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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,218 --> 00:00:11,223\n謝謝主席部長跟這個社會救助跟社工吧市長有請\n\n2\n00:00:16,107 --> 00:00:34,295\n委員好,這部長無安喔,這無安,大家今天都談龜山這件事,又發生在本期選區喔,是,這非常煎熬啊,是,就剛剛劉建國委員講得很清楚啊,就是說像這樣子案例非常特殊啊,如果說大家要這個加強列管等等,它其實某一些層面來講可能會造成社工更進一步的負擔。\n\n3\n00:00:34,815 --> 00:00:59,561\n但這事就發生了嘛那這事發生的時候選區是極度恐慌的狀態治安的狀態我是很為難啦我當然不希望不管是智能障礙也好或者是精神障礙被汙名化可是這社區的恐慌它確實造成然後當大家都講說要把它關起來或什麼的時候其實本期非常為難所以我們今天一定要花一點時間討論這一件事情啦剛剛本期有講非常清楚這一案的狀況非常特殊就是說它並不一開始並不是所謂屬於的精神障礙對不對\n\n4\n00:01:00,862 --> 00:01:09,332\n他只是中度智能障礙而已對不對好那我想請問以現行的制度啦這個相關的官員可以做補充不屬於精神障礙的情況之下有沒有開案列管制度上規定要不要開案列管\n\n5\n00:01:17,077 --> 00:01:44,808\n報告委員我們這個全國的精神病人這邊來收案做關懷訪視不是因為他有沒有零有手冊而是說針對病情比較嚴重的一些對我現在講這個案例他之所以特別就是因為他一開始不是所謂的精神疾病的狀況他是智能障礙情況那智能障礙有沒有列管在我們這個精神衛生這邊是沒有是沒有列管對不對那那個社政方面的有沒有列管現在制度是什麼\n\n6\n00:01:46,397 --> 00:01:49,647\n好身上我剛剛不太確定沒關係上來說明一下就好\n\n7\n00:01:51,188 --> 00:02:18,026\n各位報告,他這個如果說經過身心障礙鑑定的話,他如果符合資格他是可以在用身心障礙的部分,他是拿進來列管的當然是有列管所謂的身心障礙的這個名額嘛,但我的意思是說列管之後他的管理是什麼?比如說我只是提供一項生活輔助或什麼之類的,或者說他可以請領相關補助,這是大家普遍的了解嘛可是針對特殊個案的這些行為或什麼,他現在有特別的規矩嗎?或者是有特別的規制嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:19,484 --> 00:02:44,782\n生意障礙的部分的話他是用各管的方式也就是說他可以想做相關的福利服務跟現在都還是從福利的角度出發所以現在問題就在這個地方就是說他沒有在沒有特殊行為之前他當然就不屬於要特定的開案列管就規範行為的一個模式嘛對不對那不列管的情況之下所以其實就等於是在行為方面是沒有列管那不列管的情況之下我們是不是只能期待就是說當事人的家庭給予合適的照顧跟支持\n\n9\n00:02:45,834 --> 00:03:10,035\n對不對現行的狀況是不是就是這樣好那這個案子因為他已經變成全國矚目他上了全國新聞剛剛還有影片放出來真的是慘不忍睹對不對那我想了解一下你們現在中央各部會有沒有去了解這個個案的狀況請問這個個案的狀況是他的家庭照護是屬於百密一疏平常很好但是發生這樣的事情還是說平常就疏於照顧等於家庭在支持系統方面是不合格的請問是屬於哪一種你沒有了解嗎\n\n10\n00:03:12,092 --> 00:03:12,112\n韓國瑜\n\n11\n00:03:28,192 --> 00:03:48,631\n現在大家都做了把被害人做心理輔導這是本來就應該做的事情嘛然後你盡量去撫平他的傷痛這本身就沒有問題了但現在問題就是這樣就是說現在這個加害者這個個案是他家庭是屬於長期失能的狀況還是他其實是正常但就是漏了那個第一個這個事情要先做先做釐清第二個我要講的也結合剛剛很多委員在問的就是說如果因為發生一次這樣的事情\n\n12\n00:03:49,031 --> 00:04:04,557\n然後我們就說全面列管然後又增加社工的工作負擔恐怕不見得從政策的方面能夠有效執行但是但是是不是針對類似的狀況可以做一個檢討那讓先至少讓政府去了解他的家庭狀況我用家庭狀況來區分嘛\n\n13\n00:04:06,778 --> 00:04:35,667\n如果這個人是有身心障礙的不管是智能也好精神也好然後他的家庭是足以支持的那我們應該想辦法鼓勵或加強家庭管理的力道這樣去減低你們社政的負擔如果你經過了盤查跟調查之後發現很多個案的家庭狀況是不OK的他很有可能就是特別的他可能就是隱形的炸彈我雖然這樣講有一點點有一點點無名化的意思但事實發生在這個地方所以我至少希望要求中央政府部委針對這個案子去做一個盤查身心障礙者可能行為\n\n14\n00:04:36,767 --> 00:04:53,011\n你不能等事情發生之後再列管我是覺得就來不及了事前先了解他們的家庭支持狀況你這樣才有辦法大家可以有效的去跟社會做溝通比如說守望相助或什麼也透過把家庭的環節拉進來你才能減低你社工跟相關行政人員的負擔嘛\n\n15\n00:04:53,351 --> 00:05:11,218\n我想這個才是解決這個個案長遠之道那我不希望說今天質詢的時候只是說我對個案還不是很瞭解既然都上了新聞是矚目公安今天都還排了專案報告那就要對個案要有深刻的瞭解啦好不好這是後續處理就針對加害人的這一部分後續的處理希望競速啊跟本席答覆可以嗎\n\n16\n00:05:12,822 --> 00:05:29,259\n謝謝委員提醒這個部分我們希望一個事件就能夠做系統性的一個系統性的就是把家庭拉進來用家庭為單位來做能夠因為這樣改善好不好本期的建議是這樣希望衛福部可以來執行好不好我們會把這個部分的一個報告再給委員好謝謝謝謝林委員謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7218\t11223\t謝謝主席部長跟這個社會救助跟社工吧市長有請\n16107\t34295\t委員好,這部長無安喔,這無安,大家今天都談龜山這件事,又發生在本期選區喔,是,這非常煎熬啊,是,就剛剛劉建國委員講得很清楚啊,就是說像這樣子案例非常特殊啊,如果說大家要這個加強列管等等,它其實某一些層面來講可能會造成社工更進一步的負擔。\n34815\t59561\t但這事就發生了嘛那這事發生的時候選區是極度恐慌的狀態治安的狀態我是很為難啦我當然不希望不管是智能障礙也好或者是精神障礙被汙名化可是這社區的恐慌它確實造成然後當大家都講說要把它關起來或什麼的時候其實本期非常為難所以我們今天一定要花一點時間討論這一件事情啦剛剛本期有講非常清楚這一案的狀況非常特殊就是說它並不一開始並不是所謂屬於的精神障礙對不對\n60862\t69332\t他只是中度智能障礙而已對不對好那我想請問以現行的制度啦這個相關的官員可以做補充不屬於精神障礙的情況之下有沒有開案列管制度上規定要不要開案列管\n77077\t104808\t報告委員我們這個全國的精神病人這邊來收案做關懷訪視不是因為他有沒有零有手冊而是說針對病情比較嚴重的一些對我現在講這個案例他之所以特別就是因為他一開始不是所謂的精神疾病的狀況他是智能障礙情況那智能障礙有沒有列管在我們這個精神衛生這邊是沒有是沒有列管對不對那那個社政方面的有沒有列管現在制度是什麼\n106397\t109647\t好 身上 我剛剛不太確定 沒關係上來說明一下就好\n111188\t138026\t各位報告,他這個如果說經過身心障礙鑑定的話,他如果符合資格他是可以在用身心障礙的部分,他是拿進來列管的當然是有列管所謂的身心障礙的這個名額嘛,但我的意思是說列管之後他的管理是什麼?比如說我只是提供一項生活輔助或什麼之類的,或者說他可以請領相關補助,這是大家普遍的了解嘛可是針對特殊個案的這些行為或什麼,他現在有特別的規矩嗎?或者是有特別的規制嗎?\n139484\t164782\t生意障礙的部分的話他是用各管的方式也就是說他可以想做相關的福利服務跟現在都還是從福利的角度出發所以現在問題就在這個地方就是說他沒有在沒有特殊行為之前他當然就不屬於要特定的開案列管就規範行為的一個模式嘛對不對那不列管的情況之下所以其實就等於是在行為方面是沒有列管那不列管的情況之下我們是不是只能期待就是說當事人的家庭給予合適的照顧跟支持\n165834\t190035\t對不對現行的狀況是不是就是這樣好那這個案子因為他已經變成全國矚目他上了全國新聞剛剛還有影片放出來真的是慘不忍睹對不對那我想了解一下你們現在中央各部會有沒有去了解這個個案的狀況請問這個個案的狀況是他的家庭照護是屬於百密一疏平常很好但是發生這樣的事情還是說平常就疏於照顧等於家庭在支持系統方面是不合格的請問是屬於哪一種你沒有了解嗎\n192092\t192112\t韓國瑜\n208192\t228631\t現在大家都做了把被害人做心理輔導這是本來就應該做的事情嘛然後你盡量去撫平他的傷痛這本身就沒有問題了但現在問題就是這樣就是說現在這個加害者這個個案是他家庭是屬於長期失能的狀況還是他其實是正常但就是漏了那個第一個這個事情要先做先做釐清第二個我要講的也結合剛剛很多委員在問的就是說如果因為發生一次這樣的事情\n229031\t244557\t然後我們就說全面列管然後又增加社工的工作負擔恐怕不見得從政策的方面能夠有效執行但是但是是不是針對類似的狀況可以做一個檢討那讓先至少讓政府去了解他的家庭狀況我用家庭狀況來區分嘛\n246778\t275667\t如果這個人是有身心障礙的不管是智能也好精神也好然後他的家庭是足以支持的那我們應該想辦法鼓勵或加強家庭管理的力道這樣去減低你們社政的負擔如果你經過了盤查跟調查之後發現很多個案的家庭狀況是不OK的他很有可能就是特別的他可能就是隱形的炸彈我雖然這樣講有一點點有一點點無名化的意思但事實發生在這個地方所以我至少希望要求中央政府部委針對這個案子去做一個盤查身心障礙者可能行為\n276767\t293011\t你不能等事情發生之後再列管我是覺得就來不及了事前先了解他們的家庭支持狀況你這樣才有辦法大家可以有效的去跟社會做溝通比如說守望相助或什麼也透過把家庭的環節拉進來你才能減低你社工跟相關行政人員的負擔嘛\n293351\t311218\t我想這個才是解決這個個案長遠之道那我不希望說今天質詢的時候只是說我對個案還不是很瞭解既然都上了新聞是矚目公安今天都還排了專案報告那就要對個案要有深刻的瞭解啦好不好這是後續處理就針對加害人的這一部分後續的處理希望競速啊跟本席答覆可以嗎\n312822\t329259\t謝謝委員提醒這個部分我們希望一個事件就能夠做系統性的一個系統性的就是把家庭拉進來用家庭為單位來做能夠因為這樣改善好不好本期的建議是這樣希望衛福部可以來執行好不好我們會把這個部分的一個報告再給委員好謝謝謝謝林委員謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席部長跟這個社會救助跟社工吧市長有請\n委員好,這部長無安喔,這無安,大家今天都談龜山這件事,又發生在本期選區喔,是,這非常煎熬啊,是,就剛剛劉建國委員講得很清楚啊,就是說像這樣子案例非常特殊啊,如果說大家要這個加強列管等等,它其實某一些層面來講可能會造成社工更進一步的負擔。\n但這事就發生了嘛那這事發生的時候選區是極度恐慌的狀態治安的狀態我是很為難啦我當然不希望不管是智能障礙也好或者是精神障礙被汙名化可是這社區的恐慌它確實造成然後當大家都講說要把它關起來或什麼的時候其實本期非常為難所以我們今天一定要花一點時間討論這一件事情啦剛剛本期有講非常清楚這一案的狀況非常特殊就是說它並不一開始並不是所謂屬於的精神障礙對不對\n他只是中度智能障礙而已對不對好那我想請問以現行的制度啦這個相關的官員可以做補充不屬於精神障礙的情況之下有沒有開案列管制度上規定要不要開案列管\n報告委員我們這個全國的精神病人這邊來收案做關懷訪視不是因為他有沒有零有手冊而是說針對病情比較嚴重的一些對我現在講這個案例他之所以特別就是因為他一開始不是所謂的精神疾病的狀況他是智能障礙情況那智能障礙有沒有列管在我們這個精神衛生這邊是沒有是沒有列管對不對那那個社政方面的有沒有列管現在制度是什麼\n好 身上 我剛剛不太確定 沒關係上來說明一下就好\n各位報告,他這個如果說經過身心障礙鑑定的話,他如果符合資格他是可以在用身心障礙的部分,他是拿進來列管的當然是有列管所謂的身心障礙的這個名額嘛,但我的意思是說列管之後他的管理是什麼?比如說我只是提供一項生活輔助或什麼之類的,或者說他可以請領相關補助,這是大家普遍的了解嘛可是針對特殊個案的這些行為或什麼,他現在有特別的規矩嗎?或者是有特別的規制嗎?\n生意障礙的部分的話他是用各管的方式也就是說他可以想做相關的福利服務跟現在都還是從福利的角度出發所以現在問題就在這個地方就是說他沒有在沒有特殊行為之前他當然就不屬於要特定的開案列管就規範行為的一個模式嘛對不對那不列管的情況之下所以其實就等於是在行為方面是沒有列管那不列管的情況之下我們是不是只能期待就是說當事人的家庭給予合適的照顧跟支持\n對不對現行的狀況是不是就是這樣好那這個案子因為他已經變成全國矚目他上了全國新聞剛剛還有影片放出來真的是慘不忍睹對不對那我想了解一下你們現在中央各部會有沒有去了解這個個案的狀況請問這個個案的狀況是他的家庭照護是屬於百密一疏平常很好但是發生這樣的事情還是說平常就疏於照顧等於家庭在支持系統方面是不合格的請問是屬於哪一種你沒有了解嗎\n韓國瑜\n現在大家都做了把被害人做心理輔導這是本來就應該做的事情嘛然後你盡量去撫平他的傷痛這本身就沒有問題了但現在問題就是這樣就是說現在這個加害者這個個案是他家庭是屬於長期失能的狀況還是他其實是正常但就是漏了那個第一個這個事情要先做先做釐清第二個我要講的也結合剛剛很多委員在問的就是說如果因為發生一次這樣的事情\n然後我們就說全面列管然後又增加社工的工作負擔恐怕不見得從政策的方面能夠有效執行但是但是是不是針對類似的狀況可以做一個檢討那讓先至少讓政府去了解他的家庭狀況我用家庭狀況來區分嘛\n如果這個人是有身心障礙的不管是智能也好精神也好然後他的家庭是足以支持的那我們應該想辦法鼓勵或加強家庭管理的力道這樣去減低你們社政的負擔如果你經過了盤查跟調查之後發現很多個案的家庭狀況是不OK的他很有可能就是特別的他可能就是隱形的炸彈我雖然這樣講有一點點有一點點無名化的意思但事實發生在這個地方所以我至少希望要求中央政府部委針對這個案子去做一個盤查身心障礙者可能行為\n你不能等事情發生之後再列管我是覺得就來不及了事前先了解他們的家庭支持狀況你這樣才有辦法大家可以有效的去跟社會做溝通比如說守望相助或什麼也透過把家庭的環節拉進來你才能減低你社工跟相關行政人員的負擔嘛\n我想這個才是解決這個個案長遠之道那我不希望說今天質詢的時候只是說我對個案還不是很瞭解既然都上了新聞是矚目公安今天都還排了專案報告那就要對個案要有深刻的瞭解啦好不好這是後續處理就針對加害人的這一部分後續的處理希望競速啊跟本席答覆可以嗎\n謝謝委員提醒這個部分我們希望一個事件就能夠做系統性的一個系統性的就是把家庭拉進來用家庭為單位來做能夠因為這樣改善好不好本期的建議是這樣希望衛福部可以來執行好不好我們會把這個部分的一個報告再給委員好謝謝謝謝林委員謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.218 --> 00:11.223\n謝謝主席部長跟這個社會救助跟社工吧市長有請\n\n00:16.107 --> 00:34.295\n委員好,這部長無安喔,這無安,大家今天都談龜山這件事,又發生在本期選區喔,是,這非常煎熬啊,是,就剛剛劉建國委員講得很清楚啊,就是說像這樣子案例非常特殊啊,如果說大家要這個加強列管等等,它其實某一些層面來講可能會造成社工更進一步的負擔。\n\n00:34.815 --> 00:59.561\n但這事就發生了嘛那這事發生的時候選區是極度恐慌的狀態治安的狀態我是很為難啦我當然不希望不管是智能障礙也好或者是精神障礙被汙名化可是這社區的恐慌它確實造成然後當大家都講說要把它關起來或什麼的時候其實本期非常為難所以我們今天一定要花一點時間討論這一件事情啦剛剛本期有講非常清楚這一案的狀況非常特殊就是說它並不一開始並不是所謂屬於的精神障礙對不對\n\n01:00.862 --> 01:09.332\n他只是中度智能障礙而已對不對好那我想請問以現行的制度啦這個相關的官員可以做補充不屬於精神障礙的情況之下有沒有開案列管制度上規定要不要開案列管\n\n01:17.077 --> 01:44.808\n報告委員我們這個全國的精神病人這邊來收案做關懷訪視不是因為他有沒有零有手冊而是說針對病情比較嚴重的一些對我現在講這個案例他之所以特別就是因為他一開始不是所謂的精神疾病的狀況他是智能障礙情況那智能障礙有沒有列管在我們這個精神衛生這邊是沒有是沒有列管對不對那那個社政方面的有沒有列管現在制度是什麼\n\n01:46.397 --> 01:49.647\n好身上我剛剛不太確定沒關係上來說明一下就好\n\n01:51.188 --> 02:18.026\n各位報告,他這個如果說經過身心障礙鑑定的話,他如果符合資格他是可以在用身心障礙的部分,他是拿進來列管的當然是有列管所謂的身心障礙的這個名額嘛,但我的意思是說列管之後他的管理是什麼?比如說我只是提供一項生活輔助或什麼之類的,或者說他可以請領相關補助,這是大家普遍的了解嘛可是針對特殊個案的這些行為或什麼,他現在有特別的規矩嗎?或者是有特別的規制嗎?\n\n02:19.484 --> 02:44.782\n生意障礙的部分的話他是用各管的方式也就是說他可以想做相關的福利服務跟現在都還是從福利的角度出發所以現在問題就在這個地方就是說他沒有在沒有特殊行為之前他當然就不屬於要特定的開案列管就規範行為的一個模式嘛對不對那不列管的情況之下所以其實就等於是在行為方面是沒有列管那不列管的情況之下我們是不是只能期待就是說當事人的家庭給予合適的照顧跟支持\n\n02:45.834 --> 03:10.035\n對不對現行的狀況是不是就是這樣好那這個案子因為他已經變成全國矚目他上了全國新聞剛剛還有影片放出來真的是慘不忍睹對不對那我想了解一下你們現在中央各部會有沒有去了解這個個案的狀況請問這個個案的狀況是他的家庭照護是屬於百密一疏平常很好但是發生這樣的事情還是說平常就疏於照顧等於家庭在支持系統方面是不合格的請問是屬於哪一種你沒有了解嗎\n\n03:12.092 --> 03:12.112\n韓國瑜\n\n03:28.192 --> 03:48.631\n現在大家都做了把被害人做心理輔導這是本來就應該做的事情嘛然後你盡量去撫平他的傷痛這本身就沒有問題了但現在問題就是這樣就是說現在這個加害者這個個案是他家庭是屬於長期失能的狀況還是他其實是正常但就是漏了那個第一個這個事情要先做先做釐清第二個我要講的也結合剛剛很多委員在問的就是說如果因為發生一次這樣的事情\n\n03:49.031 --> 04:04.557\n然後我們就說全面列管然後又增加社工的工作負擔恐怕不見得從政策的方面能夠有效執行但是但是是不是針對類似的狀況可以做一個檢討那讓先至少讓政府去了解他的家庭狀況我用家庭狀況來區分嘛\n\n04:06.778 --> 04:35.667\n如果這個人是有身心障礙的不管是智能也好精神也好然後他的家庭是足以支持的那我們應該想辦法鼓勵或加強家庭管理的力道這樣去減低你們社政的負擔如果你經過了盤查跟調查之後發現很多個案的家庭狀況是不OK的他很有可能就是特別的他可能就是隱形的炸彈我雖然這樣講有一點點有一點點無名化的意思但事實發生在這個地方所以我至少希望要求中央政府部委針對這個案子去做一個盤查身心障礙者可能行為\n\n04:36.767 --> 04:53.011\n你不能等事情發生之後再列管我是覺得就來不及了事前先了解他們的家庭支持狀況你這樣才有辦法大家可以有效的去跟社會做溝通比如說守望相助或什麼也透過把家庭的環節拉進來你才能減低你社工跟相關行政人員的負擔嘛\n\n04:53.351 --> 05:11.218\n我想這個才是解決這個個案長遠之道那我不希望說今天質詢的時候只是說我對個案還不是很瞭解既然都上了新聞是矚目公安今天都還排了專案報告那就要對個案要有深刻的瞭解啦好不好這是後續處理就針對加害人的這一部分後續的處理希望競速啊跟本席答覆可以嗎\n\n05:12.822 --> 05:29.259\n謝謝委員提醒這個部分我們希望一個事件就能夠做系統性的一個系統性的就是把家庭拉進來用家庭為單位來做能夠因為這樣改善好不好本期的建議是這樣希望衛福部可以來執行好不好我們會把這個部分的一個報告再給委員好謝謝謝謝林委員謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.218,"end":11.223,"text":"謝謝主席部長跟這個社會救助跟社工吧市長有請"},{"start":16.107,"end":34.295,"text":"委員好,這部長無安喔,這無安,大家今天都談龜山這件事,又發生在本期選區喔,是,這非常煎熬啊,是,就剛剛劉建國委員講得很清楚啊,就是說像這樣子案例非常特殊啊,如果說大家要這個加強列管等等,它其實某一些層面來講可能會造成社工更進一步的負擔。"},{"start":34.815,"end":59.561,"text":"但這事就發生了嘛那這事發生的時候選區是極度恐慌的狀態治安的狀態我是很為難啦我當然不希望不管是智能障礙也好或者是精神障礙被汙名化可是這社區的恐慌它確實造成然後當大家都講說要把它關起來或什麼的時候其實本期非常為難所以我們今天一定要花一點時間討論這一件事情啦剛剛本期有講非常清楚這一案的狀況非常特殊就是說它並不一開始並不是所謂屬於的精神障礙對不對"},{"start":60.862,"end":69.332,"text":"他只是中度智能障礙而已對不對好那我想請問以現行的制度啦這個相關的官員可以做補充不屬於精神障礙的情況之下有沒有開案列管制度上規定要不要開案列管"},{"start":77.077,"end":104.808,"text":"報告委員我們這個全國的精神病人這邊來收案做關懷訪視不是因為他有沒有零有手冊而是說針對病情比較嚴重的一些對我現在講這個案例他之所以特別就是因為他一開始不是所謂的精神疾病的狀況他是智能障礙情況那智能障礙有沒有列管在我們這個精神衛生這邊是沒有是沒有列管對不對那那個社政方面的有沒有列管現在制度是什麼"},{"start":106.397,"end":109.647,"text":"好 身上 我剛剛不太確定 沒關係上來說明一下就好"},{"start":111.188,"end":138.026,"text":"各位報告,他這個如果說經過身心障礙鑑定的話,他如果符合資格他是可以在用身心障礙的部分,他是拿進來列管的當然是有列管所謂的身心障礙的這個名額嘛,但我的意思是說列管之後他的管理是什麼?比如說我只是提供一項生活輔助或什麼之類的,或者說他可以請領相關補助,這是大家普遍的了解嘛可是針對特殊個案的這些行為或什麼,他現在有特別的規矩嗎?或者是有特別的規制嗎?"},{"start":139.484,"end":164.782,"text":"生意障礙的部分的話他是用各管的方式也就是說他可以想做相關的福利服務跟現在都還是從福利的角度出發所以現在問題就在這個地方就是說他沒有在沒有特殊行為之前他當然就不屬於要特定的開案列管就規範行為的一個模式嘛對不對那不列管的情況之下所以其實就等於是在行為方面是沒有列管那不列管的情況之下我們是不是只能期待就是說當事人的家庭給予合適的照顧跟支持"},{"start":165.834,"end":190.035,"text":"對不對現行的狀況是不是就是這樣好那這個案子因為他已經變成全國矚目他上了全國新聞剛剛還有影片放出來真的是慘不忍睹對不對那我想了解一下你們現在中央各部會有沒有去了解這個個案的狀況請問這個個案的狀況是他的家庭照護是屬於百密一疏平常很好但是發生這樣的事情還是說平常就疏於照顧等於家庭在支持系統方面是不合格的請問是屬於哪一種你沒有了解嗎"},{"start":192.092,"end":192.112,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":208.192,"end":228.631,"text":"現在大家都做了把被害人做心理輔導這是本來就應該做的事情嘛然後你盡量去撫平他的傷痛這本身就沒有問題了但現在問題就是這樣就是說現在這個加害者這個個案是他家庭是屬於長期失能的狀況還是他其實是正常但就是漏了那個第一個這個事情要先做先做釐清第二個我要講的也結合剛剛很多委員在問的就是說如果因為發生一次這樣的事情"},{"start":229.031,"end":244.557,"text":"然後我們就說全面列管然後又增加社工的工作負擔恐怕不見得從政策的方面能夠有效執行但是但是是不是針對類似的狀況可以做一個檢討那讓先至少讓政府去了解他的家庭狀況我用家庭狀況來區分嘛"},{"start":246.778,"end":275.667,"text":"如果這個人是有身心障礙的不管是智能也好精神也好然後他的家庭是足以支持的那我們應該想辦法鼓勵或加強家庭管理的力道這樣去減低你們社政的負擔如果你經過了盤查跟調查之後發現很多個案的家庭狀況是不OK的他很有可能就是特別的他可能就是隱形的炸彈我雖然這樣講有一點點有一點點無名化的意思但事實發生在這個地方所以我至少希望要求中央政府部委針對這個案子去做一個盤查身心障礙者可能行為"},{"start":276.767,"end":293.011,"text":"你不能等事情發生之後再列管我是覺得就來不及了事前先了解他們的家庭支持狀況你這樣才有辦法大家可以有效的去跟社會做溝通比如說守望相助或什麼也透過把家庭的環節拉進來你才能減低你社工跟相關行政人員的負擔嘛"},{"start":293.351,"end":311.218,"text":"我想這個才是解決這個個案長遠之道那我不希望說今天質詢的時候只是說我對個案還不是很瞭解既然都上了新聞是矚目公安今天都還排了專案報告那就要對個案要有深刻的瞭解啦好不好這是後續處理就針對加害人的這一部分後續的處理希望競速啊跟本席答覆可以嗎"},{"start":312.822,"end":329.259,"text":"謝謝委員提醒這個部分我們希望一個事件就能夠做系統性的一個系統性的就是把家庭拉進來用家庭為單位來做能夠因為這樣改善好不好本期的建議是這樣希望衛福部可以來執行好不好我們會把這個部分的一個報告再給委員好謝謝謝謝林委員謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1164,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（12時53分）謝謝主席，有請部長跟社會救助及社工司司長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長午安。大家今天都談龜山這件事，因為發生在本席選區，這個非常煎熬。剛剛劉建國委員講得很清楚，像這樣的案例非常特殊，如果說要加強列管等等，它其實某些層面來講可能會造成社工更進一步的負擔。但這事就發生了嘛，這事發生的時候選區的治安是在極度恐慌的狀態，我是很為難啊！我當然不希望是智能障礙或者是精神障礙被污名化，可是它確實造成社區的恐慌，然後當大家都講要把他關起來或什麼的時候，其實本席非常為難，所以我們今天一定要花一點時間討論這件事情。剛剛本席講得非常清楚，這一案的狀況非常特殊，他一開始並不屬於精神障礙對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：他只是中度智能障礙而已，對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：那我想請問以現行的制度，不屬於精神障礙的情況下有沒有開案列管？相關的官員可以做補充。"],["邱部長泰源：好……"],["牛委員煦庭：制度規定上要不要開案列管？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：報告委員，我們全國的精神病人這邊來收案做關懷訪視，不是因為他有沒有領有手冊，而是針對病情比較嚴重的一些診斷或者……"],["牛委員煦庭：對，我現在講這個案例，他之所以特別就是因為他一開始不是所謂精神疾病的狀況，他是智能障礙的情況，那智能障礙有沒有列管？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：在精神衛生這邊是沒有。"],["牛委員煦庭：是沒有列管。那社政方面有沒有列管？現在的制度是什麼？身障？我剛剛不太確定，沒關係，請上來說明一下。"],["周代理署長道君：跟委員報告，他如果是經過身心障礙鑑定又符合資格，他是可以用身心障礙的部分納進來列管。"],["牛委員煦庭：當然是有列管身心障礙的名額嘛，但我的意思是說，列管之後它的管理是什麼？比如說只是提供生活扶助或什麼之類的，或是可以請領相關補助，這是大家普遍了解，可是針對特殊個案的行為，現在有特別的規矩嗎？或是有特別的規制嗎？"],["周代理署長道君：身心障礙的部分是用個管的方式，也就是說他享受相關的福利服務跟一些輔助。"],["牛委員煦庭：對嘛！現在都還是從福利的角度出發，所以現在問題就在這個地方，就是說他在沒有特殊行為之前，當然就不屬於特定開案列管要去規範行為的一個模式，那不列管的情況之下，其實就等於是在行為方面沒有列管。那不列管的情況之下，我們是不是只能期待當事人的家庭給予合適的照顧跟支持，現行的狀況是不是就是這樣？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：這個案子因為他已經變成全國矚目，他上了全國新聞，剛剛還有影片放出來，真的是慘不忍睹。我想了解一下，現在中央各部會有沒有去了解這個個案的狀況，請問這個個案的狀況是他的家庭照護屬於百密一疏，平常很好但是發生這樣的事情，還是平常就疏於照顧，等於家庭在支持系統方面是不合格的，請問是屬於哪一種？你們有了解嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：委員其實分析的很好，不曉得我們在這個部分有沒有去了解……"],["牛委員煦庭：沒有！現在看起來暫時回答不出來。沒關係，請你用最快的速度，你也跟桃園社會局聯繫一下嘛。"],["張司長秀鴛：是。被害人部分我們有掌握，行為人的部分我們還……"],["牛委員煦庭：現在大家的做法都是讓被害人做心理輔導，這本來就是應該做的事情，你要儘量去撫平他的傷痛，這本身沒有問題。但現在問題就是這個加害者個案，他家庭是屬於長期失能的狀況？還是他其實是正常，但就是漏了那一個……第一個，這件事要先做釐清。","第二個，我要講的也結合剛剛很多委員在問的，如果因為發生一次這樣的事情，然後我們就全面列管又增加社工的工作負擔，恐怕不見得從政策的方面能夠有效執行。但是，是不是可以針對類似的狀況做一個檢討，至少先讓社工師去了解他的家庭狀況？我用家庭狀況來區分，如果這個人是有身心障礙的，不管是智能也好精神也好，只要他的家庭是足以支持的，那我們應該想辦法鼓勵或加強家庭管理力道，這樣也減低你們社政的負擔；但如果你經過盤查跟調查後發現個案的家庭狀況是不OK的，他很有可能就是特別的……可能他就是隱形的炸彈，雖然這樣講有一點點污名化的意思，但事實就發生在這個地方。","所以我要求中央部會至少針對這個案子做一個盤查，去了解身心障礙者可能行為……你不能等事情發生之後再列管，我覺得就來不及了，事先了解他們的家庭支持狀況，這樣才有辦法可以有效的去跟社會做溝通，比如說守望相助或什麼，也透過把家庭的環節拉進來，你才能減低社工跟相關行政人員的負擔，我想這個才是解決這個個案的長遠之道。","我不希望說今天質詢的時候你只是說對個案還不是很了解，既然都上了新聞，就是眾所矚目，今天還排了專案報告，那就要對個案有深刻的了解啦，好不好？這是後續處理，就針對加害人的這一部分，後續的處遇希望儘速給本席答復可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：可以。謝謝委員提醒這個部分，我們希望一個事件就能夠做系統性的一個檢討……"],["牛委員煦庭：系統性的把家庭拉進來……"],["邱部長泰源：然後整個制度能夠因為這樣而改善……"],["牛委員煦庭：用家庭為單位來做，本席的建議是這樣，希望衛福部可以來支持，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：我們會把這個部分的報告再給委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝牛委員，謝謝部長。","接續請楊曜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","鍾佳濱","林國成","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","賴士葆","黃秀芳","陳雪生","王育敏","劉建國","牛煦庭","楊曜","陳瑩","黃國昌","盧縣一"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2024-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結報告案1案；二、邀\n請衛生福利部部長針對「社區精神病患照護優化」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139301_00003"}}}