當場去投票嗎\n\n10\n00:03:36,636 --> 00:03:46,923\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n\n11\n00:04:05,917 --> 00:04:19,226\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n\n12\n00:04:32,034 --> 00:04:32,615\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n13\n00:04:50,336 --> 00:05:13,305\n所以在這個相關分流的配套裡面有一個辦法就是限制公投票的案數了成案數那這一點也是應該要予以重視這個是另外一個議題我們先講技術性我們的技術性我們明明就可以看得出來有這麼大的問題這個是給第一線在投開票所的同仁\n\n14\n00:05:14,045 --> 00:05:39,661\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。九、審查委員羅智強等\n\n15\n00:05:42,927 --> 00:05:44,229\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n16\n00:06:00,435 --> 00:06:02,817\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n17\n00:06:20,209 --> 00:06:35,569\n對,就是說有一些這個選務上可能的疏漏的地方其實最重要的就是說我們都能夠當場有一個doublecheck能夠發現及時發現及時更正那如果說這個更正的效率沒有提的很高的話就會耽誤到我們整個選舉的時程\n\n18\n00:06:37,130 --> 00:06:39,451\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n19\n00:06:56,536 --> 00:07:21,151\n選票物質開票的物質的情況會發生但你同樣的你不管你是你如果公投跟大選在一起我跟你講選務人員的壓力更大對不對那他如何去精確的計票我覺得是一個很大的問題而且現場有任何一個民眾你要公開那種票他如果提出異議提出有問題我們要把處理\n\n20\n00:07:22,642 --> 00:07:24,243\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n21\n00:07:50,681 --> 00:08:14,781\n所以我覺得有幾個像這一些問題的話主委你們應該把它整理出來我們在討論法條的時候其實你要讓所有的參與討論的委員知道有哪些不是說我們不要去做是有哪些目前實際上的狀況其實是很難處理的這個我覺得你要讓所有委員知道我們會加強說明謝謝委員\n\n22\n00:08:23,780 --> 00:08:24,144\n第三十條條文修正草案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t1350\t三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具〈公民投票法部分條文〉案。\n20980\t46050\t選政的部分是由內政部來主管是啦是內政部主導但選政可能也是我們中選會也是多多少少要考量吧沒有問題我們跟內政部配合的很好對嘛所以我在這邊就是說這個中選會是獨立的機構不管啦這個分老或什麼其實中選會最重要的工作\n46710\t73900\t就是把選舉辦好沒有瑕疵公平的一個選舉而已吧我相信這個主委你也是當過縣市的選委會的主委你也是有第一線的辦選舉的經驗所以我在這邊我先請教一個問題就是說如果公投這個把所有的案子\n75285\t90933\t印在一張你覺得好投嗎?這個從幾個面向來檢討第一個就是說我們選民的投票的習慣過去幾十年來大家就這樣一張一張一張一張這樣那你強強要把它蓋蓋這十幾個案子在一張選票上面的確在適應上可能會有問題這是第一個\n100858\t125797\t第二、在我們開票作業的部分,恐怕也會發生問題,而這個問題是更嚴重的問題,因為我們現在的開票的標準程序是檢票記證,就是說要公開就對了,我每開一張票,要讓在現場的人甚至於是在直播的人很清楚的看到你是投哪一個案子,你的投這個開出來的結果到底是怎麼樣。\n126678\t144918\t一張一張清楚明瞭,不會有發生混淆的狀況。如果是一整排十幾個案子,你現在到底在檢討一個案,沒人知道會死到什麼時候。所以這樣就引起投票開票過程的一個紛爭。再一個可能發生的現象,\n145999\t153064\t三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n175518\t191398\t但是在人工開票的情況之下像澳洲他就是一個案子一張票清楚明瞭那也沒有發生說什麼這個這個這個速度要拖很久這樣子的問題所以我們還是希望大院能夠支持現有的辦法\n192893\t215875\t我再請教主委就以你舉美國的例子像美國的公民投票美國人家是可以預先投票的預先投票他有去投票票所嗎所以這個就是所謂分流的方式之一不是我先請教主委我預先投票的人他需要去投票所領票在投票所當場去投票嗎\n216636\t226923\t三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n245917\t259226\t三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n272034\t272615\t三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n290336\t313305\t所以在這個相關分流的配套裡面有一個辦法就是限制公投票的案數了成案數那這一點也是應該要予以重視這個是另外一個議題我們先講技術性我們的技術性我們明明就可以看得出來有這麼大的問題這個是給第一線在投開票所的同仁\n314045\t339661\t第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。九、審查委員羅智強等\n342927\t344229\t第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n360435\t362817\t第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n380209\t395569\t對,就是說有一些這個選務上可能的疏漏的地方其實最重要的就是說我們都能夠當場有一個double check能夠發現及時發現及時更正那如果說這個更正的效率沒有提的很高的話就會耽誤到我們整個選舉的時程\n397130\t399451\t第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n416536\t441151\t選票物質開票的物質的情況會發生但你同樣的你不管你是你如果公投跟大選在一起我跟你講選務人員的壓力更大對不對那他如何去精確的計票我覺得是一個很大的問題而且現場有任何一個民眾你要公開那種票他如果提出異議提出有問題我們要把處理\n442642\t444243\t第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n470681\t494781\t所以我覺得有幾個像這一些問題的話主委你們應該把它整理出來我們在討論法條的時候其實你要讓所有的參與討論的委員知道有哪些不是說我們不要去做是有哪些目前實際上的狀況其實是很難處理的這個我覺得你要讓所有委員知道我們會加強說明謝謝委員\n503780\t504144\t第三十條條文修正草案案。\n","txt":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具〈公民投票法部分條文〉案。\n選政的部分是由內政部來主管是啦是內政部主導但選政可能也是我們中選會也是多多少少要考量吧沒有問題我們跟內政部配合的很好對嘛所以我在這邊就是說這個中選會是獨立的機構不管啦這個分老或什麼其實中選會最重要的工作\n就是把選舉辦好沒有瑕疵公平的一個選舉而已吧我相信這個主委你也是當過縣市的選委會的主委你也是有第一線的辦選舉的經驗所以我在這邊我先請教一個問題就是說如果公投這個把所有的案子\n印在一張你覺得好投嗎?這個從幾個面向來檢討第一個就是說我們選民的投票的習慣過去幾十年來大家就這樣一張一張一張一張這樣那你強強要把它蓋蓋這十幾個案子在一張選票上面的確在適應上可能會有問題這是第一個\n第二、在我們開票作業的部分,恐怕也會發生問題,而這個問題是更嚴重的問題,因為我們現在的開票的標準程序是檢票記證,就是說要公開就對了,我每開一張票,要讓在現場的人甚至於是在直播的人很清楚的看到你是投哪一個案子,你的投這個開出來的結果到底是怎麼樣。\n一張一張清楚明瞭,不會有發生混淆的狀況。如果是一整排十幾個案子,你現在到底在檢討一個案,沒人知道會死到什麼時候。所以這樣就引起投票開票過程的一個紛爭。再一個可能發生的現象,\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n但是在人工開票的情況之下像澳洲他就是一個案子一張票清楚明瞭那也沒有發生說什麼這個這個這個速度要拖很久這樣子的問題所以我們還是希望大院能夠支持現有的辦法\n我再請教主委就以你舉美國的例子像美國的公民投票美國人家是可以預先投票的預先投票他有去投票票所嗎所以這個就是所謂分流的方式之一不是我先請教主委我預先投票的人他需要去投票所領票在投票所當場去投票嗎\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n所以在這個相關分流的配套裡面有一個辦法就是限制公投票的案數了成案數那這一點也是應該要予以重視這個是另外一個議題我們先講技術性我們的技術性我們明明就可以看得出來有這麼大的問題這個是給第一線在投開票所的同仁\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。九、審查委員羅智強等\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n對,就是說有一些這個選務上可能的疏漏的地方其實最重要的就是說我們都能夠當場有一個double check能夠發現及時發現及時更正那如果說這個更正的效率沒有提的很高的話就會耽誤到我們整個選舉的時程\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n選票物質開票的物質的情況會發生但你同樣的你不管你是你如果公投跟大選在一起我跟你講選務人員的壓力更大對不對那他如何去精確的計票我覺得是一個很大的問題而且現場有任何一個民眾你要公開那種票他如果提出異議提出有問題我們要把處理\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n所以我覺得有幾個像這一些問題的話主委你們應該把它整理出來我們在討論法條的時候其實你要讓所有的參與討論的委員知道有哪些不是說我們不要去做是有哪些目前實際上的狀況其實是很難處理的這個我覺得你要讓所有委員知道我們會加強說明謝謝委員\n第三十條條文修正草案案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:01.350\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具〈公民投票法部分條文〉案。\n\n00:20.980 --> 00:46.050\n選政的部分是由內政部來主管是啦是內政部主導但選政可能也是我們中選會也是多多少少要考量吧沒有問題我們跟內政部配合的很好對嘛所以我在這邊就是說這個中選會是獨立的機構不管啦這個分老或什麼其實中選會最重要的工作\n\n00:46.710 --> 01:13.900\n就是把選舉辦好沒有瑕疵公平的一個選舉而已吧我相信這個主委你也是當過縣市的選委會的主委你也是有第一線的辦選舉的經驗所以我在這邊我先請教一個問題就是說如果公投這個把所有的案子\n\n01:15.285 --> 01:30.933\n印在一張你覺得好投嗎?這個從幾個面向來檢討第一個就是說我們選民的投票的習慣過去幾十年來大家就這樣一張一張一張一張這樣那你強強要把它蓋蓋這十幾個案子在一張選票上面的確在適應上可能會有問題這是第一個\n\n01:40.858 --> 02:05.797\n第二、在我們開票作業的部分,恐怕也會發生問題,而這個問題是更嚴重的問題,因為我們現在的開票的標準程序是檢票記證,就是說要公開就對了,我每開一張票,要讓在現場的人甚至於是在直播的人很清楚的看到你是投哪一個案子,你的投這個開出來的結果到底是怎麼樣。\n\n02:06.678 --> 02:24.918\n一張一張清楚明瞭,不會有發生混淆的狀況。如果是一整排十幾個案子,你現在到底在檢討一個案,沒人知道會死到什麼時候。所以這樣就引起投票開票過程的一個紛爭。再一個可能發生的現象,\n\n02:25.999 --> 02:33.064\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n02:55.518 --> 03:11.398\n但是在人工開票的情況之下像澳洲他就是一個案子一張票清楚明瞭那也沒有發生說什麼這個這個這個速度要拖很久這樣子的問題所以我們還是希望大院能夠支持現有的辦法\n\n03:12.893 --> 03:35.875\n我再請教主委就以你舉美國的例子像美國的公民投票美國人家是可以預先投票的預先投票他有去投票票所嗎所以這個就是所謂分流的方式之一不是我先請教主委我預先投票的人他需要去投票所領票在投票所當場去投票嗎\n\n03:36.636 --> 03:46.923\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。\n\n04:05.917 --> 04:19.226\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。\n\n04:32.034 --> 04:32.615\n三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n04:50.336 --> 05:13.305\n所以在這個相關分流的配套裡面有一個辦法就是限制公投票的案數了成案數那這一點也是應該要予以重視這個是另外一個議題我們先講技術性我們的技術性我們明明就可以看得出來有這麼大的問題這個是給第一線在投開票所的同仁\n\n05:14.045 --> 05:39.661\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。九、審查委員羅智強等\n\n05:42.927 --> 05:44.229\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n06:00.435 --> 06:02.817\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n06:20.209 --> 06:35.569\n對,就是說有一些這個選務上可能的疏漏的地方其實最重要的就是說我們都能夠當場有一個doublecheck能夠發現及時發現及時更正那如果說這個更正的效率沒有提的很高的話就會耽誤到我們整個選舉的時程\n\n06:37.130 --> 06:39.451\n第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n06:56.536 --> 07:21.151\n選票物質開票的物質的情況會發生但你同樣的你不管你是你如果公投跟大選在一起我跟你講選務人員的壓力更大對不對那他如何去精確的計票我覺得是一個很大的問題而且現場有任何一個民眾你要公開那種票他如果提出異議提出有問題我們要把處理\n\n07:22.642 --> 07:24.243\n第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具\n\n07:50.681 --> 08:14.781\n所以我覺得有幾個像這一些問題的話主委你們應該把它整理出來我們在討論法條的時候其實你要讓所有的參與討論的委員知道有哪些不是說我們不要去做是有哪些目前實際上的狀況其實是很難處理的這個我覺得你要讓所有委員知道我們會加強說明謝謝委員\n\n08:23.780 --> 08:24.144\n第三十條條文修正草案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":1.35,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具〈公民投票法部分條文〉案。"},{"start":20.98,"end":46.05,"text":"選政的部分是由內政部來主管是啦是內政部主導但選政可能也是我們中選會也是多多少少要考量吧沒有問題我們跟內政部配合的很好對嘛所以我在這邊就是說這個中選會是獨立的機構不管啦這個分老或什麼其實中選會最重要的工作"},{"start":46.71,"end":73.9,"text":"就是把選舉辦好沒有瑕疵公平的一個選舉而已吧我相信這個主委你也是當過縣市的選委會的主委你也是有第一線的辦選舉的經驗所以我在這邊我先請教一個問題就是說如果公投這個把所有的案子"},{"start":75.285,"end":90.933,"text":"印在一張你覺得好投嗎?這個從幾個面向來檢討第一個就是說我們選民的投票的習慣過去幾十年來大家就這樣一張一張一張一張這樣那你強強要把它蓋蓋這十幾個案子在一張選票上面的確在適應上可能會有問題這是第一個"},{"start":100.858,"end":125.797,"text":"第二、在我們開票作業的部分,恐怕也會發生問題,而這個問題是更嚴重的問題,因為我們現在的開票的標準程序是檢票記證,就是說要公開就對了,我每開一張票,要讓在現場的人甚至於是在直播的人很清楚的看到你是投哪一個案子,你的投這個開出來的結果到底是怎麼樣。"},{"start":126.678,"end":144.918,"text":"一張一張清楚明瞭,不會有發生混淆的狀況。如果是一整排十幾個案子,你現在到底在檢討一個案,沒人知道會死到什麼時候。所以這樣就引起投票開票過程的一個紛爭。再一個可能發生的現象,"},{"start":145.999,"end":153.064,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":175.518,"end":191.398,"text":"但是在人工開票的情況之下像澳洲他就是一個案子一張票清楚明瞭那也沒有發生說什麼這個這個這個速度要拖很久這樣子的問題所以我們還是希望大院能夠支持現有的辦法"},{"start":192.893,"end":215.875,"text":"我再請教主委就以你舉美國的例子像美國的公民投票美國人家是可以預先投票的預先投票他有去投票票所嗎所以這個就是所謂分流的方式之一不是我先請教主委我預先投票的人他需要去投票所領票在投票所當場去投票嗎"},{"start":216.636,"end":226.923,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具《公民投票法》案。"},{"start":245.917,"end":259.226,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":272.034,"end":272.615,"text":"三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具"},{"start":290.336,"end":313.305,"text":"所以在這個相關分流的配套裡面有一個辦法就是限制公投票的案數了成案數那這一點也是應該要予以重視這個是另外一個議題我們先講技術性我們的技術性我們明明就可以看得出來有這麼大的問題這個是給第一線在投開票所的同仁"},{"start":314.045,"end":339.661,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。五、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。六、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。七、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。八、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具:「公民投票法部分條文修正草案。九、審查委員羅智強等"},{"start":342.927,"end":344.229,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具"},{"start":360.435,"end":362.817,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具"},{"start":380.209,"end":395.569,"text":"對,就是說有一些這個選務上可能的疏漏的地方其實最重要的就是說我們都能夠當場有一個double check能夠發現及時發現及時更正那如果說這個更正的效率沒有提的很高的話就會耽誤到我們整個選舉的時程"},{"start":397.13,"end":399.451,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具"},{"start":416.536,"end":441.151,"text":"選票物質開票的物質的情況會發生但你同樣的你不管你是你如果公投跟大選在一起我跟你講選務人員的壓力更大對不對那他如何去精確的計票我覺得是一個很大的問題而且現場有任何一個民眾你要公開那種票他如果提出異議提出有問題我們要把處理"},{"start":442.642,"end":444.243,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具"},{"start":470.681,"end":494.781,"text":"所以我覺得有幾個像這一些問題的話主委你們應該把它整理出來我們在討論法條的時候其實你要讓所有的參與討論的委員知道有哪些不是說我們不要去做是有哪些目前實際上的狀況其實是很難處理的這個我覺得你要讓所有委員知道我們會加強說明謝謝委員"},{"start":503.78,"end":504.144,"text":"第三十條條文修正草案案。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":538,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（10時48分）我請李主委。"],["主席：好，請李主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，其實中選會應該是獨立機關吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["張委員宏陸：中選會當然有選務跟選政兩方面，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：選政的部分是由內政部來主管。"],["張委員宏陸：是啦，是內政部主導，但選政方面中選會也是多多少少要考量吧！"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有問題，我們跟內政部配合得很好。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！所以我在這邊就是說，中選會是獨立的機構，不管紛擾或什麼，其實中選會最重要的工作就是把選舉辦好，讓它是沒有瑕疵、公平的一個選舉而已吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["張委員宏陸：主委也當過縣市的選委會主委，有在第一線辦理選舉的經驗，所以我先請教一個問題，就是如果公投把所有的案子印在一張，你覺得好投嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：這個從幾個面向來檢討，第一個就是我們選民的投票習慣，過去幾十年來大家就是這樣一張一案，如果突然要改成十幾個案子在一張選票上面，的確在適應上可能會有問題，這是第一個。第二個，在我們的開票作業的部分恐怕也會發生問題，而這個問題是更嚴重的問題，因為我們現在開票的標準程序是檢唱記整，就是要公開就對了，我每開一張票，要讓在現場的人，甚至於是在直播的人很清楚地看到你是投哪一個案子，然後開出來的結果到底是怎麼樣，一張一張清楚明瞭，不會有發生混淆的狀況。如果是一整排十幾個案子，你現在到底在唸哪一個案子沒有人知道，會搞得「霧嗄嗄」，所以這樣就引起開票過程的一個紛爭。再一個可能發生的現象，十幾案裡面結果有一案或兩案可能是無效票，牽涉到無效票的部分，到底會不會去影響到其他不同案件的認定，這也是一個很重要的問題。所以我剛剛有特別提到，就外國的立法例來講，在電子開票的國家像美國，它是可以一張公民投票有好幾個案子，因為是電子投票，但是在人工開票的情況之下，像澳洲它就是一個案子一張票，清楚明瞭，也沒有發生什麼速度要拖很久這樣子的問題，所以我們還是希望大院能夠支持現有的辦法。"],["張委員宏陸：那我再請教主委，就以你舉美國的例子，像美國的公民投票，美國人家是可以預先投票的。"],["李主任委員進勇：對。"],["張委員宏陸：預先投票他有去投開票所嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：所以這個就是所謂分流的方式。"],["張委員宏陸：不是，我先請教主委，預先投票的人，他需要去投票所領票，在投票所當場去投票嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：有些國家是會先寄給你，要登記。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！所以他在投票的時候，預先投票的話，他應該沒有時間壓力吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有時間壓力。"],["張委員宏陸：對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：地方很多，一個地方也許有十幾個投入箱的設置地點，時間也拉很長，投票的地方會有很多的選擇。"],["張委員宏陸：他可以很冷靜地去思考，比如說十幾個案子，他可以認真的看，看完再去蓋……"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有問題。"],["張委員宏陸：對不對？國外就是這樣。"],["李主任委員進勇：他們時間很充裕，時間很充裕。"],["張委員宏陸：我們如果是十幾個案子，後面一堆人在排隊，他有時間思考嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有錯，聽說過去有人進去，半個多小時還不出來。"],["張委員宏陸：不是，他不是不出來……"],["李主任委員進勇：對啦！就是在看……"],["張委員宏陸：他要看啊！對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：對。"],["張委員宏陸：他也怕蓋錯啊！對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員宏陸：人家是預先投票，可以有這個時間思考，我們如果要在短短的一天，我覺得這個一定是到7、8點吧！"],["李主任委員進勇：所以在相關分流的配套裡面，有一個辦法就是限制公投票的成案數，這一點也是應該要予以重視。"],["張委員宏陸：這個是另外一個議題，我們先講技術性，我們明明就可以看得出來有這麼大的問題，這個會給第一線在投開票所的同仁很大的壓力，你到時候可能也找不到人要去當選務人員，對不對？選務人員的壓力很大，我舉個例子，這次的選舉簡單啊！對不對？這次只有總統跟立委的選舉，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員宏陸：投開票所把我的票少計了一、兩百票，當場有人提出抗議說他這樣子亂寫，他們才現場更正，這一個簡單的就可以這樣了，對不對？那我不相信，我也不認為他們會是故意啦！但就是事實啊！發生啊！對不對？那我們也不可能每個投開票所去看，但我舉這個例子很明確，如果你這樣子，到時候你要計票，就像你說的，中間有一個蓋錯或什麼，我在現場提出抗議，有人提出抗議，你那個票要處理個5分鐘或十幾分鐘，那你光開票可能要好幾個小時，會不會？"],["李主任委員進勇：對，就是有一些選務上可能疏漏的地方，其實最重要的就是說，我們都能夠當場有一個double check能夠發現，即時發現即時更正，如果這個更正的效率沒有提得很高的話，就會耽誤到我們整個選舉的時程。"],["張委員宏陸：即時更正是本來就必須要的嘛！我剛剛說他計票錯誤的這個，我再強調，我不是說他是故意的，但就是會發生這種錯誤啊！對不對？你想想看，光一個投開票所差了一、兩百票，那會差多少票，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：選票誤植，開票的誤植情況會發生。"],["張委員宏陸：對，但同樣的，你如果是公投跟大選在一起，我跟你講選務人員的壓力會更大，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["張委員宏陸：那他如何去精確的計票，我覺得是一個很大的問題，而且你在公開亮票時，現場如果有任何一個民眾提出異議、提出有問題，你們要不要處理？"],["李主任委員進勇：有異議，我們就要立即處理。"],["張委員宏陸：一定要嘛！對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我的意思就是說，公投法不是不能改，有很多技術上的層面，我們必須要把它考慮得清楚，才不會讓我們的選務人員無所適從，主委，你認不認同？"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員的諒解，因為委員長期在地方也是我們選務工作的領導者，對於選務相當的了解。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我覺得像這一些問題的話，主委你們應該把它整理出來，我們在討論法條的時候，其實你要讓所有參與討論的委員知道。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員宏陸：有哪些不是說我們不要去做，是有哪些目前實際上的狀況，其實是很難處理的，這個我覺得你要讓所有委員知道。"],["李主任委員進勇：是，我們會加強說明。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請王美惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-7","speakers":["徐欣瑩","羅智強","麥玉珍","賴士葆","張宏陸","李柏毅","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","黃捷","許宇甄","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","翁曉玲","高金素梅"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查委員賴士葆等19人擬\n具「公民投票法第三十條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員吳秉叡等21人擬具「公民投票法部分\n條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員羅智強等 18 人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」\n案；五、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公民投票法第二十一條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139301_00001"}}}