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{\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 921.084, \"end\": 921.264, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 921.264, \"end\": 921.424, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 921.424, \"end\": 921.785, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 921.785, \"end\": 921.905, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"麻\", \"start\": 921.905, \"end\": 922.405, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"煩\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"士\", \"start\": 922.405, \"end\": 922.786, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"凱\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 922.786, \"end\": 923.186, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 923.186, \"end\": 923.787, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"郭\", \"start\": 923.787, \"end\": 923.927, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 923.927, \"end\": 924.367, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 924.367, \"end\": 924.427, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 924.427, \"end\": 924.567, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 924.567, \"end\": 924.727, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 924.727, \"end\": 925.228, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 925.228, \"end\": 925.608, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 925.608, \"end\": 925.768, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 925.768, \"end\": 925.969, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 925.969, \"end\": 926.049, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 926.049, \"end\": 926.669, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 926.669, \"end\": 926.809, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 926.809, \"end\": 927.31, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"綜\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 927.31, \"end\": 927.83, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 927.83, \"end\": 927.93, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 927.93, \"end\": 928.051, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 928.051, \"end\": 928.171, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 928.171, \"end\": 928.331, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 928.331, \"end\": 928.591, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 928.591, \"end\": 928.751, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"創\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 928.751, \"end\": 928.911, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 928.911, \"end\": 928.931, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,202 --> 00:00:16,164\n院長好許院長麻煩請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢郭委員好卓院長好卓院長您上來以來我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院主改的問題包括體育部的這個升格問題我覺得除了體育部的升格問題之外我認為財經部門其實也要面臨升格的問題\n\n2\n00:00:41,770 --> 00:01:09,324\n過往大概20年之間財經部門並沒有精心加入主改的行列我舉金管會為例子好了在2004年到今年為止20年間它金融業的發展速度非常之快總共在整個管理金額上已經高達126兆可是這個部會當中的預算經常性的預算也不過是16億之多而這16億之多的部分是調薪而來\n\n3\n00:01:10,390 --> 00:01:18,944\n第一個,他的金融業的快速發展第二個,我跟部長說明一下升格的第二個理由呢因為很多詐騙、金流還有這個類金融\n\n4\n00:01:21,570 --> 00:01:50,692\n所有幾乎都要靠金管會如果交給其他部會都做的2266包括第三方支付第三方支付的這種業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的只是差別金額不同而已一個是20以上一個是20以下可是交給這個數位部就執行了實在是非常令人失望常常會有400多億的洗錢案件的事情發生到現在為止還是無法管理第二個類似像金融管理公司\n\n5\n00:01:51,132 --> 00:02:18,585\n金融管理公司現在誰在管經濟部在管我問過幾次次長一問三不知所以說任由這些金融類金融機構這些融資公司就變成詐騙金流還有包括洗錢還有包括高利貸這些都是社會問題的來源這社會問題的來源我們要去面對第二個除了這個問題之外第三個你去看看金管會的業務\n\n6\n00:02:20,402 --> 00:02:32,775\n實在越來越多除了其實金融科技之外還有包括這個P2P的部分先買後付虛擬資產這個部分還有包括存網的部分一堆\n\n7\n00:02:34,054 --> 00:02:52,835\n還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好金融科技發展路徑也好經發會所對外的業務當中多數都是跟經管會有所相關所以我想說在院長你回答之前我先問一下經管會主委的看法是怎麼樣\n\n8\n00:02:54,065 --> 00:02:58,549\n有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?\n\n9\n00:03:19,225 --> 00:03:19,245\n謝謝委員\n\n10\n00:03:43,939 --> 00:04:01,420\n主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的夜館範圍增加了,他的人力不足未來怎麼解決,昨天晚上520之前我們徵詢主委來,他有一句話我到現在牢牢記住,他說金融監督管理委員會\n\n11\n00:04:02,681 --> 00:04:26,639\n監理不能鬆發展不能放這兩條路線必須要做得好我們才會有有效的管理我們才會有實質的發展未來我們朝向這個方向發展要有錢有人啊這個主管的業務一旦擴增那應該有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情擴編不是為了擴編的擴編擴編是要解決社會問題的擴編也因此為什麼請院長啊\n\n12\n00:04:27,579 --> 00:04:44,955\n來做一個行政院層級的一個規劃報告來評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性,院長這個建議我們會很慎重的來考量慎重考量再給本席一個答覆好不好另外一個跟金融相關的那個跟外交部也有相關那個外交部長林佳龍林部長麻煩\n\n13\n00:04:46,428 --> 00:04:46,488\n報告委員\n\n14\n00:05:15,468 --> 00:05:35,621\n我們據理力爭因為我們是有雙方的協議當然我們也要做各種因應確保我們的住管人員的安全跟領悟的順利進行目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨還有各界包括美國等等\n\n15\n00:05:36,181 --> 00:05:58,258\n部長辛苦除了聲援外債的身份之外我們手頭上有的東西是什麼可以操作在我們什麼東西本席跟你直接建議第一個金融商業金融商業的投資南非幣計價基金投資型的保單還有存款我們跟南非幣相關估計起來就有4216億啊這就金融外交啊\n\n16\n00:05:59,292 --> 00:06:17,749\n你的整個綜合外交當中有商業外交有體育外交就是獨缺金融外交就是很可惜這時候我們的金融實力就可以成為一個反制的工具不是嗎我們可能是除了南非國家以外擁有南非比最多的台灣是最多的國家\n\n17\n00:06:18,851 --> 00:06:19,791\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間\n\n18\n00:06:47,824 --> 00:06:48,224\n各位部長,你們看法怎麼樣?\n\n19\n00:07:03,809 --> 00:07:05,230\n主委你掌管金融業\n\n20\n00:07:33,929 --> 00:07:37,390\n我跟委員也說明一下確實因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱\n\n21\n00:08:02,594 --> 00:08:16,443\n那受制於人那我們當然這個風險對我們來講我們政府也要示警那基本上外交是基於對等那其他就是我們的政策工具有一些部分是要在這個原則上來處理\n\n22\n00:08:18,264 --> 00:08:46,508\n部長我跟你說明就是說我們基本上所有的這個受險的部分高達七成有二十幾兆在海外他其實也不太關心負險的問題一來我們要關心負險二來我們又可以建立外交這是最好的方式啊所以我意思是說你把榮邦計畫的部分也可以納入這個受險業的基金也可以把受險的部分金融業的部分納入你的綜合外交的部分這不是兩邊都可以來一起處理嗎\n\n23\n00:08:47,228 --> 00:08:47,468\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n24\n00:09:10,583 --> 00:09:37,731\n主委剛剛好幾個同仁在講說我們如果前瞻計畫沒了那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算就回到公間預算公間預算要排啊遙遙無期啊對不對而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算也不太確定要靠什麼靠這些嘛所以這個開發模式要有所不同\n\n25\n00:09:39,229 --> 00:09:53,184\n那個院長我跟你說我感慨很深六都當中就唯獨台南沒有捷運六都當中5期的整個啊前瞻計畫跟台南的關聯性其實沒有什麼關聯\n\n26\n00:09:54,394 --> 00:10:11,670\n我們不過拿到一億多的一個規劃費用而已真正的建設費用五期都沒有所以就六度當中臺南的捷運要如何後發先至之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的那個部長陳士凱陳部長\n\n27\n00:10:13,632 --> 00:10:29,505\n我覺得有兩個方式要處理第一個你要透過聯合開發的方式要怎麼快的速度那個主委在這邊我會給院長建議有幾個方式第一個弓箭的這個P要處理第二個弓箭的RIS要處理\n\n28\n00:10:30,486 --> 00:10:31,006\n我們現在會把如何促進民生參與\n\n29\n00:10:50,766 --> 00:11:07,466\n讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的一個重要指標那這個也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式你有錯不要提到一般的預算的思考否則這樣排下去遙遙無期你知道嗎依照目前的時程規劃\n\n30\n00:11:09,047 --> 00:11:36,877\n臺南最快最快也要7年之後才會看到這個結運這是樂觀的預估更何況他第二期西北地區的部分我要請部長陳士凱部長應該優先規劃為什麼因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下你要再等到三年後那就像如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的結運放在第二期同樣的思考\n\n31\n00:11:36,937 --> 00:11:37,518\n同步規劃考慮到南科因素的特別狀況\n\n32\n00:11:55,574 --> 00:11:57,515\n最近台南市政府\n\n33\n00:12:21,536 --> 00:12:45,590\n在台南車站的部分有提出一個4億元的這個經費台南車站啊我每次都看到台南車站啊非常的痛心啊古蹟啊破壞台鐵亂搞一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在本來2022年要弄好到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好那是政府之詞啊國家丟臉啊\n\n34\n00:12:50,676 --> 00:13:16,458\n這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫出來要弄一個新的計畫可是這個計畫當中也引起很多地方不同的意見我現在這邊我想要跟陳部長說我也要跟郭部長、經濟部長提一下還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下在這個台南車站當中前方有一個叫做\n\n35\n00:13:17,119 --> 00:13:17,819\n沒有道理嘛!\n\n36\n00:13:45,595 --> 00:14:10,660\n那個地方應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方把它移除最近啊臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400臺南400目前我知道沒有留下什麼可是臺南300在日治時期他留下一個什麼留下一個臺南市歷史博物館在現在的民生利雲中西區公所的那個地方後來因為美軍空炸沒了\n\n37\n00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:12,960\n地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府\n\n38\n00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:43,159\n三百到四百,四百中央文化部給了多少錢?\n\n39\n00:15:08,933 --> 00:15:28,931\n有多少沒有留下任何東西啊我們在以前台灣博物館的時候留下228公園啊台南300的時候留下歷史博物館啊台南400到底留下什麼我們不清楚所以趁現在這個改建計畫的時候我麻煩陳士凱部長還有郭部長還有李部長好好思考一下把一個綜合規劃的可能性把它創造出來謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12202\t16164\t院長好 許院長麻煩請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢郭委員好卓院長好 卓院長您上來以來我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院主改的問題包括體育部的這個升格問題我覺得除了體育部的升格問題之外我認為財經部門其實也要面臨升格的問題\n41770\t69324\t過往大概20年之間財經部門並沒有精心加入主改的行列我舉金管會為例子好了在2004年到今年為止20年間它金融業的發展速度非常之快總共在整個管理金額上已經高達126兆可是這個部會當中的預算經常性的預算也不過是16億之多而這16億之多的部分是調薪而來\n70390\t78944\t第一個,他的金融業的快速發展第二個,我跟部長說明一下升格的第二個理由呢因為很多詐騙、金流還有這個類金融\n81570\t110692\t所有幾乎都要靠金管會如果交給其他部會都做的2266包括第三方支付第三方支付的這種業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的只是差別金額不同而已一個是20以上 一個是20以下可是交給這個數位部就執行了實在是非常令人失望常常會有400多億的洗錢案件的事情發生到現在為止還是無法管理第二個類似像金融管理公司\n111132\t138585\t金融管理公司現在誰在管經濟部在管我問過幾次次長一問三不知所以說任由這些金融類金融機構這些融資公司就變成詐騙金流還有包括洗錢還有包括高利貸這些都是社會問題的來源這社會問題的來源我們要去面對第二個除了這個問題之外第三個你去看看金管會的業務\n140402\t152775\t實在越來越多除了其實金融科技之外還有包括這個P2P的部分先買後付虛擬資產這個部分還有包括存網的部分一堆\n154054\t172835\t還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好金融科技發展路徑也好經發會所對外的業務當中多數都是跟經管會有所相關所以我想說在院長你回答之前我先問一下經管會主委的看法是怎麼樣\n174065\t178549\t有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?\n199225\t199245\t謝謝委員\n223939\t241420\t主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的夜館範圍增加了,他的人力不足未來怎麼解決,昨天晚上520之前我們徵詢主委來,他有一句話我到現在牢牢記住,他說金融監督管理委員會\n242681\t266639\t監理不能鬆發展不能放這兩條路線必須要做得好我們才會有有效的管理我們才會有實質的發展未來我們朝向這個方向發展要有錢有人啊這個主管的業務一旦擴增那應該有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情擴編不是為了擴編的擴編擴編是要解決社會問題的擴編也因此為什麼請院長啊\n267579\t284955\t來做一個行政院層級的一個規劃報告來評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性,院長這個建議我們會很慎重的來考量慎重考量再給本席一個答覆好不好另外一個跟金融相關的那個跟外交部也有相關那個外交部長林佳龍林部長麻煩\n286428\t286488\t報告委員\n315468\t335621\t我們據理力爭因為我們是有雙方的協議當然我們也要做各種因應確保我們的住管人員的安全跟領悟的順利進行目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨還有各界包括美國等等\n336181\t358258\t部長辛苦除了聲援外債的身份之外我們手頭上有的東西是什麼可以操作在我們什麼東西本席跟你直接建議第一個金融商業金融商業的投資南非幣計價基金投資型的保單還有存款我們跟南非幣相關估計起來就有4216億啊這就金融外交啊\n359292\t377749\t你的整個綜合外交當中有商業外交有體育外交就是獨缺金融外交就是很可惜這時候我們的金融實力就可以成為一個反制的工具不是嗎我們可能是除了南非國家以外擁有南非比最多的台灣是最多的國家\n378851\t379791\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間\n407824\t408224\t各位部長,你們看法怎麼樣?\n423809\t425230\t主委你掌管金融業\n453929\t457390\t我跟委員也說明一下確實因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱\n482594\t496443\t那受制於人那我們當然這個風險對我們來講我們政府也要示警那基本上外交是基於對等那其他就是我們的政策工具有一些部分是要在這個原則上來處理\n498264\t526508\t部長我跟你說明就是說我們基本上所有的這個受險的部分高達七成有二十幾兆在海外他其實也不太關心負險的問題一來我們要關心負險二來我們又可以建立外交這是最好的方式啊所以我意思是說你把榮邦計畫的部分也可以納入這個受險業的基金也可以把受險的部分金融業的部分納入你的綜合外交的部分這不是兩邊都可以來一起處理嗎\n527228\t527468\t二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n550583\t577731\t主委剛剛好幾個同仁在講說我們如果前瞻計畫沒了那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算就回到公間預算公間預算要排啊遙遙無期啊對不對而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算也不太確定要靠什麼靠這些嘛所以這個開發模式要有所不同\n579229\t593184\t那個院長我跟你說我感慨很深六都當中就唯獨台南沒有捷運六都當中5期的整個啊前瞻計畫跟台南的關聯性其實沒有什麼關聯\n594394\t611670\t我們不過拿到一億多的一個規劃費用而已真正的建設費用五期都沒有所以就六度當中臺南的捷運要如何後發先至之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的那個部長陳士凱陳部長\n613632\t629505\t我覺得有兩個方式要處理第一個你要透過聯合開發的方式要怎麼快的速度那個主委在這邊我會給院長建議有幾個方式第一個 弓箭的這個P要處理第二個弓箭的RIS要處理\n630486\t631006\t我們現在會把如何促進民生參與\n650766\t667466\t讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的一個重要指標那這個也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式你有錯不要提到一般的預算的思考否則這樣排下去遙遙無期你知道嗎依照目前的時程規劃\n669047\t696877\t臺南最快最快也要7年之後才會看到這個結運這是樂觀的預估更何況他第二期西北地區的部分我要請部長陳士凱部長應該優先規劃為什麼因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下你要再等到三年後那就像如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的結運放在第二期同樣的思考\n696937\t697518\t同步規劃考慮到南科因素的特別狀況\n715574\t717515\t最近台南市政府\n741536\t765590\t在台南車站的部分有提出一個4億元的這個經費台南車站啊我每次都看到台南車站啊非常的痛心啊古蹟啊破壞台鐵亂搞一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在本來2022年要弄好到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好那是政府之詞啊國家丟臉啊\n770676\t796458\t這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫出來要弄一個新的計畫可是這個計畫當中也引起很多地方不同的意見我現在這邊我想要跟陳部長說我也要跟郭部長、經濟部長提一下還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下在這個台南車站當中前方有一個叫做\n797119\t797819\t沒有道理嘛!\n825595\t850660\t那個地方應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方把它移除最近啊臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400臺南400目前我知道沒有留下什麼可是臺南300在日治時期他留下一個什麼留下一個臺南市歷史博物館在現在的民生利雲中西區公所的那個地方後來因為美軍空炸沒了\n851460\t852960\t地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府\n881639\t883159\t三百到四百,四百中央文化部給了多少錢?\n908933\t928931\t有多少沒有留下任何東西啊我們在以前台灣博物館的時候留下228公園啊台南300的時候留下歷史博物館啊台南400到底留下什麼我們不清楚所以趁現在這個改建計畫的時候我麻煩陳士凱部長還有郭部長還有李部長好好思考一下把一個綜合規劃的可能性把它創造出來謝謝\n","txt":"院長好 許院長麻煩請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢郭委員好卓院長好 卓院長您上來以來我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院主改的問題包括體育部的這個升格問題我覺得除了體育部的升格問題之外我認為財經部門其實也要面臨升格的問題\n過往大概20年之間財經部門並沒有精心加入主改的行列我舉金管會為例子好了在2004年到今年為止20年間它金融業的發展速度非常之快總共在整個管理金額上已經高達126兆可是這個部會當中的預算經常性的預算也不過是16億之多而這16億之多的部分是調薪而來\n第一個,他的金融業的快速發展第二個,我跟部長說明一下升格的第二個理由呢因為很多詐騙、金流還有這個類金融\n所有幾乎都要靠金管會如果交給其他部會都做的2266包括第三方支付第三方支付的這種業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的只是差別金額不同而已一個是20以上 一個是20以下可是交給這個數位部就執行了實在是非常令人失望常常會有400多億的洗錢案件的事情發生到現在為止還是無法管理第二個類似像金融管理公司\n金融管理公司現在誰在管經濟部在管我問過幾次次長一問三不知所以說任由這些金融類金融機構這些融資公司就變成詐騙金流還有包括洗錢還有包括高利貸這些都是社會問題的來源這社會問題的來源我們要去面對第二個除了這個問題之外第三個你去看看金管會的業務\n實在越來越多除了其實金融科技之外還有包括這個P2P的部分先買後付虛擬資產這個部分還有包括存網的部分一堆\n還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好金融科技發展路徑也好經發會所對外的業務當中多數都是跟經管會有所相關所以我想說在院長你回答之前我先問一下經管會主委的看法是怎麼樣\n有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?\n謝謝委員\n主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的夜館範圍增加了,他的人力不足未來怎麼解決,昨天晚上520之前我們徵詢主委來,他有一句話我到現在牢牢記住,他說金融監督管理委員會\n監理不能鬆發展不能放這兩條路線必須要做得好我們才會有有效的管理我們才會有實質的發展未來我們朝向這個方向發展要有錢有人啊這個主管的業務一旦擴增那應該有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情擴編不是為了擴編的擴編擴編是要解決社會問題的擴編也因此為什麼請院長啊\n來做一個行政院層級的一個規劃報告來評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性,院長這個建議我們會很慎重的來考量慎重考量再給本席一個答覆好不好另外一個跟金融相關的那個跟外交部也有相關那個外交部長林佳龍林部長麻煩\n報告委員\n我們據理力爭因為我們是有雙方的協議當然我們也要做各種因應確保我們的住管人員的安全跟領悟的順利進行目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨還有各界包括美國等等\n部長辛苦除了聲援外債的身份之外我們手頭上有的東西是什麼可以操作在我們什麼東西本席跟你直接建議第一個金融商業金融商業的投資南非幣計價基金投資型的保單還有存款我們跟南非幣相關估計起來就有4216億啊這就金融外交啊\n你的整個綜合外交當中有商業外交有體育外交就是獨缺金融外交就是很可惜這時候我們的金融實力就可以成為一個反制的工具不是嗎我們可能是除了南非國家以外擁有南非比最多的台灣是最多的國家\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間\n各位部長,你們看法怎麼樣?\n主委你掌管金融業\n我跟委員也說明一下確實因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱\n那受制於人那我們當然這個風險對我們來講我們政府也要示警那基本上外交是基於對等那其他就是我們的政策工具有一些部分是要在這個原則上來處理\n部長我跟你說明就是說我們基本上所有的這個受險的部分高達七成有二十幾兆在海外他其實也不太關心負險的問題一來我們要關心負險二來我們又可以建立外交這是最好的方式啊所以我意思是說你把榮邦計畫的部分也可以納入這個受險業的基金也可以把受險的部分金融業的部分納入你的綜合外交的部分這不是兩邊都可以來一起處理嗎\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n主委剛剛好幾個同仁在講說我們如果前瞻計畫沒了那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算就回到公間預算公間預算要排啊遙遙無期啊對不對而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算也不太確定要靠什麼靠這些嘛所以這個開發模式要有所不同\n那個院長我跟你說我感慨很深六都當中就唯獨台南沒有捷運六都當中5期的整個啊前瞻計畫跟台南的關聯性其實沒有什麼關聯\n我們不過拿到一億多的一個規劃費用而已真正的建設費用五期都沒有所以就六度當中臺南的捷運要如何後發先至之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的那個部長陳士凱陳部長\n我覺得有兩個方式要處理第一個你要透過聯合開發的方式要怎麼快的速度那個主委在這邊我會給院長建議有幾個方式第一個 弓箭的這個P要處理第二個弓箭的RIS要處理\n我們現在會把如何促進民生參與\n讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的一個重要指標那這個也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式你有錯不要提到一般的預算的思考否則這樣排下去遙遙無期你知道嗎依照目前的時程規劃\n臺南最快最快也要7年之後才會看到這個結運這是樂觀的預估更何況他第二期西北地區的部分我要請部長陳士凱部長應該優先規劃為什麼因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下你要再等到三年後那就像如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的結運放在第二期同樣的思考\n同步規劃考慮到南科因素的特別狀況\n最近台南市政府\n在台南車站的部分有提出一個4億元的這個經費台南車站啊我每次都看到台南車站啊非常的痛心啊古蹟啊破壞台鐵亂搞一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在本來2022年要弄好到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好那是政府之詞啊國家丟臉啊\n這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫出來要弄一個新的計畫可是這個計畫當中也引起很多地方不同的意見我現在這邊我想要跟陳部長說我也要跟郭部長、經濟部長提一下還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下在這個台南車站當中前方有一個叫做\n沒有道理嘛!\n那個地方應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方把它移除最近啊臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400臺南400目前我知道沒有留下什麼可是臺南300在日治時期他留下一個什麼留下一個臺南市歷史博物館在現在的民生利雲中西區公所的那個地方後來因為美軍空炸沒了\n地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府\n三百到四百,四百中央文化部給了多少錢?\n有多少沒有留下任何東西啊我們在以前台灣博物館的時候留下228公園啊台南300的時候留下歷史博物館啊台南400到底留下什麼我們不清楚所以趁現在這個改建計畫的時候我麻煩陳士凱部長還有郭部長還有李部長好好思考一下把一個綜合規劃的可能性把它創造出來謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.202 --> 00:16.164\n院長好許院長麻煩請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢郭委員好卓院長好卓院長您上來以來我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院主改的問題包括體育部的這個升格問題我覺得除了體育部的升格問題之外我認為財經部門其實也要面臨升格的問題\n\n00:41.770 --> 01:09.324\n過往大概20年之間財經部門並沒有精心加入主改的行列我舉金管會為例子好了在2004年到今年為止20年間它金融業的發展速度非常之快總共在整個管理金額上已經高達126兆可是這個部會當中的預算經常性的預算也不過是16億之多而這16億之多的部分是調薪而來\n\n01:10.390 --> 01:18.944\n第一個,他的金融業的快速發展第二個,我跟部長說明一下升格的第二個理由呢因為很多詐騙、金流還有這個類金融\n\n01:21.570 --> 01:50.692\n所有幾乎都要靠金管會如果交給其他部會都做的2266包括第三方支付第三方支付的這種業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的只是差別金額不同而已一個是20以上一個是20以下可是交給這個數位部就執行了實在是非常令人失望常常會有400多億的洗錢案件的事情發生到現在為止還是無法管理第二個類似像金融管理公司\n\n01:51.132 --> 02:18.585\n金融管理公司現在誰在管經濟部在管我問過幾次次長一問三不知所以說任由這些金融類金融機構這些融資公司就變成詐騙金流還有包括洗錢還有包括高利貸這些都是社會問題的來源這社會問題的來源我們要去面對第二個除了這個問題之外第三個你去看看金管會的業務\n\n02:20.402 --> 02:32.775\n實在越來越多除了其實金融科技之外還有包括這個P2P的部分先買後付虛擬資產這個部分還有包括存網的部分一堆\n\n02:34.054 --> 02:52.835\n還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好金融科技發展路徑也好經發會所對外的業務當中多數都是跟經管會有所相關所以我想說在院長你回答之前我先問一下經管會主委的看法是怎麼樣\n\n02:54.065 --> 02:58.549\n有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?\n\n03:19.225 --> 03:19.245\n謝謝委員\n\n03:43.939 --> 04:01.420\n主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的夜館範圍增加了,他的人力不足未來怎麼解決,昨天晚上520之前我們徵詢主委來,他有一句話我到現在牢牢記住,他說金融監督管理委員會\n\n04:02.681 --> 04:26.639\n監理不能鬆發展不能放這兩條路線必須要做得好我們才會有有效的管理我們才會有實質的發展未來我們朝向這個方向發展要有錢有人啊這個主管的業務一旦擴增那應該有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情擴編不是為了擴編的擴編擴編是要解決社會問題的擴編也因此為什麼請院長啊\n\n04:27.579 --> 04:44.955\n來做一個行政院層級的一個規劃報告來評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性,院長這個建議我們會很慎重的來考量慎重考量再給本席一個答覆好不好另外一個跟金融相關的那個跟外交部也有相關那個外交部長林佳龍林部長麻煩\n\n04:46.428 --> 04:46.488\n報告委員\n\n05:15.468 --> 05:35.621\n我們據理力爭因為我們是有雙方的協議當然我們也要做各種因應確保我們的住管人員的安全跟領悟的順利進行目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨還有各界包括美國等等\n\n05:36.181 --> 05:58.258\n部長辛苦除了聲援外債的身份之外我們手頭上有的東西是什麼可以操作在我們什麼東西本席跟你直接建議第一個金融商業金融商業的投資南非幣計價基金投資型的保單還有存款我們跟南非幣相關估計起來就有4216億啊這就金融外交啊\n\n05:59.292 --> 06:17.749\n你的整個綜合外交當中有商業外交有體育外交就是獨缺金融外交就是很可惜這時候我們的金融實力就可以成為一個反制的工具不是嗎我們可能是除了南非國家以外擁有南非比最多的台灣是最多的國家\n\n06:18.851 --> 06:19.791\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間\n\n06:47.824 --> 06:48.224\n各位部長,你們看法怎麼樣?\n\n07:03.809 --> 07:05.230\n主委你掌管金融業\n\n07:33.929 --> 07:37.390\n我跟委員也說明一下確實因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱\n\n08:02.594 --> 08:16.443\n那受制於人那我們當然這個風險對我們來講我們政府也要示警那基本上外交是基於對等那其他就是我們的政策工具有一些部分是要在這個原則上來處理\n\n08:18.264 --> 08:46.508\n部長我跟你說明就是說我們基本上所有的這個受險的部分高達七成有二十幾兆在海外他其實也不太關心負險的問題一來我們要關心負險二來我們又可以建立外交這是最好的方式啊所以我意思是說你把榮邦計畫的部分也可以納入這個受險業的基金也可以把受險的部分金融業的部分納入你的綜合外交的部分這不是兩邊都可以來一起處理嗎\n\n08:47.228 --> 08:47.468\n二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n09:10.583 --> 09:37.731\n主委剛剛好幾個同仁在講說我們如果前瞻計畫沒了那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算就回到公間預算公間預算要排啊遙遙無期啊對不對而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算也不太確定要靠什麼靠這些嘛所以這個開發模式要有所不同\n\n09:39.229 --> 09:53.184\n那個院長我跟你說我感慨很深六都當中就唯獨台南沒有捷運六都當中5期的整個啊前瞻計畫跟台南的關聯性其實沒有什麼關聯\n\n09:54.394 --> 10:11.670\n我們不過拿到一億多的一個規劃費用而已真正的建設費用五期都沒有所以就六度當中臺南的捷運要如何後發先至之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的那個部長陳士凱陳部長\n\n10:13.632 --> 10:29.505\n我覺得有兩個方式要處理第一個你要透過聯合開發的方式要怎麼快的速度那個主委在這邊我會給院長建議有幾個方式第一個弓箭的這個P要處理第二個弓箭的RIS要處理\n\n10:30.486 --> 10:31.006\n我們現在會把如何促進民生參與\n\n10:50.766 --> 11:07.466\n讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的一個重要指標那這個也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式你有錯不要提到一般的預算的思考否則這樣排下去遙遙無期你知道嗎依照目前的時程規劃\n\n11:09.047 --> 11:36.877\n臺南最快最快也要7年之後才會看到這個結運這是樂觀的預估更何況他第二期西北地區的部分我要請部長陳士凱部長應該優先規劃為什麼因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下你要再等到三年後那就像如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的結運放在第二期同樣的思考\n\n11:36.937 --> 11:37.518\n同步規劃考慮到南科因素的特別狀況\n\n11:55.574 --> 11:57.515\n最近台南市政府\n\n12:21.536 --> 12:45.590\n在台南車站的部分有提出一個4億元的這個經費台南車站啊我每次都看到台南車站啊非常的痛心啊古蹟啊破壞台鐵亂搞一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在本來2022年要弄好到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好那是政府之詞啊國家丟臉啊\n\n12:50.676 --> 13:16.458\n這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫出來要弄一個新的計畫可是這個計畫當中也引起很多地方不同的意見我現在這邊我想要跟陳部長說我也要跟郭部長、經濟部長提一下還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下在這個台南車站當中前方有一個叫做\n\n13:17.119 --> 13:17.819\n沒有道理嘛!\n\n13:45.595 --> 14:10.660\n那個地方應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方把它移除最近啊臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400臺南400目前我知道沒有留下什麼可是臺南300在日治時期他留下一個什麼留下一個臺南市歷史博物館在現在的民生利雲中西區公所的那個地方後來因為美軍空炸沒了\n\n14:11.460 --> 14:12.960\n地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府\n\n14:41.639 --> 14:43.159\n三百到四百,四百中央文化部給了多少錢?\n\n15:08.933 --> 15:28.931\n有多少沒有留下任何東西啊我們在以前台灣博物館的時候留下228公園啊台南300的時候留下歷史博物館啊台南400到底留下什麼我們不清楚所以趁現在這個改建計畫的時候我麻煩陳士凱部長還有郭部長還有李部長好好思考一下把一個綜合規劃的可能性把它創造出來謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.202,"end":16.164,"text":"院長好 許院長麻煩請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢郭委員好卓院長好 卓院長您上來以來我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院主改的問題包括體育部的這個升格問題我覺得除了體育部的升格問題之外我認為財經部門其實也要面臨升格的問題"},{"start":41.77,"end":69.324,"text":"過往大概20年之間財經部門並沒有精心加入主改的行列我舉金管會為例子好了在2004年到今年為止20年間它金融業的發展速度非常之快總共在整個管理金額上已經高達126兆可是這個部會當中的預算經常性的預算也不過是16億之多而這16億之多的部分是調薪而來"},{"start":70.39,"end":78.944,"text":"第一個,他的金融業的快速發展第二個,我跟部長說明一下升格的第二個理由呢因為很多詐騙、金流還有這個類金融"},{"start":81.57,"end":110.692,"text":"所有幾乎都要靠金管會如果交給其他部會都做的2266包括第三方支付第三方支付的這種業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的只是差別金額不同而已一個是20以上 一個是20以下可是交給這個數位部就執行了實在是非常令人失望常常會有400多億的洗錢案件的事情發生到現在為止還是無法管理第二個類似像金融管理公司"},{"start":111.132,"end":138.585,"text":"金融管理公司現在誰在管經濟部在管我問過幾次次長一問三不知所以說任由這些金融類金融機構這些融資公司就變成詐騙金流還有包括洗錢還有包括高利貸這些都是社會問題的來源這社會問題的來源我們要去面對第二個除了這個問題之外第三個你去看看金管會的業務"},{"start":140.402,"end":152.775,"text":"實在越來越多除了其實金融科技之外還有包括這個P2P的部分先買後付虛擬資產這個部分還有包括存網的部分一堆"},{"start":154.054,"end":172.835,"text":"還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好金融科技發展路徑也好經發會所對外的業務當中多數都是跟經管會有所相關所以我想說在院長你回答之前我先問一下經管會主委的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":174.065,"end":178.549,"text":"有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?"},{"start":199.225,"end":199.245,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":223.939,"end":241.42,"text":"主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的夜館範圍增加了,他的人力不足未來怎麼解決,昨天晚上520之前我們徵詢主委來,他有一句話我到現在牢牢記住,他說金融監督管理委員會"},{"start":242.681,"end":266.639,"text":"監理不能鬆發展不能放這兩條路線必須要做得好我們才會有有效的管理我們才會有實質的發展未來我們朝向這個方向發展要有錢有人啊這個主管的業務一旦擴增那應該有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情擴編不是為了擴編的擴編擴編是要解決社會問題的擴編也因此為什麼請院長啊"},{"start":267.579,"end":284.955,"text":"來做一個行政院層級的一個規劃報告來評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性,院長這個建議我們會很慎重的來考量慎重考量再給本席一個答覆好不好另外一個跟金融相關的那個跟外交部也有相關那個外交部長林佳龍林部長麻煩"},{"start":286.428,"end":286.488,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":315.468,"end":335.621,"text":"我們據理力爭因為我們是有雙方的協議當然我們也要做各種因應確保我們的住管人員的安全跟領悟的順利進行目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨還有各界包括美國等等"},{"start":336.181,"end":358.258,"text":"部長辛苦除了聲援外債的身份之外我們手頭上有的東西是什麼可以操作在我們什麼東西本席跟你直接建議第一個金融商業金融商業的投資南非幣計價基金投資型的保單還有存款我們跟南非幣相關估計起來就有4216億啊這就金融外交啊"},{"start":359.292,"end":377.749,"text":"你的整個綜合外交當中有商業外交有體育外交就是獨缺金融外交就是很可惜這時候我們的金融實力就可以成為一個反制的工具不是嗎我們可能是除了南非國家以外擁有南非比最多的台灣是最多的國家"},{"start":378.851,"end":379.791,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":407.824,"end":408.224,"text":"各位部長,你們看法怎麼樣?"},{"start":423.809,"end":425.23,"text":"主委你掌管金融業"},{"start":453.929,"end":457.39,"text":"我跟委員也說明一下確實因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱"},{"start":482.594,"end":496.443,"text":"那受制於人那我們當然這個風險對我們來講我們政府也要示警那基本上外交是基於對等那其他就是我們的政策工具有一些部分是要在這個原則上來處理"},{"start":498.264,"end":526.508,"text":"部長我跟你說明就是說我們基本上所有的這個受險的部分高達七成有二十幾兆在海外他其實也不太關心負險的問題一來我們要關心負險二來我們又可以建立外交這是最好的方式啊所以我意思是說你把榮邦計畫的部分也可以納入這個受險業的基金也可以把受險的部分金融業的部分納入你的綜合外交的部分這不是兩邊都可以來一起處理嗎"},{"start":527.228,"end":527.468,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":550.583,"end":577.731,"text":"主委剛剛好幾個同仁在講說我們如果前瞻計畫沒了那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算就回到公間預算公間預算要排啊遙遙無期啊對不對而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算也不太確定要靠什麼靠這些嘛所以這個開發模式要有所不同"},{"start":579.229,"end":593.184,"text":"那個院長我跟你說我感慨很深六都當中就唯獨台南沒有捷運六都當中5期的整個啊前瞻計畫跟台南的關聯性其實沒有什麼關聯"},{"start":594.394,"end":611.67,"text":"我們不過拿到一億多的一個規劃費用而已真正的建設費用五期都沒有所以就六度當中臺南的捷運要如何後發先至之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的那個部長陳士凱陳部長"},{"start":613.632,"end":629.505,"text":"我覺得有兩個方式要處理第一個你要透過聯合開發的方式要怎麼快的速度那個主委在這邊我會給院長建議有幾個方式第一個 弓箭的這個P要處理第二個弓箭的RIS要處理"},{"start":630.486,"end":631.006,"text":"我們現在會把如何促進民生參與"},{"start":650.766,"end":667.466,"text":"讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的一個重要指標那這個也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式你有錯不要提到一般的預算的思考否則這樣排下去遙遙無期你知道嗎依照目前的時程規劃"},{"start":669.047,"end":696.877,"text":"臺南最快最快也要7年之後才會看到這個結運這是樂觀的預估更何況他第二期西北地區的部分我要請部長陳士凱部長應該優先規劃為什麼因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下你要再等到三年後那就像如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的結運放在第二期同樣的思考"},{"start":696.937,"end":697.518,"text":"同步規劃考慮到南科因素的特別狀況"},{"start":715.574,"end":717.515,"text":"最近台南市政府"},{"start":741.536,"end":765.59,"text":"在台南車站的部分有提出一個4億元的這個經費台南車站啊我每次都看到台南車站啊非常的痛心啊古蹟啊破壞台鐵亂搞一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在本來2022年要弄好到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好那是政府之詞啊國家丟臉啊"},{"start":770.676,"end":796.458,"text":"這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫出來要弄一個新的計畫可是這個計畫當中也引起很多地方不同的意見我現在這邊我想要跟陳部長說我也要跟郭部長、經濟部長提一下還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下在這個台南車站當中前方有一個叫做"},{"start":797.119,"end":797.819,"text":"沒有道理嘛!"},{"start":825.595,"end":850.66,"text":"那個地方應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方把它移除最近啊臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400臺南400目前我知道沒有留下什麼可是臺南300在日治時期他留下一個什麼留下一個臺南市歷史博物館在現在的民生利雲中西區公所的那個地方後來因為美軍空炸沒了"},{"start":851.46,"end":852.96,"text":"地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府"},{"start":881.639,"end":883.159,"text":"三百到四百,四百中央文化部給了多少錢?"},{"start":908.933,"end":928.931,"text":"有多少沒有留下任何東西啊我們在以前台灣博物館的時候留下228公園啊台南300的時候留下歷史博物館啊台南400到底留下什麼我們不清楚所以趁現在這個改建計畫的時候我麻煩陳士凱部長還有郭部長還有李部長好好思考一下把一個綜合規劃的可能性把它創造出來謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1150,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（15時3分）院長好。院長，麻煩請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：郭委員好。"],["郭委員國文：卓院長好。卓院長，你上任以來，我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院組改的問題，包括體育部的升格問題，除了體育部的升格問題之外，我認為財金部門其實也要面臨升格的問題。過往大概二十年之間財金部門並沒有加入組改行列，我舉金管會為例子好了，2004年到今年為止二十年間，金融業的發展速度非常之快，在整個管理金額上已經高達126兆，可是這個部會的經常性預算也不過16億之多，這16億之多有一部分是調薪而來的。第一個理由是金融業的快速發展。我跟部長說明一下升格的第二個理由，因為很多詐騙金流以及類金融所有幾乎都要靠金管會，如果交給其他部會都做得離離落落，包括第三方支付，第三方支付的業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的，只是金額不同的差別而已，一個是20億以上、一個是20億以下，可是卻交給數位部執行了，實在是非常令人失望，常常會有四百多億洗錢案件的事情發生，到現在為止還是無法管理。","第二個類似像金融管理公司，金融管理公司現在誰在管？經濟部在管，我問過幾次次長，一問三不知，所以任由類金融機構的這些融資公司就變成詐騙、金流，還有包括洗錢、高利貸，這些都是社會問題的來源，我們要去面對這些社會問題的來源，這是第二個。除了這個問題之外，第三個，你去看看金管會的業務，實在越來越多，除了金融科技之外，還包括P2P、先買後付、虛擬資產、純網銀等一堆，還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好、金融科技發展路徑也好，在經發會對外的業務當中，多數都是跟金管會有所相關。所以我想在院長回答之前，我先問一下金管會主委的看法是怎麼樣？有沒有需要升格？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝委員的關心，確實誠如委員說明的，金管會今年成立20年……"],["郭委員國文：有沒有需要升格？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然就以我們未來服務的量能來看，確實剛才委員提到，不管是未來有關融資公司的管理，還有像虛擬資產的管理，這個都是未來非常沉重的監理負擔。"],["郭委員國文：對！主委，是沉重的業務，不只是你們業務沉重，重點是你可以阻絕一些社會問題的發生，包括詐騙、包括洗錢、包括高利貸，這些令人痛心的社會事件都是從這些類金融事件產生而來。院長，你的看法怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的業管範圍增加了，他的人力不足，未來怎麼解決的問題，昨天晚上還在講。"],["郭委員國文：昨天晚上才在講？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：520之前，我們徵詢主委來，有一句話我到現在牢牢記住，他說金融監督管理委員會監理不能鬆、發展不能放，這兩條路線必須要做得好，我們才能有效地管理，我們才會有實質的發展，未來我們朝向這個方向來想……"],["郭委員國文：發展要有錢、有人啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：他主管的業務一旦擴增，應該要有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情。"],["郭委員國文：對，擴編不是為了擴編而擴編，是要解決社會問題而擴編，也因此我能不能請院長來做一個行政院層級的規劃報告，以評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性，院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會很慎重地來考量這個建議，因為……"],["郭委員國文：再給本席一個答復，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：另外一個跟金融相關的，跟外交部也有相關，麻煩請外交部長林佳龍部長。林佳龍部長上任以來提出了榮邦計畫，林佳龍部長上任以來提出一個綜合外交，我覺得這兩件都非常有遠見，但是最近發生了兩件事情，可能要考驗一下外交部長，第一個事情是到底在南非的部分，我們的駐外單位會不會被迫撤出南非首都，目前的近況不知道如何？"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，我們據理力爭，因為我們是有雙方的協議，當然我們也要做各種因應，確保我們駐館人員的安全跟領務的順利進行。目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來，包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨，還有各界，包括美國等等。"],["郭委員國文：部長辛苦！除了外在的聲援之外，我們手頭上有的東西是什麼？可以操之在我們的是什麼東西？本席跟你直接建議，第一個是金融商業的投資、南非幣計價的基金、投資型保單及存款，我們跟南非幣相關的估計起來就有4,216億，這就是金融外交。你的整個綜合外交當中，有商業外交、有體育外交，獨缺金融外交，就是很可惜，這時候我們的金融實力就可以成為一個反制的工具，不是嗎？臺灣可能是除了南非國家以外，擁有最多南非幣的國家，這不處理，你放在那邊，還要靠別人，那不是很可惜？這一點我提醒一下部長。","第二個，我再就教於部長的部分，你知道在參加CPTPP的12個國家當中，有一個國家對外公開大剌剌地講他支持中國加入CPTPP，這個國家就叫智利。可是我稍微估計一下五大壽險公司，單純就智利的國債跟公司債，我們在那邊就有1,861億4,998萬元之多，這個不也是一個好的利器，可以協助我們在整個經濟安全保障落實的情況底下，做為一個好的金融外交方式嗎？主委、部長，你們看法怎麼樣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告一下，確實在過去，特別是我們壽險業的資金在尋求全世界這些投資工具的時候，在很多國家、地區都有很多的投資，我想過去我們大概純粹是以投資的角度去思考這個問題，並沒有從這個來考慮，委員有提到這個東西，如果未來有這樣的可能性，我們再跟外交部來討論。"],["郭委員國文：主委，你掌管金融業，部長掌管外交方針，兩個能不能combine一下，納入所謂綜合外交的概念當中，發揮我們的金融實力？我們的金融實力是不可小覷，市值是高達全世界第十名，所以我建議部長好好思考一下，把綜合外交的部分以及金融外交納入，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：我跟委員也說明一下，確實，因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱，受制於人，當然這個風險對我們來講，我們政府也要示警，基本上外交是基於對等，其他就是我們的政策工具……"],["郭委員國文：我同意。"],["林部長佳龍：當然有一些部分是要在這個原則上來處理。"],["郭委員國文：部長，我跟你說明的就是我們基本上所有壽險資金的部分高達七成、有二十幾兆在海外，它其實也不太關心暴險的問題，一來我們要關心暴險，二來我們又可以建立外交，這是最好的方式啊！所以我的意思是說，你把榮邦計畫的部分也可以納入壽險業的基金，也可以把壽險的部分、金融業的部分納入你的綜合外交的部分，這不是兩邊都可以一起來處理嗎？跨部會處理，不要部會本位思考嘛，我就是做這樣的建議而已，好不好？林部長，請回。"],["林部長佳龍：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：另外，壽險基金的部分其實一直強調是要投入公建，可是要投入公建的部分，我們看到有兆元投入公建，這個兆元壽險基金拿回來投入公建有什麼好處呢？院長、主委，剛剛好幾個同仁在講說，我們如果前瞻計畫沒了，那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算，就回到公建預算，公建預算要排是遙遙無期啊！對不對？而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算，這個也不太確定，那要靠什麼？靠這些嘛。所以這個開發模式要有所不同，院長，我跟你說，我感慨很深，六都當中就唯獨臺南沒有捷運，六都當中5期的整個前瞻計畫跟臺南其實沒有什麼關聯，我們不過拿到一億多的規劃費用而已，真正的建設費用，5期都沒有，所以就六都當中，臺南的捷運要如何後發先至？之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的陳世凱部長，我覺得有兩個方式來處理，第一個，你要透過聯合開發的方式，要怎麼樣加快速度，主委在這邊，我也給院長建議，有幾個方式，第一個，公建的PE要處理；第二個，公建的REITs要處理；第三個，政府的永續，再來加速資金到位要處理，如果用這三種方式結合，這個聯合開發的模式才有可能把臺南的捷運變後發能夠先至，院長，我期待您的回復。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在會把如何促進民生參與，讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的重要指標，這也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式。"],["郭委員國文：沒有錯，不要停留在一般的預算思考，否則這樣排下去遙遙無期。你知道嗎？依照目前的時程規劃，臺南最快、最快也要七年之後才會看到捷運，這是樂觀的預估，更何況第二期溪北地區的部分，我要請陳世凱部長應該優先規劃，為什麼？因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊，南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下，你要再等到三年後，那就如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的捷運放在第二期，同樣的思考、一樣的道理嘛，後來我要求在第一期，現在就可以發現整個南科的發展跟高鐵的發展已經完全不同，因此因為現在南科的效應，也請部長慎重思考一下，能不能不要等到三年之後再啟動溪北的路網規劃？應該同步規劃，考慮到南科因素的特別狀況。"],["陳部長世凱：可以，這個我們跟地方政府、跟臺南市政府一起來溝通，看可不可以把後面這個拉到前面去。"],["郭委員國文：一來，前面有所規劃的路網能夠透過後發先至、其他開發手段取代預算的方式來資金到位，趕快讓整個捷運能夠興建；二來，計畫的部分能夠提早進行，有沒有可能？"],["陳部長世凱：好！可以，我們來努力。"],["郭委員國文：謝謝部長。部長，你先等一下，我還有一個問題要請教你，最近臺南市政府針對臺南車站部分有提出一個4億元的經費，我每次看到臺南車站都非常的痛心！古蹟破壞、臺鐵亂搞！一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在，本來2022年要弄好，到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好！那是政府之恥、國家丟臉！","這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫，可是這個計畫也引起很多地方不同的意見，我在這邊想要跟陳部長說，我也要跟經濟部郭部長提一下，還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下。"],["主席：麻煩請文化部長備詢。"],["郭委員國文：在這個臺南車站前方有一個叫做經濟部標準局臺南分局，占地600坪，總共建坪1,700坪的所在地，經濟部標準局臺南分局設在那邊有數十年之久，經濟部標準局的臺南分局是如此的冷衙門，竟去占到那個黃金地段！郭董，你是做生意的，你會不會在黃金地段放這個冷衙門在那邊？沒有道理嘛！應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方移除。","最近臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400，目前我知道沒有留下什麼，可是臺南300是日治時期，那時候留下一個什麼？留下一個臺南市歷史博物館，在現在的民生綠園、中西區公所那個地方，後來因為美軍空炸，沒了，經過一百年之後的臺南400，還是沒有所謂的臺南城市博物館，只是空有其名而無其實！這種情況底下，應該把這個標準局移開，在車站、臺南的門面建立臺南400當中一座嶄新的臺南市歷史博物館，甚至是願景館、甚至是探索館。我想請問院長的看法怎麼樣？三個部會在這邊，請你回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府、地方的意見來做整合。"],["郭委員國文：經濟部呢？標準局是經濟部的、火車站是交通部的！"],["卓院長榮泰：你要轉換成一個地方的大建設，還是跟地方來發……"],["郭委員國文：歷史館是文化部的業務啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：產權、所有權可能是中央政府的，但是如何發展，這個地方還是要聽聽地方的意見，但是今天委員提出的意見是一個好的方向，我們就可以用這個方向來做一些思考跟討論。"],["郭委員國文：對啊，因為300的時候……現在到了400，針對400，中央文化部給了多少錢？沒有留下任何東西啊！以前臺灣博物館的時候留下228公園、臺南300的時候留下歷史博物館，臺南400到底留下什麼？不清楚！所以趁現在這個改建計畫的時候，我麻煩陳世凱部長還有郭部長、李部長好好思考一下，把一個綜合規劃的可能性創造出來，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝郭國文委員的質詢、謝謝卓院長及各部會首長的備詢。","接下來請登記第28號邱鎮軍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}}