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157.702, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 157.702, \"end\": 157.823, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 157.823, \"end\": 158.003, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 158.003, \"end\": 158.343, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 158.343, \"end\": 158.363, \"score\": 0.74}]}, {\"start\": 159.263, \"end\": 186.842, \"text\": \"對,委員剛有提到,就圖面上所顯示的就10月31號北韓發射的火星19型的洲際彈道飛彈那正如委員所提到的,這一次的飛彈它飛行的高度有到7600公里然後飛行的時間有到85分鐘那這是北韓所有歷史上測試的飛彈飛行的距離跟時間最長的一次那我們認為在這時間點,會有這個火星19飛彈的試射主要的目的有幾個部分,第一個部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 159.263, \"end\": 159.564, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 159.564, \"end\": 159.664, \"score\": 0.445}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 159.664, \"end\": 159.844, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 159.844, \"end\": 160.064, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 160.064, 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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 186.662, \"end\": 186.822, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 186.822, \"end\": 186.842, \"score\": 0.622}]}, {\"start\": 187.022, \"end\": 187.222, \"text\": \"主席\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 187.022, \"end\": 187.202, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 187.202, \"end\": 187.222, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 206.863, \"end\": 221.537, \"text\": \"希望美國在美韓聯合軍演應該要更所謂的減少那同時在對於北韓的制裁也應該要放鬆所以北韓是透過這些內外因素的評估那我們認為才會有這個美國大選階段的一個飛彈試射的一個動作\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 206.863, \"end\": 206.983, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 206.983, \"end\": 207.143, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 207.143, \"end\": 207.544, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 207.544, \"end\": 207.724, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 207.724, \"end\": 208.224, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"韓\"}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 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\"俄羅斯前後也逮捕了好幾位極音數飛彈的相關的科學家,罪名大概都是跟洩漏資訊的機密給中國有關。那局長你認為中國的極音數飛彈這幾年突飛猛進,靠的是跟俄羅斯交換的技術還是偷他的技術還是中國自己的技術上面的突破呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"俄\", \"start\": 332.682, \"end\": 332.962, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"斯\", \"start\": 332.962, \"end\": 333.122, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 333.122, \"end\": 333.402, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 333.402, \"end\": 333.843, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 333.843, \"end\": 334.023, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"逮\", \"start\": 334.023, \"end\": 334.263, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"捕\", \"start\": 334.263, \"end\": 334.383, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 334.383, \"end\": 334.503, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 334.503, \"end\": 334.963, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 334.963, \"end\": 335.323, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"音\", \"start\": 335.323, \"end\": 336.244, \"score\": 0.757}, 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 352.47, \"end\": 352.67, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 352.67, \"end\": 353.05, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 353.05, \"end\": 353.251, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 353.251, \"end\": 353.471, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 353.471, \"end\": 353.631, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"突\", \"start\": 353.631, \"end\": 353.891, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"破\", \"start\": 353.891, \"end\": 354.111, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 354.111, \"end\": 354.131, \"score\": 0.397}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 354.411, \"end\": 354.851, \"text\": \"謝謝局長,那我有請國防部副部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 354.411, \"end\": 354.431, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 354.431, \"end\": 354.531, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 354.531, \"end\": 354.591, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 354.591, \"end\": 354.651, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 354.651, \"end\": 354.751, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 354.751, \"end\": 354.771, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 354.771, \"end\": 354.831, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 354.831, \"end\": 354.851, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}]}, {\"start\": 388.158, \"end\": 388.361, \"text\": \"早安好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 388.158, \"end\": 388.3, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 388.3, \"end\": 388.341, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 388.341, \"end\": 388.361, \"score\": 0.028}]}, {\"start\": 390.214, \"end\": 417.431, \"text\": \"副部長你知道最近我們台灣的國民都非常關注台灣與美國採購裝備上面的高效能反裝甲的飛彈的交付的進度所以今天本席想要請教一下副部長就是先前我們跟美國買的托式飛彈原本預定是6年前就要開始交貨了但是雖然載台的漢馬車已經完成交貨但為什麼飛彈拖到現在還是一旦未交呢是大約是要拖到什麼時候呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 390.214, \"end\": 390.314, 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{\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 408.065, \"end\": 408.385, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 408.385, \"end\": 408.585, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 408.585, \"end\": 409.186, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"貨\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 409.186, \"end\": 409.586, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 409.586, \"end\": 409.726, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 409.726, \"end\": 410.106, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 410.106, \"end\": 410.807, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"載\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 410.807, \"end\": 410.987, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 410.987, \"end\": 411.647, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"漢\"}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 411.647, \"end\": 411.887, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 411.887, \"end\": 412.067, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 415.81, \"end\": 415.99, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 415.99, \"end\": 416.43, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 416.43, \"end\": 416.71, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 416.71, \"end\": 416.83, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 416.83, \"end\": 416.99, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"拖\", \"start\": 416.99, \"end\": 417.17, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 417.17, \"end\": 417.31, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 417.31, \"end\": 417.39, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 417.39, \"end\": 417.41, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 417.41, \"end\": 417.431, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 418.251, \"end\": 436.425, \"text\": \"各位我剛才已經 王委員 王朝偉剛才也問過了那因為我們在 美方在測試的時候最後出場的時候 試射的時候他有很多系統上的瑕疵 所以他重新組合了那美方也保證在今年 年底之前會把所有的彈都運送到台灣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 418.251, \"end\": 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608.046, \"end\": 608.266, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 608.266, \"end\": 608.286, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 608.286, \"end\": 608.587, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 608.587, \"end\": 608.607, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}]}, {\"start\": 609.207, \"end\": 609.247, \"text\": \"﹚林憶君﹚\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"﹚\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 609.207, \"end\": 609.227, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"君\", \"start\": 609.227, \"end\": 609.247, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"﹚\"}]}, {\"start\": 624.457, \"end\": 627.037, \"text\": \"海軍目前有沒有下一代主力的作戰艦的規劃呢?而且之前蔡英文總統也提出12項國艦國造的計畫,這個會不會完成呢?還是政策有沒有調整呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 624.457, \"end\": 624.537, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 624.537, \"end\": 624.637, \"score\": 0.197}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 624.637, \"end\": 624.657, 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626.197, \"end\": 626.217, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 626.217, \"end\": 626.237, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 626.237, \"end\": 626.377, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 626.377, \"end\": 626.417, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 626.417, \"end\": 626.457, \"score\": 0.075}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 626.457, \"end\": 626.477, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 626.477, \"end\": 626.497, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 626.497, \"end\": 626.637, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 626.637, \"end\": 626.717, \"score\": 0.398}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 626.717, \"end\": 626.857, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 626.857, \"end\": 626.997, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", 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{\"word\": \"蠻\"}]}, {\"start\": 670.785, \"end\": 696.11, \"text\": \"我相信我們海軍在未來規劃上來講因應這個我們未來的這個敵情的威脅他會持續在建案那這對我們在未來的戰力上來講是有所提升我想這個都是海軍在未來來講他們都很有在系統上規劃我們也核定了他們未來的造艦計劃我想這個是既定的計劃都在依照我們的進度的計劃裡面來執行\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 670.785, \"end\": 672.706, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 672.706, \"end\": 672.886, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 672.886, \"end\": 673.226, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 673.226, \"end\": 673.506, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 673.506, \"end\": 673.966, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 673.966, \"end\": 674.166, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 674.166, \"end\": 674.846, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 674.846, \"end\": 675.786, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 675.786, \"end\": 676.826, 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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 767.713, \"end\": 767.733, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,923 --> 00:00:02,344\n謝謝主席有請國安局長我想先請問一下局長台灣現在跟俄羅斯的關係應該是這幾年來最惡劣的時候吧\n\n2\n00:00:21,088 --> 00:00:38,175\n對,我們事實上在幾年前已經終止了跟俄國全面的貿易關係那另外在俄烏戰爭之後那也因為台灣基於價值理念提供烏克蘭很多的一個援助包括人道的援助那俄國對這方面的台灣的援助也有一些維持所以也把台灣列為不友好的國家\n\n3\n00:00:39,954 --> 00:01:05,211\n從美國彭博社這個禮拜的新聞報導有看到發現今年十月份的台灣石化工業進行創紀錄的俄羅斯的石腦油本席在根據經濟部的統計所以俄羅斯是現在台灣第三大煤炭的進口的來源國也是第六大天然氣進口的來源這說明了我們台灣對俄羅斯其實有一定的人員上面的依賴\n\n4\n00:01:06,111 --> 00:01:24,294\n再加上俄羅斯跟中國現在是所謂的全面戰略協作的合夥伴的關係,那是不是表示,俄羅斯如果配合中國對台灣實施制裁,那我們是不是可能會被中國禁止我們台灣的龍魚產品出口到中國?\n\n5\n00:01:25,095 --> 00:01:44,790\n對台灣的影響會更大呢?那國安局有沒有分析那俄羅斯在哪些狀況之下會減少甚至停止對台灣石化原料的供應那國安局內部的兵推有沒有做過這樣的想定呢?對,我們國安單位是有在提醒相關的公營或國營企業在進行相關的能源採購應該也要考慮到相關地緣政治的問題\n\n6\n00:01:49,754 --> 00:01:52,596\n希望國安局之後的兵推還是要繼續設想這種可能發生的想法\n\n7\n00:02:13,868 --> 00:02:38,363\n那接下來我再問一下就是北韓上個禮拜才試射一枚火星19的洲際的飛彈然後11月4號又朝東部的海域發射好幾枚的飛彈那從射程上面來看應該至少是中程彈道的飛彈洲際洲際這是洲際彈道飛彈對那請問一下那局長你認為北韓當局的政治的目的是什麼呢\n\n8\n00:02:39,263 --> 00:03:06,842\n對,委員剛有提到,就圖面上所顯示的就10月31號北韓發射的火星19型的洲際彈道飛彈那正如委員所提到的,這一次的飛彈它飛行的高度有到7600公里然後飛行的時間有到85分鐘那這是北韓所有歷史上測試的飛彈飛行的距離跟時間最長的一次那我們認為在這時間點,會有這個火星19飛彈的試射主要的目的有幾個部分,第一個部分\n\n9\n00:03:07,022 --> 00:03:07,222\n主席\n\n10\n00:03:26,863 --> 00:03:41,537\n希望美國在美韓聯合軍演應該要更所謂的減少那同時在對於北韓的制裁也應該要放鬆所以北韓是透過這些內外因素的評估那我們認為才會有這個美國大選階段的一個飛彈試射的一個動作\n\n11\n00:03:43,109 --> 00:04:08,324\n剛才說到了北韓的飛彈,那局長你有沒有發現,就是俄烏戰爭爆發之前,然後北韓有好幾年的時間,其實在長城飛彈上面的技術好像都是遇到了瓶頸,但是過去這一年中,北韓在發射的技術方面,無論是衛星還是長城的飛彈,失敗率好像都是大幅的下降,那是不是會印證俄羅斯可能有提供北韓飛彈技術上面的猜想呢?\n\n12\n00:04:08,564 --> 00:04:25,951\n有,這部分確實有這樣的一個關聯性那因為在過去這一年多的時間那經過雙方的一個互動在大概去年11月我們就注意到委員所講的北韓四射的導彈還有衛星火箭它的成功率有提高\n\n13\n00:04:26,591 --> 00:04:39,665\n我們相信這背後應該是由俄國在技術上提供的援助那這個過程當中除了北韓接收到俄國提供的火箭技術以外北韓也供應了非常多的砲彈給俄國在俄烏戰場來使用那從公開的資訊來看北韓已經運送大概有13000多個貨櫃\n\n14\n00:04:44,850 --> 00:05:02,967\n提供的都是軍需品給俄國．所以他們雙方基於這樣各取所需的情況之下．俄國提供北韓精元跟導彈技術．那北韓提供俄國相關的一個軍需用品．跟目前的士兵到俄國去．所以有看到雙方的戰略合作關係．似乎越來越緊密\n\n15\n00:05:03,946 --> 00:05:31,641\n如果是說照這樣的推測的話這樣俄羅斯用人員出口跟輸出飛彈的技術換取北韓的軍事的資源的話那中國的話也是私底下可能會提供俄羅斯資源加上我們觀察到中國這幾年有一個極音速的飛彈發展有一個突飛猛進的趨勢那我們一般會推測中國是不是用軍事資源的交換方面俄羅斯的飛彈的技術呢但是今年出的路透社的報導就是\n\n16\n00:05:32,682 --> 00:05:54,131\n俄羅斯前後也逮捕了好幾位極音數飛彈的相關的科學家,罪名大概都是跟洩漏資訊的機密給中國有關。那局長你認為中國的極音數飛彈這幾年突飛猛進,靠的是跟俄羅斯交換的技術還是偷他的技術還是中國自己的技術上面的突破呢?\n\n17\n00:05:54,411 --> 00:05:54,851\n謝謝局長,那我有請國防部副部長\n\n18\n00:06:28,158 --> 00:06:28,361\n早安好\n\n19\n00:06:30,214 --> 00:06:57,431\n副部長你知道最近我們台灣的國民都非常關注台灣與美國採購裝備上面的高效能反裝甲的飛彈的交付的進度所以今天本席想要請教一下副部長就是先前我們跟美國買的托式飛彈原本預定是6年前就要開始交貨了但是雖然載台的漢馬車已經完成交貨但為什麼飛彈拖到現在還是一旦未交呢是大約是要拖到什麼時候呢\n\n20\n00:06:58,251 --> 00:07:16,425\n各位我剛才已經王委員王朝偉剛才也問過了那因為我們在美方在測試的時候最後出場的時候試射的時候他有很多系統上的瑕疵所以他重新組合了那美方也保證在今年年底之前會把所有的彈都運送到台灣\n\n21\n00:07:17,813 --> 00:07:36,767\n因為我記得顧部長在5個月前他就已經說過說今年年底一定會完成嘛是完成全部的交貨對但是拖到現在我覺得說因為現在已經11月了是還交不出來然後可能又好像現在是11月然後如果真的按承諾如果交是不是有剩下\n\n22\n00:07:37,648 --> 00:08:05,299\n你看我們現在總共是要交1700枚嘛然後這樣的話如果是說現在都還沒有交出來還是現在已經交多少枚了呢那真的可以你這樣分析你覺得真的可以順利完成交貨嗎?幫委員這個因為美方的保證我想我也相信他們因為基於我們雙方的默契我這邊不做贅述但是我相信在今年年底我們Toros-2B的這個廢彈會全速運到台灣\n\n23\n00:08:06,521 --> 00:08:31,568\n那請國防部就是一定要緊追著我們後續的裝備的交付的進度因為如果裝備的交付有一些拖延的問題的話是不是請國防部要主動的積極的爭取也要主動的揭露因為不要那麼被動因為不要每次都是我們發現然後我們一直在追然後其實主動揭露的話其實對國軍的形象反而是有加分的因為主動揭露的話是不是也表示你國防部對裝備採購這是一個負責任的態度\n\n24\n00:08:35,029 --> 00:08:50,632\n那國防部做得到嗎?報委員我想軍售的部分因為牽扯到我們在合約的管理上的問題那有時候揭露這件事情我們有時候在合約上管理上來講還是必須尊重那至於說進度的揭露我們也希望讓透明化讓國人知道因為是公開預算我們當然希望我們主動會告訴國人那我想這個也是提醒美方我相信不只是我們\n\n25\n00:09:04,454 --> 00:09:29,489\n委員在美國參訪的時候也了解就是說這個進度他們也想趕上來但是委員去了以後我相信進度會更快為什麼因為督促的管道非常多那包含我們今天在駐美軍事代表團他會時時刻刻定到那個進度那我們國防部的管制他是非常嚴謹的所以委員你去參訪完了以後發現到這一進度事實上有很多的關卡在罷官\n\n26\n00:09:30,109 --> 00:09:51,897\n那至於說如何去揭露我想公共訊息的發布我們也會討論未來跟美方在軍售上來講我們去協商如何做不是只有我發布我認為在軍售國來講美方也應該共同跟我來發布這個訊息為什麼他會落後的原因我想原廠他也必須要說明這個是對一個國際的軍售的保證我想這個都是我們在未來\n\n27\n00:09:53,377 --> 00:10:08,607\n在委員提醒之下我們如何去精進我們在這個交受進度上管制上來講如何去跟美方去配合來辦理謝謝委員提醒因為這是美國對台灣的軍售延遲交付的狀況真的是蠻嚴重的啦所以我還是想說我們應該\n\n28\n00:10:09,207 --> 00:10:09,247\n﹚林憶君﹚\n\n29\n00:10:24,457 --> 00:10:27,037\n海軍目前有沒有下一代主力的作戰艦的規劃呢?而且之前蔡英文總統也提出12項國艦國造的計畫,這個會不會完成呢?還是政策有沒有調整呢?\n\n30\n00:10:53,035 --> 00:11:06,643\n這個是我們海軍在既定的新型型防艦新一代型防艦事實上來講它是非常成功的那我們後續有後續艦的第二批的這個建設那同樣的防空型和反潛型的我們原型艦也在115年會做出來這些都蠻\n\n31\n00:11:10,785 --> 00:11:36,110\n我相信我們海軍在未來規劃上來講因應這個我們未來的這個敵情的威脅他會持續在建案那這對我們在未來的戰力上來講是有所提升我想這個都是海軍在未來來講他們都很有在系統上規劃我們也核定了他們未來的造艦計劃我想這個是既定的計劃都在依照我們的進度的計劃裡面來執行\n\n32\n00:11:38,299 --> 00:11:58,456\n據我了解12項的國建國造的計畫的核心除了潛艦之外最重要的應該就是政海計畫跟下一代的主力艦但是聽說中科院研發的雷達跟作戰的系統似乎又達不到要求所以挪動了整個原預算降階去做了輕型的\n\n33\n00:11:59,116 --> 00:12:01,898\n那請教一下副部長,就是國防部這樣的計畫到底是什麼呢?是放棄了升級海軍作戰艦了嗎?還是放棄了補給線呢?準備讓共軍來封鎖台灣了呢?\n\n34\n00:12:25,230 --> 00:12:46,332\n當然不是。包括我想我們的艦艇的配置,重型的一級艦、二級艦、三級艦,都是有它的所有計畫管制的其成。那輕型巡防艦只是因應我們現代的灰色地帶衝突的洗腦增加了,加上海巡的戰力,那我們如何來做搭配,因為輕型巡防艦是要\n\n35\n00:12:47,273 --> 00:12:47,733\n好謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n923\t2344\t謝謝主席 有請國安局長我想先請問一下局長 台灣現在跟俄羅斯的關係應該是這幾年來最惡劣的時候吧\n21088\t38175\t對,我們事實上在幾年前已經終止了跟俄國全面的貿易關係那另外在俄烏戰爭之後那也因為台灣基於價值理念提供烏克蘭很多的一個援助包括人道的援助那俄國對這方面的台灣的援助也有一些維持所以也把台灣列為不友好的國家\n39954\t65211\t從美國彭博社這個禮拜的新聞報導有看到發現今年十月份的台灣石化工業進行創紀錄的俄羅斯的石腦油本席在根據經濟部的統計所以俄羅斯是現在台灣第三大煤炭的進口的來源國也是第六大天然氣進口的來源這說明了我們台灣對俄羅斯其實有一定的人員上面的依賴\n66111\t84294\t再加上俄羅斯跟中國現在是所謂的全面戰略協作的合夥伴的關係,那是不是表示,俄羅斯如果配合中國對台灣實施制裁,那我們是不是可能會被中國禁止我們台灣的龍魚產品出口到中國?\n85095\t104790\t對台灣的影響會更大呢?那國安局有沒有分析那俄羅斯在哪些狀況之下會減少甚至停止對台灣石化原料的供應那國安局內部的兵推有沒有做過這樣的想定呢?對,我們國安單位是有在提醒相關的公營或國營企業在進行相關的能源採購應該也要考慮到相關地緣政治的問題\n109754\t112596\t希望國安局之後的兵推還是要繼續設想這種可能發生的想法\n133868\t158363\t那接下來我再問一下就是北韓上個禮拜才試射一枚火星19的洲際的飛彈然後11月4號又朝東部的海域發射好幾枚的飛彈那從射程上面來看應該至少是中程彈道的飛彈洲際洲際這是洲際彈道飛彈對那請問一下那局長你認為北韓當局的政治的目的是什麼呢\n159263\t186842\t對,委員剛有提到,就圖面上所顯示的就10月31號北韓發射的火星19型的洲際彈道飛彈那正如委員所提到的,這一次的飛彈它飛行的高度有到7600公里然後飛行的時間有到85分鐘那這是北韓所有歷史上測試的飛彈飛行的距離跟時間最長的一次那我們認為在這時間點,會有這個火星19飛彈的試射主要的目的有幾個部分,第一個部分\n187022\t187222\t主席\n206863\t221537\t希望美國在美韓聯合軍演應該要更所謂的減少那同時在對於北韓的制裁也應該要放鬆所以北韓是透過這些內外因素的評估那我們認為才會有這個美國大選階段的一個飛彈試射的一個動作\n223109\t248324\t剛才說到了北韓的飛彈,那局長你有沒有發現,就是俄烏戰爭爆發之前,然後北韓有好幾年的時間,其實在長城飛彈上面的技術好像都是遇到了瓶頸,但是過去這一年中,北韓在發射的技術方面,無論是衛星還是長城的飛彈,失敗率好像都是大幅的下降,那是不是會印證俄羅斯可能有提供北韓飛彈技術上面的猜想呢?\n248564\t265951\t有,這部分確實有這樣的一個關聯性那因為在過去這一年多的時間那經過雙方的一個互動在大概去年11月我們就注意到委員所講的北韓四射的導彈還有衛星火箭它的成功率有提高\n266591\t279665\t我們相信這背後應該是由俄國在技術上提供的援助那這個過程當中除了北韓接收到俄國提供的火箭技術以外北韓也供應了非常多的砲彈給俄國在俄烏戰場來使用那從公開的資訊來看北韓已經運送大概有13000多個貨櫃\n284850\t302967\t提供的都是軍需品給俄國．所以他們雙方基於這樣各取所需的情況之下．俄國提供北韓精元跟導彈技術．那北韓提供俄國相關的一個軍需用品．跟目前的士兵到俄國去．所以有看到雙方的戰略合作關係．似乎越來越緊密\n303946\t331641\t如果是說照這樣的推測的話這樣俄羅斯用人員出口跟輸出飛彈的技術換取北韓的軍事的資源的話那中國的話也是私底下可能會提供俄羅斯資源加上我們觀察到中國這幾年有一個極音速的飛彈發展有一個突飛猛進的趨勢那我們一般會推測中國是不是用軍事資源的交換方面俄羅斯的飛彈的技術呢但是今年出的路透社的報導就是\n332682\t354131\t俄羅斯前後也逮捕了好幾位極音數飛彈的相關的科學家,罪名大概都是跟洩漏資訊的機密給中國有關。那局長你認為中國的極音數飛彈這幾年突飛猛進,靠的是跟俄羅斯交換的技術還是偷他的技術還是中國自己的技術上面的突破呢?\n354411\t354851\t謝謝局長,那我有請國防部副部長\n388158\t388361\t早安好\n390214\t417431\t副部長你知道最近我們台灣的國民都非常關注台灣與美國採購裝備上面的高效能反裝甲的飛彈的交付的進度所以今天本席想要請教一下副部長就是先前我們跟美國買的托式飛彈原本預定是6年前就要開始交貨了但是雖然載台的漢馬車已經完成交貨但為什麼飛彈拖到現在還是一旦未交呢是大約是要拖到什麼時候呢\n418251\t436425\t各位我剛才已經 王委員 王朝偉剛才也問過了那因為我們在 美方在測試的時候最後出場的時候 試射的時候他有很多系統上的瑕疵 所以他重新組合了那美方也保證在今年 年底之前會把所有的彈都運送到台灣\n437813\t456767\t因為我記得顧部長在5個月前他就已經說過說今年年底一定會完成嘛是完成全部的交貨對但是拖到現在我覺得說因為現在已經11月了是還交不出來然後可能又好像現在是11月然後如果真的按承諾如果交是不是有剩下\n457648\t485299\t你看我們現在總共是要交1700枚嘛然後這樣的話如果是說現在都還沒有交出來還是現在已經交多少枚了呢那真的可以你這樣分析你覺得真的可以順利完成交貨嗎?幫委員這個因為美方的保證我想我也相信他們因為基於我們雙方的默契我這邊不做贅述但是我相信在今年年底我們Toros-2B的這個廢彈會全速運到台灣\n486521\t511568\t那請國防部就是一定要緊追著我們後續的裝備的交付的進度因為如果裝備的交付有一些拖延的問題的話是不是請國防部要主動的積極的爭取也要主動的揭露因為不要那麼被動因為不要每次都是我們發現然後我們一直在追然後其實主動揭露的話其實對國軍的形象反而是有加分的因為主動揭露的話是不是也表示你國防部對裝備採購這是一個負責任的態度\n515029\t530632\t那國防部做得到嗎?報委員我想軍售的部分因為牽扯到我們在合約的管理上的問題那有時候揭露這件事情我們有時候在合約上管理上來講還是必須尊重那至於說進度的揭露我們也希望讓透明化讓國人知道因為是公開預算我們當然希望我們主動會告訴國人那我想這個也是提醒美方我相信不只是我們\n544454\t569489\t委員在美國參訪的時候也了解就是說這個進度他們也想趕上來但是委員去了以後我相信進度會更快為什麼因為督促的管道非常多那包含我們今天在駐美軍事代表團他會時時刻刻定到那個進度那我們國防部的管制他是非常嚴謹的所以委員你去參訪完了以後發現到這一進度事實上有很多的關卡在罷官\n570109\t591897\t那至於說如何去揭露我想公共訊息的發布我們也會討論未來跟美方在軍售上來講我們去協商如何做不是只有我發布我認為在軍售國來講美方也應該共同跟我來發布這個訊息為什麼他會落後的原因我想原廠他也必須要說明這個是對一個國際的軍售的保證我想這個都是我們在未來\n593377\t608607\t在委員提醒之下我們如何去精進我們在這個交受進度上管制上來講如何去跟美方去配合來辦理謝謝委員提醒因為這是美國對台灣的軍售延遲交付的狀況真的是蠻嚴重的啦所以我還是想說我們應該\n609207\t609247\t﹚林憶君﹚\n624457\t627037\t海軍目前有沒有下一代主力的作戰艦的規劃呢?而且之前蔡英文總統也提出12項國艦國造的計畫,這個會不會完成呢?還是政策有沒有調整呢?\n653035\t666643\t這個是我們海軍在既定的新型型防艦新一代型防艦事實上來講它是非常成功的那我們後續有後續艦的第二批的這個建設那同樣的防空型和反潛型的我們原型艦也在115年會做出來這些都蠻\n670785\t696110\t我相信我們海軍在未來規劃上來講因應這個我們未來的這個敵情的威脅他會持續在建案那這對我們在未來的戰力上來講是有所提升我想這個都是海軍在未來來講他們都很有在系統上規劃我們也核定了他們未來的造艦計劃我想這個是既定的計劃都在依照我們的進度的計劃裡面來執行\n698299\t718456\t據我了解12項的國建國造的計畫的核心除了潛艦之外最重要的應該就是政海計畫跟下一代的主力艦但是聽說中科院研發的雷達跟作戰的系統似乎又達不到要求所以挪動了整個原預算降階去做了輕型的\n719116\t721898\t那請教一下副部長,就是國防部這樣的計畫到底是什麼呢?是放棄了升級海軍作戰艦了嗎?還是放棄了補給線呢?準備讓共軍來封鎖台灣了呢?\n745230\t766332\t當然不是。包括我想我們的艦艇的配置,重型的一級艦、二級艦、三級艦,都是有它的所有計畫管制的其成。那輕型巡防艦只是因應我們現代的灰色地帶衝突的洗腦增加了,加上海巡的戰力,那我們如何來做搭配,因為輕型巡防艦是要\n767273\t767733\t好 謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請國安局長我想先請問一下局長 台灣現在跟俄羅斯的關係應該是這幾年來最惡劣的時候吧\n對,我們事實上在幾年前已經終止了跟俄國全面的貿易關係那另外在俄烏戰爭之後那也因為台灣基於價值理念提供烏克蘭很多的一個援助包括人道的援助那俄國對這方面的台灣的援助也有一些維持所以也把台灣列為不友好的國家\n從美國彭博社這個禮拜的新聞報導有看到發現今年十月份的台灣石化工業進行創紀錄的俄羅斯的石腦油本席在根據經濟部的統計所以俄羅斯是現在台灣第三大煤炭的進口的來源國也是第六大天然氣進口的來源這說明了我們台灣對俄羅斯其實有一定的人員上面的依賴\n再加上俄羅斯跟中國現在是所謂的全面戰略協作的合夥伴的關係,那是不是表示,俄羅斯如果配合中國對台灣實施制裁,那我們是不是可能會被中國禁止我們台灣的龍魚產品出口到中國?\n對台灣的影響會更大呢?那國安局有沒有分析那俄羅斯在哪些狀況之下會減少甚至停止對台灣石化原料的供應那國安局內部的兵推有沒有做過這樣的想定呢?對,我們國安單位是有在提醒相關的公營或國營企業在進行相關的能源採購應該也要考慮到相關地緣政治的問題\n希望國安局之後的兵推還是要繼續設想這種可能發生的想法\n那接下來我再問一下就是北韓上個禮拜才試射一枚火星19的洲際的飛彈然後11月4號又朝東部的海域發射好幾枚的飛彈那從射程上面來看應該至少是中程彈道的飛彈洲際洲際這是洲際彈道飛彈對那請問一下那局長你認為北韓當局的政治的目的是什麼呢\n對,委員剛有提到,就圖面上所顯示的就10月31號北韓發射的火星19型的洲際彈道飛彈那正如委員所提到的,這一次的飛彈它飛行的高度有到7600公里然後飛行的時間有到85分鐘那這是北韓所有歷史上測試的飛彈飛行的距離跟時間最長的一次那我們認為在這時間點,會有這個火星19飛彈的試射主要的目的有幾個部分,第一個部分\n主席\n希望美國在美韓聯合軍演應該要更所謂的減少那同時在對於北韓的制裁也應該要放鬆所以北韓是透過這些內外因素的評估那我們認為才會有這個美國大選階段的一個飛彈試射的一個動作\n剛才說到了北韓的飛彈,那局長你有沒有發現,就是俄烏戰爭爆發之前,然後北韓有好幾年的時間,其實在長城飛彈上面的技術好像都是遇到了瓶頸,但是過去這一年中,北韓在發射的技術方面,無論是衛星還是長城的飛彈,失敗率好像都是大幅的下降,那是不是會印證俄羅斯可能有提供北韓飛彈技術上面的猜想呢?\n有,這部分確實有這樣的一個關聯性那因為在過去這一年多的時間那經過雙方的一個互動在大概去年11月我們就注意到委員所講的北韓四射的導彈還有衛星火箭它的成功率有提高\n我們相信這背後應該是由俄國在技術上提供的援助那這個過程當中除了北韓接收到俄國提供的火箭技術以外北韓也供應了非常多的砲彈給俄國在俄烏戰場來使用那從公開的資訊來看北韓已經運送大概有13000多個貨櫃\n提供的都是軍需品給俄國．所以他們雙方基於這樣各取所需的情況之下．俄國提供北韓精元跟導彈技術．那北韓提供俄國相關的一個軍需用品．跟目前的士兵到俄國去．所以有看到雙方的戰略合作關係．似乎越來越緊密\n如果是說照這樣的推測的話這樣俄羅斯用人員出口跟輸出飛彈的技術換取北韓的軍事的資源的話那中國的話也是私底下可能會提供俄羅斯資源加上我們觀察到中國這幾年有一個極音速的飛彈發展有一個突飛猛進的趨勢那我們一般會推測中國是不是用軍事資源的交換方面俄羅斯的飛彈的技術呢但是今年出的路透社的報導就是\n俄羅斯前後也逮捕了好幾位極音數飛彈的相關的科學家,罪名大概都是跟洩漏資訊的機密給中國有關。那局長你認為中國的極音數飛彈這幾年突飛猛進,靠的是跟俄羅斯交換的技術還是偷他的技術還是中國自己的技術上面的突破呢?\n謝謝局長,那我有請國防部副部長\n早安好\n副部長你知道最近我們台灣的國民都非常關注台灣與美國採購裝備上面的高效能反裝甲的飛彈的交付的進度所以今天本席想要請教一下副部長就是先前我們跟美國買的托式飛彈原本預定是6年前就要開始交貨了但是雖然載台的漢馬車已經完成交貨但為什麼飛彈拖到現在還是一旦未交呢是大約是要拖到什麼時候呢\n各位我剛才已經 王委員 王朝偉剛才也問過了那因為我們在 美方在測試的時候最後出場的時候 試射的時候他有很多系統上的瑕疵 所以他重新組合了那美方也保證在今年 年底之前會把所有的彈都運送到台灣\n因為我記得顧部長在5個月前他就已經說過說今年年底一定會完成嘛是完成全部的交貨對但是拖到現在我覺得說因為現在已經11月了是還交不出來然後可能又好像現在是11月然後如果真的按承諾如果交是不是有剩下\n你看我們現在總共是要交1700枚嘛然後這樣的話如果是說現在都還沒有交出來還是現在已經交多少枚了呢那真的可以你這樣分析你覺得真的可以順利完成交貨嗎?幫委員這個因為美方的保證我想我也相信他們因為基於我們雙方的默契我這邊不做贅述但是我相信在今年年底我們Toros-2B的這個廢彈會全速運到台灣\n那請國防部就是一定要緊追著我們後續的裝備的交付的進度因為如果裝備的交付有一些拖延的問題的話是不是請國防部要主動的積極的爭取也要主動的揭露因為不要那麼被動因為不要每次都是我們發現然後我們一直在追然後其實主動揭露的話其實對國軍的形象反而是有加分的因為主動揭露的話是不是也表示你國防部對裝備採購這是一個負責任的態度\n那國防部做得到嗎?報委員我想軍售的部分因為牽扯到我們在合約的管理上的問題那有時候揭露這件事情我們有時候在合約上管理上來講還是必須尊重那至於說進度的揭露我們也希望讓透明化讓國人知道因為是公開預算我們當然希望我們主動會告訴國人那我想這個也是提醒美方我相信不只是我們\n委員在美國參訪的時候也了解就是說這個進度他們也想趕上來但是委員去了以後我相信進度會更快為什麼因為督促的管道非常多那包含我們今天在駐美軍事代表團他會時時刻刻定到那個進度那我們國防部的管制他是非常嚴謹的所以委員你去參訪完了以後發現到這一進度事實上有很多的關卡在罷官\n那至於說如何去揭露我想公共訊息的發布我們也會討論未來跟美方在軍售上來講我們去協商如何做不是只有我發布我認為在軍售國來講美方也應該共同跟我來發布這個訊息為什麼他會落後的原因我想原廠他也必須要說明這個是對一個國際的軍售的保證我想這個都是我們在未來\n在委員提醒之下我們如何去精進我們在這個交受進度上管制上來講如何去跟美方去配合來辦理謝謝委員提醒因為這是美國對台灣的軍售延遲交付的狀況真的是蠻嚴重的啦所以我還是想說我們應該\n﹚林憶君﹚\n海軍目前有沒有下一代主力的作戰艦的規劃呢?而且之前蔡英文總統也提出12項國艦國造的計畫,這個會不會完成呢?還是政策有沒有調整呢?\n這個是我們海軍在既定的新型型防艦新一代型防艦事實上來講它是非常成功的那我們後續有後續艦的第二批的這個建設那同樣的防空型和反潛型的我們原型艦也在115年會做出來這些都蠻\n我相信我們海軍在未來規劃上來講因應這個我們未來的這個敵情的威脅他會持續在建案那這對我們在未來的戰力上來講是有所提升我想這個都是海軍在未來來講他們都很有在系統上規劃我們也核定了他們未來的造艦計劃我想這個是既定的計劃都在依照我們的進度的計劃裡面來執行\n據我了解12項的國建國造的計畫的核心除了潛艦之外最重要的應該就是政海計畫跟下一代的主力艦但是聽說中科院研發的雷達跟作戰的系統似乎又達不到要求所以挪動了整個原預算降階去做了輕型的\n那請教一下副部長,就是國防部這樣的計畫到底是什麼呢?是放棄了升級海軍作戰艦了嗎?還是放棄了補給線呢?準備讓共軍來封鎖台灣了呢?\n當然不是。包括我想我們的艦艇的配置,重型的一級艦、二級艦、三級艦,都是有它的所有計畫管制的其成。那輕型巡防艦只是因應我們現代的灰色地帶衝突的洗腦增加了,加上海巡的戰力,那我們如何來做搭配,因為輕型巡防艦是要\n好 謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.923 --> 00:02.344\n謝謝主席有請國安局長我想先請問一下局長台灣現在跟俄羅斯的關係應該是這幾年來最惡劣的時候吧\n\n00:21.088 --> 00:38.175\n對,我們事實上在幾年前已經終止了跟俄國全面的貿易關係那另外在俄烏戰爭之後那也因為台灣基於價值理念提供烏克蘭很多的一個援助包括人道的援助那俄國對這方面的台灣的援助也有一些維持所以也把台灣列為不友好的國家\n\n00:39.954 --> 01:05.211\n從美國彭博社這個禮拜的新聞報導有看到發現今年十月份的台灣石化工業進行創紀錄的俄羅斯的石腦油本席在根據經濟部的統計所以俄羅斯是現在台灣第三大煤炭的進口的來源國也是第六大天然氣進口的來源這說明了我們台灣對俄羅斯其實有一定的人員上面的依賴\n\n01:06.111 --> 01:24.294\n再加上俄羅斯跟中國現在是所謂的全面戰略協作的合夥伴的關係,那是不是表示,俄羅斯如果配合中國對台灣實施制裁,那我們是不是可能會被中國禁止我們台灣的龍魚產品出口到中國?\n\n01:25.095 --> 01:44.790\n對台灣的影響會更大呢?那國安局有沒有分析那俄羅斯在哪些狀況之下會減少甚至停止對台灣石化原料的供應那國安局內部的兵推有沒有做過這樣的想定呢?對,我們國安單位是有在提醒相關的公營或國營企業在進行相關的能源採購應該也要考慮到相關地緣政治的問題\n\n01:49.754 --> 01:52.596\n希望國安局之後的兵推還是要繼續設想這種可能發生的想法\n\n02:13.868 --> 02:38.363\n那接下來我再問一下就是北韓上個禮拜才試射一枚火星19的洲際的飛彈然後11月4號又朝東部的海域發射好幾枚的飛彈那從射程上面來看應該至少是中程彈道的飛彈洲際洲際這是洲際彈道飛彈對那請問一下那局長你認為北韓當局的政治的目的是什麼呢\n\n02:39.263 --> 03:06.842\n對,委員剛有提到,就圖面上所顯示的就10月31號北韓發射的火星19型的洲際彈道飛彈那正如委員所提到的,這一次的飛彈它飛行的高度有到7600公里然後飛行的時間有到85分鐘那這是北韓所有歷史上測試的飛彈飛行的距離跟時間最長的一次那我們認為在這時間點,會有這個火星19飛彈的試射主要的目的有幾個部分,第一個部分\n\n03:07.022 --> 03:07.222\n主席\n\n03:26.863 --> 03:41.537\n希望美國在美韓聯合軍演應該要更所謂的減少那同時在對於北韓的制裁也應該要放鬆所以北韓是透過這些內外因素的評估那我們認為才會有這個美國大選階段的一個飛彈試射的一個動作\n\n03:43.109 --> 04:08.324\n剛才說到了北韓的飛彈,那局長你有沒有發現,就是俄烏戰爭爆發之前,然後北韓有好幾年的時間,其實在長城飛彈上面的技術好像都是遇到了瓶頸,但是過去這一年中,北韓在發射的技術方面,無論是衛星還是長城的飛彈,失敗率好像都是大幅的下降,那是不是會印證俄羅斯可能有提供北韓飛彈技術上面的猜想呢?\n\n04:08.564 --> 04:25.951\n有,這部分確實有這樣的一個關聯性那因為在過去這一年多的時間那經過雙方的一個互動在大概去年11月我們就注意到委員所講的北韓四射的導彈還有衛星火箭它的成功率有提高\n\n04:26.591 --> 04:39.665\n我們相信這背後應該是由俄國在技術上提供的援助那這個過程當中除了北韓接收到俄國提供的火箭技術以外北韓也供應了非常多的砲彈給俄國在俄烏戰場來使用那從公開的資訊來看北韓已經運送大概有13000多個貨櫃\n\n04:44.850 --> 05:02.967\n提供的都是軍需品給俄國．所以他們雙方基於這樣各取所需的情況之下．俄國提供北韓精元跟導彈技術．那北韓提供俄國相關的一個軍需用品．跟目前的士兵到俄國去．所以有看到雙方的戰略合作關係．似乎越來越緊密\n\n05:03.946 --> 05:31.641\n如果是說照這樣的推測的話這樣俄羅斯用人員出口跟輸出飛彈的技術換取北韓的軍事的資源的話那中國的話也是私底下可能會提供俄羅斯資源加上我們觀察到中國這幾年有一個極音速的飛彈發展有一個突飛猛進的趨勢那我們一般會推測中國是不是用軍事資源的交換方面俄羅斯的飛彈的技術呢但是今年出的路透社的報導就是\n\n05:32.682 --> 05:54.131\n俄羅斯前後也逮捕了好幾位極音數飛彈的相關的科學家,罪名大概都是跟洩漏資訊的機密給中國有關。那局長你認為中國的極音數飛彈這幾年突飛猛進,靠的是跟俄羅斯交換的技術還是偷他的技術還是中國自己的技術上面的突破呢?\n\n05:54.411 --> 05:54.851\n謝謝局長,那我有請國防部副部長\n\n06:28.158 --> 06:28.361\n早安好\n\n06:30.214 --> 06:57.431\n副部長你知道最近我們台灣的國民都非常關注台灣與美國採購裝備上面的高效能反裝甲的飛彈的交付的進度所以今天本席想要請教一下副部長就是先前我們跟美國買的托式飛彈原本預定是6年前就要開始交貨了但是雖然載台的漢馬車已經完成交貨但為什麼飛彈拖到現在還是一旦未交呢是大約是要拖到什麼時候呢\n\n06:58.251 --> 07:16.425\n各位我剛才已經王委員王朝偉剛才也問過了那因為我們在美方在測試的時候最後出場的時候試射的時候他有很多系統上的瑕疵所以他重新組合了那美方也保證在今年年底之前會把所有的彈都運送到台灣\n\n07:17.813 --> 07:36.767\n因為我記得顧部長在5個月前他就已經說過說今年年底一定會完成嘛是完成全部的交貨對但是拖到現在我覺得說因為現在已經11月了是還交不出來然後可能又好像現在是11月然後如果真的按承諾如果交是不是有剩下\n\n07:37.648 --> 08:05.299\n你看我們現在總共是要交1700枚嘛然後這樣的話如果是說現在都還沒有交出來還是現在已經交多少枚了呢那真的可以你這樣分析你覺得真的可以順利完成交貨嗎?幫委員這個因為美方的保證我想我也相信他們因為基於我們雙方的默契我這邊不做贅述但是我相信在今年年底我們Toros-2B的這個廢彈會全速運到台灣\n\n08:06.521 --> 08:31.568\n那請國防部就是一定要緊追著我們後續的裝備的交付的進度因為如果裝備的交付有一些拖延的問題的話是不是請國防部要主動的積極的爭取也要主動的揭露因為不要那麼被動因為不要每次都是我們發現然後我們一直在追然後其實主動揭露的話其實對國軍的形象反而是有加分的因為主動揭露的話是不是也表示你國防部對裝備採購這是一個負責任的態度\n\n08:35.029 --> 08:50.632\n那國防部做得到嗎?報委員我想軍售的部分因為牽扯到我們在合約的管理上的問題那有時候揭露這件事情我們有時候在合約上管理上來講還是必須尊重那至於說進度的揭露我們也希望讓透明化讓國人知道因為是公開預算我們當然希望我們主動會告訴國人那我想這個也是提醒美方我相信不只是我們\n\n09:04.454 --> 09:29.489\n委員在美國參訪的時候也了解就是說這個進度他們也想趕上來但是委員去了以後我相信進度會更快為什麼因為督促的管道非常多那包含我們今天在駐美軍事代表團他會時時刻刻定到那個進度那我們國防部的管制他是非常嚴謹的所以委員你去參訪完了以後發現到這一進度事實上有很多的關卡在罷官\n\n09:30.109 --> 09:51.897\n那至於說如何去揭露我想公共訊息的發布我們也會討論未來跟美方在軍售上來講我們去協商如何做不是只有我發布我認為在軍售國來講美方也應該共同跟我來發布這個訊息為什麼他會落後的原因我想原廠他也必須要說明這個是對一個國際的軍售的保證我想這個都是我們在未來\n\n09:53.377 --> 10:08.607\n在委員提醒之下我們如何去精進我們在這個交受進度上管制上來講如何去跟美方去配合來辦理謝謝委員提醒因為這是美國對台灣的軍售延遲交付的狀況真的是蠻嚴重的啦所以我還是想說我們應該\n\n10:09.207 --> 10:09.247\n﹚林憶君﹚\n\n10:24.457 --> 10:27.037\n海軍目前有沒有下一代主力的作戰艦的規劃呢?而且之前蔡英文總統也提出12項國艦國造的計畫,這個會不會完成呢?還是政策有沒有調整呢?\n\n10:53.035 --> 11:06.643\n這個是我們海軍在既定的新型型防艦新一代型防艦事實上來講它是非常成功的那我們後續有後續艦的第二批的這個建設那同樣的防空型和反潛型的我們原型艦也在115年會做出來這些都蠻\n\n11:10.785 --> 11:36.110\n我相信我們海軍在未來規劃上來講因應這個我們未來的這個敵情的威脅他會持續在建案那這對我們在未來的戰力上來講是有所提升我想這個都是海軍在未來來講他們都很有在系統上規劃我們也核定了他們未來的造艦計劃我想這個是既定的計劃都在依照我們的進度的計劃裡面來執行\n\n11:38.299 --> 11:58.456\n據我了解12項的國建國造的計畫的核心除了潛艦之外最重要的應該就是政海計畫跟下一代的主力艦但是聽說中科院研發的雷達跟作戰的系統似乎又達不到要求所以挪動了整個原預算降階去做了輕型的\n\n11:59.116 --> 12:01.898\n那請教一下副部長,就是國防部這樣的計畫到底是什麼呢?是放棄了升級海軍作戰艦了嗎?還是放棄了補給線呢?準備讓共軍來封鎖台灣了呢?\n\n12:25.230 --> 12:46.332\n當然不是。包括我想我們的艦艇的配置,重型的一級艦、二級艦、三級艦,都是有它的所有計畫管制的其成。那輕型巡防艦只是因應我們現代的灰色地帶衝突的洗腦增加了,加上海巡的戰力,那我們如何來做搭配,因為輕型巡防艦是要\n\n12:47.273 --> 12:47.733\n好謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.923,"end":2.344,"text":"謝謝主席 有請國安局長我想先請問一下局長 台灣現在跟俄羅斯的關係應該是這幾年來最惡劣的時候吧"},{"start":21.088,"end":38.175,"text":"對,我們事實上在幾年前已經終止了跟俄國全面的貿易關係那另外在俄烏戰爭之後那也因為台灣基於價值理念提供烏克蘭很多的一個援助包括人道的援助那俄國對這方面的台灣的援助也有一些維持所以也把台灣列為不友好的國家"},{"start":39.954,"end":65.211,"text":"從美國彭博社這個禮拜的新聞報導有看到發現今年十月份的台灣石化工業進行創紀錄的俄羅斯的石腦油本席在根據經濟部的統計所以俄羅斯是現在台灣第三大煤炭的進口的來源國也是第六大天然氣進口的來源這說明了我們台灣對俄羅斯其實有一定的人員上面的依賴"},{"start":66.111,"end":84.294,"text":"再加上俄羅斯跟中國現在是所謂的全面戰略協作的合夥伴的關係,那是不是表示,俄羅斯如果配合中國對台灣實施制裁,那我們是不是可能會被中國禁止我們台灣的龍魚產品出口到中國?"},{"start":85.095,"end":104.79,"text":"對台灣的影響會更大呢?那國安局有沒有分析那俄羅斯在哪些狀況之下會減少甚至停止對台灣石化原料的供應那國安局內部的兵推有沒有做過這樣的想定呢?對,我們國安單位是有在提醒相關的公營或國營企業在進行相關的能源採購應該也要考慮到相關地緣政治的問題"},{"start":109.754,"end":112.596,"text":"希望國安局之後的兵推還是要繼續設想這種可能發生的想法"},{"start":133.868,"end":158.363,"text":"那接下來我再問一下就是北韓上個禮拜才試射一枚火星19的洲際的飛彈然後11月4號又朝東部的海域發射好幾枚的飛彈那從射程上面來看應該至少是中程彈道的飛彈洲際洲際這是洲際彈道飛彈對那請問一下那局長你認為北韓當局的政治的目的是什麼呢"},{"start":159.263,"end":186.842,"text":"對,委員剛有提到,就圖面上所顯示的就10月31號北韓發射的火星19型的洲際彈道飛彈那正如委員所提到的,這一次的飛彈它飛行的高度有到7600公里然後飛行的時間有到85分鐘那這是北韓所有歷史上測試的飛彈飛行的距離跟時間最長的一次那我們認為在這時間點,會有這個火星19飛彈的試射主要的目的有幾個部分,第一個部分"},{"start":187.022,"end":187.222,"text":"主席"},{"start":206.863,"end":221.537,"text":"希望美國在美韓聯合軍演應該要更所謂的減少那同時在對於北韓的制裁也應該要放鬆所以北韓是透過這些內外因素的評估那我們認為才會有這個美國大選階段的一個飛彈試射的一個動作"},{"start":223.109,"end":248.324,"text":"剛才說到了北韓的飛彈,那局長你有沒有發現,就是俄烏戰爭爆發之前,然後北韓有好幾年的時間,其實在長城飛彈上面的技術好像都是遇到了瓶頸,但是過去這一年中,北韓在發射的技術方面,無論是衛星還是長城的飛彈,失敗率好像都是大幅的下降,那是不是會印證俄羅斯可能有提供北韓飛彈技術上面的猜想呢?"},{"start":248.564,"end":265.951,"text":"有,這部分確實有這樣的一個關聯性那因為在過去這一年多的時間那經過雙方的一個互動在大概去年11月我們就注意到委員所講的北韓四射的導彈還有衛星火箭它的成功率有提高"},{"start":266.591,"end":279.665,"text":"我們相信這背後應該是由俄國在技術上提供的援助那這個過程當中除了北韓接收到俄國提供的火箭技術以外北韓也供應了非常多的砲彈給俄國在俄烏戰場來使用那從公開的資訊來看北韓已經運送大概有13000多個貨櫃"},{"start":284.85,"end":302.967,"text":"提供的都是軍需品給俄國．所以他們雙方基於這樣各取所需的情況之下．俄國提供北韓精元跟導彈技術．那北韓提供俄國相關的一個軍需用品．跟目前的士兵到俄國去．所以有看到雙方的戰略合作關係．似乎越來越緊密"},{"start":303.946,"end":331.641,"text":"如果是說照這樣的推測的話這樣俄羅斯用人員出口跟輸出飛彈的技術換取北韓的軍事的資源的話那中國的話也是私底下可能會提供俄羅斯資源加上我們觀察到中國這幾年有一個極音速的飛彈發展有一個突飛猛進的趨勢那我們一般會推測中國是不是用軍事資源的交換方面俄羅斯的飛彈的技術呢但是今年出的路透社的報導就是"},{"start":332.682,"end":354.131,"text":"俄羅斯前後也逮捕了好幾位極音數飛彈的相關的科學家,罪名大概都是跟洩漏資訊的機密給中國有關。那局長你認為中國的極音數飛彈這幾年突飛猛進,靠的是跟俄羅斯交換的技術還是偷他的技術還是中國自己的技術上面的突破呢?"},{"start":354.411,"end":354.851,"text":"謝謝局長,那我有請國防部副部長"},{"start":388.158,"end":388.361,"text":"早安好"},{"start":390.214,"end":417.431,"text":"副部長你知道最近我們台灣的國民都非常關注台灣與美國採購裝備上面的高效能反裝甲的飛彈的交付的進度所以今天本席想要請教一下副部長就是先前我們跟美國買的托式飛彈原本預定是6年前就要開始交貨了但是雖然載台的漢馬車已經完成交貨但為什麼飛彈拖到現在還是一旦未交呢是大約是要拖到什麼時候呢"},{"start":418.251,"end":436.425,"text":"各位我剛才已經 王委員 王朝偉剛才也問過了那因為我們在 美方在測試的時候最後出場的時候 試射的時候他有很多系統上的瑕疵 所以他重新組合了那美方也保證在今年 年底之前會把所有的彈都運送到台灣"},{"start":437.813,"end":456.767,"text":"因為我記得顧部長在5個月前他就已經說過說今年年底一定會完成嘛是完成全部的交貨對但是拖到現在我覺得說因為現在已經11月了是還交不出來然後可能又好像現在是11月然後如果真的按承諾如果交是不是有剩下"},{"start":457.648,"end":485.299,"text":"你看我們現在總共是要交1700枚嘛然後這樣的話如果是說現在都還沒有交出來還是現在已經交多少枚了呢那真的可以你這樣分析你覺得真的可以順利完成交貨嗎?幫委員這個因為美方的保證我想我也相信他們因為基於我們雙方的默契我這邊不做贅述但是我相信在今年年底我們Toros-2B的這個廢彈會全速運到台灣"},{"start":486.521,"end":511.568,"text":"那請國防部就是一定要緊追著我們後續的裝備的交付的進度因為如果裝備的交付有一些拖延的問題的話是不是請國防部要主動的積極的爭取也要主動的揭露因為不要那麼被動因為不要每次都是我們發現然後我們一直在追然後其實主動揭露的話其實對國軍的形象反而是有加分的因為主動揭露的話是不是也表示你國防部對裝備採購這是一個負責任的態度"},{"start":515.029,"end":530.632,"text":"那國防部做得到嗎?報委員我想軍售的部分因為牽扯到我們在合約的管理上的問題那有時候揭露這件事情我們有時候在合約上管理上來講還是必須尊重那至於說進度的揭露我們也希望讓透明化讓國人知道因為是公開預算我們當然希望我們主動會告訴國人那我想這個也是提醒美方我相信不只是我們"},{"start":544.454,"end":569.489,"text":"委員在美國參訪的時候也了解就是說這個進度他們也想趕上來但是委員去了以後我相信進度會更快為什麼因為督促的管道非常多那包含我們今天在駐美軍事代表團他會時時刻刻定到那個進度那我們國防部的管制他是非常嚴謹的所以委員你去參訪完了以後發現到這一進度事實上有很多的關卡在罷官"},{"start":570.109,"end":591.897,"text":"那至於說如何去揭露我想公共訊息的發布我們也會討論未來跟美方在軍售上來講我們去協商如何做不是只有我發布我認為在軍售國來講美方也應該共同跟我來發布這個訊息為什麼他會落後的原因我想原廠他也必須要說明這個是對一個國際的軍售的保證我想這個都是我們在未來"},{"start":593.377,"end":608.607,"text":"在委員提醒之下我們如何去精進我們在這個交受進度上管制上來講如何去跟美方去配合來辦理謝謝委員提醒因為這是美國對台灣的軍售延遲交付的狀況真的是蠻嚴重的啦所以我還是想說我們應該"},{"start":609.207,"end":609.247,"text":"﹚林憶君﹚"},{"start":624.457,"end":627.037,"text":"海軍目前有沒有下一代主力的作戰艦的規劃呢?而且之前蔡英文總統也提出12項國艦國造的計畫,這個會不會完成呢?還是政策有沒有調整呢?"},{"start":653.035,"end":666.643,"text":"這個是我們海軍在既定的新型型防艦新一代型防艦事實上來講它是非常成功的那我們後續有後續艦的第二批的這個建設那同樣的防空型和反潛型的我們原型艦也在115年會做出來這些都蠻"},{"start":670.785,"end":696.11,"text":"我相信我們海軍在未來規劃上來講因應這個我們未來的這個敵情的威脅他會持續在建案那這對我們在未來的戰力上來講是有所提升我想這個都是海軍在未來來講他們都很有在系統上規劃我們也核定了他們未來的造艦計劃我想這個是既定的計劃都在依照我們的進度的計劃裡面來執行"},{"start":698.299,"end":718.456,"text":"據我了解12項的國建國造的計畫的核心除了潛艦之外最重要的應該就是政海計畫跟下一代的主力艦但是聽說中科院研發的雷達跟作戰的系統似乎又達不到要求所以挪動了整個原預算降階去做了輕型的"},{"start":719.116,"end":721.898,"text":"那請教一下副部長,就是國防部這樣的計畫到底是什麼呢?是放棄了升級海軍作戰艦了嗎?還是放棄了補給線呢?準備讓共軍來封鎖台灣了呢?"},{"start":745.23,"end":766.332,"text":"當然不是。包括我想我們的艦艇的配置,重型的一級艦、二級艦、三級艦,都是有它的所有計畫管制的其成。那輕型巡防艦只是因應我們現代的灰色地帶衝突的洗腦增加了,加上海巡的戰力,那我們如何來做搭配,因為輕型巡防艦是要"},{"start":767.273,"end":767.733,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":355,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（10時29分）謝謝主席，有請國安局局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：召委好。"],["林委員憶君：先請問局長，臺灣現在跟俄羅斯的關係應該是這幾年來最惡劣的時候吧？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，事實上我們在幾年前已經終止跟俄國全面的貿易關係，另外，在俄烏戰爭之後，也因為臺灣基於價值理念提供烏克蘭很多的援助，包括人道援助，俄國對臺灣這方面的援助也有一些微詞，所以也把臺灣列為不友好的國家。"],["林委員憶君：從美國彭博社這個禮拜的新聞報導看到，今年10月份臺灣石化工業自俄羅斯進口創紀錄的石油腦，本席根據經濟部統計，俄羅斯是現在臺灣第三大煤炭進口來源國，也是第六大天然氣進口來源國，這說明了臺灣對俄羅斯其實有一定能源上面的依賴，再加上俄羅斯跟中國現在是所謂的全面戰略協作夥伴關係，是不是表示俄羅斯如果配合中國對臺灣實施制裁，是不是可能會比被中國禁止臺灣的農漁產品出口到中國，對臺灣的影響會更大呢？國安局有沒有分析？俄羅斯在哪些狀況之下會減少，甚至停止對臺灣石化原料的供應？國安局內部的兵推有沒有做過這樣的想定呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們國安單位是有提醒相關的公營或國營企業在進行相關的能源採購，應該也要考慮到相關地緣政治的問題，不過我們初步的理解是，有一些契約可能之前就已經簽訂了，這個部分可能還有契約相關法律的評估。另外一方面就是民間企業，怎麼樣約制民間企業可能有這樣的合作行為，也是另外一個評估的重點。"],["林委員憶君：那很好，希望國安局之後的兵推還是要繼續設想這種可能發生的想定。"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員憶君：接下來，北韓上個禮拜才試射一枚火星─19洲際飛彈，11月4日又朝東部海域發射好幾枚飛彈，從射程上面來看，應該至少是中程彈道飛彈。"],["蔡局長明彥：洲際，這一次是洲際彈道飛彈。"],["林委員憶君：請問局長，你認為北韓當局的政治目的是什麼呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：委員剛剛有提到，圖片上所顯示的就是10月31日北韓發射的火星─19型洲際彈道飛彈，正如委員所提到的，這一次飛彈的飛行高度有到7,600公里，飛行的時間有到85分鐘，這是北韓歷史上所有測試的飛彈飛行距離及時間最長的一次。我們認為在這個時間點會有火星─19飛彈的試射，主要的目的有幾個部分，第一個部分當然就是在鞏固北韓內部的團結跟內聚力。第二部分就是在對外的部分，希望在美國大選期間來展示，讓美國知道北韓已經擁有這種核導的地位，也就是核武跟導彈的能力。同時在美國新政府上臺之後，可以以這個當籌碼，希望美國在美韓聯合軍演應該要更減少，同時在對於北韓的制裁也應該要放鬆，所以北韓是透過這些內外因素的評估，我們認為才會有美國大選階段的飛彈試射動作。"],["林委員憶君：剛才說到了北韓的飛彈，局長，你有沒有發現俄烏戰爭爆發之前，其實北韓有好幾年時間在長程飛彈上面的技術好像都遇到了瓶頸，但是過去這一年中，北韓在發射技術方面，無論是衛星還是長程飛彈，失敗率好像都大幅下降，這是不是印證俄羅斯可能有提供北韓飛彈技術上面的猜想呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，這部分確實有這樣的一個關聯性，因為在過去這一年多的時間，經過雙方的互動，大概在去年10月、11月我們就有注意到委員所講的，北韓試射的導彈及衛星火箭的成功率有提高，我們相信這背後應該是有俄國在技術上提供援助。在這個過程當中，除了北韓接受俄國提供的火箭技術以外，北韓也供應了非常多的砲彈給俄國，在俄烏戰場來使用，而且從公開的資訊來看，北韓已經運送大概一萬三千多個貨櫃，都是提供軍需品給俄國，所以他們雙方基於各取所需的情況之下，俄國提供北韓金援及導彈技術，北韓提供俄國相關的軍需用品和目前的士兵到俄國去，所以有看到雙方的戰略合作關係似乎越來越緊密。"],["林委員憶君：如果按照這樣的推測，俄羅斯用能源出口和輸出飛彈的技術換取北韓的軍事支援，中國私底下可能也會提供俄羅斯支援，加上我們觀察到中國這幾年有極音速飛彈，發展有突飛猛進的趨勢，我們一般會推測中國是不是用軍事支援交換俄羅斯的飛彈技術呢？但是今年初路透社報導，俄羅斯前後也逮捕了好幾位極音速飛彈的相關科學家，罪名大概都是跟洩漏機密資訊給中國有關。局長，你認為中國的極音速飛彈這幾年突飛猛進，靠的是跟俄羅斯交換技術還是偷它的技術，還是中國自己技術上面的突破呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：應該都有，因為中國對於極音速導彈的發展非常的重視，所以他們跟俄國在軍事合作的部分，也都有提到相關一些科技交換的合作，但是俄國也希望能夠控制比較高度機敏的技術，所以才造成雙方一邊合作，但又彼此有一些猜忌跟提防，出現委員剛剛所描述的狀況。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝局長。有請國防部副部長。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：召委好。"],["林委員憶君：副部長，你知道最近我們臺灣的國民都非常關注，臺灣與美國採購裝備上面的高效能反裝甲飛彈的交付進度，所以今天本席想要請教一下副部長，先前我們跟美國買的拖式飛彈，原本預定是6年前就要開始交貨了，雖然載臺的悍馬車已經完成交貨，但為什麼飛彈拖到現在還是一彈未交呢？大約是要拖到什麼時候呢？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，王召委剛剛也問過了，因為美方在測試的時候、最後出廠的時候、試射的時候，它有很多系統上的瑕疵，所以它重新組合了，美方也保證在今年年底之前會把所有的彈都運送到臺灣。"],["林委員憶君：我記得顧部長在5個月前就已經說過，今年年底一定會完成全部交貨，但是拖到現在，我覺得因為現在已經11月了，還交不出來，如果真的按承諾，是不是有剩下……你看，我們現在總共是要交1,700枚嘛！這樣的話，如果現在都還沒有交出來，還是現在已經交多少枚了呢？這樣分析，你覺得真的可以順利完成交貨嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，因為美方的保證，我想我也相信他們，基於我們雙方的默契，我這邊不做贅述，但是我相信在今年年底，TOW-2B的飛彈會全數運到臺灣。"],["林委員憶君：好，請國防部一定要緊追著後續裝備的交付進度，因為如果裝備的交付有一些拖延的問題的話，是不是請國防或要主動積極的爭取，也要主動的揭露，不要那麼被動，不要每次都是我們發現，然後我們一直在追，其實主動揭露的話，對國軍的形象反而是有加分的，主動揭露的話，是不是也表示國防部對裝備採購是一個負責任的態度，國防部做得到嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，我想軍售的部分因為牽扯到我們在合約管理上的問題，有時候揭露這件事情，在合約上、管理上來講，還是必須尊重……"],["林委員憶君：對，我說的是進度，因為我們……"],["柏副部長鴻輝：至於說進度的揭露，我們也希望透明化，讓國人知道，因為是公開預算，我們當然希望主動告訴國人，我想這個也是提醒美方，我相信不只是我們，委員在美國參訪的時候也了解，他們也想趕上來這個進度，但是委員去了以後，我相信進度會更快，為什麼？因為督促的管道非常多，包含我們今天駐美軍事代表團，它會時時刻刻盯這個進度，我們國防部的管制是非常嚴謹的，所以委員你去參訪完了以後，會發現到這些進度事實上有很多的關卡在把關。至於說如何去揭露，我想公共訊息的發布，我們也會討論，未來跟美方在軍售上來講，我們去協商如何做……不是只有我發布，我認為在軍售國來講，美方也應該共同跟我發布這個訊息，為什麼它會落後的原因，我想原廠也必須要說明，這個是對國際軍售的保證，我想這個都是在委員的提醒之下，未來我們在交售進度上、管制上來講，如何去精進、如何去跟美方配合來辦理，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["林委員憶君：因為美國對臺灣軍售延遲交付的狀況，真的是蠻嚴重的，所以我才想說我們應該要持續跟美方爭取加快交付的進度。","再來，我再詢問一下副部長，有關海軍後續艦艇的議題，海軍輕型巡防艦防空型還有反潛型前天才開始安放在龍骨，看來進度好像還蠻順利的。但是國防部還有印象，本席在上個月質詢的時候，曾經有提到一級艦普遍都已經太老舊的問題，本席想要請教副部長，海軍目前有沒有下一代主力的作戰艦的規劃呢？而且之前蔡英文總統也提出12項國艦國造的計畫，這個會不會完成，還是政策有沒有調整呢？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，這個是我們海軍既定的新型巡防艦、新一代巡防艦，事實上來講它是非常成功的，我們後續也有後續艦第二批的建設，同樣的防空型和反潛型我們原型艦也在115年會做出來，這些都蠻合乎我們的要求和進度，我相信海軍在未來規劃上來講，因應我們未來敵情的威脅，它會持續在建案，這對我們在未來的戰力上來講，是有所提升的，未來海軍都有在系統上規劃，國防部也核定了他們未來的造艦計畫，我想這個是既定的計畫，都依照我們進度的計畫來執行。"],["林委員憶君：因為據我了解，12項國艦國造計畫的核心，除了潛艦之外，最重要的應該就是震海計畫跟下一代的主力艦，但是聽說中科院研發的雷達跟作戰系統，似乎又達不到要求，所以挪動了整個原預算，降階去做了輕型的巡防艦，問題是國防部如果想要用輕型的巡防艦去面對這種高強度的作戰，這樣是不是會有點太勉強了？是不是等於原本戰力空缺的問題還是存在呢？請教一下副部長，國防部這樣的計畫到底是什麼呢？是放棄了升級海軍作戰艦了嗎？還是放棄了補給線，準備讓共軍來封鎖臺灣了呢？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：當然不是，報告委員，我想我們艦艇的配置，重型的一級艦、二級艦、三級艦，都是有它的計畫管制期程，那輕型巡防艦只是因應我們現在灰色地帶衝突的襲擾增加了，加上海巡的戰力，我們如何來做搭配，因為輕型巡防艦是要能夠快速機動去對應這樣的灰色地帶衝突，輕型巡防艦有它的必要性，所以在這樣的調配情況下，我們未來所有艦艇的發展是用大型艦，一級艦、二級艦、三級艦來做調配，包含掃獵雷艦或者是佈雷艦，這些都是在整體規劃裡面，所以我們並沒有因為這樣子而忽略了造艦的計畫。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林憶君委員，副部長請回，謝謝。"],["主席（林委員憶君）：待會徐巧芯委員質詢完畢後，休息5分鐘。","接下來我們請洪申翰委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-10","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","洪申翰","馬文君","徐巧芯","賴士葆","林岱樺","黃仁","陳永康","劉建國","羅智強","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-11-06"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長、國防部部長報告「北韓派兵加入俄烏戰爭、南北韓衝突及日本眾議院改\n選，對台灣在地緣戰略地位之影響」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139301_00005"}}}