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{\"word\": \"謝\"}]}, {\"start\": 265.217, \"end\": 288.592, \"text\": \"對,這非常期待啦,非常期待就是其實這個問題的嚴重各位專家應該都比我更加的了解我們的65歲老人人口比例各位可以看目前下面這個藍色的部分就佔了人口比例2024年其實各國都差不多跟歐美的之間我們甚至比他們還好一點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 265.217, \"end\": 265.317, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 265.317, \"end\": 265.557, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 265.557, \"end\": 265.757, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 265.757, \"end\": 265.937, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 265.937, \"end\": 266.518, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 266.518, \"end\": 266.618, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 266.618, \"end\": 266.818, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 266.818, \"end\": 266.958, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 266.958, \"end\": 267.178, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 267.178, \"end\": 267.438, 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\"第二就是我們的社會高齡化已經定型了已經定型的就是這個問題不可逆轉未來我們的工作人口會消失將近千萬人八百多萬人這影響的是市場、企業、稅賦、撫養跟消退這全面性這麼大的影響\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 454.989, \"end\": 455.149, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 455.149, \"end\": 455.43, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 455.43, \"end\": 455.55, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 455.55, \"end\": 455.65, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 455.65, \"end\": 455.77, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 455.77, \"end\": 455.89, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 455.89, \"end\": 456.491, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 456.491, \"end\": 456.811, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 456.811, \"end\": 456.991, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 456.991, \"end\": 457.212, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 457.212, \"end\": 457.532, \"score\": 0.999}, 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\"start\": 581.348, \"end\": 581.368, \"score\": 0.022}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 581.368, \"end\": 581.468, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 581.468, \"end\": 581.489, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 581.489, \"end\": 581.509, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,682 --> 00:00:26,917\n午委員好院長好好久不見好像要見你一次很困難一個會期見一次OK好那個中央研究院呢是我非常羨慕的單位但是我們都沒資格進中央研究院所以呢對中央研究院就有非常多的想像跟期待那因為啊這一個\n\n2\n00:00:29,326 --> 00:00:51,117\n這個就像立法院我雖然很想跟你們說辛苦了但是立法院實在更辛苦更辛苦對不對每天這個陳出不窮的議題陳出不窮的事情我們都必須要立即的回應但是老實講有些呢我覺得太皮毛了\n\n3\n00:00:52,435 --> 00:00:58,297\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n\n4\n00:01:35,621 --> 00:01:44,340\n這些專家學者能夠好好的用心善於用自己的長處來努力但是\n\n5\n00:01:45,680 --> 00:02:10,628\n還是要解決這個我們社會的問題像比如說最近川普狂勝叫狂勝大家都被驚嚇所有的預測都失靈民調機構預測失靈很多研究機構很多包括什麼都是馬後炮開始提出各種的解釋我想要請問院長為什麼\n\n6\n00:02:14,765 --> 00:02:42,988\n這麼多的研究單位看不到這樣的事情通常研究單位是什麼樣的這麼大的一個風潮這麼大的改變大型的社會結構在在在轉變民意在改變的時候大家都為什麼方法都為什麼會這個判斷都沒辦法抓得準這是非常好的問題我個人不是這方面的專家我們是不是請這個比較投入的專家來\n\n7\n00:02:45,256 --> 00:02:56,876\n來回應一下問題為什麼這一定要施准先不要好了因為這不是我今天問的重點我只是要導出一個問題就是我們\n\n8\n00:02:58,362 --> 00:03:16,493\n我們在這樣子的一個研究單位裡面顯然常常會見數不見影太專注了看到大型那個超大的東西的時候就看不到了大家可能因為講究專業嘛就專在一個事情上面那我還是要回來關心的是\n\n9\n00:03:17,765 --> 00:03:42,937\n我上次就我關心人口的問題就是在立法院在推動的就是超高齡那10月17號我們國發會也公布的最新人口數據整個的看得出來是更加的險峻更加的嚴重那我還是我上次在3月20號有詢問過這個院長在請問中央研究院有在關注這件事情嗎\n\n10\n00:03:44,365 --> 00:03:52,692\n我們在這個人文社會領域有學者專家在這方面進行一些研討我們是不是請專家來\n\n11\n00:03:55,951 --> 00:04:22,676\n報告委員我們是人社中心張大謙那我們今年在這個五月之後經過委員的這個建議之後我們有開始盤點我們人社方面在這方面的人口老化的議題那我們現在目前有舉辦了三次的演講包括聚焦在勞動力參與包括在經濟的改革包括在這個健康方面的問題所以我們現在陸續還有三場部分然後後續會提出一些比較具體的一些方案在做建議這樣子OK很好謝謝\n\n12\n00:04:25,217 --> 00:04:48,592\n對,這非常期待啦,非常期待就是其實這個問題的嚴重各位專家應該都比我更加的了解我們的65歲老人人口比例各位可以看目前下面這個藍色的部分就佔了人口比例2024年其實各國都差不多跟歐美的之間我們甚至比他們還好一點\n\n13\n00:04:49,212 --> 00:05:11,519\n但是大家可以看到2017年的時候歐美還是留在二字頭欸二十幾老人人口還是佔二十幾趴我們已經到了46趴我們已經超越日本日本才38趴那這個天翻地覆的問題我們顯然我們國內經常會講說欸全世界都沒有在重視啊\n\n14\n00:05:12,625 --> 00:05:15,950\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案\n\n15\n00:05:31,329 --> 00:05:55,060\n這一頁是工作人口工作人口所佔的比例藍色的部分是2024年我們現在是有69.1但是到了2027年會只剩下46.6我們看到歐美各國大概都已經五、六十我們的競爭力又會更低一樣的都比日本還有50幾\n\n16\n00:05:57,475 --> 00:06:04,076\n那我們的扶養比大家也看到就是目前已經是3.6未來下一代一定會被我們壓垮\n\n17\n00:06:07,602 --> 00:06:27,192\n這個問題被稱為是教育問題、國防的問題、社福問題、經濟問題、全面性的崩潰的問題。甚至有人會說有三分之一的台灣的鄉鎮會變鬼城,會變消滅。這一些都是很大的問題,我覺得行政部門眼光沒有那麼圓。\n\n18\n00:06:28,473 --> 00:06:31,775\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11\n\n19\n00:06:54,085 --> 00:07:12,785\n對,也覺得這個不重要的話那我們整個大家都在睡覺少子化的問題這一次調查出來提早的15年本來估計是2054年這一次預估到2040年就會跌破10萬人然後我們每年投入的1200億\n\n20\n00:07:14,824 --> 00:07:34,029\n要想要翻轉少子化但是呢我們的少子化還提早15年顯見是什麼政策方向錯誤對策方向錯誤但是到底要怎麼做我們現在大概都是補助用補助的方法你們請學術單位也提出提出你們的研究的觀察\n\n21\n00:07:34,989 --> 00:07:52,949\n第二就是我們的社會高齡化已經定型了已經定型的就是這個問題不可逆轉未來我們的工作人口會消失將近千萬人八百多萬人這影響的是市場、企業、稅賦、撫養跟消退這全面性這麼大的影響\n\n22\n00:07:54,230 --> 00:08:17,807\n所以呢是不是個請問院長在這個問題上面可不可以請院長就這三方面當然隨時是自由的但是可以引導引導大家來關注從教育的層面從經濟的層面從勞工的層面來那因為這個是中研院院我向這個最重要的宗旨這是善盡社會關鍵的責任這問題絕對是關鍵也只有智庫有辦法解決這種問題\n\n23\n00:08:22,930 --> 00:08:39,266\n因為在我們現在的行政單位是沒辦法眼光看超過10年的事情的這麼大的一個天翻地覆的危機我就怎麼樣都喚不醒這個社會大家每天吵的都是眼前的事情那麼是不是能夠請\n\n24\n00:08:40,663 --> 00:08:55,917\n中央學術那好接下來我最後是不是要有這樣的期待是不是可以請中央研究院在三個月之內針對這樣子的超高齡少子超高齡社會來有提出一個\n\n25\n00:08:56,998 --> 00:09:11,153\n國家級的研究計畫這個計畫你能做到什麼地步我沒有意見但是總是要啟動要把這問題當作一個核心的問題來啟動請大家可不可以在三個月之內給我一份報告你們的構想\n\n26\n00:09:11,981 --> 00:09:38,260\n我們可以在三位內跟委員提出我們的構想規定能夠開始計畫但提出的構想或許可以這問題確實是我個人跟眾議院都很關心但是這方面國內的專家學者恐怕人數也不多所以有點實際的困難但是我們仍然會朝這方面登高一呼可能可以要各社會各方面來關注這個議題\n\n27\n00:09:40,063 --> 00:09:41,509\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1682\t26917\t午委員好院長好好久不見好像要見你一次很困難一個會期見一次OK好那個中央研究院呢是我非常羨慕的單位但是我們都沒資格進中央研究院所以呢對中央研究院就有非常多的想像跟期待那因為啊這一個\n29326\t51117\t這個就像立法院我雖然很想跟你們說辛苦了但是立法院實在更辛苦更辛苦對不對每天這個陳出不窮的議題陳出不窮的事情我們都必須要立即的回應但是老實講有些呢我覺得太皮毛了\n52435\t58297\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n73148\t94445\t獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲\n95621\t104340\t這些專家學者能夠好好的用心善於用自己的長處來努力但是\n105680\t130628\t還是要解決這個我們社會的問題像比如說最近川普狂勝叫狂勝大家都被驚嚇所有的預測都失靈民調機構預測失靈很多研究機構很多包括什麼都是馬後炮開始提出各種的解釋我想要請問院長為什麼\n134765\t162988\t這麼多的研究單位看不到這樣的事情通常研究單位是什麼樣的這麼大的一個風潮這麼大的改變大型的社會結構在在在轉變民意在改變的時候大家都為什麼方法都為什麼會這個判斷都沒辦法抓得準這是非常好的問題我個人不是這方面的專家我們是不是請這個比較投入的專家來\n165256\t176876\t來回應一下問題為什麼這一定要施准先不要好了因為這不是我今天問的重點我只是要導出一個問題就是我們\n178362\t196493\t我們在這樣子的一個研究單位裡面顯然常常會見數不見影太專注了看到大型那個超大的東西的時候就看不到了大家可能因為講究專業嘛就專在一個事情上面那我還是要回來關心的是\n197765\t222937\t我上次就我關心人口的問題就是在立法院在推動的就是超高齡那10月17號我們國發會也公布的最新人口數據整個的看得出來是更加的險峻更加的嚴重那我還是我上次在3月20號有詢問過這個院長在請問中央研究院有在關注這件事情嗎\n224365\t232692\t我們在這個人文社會領域有學者專家在這方面進行一些研討我們是不是請專家來\n235951\t262676\t報告委員我們是人社中心張大謙那我們今年在這個五月之後經過委員的這個建議之後我們有開始盤點我們人社方面在這方面的人口老化的議題那我們現在目前有舉辦了三次的演講包括聚焦在勞動力參與包括在經濟的改革包括在這個健康方面的問題所以我們現在陸續還有三場部分然後後續會提出一些比較具體的一些方案在做建議這樣子OK很好謝謝\n265217\t288592\t對,這非常期待啦,非常期待就是其實這個問題的嚴重各位專家應該都比我更加的了解我們的65歲老人人口比例各位可以看目前下面這個藍色的部分就佔了人口比例2024年其實各國都差不多跟歐美的之間我們甚至比他們還好一點\n289212\t311519\t但是大家可以看到2017年的時候歐美還是留在二字頭欸二十幾老人人口還是佔二十幾趴我們已經到了46趴我們已經超越日本日本才38趴那這個天翻地覆的問題我們顯然我們國內經常會講說欸全世界都沒有在重視啊\n312625\t315950\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案\n331329\t355060\t這一頁是工作人口工作人口所佔的比例藍色的部分是2024年我們現在是有69.1但是到了2027年會只剩下46.6我們看到歐美各國大概都已經五、六十我們的競爭力又會更低一樣的都比日本還有50幾\n357475\t364076\t那我們的扶養比大家也看到就是目前已經是3.6未來下一代一定會被我們壓垮\n367602\t387192\t這個問題被稱為是教育問題、國防的問題、社福問題、經濟問題、全面性的崩潰的問題。甚至有人會說有三分之一的台灣的鄉鎮會變鬼城,會變消滅。這一些都是很大的問題,我覺得行政部門眼光沒有那麼圓。\n388473\t391775\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11\n414085\t432785\t對,也覺得這個不重要的話那我們整個大家都在睡覺少子化的問題這一次調查出來提早的15年本來估計是2054年這一次預估到2040年就會跌破10萬人然後我們每年投入的1200億\n434824\t454029\t要想要翻轉少子化但是呢我們的少子化還提早15年顯見是什麼政策方向錯誤對策方向錯誤但是到底要怎麼做我們現在大概都是補助用補助的方法你們請學術單位也提出提出你們的研究的觀察\n454989\t472949\t第二就是我們的社會高齡化已經定型了已經定型的就是這個問題不可逆轉未來我們的工作人口會消失將近千萬人八百多萬人這影響的是市場、企業、稅賦、撫養跟消退這全面性這麼大的影響\n474230\t497807\t所以呢是不是個請問院長在這個問題上面可不可以請院長就這三方面當然隨時是自由的但是可以引導引導大家來關注從教育的層面從經濟的層面從勞工的層面來那因為這個是中研院院我向這個最重要的宗旨這是善盡社會關鍵的責任這問題絕對是關鍵也只有智庫有辦法解決這種問題\n502930\t519266\t因為在我們現在的行政單位是沒辦法眼光看超過10年的事情的這麼大的一個天翻地覆的危機我就怎麼樣都喚不醒這個社會大家每天吵的都是眼前的事情那麼是不是能夠請\n520663\t535917\t中央學術那好接下來我最後是不是要有這樣的期待是不是可以請中央研究院在三個月之內針對這樣子的超高齡少子超高齡社會來有提出一個\n536998\t551153\t國家級的研究計畫這個計畫你能做到什麼地步我沒有意見但是總是要啟動要把這問題當作一個核心的問題來啟動請大家可不可以在三個月之內給我一份報告你們的構想\n551981\t578260\t我們可以在三位內跟委員提出我們的構想規定能夠開始計畫但提出的構想或許可以這問題確實是我個人跟眾議院都很關心但是這方面國內的專家學者恐怕人數也不多所以有點實際的困難但是我們仍然會朝這方面登高一呼可能可以要各社會各方面來關注這個議題\n580063\t581509\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n","txt":"午委員好院長好好久不見好像要見你一次很困難一個會期見一次OK好那個中央研究院呢是我非常羨慕的單位但是我們都沒資格進中央研究院所以呢對中央研究院就有非常多的想像跟期待那因為啊這一個\n這個就像立法院我雖然很想跟你們說辛苦了但是立法院實在更辛苦更辛苦對不對每天這個陳出不窮的議題陳出不窮的事情我們都必須要立即的回應但是老實講有些呢我覺得太皮毛了\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲\n這些專家學者能夠好好的用心善於用自己的長處來努力但是\n還是要解決這個我們社會的問題像比如說最近川普狂勝叫狂勝大家都被驚嚇所有的預測都失靈民調機構預測失靈很多研究機構很多包括什麼都是馬後炮開始提出各種的解釋我想要請問院長為什麼\n這麼多的研究單位看不到這樣的事情通常研究單位是什麼樣的這麼大的一個風潮這麼大的改變大型的社會結構在在在轉變民意在改變的時候大家都為什麼方法都為什麼會這個判斷都沒辦法抓得準這是非常好的問題我個人不是這方面的專家我們是不是請這個比較投入的專家來\n來回應一下問題為什麼這一定要施准先不要好了因為這不是我今天問的重點我只是要導出一個問題就是我們\n我們在這樣子的一個研究單位裡面顯然常常會見數不見影太專注了看到大型那個超大的東西的時候就看不到了大家可能因為講究專業嘛就專在一個事情上面那我還是要回來關心的是\n我上次就我關心人口的問題就是在立法院在推動的就是超高齡那10月17號我們國發會也公布的最新人口數據整個的看得出來是更加的險峻更加的嚴重那我還是我上次在3月20號有詢問過這個院長在請問中央研究院有在關注這件事情嗎\n我們在這個人文社會領域有學者專家在這方面進行一些研討我們是不是請專家來\n報告委員我們是人社中心張大謙那我們今年在這個五月之後經過委員的這個建議之後我們有開始盤點我們人社方面在這方面的人口老化的議題那我們現在目前有舉辦了三次的演講包括聚焦在勞動力參與包括在經濟的改革包括在這個健康方面的問題所以我們現在陸續還有三場部分然後後續會提出一些比較具體的一些方案在做建議這樣子OK很好謝謝\n對,這非常期待啦,非常期待就是其實這個問題的嚴重各位專家應該都比我更加的了解我們的65歲老人人口比例各位可以看目前下面這個藍色的部分就佔了人口比例2024年其實各國都差不多跟歐美的之間我們甚至比他們還好一點\n但是大家可以看到2017年的時候歐美還是留在二字頭欸二十幾老人人口還是佔二十幾趴我們已經到了46趴我們已經超越日本日本才38趴那這個天翻地覆的問題我們顯然我們國內經常會講說欸全世界都沒有在重視啊\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案\n這一頁是工作人口工作人口所佔的比例藍色的部分是2024年我們現在是有69.1但是到了2027年會只剩下46.6我們看到歐美各國大概都已經五、六十我們的競爭力又會更低一樣的都比日本還有50幾\n那我們的扶養比大家也看到就是目前已經是3.6未來下一代一定會被我們壓垮\n這個問題被稱為是教育問題、國防的問題、社福問題、經濟問題、全面性的崩潰的問題。甚至有人會說有三分之一的台灣的鄉鎮會變鬼城,會變消滅。這一些都是很大的問題,我覺得行政部門眼光沒有那麼圓。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11\n對,也覺得這個不重要的話那我們整個大家都在睡覺少子化的問題這一次調查出來提早的15年本來估計是2054年這一次預估到2040年就會跌破10萬人然後我們每年投入的1200億\n要想要翻轉少子化但是呢我們的少子化還提早15年顯見是什麼政策方向錯誤對策方向錯誤但是到底要怎麼做我們現在大概都是補助用補助的方法你們請學術單位也提出提出你們的研究的觀察\n第二就是我們的社會高齡化已經定型了已經定型的就是這個問題不可逆轉未來我們的工作人口會消失將近千萬人八百多萬人這影響的是市場、企業、稅賦、撫養跟消退這全面性這麼大的影響\n所以呢是不是個請問院長在這個問題上面可不可以請院長就這三方面當然隨時是自由的但是可以引導引導大家來關注從教育的層面從經濟的層面從勞工的層面來那因為這個是中研院院我向這個最重要的宗旨這是善盡社會關鍵的責任這問題絕對是關鍵也只有智庫有辦法解決這種問題\n因為在我們現在的行政單位是沒辦法眼光看超過10年的事情的這麼大的一個天翻地覆的危機我就怎麼樣都喚不醒這個社會大家每天吵的都是眼前的事情那麼是不是能夠請\n中央學術那好接下來我最後是不是要有這樣的期待是不是可以請中央研究院在三個月之內針對這樣子的超高齡少子超高齡社會來有提出一個\n國家級的研究計畫這個計畫你能做到什麼地步我沒有意見但是總是要啟動要把這問題當作一個核心的問題來啟動請大家可不可以在三個月之內給我一份報告你們的構想\n我們可以在三位內跟委員提出我們的構想規定能夠開始計畫但提出的構想或許可以這問題確實是我個人跟眾議院都很關心但是這方面國內的專家學者恐怕人數也不多所以有點實際的困難但是我們仍然會朝這方面登高一呼可能可以要各社會各方面來關注這個議題\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.682 --> 00:26.917\n午委員好院長好好久不見好像要見你一次很困難一個會期見一次OK好那個中央研究院呢是我非常羨慕的單位但是我們都沒資格進中央研究院所以呢對中央研究院就有非常多的想像跟期待那因為啊這一個\n\n00:29.326 --> 00:51.117\n這個就像立法院我雖然很想跟你們說辛苦了但是立法院實在更辛苦更辛苦對不對每天這個陳出不窮的議題陳出不窮的事情我們都必須要立即的回應但是老實講有些呢我覺得太皮毛了\n\n00:52.435 --> 00:58.297\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關\n\n01:35.621 --> 01:44.340\n這些專家學者能夠好好的用心善於用自己的長處來努力但是\n\n01:45.680 --> 02:10.628\n還是要解決這個我們社會的問題像比如說最近川普狂勝叫狂勝大家都被驚嚇所有的預測都失靈民調機構預測失靈很多研究機構很多包括什麼都是馬後炮開始提出各種的解釋我想要請問院長為什麼\n\n02:14.765 --> 02:42.988\n這麼多的研究單位看不到這樣的事情通常研究單位是什麼樣的這麼大的一個風潮這麼大的改變大型的社會結構在在在轉變民意在改變的時候大家都為什麼方法都為什麼會這個判斷都沒辦法抓得準這是非常好的問題我個人不是這方面的專家我們是不是請這個比較投入的專家來\n\n02:45.256 --> 02:56.876\n來回應一下問題為什麼這一定要施准先不要好了因為這不是我今天問的重點我只是要導出一個問題就是我們\n\n02:58.362 --> 03:16.493\n我們在這樣子的一個研究單位裡面顯然常常會見數不見影太專注了看到大型那個超大的東西的時候就看不到了大家可能因為講究專業嘛就專在一個事情上面那我還是要回來關心的是\n\n03:17.765 --> 03:42.937\n我上次就我關心人口的問題就是在立法院在推動的就是超高齡那10月17號我們國發會也公布的最新人口數據整個的看得出來是更加的險峻更加的嚴重那我還是我上次在3月20號有詢問過這個院長在請問中央研究院有在關注這件事情嗎\n\n03:44.365 --> 03:52.692\n我們在這個人文社會領域有學者專家在這方面進行一些研討我們是不是請專家來\n\n03:55.951 --> 04:22.676\n報告委員我們是人社中心張大謙那我們今年在這個五月之後經過委員的這個建議之後我們有開始盤點我們人社方面在這方面的人口老化的議題那我們現在目前有舉辦了三次的演講包括聚焦在勞動力參與包括在經濟的改革包括在這個健康方面的問題所以我們現在陸續還有三場部分然後後續會提出一些比較具體的一些方案在做建議這樣子OK很好謝謝\n\n04:25.217 --> 04:48.592\n對,這非常期待啦,非常期待就是其實這個問題的嚴重各位專家應該都比我更加的了解我們的65歲老人人口比例各位可以看目前下面這個藍色的部分就佔了人口比例2024年其實各國都差不多跟歐美的之間我們甚至比他們還好一點\n\n04:49.212 --> 05:11.519\n但是大家可以看到2017年的時候歐美還是留在二字頭欸二十幾老人人口還是佔二十幾趴我們已經到了46趴我們已經超越日本日本才38趴那這個天翻地覆的問題我們顯然我們國內經常會講說欸全世界都沒有在重視啊\n\n05:12.625 --> 05:15.950\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案\n\n05:31.329 --> 05:55.060\n這一頁是工作人口工作人口所佔的比例藍色的部分是2024年我們現在是有69.1但是到了2027年會只剩下46.6我們看到歐美各國大概都已經五、六十我們的競爭力又會更低一樣的都比日本還有50幾\n\n05:57.475 --> 06:04.076\n那我們的扶養比大家也看到就是目前已經是3.6未來下一代一定會被我們壓垮\n\n06:07.602 --> 06:27.192\n這個問題被稱為是教育問題、國防的問題、社福問題、經濟問題、全面性的崩潰的問題。甚至有人會說有三分之一的台灣的鄉鎮會變鬼城,會變消滅。這一些都是很大的問題,我覺得行政部門眼光沒有那麼圓。\n\n06:28.473 --> 06:31.775\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11\n\n06:54.085 --> 07:12.785\n對,也覺得這個不重要的話那我們整個大家都在睡覺少子化的問題這一次調查出來提早的15年本來估計是2054年這一次預估到2040年就會跌破10萬人然後我們每年投入的1200億\n\n07:14.824 --> 07:34.029\n要想要翻轉少子化但是呢我們的少子化還提早15年顯見是什麼政策方向錯誤對策方向錯誤但是到底要怎麼做我們現在大概都是補助用補助的方法你們請學術單位也提出提出你們的研究的觀察\n\n07:34.989 --> 07:52.949\n第二就是我們的社會高齡化已經定型了已經定型的就是這個問題不可逆轉未來我們的工作人口會消失將近千萬人八百多萬人這影響的是市場、企業、稅賦、撫養跟消退這全面性這麼大的影響\n\n07:54.230 --> 08:17.807\n所以呢是不是個請問院長在這個問題上面可不可以請院長就這三方面當然隨時是自由的但是可以引導引導大家來關注從教育的層面從經濟的層面從勞工的層面來那因為這個是中研院院我向這個最重要的宗旨這是善盡社會關鍵的責任這問題絕對是關鍵也只有智庫有辦法解決這種問題\n\n08:22.930 --> 08:39.266\n因為在我們現在的行政單位是沒辦法眼光看超過10年的事情的這麼大的一個天翻地覆的危機我就怎麼樣都喚不醒這個社會大家每天吵的都是眼前的事情那麼是不是能夠請\n\n08:40.663 --> 08:55.917\n中央學術那好接下來我最後是不是要有這樣的期待是不是可以請中央研究院在三個月之內針對這樣子的超高齡少子超高齡社會來有提出一個\n\n08:56.998 --> 09:11.153\n國家級的研究計畫這個計畫你能做到什麼地步我沒有意見但是總是要啟動要把這問題當作一個核心的問題來啟動請大家可不可以在三個月之內給我一份報告你們的構想\n\n09:11.981 --> 09:38.260\n我們可以在三位內跟委員提出我們的構想規定能夠開始計畫但提出的構想或許可以這問題確實是我個人跟眾議院都很關心但是這方面國內的專家學者恐怕人數也不多所以有點實際的困難但是我們仍然會朝這方面登高一呼可能可以要各社會各方面來關注這個議題\n\n09:40.063 --> 09:41.509\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.682,"end":26.917,"text":"午委員好院長好好久不見好像要見你一次很困難一個會期見一次OK好那個中央研究院呢是我非常羨慕的單位但是我們都沒資格進中央研究院所以呢對中央研究院就有非常多的想像跟期待那因為啊這一個"},{"start":29.326,"end":51.117,"text":"這個就像立法院我雖然很想跟你們說辛苦了但是立法院實在更辛苦更辛苦對不對每天這個陳出不窮的議題陳出不窮的事情我們都必須要立即的回應但是老實講有些呢我覺得太皮毛了"},{"start":52.435,"end":58.297,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":73.148,"end":94.445,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":95.621,"end":104.34,"text":"這些專家學者能夠好好的用心善於用自己的長處來努力但是"},{"start":105.68,"end":130.628,"text":"還是要解決這個我們社會的問題像比如說最近川普狂勝叫狂勝大家都被驚嚇所有的預測都失靈民調機構預測失靈很多研究機構很多包括什麼都是馬後炮開始提出各種的解釋我想要請問院長為什麼"},{"start":134.765,"end":162.988,"text":"這麼多的研究單位看不到這樣的事情通常研究單位是什麼樣的這麼大的一個風潮這麼大的改變大型的社會結構在在在轉變民意在改變的時候大家都為什麼方法都為什麼會這個判斷都沒辦法抓得準這是非常好的問題我個人不是這方面的專家我們是不是請這個比較投入的專家來"},{"start":165.256,"end":176.876,"text":"來回應一下問題為什麼這一定要施准先不要好了因為這不是我今天問的重點我只是要導出一個問題就是我們"},{"start":178.362,"end":196.493,"text":"我們在這樣子的一個研究單位裡面顯然常常會見數不見影太專注了看到大型那個超大的東西的時候就看不到了大家可能因為講究專業嘛就專在一個事情上面那我還是要回來關心的是"},{"start":197.765,"end":222.937,"text":"我上次就我關心人口的問題就是在立法院在推動的就是超高齡那10月17號我們國發會也公布的最新人口數據整個的看得出來是更加的險峻更加的嚴重那我還是我上次在3月20號有詢問過這個院長在請問中央研究院有在關注這件事情嗎"},{"start":224.365,"end":232.692,"text":"我們在這個人文社會領域有學者專家在這方面進行一些研討我們是不是請專家來"},{"start":235.951,"end":262.676,"text":"報告委員我們是人社中心張大謙那我們今年在這個五月之後經過委員的這個建議之後我們有開始盤點我們人社方面在這方面的人口老化的議題那我們現在目前有舉辦了三次的演講包括聚焦在勞動力參與包括在經濟的改革包括在這個健康方面的問題所以我們現在陸續還有三場部分然後後續會提出一些比較具體的一些方案在做建議這樣子OK很好謝謝"},{"start":265.217,"end":288.592,"text":"對,這非常期待啦,非常期待就是其實這個問題的嚴重各位專家應該都比我更加的了解我們的65歲老人人口比例各位可以看目前下面這個藍色的部分就佔了人口比例2024年其實各國都差不多跟歐美的之間我們甚至比他們還好一點"},{"start":289.212,"end":311.519,"text":"但是大家可以看到2017年的時候歐美還是留在二字頭欸二十幾老人人口還是佔二十幾趴我們已經到了46趴我們已經超越日本日本才38趴那這個天翻地覆的問題我們顯然我們國內經常會講說欸全世界都沒有在重視啊"},{"start":312.625,"end":315.95,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":331.329,"end":355.06,"text":"這一頁是工作人口工作人口所佔的比例藍色的部分是2024年我們現在是有69.1但是到了2027年會只剩下46.6我們看到歐美各國大概都已經五、六十我們的競爭力又會更低一樣的都比日本還有50幾"},{"start":357.475,"end":364.076,"text":"那我們的扶養比大家也看到就是目前已經是3.6未來下一代一定會被我們壓垮"},{"start":367.602,"end":387.192,"text":"這個問題被稱為是教育問題、國防的問題、社福問題、經濟問題、全面性的崩潰的問題。甚至有人會說有三分之一的台灣的鄉鎮會變鬼城,會變消滅。這一些都是很大的問題,我覺得行政部門眼光沒有那麼圓。"},{"start":388.473,"end":391.775,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院函．為11"},{"start":414.085,"end":432.785,"text":"對,也覺得這個不重要的話那我們整個大家都在睡覺少子化的問題這一次調查出來提早的15年本來估計是2054年這一次預估到2040年就會跌破10萬人然後我們每年投入的1200億"},{"start":434.824,"end":454.029,"text":"要想要翻轉少子化但是呢我們的少子化還提早15年顯見是什麼政策方向錯誤對策方向錯誤但是到底要怎麼做我們現在大概都是補助用補助的方法你們請學術單位也提出提出你們的研究的觀察"},{"start":454.989,"end":472.949,"text":"第二就是我們的社會高齡化已經定型了已經定型的就是這個問題不可逆轉未來我們的工作人口會消失將近千萬人八百多萬人這影響的是市場、企業、稅賦、撫養跟消退這全面性這麼大的影響"},{"start":474.23,"end":497.807,"text":"所以呢是不是個請問院長在這個問題上面可不可以請院長就這三方面當然隨時是自由的但是可以引導引導大家來關注從教育的層面從經濟的層面從勞工的層面來那因為這個是中研院院我向這個最重要的宗旨這是善盡社會關鍵的責任這問題絕對是關鍵也只有智庫有辦法解決這種問題"},{"start":502.93,"end":519.266,"text":"因為在我們現在的行政單位是沒辦法眼光看超過10年的事情的這麼大的一個天翻地覆的危機我就怎麼樣都喚不醒這個社會大家每天吵的都是眼前的事情那麼是不是能夠請"},{"start":520.663,"end":535.917,"text":"中央學術那好接下來我最後是不是要有這樣的期待是不是可以請中央研究院在三個月之內針對這樣子的超高齡少子超高齡社會來有提出一個"},{"start":536.998,"end":551.153,"text":"國家級的研究計畫這個計畫你能做到什麼地步我沒有意見但是總是要啟動要把這問題當作一個核心的問題來啟動請大家可不可以在三個月之內給我一份報告你們的構想"},{"start":551.981,"end":578.26,"text":"我們可以在三位內跟委員提出我們的構想規定能夠開始計畫但提出的構想或許可以這問題確實是我個人跟眾議院都很關心但是這方面國內的專家學者恐怕人數也不多所以有點實際的困難但是我們仍然會朝這方面登高一呼可能可以要各社會各方面來關注這個議題"},{"start":580.063,"end":581.509,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":727,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（11時34分）有請廖院長。"],["主席：有請院長。"],["廖院長俊智：吳委員好。"],["吳委員春城：院長好，好久不見。"],["廖院長俊智：好久不見。"],["吳委員春城：好像要見你一次很困難，一個會期見一次。中央研究院是我非常羨慕的單位，但是我們都沒資格進中央研究院。"],["廖院長俊智：哪裡！哪裡！"],["吳委員春城：所以對中央研究院就有非常多的想像跟期待，因為這個就像立法院，我雖然很想跟你們說辛苦了，但是立法院實在更辛苦、更辛苦，對不對？每天層出不窮的議題、層出不窮的事情，我們都必須要立即的回應。但是老實講，有些我覺得太皮毛了，我們都只能制式反應。所以我們非常期待有這樣的智庫，像一盞明燈一樣的，不然我們國家整天不曉得在吵什麼、方向到底對不對，所以，對中央研究院這麼多專家學者能夠……雖然說象牙塔，不過象牙塔還是很重要的，因為你們可以冷靜一點，冷靜一點才能夠有警醒的心智，可以去關注、專心的研究問題，我覺得這一點是很重要的。所以也期待這些專家學者能夠好好的用心，善於用自己的長處來努力，但是還是要解決我們社會的問題，比如說最近川普「狂勝」！大家都被驚嚇到，而且所有的預測都失靈，民調機構預測失靈，很多研究機構，包括什麼都是馬後炮，開始提出各種解釋。我想要請問院長，為什麼這麼多的研究單位看不到這樣的事情？通常研究單位是什麼樣的……這麼大的一個風潮、這麼大的改變，大型的社會結構在轉變，民意在改變的時候，大家為什麼判斷都沒辦法抓得準？　"],["廖院長俊智：這是非常好的問題，我個人不是這方面的專家，我們是不是請比較投入的專家來回應一下問題，為什麼民調失準？"],["吳委員春城：簡單回答一下就好了。先不要好了，先不要，因為這不是我今天問的重點，我只是要導出一個問題。就是我們在這樣子一個研究單位裡面，顯然常常會見樹不見林，太專注了，看到大型、那個超大的東西的時候就看不到了，大家可能因為講究專業，就專注在一個事情上面。","我還是要回來關心的是人口的問題，就是在立法院推動的超高齡法案，10月17號國發會也公布了最新人口數據，整個看得出來是更加的險峻、更加的嚴重。我在3月20號有詢問過院長，再請問中央研究院有在關注這件事情嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：我們在人文社會領域，有學者專家在這方面進行了一些研討，我們是不是請專家來說明？"],["詹副主任大千：報告委員，我是人社中心詹大千。我們今年在5月之後，經過委員的建議之後，我們有開始盤點我們人社在這方面的人口老化議題，我們目前舉辦了三次演講，包括聚焦在勞動力參與、包括在經濟的改革、包括健康方面的問題，所以我們陸續還有三場，後續會提出一些比較具體的方案再做建議，謝謝。"],["吳委員春城：OK！很好，謝謝，非常期待。其實這個問題的嚴重，各位專家應該都比我更加的了解，我們65歲的老人人口比例，各位可以看下面藍色的部分，就是占的人口比例，2024年其實各國都差不多，跟歐美之間相比，我們甚至比他們還好一點；但是大家可以看到2070年的時候，歐美還是留在二字頭，老人人口還是占百分之二十幾，我們已經到了46%，我們已經超越日本，日本才38%。這是天翻地覆的問題，我們國內經常會說全世界都沒有在重視，我們臺灣習慣走在全世界的後面，尾隨人家，但是這件事情我們是要走在全世界的最前面，這需要我們的學者也要有這種觀念，因為我們的問題最嚴重。工作人口也是一樣，這一頁是工作人口，工作人口所占的比例，藍色的部分是2024年，我們現在還是有69.1%，但是到了2070年會只剩下46.6%，我們看到歐美各國大概都是五、六十，我們的競爭力又會更低了，連日本都還有百分之五十幾。我們的扶養比大家看到目前是3.6，未來下一代一定會被我們壓垮。這個問題被稱為是教育問題、國防問題、社福問題、經濟問題，全面性崩潰的問題，甚至有人說有三分之一的臺灣鄉鎮會變鬼城，會被消滅！這些都是何等大的問題，我覺得行政部門眼光沒有那麼遠，眼光都是看在眼前！老實講不僅是眼前，眼光還在過去！我們1970年的人口是金字塔，我們未來是倒金字塔；但是我們現在行政部門的政策大概都還是用1970年金字塔的思維在訂政策。這個要把它叫醒，真的是要靠學術單位喚醒，振聾發聵，學術單位也覺得這個不重要的話，那我們大家就都在睡覺。","少子化的問題，這一次調查出來提早了15年，本來估計是2054年，這一次預估到2040年就會跌破10萬人。然後我們每年投入1,200億想要翻轉少子化，但是我們的少子化還提早15年，顯見是什麼？政策方向錯誤、對策方向錯誤，但是到底要怎麼做？我們現在大概都是用補助的方法，能不能請學術單位也提出你們的研究觀察？再來就是我們的社會，高齡化已經定型了，這個問題不可逆轉，未來我們的工作人口會消失將近千萬人、八百多萬人，這影響的是市場、企業、稅負、扶養、消費衰退，全面性這麼大的影響。所以在這個問題上面，可不可以請院長就這三方面……當然學術是自由的，但是可以引導大家來關注，從教育的層面、從經濟的層面、從勞工的層面來。我想中研院最重要的宗旨就是善盡社會關鍵的責任，這問題絕對是關鍵，也只有智庫有辦法解決這種問題，畢竟我們現在行政單位的眼光沒有辦法看超過10年的事情。這麼大的一個天翻地覆的危機，我怎麼樣都喚不醒這個社會，大家每天吵的都是眼前的事情，是不是能夠請中央學術……接下來我最後是不是能有這樣的期待？是不是可以請中央研究院在三個月之內針對這樣子的少子、超高齡社會來提出一個國家級的研究計畫？這個計畫你能做到什麼地步我沒有意見，但是總是要啟動，要把這個問題當作一個核心的問題來啟動，可不可以在三個月之內給我一份報告，提出你們的構想？"],["廖院長俊智：我們可以在三個月內跟委員……"],["吳委員春城：可以？"],["廖院長俊智：提出我們的構想，不一定能夠開始計畫，但提出一個構想或許可以。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝。"],["廖院長俊智：這個問題確實我個人跟中研院都很關心，但是這方面國內的專家學者恐怕人數也不多，所以有點實際的困難，但是我們仍然會朝這方向……"],["吳委員春城：對，登高一呼嘛！要社會各方面來關注這個議題，那三個月就拜託院長。"],["廖院長俊智：好，謝謝。"],["吳委員春城：謝謝。"],["主席：院長請回，謝謝吳春城委員的質詢。","再來是范雲委員質詢，我們請陳秀寳代主席。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-8","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","萬美玲","吳沛憶","林倩綺","張雅琳","陳培瑜","吳春城","羅智強","翁曉玲","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2024-11-11"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 114年度中央政府總預\n算案有關中央研究院單位預算案；三、審查 114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院科學研究\n基金附屬單位預算案；四、處理中央研究院函，為112年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送第2目「一\n般學術研究及評議」預算繼續凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案；五、審查中央研究院函，為113\n年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議(一)「自然及人文社會科學研究」預算凍結100萬元書面報\n告，請查照案（第二案及第三案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00005"}}}