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00:00:56,821\n現在的狀況怎麼樣今天早上我們的抽油船終於可以靠過去了前幾天其實每一天都有派抽油船過來但因為海象不允許它的海浪大概都到4米2米以下才可以作業那今天已經靠過去作業人員也都已經上去難船上面了已經開始在做前置作業了好那油抽完了之後接下來呢\n\n3\n00:00:58,211 --> 00:01:23,863\n應該會在原地做拆解的動作是不是請局長各位報告我們現在最優先的就是把油抽完應該要化解這個污染的風險那第二個就是船貨的移除那我們會設法盡量除了這個限地拆解這個方案之外我們通常會設法讓它所謂的撫養的移除讓它能夠拖帶那個離開這個擱淺的位置\n\n4\n00:01:27,644 --> 00:01:48,612\n現在是貨接下來油處理完了再來處理貨船跟貨船你要就地拆解掉嗎沒有我們會要求保險公司提出對環境影響最小的方案希望以拖走為優先但如果拖不走就必須要就地拆解局長國際上處理擱淺大家都怎麼處理\n\n5\n00:01:55,228 --> 00:02:18,935\n我們現在以這個案子來講這個都是國際上知名的保險公司保險公司是一個問題保險公司那是事後等到事情到了結論之後該怎麼賠那保險公司要出面賠嘛那我的意思是說國際面對我舉個例子第一個船擱淺它可能漏油\n\n6\n00:02:19,875 --> 00:02:28,949\n那我看我們能做的就是七早八早就把燃油省先弄出來嘛第二個如果貨上面載的是危險物品\n\n7\n00:02:30,131 --> 00:02:52,220\n那這個可能問題更嚴重嘛因為他可能會有其他的污染甚至爆炸甚至我anyway不知道什麼問題啦反正上面的貨如果還是危險物品所以呢國際上的處理方式是跟我們一樣就是等著穩定之後先抽油再解決貨然後再處理影響最小的船看要怎麼處理\n\n8\n00:02:53,724 --> 00:03:12,979\n國際都是這樣子嗎那國際有救援船臺灣臺灣到今天為止連一艘救援船都沒有嘛對我們派海巡去只是把人載走嘛對對於那一艘船怎麼處置我們其實是臺灣其實是無能為力的就簡單講他如果漏油我們就讓他漏漏完再來索賠嘛\n\n9\n00:03:14,777 --> 00:03:32,149\n對包委這個部分就是現在我們比較欠缺的是拖船的能量對對對不管把它推到更外海或者拉進來我們都沒有嘛那現在國內的這個拖船都是港內型的對對對我們沒有那麼大的這個救援船嘛\n\n10\n00:03:32,589 --> 00:03:46,790\n那根本就是說現在也在行政院的支持下在江部的支持下今年行政院已經核定了我們明明要來推動一艘大型的拖救船好那這個大型拖救船的營運是在\n\n11\n00:03:49,190 --> 00:04:13,358\n港務公司嗎我們會招商那會有一家專業的廠商他會來負責這個好所以就明年開始我們開始打造第一艘臺灣的救援船是這樣的意思嗎下半年明年下半年是這樣的意思沒有錯是的第一艘好這個我的重點在這裡就是說我希望明年真的要落實這個事情臺灣對四面環海\n\n12\n00:04:16,192 --> 00:04:39,504\n那每一年現在只是剛好我在關心這個問題的時候剛好有這個在野柳外海事實上之前7月10月我看陸續你們這個通報的這個事件裡面幾乎這個每一年都很多條船擱淺那我其實很不同意這種所謂我其實不同意這種事後大家再來看要怎麼處理\n\n13\n00:04:40,504 --> 00:05:03,973\n就是他把臺灣譬如說在野柳外海甚至有一些更是海洋生態豐富的地方他把他汙染了然後我們汙染之後再開始人家說你要賠我錢我們應該是想辦法阻止他不要讓他汙染嘛所以我看國際的救援上面譬如說日本來講他可能是大型的救援船把那個擱淺的船推出去\n\n14\n00:05:04,893 --> 00:05:11,059\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n15\n00:05:29,689 --> 00:05:57,548\n已經事情發生了我們在講事後那個賠償我認為這個做法上消極委員所說的過去確實沒有這個拖船的設施這個確實只能消極處理那未來如果有拖船我們就可以積極處理所以部長這個一定要督促讓明年不管你們營運的方式是政府來經營或者政府跟民間合作或者你們直接要招標委託給民間經營不是都贊成但是重點就是說我們要趕快積極\n\n16\n00:06:00,073 --> 00:06:28,033\n這個實在是說實在話今天講這個有稍微漏氣這個那麼久的時間然後我們四面環每一年都這種案例都那麼多但我們卻都是無能為力的方式在處理消極的方式在處理我覺得這個不妥所以這一次要來做這個事情本席是很支持的但我很擔心說搞就要做搞不要明年又來跟講說來立法院講說又遇到什麼問題又不能做明年下半年大概這艘船就能到了明年下半年就能到了\n\n17\n00:06:28,732 --> 00:06:34,673\n好謝謝那請三位請回那接下來我請那個那個觀光署那個周署長委員好署長好署長我想齁這個本席八年的時間沒有待在交通委員會齁這個十年前我就在這個台上齁很非常關心那個旅館的那個星級認證那當時我就已經預測齁這個星級認證齁\n\n18\n00:07:00,852 --> 00:07:24,559\n這個越來越糟糕業者第一個業者業者參與的程度越來越低有參與的人就算觀光署去鼓勵去鼓勵去拜託或者他自己有需求可是這個得到這個星期認證在消費者心目當中他已經是他已經不算一個事了啦就是現在的消費者對於\n\n19\n00:07:26,175 --> 00:07:40,236\n我們這個交通部觀光署所做的這些星級認證大家已經不再是作為一個我住宿的指標所以長期下來這種叫惡性循環就我得獎也沒什麼\n\n20\n00:07:41,547 --> 00:07:54,494\n那我參加了我要繳費然後我得到這個獎所以我就不參加啊不參加你看那個數目啊你看星期旅館那個那個認證的那個加數啊104年606到了113年這逐年一直下來嘛剩下100多\n\n21\n00:08:02,210 --> 00:08:18,636\n我認為如果我們不理他就讓他繼續留在那裡不施任何的改進或者乾脆你把他廢掉嘛或者說你要把他留著很好我也不會反對那你要怎麼做讓他可以起死回生這個早晚就是歸零嘛\n\n22\n00:08:19,156 --> 00:08:25,200\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n23\n00:08:35,046 --> 00:08:36,707\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n24\n00:08:51,377 --> 00:09:16,595\n所以我們也用澳洲的標準所以我們有一個五星Outstanding應該俗稱的六星級飯店所以這一次已經有兩家六星級的飯店那這個星級的部分我們也重新調配也就是它的KPI會不一樣所以現在就是說先整備的部分盤整的部分已經完成了那再來的話我們怎麼樣是\n\n25\n00:09:17,756 --> 00:09:18,477\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園\n\n26\n00:09:42,377 --> 00:10:02,325\n臺灣觀光協會臺灣觀光協會有很多新級旅館在裡面所以我們也希望透過臺灣觀光協會跟我們的新級旅館的這個協會做一些串接我們希望做一些鼓勵性的飲客那確實大家對新因為現在我們修法還在做也就是我們現在旅館有三種\n\n27\n00:10:03,405 --> 00:10:27,238\n一個叫做國際觀光旅館一個叫做一般觀光旅館一個叫一般旅館可是我們這種分級其實不好旅館要國際化它一定是通盤往國際化走所以我們初步的話就把觀光旅館跟旅館分兩類然後就是走品牌所以這個新級的旅館確實要重新打造那我們希望\n\n28\n00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:42,776\n真的需要一點時間然後我們會跟旅宿業一起合作市長其實這種分類在你們內部管理上這個也是10年前就討論的議題就10年前去定義什麼叫觀光旅館、一般旅館其實10年前大家就挑戰了\n\n29\n00:10:43,937 --> 00:11:10,455\n這都是老生殘疾十年後我站在這裡我還是在跟你講這個事情你還是在跟本席報告這個事情所以這個已經沒有什麼拖不拖就是第一個叫你們怎麼管理啦你們內部對於這種分類有沒有意義譬如說你這個分類是有意義的因為我的標準要求不同那我的權利義務也不同那這樣當然有意義嘛就像你不會說我們蓋房子我們來分幾千萬以上叫豪宅豪宅的管理有豪宅的管理沒有它叫公寓大廈\n\n30\n00:11:12,145 --> 00:11:39,745\n就你長那個樣子有樓梯有什麼他就供一大下不會再分豪宅的歸豪宅沒有嘛你就是那因為是為什麼因為他權利義務責任什麼都差不多啦而且地方政府在管一般觀光旅館跟旅館對對阿但是問題是修法在立法院嘛是你們行政單位怎麼去修法立法院來審查所以重點還是你們對於整個台灣的旅館業怎麼管理嘛是那第二個我再請教我們星級旅館一年我們編多少預算來做\n\n31\n00:11:40,923 --> 00:12:05,160\n預算確實不多但是品牌沒關係不多是多少千萬還是百萬我們原則上大概就一千萬左右一千萬左右好那我再請教一下我看這個米其林他現在在做那個叫星藥就他的米其林一星二星三星這個米其林推薦這個是飲食餐飲那米其林現在對旅館他做這個藥食星藥\n\n32\n00:12:09,438 --> 00:12:31,043\n這是另外一個系統對是另外一個系統跟飲食不一樣所以他用鑰匙一個用星星一個用鑰匙不一樣好那這個台灣我看公布裡面沒有台灣嗎我們目前並沒有跟他合作對那有沒有打算乾脆跟他合作我們要評估一下他的制度對就是很簡單因為我們的旅館的我們現在邏輯是這樣我不是說\n\n33\n00:12:32,545 --> 00:12:46,820\n我對米其林我沒有什麼特別覺得他就一定好啦對我來講他就是不踩雷的代表啦就至少米其林推薦給你的不會是地雷啦但是你說好不好吃那個個人見仁見智好\n\n34\n00:12:47,781 --> 00:13:07,044\n現在我要跟你討論為什麼我們的新籍旅館評鑑會一直下來是因為消費者從來沒有對新籍台灣的這個品牌叫做台灣觀光署發的新籍旅館評鑑它有任何象徵的意義特別是10年前我認為多少還有一點點10年後的今天我認為它毫無意義\n\n35\n00:13:07,845 --> 00:13:36,311\n所以我的意思就是說花一千萬要打造這個品牌我認為難度很高就是你要打造到讓台灣的消費者國際消費者讓台灣認為星級旅館就是他的目標我覺得這個難所以你的第一個方法就是你要嘛你要做這些星級旅館你就不要弄那個什麼一千萬的啦外傳那個媒體寫的說跟米其林合作我們都花了六千萬在飲食的部分啦當然觀光局否認嘛我不去追究這個但重點是說\n\n36\n00:13:37,540 --> 00:14:02,462\n我們要打造品牌你就要真的花心思去打造讓這個品牌國際觀光客、台灣觀光客認為這個是絕對是保證至少對我來講他不踩雷嘛是保證然後你最好能做到大家以這個為追求的指標譬如說很多人為什麼米其林我們台灣要做是因為很多米其林的愛好者他為了追星他專程坐飛機來台灣吃米其林啊所以米其林對台灣的光光義義在這裡嘛\n\n37\n00:14:04,312 --> 00:14:29,828\n那回過頭來一樣的道理我們政府等於說我們在餐飲我們相信米其林可是我們在旅館上我們自己要搞一個旅館評鑑我們自己要搞一個星期旅館評鑑那你就要保證這個旅館評鑑你要搞得有聲有色讓大家至少他不要說贏米其林也不要說跟米其林一樣至少很接近大家也覺得喔這讚這個是有公信力這個是有價值的那旅館他花這個錢他才會來嗎\n\n38\n00:14:31,705 --> 00:14:48,794\n主席已經站很久我不忍心讓他站太久了我只把我的想法先告訴部長跟局長跟署長一定要這樣做嘛不然你就二選一你就乾脆不要花這個錢你乾脆就找米其林來合作嘛或者你還有其他的這個評鑑單位也是全球公信力所有的\n\n39\n00:14:49,494 --> 00:14:54,478\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n\n40\n00:15:17,694 --> 00:15:18,140\n好,謝謝蔡委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5089\t32543\t謝謝主席請陳部長陳部長請航政司跟航港局航港局業局長安市長跟業局長來市長部長、市長、局長大家好首先我先來請教一下那個野柳外海擱淺的那個中國籍貨輪\n34444\t56821\t現在的狀況怎麼樣今天早上我們的抽油船終於可以靠過去了前幾天其實每一天都有派抽油船過來但因為海象不允許它的海浪大概都到4米2米以下才可以作業那今天已經靠過去作業人員也都已經上去難船上面了已經開始在做前置作業了好 那油抽完了之後接下來呢\n58211\t83863\t應該會在原地做拆解的動作是不是請局長各位報告我們現在最優先的就是把油抽完應該要化解這個污染的風險那第二個就是船貨的移除那我們會設法盡量除了這個限地拆解這個方案之外我們通常會設法讓它所謂的撫養的移除讓它能夠拖帶那個離開這個擱淺的位置\n87644\t108612\t現在是貨接下來油處理完了再來處理貨船跟貨船你要就地拆解掉嗎沒有我們會要求保險公司提出對環境影響最小的方案希望以拖走為優先但如果拖不走就必須要就地拆解局長國際上處理擱淺大家都怎麼處理\n115228\t138935\t我們現在以這個案子來講這個都是國際上知名的保險公司保險公司是一個問題保險公司那是事後等到事情到了結論之後該怎麼賠那保險公司要出面賠嘛那我的意思是說國際面對我舉個例子第一個船擱淺它可能漏油\n139875\t148949\t那我看我們能做的就是七早八早就把燃油省先弄出來嘛第二個如果貨上面載的是危險物品\n150131\t172220\t那這個可能問題更嚴重嘛因為他可能會有其他的污染甚至爆炸甚至我anyway不知道什麼問題啦反正上面的貨如果還是危險物品所以呢國際上的處理方式是跟我們一樣就是等著穩定之後先抽油再解決貨然後再處理影響最小的船看要怎麼處理\n173724\t192979\t國際都是這樣子嗎那國際有救援船臺灣臺灣到今天為止連一艘救援船都沒有嘛對我們派海巡去只是把人載走嘛對對於那一艘船怎麼處置我們其實是臺灣其實是無能為力的就簡單講他如果漏油我們就讓他漏漏完再來索賠嘛\n194777\t212149\t對 包委 這個部分就是現在我們比較欠缺的是拖船的能量對對對不管把它推到更外海或者拉進來我們都沒有嘛那現在國內的這個拖船都是港內型的對對對 我們沒有那麼大的這個救援船嘛\n212589\t226790\t那根本就是說現在也在行政院的支持下在江部的支持下今年行政院已經核定了我們明明要來推動一艘大型的拖救船好那這個大型拖救船的營運是在\n229190\t253358\t港務公司嗎我們會招商那會有一家專業的廠商他會來負責這個好所以就明年開始我們開始打造第一艘臺灣的救援船是這樣的意思嗎下半年明年下半年是這樣的意思沒有錯是的第一艘好這個我的重點在這裡就是說我希望明年真的要落實這個事情臺灣對四面環海\n256192\t279504\t那每一年現在只是剛好我在關心這個問題的時候剛好有這個在野柳外海事實上之前7月10月我看陸續你們這個通報的這個事件裡面幾乎這個每一年都很多條船擱淺那我其實很不同意這種所謂我其實不同意這種事後大家再來看要怎麼處理\n280504\t303973\t就是他把臺灣譬如說在野柳外海甚至有一些更是海洋生態豐富的地方他把他汙染了然後我們汙染之後再開始人家說你要賠我錢我們應該是想辦法阻止他不要讓他汙染嘛所以我看國際的救援上面譬如說日本來講他可能是大型的救援船把那個擱淺的船推出去\n304893\t311059\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n329689\t357548\t已經事情發生了我們在講事後那個賠償我認為這個做法上消極委員所說的過去確實沒有這個拖船的設施這個確實只能消極處理那未來如果有拖船我們就可以積極處理所以部長這個一定要督促讓明年不管你們營運的方式是政府來經營或者政府跟民間合作或者你們直接要招標委託給民間經營不是都贊成但是重點就是說我們要趕快積極\n360073\t388033\t這個實在是說實在話今天講這個有稍微漏氣這個那麼久的時間然後我們四面環每一年都這種案例都那麼多但我們卻都是無能為力的方式在處理消極的方式在處理我覺得這個不妥所以這一次要來做這個事情本席是很支持的但我很擔心說搞就要做搞不要明年又來跟講說來立法院講說又遇到什麼問題又不能做明年下半年大概這艘船就能到了明年下半年就能到了\n388732\t394673\t好謝謝那請三位請回那接下來我請那個那個觀光署那個周署長委員好署長好署長我想齁這個本席八年的時間沒有待在交通委員會齁這個十年前我就在這個台上齁很非常關心那個旅館的那個星級認證那當時我就已經預測齁這個星級認證齁\n420852\t444559\t這個越來越糟糕業者第一個業者業者參與的程度越來越低有參與的人就算觀光署去鼓勵去鼓勵去拜託或者他自己有需求可是這個得到這個星期認證在消費者心目當中他已經是他已經不算一個事了啦就是現在的消費者對於\n446175\t460236\t我們這個交通部觀光署所做的這些星級認證大家已經不再是作為一個我住宿的指標所以長期下來這種叫惡性循環就我得獎也沒什麼\n461547\t474494\t那我參加了我要繳費然後我得到這個獎所以我就不參加啊不參加你看那個數目啊你看星期旅館那個那個認證的那個加數啊104年606到了113年這逐年一直下來嘛剩下100多\n482210\t498636\t我認為如果我們不理他就讓他繼續留在那裡不施任何的改進或者乾脆你把他廢掉嘛或者說你要把他留著很好我也不會反對那你要怎麼做讓他可以起死回生這個早晚就是歸零嘛\n499156\t505200\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n515046\t516707\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n531377\t556595\t所以我們也用澳洲的標準所以我們有一個五星Outstanding應該俗稱的六星級飯店所以這一次已經有兩家六星級的飯店那這個星級的部分我們也重新調配也就是它的KPI會不一樣所以現在就是說先整備的部分盤整的部分已經完成了那再來的話我們怎麼樣是\n557756\t558477\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園\n582377\t602325\t臺灣觀光協會臺灣觀光協會有很多新級旅館在裡面所以我們也希望透過臺灣觀光協會跟我們的新級旅館的這個協會做一些串接我們希望做一些鼓勵性的飲客那確實大家對新因為現在我們修法還在做也就是我們現在旅館有三種\n603405\t627238\t一個叫做國際觀光旅館一個叫做一般觀光旅館一個叫一般旅館可是我們這種分級其實不好旅館要國際化它一定是通盤往國際化走所以我們初步的話就把觀光旅館跟旅館分兩類然後就是走品牌所以這個新級的旅館確實要重新打造那我們希望\n628279\t642776\t真的需要一點時間然後我們會跟旅宿業一起合作市長其實這種分類在你們內部管理上這個也是10年前就討論的議題就10年前去定義什麼叫觀光旅館、一般旅館其實10年前大家就挑戰了\n643937\t670455\t這都是老生殘疾十年後我站在這裡我還是在跟你講這個事情你還是在跟本席報告這個事情所以這個已經沒有什麼拖不拖就是第一個叫你們怎麼管理啦你們內部對於這種分類有沒有意義譬如說你這個分類是有意義的因為我的標準要求不同那我的權利義務也不同那這樣當然有意義嘛就像你不會說我們蓋房子我們來分幾千萬以上叫豪宅豪宅的管理有豪宅的管理沒有它叫公寓大廈\n672145\t699745\t就你長那個樣子有樓梯有什麼他就供一大下不會再分豪宅的歸豪宅沒有嘛你就是那因為是為什麼因為他權利義務責任什麼都差不多啦而且地方政府在管一般觀光旅館跟旅館對對阿但是問題是修法在立法院嘛是你們行政單位怎麼去修法立法院來審查所以重點還是你們對於整個台灣的旅館業怎麼管理嘛是那第二個我再請教我們星級旅館一年我們編多少預算來做\n700923\t725160\t預算確實不多但是品牌沒關係不多是多少千萬還是百萬我們原則上大概就一千萬左右一千萬左右好那我再請教一下我看這個米其林他現在在做那個叫星藥就他的米其林一星二星三星這個米其林推薦這個是飲食餐飲那米其林現在對旅館他做這個藥食星藥\n729438\t751043\t這是另外一個系統對是另外一個系統跟飲食不一樣所以他用鑰匙一個用星星一個用鑰匙不一樣好那這個台灣我看公布裡面沒有台灣嗎我們目前並沒有跟他合作對那有沒有打算乾脆跟他合作我們要評估一下他的制度對就是很簡單因為我們的旅館的我們現在邏輯是這樣我不是說\n752545\t766820\t我對米其林我沒有什麼特別覺得他就一定好啦對我來講他就是不踩雷的代表啦就至少米其林推薦給你的不會是地雷啦但是你說好不好吃那個個人見仁見智好\n767781\t787044\t現在我要跟你討論為什麼我們的新籍旅館評鑑會一直下來是因為消費者從來沒有對新籍台灣的這個品牌叫做台灣觀光署發的新籍旅館評鑑它有任何象徵的意義特別是10年前我認為多少還有一點點10年後的今天我認為它毫無意義\n787845\t816311\t所以我的意思就是說花一千萬要打造這個品牌我認為難度很高就是你要打造到讓台灣的消費者國際消費者讓台灣認為星級旅館就是他的目標我覺得這個難所以你的第一個方法就是你要嘛你要做這些星級旅館你就不要弄那個什麼一千萬的啦外傳那個媒體寫的說跟米其林合作我們都花了六千萬在飲食的部分啦當然觀光局否認嘛我不去追究這個但重點是說\n817540\t842462\t我們要打造品牌你就要真的花心思去打造讓這個品牌國際觀光客、台灣觀光客認為這個是絕對是保證至少對我來講他不踩雷嘛是保證然後你最好能做到大家以這個為追求的指標譬如說很多人為什麼米其林我們台灣要做是因為很多米其林的愛好者他為了追星他專程坐飛機來台灣吃米其林啊所以米其林對台灣的光光義義在這裡嘛\n844312\t869828\t那回過頭來一樣的道理我們政府等於說我們在餐飲我們相信米其林可是我們在旅館上我們自己要搞一個旅館評鑑我們自己要搞一個星期旅館評鑑那你就要保證這個旅館評鑑你要搞得有聲有色讓大家至少他不要說贏米其林也不要說跟米其林一樣至少很接近大家也覺得喔這讚這個是有公信力這個是有價值的那旅館他花這個錢他才會來嗎\n871705\t888794\t主席已經站很久我不忍心讓他站太久了我只把我的想法先告訴部長跟局長跟署長一定要這樣做嘛不然你就二選一你就乾脆不要花這個錢你乾脆就找米其林來合作嘛或者你還有其他的這個評鑑單位也是全球公信力所有的\n889494\t894478\t有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n917694\t918140\t好,謝謝蔡委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席請陳部長陳部長請航政司跟航港局航港局業局長安市長跟業局長來市長部長、市長、局長大家好首先我先來請教一下那個野柳外海擱淺的那個中國籍貨輪\n現在的狀況怎麼樣今天早上我們的抽油船終於可以靠過去了前幾天其實每一天都有派抽油船過來但因為海象不允許它的海浪大概都到4米2米以下才可以作業那今天已經靠過去作業人員也都已經上去難船上面了已經開始在做前置作業了好 那油抽完了之後接下來呢\n應該會在原地做拆解的動作是不是請局長各位報告我們現在最優先的就是把油抽完應該要化解這個污染的風險那第二個就是船貨的移除那我們會設法盡量除了這個限地拆解這個方案之外我們通常會設法讓它所謂的撫養的移除讓它能夠拖帶那個離開這個擱淺的位置\n現在是貨接下來油處理完了再來處理貨船跟貨船你要就地拆解掉嗎沒有我們會要求保險公司提出對環境影響最小的方案希望以拖走為優先但如果拖不走就必須要就地拆解局長國際上處理擱淺大家都怎麼處理\n我們現在以這個案子來講這個都是國際上知名的保險公司保險公司是一個問題保險公司那是事後等到事情到了結論之後該怎麼賠那保險公司要出面賠嘛那我的意思是說國際面對我舉個例子第一個船擱淺它可能漏油\n那我看我們能做的就是七早八早就把燃油省先弄出來嘛第二個如果貨上面載的是危險物品\n那這個可能問題更嚴重嘛因為他可能會有其他的污染甚至爆炸甚至我anyway不知道什麼問題啦反正上面的貨如果還是危險物品所以呢國際上的處理方式是跟我們一樣就是等著穩定之後先抽油再解決貨然後再處理影響最小的船看要怎麼處理\n國際都是這樣子嗎那國際有救援船臺灣臺灣到今天為止連一艘救援船都沒有嘛對我們派海巡去只是把人載走嘛對對於那一艘船怎麼處置我們其實是臺灣其實是無能為力的就簡單講他如果漏油我們就讓他漏漏完再來索賠嘛\n對 包委 這個部分就是現在我們比較欠缺的是拖船的能量對對對不管把它推到更外海或者拉進來我們都沒有嘛那現在國內的這個拖船都是港內型的對對對 我們沒有那麼大的這個救援船嘛\n那根本就是說現在也在行政院的支持下在江部的支持下今年行政院已經核定了我們明明要來推動一艘大型的拖救船好那這個大型拖救船的營運是在\n港務公司嗎我們會招商那會有一家專業的廠商他會來負責這個好所以就明年開始我們開始打造第一艘臺灣的救援船是這樣的意思嗎下半年明年下半年是這樣的意思沒有錯是的第一艘好這個我的重點在這裡就是說我希望明年真的要落實這個事情臺灣對四面環海\n那每一年現在只是剛好我在關心這個問題的時候剛好有這個在野柳外海事實上之前7月10月我看陸續你們這個通報的這個事件裡面幾乎這個每一年都很多條船擱淺那我其實很不同意這種所謂我其實不同意這種事後大家再來看要怎麼處理\n就是他把臺灣譬如說在野柳外海甚至有一些更是海洋生態豐富的地方他把他汙染了然後我們汙染之後再開始人家說你要賠我錢我們應該是想辦法阻止他不要讓他汙染嘛所以我看國際的救援上面譬如說日本來講他可能是大型的救援船把那個擱淺的船推出去\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n已經事情發生了我們在講事後那個賠償我認為這個做法上消極委員所說的過去確實沒有這個拖船的設施這個確實只能消極處理那未來如果有拖船我們就可以積極處理所以部長這個一定要督促讓明年不管你們營運的方式是政府來經營或者政府跟民間合作或者你們直接要招標委託給民間經營不是都贊成但是重點就是說我們要趕快積極\n這個實在是說實在話今天講這個有稍微漏氣這個那麼久的時間然後我們四面環每一年都這種案例都那麼多但我們卻都是無能為力的方式在處理消極的方式在處理我覺得這個不妥所以這一次要來做這個事情本席是很支持的但我很擔心說搞就要做搞不要明年又來跟講說來立法院講說又遇到什麼問題又不能做明年下半年大概這艘船就能到了明年下半年就能到了\n好謝謝那請三位請回那接下來我請那個那個觀光署那個周署長委員好署長好署長我想齁這個本席八年的時間沒有待在交通委員會齁這個十年前我就在這個台上齁很非常關心那個旅館的那個星級認證那當時我就已經預測齁這個星級認證齁\n這個越來越糟糕業者第一個業者業者參與的程度越來越低有參與的人就算觀光署去鼓勵去鼓勵去拜託或者他自己有需求可是這個得到這個星期認證在消費者心目當中他已經是他已經不算一個事了啦就是現在的消費者對於\n我們這個交通部觀光署所做的這些星級認證大家已經不再是作為一個我住宿的指標所以長期下來這種叫惡性循環就我得獎也沒什麼\n那我參加了我要繳費然後我得到這個獎所以我就不參加啊不參加你看那個數目啊你看星期旅館那個那個認證的那個加數啊104年606到了113年這逐年一直下來嘛剩下100多\n我認為如果我們不理他就讓他繼續留在那裡不施任何的改進或者乾脆你把他廢掉嘛或者說你要把他留著很好我也不會反對那你要怎麼做讓他可以起死回生這個早晚就是歸零嘛\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n所以我們也用澳洲的標準所以我們有一個五星Outstanding應該俗稱的六星級飯店所以這一次已經有兩家六星級的飯店那這個星級的部分我們也重新調配也就是它的KPI會不一樣所以現在就是說先整備的部分盤整的部分已經完成了那再來的話我們怎麼樣是\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園\n臺灣觀光協會臺灣觀光協會有很多新級旅館在裡面所以我們也希望透過臺灣觀光協會跟我們的新級旅館的這個協會做一些串接我們希望做一些鼓勵性的飲客那確實大家對新因為現在我們修法還在做也就是我們現在旅館有三種\n一個叫做國際觀光旅館一個叫做一般觀光旅館一個叫一般旅館可是我們這種分級其實不好旅館要國際化它一定是通盤往國際化走所以我們初步的話就把觀光旅館跟旅館分兩類然後就是走品牌所以這個新級的旅館確實要重新打造那我們希望\n真的需要一點時間然後我們會跟旅宿業一起合作市長其實這種分類在你們內部管理上這個也是10年前就討論的議題就10年前去定義什麼叫觀光旅館、一般旅館其實10年前大家就挑戰了\n這都是老生殘疾十年後我站在這裡我還是在跟你講這個事情你還是在跟本席報告這個事情所以這個已經沒有什麼拖不拖就是第一個叫你們怎麼管理啦你們內部對於這種分類有沒有意義譬如說你這個分類是有意義的因為我的標準要求不同那我的權利義務也不同那這樣當然有意義嘛就像你不會說我們蓋房子我們來分幾千萬以上叫豪宅豪宅的管理有豪宅的管理沒有它叫公寓大廈\n就你長那個樣子有樓梯有什麼他就供一大下不會再分豪宅的歸豪宅沒有嘛你就是那因為是為什麼因為他權利義務責任什麼都差不多啦而且地方政府在管一般觀光旅館跟旅館對對阿但是問題是修法在立法院嘛是你們行政單位怎麼去修法立法院來審查所以重點還是你們對於整個台灣的旅館業怎麼管理嘛是那第二個我再請教我們星級旅館一年我們編多少預算來做\n預算確實不多但是品牌沒關係不多是多少千萬還是百萬我們原則上大概就一千萬左右一千萬左右好那我再請教一下我看這個米其林他現在在做那個叫星藥就他的米其林一星二星三星這個米其林推薦這個是飲食餐飲那米其林現在對旅館他做這個藥食星藥\n這是另外一個系統對是另外一個系統跟飲食不一樣所以他用鑰匙一個用星星一個用鑰匙不一樣好那這個台灣我看公布裡面沒有台灣嗎我們目前並沒有跟他合作對那有沒有打算乾脆跟他合作我們要評估一下他的制度對就是很簡單因為我們的旅館的我們現在邏輯是這樣我不是說\n我對米其林我沒有什麼特別覺得他就一定好啦對我來講他就是不踩雷的代表啦就至少米其林推薦給你的不會是地雷啦但是你說好不好吃那個個人見仁見智好\n現在我要跟你討論為什麼我們的新籍旅館評鑑會一直下來是因為消費者從來沒有對新籍台灣的這個品牌叫做台灣觀光署發的新籍旅館評鑑它有任何象徵的意義特別是10年前我認為多少還有一點點10年後的今天我認為它毫無意義\n所以我的意思就是說花一千萬要打造這個品牌我認為難度很高就是你要打造到讓台灣的消費者國際消費者讓台灣認為星級旅館就是他的目標我覺得這個難所以你的第一個方法就是你要嘛你要做這些星級旅館你就不要弄那個什麼一千萬的啦外傳那個媒體寫的說跟米其林合作我們都花了六千萬在飲食的部分啦當然觀光局否認嘛我不去追究這個但重點是說\n我們要打造品牌你就要真的花心思去打造讓這個品牌國際觀光客、台灣觀光客認為這個是絕對是保證至少對我來講他不踩雷嘛是保證然後你最好能做到大家以這個為追求的指標譬如說很多人為什麼米其林我們台灣要做是因為很多米其林的愛好者他為了追星他專程坐飛機來台灣吃米其林啊所以米其林對台灣的光光義義在這裡嘛\n那回過頭來一樣的道理我們政府等於說我們在餐飲我們相信米其林可是我們在旅館上我們自己要搞一個旅館評鑑我們自己要搞一個星期旅館評鑑那你就要保證這個旅館評鑑你要搞得有聲有色讓大家至少他不要說贏米其林也不要說跟米其林一樣至少很接近大家也覺得喔這讚這個是有公信力這個是有價值的那旅館他花這個錢他才會來嗎\n主席已經站很久我不忍心讓他站太久了我只把我的想法先告訴部長跟局長跟署長一定要這樣做嘛不然你就二選一你就乾脆不要花這個錢你乾脆就找米其林來合作嘛或者你還有其他的這個評鑑單位也是全球公信力所有的\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n好,謝謝蔡委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.089 --> 00:32.543\n謝謝主席請陳部長陳部長請航政司跟航港局航港局業局長安市長跟業局長來市長部長、市長、局長大家好首先我先來請教一下那個野柳外海擱淺的那個中國籍貨輪\n\n00:34.444 --> 00:56.821\n現在的狀況怎麼樣今天早上我們的抽油船終於可以靠過去了前幾天其實每一天都有派抽油船過來但因為海象不允許它的海浪大概都到4米2米以下才可以作業那今天已經靠過去作業人員也都已經上去難船上面了已經開始在做前置作業了好那油抽完了之後接下來呢\n\n00:58.211 --> 01:23.863\n應該會在原地做拆解的動作是不是請局長各位報告我們現在最優先的就是把油抽完應該要化解這個污染的風險那第二個就是船貨的移除那我們會設法盡量除了這個限地拆解這個方案之外我們通常會設法讓它所謂的撫養的移除讓它能夠拖帶那個離開這個擱淺的位置\n\n01:27.644 --> 01:48.612\n現在是貨接下來油處理完了再來處理貨船跟貨船你要就地拆解掉嗎沒有我們會要求保險公司提出對環境影響最小的方案希望以拖走為優先但如果拖不走就必須要就地拆解局長國際上處理擱淺大家都怎麼處理\n\n01:55.228 --> 02:18.935\n我們現在以這個案子來講這個都是國際上知名的保險公司保險公司是一個問題保險公司那是事後等到事情到了結論之後該怎麼賠那保險公司要出面賠嘛那我的意思是說國際面對我舉個例子第一個船擱淺它可能漏油\n\n02:19.875 --> 02:28.949\n那我看我們能做的就是七早八早就把燃油省先弄出來嘛第二個如果貨上面載的是危險物品\n\n02:30.131 --> 02:52.220\n那這個可能問題更嚴重嘛因為他可能會有其他的污染甚至爆炸甚至我anyway不知道什麼問題啦反正上面的貨如果還是危險物品所以呢國際上的處理方式是跟我們一樣就是等著穩定之後先抽油再解決貨然後再處理影響最小的船看要怎麼處理\n\n02:53.724 --> 03:12.979\n國際都是這樣子嗎那國際有救援船臺灣臺灣到今天為止連一艘救援船都沒有嘛對我們派海巡去只是把人載走嘛對對於那一艘船怎麼處置我們其實是臺灣其實是無能為力的就簡單講他如果漏油我們就讓他漏漏完再來索賠嘛\n\n03:14.777 --> 03:32.149\n對包委這個部分就是現在我們比較欠缺的是拖船的能量對對對不管把它推到更外海或者拉進來我們都沒有嘛那現在國內的這個拖船都是港內型的對對對我們沒有那麼大的這個救援船嘛\n\n03:32.589 --> 03:46.790\n那根本就是說現在也在行政院的支持下在江部的支持下今年行政院已經核定了我們明明要來推動一艘大型的拖救船好那這個大型拖救船的營運是在\n\n03:49.190 --> 04:13.358\n港務公司嗎我們會招商那會有一家專業的廠商他會來負責這個好所以就明年開始我們開始打造第一艘臺灣的救援船是這樣的意思嗎下半年明年下半年是這樣的意思沒有錯是的第一艘好這個我的重點在這裡就是說我希望明年真的要落實這個事情臺灣對四面環海\n\n04:16.192 --> 04:39.504\n那每一年現在只是剛好我在關心這個問題的時候剛好有這個在野柳外海事實上之前7月10月我看陸續你們這個通報的這個事件裡面幾乎這個每一年都很多條船擱淺那我其實很不同意這種所謂我其實不同意這種事後大家再來看要怎麼處理\n\n04:40.504 --> 05:03.973\n就是他把臺灣譬如說在野柳外海甚至有一些更是海洋生態豐富的地方他把他汙染了然後我們汙染之後再開始人家說你要賠我錢我們應該是想辦法阻止他不要讓他汙染嘛所以我看國際的救援上面譬如說日本來講他可能是大型的救援船把那個擱淺的船推出去\n\n05:04.893 --> 05:11.059\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n05:29.689 --> 05:57.548\n已經事情發生了我們在講事後那個賠償我認為這個做法上消極委員所說的過去確實沒有這個拖船的設施這個確實只能消極處理那未來如果有拖船我們就可以積極處理所以部長這個一定要督促讓明年不管你們營運的方式是政府來經營或者政府跟民間合作或者你們直接要招標委託給民間經營不是都贊成但是重點就是說我們要趕快積極\n\n06:00.073 --> 06:28.033\n這個實在是說實在話今天講這個有稍微漏氣這個那麼久的時間然後我們四面環每一年都這種案例都那麼多但我們卻都是無能為力的方式在處理消極的方式在處理我覺得這個不妥所以這一次要來做這個事情本席是很支持的但我很擔心說搞就要做搞不要明年又來跟講說來立法院講說又遇到什麼問題又不能做明年下半年大概這艘船就能到了明年下半年就能到了\n\n06:28.732 --> 06:34.673\n好謝謝那請三位請回那接下來我請那個那個觀光署那個周署長委員好署長好署長我想齁這個本席八年的時間沒有待在交通委員會齁這個十年前我就在這個台上齁很非常關心那個旅館的那個星級認證那當時我就已經預測齁這個星級認證齁\n\n07:00.852 --> 07:24.559\n這個越來越糟糕業者第一個業者業者參與的程度越來越低有參與的人就算觀光署去鼓勵去鼓勵去拜託或者他自己有需求可是這個得到這個星期認證在消費者心目當中他已經是他已經不算一個事了啦就是現在的消費者對於\n\n07:26.175 --> 07:40.236\n我們這個交通部觀光署所做的這些星級認證大家已經不再是作為一個我住宿的指標所以長期下來這種叫惡性循環就我得獎也沒什麼\n\n07:41.547 --> 07:54.494\n那我參加了我要繳費然後我得到這個獎所以我就不參加啊不參加你看那個數目啊你看星期旅館那個那個認證的那個加數啊104年606到了113年這逐年一直下來嘛剩下100多\n\n08:02.210 --> 08:18.636\n我認為如果我們不理他就讓他繼續留在那裡不施任何的改進或者乾脆你把他廢掉嘛或者說你要把他留著很好我也不會反對那你要怎麼做讓他可以起死回生這個早晚就是歸零嘛\n\n08:19.156 --> 08:25.200\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n08:35.046 --> 08:36.707\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署\n\n08:51.377 --> 09:16.595\n所以我們也用澳洲的標準所以我們有一個五星Outstanding應該俗稱的六星級飯店所以這一次已經有兩家六星級的飯店那這個星級的部分我們也重新調配也就是它的KPI會不一樣所以現在就是說先整備的部分盤整的部分已經完成了那再來的話我們怎麼樣是\n\n09:17.756 --> 09:18.477\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園\n\n09:42.377 --> 10:02.325\n臺灣觀光協會臺灣觀光協會有很多新級旅館在裡面所以我們也希望透過臺灣觀光協會跟我們的新級旅館的這個協會做一些串接我們希望做一些鼓勵性的飲客那確實大家對新因為現在我們修法還在做也就是我們現在旅館有三種\n\n10:03.405 --> 10:27.238\n一個叫做國際觀光旅館一個叫做一般觀光旅館一個叫一般旅館可是我們這種分級其實不好旅館要國際化它一定是通盤往國際化走所以我們初步的話就把觀光旅館跟旅館分兩類然後就是走品牌所以這個新級的旅館確實要重新打造那我們希望\n\n10:28.279 --> 10:42.776\n真的需要一點時間然後我們會跟旅宿業一起合作市長其實這種分類在你們內部管理上這個也是10年前就討論的議題就10年前去定義什麼叫觀光旅館、一般旅館其實10年前大家就挑戰了\n\n10:43.937 --> 11:10.455\n這都是老生殘疾十年後我站在這裡我還是在跟你講這個事情你還是在跟本席報告這個事情所以這個已經沒有什麼拖不拖就是第一個叫你們怎麼管理啦你們內部對於這種分類有沒有意義譬如說你這個分類是有意義的因為我的標準要求不同那我的權利義務也不同那這樣當然有意義嘛就像你不會說我們蓋房子我們來分幾千萬以上叫豪宅豪宅的管理有豪宅的管理沒有它叫公寓大廈\n\n11:12.145 --> 11:39.745\n就你長那個樣子有樓梯有什麼他就供一大下不會再分豪宅的歸豪宅沒有嘛你就是那因為是為什麼因為他權利義務責任什麼都差不多啦而且地方政府在管一般觀光旅館跟旅館對對阿但是問題是修法在立法院嘛是你們行政單位怎麼去修法立法院來審查所以重點還是你們對於整個台灣的旅館業怎麼管理嘛是那第二個我再請教我們星級旅館一年我們編多少預算來做\n\n11:40.923 --> 12:05.160\n預算確實不多但是品牌沒關係不多是多少千萬還是百萬我們原則上大概就一千萬左右一千萬左右好那我再請教一下我看這個米其林他現在在做那個叫星藥就他的米其林一星二星三星這個米其林推薦這個是飲食餐飲那米其林現在對旅館他做這個藥食星藥\n\n12:09.438 --> 12:31.043\n這是另外一個系統對是另外一個系統跟飲食不一樣所以他用鑰匙一個用星星一個用鑰匙不一樣好那這個台灣我看公布裡面沒有台灣嗎我們目前並沒有跟他合作對那有沒有打算乾脆跟他合作我們要評估一下他的制度對就是很簡單因為我們的旅館的我們現在邏輯是這樣我不是說\n\n12:32.545 --> 12:46.820\n我對米其林我沒有什麼特別覺得他就一定好啦對我來講他就是不踩雷的代表啦就至少米其林推薦給你的不會是地雷啦但是你說好不好吃那個個人見仁見智好\n\n12:47.781 --> 13:07.044\n現在我要跟你討論為什麼我們的新籍旅館評鑑會一直下來是因為消費者從來沒有對新籍台灣的這個品牌叫做台灣觀光署發的新籍旅館評鑑它有任何象徵的意義特別是10年前我認為多少還有一點點10年後的今天我認為它毫無意義\n\n13:07.845 --> 13:36.311\n所以我的意思就是說花一千萬要打造這個品牌我認為難度很高就是你要打造到讓台灣的消費者國際消費者讓台灣認為星級旅館就是他的目標我覺得這個難所以你的第一個方法就是你要嘛你要做這些星級旅館你就不要弄那個什麼一千萬的啦外傳那個媒體寫的說跟米其林合作我們都花了六千萬在飲食的部分啦當然觀光局否認嘛我不去追究這個但重點是說\n\n13:37.540 --> 14:02.462\n我們要打造品牌你就要真的花心思去打造讓這個品牌國際觀光客、台灣觀光客認為這個是絕對是保證至少對我來講他不踩雷嘛是保證然後你最好能做到大家以這個為追求的指標譬如說很多人為什麼米其林我們台灣要做是因為很多米其林的愛好者他為了追星他專程坐飛機來台灣吃米其林啊所以米其林對台灣的光光義義在這裡嘛\n\n14:04.312 --> 14:29.828\n那回過頭來一樣的道理我們政府等於說我們在餐飲我們相信米其林可是我們在旅館上我們自己要搞一個旅館評鑑我們自己要搞一個星期旅館評鑑那你就要保證這個旅館評鑑你要搞得有聲有色讓大家至少他不要說贏米其林也不要說跟米其林一樣至少很接近大家也覺得喔這讚這個是有公信力這個是有價值的那旅館他花這個錢他才會來嗎\n\n14:31.705 --> 14:48.794\n主席已經站很久我不忍心讓他站太久了我只把我的想法先告訴部長跟局長跟署長一定要這樣做嘛不然你就二選一你就乾脆不要花這個錢你乾脆就找米其林來合作嘛或者你還有其他的這個評鑑單位也是全球公信力所有的\n\n14:49.494 --> 14:54.478\n有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司\n\n15:17.694 --> 15:18.140\n好,謝謝蔡委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.089,"end":32.543,"text":"謝謝主席請陳部長陳部長請航政司跟航港局航港局業局長安市長跟業局長來市長部長、市長、局長大家好首先我先來請教一下那個野柳外海擱淺的那個中國籍貨輪"},{"start":34.444,"end":56.821,"text":"現在的狀況怎麼樣今天早上我們的抽油船終於可以靠過去了前幾天其實每一天都有派抽油船過來但因為海象不允許它的海浪大概都到4米2米以下才可以作業那今天已經靠過去作業人員也都已經上去難船上面了已經開始在做前置作業了好 那油抽完了之後接下來呢"},{"start":58.211,"end":83.863,"text":"應該會在原地做拆解的動作是不是請局長各位報告我們現在最優先的就是把油抽完應該要化解這個污染的風險那第二個就是船貨的移除那我們會設法盡量除了這個限地拆解這個方案之外我們通常會設法讓它所謂的撫養的移除讓它能夠拖帶那個離開這個擱淺的位置"},{"start":87.644,"end":108.612,"text":"現在是貨接下來油處理完了再來處理貨船跟貨船你要就地拆解掉嗎沒有我們會要求保險公司提出對環境影響最小的方案希望以拖走為優先但如果拖不走就必須要就地拆解局長國際上處理擱淺大家都怎麼處理"},{"start":115.228,"end":138.935,"text":"我們現在以這個案子來講這個都是國際上知名的保險公司保險公司是一個問題保險公司那是事後等到事情到了結論之後該怎麼賠那保險公司要出面賠嘛那我的意思是說國際面對我舉個例子第一個船擱淺它可能漏油"},{"start":139.875,"end":148.949,"text":"那我看我們能做的就是七早八早就把燃油省先弄出來嘛第二個如果貨上面載的是危險物品"},{"start":150.131,"end":172.22,"text":"那這個可能問題更嚴重嘛因為他可能會有其他的污染甚至爆炸甚至我anyway不知道什麼問題啦反正上面的貨如果還是危險物品所以呢國際上的處理方式是跟我們一樣就是等著穩定之後先抽油再解決貨然後再處理影響最小的船看要怎麼處理"},{"start":173.724,"end":192.979,"text":"國際都是這樣子嗎那國際有救援船臺灣臺灣到今天為止連一艘救援船都沒有嘛對我們派海巡去只是把人載走嘛對對於那一艘船怎麼處置我們其實是臺灣其實是無能為力的就簡單講他如果漏油我們就讓他漏漏完再來索賠嘛"},{"start":194.777,"end":212.149,"text":"對 包委 這個部分就是現在我們比較欠缺的是拖船的能量對對對不管把它推到更外海或者拉進來我們都沒有嘛那現在國內的這個拖船都是港內型的對對對 我們沒有那麼大的這個救援船嘛"},{"start":212.589,"end":226.79,"text":"那根本就是說現在也在行政院的支持下在江部的支持下今年行政院已經核定了我們明明要來推動一艘大型的拖救船好那這個大型拖救船的營運是在"},{"start":229.19,"end":253.358,"text":"港務公司嗎我們會招商那會有一家專業的廠商他會來負責這個好所以就明年開始我們開始打造第一艘臺灣的救援船是這樣的意思嗎下半年明年下半年是這樣的意思沒有錯是的第一艘好這個我的重點在這裡就是說我希望明年真的要落實這個事情臺灣對四面環海"},{"start":256.192,"end":279.504,"text":"那每一年現在只是剛好我在關心這個問題的時候剛好有這個在野柳外海事實上之前7月10月我看陸續你們這個通報的這個事件裡面幾乎這個每一年都很多條船擱淺那我其實很不同意這種所謂我其實不同意這種事後大家再來看要怎麼處理"},{"start":280.504,"end":303.973,"text":"就是他把臺灣譬如說在野柳外海甚至有一些更是海洋生態豐富的地方他把他汙染了然後我們汙染之後再開始人家說你要賠我錢我們應該是想辦法阻止他不要讓他汙染嘛所以我看國際的救援上面譬如說日本來講他可能是大型的救援船把那個擱淺的船推出去"},{"start":304.893,"end":311.059,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署"},{"start":329.689,"end":357.548,"text":"已經事情發生了我們在講事後那個賠償我認為這個做法上消極委員所說的過去確實沒有這個拖船的設施這個確實只能消極處理那未來如果有拖船我們就可以積極處理所以部長這個一定要督促讓明年不管你們營運的方式是政府來經營或者政府跟民間合作或者你們直接要招標委託給民間經營不是都贊成但是重點就是說我們要趕快積極"},{"start":360.073,"end":388.033,"text":"這個實在是說實在話今天講這個有稍微漏氣這個那麼久的時間然後我們四面環每一年都這種案例都那麼多但我們卻都是無能為力的方式在處理消極的方式在處理我覺得這個不妥所以這一次要來做這個事情本席是很支持的但我很擔心說搞就要做搞不要明年又來跟講說來立法院講說又遇到什麼問題又不能做明年下半年大概這艘船就能到了明年下半年就能到了"},{"start":388.732,"end":394.673,"text":"好謝謝那請三位請回那接下來我請那個那個觀光署那個周署長委員好署長好署長我想齁這個本席八年的時間沒有待在交通委員會齁這個十年前我就在這個台上齁很非常關心那個旅館的那個星級認證那當時我就已經預測齁這個星級認證齁"},{"start":420.852,"end":444.559,"text":"這個越來越糟糕業者第一個業者業者參與的程度越來越低有參與的人就算觀光署去鼓勵去鼓勵去拜託或者他自己有需求可是這個得到這個星期認證在消費者心目當中他已經是他已經不算一個事了啦就是現在的消費者對於"},{"start":446.175,"end":460.236,"text":"我們這個交通部觀光署所做的這些星級認證大家已經不再是作為一個我住宿的指標所以長期下來這種叫惡性循環就我得獎也沒什麼"},{"start":461.547,"end":474.494,"text":"那我參加了我要繳費然後我得到這個獎所以我就不參加啊不參加你看那個數目啊你看星期旅館那個那個認證的那個加數啊104年606到了113年這逐年一直下來嘛剩下100多"},{"start":482.21,"end":498.636,"text":"我認為如果我們不理他就讓他繼續留在那裡不施任何的改進或者乾脆你把他廢掉嘛或者說你要把他留著很好我也不會反對那你要怎麼做讓他可以起死回生這個早晚就是歸零嘛"},{"start":499.156,"end":505.2,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署"},{"start":515.046,"end":516.707,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署"},{"start":531.377,"end":556.595,"text":"所以我們也用澳洲的標準所以我們有一個五星Outstanding應該俗稱的六星級飯店所以這一次已經有兩家六星級的飯店那這個星級的部分我們也重新調配也就是它的KPI會不一樣所以現在就是說先整備的部分盤整的部分已經完成了那再來的話我們怎麼樣是"},{"start":557.756,"end":558.477,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園"},{"start":582.377,"end":602.325,"text":"臺灣觀光協會臺灣觀光協會有很多新級旅館在裡面所以我們也希望透過臺灣觀光協會跟我們的新級旅館的這個協會做一些串接我們希望做一些鼓勵性的飲客那確實大家對新因為現在我們修法還在做也就是我們現在旅館有三種"},{"start":603.405,"end":627.238,"text":"一個叫做國際觀光旅館一個叫做一般觀光旅館一個叫一般旅館可是我們這種分級其實不好旅館要國際化它一定是通盤往國際化走所以我們初步的話就把觀光旅館跟旅館分兩類然後就是走品牌所以這個新級的旅館確實要重新打造那我們希望"},{"start":628.279,"end":642.776,"text":"真的需要一點時間然後我們會跟旅宿業一起合作市長其實這種分類在你們內部管理上這個也是10年前就討論的議題就10年前去定義什麼叫觀光旅館、一般旅館其實10年前大家就挑戰了"},{"start":643.937,"end":670.455,"text":"這都是老生殘疾十年後我站在這裡我還是在跟你講這個事情你還是在跟本席報告這個事情所以這個已經沒有什麼拖不拖就是第一個叫你們怎麼管理啦你們內部對於這種分類有沒有意義譬如說你這個分類是有意義的因為我的標準要求不同那我的權利義務也不同那這樣當然有意義嘛就像你不會說我們蓋房子我們來分幾千萬以上叫豪宅豪宅的管理有豪宅的管理沒有它叫公寓大廈"},{"start":672.145,"end":699.745,"text":"就你長那個樣子有樓梯有什麼他就供一大下不會再分豪宅的歸豪宅沒有嘛你就是那因為是為什麼因為他權利義務責任什麼都差不多啦而且地方政府在管一般觀光旅館跟旅館對對阿但是問題是修法在立法院嘛是你們行政單位怎麼去修法立法院來審查所以重點還是你們對於整個台灣的旅館業怎麼管理嘛是那第二個我再請教我們星級旅館一年我們編多少預算來做"},{"start":700.923,"end":725.16,"text":"預算確實不多但是品牌沒關係不多是多少千萬還是百萬我們原則上大概就一千萬左右一千萬左右好那我再請教一下我看這個米其林他現在在做那個叫星藥就他的米其林一星二星三星這個米其林推薦這個是飲食餐飲那米其林現在對旅館他做這個藥食星藥"},{"start":729.438,"end":751.043,"text":"這是另外一個系統對是另外一個系統跟飲食不一樣所以他用鑰匙一個用星星一個用鑰匙不一樣好那這個台灣我看公布裡面沒有台灣嗎我們目前並沒有跟他合作對那有沒有打算乾脆跟他合作我們要評估一下他的制度對就是很簡單因為我們的旅館的我們現在邏輯是這樣我不是說"},{"start":752.545,"end":766.82,"text":"我對米其林我沒有什麼特別覺得他就一定好啦對我來講他就是不踩雷的代表啦就至少米其林推薦給你的不會是地雷啦但是你說好不好吃那個個人見仁見智好"},{"start":767.781,"end":787.044,"text":"現在我要跟你討論為什麼我們的新籍旅館評鑑會一直下來是因為消費者從來沒有對新籍台灣的這個品牌叫做台灣觀光署發的新籍旅館評鑑它有任何象徵的意義特別是10年前我認為多少還有一點點10年後的今天我認為它毫無意義"},{"start":787.845,"end":816.311,"text":"所以我的意思就是說花一千萬要打造這個品牌我認為難度很高就是你要打造到讓台灣的消費者國際消費者讓台灣認為星級旅館就是他的目標我覺得這個難所以你的第一個方法就是你要嘛你要做這些星級旅館你就不要弄那個什麼一千萬的啦外傳那個媒體寫的說跟米其林合作我們都花了六千萬在飲食的部分啦當然觀光局否認嘛我不去追究這個但重點是說"},{"start":817.54,"end":842.462,"text":"我們要打造品牌你就要真的花心思去打造讓這個品牌國際觀光客、台灣觀光客認為這個是絕對是保證至少對我來講他不踩雷嘛是保證然後你最好能做到大家以這個為追求的指標譬如說很多人為什麼米其林我們台灣要做是因為很多米其林的愛好者他為了追星他專程坐飛機來台灣吃米其林啊所以米其林對台灣的光光義義在這裡嘛"},{"start":844.312,"end":869.828,"text":"那回過頭來一樣的道理我們政府等於說我們在餐飲我們相信米其林可是我們在旅館上我們自己要搞一個旅館評鑑我們自己要搞一個星期旅館評鑑那你就要保證這個旅館評鑑你要搞得有聲有色讓大家至少他不要說贏米其林也不要說跟米其林一樣至少很接近大家也覺得喔這讚這個是有公信力這個是有價值的那旅館他花這個錢他才會來嗎"},{"start":871.705,"end":888.794,"text":"主席已經站很久我不忍心讓他站太久了我只把我的想法先告訴部長跟局長跟署長一定要這樣做嘛不然你就二選一你就乾脆不要花這個錢你乾脆就找米其林來合作嘛或者你還有其他的這個評鑑單位也是全球公信力所有的"},{"start":889.494,"end":894.478,"text":"有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司董事長、外交部國家公園署有限公司"},{"start":917.694,"end":918.14,"text":"好,謝謝蔡委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":756,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（11時48分）謝謝主席，請陳部長、航政司韓司長跟航港局葉局長。"],["主席：請陳部長、航港局葉局長跟司長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長、司長、局長，大家好。首先我先請教一下，擱淺在野柳外海的中國籍貨輪，現在的狀況怎麼樣？"],["陳部長世凱：今天早上我們的抽油船終於可以靠過去了，前幾天其實每一天都有派抽油船過來，但因為海象不允許，它的海浪大概都到4米，要2米以下才可以作業，今天已經靠過去，作業人員也都已經上去難船上了，已經開始在做前置作業了。"],["蔡委員其昌：好。那油抽完了之後接下來呢？"],["陳部長世凱：應該會在原地做拆解的動作，是不是請局長說明？"],["蔡委員其昌：來，局長。"],["葉局長協隆：跟委員報告，我們現在最優先的任務就是把油抽完，因為要化解污染的風險。第二個就是船貨的移除，我們會設法儘量，除了現地拆解這個方案之外，我們通常會設法以浮揚方式移除，讓它能夠被拖帶離開這個擱淺的位置。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，你現在先處理油，接下來油處理完了，再來處理貨？"],["葉局長協隆：船跟貨。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，那船你要就地拆解掉嗎？"],["葉局長協隆：沒有，我們會要求保險公司提出對環境影響最小的方案。"],["陳部長世凱：希望以拖走為優先，但是如果拖不走，就必須要就地拆解。"],["蔡委員其昌：OK，局長，在國際上處理擱淺，大家都是怎麼處理？"],["葉局長協隆：報告委員，以這個案子來講，這個都是國際上知名的保險公司，所以……"],["蔡委員其昌：保險公司是一個問題，保險公司那是事後等到事情有了結論之後看該怎麼賠，那保險公司要出面賠嘛！"],["葉局長協隆：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：我的意思是說國際面對……我舉一個例子，第一個，船擱淺後可能會漏油，我看我們能做的就是七早八早就把攔油繩先弄出來。"],["葉局長協隆：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：第二個，如果貨輪上面載的是危險物品，那可能問題更嚴重，因為可能會有其他的污染，甚至爆炸，anyway，反正上面的貨如果是危險物品，不知道會有什麼問題，所以國際上的處理方式是跟我們一樣，就是等到穩定之後，先抽油再解決貨，然後再處理，看要怎麼處理對船的影響最小，在國際上都是這樣子嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，那國際有救援船，臺灣到今天為止連一艘救援船都沒有，我們派海巡去只是把人載走，對於那一艘船怎麼處置我們臺灣其實是無能為力的，簡單講，它如果漏油，我們就讓它漏，等漏完再來索賠嘛！"],["葉局長協隆：對，報告委員，這個部分現在我們比較欠缺的是拖船的能量。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，不管是把它推到更外海或者拉進來，我們都沒有嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["葉局長協隆：現在國內的拖船都是港內型的。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，我們沒有那麼大的救援船。"],["葉局長協隆：跟委員報告，在行政院的支持下、在交通部的支持下，今年行政院已經核定我們明年要來推動一艘大型的拖救船。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，那這個大型拖救船的營運是在港務公司嗎？"],["葉局長協隆：沒有，我們會招商，會有一家專業的廠商來負責操作。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，所以從明年我們開始打造第一艘臺灣的救援船，是這樣的意思嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：明年下半年。"],["葉局長協隆：是的，是第一艘。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，我的重點就是我希望明年真的要落實這個事情。"],["陳部長世凱：是，明年下半年會招商。"],["蔡委員其昌：因為臺灣四面環海，我在關心這個問題的時候剛好在野柳外海有這個事件，事實上，之前在7月、10月你們陸續通報的事件……"],["陳部長世凱：是，已經好幾艘了。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，幾乎每一年都有很多條船擱淺，我其實很不同意在事後大家再來看要怎麼處理，在臺灣譬如說野柳外海，甚至有一些更是海洋生態豐富的地方，它污染了這些地方，然後我們在污染之後再開始跟人家說你要賠我錢，我們應該是想辦法阻止，不要讓它污染嘛！我看國際的救援，譬如說以日本來講，可能是用大型的救援船把那個擱淺的船推出去，或者如果可以拉進來處理的，就把它拉進來，不管是往外推、往內拉，人家都有積極作為的方法，可是我們的方法就是沒有作為，反正我就給它爛，爛了之後我們再來講你要賠我多少，可是我們都知道，對海洋的污染、對於生態，我們現在談SDGs、談ESG，那事情都已經發生了，我們才在事後講那個賠償，我認為這個作法上消極。"],["陳部長世凱：對，就像委員所說的，過去沒有這個拖船的設施，確實只能消極處理。"],["蔡委員其昌：沒有錯。"],["陳部長世凱：未來如果有拖船，我們就可以積極處理。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，部長，這個一定要督促，明年不管你們營運的方式是政府來經營，或者是政府跟民間合作，或者你們直接招標、委託給民間經營，本席都贊成，但是重點就是我們要趕快積極來做，說實在話，臺灣在今天講的這個方面有一點漏氣，已經那麼久的時間，然後我們四面環海，每一年這種案例都那麼多，但我們卻都是以無能為力的方式在處理，以消極的方式在處理，我覺得這個不妥。所以你們這一次要來做這個事情，本席是很支持，但是我會很擔心，說到就要做到，不要等明年來立法院的時候說又遇到什麼問題。"],["陳部長世凱：在明年下半年大概這艘船就能到了。"],["蔡委員其昌：OK，謝謝，三位請回。接下來我請觀光署署長。"],["主席：請周署長。"],["周署長永暉：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：署長好。署長，本席已經8年時間沒有待在交通委員會，在10年前我就在這個臺上非常關心旅館的星級認證，在當時我就已經預測這個星級認證會越來越糟糕，第一個，業者參與的程度越來越低，有參與的人，就算觀光署去鼓勵、去拜託，或者他自己有需求，可是得到星級認證在消費者心目當中已經不算一個事了，現在消費者對於交通部觀光署所做的星級認證已經不再作為一個住宿的指標，所以長期下來這種就叫惡性循環，就是我得獎也沒什麼，我參加了就要繳費，然後我得到這個獎我也沒有好處，所以我就不參加，因為都不參加，你看星級旅館那個認證的家數，在104年是606家，逐年一直下降，到了113年剩下一百多家。我認為如果我們不理它，就讓它繼續留在那裡，不思任何的改進，或者你乾脆把它廢掉，或者你要把它留著，很好！我也不會反對，但是你就要看怎麼做來讓它可以起死回生，否則這個早晚就是歸零，就會越來越少，到了一個懸崖邊，它就會直接快速下降，比如說到最後剩下三、五十家，那三、五十家可能隔年就歸零了，因為就是沒用，做這個要幹嘛呢？所以第一個我想要讓署長來重視這個問題。"],["周署長永暉：是，跟委員報告一下，星級旅館還是非常重要的，在疫情之後星級旅館確實是急速的下降，也利用這個機會跟委員報告一下，其實我們有做了兩件事，第一個，我們跟國際接軌，我們也用澳洲的標準，所以我們有一個五星outstanding的，應該是俗稱的六星級飯店，這一次已經有兩家六星級的飯店，對這個星級的部分我們也重新調配，也就是它的KPI會不一樣，所以現在就是整備的部分、盤整的部分已經完成了。再來是我們怎麼樣做到double，就是我們怎麼樣把星級旅館變成一個重要的品牌，在這個部分，我們第二階段希望星級旅館跟我們的旅宿網……因為旅宿網還推了類似平價的旅館，它都是合法的，而且是對大家有保障的。剛剛正好召委也是關心台灣觀光協會，那台灣觀光協會也有很多星級旅館在裡面，所以我們也希望透過台灣觀光協會跟我們星級旅館的協會做一些串接，我們希望做一些鼓勵性的引客，現在我們還在做修法，我們現在有三種旅館，一個叫做國際觀光旅館，一個叫做一般觀光旅館，一個叫一般旅館，可是我們這種分級其實不好，因為旅館要國際化，它一定是通盤往國際化走，所以我們初步就把觀光旅館跟旅館分兩類，然後就是走品牌，所以這個星級的旅館確實要重新打造，我們真的需要一點時間，我們會跟旅宿業一起合作。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，署長，其實這種分類在你們內部管理上，這個也是10年前就在討論的議題，就是10年前去定義什麼叫觀光旅館、一般旅館，其實在10年前大家就挑戰了，這都是老生常談，可是10年後我站在這裡，我還是在跟你講這個事情，你還是在跟本席報告這個事情，所以這個已經沒有什麼拖不拖，第一個就是你們怎麼管理，你們內部對於這種分類有沒有意義，譬如說你這個分類是有意義的，因為我的標準、要求不同，我的權利義務也不同，這樣當然有意義嘛！就像我們蓋房子，你不會說我們來分幾千萬以上叫豪宅，然後對豪宅有不同的管理，沒有！它叫公寓大廈，就是長那個樣子，有樓梯、有什麼，它就是公寓大廈，不會再去分它是不是豪宅，沒有嘛！為什麼？因為它的權利義務、責任什麼都差不多啦！"],["周署長永暉：而且是地方政府在管一般觀光旅館跟旅館。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，但是問題是修法在立法院，看你們行政單位怎麼去修法，由立法院來審查，所以重點還是你們對於整個台灣的旅館業怎麼管理嘛！"],["周署長永暉：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：第二個我再請教，我們星級旅館一年編多少預算來做？"],["周署長永暉：預算確實不多，但是品牌……"],["蔡委員其昌：沒關係，不多是多少？千萬還是百萬？"],["周署長永暉：原則上大概就1,000萬左右。"],["蔡委員其昌：1,000萬左右？"],["周署長永暉：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，那我再請教一下，我看這個米其林現在在做「星鑰」，米其林一星、二星、三星及米其林推薦是針對餐飲，針對旅館則是星鑰。"],["周署長永暉：這是另外一個系統。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，是另外一個系統，跟飲食不一樣，它用鑰匙。一個用星星，一個用鑰匙，不一樣。我看他們公布的資料裡面沒有臺灣嘛！"],["周署長永暉：我們目前並沒有跟它合作。"],["蔡委員其昌：有沒有打算乾脆跟它合作？"],["周署長永暉：我們要評估一下它的制度。"],["蔡委員其昌：很簡單嘛……"],["周署長永暉：因為我們旅館的……"],["蔡委員其昌：署長，我們現在的邏輯是這樣，我對米其林並沒有特別覺得它就一定好，對我來講，它就是不踩雷的代表，至少米其林推薦的不會是地雷，但是你說好不好吃？那就看個人、見仁見智。好，現在我要跟你討論，為什麼我們的星級旅館評鑑家數會一直減少？是因為消費者從來沒有認為台灣品牌，也就是他們不認為台灣觀光署發布的星級旅館評鑑有任何象徵的意義，十年前我認為多少還有一點點，十年後的今天，我認為它毫無意義。所以我的意思就是說，花1,000萬要打造這個品牌，我認為難度很高，因為你要打造到讓台灣的消費者和國際消費者來到台灣，認為星級旅館就是他的目標，我覺得這個很難。所以你的第一個方法，就是要做星級旅館評鑑的話，就不要弄那個什麼1,000萬的啦！媒體寫的，外傳我們跟米其林合作花了6,000萬，這是在飲食的部分，當然觀光署否認，我也不去追究這個，但重點是說，我們要打造品牌就要真的花心思去打造，讓這個品牌被國際觀光客、台灣觀光客認為絕對是有保證的，至少對我來講，它不踩雷、是有保證的，然後你最好能做到大家以這個為追求的指標。","譬如說，為什麼我們台灣要做米其林？因為很多米其林的愛好者為了追星，會專程坐飛機來台灣吃米其林啊！所以米其林對台灣的觀光意義在這裡。回過頭來也是一樣的道理，等於餐飲方面我們相信米其林，可是在旅館方面，我們自己要搞一個星級旅館評鑑，那你就要保證這個旅館評鑑要搞得有聲有色，不要說贏米其林，也不要說跟米其林一樣，可是讓它至少很接近，這樣大家也會覺得這個讚！它是有公信力、有價值的，旅館花了這個錢，觀光客才會來嘛！","主席已經站很久了，我不忍心讓他站太久啦！我只是把我的想法告訴部長跟署長，一定要這樣做嘛！不然你就二選一，乾脆不要花這個錢，就找米其林來合作嘛！或者還有其他的評鑑單位也在全球具有公信力，所有的旅宿業者或者是所有的旅客都會因為是它推薦的品牌而想去住一下，這個就是觀光啊！當旅客人數不夠多的時候，大家為什麼要在餐飲方面跟米其林合作，以及在旅館方面跟星鑰合作？就是因為經過它認證，就會有誘因讓人家為此而來。OK，參考一下，好不好？時間到了，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蔡委員。","接下來有請徐富癸委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-8","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林沛祥","林國成","何欣純","游顥","陳素月","林俊憲","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","許智傑","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","麥玉珍","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","陳俊宇","林月琴","陳冠廷","黃國昌","林倩綺","黃健豪"],"page_start":121,"meetingDate":["2024-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部觀光署署長、交通部民用航空局局長、交通部航港局局長、\n國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長、桃園國際機場股份有限\n公司董事長、臺灣港務股份有限公司董事長、外交部、內政部國家公園署、農業部林業及自然保\n育署及行政院消費者保護處就「如何提升國外旅客來台觀光人數暨優化國旅體驗及降低旅遊消費\n爭議」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部觀光署署長、交通部公路局局長、交通部高速\n公路局局長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長及桃園國際\n機場股份有限公司董事長就「2025台灣燈會辦理情形暨交通疏運方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139301_00002"}}}