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\"start\": 554.754, \"end\": 555.174, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 555.174, \"end\": 555.395, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 555.395, \"end\": 555.415, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"關\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,601 --> 00:00:08,041\n有請廖院長\n\n2\n00:00:14,755 --> 00:00:41,108\n院長早好,院長早好,院長我想您是身兼我們總統府國家氣候變遷對策委員會的副召集人那這個是關乎這個我們國家能源二次轉型跟達成2050淨零碳排目標非常的重要那所以呢我想站在中研院的立場我們這除了在研究上面我們要不斷的精進之外我們是不是也會提供一些正確的建議給各部會是的\n\n3\n00:00:41,488 --> 00:00:43,449\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案\n\n4\n00:00:59,473 --> 00:01:16,512\n根據會議的資料您當時有說要利用新科技提升核能安全性或補強位於地震帶的核電廠我想這一些言論是否代表您對於國家能源的發展是不排除核電的從技術上來講這些是可行的\n\n5\n00:01:17,332 --> 00:01:43,610\n所以您不排除?是的所以我想我們再換一個問法就是說這個核電其實未來我們不管用或不用未來的狀況是怎麼樣但是我想我們都必須要投入相關的研究那這些研究也要來跟國際做一個接軌所以不管是提升這個核能安全性研議或者是這個核融合SM等等這些都是我們必須要去投入人力資源預算來去做研究這個您同意嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:45,032 --> 00:02:06,134\n合電的研究分很多層面。從基礎研究的角度,它需要投入非常大的資源,幾乎全世界只有少數的國家可以獨立投入,比如說美國,比如說中國,其他都是跨國合作。合電的研究大部分都是在商業化,\n\n7\n00:02:06,795 --> 00:02:09,357\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n\n8\n00:02:24,770 --> 00:02:26,170\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n\n9\n00:02:47,677 --> 00:02:49,678\n事項中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n\n10\n00:03:03,468 --> 00:03:21,024\n所以院長對不起我能不能這樣解讀就剛才說到兩個第一個就是說要用新科技來提升核能安全性第二個要補強這個位於地震帶的核電廠所以現在有做的是第二部分第一部分我們還沒有開始進行做對第一部分主要是這個在這個實際建設的階段那每一個核電廠每一個SMR都有它設計的方式那這個別人這個無從置喙\n\n11\n00:03:29,792 --> 00:03:55,712\n需要設計工程公司自己去做那學研單位最多只能從比較廣泛的一個角度提供一些這個比較general的一些問題那這個在國際上也有一些研究但是由於過去幾年全世界核能的研究這前景不明所以這方面前景不明\n\n12\n00:03:56,733 --> 00:04:19,168\n院長我想目前就我們自己的狀況來看我們知道核三廠二號機組在明年的五月就要除役了那我們現在看到再生能源的這個發電進展其實是遲緩的那麼我們不管是提高燃氣燃煤發電的比例都其實都會增加碳排所以現在我們看到中火這個二期增加的這個燃氣機組的爭議等等如果\n\n13\n00:04:21,630 --> 00:04:27,694\n我們政府堅持要排除掉零碳排的核電您個人認為在2050近零碳排的目標會不會達成?\n\n14\n00:04:29,932 --> 00:04:50,799\n禁令我們沒有放棄任何乾淨能源的本錢所以我們要達成禁令一定要想盡辦法用所有可以用的技術那剛才委員提到說我們這個天然氣廠雖然排炭但是他所這個替代的燃煤電廠他\n\n15\n00:04:52,580 --> 00:04:55,062\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n16\n00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:24,761\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n\n17\n00:05:38,769 --> 00:05:43,753\n不是不能這樣講是說我們這個研究繼續進行但這個計劃是在這個14年的預算裡面是明年1月才會開始我想院長其實您真的是很實事求是啦那其實我們有看到其實在112年在就是65千瓦等級的小型商用發電機組那我們以混淨10%的濃度有發電成功那我本身有看到這個部分不過呢\n\n18\n00:06:05,089 --> 00:06:06,350\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。��\n\n19\n00:06:25,981 --> 00:06:27,983\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案有關中央研究院函．為11\n\n20\n00:06:47,520 --> 00:07:15,780\n那剛才您有提到就是說這個預算嘛那我看到中研院在明年的這個預算當中我們也編列了4年10億的這個相關的這個這個經費明年先編了2億那這個中研院預計在什麼時候我們會開始進行百萬瓦級的相關的混清測試有沒有信心可以做這是我們的規劃是兩年後就在台電由台電購置5M的機組那我們的聚氮燃氣的反應器跟台電機組做串聯\n\n21\n00:07:17,341 --> 00:07:18,381\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案\n\n22\n00:07:41,028 --> 00:07:48,055\n我們會跟他平攤費用嗎?不一定是平攤,但是會有一個制裁的一個...所以這個還沒有談出來?這個現在還為時尚早,因為將來還要技術發展的狀況還不確定。\n\n23\n00:08:26,582 --> 00:08:28,384\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n24\n00:08:43,760 --> 00:09:10,189\n可以,我們這個制裁計轉有非常完善的制度不管是公營事業或是民營事業我們都有一套這個制裁計轉的規定好,最後院長我想這個去碳燃氣技術如果能夠成功當然是可以這個有效的去降低這個燃氣機組的碳排放所以現在看起來我們有一些在測試當中有一些可能還沒有很積極的這個進展那我覺得我對中研院非常有信心要請同仁大家\n\n25\n00:09:10,769 --> 00:09:15,415\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7601\t8041\t有請廖院長\n14755\t41108\t院長早好,院長早好,院長我想您是身兼我們總統府國家氣候變遷對策委員會的副召集人那這個是關乎這個我們國家能源二次轉型跟達成2050淨零碳排目標非常的重要那所以呢我想站在中研院的立場我們這除了在研究上面我們要不斷的精進之外我們是不是也會提供一些正確的建議給各部會是的\n41488\t43449\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案\n59473\t76512\t根據會議的資料您當時有說要利用新科技提升核能安全性或補強位於地震帶的核電廠我想這一些言論是否代表您對於國家能源的發展是不排除核電的從技術上來講這些是可行的\n77332\t103610\t所以您不排除?是的所以我想我們再換一個問法就是說這個核電其實未來我們不管用或不用未來的狀況是怎麼樣但是我想我們都必須要投入相關的研究那這些研究也要來跟國際做一個接軌所以不管是提升這個核能安全性研議或者是這個核融合SM等等這些都是我們必須要去投入人力資源預算來去做研究這個您同意嗎?\n105032\t126134\t合電的研究分很多層面。從基礎研究的角度,它需要投入非常大的資源,幾乎全世界只有少數的國家可以獨立投入,比如說美國,比如說中國,其他都是跨國合作。合電的研究大部分都是在商業化,\n126795\t129357\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n144770\t146170\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n167677\t169678\t事項中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n183468\t201024\t所以院長對不起我能不能這樣解讀就剛才說到兩個第一個就是說要用新科技來提升核能安全性第二個要補強這個位於地震帶的核電廠所以現在有做的是第二部分第一部分我們還沒有開始進行做對第一部分主要是這個在這個實際建設的階段那每一個核電廠每一個SMR都有它設計的方式那這個別人這個無從置喙\n209792\t235712\t需要設計工程公司自己去做那學研單位最多只能從比較廣泛的一個角度提供一些這個比較general的一些問題那這個在國際上也有一些研究但是由於過去幾年全世界核能的研究這前景不明所以這方面前景不明\n236733\t259168\t院長我想目前就我們自己的狀況來看我們知道核三廠二號機組在明年的五月就要除役了那我們現在看到再生能源的這個發電進展其實是遲緩的那麼我們不管是提高燃氣燃煤發電的比例都其實都會增加碳排所以現在我們看到中火這個二期增加的這個燃氣機組的爭議等等如果\n261630\t267694\t我們政府堅持要排除掉零碳排的核電您個人認為在2050近零碳排的目標會不會達成?\n269932\t290799\t禁令我們沒有放棄任何乾淨能源的本錢所以我們要達成禁令一定要想盡辦法用所有可以用的技術那剛才委員提到說我們這個天然氣廠雖然排炭但是他所這個替代的燃煤電廠他\n292580\t295062\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n322500\t324761\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n338769\t343753\t不是不能這樣講是說我們這個研究繼續進行但這個計劃是在這個14年的預算裡面是明年1月才會開始我想院長其實您真的是很實事求是啦那其實我們有看到其實在112年在就是65千瓦等級的小型商用發電機組那我們以混淨10%的濃度有發電成功那我本身有看到這個部分不過呢\n365089\t366350\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。��\n385981\t387983\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案有關中央研究院函．為11\n407520\t435780\t那剛才您有提到就是說這個預算嘛那我看到中研院在明年的這個預算當中我們也編列了4年10億的這個相關的這個這個經費明年先編了2億那這個中研院預計在什麼時候我們會開始進行百萬瓦級的相關的混清測試有沒有信心可以做這是我們的規劃是兩年後就在台電由台電購置5M的機組那我們的聚氮燃氣的反應器跟台電機組做串聯\n437341\t438381\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案\n461028\t468055\t我們會跟他平攤費用嗎?不一定是平攤,但是會有一個制裁的一個...所以這個還沒有談出來?這個現在還為時尚早,因為將來還要技術發展的狀況還不確定。\n476442\t506442\t議員議員\n506582\t508384\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n523760\t550189\t可以,我們這個制裁計轉有非常完善的制度不管是公營事業或是民營事業我們都有一套這個制裁計轉的規定好,最後院長我想這個去碳燃氣技術如果能夠成功當然是可以這個有效的去降低這個燃氣機組的碳排放所以現在看起來我們有一些在測試當中有一些可能還沒有很積極的這個進展那我覺得我對中研院非常有信心要請同仁大家\n550769\t555415\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n","txt":"有請廖院長\n院長早好,院長早好,院長我想您是身兼我們總統府國家氣候變遷對策委員會的副召集人那這個是關乎這個我們國家能源二次轉型跟達成2050淨零碳排目標非常的重要那所以呢我想站在中研院的立場我們這除了在研究上面我們要不斷的精進之外我們是不是也會提供一些正確的建議給各部會是的\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案\n根據會議的資料您當時有說要利用新科技提升核能安全性或補強位於地震帶的核電廠我想這一些言論是否代表您對於國家能源的發展是不排除核電的從技術上來講這些是可行的\n所以您不排除?是的所以我想我們再換一個問法就是說這個核電其實未來我們不管用或不用未來的狀況是怎麼樣但是我想我們都必須要投入相關的研究那這些研究也要來跟國際做一個接軌所以不管是提升這個核能安全性研議或者是這個核融合SM等等這些都是我們必須要去投入人力資源預算來去做研究這個您同意嗎?\n合電的研究分很多層面。從基礎研究的角度,它需要投入非常大的資源,幾乎全世界只有少數的國家可以獨立投入,比如說美國,比如說中國,其他都是跨國合作。合電的研究大部分都是在商業化,\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n事項中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n所以院長對不起我能不能這樣解讀就剛才說到兩個第一個就是說要用新科技來提升核能安全性第二個要補強這個位於地震帶的核電廠所以現在有做的是第二部分第一部分我們還沒有開始進行做對第一部分主要是這個在這個實際建設的階段那每一個核電廠每一個SMR都有它設計的方式那這個別人這個無從置喙\n需要設計工程公司自己去做那學研單位最多只能從比較廣泛的一個角度提供一些這個比較general的一些問題那這個在國際上也有一些研究但是由於過去幾年全世界核能的研究這前景不明所以這方面前景不明\n院長我想目前就我們自己的狀況來看我們知道核三廠二號機組在明年的五月就要除役了那我們現在看到再生能源的這個發電進展其實是遲緩的那麼我們不管是提高燃氣燃煤發電的比例都其實都會增加碳排所以現在我們看到中火這個二期增加的這個燃氣機組的爭議等等如果\n我們政府堅持要排除掉零碳排的核電您個人認為在2050近零碳排的目標會不會達成?\n禁令我們沒有放棄任何乾淨能源的本錢所以我們要達成禁令一定要想盡辦法用所有可以用的技術那剛才委員提到說我們這個天然氣廠雖然排炭但是他所這個替代的燃煤電廠他\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n不是不能這樣講是說我們這個研究繼續進行但這個計劃是在這個14年的預算裡面是明年1月才會開始我想院長其實您真的是很實事求是啦那其實我們有看到其實在112年在就是65千瓦等級的小型商用發電機組那我們以混淨10%的濃度有發電成功那我本身有看到這個部分不過呢\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。��\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案有關中央研究院函．為11\n那剛才您有提到就是說這個預算嘛那我看到中研院在明年的這個預算當中我們也編列了4年10億的這個相關的這個這個經費明年先編了2億那這個中研院預計在什麼時候我們會開始進行百萬瓦級的相關的混清測試有沒有信心可以做這是我們的規劃是兩年後就在台電由台電購置5M的機組那我們的聚氮燃氣的反應器跟台電機組做串聯\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案\n我們會跟他平攤費用嗎?不一定是平攤,但是會有一個制裁的一個...所以這個還沒有談出來?這個現在還為時尚早,因為將來還要技術發展的狀況還不確定。\n議員議員\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n可以,我們這個制裁計轉有非常完善的制度不管是公營事業或是民營事業我們都有一套這個制裁計轉的規定好,最後院長我想這個去碳燃氣技術如果能夠成功當然是可以這個有效的去降低這個燃氣機組的碳排放所以現在看起來我們有一些在測試當中有一些可能還沒有很積極的這個進展那我覺得我對中研院非常有信心要請同仁大家\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.601 --> 00:08.041\n有請廖院長\n\n00:14.755 --> 00:41.108\n院長早好,院長早好,院長我想您是身兼我們總統府國家氣候變遷對策委員會的副召集人那這個是關乎這個我們國家能源二次轉型跟達成2050淨零碳排目標非常的重要那所以呢我想站在中研院的立場我們這除了在研究上面我們要不斷的精進之外我們是不是也會提供一些正確的建議給各部會是的\n\n00:41.488 --> 00:43.449\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案\n\n00:59.473 --> 01:16.512\n根據會議的資料您當時有說要利用新科技提升核能安全性或補強位於地震帶的核電廠我想這一些言論是否代表您對於國家能源的發展是不排除核電的從技術上來講這些是可行的\n\n01:17.332 --> 01:43.610\n所以您不排除?是的所以我想我們再換一個問法就是說這個核電其實未來我們不管用或不用未來的狀況是怎麼樣但是我想我們都必須要投入相關的研究那這些研究也要來跟國際做一個接軌所以不管是提升這個核能安全性研議或者是這個核融合SM等等這些都是我們必須要去投入人力資源預算來去做研究這個您同意嗎?\n\n01:45.032 --> 02:06.134\n合電的研究分很多層面。從基礎研究的角度,它需要投入非常大的資源,幾乎全世界只有少數的國家可以獨立投入,比如說美國,比如說中國,其他都是跨國合作。合電的研究大部分都是在商業化,\n\n02:06.795 --> 02:09.357\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n\n02:24.770 --> 02:26.170\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n\n02:47.677 --> 02:49.678\n事項中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n\n03:03.468 --> 03:21.024\n所以院長對不起我能不能這樣解讀就剛才說到兩個第一個就是說要用新科技來提升核能安全性第二個要補強這個位於地震帶的核電廠所以現在有做的是第二部分第一部分我們還沒有開始進行做對第一部分主要是這個在這個實際建設的階段那每一個核電廠每一個SMR都有它設計的方式那這個別人這個無從置喙\n\n03:29.792 --> 03:55.712\n需要設計工程公司自己去做那學研單位最多只能從比較廣泛的一個角度提供一些這個比較general的一些問題那這個在國際上也有一些研究但是由於過去幾年全世界核能的研究這前景不明所以這方面前景不明\n\n03:56.733 --> 04:19.168\n院長我想目前就我們自己的狀況來看我們知道核三廠二號機組在明年的五月就要除役了那我們現在看到再生能源的這個發電進展其實是遲緩的那麼我們不管是提高燃氣燃煤發電的比例都其實都會增加碳排所以現在我們看到中火這個二期增加的這個燃氣機組的爭議等等如果\n\n04:21.630 --> 04:27.694\n我們政府堅持要排除掉零碳排的核電您個人認為在2050近零碳排的目標會不會達成?\n\n04:29.932 --> 04:50.799\n禁令我們沒有放棄任何乾淨能源的本錢所以我們要達成禁令一定要想盡辦法用所有可以用的技術那剛才委員提到說我們這個天然氣廠雖然排炭但是他所這個替代的燃煤電廠他\n\n04:52.580 --> 04:55.062\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n05:22.500 --> 05:24.761\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n\n05:38.769 --> 05:43.753\n不是不能這樣講是說我們這個研究繼續進行但這個計劃是在這個14年的預算裡面是明年1月才會開始我想院長其實您真的是很實事求是啦那其實我們有看到其實在112年在就是65千瓦等級的小型商用發電機組那我們以混淨10%的濃度有發電成功那我本身有看到這個部分不過呢\n\n06:05.089 --> 06:06.350\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。��\n\n06:25.981 --> 06:27.983\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案有關中央研究院函．為11\n\n06:47.520 --> 07:15.780\n那剛才您有提到就是說這個預算嘛那我看到中研院在明年的這個預算當中我們也編列了4年10億的這個相關的這個這個經費明年先編了2億那這個中研院預計在什麼時候我們會開始進行百萬瓦級的相關的混清測試有沒有信心可以做這是我們的規劃是兩年後就在台電由台電購置5M的機組那我們的聚氮燃氣的反應器跟台電機組做串聯\n\n07:17.341 --> 07:18.381\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案\n\n07:41.028 --> 07:48.055\n我們會跟他平攤費用嗎?不一定是平攤,但是會有一個制裁的一個...所以這個還沒有談出來?這個現在還為時尚早,因為將來還要技術發展的狀況還不確定。\n\n08:26.582 --> 08:28.384\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n08:43.760 --> 09:10.189\n可以,我們這個制裁計轉有非常完善的制度不管是公營事業或是民營事業我們都有一套這個制裁計轉的規定好,最後院長我想這個去碳燃氣技術如果能夠成功當然是可以這個有效的去降低這個燃氣機組的碳排放所以現在看起來我們有一些在測試當中有一些可能還沒有很積極的這個進展那我覺得我對中研院非常有信心要請同仁大家\n\n09:10.769 --> 09:15.415\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.601,"end":8.041,"text":"有請廖院長"},{"start":14.755,"end":41.108,"text":"院長早好,院長早好,院長我想您是身兼我們總統府國家氣候變遷對策委員會的副召集人那這個是關乎這個我們國家能源二次轉型跟達成2050淨零碳排目標非常的重要那所以呢我想站在中研院的立場我們這除了在研究上面我們要不斷的精進之外我們是不是也會提供一些正確的建議給各部會是的"},{"start":41.488,"end":43.449,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案"},{"start":59.473,"end":76.512,"text":"根據會議的資料您當時有說要利用新科技提升核能安全性或補強位於地震帶的核電廠我想這一些言論是否代表您對於國家能源的發展是不排除核電的從技術上來講這些是可行的"},{"start":77.332,"end":103.61,"text":"所以您不排除?是的所以我想我們再換一個問法就是說這個核電其實未來我們不管用或不用未來的狀況是怎麼樣但是我想我們都必須要投入相關的研究那這些研究也要來跟國際做一個接軌所以不管是提升這個核能安全性研議或者是這個核融合SM等等這些都是我們必須要去投入人力資源預算來去做研究這個您同意嗎?"},{"start":105.032,"end":126.134,"text":"合電的研究分很多層面。從基礎研究的角度,它需要投入非常大的資源,幾乎全世界只有少數的國家可以獨立投入,比如說美國,比如說中國,其他都是跨國合作。合電的研究大部分都是在商業化,"},{"start":126.795,"end":129.357,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":144.77,"end":146.17,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":167.677,"end":169.678,"text":"事項中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。"},{"start":183.468,"end":201.024,"text":"所以院長對不起我能不能這樣解讀就剛才說到兩個第一個就是說要用新科技來提升核能安全性第二個要補強這個位於地震帶的核電廠所以現在有做的是第二部分第一部分我們還沒有開始進行做對第一部分主要是這個在這個實際建設的階段那每一個核電廠每一個SMR都有它設計的方式那這個別人這個無從置喙"},{"start":209.792,"end":235.712,"text":"需要設計工程公司自己去做那學研單位最多只能從比較廣泛的一個角度提供一些這個比較general的一些問題那這個在國際上也有一些研究但是由於過去幾年全世界核能的研究這前景不明所以這方面前景不明"},{"start":236.733,"end":259.168,"text":"院長我想目前就我們自己的狀況來看我們知道核三廠二號機組在明年的五月就要除役了那我們現在看到再生能源的這個發電進展其實是遲緩的那麼我們不管是提高燃氣燃煤發電的比例都其實都會增加碳排所以現在我們看到中火這個二期增加的這個燃氣機組的爭議等等如果"},{"start":261.63,"end":267.694,"text":"我們政府堅持要排除掉零碳排的核電您個人認為在2050近零碳排的目標會不會達成?"},{"start":269.932,"end":290.799,"text":"禁令我們沒有放棄任何乾淨能源的本錢所以我們要達成禁令一定要想盡辦法用所有可以用的技術那剛才委員提到說我們這個天然氣廠雖然排炭但是他所這個替代的燃煤電廠他"},{"start":292.58,"end":295.062,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":322.5,"end":324.761,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。"},{"start":338.769,"end":343.753,"text":"不是不能這樣講是說我們這個研究繼續進行但這個計劃是在這個14年的預算裡面是明年1月才會開始我想院長其實您真的是很實事求是啦那其實我們有看到其實在112年在就是65千瓦等級的小型商用發電機組那我們以混淨10%的濃度有發電成功那我本身有看到這個部分不過呢"},{"start":365.089,"end":366.35,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。��"},{"start":385.981,"end":387.983,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案有關中央研究院函．為11"},{"start":407.52,"end":435.78,"text":"那剛才您有提到就是說這個預算嘛那我看到中研院在明年的這個預算當中我們也編列了4年10億的這個相關的這個這個經費明年先編了2億那這個中研院預計在什麼時候我們會開始進行百萬瓦級的相關的混清測試有沒有信心可以做這是我們的規劃是兩年後就在台電由台電購置5M的機組那我們的聚氮燃氣的反應器跟台電機組做串聯"},{"start":437.341,"end":438.381,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案"},{"start":461.028,"end":468.055,"text":"我們會跟他平攤費用嗎?不一定是平攤,但是會有一個制裁的一個...所以這個還沒有談出來?這個現在還為時尚早,因為將來還要技術發展的狀況還不確定。"},{"start":476.442,"end":506.442,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":506.582,"end":508.384,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":523.76,"end":550.189,"text":"可以,我們這個制裁計轉有非常完善的制度不管是公營事業或是民營事業我們都有一套這個制裁計轉的規定好,最後院長我想這個去碳燃氣技術如果能夠成功當然是可以這個有效的去降低這個燃氣機組的碳排放所以現在看起來我們有一些在測試當中有一些可能還沒有很積極的這個進展那我覺得我對中研院非常有信心要請同仁大家"},{"start":550.769,"end":555.415,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":485,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（10時42分）謝謝主席，有請廖院長。"],["主席：有請廖院長。"],["廖院長俊智：萬委員早。"],["萬委員美玲：院長早。您身兼總統府國家氣候變遷對策委員會副召集人，這個是關乎國家能源二次轉型跟達成2050淨零碳排目標，非常重要！站在中研院的立場，除了在研究上要不斷的精進之外，你們是不是也會提供一些正確的建議給各部會？"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["萬委員美玲：沒有錯嘛？"],["廖院長俊智：我們是從科技的角度提出。"],["萬委員美玲：很好！今年8月跟10月，兩次國家氣候變遷對策會議都有提到，明年1月要提出臺灣2032年的減碳新目標，院長都有出席，對嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["萬委員美玲：根據會議資料，您當時有說要利用新科技提升核能安全性或補強位於地震帶的核電廠，這一些言論是否代表您對於國家能源的發展是不排除核電的？"],["廖院長俊智：從技術上來講，這些是可行的。"],["萬委員美玲：是可行的，所以您不排除？"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["萬委員美玲：我再換一個問法，未來不管我們用或不用核電的狀況是怎麼樣，我們都必須要投入相關的研究，這些研究也要跟國際接軌，所以不管是提升核能安全性、延役或者是核融合、SMR等等，這些都是我們必須投入人力資源預算來研究的，您同意嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：核電的研究分很多層面，從基礎研究的角度，它需要投入非常大的資源，全世界只有少數的國家可以獨立投入，譬如美國、中國，其他都是跨國合作。核電的研究大部分都是在商業化及安全性方面的研究比較多，這方面……"],["萬委員美玲：我請教院長，現在中研院有在進行新核能技術的研發嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：沒有。"],["萬委員美玲：比如我們剛剛提到的，其中像SMR或核融合這些技術研究，有嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：沒有，因為這方面有幾個原因，第一個、最主要就是這裡面的基礎研究……"],["萬委員美玲：沒關係，我們找個時間，您再跟我說原因。"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["萬委員美玲：如果沒有的話，因為您有出席剛才我說的會議，您有說到要利用新科技來提升核能的安全性。如果現在相關的研究都沒有在進行，您認為只要未來核電安全，你還是會繼續支持嗎？為什麼研究沒有做？"],["廖院長俊智：我們可以做的研究，不是直接SMR或直接核電，譬如地震的研究，我們做很多，我們可以很清楚地了解，臺灣在哪一個地方地震的風險性有多高，怎麼樣加強它的……"],["萬委員美玲：對不起！我能不能這樣解讀？剛才說到兩個，第一個就是要用新科技來提升核能安全性，第二個要補強位於地震帶的核電廠，所以現在有做的是第二部分，第一部分還沒有開始進行，是這樣嘛？"],["廖院長俊智：對，第一部分主要是在實際建設的階段，每一個核電廠、每一個SMR都有它設計的方式，別人無從置喙，必須要設計工程公司自己去做，學研單位最多只能從比較廣泛的角度提供一些比較general的問題。這個在國際上也有一些研究，但是由於過去幾年全世界核能研究前景不明，所以這方面……"],["萬委員美玲：目前就我們自己的狀況來看，我們知道核三廠2號機組在明年5月就要除役了，我們現在看到再生能源的發電進展其實是遲緩的，不管是提高燃氣、燃煤發電的比例都會增加碳排。現在我們看到中火二期增加燃氣機組的爭議等等，如果政府堅持要排除掉零碳排的核電，您個人認為2050淨零碳排的目標會不會達成？"],["廖院長俊智：我們沒有放棄任何乾淨能源的本錢，所以我們要達成淨零，一定要想盡辦法用所有可以用的技術。剛才委員提到，天然氣廠雖然排碳，但是它替代燃煤電廠所排的碳確實減少很多。"],["萬委員美玲：沒關係！我就請教您，以目前來看，您覺得2050淨零碳排的目標會達成嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：這確實是很困難，全世界都一樣。"],["萬委員美玲：接下來，我想請教一下，除了核電之外，在該會當中，你們也有盤點到各部會的減碳旗艦計畫。其中，中研院跟經濟部有合作，也正在研究測試天然氣去碳燃氫的技術。本席看到目標是希望117年能夠達到混氫20%的濃度，這對嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：是的，但那是在那幾個機組，並不是全部的機組，只有一個試驗的5MW機組而已。"],["萬委員美玲：現在有什麼成果？"],["廖院長俊智：現在錢好像還沒下來，1月才開始。"],["萬委員美玲：沒有錢，所以毫無成果？"],["廖院長俊智：不是！不能這樣講，而是研究繼續進行，但這個計畫是在114年的預算裡面，是明年1月才會開始。"],["萬委員美玲：院長，您真的是很實事求是。其實我們有看到，112年65千瓦等級的小型商用發電機組以混氫10%的濃度有發電成功，本席有看到這個部分，不過我也看到台電的發電機組都是用百萬瓦級的大型發電機組，所以65千瓦的小型發電機組看起來好像是一個測試，也沒有進入發電。"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["萬委員美玲：如果去碳燃氫技術沒有辦法用在這麼大型的百萬瓦的發電機組上面，對於減碳有幫助嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：假如沒辦法用上，當然沒有幫助，所以我們現在才要開始跟台電合作，5MW就是第一步。對比台電的機組，5MW的機組仍然是非常小，仍然是測試階段，所以我一再強調，這是一個很長的進程，國際上還沒有人成功這樣做，我們希望能夠至少先國際……"],["萬委員美玲：剛才您有提到預算，我看到中研院在明年的預算當中也編列了4年10億的相關經費，明年先編了2億。中研院預計在什麼時候會開始進行百萬瓦級相關的混氫測試？有沒有信心可以做？"],["廖院長俊智：我們的規劃是2年後由台電購置5MW的機組，我們的去碳燃氫反應器跟台電機組做串聯，在那個時候接上去。"],["萬委員美玲：院長，我想這個計畫是中研院跟台電合作，經費是雙方來平攤嗎？將來這個技術研發成功之後，你們是無償提供給台電，還是會向台電收取部分技轉的費用？"],["廖院長俊智：技轉我們將來還要另外再談，現在是共同開發的階段。"],["萬委員美玲：你們會跟它平攤費用嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：不一定是平攤，但是會有一個智財的做法。"],["萬委員美玲：所以這個還沒有談出來？"],["廖院長俊智：現在還為時尚早，因為將來技術發展的狀況還不確定。"],["萬委員美玲：院長，即使為時尚早，我們也要預作準備。"],["廖院長俊智：是。"],["萬委員美玲：而且台電連續調漲電價，經濟部明年還編了2,000億要撥補台電的虧損，明年開始起，不管是優惠電價或電價凍漲的金額，看起來台電都已經把它回歸到各目的事業主管機關自行辦理或自行編列預算去支應，換句話說，看起來台電跟各部會就是親兄弟明算帳。所以在此本席提醒中研院，真的不要客氣，將來該平攤的費用要平攤……"],["廖院長俊智：那當然。"],["萬委員美玲：中研院預算也沒有很多，但我們一天到晚都在撥補台電，它要跟各部會親兄弟明算帳，我真的建議，院長，你們要提早做準備，將來不管是技轉、費用的平攤，都要事先跟台電講好，該台電付的，你們就不要客氣，可以嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：可以。我們的智財技轉有非常完善的制度，不管是公營事業或民營事業，我們都有一套智財技轉的規定，我們照那個規定來執行。"],["萬委員美玲：最後，去碳燃氫技術如果能夠成功，當然可以有效地降低燃氣機組的碳排放，所以現在看起來我們有一些在測試當中，有一些可能還沒有很積極的進展，我對中研院非常有信心，請同仁大家辛苦，趕緊地把該做的工作補上，如果在人力上面、預算上面有需要，我們都會予以支持，中研院現在所有承擔的工作對於臺灣的未來都非常重要，希望院長跟所有同仁要繼續加油！"],["廖院長俊智：好，謝謝。"],["萬委員美玲：謝謝。"],["主席：院長請回。謝謝萬美玲委員的質詢。","再來請吳沛憶委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-8","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","萬美玲","吳沛憶","林倩綺","張雅琳","陳培瑜","吳春城","羅智強","翁曉玲","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2024-11-11"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 114年度中央政府總預\n算案有關中央研究院單位預算案；三、審查 114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院科學研究\n基金附屬單位預算案；四、處理中央研究院函，為112年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送第2目「一\n般學術研究及評議」預算繼續凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案；五、審查中央研究院函，為113\n年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議(一)「自然及人文社會科學研究」預算凍結100萬元書面報\n告，請查照案（第二案及第三案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00005"}}}