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\"什\", \"start\": 609.731, \"end\": 610.192, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 610.192, \"end\": 610.272, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 610.272, \"end\": 610.292, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 610.292, \"end\": 610.312, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 628.351, \"end\": 654.465, \"text\": \"當這個社工被靠上所靠的那一剎那我相信衛生部很多同仁應該心有戚戚焉吧怎麼會這樣我再講一個數據 2020年有兩成的社工在執行業務時遭受人身的危害每五名就有一個社工遭受安全危害每三天就有一位社工受到這個威脅\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 628.351, \"end\": 628.491, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 628.491, \"end\": 628.712, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 628.712, \"end\": 628.872, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"靠\", \"start\": 628.872, \"end\": 629.072, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 629.072, \"end\": 629.772, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 629.772, \"end\": 629.952, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"靠\", 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00:01:13,249\n據說我們有強化這個社會安全網第二期計畫那分年來補助地方政府部建社區心理衛生中心及充實心衛中心能力至113年10月底就今年10月底全國社區心理衛生中心已累計52處那每一縣市均以至少設有1處那預計114年要將部建到71處\n\n4\n00:01:16,691 --> 00:01:28,303\n另外補助禁用心理師、職能治療師、護理師、心理輔導員、心理衛生社工及關懷訪視員等心理衛生人力。\n\n5\n00:01:30,387 --> 00:01:51,580\n一百一十年計有五百九十位,到一百一十三年的十月,要增加到,已經增加到一千四百五十位,然後到一百一十年將增加到兩千四百八十九位。這個總共有六個類別的這些專業人士,那這個報告你把它全部都混在一塊。\n\n6\n00:01:52,372 --> 00:02:15,385\n我不曉得這是什麼意思然後我們也很難去精算到底是心理護導員你要增進多少然後這個心理衛生的社工生你要增加多少我看不出來但是我如果說以明年來平均每一個職業別基本上就是會增加到414人嘛對不對他們要來照顧這個全國的心理衛生問題喔這樣夠不夠\n\n7\n00:02:18,683 --> 00:02:22,762\n每一個人的承擔負擔的這個以往的這樣的一個建樹\n\n8\n00:02:23,908 --> 00:02:52,847\n即便你增加到這樣的,夠不夠?因為你寫這樣,我只有籠統的來跟你請教嘛。我不曉得律師要負責多少,護理師要負責多少,然後心理護長要負責多少,對不對?然後,再給部長看第二個資料啦,就一樣強化這第二期裡面,112年的這個衛福部直接補助地方政府禁用心理衛生社工含督導是291人。那提供精神疾病與自殺防治合併多重議題,\n\n9\n00:02:53,847 --> 00:02:54,248\n這承受得起來嗎?這承受得起來嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:14,531 --> 00:03:43,573\n那個委員白委員是不是我們請針對這個問題跟你報告一下謝謝委員關切我們新衛社工的工作負擔那我的確沒有錯委員這邊提呃這個呈現出來是我們新衛社工的人數是291人是在112年的時候那這個服務呢是指我去仿試的次數不是仿試的人數仿試的次數對因為每一個人可能會仿好幾次所以他不是人數是次數\n\n11\n00:03:46,551 --> 00:03:47,792\n所以因為這樣區分起來壓力就不一樣了壓力就落差很大\n\n12\n00:03:52,478 --> 00:04:16,389\n是這樣嗎?你要打呼我是這樣嗎?你現在是要緩博我嗎?是不是?不是。不然你這個想法我聽起來就有點怪怪的啊。這邊是。他的人次就是2169,216嘛對不對?21萬多嘛對不對?216349,你講,沒關係你再講一次。這個是服務量。我們提供了這麼多訪視的次數。那就更糟糕了。你這些人要做這麼多的事情。\n\n13\n00:04:18,753 --> 00:04:38,174\n跟委員報告如果是以這個個案的負擔的那個案量比來講的話我們一個新衛社工在去年平均下來大概是1比28也就是說我一個新衛社工我大概服務28個這個合併有保護案件的這個精神病人所以你現在答問我是說1比28是合理的一個比例\n\n14\n00:04:42,096 --> 00:05:09,248\n這個離我們的目標還是要再加油因為我們希望說我們希望能夠把這個比例降到1比25左右1比25喔對你這麼講好像好像不是這麼嚴重的感覺齁1比28是現狀那你們要加油到可以調可以來調到1比25所以應該這些心理社公司基本上壓力都沒有這麼大是這樣嗎這個都有現場轉播的喔\n\n15\n00:05:10,669 --> 00:05:14,931\n你先講合理的負擔的比例是多少你要達成的目標明年要達成目標1比25這是另外一件事情正常的情況之下參照先進的國家\n\n16\n00:05:36,002 --> 00:05:59,682\n這個心理施工師應該要比例是多少?一比多少?是正常的?我們有參考國外的資料一比二十的是比較常見所以我們現在就是說當然我們目前國內的人力還是相對不足但是也沒有辦法一步到位所以我們是逐年的來禁用我們心衛社工的人力\n\n17\n00:06:01,484 --> 00:06:11,716\n對,所以1比28到1比20你明年要到1比25對不對那你什麼時候可以到1比20才是一個參考國外的這樣的一個經驗是比較合理的\n\n18\n00:06:47,140 --> 00:06:49,463\n社安網二期計畫是到明年底結束,所以新的一期會在1、15年開始?\n\n19\n00:07:08,772 --> 00:07:32,574\n所以現在,所以我們1月5年就可以達到1比20,是不是這樣?明年是1比25嗎?希望,希望我們會努力,因為這個人員的禁用,不是說我們要...可是妳是行政機關,妳不能跟我講做希望,妳跟我講希望我就覺得沒有希望了。因為我們不可能說要,就是說我們要禁用的人數,然後為地方政府馬上就可以禁用到,他們還是有實務的這個禁用的一個期程,所以不可能說我們一下子補...\n\n20\n00:07:35,215 --> 00:08:02,134\n我讓部長知道有這個事情啦好不好我覺得我們一定努力因為部長你現在是社公司的社公司的大家長你現在身份嘛對不對跟以前不一樣我要講你們講說有機會才有機會這個寫的這個報導出來的嘛有機會好好去處理每一個個案的狀況是要降到1比20嘛那等於緩資嘛對不對現在跟明年\n\n21\n00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:07,041\n甚至於未來的後年115年都沒有機會好好去處理每一個個案。我這樣講你應該沒有辦法反駁我吧?\n\n22\n00:08:16,089 --> 00:08:16,609\n我可以這麼講嗎?對不對?\n\n23\n00:08:39,747 --> 00:09:04,906\n一下子剛剛市長這邊報告一下子要達到這個目標恐怕的確困難那的確這是事實好好如果要降到1.2才能好好去處理這是每一個個案這也是我們工作同仁的因為我們強化這個社會安全網明年明年是到第二期有各種管道來幫助這些個案讓我們的某一個譬如說心理社會這一個\n\n24\n00:09:06,187 --> 00:09:33,399\n負擔不要那麼重,多元化大家互相來支持。現在都是講這個團隊作戰的啦。沒有啦,柏中,我時間在管的啦。我告訴你,因為我講好好的處理每一個個案,我現在講兩件好好的沒有辦法處理每一個個案。第一個,就突然發生這個事件嘛。就傳出生產者在這邊的社工直接詢問受害者家屬要不要去和解啦。其實做法上是非常粗糙嘛,引起社會嘩然,但是我不忍苛責。\n\n25\n00:09:35,090 --> 00:09:51,055\n社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。其中過失致死的理由,社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精\n\n26\n00:10:00,848 --> 00:10:10,312\n那這個社工未能因應或用即時來因應受傷狀況增加訪視頻率或進行不定期的訪視以發掘這個虐待情勢故認為這個社工社工社患過失致死罪這個是多麼沉重的指控我不曉得你現在是社工社大家長你的感受是什麼你看喔\n\n27\n00:10:28,351 --> 00:10:54,465\n當這個社工被靠上所靠的那一剎那我相信衛生部很多同仁應該心有戚戚焉吧怎麼會這樣我再講一個數據2020年有兩成的社工在執行業務時遭受人身的危害每五名就有一個社工遭受安全危害每三天就有一位社工受到這個威脅\n\n28\n00:10:57,288 --> 00:11:20,318\n這個時候這個數據都沒有應該不誇張嘛對不對反正就是社區精神病患照護優化這缺點是長期以來這個問題那我們當然希望換了新的部長就有不一樣針對這個部分有更積極的應應作為嘛但是這樣的數據你必須要去盤整起來部長非常的清楚去掌握嘛然後北市喔臺北市社會局統計去年113年社工總人數是563人但是就有94人離職\n\n29\n00:11:24,127 --> 00:11:46,781\n李子麗有20%19.3%左右然後這是太多了替問我的地方就對了連新北市都有36個人離職持續這樣下去我們不只有人才斷層也有經驗的斷層這會接不上來這會出大問題所以你們要降到1比5你還是有辦法招到那些人\n\n30\n00:11:47,759 --> 00:12:03,677\n阿姨有辦法要做下去,不然你的1比25,我怕都很難達成,不要講到1比20。我今天要這樣垂詢你們的意思,因為時間有限,但是大致上就講了幾個重點,也給部長能夠理解。\n\n31\n00:12:04,638 --> 00:12:26,283\n我這邊最後一個具體的建議其實我們在這個有對這個連江縣社會工作人力培訓期獎勵計畫是109年到115年這個離老人力當然離老的社工人力當然會比這個本島更難培養但是如果透過公會的方式為離老來培養這個社工人力我覺得\n\n32\n00:12:27,216 --> 00:12:47,148\n我覺得有某種程度的效益存在那今年首屆的國衛生有3人在6月畢業之後7月會返鄉來到這個連江縣託入服務這個計畫已經執行4年的啦要不要去擴大嘛該不該擴大有沒有原理擴大你的2.0裡面有沒有含帶這一項\n\n33\n00:12:49,656 --> 00:13:08,875\n我想這個是有意義的一個工作啦齁那就是看需求需求面方面我們來規劃嘛不曉得社會福利部有沒有規劃是跟委員報告齁就是這一次今年我到連江去看這些學生跟縣府交換意見那他們縣府也提出就是說\n\n34\n00:13:09,535 --> 00:13:33,416\n在這一期結束後他們會再評估提出第二期再繼續讓中央來支持所以因此我們在等他的報告來之後我們會再報給行政委員來做這個就是林江縣他提出了嘛全國要不要一體適用嘛你的能力才有辦法短期內去補足嘛你的1比25才有辦法達標嘛為了1比20才有機會有辦法去實現嘛就這樣而已嘛\n\n35\n00:13:34,468 --> 00:13:49,797\n一個月給我們報告跟政府溝通一下好不好?部長可以嗎?好,謝謝!謝謝!謝謝劉委員!不過我的社工師我建議你們在聚會的時候還是說在做年度的時候請外商科的醫師來幫你們\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1668\t15868\t謝謝主席也謝謝召委今天排這個有關這個社區思覺治療症的病患我們應該是用這樣的名稱比較正確這個提醒一下主席來有請部長謝謝\n22355\t50518\t委員好部長好部長辛苦了這個不到百會待舉不過真的事情真的是很多今天今天找我又排這個思覺治療症的這個病患的照護優化這確實也非常重要一件事情我想到立院還是面對立院的時候要就是要要面對事實有些數據可能我們要小心也不要去美化部長可以看這個資料很清楚\n51999\t73249\t據說我們有強化這個社會安全網第二期計畫那分年來補助地方政府部建社區心理衛生中心及充實心衛中心能力至113年10月底就今年10月底全國社區心理衛生中心已累計52處那每一縣市均以至少設有1處那預計114年要將部建到71處\n76691\t88303\t另外補助禁用心理師、職能治療師、護理師、心理輔導員、心理衛生社工及關懷訪視員等心理衛生人力。\n90387\t111580\t一百一十年計有五百九十位,到一百一十三年的十月,要增加到,已經增加到一千四百五十位,然後到一百一十年將增加到兩千四百八十九位。這個總共有六個類別的這些專業人士,那這個報告你把它全部都混在一塊。\n112372\t135385\t我不曉得這是什麼意思然後我們也很難去精算到底是心理護導員你要增進多少然後這個心理衛生的社工生你要增加多少我看不出來但是我如果說以明年來平均每一個職業別基本上就是會增加到414人嘛對不對他們要來照顧這個全國的心理衛生問題喔這樣夠不夠\n138683\t142762\t每一個人的承擔負擔的這個以往的這樣的一個建樹\n143908\t172847\t即便你增加到這樣的,夠不夠?因為你寫這樣,我只有籠統的來跟你請教嘛。我不曉得律師要負責多少,護理師要負責多少,然後心理護長要負責多少,對不對?然後,再給部長看第二個資料啦,就一樣強化這第二期裡面,112年的這個衛福部直接補助地方政府禁用心理衛生社工含督導是291人。那提供精神疾病與自殺防治合併多重議題,\n173847\t174248\t這承受得起來嗎?這承受得起來嗎?\n194531\t223573\t那個委員 白委員是不是我們請針對這個問題跟你報告一下謝謝委員關切我們新衛社工的工作負擔那我的確沒有錯委員這邊提呃這個呈現出來是我們新衛社工的人數是291人是在112年的時候那這個服務呢是指我去仿試的次數不是仿試的人數仿試的次數對因為每一個人可能會仿好幾次所以他不是人數是次數\n226551\t227792\t所以因為這樣區分起來壓力就不一樣了壓力就落差很大\n232478\t256389\t是這樣嗎?你要打呼我是這樣嗎?你現在是要緩博我嗎?是不是?不是。不然你這個想法我聽起來就有點怪怪的啊。這邊是。他的人次就是2169,216嘛對不對?21萬多嘛對不對?216349,你講,沒關係你再講一次。這個是服務量。我們提供了這麼多訪視的次數。那就更糟糕了。你這些人要做這麼多的事情。\n258753\t278174\t跟委員報告如果是以這個個案的負擔的那個案量比來講的話我們一個新衛社工在去年平均下來大概是1比28也就是說我一個新衛社工我大概服務28個這個合併有保護案件的這個精神病人所以你現在答問我是說1比28是合理的一個比例\n282096\t309248\t這個離我們的目標還是要再加油因為我們希望說我們希望能夠把這個比例降到1比25左右1比25喔對你這麼講好像好像不是這麼嚴重的感覺齁1比28是現狀那你們要加油到可以調可以來調到1比25所以應該這些心理社公司基本上壓力都沒有這麼大是這樣嗎這個都有現場轉播的喔\n310669\t314931\t你先講合理的負擔的比例是多少你要達成的目標明年要達成目標1比25這是另外一件事情正常的情況之下參照先進的國家\n336002\t359682\t這個心理施工師應該要比例是多少?一比多少?是正常的?我們有參考國外的資料一比二十的是比較常見所以我們現在就是說當然我們目前國內的人力還是相對不足但是也沒有辦法一步到位所以我們是逐年的來禁用我們心衛社工的人力\n361484\t371716\t對,所以1比28到1比20你明年要到1比25對不對那你什麼時候可以到1比20才是一個參考國外的這樣的一個經驗是比較合理的\n375879\t405879\t響鐘\n407140\t409463\t社安網二期計畫是到明年底結束,所以新的一期會在1、15年開始?\n428772\t452574\t所以現在,所以我們1月5年就可以達到1比20,是不是這樣?明年是1比25嗎?希望,希望我們會努力,因為這個人員的禁用,不是說我們要...可是妳是行政機關,妳不能跟我講做希望,妳跟我講希望我就覺得沒有希望了。因為我們不可能說要,就是說我們要禁用的人數,然後為地方政府馬上就可以禁用到,他們還是有實務的這個禁用的一個期程,所以不可能說我們一下子補...\n455215\t482134\t我讓部長知道有這個事情啦好不好我覺得我們一定努力因為部長你現在是社公司的社公司的大家長你現在身份嘛對不對跟以前不一樣我要講你們講說有機會才有機會這個寫的這個報導出來的嘛有機會好好去處理每一個個案的狀況是要降到1比20嘛那等於緩資嘛對不對現在跟明年\n483399\t487041\t甚至於未來的後年115年都沒有機會好好去處理每一個個案。我這樣講你應該沒有辦法反駁我吧?\n496089\t496609\t我可以這麼講嗎?對不對?\n519747\t544906\t一下子剛剛市長這邊報告一下子要達到這個目標恐怕的確困難那的確這是事實好好如果要降到1.2才能好好去處理這是每一個個案這也是我們工作同仁的因為我們強化這個社會安全網明年明年是到第二期有各種管道來幫助這些個案讓我們的某一個譬如說心理社會這一個\n546187\t573399\t負擔不要那麼重,多元化大家互相來支持。現在都是講這個團隊作戰的啦。沒有啦,柏中,我時間在管的啦。我告訴你,因為我講好好的處理每一個個案,我現在講兩件好好的沒有辦法處理每一個個案。第一個,就突然發生這個事件嘛。就傳出生產者在這邊的社工直接詢問受害者家屬要不要去和解啦。其實做法上是非常粗糙嘛,引起社會嘩然,但是我不忍苛責。\n575090\t591055\t社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。其中過失致死的理由,社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精\n600848\t610312\t那這個社工未能因應或用即時來因應受傷狀況增加訪視頻率或進行不定期的訪視以發掘這個虐待情勢故認為這個社工社工社患過失致死罪這個是多麼沉重的指控我不曉得你現在是社工社大家長你的感受是什麼你看喔\n628351\t654465\t當這個社工被靠上所靠的那一剎那我相信衛生部很多同仁應該心有戚戚焉吧怎麼會這樣我再講一個數據 2020年有兩成的社工在執行業務時遭受人身的危害每五名就有一個社工遭受安全危害每三天就有一位社工受到這個威脅\n657288\t680318\t這個時候這個數據都沒有應該不誇張嘛對不對反正就是社區精神病患照護優化這缺點是長期以來這個問題那我們當然希望換了新的部長就有不一樣針對這個部分有更積極的應應作為嘛但是這樣的數據你必須要去盤整起來部長非常的清楚去掌握嘛然後北市喔臺北市社會局統計去年113年社工總人數是563人但是就有94人離職\n684127\t706781\t李子麗有20% 19.3%左右然後這是太多了替問我的地方就對了連新北市都有36個人離職持續這樣下去我們不只有人才斷層也有經驗的斷層這會接不上來這會出大問題所以你們要降到1比5你還是有辦法招到那些人\n707759\t723677\t阿姨有辦法要做下去,不然你的1比25,我怕都很難達成,不要講到1比20。我今天要這樣垂詢你們的意思,因為時間有限,但是大致上就講了幾個重點,也給部長能夠理解。\n724638\t746283\t我這邊最後一個具體的建議其實我們在這個有對這個連江縣社會工作人力培訓期獎勵計畫是109年到115年這個離老人力當然離老的社工人力當然會比這個本島更難培養但是如果透過公會的方式為離老來培養這個社工人力我覺得\n747216\t767148\t我覺得有某種程度的效益存在那今年首屆的國衛生有3人在6月畢業之後7月會返鄉來到這個連江縣託入服務這個計畫已經執行4年的啦要不要去擴大嘛該不該擴大有沒有原理擴大你的2.0裡面有沒有含帶這一項\n769656\t788875\t我想這個是有意義的一個工作啦齁那就是看需求需求面方面我們來規劃嘛不曉得社會福利部有沒有規劃是跟委員報告齁就是這一次今年我到連江去看這些學生跟縣府交換意見那他們縣府也提出就是說\n789535\t813416\t在這一期結束後他們會再評估提出第二期再繼續讓中央來支持所以因此我們在等他的報告來之後我們會再報給行政委員來做這個就是林江縣他提出了嘛全國要不要一體適用嘛你的能力才有辦法短期內去補足嘛你的1比25才有辦法達標嘛為了1比20才有機會有辦法去實現嘛就這樣而已嘛\n814468\t829797\t一個月給我們報告跟政府溝通一下好不好?部長可以嗎?好,謝謝!謝謝!謝謝劉委員!不過我的社工師我建議你們在聚會的時候還是說在做年度的時候請外商科的醫師來幫你們\n","txt":"謝謝主席也謝謝召委今天排這個有關這個社區思覺治療症的病患我們應該是用這樣的名稱比較正確這個提醒一下主席來有請部長謝謝\n委員好部長好部長辛苦了這個不到百會待舉不過真的事情真的是很多今天今天找我又排這個思覺治療症的這個病患的照護優化這確實也非常重要一件事情我想到立院還是面對立院的時候要就是要要面對事實有些數據可能我們要小心也不要去美化部長可以看這個資料很清楚\n據說我們有強化這個社會安全網第二期計畫那分年來補助地方政府部建社區心理衛生中心及充實心衛中心能力至113年10月底就今年10月底全國社區心理衛生中心已累計52處那每一縣市均以至少設有1處那預計114年要將部建到71處\n另外補助禁用心理師、職能治療師、護理師、心理輔導員、心理衛生社工及關懷訪視員等心理衛生人力。\n一百一十年計有五百九十位,到一百一十三年的十月,要增加到,已經增加到一千四百五十位,然後到一百一十年將增加到兩千四百八十九位。這個總共有六個類別的這些專業人士,那這個報告你把它全部都混在一塊。\n我不曉得這是什麼意思然後我們也很難去精算到底是心理護導員你要增進多少然後這個心理衛生的社工生你要增加多少我看不出來但是我如果說以明年來平均每一個職業別基本上就是會增加到414人嘛對不對他們要來照顧這個全國的心理衛生問題喔這樣夠不夠\n每一個人的承擔負擔的這個以往的這樣的一個建樹\n即便你增加到這樣的,夠不夠?因為你寫這樣,我只有籠統的來跟你請教嘛。我不曉得律師要負責多少,護理師要負責多少,然後心理護長要負責多少,對不對?然後,再給部長看第二個資料啦,就一樣強化這第二期裡面,112年的這個衛福部直接補助地方政府禁用心理衛生社工含督導是291人。那提供精神疾病與自殺防治合併多重議題,\n這承受得起來嗎?這承受得起來嗎?\n那個委員 白委員是不是我們請針對這個問題跟你報告一下謝謝委員關切我們新衛社工的工作負擔那我的確沒有錯委員這邊提呃這個呈現出來是我們新衛社工的人數是291人是在112年的時候那這個服務呢是指我去仿試的次數不是仿試的人數仿試的次數對因為每一個人可能會仿好幾次所以他不是人數是次數\n所以因為這樣區分起來壓力就不一樣了壓力就落差很大\n是這樣嗎?你要打呼我是這樣嗎?你現在是要緩博我嗎?是不是?不是。不然你這個想法我聽起來就有點怪怪的啊。這邊是。他的人次就是2169,216嘛對不對?21萬多嘛對不對?216349,你講,沒關係你再講一次。這個是服務量。我們提供了這麼多訪視的次數。那就更糟糕了。你這些人要做這麼多的事情。\n跟委員報告如果是以這個個案的負擔的那個案量比來講的話我們一個新衛社工在去年平均下來大概是1比28也就是說我一個新衛社工我大概服務28個這個合併有保護案件的這個精神病人所以你現在答問我是說1比28是合理的一個比例\n這個離我們的目標還是要再加油因為我們希望說我們希望能夠把這個比例降到1比25左右1比25喔對你這麼講好像好像不是這麼嚴重的感覺齁1比28是現狀那你們要加油到可以調可以來調到1比25所以應該這些心理社公司基本上壓力都沒有這麼大是這樣嗎這個都有現場轉播的喔\n你先講合理的負擔的比例是多少你要達成的目標明年要達成目標1比25這是另外一件事情正常的情況之下參照先進的國家\n這個心理施工師應該要比例是多少?一比多少?是正常的?我們有參考國外的資料一比二十的是比較常見所以我們現在就是說當然我們目前國內的人力還是相對不足但是也沒有辦法一步到位所以我們是逐年的來禁用我們心衛社工的人力\n對,所以1比28到1比20你明年要到1比25對不對那你什麼時候可以到1比20才是一個參考國外的這樣的一個經驗是比較合理的\n響鐘\n社安網二期計畫是到明年底結束,所以新的一期會在1、15年開始?\n所以現在,所以我們1月5年就可以達到1比20,是不是這樣?明年是1比25嗎?希望,希望我們會努力,因為這個人員的禁用,不是說我們要...可是妳是行政機關,妳不能跟我講做希望,妳跟我講希望我就覺得沒有希望了。因為我們不可能說要,就是說我們要禁用的人數,然後為地方政府馬上就可以禁用到,他們還是有實務的這個禁用的一個期程,所以不可能說我們一下子補...\n我讓部長知道有這個事情啦好不好我覺得我們一定努力因為部長你現在是社公司的社公司的大家長你現在身份嘛對不對跟以前不一樣我要講你們講說有機會才有機會這個寫的這個報導出來的嘛有機會好好去處理每一個個案的狀況是要降到1比20嘛那等於緩資嘛對不對現在跟明年\n甚至於未來的後年115年都沒有機會好好去處理每一個個案。我這樣講你應該沒有辦法反駁我吧?\n我可以這麼講嗎?對不對?\n一下子剛剛市長這邊報告一下子要達到這個目標恐怕的確困難那的確這是事實好好如果要降到1.2才能好好去處理這是每一個個案這也是我們工作同仁的因為我們強化這個社會安全網明年明年是到第二期有各種管道來幫助這些個案讓我們的某一個譬如說心理社會這一個\n負擔不要那麼重,多元化大家互相來支持。現在都是講這個團隊作戰的啦。沒有啦,柏中,我時間在管的啦。我告訴你,因為我講好好的處理每一個個案,我現在講兩件好好的沒有辦法處理每一個個案。第一個,就突然發生這個事件嘛。就傳出生產者在這邊的社工直接詢問受害者家屬要不要去和解啦。其實做法上是非常粗糙嘛,引起社會嘩然,但是我不忍苛責。\n社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。其中過失致死的理由,社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精\n那這個社工未能因應或用即時來因應受傷狀況增加訪視頻率或進行不定期的訪視以發掘這個虐待情勢故認為這個社工社工社患過失致死罪這個是多麼沉重的指控我不曉得你現在是社工社大家長你的感受是什麼你看喔\n當這個社工被靠上所靠的那一剎那我相信衛生部很多同仁應該心有戚戚焉吧怎麼會這樣我再講一個數據 2020年有兩成的社工在執行業務時遭受人身的危害每五名就有一個社工遭受安全危害每三天就有一位社工受到這個威脅\n這個時候這個數據都沒有應該不誇張嘛對不對反正就是社區精神病患照護優化這缺點是長期以來這個問題那我們當然希望換了新的部長就有不一樣針對這個部分有更積極的應應作為嘛但是這樣的數據你必須要去盤整起來部長非常的清楚去掌握嘛然後北市喔臺北市社會局統計去年113年社工總人數是563人但是就有94人離職\n李子麗有20% 19.3%左右然後這是太多了替問我的地方就對了連新北市都有36個人離職持續這樣下去我們不只有人才斷層也有經驗的斷層這會接不上來這會出大問題所以你們要降到1比5你還是有辦法招到那些人\n阿姨有辦法要做下去,不然你的1比25,我怕都很難達成,不要講到1比20。我今天要這樣垂詢你們的意思,因為時間有限,但是大致上就講了幾個重點,也給部長能夠理解。\n我這邊最後一個具體的建議其實我們在這個有對這個連江縣社會工作人力培訓期獎勵計畫是109年到115年這個離老人力當然離老的社工人力當然會比這個本島更難培養但是如果透過公會的方式為離老來培養這個社工人力我覺得\n我覺得有某種程度的效益存在那今年首屆的國衛生有3人在6月畢業之後7月會返鄉來到這個連江縣託入服務這個計畫已經執行4年的啦要不要去擴大嘛該不該擴大有沒有原理擴大你的2.0裡面有沒有含帶這一項\n我想這個是有意義的一個工作啦齁那就是看需求需求面方面我們來規劃嘛不曉得社會福利部有沒有規劃是跟委員報告齁就是這一次今年我到連江去看這些學生跟縣府交換意見那他們縣府也提出就是說\n在這一期結束後他們會再評估提出第二期再繼續讓中央來支持所以因此我們在等他的報告來之後我們會再報給行政委員來做這個就是林江縣他提出了嘛全國要不要一體適用嘛你的能力才有辦法短期內去補足嘛你的1比25才有辦法達標嘛為了1比20才有機會有辦法去實現嘛就這樣而已嘛\n一個月給我們報告跟政府溝通一下好不好?部長可以嗎?好,謝謝!謝謝!謝謝劉委員!不過我的社工師我建議你們在聚會的時候還是說在做年度的時候請外商科的醫師來幫你們\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.668 --> 00:15.868\n謝謝主席也謝謝召委今天排這個有關這個社區思覺治療症的病患我們應該是用這樣的名稱比較正確這個提醒一下主席來有請部長謝謝\n\n00:22.355 --> 00:50.518\n委員好部長好部長辛苦了這個不到百會待舉不過真的事情真的是很多今天今天找我又排這個思覺治療症的這個病患的照護優化這確實也非常重要一件事情我想到立院還是面對立院的時候要就是要要面對事實有些數據可能我們要小心也不要去美化部長可以看這個資料很清楚\n\n00:51.999 --> 01:13.249\n據說我們有強化這個社會安全網第二期計畫那分年來補助地方政府部建社區心理衛生中心及充實心衛中心能力至113年10月底就今年10月底全國社區心理衛生中心已累計52處那每一縣市均以至少設有1處那預計114年要將部建到71處\n\n01:16.691 --> 01:28.303\n另外補助禁用心理師、職能治療師、護理師、心理輔導員、心理衛生社工及關懷訪視員等心理衛生人力。\n\n01:30.387 --> 01:51.580\n一百一十年計有五百九十位,到一百一十三年的十月,要增加到,已經增加到一千四百五十位,然後到一百一十年將增加到兩千四百八十九位。這個總共有六個類別的這些專業人士,那這個報告你把它全部都混在一塊。\n\n01:52.372 --> 02:15.385\n我不曉得這是什麼意思然後我們也很難去精算到底是心理護導員你要增進多少然後這個心理衛生的社工生你要增加多少我看不出來但是我如果說以明年來平均每一個職業別基本上就是會增加到414人嘛對不對他們要來照顧這個全國的心理衛生問題喔這樣夠不夠\n\n02:18.683 --> 02:22.762\n每一個人的承擔負擔的這個以往的這樣的一個建樹\n\n02:23.908 --> 02:52.847\n即便你增加到這樣的,夠不夠?因為你寫這樣,我只有籠統的來跟你請教嘛。我不曉得律師要負責多少,護理師要負責多少,然後心理護長要負責多少,對不對?然後,再給部長看第二個資料啦,就一樣強化這第二期裡面,112年的這個衛福部直接補助地方政府禁用心理衛生社工含督導是291人。那提供精神疾病與自殺防治合併多重議題,\n\n02:53.847 --> 02:54.248\n這承受得起來嗎?這承受得起來嗎?\n\n03:14.531 --> 03:43.573\n那個委員白委員是不是我們請針對這個問題跟你報告一下謝謝委員關切我們新衛社工的工作負擔那我的確沒有錯委員這邊提呃這個呈現出來是我們新衛社工的人數是291人是在112年的時候那這個服務呢是指我去仿試的次數不是仿試的人數仿試的次數對因為每一個人可能會仿好幾次所以他不是人數是次數\n\n03:46.551 --> 03:47.792\n所以因為這樣區分起來壓力就不一樣了壓力就落差很大\n\n03:52.478 --> 04:16.389\n是這樣嗎?你要打呼我是這樣嗎?你現在是要緩博我嗎?是不是?不是。不然你這個想法我聽起來就有點怪怪的啊。這邊是。他的人次就是2169,216嘛對不對?21萬多嘛對不對?216349,你講,沒關係你再講一次。這個是服務量。我們提供了這麼多訪視的次數。那就更糟糕了。你這些人要做這麼多的事情。\n\n04:18.753 --> 04:38.174\n跟委員報告如果是以這個個案的負擔的那個案量比來講的話我們一個新衛社工在去年平均下來大概是1比28也就是說我一個新衛社工我大概服務28個這個合併有保護案件的這個精神病人所以你現在答問我是說1比28是合理的一個比例\n\n04:42.096 --> 05:09.248\n這個離我們的目標還是要再加油因為我們希望說我們希望能夠把這個比例降到1比25左右1比25喔對你這麼講好像好像不是這麼嚴重的感覺齁1比28是現狀那你們要加油到可以調可以來調到1比25所以應該這些心理社公司基本上壓力都沒有這麼大是這樣嗎這個都有現場轉播的喔\n\n05:10.669 --> 05:14.931\n你先講合理的負擔的比例是多少你要達成的目標明年要達成目標1比25這是另外一件事情正常的情況之下參照先進的國家\n\n05:36.002 --> 05:59.682\n這個心理施工師應該要比例是多少?一比多少?是正常的?我們有參考國外的資料一比二十的是比較常見所以我們現在就是說當然我們目前國內的人力還是相對不足但是也沒有辦法一步到位所以我們是逐年的來禁用我們心衛社工的人力\n\n06:01.484 --> 06:11.716\n對,所以1比28到1比20你明年要到1比25對不對那你什麼時候可以到1比20才是一個參考國外的這樣的一個經驗是比較合理的\n\n06:47.140 --> 06:49.463\n社安網二期計畫是到明年底結束,所以新的一期會在1、15年開始?\n\n07:08.772 --> 07:32.574\n所以現在,所以我們1月5年就可以達到1比20,是不是這樣?明年是1比25嗎?希望,希望我們會努力,因為這個人員的禁用,不是說我們要...可是妳是行政機關,妳不能跟我講做希望,妳跟我講希望我就覺得沒有希望了。因為我們不可能說要,就是說我們要禁用的人數,然後為地方政府馬上就可以禁用到,他們還是有實務的這個禁用的一個期程,所以不可能說我們一下子補...\n\n07:35.215 --> 08:02.134\n我讓部長知道有這個事情啦好不好我覺得我們一定努力因為部長你現在是社公司的社公司的大家長你現在身份嘛對不對跟以前不一樣我要講你們講說有機會才有機會這個寫的這個報導出來的嘛有機會好好去處理每一個個案的狀況是要降到1比20嘛那等於緩資嘛對不對現在跟明年\n\n08:03.399 --> 08:07.041\n甚至於未來的後年115年都沒有機會好好去處理每一個個案。我這樣講你應該沒有辦法反駁我吧?\n\n08:16.089 --> 08:16.609\n我可以這麼講嗎?對不對?\n\n08:39.747 --> 09:04.906\n一下子剛剛市長這邊報告一下子要達到這個目標恐怕的確困難那的確這是事實好好如果要降到1.2才能好好去處理這是每一個個案這也是我們工作同仁的因為我們強化這個社會安全網明年明年是到第二期有各種管道來幫助這些個案讓我們的某一個譬如說心理社會這一個\n\n09:06.187 --> 09:33.399\n負擔不要那麼重,多元化大家互相來支持。現在都是講這個團隊作戰的啦。沒有啦,柏中,我時間在管的啦。我告訴你,因為我講好好的處理每一個個案,我現在講兩件好好的沒有辦法處理每一個個案。第一個,就突然發生這個事件嘛。就傳出生產者在這邊的社工直接詢問受害者家屬要不要去和解啦。其實做法上是非常粗糙嘛,引起社會嘩然,但是我不忍苛責。\n\n09:35.090 --> 09:51.055\n社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。其中過失致死的理由,社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精\n\n10:00.848 --> 10:10.312\n那這個社工未能因應或用即時來因應受傷狀況增加訪視頻率或進行不定期的訪視以發掘這個虐待情勢故認為這個社工社工社患過失致死罪這個是多麼沉重的指控我不曉得你現在是社工社大家長你的感受是什麼你看喔\n\n10:28.351 --> 10:54.465\n當這個社工被靠上所靠的那一剎那我相信衛生部很多同仁應該心有戚戚焉吧怎麼會這樣我再講一個數據2020年有兩成的社工在執行業務時遭受人身的危害每五名就有一個社工遭受安全危害每三天就有一位社工受到這個威脅\n\n10:57.288 --> 11:20.318\n這個時候這個數據都沒有應該不誇張嘛對不對反正就是社區精神病患照護優化這缺點是長期以來這個問題那我們當然希望換了新的部長就有不一樣針對這個部分有更積極的應應作為嘛但是這樣的數據你必須要去盤整起來部長非常的清楚去掌握嘛然後北市喔臺北市社會局統計去年113年社工總人數是563人但是就有94人離職\n\n11:24.127 --> 11:46.781\n李子麗有20%19.3%左右然後這是太多了替問我的地方就對了連新北市都有36個人離職持續這樣下去我們不只有人才斷層也有經驗的斷層這會接不上來這會出大問題所以你們要降到1比5你還是有辦法招到那些人\n\n11:47.759 --> 12:03.677\n阿姨有辦法要做下去,不然你的1比25,我怕都很難達成,不要講到1比20。我今天要這樣垂詢你們的意思,因為時間有限,但是大致上就講了幾個重點,也給部長能夠理解。\n\n12:04.638 --> 12:26.283\n我這邊最後一個具體的建議其實我們在這個有對這個連江縣社會工作人力培訓期獎勵計畫是109年到115年這個離老人力當然離老的社工人力當然會比這個本島更難培養但是如果透過公會的方式為離老來培養這個社工人力我覺得\n\n12:27.216 --> 12:47.148\n我覺得有某種程度的效益存在那今年首屆的國衛生有3人在6月畢業之後7月會返鄉來到這個連江縣託入服務這個計畫已經執行4年的啦要不要去擴大嘛該不該擴大有沒有原理擴大你的2.0裡面有沒有含帶這一項\n\n12:49.656 --> 13:08.875\n我想這個是有意義的一個工作啦齁那就是看需求需求面方面我們來規劃嘛不曉得社會福利部有沒有規劃是跟委員報告齁就是這一次今年我到連江去看這些學生跟縣府交換意見那他們縣府也提出就是說\n\n13:09.535 --> 13:33.416\n在這一期結束後他們會再評估提出第二期再繼續讓中央來支持所以因此我們在等他的報告來之後我們會再報給行政委員來做這個就是林江縣他提出了嘛全國要不要一體適用嘛你的能力才有辦法短期內去補足嘛你的1比25才有辦法達標嘛為了1比20才有機會有辦法去實現嘛就這樣而已嘛\n\n13:34.468 --> 13:49.797\n一個月給我們報告跟政府溝通一下好不好?部長可以嗎?好,謝謝!謝謝!謝謝劉委員!不過我的社工師我建議你們在聚會的時候還是說在做年度的時候請外商科的醫師來幫你們\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.668,"end":15.868,"text":"謝謝主席也謝謝召委今天排這個有關這個社區思覺治療症的病患我們應該是用這樣的名稱比較正確這個提醒一下主席來有請部長謝謝"},{"start":22.355,"end":50.518,"text":"委員好部長好部長辛苦了這個不到百會待舉不過真的事情真的是很多今天今天找我又排這個思覺治療症的這個病患的照護優化這確實也非常重要一件事情我想到立院還是面對立院的時候要就是要要面對事實有些數據可能我們要小心也不要去美化部長可以看這個資料很清楚"},{"start":51.999,"end":73.249,"text":"據說我們有強化這個社會安全網第二期計畫那分年來補助地方政府部建社區心理衛生中心及充實心衛中心能力至113年10月底就今年10月底全國社區心理衛生中心已累計52處那每一縣市均以至少設有1處那預計114年要將部建到71處"},{"start":76.691,"end":88.303,"text":"另外補助禁用心理師、職能治療師、護理師、心理輔導員、心理衛生社工及關懷訪視員等心理衛生人力。"},{"start":90.387,"end":111.58,"text":"一百一十年計有五百九十位,到一百一十三年的十月,要增加到,已經增加到一千四百五十位,然後到一百一十年將增加到兩千四百八十九位。這個總共有六個類別的這些專業人士,那這個報告你把它全部都混在一塊。"},{"start":112.372,"end":135.385,"text":"我不曉得這是什麼意思然後我們也很難去精算到底是心理護導員你要增進多少然後這個心理衛生的社工生你要增加多少我看不出來但是我如果說以明年來平均每一個職業別基本上就是會增加到414人嘛對不對他們要來照顧這個全國的心理衛生問題喔這樣夠不夠"},{"start":138.683,"end":142.762,"text":"每一個人的承擔負擔的這個以往的這樣的一個建樹"},{"start":143.908,"end":172.847,"text":"即便你增加到這樣的,夠不夠?因為你寫這樣,我只有籠統的來跟你請教嘛。我不曉得律師要負責多少,護理師要負責多少,然後心理護長要負責多少,對不對?然後,再給部長看第二個資料啦,就一樣強化這第二期裡面,112年的這個衛福部直接補助地方政府禁用心理衛生社工含督導是291人。那提供精神疾病與自殺防治合併多重議題,"},{"start":173.847,"end":174.248,"text":"這承受得起來嗎?這承受得起來嗎?"},{"start":194.531,"end":223.573,"text":"那個委員 白委員是不是我們請針對這個問題跟你報告一下謝謝委員關切我們新衛社工的工作負擔那我的確沒有錯委員這邊提呃這個呈現出來是我們新衛社工的人數是291人是在112年的時候那這個服務呢是指我去仿試的次數不是仿試的人數仿試的次數對因為每一個人可能會仿好幾次所以他不是人數是次數"},{"start":226.551,"end":227.792,"text":"所以因為這樣區分起來壓力就不一樣了壓力就落差很大"},{"start":232.478,"end":256.389,"text":"是這樣嗎?你要打呼我是這樣嗎?你現在是要緩博我嗎?是不是?不是。不然你這個想法我聽起來就有點怪怪的啊。這邊是。他的人次就是2169,216嘛對不對?21萬多嘛對不對?216349,你講,沒關係你再講一次。這個是服務量。我們提供了這麼多訪視的次數。那就更糟糕了。你這些人要做這麼多的事情。"},{"start":258.753,"end":278.174,"text":"跟委員報告如果是以這個個案的負擔的那個案量比來講的話我們一個新衛社工在去年平均下來大概是1比28也就是說我一個新衛社工我大概服務28個這個合併有保護案件的這個精神病人所以你現在答問我是說1比28是合理的一個比例"},{"start":282.096,"end":309.248,"text":"這個離我們的目標還是要再加油因為我們希望說我們希望能夠把這個比例降到1比25左右1比25喔對你這麼講好像好像不是這麼嚴重的感覺齁1比28是現狀那你們要加油到可以調可以來調到1比25所以應該這些心理社公司基本上壓力都沒有這麼大是這樣嗎這個都有現場轉播的喔"},{"start":310.669,"end":314.931,"text":"你先講合理的負擔的比例是多少你要達成的目標明年要達成目標1比25這是另外一件事情正常的情況之下參照先進的國家"},{"start":336.002,"end":359.682,"text":"這個心理施工師應該要比例是多少?一比多少?是正常的?我們有參考國外的資料一比二十的是比較常見所以我們現在就是說當然我們目前國內的人力還是相對不足但是也沒有辦法一步到位所以我們是逐年的來禁用我們心衛社工的人力"},{"start":361.484,"end":371.716,"text":"對,所以1比28到1比20你明年要到1比25對不對那你什麼時候可以到1比20才是一個參考國外的這樣的一個經驗是比較合理的"},{"start":375.879,"end":405.879,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":407.14,"end":409.463,"text":"社安網二期計畫是到明年底結束,所以新的一期會在1、15年開始?"},{"start":428.772,"end":452.574,"text":"所以現在,所以我們1月5年就可以達到1比20,是不是這樣?明年是1比25嗎?希望,希望我們會努力,因為這個人員的禁用,不是說我們要...可是妳是行政機關,妳不能跟我講做希望,妳跟我講希望我就覺得沒有希望了。因為我們不可能說要,就是說我們要禁用的人數,然後為地方政府馬上就可以禁用到,他們還是有實務的這個禁用的一個期程,所以不可能說我們一下子補..."},{"start":455.215,"end":482.134,"text":"我讓部長知道有這個事情啦好不好我覺得我們一定努力因為部長你現在是社公司的社公司的大家長你現在身份嘛對不對跟以前不一樣我要講你們講說有機會才有機會這個寫的這個報導出來的嘛有機會好好去處理每一個個案的狀況是要降到1比20嘛那等於緩資嘛對不對現在跟明年"},{"start":483.399,"end":487.041,"text":"甚至於未來的後年115年都沒有機會好好去處理每一個個案。我這樣講你應該沒有辦法反駁我吧?"},{"start":496.089,"end":496.609,"text":"我可以這麼講嗎?對不對?"},{"start":519.747,"end":544.906,"text":"一下子剛剛市長這邊報告一下子要達到這個目標恐怕的確困難那的確這是事實好好如果要降到1.2才能好好去處理這是每一個個案這也是我們工作同仁的因為我們強化這個社會安全網明年明年是到第二期有各種管道來幫助這些個案讓我們的某一個譬如說心理社會這一個"},{"start":546.187,"end":573.399,"text":"負擔不要那麼重,多元化大家互相來支持。現在都是講這個團隊作戰的啦。沒有啦,柏中,我時間在管的啦。我告訴你,因為我講好好的處理每一個個案,我現在講兩件好好的沒有辦法處理每一個個案。第一個,就突然發生這個事件嘛。就傳出生產者在這邊的社工直接詢問受害者家屬要不要去和解啦。其實做法上是非常粗糙嘛,引起社會嘩然,但是我不忍苛責。"},{"start":575.09,"end":591.055,"text":"社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。其中過失致死的理由,社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精神病患照護優化 被起訴過失致死,業務登載不實。社區精"},{"start":600.848,"end":610.312,"text":"那這個社工未能因應或用即時來因應受傷狀況增加訪視頻率或進行不定期的訪視以發掘這個虐待情勢故認為這個社工社工社患過失致死罪這個是多麼沉重的指控我不曉得你現在是社工社大家長你的感受是什麼你看喔"},{"start":628.351,"end":654.465,"text":"當這個社工被靠上所靠的那一剎那我相信衛生部很多同仁應該心有戚戚焉吧怎麼會這樣我再講一個數據 2020年有兩成的社工在執行業務時遭受人身的危害每五名就有一個社工遭受安全危害每三天就有一位社工受到這個威脅"},{"start":657.288,"end":680.318,"text":"這個時候這個數據都沒有應該不誇張嘛對不對反正就是社區精神病患照護優化這缺點是長期以來這個問題那我們當然希望換了新的部長就有不一樣針對這個部分有更積極的應應作為嘛但是這樣的數據你必須要去盤整起來部長非常的清楚去掌握嘛然後北市喔臺北市社會局統計去年113年社工總人數是563人但是就有94人離職"},{"start":684.127,"end":706.781,"text":"李子麗有20% 19.3%左右然後這是太多了替問我的地方就對了連新北市都有36個人離職持續這樣下去我們不只有人才斷層也有經驗的斷層這會接不上來這會出大問題所以你們要降到1比5你還是有辦法招到那些人"},{"start":707.759,"end":723.677,"text":"阿姨有辦法要做下去,不然你的1比25,我怕都很難達成,不要講到1比20。我今天要這樣垂詢你們的意思,因為時間有限,但是大致上就講了幾個重點,也給部長能夠理解。"},{"start":724.638,"end":746.283,"text":"我這邊最後一個具體的建議其實我們在這個有對這個連江縣社會工作人力培訓期獎勵計畫是109年到115年這個離老人力當然離老的社工人力當然會比這個本島更難培養但是如果透過公會的方式為離老來培養這個社工人力我覺得"},{"start":747.216,"end":767.148,"text":"我覺得有某種程度的效益存在那今年首屆的國衛生有3人在6月畢業之後7月會返鄉來到這個連江縣託入服務這個計畫已經執行4年的啦要不要去擴大嘛該不該擴大有沒有原理擴大你的2.0裡面有沒有含帶這一項"},{"start":769.656,"end":788.875,"text":"我想這個是有意義的一個工作啦齁那就是看需求需求面方面我們來規劃嘛不曉得社會福利部有沒有規劃是跟委員報告齁就是這一次今年我到連江去看這些學生跟縣府交換意見那他們縣府也提出就是說"},{"start":789.535,"end":813.416,"text":"在這一期結束後他們會再評估提出第二期再繼續讓中央來支持所以因此我們在等他的報告來之後我們會再報給行政委員來做這個就是林江縣他提出了嘛全國要不要一體適用嘛你的能力才有辦法短期內去補足嘛你的1比25才有辦法達標嘛為了1比20才有機會有辦法去實現嘛就這樣而已嘛"},{"start":814.468,"end":829.797,"text":"一個月給我們報告跟政府溝通一下好不好?部長可以嗎?好,謝謝!謝謝!謝謝劉委員!不過我的社工師我建議你們在聚會的時候還是說在做年度的時候請外商科的醫師來幫你們"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1087,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（12時39分）謝謝主席，也謝謝召委今天排這個有關社區思覺失調症病患的照護，我覺得我們應該用這樣的名稱比較正確，提醒一下主席。來！有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：請部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["劉委員建國：部長好、部長辛苦了！不到百廢待舉，不過事情真的很多，今天召委排這個思覺失調症病患的照護優化，確實也是非常重要的一件事情……"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["劉委員建國：我想到立院還是要面對所有事實，有些數據可能我們要小心，也不要去美化。部長可以看這個資料，很清楚，就是在強化社會安全網第二期計畫中，分年補助地方政府布建社區心理衛生中心及充實心衛中心人力。至113年10月底，就是今年10月底，全國社區心理衛生中心已累計52處，每一縣市均已至少設有1處，預計114年將布建到71處；另外補助進用心理師、職能治療師、護理師、心理輔導員、心理衛生社工及關懷訪視員等心理衛生人力，110年計有594位，到113年10月已經增加到1,450位，然後到114年將增加到2,489位。總共有6個類別的專業人士，在這個報告裡，你把他們全部混在一塊，我不曉得這是什麼意思，然後我們也很難去精算，到底心理輔導員要增進多少，心理衛生社工師要增加多少，我們看不出來，但是如果我以明年來平均，每一個職業別基本上會增加到414人，對不對？他們要來照顧全國的心理衛生問題，這樣夠不夠？以以往的件數來看每一個人能承擔、負擔的量，即便已經增加到這樣了，夠不夠？因為你寫這樣，我只能籠統的跟你請教，因為我不曉得職能治療師要負責多少、護理師要負責多少，然後心理輔導員負責多少，對不對？","再給部長看第二個資料，一樣是在強化社會安全網第二期計畫裡面，112年衛福部直接補助地方政府進用心理衛生社工（含督導）291人，提供精神疾病與自殺防治合併多重議題個案的服務人次來到了21萬6,349人次。簡單講，平均一個社工要處理743人次，這樣承受得起來嗎？這承受得起來嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，是不是請司長來報告？"],["劉委員建國：來！針對這個問題。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：謝謝委員關切我們心衛社工的工作負擔，的確沒有錯，委員這邊呈現出來我們心衛社工的人數在112年的時候是291人，這個服務是指我去訪視的次數，不是訪視的人數，所以因為每一個……"],["劉委員建國：訪視的次數？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：對，因為每一個人可能會訪好幾次，所以它不是人數是次數，對，就是說我們兩百……"],["劉委員建國：所以因為這樣區分起來壓力就不一樣了，壓力就落差很大，是這樣嗎？你要答復我是這樣嗎？你現在是要反駁我嘛！是不是？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：不是。"],["劉委員建國：不然你這個想法我聽起來就有點怪怪的。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：這邊是……"],["劉委員建國：它的人次就二十一萬多嘛！對不對？216,349，沒關係你再講一次。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：這個是服務量，我們提供了這麼多訪視的次數。"],["劉委員建國：那就更糟糕了，你這些人要做這麼多的事情。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：跟委員報告，如果是以個案的負擔案量比來講的話，我們一個心衛社工在去年平均下來大概是1比28，也就是說一個心衛社工大概服務28個合併有保護案件的精神病人。"],["劉委員建國：是嘛！所以你現在答復我是說1比28是合理的一個比例？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：這個離我們的目標還是要再加油，因為我們希望說……"],["劉委員建國：好，要怎麼加油？要加油到什麼程度？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：我們希望能夠把這個比例降到1比25左右。"],["劉委員建國：1比25喔？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：對。"],["劉委員建國：你這麼講好像不是這麼嚴重的感覺，1比28是現狀，那你們要加油到可以調到1比25，所以應該這些心理社工師基本上壓力都沒有這麼大，是這樣嗎？其實這個都有現場轉播的，你小心答復。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：其實不是這個意思，因為我們是希望說……"],["劉委員建國：聽你答復就是這個意思啊！"],["鄭代理司長淑心：每一個社工要有一個合理的負擔案量……"],["劉委員建國：對嘛！"],["鄭代理司長淑心：目前我們是把目標設在明年要達到……"],["劉委員建國：不，你先講合理的負擔比例是多少，你明年要達成的目標1比25，這是另外一件事情，正常的情況之下，參照先進的國家，心理社工師應該要的比例是多少，1比多少是正常的？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：我們有參考國外的資料，1比20的是比較常見，所以我們現在……"],["劉委員建國：你講出真話。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：所以我們現在就是說……當然我們目前國內的人力還是相對不足，但是也沒有辦法一步到位，所以我們是逐年地來進用心衛社工的人力。"],["劉委員建國：對，所以1比25到1比20，你明年要到1比25對不對？那你什麼時候可以到1比20，才是一個參考國外經驗比較合理的，這個期程到什麼時候？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：謝謝委員關切，因為我們社安網是到114年會結束這一期，我們現在已經在研議2.0了，所以說有關於委員建議的這個，到底怎麼樣才是一個合理的案量，我們會把它放進來做研議。"],["劉委員建國：我沒有建議你，是你參考國外的比例嘛！對不對？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：是。"],["劉委員建國：你覺得這比較合理，沒有錯吧？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：我們會逐步地來檢討，然後……"],["劉委員建國：不，我是請教你有沒有覺得國外的是值得你們參考的嗎？這樣的比例……"],["鄭代理司長淑心：是可以參考的。"],["劉委員建國：對，是可以參考，你們要多久可以達到這樣的比例？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：我們會把它放進2.0來做一併的檢討。"],["劉委員建國：你的2.0什麼時候可以研擬完成？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：115年開始，社安網二期計畫是到明年底結束……"],["劉委員建國：對啦！明年底。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：新的一期會在115年開始。"],["劉委員建國：所以我們115年就可以達到1比20，是不是這樣？明年是1比25嘛！"],["鄭代理司長淑心：希望，我們會努力，因為人員的進用不是說我們要……"],["劉委員建國：你是行政機關，你不能跟我講希望……"],["鄭代理司長淑心：因為我們不可能說要……"],["劉委員建國：你跟我講希望我就覺得沒有希望了。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：就是說我們要進用的人數，然後地方政府馬上就可以進用到，他們還是有實務的進用期程，所以不可能說我們一下子補人力下去就可以進用到……"],["劉委員建國：好啦！我讓部長知道有這個事情，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好，了解、了解，我們一定努力。"],["劉委員建國：對，因為部長你現在是社工師的大家長，你現在的身分跟以前不一樣，我要講，你們講說有機會、才有機會，這個報導出來的，有機會好好去處理每一個個案的狀況是要降到1比20，那等於反之嘛！對不對？現在跟明年，甚至於未來的後年（115年）都沒有機會好好去處理每一個個案，我這樣講，你應該沒有辦法反駁我吧！對不對？如果照1比28、明年的1比25，到了後年年1比20的人力還沒有補充到位，那基本上就沒有辦法好好地處理每一個個案，那這樣的事件就會層出不窮，那你們的強化社會安全網第二期計畫等於就是白搭啦！我可以這麼講嘛！對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我想剛剛司長這邊報告，一下子要達到這個目標恐怕的確困難……"],["劉委員建國：部長……"],["邱部長泰源：這是事實，如果要降到1比20才能好好去處理每一個個案，這也是我們工作同仁的……"],["劉委員建國：因為我們強化社會安全網明年是到第二期……"],["邱部長泰源：所以是不是有各種管道來幫助這些個案，讓我們的某一個，譬如說心理社工的負擔不要那麼重，多元化、大家互相來支持，現在都是講團隊作戰的啦！"],["劉委員建國：沒有啦！部長，我時間的關係，我跟你說，因為我講要好好地處理每一個個案，但我現在講兩件沒有辦法好好地處理的個案，第一個就桃園發生的事件，就傳出身障者……這邊的社工直接詢問受害者家屬要不要去和解，其實作法上是非常粗糙，引起社會嘩然，但是我不忍苛責；然後第二個剴剴案也是這樣，這個社工被起訴過失致死，業務登載不實，其中過失致死的理由，部長應該還記憶猶新吧！這個社工都有親自到現場去訪視，但未能及時發覺到這一個保母所羅織的謊言，不只如此，也未能辨識這個傷勢係受虐所致，進而去做兒虐的通報，這個社工未能及時因應受傷的狀況增加訪視頻率或進行不定期的訪視以發覺虐待情勢，故認為這個社工涉犯過失致死罪，這個是多麼沉重的指控。你現在是社工師的大家長，我不曉得你的感受是什麼？你看，當這個社工被銬上手銬的那一剎那，我相信衛福部很多同仁應該心有戚戚焉吧！怎麼會這樣？","我再講一個數據，召委再讓我講一下，不好意思。2020年有兩成的社工在執行業務時遭受人身的危害，每5名就有一個社工遭受安全危害，每3天就有一位社工受到威脅，這個數據應該不誇張嘛！對不對？反正社工師缺人是長期以來的問題，那我們當然希望換了新的部長就有不一樣，針對這個部分有更積極的因應作為，但是這樣的數據你必須要去盤整起來，部長非常清楚去掌握嘛！然後臺北市社會局統計，去年112年社工總人數是563人，但是就有94人離職，離職率20%，19.3%左右，這是首都耶！鐵飯碗的地方就對了，連新北市都有36個人離職，持續這樣下去，我們不只有人才斷層，也有經驗的斷層，這會接不上來，這會出大問題！所以你們要降到1比25，你還是要有辦法招到那些人，也有辦法要做下去，不然你的1比25我怕都很難達成，不要講到1比20。我今天要這樣垂詢你們的意思就是如此，因為時間有限，但是大致上就講了幾個重點，也給部長能夠理解。","我這邊最後一個具體的建議，其實我們有一個「連江縣社會工作人力培育獎勵計畫」是109年到115年，當然離島的社工人力會比本島更難培養，但是如果透過公費的方式為離島來培養社工人力，我覺得有某種程度的效益存在，今年首屆的公費生有3人，在6月畢業之後，7月會返鄉來到連江縣投入服務，這個計畫已經執行4年了，要不要去擴大？該不該擴大？有沒有研擬擴大？你的2.0裡面有沒有涵蓋這一項？"],["邱部長泰源：我想這個是有意義的工作，就是看需求，需求面方面我們來規劃，不曉得社工司有沒有規劃？"],["蘇司長昭如：是，跟委員報告，今年我到連江去看這些學生、跟縣府交換意見，他們縣府也提出在這一期結束後，他們會再評估提出第二期，再繼續讓中央來支持，因此等他們報告來之後，我們會再報給行政院做核定。"],["劉委員建國：好，這個就是連江縣提出了嘛！全國要不要一體適用？你的人力才有辦法短期內去補足，你的1：25才有辦法達標，未來的1：20才有機會、有辦法去實現，就這樣而已嘛！在一個月內給我們報告，去跟教育部溝通一下好不好，部長可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝。謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝，謝謝劉委員。","不過蘇司長我對社工師有個建議，你們在聚會的時候還是在做年度的時候，要請外傷科的醫師來幫你們上課，因為針對一些外觀，它可以判斷這是暴力的還自摔的，這一塊要去補強，我覺得他們這一塊的能力還是不足。部長，這個我有去參加過所以我知道，好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接續請牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","鍾佳濱","林國成","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","賴士葆","黃秀芳","陳雪生","王育敏","劉建國","牛煦庭","楊曜","陳瑩","黃國昌","盧縣一"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2024-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結報告案1案；二、邀\n請衛生福利部部長針對「社區精神病患照護優化」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139301_00003"}}}