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354.01, \"end\": 354.15, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 354.15, \"end\": 354.17, \"score\": 0.111}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 354.17, \"end\": 354.25, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 354.25, \"end\": 354.27, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 354.27, \"end\": 354.29, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,776 --> 00:00:20,309\n發主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府機關社長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請政部長、還有法務部的郭司長、速發部的牛司長、國建署的賈副署長以及情治警察局的陳副局長好謝謝以上五位\n\n2\n00:00:26,704 --> 00:00:44,624\n委員好部長不好意思因為今天你的部分比較少我就簡單的說今天我們在講電子煙你知道所謂的喪屍煙彈就是所謂的伊托米子它事實上放在電子煙吸食的你大概知道吧請問國建署的副署長那如果我們把這個喪屍煙彈改三級改二級你是否支持\n\n3\n00:00:45,731 --> 00:00:56,088\n什麼叫二級毒品?二級毒品叫什麼?安非他命、大麻、搖頭丸三級是K他命你覺得上次驗案有沒有到二級的程度那麼嚴重?我們尊重法務部的決定法務部決定呢?\n\n4\n00:00:58,061 --> 00:01:24,018\n本委員報告我們將在下個禮拜的11月14號要召開審議委員會如果通過了就會改列部長謝謝您待會您看螢幕就可以了我問這句問其他人好來國憲署請教一下電子煙透過網路銷售你們報告說網路上看到的所謂的電子糖果也可能是假冒的電子煙上次業態也是如此那目前在網路平台上所查售查獲的銷售的違禁品你們是裁罰平台裁罰賣家還是都罰都罰\n\n5\n00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,264\n賣家草目前我們確實比較困難但是跟委員報告賣家我們現在採除了115件來我們看看跟你講一個過程來很快的\n\n6\n00:01:45,646 --> 00:02:10,943\n通常呢,賣違禁品他找到人頭在電商平台,被抓到就裁罰平台但是呢,如果這個人頭也被裁罰的話呢他就再換個人頭,就有無限的循環其實呢,最困難的是什麼你裁罰平台,可能但是你要裁罰到人頭因為有的人是持售出借或者他宣稱被盜用,我們可能看下一頁其實呢,上市有沒有可能循這個方式銷售呃,陳副局長,刑事警察局有沒有可能會不會用這個電商平台銷售\n\n7\n00:02:16,409 --> 00:02:43,377\n我想他包裝的形式很多,這個我們也不太清楚那請問一下檢法務部司長出借平台帳號販售違禁煙品有沒有什麼法律責任到目前為止可能幫助犯的部分還可以用得上那這個可能要個案來...OK,出借平台其實遇到的法律制裁相對的風險低往下看所以我們看一下電商平台,請問牛司長是不是要落實KYC\n\n8\n00:02:44,469 --> 00:03:10,438\n這部分我們素產署正在處理當中那我等一下請素產署好來我繼續講目前我們素產署第三方支付的時候它可以自願加入能量登錄但是如果你不加入你就沒辦法用洗防法來約束它因此如果它加入你可以落實KYCKYC說你出現人頭你就不能推脫但是它如果不加入你不能確定它是被盜用所以被抓到的話它都宣稱說我是被盜用署長副署長是不是這樣子\n\n9\n00:03:14,248 --> 00:03:17,122\n目前是要求都是要用實名的方式。謝謝。\n\n10\n00:03:18,194 --> 00:03:38,867\n目前要求對阿拉伯能量登錄事實上差很多往下看什麼意思呢詐騙券他有三種方法他不用進入你的三方支付比如說我在7月4號就問過了他用條碼現金掃條碼去換什麼虛擬貨幣或他用外國信用卡我在10月26號問過財政委員會或者說他透過直播主他去買點數他用遊戲點數來充當賣給直播主其實這個過程都查不到您知道嗎\n\n11\n00:03:45,520 --> 00:04:12,201\n你都查不到嗎?你查不到路徑嗎?那請問司長,那個法務部的司長,查不到路徑你能夠罰嗎?因為我們個案上找不到真正的被告,那就...是的,所以找不到嘛,所以就遏止不了往下看。所以呢,我在10月7號的時候問過我們部長,部長說,欸,我們在平台上無法追蹤的這個教育用洗髮法納管,你支持點數也要納管嗎?你問司長,那時候部長是不是都支持?\n\n12\n00:04:13,381 --> 00:04:13,521\n副主長\n\n13\n00:04:35,496 --> 00:04:52,771\n因為時間的關係你講不出來我告訴你今天為什麼我的重點要讓部長知道讓正部長知道因為現在透過很多網路上下一頁我們用遊戲點數用其他的方式主管機關如果不能要求電商平台達到所有的都要納管KYC金流的部分\n\n14\n00:04:53,291 --> 00:05:19,799\n平台沒有讓你管KYC你就是在家中裁罰平台這些人頭還是很容易找到啦他也不用去繳交犯罪所得所以最後一頁好我們往下看齁最後一頁齁所以呢電商平台販售的這個鼻息棒政務長最後一題問你齁你知道有個鼻息棒嗎現在學生可以去買鼻息棒喔它是電子煙的替代品有沒有聽過沒有聽過署長彭署長你有沒有聽過鼻息棒\n\n15\n00:05:21,951 --> 00:05:29,855\n請教育部要嚴防學生現在如果沒有電子煙他們就用這個方式取代最後我的結論主席站起來了是不是請我們在座包括我們的政部長包括我們的訴發署\n\n16\n00:05:43,503 --> 00:05:54,290\n法務部透過人頭於網路平台上洗錢及電商平台販售違禁品有效溯源去溯源犯罪者以點數教育者一同用這個方案提出出面報告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1776\t20309\t發主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府機關社長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請政部長、還有法務部的郭司長、速發部的牛司長、國建署的賈副署長以及情治警察局的陳副局長好 謝謝 以上五位\n26704\t44624\t委員好部長不好意思因為今天你的部分比較少我就簡單的說今天我們在講電子煙你知道所謂的喪屍煙彈就是所謂的伊托米子它事實上放在電子煙吸食的你大概知道吧請問國建署的副署長那如果我們把這個喪屍煙彈改三級改二級你是否支持\n45731\t56088\t什麼叫二級毒品?二級毒品叫什麼?安非他命、大麻、搖頭丸三級是K他命你覺得上次驗案有沒有到二級的程度那麼嚴重?我們尊重法務部的決定法務部決定呢?\n58061\t84018\t本委員報告我們將在下個禮拜的11月14號要召開審議委員會如果通過了就會改列部長謝謝您 待會您看螢幕就可以了我問這句問其他人好 來國憲署請教一下電子煙透過網路銷售你們報告說網路上看到的所謂的電子糖果也可能是假冒的電子煙上次業態也是如此那目前在網路平台上所查售查獲的銷售的違禁品你們是裁罰平台裁罰賣家還是都罰都罰\n86400\t90264\t賣家草目前我們確實比較困難但是跟委員報告賣家我們現在採除了115件來我們看看跟你講一個過程來很快的\n105646\t130943\t通常呢,賣違禁品他找到人頭在電商平台,被抓到就裁罰平台但是呢,如果這個人頭也被裁罰的話呢他就再換個人頭,就有無限的循環其實呢,最困難的是什麼你裁罰平台,可能但是你要裁罰到人頭因為有的人是持售出借或者他宣稱被盜用,我們可能看下一頁其實呢,上市有沒有可能循這個方式銷售呃,陳副局長,刑事警察局有沒有可能會不會用這個電商平台銷售\n136409\t163377\t我想他包裝的形式很多,這個我們也不太清楚那請問一下檢法務部司長出借平台帳號販售違禁煙品有沒有什麼法律責任到目前為止可能幫助犯的部分還可以用得上那這個可能要個案來...OK,出借平台其實遇到的法律制裁相對的風險低往下看所以我們看一下電商平台,請問牛司長是不是要落實KYC\n164469\t190438\t這部分我們素產署正在處理當中那我等一下請素產署好來我繼續講目前我們素產署第三方支付的時候它可以自願加入能量登錄但是如果你不加入你就沒辦法用洗防法來約束它因此如果它加入你可以落實KYCKYC說你出現人頭你就不能推脫但是它如果不加入你不能確定它是被盜用所以被抓到的話它都宣稱說我是被盜用署長副署長是不是這樣子\n194248\t197122\t目前是要求都是要用實名的方式。謝謝。\n198194\t218867\t目前要求對阿拉伯能量登錄事實上差很多往下看什麼意思呢詐騙券他有三種方法他不用進入你的三方支付比如說我在7月4號就問過了他用條碼現金掃條碼去換什麼虛擬貨幣或他用外國信用卡我在10月26號問過財政委員會或者說他透過直播主他去買點數他用遊戲點數來充當賣給直播主其實這個過程都查不到您知道嗎\n225520\t252201\t你都查不到嗎?你查不到路徑嗎?那請問司長,那個法務部的司長,查不到路徑你能夠罰嗎?因為我們個案上找不到真正的被告,那就...是的,所以找不到嘛,所以就遏止不了往下看。所以呢,我在10月7號的時候問過我們部長,部長說,欸,我們在平台上無法追蹤的這個教育用洗髮法納管,你支持點數也要納管嗎?你問司長,那時候部長是不是都支持?\n253381\t253521\t副主長\n275496\t292771\t因為時間的關係你講不出來我告訴你今天為什麼我的重點要讓部長知道讓正部長知道因為現在透過很多網路上下一頁我們用遊戲點數用其他的方式主管機關如果不能要求電商平台達到所有的都要納管KYC金流的部分\n293291\t319799\t平台沒有讓你管KYC你就是在家中裁罰平台這些人頭還是很容易找到啦他也不用去繳交犯罪所得所以 最後一頁好 我們往下看齁 最後一頁齁所以呢 電商平台販售的這個鼻息棒政務長最後一題問你齁你知道有個鼻息棒嗎現在學生可以去買鼻息棒喔它是電子煙的替代品有沒有聽過沒有聽過署長彭署長 你有沒有聽過鼻息棒\n321951\t329855\t請教育部要嚴防學生現在如果沒有電子煙他們就用這個方式取代最後我的結論主席站起來了是不是請我們在座包括我們的政部長包括我們的訴發署\n343503\t354290\t法務部透過人頭於網路平台上洗錢及電商平台販售違禁品有效溯源去溯源犯罪者以點數教育者一同用這個方案提出出面報告\n","txt":"發主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府機關社長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請政部長、還有法務部的郭司長、速發部的牛司長、國建署的賈副署長以及情治警察局的陳副局長好 謝謝 以上五位\n委員好部長不好意思因為今天你的部分比較少我就簡單的說今天我們在講電子煙你知道所謂的喪屍煙彈就是所謂的伊托米子它事實上放在電子煙吸食的你大概知道吧請問國建署的副署長那如果我們把這個喪屍煙彈改三級改二級你是否支持\n什麼叫二級毒品?二級毒品叫什麼?安非他命、大麻、搖頭丸三級是K他命你覺得上次驗案有沒有到二級的程度那麼嚴重?我們尊重法務部的決定法務部決定呢?\n本委員報告我們將在下個禮拜的11月14號要召開審議委員會如果通過了就會改列部長謝謝您 待會您看螢幕就可以了我問這句問其他人好 來國憲署請教一下電子煙透過網路銷售你們報告說網路上看到的所謂的電子糖果也可能是假冒的電子煙上次業態也是如此那目前在網路平台上所查售查獲的銷售的違禁品你們是裁罰平台裁罰賣家還是都罰都罰\n賣家草目前我們確實比較困難但是跟委員報告賣家我們現在採除了115件來我們看看跟你講一個過程來很快的\n通常呢,賣違禁品他找到人頭在電商平台,被抓到就裁罰平台但是呢,如果這個人頭也被裁罰的話呢他就再換個人頭,就有無限的循環其實呢,最困難的是什麼你裁罰平台,可能但是你要裁罰到人頭因為有的人是持售出借或者他宣稱被盜用,我們可能看下一頁其實呢,上市有沒有可能循這個方式銷售呃,陳副局長,刑事警察局有沒有可能會不會用這個電商平台銷售\n我想他包裝的形式很多,這個我們也不太清楚那請問一下檢法務部司長出借平台帳號販售違禁煙品有沒有什麼法律責任到目前為止可能幫助犯的部分還可以用得上那這個可能要個案來...OK,出借平台其實遇到的法律制裁相對的風險低往下看所以我們看一下電商平台,請問牛司長是不是要落實KYC\n這部分我們素產署正在處理當中那我等一下請素產署好來我繼續講目前我們素產署第三方支付的時候它可以自願加入能量登錄但是如果你不加入你就沒辦法用洗防法來約束它因此如果它加入你可以落實KYCKYC說你出現人頭你就不能推脫但是它如果不加入你不能確定它是被盜用所以被抓到的話它都宣稱說我是被盜用署長副署長是不是這樣子\n目前是要求都是要用實名的方式。謝謝。\n目前要求對阿拉伯能量登錄事實上差很多往下看什麼意思呢詐騙券他有三種方法他不用進入你的三方支付比如說我在7月4號就問過了他用條碼現金掃條碼去換什麼虛擬貨幣或他用外國信用卡我在10月26號問過財政委員會或者說他透過直播主他去買點數他用遊戲點數來充當賣給直播主其實這個過程都查不到您知道嗎\n你都查不到嗎?你查不到路徑嗎?那請問司長,那個法務部的司長,查不到路徑你能夠罰嗎?因為我們個案上找不到真正的被告,那就...是的,所以找不到嘛,所以就遏止不了往下看。所以呢,我在10月7號的時候問過我們部長,部長說,欸,我們在平台上無法追蹤的這個教育用洗髮法納管,你支持點數也要納管嗎?你問司長,那時候部長是不是都支持?\n副主長\n因為時間的關係你講不出來我告訴你今天為什麼我的重點要讓部長知道讓正部長知道因為現在透過很多網路上下一頁我們用遊戲點數用其他的方式主管機關如果不能要求電商平台達到所有的都要納管KYC金流的部分\n平台沒有讓你管KYC你就是在家中裁罰平台這些人頭還是很容易找到啦他也不用去繳交犯罪所得所以 最後一頁好 我們往下看齁 最後一頁齁所以呢 電商平台販售的這個鼻息棒政務長最後一題問你齁你知道有個鼻息棒嗎現在學生可以去買鼻息棒喔它是電子煙的替代品有沒有聽過沒有聽過署長彭署長 你有沒有聽過鼻息棒\n請教育部要嚴防學生現在如果沒有電子煙他們就用這個方式取代最後我的結論主席站起來了是不是請我們在座包括我們的政部長包括我們的訴發署\n法務部透過人頭於網路平台上洗錢及電商平台販售違禁品有效溯源去溯源犯罪者以點數教育者一同用這個方案提出出面報告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.776 --> 00:20.309\n發主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府機關社長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請政部長、還有法務部的郭司長、速發部的牛司長、國建署的賈副署長以及情治警察局的陳副局長好謝謝以上五位\n\n00:26.704 --> 00:44.624\n委員好部長不好意思因為今天你的部分比較少我就簡單的說今天我們在講電子煙你知道所謂的喪屍煙彈就是所謂的伊托米子它事實上放在電子煙吸食的你大概知道吧請問國建署的副署長那如果我們把這個喪屍煙彈改三級改二級你是否支持\n\n00:45.731 --> 00:56.088\n什麼叫二級毒品?二級毒品叫什麼?安非他命、大麻、搖頭丸三級是K他命你覺得上次驗案有沒有到二級的程度那麼嚴重?我們尊重法務部的決定法務部決定呢?\n\n00:58.061 --> 01:24.018\n本委員報告我們將在下個禮拜的11月14號要召開審議委員會如果通過了就會改列部長謝謝您待會您看螢幕就可以了我問這句問其他人好來國憲署請教一下電子煙透過網路銷售你們報告說網路上看到的所謂的電子糖果也可能是假冒的電子煙上次業態也是如此那目前在網路平台上所查售查獲的銷售的違禁品你們是裁罰平台裁罰賣家還是都罰都罰\n\n01:26.400 --> 01:30.264\n賣家草目前我們確實比較困難但是跟委員報告賣家我們現在採除了115件來我們看看跟你講一個過程來很快的\n\n01:45.646 --> 02:10.943\n通常呢,賣違禁品他找到人頭在電商平台,被抓到就裁罰平台但是呢,如果這個人頭也被裁罰的話呢他就再換個人頭,就有無限的循環其實呢,最困難的是什麼你裁罰平台,可能但是你要裁罰到人頭因為有的人是持售出借或者他宣稱被盜用,我們可能看下一頁其實呢,上市有沒有可能循這個方式銷售呃,陳副局長,刑事警察局有沒有可能會不會用這個電商平台銷售\n\n02:16.409 --> 02:43.377\n我想他包裝的形式很多,這個我們也不太清楚那請問一下檢法務部司長出借平台帳號販售違禁煙品有沒有什麼法律責任到目前為止可能幫助犯的部分還可以用得上那這個可能要個案來...OK,出借平台其實遇到的法律制裁相對的風險低往下看所以我們看一下電商平台,請問牛司長是不是要落實KYC\n\n02:44.469 --> 03:10.438\n這部分我們素產署正在處理當中那我等一下請素產署好來我繼續講目前我們素產署第三方支付的時候它可以自願加入能量登錄但是如果你不加入你就沒辦法用洗防法來約束它因此如果它加入你可以落實KYCKYC說你出現人頭你就不能推脫但是它如果不加入你不能確定它是被盜用所以被抓到的話它都宣稱說我是被盜用署長副署長是不是這樣子\n\n03:14.248 --> 03:17.122\n目前是要求都是要用實名的方式。謝謝。\n\n03:18.194 --> 03:38.867\n目前要求對阿拉伯能量登錄事實上差很多往下看什麼意思呢詐騙券他有三種方法他不用進入你的三方支付比如說我在7月4號就問過了他用條碼現金掃條碼去換什麼虛擬貨幣或他用外國信用卡我在10月26號問過財政委員會或者說他透過直播主他去買點數他用遊戲點數來充當賣給直播主其實這個過程都查不到您知道嗎\n\n03:45.520 --> 04:12.201\n你都查不到嗎?你查不到路徑嗎?那請問司長,那個法務部的司長,查不到路徑你能夠罰嗎?因為我們個案上找不到真正的被告,那就...是的,所以找不到嘛,所以就遏止不了往下看。所以呢,我在10月7號的時候問過我們部長,部長說,欸,我們在平台上無法追蹤的這個教育用洗髮法納管,你支持點數也要納管嗎?你問司長,那時候部長是不是都支持?\n\n04:13.381 --> 04:13.521\n副主長\n\n04:35.496 --> 04:52.771\n因為時間的關係你講不出來我告訴你今天為什麼我的重點要讓部長知道讓正部長知道因為現在透過很多網路上下一頁我們用遊戲點數用其他的方式主管機關如果不能要求電商平台達到所有的都要納管KYC金流的部分\n\n04:53.291 --> 05:19.799\n平台沒有讓你管KYC你就是在家中裁罰平台這些人頭還是很容易找到啦他也不用去繳交犯罪所得所以最後一頁好我們往下看齁最後一頁齁所以呢電商平台販售的這個鼻息棒政務長最後一題問你齁你知道有個鼻息棒嗎現在學生可以去買鼻息棒喔它是電子煙的替代品有沒有聽過沒有聽過署長彭署長你有沒有聽過鼻息棒\n\n05:21.951 --> 05:29.855\n請教育部要嚴防學生現在如果沒有電子煙他們就用這個方式取代最後我的結論主席站起來了是不是請我們在座包括我們的政部長包括我們的訴發署\n\n05:43.503 --> 05:54.290\n法務部透過人頭於網路平台上洗錢及電商平台販售違禁品有效溯源去溯源犯罪者以點數教育者一同用這個方案提出出面報告\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.776,"end":20.309,"text":"發主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府機關社長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請政部長、還有法務部的郭司長、速發部的牛司長、國建署的賈副署長以及情治警察局的陳副局長好 謝謝 以上五位"},{"start":26.704,"end":44.624,"text":"委員好部長不好意思因為今天你的部分比較少我就簡單的說今天我們在講電子煙你知道所謂的喪屍煙彈就是所謂的伊托米子它事實上放在電子煙吸食的你大概知道吧請問國建署的副署長那如果我們把這個喪屍煙彈改三級改二級你是否支持"},{"start":45.731,"end":56.088,"text":"什麼叫二級毒品?二級毒品叫什麼?安非他命、大麻、搖頭丸三級是K他命你覺得上次驗案有沒有到二級的程度那麼嚴重?我們尊重法務部的決定法務部決定呢?"},{"start":58.061,"end":84.018,"text":"本委員報告我們將在下個禮拜的11月14號要召開審議委員會如果通過了就會改列部長謝謝您 待會您看螢幕就可以了我問這句問其他人好 來國憲署請教一下電子煙透過網路銷售你們報告說網路上看到的所謂的電子糖果也可能是假冒的電子煙上次業態也是如此那目前在網路平台上所查售查獲的銷售的違禁品你們是裁罰平台裁罰賣家還是都罰都罰"},{"start":86.4,"end":90.264,"text":"賣家草目前我們確實比較困難但是跟委員報告賣家我們現在採除了115件來我們看看跟你講一個過程來很快的"},{"start":105.646,"end":130.943,"text":"通常呢,賣違禁品他找到人頭在電商平台,被抓到就裁罰平台但是呢,如果這個人頭也被裁罰的話呢他就再換個人頭,就有無限的循環其實呢,最困難的是什麼你裁罰平台,可能但是你要裁罰到人頭因為有的人是持售出借或者他宣稱被盜用,我們可能看下一頁其實呢,上市有沒有可能循這個方式銷售呃,陳副局長,刑事警察局有沒有可能會不會用這個電商平台銷售"},{"start":136.409,"end":163.377,"text":"我想他包裝的形式很多,這個我們也不太清楚那請問一下檢法務部司長出借平台帳號販售違禁煙品有沒有什麼法律責任到目前為止可能幫助犯的部分還可以用得上那這個可能要個案來...OK,出借平台其實遇到的法律制裁相對的風險低往下看所以我們看一下電商平台,請問牛司長是不是要落實KYC"},{"start":164.469,"end":190.438,"text":"這部分我們素產署正在處理當中那我等一下請素產署好來我繼續講目前我們素產署第三方支付的時候它可以自願加入能量登錄但是如果你不加入你就沒辦法用洗防法來約束它因此如果它加入你可以落實KYCKYC說你出現人頭你就不能推脫但是它如果不加入你不能確定它是被盜用所以被抓到的話它都宣稱說我是被盜用署長副署長是不是這樣子"},{"start":194.248,"end":197.122,"text":"目前是要求都是要用實名的方式。謝謝。"},{"start":198.194,"end":218.867,"text":"目前要求對阿拉伯能量登錄事實上差很多往下看什麼意思呢詐騙券他有三種方法他不用進入你的三方支付比如說我在7月4號就問過了他用條碼現金掃條碼去換什麼虛擬貨幣或他用外國信用卡我在10月26號問過財政委員會或者說他透過直播主他去買點數他用遊戲點數來充當賣給直播主其實這個過程都查不到您知道嗎"},{"start":225.52,"end":252.201,"text":"你都查不到嗎?你查不到路徑嗎?那請問司長,那個法務部的司長,查不到路徑你能夠罰嗎?因為我們個案上找不到真正的被告,那就...是的,所以找不到嘛,所以就遏止不了往下看。所以呢,我在10月7號的時候問過我們部長,部長說,欸,我們在平台上無法追蹤的這個教育用洗髮法納管,你支持點數也要納管嗎?你問司長,那時候部長是不是都支持?"},{"start":253.381,"end":253.521,"text":"副主長"},{"start":275.496,"end":292.771,"text":"因為時間的關係你講不出來我告訴你今天為什麼我的重點要讓部長知道讓正部長知道因為現在透過很多網路上下一頁我們用遊戲點數用其他的方式主管機關如果不能要求電商平台達到所有的都要納管KYC金流的部分"},{"start":293.291,"end":319.799,"text":"平台沒有讓你管KYC你就是在家中裁罰平台這些人頭還是很容易找到啦他也不用去繳交犯罪所得所以 最後一頁好 我們往下看齁 最後一頁齁所以呢 電商平台販售的這個鼻息棒政務長最後一題問你齁你知道有個鼻息棒嗎現在學生可以去買鼻息棒喔它是電子煙的替代品有沒有聽過沒有聽過署長彭署長 你有沒有聽過鼻息棒"},{"start":321.951,"end":329.855,"text":"請教育部要嚴防學生現在如果沒有電子煙他們就用這個方式取代最後我的結論主席站起來了是不是請我們在座包括我們的政部長包括我們的訴發署"},{"start":343.503,"end":354.29,"text":"法務部透過人頭於網路平台上洗錢及電商平台販售違禁品有效溯源去溯源犯罪者以點數教育者一同用這個方案提出出面報告"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1143,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時53分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作伙伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請鄭部長、法務部郭司長、數發部牛司長、國健署賈副署長，以及刑事警察局的陳副局長。"],["主席：好，謝謝，以上5位。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好。不好意思！因為今天你的部分比較少，我就簡單地說，今天我們在講電子煙，你知道喪屍煙彈就是所謂的依托咪酯，事實上，它是放在電子煙裡面吸食的，這個你大概知道吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：知道。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那請問國健署副署長，如果我們把喪屍煙彈從三級毒品改為二級毒品，你是否支持？什麼叫做二級毒品？二級毒品就是安非他命、大麻和搖頭丸；三級毒品是K他命。你覺得喪屍煙彈有沒有到二級毒品那麼嚴重？"],["賈副署長淑麗：我們尊重法務部的決定。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，法務部覺得呢？"],["郭司長永發：跟委員報告，我們將在下個禮拜的11月14日召開審議委員會。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果通過就會改列？"],["郭司長永發：通過後就變成二級。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。部長，謝謝您！待會你看螢幕就可以了，我繼續問其他人。國健署，請教一下，電子煙透過網路銷售，你們的報告說網路上看到的電子糖果也可能是假冒的電子煙，喪屍煙彈也是如此，目前網路平臺上所查獲到銷售的違禁品，你們是裁罰平臺？還是賣家？還是都罰？"],["賈副署長淑麗：都罰。"],["鍾委員佳濱：都罰，那賣家找得到嗎？"],["賈副署長淑麗：目前要找到賣家確實比較困難，但是跟委員報告，賣家的部分我們目前裁處了155件。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。繼續請牛司長，我們看看，我跟你講一個過程，來，很快的。通常賣違禁品的會先找人頭，在電商平臺被抓到就裁罰平臺，但是如果這個人頭也被裁罰的話，他就再換個人頭，然後就能無限地循環。其實最困難的是什麼？你可能可以裁罰到平臺，但是你要裁罰到人頭，因為有的人是售出或出借帳號，或是他宣稱是被盜用。其實喪屍煙彈有沒有可能循著這個方式銷售？刑事警察局陳副局長，有沒有可能？他們會不會用電商平臺來銷售？"],["陳副局長炯旭：它包裝的形式很多，這個我們也不敢說。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有可能嘛！那請問一下，請問法務部司長，出借平臺帳號販售違禁菸品有沒有什麼法律責任？"],["郭司長永發：到目前為止，幫助犯的部分可能還用得上，這個可能要視個案來審酌。"],["鍾委員佳濱：OK！出借平臺遇到的法律制裁相對風險較低，所以我們看一下，請問牛司長，電商平臺是不是要落實KYC？"],["牛司長信仁：這部分我們數產署正在處理當中，我等一下請數產署。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我繼續講。目前數產署的第三方支付可以自願加入能量登錄，但是他如果不加入，你就不能用洗防法來約束他，如果他加入，你可以落實KYC。KYC就是如果出借人頭，就不能推脫。但是如果他不加入，你不確定他是不是被盜用，所以他被抓到後，他都宣稱他是被盜用，副署長是不是這樣子？"],["陳副署長慧敏：目前我們都要求要用實名的方式，謝謝。"],["鍾委員佳濱：目前都要求要用實名登錄，事實上這差很多，往下看，什麼意思呢？詐騙集團有3種方法不用進入你們的三方支付，譬如我在7月4日就問過了，它可以用條碼，用現金掃條碼去換虛擬貨幣；或是它用外國信用卡，這個我10月26日在財政委員會問過；或是它透過直播主去買點數，它用遊戲點數來充當賣給直播主。其實這個過程都查不到，你知道嗎？這都查不到嘛！你查不到路徑嘛！那請問法務部司長，查不到路徑你能夠罰嗎？"],["郭司長永發：因為個案上找不到真正的被告，那就沒辦法處罰。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，找不到，所以就遏止不了。所以我10月7日的時候問過部長，部長說我們在平臺上無法追蹤到這個交易，所以無法用洗防法來納管，我問他你支持點數也要納管嗎？牛司長，部長那時候是不是都支持？"],["牛司長信仁：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那現在呢？現在說不需要，你們不願意用洗防法來納管。7月4日我在司法及法制委員會再次問了一下，請數發部將電商業者涉及洗錢的固有風險納入洗防法來納管，結果你們的結論是不是說不要納管？是不是？副署長。","因為時間的關係，你講不出來，我告訴你，今天我的重要是要讓鄭部長知道，因為現在有很多是透過網路的遊戲點數或是其他的方式，如果主管機關不能要求電商平臺所有的金流都要納管KYC，平臺沒有納管KYC，就算是加重裁罰平臺，這些人頭還是很容易找到，他也不用繳交犯罪所得。所以電商平臺販售的鼻吸棒，鄭部長，最後一題問你，你知道鼻吸棒嗎？現在學生可以去買鼻吸棒，它是電子煙的替代品，你有沒有聽過？沒有聽過？署長？彭署長，你有沒有聽過鼻吸棒？鼻吸棒是能量棒。"],["彭署長富源：抱歉！它有不同的形式，這個用詞我不曉得，不好意思。"],["鍾委員佳濱：其實這有很多都是中國製，沒有標示成分，它裡面有沒有含有害物質？請教育部要嚴防學生施用，如果現在沒有電子煙，他們就用這個方式來取代。","我最後的結論，主席站起來了，是不是請在座，包括鄭部長、數發部、法務部，研議「透過人頭於網路平臺上洗錢及電商平臺販售違禁品得有效溯源犯罪者，以點數交易者亦同」之方案，請1個月內提出書面報告，可以嗎？數發部？可以。好，法務部司長？"],["郭司長永發：我們可以協助。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以協助。教育部你們要認真的看這一本，看這一本就可以知道現在學生都是怎麼樣弄。"],["主席：鍾委員，因為時間到了，不好意思。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。謝謝主席和各位。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員，各位請回座，不好意思，我們2點還有一個法案協商，不好意思。","接下來有請林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員不在。","陳冠廷委員、陳冠廷委員，陳冠廷委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","接下來有請葉元之委員質詢，時間8加2。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":74,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-7","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","張雅琳","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","吳沛憶","林倩綺","郭昱晴","羅智強","李坤城","沈伯洋","黃健豪","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","羅廷瑋","林月琴","范雲","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","葉元之","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","林倩綺","吳春城"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1139601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部、法務部、數位發展部、內政部警政署、財政部關務署列席\n就「電子煙入侵校園危害青少年防制檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139601_00001"}}}