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82.335, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 82.335, \"end\": 82.575, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 82.575, \"end\": 83.176, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"籌\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 83.176, \"end\": 83.336, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 83.336, \"end\": 83.556, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 83.556, \"end\": 83.737, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 83.737, \"end\": 83.857, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 83.857, \"end\": 83.957, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 83.957, \"end\": 83.977, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 83.977, \"end\": 83.997, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 89.157, \"end\": 96.162, \"text\": \"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 89.157, \"end\": 89.317, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 89.317, \"end\": 89.378, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 89.378, \"end\": 89.478, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 89.478, \"end\": 89.498, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 89.498, \"end\": 89.558, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 89.558, \"end\": 89.718, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 89.718, \"end\": 89.918, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 89.918, \"end\": 90.078, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 90.078, \"end\": 90.258, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 90.258, \"end\": 90.378, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"附\", \"start\": 90.378, \"end\": 90.458, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 90.458, \"end\": 90.518, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 90.518, \"end\": 90.618, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 90.618, \"end\": 90.638, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 90.638, \"end\": 90.678, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 90.678, \"end\": 90.779, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 90.779, \"end\": 90.819, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 90.819, \"end\": 90.899, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 90.899, \"end\": 90.919, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 90.919, \"end\": 90.979, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 90.979, \"end\": 91.139, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 91.139, \"end\": 91.219, 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93.821, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 93.821, \"end\": 94.001, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 94.001, \"end\": 94.021, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 94.021, \"end\": 94.041, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 94.041, \"end\": 94.101, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 94.101, \"end\": 94.381, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 94.381, \"end\": 94.541, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 94.541, \"end\": 94.641, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 94.641, \"end\": 95.102, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 95.102, \"end\": 95.202, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 95.202, \"end\": 95.342, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 95.342, \"end\": 95.442, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 95.442, \"end\": 95.502, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"附\", \"start\": 95.502, \"end\": 95.642, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 95.642, \"end\": 95.762, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 95.762, \"end\": 96.122, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 96.122, \"end\": 96.142, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 96.142, \"end\": 96.162, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 117.659, \"end\": 133.295, \"text\": \"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 117.659, \"end\": 117.799, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 117.799, \"end\": 117.879, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 117.879, \"end\": 118.36, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 118.36, 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\"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 481.156, \"end\": 481.257, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 481.257, \"end\": 481.377, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 481.377, \"end\": 481.397, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 481.397, \"end\": 481.457, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 481.457, \"end\": 481.857, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 481.857, \"end\": 481.937, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 481.937, \"end\": 481.957, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"附\", \"start\": 481.957, \"end\": 481.977, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 481.977, \"end\": 482.017, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 482.017, \"end\": 482.117, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 482.117, \"end\": 482.197, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 482.197, \"end\": 482.217, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 509.498, \"end\": 509.6, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"盧\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 509.6, \"end\": 509.62, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:27,879\n到內政委員會以前其實你沒有正式的對於原住民進法補償條例正式的在內政委員會來做一個說明我們是在6月5號立法院三讀通過原住民進法補償條例每年進法補償金由每公頃3萬元提高到6萬元主委你什麼時候上任\n\n2\n00:00:28,635 --> 00:00:40,241\n五月二十號16天內立法院通過這個條文也就是說必須要增加現有的補償金25.99億、26億也就是說原本在114年歲初的概算的125億裡面有高達52億\n\n3\n00:00:52,796 --> 00:01:07,464\n必須要來做競發補償如果沒有做這個行政院沒有相關在這最近這一段時間做的預算調整裡面你的原民會的預算會有41.6%來做競發補償的發放是不是對\n\n4\n00:01:13,367 --> 00:01:23,997\n那時候這兩個月我們在擔心什麼這兩個月我們就在擔心設置在高雄的這個原住民博物館明年度業務費編列包含這個籌備中心編列的1億9千萬會不會少\n\n5\n00:01:29,157 --> 00:01:36,162\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n6\n00:01:57,659 --> 00:02:13,295\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n7\n00:02:22,213 --> 00:02:31,216\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n8\n00:02:46,462 --> 00:02:47,883\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n9\n00:03:03,683 --> 00:03:10,865\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n10\n00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:56,297\n管園區的這些相關的預算包含現在原委會還在推動的很多包含保留原住民語言包含這個地方創生包含我很重視一個東西我覺得這個我們也會繼續追蹤就是強化偏鄉寬頻環境數位轉型3600多萬可以做到什麼程度這個我們也很關心讓偏鄉原民的小朋友跟都會一樣有網路可以使用\n\n11\n00:03:57,312 --> 00:04:12,144\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n12\n00:04:29,541 --> 00:04:40,911\n主委最近官司好像不太順利有幾件官司原因是什麼但是我們都上訴了原因是這樣子我們是不讓檔案處理條例我講一個案子好不好我們講這個\n\n13\n00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:52,853\n大廈大樓我大概看了一下我們這個黨參委員會不當黨參委員會這邊齁這個是在民國72年的時候中國國民黨主席蔣經國主席去函給臺北市國宅處說你這個賣給我本來要買兩層那後來全部買那經過當時官派的臺北市長同意是不是\n\n14\n00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:35,516\n對,它原來是一個國宅的用地,本來是要蓋國宅,其中...所以應該是國宅?是,原來是國宅的計畫。後來被國民黨買走了?國民黨要買。它要買。它怎麼買?它後來用一個標案的方式,是用讓售,是用標售。那定價怎麼定?它綁成要全國性的社團,那全國性社團他們當初是用了民眾服務社。\n\n15\n00:05:36,317 --> 00:05:38,358\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n16\n00:05:54,869 --> 00:06:20,164\n輸的問題現在這樣子我剛說我們是作為黨產條例的主管機關我們對於黨產追徵的範圍收的範圍我們有我們的解讀可是現在法院現在他卻表示出一個見解當然也有其他法官不同意見其中有一派的法官說一定要是當初買的時候買便宜的或者沒有買是用送的這種黨產才可以出現在就是要講給你聽\n\n17\n00:06:21,965 --> 00:06:50,311\n做國國人黨主席來跟官派的臺北市長、臺北市的國債處來說要買喔!這個價錢怎麼會合理?他當時要有計算的基礎因為那是40年前的事情我們現在要如何去還原到40年前說我說你這個要買便宜這個我們是不好說的因為我們沒有很明確的證據很難這樣子去說但是他現在法院卻保持這樣的見解他說你要去證明說他買便宜了\n\n18\n00:06:50,811 --> 00:06:55,854\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n19\n00:07:15,146 --> 00:07:35,893\n其實我曾經跟高雄市政府那個時候應該是跟高雄市政府去過這個西班牙那西班牙也有一個轉型正義的一個遺址那其實我對於黨場不當黨場委員會出國考察的事情我是必須要在這裡表達支持\n\n20\n00:07:36,613 --> 00:07:39,336\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n21\n00:07:56,315 --> 00:08:02,217\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n22\n00:08:29,498 --> 00:08:29,620\n我們請盧縣議委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t27879\t到內政委員會以前其實你沒有正式的對於原住民進法補償條例正式的在內政委員會來做一個說明我們是在6月5號立法院三讀通過原住民進法補償條例每年進法補償金由每公頃3萬元提高到6萬元主委你什麼時候上任\n28635\t40241\t五月二十號16天內立法院通過這個條文也就是說必須要增加現有的補償金25.99億、26億也就是說原本在114年歲初的概算的125億裡面有高達52億\n52796\t67464\t必須要來做競發補償如果沒有做這個行政院沒有相關在這最近這一段時間做的預算調整裡面你的原民會的預算會有41.6%來做競發補償的發放是不是對\n73367\t83997\t那時候這兩個月我們在擔心什麼這兩個月我們就在擔心設置在高雄的這個原住民博物館明年度業務費編列包含這個籌備中心編列的1億9千萬會不會少\n89157\t96162\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n117659\t133295\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n142213\t151216\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n166462\t167883\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n183683\t190865\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n207190\t236297\t管園區的這些相關的預算包含現在原委會還在推動的很多包含保留原住民語言包含這個地方創生包含我很重視一個東西我覺得這個我們也會繼續追蹤就是強化偏鄉寬頻環境數位轉型3600多萬可以做到什麼程度這個我們也很關心讓偏鄉原民的小朋友跟都會一樣有網路可以使用\n237312\t252144\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n269541\t280911\t主委最近官司好像不太順利有幾件官司原因是什麼但是我們都上訴了原因是這樣子我們是不讓檔案處理條例我講一個案子好不好我們講這個\n284790\t292853\t大廈大樓我大概看了一下我們這個黨參委員會不當黨參委員會這邊齁這個是在民國72年的時候中國國民黨主席蔣經國主席去函給臺北市國宅處說你這個賣給我本來要買兩層那後來全部買那經過當時官派的臺北市長同意是不是\n313420\t335516\t對,它原來是一個國宅的用地,本來是要蓋國宅,其中...所以應該是國宅?是,原來是國宅的計畫。後來被國民黨買走了?國民黨要買。它要買。它怎麼買?它後來用一個標案的方式,是用讓售,是用標售。那定價怎麼定?它綁成要全國性的社團,那全國性社團他們當初是用了民眾服務社。\n336317\t338358\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n354869\t380164\t輸的問題現在這樣子我剛說我們是作為黨產條例的主管機關我們對於黨產追徵的範圍收的範圍我們有我們的解讀可是現在法院現在他卻表示出一個見解當然也有其他法官不同意見其中有一派的法官說一定要是當初買的時候買便宜的或者沒有買是用送的這種黨產才可以出現在就是要講給你聽\n381965\t410311\t做國國人黨主席來跟官派的臺北市長、臺北市的國債處來說要買喔!這個價錢怎麼會合理?他當時要有計算的基礎因為那是40年前的事情我們現在要如何去還原到40年前說我說你這個要買便宜這個我們是不好說的因為我們沒有很明確的證據很難這樣子去說但是他現在法院卻保持這樣的見解他說你要去證明說他買便宜了\n410811\t415854\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n435146\t455893\t其實我曾經跟高雄市政府那個時候應該是跟高雄市政府去過這個西班牙那西班牙也有一個轉型正義的一個遺址那其實我對於黨場不當黨場委員會出國考察的事情我是必須要在這裡表達支持\n456613\t459336\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n476315\t482217\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n509498\t509620\t我們請盧縣議委員\n","txt":"到內政委員會以前其實你沒有正式的對於原住民進法補償條例正式的在內政委員會來做一個說明我們是在6月5號立法院三讀通過原住民進法補償條例每年進法補償金由每公頃3萬元提高到6萬元主委你什麼時候上任\n五月二十號16天內立法院通過這個條文也就是說必須要增加現有的補償金25.99億、26億也就是說原本在114年歲初的概算的125億裡面有高達52億\n必須要來做競發補償如果沒有做這個行政院沒有相關在這最近這一段時間做的預算調整裡面你的原民會的預算會有41.6%來做競發補償的發放是不是對\n那時候這兩個月我們在擔心什麼這兩個月我們就在擔心設置在高雄的這個原住民博物館明年度業務費編列包含這個籌備中心編列的1億9千萬會不會少\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n管園區的這些相關的預算包含現在原委會還在推動的很多包含保留原住民語言包含這個地方創生包含我很重視一個東西我覺得這個我們也會繼續追蹤就是強化偏鄉寬頻環境數位轉型3600多萬可以做到什麼程度這個我們也很關心讓偏鄉原民的小朋友跟都會一樣有網路可以使用\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n主委最近官司好像不太順利有幾件官司原因是什麼但是我們都上訴了原因是這樣子我們是不讓檔案處理條例我講一個案子好不好我們講這個\n大廈大樓我大概看了一下我們這個黨參委員會不當黨參委員會這邊齁這個是在民國72年的時候中國國民黨主席蔣經國主席去函給臺北市國宅處說你這個賣給我本來要買兩層那後來全部買那經過當時官派的臺北市長同意是不是\n對,它原來是一個國宅的用地,本來是要蓋國宅,其中...所以應該是國宅?是,原來是國宅的計畫。後來被國民黨買走了?國民黨要買。它要買。它怎麼買?它後來用一個標案的方式,是用讓售,是用標售。那定價怎麼定?它綁成要全國性的社團,那全國性社團他們當初是用了民眾服務社。\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n輸的問題現在這樣子我剛說我們是作為黨產條例的主管機關我們對於黨產追徵的範圍收的範圍我們有我們的解讀可是現在法院現在他卻表示出一個見解當然也有其他法官不同意見其中有一派的法官說一定要是當初買的時候買便宜的或者沒有買是用送的這種黨產才可以出現在就是要講給你聽\n做國國人黨主席來跟官派的臺北市長、臺北市的國債處來說要買喔!這個價錢怎麼會合理?他當時要有計算的基礎因為那是40年前的事情我們現在要如何去還原到40年前說我說你這個要買便宜這個我們是不好說的因為我們沒有很明確的證據很難這樣子去說但是他現在法院卻保持這樣的見解他說你要去證明說他買便宜了\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n其實我曾經跟高雄市政府那個時候應該是跟高雄市政府去過這個西班牙那西班牙也有一個轉型正義的一個遺址那其實我對於黨場不當黨場委員會出國考察的事情我是必須要在這裡表達支持\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n我們請盧縣議委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:27.879\n到內政委員會以前其實你沒有正式的對於原住民進法補償條例正式的在內政委員會來做一個說明我們是在6月5號立法院三讀通過原住民進法補償條例每年進法補償金由每公頃3萬元提高到6萬元主委你什麼時候上任\n\n00:28.635 --> 00:40.241\n五月二十號16天內立法院通過這個條文也就是說必須要增加現有的補償金25.99億、26億也就是說原本在114年歲初的概算的125億裡面有高達52億\n\n00:52.796 --> 01:07.464\n必須要來做競發補償如果沒有做這個行政院沒有相關在這最近這一段時間做的預算調整裡面你的原民會的預算會有41.6%來做競發補償的發放是不是對\n\n01:13.367 --> 01:23.997\n那時候這兩個月我們在擔心什麼這兩個月我們就在擔心設置在高雄的這個原住民博物館明年度業務費編列包含這個籌備中心編列的1億9千萬會不會少\n\n01:29.157 --> 01:36.162\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n01:57.659 --> 02:13.295\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n02:22.213 --> 02:31.216\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n02:46.462 --> 02:47.883\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n03:03.683 --> 03:10.865\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n03:27.190 --> 03:56.297\n管園區的這些相關的預算包含現在原委會還在推動的很多包含保留原住民語言包含這個地方創生包含我很重視一個東西我覺得這個我們也會繼續追蹤就是強化偏鄉寬頻環境數位轉型3600多萬可以做到什麼程度這個我們也很關心讓偏鄉原民的小朋友跟都會一樣有網路可以使用\n\n03:57.312 --> 04:12.144\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n04:29.541 --> 04:40.911\n主委最近官司好像不太順利有幾件官司原因是什麼但是我們都上訴了原因是這樣子我們是不讓檔案處理條例我講一個案子好不好我們講這個\n\n04:44.790 --> 04:52.853\n大廈大樓我大概看了一下我們這個黨參委員會不當黨參委員會這邊齁這個是在民國72年的時候中國國民黨主席蔣經國主席去函給臺北市國宅處說你這個賣給我本來要買兩層那後來全部買那經過當時官派的臺北市長同意是不是\n\n05:13.420 --> 05:35.516\n對,它原來是一個國宅的用地,本來是要蓋國宅,其中...所以應該是國宅?是,原來是國宅的計畫。後來被國民黨買走了?國民黨要買。它要買。它怎麼買?它後來用一個標案的方式,是用讓售,是用標售。那定價怎麼定?它綁成要全國性的社團,那全國性社團他們當初是用了民眾服務社。\n\n05:36.317 --> 05:38.358\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n05:54.869 --> 06:20.164\n輸的問題現在這樣子我剛說我們是作為黨產條例的主管機關我們對於黨產追徵的範圍收的範圍我們有我們的解讀可是現在法院現在他卻表示出一個見解當然也有其他法官不同意見其中有一派的法官說一定要是當初買的時候買便宜的或者沒有買是用送的這種黨產才可以出現在就是要講給你聽\n\n06:21.965 --> 06:50.311\n做國國人黨主席來跟官派的臺北市長、臺北市的國債處來說要買喔!這個價錢怎麼會合理?他當時要有計算的基礎因為那是40年前的事情我們現在要如何去還原到40年前說我說你這個要買便宜這個我們是不好說的因為我們沒有很明確的證據很難這樣子去說但是他現在法院卻保持這樣的見解他說你要去證明說他買便宜了\n\n06:50.811 --> 06:55.854\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n07:15.146 --> 07:35.893\n其實我曾經跟高雄市政府那個時候應該是跟高雄市政府去過這個西班牙那西班牙也有一個轉型正義的一個遺址那其實我對於黨場不當黨場委員會出國考察的事情我是必須要在這裡表達支持\n\n07:36.613 --> 07:39.336\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n07:56.315 --> 08:02.217\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n08:29.498 --> 08:29.620\n我們請盧縣議委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":27.879,"text":"到內政委員會以前其實你沒有正式的對於原住民進法補償條例正式的在內政委員會來做一個說明我們是在6月5號立法院三讀通過原住民進法補償條例每年進法補償金由每公頃3萬元提高到6萬元主委你什麼時候上任"},{"start":28.635,"end":40.241,"text":"五月二十號16天內立法院通過這個條文也就是說必須要增加現有的補償金25.99億、26億也就是說原本在114年歲初的概算的125億裡面有高達52億"},{"start":52.796,"end":67.464,"text":"必須要來做競發補償如果沒有做這個行政院沒有相關在這最近這一段時間做的預算調整裡面你的原民會的預算會有41.6%來做競發補償的發放是不是對"},{"start":73.367,"end":83.997,"text":"那時候這兩個月我們在擔心什麼這兩個月我們就在擔心設置在高雄的這個原住民博物館明年度業務費編列包含這個籌備中心編列的1億9千萬會不會少"},{"start":89.157,"end":96.162,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":117.659,"end":133.295,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":142.213,"end":151.216,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":166.462,"end":167.883,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":183.683,"end":190.865,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":207.19,"end":236.297,"text":"管園區的這些相關的預算包含現在原委會還在推動的很多包含保留原住民語言包含這個地方創生包含我很重視一個東西我覺得這個我們也會繼續追蹤就是強化偏鄉寬頻環境數位轉型3600多萬可以做到什麼程度這個我們也很關心讓偏鄉原民的小朋友跟都會一樣有網路可以使用"},{"start":237.312,"end":252.144,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":269.541,"end":280.911,"text":"主委最近官司好像不太順利有幾件官司原因是什麼但是我們都上訴了原因是這樣子我們是不讓檔案處理條例我講一個案子好不好我們講這個"},{"start":284.79,"end":292.853,"text":"大廈大樓我大概看了一下我們這個黨參委員會不當黨參委員會這邊齁這個是在民國72年的時候中國國民黨主席蔣經國主席去函給臺北市國宅處說你這個賣給我本來要買兩層那後來全部買那經過當時官派的臺北市長同意是不是"},{"start":313.42,"end":335.516,"text":"對,它原來是一個國宅的用地,本來是要蓋國宅,其中...所以應該是國宅?是,原來是國宅的計畫。後來被國民黨買走了?國民黨要買。它要買。它怎麼買?它後來用一個標案的方式,是用讓售,是用標售。那定價怎麼定?它綁成要全國性的社團,那全國性社團他們當初是用了民眾服務社。"},{"start":336.317,"end":338.358,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":354.869,"end":380.164,"text":"輸的問題現在這樣子我剛說我們是作為黨產條例的主管機關我們對於黨產追徵的範圍收的範圍我們有我們的解讀可是現在法院現在他卻表示出一個見解當然也有其他法官不同意見其中有一派的法官說一定要是當初買的時候買便宜的或者沒有買是用送的這種黨產才可以出現在就是要講給你聽"},{"start":381.965,"end":410.311,"text":"做國國人黨主席來跟官派的臺北市長、臺北市的國債處來說要買喔!這個價錢怎麼會合理?他當時要有計算的基礎因為那是40年前的事情我們現在要如何去還原到40年前說我說你這個要買便宜這個我們是不好說的因為我們沒有很明確的證據很難這樣子去說但是他現在法院卻保持這樣的見解他說你要去證明說他買便宜了"},{"start":410.811,"end":415.854,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":435.146,"end":455.893,"text":"其實我曾經跟高雄市政府那個時候應該是跟高雄市政府去過這個西班牙那西班牙也有一個轉型正義的一個遺址那其實我對於黨場不當黨場委員會出國考察的事情我是必須要在這裡表達支持"},{"start":456.613,"end":459.336,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":476.315,"end":482.217,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":509.498,"end":509.62,"text":"我們請盧縣議委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":869,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時13分）謝謝，請曾主委。"],["主席：請曾主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：主委在今天來到內政委員會以前，其實你沒有對於原住民禁伐補償條例正式的在內政委員會做一個說明。6月5號立法院三讀通過原住民禁伐補償條例，每年禁伐補償金由每公頃3萬元提高到6萬元。主委，你什麼時候上任？"],["曾主任委員智勇：5月20號。"],["李委員柏毅：你上任後16天內，立法院通過這個條文，也就是說必須要增加現有的補償金25.99億，將近26億，也就是說，原本在114年歲出概算的125億裡面有高達52億必須要來做禁伐補償，如果行政院沒有在最近這一段時間做預算的調整，你們原民會的預算會有41.6%要來做禁伐補償的發放，是不是？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["李委員柏毅：好，在這兩個月我們在擔心什麼？在這兩個月我們就在擔心設址在高雄的原住民博物館明年度業務費的編列，包含這個籌備中心編列的1億9,000萬會不會少？"],["曾主任委員智勇：會被排擠到。"],["李委員柏毅：一定會被排擠。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["李委員柏毅：在2032年要開園的原民會博物館有可能被排擠，每年被排擠，原本要蓋8年，可能變成要蓋16年，有沒有這個可能？"],["曾主任委員智勇：有可能。"],["李委員柏毅：包含原文會、原語會，你說的原本今年度要好，但是室內裝修還沒有好，有沒有可能被排擠，連明年都不會好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：也有可能。"],["李委員柏毅：也有可能，因為預算的排擠嘛！"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["李委員柏毅：那造成預算的排擠，把錢拿來做禁伐補償，民進黨政府跟原民會後來所做溝通的內容到底是怎麼樣？主委，你有沒有跟院長爭取這6萬元一定要如期發放，院長的態度是怎麼樣？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我有跟院長爭取，希望能夠發放給原住民，當然我有跟他講，但是因為後來卓院長跟韓院長他們黨團協商時說就是用很多方式，可以用追加減的方式，也可以用二備金的方式，也可以按照以前原民會以預算跟基金對等的方式來發放，那麼最後院長很有誠意，跟韓院長還有黨團協調後是用追加減預算的方式來辦理。"],["李委員柏毅：也就是說，民進黨政府、卓榮泰院長跟原民會這邊討論完，我們要來支持禁伐補償的預算，但是我們必須要用其他方式來編列，才不會去排擠到其他部分，現在原委會其實還有在做很多其他的業務，包含我們很重視、我們一直在追的高雄這個原民會的原民博物館園區，需要這些相關的預算。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["李委員柏毅：現在原委會還有推動很多業務，包含保留原住民語言，包含地方創生，包含我很重視的一個部分，我對這個也會繼續追蹤，就是強化偏鄉寬頻環境數位轉型，用三千六百多萬可以做到什麼程度，對這個我們也很關心，要讓偏鄉原民的小朋友跟都會地區一樣有網路可以使用，這可以做到多少普及的程度，在所有原民聚會所的普及率可以達到什麼程度，我想這個我們後續都會持續來追蹤，今天聽到曾主委很清楚地表達，我也表示肯定。"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝。"],["李委員柏毅：來，我請不當黨產處理委員會的林主委。"],["主席：好，請林主委。"],["林主任委員峯正：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，最近官司好像不太順利。"],["林主任委員峯正：有幾件官司，但是我們都上訴了。"],["李委員柏毅：原因是什麼？"],["林主任委員峯正：原因是這樣子，我們是不當黨產處理條例……"],["李委員柏毅：我講一個案子好不好？"],["林主任委員峯正：好。"],["李委員柏毅：我們講這個大孝大樓。"],["林主任委員峯正：是。"],["李委員柏毅：關於大孝大樓，我大概看了一下不當黨產委員會這邊的資料，這是在民國72年的時候中國國民黨主席蔣經國主席去函臺北市國宅處說：你這個賣給我，本來是要買兩層，後來全部買了，經過當時官派的臺北市長同意，是不是？"],["林主任委員峯正：對，它原來是一個國宅的用地，本來是要蓋國宅……"],["李委員柏毅：所以應該是要蓋國宅？"],["林主任委員峯正：是，原來是國宅計畫。"],["李委員柏毅：但是後來被國民黨買走了。"],["林主任委員峯正：國民黨要買。"],["李委員柏毅：國民黨是怎麼買？"],["林主任委員峯正：後來是用一個標案的方式，就是用標售……"],["李委員柏毅：那定價怎麼定？"],["林主任委員峯正：就是綁成要全國性的社團，他們當初是用民眾服務社當……"],["李委員柏毅：全國性社團？民眾服務社就是中國國民黨的民眾服務社？"],["林主任委員峯正：對，是用民眾服務社的名字去標，那就標到了，後來他們就把這個房地過給國民黨。"],["李委員柏毅：那很清楚啊！就是臺北市的國宅變成中國國民黨的嘛！"],["林主任委員峯正：是，變成黨產。"],["李委員柏毅：那到底輸在哪裡？到底他們上訴之後輸在哪裡？"],["林主任委員峯正：關於輸的問題，現在是這樣子，我剛剛說我們是作為黨產條例的主管機關，我們對於黨產追徵的範圍、收的範圍，我們有我們的解讀，可是現在法院卻表示出一個見解，當然也有其他法官持不同意見，其中有一派的法官說，一定要是當初買的時候買便宜了，或者沒有買、是用送的，像這種黨產才可以處理。"],["李委員柏毅：我現在就是要講給你聽哪！"],["林主任委員峯正：那現在這種用人頭的不行……"],["李委員柏毅：中國國民黨主席來跟官派的臺北市長、臺北市的國宅處說要買，那這個價錢怎麼會合理？"],["林主任委員峯正：在當時當然有計算的基礎，因為那是在40年前的事情，我們現在要如何去還原到40年前說這個地方是買便宜了，這個我們是不好說，如果沒有很明確的證據，很難這樣子去說，但是現在法院卻跑出這樣的見解，說你要去證明他買便宜了，如果你沒有辦法證明他買便宜了，這種就不算。"],["李委員柏毅：所以在這邊要建議不當黨產委員會對相關的這些土地估價、歷史等等的，還是要趕快積極地去找出這一些可以支持你的理由，在未來上訴的過程裡面可以為所有臺灣人民的財產做一些正當的防衛。"],["林主任委員峯正：謝謝。"],["李委員柏毅：接下來其實有一個很重要的部分，就是我曾經跟高雄市政府去過西班牙，那西班牙也有一個轉型正義的遺址，那我對於不當黨產委員會出國考察的事情必須要在這裡表達支持，因為你沒有去到這些國家，你沒有辦法想像這些國家歷經過去這些威權的時代所面對的所有問題，現在搞不好臺灣還是非常落後，如果沒有讓我們的基層文官或者是不當黨產委員會負責處理的這些同仁們實際看到國外的這些狀況，他們也很難放手去做，所以除了在這邊表達支持以外，也希望不管是各委員會，包含不當黨產等等，包含我剛剛講的原民會，在做這些國外考察交流的時候，其實也都是在讓國際看到臺灣，希望黨產會要持續的去做這些相關的取經。"],["林主任委員峯正：好，謝謝。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝。"],["主席：我們請盧縣一委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-8","speakers":["張宏陸","麥玉珍","王美惠","黃建賓","黃捷","牛煦庭","李柏毅","盧縣一","高金素梅","徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","張智倫","林倩綺","吳琪銘","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳瑩","許宇甄","黃仁","丁學忠"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2024-11-11"],"gazette_id":"1139601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會、原住民族文化發展中心部分；三、審查 114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金─原住民族綜合發展基金；\n四、審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會及財團法人原住民族語言研究發\n展基金會114年度預算書案；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於不當黨產處理委員會單位預\n算","agenda_id":"1139601_00003"}}}