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\"那所以呢基本上在這個部分FMF可能在共和黨上任之後會停止這一部分的援助那請問如果拜登政府提供給我們的免費軍援也就是PDA跟FMF停止的時候我們要怎麼協助國防部跟共和黨溝通請他們繼續免費的提供台灣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 506.437, \"end\": 506.677, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 506.677, \"end\": 506.897, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 506.897, \"end\": 507.058, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 507.058, \"end\": 507.938, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 507.938, \"end\": 508.139, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 508.139, \"end\": 508.319, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 508.319, \"end\": 508.519, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 508.519, \"end\": 508.959, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 508.959, \"end\": 509.199, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 509.199, \"end\": 509.62, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"F\", \"start\": 509.62, \"end\": 509.8, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 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\"防\", \"start\": 525.213, \"end\": 525.433, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 525.433, \"end\": 525.854, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 525.854, \"end\": 526.094, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 526.094, \"end\": 526.294, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 526.294, \"end\": 526.394, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 526.394, \"end\": 526.454, \"score\": 0.35}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 526.454, \"end\": 526.474, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 526.474, \"end\": 526.574, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 526.574, \"end\": 526.654, \"score\": 0.151}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 526.654, \"end\": 526.674, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 526.674, \"end\": 526.774, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 526.774, \"end\": 526.794, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}]}, {\"start\": 531.408, \"end\": 531.688, \"text\": \"那都可以改啊?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 531.408, \"end\": 531.428, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 531.428, \"end\": 531.448, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 531.448, \"end\": 531.588, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 531.588, \"end\": 531.608, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 531.608, \"end\": 531.668, \"score\": 0.381}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 531.668, \"end\": 531.688, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 552.401, \"end\": 557.687, \"text\": \"我認為國會選舉我們有持續觀察共和黨的國會議員挺台的力道是非常大挺台的力道高對高挺台的力道高歸高但是問題是要給錢的時候那又是另外一回事我們自己如果採購武器自己付錢是很自然的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 552.401, \"end\": 552.421, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 552.421, \"end\": 552.621, \"score\": 0.631}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 552.621, \"end\": 552.741, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 552.741, \"end\": 552.902, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 552.902, \"end\": 553.562, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 553.562, \"end\": 553.703, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 553.703, \"end\": 553.803, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 553.803, \"end\": 553.843, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"挺\", \"start\": 553.843, \"end\": 553.863, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 553.863, \"end\": 554.043, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 554.043, \"end\": 554.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 554.063, \"end\": 554.223, \"score\": 0.63}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 554.223, \"end\": 554.243, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,577 --> 00:00:02,823\n謝謝主席,我們有請林部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,638 --> 00:00:33,911\n部長好今天大家都關心美國選舉的結果那川普這個人呢他的個性被大家外界普遍都認為他是比較不充滿確定性的以美國利益為至上的所以他的競選口號在第一任的時候才會叫第二任的時候才會叫做這個MakeAmericanGreatAgain\n\n3\n00:00:34,691 --> 00:00:47,760\n所以他雖然充滿不確定性但是呢從另外台灣的這個美國的台灣通普瑞哲曾經說過川普是世界美國近代史上對防衛台灣最不以為然的總統\n\n4\n00:00:50,962 --> 00:01:06,488\n川普談價格不談價值講利益不重道義那我目前跟美國的關係剛好不是這樣子很多都是感情牌那請問政府認為在這個部分當川普以講求利益為主\n\n5\n00:01:07,008 --> 00:01:25,545\n那感情微腐的狀況之下．你覺得臺美的關係．在川普跟拜登上來這個交接之後．會有哪一些差別．請注意喔我沒有說美國會不支持臺灣我要問的是會有哪一些的差別．是外交部現在所評估的\n\n6\n00:01:27,167 --> 00:01:34,871\n其實在川普當總統的時候﹐很多對台灣政策的創新﹐那是過去﹐因為他充滿不確定性﹐所以2016年的川普﹐跟2024年的川普未必一樣﹐他的發言也經過這幾年來說﹐上上下下、上串下跳﹐\n\n7\n00:01:46,411 --> 00:02:09,543\n他2016年的說法版本跟他現在的說法版本是不一樣的所以我們要怎麼樣去因應這樣子的一個不確定性的危機這是我要請教你的問題我想經濟對他來講是目的也是一個手段所以他會用關稅然後等等一定的保護主義可是這個當然對方方會有影響他其實是來做一個\n\n8\n00:02:10,700 --> 00:02:12,041\n這也是為什麼美國這次選給川普的主要原因之一\n\n9\n00:02:37,472 --> 00:02:54,586\n但是他在這次選舉期間的政見有好幾樣跟台灣是有關的他在競選時期曾說過要求台灣的國防預算要提升至5到10%的GDP的這個部分那國防部昨天已經有表態說不可能了\n\n10\n00:02:55,706 --> 00:03:11,478\n這是美國特朗普總統的政見我們又知道他是一個非常強悍的人也不知道他當選之後會不會有這樣子的一個強迫但我們看一下這張同影片我們從107年開始我們的國防預算是1.95%\n\n11\n00:03:18,383 --> 00:03:21,686\n那到了114年度變成2.45%增加了2885億元增幅已經高達80.47%如果明年115年增加GDP到\n\n12\n00:03:35,756 --> 00:03:37,056\n我今天要問外交部的是請問這方面要怎麼幫國防部去跟美方來溝通說我們沒有辦法提供10%的國防預算因為這個圖太可怕了\n\n13\n00:04:04,643 --> 00:04:23,074\n這是我試算出來的,是幾兆啊?是2.96兆,2.6兆的數字喔所以我們本來才多少,我們又已經這個政府預算就很多了民主黨他們要求我們是希望提高到3%所以離2.45%左右呢是差了一點點\n\n14\n00:04:24,795 --> 00:04:45,165\n可是現在他們的標準達到5到10%．如果真的上到10%的話．會變成2.6兆的國防預算．所以我相信部長的角色．配合國防部昨天說不可能．一定勢必要去跟美方溝通．請問我們有什麼條件．什麼方式．什麼方向來跟美國溝通\n\n15\n00:04:47,157 --> 00:05:11,732\n簡單跟委員報告我就跟他這樣溝通啦我們過去8年來這個國防預算持續增加將近未來也會繼續增加那這個未來的部分因為我們其實計算國防預算我們要去說明其實台灣現在退補會台灣現在全社會任性台灣現在兵役從4個月恢復到1年其實這個都是國防預算啦\n\n16\n00:05:12,372 --> 00:05:14,373\n部長您這樣講就不對了因為在川普他的這個政策裡面是分成軍購費用跟保護費用這件事您知道嗎?\n\n17\n00:05:29,790 --> 00:05:32,212\n部長,他把軍購跟保護,也就是服務費用分成兩筆,這是不同的。\n\n18\n00:05:48,166 --> 00:06:07,561\n在他的論述裡面如果您有仔細看的話他沒有駐軍啦我們自己在支持我們龐大的這個軍力嘛現在這個服役又提早了一年我意思是說這個計算的基礎以及他的項目因為我覺得大方向我們跟他並沒有不一樣只是說\n\n19\n00:06:08,822 --> 00:06:26,646\n這個所謂5%或10%他講的這個數字這個是一個趨勢嘛那我們的趨勢本來就持續在增加中所以我會用這種方式溝通說我不是我不同意你的主張我們的主張有一致的方向但是怎麼做也要有執行力嘛比如說我們採購了200億的美金的這個軍購案啊他都還沒有辦法給我們啊他也有點理虧啊\n\n20\n00:06:32,987 --> 00:06:37,028\n這一點我支持林佳龍部長他們欠我們的武器他們要給我們我們才能去跟他購買新的武器啊不能很多武器都延遲交付然後你叫我給你10%的GDP暴增成如此這個大家台灣民眾能如何接受呢我們台灣的財政也無法負擔啊所以麻煩我們部長朝這個方向去跟美方做溝通\n\n21\n00:07:00,754 --> 00:07:01,514\n我們並沒有付給他啦,我們付給自己啦\n\n22\n00:07:30,896 --> 00:07:31,116\n美國叫我們做的\n\n23\n00:07:47,369 --> 00:07:49,130\n川普上任後對於烏克蘭的自由協助可能會停止因為川普對於烏克蘭的戰爭一直是不以為然的\n\n24\n00:08:08,676 --> 00:08:25,556\n但是川普他又是一個我不要講他視錢如命啦但是他對美國的利益至上這件事情是無從置諱的但拜登政府任內提供了包含是PDA以及台灣的相關的軍購的融資的服務\n\n25\n00:08:26,437 --> 00:08:46,794\n那所以呢基本上在這個部分FMF可能在共和黨上任之後會停止這一部分的援助那請問如果拜登政府提供給我們的免費軍援也就是PDA跟FMF停止的時候我們要怎麼協助國防部跟共和黨溝通請他們繼續免費的提供台灣\n\n26\n00:08:51,408 --> 00:08:51,688\n那都可以改啊?\n\n27\n00:09:12,401 --> 00:09:17,687\n我認為國會選舉我們有持續觀察共和黨的國會議員挺台的力道是非常大挺台的力道高對高挺台的力道高歸高但是問題是要給錢的時候那又是另外一回事我們自己如果採購武器自己付錢是很自然的\n\n28\n00:09:32,165 --> 00:09:53,609\n但是PDA跟EMF都是美國免費提供軍援給台灣這是拜登上任以後才有的政策所以我們是在講如果川普他們去改了這個政策變成不提供了那我們外交部有沒有管到或是我們會不會向美方來針對這個部分做抗議\n\n29\n00:09:56,670 --> 00:09:59,531\n主席借我一分鐘我問最後一個問題喔川普呢他在競選期間他說台灣搶走美國的半導體部長您同意他說的這句話嗎\n\n30\n00:10:27,195 --> 00:10:37,168\n這句話是有問題的但是就是所謂因為其實半導體產業我其實計算過台灣現在整個在所有的供應鏈我們在佔不到兩成\n\n31\n00:10:38,595 --> 00:10:40,235\n部長,這個道理我都懂所以我才替台灣人報不平所以我們都做到這樣了川普總統還說台灣搶了美國的晶片\n\n32\n00:11:04,801 --> 00:11:21,311\n所以他未來會不會在這方面克重稅或對台灣下重手這是外交部要強力去關注的您同意嗎?對,我們都密切注意當中那如果有任何的變動是他真的按照他過去的說法因為\n\n33\n00:11:22,111 --> 00:11:45,573\n我也坦白跟部長說他可能過去說他未來不一定會做這也是有可能的並沒有要給外交部過大的壓力但如果你們觀察到真的他繼續針對台灣的半導體要求我們提供任何的不合理的服務項目或者是關稅或者是金錢、經濟等等的話外交部會向美方嚴正的提出抗議嗎?\n\n34\n00:11:47,827 --> 00:11:51,930\n其實我跟委員報告美國的這些半導體的專家、業者還有媒體都已經替我們說了\n\n35\n00:12:15,247 --> 00:12:16,008\n他替我們說不如我們自己說如果別人都幫我們說但我們卻不幫自己說的話\n\n36\n00:12:30,505 --> 00:12:43,894\n所以請部長,如果川普總統他當選以後繼續維持選舉期間的選舉口號跟步調沒有改變的話請外交部一定要嚴正的提出譴責保護台灣的半導體產業,可以嗎?\n\n37\n00:12:47,131 --> 00:13:00,858\n我覺得他是個法治國家就要看他提的法案具體的內容啦沒有我就說假使發生這種狀況嘛因為這是有可能發生的狀況嘛沒有當然最好我們都樂得開心啊但假使國會也通過了美國總統也這麼做了那\n\n38\n00:13:02,819 --> 00:13:11,464\n我們是不是就要發表嚴正的抗議並且要實質上的去做溝通你是不是要承諾有這件事情而不是說我們一定會去溝通的其他人有幫我們講話我們就算了我們要為自己發聲保留台灣的半導體這是我們的經濟命脈從國民黨早期執政的時候一個豆漿會然後呢想出我們要做半導體一路一路一路到現在我們在大樹之下乘涼\n\n39\n00:13:30,276 --> 00:13:30,416\n徐巧芯\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1577\t2823\t謝謝主席,我們有請林部長\n11638\t33911\t部長好今天大家都關心美國選舉的結果那川普這個人呢他的個性被大家外界普遍都認為他是比較不充滿確定性的以美國利益為至上的所以他的競選口號在第一任的時候才會叫第二任的時候才會叫做這個Make American Great Again\n34691\t47760\t所以他雖然充滿不確定性但是呢從另外台灣的這個美國的台灣通普瑞哲曾經說過川普是世界美國近代史上對防衛台灣最不以為然的總統\n50962\t66488\t川普談價格不談價值講利益不重道義那我目前跟美國的關係剛好不是這樣子很多都是感情牌那請問政府認為在這個部分當川普以講求利益為主\n67008\t85545\t那感情微腐的狀況之下．你覺得臺美的關係．在川普跟拜登上來這個交接之後．會有哪一些差別．請注意喔我沒有說美國會不支持臺灣我要問的是會有哪一些的差別．是外交部現在所評估的\n87167\t94871\t其實在川普當總統的時候﹐很多對台灣政策的創新﹐那是過去﹐因為他充滿不確定性﹐所以2016年的川普﹐跟2024年的川普未必一樣﹐他的發言也經過這幾年來說﹐上上下下、上串下跳﹐\n106411\t129543\t他2016年的說法版本跟他現在的說法版本是不一樣的所以我們要怎麼樣去因應這樣子的一個不確定性的危機這是我要請教你的問題我想經濟對他來講是目的也是一個手段所以他會用關稅然後等等一定的保護主義可是這個當然對方方會有影響他其實是來做一個\n130700\t132041\t這也是為什麼美國這次選給川普的主要原因之一\n157472\t174586\t但是他在這次選舉期間的政見有好幾樣跟台灣是有關的他在競選時期曾說過要求台灣的國防預算要提升至5到10%的GDP的這個部分那國防部昨天已經有表態說不可能了\n175706\t191478\t這是美國特朗普總統的政見我們又知道他是一個非常強悍的人也不知道他當選之後會不會有這樣子的一個強迫但我們看一下這張同影片我們從107年開始我們的國防預算是1.95%\n198383\t201686\t那到了114年度變成2.45% 增加了2885億元 增幅已經高達80.47% 如果明年115年增加GDP到\n215756\t217056\t我今天要問外交部的是請問這方面要怎麼幫國防部去跟美方來溝通說我們沒有辦法提供10%的國防預算因為這個圖太可怕了\n244643\t263074\t這是我試算出來的,是幾兆啊?是2.96兆,2.6兆的數字喔所以我們本來才多少,我們又已經這個政府預算就很多了民主黨他們要求我們是希望提高到3%所以離2.45%左右呢是差了一點點\n264795\t285165\t可是現在他們的標準達到5到10%．如果真的上到10%的話．會變成2.6兆的國防預算．所以我相信部長的角色．配合國防部昨天說不可能．一定勢必要去跟美方溝通．請問我們有什麼條件．什麼方式．什麼方向來跟美國溝通\n287157\t311732\t簡單跟委員報告我就跟他這樣溝通啦我們過去8年來這個國防預算持續增加將近未來也會繼續增加那這個未來的部分因為我們其實計算國防預算我們要去說明其實台灣現在退補會台灣現在全社會任性台灣現在兵役從4個月恢復到1年其實這個都是國防預算啦\n312372\t314373\t部長您這樣講就不對了因為在川普他的這個政策裡面是分成軍購費用跟保護費用這件事您知道嗎?\n329790\t332212\t部長,他把軍購跟保護,也就是服務費用分成兩筆,這是不同的。\n348166\t367561\t在他的論述裡面如果您有仔細看的話他沒有駐軍啦我們自己在支持我們龐大的這個軍力嘛現在這個服役又提早了一年我意思是說這個計算的基礎以及他的項目因為我覺得大方向我們跟他並沒有不一樣只是說\n368822\t386646\t這個所謂5%或10%他講的這個數字這個是一個趨勢嘛那我們的趨勢本來就持續在增加中所以我會用這種方式溝通說我不是 我不同意你的主張我們的主張有一致的方向但是怎麼做也要有執行力嘛比如說我們採購了200億的美金的這個軍購案啊他都還沒有辦法給我們啊他也有點理虧啊\n392987\t397028\t這一點我支持林佳龍部長他們欠我們的武器他們要給我們我們才能去跟他購買新的武器啊不能很多武器都延遲交付然後你叫我給你10%的GDP暴增成如此這個大家台灣民眾能如何接受呢我們台灣的財政也無法負擔啊所以麻煩我們部長朝這個方向去跟美方做溝通\n420754\t421514\t我們並沒有付給他啦,我們付給自己啦\n450896\t451116\t美國叫我們做的\n467369\t469130\t川普上任後對於烏克蘭的自由協助可能會停止因為川普對於烏克蘭的戰爭一直是不以為然的\n488676\t505556\t但是川普他又是一個我不要講他視錢如命啦但是他對美國的利益至上這件事情是無從置諱的但拜登政府任內提供了包含是PDA以及台灣的相關的軍購的融資的服務\n506437\t526794\t那所以呢基本上在這個部分FMF可能在共和黨上任之後會停止這一部分的援助那請問如果拜登政府提供給我們的免費軍援也就是PDA跟FMF停止的時候我們要怎麼協助國防部跟共和黨溝通請他們繼續免費的提供台灣\n531408\t531688\t那都可以改啊?\n552401\t557687\t我認為國會選舉我們有持續觀察共和黨的國會議員挺台的力道是非常大挺台的力道高對高挺台的力道高歸高但是問題是要給錢的時候那又是另外一回事我們自己如果採購武器自己付錢是很自然的\n572165\t593609\t但是PDA跟EMF都是美國免費提供軍援給台灣這是拜登上任以後才有的政策所以我們是在講如果川普他們去改了這個政策變成不提供了那我們外交部有沒有管到或是我們會不會向美方來針對這個部分做抗議\n596670\t599531\t主席借我一分鐘我問最後一個問題喔川普呢他在競選期間他說台灣搶走美國的半導體部長您同意他說的這句話嗎\n627195\t637168\t這句話是有問題的但是就是所謂因為其實半導體產業我其實計算過台灣現在整個在所有的供應鏈我們在佔不到兩成\n638595\t640235\t部長,這個道理我都懂所以我才替台灣人報不平所以我們都做到這樣了川普總統還說台灣搶了美國的晶片\n664801\t681311\t所以他未來會不會在這方面克重稅或對台灣下重手這是外交部要強力去關注的您同意嗎?對,我們都密切注意當中那如果有任何的變動是他真的按照他過去的說法因為\n682111\t705573\t我也坦白跟部長說他可能過去說他未來不一定會做這也是有可能的並沒有要給外交部過大的壓力但如果你們觀察到真的他繼續針對台灣的半導體要求我們提供任何的不合理的服務項目或者是關稅或者是金錢、經濟等等的話外交部會向美方嚴正的提出抗議嗎?\n707827\t711930\t其實我跟委員報告美國的這些半導體的專家、業者還有媒體都已經替我們說了\n735247\t736008\t他替我們說不如我們自己說如果別人都幫我們說但我們卻不幫自己說的話\n750505\t763894\t所以請部長,如果川普總統他當選以後繼續維持選舉期間的選舉口號跟步調沒有改變的話請外交部一定要嚴正的提出譴責保護台灣的半導體產業,可以嗎?\n767131\t780858\t我覺得他是個法治國家就要看他提的法案具體的內容啦沒有我就說假使發生這種狀況嘛因為這是有可能發生的狀況嘛沒有當然最好我們都樂得開心啊但假使國會也通過了美國總統也這麼做了那\n782819\t791464\t我們是不是就要發表嚴正的抗議並且要實質上的去做溝通你是不是要承諾有這件事情而不是說我們一定會去溝通的其他人有幫我們講話我們就算了我們要為自己發聲保留台灣的半導體這是我們的經濟命脈從國民黨早期執政的時候一個豆漿會然後呢想出我們要做半導體一路一路一路到現在我們在大樹之下乘涼\n810276\t810416\t徐巧芯\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們有請林部長\n部長好今天大家都關心美國選舉的結果那川普這個人呢他的個性被大家外界普遍都認為他是比較不充滿確定性的以美國利益為至上的所以他的競選口號在第一任的時候才會叫第二任的時候才會叫做這個Make American Great Again\n所以他雖然充滿不確定性但是呢從另外台灣的這個美國的台灣通普瑞哲曾經說過川普是世界美國近代史上對防衛台灣最不以為然的總統\n川普談價格不談價值講利益不重道義那我目前跟美國的關係剛好不是這樣子很多都是感情牌那請問政府認為在這個部分當川普以講求利益為主\n那感情微腐的狀況之下．你覺得臺美的關係．在川普跟拜登上來這個交接之後．會有哪一些差別．請注意喔我沒有說美國會不支持臺灣我要問的是會有哪一些的差別．是外交部現在所評估的\n其實在川普當總統的時候﹐很多對台灣政策的創新﹐那是過去﹐因為他充滿不確定性﹐所以2016年的川普﹐跟2024年的川普未必一樣﹐他的發言也經過這幾年來說﹐上上下下、上串下跳﹐\n他2016年的說法版本跟他現在的說法版本是不一樣的所以我們要怎麼樣去因應這樣子的一個不確定性的危機這是我要請教你的問題我想經濟對他來講是目的也是一個手段所以他會用關稅然後等等一定的保護主義可是這個當然對方方會有影響他其實是來做一個\n這也是為什麼美國這次選給川普的主要原因之一\n但是他在這次選舉期間的政見有好幾樣跟台灣是有關的他在競選時期曾說過要求台灣的國防預算要提升至5到10%的GDP的這個部分那國防部昨天已經有表態說不可能了\n這是美國特朗普總統的政見我們又知道他是一個非常強悍的人也不知道他當選之後會不會有這樣子的一個強迫但我們看一下這張同影片我們從107年開始我們的國防預算是1.95%\n那到了114年度變成2.45% 增加了2885億元 增幅已經高達80.47% 如果明年115年增加GDP到\n我今天要問外交部的是請問這方面要怎麼幫國防部去跟美方來溝通說我們沒有辦法提供10%的國防預算因為這個圖太可怕了\n這是我試算出來的,是幾兆啊?是2.96兆,2.6兆的數字喔所以我們本來才多少,我們又已經這個政府預算就很多了民主黨他們要求我們是希望提高到3%所以離2.45%左右呢是差了一點點\n可是現在他們的標準達到5到10%．如果真的上到10%的話．會變成2.6兆的國防預算．所以我相信部長的角色．配合國防部昨天說不可能．一定勢必要去跟美方溝通．請問我們有什麼條件．什麼方式．什麼方向來跟美國溝通\n簡單跟委員報告我就跟他這樣溝通啦我們過去8年來這個國防預算持續增加將近未來也會繼續增加那這個未來的部分因為我們其實計算國防預算我們要去說明其實台灣現在退補會台灣現在全社會任性台灣現在兵役從4個月恢復到1年其實這個都是國防預算啦\n部長您這樣講就不對了因為在川普他的這個政策裡面是分成軍購費用跟保護費用這件事您知道嗎?\n部長,他把軍購跟保護,也就是服務費用分成兩筆,這是不同的。\n在他的論述裡面如果您有仔細看的話他沒有駐軍啦我們自己在支持我們龐大的這個軍力嘛現在這個服役又提早了一年我意思是說這個計算的基礎以及他的項目因為我覺得大方向我們跟他並沒有不一樣只是說\n這個所謂5%或10%他講的這個數字這個是一個趨勢嘛那我們的趨勢本來就持續在增加中所以我會用這種方式溝通說我不是 我不同意你的主張我們的主張有一致的方向但是怎麼做也要有執行力嘛比如說我們採購了200億的美金的這個軍購案啊他都還沒有辦法給我們啊他也有點理虧啊\n這一點我支持林佳龍部長他們欠我們的武器他們要給我們我們才能去跟他購買新的武器啊不能很多武器都延遲交付然後你叫我給你10%的GDP暴增成如此這個大家台灣民眾能如何接受呢我們台灣的財政也無法負擔啊所以麻煩我們部長朝這個方向去跟美方做溝通\n我們並沒有付給他啦,我們付給自己啦\n美國叫我們做的\n川普上任後對於烏克蘭的自由協助可能會停止因為川普對於烏克蘭的戰爭一直是不以為然的\n但是川普他又是一個我不要講他視錢如命啦但是他對美國的利益至上這件事情是無從置諱的但拜登政府任內提供了包含是PDA以及台灣的相關的軍購的融資的服務\n那所以呢基本上在這個部分FMF可能在共和黨上任之後會停止這一部分的援助那請問如果拜登政府提供給我們的免費軍援也就是PDA跟FMF停止的時候我們要怎麼協助國防部跟共和黨溝通請他們繼續免費的提供台灣\n那都可以改啊?\n我認為國會選舉我們有持續觀察共和黨的國會議員挺台的力道是非常大挺台的力道高對高挺台的力道高歸高但是問題是要給錢的時候那又是另外一回事我們自己如果採購武器自己付錢是很自然的\n但是PDA跟EMF都是美國免費提供軍援給台灣這是拜登上任以後才有的政策所以我們是在講如果川普他們去改了這個政策變成不提供了那我們外交部有沒有管到或是我們會不會向美方來針對這個部分做抗議\n主席借我一分鐘我問最後一個問題喔川普呢他在競選期間他說台灣搶走美國的半導體部長您同意他說的這句話嗎\n這句話是有問題的但是就是所謂因為其實半導體產業我其實計算過台灣現在整個在所有的供應鏈我們在佔不到兩成\n部長,這個道理我都懂所以我才替台灣人報不平所以我們都做到這樣了川普總統還說台灣搶了美國的晶片\n所以他未來會不會在這方面克重稅或對台灣下重手這是外交部要強力去關注的您同意嗎?對,我們都密切注意當中那如果有任何的變動是他真的按照他過去的說法因為\n我也坦白跟部長說他可能過去說他未來不一定會做這也是有可能的並沒有要給外交部過大的壓力但如果你們觀察到真的他繼續針對台灣的半導體要求我們提供任何的不合理的服務項目或者是關稅或者是金錢、經濟等等的話外交部會向美方嚴正的提出抗議嗎?\n其實我跟委員報告美國的這些半導體的專家、業者還有媒體都已經替我們說了\n他替我們說不如我們自己說如果別人都幫我們說但我們卻不幫自己說的話\n所以請部長,如果川普總統他當選以後繼續維持選舉期間的選舉口號跟步調沒有改變的話請外交部一定要嚴正的提出譴責保護台灣的半導體產業,可以嗎?\n我覺得他是個法治國家就要看他提的法案具體的內容啦沒有我就說假使發生這種狀況嘛因為這是有可能發生的狀況嘛沒有當然最好我們都樂得開心啊但假使國會也通過了美國總統也這麼做了那\n我們是不是就要發表嚴正的抗議並且要實質上的去做溝通你是不是要承諾有這件事情而不是說我們一定會去溝通的其他人有幫我們講話我們就算了我們要為自己發聲保留台灣的半導體這是我們的經濟命脈從國民黨早期執政的時候一個豆漿會然後呢想出我們要做半導體一路一路一路到現在我們在大樹之下乘涼\n徐巧芯\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.577 --> 00:02.823\n謝謝主席,我們有請林部長\n\n00:11.638 --> 00:33.911\n部長好今天大家都關心美國選舉的結果那川普這個人呢他的個性被大家外界普遍都認為他是比較不充滿確定性的以美國利益為至上的所以他的競選口號在第一任的時候才會叫第二任的時候才會叫做這個MakeAmericanGreatAgain\n\n00:34.691 --> 00:47.760\n所以他雖然充滿不確定性但是呢從另外台灣的這個美國的台灣通普瑞哲曾經說過川普是世界美國近代史上對防衛台灣最不以為然的總統\n\n00:50.962 --> 01:06.488\n川普談價格不談價值講利益不重道義那我目前跟美國的關係剛好不是這樣子很多都是感情牌那請問政府認為在這個部分當川普以講求利益為主\n\n01:07.008 --> 01:25.545\n那感情微腐的狀況之下．你覺得臺美的關係．在川普跟拜登上來這個交接之後．會有哪一些差別．請注意喔我沒有說美國會不支持臺灣我要問的是會有哪一些的差別．是外交部現在所評估的\n\n01:27.167 --> 01:34.871\n其實在川普當總統的時候﹐很多對台灣政策的創新﹐那是過去﹐因為他充滿不確定性﹐所以2016年的川普﹐跟2024年的川普未必一樣﹐他的發言也經過這幾年來說﹐上上下下、上串下跳﹐\n\n01:46.411 --> 02:09.543\n他2016年的說法版本跟他現在的說法版本是不一樣的所以我們要怎麼樣去因應這樣子的一個不確定性的危機這是我要請教你的問題我想經濟對他來講是目的也是一個手段所以他會用關稅然後等等一定的保護主義可是這個當然對方方會有影響他其實是來做一個\n\n02:10.700 --> 02:12.041\n這也是為什麼美國這次選給川普的主要原因之一\n\n02:37.472 --> 02:54.586\n但是他在這次選舉期間的政見有好幾樣跟台灣是有關的他在競選時期曾說過要求台灣的國防預算要提升至5到10%的GDP的這個部分那國防部昨天已經有表態說不可能了\n\n02:55.706 --> 03:11.478\n這是美國特朗普總統的政見我們又知道他是一個非常強悍的人也不知道他當選之後會不會有這樣子的一個強迫但我們看一下這張同影片我們從107年開始我們的國防預算是1.95%\n\n03:18.383 --> 03:21.686\n那到了114年度變成2.45%增加了2885億元增幅已經高達80.47%如果明年115年增加GDP到\n\n03:35.756 --> 03:37.056\n我今天要問外交部的是請問這方面要怎麼幫國防部去跟美方來溝通說我們沒有辦法提供10%的國防預算因為這個圖太可怕了\n\n04:04.643 --> 04:23.074\n這是我試算出來的,是幾兆啊?是2.96兆,2.6兆的數字喔所以我們本來才多少,我們又已經這個政府預算就很多了民主黨他們要求我們是希望提高到3%所以離2.45%左右呢是差了一點點\n\n04:24.795 --> 04:45.165\n可是現在他們的標準達到5到10%．如果真的上到10%的話．會變成2.6兆的國防預算．所以我相信部長的角色．配合國防部昨天說不可能．一定勢必要去跟美方溝通．請問我們有什麼條件．什麼方式．什麼方向來跟美國溝通\n\n04:47.157 --> 05:11.732\n簡單跟委員報告我就跟他這樣溝通啦我們過去8年來這個國防預算持續增加將近未來也會繼續增加那這個未來的部分因為我們其實計算國防預算我們要去說明其實台灣現在退補會台灣現在全社會任性台灣現在兵役從4個月恢復到1年其實這個都是國防預算啦\n\n05:12.372 --> 05:14.373\n部長您這樣講就不對了因為在川普他的這個政策裡面是分成軍購費用跟保護費用這件事您知道嗎?\n\n05:29.790 --> 05:32.212\n部長,他把軍購跟保護,也就是服務費用分成兩筆,這是不同的。\n\n05:48.166 --> 06:07.561\n在他的論述裡面如果您有仔細看的話他沒有駐軍啦我們自己在支持我們龐大的這個軍力嘛現在這個服役又提早了一年我意思是說這個計算的基礎以及他的項目因為我覺得大方向我們跟他並沒有不一樣只是說\n\n06:08.822 --> 06:26.646\n這個所謂5%或10%他講的這個數字這個是一個趨勢嘛那我們的趨勢本來就持續在增加中所以我會用這種方式溝通說我不是我不同意你的主張我們的主張有一致的方向但是怎麼做也要有執行力嘛比如說我們採購了200億的美金的這個軍購案啊他都還沒有辦法給我們啊他也有點理虧啊\n\n06:32.987 --> 06:37.028\n這一點我支持林佳龍部長他們欠我們的武器他們要給我們我們才能去跟他購買新的武器啊不能很多武器都延遲交付然後你叫我給你10%的GDP暴增成如此這個大家台灣民眾能如何接受呢我們台灣的財政也無法負擔啊所以麻煩我們部長朝這個方向去跟美方做溝通\n\n07:00.754 --> 07:01.514\n我們並沒有付給他啦,我們付給自己啦\n\n07:30.896 --> 07:31.116\n美國叫我們做的\n\n07:47.369 --> 07:49.130\n川普上任後對於烏克蘭的自由協助可能會停止因為川普對於烏克蘭的戰爭一直是不以為然的\n\n08:08.676 --> 08:25.556\n但是川普他又是一個我不要講他視錢如命啦但是他對美國的利益至上這件事情是無從置諱的但拜登政府任內提供了包含是PDA以及台灣的相關的軍購的融資的服務\n\n08:26.437 --> 08:46.794\n那所以呢基本上在這個部分FMF可能在共和黨上任之後會停止這一部分的援助那請問如果拜登政府提供給我們的免費軍援也就是PDA跟FMF停止的時候我們要怎麼協助國防部跟共和黨溝通請他們繼續免費的提供台灣\n\n08:51.408 --> 08:51.688\n那都可以改啊?\n\n09:12.401 --> 09:17.687\n我認為國會選舉我們有持續觀察共和黨的國會議員挺台的力道是非常大挺台的力道高對高挺台的力道高歸高但是問題是要給錢的時候那又是另外一回事我們自己如果採購武器自己付錢是很自然的\n\n09:32.165 --> 09:53.609\n但是PDA跟EMF都是美國免費提供軍援給台灣這是拜登上任以後才有的政策所以我們是在講如果川普他們去改了這個政策變成不提供了那我們外交部有沒有管到或是我們會不會向美方來針對這個部分做抗議\n\n09:56.670 --> 09:59.531\n主席借我一分鐘我問最後一個問題喔川普呢他在競選期間他說台灣搶走美國的半導體部長您同意他說的這句話嗎\n\n10:27.195 --> 10:37.168\n這句話是有問題的但是就是所謂因為其實半導體產業我其實計算過台灣現在整個在所有的供應鏈我們在佔不到兩成\n\n10:38.595 --> 10:40.235\n部長,這個道理我都懂所以我才替台灣人報不平所以我們都做到這樣了川普總統還說台灣搶了美國的晶片\n\n11:04.801 --> 11:21.311\n所以他未來會不會在這方面克重稅或對台灣下重手這是外交部要強力去關注的您同意嗎?對,我們都密切注意當中那如果有任何的變動是他真的按照他過去的說法因為\n\n11:22.111 --> 11:45.573\n我也坦白跟部長說他可能過去說他未來不一定會做這也是有可能的並沒有要給外交部過大的壓力但如果你們觀察到真的他繼續針對台灣的半導體要求我們提供任何的不合理的服務項目或者是關稅或者是金錢、經濟等等的話外交部會向美方嚴正的提出抗議嗎?\n\n11:47.827 --> 11:51.930\n其實我跟委員報告美國的這些半導體的專家、業者還有媒體都已經替我們說了\n\n12:15.247 --> 12:16.008\n他替我們說不如我們自己說如果別人都幫我們說但我們卻不幫自己說的話\n\n12:30.505 --> 12:43.894\n所以請部長,如果川普總統他當選以後繼續維持選舉期間的選舉口號跟步調沒有改變的話請外交部一定要嚴正的提出譴責保護台灣的半導體產業,可以嗎?\n\n12:47.131 --> 13:00.858\n我覺得他是個法治國家就要看他提的法案具體的內容啦沒有我就說假使發生這種狀況嘛因為這是有可能發生的狀況嘛沒有當然最好我們都樂得開心啊但假使國會也通過了美國總統也這麼做了那\n\n13:02.819 --> 13:11.464\n我們是不是就要發表嚴正的抗議並且要實質上的去做溝通你是不是要承諾有這件事情而不是說我們一定會去溝通的其他人有幫我們講話我們就算了我們要為自己發聲保留台灣的半導體這是我們的經濟命脈從國民黨早期執政的時候一個豆漿會然後呢想出我們要做半導體一路一路一路到現在我們在大樹之下乘涼\n\n13:30.276 --> 13:30.416\n徐巧芯\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.577,"end":2.823,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請林部長"},{"start":11.638,"end":33.911,"text":"部長好今天大家都關心美國選舉的結果那川普這個人呢他的個性被大家外界普遍都認為他是比較不充滿確定性的以美國利益為至上的所以他的競選口號在第一任的時候才會叫第二任的時候才會叫做這個Make American Great Again"},{"start":34.691,"end":47.76,"text":"所以他雖然充滿不確定性但是呢從另外台灣的這個美國的台灣通普瑞哲曾經說過川普是世界美國近代史上對防衛台灣最不以為然的總統"},{"start":50.962,"end":66.488,"text":"川普談價格不談價值講利益不重道義那我目前跟美國的關係剛好不是這樣子很多都是感情牌那請問政府認為在這個部分當川普以講求利益為主"},{"start":67.008,"end":85.545,"text":"那感情微腐的狀況之下．你覺得臺美的關係．在川普跟拜登上來這個交接之後．會有哪一些差別．請注意喔我沒有說美國會不支持臺灣我要問的是會有哪一些的差別．是外交部現在所評估的"},{"start":87.167,"end":94.871,"text":"其實在川普當總統的時候﹐很多對台灣政策的創新﹐那是過去﹐因為他充滿不確定性﹐所以2016年的川普﹐跟2024年的川普未必一樣﹐他的發言也經過這幾年來說﹐上上下下、上串下跳﹐"},{"start":106.411,"end":129.543,"text":"他2016年的說法版本跟他現在的說法版本是不一樣的所以我們要怎麼樣去因應這樣子的一個不確定性的危機這是我要請教你的問題我想經濟對他來講是目的也是一個手段所以他會用關稅然後等等一定的保護主義可是這個當然對方方會有影響他其實是來做一個"},{"start":130.7,"end":132.041,"text":"這也是為什麼美國這次選給川普的主要原因之一"},{"start":157.472,"end":174.586,"text":"但是他在這次選舉期間的政見有好幾樣跟台灣是有關的他在競選時期曾說過要求台灣的國防預算要提升至5到10%的GDP的這個部分那國防部昨天已經有表態說不可能了"},{"start":175.706,"end":191.478,"text":"這是美國特朗普總統的政見我們又知道他是一個非常強悍的人也不知道他當選之後會不會有這樣子的一個強迫但我們看一下這張同影片我們從107年開始我們的國防預算是1.95%"},{"start":198.383,"end":201.686,"text":"那到了114年度變成2.45% 增加了2885億元 增幅已經高達80.47% 如果明年115年增加GDP到"},{"start":215.756,"end":217.056,"text":"我今天要問外交部的是請問這方面要怎麼幫國防部去跟美方來溝通說我們沒有辦法提供10%的國防預算因為這個圖太可怕了"},{"start":244.643,"end":263.074,"text":"這是我試算出來的,是幾兆啊?是2.96兆,2.6兆的數字喔所以我們本來才多少,我們又已經這個政府預算就很多了民主黨他們要求我們是希望提高到3%所以離2.45%左右呢是差了一點點"},{"start":264.795,"end":285.165,"text":"可是現在他們的標準達到5到10%．如果真的上到10%的話．會變成2.6兆的國防預算．所以我相信部長的角色．配合國防部昨天說不可能．一定勢必要去跟美方溝通．請問我們有什麼條件．什麼方式．什麼方向來跟美國溝通"},{"start":287.157,"end":311.732,"text":"簡單跟委員報告我就跟他這樣溝通啦我們過去8年來這個國防預算持續增加將近未來也會繼續增加那這個未來的部分因為我們其實計算國防預算我們要去說明其實台灣現在退補會台灣現在全社會任性台灣現在兵役從4個月恢復到1年其實這個都是國防預算啦"},{"start":312.372,"end":314.373,"text":"部長您這樣講就不對了因為在川普他的這個政策裡面是分成軍購費用跟保護費用這件事您知道嗎?"},{"start":329.79,"end":332.212,"text":"部長,他把軍購跟保護,也就是服務費用分成兩筆,這是不同的。"},{"start":348.166,"end":367.561,"text":"在他的論述裡面如果您有仔細看的話他沒有駐軍啦我們自己在支持我們龐大的這個軍力嘛現在這個服役又提早了一年我意思是說這個計算的基礎以及他的項目因為我覺得大方向我們跟他並沒有不一樣只是說"},{"start":368.822,"end":386.646,"text":"這個所謂5%或10%他講的這個數字這個是一個趨勢嘛那我們的趨勢本來就持續在增加中所以我會用這種方式溝通說我不是 我不同意你的主張我們的主張有一致的方向但是怎麼做也要有執行力嘛比如說我們採購了200億的美金的這個軍購案啊他都還沒有辦法給我們啊他也有點理虧啊"},{"start":392.987,"end":397.028,"text":"這一點我支持林佳龍部長他們欠我們的武器他們要給我們我們才能去跟他購買新的武器啊不能很多武器都延遲交付然後你叫我給你10%的GDP暴增成如此這個大家台灣民眾能如何接受呢我們台灣的財政也無法負擔啊所以麻煩我們部長朝這個方向去跟美方做溝通"},{"start":420.754,"end":421.514,"text":"我們並沒有付給他啦,我們付給自己啦"},{"start":450.896,"end":451.116,"text":"美國叫我們做的"},{"start":467.369,"end":469.13,"text":"川普上任後對於烏克蘭的自由協助可能會停止因為川普對於烏克蘭的戰爭一直是不以為然的"},{"start":488.676,"end":505.556,"text":"但是川普他又是一個我不要講他視錢如命啦但是他對美國的利益至上這件事情是無從置諱的但拜登政府任內提供了包含是PDA以及台灣的相關的軍購的融資的服務"},{"start":506.437,"end":526.794,"text":"那所以呢基本上在這個部分FMF可能在共和黨上任之後會停止這一部分的援助那請問如果拜登政府提供給我們的免費軍援也就是PDA跟FMF停止的時候我們要怎麼協助國防部跟共和黨溝通請他們繼續免費的提供台灣"},{"start":531.408,"end":531.688,"text":"那都可以改啊?"},{"start":552.401,"end":557.687,"text":"我認為國會選舉我們有持續觀察共和黨的國會議員挺台的力道是非常大挺台的力道高對高挺台的力道高歸高但是問題是要給錢的時候那又是另外一回事我們自己如果採購武器自己付錢是很自然的"},{"start":572.165,"end":593.609,"text":"但是PDA跟EMF都是美國免費提供軍援給台灣這是拜登上任以後才有的政策所以我們是在講如果川普他們去改了這個政策變成不提供了那我們外交部有沒有管到或是我們會不會向美方來針對這個部分做抗議"},{"start":596.67,"end":599.531,"text":"主席借我一分鐘我問最後一個問題喔川普呢他在競選期間他說台灣搶走美國的半導體部長您同意他說的這句話嗎"},{"start":627.195,"end":637.168,"text":"這句話是有問題的但是就是所謂因為其實半導體產業我其實計算過台灣現在整個在所有的供應鏈我們在佔不到兩成"},{"start":638.595,"end":640.235,"text":"部長,這個道理我都懂所以我才替台灣人報不平所以我們都做到這樣了川普總統還說台灣搶了美國的晶片"},{"start":664.801,"end":681.311,"text":"所以他未來會不會在這方面克重稅或對台灣下重手這是外交部要強力去關注的您同意嗎?對,我們都密切注意當中那如果有任何的變動是他真的按照他過去的說法因為"},{"start":682.111,"end":705.573,"text":"我也坦白跟部長說他可能過去說他未來不一定會做這也是有可能的並沒有要給外交部過大的壓力但如果你們觀察到真的他繼續針對台灣的半導體要求我們提供任何的不合理的服務項目或者是關稅或者是金錢、經濟等等的話外交部會向美方嚴正的提出抗議嗎?"},{"start":707.827,"end":711.93,"text":"其實我跟委員報告美國的這些半導體的專家、業者還有媒體都已經替我們說了"},{"start":735.247,"end":736.008,"text":"他替我們說不如我們自己說如果別人都幫我們說但我們卻不幫自己說的話"},{"start":750.505,"end":763.894,"text":"所以請部長,如果川普總統他當選以後繼續維持選舉期間的選舉口號跟步調沒有改變的話請外交部一定要嚴正的提出譴責保護台灣的半導體產業,可以嗎?"},{"start":767.131,"end":780.858,"text":"我覺得他是個法治國家就要看他提的法案具體的內容啦沒有我就說假使發生這種狀況嘛因為這是有可能發生的狀況嘛沒有當然最好我們都樂得開心啊但假使國會也通過了美國總統也這麼做了那"},{"start":782.819,"end":791.464,"text":"我們是不是就要發表嚴正的抗議並且要實質上的去做溝通你是不是要承諾有這件事情而不是說我們一定會去溝通的其他人有幫我們講話我們就算了我們要為自己發聲保留台灣的半導體這是我們的經濟命脈從國民黨早期執政的時候一個豆漿會然後呢想出我們要做半導體一路一路一路到現在我們在大樹之下乘涼"},{"start":810.276,"end":810.416,"text":"徐巧芯"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":295,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時26分）謝謝主席，我們有請林部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：今天大家都很關心美國選舉的結果，川普這個人的個性，外界普遍都認為他是比較不充滿確定性的、以美國利益為至上的，所以他在第二任的競選口號才會叫「Make America Great Again」，雖然他充滿不確定性，但是美國的臺灣通卜睿哲曾經說過，川普是美國近代史上對防衛臺灣最不以為然的總統，川普談價格不談價值，講利益不重道義，我們目前跟美國的關係剛好不是這樣子，很多都是感情牌。請問政府認為，在這個部分，當川普以講求利益為主、感情為輔的狀況之下，你覺得臺美的關係在川普跟拜登交接之後，會有哪一些差別？請注意喔！我沒有說美國會不支持臺灣，我要問的是，會有哪一些的差別是外交部現在所評估的？"],["林部長佳龍：其實在川普當總統的時候，有很多對臺灣政策的創新……"],["徐委員巧芯：那是過去，我剛剛講，因為他充滿不確定性，所以2016年的川普跟2024年的川普未必一樣，他的發言經過這幾年來也是上上下下、上竄下跳，他2016年的說法版本跟他現在的說法版本是不一樣的，所以我們要怎麼樣去因應這樣一個不確定性的危機，這是我要請教你的問題。"],["林部長佳龍：我想經濟對他來講是目的也是一個手段，所以他會用關稅當作一定的保護主義，這個當然對雙方會有影響，他其實是來做一個就是leverage，他想用經濟，尤其是關稅來提高他外交的利益。"],["徐委員巧芯：制裁一些國家，以創造美國的經濟利益，讓美國人能夠賺錢，讓美國的股市能夠變好，這也是為什麼這次川普……"],["林部長佳龍：讓美國的人民能夠就業，製造業能夠重返美國。"],["徐委員巧芯：這也是為什麼美國這次會選給川普的主要原因之一，但是他在這次選舉期間的政見，有好幾樣跟臺灣是有關的，他在競選時期曾說過，要求臺灣的國防預算要提升至5%到10%GDP的這個部分，國防部昨天已經有表態說不可能了，但這是美國川普總統的政見，我們又知道他是一個非常tough、非常強悍的人，也不知道他當選之後，會不會有這樣子的一個強迫。我們看一下這張投影片，從107年開始我們的國防預算是1.95%；到了114年度變成2.45%，增加了2,885億元，增幅已經高達80.47%；如果明（115）年增加到GDP的10%，要再增加7.55%GDP，會直接往上飆升成這個模樣。","另外一部分我會問國防部，但我今天要問外交部的是，請問這方面要怎麼幫國防部去跟美方溝通，說我們沒有辦法提供10%的國防預算，因為這個圖太可怕了，我試算出來後，是2.6兆的數字，本來的國防預算才多少，而且這已經占政府預算比例很多了，民主黨他們要求、希望我們提高到3%，所以離2.45%是差了一點點，可是現在他們的標準是希望達到5%到10%，如果真的上到10%的話，會變成2.6兆的國防預算，所以我相信部長的角色，配合國防部昨天說的不可能，勢必要跟美方溝通，請問我們有什麼條件、什麼方式、什麼方向來跟美國溝通？"],["林部長佳龍：簡單跟委員報告，我會跟他這樣來溝通，過去8年來，我們國防預算持續增加，將近倍增，未來也會繼續增加。在計算國防預算上，我們要去說明，其實臺灣現在的退輔會、臺灣現在的全社會防衛韌性、臺灣現在的兵役從4個月恢復到1年，其實這個都是國防預算，表示我們的計算標準不一定一樣，所以我們重新計算一下，而且這也包括未來增加的趨勢，畢竟我們本來就要增加了。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長，您這樣講就不對了，因為在川普的政策裡面，是分成軍購費用跟保護費用，這件事您知道嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：沒有講「保護費用」這個字！"],["徐委員巧芯：有啊！他有講保護費啊！"],["林部長佳龍：他講到付費，我們本來就在付費，因為我們那麼多的國防預算……"],["徐委員巧芯：部長，他把軍購跟保護，也就是服務費用分成兩筆，在他的論述裡面，這是不同的，如果您有仔細看的話。"],["林部長佳龍：這裡他沒有駐軍，是我們自己在支持我們龐大的軍力，現在服役又提高到一年，我的意思是說，這個計算的基礎以及他的項目，我覺得大方向上我們跟他並沒有不一樣，只是他講的所謂5%或10%這個數字，這是一個趨勢，我們的趨勢本來就在持續增加中，所以我會用這種方式來溝通，而不是我不同意你的主張，我們的主張有一致的方向，但是怎麼做也要有執行力，比如說，我們採購了200億美金的軍購案，他都還沒有辦法給我們，他也有點理虧，所以我是覺得國際談判上也是要儘量去溝通。"],["徐委員巧芯：我懂你的意思，這個沒錯，我支持林佳龍部長，他們欠我們的武器，他們要給我們，我們才能去跟他購買新的武器，不然很多武器都延遲交付，然後你叫我增加10%的GDP、暴增成如此，這個臺灣民眾如何能接受！而且我們臺灣的財政也無法負擔，所以麻煩我們部長朝這個方向去跟美方做溝通。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["徐委員巧芯：但我剛剛談到的是保護費的概念，不要講保護費，講服務費好了，這樣講比較好聽，不然好像被人家黑道說這是什麼圍事錢，就是他是分成服務的費用，也就是說要不要出兵來協助臺灣等等或駐軍等等的費用，跟軍事採購的費用，我想請教的是，這一筆服務費，從外交部的角度來說，你們會跟他溝通要付還是不付？"],["林部長佳龍：我們並沒有付給他，我們是付給自己。"],["徐委員巧芯：付給自己是什麼意思？"],["林部長佳龍：就是增加我們的國防預算，包括我們怎麼去計算，現在單單所謂國防安全的全社會防禦韌性，這個也是美國叫我們做的……"],["徐委員巧芯：這是美國叫我們做的？"],["林部長佳龍：是啊！美國希望強化我們的社會防禦韌性……"],["徐委員巧芯：好！那我知道了！"],["林部長佳龍：因為像俄烏戰爭之後；像芬蘭、立陶宛等等都是。"],["徐委員巧芯：你這樣講，我非常清楚了。","再來，我想要問一個問題，川普上任以後，對於烏克蘭的巨額協助可能會停止。因為川普對於烏克蘭的戰爭一直是不以為然的，但是川普又是一個……我不要講他嗜錢如命，但是他對美國的利益至上這件事情是無從置喙的，但拜登政府任內提供了包含PDA以及給臺灣的軍購融資，基本上，在共和黨上任之後，可能會停止FMF的援助。請問，當拜登政府提供給我們的免費軍援，也就是PDA跟FMF停止時，外交部要怎麼協助國防部與共和黨溝通，請他們繼續免費提供臺灣軍援？"],["林部長佳龍：其實美國國會所通過的法案是有約束力的，姑且不講PDA和FMF，像NDAA、NDIS是有具體的撥款或項目，不過不一定只來自所謂Presidential Drawdown Authority這樣的機制。"],["徐委員巧芯：那都是可以改的！"],["林部長佳龍：對於國會選舉我們有仔細觀察，其實共和黨國會議員挺臺的力道非常大……"],["徐委員巧芯：挺臺力道高歸高，但要給錢時又是另外一回事！"],["林部長佳龍：我們自己採購武器，自己付錢是很自然的，我們要增加自我防衛，一定要……"],["徐委員巧芯：但PDA跟FMF都是他們提供的……部長，PDA跟FMF都是美國免費提供軍援給臺灣，這是拜登上任以後才有的政策。所以我要的講是，如果川普改了這項政策，變成不提供了，外交部有沒有管道或我們會不會針對這部分向美方抗議？"],["林部長佳龍：不會。"],["徐委員巧芯：不會？沒關係，是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：我們有很多管道，譬如我剛剛講的NDAA、NDIS，非常多。"],["徐委員巧芯：知道了……"],["林部長佳龍：美國國會通過的法案跟撥款……"],["徐委員巧芯：PDA和FMF的金額有多高，我建議部長回去再了解一下。主席，借我一分鐘，我問最後一個問題。川普在競選期間說，臺灣搶走美國的半導體，部長，您同意他說的這句話嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：這句話是有問題的！我計算過半導體產業，其實現在整個供應鏈臺灣大概占不到兩成……"],["徐委員巧芯：對啊。"],["林部長佳龍：我們主要是在製造端，所以我們臺灣賺一塊，美國賺三塊……"],["徐委員巧芯：連這個他都說我們搶。"],["林部長佳龍：而且台積電的外資占了六、七成，這整個供應鏈裡，我們要幫他做……"],["徐委員巧芯：部長，道理我都懂，所以才替臺灣人抱不平！我們都做到這樣了，川普總統還說臺灣搶了美國的晶片！他未來會不會在這方面課重稅或對臺灣下重手，這是外交部要強力關注的，您同意嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：對，我們都密切注意當中。"],["徐委員巧芯：如果有任何變動，也就是他真的按照他過去的說法……我坦白跟部長說，他過去說的未來不一定會做，這也是有可能，我並沒有要給外交部過大的壓力。但如果你們觀察到他真的繼續針對臺灣半導體，要求我們提供任何不合理的服務項目或關稅或金錢、經濟等等的話，外交部會向美方嚴正的提出抗議嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：如果有法令的修改，基本上要經過國會……"],["徐委員巧芯：對，我說通過之後。"],["林部長佳龍：要看到項目，我不能這樣概括而論。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我說，川普繼續說臺灣搶走美國半導體，就算他只是說說，但全世界的人都聽到了，外交部要做何反應呢？"],["林部長佳龍：跟委員報告，美國的半導體專家、業者還有媒體，都已經替我們說了，我們只要把他們的說法好好……"],["徐委員巧芯：他替我們說……"],["林部長佳龍：繼續溝通，因為選舉過去後會有一段沉澱期……"],["徐委員巧芯：知道。"],["林部長佳龍：大家回到問題裡來看怎麼解決……"],["徐委員巧芯：他替我們說，不如我們自己說。如果別人都幫我們說，但我們卻不幫自己說的話……"],["林部長佳龍：我們一定要幫自己說。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，所以請部長注意，川普總統當選後，如果繼續維持選舉期間的選舉口號和步調沒有改變的話，請外交部一定要嚴正提出譴責，保護臺灣的半導體產業，可以嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：它是個法治國家，所以要看他提的法案具體與內容。"],["徐委員巧芯：我是說假使發生這種狀況！因為這是有可能發生的狀況，沒有當然最好，我們都樂得開心啊！但假使國會通過了，美國總統也這麼做了，我們是不是要發表嚴正抗議，並做實質上的溝通？你是不是要承諾這件事情，而不是說……"],["林部長佳龍：我們一定會去溝通的。"],["徐委員巧芯：其他人有幫我們講話，我們就算了。但我們要為自己發聲，保留臺灣的半導體，這是我們的經濟命脈。從國民黨早期執政時的豆漿會，想出我們要做半導體，這一路、一路走來到現在！我們在大樹之下乘涼，怎麼能讓別人拿大刀把樹砍倒呢？"],["林部長佳龍：不會的。"],["徐委員巧芯：拜託，我們的……"],["林部長佳龍：因為樹上長的果子美國摘收的最多，所以他沒有必要砍掉這棵樹啊。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是！果子我們要吃啊！這個人如果把所有的果子都摘掉，全部獨吞了，我們要吃什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：樹可能就死了。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，所以這部分要拜託部長！"],["林部長佳龍：對這部分我們會跟他溝通。"],["徐委員巧芯：時間到了，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員，部長請回。待會洪申翰委員質詢完畢之後休息5分鐘。"],["主席（徐委員巧芯代）：我們有請下一位林憶君委員上臺發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":364,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-11","speakers":["林憶君","王定宇","陳冠廷","黃仁","馬文君","林楚茵","徐巧芯","羅美玲","沈伯洋","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","賴士葆","李坤城","牛煦庭","羅智強","葉元之","陳永康"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2024-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1139501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、大陸委員會報告「美國總統大選後，對於美中台三邊關係及未來國際局勢發展\n之影響」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139501_00018"}}}