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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 312.794, \"end\": 312.814, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 312.814, \"end\": 312.874, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 312.874, \"end\": 312.894, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 312.894, \"end\": 312.934, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 312.934, \"end\": 312.954, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 312.954, \"end\": 312.974, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 312.974, \"end\": 312.994, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 312.994, \"end\": 313.054, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 313.054, \"end\": 313.074, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 313.074, \"end\": 313.115, \"score\": 0.478}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 313.115, \"end\": 313.135, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 313.135, \"end\": 313.275, \"score\": 0.59}, {\"word\": \"去\", 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\"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,223 --> 00:00:09,091\n好謝謝召委齁那這個麻煩一樣請我們的陳部長陳部長還有周署長周署長\n\n2\n00:00:19,264 --> 00:00:43,380\n好部長今天其實看了我們的這個第一張就好我們這個看一下今天我們的這個報告其實有點小小失望啦都在講我們好的一面啦那其實就是觀光有點問題我們稍微才會排今天這個會議嘛我們都寫說啊我們這個可能比跟去年比成長了多少恢復到疫情前多少都講好的講正面的啊真正的問題好像我們自己不敢點出來啦其實我覺得\n\n3\n00:00:44,827 --> 00:00:56,244\n面對問題我們要勇敢的面對問題那我們的問題才會被解決啦好不好希望我們這樣的態度來討論這觀光議題啦那我想先這個跟部長跟署長確認一下為什麼我們要推動觀光產業為什麼要推動觀光產業\n\n4\n00:01:03,171 --> 00:01:30,011\n觀光產業本來就是經濟的一部分對嘛賺錢嘛很簡單賺錢啦所以說就是賺錢啦簡單講就是人民要賺錢那我們在常常在做觀光統計的時候我們常常就統計到了相關的人次嘛對不對那既然我們是以賺錢為目的雖然說有點庸俗啦但以賺錢為目的這個人均的消費也相當重要嘛對不對我們過去大概這個一直以來討論都人次的問題啦那我們這個我們現在也有在討論永續跟數位的部分\n\n5\n00:01:32,173 --> 00:01:56,226\n是那大概去年啦我覺得2023年我們觀光署的資料那來臺旅客大概650萬人嘛那我們出境的旅客大概1180萬人大概是這樣的數字喔那差距看起來很大那實際上我們的觀光會差絕對不是這樣子的數字差距而已因為我們還要乘上我們的人均嘛對不對那我們來臺人均啦這個應該也是我們觀光署統計的啦我們來臺人均大概\n\n6\n00:01:57,106 --> 00:02:00,630\n公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司\n\n7\n00:02:20,330 --> 00:02:25,595\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n8\n00:02:43,730 --> 00:02:44,971\n這個你們有檢討過為什麼為什麼我們這個消費的人均的花費會差到1.5倍嗎?\n\n9\n00:02:53,578 --> 00:03:22,457\n跟委員報告一下有幾個因素啦第一個我們一般的買機票都不是在國內都是當地國算消費所以是不算來臺的這些的這個所謂的消費數這人均啊對那要扣掉的啦第二個就是說疫情之後其實結果改變了也就是休閒旅次跟商務旅次其實有很多是混搭的那也就是說他們現在的旅遊成本比疫情之前還墊高\n\n10\n00:03:24,258 --> 00:03:52,367\n那這些因素都是我們在分析的過程裡面但是我們也發現到現在20歲到40歲應該是出國跟來台灣應該都會有影響啦你剛剛講的因素應該出國跟來台都會有影響嘛所以我們在算的時候就先算來台灣的這些經濟的因素啦對啊出國也是嘛那個差距這麼大那其實我剛剛部長你剛剛有看到我們的這個通影片嘛其實我覺得我們就是要徹底去分析我們要去\n\n11\n00:03:53,710 --> 00:04:11,542\n比較細的去分析我們才能知道我們的利基點在哪裡我們的缺點在哪裡那其實從我們來臺旅客跟國人出國旅客的年齡層的分佈大概就可以看得出來我們的這個為什麼我們人均來臺人均為什麼比出國人均還低我們來臺旅客的主要年齡層大概集中在20到39歲\n\n12\n00:04:14,548 --> 00:04:20,396\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n\n13\n00:04:29,756 --> 00:04:36,663\n這個人次的統計大概就是從40歲開始就是20到29符合我們的經濟狀況這20剛出社會比較經濟狀況不是那麼好30到39好一點所以出國人變多到40到49人又更多了所以相對起來從我們的這個\n\n14\n00:04:48,195 --> 00:05:04,947\n國人出國跟來臺旅客人次的年齡層分佈大概可以看得出來這應該也是可以分析的一個點可以知道為什麼那我們是不是也可以從我們的年齡層的分佈可以看得出來我們國家為什麼比較吸引20到39歲的旅客\n\n15\n00:05:05,808 --> 00:05:13,775\n而反而不是高年齡層這個經濟能力比較好的一些旅客我們有曾經做過這樣的分析嗎我們的基點在哪裡為什麼年輕人喜歡來但是相對經濟能力比較好的外國人他為什麼比較少來我們有沒有做過分析或者說部長您的判斷會不會怎麼樣報告委員我覺得以你這張圖這樣看起來以這張圖看起來我覺得在年齡層比較高的比較有消費能力這是我們未來要努力去爭取的一個面向\n\n16\n00:05:33,152 --> 00:05:56,401\n那他們的經濟能力好比較沒有那麼多來台灣的因素有可能他們不曉得台灣有符合他們經濟水準或者是說他們喜好的那個消費的面向那這個部分或許我們在宣傳面上可以多一些讓國際的這個例如說40到49啊50到59經濟能力比較好的這個族群他們能夠多理解台灣在這方面的消費的狀況可以符合他們的需求\n\n17\n00:05:56,841 --> 00:06:25,491\n所以這樣就是很明確的TA雖然說這都是一個觀光的一塊大餅但是每一個消費的人群他都有自己可能消費的傾向那我們就可能針對我們優勢在哪邊那我們怎麼再加強缺點在哪邊為什麼會有缺點我們來補足那我們的整體的觀光才會進步我不是喊一個口號我不是很喜歡看到口號的東西我希望看到實際一點的東西那就優劣分析那我希望能夠對我們未來的觀光有很大的幫助那另外屢次這個落差\n\n18\n00:06:26,351 --> 00:06:29,712\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n19\n00:06:51,317 --> 00:06:57,761\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n\n20\n00:07:19,874 --> 00:07:43,808\n條件不能夠這個有條限次來談但是確實在這段時間內我們可以看到陸方有善意的陸方有善意的那我們這邊有沒有引你任何善意的方案來回應不一定是他提的方案嘛委員您說的善意齁臺灣的善意更早在今年的年初其實我們就已經開放團客可以到中國是後來取消了嘛但對岸到現在還沒有開放團客來臺灣對善意來講的話臺灣其實更早對那沒關係他們現在已經有\n\n21\n00:07:48,030 --> 00:08:10,873\n我們給了比較多沒關係我們給了比較多沒關係那他們有承諾他們的旅客到我們外島來那我們會不會因應他們來到我們的外島我們來提出一些其他的措施這個我們節成歡迎啦善意是互相堆疊的啦善意是互相堆疊不是說指責你每天指責來指責去那就不會進步了嘛善意會很多對而是人家有善意\n\n22\n00:08:12,174 --> 00:08:40,184\n市處的時候那我們這邊是不是有一些善意的方案能夠來回應他那相對起來善意是層層堆疊的好不好我希望既然剛剛我們講到觀光為了什麼是為了賺錢嘛那為了我們國人能夠賺錢那我們應該是彼此釋出善意而不是彼此來指責說你怎麼哪邊沒做好他指責我們台灣沒開辦廊課你指責他沒有來不能自由行來連自由行都不能來走廊課也不能來那這樣子永遠不會有進步嗎\n\n23\n00:08:41,044 --> 00:09:01,805\n好不好這個我知道或許你們也不能夠做足啦我們來歡迎他們就嘴巴講嘛好不好彼此釋出善意我相信這對台灣的觀光有進步啦那另外還有一點我要跟部長確認一下我們現在高鐵延伸宜蘭阿目前還做二階環評嘛那明年底預計明年底完成嘛\n\n24\n00:09:02,489 --> 00:09:22,526\n那這個部分其實在之前應該是王國材部長的時候我大概有提過啦我有建議說平溪是不是能夠設一站那時候他有說在評估嘛那後來我有確認一下我跟局長確認一下我們的如果說平溪要設一站的話在環評通過之後還有沒有機會還是說這個東西要設站必須要在環評裡面一併要通過的時候才能設站\n\n25\n00:09:29,870 --> 00:09:48,577\n理論上要一併要怎樣要一併要一併嘛所以照我們目前鐵道局的方案平溪站目前是沒有設置案的計畫嘛是這樣是的是的那沒關係我不想因為一個平溪站影響到延伸宜蘭這個整體的進度我們黃平照走但我們是不是能夠\n\n26\n00:09:51,005 --> 00:10:13,183\n預留設置的空間如果說要補相關的環評的程序的話未來有機會再來做審查我們可不可以承諾我我們在延伸宜蘭這條線的時候經過平行的時候預留可以設站的一個機會那後續再來努力可不可以承諾我們再跟委員報告我不要報告部長有沒有可以\n\n27\n00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:35,535\n因為要設站其實也牽扯到說在站體那邊周圍的整個都市計畫的部分還要再跟地方政府要再來商討所以那個程序應該會蠻長而且規模應該會蠻大的對所以我也不希望影響到往宜蘭的這條線來做嘛那我們預留我只是要求預留也不叫你設因為事實上是有些技術上的問題我再跟委員報告\n\n28\n00:10:38,083 --> 00:10:57,821\n好啦好啦好啦,這個東西我們在想,因為我沒看過你們的可行性評估啦,綜合國家報告我也沒看過,不知道為什麼你們當初為什麼不設。好,再來討論,那我希望真的可以考慮一下,剛剛講到觀光,憑新一年來的多少旅客,那為什麼剛剛講的回到剛剛講的,年輕人他搭乘大眾運輸的能力其實是比較強的,那火車轉來轉去,相對起來如果高鐵的話,\n\n29\n00:11:01,844 --> 00:11:12,929\n高年齡層的人就能夠來啦對不對其實大眾運輸工具也是觀光的一環嘛好不好我們做得越健全我們的觀光也越好嘛這井井相扣的好不好那再拜託部長再拜託我們的局長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6223\t9091\t好謝謝召委齁那這個麻煩一樣請我們的陳部長陳部長還有周署長周署長\n19264\t43380\t好部長今天其實看了我們的這個第一張就好我們這個看一下今天我們的這個報告其實有點小小失望啦都在講我們好的一面啦那其實就是觀光有點問題我們稍微才會排今天這個會議嘛我們都寫說啊我們這個可能比跟去年比成長了多少恢復到疫情前多少都講好的講正面的啊真正的問題好像我們自己不敢點出來啦其實我覺得\n44827\t56244\t面對問題我們要勇敢的面對問題那我們的問題才會被解決啦好不好希望我們這樣的態度來討論這觀光議題啦那我想先這個跟部長跟署長確認一下為什麼我們要推動觀光產業為什麼要推動觀光產業\n63171\t90011\t觀光產業本來就是經濟的一部分對嘛賺錢嘛很簡單賺錢啦所以說就是賺錢啦簡單講就是人民要賺錢那我們在常常在做觀光統計的時候我們常常就統計到了相關的人次嘛對不對那既然我們是以賺錢為目的雖然說有點庸俗啦但以賺錢為目的這個人均的消費也相當重要嘛對不對我們過去大概這個一直以來討論都人次的問題啦那我們這個我們現在也有在討論永續跟數位的部分\n92173\t116226\t是 那大概去年啦 我覺得2023年我們觀光署的資料那來臺旅客大概650萬人嘛 那我們出境的旅客大概1180萬人大概是這樣的數字喔 那差距看起來很大 那實際上我們的觀光會差絕對不是這樣子的數字差距而已 因為我們還要乘上我們的人均嘛 對不對那我們來臺人均啦 這個應該也是我們觀光署統計的啦 我們來臺人均大概\n117106\t120630\t公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司\n140330\t145595\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n163730\t164971\t這個你們有檢討過為什麼為什麼我們這個消費的人均的花費會差到1.5倍嗎?\n173578\t202457\t跟委員報告一下有幾個因素啦第一個我們一般的買機票都不是在國內都是當地國算消費所以是不算來臺的這些的這個所謂的消費數這人均啊對那要扣掉的啦第二個就是說疫情之後其實結果改變了也就是休閒旅次跟商務旅次其實有很多是混搭的那也就是說他們現在的旅遊成本比疫情之前還墊高\n204258\t232367\t那這些因素都是我們在分析的過程裡面但是我們也發現到現在20歲到40歲應該是出國跟來台灣應該都會有影響啦你剛剛講的因素應該出國跟來台都會有影響嘛所以我們在算的時候就先算來台灣的這些經濟的因素啦對啊出國也是嘛那個差距這麼大那其實我剛剛部長你剛剛有看到我們的這個通影片嘛其實我覺得我們就是要徹底去分析我們要去\n233710\t251542\t比較細的去分析我們才能知道我們的利基點在哪裡我們的缺點在哪裡那其實從我們來臺旅客跟國人出國旅客的年齡層的分佈大概就可以看得出來我們的這個為什麼我們人均來臺人均為什麼比出國人均還低我們來臺旅客的主要年齡層大概集中在20到39歲\n254548\t260396\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n269756\t276663\t這個人次的統計大概就是從40歲開始就是20到29符合我們的經濟狀況這20剛出社會比較經濟狀況不是那麼好30到39好一點所以出國人變多到40到49人又更多了所以相對起來從我們的這個\n288195\t304947\t國人出國跟來臺旅客人次的年齡層分佈大概可以看得出來這應該也是可以分析的一個點可以知道為什麼那我們是不是也可以從我們的年齡層的分佈可以看得出來我們國家為什麼比較吸引20到39歲的旅客\n305808\t313775\t而反而不是高年齡層這個經濟能力比較好的一些旅客我們有曾經做過這樣的分析嗎我們的基點在哪裡為什麼年輕人喜歡來但是相對經濟能力比較好的外國人他為什麼比較少來我們有沒有做過分析或者說部長您的判斷會不會怎麼樣報告委員我覺得以你這張圖這樣看起來以這張圖看起來我覺得在年齡層比較高的比較有消費能力這是我們未來要努力去爭取的一個面向\n333152\t356401\t那他們的經濟能力好比較沒有那麼多來台灣的因素有可能他們不曉得台灣有符合他們經濟水準或者是說他們喜好的那個消費的面向那這個部分或許我們在宣傳面上可以多一些讓國際的這個例如說40到49啊50到59經濟能力比較好的這個族群他們能夠多理解台灣在這方面的消費的狀況可以符合他們的需求\n356841\t385491\t所以這樣就是很明確的TA雖然說這都是一個觀光的一塊大餅但是每一個消費的人群他都有自己可能消費的傾向那我們就可能針對我們優勢在哪邊那我們怎麼再加強缺點在哪邊為什麼會有缺點我們來補足那我們的整體的觀光才會進步我不是喊一個口號我不是很喜歡看到口號的東西我希望看到實際一點的東西那就優劣分析那我希望能夠對我們未來的觀光有很大的幫助那另外屢次這個落差\n386351\t389712\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n411317\t417761\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n439874\t463808\t條件不能夠這個有條限次來談但是確實在這段時間內我們可以看到陸方有善意的陸方有善意的那我們這邊有沒有引你任何善意的方案來回應不一定是他提的方案嘛委員您說的善意齁臺灣的善意更早在今年的年初其實我們就已經開放團客可以到中國是 後來取消了嘛但對岸到現在還沒有開放團客來臺灣對善意來講的話臺灣其實更早對那沒關係他們現在已經有\n468030\t490873\t我們給了比較多沒關係我們給了比較多沒關係那他們有承諾他們的旅客到我們外島來那我們會不會因應他們來到我們的外島我們來提出一些其他的措施這個我們節成歡迎啦善意是互相堆疊的啦善意是互相堆疊不是說指責你每天指責來指責去那就不會進步了嘛善意會很多對 而是人家有善意\n492174\t520184\t市處的時候那我們這邊是不是有一些善意的方案能夠來回應他那相對起來善意是層層堆疊的好不好我希望既然剛剛我們講到觀光為了什麼是為了賺錢嘛那為了我們國人能夠賺錢那我們應該是彼此釋出善意而不是彼此來指責說你怎麼哪邊沒做好他指責我們台灣沒開辦廊課你指責他沒有來不能自由行來連自由行都不能來走廊課也不能來那這樣子永遠不會有進步嗎\n521044\t541805\t好不好這個我知道或許你們也不能夠做足啦我們來歡迎他們就嘴巴講嘛好不好彼此釋出善意我相信這對台灣的觀光有進步啦那另外還有一點我要跟部長確認一下我們現在高鐵延伸宜蘭阿目前還做二階環評嘛那明年底預計明年底完成嘛\n542489\t562526\t那這個部分其實在之前應該是王國材部長的時候我大概有提過啦我有建議說平溪是不是能夠設一站那時候他有說在評估嘛那後來我有確認一下我跟局長確認一下我們的如果說平溪要設一站的話在環評通過之後還有沒有機會還是說這個東西要設站必須要在環評裡面一併要通過的時候才能設站\n569870\t588577\t理論上要一併要怎樣要一併要一併嘛所以照我們目前鐵道局的方案平溪站目前是沒有設置案的計畫嘛 是這樣是的是的那沒關係我不想因為一個平溪站影響到延伸宜蘭這個整體的進度我們黃平照走但我們是不是能夠\n591005\t613183\t預留設置的空間如果說要補相關的環評的程序的話未來有機會再來做審查我們可不可以承諾我我們在延伸宜蘭這條線的時候經過平行的時候預留可以設站的一個機會那後續再來努力可不可以承諾我們再跟委員報告我不要報告部長有沒有可以\n614760\t635535\t因為要設站其實也牽扯到說在站體那邊周圍的整個都市計畫的部分還要再跟地方政府要再來商討所以那個程序應該會蠻長而且規模應該會蠻大的對所以我也不希望影響到往宜蘭的這條線來做嘛那我們預留我只是要求預留也不叫你設因為事實上是有些技術上的問題我再跟委員報告\n638083\t657821\t好啦好啦好啦,這個東西我們在想,因為我沒看過你們的可行性評估啦,綜合國家報告我也沒看過,不知道為什麼你們當初為什麼不設。好,再來討論,那我希望真的可以考慮一下,剛剛講到觀光,憑新一年來的多少旅客,那為什麼剛剛講的回到剛剛講的,年輕人他搭乘大眾運輸的能力其實是比較強的,那火車轉來轉去,相對起來如果高鐵的話,\n661844\t672929\t高年齡層的人就能夠來啦對不對其實大眾運輸工具也是觀光的一環嘛好不好我們做得越健全我們的觀光也越好嘛這井井相扣的好不好那再拜託部長再拜託我們的局長謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝召委齁那這個麻煩一樣請我們的陳部長陳部長還有周署長周署長\n好部長今天其實看了我們的這個第一張就好我們這個看一下今天我們的這個報告其實有點小小失望啦都在講我們好的一面啦那其實就是觀光有點問題我們稍微才會排今天這個會議嘛我們都寫說啊我們這個可能比跟去年比成長了多少恢復到疫情前多少都講好的講正面的啊真正的問題好像我們自己不敢點出來啦其實我覺得\n面對問題我們要勇敢的面對問題那我們的問題才會被解決啦好不好希望我們這樣的態度來討論這觀光議題啦那我想先這個跟部長跟署長確認一下為什麼我們要推動觀光產業為什麼要推動觀光產業\n觀光產業本來就是經濟的一部分對嘛賺錢嘛很簡單賺錢啦所以說就是賺錢啦簡單講就是人民要賺錢那我們在常常在做觀光統計的時候我們常常就統計到了相關的人次嘛對不對那既然我們是以賺錢為目的雖然說有點庸俗啦但以賺錢為目的這個人均的消費也相當重要嘛對不對我們過去大概這個一直以來討論都人次的問題啦那我們這個我們現在也有在討論永續跟數位的部分\n是 那大概去年啦 我覺得2023年我們觀光署的資料那來臺旅客大概650萬人嘛 那我們出境的旅客大概1180萬人大概是這樣的數字喔 那差距看起來很大 那實際上我們的觀光會差絕對不是這樣子的數字差距而已 因為我們還要乘上我們的人均嘛 對不對那我們來臺人均啦 這個應該也是我們觀光署統計的啦 我們來臺人均大概\n公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n這個你們有檢討過為什麼為什麼我們這個消費的人均的花費會差到1.5倍嗎?\n跟委員報告一下有幾個因素啦第一個我們一般的買機票都不是在國內都是當地國算消費所以是不算來臺的這些的這個所謂的消費數這人均啊對那要扣掉的啦第二個就是說疫情之後其實結果改變了也就是休閒旅次跟商務旅次其實有很多是混搭的那也就是說他們現在的旅遊成本比疫情之前還墊高\n那這些因素都是我們在分析的過程裡面但是我們也發現到現在20歲到40歲應該是出國跟來台灣應該都會有影響啦你剛剛講的因素應該出國跟來台都會有影響嘛所以我們在算的時候就先算來台灣的這些經濟的因素啦對啊出國也是嘛那個差距這麼大那其實我剛剛部長你剛剛有看到我們的這個通影片嘛其實我覺得我們就是要徹底去分析我們要去\n比較細的去分析我們才能知道我們的利基點在哪裡我們的缺點在哪裡那其實從我們來臺旅客跟國人出國旅客的年齡層的分佈大概就可以看得出來我們的這個為什麼我們人均來臺人均為什麼比出國人均還低我們來臺旅客的主要年齡層大概集中在20到39歲\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n這個人次的統計大概就是從40歲開始就是20到29符合我們的經濟狀況這20剛出社會比較經濟狀況不是那麼好30到39好一點所以出國人變多到40到49人又更多了所以相對起來從我們的這個\n國人出國跟來臺旅客人次的年齡層分佈大概可以看得出來這應該也是可以分析的一個點可以知道為什麼那我們是不是也可以從我們的年齡層的分佈可以看得出來我們國家為什麼比較吸引20到39歲的旅客\n而反而不是高年齡層這個經濟能力比較好的一些旅客我們有曾經做過這樣的分析嗎我們的基點在哪裡為什麼年輕人喜歡來但是相對經濟能力比較好的外國人他為什麼比較少來我們有沒有做過分析或者說部長您的判斷會不會怎麼樣報告委員我覺得以你這張圖這樣看起來以這張圖看起來我覺得在年齡層比較高的比較有消費能力這是我們未來要努力去爭取的一個面向\n那他們的經濟能力好比較沒有那麼多來台灣的因素有可能他們不曉得台灣有符合他們經濟水準或者是說他們喜好的那個消費的面向那這個部分或許我們在宣傳面上可以多一些讓國際的這個例如說40到49啊50到59經濟能力比較好的這個族群他們能夠多理解台灣在這方面的消費的狀況可以符合他們的需求\n所以這樣就是很明確的TA雖然說這都是一個觀光的一塊大餅但是每一個消費的人群他都有自己可能消費的傾向那我們就可能針對我們優勢在哪邊那我們怎麼再加強缺點在哪邊為什麼會有缺點我們來補足那我們的整體的觀光才會進步我不是喊一個口號我不是很喜歡看到口號的東西我希望看到實際一點的東西那就優劣分析那我希望能夠對我們未來的觀光有很大的幫助那另外屢次這個落差\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n條件不能夠這個有條限次來談但是確實在這段時間內我們可以看到陸方有善意的陸方有善意的那我們這邊有沒有引你任何善意的方案來回應不一定是他提的方案嘛委員您說的善意齁臺灣的善意更早在今年的年初其實我們就已經開放團客可以到中國是 後來取消了嘛但對岸到現在還沒有開放團客來臺灣對善意來講的話臺灣其實更早對那沒關係他們現在已經有\n我們給了比較多沒關係我們給了比較多沒關係那他們有承諾他們的旅客到我們外島來那我們會不會因應他們來到我們的外島我們來提出一些其他的措施這個我們節成歡迎啦善意是互相堆疊的啦善意是互相堆疊不是說指責你每天指責來指責去那就不會進步了嘛善意會很多對 而是人家有善意\n市處的時候那我們這邊是不是有一些善意的方案能夠來回應他那相對起來善意是層層堆疊的好不好我希望既然剛剛我們講到觀光為了什麼是為了賺錢嘛那為了我們國人能夠賺錢那我們應該是彼此釋出善意而不是彼此來指責說你怎麼哪邊沒做好他指責我們台灣沒開辦廊課你指責他沒有來不能自由行來連自由行都不能來走廊課也不能來那這樣子永遠不會有進步嗎\n好不好這個我知道或許你們也不能夠做足啦我們來歡迎他們就嘴巴講嘛好不好彼此釋出善意我相信這對台灣的觀光有進步啦那另外還有一點我要跟部長確認一下我們現在高鐵延伸宜蘭阿目前還做二階環評嘛那明年底預計明年底完成嘛\n那這個部分其實在之前應該是王國材部長的時候我大概有提過啦我有建議說平溪是不是能夠設一站那時候他有說在評估嘛那後來我有確認一下我跟局長確認一下我們的如果說平溪要設一站的話在環評通過之後還有沒有機會還是說這個東西要設站必須要在環評裡面一併要通過的時候才能設站\n理論上要一併要怎樣要一併要一併嘛所以照我們目前鐵道局的方案平溪站目前是沒有設置案的計畫嘛 是這樣是的是的那沒關係我不想因為一個平溪站影響到延伸宜蘭這個整體的進度我們黃平照走但我們是不是能夠\n預留設置的空間如果說要補相關的環評的程序的話未來有機會再來做審查我們可不可以承諾我我們在延伸宜蘭這條線的時候經過平行的時候預留可以設站的一個機會那後續再來努力可不可以承諾我們再跟委員報告我不要報告部長有沒有可以\n因為要設站其實也牽扯到說在站體那邊周圍的整個都市計畫的部分還要再跟地方政府要再來商討所以那個程序應該會蠻長而且規模應該會蠻大的對所以我也不希望影響到往宜蘭的這條線來做嘛那我們預留我只是要求預留也不叫你設因為事實上是有些技術上的問題我再跟委員報告\n好啦好啦好啦,這個東西我們在想,因為我沒看過你們的可行性評估啦,綜合國家報告我也沒看過,不知道為什麼你們當初為什麼不設。好,再來討論,那我希望真的可以考慮一下,剛剛講到觀光,憑新一年來的多少旅客,那為什麼剛剛講的回到剛剛講的,年輕人他搭乘大眾運輸的能力其實是比較強的,那火車轉來轉去,相對起來如果高鐵的話,\n高年齡層的人就能夠來啦對不對其實大眾運輸工具也是觀光的一環嘛好不好我們做得越健全我們的觀光也越好嘛這井井相扣的好不好那再拜託部長再拜託我們的局長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.223 --> 00:09.091\n好謝謝召委齁那這個麻煩一樣請我們的陳部長陳部長還有周署長周署長\n\n00:19.264 --> 00:43.380\n好部長今天其實看了我們的這個第一張就好我們這個看一下今天我們的這個報告其實有點小小失望啦都在講我們好的一面啦那其實就是觀光有點問題我們稍微才會排今天這個會議嘛我們都寫說啊我們這個可能比跟去年比成長了多少恢復到疫情前多少都講好的講正面的啊真正的問題好像我們自己不敢點出來啦其實我覺得\n\n00:44.827 --> 00:56.244\n面對問題我們要勇敢的面對問題那我們的問題才會被解決啦好不好希望我們這樣的態度來討論這觀光議題啦那我想先這個跟部長跟署長確認一下為什麼我們要推動觀光產業為什麼要推動觀光產業\n\n01:03.171 --> 01:30.011\n觀光產業本來就是經濟的一部分對嘛賺錢嘛很簡單賺錢啦所以說就是賺錢啦簡單講就是人民要賺錢那我們在常常在做觀光統計的時候我們常常就統計到了相關的人次嘛對不對那既然我們是以賺錢為目的雖然說有點庸俗啦但以賺錢為目的這個人均的消費也相當重要嘛對不對我們過去大概這個一直以來討論都人次的問題啦那我們這個我們現在也有在討論永續跟數位的部分\n\n01:32.173 --> 01:56.226\n是那大概去年啦我覺得2023年我們觀光署的資料那來臺旅客大概650萬人嘛那我們出境的旅客大概1180萬人大概是這樣的數字喔那差距看起來很大那實際上我們的觀光會差絕對不是這樣子的數字差距而已因為我們還要乘上我們的人均嘛對不對那我們來臺人均啦這個應該也是我們觀光署統計的啦我們來臺人均大概\n\n01:57.106 --> 02:00.630\n公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司\n\n02:20.330 --> 02:25.595\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n02:43.730 --> 02:44.971\n這個你們有檢討過為什麼為什麼我們這個消費的人均的花費會差到1.5倍嗎?\n\n02:53.578 --> 03:22.457\n跟委員報告一下有幾個因素啦第一個我們一般的買機票都不是在國內都是當地國算消費所以是不算來臺的這些的這個所謂的消費數這人均啊對那要扣掉的啦第二個就是說疫情之後其實結果改變了也就是休閒旅次跟商務旅次其實有很多是混搭的那也就是說他們現在的旅遊成本比疫情之前還墊高\n\n03:24.258 --> 03:52.367\n那這些因素都是我們在分析的過程裡面但是我們也發現到現在20歲到40歲應該是出國跟來台灣應該都會有影響啦你剛剛講的因素應該出國跟來台都會有影響嘛所以我們在算的時候就先算來台灣的這些經濟的因素啦對啊出國也是嘛那個差距這麼大那其實我剛剛部長你剛剛有看到我們的這個通影片嘛其實我覺得我們就是要徹底去分析我們要去\n\n03:53.710 --> 04:11.542\n比較細的去分析我們才能知道我們的利基點在哪裡我們的缺點在哪裡那其實從我們來臺旅客跟國人出國旅客的年齡層的分佈大概就可以看得出來我們的這個為什麼我們人均來臺人均為什麼比出國人均還低我們來臺旅客的主要年齡層大概集中在20到39歲\n\n04:14.548 --> 04:20.396\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n\n04:29.756 --> 04:36.663\n這個人次的統計大概就是從40歲開始就是20到29符合我們的經濟狀況這20剛出社會比較經濟狀況不是那麼好30到39好一點所以出國人變多到40到49人又更多了所以相對起來從我們的這個\n\n04:48.195 --> 05:04.947\n國人出國跟來臺旅客人次的年齡層分佈大概可以看得出來這應該也是可以分析的一個點可以知道為什麼那我們是不是也可以從我們的年齡層的分佈可以看得出來我們國家為什麼比較吸引20到39歲的旅客\n\n05:05.808 --> 05:13.775\n而反而不是高年齡層這個經濟能力比較好的一些旅客我們有曾經做過這樣的分析嗎我們的基點在哪裡為什麼年輕人喜歡來但是相對經濟能力比較好的外國人他為什麼比較少來我們有沒有做過分析或者說部長您的判斷會不會怎麼樣報告委員我覺得以你這張圖這樣看起來以這張圖看起來我覺得在年齡層比較高的比較有消費能力這是我們未來要努力去爭取的一個面向\n\n05:33.152 --> 05:56.401\n那他們的經濟能力好比較沒有那麼多來台灣的因素有可能他們不曉得台灣有符合他們經濟水準或者是說他們喜好的那個消費的面向那這個部分或許我們在宣傳面上可以多一些讓國際的這個例如說40到49啊50到59經濟能力比較好的這個族群他們能夠多理解台灣在這方面的消費的狀況可以符合他們的需求\n\n05:56.841 --> 06:25.491\n所以這樣就是很明確的TA雖然說這都是一個觀光的一塊大餅但是每一個消費的人群他都有自己可能消費的傾向那我們就可能針對我們優勢在哪邊那我們怎麼再加強缺點在哪邊為什麼會有缺點我們來補足那我們的整體的觀光才會進步我不是喊一個口號我不是很喜歡看到口號的東西我希望看到實際一點的東西那就優劣分析那我希望能夠對我們未來的觀光有很大的幫助那另外屢次這個落差\n\n06:26.351 --> 06:29.712\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n06:51.317 --> 06:57.761\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n\n07:19.874 --> 07:43.808\n條件不能夠這個有條限次來談但是確實在這段時間內我們可以看到陸方有善意的陸方有善意的那我們這邊有沒有引你任何善意的方案來回應不一定是他提的方案嘛委員您說的善意齁臺灣的善意更早在今年的年初其實我們就已經開放團客可以到中國是後來取消了嘛但對岸到現在還沒有開放團客來臺灣對善意來講的話臺灣其實更早對那沒關係他們現在已經有\n\n07:48.030 --> 08:10.873\n我們給了比較多沒關係我們給了比較多沒關係那他們有承諾他們的旅客到我們外島來那我們會不會因應他們來到我們的外島我們來提出一些其他的措施這個我們節成歡迎啦善意是互相堆疊的啦善意是互相堆疊不是說指責你每天指責來指責去那就不會進步了嘛善意會很多對而是人家有善意\n\n08:12.174 --> 08:40.184\n市處的時候那我們這邊是不是有一些善意的方案能夠來回應他那相對起來善意是層層堆疊的好不好我希望既然剛剛我們講到觀光為了什麼是為了賺錢嘛那為了我們國人能夠賺錢那我們應該是彼此釋出善意而不是彼此來指責說你怎麼哪邊沒做好他指責我們台灣沒開辦廊課你指責他沒有來不能自由行來連自由行都不能來走廊課也不能來那這樣子永遠不會有進步嗎\n\n08:41.044 --> 09:01.805\n好不好這個我知道或許你們也不能夠做足啦我們來歡迎他們就嘴巴講嘛好不好彼此釋出善意我相信這對台灣的觀光有進步啦那另外還有一點我要跟部長確認一下我們現在高鐵延伸宜蘭阿目前還做二階環評嘛那明年底預計明年底完成嘛\n\n09:02.489 --> 09:22.526\n那這個部分其實在之前應該是王國材部長的時候我大概有提過啦我有建議說平溪是不是能夠設一站那時候他有說在評估嘛那後來我有確認一下我跟局長確認一下我們的如果說平溪要設一站的話在環評通過之後還有沒有機會還是說這個東西要設站必須要在環評裡面一併要通過的時候才能設站\n\n09:29.870 --> 09:48.577\n理論上要一併要怎樣要一併要一併嘛所以照我們目前鐵道局的方案平溪站目前是沒有設置案的計畫嘛是這樣是的是的那沒關係我不想因為一個平溪站影響到延伸宜蘭這個整體的進度我們黃平照走但我們是不是能夠\n\n09:51.005 --> 10:13.183\n預留設置的空間如果說要補相關的環評的程序的話未來有機會再來做審查我們可不可以承諾我我們在延伸宜蘭這條線的時候經過平行的時候預留可以設站的一個機會那後續再來努力可不可以承諾我們再跟委員報告我不要報告部長有沒有可以\n\n10:14.760 --> 10:35.535\n因為要設站其實也牽扯到說在站體那邊周圍的整個都市計畫的部分還要再跟地方政府要再來商討所以那個程序應該會蠻長而且規模應該會蠻大的對所以我也不希望影響到往宜蘭的這條線來做嘛那我們預留我只是要求預留也不叫你設因為事實上是有些技術上的問題我再跟委員報告\n\n10:38.083 --> 10:57.821\n好啦好啦好啦,這個東西我們在想,因為我沒看過你們的可行性評估啦,綜合國家報告我也沒看過,不知道為什麼你們當初為什麼不設。好,再來討論,那我希望真的可以考慮一下,剛剛講到觀光,憑新一年來的多少旅客,那為什麼剛剛講的回到剛剛講的,年輕人他搭乘大眾運輸的能力其實是比較強的,那火車轉來轉去,相對起來如果高鐵的話,\n\n11:01.844 --> 11:12.929\n高年齡層的人就能夠來啦對不對其實大眾運輸工具也是觀光的一環嘛好不好我們做得越健全我們的觀光也越好嘛這井井相扣的好不好那再拜託部長再拜託我們的局長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.223,"end":9.091,"text":"好謝謝召委齁那這個麻煩一樣請我們的陳部長陳部長還有周署長周署長"},{"start":19.264,"end":43.38,"text":"好部長今天其實看了我們的這個第一張就好我們這個看一下今天我們的這個報告其實有點小小失望啦都在講我們好的一面啦那其實就是觀光有點問題我們稍微才會排今天這個會議嘛我們都寫說啊我們這個可能比跟去年比成長了多少恢復到疫情前多少都講好的講正面的啊真正的問題好像我們自己不敢點出來啦其實我覺得"},{"start":44.827,"end":56.244,"text":"面對問題我們要勇敢的面對問題那我們的問題才會被解決啦好不好希望我們這樣的態度來討論這觀光議題啦那我想先這個跟部長跟署長確認一下為什麼我們要推動觀光產業為什麼要推動觀光產業"},{"start":63.171,"end":90.011,"text":"觀光產業本來就是經濟的一部分對嘛賺錢嘛很簡單賺錢啦所以說就是賺錢啦簡單講就是人民要賺錢那我們在常常在做觀光統計的時候我們常常就統計到了相關的人次嘛對不對那既然我們是以賺錢為目的雖然說有點庸俗啦但以賺錢為目的這個人均的消費也相當重要嘛對不對我們過去大概這個一直以來討論都人次的問題啦那我們這個我們現在也有在討論永續跟數位的部分"},{"start":92.173,"end":116.226,"text":"是 那大概去年啦 我覺得2023年我們觀光署的資料那來臺旅客大概650萬人嘛 那我們出境的旅客大概1180萬人大概是這樣的數字喔 那差距看起來很大 那實際上我們的觀光會差絕對不是這樣子的數字差距而已 因為我們還要乘上我們的人均嘛 對不對那我們來臺人均啦 這個應該也是我們觀光署統計的啦 我們來臺人均大概"},{"start":117.106,"end":120.63,"text":"公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司董事長、外交部國家公園署公司"},{"start":140.33,"end":145.595,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署"},{"start":163.73,"end":164.971,"text":"這個你們有檢討過為什麼為什麼我們這個消費的人均的花費會差到1.5倍嗎?"},{"start":173.578,"end":202.457,"text":"跟委員報告一下有幾個因素啦第一個我們一般的買機票都不是在國內都是當地國算消費所以是不算來臺的這些的這個所謂的消費數這人均啊對那要扣掉的啦第二個就是說疫情之後其實結果改變了也就是休閒旅次跟商務旅次其實有很多是混搭的那也就是說他們現在的旅遊成本比疫情之前還墊高"},{"start":204.258,"end":232.367,"text":"那這些因素都是我們在分析的過程裡面但是我們也發現到現在20歲到40歲應該是出國跟來台灣應該都會有影響啦你剛剛講的因素應該出國跟來台都會有影響嘛所以我們在算的時候就先算來台灣的這些經濟的因素啦對啊出國也是嘛那個差距這麼大那其實我剛剛部長你剛剛有看到我們的這個通影片嘛其實我覺得我們就是要徹底去分析我們要去"},{"start":233.71,"end":251.542,"text":"比較細的去分析我們才能知道我們的利基點在哪裡我們的缺點在哪裡那其實從我們來臺旅客跟國人出國旅客的年齡層的分佈大概就可以看得出來我們的這個為什麼我們人均來臺人均為什麼比出國人均還低我們來臺旅客的主要年齡層大概集中在20到39歲"},{"start":254.548,"end":260.396,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司"},{"start":269.756,"end":276.663,"text":"這個人次的統計大概就是從40歲開始就是20到29符合我們的經濟狀況這20剛出社會比較經濟狀況不是那麼好30到39好一點所以出國人變多到40到49人又更多了所以相對起來從我們的這個"},{"start":288.195,"end":304.947,"text":"國人出國跟來臺旅客人次的年齡層分佈大概可以看得出來這應該也是可以分析的一個點可以知道為什麼那我們是不是也可以從我們的年齡層的分佈可以看得出來我們國家為什麼比較吸引20到39歲的旅客"},{"start":305.808,"end":313.775,"text":"而反而不是高年齡層這個經濟能力比較好的一些旅客我們有曾經做過這樣的分析嗎我們的基點在哪裡為什麼年輕人喜歡來但是相對經濟能力比較好的外國人他為什麼比較少來我們有沒有做過分析或者說部長您的判斷會不會怎麼樣報告委員我覺得以你這張圖這樣看起來以這張圖看起來我覺得在年齡層比較高的比較有消費能力這是我們未來要努力去爭取的一個面向"},{"start":333.152,"end":356.401,"text":"那他們的經濟能力好比較沒有那麼多來台灣的因素有可能他們不曉得台灣有符合他們經濟水準或者是說他們喜好的那個消費的面向那這個部分或許我們在宣傳面上可以多一些讓國際的這個例如說40到49啊50到59經濟能力比較好的這個族群他們能夠多理解台灣在這方面的消費的狀況可以符合他們的需求"},{"start":356.841,"end":385.491,"text":"所以這樣就是很明確的TA雖然說這都是一個觀光的一塊大餅但是每一個消費的人群他都有自己可能消費的傾向那我們就可能針對我們優勢在哪邊那我們怎麼再加強缺點在哪邊為什麼會有缺點我們來補足那我們的整體的觀光才會進步我不是喊一個口號我不是很喜歡看到口號的東西我希望看到實際一點的東西那就優劣分析那我希望能夠對我們未來的觀光有很大的幫助那另外屢次這個落差"},{"start":386.351,"end":389.712,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署"},{"start":411.317,"end":417.761,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司"},{"start":439.874,"end":463.808,"text":"條件不能夠這個有條限次來談但是確實在這段時間內我們可以看到陸方有善意的陸方有善意的那我們這邊有沒有引你任何善意的方案來回應不一定是他提的方案嘛委員您說的善意齁臺灣的善意更早在今年的年初其實我們就已經開放團客可以到中國是 後來取消了嘛但對岸到現在還沒有開放團客來臺灣對善意來講的話臺灣其實更早對那沒關係他們現在已經有"},{"start":468.03,"end":490.873,"text":"我們給了比較多沒關係我們給了比較多沒關係那他們有承諾他們的旅客到我們外島來那我們會不會因應他們來到我們的外島我們來提出一些其他的措施這個我們節成歡迎啦善意是互相堆疊的啦善意是互相堆疊不是說指責你每天指責來指責去那就不會進步了嘛善意會很多對 而是人家有善意"},{"start":492.174,"end":520.184,"text":"市處的時候那我們這邊是不是有一些善意的方案能夠來回應他那相對起來善意是層層堆疊的好不好我希望既然剛剛我們講到觀光為了什麼是為了賺錢嘛那為了我們國人能夠賺錢那我們應該是彼此釋出善意而不是彼此來指責說你怎麼哪邊沒做好他指責我們台灣沒開辦廊課你指責他沒有來不能自由行來連自由行都不能來走廊課也不能來那這樣子永遠不會有進步嗎"},{"start":521.044,"end":541.805,"text":"好不好這個我知道或許你們也不能夠做足啦我們來歡迎他們就嘴巴講嘛好不好彼此釋出善意我相信這對台灣的觀光有進步啦那另外還有一點我要跟部長確認一下我們現在高鐵延伸宜蘭阿目前還做二階環評嘛那明年底預計明年底完成嘛"},{"start":542.489,"end":562.526,"text":"那這個部分其實在之前應該是王國材部長的時候我大概有提過啦我有建議說平溪是不是能夠設一站那時候他有說在評估嘛那後來我有確認一下我跟局長確認一下我們的如果說平溪要設一站的話在環評通過之後還有沒有機會還是說這個東西要設站必須要在環評裡面一併要通過的時候才能設站"},{"start":569.87,"end":588.577,"text":"理論上要一併要怎樣要一併要一併嘛所以照我們目前鐵道局的方案平溪站目前是沒有設置案的計畫嘛 是這樣是的是的那沒關係我不想因為一個平溪站影響到延伸宜蘭這個整體的進度我們黃平照走但我們是不是能夠"},{"start":591.005,"end":613.183,"text":"預留設置的空間如果說要補相關的環評的程序的話未來有機會再來做審查我們可不可以承諾我我們在延伸宜蘭這條線的時候經過平行的時候預留可以設站的一個機會那後續再來努力可不可以承諾我們再跟委員報告我不要報告部長有沒有可以"},{"start":614.76,"end":635.535,"text":"因為要設站其實也牽扯到說在站體那邊周圍的整個都市計畫的部分還要再跟地方政府要再來商討所以那個程序應該會蠻長而且規模應該會蠻大的對所以我也不希望影響到往宜蘭的這條線來做嘛那我們預留我只是要求預留也不叫你設因為事實上是有些技術上的問題我再跟委員報告"},{"start":638.083,"end":657.821,"text":"好啦好啦好啦,這個東西我們在想,因為我沒看過你們的可行性評估啦,綜合國家報告我也沒看過,不知道為什麼你們當初為什麼不設。好,再來討論,那我希望真的可以考慮一下,剛剛講到觀光,憑新一年來的多少旅客,那為什麼剛剛講的回到剛剛講的,年輕人他搭乘大眾運輸的能力其實是比較強的,那火車轉來轉去,相對起來如果高鐵的話,"},{"start":661.844,"end":672.929,"text":"高年齡層的人就能夠來啦對不對其實大眾運輸工具也是觀光的一環嘛好不好我們做得越健全我們的觀光也越好嘛這井井相扣的好不好那再拜託部長再拜託我們的局長謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":506,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時9分）謝謝召委。麻煩請我們的陳部長、周署長。"],["主席：陳部長、周署長。"],["廖委員先翔：部長，今天看了這份報告，其實我有點小小失望，裡面講的都是我們好的一面，但就是因為觀光有點問題，召委才會安排今天這個會議，你們都寫說跟去年比成長多少、恢復到疫情前多少等等，都講好的、正面的，真正的問題好像你們都不敢點出來。我覺得應該要勇敢面對問題，這樣問題才會被解決，好不好？希望我們是用這樣的態度來討論觀光議題。","首先想跟部長及署長確認一下，為什麼我們要推動觀光產業？"],["陳部長世凱：為什麼要推動觀光……"],["廖委員先翔：為什麼要推動觀光產業？"],["周署長永暉：觀光產業本來就是經濟的一部分。"],["廖委員先翔：對嘛！賺錢嘛！很簡單，就是賺錢，簡單講，就是人民要賺錢。我們常常在做觀光統計的時候，都會統計相關人次，對不對？既然是以賺錢為目的，雖然這樣說有點庸俗，但若是以賺錢為目的，那麼人均的消費也相當重要，對不對？一直以來，我們討論的都是人次的問題……"],["陳部長世凱：我們現在也有在討論永續跟數位的部分。"],["廖委員先翔：是，根據去年（2023年）觀光署統計資料，來臺旅客大概650萬人，出境旅客大概1,180萬人，兩者差距很大，但實際上，我們的觀光匯差絕對不是這樣的數字差距而已，因為還要乘上人均，對不對？來臺人均部分，這應該也是觀光署統計的數據，來臺人均大概是4萬1，而國人出國的人均大概6萬元，所以人均上面也差了1.5倍，就是來臺灣的人次比我們出國的少，但是我們出國的人又花的比來臺灣的人多，所以去年來臺的觀光經濟大概是2,700億，出國大概是七千多億，七千多億減掉2,700億，相對的匯差達到了4,400億，比起人次部分看起來是更大的差距，所以無論是從觀光角度來看，或是從經濟角度來看，確實都有很大要努力改善的目標。這部分你們有檢討過嗎？為什麼我們的人均消費會差到1.5倍？"],["周署長永暉：跟委員報告，這有幾個因素，第一個，我們一般買機票都不是在國內，都算是當地國消費，所以不算來臺的所謂消費……"],["廖委員先翔：這人均啊！"],["周署長永暉：對，那要扣掉的。第二個，疫情之後結構改變了，休閒旅次跟商務旅次，其實有很多是混搭的，也就是說，現在的旅遊成本比疫情之前還墊高，這些因素都在我們分析的過程裡面，但我們也發現到現在20歲到40歲……"],["廖委員先翔：這部分應該是出國跟來臺灣兩方面都會有影響，就是你剛剛講的因素，應該出國跟來臺都會有影響……"],["周署長永暉：我們在算的時候，就先算來臺灣的這些經濟因素。"],["廖委員先翔：對啦！但出國也是，差距卻這麼大。部長剛剛有看到我的這個投影片，我覺得我們應該要澈底去分析，要比較細的去分析，才能知道我們的利基點在哪裡、我們的缺點在哪裡。其實從來臺旅客跟國人出國旅客的年齡層分布，大概就可以看出為什麼來臺人均會比出國人均還低。來臺旅客主要年齡層大概集中在20到39歲，相對起來，20到39歲可能都是經濟狀況還不是那麼好的年齡層，客觀來看應該是這樣子，但是國人出國的人次統計，以經濟狀況來看，20到29歲部分，因為是剛出社會，經濟狀況不是那麼好；30到39歲好一點，所以出國人變多；到40到49歲，人又更多了，所以從國人出國跟來臺旅客人次的年齡層分布，大概可以看得出來，這應該也是一個可以分析的點，可以知道為什麼人均會比較低，那我們是不是也可以從年齡層的分布看出來，為什麼我們國家比較吸引20到39歲的旅客，而不是高年齡層、經濟能力比較好的一些旅客？我們曾經做過這樣的分析嗎？我們的利基點在哪裡？為什麼年輕人喜歡來，但相對經濟能力比較好的外國人比較少來？我們有沒有做過分析？或是部長的判斷是怎麼樣？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我覺得以你這張圖這樣看……"],["廖委員先翔：這是你們觀光署的啦！"],["陳部長世凱：是，以這張圖看起來，我覺得年齡層比較高、比較有消費能力的，這是我們未來要努力爭取的一個面向。他們經濟能力好，卻比較沒有那麼多人來臺灣的因素，有可能是他們不曉得臺灣有符合他們經濟水準或者他們喜好的消費面向，這個部分，或許我們在宣傳面上可以加強，讓國際上40到49歲、50到59歲經濟能力比較好的這個族群，能夠多多理解臺灣在這方面的消費狀況，以符合他們的需求。"],["廖委員先翔：我這個就是很明確的提議，雖然都是一個觀光大餅，但是每一個消費人群，都可能有自己消費的傾向，我們可以針對我們的優勢再加強，至於缺點的部分，或為什麼會有缺點，我們也要來補足，這樣我們的整體觀光才會進步，而不是喊一個口號。我不是很喜歡看到口號這個東西，我希望看到實際一點的東西，針對優劣分析，希望能夠對我們未來的觀光有很大的幫助。","另外，旅次落差這麼大的因素，有一個很大的原因是陸客的部分，對不對？之前確實陸方有提出一些方案，我們這邊當然是……現在民進黨政府有一些意見，當初他們說先讓陸客可以到我們的外島，希望我們臺灣開放客運，那他們再開放福建旅客能夠來臺灣。那時候他們提出的方案是這樣，也確實履行了他們的第一步，就是他們先釋出善意承諾，讓他們的旅客能夠到我們的外島，這部分已經可以了，也確實在進行當中，但目前我們還沒有要開放臺灣到平潭的客運，對不對？當然，這其中可能有很多因素，也可能有政治因素，你們認為要有條件來談，但是確實在這段時間內，我們看到陸方有善意了，那我們這邊有沒有研擬任何善意的方案來回應？不一定是他們提的方案嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：委員，您說的善意，臺灣的善意更早，其實在今年年初我們就已經開放團客到中國……"],["廖委員先翔：是，但後來取消了嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：但對岸到現在還沒有開放團客來臺灣，所以以善意來講，臺灣其實更早。"],["廖委員先翔：對！那沒關係，他們現在已經有了，我們給的比較多沒關係……"],["陳部長世凱：他們目前……"],["廖委員先翔：我們給的比較多沒關係，他們有承諾他們的旅客到我們外島來，那我們會不會因應他們開放旅客到我們的外島，而提出一些其他措施……"],["陳部長世凱：這個我們竭誠歡迎……"],["廖委員先翔：善意是互相堆疊的，善意是互相堆疊的……"],["陳部長世凱：當然，當然。"],["廖委員先翔：不是互相指責，每天指責來指責去，那就不會進步了嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：沒有，我們善意會很多。"],["廖委員先翔：對，人家有善意釋出的時候……"],["陳部長世凱：我們現在是張開雙手歡迎大陸那邊，對岸那邊的旅客來臺。"],["廖委員先翔：我們這邊是不是也有一些善意的方案來回應他們？我想善意是層層堆疊的，好不好？我們剛剛講到觀光是為了什麼？是為了賺錢嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["廖委員先翔：為了國人能夠賺錢，我們應該彼此釋出善意，而不是彼此指責哪邊沒做好，他們指責我們臺灣沒開放團客，你指責他們不能自由行，團客也不能來，這樣子永遠不會有進步，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["廖委員先翔：我知道或許這個你們也不能夠作主……"],["陳部長世凱：我們來歡迎他們。"],["廖委員先翔：不要光嘴巴講嘛！好不好？彼此釋出善意，我相信對臺灣觀光的進步會有幫助。","另外還有一點，我要跟部長確認一下。高鐵延伸宜蘭的部分，目前在做二階環評，預計明年底完成，這個部分其實在之前王國材擔任部長時我也有提過，我建議是不是能在平溪設一站，那時候部長有說再評估。我跟局長再確認，如果平溪要設站的話，在環評通過之後還有沒有機會？還是說必須在環評裡面一併呈報通過才能設站？"],["楊局長正君：理論上要一併。"],["廖委員先翔：要怎樣？"],["楊局長正君：要一併。"],["廖委員先翔：要一併，所以照鐵道局目前的方案，平溪站是沒有設站的計畫，是這樣嗎？"],["楊局長正君：是的。"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，我不想因為一個平溪站影響到延伸宜蘭的整體進度，我們環評照走，但是不是能夠預留設置空間，如果未來要補相關環評程序的話，有機會再來審查？交通部可不可以承諾，在延伸宜蘭這條線部分，是否可以預留平溪設站的機會，我們後續再來努力？可不可以承諾？"],["楊局長正君：我們再跟委員報告。"],["廖委員先翔：我不要報告啊！部長，可不可以？"],["陳部長世凱：因為要設站，其實也牽扯到在站體周圍整個都市計畫的部分，還要跟地方政府再來商討啦！所以那個程序應該會蠻長，而且規模應該會蠻大。"],["廖委員先翔：對，所以我也是不希望影響到往宜蘭的這條線，我們預留，我只是要求預留而已，又不是叫你設！"],["楊局長正君：報告委員，事實上有一些技術上的問題，我再跟委員報告。"],["廖委員先翔：好啦，好啦，這個東西我們再想一想，因為我沒看過你們的可行性評估，綜合報告我也沒看過，我不知道當初你們為什麼不設，好，再來討論，我希望真的可以考慮一下。剛剛講到觀光，平溪一年來了多少旅客？回到剛剛講的，年輕人搭乘大眾運輸的能力其實是比較強的，搭火車轉來轉去，相對起來，如果有高鐵的話，高年齡層的人就能夠來啦，對不對？其實大眾運輸工具也是觀光的一環嘛，好不好？我們做得越健全，觀光也越好嘛，這緊緊相扣的，好不好？再拜託部長、再拜託局長，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：謝謝廖委員。","接下來有請陳雪生委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-8","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林沛祥","林國成","何欣純","游顥","陳素月","林俊憲","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","許智傑","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","麥玉珍","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","陳俊宇","林月琴","陳冠廷","黃國昌","林倩綺","黃健豪"],"page_start":121,"meetingDate":["2024-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署署長、交通部民用航空局局長、交通部航港局局長、\n國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長、桃園國際機場股份有限\n公司董事長、臺灣港務股份有限公司董事長、外交部、內政部國家公園署、農業部林業及自然保\n育署及行政院消費者保護處就「如何提升國外旅客來台觀光人數暨優化國旅體驗及降低旅遊消費\n爭議」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部觀光署署長、交通部公路局局長、交通部高速\n公路局局長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長及桃園國際\n機場股份有限公司董事長就「2025台灣燈會辦理情形暨交通疏運方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139301_00002"}}}