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\"text\": \"好,那今天問題又來啦。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 124.804, \"end\": 124.824, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 124.824, \"end\": 124.904, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 124.904, \"end\": 124.924, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 124.924, \"end\": 124.984, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 124.984, \"end\": 125.004, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 125.004, \"end\": 125.024, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 153.453, \"end\": 179.68, \"text\": \"你們這個所謂的新的技術天然氣氣炭燃青吶這個混金的一個發電你們最後選在興達嘛也就是高雄那你跟我講說欸這個是你們是計劃性那最重要的是台電在合作執行面在台電那台電選擇了興達高雄廠那有沒有這個機會中研院去做高度的建議其實台中也可以做一個參考這個部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 153.453, \"end\": 153.953, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 153.953, \"end\": 154.173, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": 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00:00:31,950\n羅委員好。好,院長好。院長上次拜訪我的時候啊,當時你有跟我提到天然氣啊,去碳燃金的這一項技術。是。那當時我想大家都很關心我們的社會啊,到底現在面對能源的危機,有什麼樣的因應措施。我想對這個天然氣啊,去碳燃金呢,我們有這樣子的一個混金發電,4幣。\n\n3\n00:00:33,792 --> 00:00:48,147\n在過程當中有一些研究我想要就幾個問題跟你請教一下天然氣發電會不會造成空污天然氣發電的造成空污遠比這個煤要少很多沒有錯我們但是這個是比較問題但我現在問你就單純\n\n4\n00:00:52,182 --> 00:01:09,229\n我們請教天然氣發電有沒有造成空污那它仍然是會排二氧化碳從廣義角度仍然是會有這個二氧化碳的排放但是排放已經很少那我們用去碳燃金就是希望說進一步再降低它的排碳\n\n5\n00:01:10,089 --> 00:01:11,130\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n6\n00:01:26,318 --> 00:01:49,204\n為什麼中研院會去研究這一項技術就是我們個人有認為天然氣在燃燒的過程有所謂的排碳的問題所以我們希望能夠達到好還要更好還要再追求完美所以中研院研究這樣的技術我們認同啊所以今天我們看到天然氣發電是會造成少數的空汙可以這樣子去形容對吧就是說它會排碳\n\n7\n00:01:49,884 --> 00:01:50,185\n對,他本身的天然氣發電已經\n\n8\n00:02:04,804 --> 00:02:05,024\n好,那今天問題又來啦。\n\n9\n00:02:33,453 --> 00:02:59,680\n你們這個所謂的新的技術天然氣氣炭燃青吶這個混金的一個發電你們最後選在興達嘛也就是高雄那你跟我講說欸這個是你們是計劃性那最重要的是台電在合作執行面在台電那台電選擇了興達高雄廠那有沒有這個機會中研院去做高度的建議其實台中也可以做一個參考這個部分\n\n10\n00:03:00,461 --> 00:03:17,682\n我想下階段當然有機會但是目前據我們了解是現實上的困難現實上有沒有困難我們再來側面了解一下剛剛我有聽到其他的委員也很關心那你有說到有沒有這樣的場域有沒有這樣子的空間我坦白跟你講怎麼可能會沒有\n\n11\n00:03:18,783 --> 00:03:35,676\n中火作為世界前幾大火力發電台灣第一大火力發電現在正在做所謂的蒸汽的一個工程他當然可以把天然氣機組改成所謂的混金發電阿\n\n12\n00:03:36,457 --> 00:03:58,562\n但是那個大型基礎我們現在基礎還沒有辦法到那個階段很抱歉我們希望示範基地台中也有這樣子的機會嘛再來把所謂的藍莓基礎拆除掉藍莓基礎拆除掉一定會有更大的空間來做混金發電嘛這是可以討論的這個都可以討論但是事實上中研院有沒有強力的建議我希望雖然我們因為我曾經許諾過\n\n13\n00:03:59,642 --> 00:04:25,096\n不排除任何形式的來想辦法讓中央對台中好一點我也希望在這個場域上能夠建議你拜託你能夠跟台電來建議混金發電示範基地能夠選擇在台中這個部分您可以幫我們發聲嗎我想我們不只在台中不只在新大我們希望在全國各地都能夠做從小規模開始漸漸的擴散到我們持續關注這一項技術的發展也希望您能夠幫台中人說話好不好\n\n14\n00:04:26,156 --> 00:04:40,772\n好謝謝那再來我想請問一下因為中央院算是總統府直屬的那在這幾個月當中我們看到賴清德總統上任至今有沒有跟你開會討論或者是探討未來性有沒有什麼研究計畫這個部分可以分享嗎\n\n15\n00:04:41,671 --> 00:05:09,046\n主要是談能源的問題跟南部園區的發展能源有沒有任性社會這部分倒比較少都是能源為主能源跟南部園區的發展我希望就剛剛還是延伸剛剛的問題既然他有討論到能源是不是所謂的混金發電能夠建議他中火不乏是一個選項我想有這個機會從你的口中講出對台中人有利的話或許總統他也可能會採納這部分可以嗎\n\n16\n00:05:11,167 --> 00:05:32,718\n愿长,请问您有听过翰林院吗?有。大概都知道了。我想早年比较常听到有些人说中研院就好像唐代的翰林院。所以研究院入众的一个指挥数就是唐代翰林院的一个象征。愿长,请问您知道翰林学士跟翰林供奉的差别吗?\n\n17\n00:05:33,157 --> 00:05:48,013\n我不知道但是這個中央研究院被人家比喻成漢林院只是一個比喻這個我們沒有要救教這是網路上的一個探討我們沒有要做任何的批評我只是跟你說救教這樣子的一個前言\n\n18\n00:05:48,913 --> 00:06:07,228\n那這部分我不瞭解好沒關係有機會網路上翻一翻漢林學士跟漢林供奉的一個差別我想我們要正視的是一些問題我們現在看到老師講中研院的一個社會科學的研究實際上是某些部分是有在退步的你有發現嗎\n\n19\n00:06:08,891 --> 00:06:34,532\n社會科學研究我想經濟的空間是有但是我恐怕不見得說是那你聽聽看我說退步的地方在哪裡好不好當然我不會去否認某些人正在努力而是外部的一些因素也造成了這個社會科學的研究上造成一些斷層比如說台灣的學生願意在教育上投資自己的意願是越來越少\n\n20\n00:06:35,293 --> 00:06:46,704\n好那再來台灣社會科學學生出國深造的我們看到比例也逐漸降低這都會影響到我們在社會科學研究產生一些斷層\n\n21\n00:06:48,330 --> 00:07:13,175\n這部分事實上問題相當複雜因為台灣現在大力要發展社會科學特別在大學也發展社會科學的研究所那假如我們已經很少的學生我們又鼓勵他到國外去念書那我們收到什麼樣的學生就這兩件事情是互斥的所以您當然會看到說我們出國人少那可能是因為我們在國內希望也大力發展\n\n22\n00:07:16,796 --> 00:07:45,386\n社會科學研究所的學程所以是這樣子的狀況當然我們仍然可以多鼓勵學生投入社會科學畢竟社會科學是非常重要的所以我們也推出了中央研究院人文社會科學精英獎學金博士生的精英獎學金一次給他五年的獎助金讓他沒有生活的憂慮能夠前兩年拿四萬後三年拿五萬\n\n23\n00:07:51,771 --> 00:08:09,926\n當然我們不是說一昧的鼓勵我們這些學生一定要出國但是我想就像你說的雖然是互斥但是我們也不能夠排除出國深造他所學到的知識不一定我想這個部分你可以認同吧在台灣有台灣深造的一些好處在國外也有國外的好處\n\n24\n00:08:10,586 --> 00:08:27,190\n閱讀：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n\n25\n00:08:33,672 --> 00:08:54,751\n當時當每當國內外發生種種的與經濟直接或間接的相關議題在各類媒體和訊息管道都可以看到這兩個財團法人提出種種的分析那我想這兩個財團法人就像我之前有跟你講過的台灣綜合研究院以及財團法人中華經濟研究院那這兩個財團法人提出的種種分析跟看法\n\n26\n00:08:55,231 --> 00:09:05,687\n而中央研究院幾乎沒有只會寫期刊文章當時你也有給我一些回應說會請經濟所可以思考朝這個方向來做稍微的調整請問後續呢請經濟所副總長\n\n27\n00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:36,391\n委員好經濟所現在曾經所說我們大部分同仁從事的是基礎科學的經濟研究但是慢慢的也在像我們每半年有一次的這個經濟預測它的這個運作也慢慢擴充了包括我們已經開始從事一個臺灣消費者預期跟政治反應調查另外也有越來越多同仁開始從事政策研究包括勞工改革勞保的改革\n\n28\n00:09:38,152 --> 00:09:53,127\n包括這個這個長照健保的部分所以我們也未來也在12月要開一個研討會那有改進都好但是我想國際上跟國內有許多重要的議題比如川普2.0的一個局勢發展\n\n29\n00:09:54,048 --> 00:09:54,348\n院長您覺得呢?\n\n30\n00:10:16,567 --> 00:10:42,321\n我覺得朝這方向努力是對的因為我們的三大這個院警目標之中其中是是善盡社會關鍵責任就是這一項我想我們投入這麼多筆的預算在中研院符合社會的期待當然你們有很多的重擔跟眾所的期盼責任重大但是我們都希望中研院可以更好符合社會的一個期待那我想另外再請問一下風機研究這個部分\n\n31\n00:10:43,281 --> 00:11:07,139\n風機研究我們都看到風能發電機是嗎?風機對,風機研究我們沒有做這方面的研究有啦在這就一位同仁2016年你上任的時候2018年有做這樣中央醫院環境變遷中心有進行一項研究去了解風機低頻噪音對心臟的不利影響不好意思我標題講的比較短那你等我敘述內容嘛好不好\n\n32\n00:11:07,819 --> 00:11:23,268\n好那都有做這個民眾啊居民經過兩年的監測紀錄長期接收低頻噪音後居民心律的變異顯著增加心律變異可能會引起頭痛難以集中注意力\n\n33\n00:11:23,948 --> 00:11:50,722\n疫怒、疲勞、頭暈相關的研究指出。好那最後我要想的是你們有這樣的研究那最後我預計大概是10月左右才出來的這份研究那政府你們有沒有去建議他們會不會採納他後續有沒有什麼一樣的一個具體的作為我們希望會後能夠提供給我你們的研究很好但政府有沒有採納政府有沒有實際去做這些事情我們要後續來追蹤這個部分麻煩你好謝謝\n\n34\n00:11:52,776 --> 00:11:53,144\n議員提出議案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2533\t6182\t最後一位了好謝謝昭葦有請院長有請院長\n10570\t31950\t羅委員好。好,院長好。院長上次拜訪我的時候啊,當時你有跟我提到天然氣啊,去碳燃金的這一項技術。是。那當時我想大家都很關心我們的社會啊,到底現在面對能源的危機,有什麼樣的因應措施。我想對這個天然氣啊,去碳燃金呢,我們有這樣子的一個混金發電,4幣。\n33792\t48147\t在過程當中有一些研究我想要就幾個問題跟你請教一下天然氣發電會不會造成空污天然氣發電的造成空污遠比這個煤要少很多沒有錯我們但是這個是比較問題但我現在問你就單純\n52182\t69229\t我們請教天然氣發電有沒有造成空污那它仍然是會排二氧化碳從廣義角度仍然是會有這個二氧化碳的排放但是排放已經很少那我們用去碳燃金就是希望說進一步再降低它的排碳\n70089\t71130\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n86318\t109204\t為什麼中研院會去研究這一項技術就是我們個人有認為天然氣在燃燒的過程有所謂的排碳的問題所以我們希望能夠達到好還要更好還要再追求完美所以中研院研究這樣的技術我們認同啊所以今天我們看到天然氣發電是會造成少數的空汙可以這樣子去形容對吧就是說它會排碳\n109884\t110185\t對,他本身的天然氣發電已經\n124804\t125024\t好,那今天問題又來啦。\n153453\t179680\t你們這個所謂的新的技術天然氣氣炭燃青吶這個混金的一個發電你們最後選在興達嘛也就是高雄那你跟我講說欸這個是你們是計劃性那最重要的是台電在合作執行面在台電那台電選擇了興達高雄廠那有沒有這個機會中研院去做高度的建議其實台中也可以做一個參考這個部分\n180461\t197682\t我想下階段當然有機會但是目前據我們了解是現實上的困難現實上有沒有困難我們再來側面了解一下剛剛我有聽到其他的委員也很關心那你有說到有沒有這樣的場域有沒有這樣子的空間我坦白跟你講怎麼可能會沒有\n198783\t215676\t中火作為世界前幾大火力發電台灣第一大火力發電現在正在做所謂的蒸汽的一個工程他當然可以把天然氣機組改成所謂的混金發電阿\n216457\t238562\t但是那個大型基礎我們現在基礎還沒有辦法到那個階段很抱歉我們希望示範基地台中也有這樣子的機會嘛再來把所謂的藍莓基礎拆除掉藍莓基礎拆除掉一定會有更大的空間來做混金發電嘛這是可以討論的這個都可以討論但是事實上中研院有沒有強力的建議我希望雖然我們因為我曾經許諾過\n239642\t265096\t不排除任何形式的來想辦法讓中央對台中好一點我也希望在這個場域上能夠建議你拜託你能夠跟台電來建議混金發電示範基地能夠選擇在台中這個部分您可以幫我們發聲嗎我想我們不只在台中不只在新大我們希望在全國各地都能夠做從小規模開始漸漸的擴散到我們持續關注這一項技術的發展也希望您能夠幫台中人說話好不好\n266156\t280772\t好謝謝那再來我想請問一下因為中央院算是總統府直屬的那在這幾個月當中我們看到賴清德總統上任至今有沒有跟你開會討論或者是探討未來性有沒有什麼研究計畫這個部分可以分享嗎\n281671\t309046\t主要是談能源的問題跟南部園區的發展能源有沒有任性社會這部分倒比較少都是能源為主能源跟南部園區的發展我希望就剛剛還是延伸剛剛的問題既然他有討論到能源是不是所謂的混金發電能夠建議他中火不乏是一個選項我想有這個機會從你的口中講出對台中人有利的話或許總統他也可能會採納這部分可以嗎\n311167\t332718\t愿长,请问您有听过翰林院吗?有。大概都知道了。我想早年比较常听到有些人说中研院就好像唐代的翰林院。所以研究院入众的一个指挥数就是唐代翰林院的一个象征。愿长,请问您知道翰林学士跟翰林供奉的差别吗?\n333157\t348013\t我不知道但是這個中央研究院被人家比喻成漢林院只是一個比喻這個我們沒有要救教這是網路上的一個探討我們沒有要做任何的批評我只是跟你說救教這樣子的一個前言\n348913\t367228\t那這部分我不瞭解好沒關係有機會網路上翻一翻漢林學士跟漢林供奉的一個差別我想我們要正視的是一些問題我們現在看到老師講中研院的一個社會科學的研究實際上是某些部分是有在退步的你有發現嗎\n368891\t394532\t社會科學研究我想經濟的空間是有但是我恐怕不見得說是那你聽聽看我說退步的地方在哪裡好不好當然我不會去否認某些人正在努力而是外部的一些因素也造成了這個社會科學的研究上造成一些斷層比如說台灣的學生願意在教育上投資自己的意願是越來越少\n395293\t406704\t好那再來台灣社會科學學生出國深造的我們看到比例也逐漸降低這都會影響到我們在社會科學研究產生一些斷層\n408330\t433175\t這部分事實上問題相當複雜因為台灣現在大力要發展社會科學特別在大學也發展社會科學的研究所那假如我們已經很少的學生我們又鼓勵他到國外去念書那我們收到什麼樣的學生就這兩件事情是互斥的所以您當然會看到說我們出國人少那可能是因為我們在國內希望也大力發展\n436796\t465386\t社會科學研究所的學程所以是這樣子的狀況當然我們仍然可以多鼓勵學生投入社會科學畢竟社會科學是非常重要的所以我們也推出了中央研究院人文社會科學精英獎學金博士生的精英獎學金一次給他五年的獎助金讓他沒有生活的憂慮能夠前兩年拿四萬後三年拿五萬\n471771\t489926\t當然我們不是說一昧的鼓勵我們這些學生一定要出國但是我想就像你說的雖然是互斥但是我們也不能夠排除出國深造他所學到的知識不一定我想這個部分你可以認同吧在台灣有台灣深造的一些好處在國外也有國外的好處\n490586\t507190\t閱讀：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n513672\t534751\t當時當每當國內外發生種種的與經濟直接或間接的相關議題在各類媒體和訊息管道都可以看到這兩個財團法人提出種種的分析那我想這兩個財團法人就像我之前有跟你講過的台灣綜合研究院以及財團法人中華經濟研究院那這兩個財團法人提出的種種分析跟看法\n535231\t545687\t而中央研究院幾乎沒有只會寫期刊文章當時你也有給我一些回應說會請經濟所可以思考朝這個方向來做稍微的調整請問後續呢請經濟所副總長\n549080\t576391\t委員好經濟所現在曾經所說我們大部分同仁從事的是基礎科學的經濟研究但是慢慢的也在像我們每半年有一次的這個經濟預測它的這個運作也慢慢擴充了包括我們已經開始從事一個臺灣消費者預期跟政治反應調查另外也有越來越多同仁開始從事政策研究包括勞工改革勞保的改革\n578152\t593127\t包括這個這個長照健保的部分所以我們也未來也在12月要開一個研討會那有改進都好但是我想國際上跟國內有許多重要的議題比如川普2.0的一個局勢發展\n594048\t594348\t院長您覺得呢?\n616567\t642321\t我覺得朝這方向努力是對的因為我們的三大這個院警目標之中其中是是善盡社會關鍵責任就是這一項我想我們投入這麼多筆的預算在中研院符合社會的期待當然你們有很多的重擔跟眾所的期盼責任重大但是我們都希望中研院可以更好符合社會的一個期待那我想另外再請問一下風機研究這個部分\n643281\t667139\t風機研究我們都看到風能發電機是嗎?風機對,風機研究我們沒有做這方面的研究有啦在這就一位同仁2016年你上任的時候2018年有做這樣中央醫院環境變遷中心有進行一項研究去了解風機低頻噪音對心臟的不利影響不好意思我標題講的比較短那你等我敘述內容嘛好不好\n667819\t683268\t好那都有做這個民眾啊居民經過兩年的監測紀錄長期接收低頻噪音後居民心律的變異顯著增加心律變異可能會引起頭痛難以集中注意力\n683948\t710722\t疫怒、疲勞、頭暈相關的研究指出。好那最後我要想的是你們有這樣的研究那最後我預計大概是10月左右才出來的這份研究那政府你們有沒有去建議他們會不會採納他後續有沒有什麼一樣的一個具體的作為我們希望會後能夠提供給我你們的研究很好但政府有沒有採納政府有沒有實際去做這些事情我們要後續來追蹤這個部分麻煩你好謝謝\n712776\t713144\t議員提出議案。\n","txt":"最後一位了好謝謝昭葦有請院長有請院長\n羅委員好。好,院長好。院長上次拜訪我的時候啊,當時你有跟我提到天然氣啊,去碳燃金的這一項技術。是。那當時我想大家都很關心我們的社會啊,到底現在面對能源的危機,有什麼樣的因應措施。我想對這個天然氣啊,去碳燃金呢,我們有這樣子的一個混金發電,4幣。\n在過程當中有一些研究我想要就幾個問題跟你請教一下天然氣發電會不會造成空污天然氣發電的造成空污遠比這個煤要少很多沒有錯我們但是這個是比較問題但我現在問你就單純\n我們請教天然氣發電有沒有造成空污那它仍然是會排二氧化碳從廣義角度仍然是會有這個二氧化碳的排放但是排放已經很少那我們用去碳燃金就是希望說進一步再降低它的排碳\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n為什麼中研院會去研究這一項技術就是我們個人有認為天然氣在燃燒的過程有所謂的排碳的問題所以我們希望能夠達到好還要更好還要再追求完美所以中研院研究這樣的技術我們認同啊所以今天我們看到天然氣發電是會造成少數的空汙可以這樣子去形容對吧就是說它會排碳\n對,他本身的天然氣發電已經\n好,那今天問題又來啦。\n你們這個所謂的新的技術天然氣氣炭燃青吶這個混金的一個發電你們最後選在興達嘛也就是高雄那你跟我講說欸這個是你們是計劃性那最重要的是台電在合作執行面在台電那台電選擇了興達高雄廠那有沒有這個機會中研院去做高度的建議其實台中也可以做一個參考這個部分\n我想下階段當然有機會但是目前據我們了解是現實上的困難現實上有沒有困難我們再來側面了解一下剛剛我有聽到其他的委員也很關心那你有說到有沒有這樣的場域有沒有這樣子的空間我坦白跟你講怎麼可能會沒有\n中火作為世界前幾大火力發電台灣第一大火力發電現在正在做所謂的蒸汽的一個工程他當然可以把天然氣機組改成所謂的混金發電阿\n但是那個大型基礎我們現在基礎還沒有辦法到那個階段很抱歉我們希望示範基地台中也有這樣子的機會嘛再來把所謂的藍莓基礎拆除掉藍莓基礎拆除掉一定會有更大的空間來做混金發電嘛這是可以討論的這個都可以討論但是事實上中研院有沒有強力的建議我希望雖然我們因為我曾經許諾過\n不排除任何形式的來想辦法讓中央對台中好一點我也希望在這個場域上能夠建議你拜託你能夠跟台電來建議混金發電示範基地能夠選擇在台中這個部分您可以幫我們發聲嗎我想我們不只在台中不只在新大我們希望在全國各地都能夠做從小規模開始漸漸的擴散到我們持續關注這一項技術的發展也希望您能夠幫台中人說話好不好\n好謝謝那再來我想請問一下因為中央院算是總統府直屬的那在這幾個月當中我們看到賴清德總統上任至今有沒有跟你開會討論或者是探討未來性有沒有什麼研究計畫這個部分可以分享嗎\n主要是談能源的問題跟南部園區的發展能源有沒有任性社會這部分倒比較少都是能源為主能源跟南部園區的發展我希望就剛剛還是延伸剛剛的問題既然他有討論到能源是不是所謂的混金發電能夠建議他中火不乏是一個選項我想有這個機會從你的口中講出對台中人有利的話或許總統他也可能會採納這部分可以嗎\n愿长,请问您有听过翰林院吗?有。大概都知道了。我想早年比较常听到有些人说中研院就好像唐代的翰林院。所以研究院入众的一个指挥数就是唐代翰林院的一个象征。愿长,请问您知道翰林学士跟翰林供奉的差别吗?\n我不知道但是這個中央研究院被人家比喻成漢林院只是一個比喻這個我們沒有要救教這是網路上的一個探討我們沒有要做任何的批評我只是跟你說救教這樣子的一個前言\n那這部分我不瞭解好沒關係有機會網路上翻一翻漢林學士跟漢林供奉的一個差別我想我們要正視的是一些問題我們現在看到老師講中研院的一個社會科學的研究實際上是某些部分是有在退步的你有發現嗎\n社會科學研究我想經濟的空間是有但是我恐怕不見得說是那你聽聽看我說退步的地方在哪裡好不好當然我不會去否認某些人正在努力而是外部的一些因素也造成了這個社會科學的研究上造成一些斷層比如說台灣的學生願意在教育上投資自己的意願是越來越少\n好那再來台灣社會科學學生出國深造的我們看到比例也逐漸降低這都會影響到我們在社會科學研究產生一些斷層\n這部分事實上問題相當複雜因為台灣現在大力要發展社會科學特別在大學也發展社會科學的研究所那假如我們已經很少的學生我們又鼓勵他到國外去念書那我們收到什麼樣的學生就這兩件事情是互斥的所以您當然會看到說我們出國人少那可能是因為我們在國內希望也大力發展\n社會科學研究所的學程所以是這樣子的狀況當然我們仍然可以多鼓勵學生投入社會科學畢竟社會科學是非常重要的所以我們也推出了中央研究院人文社會科學精英獎學金博士生的精英獎學金一次給他五年的獎助金讓他沒有生活的憂慮能夠前兩年拿四萬後三年拿五萬\n當然我們不是說一昧的鼓勵我們這些學生一定要出國但是我想就像你說的雖然是互斥但是我們也不能夠排除出國深造他所學到的知識不一定我想這個部分你可以認同吧在台灣有台灣深造的一些好處在國外也有國外的好處\n閱讀：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n當時當每當國內外發生種種的與經濟直接或間接的相關議題在各類媒體和訊息管道都可以看到這兩個財團法人提出種種的分析那我想這兩個財團法人就像我之前有跟你講過的台灣綜合研究院以及財團法人中華經濟研究院那這兩個財團法人提出的種種分析跟看法\n而中央研究院幾乎沒有只會寫期刊文章當時你也有給我一些回應說會請經濟所可以思考朝這個方向來做稍微的調整請問後續呢請經濟所副總長\n委員好經濟所現在曾經所說我們大部分同仁從事的是基礎科學的經濟研究但是慢慢的也在像我們每半年有一次的這個經濟預測它的這個運作也慢慢擴充了包括我們已經開始從事一個臺灣消費者預期跟政治反應調查另外也有越來越多同仁開始從事政策研究包括勞工改革勞保的改革\n包括這個這個長照健保的部分所以我們也未來也在12月要開一個研討會那有改進都好但是我想國際上跟國內有許多重要的議題比如川普2.0的一個局勢發展\n院長您覺得呢?\n我覺得朝這方向努力是對的因為我們的三大這個院警目標之中其中是是善盡社會關鍵責任就是這一項我想我們投入這麼多筆的預算在中研院符合社會的期待當然你們有很多的重擔跟眾所的期盼責任重大但是我們都希望中研院可以更好符合社會的一個期待那我想另外再請問一下風機研究這個部分\n風機研究我們都看到風能發電機是嗎?風機對,風機研究我們沒有做這方面的研究有啦在這就一位同仁2016年你上任的時候2018年有做這樣中央醫院環境變遷中心有進行一項研究去了解風機低頻噪音對心臟的不利影響不好意思我標題講的比較短那你等我敘述內容嘛好不好\n好那都有做這個民眾啊居民經過兩年的監測紀錄長期接收低頻噪音後居民心律的變異顯著增加心律變異可能會引起頭痛難以集中注意力\n疫怒、疲勞、頭暈相關的研究指出。好那最後我要想的是你們有這樣的研究那最後我預計大概是10月左右才出來的這份研究那政府你們有沒有去建議他們會不會採納他後續有沒有什麼一樣的一個具體的作為我們希望會後能夠提供給我你們的研究很好但政府有沒有採納政府有沒有實際去做這些事情我們要後續來追蹤這個部分麻煩你好謝謝\n議員提出議案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.533 --> 00:06.182\n最後一位了好謝謝昭葦有請院長有請院長\n\n00:10.570 --> 00:31.950\n羅委員好。好,院長好。院長上次拜訪我的時候啊,當時你有跟我提到天然氣啊,去碳燃金的這一項技術。是。那當時我想大家都很關心我們的社會啊,到底現在面對能源的危機,有什麼樣的因應措施。我想對這個天然氣啊,去碳燃金呢,我們有這樣子的一個混金發電,4幣。\n\n00:33.792 --> 00:48.147\n在過程當中有一些研究我想要就幾個問題跟你請教一下天然氣發電會不會造成空污天然氣發電的造成空污遠比這個煤要少很多沒有錯我們但是這個是比較問題但我現在問你就單純\n\n00:52.182 --> 01:09.229\n我們請教天然氣發電有沒有造成空污那它仍然是會排二氧化碳從廣義角度仍然是會有這個二氧化碳的排放但是排放已經很少那我們用去碳燃金就是希望說進一步再降低它的排碳\n\n01:10.089 --> 01:11.130\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n01:26.318 --> 01:49.204\n為什麼中研院會去研究這一項技術就是我們個人有認為天然氣在燃燒的過程有所謂的排碳的問題所以我們希望能夠達到好還要更好還要再追求完美所以中研院研究這樣的技術我們認同啊所以今天我們看到天然氣發電是會造成少數的空汙可以這樣子去形容對吧就是說它會排碳\n\n01:49.884 --> 01:50.185\n對,他本身的天然氣發電已經\n\n02:04.804 --> 02:05.024\n好,那今天問題又來啦。\n\n02:33.453 --> 02:59.680\n你們這個所謂的新的技術天然氣氣炭燃青吶這個混金的一個發電你們最後選在興達嘛也就是高雄那你跟我講說欸這個是你們是計劃性那最重要的是台電在合作執行面在台電那台電選擇了興達高雄廠那有沒有這個機會中研院去做高度的建議其實台中也可以做一個參考這個部分\n\n03:00.461 --> 03:17.682\n我想下階段當然有機會但是目前據我們了解是現實上的困難現實上有沒有困難我們再來側面了解一下剛剛我有聽到其他的委員也很關心那你有說到有沒有這樣的場域有沒有這樣子的空間我坦白跟你講怎麼可能會沒有\n\n03:18.783 --> 03:35.676\n中火作為世界前幾大火力發電台灣第一大火力發電現在正在做所謂的蒸汽的一個工程他當然可以把天然氣機組改成所謂的混金發電阿\n\n03:36.457 --> 03:58.562\n但是那個大型基礎我們現在基礎還沒有辦法到那個階段很抱歉我們希望示範基地台中也有這樣子的機會嘛再來把所謂的藍莓基礎拆除掉藍莓基礎拆除掉一定會有更大的空間來做混金發電嘛這是可以討論的這個都可以討論但是事實上中研院有沒有強力的建議我希望雖然我們因為我曾經許諾過\n\n03:59.642 --> 04:25.096\n不排除任何形式的來想辦法讓中央對台中好一點我也希望在這個場域上能夠建議你拜託你能夠跟台電來建議混金發電示範基地能夠選擇在台中這個部分您可以幫我們發聲嗎我想我們不只在台中不只在新大我們希望在全國各地都能夠做從小規模開始漸漸的擴散到我們持續關注這一項技術的發展也希望您能夠幫台中人說話好不好\n\n04:26.156 --> 04:40.772\n好謝謝那再來我想請問一下因為中央院算是總統府直屬的那在這幾個月當中我們看到賴清德總統上任至今有沒有跟你開會討論或者是探討未來性有沒有什麼研究計畫這個部分可以分享嗎\n\n04:41.671 --> 05:09.046\n主要是談能源的問題跟南部園區的發展能源有沒有任性社會這部分倒比較少都是能源為主能源跟南部園區的發展我希望就剛剛還是延伸剛剛的問題既然他有討論到能源是不是所謂的混金發電能夠建議他中火不乏是一個選項我想有這個機會從你的口中講出對台中人有利的話或許總統他也可能會採納這部分可以嗎\n\n05:11.167 --> 05:32.718\n愿长,请问您有听过翰林院吗?有。大概都知道了。我想早年比较常听到有些人说中研院就好像唐代的翰林院。所以研究院入众的一个指挥数就是唐代翰林院的一个象征。愿长,请问您知道翰林学士跟翰林供奉的差别吗?\n\n05:33.157 --> 05:48.013\n我不知道但是這個中央研究院被人家比喻成漢林院只是一個比喻這個我們沒有要救教這是網路上的一個探討我們沒有要做任何的批評我只是跟你說救教這樣子的一個前言\n\n05:48.913 --> 06:07.228\n那這部分我不瞭解好沒關係有機會網路上翻一翻漢林學士跟漢林供奉的一個差別我想我們要正視的是一些問題我們現在看到老師講中研院的一個社會科學的研究實際上是某些部分是有在退步的你有發現嗎\n\n06:08.891 --> 06:34.532\n社會科學研究我想經濟的空間是有但是我恐怕不見得說是那你聽聽看我說退步的地方在哪裡好不好當然我不會去否認某些人正在努力而是外部的一些因素也造成了這個社會科學的研究上造成一些斷層比如說台灣的學生願意在教育上投資自己的意願是越來越少\n\n06:35.293 --> 06:46.704\n好那再來台灣社會科學學生出國深造的我們看到比例也逐漸降低這都會影響到我們在社會科學研究產生一些斷層\n\n06:48.330 --> 07:13.175\n這部分事實上問題相當複雜因為台灣現在大力要發展社會科學特別在大學也發展社會科學的研究所那假如我們已經很少的學生我們又鼓勵他到國外去念書那我們收到什麼樣的學生就這兩件事情是互斥的所以您當然會看到說我們出國人少那可能是因為我們在國內希望也大力發展\n\n07:16.796 --> 07:45.386\n社會科學研究所的學程所以是這樣子的狀況當然我們仍然可以多鼓勵學生投入社會科學畢竟社會科學是非常重要的所以我們也推出了中央研究院人文社會科學精英獎學金博士生的精英獎學金一次給他五年的獎助金讓他沒有生活的憂慮能夠前兩年拿四萬後三年拿五萬\n\n07:51.771 --> 08:09.926\n當然我們不是說一昧的鼓勵我們這些學生一定要出國但是我想就像你說的雖然是互斥但是我們也不能夠排除出國深造他所學到的知識不一定我想這個部分你可以認同吧在台灣有台灣深造的一些好處在國外也有國外的好處\n\n08:10.586 --> 08:27.190\n閱讀：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n\n08:33.672 --> 08:54.751\n當時當每當國內外發生種種的與經濟直接或間接的相關議題在各類媒體和訊息管道都可以看到這兩個財團法人提出種種的分析那我想這兩個財團法人就像我之前有跟你講過的台灣綜合研究院以及財團法人中華經濟研究院那這兩個財團法人提出的種種分析跟看法\n\n08:55.231 --> 09:05.687\n而中央研究院幾乎沒有只會寫期刊文章當時你也有給我一些回應說會請經濟所可以思考朝這個方向來做稍微的調整請問後續呢請經濟所副總長\n\n09:09.080 --> 09:36.391\n委員好經濟所現在曾經所說我們大部分同仁從事的是基礎科學的經濟研究但是慢慢的也在像我們每半年有一次的這個經濟預測它的這個運作也慢慢擴充了包括我們已經開始從事一個臺灣消費者預期跟政治反應調查另外也有越來越多同仁開始從事政策研究包括勞工改革勞保的改革\n\n09:38.152 --> 09:53.127\n包括這個這個長照健保的部分所以我們也未來也在12月要開一個研討會那有改進都好但是我想國際上跟國內有許多重要的議題比如川普2.0的一個局勢發展\n\n09:54.048 --> 09:54.348\n院長您覺得呢?\n\n10:16.567 --> 10:42.321\n我覺得朝這方向努力是對的因為我們的三大這個院警目標之中其中是是善盡社會關鍵責任就是這一項我想我們投入這麼多筆的預算在中研院符合社會的期待當然你們有很多的重擔跟眾所的期盼責任重大但是我們都希望中研院可以更好符合社會的一個期待那我想另外再請問一下風機研究這個部分\n\n10:43.281 --> 11:07.139\n風機研究我們都看到風能發電機是嗎?風機對,風機研究我們沒有做這方面的研究有啦在這就一位同仁2016年你上任的時候2018年有做這樣中央醫院環境變遷中心有進行一項研究去了解風機低頻噪音對心臟的不利影響不好意思我標題講的比較短那你等我敘述內容嘛好不好\n\n11:07.819 --> 11:23.268\n好那都有做這個民眾啊居民經過兩年的監測紀錄長期接收低頻噪音後居民心律的變異顯著增加心律變異可能會引起頭痛難以集中注意力\n\n11:23.948 --> 11:50.722\n疫怒、疲勞、頭暈相關的研究指出。好那最後我要想的是你們有這樣的研究那最後我預計大概是10月左右才出來的這份研究那政府你們有沒有去建議他們會不會採納他後續有沒有什麼一樣的一個具體的作為我們希望會後能夠提供給我你們的研究很好但政府有沒有採納政府有沒有實際去做這些事情我們要後續來追蹤這個部分麻煩你好謝謝\n\n11:52.776 --> 11:53.144\n議員提出議案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.533,"end":6.182,"text":"最後一位了好謝謝昭葦有請院長有請院長"},{"start":10.57,"end":31.95,"text":"羅委員好。好,院長好。院長上次拜訪我的時候啊,當時你有跟我提到天然氣啊,去碳燃金的這一項技術。是。那當時我想大家都很關心我們的社會啊,到底現在面對能源的危機,有什麼樣的因應措施。我想對這個天然氣啊,去碳燃金呢,我們有這樣子的一個混金發電,4幣。"},{"start":33.792,"end":48.147,"text":"在過程當中有一些研究我想要就幾個問題跟你請教一下天然氣發電會不會造成空污天然氣發電的造成空污遠比這個煤要少很多沒有錯我們但是這個是比較問題但我現在問你就單純"},{"start":52.182,"end":69.229,"text":"我們請教天然氣發電有沒有造成空污那它仍然是會排二氧化碳從廣義角度仍然是會有這個二氧化碳的排放但是排放已經很少那我們用去碳燃金就是希望說進一步再降低它的排碳"},{"start":70.089,"end":71.13,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":86.318,"end":109.204,"text":"為什麼中研院會去研究這一項技術就是我們個人有認為天然氣在燃燒的過程有所謂的排碳的問題所以我們希望能夠達到好還要更好還要再追求完美所以中研院研究這樣的技術我們認同啊所以今天我們看到天然氣發電是會造成少數的空汙可以這樣子去形容對吧就是說它會排碳"},{"start":109.884,"end":110.185,"text":"對,他本身的天然氣發電已經"},{"start":124.804,"end":125.024,"text":"好,那今天問題又來啦。"},{"start":153.453,"end":179.68,"text":"你們這個所謂的新的技術天然氣氣炭燃青吶這個混金的一個發電你們最後選在興達嘛也就是高雄那你跟我講說欸這個是你們是計劃性那最重要的是台電在合作執行面在台電那台電選擇了興達高雄廠那有沒有這個機會中研院去做高度的建議其實台中也可以做一個參考這個部分"},{"start":180.461,"end":197.682,"text":"我想下階段當然有機會但是目前據我們了解是現實上的困難現實上有沒有困難我們再來側面了解一下剛剛我有聽到其他的委員也很關心那你有說到有沒有這樣的場域有沒有這樣子的空間我坦白跟你講怎麼可能會沒有"},{"start":198.783,"end":215.676,"text":"中火作為世界前幾大火力發電台灣第一大火力發電現在正在做所謂的蒸汽的一個工程他當然可以把天然氣機組改成所謂的混金發電阿"},{"start":216.457,"end":238.562,"text":"但是那個大型基礎我們現在基礎還沒有辦法到那個階段很抱歉我們希望示範基地台中也有這樣子的機會嘛再來把所謂的藍莓基礎拆除掉藍莓基礎拆除掉一定會有更大的空間來做混金發電嘛這是可以討論的這個都可以討論但是事實上中研院有沒有強力的建議我希望雖然我們因為我曾經許諾過"},{"start":239.642,"end":265.096,"text":"不排除任何形式的來想辦法讓中央對台中好一點我也希望在這個場域上能夠建議你拜託你能夠跟台電來建議混金發電示範基地能夠選擇在台中這個部分您可以幫我們發聲嗎我想我們不只在台中不只在新大我們希望在全國各地都能夠做從小規模開始漸漸的擴散到我們持續關注這一項技術的發展也希望您能夠幫台中人說話好不好"},{"start":266.156,"end":280.772,"text":"好謝謝那再來我想請問一下因為中央院算是總統府直屬的那在這幾個月當中我們看到賴清德總統上任至今有沒有跟你開會討論或者是探討未來性有沒有什麼研究計畫這個部分可以分享嗎"},{"start":281.671,"end":309.046,"text":"主要是談能源的問題跟南部園區的發展能源有沒有任性社會這部分倒比較少都是能源為主能源跟南部園區的發展我希望就剛剛還是延伸剛剛的問題既然他有討論到能源是不是所謂的混金發電能夠建議他中火不乏是一個選項我想有這個機會從你的口中講出對台中人有利的話或許總統他也可能會採納這部分可以嗎"},{"start":311.167,"end":332.718,"text":"愿长,请问您有听过翰林院吗?有。大概都知道了。我想早年比较常听到有些人说中研院就好像唐代的翰林院。所以研究院入众的一个指挥数就是唐代翰林院的一个象征。愿长,请问您知道翰林学士跟翰林供奉的差别吗?"},{"start":333.157,"end":348.013,"text":"我不知道但是這個中央研究院被人家比喻成漢林院只是一個比喻這個我們沒有要救教這是網路上的一個探討我們沒有要做任何的批評我只是跟你說救教這樣子的一個前言"},{"start":348.913,"end":367.228,"text":"那這部分我不瞭解好沒關係有機會網路上翻一翻漢林學士跟漢林供奉的一個差別我想我們要正視的是一些問題我們現在看到老師講中研院的一個社會科學的研究實際上是某些部分是有在退步的你有發現嗎"},{"start":368.891,"end":394.532,"text":"社會科學研究我想經濟的空間是有但是我恐怕不見得說是那你聽聽看我說退步的地方在哪裡好不好當然我不會去否認某些人正在努力而是外部的一些因素也造成了這個社會科學的研究上造成一些斷層比如說台灣的學生願意在教育上投資自己的意願是越來越少"},{"start":395.293,"end":406.704,"text":"好那再來台灣社會科學學生出國深造的我們看到比例也逐漸降低這都會影響到我們在社會科學研究產生一些斷層"},{"start":408.33,"end":433.175,"text":"這部分事實上問題相當複雜因為台灣現在大力要發展社會科學特別在大學也發展社會科學的研究所那假如我們已經很少的學生我們又鼓勵他到國外去念書那我們收到什麼樣的學生就這兩件事情是互斥的所以您當然會看到說我們出國人少那可能是因為我們在國內希望也大力發展"},{"start":436.796,"end":465.386,"text":"社會科學研究所的學程所以是這樣子的狀況當然我們仍然可以多鼓勵學生投入社會科學畢竟社會科學是非常重要的所以我們也推出了中央研究院人文社會科學精英獎學金博士生的精英獎學金一次給他五年的獎助金讓他沒有生活的憂慮能夠前兩年拿四萬後三年拿五萬"},{"start":471.771,"end":489.926,"text":"當然我們不是說一昧的鼓勵我們這些學生一定要出國但是我想就像你說的雖然是互斥但是我們也不能夠排除出國深造他所學到的知識不一定我想這個部分你可以認同吧在台灣有台灣深造的一些好處在國外也有國外的好處"},{"start":490.586,"end":507.19,"text":"閱讀：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會"},{"start":513.672,"end":534.751,"text":"當時當每當國內外發生種種的與經濟直接或間接的相關議題在各類媒體和訊息管道都可以看到這兩個財團法人提出種種的分析那我想這兩個財團法人就像我之前有跟你講過的台灣綜合研究院以及財團法人中華經濟研究院那這兩個財團法人提出的種種分析跟看法"},{"start":535.231,"end":545.687,"text":"而中央研究院幾乎沒有只會寫期刊文章當時你也有給我一些回應說會請經濟所可以思考朝這個方向來做稍微的調整請問後續呢請經濟所副總長"},{"start":549.08,"end":576.391,"text":"委員好經濟所現在曾經所說我們大部分同仁從事的是基礎科學的經濟研究但是慢慢的也在像我們每半年有一次的這個經濟預測它的這個運作也慢慢擴充了包括我們已經開始從事一個臺灣消費者預期跟政治反應調查另外也有越來越多同仁開始從事政策研究包括勞工改革勞保的改革"},{"start":578.152,"end":593.127,"text":"包括這個這個長照健保的部分所以我們也未來也在12月要開一個研討會那有改進都好但是我想國際上跟國內有許多重要的議題比如川普2.0的一個局勢發展"},{"start":594.048,"end":594.348,"text":"院長您覺得呢?"},{"start":616.567,"end":642.321,"text":"我覺得朝這方向努力是對的因為我們的三大這個院警目標之中其中是是善盡社會關鍵責任就是這一項我想我們投入這麼多筆的預算在中研院符合社會的期待當然你們有很多的重擔跟眾所的期盼責任重大但是我們都希望中研院可以更好符合社會的一個期待那我想另外再請問一下風機研究這個部分"},{"start":643.281,"end":667.139,"text":"風機研究我們都看到風能發電機是嗎?風機對,風機研究我們沒有做這方面的研究有啦在這就一位同仁2016年你上任的時候2018年有做這樣中央醫院環境變遷中心有進行一項研究去了解風機低頻噪音對心臟的不利影響不好意思我標題講的比較短那你等我敘述內容嘛好不好"},{"start":667.819,"end":683.268,"text":"好那都有做這個民眾啊居民經過兩年的監測紀錄長期接收低頻噪音後居民心律的變異顯著增加心律變異可能會引起頭痛難以集中注意力"},{"start":683.948,"end":710.722,"text":"疫怒、疲勞、頭暈相關的研究指出。好那最後我要想的是你們有這樣的研究那最後我預計大概是10月左右才出來的這份研究那政府你們有沒有去建議他們會不會採納他後續有沒有什麼一樣的一個具體的作為我們希望會後能夠提供給我你們的研究很好但政府有沒有採納政府有沒有實際去做這些事情我們要後續來追蹤這個部分麻煩你好謝謝"},{"start":712.776,"end":713.144,"text":"議員提出議案。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":933,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（12時22分）謝謝召委，有請院長。"],["主席：有請院長。"],["廖院長俊智：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長好。院長上次拜訪我的時候，當時你也有跟我提到天然氣去碳燃氫的這一項技術，當時大家都很關心我們社會現在面對能源危機到底有什麼因應措施。對於天然氣去碳燃氫混氫發電技術，在過程當中勢必會有一些研究，所以我想要就幾個問題跟你請教，天然氣發電會不會造成空污？"],["廖院長俊智：天然氣發電造成的空污遠比煤要少很多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒有錯，但是這個是比較問題，但我現在要問的是，就單純天然氣發電有沒有造成空污？"],["廖院長俊智：它仍然是會排二氧化碳，從廣義角度仍然是會有二氧化碳的排放，但是排放已經很少。我們用去碳燃氫就是希望進一步再降低它的排碳，我們先把碳拿出來，所以它到時候就不燒碳了，所謂的去碳燃氫就是這個意思。雖然剛開始是天然氣，但是真正燃燒的是氫。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我懂、我懂，為什麼中研院會去研究這一項技術？我們都認為天然氣在燃燒過程有所謂的排碳問題，我們希望能夠達到好還要更好，還要再追求完美，所以我們認同中研院研究這樣的技術。但是我們看到天然氣發電還是會造成少數的空污，可以這樣子形容，對吧？"],["廖院長俊智：就是它會排碳。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有排碳就有空污，只是你講得比較隱晦一點，算是比較少一點的空污。"],["廖院長俊智：而且它的空污比較容易控制。"],["羅委員廷瑋：空污比較容易控制，所以我們才要所謂的去碳燃氫，對不對？"],["廖院長俊智：天然氣發電本身已經……"],["羅委員廷瑋：今天中研院院長也可以證實我們的說法，為什麼在爭取所謂的增氣減煤的過程，我們擔憂的是增氣不減煤會層層疊加上去，會讓臺中市尤其在中火的影響之下，對臺中人的健康會有所影響。今天我沒有要你幫我們背書，我們只是希望側面瞭解到底，所謂的天然氣會不會造成排碳、造成空污？今天問題又來了，所謂的新技術天然氣去碳燃氫混氫發電，你們最後選在高雄興達廠，你跟我講你們是計畫性，最重要的是台電在合作，執行面在台電，台電選擇了高雄興達廠，中研院有沒有機會去做高度的建議，其實臺中也可以作為一個參考？"],["廖院長俊智：我想下階段當然有機會，但是目前據我們瞭解是現實上的困難，至於現實上有哪些……"],["羅委員廷瑋：現實上有沒有困難，我們再來側面瞭解一下，剛剛我有聽到其他的委員也很關心，你提到有沒有這樣的場域？有沒有這樣的空間？我坦白跟你講，怎麼可能沒有！中火作為世界前幾大火力發電，也是臺灣第一大火力發電，現在正在做所謂的增氣工程，它當然可以把天然氣機組改成混氫發電。"],["廖院長俊智：但那個是大型機組，我們現在的技術還沒有辦法到那個階段，很抱歉！"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是我們希望臺中也有成為示範基地這樣子的機會。再來，把所謂的燃煤機組拆除掉，燃煤機組拆除掉一定會有更大的空間來做混氫發電。"],["廖院長俊智：這是可以討論的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這個都可以討論。但是，事實上，中研院有沒有強力的建議？雖然我曾經許諾過不排除任何形式來想辦法，讓中央對臺中好一點，我也希望在這個場域上能夠建議你、拜託你能夠跟台電建議，混氫發電示範基地能夠選擇在臺中，這個部分你可以幫我們發聲嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：我想我們不只在臺中，不只在興達，我們希望在全國各地都能夠做，從小規模開始漸漸擴散到……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們持續關注這一項技術的發展，也希望你能夠幫臺中人說話，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝。再來，我想請問一下，因為中研院算是總統府直屬的，在這幾個月當中，賴清德總統上任至今有沒有跟你開會討論或探討未來性有沒有什麼研究計畫，這個部分可以分享嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：主要是談能源的問題，跟南部院區的發展。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有沒有韌性社會？"],["廖院長俊智：這部分倒比較少。"],["羅委員廷瑋：都是能源為主？"],["廖院長俊智：能源跟南部院區的發展。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我還是延伸剛剛的問題，既然他有討論到能源，你是不是能夠建議他，關於所謂的混氫發電，中火不乏是一個選項，我想有這個機會從你的口中講出對臺中人有利的話，或許總統也可能會採納，這個部分可以嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：可以。"],["羅委員廷瑋：另外，請問院長，你有聽過翰林院嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：大概都知道啦！早年比較常聽到有些人說中研院就好像唐代的翰林院，所以研究院路種的紫薇就是唐代翰林院的象徵。院長，請問你知道翰林學士與翰林供奉的差別嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：我不知道，但是中研院被人家比喻成翰林院只是一個比喻而已。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒關係，我們沒有要就教，這是網路上的一個探討，我們沒有要做任何的批評，我只是跟你就教這樣子的一個前言。"],["廖院長俊智：這個部分我不瞭解。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒關係，有機會網路上翻一翻翰林學士與翰林供奉的差別，我想我們要正視的是一些問題。我們現在看到中研院的社會科學研究，實際上某些部分是有在退步的，你有發現嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：我想精進的空間是有，但是恐怕不見得是退步。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你聽聽看我說退步的地方在哪裡，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：好，請說。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然，我不會去否認某些人正在努力，而是外部的一些因素也造成了社會科學研究上的一些斷層。比如臺灣的學生願意在教育上投資自己的意願越來越少；再來，臺灣社會科學學生出國深造的比例，我們也看到逐漸降低，這都會影響我們在社會科學研究產生一些斷層。"],["廖院長俊智：事實上，這部分的問題相當複雜，因為臺灣現在大力要發展社會科學，特別在大學也發展社會科學研究所，假如我們已經很少學生，我們又鼓勵他到國外去念書，我們會收到什麼樣的學生，這兩件事情是互斥的，您當然也會看到我們出國的人少，那可能是因為我們希望在國內大力發展社會科學研究所的學程，所以是這樣子的狀況。當然我們仍然可以多鼓勵學生投入社會科學，因為畢竟社會科學是非常重要的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對。"],["廖院長俊智：所以我們也推出了中研院人文社會科學博士生的菁英獎學金，一次給他5年的獎助金，讓他沒有生活的憂慮，在前兩年拿4萬，在後三年拿5萬，我們透過這樣子的方案來獎助國內的人文社會科學。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然我們不是說一昧的鼓勵這些學生一定要出國，但是我想就像你說的，雖然是互斥，但是我們也不能夠排除出國深造所學到的知識不一定……"],["廖院長俊智：是，沒錯，同意。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想這個部分你可以認同嘛！"],["廖院長俊智：對，我非常同意。"],["羅委員廷瑋：在臺灣深造有一些好處，在國外深造也有它的好處，那我們當然對整體學生願意投資自己的機率越來越低的這個部分也要去研究，因為在社會科學的研究有這樣的一個斷層，可能都是由於一些多方的原因所造成。本席想另外再請教一個問題，院長，在3月20日第1會期的業務報告中，本席有提及要建議中研院改制回民間單位，以符合社會期待。因為每當國內外發生種種與經濟直接或間接相關的議題，在各類媒體和訊息管道都可以看到台灣綜合研究院以及財團法人中華經濟研究院這兩個財團法人提出種種的分析，就像我之前跟你講過的，這兩個財團法人會提出種種分析跟看法，而中研院的經濟所幾乎沒有，只會寫期刊文章。當時你也有給我一些回應，你說會請經濟所可以思考朝這個方向來做稍微的調整，請問後續呢？"],["廖院長俊智：我們請經濟所副所長說明。"],["楊副所長淑珺：委員好。經濟所現在誠如您所說的，我們大部分同仁從事的是基礎科學的經濟研究，但是像我們每半年有一次的經濟預測，它的運作也慢慢擴充了，包括我們已經開始從事一個臺灣消費者預期跟政策反應調查，另外也有越來越多同仁開始從事政策研究，包括勞保的改革，包括長照、健保的部分，我們未來在12月也要開一個研討會。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，只要有改進都好。我想在國際上跟國內有許多重要的議題，比如川普2.0的局勢發展、廢死違憲的議題，當然不只經濟所，中研院有政治所、歐美所等各種研究所，有許多的研究人員，但是都比較少看到各個領域的研究人員出來好好的說明其分析、建議並提供對策。社會大眾真的希望中研院這些研究人員都可以走入社會中，希望各個研究所可以朝這個方向來努力，院長，您覺得呢？"],["廖院長俊智：我覺得朝這個方向努力是對的，因為在我們的三大願景目標之中，其中有一個是善盡社會關鍵責任，就是這一項。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是，我想我們投入這麼多筆的預算在中研院，應該要符合社會的期待，當然你們有很多的重擔，而且是眾所期盼，責任重大，所以我們都希望中研院可以更好，以符合社會的期待。"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想另外再請問一下風機研究這個部分，我們都看到……"],["廖院長俊智：委員是不是說風能發電機？"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，風機研究。"],["廖院長俊智：我們沒有做這方面的研究。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有啦！"],["廖院長俊智：大概就只有一位同仁。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你是2016年上任，在2018年中研院環境變遷中心有進行一項研究去了解風機低頻噪音對心臟的不利影響，不好意思，我這個標題講得比較短，你等我敘述內容好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：居民經過兩年的監測紀錄，發現長期接收低頻噪音後居民心律的變異顯著增加。心律變異可能會引起頭痛、難以集中注意力、易怒、疲勞、頭暈，這是這個研究所指出的。好，最後我要講的是，你們有這樣的研究，大概是10月左右才出來的這份研究，那你們有沒有去建議政府？他們會不會採納？在後續有沒有什麼樣的具體作為？我們希望在會後能夠提供給我，你們的研究很好，但是政府有沒有採納？政府有沒有實際去做這些事情？我們在後續都要來追蹤，這個部分麻煩你。"],["廖院長俊智：好，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝。"],["主席：好，那就請院長後續再跟羅委員報告。謝謝羅廷瑋委員的質詢，院長請回。","我們的質詢都已經結束，關於今日會議作如下決議：一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員所提書面質詢或相關資料，列入紀錄並刊登公報。三、對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答復部分，請相關機關儘速以書面答復。四、112年度及113年度中央政府總預算，有關中央研究院主管預算解凍案2案業已審查完竣，准予動支，提報院會。五、114年度中央政府總預算案，有關中央研究院單位預算案、中央研究院科學研究基金附屬單位預算案，相關提案請於11月18日下午2時前提出，另訂期繼續審查。","報告委員會，今天議程處理完畢，現在休息，謝謝各位。","休息（12時35分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-8","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","萬美玲","吳沛憶","林倩綺","張雅琳","陳培瑜","吳春城","羅智強","翁曉玲","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2024-11-11"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 114年度中央政府總預\n算案有關中央研究院單位預算案；三、審查 114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院科學研究\n基金附屬單位預算案；四、處理中央研究院函，為112年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送第2目「一\n般學術研究及評議」預算繼續凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案；五、審查中央研究院函，為113\n年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議(一)「自然及人文社會科學研究」預算凍結100萬元書面報\n告，請查照案（第二案及第三案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00005"}}}