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00:01:14,765\n大自然文化對原住民來講應該是非常非常重要的狀況嘛非常重要的一個資產你是排灣族山對你很重要我是阿美族媳婦海對我們很重要主委我想跟你請教您在今天這一次的業務報告當中也就是您這個明年度的原民會的計劃當中跟海有相關的計劃有哪一些\n\n4\n00:01:19,875 --> 00:01:35,445\n我們很多的產業我也認為應該要很多才對啊產業都在我們這個花蓮台東的這個理論上要有嘛有還有原住民的這個機會所我們也蓋了很多會有特色在海岸海岸這個部分\n\n5\n00:01:37,006 --> 00:01:45,734\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n6\n00:02:01,627 --> 00:02:03,908\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n7\n00:02:17,486 --> 00:02:18,306\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n8\n00:02:39,372 --> 00:02:45,879\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分\n\n9\n00:02:59,997 --> 00:03:02,178\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n10\n00:03:20,768 --> 00:03:48,245\n你這個主委你都知道嗎知道你都知道那我相信今天在場的我相信有一半以上是不知道的狀況啊我跟我小孩講的時候他還以為這個凱達格蘭豬這不是那個迪士尼卡通裡面那個海洋奇緣他以為是別人的了根本就不是台灣的啊不是我們的啦所以你要讓原住民的文化能夠普及到社會大家能夠認同其實可以做的事情是非常非常多的\n\n11\n00:03:48,985 --> 00:03:50,646\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n12\n00:04:14,082 --> 00:04:16,603\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n13\n00:04:39,451 --> 00:04:42,974\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n14\n00:04:58,846 --> 00:05:04,089\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n15\n00:05:27,543 --> 00:05:31,159\n有喔?可是這裡面跟原民會完全沒有關聯性啊?\n\n16\n00:05:32,757 --> 00:05:37,940\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n17\n00:06:01,531 --> 00:06:13,876\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n18\n00:06:27,935 --> 00:06:46,534\n其實是在你們原文會下面有一個很大的計畫啦你們在原文會下面有一個很大的計畫而且他要跨部會去爭取因為造州計畫其實很清楚啊造州涵蓋了記憶、性別、生態知識、經濟、記憶、族群認同、航海的路線要怎麼規劃\n\n19\n00:06:47,495 --> 00:06:51,718\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n20\n00:07:02,705 --> 00:07:04,607\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n21\n00:07:21,805 --> 00:07:44,308\n應該是要讓更多的人可以知道大家都來參與你的好計畫他們參與了你他們可以得分我覺得這樣大家才會看重原民會這是我們對原民會的態度那另外這個實驗小學的部分其實也是同樣的狀況因為我最近去烏來的德拉南小學主委你是從屏東來的嘛屏東有最多的原住民的實驗小學對不對對\n\n22\n00:07:45,969 --> 00:07:48,750\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n23\n00:08:00,103 --> 00:08:02,005\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n24\n00:08:23,985 --> 00:08:45,726\n我們現在確實是看到了我們的實驗教育裡面它其實有很多的困境包括了預算的部分那尤其最難的是在課程製作的部分課程製作才是整個民族實驗學校最難的部分所以一樣回到剛剛的那個部分就是你跟教育部的連結有多少\n\n25\n00:08:46,266 --> 00:08:48,187\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n26\n00:09:12,535 --> 00:09:15,916\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n449\t26341\t主委好主委我們今天要做的是原民會的業務報告那也是對您的預算做一點討論那我要再次說啦其實每次在看原民會真的很辛苦因為他等於是把所有原住民的事務都放在原民會裡面要能夠來處理所以包山包海就像一個小的行政院一樣我這樣講你同意啦同意啦真的大家都辛苦了好可是\n26761\t29922\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n53667\t74765\t大自然文化對原住民來講應該是非常非常重要的狀況嘛非常重要的一個資產你是排灣族山對你很重要我是阿美族媳婦海對我們很重要主委我想跟你請教您在今天這一次的業務報告當中也就是您這個明年度的原民會的計劃當中跟海有相關的計劃有哪一些\n79875\t95445\t我們很多的產業 我也認為應該要很多才對啊產業都在我們這個花蓮台東的這個理論上要有嘛有還有原住民的這個機會所我們也蓋了很多會有特色在海岸海岸這個部分\n97006\t105734\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n121627\t123908\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n137486\t138306\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n159372\t165879\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分\n179997\t182178\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n200768\t228245\t你這個主委你都知道嗎知道你都知道那我相信今天在場的我相信有一半以上是不知道的狀況啊我跟我小孩講的時候他還以為這個凱達格蘭豬這不是那個迪士尼卡通裡面那個海洋奇緣他以為是別人的了根本就不是台灣的啊不是我們的啦所以你要讓原住民的文化能夠普及到社會大家能夠認同其實可以做的事情是非常非常多的\n228985\t230646\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n254082\t256603\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n279451\t282974\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n298846\t304089\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n327543\t331159\t有喔?可是這裡面跟原民會完全沒有關聯性啊?\n332757\t337940\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n361531\t373876\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n387935\t406534\t其實是在你們原文會下面有一個很大的計畫啦你們在原文會下面有一個很大的計畫而且他要跨部會去爭取因為造州計畫其實很清楚啊造州涵蓋了記憶、性別、生態知識、經濟、記憶、族群認同、航海的路線要怎麼規劃\n407495\t411718\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n422705\t424607\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n441805\t464308\t應該是要讓更多的人可以知道大家都來參與你的好計畫他們參與了你他們可以得分我覺得這樣大家才會看重原民會這是我們對原民會的態度那另外這個實驗小學的部分其實也是同樣的狀況因為我最近去烏來的德拉南小學主委你是從屏東來的嘛屏東有最多的原住民的實驗小學對不對對\n465969\t468750\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n480103\t482005\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n503985\t525726\t我們現在確實是看到了我們的實驗教育裡面它其實有很多的困境包括了預算的部分那尤其最難的是在課程製作的部分課程製作才是整個民族實驗學校最難的部分所以一樣回到剛剛的那個部分就是你跟教育部的連結有多少\n526266\t528187\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n552535\t555916\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n","txt":"主委好主委我們今天要做的是原民會的業務報告那也是對您的預算做一點討論那我要再次說啦其實每次在看原民會真的很辛苦因為他等於是把所有原住民的事務都放在原民會裡面要能夠來處理所以包山包海就像一個小的行政院一樣我這樣講你同意啦同意啦真的大家都辛苦了好可是\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n大自然文化對原住民來講應該是非常非常重要的狀況嘛非常重要的一個資產你是排灣族山對你很重要我是阿美族媳婦海對我們很重要主委我想跟你請教您在今天這一次的業務報告當中也就是您這個明年度的原民會的計劃當中跟海有相關的計劃有哪一些\n我們很多的產業 我也認為應該要很多才對啊產業都在我們這個花蓮台東的這個理論上要有嘛有還有原住民的這個機會所我們也蓋了很多會有特色在海岸海岸這個部分\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n你這個主委你都知道嗎知道你都知道那我相信今天在場的我相信有一半以上是不知道的狀況啊我跟我小孩講的時候他還以為這個凱達格蘭豬這不是那個迪士尼卡通裡面那個海洋奇緣他以為是別人的了根本就不是台灣的啊不是我們的啦所以你要讓原住民的文化能夠普及到社會大家能夠認同其實可以做的事情是非常非常多的\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n有喔?可是這裡面跟原民會完全沒有關聯性啊?\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n其實是在你們原文會下面有一個很大的計畫啦你們在原文會下面有一個很大的計畫而且他要跨部會去爭取因為造州計畫其實很清楚啊造州涵蓋了記憶、性別、生態知識、經濟、記憶、族群認同、航海的路線要怎麼規劃\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n應該是要讓更多的人可以知道大家都來參與你的好計畫他們參與了你他們可以得分我覺得這樣大家才會看重原民會這是我們對原民會的態度那另外這個實驗小學的部分其實也是同樣的狀況因為我最近去烏來的德拉南小學主委你是從屏東來的嘛屏東有最多的原住民的實驗小學對不對對\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n我們現在確實是看到了我們的實驗教育裡面它其實有很多的困境包括了預算的部分那尤其最難的是在課程製作的部分課程製作才是整個民族實驗學校最難的部分所以一樣回到剛剛的那個部分就是你跟教育部的連結有多少\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.449 --> 00:26.341\n主委好主委我們今天要做的是原民會的業務報告那也是對您的預算做一點討論那我要再次說啦其實每次在看原民會真的很辛苦因為他等於是把所有原住民的事務都放在原民會裡面要能夠來處理所以包山包海就像一個小的行政院一樣我這樣講你同意啦同意啦真的大家都辛苦了好可是\n\n00:26.761 --> 00:29.922\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n00:53.667 --> 01:14.765\n大自然文化對原住民來講應該是非常非常重要的狀況嘛非常重要的一個資產你是排灣族山對你很重要我是阿美族媳婦海對我們很重要主委我想跟你請教您在今天這一次的業務報告當中也就是您這個明年度的原民會的計劃當中跟海有相關的計劃有哪一些\n\n01:19.875 --> 01:35.445\n我們很多的產業我也認為應該要很多才對啊產業都在我們這個花蓮台東的這個理論上要有嘛有還有原住民的這個機會所我們也蓋了很多會有特色在海岸海岸這個部分\n\n01:37.006 --> 01:45.734\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n02:01.627 --> 02:03.908\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n02:17.486 --> 02:18.306\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n02:39.372 --> 02:45.879\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分\n\n02:59.997 --> 03:02.178\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n03:20.768 --> 03:48.245\n你這個主委你都知道嗎知道你都知道那我相信今天在場的我相信有一半以上是不知道的狀況啊我跟我小孩講的時候他還以為這個凱達格蘭豬這不是那個迪士尼卡通裡面那個海洋奇緣他以為是別人的了根本就不是台灣的啊不是我們的啦所以你要讓原住民的文化能夠普及到社會大家能夠認同其實可以做的事情是非常非常多的\n\n03:48.985 --> 03:50.646\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n04:14.082 --> 04:16.603\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n04:39.451 --> 04:42.974\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n04:58.846 --> 05:04.089\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n05:27.543 --> 05:31.159\n有喔?可是這裡面跟原民會完全沒有關聯性啊?\n\n05:32.757 --> 05:37.940\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n06:01.531 --> 06:13.876\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n06:27.935 --> 06:46.534\n其實是在你們原文會下面有一個很大的計畫啦你們在原文會下面有一個很大的計畫而且他要跨部會去爭取因為造州計畫其實很清楚啊造州涵蓋了記憶、性別、生態知識、經濟、記憶、族群認同、航海的路線要怎麼規劃\n\n06:47.495 --> 06:51.718\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金\n\n07:02.705 --> 07:04.607\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n07:21.805 --> 07:44.308\n應該是要讓更多的人可以知道大家都來參與你的好計畫他們參與了你他們可以得分我覺得這樣大家才會看重原民會這是我們對原民會的態度那另外這個實驗小學的部分其實也是同樣的狀況因為我最近去烏來的德拉南小學主委你是從屏東來的嘛屏東有最多的原住民的實驗小學對不對對\n\n07:45.969 --> 07:48.750\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n08:00.103 --> 08:02.005\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n08:23.985 --> 08:45.726\n我們現在確實是看到了我們的實驗教育裡面它其實有很多的困境包括了預算的部分那尤其最難的是在課程製作的部分課程製作才是整個民族實驗學校最難的部分所以一樣回到剛剛的那個部分就是你跟教育部的連結有多少\n\n08:46.266 --> 08:48.187\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n09:12.535 --> 09:15.916\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.449,"end":26.341,"text":"主委好主委我們今天要做的是原民會的業務報告那也是對您的預算做一點討論那我要再次說啦其實每次在看原民會真的很辛苦因為他等於是把所有原住民的事務都放在原民會裡面要能夠來處理所以包山包海就像一個小的行政院一樣我這樣講你同意啦同意啦真的大家都辛苦了好可是"},{"start":26.761,"end":29.922,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":53.667,"end":74.765,"text":"大自然文化對原住民來講應該是非常非常重要的狀況嘛非常重要的一個資產你是排灣族山對你很重要我是阿美族媳婦海對我們很重要主委我想跟你請教您在今天這一次的業務報告當中也就是您這個明年度的原民會的計劃當中跟海有相關的計劃有哪一些"},{"start":79.875,"end":95.445,"text":"我們很多的產業 我也認為應該要很多才對啊產業都在我們這個花蓮台東的這個理論上要有嘛有還有原住民的這個機會所我們也蓋了很多會有特色在海岸海岸這個部分"},{"start":97.006,"end":105.734,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":121.627,"end":123.908,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":137.486,"end":138.306,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":159.372,"end":165.879,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分關於原住民族文化發展中心部分"},{"start":179.997,"end":182.178,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":200.768,"end":228.245,"text":"你這個主委你都知道嗎知道你都知道那我相信今天在場的我相信有一半以上是不知道的狀況啊我跟我小孩講的時候他還以為這個凱達格蘭豬這不是那個迪士尼卡通裡面那個海洋奇緣他以為是別人的了根本就不是台灣的啊不是我們的啦所以你要讓原住民的文化能夠普及到社會大家能夠認同其實可以做的事情是非常非常多的"},{"start":228.985,"end":230.646,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":254.082,"end":256.603,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":279.451,"end":282.974,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":298.846,"end":304.089,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":327.543,"end":331.159,"text":"有喔?可是這裡面跟原民會完全沒有關聯性啊?"},{"start":332.757,"end":337.94,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":361.531,"end":373.876,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":387.935,"end":406.534,"text":"其實是在你們原文會下面有一個很大的計畫啦你們在原文會下面有一個很大的計畫而且他要跨部會去爭取因為造州計畫其實很清楚啊造州涵蓋了記憶、性別、生態知識、經濟、記憶、族群認同、航海的路線要怎麼規劃"},{"start":407.495,"end":411.718,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金"},{"start":422.705,"end":424.607,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":441.805,"end":464.308,"text":"應該是要讓更多的人可以知道大家都來參與你的好計畫他們參與了你他們可以得分我覺得這樣大家才會看重原民會這是我們對原民會的態度那另外這個實驗小學的部分其實也是同樣的狀況因為我最近去烏來的德拉南小學主委你是從屏東來的嘛屏東有最多的原住民的實驗小學對不對對"},{"start":465.969,"end":468.75,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":480.103,"end":482.005,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":503.985,"end":525.726,"text":"我們現在確實是看到了我們的實驗教育裡面它其實有很多的困境包括了預算的部分那尤其最難的是在課程製作的部分課程製作才是整個民族實驗學校最難的部分所以一樣回到剛剛的那個部分就是你跟教育部的連結有多少"},{"start":526.266,"end":528.187,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"},{"start":552.535,"end":555.916,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1123,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（10時52分）謝謝主席，請曾主委。"],["主席：請曾主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委好。我們今天要進行的是原民會的業務報告，同時也要針對您的預算做一點討論。我要再次說，每次看原民會真的很辛苦，因為它等於是把所有原住民的事務都放在原民會裡面來處理，所以包山包海，就像一個小的行政院一樣，我這樣講你應該同意啦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：同意。"],["蘇委員巧慧：真的大家都辛苦了！但正因為是包山包海，所以我認為原民會跟其他中央各部會應該要有很強力的連結，才能夠把這麼多的事情做好，主委，我這個觀點你同不同意？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是，同意。"],["蘇委員巧慧：應該要跟各部會做一個更好的連結嘛！這樣子的話，我今天就從這個方向來跟你就教。主委，大自然文化對原住民來講應該是非常非常重要的資產，你是排灣族，山對你很重要；我是阿美族媳婦，海對我們很重要。主委，我想跟你請教，你在今天這一次的業務報告當中，也就是在明年度原民會的計畫當中，跟海相關的計畫有哪一些？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們很多的產業……"],["蘇委員巧慧：很多？我也認為應該要很多才對啊！"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，產業都在花蓮、臺東的……"],["蘇委員巧慧：理論上要有嘛！"],["曾主任委員智勇：有，還有原住民的聚會所我們也蓋了很多，很有特色，在海岸這個部分都有。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是啊，所以我覺得海是一個很重要的資產，海我們也需要去維護它，可是光是從文字的描述來看，這個文字其實也蠻重要，這個文字代表了你們原民會的態度和想法嘛，這本裡面其實沒有任何海的相關文字。我去找預算書，跟海唯一有直接相關聯性的是什麼？是南島民族論壇六年計畫，只有這個計畫是明白地看起來跟海有關係，好，那我們用這個計畫來看的話，剛剛好幾位委員也已經討論過了，這個計畫你們的KPI是什麼？效益是什麼？你們這個計畫的KPI是什麼？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們希望就是跟南島這幾個國家，不管是語言，不管是文化，我們都要去做連結。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是啊，我也是這樣希望，我希望能夠實質達到目的，可是KPI是什麼？KPI就是用來檢視這個計畫到底執行的方向對不對，可是我看到你們的KPI都是這種單件式的，會議開了幾場、多少人來參加等等，事實上到底對文化的復振能夠有什麼樣的效果，我其實真的看不太出來。我再舉一個例子來看，我們剛剛講到海，跟海最有關聯性的是什麼？其實是船嘛，因為要有船，才能夠出去到海上，除了個人下海之外，就是船才能讓你在海上走得更遠，我們看看原住民的文化，噶瑪蘭族有獨木舟，雅美族有拼板舟，凱達格蘭族有邊架艇，阿美族有竹帆筏，這些主委都知道嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：知道。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你都知道，我相信今天在場的有一半以上是不知道的狀況，我跟我小孩講的時候，他還以為凱達格蘭族的邊架艇是迪士尼卡通海洋奇緣裡面的，他以為是別人的，根本就不是臺灣的了，不是我們的了啊！所以你要讓原住民的文化能夠普及到社會大眾能夠認同，其實可以做的事情是非常、非常多的。不是說只做這件喔，我是用這個舟來舉例，用舟來舉例我們的海洋文化到底反映在你的哪一些計畫當中可以看得出來？比如你剛剛說的聚會所，聚會所裡面有用海洋文化來建構主旨的嗎？有這樣開嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：有。"],["蘇委員巧慧：如果有的話，我們是不是加碼補助，或是怎麼樣去設計，即要符合什麼條件才可以來領補助，如果你這個計畫是這樣開、你這樣寫的話，其實大家就知道現在原民會有這樣的概念，所以走山的、走海的都要能夠呈現這個部分，我看處長在後面一直點頭，這樣可能是報告寫得不夠清楚啦。所以我是建議，在為你們自己爭取預算的時候，不要只寫這種單件式的KPI，如開會開幾場、做了什麼，這個真的是很難打動人心，很難說服委員把錢發給你們，可以理解我今天質詢的重點嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，那你看這樣子的狀況，你自己的計畫沒有寫出要怎麼提振讓社會知道這個部分？我去看別的部會，剛剛你也同意要跟別的部會有更多的連結，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我在海委會的部分就有看到，海委會有復振航海文化力的計畫，做得很大啊，它還邀請臺東縣原住民族傳統竹筏人才培訓啟航等等，然後下面也是跟原住民族有關的，這兩則新聞，主委你有看過嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：有。"],["蘇委員巧慧：有喔？"],["曾主任委員智勇：有、有、有。"],["蘇委員巧慧：可是這裡面跟原民會完全沒有關聯性啊，你的會在裡面完全沒有被提到，你是有參與、有投入資金，他沒給你寫嗎？那你怎麼能夠放過海委會呢？有嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：沒有參與。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你沒有參與，人家做成這樣你都沒有參與，這樣不是白白浪費了這個資源跟原民會嗎？所以不管你從哪個角度，你看這就是你跟其他各部會的連結，我覺得相當有狀況嘛！所以今天我是用這個計畫第一個先跟原民會特別討論的部分，你自己的計畫到底有沒有辦法呈現是要復振原住民族文化的這個部分？你知道原民會的相關預算當中其實是有造舟計畫的，你知道嗎？主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：有一個造舟計畫。"],["蘇委員巧慧：哪一個？"],["曾主任委員智勇：就是在達悟族的一個拼板舟的造舟計畫。"],["蘇委員巧慧：其實是在你們原文會下面有一個很大的計畫啦，你們在原文會下面有一個很大的計畫，而且它要跨部會去爭取，因為造舟計畫其實很清楚，造舟涵蓋了祭儀、性別、生態知識、經濟、記憶、族群認同、航海的路線要怎麼規劃、船上要吃什麼、怎麼辨別方位，全部都是傳統智慧啊，你們原文會就有這樣的計畫，它要跟各部會去要，要跟外交部要，要跟文化部要，你們原民會知道嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們知道。"],["蘇委員巧慧：那你有幫忙嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：有啊，我們現在教文處這裡已經在協助了。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是啊，這就是我希望的，你把大計畫開出來，讓各部會都能夠來參與，這樣原民會才有機會可以做大，不然人家都覺得你們就自己玩自己的，我覺得這樣是很可惜的狀況，原民會其實是臺灣國家的寶貝，應該是要讓更多的人可以知道，大家都來參與你的好計畫，他們參與了，他們可以得分，我覺得這樣大家才會看重原民會，這是我們對原民會的態度。另外，實驗小學的部分其實也是同樣的狀況，因為我最近去烏來的德拉楠小學，主委，你是從屏東來的嘛！屏東有最多的原住民實驗小學對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：地磨兒超級有名嘛！屏東有6間，你過去在民族實驗學校的時候有遇到什麼樣的困難嗎？當時的原民會有給你什麼樣的補助、支持嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：其實當時我還在當原民處處長的時候，很多年以前都是縣裡面自己就現有的預算先做，原民會補助的實在比較少啦！"],["蘇委員巧慧：當時的你想不想要原民會給你更多的補助？"],["曾主任委員智勇：想啊！"],["蘇委員巧慧：你現在是原民會主委了。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我就會主動去協助這些……"],["蘇委員巧慧：你說的喔！"],["曾主任委員智勇：會。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這句要把我錄下來、截錄下來喔！"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，我們現在確實是看到了我們的實驗教育裡面，它其實有很多的困境，包括了預算，尤其最難的是在課程製作的部分，課程製作才是整個民族實驗學校最難的。所以一樣回到剛剛的那個部分，就是你跟教育部的連結有多少，你不能把這件事情全部都放給教育部，對啦！我們沒有那麼多的人力沒有錯，但是我們至少要確保教育部做的跟我們想要的是一樣的啊！所以今天用這兩個部分跟主委這邊就教，我是非常希望看到原民會未來是可以跟其他的各個部會多做連結，預算一起做、計畫一起開，這樣是比較符合理想的狀況，主委，可以齁？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以。"],["蘇委員巧慧：如果你已經有相關的資料，我今天質詢的不夠清楚的，麻煩你有的，你統統送過來，這樣我下一次就可以知道你其實做了很多。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：謝謝。"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝。"],["主席：羅智強、羅智強，羅智強委員不在。","我們請鄭天財委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-8","speakers":["張宏陸","麥玉珍","王美惠","黃建賓","黃捷","牛煦庭","李柏毅","盧縣一","高金素梅","徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","張智倫","林倩綺","吳琪銘","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳瑩","許宇甄","黃仁","丁學忠"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2024-11-11"],"gazette_id":"1139601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會、原住民族文化發展中心部分；三、審查 114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金─原住民族綜合發展基金；\n四、審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會及財團法人原住民族語言研究發\n展基金會114年度預算書案；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於不當黨產處理委員會單位預\n算","agenda_id":"1139601_00003"}}}