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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:20,712 --> 00:00:20,992\n徐委員好\n\n2\n00:00:34,051 --> 00:00:59,425\n主委院長好本席今天有五個面向想要來向您提出質詢首先第一個就是我們今天審查的是114年度的總預算以及前瞻基礎建設的特別預算那我們發現呢我們的所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻為什麼這樣講呢因為這個不前瞻\n\n3\n00:01:03,925 --> 00:01:25,074\n就是首先先談基礎建設很多基礎建設院長覺得只有蓋個管設蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎我沒有要請您回答我請您思考那有很多在所謂的前瞻其實呢我們在\n\n4\n00:01:27,082 --> 00:01:48,374\n前瞻這個預算書裡面看到很多科技相關的我們不一定是硬體其實有很多的軟體我們的軟實力真的要打基礎我們應該要朝這個方向所以我們看到預算書裡面特別有關我們這個產業的部分大概把焦點放在半導體的製造技術\n\n5\n00:01:50,535 --> 00:02:12,685\n可是跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差所以國際對我們台灣科技產業界對台灣的印象就是硬體很強可是軟體不行所以我們既然是前瞻基礎建設我們就應該要利用我們台灣硬體製造的產業優勢把我們的弱項就是這個軟體的產業能夠拉上來\n\n6\n00:02:17,327 --> 00:02:35,817\n本席強烈的建議目前熱門的像人工智慧機器的訓練模型還有各種AI應用的開發以及國外現在積極在佈局的量子計算領域等等這些領域其實不是這一兩年才出現的\n\n7\n00:02:36,457 --> 00:02:36,557\n徐欣瑩\n\n8\n00:03:06,129 --> 00:03:34,689\n委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變所以2017年的第一期開始他真的就叫基礎建設所以他到現在第5期成效他沒有打基礎啊有些這些軌道這些水工程水工程、軌道這些都是基礎建設那接著這個特別預算不特別啊這些特別預算其實過去也引起很多的質疑\n\n9\n00:03:35,981 --> 00:03:38,562\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n\n10\n00:04:00,230 --> 00:04:00,850\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n11\n00:04:19,465 --> 00:04:21,047\n我們希望能夠尊重整個的培政紀律還有我們預算的體制\n\n12\n00:04:40,206 --> 00:04:55,776\n第二點本席想要就我們國營事業績效不章特別提出來我們明年度的政府財政收入非常的漂亮114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%\n\n13\n00:04:58,938 --> 00:05:18,910\n這個是因為現在我們國際局勢的情況變好以及全民的努力累積出來的結果這個非常值得高興但是呢本期要特別提出來在整個的總預算裡面我們的國營企業收入還有財產收入這兩類呢都比前一年分別減少了10.8%還有5.9%\n\n14\n00:05:21,872 --> 00:05:47,373\n所以院長這個數字就表示呢人民來當老闆會賺錢但是政府當老闆就虧錢這個問題呢我們特別看到這個國營事業去年台電就虧損了1992億最為嚴重而虧損的前五名裡面呢經濟部就佔了三個台電、中油還有台水\n\n15\n00:05:48,055 --> 00:06:15,236\n所以我們大家也都覺得臺電、中油、臺水不能倒不能倒所以本席希望呢院長一定要好好的帶領這個執政的團隊大家一起充電加油多喝水能不能讓國營事業轉虧為盈這個目標院長您有把這個設定為目標嗎我們也一直希望把國營事業\n\n16\n00:06:16,434 --> 00:06:17,334\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n17\n00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,885\n本席接著講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。那這個錯誤的政策過去在能源配比還有總諮詢本席提過了。\n\n18\n00:06:50,188 --> 00:07:07,598\n我們用非常昂貴的再生能源我們買的比人家產生的還要便宜我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高當然我們都知道這已經簽約了簽約20年但是\n\n19\n00:07:11,900 --> 00:07:32,252\n我們應該可以從其他方面還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤那最特別的就是我們有比較接近的能源也比較便宜的之前院長有說可以考慮那現在你們對未來有沒有考慮比較接近的能源而且是比較低廉的價格的\n\n20\n00:07:32,947 --> 00:07:33,968\n國營企業另一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案。112年宣判的中油\n\n21\n00:08:02,452 --> 00:08:22,169\n中油煉製事業部的採購弊案。113年破獲的臺電的大林電廠採購弊案。近期的臺鹽綠能公司弊案。還有臺電的綠能弊案等等。不生沒舉。所以民進黨執政讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐劃上等號。但是\n\n22\n00:08:23,410 --> 00:08:36,661\n在總統上任後可不可以還有卓院長你們到底有沒有想給人民一個耳目一新的感覺有沒有想要扭轉這一個印象台言綠能的問題我們非常的痛心\n\n23\n00:08:37,418 --> 00:08:39,659\n徐欣瑩徐縣長請你救我的問題回來因為我時間有限徐欣瑩徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長\n\n24\n00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,327\n對整個團隊有沒有喊話大家的操守問題這方面\n\n25\n00:09:18,370 --> 00:09:22,934\n第三點本席要特別提到我們的教育的經費請院長看一下台灣在1990年代我們每年的教育經費佔GDP的比率都超過6%\n\n26\n00:09:41,232 --> 00:09:42,132\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n\n27\n00:09:55,543 --> 00:10:16,934\n但是到了蔡政府整個教育經費佔GDP的比就剩4點多那我們又特別的也看到我們明年度明年度我們稍微預測GDP當然我們只能預測2023年就今年我們教育經費只佔了整個GDP的比率是4.26%那我們預測明年後年\n\n28\n00:10:21,476 --> 00:10:23,578\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n\n29\n00:10:41,345 --> 00:10:42,646\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間\n\n30\n00:11:09,346 --> 00:11:09,887\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n\n31\n00:11:21,989 --> 00:11:47,557\n我們必須非常重視教育但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅的成長所以比例上減少了百分之零點多但是就數字上、金額上是增加很多的比如我們113年我們的教育金會編的有7700億那114年我們會到達8300億我們特別看了如果整個成長世界各國都一起成長所以我們還有一張表就是\n\n32\n00:11:48,456 --> 00:11:48,696\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n33\n00:12:05,427 --> 00:12:34,493\n而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠那邊也喊不夠所以是不是可以就整體來說為了我們的孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子更何況我們現在不窮我們稅收首次突破3兆1500億所以我們的教育經費本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命請問院長我們可不可以增加1%\n\n34\n00:12:36,304 --> 00:13:02,513\n增加的幅度會有多少我想應該要衡量未來整個需要那現在我們不僅在對0到6歲乃至於高職大學我們都有更多的新的機制之外我們也對整個學校老舊教室甚至廁所的改建我們都編了幾百億的預算這些我們知道都在那個4點多趴裡面但是還是很不足所以我們希望能夠再增加一趴\n\n35\n00:13:03,033 --> 00:13:03,934\n再來本席想要就這個移轉性的支付,院長你應該了解\n\n36\n00:13:24,073 --> 00:13:46,163\n整個移轉性的支付它的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義所以移轉性的支付越高越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重那我們看到我們這個預算裡面我們移轉性的支付逐年上漲院長您知道這個情況嗎\n\n37\n00:13:49,158 --> 00:14:12,119\n一轉性的支付。對。我們逐年上漲。從105年的5000多億到現在7000多億。明年的預算是7600多億。那再來其中最主要、最大比例的就是社福支出。那社福支出它就表示\n\n38\n00:14:12,699 --> 00:14:33,613\n你社福支出持續上升表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義那這也表示我們社會的有一些問題依然嚴重例如貧富的差距例如很多的這個弱勢團體所以還有高齡化這個老齡化高齡化的來臨\n\n39\n00:14:34,634 --> 00:14:46,580\n所以這些問題我們需要的是解決方案所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿我不知道我們的行政院團隊我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題然後如何來解決\n\n40\n00:14:49,923 --> 00:14:50,383\n委員長本席的時間有限\n\n41\n00:15:05,333 --> 00:15:33,912\n本席在這裡提供一個想法美國有勞動所得稅務的優惠對於特定對象像我們台灣如果一些中低收入戶或者是比較弱勢的他如果是全職的工作者可不可以讓他能夠低於能夠進行一種補貼跟退稅然後讓他的薪資達到一定水平之後這個補貼在逐漸下降也就是你要激勵他\n\n42\n00:15:35,213 --> 00:15:35,574\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n20712\t20992\t徐委員好\n34051\t59425\t主委院長好本席今天有五個面向想要來向您提出質詢首先第一個就是我們今天審查的是114年度的總預算以及前瞻基礎建設的特別預算那我們發現呢我們的所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻為什麼這樣講呢因為這個不前瞻\n63925\t85074\t就是首先先談基礎建設很多基礎建設院長覺得只有蓋個管設蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎我沒有要請您回答我請您思考那有很多在所謂的前瞻其實呢我們在\n87082\t108374\t前瞻這個預算書裡面看到很多科技相關的我們不一定是硬體其實有很多的軟體我們的軟實力真的要打基礎我們應該要朝這個方向所以我們看到預算書裡面特別有關我們這個產業的部分大概把焦點放在半導體的製造技術\n110535\t132685\t可是跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差所以國際對我們台灣科技產業界對台灣的印象就是硬體很強可是軟體不行所以我們既然是前瞻基礎建設我們就應該要利用我們台灣硬體製造的產業優勢把我們的弱項就是這個軟體的產業能夠拉上來\n137327\t155817\t本席強烈的建議目前熱門的像人工智慧機器的訓練模型還有各種AI應用的開發以及國外現在積極在佈局的量子計算領域等等這些領域其實不是這一兩年才出現的\n156457\t156557\t徐欣瑩\n186129\t214689\t委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變所以2017年的第一期開始他真的就叫基礎建設所以他到現在第5期成效他沒有打基礎啊有些這些軌道這些水工程水工程、軌道這些都是基礎建設那接著這個特別預算不特別啊這些特別預算其實過去也引起很多的質疑\n215981\t218562\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n240230\t240850\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n259465\t261047\t我們希望能夠尊重整個的培政紀律還有我們預算的體制\n280206\t295776\t第二點本席想要就我們國營事業績效不章特別提出來我們明年度的政府財政收入非常的漂亮114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%\n298938\t318910\t這個是因為現在我們國際局勢的情況變好以及全民的努力累積出來的結果這個非常值得高興但是呢本期要特別提出來在整個的總預算裡面我們的國營企業收入還有財產收入這兩類呢都比前一年分別減少了10.8%還有5.9%\n321872\t347373\t所以院長這個數字就表示呢人民來當老闆會賺錢但是政府當老闆就虧錢這個問題呢我們特別看到這個國營事業去年台電就虧損了1992億最為嚴重而虧損的前五名裡面呢經濟部就佔了三個台電、中油還有台水\n348055\t375236\t所以我們大家也都覺得臺電、中油、臺水不能倒不能倒所以本席希望呢院長一定要好好的帶領這個執政的團隊大家一起充電加油多喝水能不能讓國營事業轉虧為盈這個目標院長您有把這個設定為目標嗎我們也一直希望把國營事業\n376434\t377334\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n397120\t401885\t本席接著講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。那這個錯誤的政策過去在能源配比還有總諮詢本席提過了。\n410188\t427598\t我們用非常昂貴的再生能源我們買的比人家產生的還要便宜我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高當然我們都知道這已經簽約了簽約20年但是\n431900\t452252\t我們應該可以從其他方面還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤那最特別的就是我們有比較接近的能源也比較便宜的之前院長有說可以考慮那現在你們對未來有沒有考慮比較接近的能源而且是比較低廉的價格的\n452947\t453968\t國營企業另一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案。112年宣判的中油\n482452\t502169\t中油煉製事業部的採購弊案。113年破獲的臺電的大林電廠採購弊案。近期的臺鹽綠能公司弊案。還有臺電的綠能弊案等等。不生沒舉。所以民進黨執政讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐劃上等號。但是\n503410\t516661\t在總統上任後可不可以還有卓院長你們到底有沒有想給人民一個耳目一新的感覺有沒有想要扭轉這一個印象台言綠能的問題我們非常的痛心\n517418\t519659\t徐欣瑩徐縣長請你救我的問題回來因為我時間有限徐欣瑩徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長\n546600\t550327\t對整個團隊有沒有喊話大家的操守問題這方面\n558370\t562934\t第三點本席要特別提到我們的教育的經費請院長看一下台灣在1990年代我們每年的教育經費佔GDP的比率都超過6%\n581232\t582132\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n595543\t616934\t但是到了蔡政府整個教育經費佔GDP的比就剩4點多那我們又特別的也看到我們明年度明年度我們稍微預測GDP當然我們只能預測2023年就今年我們教育經費只佔了整個GDP的比率是4.26%那我們預測明年後年\n621476\t623578\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n641345\t642646\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間\n669346\t669887\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n681989\t707557\t我們必須非常重視教育但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅的成長所以比例上減少了百分之零點多但是就數字上、金額上是增加很多的比如我們113年我們的教育金會編的有7700億那114年我們會到達8300億我們特別看了如果整個成長世界各國都一起成長所以我們還有一張表就是\n708456\t708696\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n725427\t754493\t而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠那邊也喊不夠所以是不是可以就整體來說為了我們的孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子更何況我們現在不窮我們稅收首次突破3兆1500億所以我們的教育經費本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命請問院長我們可不可以增加1%\n756304\t782513\t增加的幅度會有多少我想應該要衡量未來整個需要那現在我們不僅在對0到6歲乃至於高職大學我們都有更多的新的機制之外我們也對整個學校老舊教室甚至廁所的改建我們都編了幾百億的預算這些我們知道都在那個4點多趴裡面但是還是很不足所以我們希望能夠再增加一趴\n783033\t783934\t再來本席想要就這個移轉性的支付,院長你應該了解\n804073\t826163\t整個移轉性的支付它的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義所以移轉性的支付越高越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重那我們看到我們這個預算裡面我們移轉性的支付逐年上漲院長您知道這個情況嗎\n829158\t852119\t一轉性的支付。對。我們逐年上漲。從105年的5000多億到現在7000多億。明年的預算是7600多億。那再來其中最主要、最大比例的就是社福支出。那社福支出它就表示\n852699\t873613\t你社福支出持續上升表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義那這也表示我們社會的有一些問題依然嚴重例如貧富的差距例如很多的這個弱勢團體所以還有高齡化這個老齡化高齡化的來臨\n874634\t886580\t所以這些問題我們需要的是解決方案所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿我不知道我們的行政院團隊我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題然後如何來解決\n889923\t890383\t委員長本席的時間有限\n905333\t933912\t本席在這裡提供一個想法美國有勞動所得稅務的優惠對於特定對象像我們台灣如果一些中低收入戶或者是比較弱勢的他如果是全職的工作者可不可以讓他能夠低於能夠進行一種補貼跟退稅然後讓他的薪資達到一定水平之後這個補貼在逐漸下降也就是你要激勵他\n935213\t935574\t主席\n","txt":"徐委員好\n主委院長好本席今天有五個面向想要來向您提出質詢首先第一個就是我們今天審查的是114年度的總預算以及前瞻基礎建設的特別預算那我們發現呢我們的所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻為什麼這樣講呢因為這個不前瞻\n就是首先先談基礎建設很多基礎建設院長覺得只有蓋個管設蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎我沒有要請您回答我請您思考那有很多在所謂的前瞻其實呢我們在\n前瞻這個預算書裡面看到很多科技相關的我們不一定是硬體其實有很多的軟體我們的軟實力真的要打基礎我們應該要朝這個方向所以我們看到預算書裡面特別有關我們這個產業的部分大概把焦點放在半導體的製造技術\n可是跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差所以國際對我們台灣科技產業界對台灣的印象就是硬體很強可是軟體不行所以我們既然是前瞻基礎建設我們就應該要利用我們台灣硬體製造的產業優勢把我們的弱項就是這個軟體的產業能夠拉上來\n本席強烈的建議目前熱門的像人工智慧機器的訓練模型還有各種AI應用的開發以及國外現在積極在佈局的量子計算領域等等這些領域其實不是這一兩年才出現的\n徐欣瑩\n委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變所以2017年的第一期開始他真的就叫基礎建設所以他到現在第5期成效他沒有打基礎啊有些這些軌道這些水工程水工程、軌道這些都是基礎建設那接著這個特別預算不特別啊這些特別預算其實過去也引起很多的質疑\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n我們希望能夠尊重整個的培政紀律還有我們預算的體制\n第二點本席想要就我們國營事業績效不章特別提出來我們明年度的政府財政收入非常的漂亮114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%\n這個是因為現在我們國際局勢的情況變好以及全民的努力累積出來的結果這個非常值得高興但是呢本期要特別提出來在整個的總預算裡面我們的國營企業收入還有財產收入這兩類呢都比前一年分別減少了10.8%還有5.9%\n所以院長這個數字就表示呢人民來當老闆會賺錢但是政府當老闆就虧錢這個問題呢我們特別看到這個國營事業去年台電就虧損了1992億最為嚴重而虧損的前五名裡面呢經濟部就佔了三個台電、中油還有台水\n所以我們大家也都覺得臺電、中油、臺水不能倒不能倒所以本席希望呢院長一定要好好的帶領這個執政的團隊大家一起充電加油多喝水能不能讓國營事業轉虧為盈這個目標院長您有把這個設定為目標嗎我們也一直希望把國營事業\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n本席接著講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。那這個錯誤的政策過去在能源配比還有總諮詢本席提過了。\n我們用非常昂貴的再生能源我們買的比人家產生的還要便宜我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高當然我們都知道這已經簽約了簽約20年但是\n我們應該可以從其他方面還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤那最特別的就是我們有比較接近的能源也比較便宜的之前院長有說可以考慮那現在你們對未來有沒有考慮比較接近的能源而且是比較低廉的價格的\n國營企業另一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案。112年宣判的中油\n中油煉製事業部的採購弊案。113年破獲的臺電的大林電廠採購弊案。近期的臺鹽綠能公司弊案。還有臺電的綠能弊案等等。不生沒舉。所以民進黨執政讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐劃上等號。但是\n在總統上任後可不可以還有卓院長你們到底有沒有想給人民一個耳目一新的感覺有沒有想要扭轉這一個印象台言綠能的問題我們非常的痛心\n徐欣瑩徐縣長請你救我的問題回來因為我時間有限徐欣瑩徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長\n對整個團隊有沒有喊話大家的操守問題這方面\n第三點本席要特別提到我們的教育的經費請院長看一下台灣在1990年代我們每年的教育經費佔GDP的比率都超過6%\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n但是到了蔡政府整個教育經費佔GDP的比就剩4點多那我們又特別的也看到我們明年度明年度我們稍微預測GDP當然我們只能預測2023年就今年我們教育經費只佔了整個GDP的比率是4.26%那我們預測明年後年\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n我們必須非常重視教育但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅的成長所以比例上減少了百分之零點多但是就數字上、金額上是增加很多的比如我們113年我們的教育金會編的有7700億那114年我們會到達8300億我們特別看了如果整個成長世界各國都一起成長所以我們還有一張表就是\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠那邊也喊不夠所以是不是可以就整體來說為了我們的孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子更何況我們現在不窮我們稅收首次突破3兆1500億所以我們的教育經費本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命請問院長我們可不可以增加1%\n增加的幅度會有多少我想應該要衡量未來整個需要那現在我們不僅在對0到6歲乃至於高職大學我們都有更多的新的機制之外我們也對整個學校老舊教室甚至廁所的改建我們都編了幾百億的預算這些我們知道都在那個4點多趴裡面但是還是很不足所以我們希望能夠再增加一趴\n再來本席想要就這個移轉性的支付,院長你應該了解\n整個移轉性的支付它的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義所以移轉性的支付越高越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重那我們看到我們這個預算裡面我們移轉性的支付逐年上漲院長您知道這個情況嗎\n一轉性的支付。對。我們逐年上漲。從105年的5000多億到現在7000多億。明年的預算是7600多億。那再來其中最主要、最大比例的就是社福支出。那社福支出它就表示\n你社福支出持續上升表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義那這也表示我們社會的有一些問題依然嚴重例如貧富的差距例如很多的這個弱勢團體所以還有高齡化這個老齡化高齡化的來臨\n所以這些問題我們需要的是解決方案所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿我不知道我們的行政院團隊我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題然後如何來解決\n委員長本席的時間有限\n本席在這裡提供一個想法美國有勞動所得稅務的優惠對於特定對象像我們台灣如果一些中低收入戶或者是比較弱勢的他如果是全職的工作者可不可以讓他能夠低於能夠進行一種補貼跟退稅然後讓他的薪資達到一定水平之後這個補貼在逐漸下降也就是你要激勵他\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:20.712 --> 00:20.992\n徐委員好\n\n00:34.051 --> 00:59.425\n主委院長好本席今天有五個面向想要來向您提出質詢首先第一個就是我們今天審查的是114年度的總預算以及前瞻基礎建設的特別預算那我們發現呢我們的所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻為什麼這樣講呢因為這個不前瞻\n\n01:03.925 --> 01:25.074\n就是首先先談基礎建設很多基礎建設院長覺得只有蓋個管設蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎我沒有要請您回答我請您思考那有很多在所謂的前瞻其實呢我們在\n\n01:27.082 --> 01:48.374\n前瞻這個預算書裡面看到很多科技相關的我們不一定是硬體其實有很多的軟體我們的軟實力真的要打基礎我們應該要朝這個方向所以我們看到預算書裡面特別有關我們這個產業的部分大概把焦點放在半導體的製造技術\n\n01:50.535 --> 02:12.685\n可是跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差所以國際對我們台灣科技產業界對台灣的印象就是硬體很強可是軟體不行所以我們既然是前瞻基礎建設我們就應該要利用我們台灣硬體製造的產業優勢把我們的弱項就是這個軟體的產業能夠拉上來\n\n02:17.327 --> 02:35.817\n本席強烈的建議目前熱門的像人工智慧機器的訓練模型還有各種AI應用的開發以及國外現在積極在佈局的量子計算領域等等這些領域其實不是這一兩年才出現的\n\n02:36.457 --> 02:36.557\n徐欣瑩\n\n03:06.129 --> 03:34.689\n委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變所以2017年的第一期開始他真的就叫基礎建設所以他到現在第5期成效他沒有打基礎啊有些這些軌道這些水工程水工程、軌道這些都是基礎建設那接著這個特別預算不特別啊這些特別預算其實過去也引起很多的質疑\n\n03:35.981 --> 03:38.562\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n\n04:00.230 --> 04:00.850\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n04:19.465 --> 04:21.047\n我們希望能夠尊重整個的培政紀律還有我們預算的體制\n\n04:40.206 --> 04:55.776\n第二點本席想要就我們國營事業績效不章特別提出來我們明年度的政府財政收入非常的漂亮114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%\n\n04:58.938 --> 05:18.910\n這個是因為現在我們國際局勢的情況變好以及全民的努力累積出來的結果這個非常值得高興但是呢本期要特別提出來在整個的總預算裡面我們的國營企業收入還有財產收入這兩類呢都比前一年分別減少了10.8%還有5.9%\n\n05:21.872 --> 05:47.373\n所以院長這個數字就表示呢人民來當老闆會賺錢但是政府當老闆就虧錢這個問題呢我們特別看到這個國營事業去年台電就虧損了1992億最為嚴重而虧損的前五名裡面呢經濟部就佔了三個台電、中油還有台水\n\n05:48.055 --> 06:15.236\n所以我們大家也都覺得臺電、中油、臺水不能倒不能倒所以本席希望呢院長一定要好好的帶領這個執政的團隊大家一起充電加油多喝水能不能讓國營事業轉虧為盈這個目標院長您有把這個設定為目標嗎我們也一直希望把國營事業\n\n06:16.434 --> 06:17.334\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n06:37.120 --> 06:41.885\n本席接著講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。那這個錯誤的政策過去在能源配比還有總諮詢本席提過了。\n\n06:50.188 --> 07:07.598\n我們用非常昂貴的再生能源我們買的比人家產生的還要便宜我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高當然我們都知道這已經簽約了簽約20年但是\n\n07:11.900 --> 07:32.252\n我們應該可以從其他方面還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤那最特別的就是我們有比較接近的能源也比較便宜的之前院長有說可以考慮那現在你們對未來有沒有考慮比較接近的能源而且是比較低廉的價格的\n\n07:32.947 --> 07:33.968\n國營企業另一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案。112年宣判的中油\n\n08:02.452 --> 08:22.169\n中油煉製事業部的採購弊案。113年破獲的臺電的大林電廠採購弊案。近期的臺鹽綠能公司弊案。還有臺電的綠能弊案等等。不生沒舉。所以民進黨執政讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐劃上等號。但是\n\n08:23.410 --> 08:36.661\n在總統上任後可不可以還有卓院長你們到底有沒有想給人民一個耳目一新的感覺有沒有想要扭轉這一個印象台言綠能的問題我們非常的痛心\n\n08:37.418 --> 08:39.659\n徐欣瑩徐縣長請你救我的問題回來因為我時間有限徐欣瑩徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長\n\n09:06.600 --> 09:10.327\n對整個團隊有沒有喊話大家的操守問題這方面\n\n09:18.370 --> 09:22.934\n第三點本席要特別提到我們的教育的經費請院長看一下台灣在1990年代我們每年的教育經費佔GDP的比率都超過6%\n\n09:41.232 --> 09:42.132\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n\n09:55.543 --> 10:16.934\n但是到了蔡政府整個教育經費佔GDP的比就剩4點多那我們又特別的也看到我們明年度明年度我們稍微預測GDP當然我們只能預測2023年就今年我們教育經費只佔了整個GDP的比率是4.26%那我們預測明年後年\n\n10:21.476 --> 10:23.578\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n\n10:41.345 --> 10:42.646\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間\n\n11:09.346 --> 11:09.887\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩\n\n11:21.989 --> 11:47.557\n我們必須非常重視教育但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅的成長所以比例上減少了百分之零點多但是就數字上、金額上是增加很多的比如我們113年我們的教育金會編的有7700億那114年我們會到達8300億我們特別看了如果整個成長世界各國都一起成長所以我們還有一張表就是\n\n11:48.456 --> 11:48.696\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n12:05.427 --> 12:34.493\n而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠那邊也喊不夠所以是不是可以就整體來說為了我們的孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子更何況我們現在不窮我們稅收首次突破3兆1500億所以我們的教育經費本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命請問院長我們可不可以增加1%\n\n12:36.304 --> 13:02.513\n增加的幅度會有多少我想應該要衡量未來整個需要那現在我們不僅在對0到6歲乃至於高職大學我們都有更多的新的機制之外我們也對整個學校老舊教室甚至廁所的改建我們都編了幾百億的預算這些我們知道都在那個4點多趴裡面但是還是很不足所以我們希望能夠再增加一趴\n\n13:03.033 --> 13:03.934\n再來本席想要就這個移轉性的支付,院長你應該了解\n\n13:24.073 --> 13:46.163\n整個移轉性的支付它的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義所以移轉性的支付越高越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重那我們看到我們這個預算裡面我們移轉性的支付逐年上漲院長您知道這個情況嗎\n\n13:49.158 --> 14:12.119\n一轉性的支付。對。我們逐年上漲。從105年的5000多億到現在7000多億。明年的預算是7600多億。那再來其中最主要、最大比例的就是社福支出。那社福支出它就表示\n\n14:12.699 --> 14:33.613\n你社福支出持續上升表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義那這也表示我們社會的有一些問題依然嚴重例如貧富的差距例如很多的這個弱勢團體所以還有高齡化這個老齡化高齡化的來臨\n\n14:34.634 --> 14:46.580\n所以這些問題我們需要的是解決方案所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿我不知道我們的行政院團隊我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題然後如何來解決\n\n14:49.923 --> 14:50.383\n委員長本席的時間有限\n\n15:05.333 --> 15:33.912\n本席在這裡提供一個想法美國有勞動所得稅務的優惠對於特定對象像我們台灣如果一些中低收入戶或者是比較弱勢的他如果是全職的工作者可不可以讓他能夠低於能夠進行一種補貼跟退稅然後讓他的薪資達到一定水平之後這個補貼在逐漸下降也就是你要激勵他\n\n15:35.213 --> 15:35.574\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":20.712,"end":20.992,"text":"徐委員好"},{"start":34.051,"end":59.425,"text":"主委院長好本席今天有五個面向想要來向您提出質詢首先第一個就是我們今天審查的是114年度的總預算以及前瞻基礎建設的特別預算那我們發現呢我們的所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻為什麼這樣講呢因為這個不前瞻"},{"start":63.925,"end":85.074,"text":"就是首先先談基礎建設很多基礎建設院長覺得只有蓋個管設蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎我沒有要請您回答我請您思考那有很多在所謂的前瞻其實呢我們在"},{"start":87.082,"end":108.374,"text":"前瞻這個預算書裡面看到很多科技相關的我們不一定是硬體其實有很多的軟體我們的軟實力真的要打基礎我們應該要朝這個方向所以我們看到預算書裡面特別有關我們這個產業的部分大概把焦點放在半導體的製造技術"},{"start":110.535,"end":132.685,"text":"可是跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差所以國際對我們台灣科技產業界對台灣的印象就是硬體很強可是軟體不行所以我們既然是前瞻基礎建設我們就應該要利用我們台灣硬體製造的產業優勢把我們的弱項就是這個軟體的產業能夠拉上來"},{"start":137.327,"end":155.817,"text":"本席強烈的建議目前熱門的像人工智慧機器的訓練模型還有各種AI應用的開發以及國外現在積極在佈局的量子計算領域等等這些領域其實不是這一兩年才出現的"},{"start":156.457,"end":156.557,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":186.129,"end":214.689,"text":"委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變所以2017年的第一期開始他真的就叫基礎建設所以他到現在第5期成效他沒有打基礎啊有些這些軌道這些水工程水工程、軌道這些都是基礎建設那接著這個特別預算不特別啊這些特別預算其實過去也引起很多的質疑"},{"start":215.981,"end":218.562,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩"},{"start":240.23,"end":240.85,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":259.465,"end":261.047,"text":"我們希望能夠尊重整個的培政紀律還有我們預算的體制"},{"start":280.206,"end":295.776,"text":"第二點本席想要就我們國營事業績效不章特別提出來我們明年度的政府財政收入非常的漂亮114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%"},{"start":298.938,"end":318.91,"text":"這個是因為現在我們國際局勢的情況變好以及全民的努力累積出來的結果這個非常值得高興但是呢本期要特別提出來在整個的總預算裡面我們的國營企業收入還有財產收入這兩類呢都比前一年分別減少了10.8%還有5.9%"},{"start":321.872,"end":347.373,"text":"所以院長這個數字就表示呢人民來當老闆會賺錢但是政府當老闆就虧錢這個問題呢我們特別看到這個國營事業去年台電就虧損了1992億最為嚴重而虧損的前五名裡面呢經濟部就佔了三個台電、中油還有台水"},{"start":348.055,"end":375.236,"text":"所以我們大家也都覺得臺電、中油、臺水不能倒不能倒所以本席希望呢院長一定要好好的帶領這個執政的團隊大家一起充電加油多喝水能不能讓國營事業轉虧為盈這個目標院長您有把這個設定為目標嗎我們也一直希望把國營事業"},{"start":376.434,"end":377.334,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":397.12,"end":401.885,"text":"本席接著講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。那這個錯誤的政策過去在能源配比還有總諮詢本席提過了。"},{"start":410.188,"end":427.598,"text":"我們用非常昂貴的再生能源我們買的比人家產生的還要便宜我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高當然我們都知道這已經簽約了簽約20年但是"},{"start":431.9,"end":452.252,"text":"我們應該可以從其他方面還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤那最特別的就是我們有比較接近的能源也比較便宜的之前院長有說可以考慮那現在你們對未來有沒有考慮比較接近的能源而且是比較低廉的價格的"},{"start":452.947,"end":453.968,"text":"國營企業另一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案。112年宣判的中油"},{"start":482.452,"end":502.169,"text":"中油煉製事業部的採購弊案。113年破獲的臺電的大林電廠採購弊案。近期的臺鹽綠能公司弊案。還有臺電的綠能弊案等等。不生沒舉。所以民進黨執政讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐劃上等號。但是"},{"start":503.41,"end":516.661,"text":"在總統上任後可不可以還有卓院長你們到底有沒有想給人民一個耳目一新的感覺有沒有想要扭轉這一個印象台言綠能的問題我們非常的痛心"},{"start":517.418,"end":519.659,"text":"徐欣瑩徐縣長請你救我的問題回來因為我時間有限徐欣瑩徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長"},{"start":546.6,"end":550.327,"text":"對整個團隊有沒有喊話大家的操守問題這方面"},{"start":558.37,"end":562.934,"text":"第三點本席要特別提到我們的教育的經費請院長看一下台灣在1990年代我們每年的教育經費佔GDP的比率都超過6%"},{"start":581.232,"end":582.132,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩"},{"start":595.543,"end":616.934,"text":"但是到了蔡政府整個教育經費佔GDP的比就剩4點多那我們又特別的也看到我們明年度明年度我們稍微預測GDP當然我們只能預測2023年就今年我們教育經費只佔了整個GDP的比率是4.26%那我們預測明年後年"},{"start":621.476,"end":623.578,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩"},{"start":641.345,"end":642.646,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":669.346,"end":669.887,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩"},{"start":681.989,"end":707.557,"text":"我們必須非常重視教育但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅的成長所以比例上減少了百分之零點多但是就數字上、金額上是增加很多的比如我們113年我們的教育金會編的有7700億那114年我們會到達8300億我們特別看了如果整個成長世界各國都一起成長所以我們還有一張表就是"},{"start":708.456,"end":708.696,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":725.427,"end":754.493,"text":"而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠那邊也喊不夠所以是不是可以就整體來說為了我們的孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子更何況我們現在不窮我們稅收首次突破3兆1500億所以我們的教育經費本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命請問院長我們可不可以增加1%"},{"start":756.304,"end":782.513,"text":"增加的幅度會有多少我想應該要衡量未來整個需要那現在我們不僅在對0到6歲乃至於高職大學我們都有更多的新的機制之外我們也對整個學校老舊教室甚至廁所的改建我們都編了幾百億的預算這些我們知道都在那個4點多趴裡面但是還是很不足所以我們希望能夠再增加一趴"},{"start":783.033,"end":783.934,"text":"再來本席想要就這個移轉性的支付,院長你應該了解"},{"start":804.073,"end":826.163,"text":"整個移轉性的支付它的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義所以移轉性的支付越高越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重那我們看到我們這個預算裡面我們移轉性的支付逐年上漲院長您知道這個情況嗎"},{"start":829.158,"end":852.119,"text":"一轉性的支付。對。我們逐年上漲。從105年的5000多億到現在7000多億。明年的預算是7600多億。那再來其中最主要、最大比例的就是社福支出。那社福支出它就表示"},{"start":852.699,"end":873.613,"text":"你社福支出持續上升表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義那這也表示我們社會的有一些問題依然嚴重例如貧富的差距例如很多的這個弱勢團體所以還有高齡化這個老齡化高齡化的來臨"},{"start":874.634,"end":886.58,"text":"所以這些問題我們需要的是解決方案所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿我不知道我們的行政院團隊我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題然後如何來解決"},{"start":889.923,"end":890.383,"text":"委員長本席的時間有限"},{"start":905.333,"end":933.912,"text":"本席在這裡提供一個想法美國有勞動所得稅務的優惠對於特定對象像我們台灣如果一些中低收入戶或者是比較弱勢的他如果是全職的工作者可不可以讓他能夠低於能夠進行一種補貼跟退稅然後讓他的薪資達到一定水平之後這個補貼在逐漸下降也就是你要激勵他"},{"start":935.213,"end":935.574,"text":"主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1102,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（14時47分）謝謝主席，本席請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：卓院長好，本席今天有五個面向要向您提出質詢。首先第一個，就是我們今天審查的114年度總預算案，以及前瞻基礎建設特別預算，但是我們發現所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻，為什麼這樣講呢？首先先談基礎建設，院長覺得只有蓋個館舍、蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎？我沒有要請您回答，我請您思考。我們在前瞻建設的預算書裡面看到很多所謂的前瞻，但很多跟科技相關的，不一定是硬體，其實有很多軟體、軟實力，真的要打基礎的話，我們應該是朝這個方向。我們看到預算書裡面提到的特別相關產業，大概都把焦點放在半導體的製造技術，可是這跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差，所以國際對我們臺灣科技產業界的印象，就是硬體很強，可是軟體不行。既然這個是前瞻基礎建設，就應該利用我們臺灣硬體製造的產業優勢，把我們的弱項，也就是軟體的產業拉上來。本席強烈建議，一些目前熱門的產業，像人工智慧機器的訓練模型、各種AI應用開發，以及國外現在積極布局的量子計算領域等等，這些領域其實不是這一、兩年才出現的，當然，本席可以理解，包括我過去來不及參與，您也是才剛上任，而這個前瞻基礎建設特別預算明年度已經是第5期，可是我們在過去的前瞻基礎建設裡面都沒有看到這些項目，所以我們希望這種軟體、軟實力的基礎可以趁早來做。院長，希望您在位的一天您都可以來努力，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不錯！委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變，從2017年的第1期開始，它真的就叫基礎建設，所以到現在第5期成效……"],["徐委員欣瑩：它沒有打基礎啊！有些該有的基礎……"],["卓院長榮泰：有的，包括水工程、軌道，這些都是基礎建設。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，接著是特別預算不特別。這些特別預算過去也引起很多的質疑，其實這些特別預算都在常態的預算裡面編列就可以，不需要特別嘛！因為我們的特別預算都變成特別隨便以及常態化，特別預算常態化就是現在大家最詬病的，所以我們的特別預算其實可以直接就編列在年度的預算裡面，除非有特別的，我們才真的特別編出來。"],["卓院長榮泰：兩點跟委員報告：第一就是前瞻之後賴總統提出五大信賴產業，其中的半導體、AI等等，就是要開始往軟體設計去做更多的研發。第二個部分，今年除了最後的前瞻基礎建設跟國防部的特別預算之外，我們沒有新編任何的特別預算，就是要回到正常預算的本身，用公務預算跟大院來進行對年度預算的審核。"],["徐委員欣瑩：非常好！我們希望能夠尊重整個財政紀律及預算的體制。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：接著本席想要針對國營事業績效不彰特別提出來，明年度的政府財政收入非常漂亮，114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%，這是因為現在國際局勢的情況變好，以及全民的努力累積出來的結果。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個非常值得高興，但是本席要特別提出來，在整個總預算裡面，我們的國營企業收入及財產收入這兩類都比前一年分別減少了10.8%及5.9%。院長，這個數字就表示人民來當老闆會賺錢，但是政府當老闆就虧錢。針對這個問題，我們特別看到在國營事業當中，去年台電就虧損了1,992億最為嚴重，而虧損的前五名裡面經濟部就占了三個，分別是台電、中油及台水。大家也都覺得台電、中油、台水不能倒，所以本席希望院長一定要好好的帶領這個執政團隊，大家一起充電、加油、多喝水！能不能讓國營事業轉虧為盈？院長，您有把這個設定為目標嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也一直希望把國營事業經營得活絡起來，所以包括經濟部郭部長，還有國發會劉主委，他們過去來自產業，都有比較跟我們公務傳統相反的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，本席是請問你們的整個執政團隊有沒有想說，我們的國營事業不能都一直虧損，否則對不起民眾啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有這樣的目標，我們也會做這樣的計畫，逐步來推行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：非常好。本席接著要講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。針對錯誤的政策，過去的能源配比在總質詢時本席提過了，我們用非常昂貴的再生能源，我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高，當然我們都知道這已經簽約20年，但是我們應該可以從其他方面改善，還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤。最特別的就是我們有比較潔淨也比較便宜的能源，之前院長有說可以考慮，那現在你們有沒有考慮未來要使用比較潔淨的能源，而且是價格比較低廉的？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個，除了世界在研發的各種能源我們都密切注意之外，就國內而言，針對小水力或是地熱這樣的發展，我們也會注入更多的關心。"],["卓院長榮泰：那些產生的電都遠遠不及我們所需要的，所以看來這個部分真的還是不行。但沒關係，本席接著要講國營企業的另外一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案，包括112年宣判的中油煉製事業部的採購弊案、113年破獲的台電大林電廠採購弊案、近期的台鹽綠能公司弊案，還有台電的綠能弊案等等，不勝枚舉，所以民進黨執政，讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐畫上等號，但是賴總統還有卓院長上任後，你們到底有沒有想給人民耳目一新的感覺？有沒有想要扭轉這個印象？"],["卓院長榮泰：台鹽綠能的問題，我們非常地痛心，我覺得當事人應該勇於面對社會……"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，請你就我的問題回答，因為我時間有限。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。另外，綠能犯罪的事情，我們多次提出要求能夠做多方的合作，來針對綠能犯罪……"],["徐委員欣瑩：未來，我們談未來！這些是已經被查出來的。未來卓院長帶領的行政院團隊，有沒有覺得絕對要讓民眾耳目一新，不要一直都發生這麼多弊案？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個就是對綠能犯罪，我們要全力地遏止，有不法，我們就糾出來。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你對整個團隊有沒有喊話，針對大家的操守問題這方面？"],["卓院長榮泰：這不只是喊話，我們開過很多次的會，做過一些實際的計畫，我希望從檢、警、調單位能夠一一地下去執行，還有，經濟部、能源署跟台電也要貫徹整個制度面，讓它正常化。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們希望能夠如此。再來是第三點，本席要特別提到我們的教育經費。請院長看一下，臺灣在1990年代每年教育經費占GDP的比率都超過6%。我們再比較一下馬政府跟蔡政府，馬政府時代那8年，教育經費占GDP的比率也有百分之五點多到六；但是到了蔡政府，整個教育經費占GDP的比率就剩百分之四點多。我們又特別看了明年度的預算，我們稍微預測（GDP當然只能預測），2024年（今年）我們教育經費占整個GDP的比率只有4.26%，我們預測明年、後年如果沒有特別提高，大概也是百分之四點多。","本席想說的是，我們臺灣已經少子化，上次在這邊質詢的時候提到，我們的出生人口數從三十幾萬掉到十幾萬，現在只有13萬，生得少，還不好好地培養，把他培養成菁英。我們一般一個家庭生3個、5個，那就一般養；像那種只生1個的，花的經費不會因為只養育1個，就比養育3個的花費少、只有三分之一，沒有這樣，通常生得越少，我們越要把他培養成菁英，對不對？臺灣未來也需要這些國家的主人翁啊！所以針對我們的教育經費，院長，本席希望我們可以增加，讓教育經費占整個GDP的比率再增加1%，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們必須非常重視教育，但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅地成長，所以比率上減少了百分之零點多，但就數字上、金額上是增加很多的，比方113年我們的教育經費編了7,700億，114年我們會到達8,300億。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，我們特別看了，如果整個成長，世界各國都一起成長，所以我們還有一張表，就是我們看到我們臺灣跟世界主要先進國家比，人家也都百分之五點多、六點多，我們還是只有百分之四點多，所以我們還是有成長的空間。而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠、那邊也喊不夠，所以是不是可以就整體來說，為了我們的孩子，窮不能窮教育，苦不能苦孩子，更何況我們現在不窮，我們的稅收首次突破3兆1,500億。所以針對我們的教育經費，本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命，請問院長，我們可不可以增加1%？"],["卓院長榮泰：增加的幅度會有多少，我想應該要衡量未來整個需要，現在我們不僅在對0到6歲，乃至於高職、大學，我們都有更多新的機制之外，對整個學校老舊教室、甚至廁所的改建，我們也都編了幾百億的預算在支應，這個都會持續下去。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這些我們知道都在那個百分之四點多裡面，但是還是很不足，所以我們希望能夠再增加1%。"],["卓院長榮泰：未來我希望我們的高等教育在世界的排名能夠再往上升……"],["徐委員欣瑩：都要，都需要。"],["卓院長榮泰：那必須充實很多的教學設備、師資等等。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我們希望教育經費占GDP的比率能夠再提高1%。","再來，本席想要就移轉性支付來討論，院長，你應該瞭解，整個移轉性支付的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義，所以移轉性支付越高、越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重，我們看到整個預算裡面的移轉性支付逐年上漲，院長，你知道這個情況嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們來看看數字。"],["徐委員欣瑩：移轉性支付逐年上漲，從105年五千多億到現在七千多億，明年的預算是七千六百多億。再來，其中最主要、占最大比例的就是社福支出，最主要就是社福支出，社福支出持續上升就表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義，這也表示我們社會有一些問題依然嚴重，例如貧富差距以及很多的弱勢團體，還有高齡化、老齡化的來臨。面對這些問題我們需要的是解決方案，所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿，我不知道我們的行政院團隊、我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題，以及如何來解決？"],["卓院長榮泰：在經濟高度發展之後要讓全民共享，況且我們步入了超高齡的社會、步入了少子化的社會，我們必須做更多的家庭社會投資，支持家庭減少他的負擔，所以這個支出會增加。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，本席的時間有限，本席在這裡提供一個想法，美國有勞動所得稅務優惠，對於特定對象，像臺灣有一些中低收入戶或者是比較弱勢的，他如果是全職工作者，可不可以對他進行一些補貼及退稅？讓他的薪資達到一定水平之後，這個補貼再逐漸下降，也就是你要激勵他出來，讓他們改善自己的生活。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的勞動條件、環境跟美國不同，但是有好的方式，我想我們都可以去研究，我們會把它列為一個研究的方向。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第27號郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}}