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\"end\": 547.566, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"祿\"}, {\"word\": \"召\", \"start\": 547.566, \"end\": 547.807, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 547.807, \"end\": 549.271, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 549.271, \"end\": 549.432, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 549.432, \"end\": 549.452, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,198 --> 00:00:20,972\n委員好主委早安今天我們開始進入預算的審查的階段預算的答詢我們當然就就預算的事情來做一下討論第一個是原住民族委員傳播大樓的進度這個計畫的總經費是多少錢我就聽到下面這塊你打帕死了17億啦17億啊17億對不對對對那目前執行的多少錢救援大隊來了\n\n2\n00:00:35,387 --> 00:01:01,568\n沒有關係,把話講清楚,本席非常同意的,沒有關係,不用擔心到今年執行了多少?大概5億5億?不止啦,8億3千萬,答案都在上面了,對不對?可是問題是什麼?一個17億的計畫,然後到現在為止只執行了8億你當然會講說這是一個分年編列的計畫,這本席是了解的但是問題是你的報告裡面也寫,你的預計的完工時間是114年的6月\n\n3\n00:01:03,830 --> 00:01:25,848\n換言之你按照現在這樣的一個狀況我們先不去追究為什麼前幾年執行率那麼差的問題我們要問的是114年的6月要完工是不是離現在差不多只剩7個多月你7個多月然後17億的計劃經費現在用了8億你要在接下來的7個月時間花掉8億元到9億元的預算有可能嗎?是不是說明一下?可是委員報告齁\n\n4\n00:01:27,186 --> 00:01:48,703\n我們原辦這個以言傳播大樓是不可能在今年就會能夠完工甚至以他的這個進度連明年我們都因為現在切工切料切的工程的施作非常非常的慢所以我們希望就是說我們預期是這樣但是我想應該是達不到\n\n5\n00:01:49,463 --> 00:01:54,387\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n6\n00:02:10,382 --> 00:02:18,910\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n7\n00:02:28,652 --> 00:02:29,893\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n8\n00:02:45,708 --> 00:02:54,872\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n9\n00:03:13,410 --> 00:03:36,693\n剩下3億多啦3億多?含室內嗎?裝修?沒有含室內裝修所以你現在8億多,主體工人做完11億你要花6億多做室內裝修?沒有沒有,那是設備設備跟攝影棚、燈光我跟你講,既然現在的狀況顯然又跟你給預算中心的報告不一樣那你就重新寫份報告吧到底接下來的那個期程跟相關的開支是什麼?\n\n10\n00:03:37,193 --> 00:03:39,176\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n11\n00:03:54,097 --> 00:03:58,119\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n12\n00:04:11,667 --> 00:04:20,330\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n13\n00:04:41,363 --> 00:04:46,624\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n14\n00:05:11,089 --> 00:05:29,079\n講一下文化基金會原住民文化基金會這個你們在原民會編列給捐助給原文會的項目因為基金會你當然有預算從公務預算來做提撥那你捐助的項目裡面這個今年明年的預算跟今年比起來\n\n15\n00:05:30,180 --> 00:05:54,742\n你的這個促進原住民族文化傳播跟教育權利的經費啊這個明年的預算是3300多萬比起今年是增加了1426萬對不對你既然編在促進原住民文化傳播跟教育權利裡面那是不是這一筆錢就應該要用來做文化傳播跟教育權利提升的相關業務是是嘛對啊你們有這樣編嗎\n\n16\n00:05:57,662 --> 00:06:09,604\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n17\n00:06:25,507 --> 00:06:27,929\n節目業務的業務費6700變6700沒變製作工程的業務費3300變3300沒變文化行銷的業務4600變4500還變少一點點更可怕的是廣播業務人事費增加2000萬業務費減少1000多萬\n\n18\n00:06:40,179 --> 00:06:43,882\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n19\n00:07:00,222 --> 00:07:05,846\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n20\n00:07:30,302 --> 00:07:58,709\n他如果是人事費他就應該是人事費不是嗎你的原民會的捐助你也有單純捐助的項目嘛或者是你要講說要因應人事調整或保障勞工權益你去這樣寫邊進來然後邊人事費增加當然沒話講嘛可是你為什麼要寫在促進文化傳播跟教育權利的業務項目裡面呢你這樣難道不會給人家感覺是我表面上給你好像我原民會你看我增加了這部分的這個支出結果實際上在貼補人事的缺額你是在粉飾太平嗎\n\n21\n00:08:00,247 --> 00:08:02,550\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n22\n00:08:10,643 --> 00:08:34,722\n感謝委員對我們的人事費的需求的支持那一千多萬的費用大部分都是人事費用來增加廣播的人員的費用那整個過去委員會沒有加薪所以在這一次8%的加薪確實讓員工比較安心我已經說了我不會反對你調整人事費我也不會反對你加薪只要事情可以做好\n\n23\n00:08:35,262 --> 00:09:01,732\n但是你這邊講說業務支出要增加的時候相應來講你文化傳播基金會的業務沒有增加這是不對的事情嘛那你要我們怎麼處理這筆預算呢這不是很奇怪嗎我們在做改進在做改進我不知道啦反正我們預算審查的時候還可以在那個但是我不希望這種粉飾太平的事情再次發生該是什麼就是什麼哪一項名目寫哪一項名目把寫清楚把話講清楚就好了好不好這個請人民會要多加油啦謝謝謝謝牛曲廷委員\n\n24\n00:09:06,343 --> 00:09:09,452\n我們請張宏祿召委進行宣達謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4198\t20972\t委員好主委早安今天我們開始進入預算的審查的階段預算的答詢我們當然就就預算的事情來做一下討論第一個是原住民族委員傳播大樓的進度這個計畫的總經費是多少錢我就聽到下面這塊你打帕死了17億啦17億啊17億對不對對對那目前執行的多少錢救援大隊來了\n35387\t61568\t沒有關係,把話講清楚,本席非常同意的,沒有關係,不用擔心到今年執行了多少?大概5億5億?不止啦,8億3千萬,答案都在上面了,對不對?可是問題是什麼?一個17億的計畫,然後到現在為止只執行了8億你當然會講說這是一個分年編列的計畫,這本席是了解的但是問題是你的報告裡面也寫,你的預計的完工時間是114年的6月\n63830\t85848\t換言之你按照現在這樣的一個狀況我們先不去追究為什麼前幾年執行率那麼差的問題我們要問的是114年的6月要完工是不是離現在差不多只剩7個多月你7個多月然後17億的計劃經費現在用了8億你要在接下來的7個月時間花掉8億元到9億元的預算有可能嗎?是不是說明一下?可是委員報告齁\n87186\t108703\t我們原辦這個以言傳播大樓是不可能在今年就會能夠完工甚至以他的這個進度連明年我們都因為現在切工切料切的工程的施作非常非常的慢所以我們希望就是說我們預期是這樣但是我想應該是達不到\n109463\t114387\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n130382\t138910\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n148652\t149893\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n165708\t174872\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n193410\t216693\t剩下3億多啦3億多?含室內嗎?裝修?沒有含室內裝修所以你現在8億多,主體工人做完11億你要花6億多做室內裝修?沒有沒有,那是設備設備跟攝影棚、燈光我跟你講,既然現在的狀況顯然又跟你給預算中心的報告不一樣那你就重新寫份報告吧到底接下來的那個期程跟相關的開支是什麼?\n217193\t219176\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n234097\t238119\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n251667\t260330\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n281363\t286624\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n311089\t329079\t講一下文化基金會原住民文化基金會這個你們在原民會編列給捐助給原文會的項目因為基金會你當然有預算從公務預算來做提撥那你捐助的項目裡面這個今年明年的預算跟今年比起來\n330180\t354742\t你的這個促進原住民族文化傳播跟教育權利的經費啊這個明年的預算是3300多萬比起今年是增加了1426萬對不對你既然編在促進原住民文化傳播跟教育權利裡面那是不是這一筆錢就應該要用來做文化傳播跟教育權利提升的相關業務是是嘛對啊你們有這樣編嗎\n357662\t369604\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n385507\t387929\t節目業務的業務費6700變6700沒變製作工程的業務費3300變3300沒變文化行銷的業務4600變4500還變少一點點更可怕的是廣播業務人事費增加2000萬業務費減少1000多萬\n400179\t403882\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n420222\t425846\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n450302\t478709\t他如果是人事費他就應該是人事費不是嗎你的原民會的捐助你也有單純捐助的項目嘛或者是你要講說要因應人事調整或保障勞工權益你去這樣寫邊進來然後邊人事費增加當然沒話講嘛可是你為什麼要寫在促進文化傳播跟教育權利的業務項目裡面呢你這樣難道不會給人家感覺是我表面上給你好像我原民會你看我增加了這部分的這個支出結果實際上在貼補人事的缺額你是在粉飾太平嗎\n480247\t482550\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n490643\t514722\t感謝委員對我們的人事費的需求的支持那一千多萬的費用大部分都是人事費用來增加廣播的人員的費用那整個過去委員會沒有加薪所以在這一次8%的加薪確實讓員工比較安心我已經說了我不會反對你調整人事費我也不會反對你加薪只要事情可以做好\n515262\t541732\t但是你這邊講說業務支出要增加的時候相應來講你文化傳播基金會的業務沒有增加這是不對的事情嘛那你要我們怎麼處理這筆預算呢這不是很奇怪嗎我們在做改進在做改進我不知道啦反正我們預算審查的時候還可以在那個但是我不希望這種粉飾太平的事情再次發生該是什麼就是什麼哪一項名目寫哪一項名目把寫清楚把話講清楚就好了好不好這個請人民會要多加油啦謝謝謝謝牛曲廷委員\n546343\t549452\t我們請張宏祿召委進行宣達謝謝\n","txt":"委員好主委早安今天我們開始進入預算的審查的階段預算的答詢我們當然就就預算的事情來做一下討論第一個是原住民族委員傳播大樓的進度這個計畫的總經費是多少錢我就聽到下面這塊你打帕死了17億啦17億啊17億對不對對對那目前執行的多少錢救援大隊來了\n沒有關係,把話講清楚,本席非常同意的,沒有關係,不用擔心到今年執行了多少?大概5億5億?不止啦,8億3千萬,答案都在上面了,對不對?可是問題是什麼?一個17億的計畫,然後到現在為止只執行了8億你當然會講說這是一個分年編列的計畫,這本席是了解的但是問題是你的報告裡面也寫,你的預計的完工時間是114年的6月\n換言之你按照現在這樣的一個狀況我們先不去追究為什麼前幾年執行率那麼差的問題我們要問的是114年的6月要完工是不是離現在差不多只剩7個多月你7個多月然後17億的計劃經費現在用了8億你要在接下來的7個月時間花掉8億元到9億元的預算有可能嗎?是不是說明一下?可是委員報告齁\n我們原辦這個以言傳播大樓是不可能在今年就會能夠完工甚至以他的這個進度連明年我們都因為現在切工切料切的工程的施作非常非常的慢所以我們希望就是說我們預期是這樣但是我想應該是達不到\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n剩下3億多啦3億多?含室內嗎?裝修?沒有含室內裝修所以你現在8億多,主體工人做完11億你要花6億多做室內裝修?沒有沒有,那是設備設備跟攝影棚、燈光我跟你講,既然現在的狀況顯然又跟你給預算中心的報告不一樣那你就重新寫份報告吧到底接下來的那個期程跟相關的開支是什麼?\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n講一下文化基金會原住民文化基金會這個你們在原民會編列給捐助給原文會的項目因為基金會你當然有預算從公務預算來做提撥那你捐助的項目裡面這個今年明年的預算跟今年比起來\n你的這個促進原住民族文化傳播跟教育權利的經費啊這個明年的預算是3300多萬比起今年是增加了1426萬對不對你既然編在促進原住民文化傳播跟教育權利裡面那是不是這一筆錢就應該要用來做文化傳播跟教育權利提升的相關業務是是嘛對啊你們有這樣編嗎\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n節目業務的業務費6700變6700沒變製作工程的業務費3300變3300沒變文化行銷的業務4600變4500還變少一點點更可怕的是廣播業務人事費增加2000萬業務費減少1000多萬\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n他如果是人事費他就應該是人事費不是嗎你的原民會的捐助你也有單純捐助的項目嘛或者是你要講說要因應人事調整或保障勞工權益你去這樣寫邊進來然後邊人事費增加當然沒話講嘛可是你為什麼要寫在促進文化傳播跟教育權利的業務項目裡面呢你這樣難道不會給人家感覺是我表面上給你好像我原民會你看我增加了這部分的這個支出結果實際上在貼補人事的缺額你是在粉飾太平嗎\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n感謝委員對我們的人事費的需求的支持那一千多萬的費用大部分都是人事費用來增加廣播的人員的費用那整個過去委員會沒有加薪所以在這一次8%的加薪確實讓員工比較安心我已經說了我不會反對你調整人事費我也不會反對你加薪只要事情可以做好\n但是你這邊講說業務支出要增加的時候相應來講你文化傳播基金會的業務沒有增加這是不對的事情嘛那你要我們怎麼處理這筆預算呢這不是很奇怪嗎我們在做改進在做改進我不知道啦反正我們預算審查的時候還可以在那個但是我不希望這種粉飾太平的事情再次發生該是什麼就是什麼哪一項名目寫哪一項名目把寫清楚把話講清楚就好了好不好這個請人民會要多加油啦謝謝謝謝牛曲廷委員\n我們請張宏祿召委進行宣達謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.198 --> 00:20.972\n委員好主委早安今天我們開始進入預算的審查的階段預算的答詢我們當然就就預算的事情來做一下討論第一個是原住民族委員傳播大樓的進度這個計畫的總經費是多少錢我就聽到下面這塊你打帕死了17億啦17億啊17億對不對對對那目前執行的多少錢救援大隊來了\n\n00:35.387 --> 01:01.568\n沒有關係,把話講清楚,本席非常同意的,沒有關係,不用擔心到今年執行了多少?大概5億5億?不止啦,8億3千萬,答案都在上面了,對不對?可是問題是什麼?一個17億的計畫,然後到現在為止只執行了8億你當然會講說這是一個分年編列的計畫,這本席是了解的但是問題是你的報告裡面也寫,你的預計的完工時間是114年的6月\n\n01:03.830 --> 01:25.848\n換言之你按照現在這樣的一個狀況我們先不去追究為什麼前幾年執行率那麼差的問題我們要問的是114年的6月要完工是不是離現在差不多只剩7個多月你7個多月然後17億的計劃經費現在用了8億你要在接下來的7個月時間花掉8億元到9億元的預算有可能嗎?是不是說明一下?可是委員報告齁\n\n01:27.186 --> 01:48.703\n我們原辦這個以言傳播大樓是不可能在今年就會能夠完工甚至以他的這個進度連明年我們都因為現在切工切料切的工程的施作非常非常的慢所以我們希望就是說我們預期是這樣但是我想應該是達不到\n\n01:49.463 --> 01:54.387\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n02:10.382 --> 02:18.910\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n02:28.652 --> 02:29.893\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n02:45.708 --> 02:54.872\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n03:13.410 --> 03:36.693\n剩下3億多啦3億多?含室內嗎?裝修?沒有含室內裝修所以你現在8億多,主體工人做完11億你要花6億多做室內裝修?沒有沒有,那是設備設備跟攝影棚、燈光我跟你講,既然現在的狀況顯然又跟你給預算中心的報告不一樣那你就重新寫份報告吧到底接下來的那個期程跟相關的開支是什麼?\n\n03:37.193 --> 03:39.176\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n03:54.097 --> 03:58.119\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n04:11.667 --> 04:20.330\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n04:41.363 --> 04:46.624\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n05:11.089 --> 05:29.079\n講一下文化基金會原住民文化基金會這個你們在原民會編列給捐助給原文會的項目因為基金會你當然有預算從公務預算來做提撥那你捐助的項目裡面這個今年明年的預算跟今年比起來\n\n05:30.180 --> 05:54.742\n你的這個促進原住民族文化傳播跟教育權利的經費啊這個明年的預算是3300多萬比起今年是增加了1426萬對不對你既然編在促進原住民文化傳播跟教育權利裡面那是不是這一筆錢就應該要用來做文化傳播跟教育權利提升的相關業務是是嘛對啊你們有這樣編嗎\n\n05:57.662 --> 06:09.604\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n06:25.507 --> 06:27.929\n節目業務的業務費6700變6700沒變製作工程的業務費3300變3300沒變文化行銷的業務4600變4500還變少一點點更可怕的是廣播業務人事費增加2000萬業務費減少1000多萬\n\n06:40.179 --> 06:43.882\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n07:00.222 --> 07:05.846\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n07:30.302 --> 07:58.709\n他如果是人事費他就應該是人事費不是嗎你的原民會的捐助你也有單純捐助的項目嘛或者是你要講說要因應人事調整或保障勞工權益你去這樣寫邊進來然後邊人事費增加當然沒話講嘛可是你為什麼要寫在促進文化傳播跟教育權利的業務項目裡面呢你這樣難道不會給人家感覺是我表面上給你好像我原民會你看我增加了這部分的這個支出結果實際上在貼補人事的缺額你是在粉飾太平嗎\n\n08:00.247 --> 08:02.550\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n08:10.643 --> 08:34.722\n感謝委員對我們的人事費的需求的支持那一千多萬的費用大部分都是人事費用來增加廣播的人員的費用那整個過去委員會沒有加薪所以在這一次8%的加薪確實讓員工比較安心我已經說了我不會反對你調整人事費我也不會反對你加薪只要事情可以做好\n\n08:35.262 --> 09:01.732\n但是你這邊講說業務支出要增加的時候相應來講你文化傳播基金會的業務沒有增加這是不對的事情嘛那你要我們怎麼處理這筆預算呢這不是很奇怪嗎我們在做改進在做改進我不知道啦反正我們預算審查的時候還可以在那個但是我不希望這種粉飾太平的事情再次發生該是什麼就是什麼哪一項名目寫哪一項名目把寫清楚把話講清楚就好了好不好這個請人民會要多加油啦謝謝謝謝牛曲廷委員\n\n09:06.343 --> 09:09.452\n我們請張宏祿召委進行宣達謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.198,"end":20.972,"text":"委員好主委早安今天我們開始進入預算的審查的階段預算的答詢我們當然就就預算的事情來做一下討論第一個是原住民族委員傳播大樓的進度這個計畫的總經費是多少錢我就聽到下面這塊你打帕死了17億啦17億啊17億對不對對對那目前執行的多少錢救援大隊來了"},{"start":35.387,"end":61.568,"text":"沒有關係,把話講清楚,本席非常同意的,沒有關係,不用擔心到今年執行了多少?大概5億5億?不止啦,8億3千萬,答案都在上面了,對不對?可是問題是什麼?一個17億的計畫,然後到現在為止只執行了8億你當然會講說這是一個分年編列的計畫,這本席是了解的但是問題是你的報告裡面也寫,你的預計的完工時間是114年的6月"},{"start":63.83,"end":85.848,"text":"換言之你按照現在這樣的一個狀況我們先不去追究為什麼前幾年執行率那麼差的問題我們要問的是114年的6月要完工是不是離現在差不多只剩7個多月你7個多月然後17億的計劃經費現在用了8億你要在接下來的7個月時間花掉8億元到9億元的預算有可能嗎?是不是說明一下?可是委員報告齁"},{"start":87.186,"end":108.703,"text":"我們原辦這個以言傳播大樓是不可能在今年就會能夠完工甚至以他的這個進度連明年我們都因為現在切工切料切的工程的施作非常非常的慢所以我們希望就是說我們預期是這樣但是我想應該是達不到"},{"start":109.463,"end":114.387,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":130.382,"end":138.91,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":148.652,"end":149.893,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":165.708,"end":174.872,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":193.41,"end":216.693,"text":"剩下3億多啦3億多?含室內嗎?裝修?沒有含室內裝修所以你現在8億多,主體工人做完11億你要花6億多做室內裝修?沒有沒有,那是設備設備跟攝影棚、燈光我跟你講,既然現在的狀況顯然又跟你給預算中心的報告不一樣那你就重新寫份報告吧到底接下來的那個期程跟相關的開支是什麼?"},{"start":217.193,"end":219.176,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":234.097,"end":238.119,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":251.667,"end":260.33,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":281.363,"end":286.624,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":311.089,"end":329.079,"text":"講一下文化基金會原住民文化基金會這個你們在原民會編列給捐助給原文會的項目因為基金會你當然有預算從公務預算來做提撥那你捐助的項目裡面這個今年明年的預算跟今年比起來"},{"start":330.18,"end":354.742,"text":"你的這個促進原住民族文化傳播跟教育權利的經費啊這個明年的預算是3300多萬比起今年是增加了1426萬對不對你既然編在促進原住民文化傳播跟教育權利裡面那是不是這一筆錢就應該要用來做文化傳播跟教育權利提升的相關業務是是嘛對啊你們有這樣編嗎"},{"start":357.662,"end":369.604,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":385.507,"end":387.929,"text":"節目業務的業務費6700變6700沒變製作工程的業務費3300變3300沒變文化行銷的業務4600變4500還變少一點點更可怕的是廣播業務人事費增加2000萬業務費減少1000多萬"},{"start":400.179,"end":403.882,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":420.222,"end":425.846,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":450.302,"end":478.709,"text":"他如果是人事費他就應該是人事費不是嗎你的原民會的捐助你也有單純捐助的項目嘛或者是你要講說要因應人事調整或保障勞工權益你去這樣寫邊進來然後邊人事費增加當然沒話講嘛可是你為什麼要寫在促進文化傳播跟教育權利的業務項目裡面呢你這樣難道不會給人家感覺是我表面上給你好像我原民會你看我增加了這部分的這個支出結果實際上在貼補人事的缺額你是在粉飾太平嗎"},{"start":480.247,"end":482.55,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":490.643,"end":514.722,"text":"感謝委員對我們的人事費的需求的支持那一千多萬的費用大部分都是人事費用來增加廣播的人員的費用那整個過去委員會沒有加薪所以在這一次8%的加薪確實讓員工比較安心我已經說了我不會反對你調整人事費我也不會反對你加薪只要事情可以做好"},{"start":515.262,"end":541.732,"text":"但是你這邊講說業務支出要增加的時候相應來講你文化傳播基金會的業務沒有增加這是不對的事情嘛那你要我們怎麼處理這筆預算呢這不是很奇怪嗎我們在做改進在做改進我不知道啦反正我們預算審查的時候還可以在那個但是我不希望這種粉飾太平的事情再次發生該是什麼就是什麼哪一項名目寫哪一項名目把寫清楚把話講清楚就好了好不好這個請人民會要多加油啦謝謝謝謝牛曲廷委員"},{"start":546.343,"end":549.452,"text":"我們請張宏祿召委進行宣達謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":733,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（9時54分）謝謝主席，原民會主委有請。"],["主席：請曾主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委早安。今天我們開始進入預算審查的階段、預算的答詢，當然我們就預算的事情做一下討論，第一個，原住民族語言傳播大樓的進度，這個計畫的總經費是多少錢？我聽到下面在幫你打pass了，17億啦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：17億。"],["牛委員煦庭：17億，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：目前執行了多少錢？救援大隊來了，沒關係，只要把話講清楚，本席非常同意的，沒有關係，不用擔心。到今年執行了多少？"],["曾主任委員智勇：大概5億。"],["牛委員煦庭：5億？不只啦，8億3,000萬，答案都放在上面了，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：可是問題是什麼？一個17億的計畫，到現在為止只執行了8億，你當然會講這是一個分年編列的計畫，這本席瞭解的。問題是你的報告裡面也寫，預計完工的時間是114年6月，換言之，按照現在這樣的狀況，我們先不去追究為什麼前幾年執行率那麼差的問題，我們要問114年6月要完工，離現在差不多只剩七個多月，7個多月、17億的計畫經費，現在用了8億，你要在接下來7個月時間花掉8億到9億元的預算，有可能嗎？是不是說明一下。"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，我們研判語言傳播大樓不可能在今年就能夠完工，甚至於它的進度，連明年我們都……因為現在缺工缺料，工程的施作非常非常的慢，所以我們希望預期是這樣，但是我想應該是達不到啦！"],["牛委員煦庭：這是我們立法院預算中心的報告，你給預算中心的報告裡面本來說113年，就是今年下半年就要完工，然後因為剛剛你講的，原物料大漲等等沒有辦法完工，說要延到114年6月，這也是你們自己講的，然後你今天又在這邊講沒辦法，可能明年都做不完！你如果說已經知道了這件事情，給預算中心報告的時候就誠實講就好，要不然會很奇怪啊，對不對？到現在為止，工程進度沒有七成，然後你剩下半年的時間，然後還有八億多、九億的預算沒有執行，這樣預算執行出來不是慘不忍睹嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：到底什麼時候可以完工？"],["曾主任委員智勇：為什麼會慢？因為我們還有室內的裝修、室內的設備，也需要一段時間……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以到底什麼時候可以完成？來，後面可以說明一下，相關的……"],["曾主任委員智勇：是不是可以請原文會董事長……"],["牛委員煦庭：可以啊，當然沒有問題，只要可以講清楚就好了。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：報告委員，我們明年3月主體建築就會完工，之後大概8個月的時間會進行室內裝修的進度，再接下來我們就會採購電視廣播的設備……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你的意思是說，明年初的時候主體工程就會完工？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以主體工程還要花多少錢？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：應該剩下三億多。"],["牛委員煦庭：三億多，含室內裝修嗎？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：沒有，沒有。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒有含室內裝修，所以你現在八億多，主體工程做完11億，你要花六億多做室內裝修喔？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：沒有，沒有，那是設備，電視跟攝影棚、燈光……"],["牛委員煦庭：我跟你講，既然現在的狀況顯然又跟你給預算中心的報告不一樣，那你就重新寫份報告吧！到底接下來的期程跟相關的開支是什麼，這一份就坦白從寬啦，誠實的寫，這樣大家……免得每一年你都被抓，你的預算執行數，你看上面第一年12%；然後第二年還比較合理98%；第三年又變10%；今年到現在為止36%，整個下來的執行率未達八成。如果執行有狀況的時候，你該重新編、該重新講清楚就要重新講清楚，這第一個。第二個，你相關的住宅配套，之前講你們董事有一些意見，當然從你們的工作來講，就要去妥善的溝通嘛！溝通完了沒？上次講離職可能會有兩成、三成，現在照這樣子搬到桃園之後，預計要離職人數有沒有降下來？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：據我們瞭解，整個我們在桃園的新會址、員工的福利配套，工會跟我們的討論是非常順暢，在上個月我們又再召開一次，總共召開了12次，員工全部移往桃園的意願是高的，是順利的。"],["牛委員煦庭：高是指多少？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：我們還要再做更細的問卷。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為最早的時候就是有兩成多，對不對？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：對，那個很少。"],["牛委員煦庭：接近三成，現在是多少？未來你的目標是多少？最好是一個都不要走嘛，對不對？難得的人才要留著嘛！"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：對，而且我們現在也正在培訓更多專業人才進來。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，會後一樣給本席一個報告，你的指標就是有沒有辦法達成嘛，方法是可以設計沒有錯，但是指標就是能不能走嘛，好不好？我們會繼續盯著。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：好的。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，再來講一下原住民文化基金會，你們原民會編列捐助給原文會的項目，因為基金會你當然有預算，從公務預算來做提撥嘛，對不對？你捐助的項目裡面，明年的預算跟今年比起來，促進原住民族文化傳播跟教育權利的經費，明年的預算是三千三百多萬，比起今年是增加了一千四百二十六萬，你既然編在促進原住民文化傳播跟教育權利裡面，是不是這筆錢就應該要用來做文化傳播跟教育權利提升的相關業務？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：是嘛！你們有這樣編嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：有啊！"],["牛委員煦庭：有嗎？來，你看一下預算書，你從原民會支出撥給基金會，你的支出增加是不是多了一千多萬？我們現在來看原住民族文化事業基金會的支出項目的總表，你看，業務支出裡面行政管理支出，人事費多了一千多萬；業務費1億2,800變1億2,900；新聞業務的業務費3,600沒變；節目業務的業務費6,700沒變；製作工程業務費3,300沒變；文化行銷的業務費4,600變4,500還變少一點點，更可怕的是廣播業務，人事費增加2,000萬；業務費減少一千多萬快兩千萬。原民會給文化基金會的經費增加了一千四百多萬，講說要做文化傳播跟教育權利，結果看你的原民會文化事業的相關支出，所有的業務只減不增，然後人事費增加，這個名目是不是寫錯了，要不要說明一下？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：報告委員，我們廣播增加16個員額，主要原因是一開始開臺的時候沒有編足，現在原民會這邊要求我們能夠編足這些人事跟員額，所以才會出現這個部分的預算差異。"],["牛委員煦庭：我跟你講，前面你有來說明啦，就是不管是因應物價要加薪，或者是你要編足員額，這本席不是不能理解，但你科目要寫對啊！如果是人事費，它就應該是人事費，不是嗎？原民會的捐助，你也有單純捐助的項目嘛，或者你要講因應人事調整或保障勞工權益，你去這樣寫編進來，然後編人事費增加，大家沒話講嘛！可是你為什麼要寫在促進文化傳播跟教育權益的業務項目裡面呢？你這樣難道不會給人家感覺，表面上好像原民會增加了這部分的支出，結果實際上在貼補人事的缺額，你是在粉飾太平嗎？為什麼不做修正呢，你要不要說明一下？這是怎樣，你們財主單位會盯你們？監察院會看你們？所以你要這樣子乾坤大挪移，這樣好嗎？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：感謝委員對於我們的人事費需求的支持，一千多萬的費用大部分都是人事費用，用來增加廣播人員的費用，因為過去原文會沒有加薪，所以在這一次8%的加薪，確實讓員工比較安心。"],["牛委員煦庭：我已經說了，我不會反對你調整人事費，我也不會反對你加薪，只要事情可以做好，但是你這邊講業務支出要增加的時候，相應來講文化傳播基金會業務沒有增加，這是不對的事情嘛！那你要我們怎麼處理這筆預算呢？這不是很奇怪嗎？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：是，我們再做改進，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：再做改進？我不知道，反正我們預算審查時還可以討論，但是我不希望這種粉飾太平的事情再次發生，該是什麼就是什麼，哪一項名目就寫哪一項名目，把它寫清楚，把話講清楚就好了，好不好？請原民會要多加油，謝謝。"],["主席（李委員柏毅代）：謝謝牛煦庭委員。","我們請張宏陸召委進行詢答，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-8","speakers":["張宏陸","麥玉珍","王美惠","黃建賓","黃捷","牛煦庭","李柏毅","盧縣一","高金素梅","徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","張智倫","林倩綺","吳琪銘","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳瑩","許宇甄","黃仁","丁學忠"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2024-11-11"],"gazette_id":"1139601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會、原住民族文化發展中心部分；三、審查 114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金─原住民族綜合發展基金；\n四、審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會及財團法人原住民族語言研究發\n展基金會114年度預算書案；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於不當黨產處理委員會單位預\n算","agenda_id":"1139601_00003"}}}