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\"end\": 279.484, \"score\": 0.009}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,032 --> 00:00:09,952\n主席謝謝,麻煩請經濟部長跟國發會主委請國發會留主委跟經濟部國部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,368 --> 00:00:43,408\n來,國部長我先請教因為菲律賓買電的這個議題本來以為這只是兩三個禮拜前你提出來那後來這兩天又持續延燒業界認為是說是因為台灣現在缺再生能源恐急所以說才會動到菲律賓去估算認為說你即便是把電纜、儲能跟電網輸送等根本不可能每電低於四塊這樣的一個價格\n\n3\n00:00:45,109 --> 00:01:01,956\n不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的一個訊息我對這種訊息我就是我是瞭解他的背景為什麼可以講這麼專業的問題我先請教一下菲律賓現在光電占他全國的百分之幾報告委員\n\n4\n00:01:03,567 --> 00:01:29,366\n菲律賓的光電是不具競爭力的菲律賓現在光電佔他們全國百分之幾?知道嗎?我不知道你不知道?菲律賓光電佔他全國發電的百分之2.4臺灣光電現在佔我們全國發電百分之幾?我們目前大概目標目前2024年今年現在此時此刻也不知道部長\n\n5\n00:01:30,902 --> 00:01:51,009\n你不知道菲律賓發電站、光電站他們全國發電百分之幾你也不知道台灣光電站全國發電百分之幾然後結果你現在意想天開認為是說我們可以去跟菲律賓買電報告委員我不是意想天開我今天也講得非常清楚在國際貿易理論裡面有一個非常重要的理論\n\n6\n00:01:52,515 --> 00:02:20,785\n有一個非常重要的理論叫做要素貶負理論來我先請教一下好沒關係來部長我等一下讓你講因為朝委的時間控制的嚴格我沒有辦法讓你講其他的我只要你直接回答問題菲律賓光電在百分之全國2.4那菲律賓光電因為我們台灣目前為止是禁止中國製的光電模組跟電池對不對那菲律賓的光電它大部分都是哪一個國家製作的\n\n7\n00:02:22,674 --> 00:02:45,367\n菲律賓大部分應該都是中國的吧中國的對所以我們現在是要去跟菲律賓買電以你的構想跟邏輯要跟菲律賓買電然後菲律賓用的是中國製的光電跟電池哇這種講法如果說看在我們偉大的民進黨政府抗中保台的立場上你根本就是中共同路人啊你根本就知匪了你知道嗎\n\n8\n00:02:46,707 --> 00:03:15,188\n你會想出這樣的想法菲律賓的光電如同你剛剛說的有80%以上甚至有人講說可能高90%都是大陸製的光電模組跟電池結果我們今天居然想是說我們台灣的本土產業或者是像國發會之前投入了30億投資綠能國家隊我們當初綠能國家隊不管是光電不管是風力發電我們是不是都是有很重要一個使命是要培植本土產業\n\n9\n00:03:15,928 --> 00:03:19,809\n希望讓我們臺灣的產業能夠有永續發展的可能性來諸位是不是就我了解次的是嘛然後結果現在有一個經濟部長講是說我們現在臺灣的本土產業不一定那麼重要我們到菲律賓去買電菲律賓買電的光電模組是中國大陸製的那請教一下我們是不是把我們的錢\n\n10\n00:03:38,956 --> 00:03:43,697\n來,主委我再請教因為國發會有能源政策跟相關的2050淨零碳排排路徑請教過去到現在討論能源政策也好或討論淨零碳排排路徑有沒有曾經討論過跟國外買電的可能性\n\n11\n00:04:04,810 --> 00:04:18,612\n在哪一次?白皮書裡面有沒有?目前是沒有沒有?所以你身後的這位部長過去到現在也沒有跟國發會有提過說我們可以跟國外買電是不是這樣?你是也是從新聞上看到的?\n\n12\n00:04:22,535 --> 00:04:39,484\n這是未來我們都在找多元理是不是從新聞上看到的第一次是從新聞看到的但是跟委員報告國家會主委證實了經濟部部長的這個想法沒有跟國發會討論過並且也是在新聞上看到的他不需要跟我討論因為人員政策是不需要跟我討論的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8032\t9952\t主席謝謝,麻煩請經濟部長跟國發會主委請國發會留主委跟經濟部國部長\n17368\t43408\t來,國部長我先請教因為菲律賓買電的這個議題本來以為這只是兩三個禮拜前你提出來那後來這兩天又持續延燒業界認為是說是因為台灣現在缺再生能源恐急所以說才會動到菲律賓去估算認為說你即便是把電纜、儲能跟電網輸送等根本不可能每電低於四塊這樣的一個價格\n45109\t61956\t不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的一個訊息我對這種訊息我就是我是瞭解他的背景為什麼可以講這麼專業的問題我先請教一下菲律賓現在光電占他全國的百分之幾報告委員\n63567\t89366\t菲律賓的光電是不具競爭力的菲律賓現在光電佔他們全國百分之幾?知道嗎?我不知道你不知道?菲律賓光電佔他全國發電的百分之2.4臺灣光電現在佔我們全國發電百分之幾?我們目前大概目標目前2024年今年現在此時此刻也不知道部長\n90902\t111009\t你不知道菲律賓發電站、光電站他們全國發電百分之幾你也不知道台灣光電站全國發電百分之幾然後結果你現在意想天開認為是說我們可以去跟菲律賓買電報告委員我不是意想天開我今天也講得非常清楚在國際貿易理論裡面有一個非常重要的理論\n112515\t140785\t有一個非常重要的理論叫做要素貶負理論來我先請教一下好沒關係來部長我等一下讓你講因為朝委的時間控制的嚴格我沒有辦法讓你講其他的我只要你直接回答問題菲律賓光電在百分之全國2.4那菲律賓光電因為我們台灣目前為止是禁止中國製的光電模組跟電池對不對那菲律賓的光電它大部分都是哪一個國家製作的\n142674\t165367\t菲律賓大部分應該都是中國的吧中國的對所以我們現在是要去跟菲律賓買電以你的構想跟邏輯要跟菲律賓買電然後菲律賓用的是中國製的光電跟電池哇 這種講法如果說看在我們偉大的民進黨政府抗中保台的立場上你根本就是中共同路人啊你根本就知匪了你知道嗎\n166707\t195188\t你會想出這樣的想法菲律賓的光電如同你剛剛說的有80%以上甚至有人講說可能高90%都是大陸製的光電模組跟電池結果我們今天居然想是說我們台灣的本土產業或者是像國發會之前投入了30億投資綠能國家隊我們當初綠能國家隊不管是光電不管是風力發電我們是不是都是有很重要一個使命是要培植本土產業\n195928\t199809\t希望讓我們臺灣的產業能夠有永續發展的可能性來 諸位是不是就我了解次的是嘛然後結果現在有一個經濟部長講是說我們現在臺灣的本土產業不一定那麼重要我們到菲律賓去買電菲律賓買電的光電模組是中國大陸製的那請教一下我們是不是把我們的錢\n218956\t223697\t來,主委我再請教因為國發會有能源政策跟相關的2050淨零碳排排路徑請教過去到現在討論能源政策也好或討論淨零碳排排路徑有沒有曾經討論過跟國外買電的可能性\n244810\t258612\t在哪一次?白皮書裡面有沒有?目前是沒有沒有?所以你身後的這位部長過去到現在也沒有跟國發會有提過說我們可以跟國外買電是不是這樣?你是也是從新聞上看到的?\n262535\t279484\t這是未來我們都在找多元理是不是從新聞上看到的第一次是從新聞看到的但是跟委員報告國家會主委證實了經濟部部長的這個想法沒有跟國發會討論過並且也是在新聞上看到的他不需要跟我討論因為人員政策是不需要跟我討論的\n","txt":"主席謝謝,麻煩請經濟部長跟國發會主委請國發會留主委跟經濟部國部長\n來,國部長我先請教因為菲律賓買電的這個議題本來以為這只是兩三個禮拜前你提出來那後來這兩天又持續延燒業界認為是說是因為台灣現在缺再生能源恐急所以說才會動到菲律賓去估算認為說你即便是把電纜、儲能跟電網輸送等根本不可能每電低於四塊這樣的一個價格\n不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的一個訊息我對這種訊息我就是我是瞭解他的背景為什麼可以講這麼專業的問題我先請教一下菲律賓現在光電占他全國的百分之幾報告委員\n菲律賓的光電是不具競爭力的菲律賓現在光電佔他們全國百分之幾?知道嗎?我不知道你不知道?菲律賓光電佔他全國發電的百分之2.4臺灣光電現在佔我們全國發電百分之幾?我們目前大概目標目前2024年今年現在此時此刻也不知道部長\n你不知道菲律賓發電站、光電站他們全國發電百分之幾你也不知道台灣光電站全國發電百分之幾然後結果你現在意想天開認為是說我們可以去跟菲律賓買電報告委員我不是意想天開我今天也講得非常清楚在國際貿易理論裡面有一個非常重要的理論\n有一個非常重要的理論叫做要素貶負理論來我先請教一下好沒關係來部長我等一下讓你講因為朝委的時間控制的嚴格我沒有辦法讓你講其他的我只要你直接回答問題菲律賓光電在百分之全國2.4那菲律賓光電因為我們台灣目前為止是禁止中國製的光電模組跟電池對不對那菲律賓的光電它大部分都是哪一個國家製作的\n菲律賓大部分應該都是中國的吧中國的對所以我們現在是要去跟菲律賓買電以你的構想跟邏輯要跟菲律賓買電然後菲律賓用的是中國製的光電跟電池哇 這種講法如果說看在我們偉大的民進黨政府抗中保台的立場上你根本就是中共同路人啊你根本就知匪了你知道嗎\n你會想出這樣的想法菲律賓的光電如同你剛剛說的有80%以上甚至有人講說可能高90%都是大陸製的光電模組跟電池結果我們今天居然想是說我們台灣的本土產業或者是像國發會之前投入了30億投資綠能國家隊我們當初綠能國家隊不管是光電不管是風力發電我們是不是都是有很重要一個使命是要培植本土產業\n希望讓我們臺灣的產業能夠有永續發展的可能性來 諸位是不是就我了解次的是嘛然後結果現在有一個經濟部長講是說我們現在臺灣的本土產業不一定那麼重要我們到菲律賓去買電菲律賓買電的光電模組是中國大陸製的那請教一下我們是不是把我們的錢\n來,主委我再請教因為國發會有能源政策跟相關的2050淨零碳排排路徑請教過去到現在討論能源政策也好或討論淨零碳排排路徑有沒有曾經討論過跟國外買電的可能性\n在哪一次?白皮書裡面有沒有?目前是沒有沒有?所以你身後的這位部長過去到現在也沒有跟國發會有提過說我們可以跟國外買電是不是這樣?你是也是從新聞上看到的?\n這是未來我們都在找多元理是不是從新聞上看到的第一次是從新聞看到的但是跟委員報告國家會主委證實了經濟部部長的這個想法沒有跟國發會討論過並且也是在新聞上看到的他不需要跟我討論因為人員政策是不需要跟我討論的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.032 --> 00:09.952\n主席謝謝,麻煩請經濟部長跟國發會主委請國發會留主委跟經濟部國部長\n\n00:17.368 --> 00:43.408\n來,國部長我先請教因為菲律賓買電的這個議題本來以為這只是兩三個禮拜前你提出來那後來這兩天又持續延燒業界認為是說是因為台灣現在缺再生能源恐急所以說才會動到菲律賓去估算認為說你即便是把電纜、儲能跟電網輸送等根本不可能每電低於四塊這樣的一個價格\n\n00:45.109 --> 01:01.956\n不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的一個訊息我對這種訊息我就是我是瞭解他的背景為什麼可以講這麼專業的問題我先請教一下菲律賓現在光電占他全國的百分之幾報告委員\n\n01:03.567 --> 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這種講法如果說看在我們偉大的民進黨政府抗中保台的立場上你根本就是中共同路人啊你根本就知匪了你知道嗎"},{"start":166.707,"end":195.188,"text":"你會想出這樣的想法菲律賓的光電如同你剛剛說的有80%以上甚至有人講說可能高90%都是大陸製的光電模組跟電池結果我們今天居然想是說我們台灣的本土產業或者是像國發會之前投入了30億投資綠能國家隊我們當初綠能國家隊不管是光電不管是風力發電我們是不是都是有很重要一個使命是要培植本土產業"},{"start":195.928,"end":199.809,"text":"希望讓我們臺灣的產業能夠有永續發展的可能性來 諸位是不是就我了解次的是嘛然後結果現在有一個經濟部長講是說我們現在臺灣的本土產業不一定那麼重要我們到菲律賓去買電菲律賓買電的光電模組是中國大陸製的那請教一下我們是不是把我們的錢"},{"start":218.956,"end":223.697,"text":"來,主委我再請教因為國發會有能源政策跟相關的2050淨零碳排排路徑請教過去到現在討論能源政策也好或討論淨零碳排排路徑有沒有曾經討論過跟國外買電的可能性"},{"start":244.81,"end":258.612,"text":"在哪一次?白皮書裡面有沒有?目前是沒有沒有?所以你身後的這位部長過去到現在也沒有跟國發會有提過說我們可以跟國外買電是不是這樣?你是也是從新聞上看到的?"},{"start":262.535,"end":279.484,"text":"這是未來我們都在找多元理是不是從新聞上看到的第一次是從新聞看到的但是跟委員報告國家會主委證實了經濟部部長的這個想法沒有跟國發會討論過並且也是在新聞上看到的他不需要跟我討論因為人員政策是不需要跟我討論的"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":999,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時50分）謝謝主席，麻煩請經濟部長跟國發會主委。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委跟經濟部郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：我先請教郭部長，菲律賓買電的這個議題，本來以為這只是兩、三個禮拜前你提出來，後來這兩天又持續延燒，業界認為是因為臺灣現在缺再生能源孔急，所以說才會動到菲律賓去，估算後認為即便是把電纜、儲能跟電網輸送等……根本不可能每度電低於4塊這樣的價格，不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的訊息？"],["郭部長智輝：我對這種訊息，我就是去了解它的背景，為什麼可以講這麼專業的問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：我先請教一下，現在光電占菲律賓全國的百分之幾？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，菲律賓的光電是不具競爭力的。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在光電占菲律賓全國百分之幾，知道嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我不知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：你不知道？菲律賓光電占其全國發電的2.4%，臺灣光電現在占我們全國發電百分之幾？"],["郭部長智輝：我們目前大概……目標……"],["洪委員孟楷：目前2024年，今年、現在、此時此刻。"],["郭部長智輝：我們此刻……"],["洪委員孟楷：也不知道？部長，你不知道菲律賓光電占他們全國發電百分之幾，你也不知道臺灣光電占全國發電百分之幾，結果你現在異想天開，認為我們可以去跟菲律賓買電？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我不是異想天開……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在臺灣的光電發電是4.5%。"],["郭部長智輝：我今天也講得非常清楚，在國際貿易理論裡面，有一個非常重要的理論叫做要素稟賦理論，企業的競爭力是國際……"],["洪委員孟楷：來，我先請教一下，沒關係，部長，我等一下讓你講，因為召委時間控制得很嚴格，我沒有辦法讓你講其他的，我只要你直接回答問題。菲律賓光電占其全國2.4%，因為臺灣目前為止是禁止中國製的光電模組跟電池，對不對？那菲律賓的光電大部分都是哪一個國家製作的？"],["郭部長智輝：菲律賓大部分應該都是中國的吧？"],["洪委員孟楷：中國的？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我們現在是要去跟菲律賓買電，以你的構想跟邏輯，要跟菲律賓買電，菲律賓用的是中國製的光電跟電池，哇！這種講法，如果說看在我們偉大的民進黨政府抗中保臺的立場上，你根本就是中共同路人，你根本就資匪了，你知道嗎？你會講出這樣的講法，菲律賓的光電，如同你剛剛說的有80%以上，甚至有人講說可能高達90%都是大陸製的光電模組跟電池，結果我們今天居然想是我們臺灣的本土產業或者是像國發會之前投入了30億投資綠能國家隊，我們當初綠能國家隊，不管是光電、不管是風力發電，我們是不是都有很重要的一個使命？是要培植本土產業，希望讓臺灣的產業能夠有永續發展的可能性，主委，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：就我了解，是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：是嘛！結果現在有一個經濟部長說，現在臺灣的本土產業不一定那麼重要，我們到菲律賓去買電。菲律賓買電的光電模組是中國大陸製的，那請教一下，我們是不是把我們的錢，某種程度上人家還不用出口轉內銷，還不用去洗產地耶！它直接在菲律賓裡面就可以用Made in China的光電模組來種電。主委，我再請教，因為國發會有能源政策跟相關的2050淨零碳排路徑，請教過去到現在，討論能源政策也好或討論淨零碳排路徑，有沒有曾經討論過跟國外買電的可能性？在哪一次，白皮書裡面有沒有？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前是沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有？所以你身後的這位部長，過去到現在也沒有跟國發會提過我們可以跟國外買電，是不是這樣？你也是從新聞上看到的？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：因為這個是……"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是從新聞上看到的？你直接講。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個是未來我們都在找多元綠能。"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是從新聞上看到的？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：第一次是從新聞看到的，但是……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：但是跟委員報告，新加坡已經在買了。"],["洪委員孟楷：國發會主委證實了經濟部部長的這個想法沒有跟國發會討論過，並且也是在新聞上看到的，感謝……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：他不需要跟我討論……"],["洪委員孟楷：我的問題問完了，我的時間也用完了……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：因為能源政策是經濟部……"],["洪委員孟楷：召委也站起來了，感謝大家，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：能源署的責任，所以能源政策是不需要跟我討論的。"],["主席：好，謝謝，官員請回座，謝謝洪孟楷委員，時間掌握得非常精準，謝謝。","我們今天已經宣告過，上午質詢到12點結束，在場許宇甄委員在……"],["葉委員元之：下一個是我。"],["主席：我知道，你不要急嘛！我是說他如果發言時間超過12點，你就要到下午2點半了。"],["葉委員元之：那就不要聊天了，趕快開會。"],["主席：今天上午只到許宇甄委員質詢結束。","接下來請葉元之委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","葉元之","許宇甄","賴士葆","陳冠廷","牛煦庭","羅智強","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-06"],"gazette_id":"1139401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首\n長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪\n資水準」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產\n業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139401_00001"}}}