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\"start\": 927.627, \"end\": 927.747, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 927.747, \"end\": 928.027, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 928.027, \"end\": 928.347, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 928.347, \"end\": 928.607, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 928.607, \"end\": 928.847, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 928.847, \"end\": 929.047, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 929.047, \"end\": 929.067, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 929.067, \"end\": 929.087, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 929.087, \"end\": 929.267, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 929.267, \"end\": 929.387, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 929.387, \"end\": 929.507, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"休\", \"start\": 929.507, \"end\": 929.667, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 929.667, \"end\": 929.747, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 929.747, \"end\": 929.767, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"鐘\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,919 --> 00:00:20,241\n院長謝謝,麻煩請我們行政院長、卓榮泰卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。進步緩忙。\n\n2\n00:00:34,861 --> 00:01:02,531\n我們最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告是按照多年來的慣例業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查一條一條審該減、該刪、該動就來審查所以這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後我在主席台特別講說很遺憾我們接下來沒有預算可以審\n\n3\n00:01:03,769 --> 00:01:18,099\n所以總預算現在被擋在你也不能說他退回了他就擋在陰陽魔戒卡在中間在程序委員會進退不得大概六七次了也不知道未來怎麼樣所以本期今天要詢問就是\n\n4\n00:01:19,295 --> 00:01:43,726\n假設總預算是這樣狀態我們未來的政務該怎麼處理因為國家還是要運作不管是國防、經濟、交通建設所以目前我們遇到的狀況是如果這個總預算持續這個狀態下去那明年的新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛那我們以往有新增項目預算在各部會其實都會做一些預製作業\n\n5\n00:01:45,475 --> 00:02:06,411\n比方說像我們國防部明年要配發兩萬多把的新的步槍ST112要給我們的單位用可是現在總預算前景不明到底要不要先預劃預劃完了預算都還是不明這個後續會不會影響我今天主要是針對這些因應的作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長\n\n6\n00:02:07,762 --> 00:02:36,493\n比方說像軍公教人員明年要調薪3%因應物價的指數也因應我們現在整個整體經濟我們希望能夠經濟成長共享讓公教人員也好甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲目前為止因為明年的過年蠻快的一月底就過年了有關這個公教人員調薪3%如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動那院長我們打算怎麼辦\n\n7\n00:02:38,039 --> 00:02:40,755\n這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難因為在\n\n8\n00:02:42,168 --> 00:03:07,866\n軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中,中央政府本身122億,要補助給地方90億,但重要的是...地方90億...要補助給地方90億...地方議會現在心災無損...地方自己要編的是50億,那這個沒有過,他們不曉得怎麼樣編,這個來源,裁法源就沒有了。我今天就要請問,因為我們主計長我們老朋友了,我從議員就認識你,我現在就要問這個問題啊,\n\n9\n00:03:09,227 --> 00:03:34,834\n因為明年度的軍公教條新是很多項目裡面一項我只用這當例子270億我地方政府要編50億我為什麼要編50億呢因為中央補助我90億嘛這另外又牽涉到財劃法你把錢都弄掉了將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了所以財劃法其實要好好討論不要這樣急救張啦昨天那一幕真的是難看而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂我回到我命題本身\n\n10\n00:03:35,834 --> 00:03:52,913\n你中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算也在開議會當中然後我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道所以我請教主計長或者我們的院長以這個命題來講軍公教調薪3%你們現在開始作業了嗎\n\n11\n00:03:57,619 --> 00:04:11,470\n有沒有辦法開始作業?這個是人總那邊在負責。錢沒有著落怎麼準備?是,所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放。那我就請教人總。他作業程序是人總這邊來說明。\n\n12\n00:04:13,251 --> 00:04:34,525\n你們有沒有預置作業先準備好如果我們韓國院長協調成功開始預算開始討論去執行了我相信這預算大家也沒有爭議那到時候過年前該條新的條新村里長的1.5個月新增的部分該給就給但現在不明嘛現在不明嘛就卡在那裡啊人長你們現在有沒有預置作業\n\n13\n00:04:36,235 --> 00:04:59,370\n現在整個我跟委員報告一下現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後我們才會進到所以你現在沒有作業我們現在等於就是Pending在那裡Pending在那裡所以如果持續這個狀況下去最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查或者都不給你審查那這三拍要不要跳\n\n14\n00:05:00,309 --> 00:05:04,270\n另外一個次差的狀況,過了黨的6次、7次、8次、9次開始審查,來不來得及過年前給人家。\n\n15\n00:05:27,184 --> 00:05:27,504\n我這樣詮釋對不對?\n\n16\n00:05:51,656 --> 00:05:54,920\n我跟委員報告啦,其實這個問題喔,可以發展過,我們就還有機會,過年期間就發展得稍微...那你說這句話就是,如果照聽書,其實總預算案我們現在應該在審查啦\n\n17\n00:06:05,077 --> 00:06:11,483\n因為延宕,所以這個作業會慢下來是必然的啦,它已經必然了。但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話,它就會不見嘛,它就沒了嘛。我這樣說沒錯嘛。\n\n18\n00:06:28,601 --> 00:06:34,286\n我另外一個案子,人長可以先請回,像國防目前新增的項目,公開的部分69.5億,但機密的部分我就不講了。\n\n19\n00:06:54,941 --> 00:07:23,405\n新增的部分我們看第二頁我這邊就要請教院長了像我們潛艦國造有20億後續建那我們都知道潛艦國造後續建不是我方自己要造我們還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友冒著被中國經濟制裁甚至於中國去恐嚇他們不可以跟台灣做生意這一些技術協助也好這一些重要的裝備商也好\n\n20\n00:07:25,212 --> 00:07:43,209\n臺灣後續建如果沒有,他沒有必要冒這個險。臺灣如果內部有分歧,預算有問題,他也沒有必要冒這個險啦吼。所以顧立雄部長已經上來了吼。我現在一定要請教就是,目前預算Handing在那個地方都不審查。對於我們前瞻國造後續建你們有沒有什麼計畫?\n\n21\n00:07:44,787 --> 00:07:46,048\n中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區\n\n22\n00:08:06,082 --> 00:08:29,356\n國軍網路環島的第二路由還有我們一些機密的建案,這個等等如果沒有能夠順利審議的話,就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。顧部長,我現在問的問題就是,現在的真實狀況就是總預算卡在那裡,沒有送進來嘛。你們能不能有前置作業,比方說跟這個廠商說,我們會做,只是預算現在還沒有通過。\n\n23\n00:08:31,059 --> 00:08:51,649\n還是你們會遇到困難,連這個都沒有辦法,變成要等預算明朗化,才能去不管是供應商的穩固,或者我們國內自製的部分的預備作業,你們現在到底有沒有辦法先前置作業先做?國行的預算都一定要尊重大院的一個決議,通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。沒過根本連談都沒辦法談齁?\n\n24\n00:08:52,811 --> 00:09:20,172\n沒過的話當然沒有辦法因為我們行政立法的相互讓我們提出預算那當然還是要大院要通過才可以軍公教人員的調整待遇這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理但是人民這個健康的需求實在一日不可等這種國際的軍購的合作更有國際的信用那程度是更嚴重議員長你要講健康需求像那個抗癌新藥的50億\n\n25\n00:09:22,145 --> 00:09:49,361\n你有沒有想過那慢一個月兩個月對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別那個Pending那個卡在那裡影響大我就要問顧部長我們前建後續建其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙嗎這個預算卡在那裡會不會影響他們的意願因為我們現在就是說明年如果那個原型建的\n\n26\n00:09:55,092 --> 00:10:18,786\n其實20億的潛艦預算佔比不大,可能是一個態度,因為我也贊成SAT水測、航測完整之後我們再來處理後續艦的預算,這個我個人支持,但是我們國家要展現一個態度說,來,我這邊有點像depositmoney,就是有點像預訂金,我這20億過,表示我們國家會做這個決心,因為佔整個的比例很低,\n\n27\n00:10:19,426 --> 00:10:33,664\n但連這個都卡到問題的時候那個後續件的那個比如說我們還有很多輸出許可還有很多這個次承包商他作業上他就停下來了他會他如果不過的話他整個就會轉向\n\n28\n00:10:35,910 --> 00:10:56,736\n蘇蘇許可要時間,蘇蘇許可也考量到各國的他們國家的國內政治局勢當局勢變化,今年有40幾個國家改選當他們國家局勢變化,原來有的會不會變沒有了這個是我們現在在擔憂的嘛我另外講一個是我們自己可控的我們明年要配發25000把左右新式步槍,這個T112嘛\n\n29\n00:11:00,318 --> 00:11:09,386\n新式步槍提升步槍兵戰力,預算卡在這裡,我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎?還是要等預算?\n\n30\n00:11:15,879 --> 00:11:32,291\n生殖中心應該還是可以來做啦齁但是問題是這個預算如果沒有通過的話那這個經費沒有辦法撥下去的話那這個生殖中心可能會面你要跳票不是那個是國防部對生殖中心跳票因為這簽了一個訂單嘛兩萬五千把\n\n31\n00:11:34,960 --> 00:12:00,780\n他要預罪製造步槍要時間的要先預購材料那些鋼材啦什麼槍管的材料都要預購的沒有辦法有機會來指引這些東西因為這牽扯到我們的正規我們第一線的主力戰鬥部隊還有後備部隊因為他配發T1122後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新接裝跟下一代的步槍所以這個延宕下去會不會影響到明年我們配發的作業\n\n32\n00:12:03,068 --> 00:12:16,507\n如果沒有辦法如期的在這個會期通過當然會影響因為還有我還要跟委員特別報告因為現在我們有很多這個類似像PDA或者是FMF這些\n\n33\n00:12:17,168 --> 00:12:17,648\n我坦白講\n\n34\n00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:52,394\nPTA是美國總統的特殊撥款權FMF是美國的軍營項目這是三年當他一撥就是300億台幣或者100億台幣然後發現我們台灣的預算連省都不給省\n\n35\n00:12:53,871 --> 00:12:54,231\n國防部長陳大沙倫醫院\n\n36\n00:13:12,146 --> 00:13:35,179\n的計畫但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會一直沒有審下來另外AI園區謝謝院長那個你就任沒有滿月之前你就來這裡選擇AI園區要放在歸人沙倫這個位置那我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目現在大概有四大項一個是AI的物流中心一個是生活資源\n\n37\n00:13:35,839 --> 00:13:36,220\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n38\n00:13:54,855 --> 00:14:12,747\n國發會什麼時候會通過?現在卡在那裡了。跟委員報告,這個沒有送上來,但是我們在10月7號主動的找各單位。你說沒有送上來,我得到的資訊,我得到你們回報資訊說在你那裡。沒有,我說明一下,我們10月7號找了各單位來開會,然後我們提出了改善建議之後,\n\n39\n00:14:14,248 --> 00:14:38,645\n陳大已經把他的改善建議先送到教育部了我希望要快,因為按照期程明年搞不好要動工是幾乎很難搞不好要搞到後年啊你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的大前年我都不好意思算那個年份了所以我特別拜託國發會主委你也問台南的拜託這個時間要縮短了沒問題,因為我們是主動整合各單位的建\n\n40\n00:14:38,925 --> 00:15:01,636\n回到AI園區就是因為AI園區現在我們AI不管是Database、算力或者是演算法它是一個很大的產業鏈那總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國從40幾名到第6名因為時間的關係我建議院長這邊早期我們在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候行政院有組成一個任務編組\n\n41\n00:15:02,967 --> 00:15:04,068\n我們類似這樣的案子\n\n42\n00:15:27,347 --> 00:15:29,767\n謝謝王定宇委員的質詢謝謝主委長及相關部會首長的備詢報言會現在我們休息10分鐘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14919\t20241\t院長謝謝,麻煩請我們行政院長、卓榮泰卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。進步緩忙。\n34861\t62531\t我們最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告是按照多年來的慣例業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查一條一條審該減、該刪、該動就來審查所以這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後我在主席台特別講說很遺憾我們接下來沒有預算可以審\n63769\t78099\t所以總預算現在被擋在你也不能說他退回了他就擋在陰陽魔戒卡在中間在程序委員會進退不得大概六七次了也不知道未來怎麼樣所以本期今天要詢問就是\n79295\t103726\t假設總預算是這樣狀態我們未來的政務該怎麼處理因為國家還是要運作不管是國防、經濟、交通建設所以目前我們遇到的狀況是如果這個總預算持續這個狀態下去那明年的新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛那我們以往有新增項目預算在各部會其實都會做一些預製作業\n105475\t126411\t比方說像我們國防部明年要配發兩萬多把的新的步槍ST112要給我們的單位用可是現在總預算前景不明到底要不要先預劃預劃完了預算都還是不明這個後續會不會影響我今天主要是針對這些因應的作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長\n127762\t156493\t比方說像軍公教人員明年要調薪3%因應物價的指數也因應我們現在整個整體經濟我們希望能夠經濟成長共享讓公教人員也好甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲目前為止因為明年的過年蠻快的一月底就過年了有關這個公教人員調薪3%如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動那院長我們打算怎麼辦\n158039\t160755\t這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難因為在\n162168\t187866\t軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中,中央政府本身122億,要補助給地方90億,但重要的是...地方90億...要補助給地方90億...地方議會現在心災無損...地方自己要編的是50億,那這個沒有過,他們不曉得怎麼樣編,這個來源,裁法源就沒有了。我今天就要請問,因為我們主計長我們老朋友了,我從議員就認識你,我現在就要問這個問題啊,\n189227\t214834\t因為明年度的軍公教條新是很多項目裡面一項我只用這當例子270億我地方政府要編50億我為什麼要編50億呢因為中央補助我90億嘛這另外又牽涉到財劃法你把錢都弄掉了將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了所以財劃法其實要好好討論不要這樣急救張啦昨天那一幕真的是難看而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂我回到我命題本身\n215834\t232913\t你中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算也在開議會當中然後我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道所以我請教主計長或者我們的院長以這個命題來講軍公教調薪3%你們現在開始作業了嗎\n237619\t251470\t有沒有辦法開始作業?這個是人總那邊在負責。錢沒有著落怎麼準備?是,所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放。那我就請教人總。他作業程序是人總這邊來說明。\n253251\t274525\t你們有沒有預置作業先準備好如果我們韓國院長協調成功開始預算開始討論去執行了我相信這預算大家也沒有爭議那到時候過年前該條新的條新村里長的1.5個月新增的部分該給就給但現在不明嘛現在不明嘛就卡在那裡啊人長你們現在有沒有預置作業\n276235\t299370\t現在整個我跟委員報告一下現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後我們才會進到所以你現在沒有作業我們現在等於就是Pending在那裡Pending在那裡所以如果持續這個狀況下去最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查或者都不給你審查那這三拍要不要跳\n300309\t304270\t另外一個次差的狀況,過了黨的6次、7次、8次、9次開始審查,來不來得及過年前給人家。\n327184\t327504\t我這樣詮釋對不對?\n351656\t354920\t我跟委員報告啦,其實這個問題喔,可以發展過,我們就還有機會,過年期間就發展得稍微...那你說這句話就是,如果照聽書,其實總預算案我們現在應該在審查啦\n365077\t371483\t因為延宕,所以這個作業會慢下來是必然的啦,它已經必然了。但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話,它就會不見嘛,它就沒了嘛。我這樣說沒錯嘛。\n388601\t394286\t我另外一個案子,人長可以先請回,像國防目前新增的項目,公開的部分69.5億,但機密的部分我就不講了。\n414941\t443405\t新增的部分我們看第二頁我這邊就要請教院長了像我們潛艦國造有20億後續建那我們都知道潛艦國造後續建不是我方自己要造我們還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友冒著被中國經濟制裁甚至於中國去恐嚇他們不可以跟台灣做生意這一些技術協助也好這一些重要的裝備商也好\n445212\t463209\t臺灣後續建如果沒有,他沒有必要冒這個險。臺灣如果內部有分歧,預算有問題,他也沒有必要冒這個險啦吼。所以顧立雄部長已經上來了吼。我現在一定要請教就是,目前預算Handing在那個地方都不審查。對於我們前瞻國造後續建你們有沒有什麼計畫?\n464787\t466048\t中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區\n486082\t509356\t國軍網路環島的第二路由還有我們一些機密的建案,這個等等如果沒有能夠順利審議的話,就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。顧部長,我現在問的問題就是,現在的真實狀況就是總預算卡在那裡,沒有送進來嘛。你們能不能有前置作業,比方說跟這個廠商說,我們會做,只是預算現在還沒有通過。\n511059\t531649\t還是你們會遇到困難,連這個都沒有辦法,變成要等預算明朗化,才能去不管是供應商的穩固,或者我們國內自製的部分的預備作業,你們現在到底有沒有辦法先前置作業先做?國行的預算都一定要尊重大院的一個決議,通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。沒過根本連談都沒辦法談齁?\n532811\t560172\t沒過的話當然沒有辦法因為我們行政立法的相互讓我們提出預算那當然還是要大院要通過才可以軍公教人員的調整待遇這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理但是人民這個健康的需求實在一日不可等這種國際的軍購的合作更有國際的信用那程度是更嚴重議員長你要講健康需求像那個抗癌新藥的50億\n562145\t589361\t你有沒有想過那慢一個月兩個月對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別那個Pending那個卡在那裡影響大我就要問顧部長我們前建後續建其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙嗎這個預算卡在那裡會不會影響他們的意願因為我們現在就是說明年如果那個原型建的\n595092\t618786\t其實20億的潛艦預算佔比不大,可能是一個態度,因為我也贊成SAT水測、航測完整之後我們再來處理後續艦的預算,這個我個人支持,但是我們國家要展現一個態度說,來,我這邊有點像deposit money,就是有點像預訂金,我這20億過,表示我們國家會做這個決心,因為佔整個的比例很低,\n619426\t633664\t但連這個都卡到問題的時候那個後續件的那個比如說我們還有很多輸出許可還有很多這個次承包商他作業上他就停下來了他會他如果不過的話他整個就會轉向\n635910\t656736\t蘇蘇許可要時間,蘇蘇許可也考量到各國的他們國家的國內政治局勢當局勢變化,今年有40幾個國家改選當他們國家局勢變化,原來有的會不會變沒有了這個是我們現在在擔憂的嘛我另外講一個是我們自己可控的我們明年要配發25000把左右新式步槍,這個T112嘛\n660318\t669386\t新式步槍提升步槍兵戰力,預算卡在這裡,我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎?還是要等預算?\n675879\t692291\t生殖中心應該還是可以來做啦齁但是問題是這個預算如果沒有通過的話那這個經費沒有辦法撥下去的話那這個生殖中心可能會面你要跳票不是那個是國防部對生殖中心跳票因為這簽了一個訂單嘛兩萬五千把\n694960\t720780\t他要預罪製造步槍要時間的要先預購材料那些鋼材啦什麼槍管的材料都要預購的沒有辦法有機會來指引這些東西因為這牽扯到我們的正規我們第一線的主力戰鬥部隊還有後備部隊因為他配發T1122後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新接裝跟下一代的步槍所以這個延宕下去會不會影響到明年我們配發的作業\n723068\t736507\t如果沒有辦法如期的在這個會期通過當然會影響因為還有我還要跟委員特別報告因為現在我們有很多這個類似像PDA或者是FMF這些\n737168\t737648\t我坦白講\n758300\t772394\tPTA是美國總統的特殊撥款權FMF是美國的軍營項目這是三年當他一撥就是300億台幣或者100億台幣然後發現我們台灣的預算連省都不給省\n773871\t774231\t國防部長陳大沙倫醫院\n792146\t815179\t的計畫但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會一直沒有審下來另外AI園區謝謝院長那個你就任沒有滿月之前你就來這裡選擇AI園區要放在歸人沙倫這個位置那我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目現在大概有四大項一個是AI的物流中心一個是生活資源\n815839\t816220\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n834855\t852747\t國發會什麼時候會通過?現在卡在那裡了。跟委員報告,這個沒有送上來,但是我們在10月7號主動的找各單位。你說沒有送上來,我得到的資訊,我得到你們回報資訊說在你那裡。沒有,我說明一下,我們10月7號找了各單位來開會,然後我們提出了改善建議之後,\n854248\t878645\t陳大已經把他的改善建議先送到教育部了我希望要快,因為按照期程明年搞不好要動工是幾乎很難搞不好要搞到後年啊你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的大前年我都不好意思算那個年份了所以我特別拜託國發會主委你也問台南的拜託這個時間要縮短了沒問題,因為我們是主動整合各單位的建\n878925\t901636\t回到AI園區就是因為AI園區現在我們AI不管是Database、算力或者是演算法它是一個很大的產業鏈那總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國從40幾名到第6名因為時間的關係我建議院長這邊早期我們在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候行政院有組成一個任務編組\n902967\t904068\t我們類似這樣的案子\n927347\t929767\t謝謝王定宇委員的質詢謝謝主委長及相關部會首長的備詢報言會現在我們休息10分鐘\n","txt":"院長謝謝,麻煩請我們行政院長、卓榮泰卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。進步緩忙。\n我們最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告是按照多年來的慣例業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查一條一條審該減、該刪、該動就來審查所以這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後我在主席台特別講說很遺憾我們接下來沒有預算可以審\n所以總預算現在被擋在你也不能說他退回了他就擋在陰陽魔戒卡在中間在程序委員會進退不得大概六七次了也不知道未來怎麼樣所以本期今天要詢問就是\n假設總預算是這樣狀態我們未來的政務該怎麼處理因為國家還是要運作不管是國防、經濟、交通建設所以目前我們遇到的狀況是如果這個總預算持續這個狀態下去那明年的新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛那我們以往有新增項目預算在各部會其實都會做一些預製作業\n比方說像我們國防部明年要配發兩萬多把的新的步槍ST112要給我們的單位用可是現在總預算前景不明到底要不要先預劃預劃完了預算都還是不明這個後續會不會影響我今天主要是針對這些因應的作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長\n比方說像軍公教人員明年要調薪3%因應物價的指數也因應我們現在整個整體經濟我們希望能夠經濟成長共享讓公教人員也好甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲目前為止因為明年的過年蠻快的一月底就過年了有關這個公教人員調薪3%如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動那院長我們打算怎麼辦\n這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難因為在\n軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中,中央政府本身122億,要補助給地方90億,但重要的是...地方90億...要補助給地方90億...地方議會現在心災無損...地方自己要編的是50億,那這個沒有過,他們不曉得怎麼樣編,這個來源,裁法源就沒有了。我今天就要請問,因為我們主計長我們老朋友了,我從議員就認識你,我現在就要問這個問題啊,\n因為明年度的軍公教條新是很多項目裡面一項我只用這當例子270億我地方政府要編50億我為什麼要編50億呢因為中央補助我90億嘛這另外又牽涉到財劃法你把錢都弄掉了將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了所以財劃法其實要好好討論不要這樣急救張啦昨天那一幕真的是難看而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂我回到我命題本身\n你中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算也在開議會當中然後我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道所以我請教主計長或者我們的院長以這個命題來講軍公教調薪3%你們現在開始作業了嗎\n有沒有辦法開始作業?這個是人總那邊在負責。錢沒有著落怎麼準備?是,所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放。那我就請教人總。他作業程序是人總這邊來說明。\n你們有沒有預置作業先準備好如果我們韓國院長協調成功開始預算開始討論去執行了我相信這預算大家也沒有爭議那到時候過年前該條新的條新村里長的1.5個月新增的部分該給就給但現在不明嘛現在不明嘛就卡在那裡啊人長你們現在有沒有預置作業\n現在整個我跟委員報告一下現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後我們才會進到所以你現在沒有作業我們現在等於就是Pending在那裡Pending在那裡所以如果持續這個狀況下去最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查或者都不給你審查那這三拍要不要跳\n另外一個次差的狀況,過了黨的6次、7次、8次、9次開始審查,來不來得及過年前給人家。\n我這樣詮釋對不對?\n我跟委員報告啦,其實這個問題喔,可以發展過,我們就還有機會,過年期間就發展得稍微...那你說這句話就是,如果照聽書,其實總預算案我們現在應該在審查啦\n因為延宕,所以這個作業會慢下來是必然的啦,它已經必然了。但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話,它就會不見嘛,它就沒了嘛。我這樣說沒錯嘛。\n我另外一個案子,人長可以先請回,像國防目前新增的項目,公開的部分69.5億,但機密的部分我就不講了。\n新增的部分我們看第二頁我這邊就要請教院長了像我們潛艦國造有20億後續建那我們都知道潛艦國造後續建不是我方自己要造我們還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友冒著被中國經濟制裁甚至於中國去恐嚇他們不可以跟台灣做生意這一些技術協助也好這一些重要的裝備商也好\n臺灣後續建如果沒有,他沒有必要冒這個險。臺灣如果內部有分歧,預算有問題,他也沒有必要冒這個險啦吼。所以顧立雄部長已經上來了吼。我現在一定要請教就是,目前預算Handing在那個地方都不審查。對於我們前瞻國造後續建你們有沒有什麼計畫?\n中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區\n國軍網路環島的第二路由還有我們一些機密的建案,這個等等如果沒有能夠順利審議的話,就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。顧部長,我現在問的問題就是,現在的真實狀況就是總預算卡在那裡,沒有送進來嘛。你們能不能有前置作業,比方說跟這個廠商說,我們會做,只是預算現在還沒有通過。\n還是你們會遇到困難,連這個都沒有辦法,變成要等預算明朗化,才能去不管是供應商的穩固,或者我們國內自製的部分的預備作業,你們現在到底有沒有辦法先前置作業先做?國行的預算都一定要尊重大院的一個決議,通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。沒過根本連談都沒辦法談齁?\n沒過的話當然沒有辦法因為我們行政立法的相互讓我們提出預算那當然還是要大院要通過才可以軍公教人員的調整待遇這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理但是人民這個健康的需求實在一日不可等這種國際的軍購的合作更有國際的信用那程度是更嚴重議員長你要講健康需求像那個抗癌新藥的50億\n你有沒有想過那慢一個月兩個月對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別那個Pending那個卡在那裡影響大我就要問顧部長我們前建後續建其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙嗎這個預算卡在那裡會不會影響他們的意願因為我們現在就是說明年如果那個原型建的\n其實20億的潛艦預算佔比不大,可能是一個態度,因為我也贊成SAT水測、航測完整之後我們再來處理後續艦的預算,這個我個人支持,但是我們國家要展現一個態度說,來,我這邊有點像deposit money,就是有點像預訂金,我這20億過,表示我們國家會做這個決心,因為佔整個的比例很低,\n但連這個都卡到問題的時候那個後續件的那個比如說我們還有很多輸出許可還有很多這個次承包商他作業上他就停下來了他會他如果不過的話他整個就會轉向\n蘇蘇許可要時間,蘇蘇許可也考量到各國的他們國家的國內政治局勢當局勢變化,今年有40幾個國家改選當他們國家局勢變化,原來有的會不會變沒有了這個是我們現在在擔憂的嘛我另外講一個是我們自己可控的我們明年要配發25000把左右新式步槍,這個T112嘛\n新式步槍提升步槍兵戰力,預算卡在這裡,我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎?還是要等預算?\n生殖中心應該還是可以來做啦齁但是問題是這個預算如果沒有通過的話那這個經費沒有辦法撥下去的話那這個生殖中心可能會面你要跳票不是那個是國防部對生殖中心跳票因為這簽了一個訂單嘛兩萬五千把\n他要預罪製造步槍要時間的要先預購材料那些鋼材啦什麼槍管的材料都要預購的沒有辦法有機會來指引這些東西因為這牽扯到我們的正規我們第一線的主力戰鬥部隊還有後備部隊因為他配發T1122後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新接裝跟下一代的步槍所以這個延宕下去會不會影響到明年我們配發的作業\n如果沒有辦法如期的在這個會期通過當然會影響因為還有我還要跟委員特別報告因為現在我們有很多這個類似像PDA或者是FMF這些\n我坦白講\nPTA是美國總統的特殊撥款權FMF是美國的軍營項目這是三年當他一撥就是300億台幣或者100億台幣然後發現我們台灣的預算連省都不給省\n國防部長陳大沙倫醫院\n的計畫但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會一直沒有審下來另外AI園區謝謝院長那個你就任沒有滿月之前你就來這裡選擇AI園區要放在歸人沙倫這個位置那我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目現在大概有四大項一個是AI的物流中心一個是生活資源\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n國發會什麼時候會通過?現在卡在那裡了。跟委員報告,這個沒有送上來,但是我們在10月7號主動的找各單位。你說沒有送上來,我得到的資訊,我得到你們回報資訊說在你那裡。沒有,我說明一下,我們10月7號找了各單位來開會,然後我們提出了改善建議之後,\n陳大已經把他的改善建議先送到教育部了我希望要快,因為按照期程明年搞不好要動工是幾乎很難搞不好要搞到後年啊你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的大前年我都不好意思算那個年份了所以我特別拜託國發會主委你也問台南的拜託這個時間要縮短了沒問題,因為我們是主動整合各單位的建\n回到AI園區就是因為AI園區現在我們AI不管是Database、算力或者是演算法它是一個很大的產業鏈那總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國從40幾名到第6名因為時間的關係我建議院長這邊早期我們在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候行政院有組成一個任務編組\n我們類似這樣的案子\n謝謝王定宇委員的質詢謝謝主委長及相關部會首長的備詢報言會現在我們休息10分鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.919 --> 00:20.241\n院長謝謝,麻煩請我們行政院長、卓榮泰卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。進步緩忙。\n\n00:34.861 --> 01:02.531\n我們最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告是按照多年來的慣例業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查一條一條審該減、該刪、該動就來審查所以這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後我在主席台特別講說很遺憾我們接下來沒有預算可以審\n\n01:03.769 --> 01:18.099\n所以總預算現在被擋在你也不能說他退回了他就擋在陰陽魔戒卡在中間在程序委員會進退不得大概六七次了也不知道未來怎麼樣所以本期今天要詢問就是\n\n01:19.295 --> 01:43.726\n假設總預算是這樣狀態我們未來的政務該怎麼處理因為國家還是要運作不管是國防、經濟、交通建設所以目前我們遇到的狀況是如果這個總預算持續這個狀態下去那明年的新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛那我們以往有新增項目預算在各部會其實都會做一些預製作業\n\n01:45.475 --> 02:06.411\n比方說像我們國防部明年要配發兩萬多把的新的步槍ST112要給我們的單位用可是現在總預算前景不明到底要不要先預劃預劃完了預算都還是不明這個後續會不會影響我今天主要是針對這些因應的作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長\n\n02:07.762 --> 02:36.493\n比方說像軍公教人員明年要調薪3%因應物價的指數也因應我們現在整個整體經濟我們希望能夠經濟成長共享讓公教人員也好甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲目前為止因為明年的過年蠻快的一月底就過年了有關這個公教人員調薪3%如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動那院長我們打算怎麼辦\n\n02:38.039 --> 02:40.755\n這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難因為在\n\n02:42.168 --> 03:07.866\n軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中,中央政府本身122億,要補助給地方90億,但重要的是...地方90億...要補助給地方90億...地方議會現在心災無損...地方自己要編的是50億,那這個沒有過,他們不曉得怎麼樣編,這個來源,裁法源就沒有了。我今天就要請問,因為我們主計長我們老朋友了,我從議員就認識你,我現在就要問這個問題啊,\n\n03:09.227 --> 03:34.834\n因為明年度的軍公教條新是很多項目裡面一項我只用這當例子270億我地方政府要編50億我為什麼要編50億呢因為中央補助我90億嘛這另外又牽涉到財劃法你把錢都弄掉了將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了所以財劃法其實要好好討論不要這樣急救張啦昨天那一幕真的是難看而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂我回到我命題本身\n\n03:35.834 --> 03:52.913\n你中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算也在開議會當中然後我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道所以我請教主計長或者我們的院長以這個命題來講軍公教調薪3%你們現在開始作業了嗎\n\n03:57.619 --> 04:11.470\n有沒有辦法開始作業?這個是人總那邊在負責。錢沒有著落怎麼準備?是,所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放。那我就請教人總。他作業程序是人總這邊來說明。\n\n04:13.251 --> 04:34.525\n你們有沒有預置作業先準備好如果我們韓國院長協調成功開始預算開始討論去執行了我相信這預算大家也沒有爭議那到時候過年前該條新的條新村里長的1.5個月新增的部分該給就給但現在不明嘛現在不明嘛就卡在那裡啊人長你們現在有沒有預置作業\n\n04:36.235 --> 04:59.370\n現在整個我跟委員報告一下現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後我們才會進到所以你現在沒有作業我們現在等於就是Pending在那裡Pending在那裡所以如果持續這個狀況下去最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查或者都不給你審查那這三拍要不要跳\n\n05:00.309 --> 05:04.270\n另外一個次差的狀況,過了黨的6次、7次、8次、9次開始審查,來不來得及過年前給人家。\n\n05:27.184 --> 05:27.504\n我這樣詮釋對不對?\n\n05:51.656 --> 05:54.920\n我跟委員報告啦,其實這個問題喔,可以發展過,我們就還有機會,過年期間就發展得稍微...那你說這句話就是,如果照聽書,其實總預算案我們現在應該在審查啦\n\n06:05.077 --> 06:11.483\n因為延宕,所以這個作業會慢下來是必然的啦,它已經必然了。但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話,它就會不見嘛,它就沒了嘛。我這樣說沒錯嘛。\n\n06:28.601 --> 06:34.286\n我另外一個案子,人長可以先請回,像國防目前新增的項目,公開的部分69.5億,但機密的部分我就不講了。\n\n06:54.941 --> 07:23.405\n新增的部分我們看第二頁我這邊就要請教院長了像我們潛艦國造有20億後續建那我們都知道潛艦國造後續建不是我方自己要造我們還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友冒著被中國經濟制裁甚至於中國去恐嚇他們不可以跟台灣做生意這一些技術協助也好這一些重要的裝備商也好\n\n07:25.212 --> 07:43.209\n臺灣後續建如果沒有,他沒有必要冒這個險。臺灣如果內部有分歧,預算有問題,他也沒有必要冒這個險啦吼。所以顧立雄部長已經上來了吼。我現在一定要請教就是,目前預算Handing在那個地方都不審查。對於我們前瞻國造後續建你們有沒有什麼計畫?\n\n07:44.787 --> 07:46.048\n中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區\n\n08:06.082 --> 08:29.356\n國軍網路環島的第二路由還有我們一些機密的建案,這個等等如果沒有能夠順利審議的話,就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。顧部長,我現在問的問題就是,現在的真實狀況就是總預算卡在那裡,沒有送進來嘛。你們能不能有前置作業,比方說跟這個廠商說,我們會做,只是預算現在還沒有通過。\n\n08:31.059 --> 08:51.649\n還是你們會遇到困難,連這個都沒有辦法,變成要等預算明朗化,才能去不管是供應商的穩固,或者我們國內自製的部分的預備作業,你們現在到底有沒有辦法先前置作業先做?國行的預算都一定要尊重大院的一個決議,通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。沒過根本連談都沒辦法談齁?\n\n08:52.811 --> 09:20.172\n沒過的話當然沒有辦法因為我們行政立法的相互讓我們提出預算那當然還是要大院要通過才可以軍公教人員的調整待遇這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理但是人民這個健康的需求實在一日不可等這種國際的軍購的合作更有國際的信用那程度是更嚴重議員長你要講健康需求像那個抗癌新藥的50億\n\n09:22.145 --> 09:49.361\n你有沒有想過那慢一個月兩個月對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別那個Pending那個卡在那裡影響大我就要問顧部長我們前建後續建其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙嗎這個預算卡在那裡會不會影響他們的意願因為我們現在就是說明年如果那個原型建的\n\n09:55.092 --> 10:18.786\n其實20億的潛艦預算佔比不大,可能是一個態度,因為我也贊成SAT水測、航測完整之後我們再來處理後續艦的預算,這個我個人支持,但是我們國家要展現一個態度說,來,我這邊有點像depositmoney,就是有點像預訂金,我這20億過,表示我們國家會做這個決心,因為佔整個的比例很低,\n\n10:19.426 --> 10:33.664\n但連這個都卡到問題的時候那個後續件的那個比如說我們還有很多輸出許可還有很多這個次承包商他作業上他就停下來了他會他如果不過的話他整個就會轉向\n\n10:35.910 --> 10:56.736\n蘇蘇許可要時間,蘇蘇許可也考量到各國的他們國家的國內政治局勢當局勢變化,今年有40幾個國家改選當他們國家局勢變化,原來有的會不會變沒有了這個是我們現在在擔憂的嘛我另外講一個是我們自己可控的我們明年要配發25000把左右新式步槍,這個T112嘛\n\n11:00.318 --> 11:09.386\n新式步槍提升步槍兵戰力,預算卡在這裡,我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎?還是要等預算?\n\n11:15.879 --> 11:32.291\n生殖中心應該還是可以來做啦齁但是問題是這個預算如果沒有通過的話那這個經費沒有辦法撥下去的話那這個生殖中心可能會面你要跳票不是那個是國防部對生殖中心跳票因為這簽了一個訂單嘛兩萬五千把\n\n11:34.960 --> 12:00.780\n他要預罪製造步槍要時間的要先預購材料那些鋼材啦什麼槍管的材料都要預購的沒有辦法有機會來指引這些東西因為這牽扯到我們的正規我們第一線的主力戰鬥部隊還有後備部隊因為他配發T1122後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新接裝跟下一代的步槍所以這個延宕下去會不會影響到明年我們配發的作業\n\n12:03.068 --> 12:16.507\n如果沒有辦法如期的在這個會期通過當然會影響因為還有我還要跟委員特別報告因為現在我們有很多這個類似像PDA或者是FMF這些\n\n12:17.168 --> 12:17.648\n我坦白講\n\n12:38.300 --> 12:52.394\nPTA是美國總統的特殊撥款權FMF是美國的軍營項目這是三年當他一撥就是300億台幣或者100億台幣然後發現我們台灣的預算連省都不給省\n\n12:53.871 --> 12:54.231\n國防部長陳大沙倫醫院\n\n13:12.146 --> 13:35.179\n的計畫但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會一直沒有審下來另外AI園區謝謝院長那個你就任沒有滿月之前你就來這裡選擇AI園區要放在歸人沙倫這個位置那我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目現在大概有四大項一個是AI的物流中心一個是生活資源\n\n13:35.839 --> 13:36.220\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n13:54.855 --> 14:12.747\n國發會什麼時候會通過?現在卡在那裡了。跟委員報告,這個沒有送上來,但是我們在10月7號主動的找各單位。你說沒有送上來,我得到的資訊,我得到你們回報資訊說在你那裡。沒有,我說明一下,我們10月7號找了各單位來開會,然後我們提出了改善建議之後,\n\n14:14.248 --> 14:38.645\n陳大已經把他的改善建議先送到教育部了我希望要快,因為按照期程明年搞不好要動工是幾乎很難搞不好要搞到後年啊你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的大前年我都不好意思算那個年份了所以我特別拜託國發會主委你也問台南的拜託這個時間要縮短了沒問題,因為我們是主動整合各單位的建\n\n14:38.925 --> 15:01.636\n回到AI園區就是因為AI園區現在我們AI不管是Database、算力或者是演算法它是一個很大的產業鏈那總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國從40幾名到第6名因為時間的關係我建議院長這邊早期我們在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候行政院有組成一個任務編組\n\n15:02.967 --> 15:04.068\n我們類似這樣的案子\n\n15:27.347 --> 15:29.767\n謝謝王定宇委員的質詢謝謝主委長及相關部會首長的備詢報言會現在我們休息10分鐘\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.919,"end":20.241,"text":"院長謝謝,麻煩請我們行政院長、卓榮泰卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。進步緩忙。"},{"start":34.861,"end":62.531,"text":"我們最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告是按照多年來的慣例業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查一條一條審該減、該刪、該動就來審查所以這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後我在主席台特別講說很遺憾我們接下來沒有預算可以審"},{"start":63.769,"end":78.099,"text":"所以總預算現在被擋在你也不能說他退回了他就擋在陰陽魔戒卡在中間在程序委員會進退不得大概六七次了也不知道未來怎麼樣所以本期今天要詢問就是"},{"start":79.295,"end":103.726,"text":"假設總預算是這樣狀態我們未來的政務該怎麼處理因為國家還是要運作不管是國防、經濟、交通建設所以目前我們遇到的狀況是如果這個總預算持續這個狀態下去那明年的新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛那我們以往有新增項目預算在各部會其實都會做一些預製作業"},{"start":105.475,"end":126.411,"text":"比方說像我們國防部明年要配發兩萬多把的新的步槍ST112要給我們的單位用可是現在總預算前景不明到底要不要先預劃預劃完了預算都還是不明這個後續會不會影響我今天主要是針對這些因應的作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長"},{"start":127.762,"end":156.493,"text":"比方說像軍公教人員明年要調薪3%因應物價的指數也因應我們現在整個整體經濟我們希望能夠經濟成長共享讓公教人員也好甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲目前為止因為明年的過年蠻快的一月底就過年了有關這個公教人員調薪3%如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動那院長我們打算怎麼辦"},{"start":158.039,"end":160.755,"text":"這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難因為在"},{"start":162.168,"end":187.866,"text":"軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中,中央政府本身122億,要補助給地方90億,但重要的是...地方90億...要補助給地方90億...地方議會現在心災無損...地方自己要編的是50億,那這個沒有過,他們不曉得怎麼樣編,這個來源,裁法源就沒有了。我今天就要請問,因為我們主計長我們老朋友了,我從議員就認識你,我現在就要問這個問題啊,"},{"start":189.227,"end":214.834,"text":"因為明年度的軍公教條新是很多項目裡面一項我只用這當例子270億我地方政府要編50億我為什麼要編50億呢因為中央補助我90億嘛這另外又牽涉到財劃法你把錢都弄掉了將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了所以財劃法其實要好好討論不要這樣急救張啦昨天那一幕真的是難看而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂我回到我命題本身"},{"start":215.834,"end":232.913,"text":"你中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算也在開議會當中然後我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道所以我請教主計長或者我們的院長以這個命題來講軍公教調薪3%你們現在開始作業了嗎"},{"start":237.619,"end":251.47,"text":"有沒有辦法開始作業?這個是人總那邊在負責。錢沒有著落怎麼準備?是,所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放。那我就請教人總。他作業程序是人總這邊來說明。"},{"start":253.251,"end":274.525,"text":"你們有沒有預置作業先準備好如果我們韓國院長協調成功開始預算開始討論去執行了我相信這預算大家也沒有爭議那到時候過年前該條新的條新村里長的1.5個月新增的部分該給就給但現在不明嘛現在不明嘛就卡在那裡啊人長你們現在有沒有預置作業"},{"start":276.235,"end":299.37,"text":"現在整個我跟委員報告一下現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後我們才會進到所以你現在沒有作業我們現在等於就是Pending在那裡Pending在那裡所以如果持續這個狀況下去最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查或者都不給你審查那這三拍要不要跳"},{"start":300.309,"end":304.27,"text":"另外一個次差的狀況,過了黨的6次、7次、8次、9次開始審查,來不來得及過年前給人家。"},{"start":327.184,"end":327.504,"text":"我這樣詮釋對不對?"},{"start":351.656,"end":354.92,"text":"我跟委員報告啦,其實這個問題喔,可以發展過,我們就還有機會,過年期間就發展得稍微...那你說這句話就是,如果照聽書,其實總預算案我們現在應該在審查啦"},{"start":365.077,"end":371.483,"text":"因為延宕,所以這個作業會慢下來是必然的啦,它已經必然了。但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話,它就會不見嘛,它就沒了嘛。我這樣說沒錯嘛。"},{"start":388.601,"end":394.286,"text":"我另外一個案子,人長可以先請回,像國防目前新增的項目,公開的部分69.5億,但機密的部分我就不講了。"},{"start":414.941,"end":443.405,"text":"新增的部分我們看第二頁我這邊就要請教院長了像我們潛艦國造有20億後續建那我們都知道潛艦國造後續建不是我方自己要造我們還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友冒著被中國經濟制裁甚至於中國去恐嚇他們不可以跟台灣做生意這一些技術協助也好這一些重要的裝備商也好"},{"start":445.212,"end":463.209,"text":"臺灣後續建如果沒有,他沒有必要冒這個險。臺灣如果內部有分歧,預算有問題,他也沒有必要冒這個險啦吼。所以顧立雄部長已經上來了吼。我現在一定要請教就是,目前預算Handing在那個地方都不審查。對於我們前瞻國造後續建你們有沒有什麼計畫?"},{"start":464.787,"end":466.048,"text":"中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區"},{"start":486.082,"end":509.356,"text":"國軍網路環島的第二路由還有我們一些機密的建案,這個等等如果沒有能夠順利審議的話,就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。顧部長,我現在問的問題就是,現在的真實狀況就是總預算卡在那裡,沒有送進來嘛。你們能不能有前置作業,比方說跟這個廠商說,我們會做,只是預算現在還沒有通過。"},{"start":511.059,"end":531.649,"text":"還是你們會遇到困難,連這個都沒有辦法,變成要等預算明朗化,才能去不管是供應商的穩固,或者我們國內自製的部分的預備作業,你們現在到底有沒有辦法先前置作業先做?國行的預算都一定要尊重大院的一個決議,通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。沒過根本連談都沒辦法談齁?"},{"start":532.811,"end":560.172,"text":"沒過的話當然沒有辦法因為我們行政立法的相互讓我們提出預算那當然還是要大院要通過才可以軍公教人員的調整待遇這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理但是人民這個健康的需求實在一日不可等這種國際的軍購的合作更有國際的信用那程度是更嚴重議員長你要講健康需求像那個抗癌新藥的50億"},{"start":562.145,"end":589.361,"text":"你有沒有想過那慢一個月兩個月對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別那個Pending那個卡在那裡影響大我就要問顧部長我們前建後續建其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙嗎這個預算卡在那裡會不會影響他們的意願因為我們現在就是說明年如果那個原型建的"},{"start":595.092,"end":618.786,"text":"其實20億的潛艦預算佔比不大,可能是一個態度,因為我也贊成SAT水測、航測完整之後我們再來處理後續艦的預算,這個我個人支持,但是我們國家要展現一個態度說,來,我這邊有點像deposit money,就是有點像預訂金,我這20億過,表示我們國家會做這個決心,因為佔整個的比例很低,"},{"start":619.426,"end":633.664,"text":"但連這個都卡到問題的時候那個後續件的那個比如說我們還有很多輸出許可還有很多這個次承包商他作業上他就停下來了他會他如果不過的話他整個就會轉向"},{"start":635.91,"end":656.736,"text":"蘇蘇許可要時間,蘇蘇許可也考量到各國的他們國家的國內政治局勢當局勢變化,今年有40幾個國家改選當他們國家局勢變化,原來有的會不會變沒有了這個是我們現在在擔憂的嘛我另外講一個是我們自己可控的我們明年要配發25000把左右新式步槍,這個T112嘛"},{"start":660.318,"end":669.386,"text":"新式步槍提升步槍兵戰力,預算卡在這裡,我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎?還是要等預算?"},{"start":675.879,"end":692.291,"text":"生殖中心應該還是可以來做啦齁但是問題是這個預算如果沒有通過的話那這個經費沒有辦法撥下去的話那這個生殖中心可能會面你要跳票不是那個是國防部對生殖中心跳票因為這簽了一個訂單嘛兩萬五千把"},{"start":694.96,"end":720.78,"text":"他要預罪製造步槍要時間的要先預購材料那些鋼材啦什麼槍管的材料都要預購的沒有辦法有機會來指引這些東西因為這牽扯到我們的正規我們第一線的主力戰鬥部隊還有後備部隊因為他配發T1122後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新接裝跟下一代的步槍所以這個延宕下去會不會影響到明年我們配發的作業"},{"start":723.068,"end":736.507,"text":"如果沒有辦法如期的在這個會期通過當然會影響因為還有我還要跟委員特別報告因為現在我們有很多這個類似像PDA或者是FMF這些"},{"start":737.168,"end":737.648,"text":"我坦白講"},{"start":758.3,"end":772.394,"text":"PTA是美國總統的特殊撥款權FMF是美國的軍營項目這是三年當他一撥就是300億台幣或者100億台幣然後發現我們台灣的預算連省都不給省"},{"start":773.871,"end":774.231,"text":"國防部長陳大沙倫醫院"},{"start":792.146,"end":815.179,"text":"的計畫但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會一直沒有審下來另外AI園區謝謝院長那個你就任沒有滿月之前你就來這裡選擇AI園區要放在歸人沙倫這個位置那我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目現在大概有四大項一個是AI的物流中心一個是生活資源"},{"start":815.839,"end":816.22,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":834.855,"end":852.747,"text":"國發會什麼時候會通過?現在卡在那裡了。跟委員報告,這個沒有送上來,但是我們在10月7號主動的找各單位。你說沒有送上來,我得到的資訊,我得到你們回報資訊說在你那裡。沒有,我說明一下,我們10月7號找了各單位來開會,然後我們提出了改善建議之後,"},{"start":854.248,"end":878.645,"text":"陳大已經把他的改善建議先送到教育部了我希望要快,因為按照期程明年搞不好要動工是幾乎很難搞不好要搞到後年啊你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的大前年我都不好意思算那個年份了所以我特別拜託國發會主委你也問台南的拜託這個時間要縮短了沒問題,因為我們是主動整合各單位的建"},{"start":878.925,"end":901.636,"text":"回到AI園區就是因為AI園區現在我們AI不管是Database、算力或者是演算法它是一個很大的產業鏈那總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國從40幾名到第6名因為時間的關係我建議院長這邊早期我們在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候行政院有組成一個任務編組"},{"start":902.967,"end":904.068,"text":"我們類似這樣的案子"},{"start":927.347,"end":929.767,"text":"謝謝王定宇委員的質詢謝謝主委長及相關部會首長的備詢報言會現在我們休息10分鐘"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":455,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（10時5分）院長謝謝，麻煩請行政院長卓榮泰卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員定宇：卓院長，辛苦了！政務繁忙，最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告，按照多年來的慣例，業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查，一條、一條審，該減、該刪、該凍就來審查，但是這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後，我在主席臺特別講很遺憾，我們接下來沒有預算可以審。總預算現在被擋在……你也不能說它退回了，它就被擋在陰陽魔界，卡在中間，在程序委員會進退不得大概六、七次了，也不知道未來會怎麼樣。所以本席今天要詢問的是，假設總預算是這樣的狀態，我們未來的政務該怎麼處理？因為國家還是要運作，不管是國防、經濟、交通建設。","目前我們遇到的狀況是，如果總預算持續這個狀態下去，明年新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員定宇：我們以往有新增項目預算，在各部會其實都會做一些預置作業，比方國防部明年要配發兩萬多把新的步槍XT112給我們的單位使用，可是現在總預算前景不明，到底要不要先預劃，預劃完了之後預算還是不明，後續會不會造成影響？我今天主要是針對這些因應作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長，比方軍公教人員明年要調薪3%，因應物價指數，也因應現在整體經濟，我們希望能夠經濟成長共享，讓公教人員也好，甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲。目前為止，因為明年過年還滿快的，1月底就過年了，有關公教人員調薪3%，如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動，院長，你們打算怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難，因為在軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中，中央政府本身122億，要補助給地方90億，但重要的是……"],["王委員定宇：地方90億……"],["卓院長榮泰：要補助給地方90億。"],["王委員定宇：但是地方議會現在在審查預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：地方自己要編的是50億，而這個沒有過，他們不曉得怎麼樣編，這個法源就沒有了。"],["王委員定宇：我今天就是要請問，主計長和我是老朋友了，我從議員時就認識你，我現在就要問這個問題，因為明年度的軍公教調薪是很多項目裡面的一項，我只是用這個當例子，270億當中地方政府要編50億，我為什麼要編50億呢？因為中央補助我90億，這又另外牽涉到財劃法，你把錢都弄掉了，將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了？所以財劃法其實要好好討論，不要這樣急就章，昨天那一幕真的是難看，而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂。我回到我命題本身，中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道，地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算，也在開議會當中，我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道，所以請教主計長或院長，以這個命題來講，軍公教調薪3%，你們現在開始作業了嗎？有沒有辦法開始作業？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個是人總那邊在負責，它會做一個頒布……"],["王委員定宇：錢沒有著落怎麼準備？"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放，作業程序是由人總這邊來說明。"],["王委員定宇：請教人總，你們有沒有預置作業先準備好，如果我們韓國瑜院長協調成功，預算開始去討論、去執行了，我相信這個預算大家都沒有爭議，到時候過年前該調薪的調薪，村里長1.5月、新增的部分該給就給，但因為現在不明，所以就卡在那裡，人事長，你們現在有沒有預置作業？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：跟委員報告，現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後，我們才會進到……"],["王委員定宇：所以你現在沒有作業？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們現在等於就是pending在那裡。"],["王委員定宇：pending在那裡，如果持續這個狀況下去，最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查，或者都不給你審查，這3%要不要調？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：調薪的那3%就不可能分了。"],["王委員定宇：就沒有了嘛？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：嗯！那是增加的。"],["王委員定宇：那是一種狀況，最壞的狀況總預算就卡在那裡，不送進來審查，就算大家明明有共識，對這個沒問題、沒意見，你還是不能作業啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不能動。"],["王委員定宇：因為立法院沒有通過預算，你不能動啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是啊！"],["王委員定宇：另外一個次差的狀況，擋了6次、7次、8次、9次之後，開始審查了，來不來得及過年前給人家？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：現在主要也是要看什麼時候通過，通過後一定還需要作業時間，因為主計總處要有一個作業時間。"],["王委員定宇：這看起來「茫茫渺渺」，我們這邊還有癌症新藥部分，還有好多好多的錢。所以目前軍公教調薪3%，我可以說是pending，就是閒置在那邊無法作業，如果總預算無法獲得審查通過，明年這3%就沒有了，我這樣詮釋對不對？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告，其實這個問題也可以早一點通過，我們就比較有機會在過年前發給所有……"],["王委員定宇：你說這句話就是如果按照程序，其實我們現在應該就在審查總預算了，應該在審查中了！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員定宇：如果比較早通過，按照正常作業，年終獎金也好，調整薪水也好，最好在過年前給人家一個消息，讓人家有一個打算；現在因為延宕，這個作業會慢下來是必然的，它已經必然了，但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話，它就會不見、沒有了，我這樣說沒錯吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是啊！"],["王委員定宇：所以我坦白說，對預算有意見，我們當立委的要審查、要凍結、要刪減，都是立委的權力，但是不審查放在那邊，這比刪除還慘啦！人事長可以先請回。","另外一個案子，像國防目前新增的項目，公開的部分69.5億，但機密的部分我就不講了。在新增的部分，我們看第2頁，這邊就要請教院長了，像潛艦國造後續艦有20億，我們都知道潛艦國造後續艦不是我方自己要造，還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友，冒著被中國經濟制裁，甚至於中國恐嚇他們不可以跟臺灣做生意，這一些技術協助也好，這一些重要的裝備商也好，臺灣後續艦如果沒有，他沒有必要冒這個險；臺灣如果內部有分歧、預算有問題，他也沒必要冒這個險。顧立雄部長已經上來了，我現在一樣請教你，目前預算pending在那個地方，都不審查，對於潛艦國造後續艦，你們有沒有什麼計畫？能不能開始……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，現在不只是潛艦的後續艦，主要還有一些快速布雷艇，還有一個是無人機產業園區的開發。"],["王委員定宇：對啊，中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區。"],["顧部長立雄：當然剛剛委員也提到新式的步槍，還有一些……"],["王委員定宇：還有飛機的防護機堡，我知道項目很多啦！我有列……"],["顧部長立雄：對，國軍網路的環島第二路由，還有我們一些機密的建案等等，如果不能夠順利審議的話，就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。"],["王委員定宇：顧部長，我現在問的問題就是，現在的真實狀況是總預算卡在那裡，沒有送進來，你們能不能有前置作業？比方跟廠商說我們會做，只是預算現在還沒有通過，還是你們會遇到困難，連這個都沒有辦法，變成要等預算明朗化，不管是對供應商的穩固，或者是國內自製部分的預備作業，你們現在到底有沒有辦法先做前置作業？"],["顧部長立雄：國防預算一定都要尊重大院的決議，通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。"],["王委員定宇：所以沒過根本連談都沒辦法談喔？"],["顧部長立雄：沒過當然沒有辦法，因為行政、立法的相互制衡，由我們提出預算，當然還是要經大院通過才可以。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，軍公教人員的調整待遇，這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理，但是人民健康的需求實在一日不可等，這種國際的軍購合作更有國際的信用問題，那個程度是更嚴重的。"],["王委員定宇：院長，你剛才講的健康需求，像抗癌新藥的50億。"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊。"],["王委員定宇：你有沒有想過那個慢一個月、兩個月，對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別，那個pending、卡在那裡影響很大。","我就要問顧部長，我們潛艦後續艦其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙，這個預算卡在那裡，會不會影響他們的意願？"],["顧部長立雄：現在就是說明年如果原型艦的水下測試通過，我們就可以開始支用這些相關的錢。"],["王委員定宇：其實20億的潛艦預算占比不大……"],["顧部長立雄：占比不大，但是……"],["王委員定宇：那是一個態度，我也贊成SAT水測、航測完整之後，我們再來處理後續艦的預算……"],["顧部長立雄：對。"],["王委員定宇：這個我個人支持，但是我們國家要展現一個態度，有點像deposit money，就是有點像預訂金，這20億過，表示我們國家有做這個的決心，因為占整個的比例很低，但連這個都卡到的話……"],["顧部長立雄：因為後續艦的部分，比如我們還有很多輸出許可，還有很多次承包商他們……"],["王委員定宇：在作業上它就停下來了。"],["顧部長立雄：如果不過的話，它整個就會轉向，這樣的話……"],["王委員定宇：我跟你講，輸出許可要時間，輸出許可也考量到各國的國內政治局勢，當局勢變化，像今年有四十幾個國家改選，當他們國家的局勢變化，原來有的會不會變沒有了，這是我們現在擔憂的。我另外講一個是我們自己可控的，我們明年要配發2萬5,000把左右的新式步槍，也就是T112，新式步槍是提升我們步槍兵的戰力，現在預算卡在這裡，我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎？還是要等預算？"],["顧部長立雄：生製中心應該還是可以來做啦，但問題是如果這個預算沒有通過，經費沒有辦法撥下去的話，生製中心可能會面臨要……"],["王委員定宇：跳票，不是，那是國防部對生製中心跳票，因為這牽涉到一個訂單嘛，2萬5,000把，它要預做，製造步槍要時間的，要先預購材料，如鋼材啦、槍管的材料都要預購的。"],["顧部長立雄：對，沒辦法有經費來支應這些東西。"],["王委員定宇：因為這牽涉到我們正規第一線的主力戰鬥部隊，還有後備部隊，因為配發T112，後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新，接裝下一代的步槍，所以如果這個部分延宕下去，會不會影響到明年配發的作業？"],["顧部長立雄：如果沒有辦法如期在這個會期通過，當然會影響啊。我還要跟委員特別報告，因為現在我們有很多類似像PDA或者是FMF這些得到美國……"],["王委員定宇：美國軍援的項目。"],["顧部長立雄：美國也一再地表示關切我們的自我防衛能力跟決心，所以我們的國防預算如果沒有辦法在今年審議通過的話，國際間對我們自我防衛能力的決心是會有所質疑的。"],["王委員定宇：我坦白講，PDA是美國總統的特殊撥款權，FMF是美國的軍援項目，這是送你的，當他一撥，比方300億臺幣或100億臺幣，然後發現我們臺灣的預算連審都不給審，如果是當朋友的，你會怎麼看待這樣的事情？好，國防先到這邊，部長請回。","另外這個題目要請教院長，因為這是很重要的項目，有關成大沙崙這個園區，除了成大在那邊有一個沙崙醫院的計畫，但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會，一直沒有審下來。另外，AI園區的部分，謝謝院長，在你就任還沒有滿月之前，你就宣布AI園區要放在歸仁沙崙這個位置，我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目，現在大概有四大項，一個是AI的物流中心，一個是生活資源，一個是成大醫院沙崙園區加上健康產業園區，還有一個就是生活資源園區。第一個，因為沙崙醫院已經講了很久，但我知道行政作業上還要經過國發會同意，同意完還有細部計畫等等，國發會什麼時候會通過？現在卡在那裡。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，這個沒有送上來，但是我們在10月7號主動找各單位來……"],["王委員定宇：你說沒有送上來，我得到你們回報的資訊是說在你那裡。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒有，我說明一下，我們10月7號找了各單位來開會，然後我們提出了改善建議之後，成大已經把它的改善建議先送到教育部了，目前的進度是這樣。"],["王委員定宇：我希望要快，因為按照期程，明年要動工幾乎很難，搞不好要到後年，你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的？大前年，我都不好意思算那個年份。所以我特別拜託國發會主委，你也是我們臺南的，拜託一下這個時間要縮短。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒問題，因為我們是主動整合各單位的意見。"],["王委員定宇：回到AI園區，因為AI園區牽涉到我們的AI，不管是database、算力或是演算法，它是一個很大的產業鏈，總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國，從四十幾名到第六名。","因為時間的關係，我建議院長這邊，早期我們那邊在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候，行政院有組成一個任務編組──類似Tiger Team，這個任務編組在行政院有一個召集人，而在我們地方上，比方說地方的立委、成大，大家都參加這個team，就土地的運用以及發展的項目，結合各種力量、整合腳步來同步進行，才不會一個單位會一個單位、再會一個單位，兩、三年就過了，我不知道院長可不可以這樣處理？"],["卓院長榮泰：針對類似這樣的案子，國發會、國科會甚至包括經濟部，我們都有定期討論類似的案子，我們會把它成為常軌性的……"],["王委員定宇：對，常態性的，比如這邊AI發展的任務編組或者小組，這樣才能夠統籌、減少行政程序上的浪費，這要拜託院長，謝謝！"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們會密集、常態性的來討論，謝謝。"],["王委員定宇：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王定宇委員的質詢、謝謝院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在我們休息10分鐘，休息之後繼續進行質詢，現在休息。","休息（10時21分）","繼續開會（10時31分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}}