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\"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 532.607, \"end\": 533.067, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 533.067, \"end\": 533.087, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,748 --> 00:00:30,482\n好謝謝主席有請黃部長黃部長其實我們都很清楚我們知道說速發部算是針對打炸的第一線那請問你知道到目前為止到今年11月到目前為止每一個月我們國家被打炸金額是多少\n\n2\n00:00:31,004 --> 00:00:45,922\n每天大概3到6億嘛大概100億對所以每個月所以現在目前已經超過1000億那我在這邊看到的預算在這個應該是知安那個應該是那個庶產署的另外一個裡面有一個有關是今年對\n\n3\n00:00:46,903 --> 00:00:59,155\n老實講我覺得這個編列預算我總覺得有點怪怪的我們今年只編了3億來去針對數位的那個智慧防詐跟數位的簽證之類的這些我們看到這個預算我覺得很不能理解是這樣是不是跟我們講說其實我們對詐騙集團其實我們並沒有很在意是這個意思嗎\n\n4\n00:01:11,447 --> 00:01:40,233\n我們當我們已經一年1100億的損失的時候然後我們的智慧我記得是智慧防詐的這個預算我們只變到3億今年為什麼報告委員因為這個打詐是跨部會的合作所以我們目前編列在我們部裡面的就是一部分我們針對防詐之前源頭的那部分後面其實還有很多部會他們有編列進會在做打詐對那我們這個這裡面其實就是那個所謂的這個智慧\n\n5\n00:01:41,533 --> 00:01:56,262\n因為我們當初期待部長過來就是因為部長是業界的人對吧那我這次在看整個預算的時候我發現一些奇怪的地方請問一下部長以業界的角度來看一個所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的建制平台請問在業界知道這個平台要多少錢\n\n6\n00:02:08,688 --> 00:02:22,919\n現在很多這種commercialproduct大概多少錢大概幾百萬到幾千萬的license跟使用費用幾百萬就有嗎?如果說那如果說以部長這樣講的話當你如果你看到說請問一下這個都有在做嗎?那去年變多少錢?去年為這個系統變多少錢?我們都是3億3億在變並沒有成長沒有沒有3800萬\n\n7\n00:02:35,049 --> 00:02:40,193\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。\n\n8\n00:02:55,245 --> 00:03:09,716\n這就是所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的那個溝通平台請問你花了7600萬那我想請問說當部長講說其實幾百萬就有東西為什麼花了7600萬那成效在哪裡那個包括那只是軟體嘛還有維運維運我們剛剛沒有講維運的費用\n\n9\n00:03:12,518 --> 00:03:29,501\n所以兩年7600萬花的成效在哪裡呢?而且如果說從部長的專業來看的話這在PPP所謂的PublicandPrivatePartnership在美國現在美國政府一直在提倡這件事情為什麼不主動去用那為什麼要花3800萬在上面呢?\n\n10\n00:03:30,282 --> 00:03:47,514\n我只是...而且其他的還有其他什麼資...我記得我那時候看到很多平台欸那這些平台到底做發揮有什麼功用呢每一個都是1800萬、3000萬、3000萬、2000萬的這個平台至少4到5個平台對吧?你們...對吧?我只是...這個我需要...我都需要細部資料喔\n\n11\n00:03:48,254 --> 00:04:00,408\n因為既然我看到我們都覺得很奇怪而且甚至來講說為什麼這個所謂的這個整體政府資通安全防禦技術即系統韌性強化經費\n\n12\n00:04:03,731 --> 00:04:29,967\n總共14億今年就編了將近7億我記得沒有錯今年就編了將近7億那可是我直接進去看裡面那個預算書的時候好短啊三句話13億就不見了請問一下到底你們做什麼事情呢而且說給政府來做活用然後用數位科技來解決重大社會事件要花14億對吧你們自己寫的啊你們把那本書拿出來自己編的預算怎麼不知道呢\n\n13\n00:04:32,547 --> 00:04:54,896\n我不會預設立想說你們亂編但是你們這些到底講些什麼東西部長你知道你自己下面編的這11億到什麼地方去了嗎委員你們現在講的是哪一個預算他們說他們沒有看到這一筆沒有資通安全署你們上面這集有寫資通安全署上面整體政府資通安全防疫技術暨系統韌性強化強化經費總經費將近14億分4年辦理今年就要負責說\n\n14\n00:05:01,142 --> 00:05:06,834\n負責6億9500萬這是你們自己寫的在上面啊那我直接看進去裡面預算書的時候裡面只給我五六句\n\n15\n00:05:08,789 --> 00:05:28,518\n部長我很好奇我們國家納稅錢就是隨隨便便這樣編出來的啊請請報告委員基本上我沒有看到14億的這個這樣你們自己寫的耶這是你們先來來報你們自己都不認帳啊\n\n16\n00:05:32,766 --> 00:06:00,840\n我個人我從來不會預設立場但是你們這邊自己寫說14億資通安全署負責6億9591萬那我就很好奇說你們這個東西寫的說是用數位科技去解決重大社會事件然後講的說用什麼要符合政府的彈性那這到底是怎麼回事\n\n17\n00:06:02,216 --> 00:06:31,070\n拜託部長如果連你都不知道的時候你們如果第一時間你們今天來這邊是來這邊就是來來幹嘛的報告委員這一筆預算是我們提的計劃是除了那個詹署之外還有其他部會我們一起做的聯訪提的那個計劃預算那你們在幹嘛就是說這幾句你可以算得出來吧很短那七句就13億就不見了那為什麼會怎麼會有這種東西呢任性兩個字就代表13億嗎\n\n18\n00:06:32,695 --> 00:06:47,022\n報告委員其實這個是所有的部會在4年要執行的預算並不是全部資安署資安署付了多少?7億的?資安署在整體的預算是7億在4年什麼叫做用數位科技解決社會重大事件?\n\n19\n00:06:47,822 --> 00:07:07,572\n報告委員我先跟您簡單報告一下自然署114年要做的事情第一個是對不起我是針對這個預算的而且老實講自然署是為了你們編的這個預算我們在看的時候覺得很納悶這錢怎麼會這樣子這樣做包括剛剛講的這些還有資訊人才資訊人才交流流通平台1800萬\n\n20\n00:07:10,576 --> 00:07:37,588\n就在你剛剛我剛剛講這個上面是報告委員我想請問這些平台的功用到底最後在哪裡因為我們當我們在看整個預算的時候我只能講兩個字疑惑而且我老實講我是當初去看的時候是以不預設立場的情況去看的可是當我跟那些專業人士去討論的時候發覺說這幾筆預算好奇怪甚至如果說就拿直接上面來講說辦理國家資通安全政策3億對吧\n\n21\n00:07:39,571 --> 00:07:42,852\n我會覺得我辦公室每一筆每一筆我都需要詳細說每一筆每一筆我都需要資料因為我說真的我如果說動不動13億就7億就不見了那我會覺得無法接受\n\n22\n00:08:04,398 --> 00:08:22,805\n是,瞭解。先跟委員簡單報告一下,就是委員看到的整體的計畫數字是各部會一起執行的數字,那自然署在114年是7億,但是7億我們分成好幾塊,譬如說我們要加強集合,要集合40個場次,然後我們要做聯訪,就是全國納管機關7600個機關的聯訪。\n\n23\n00:08:27,246 --> 00:08:53,087\n如果你是我在這位置上面你看到這筆錢這樣亂用的時候你會覺得說我們國家的納稅、我們國家的財政如果說困難一天到晚取債是為了些什麼那我要請部長請數位發展部提供各項計畫細部的計畫的整表沒問題我們會說明但是那個剛剛委員看到很多事全部部會加起來的資安預算所以這個我們再提細部說明好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5748\t30482\t好謝謝主席有請黃部長黃部長其實我們都很清楚我們知道說速發部算是針對打炸的第一線那請問你知道到目前為止到今年11月到目前為止每一個月我們國家被打炸金額是多少\n31004\t45922\t每天大概3到6億嘛大概100億對所以每個月所以現在目前已經超過1000億那我在這邊看到的預算在這個應該是知安那個應該是那個庶產署的另外一個裡面有一個有關是今年對\n46903\t59155\t老實講我覺得這個編列預算我總覺得有點怪怪的我們今年只編了3億來去針對數位的那個智慧防詐跟數位的簽證之類的這些我們看到這個預算我覺得很不能理解是這樣是不是跟我們講說其實我們對詐騙集團其實我們並沒有很在意是這個意思嗎\n71447\t100233\t我們當我們已經一年1100億的損失的時候然後我們的智慧我記得是智慧防詐的這個預算我們只變到3億今年為什麼報告委員因為這個打詐是跨部會的合作所以我們目前編列在我們部裡面的就是一部分我們針對防詐之前源頭的那部分後面其實還有很多部會他們有編列進會在做打詐對那我們這個這裡面其實就是那個所謂的這個智慧\n101533\t116262\t因為我們當初期待部長過來就是因為部長是業界的人對吧那我這次在看整個預算的時候我發現一些奇怪的地方請問一下部長以業界的角度來看一個所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的建制平台請問在業界知道這個平台要多少錢\n128688\t142919\t現在很多這種commercial product大概多少錢大概幾百萬到幾千萬的license跟使用費用幾百萬就有嗎?如果說那如果說以部長這樣講的話當你如果你看到說請問一下這個都有在做嗎?那去年變多少錢?去年為這個系統變多少錢?我們都是3億3億在變並沒有成長沒有沒有3800萬\n155049\t160193\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。\n175245\t189716\t這就是所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的那個溝通平台請問你花了7600萬那我想請問說當部長講說其實幾百萬就有東西為什麼花了7600萬那成效在哪裡那個包括那只是軟體嘛還有維運維運我們剛剛沒有講維運的費用\n192518\t209501\t所以兩年7600萬花的成效在哪裡呢?而且如果說從部長的專業來看的話這在PPP所謂的Public and Private Partnership在美國現在美國政府一直在提倡這件事情為什麼不主動去用那為什麼要花3800萬在上面呢?\n210282\t227514\t我只是...而且其他的還有其他什麼資...我記得我那時候看到很多平台欸那這些平台到底做發揮有什麼功用呢每一個都是1800萬、3000萬、3000萬、2000萬的這個平台至少4到5個平台對吧?你們...對吧?我只是...這個我需要...我都需要細部資料喔\n228254\t240408\t因為既然我看到我們都覺得很奇怪而且甚至來講說為什麼這個所謂的這個整體政府資通安全防禦技術即系統韌性強化經費\n243731\t269967\t總共14億今年就編了將近7億我記得沒有錯今年就編了將近7億那可是我直接進去看裡面那個預算書的時候好短啊三句話13億就不見了請問一下到底你們做什麼事情呢而且說給政府來做活用然後用數位科技來解決重大社會事件要花14億對吧你們自己寫的啊你們把那本書拿出來自己編的預算怎麼不知道呢\n272547\t294896\t我不會預設立想說你們亂編但是你們這些到底講些什麼東西部長你知道你自己下面編的這11億到什麼地方去了嗎委員你們現在講的是哪一個預算他們說他們沒有看到這一筆沒有資通安全署你們上面這集有寫資通安全署上面整體政府資通安全防疫技術暨系統韌性強化強化經費總經費將近14億分4年辦理今年就要負責說\n301142\t306834\t負責6億9500萬這是你們自己寫的在上面啊那我直接看進去裡面預算書的時候裡面只給我五六句\n308789\t328518\t部長我很好奇我們國家納稅錢就是隨隨便便這樣編出來的啊請請報告委員基本上我沒有看到14億的這個這樣你們自己寫的耶這是你們先來來報你們自己都不認帳啊\n332766\t360840\t我個人我從來不會預設立場但是你們這邊自己寫說14億資通安全署負責6億9591萬那我就很好奇說你們這個東西寫的說是用數位科技去解決重大社會事件然後講的說用什麼要符合政府的彈性那這到底是怎麼回事\n362216\t391070\t拜託部長如果連你都不知道的時候你們如果第一時間你們今天來這邊是來這邊就是來來幹嘛的報告委員這一筆預算是我們提的計劃是除了那個詹署之外還有其他部會我們一起做的聯訪提的那個計劃預算那你們在幹嘛就是說這幾句你可以算得出來吧很短那七句就13億就不見了那為什麼會怎麼會有這種東西呢任性兩個字就代表13億嗎\n392695\t407022\t報告委員其實這個是所有的部會在4年要執行的預算並不是全部資安署資安署付了多少?7億的?資安署在整體的預算是7億在4年什麼叫做用數位科技解決社會重大事件?\n407822\t427572\t報告委員我先跟您簡單報告一下自然署114年要做的事情第一個是對不起我是針對這個預算的而且老實講自然署是為了你們編的這個預算我們在看的時候覺得很納悶這錢怎麼會這樣子這樣做包括剛剛講的這些還有資訊人才資訊人才交流流通平台1800萬\n430576\t457588\t就在你剛剛我剛剛講這個上面是報告委員我想請問這些平台的功用到底最後在哪裡因為我們當我們在看整個預算的時候我只能講兩個字疑惑而且我老實講我是當初去看的時候是以不預設立場的情況去看的可是當我跟那些專業人士去討論的時候發覺說這幾筆預算好奇怪甚至如果說就拿直接上面來講說辦理國家資通安全政策3億對吧\n459571\t462852\t我會覺得我辦公室每一筆每一筆我都需要詳細說每一筆每一筆我都需要資料因為我說真的我如果說動不動13億就7億就不見了那我會覺得無法接受\n484398\t502805\t是,瞭解。先跟委員簡單報告一下,就是委員看到的整體的計畫數字是各部會一起執行的數字,那自然署在114年是7億,但是7億我們分成好幾塊,譬如說我們要加強集合,要集合40個場次,然後我們要做聯訪,就是全國納管機關7600個機關的聯訪。\n507246\t533087\t如果你是我在這位置上面你看到這筆錢這樣亂用的時候你會覺得說我們國家的納稅、我們國家的財政如果說困難一天到晚取債是為了些什麼那我要請部長請數位發展部提供各項計畫細部的計畫的整表沒問題我們會說明但是那個剛剛委員看到很多事全部部會加起來的資安預算所以這個我們再提細部說明好謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請黃部長黃部長其實我們都很清楚我們知道說速發部算是針對打炸的第一線那請問你知道到目前為止到今年11月到目前為止每一個月我們國家被打炸金額是多少\n每天大概3到6億嘛大概100億對所以每個月所以現在目前已經超過1000億那我在這邊看到的預算在這個應該是知安那個應該是那個庶產署的另外一個裡面有一個有關是今年對\n老實講我覺得這個編列預算我總覺得有點怪怪的我們今年只編了3億來去針對數位的那個智慧防詐跟數位的簽證之類的這些我們看到這個預算我覺得很不能理解是這樣是不是跟我們講說其實我們對詐騙集團其實我們並沒有很在意是這個意思嗎\n我們當我們已經一年1100億的損失的時候然後我們的智慧我記得是智慧防詐的這個預算我們只變到3億今年為什麼報告委員因為這個打詐是跨部會的合作所以我們目前編列在我們部裡面的就是一部分我們針對防詐之前源頭的那部分後面其實還有很多部會他們有編列進會在做打詐對那我們這個這裡面其實就是那個所謂的這個智慧\n因為我們當初期待部長過來就是因為部長是業界的人對吧那我這次在看整個預算的時候我發現一些奇怪的地方請問一下部長以業界的角度來看一個所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的建制平台請問在業界知道這個平台要多少錢\n現在很多這種commercial product大概多少錢大概幾百萬到幾千萬的license跟使用費用幾百萬就有嗎?如果說那如果說以部長這樣講的話當你如果你看到說請問一下這個都有在做嗎?那去年變多少錢?去年為這個系統變多少錢?我們都是3億3億在變並沒有成長沒有沒有3800萬\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。\n這就是所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的那個溝通平台請問你花了7600萬那我想請問說當部長講說其實幾百萬就有東西為什麼花了7600萬那成效在哪裡那個包括那只是軟體嘛還有維運維運我們剛剛沒有講維運的費用\n所以兩年7600萬花的成效在哪裡呢?而且如果說從部長的專業來看的話這在PPP所謂的Public and Private Partnership在美國現在美國政府一直在提倡這件事情為什麼不主動去用那為什麼要花3800萬在上面呢?\n我只是...而且其他的還有其他什麼資...我記得我那時候看到很多平台欸那這些平台到底做發揮有什麼功用呢每一個都是1800萬、3000萬、3000萬、2000萬的這個平台至少4到5個平台對吧?你們...對吧?我只是...這個我需要...我都需要細部資料喔\n因為既然我看到我們都覺得很奇怪而且甚至來講說為什麼這個所謂的這個整體政府資通安全防禦技術即系統韌性強化經費\n總共14億今年就編了將近7億我記得沒有錯今年就編了將近7億那可是我直接進去看裡面那個預算書的時候好短啊三句話13億就不見了請問一下到底你們做什麼事情呢而且說給政府來做活用然後用數位科技來解決重大社會事件要花14億對吧你們自己寫的啊你們把那本書拿出來自己編的預算怎麼不知道呢\n我不會預設立想說你們亂編但是你們這些到底講些什麼東西部長你知道你自己下面編的這11億到什麼地方去了嗎委員你們現在講的是哪一個預算他們說他們沒有看到這一筆沒有資通安全署你們上面這集有寫資通安全署上面整體政府資通安全防疫技術暨系統韌性強化強化經費總經費將近14億分4年辦理今年就要負責說\n負責6億9500萬這是你們自己寫的在上面啊那我直接看進去裡面預算書的時候裡面只給我五六句\n部長我很好奇我們國家納稅錢就是隨隨便便這樣編出來的啊請請報告委員基本上我沒有看到14億的這個這樣你們自己寫的耶這是你們先來來報你們自己都不認帳啊\n我個人我從來不會預設立場但是你們這邊自己寫說14億資通安全署負責6億9591萬那我就很好奇說你們這個東西寫的說是用數位科技去解決重大社會事件然後講的說用什麼要符合政府的彈性那這到底是怎麼回事\n拜託部長如果連你都不知道的時候你們如果第一時間你們今天來這邊是來這邊就是來來幹嘛的報告委員這一筆預算是我們提的計劃是除了那個詹署之外還有其他部會我們一起做的聯訪提的那個計劃預算那你們在幹嘛就是說這幾句你可以算得出來吧很短那七句就13億就不見了那為什麼會怎麼會有這種東西呢任性兩個字就代表13億嗎\n報告委員其實這個是所有的部會在4年要執行的預算並不是全部資安署資安署付了多少?7億的?資安署在整體的預算是7億在4年什麼叫做用數位科技解決社會重大事件?\n報告委員我先跟您簡單報告一下自然署114年要做的事情第一個是對不起我是針對這個預算的而且老實講自然署是為了你們編的這個預算我們在看的時候覺得很納悶這錢怎麼會這樣子這樣做包括剛剛講的這些還有資訊人才資訊人才交流流通平台1800萬\n就在你剛剛我剛剛講這個上面是報告委員我想請問這些平台的功用到底最後在哪裡因為我們當我們在看整個預算的時候我只能講兩個字疑惑而且我老實講我是當初去看的時候是以不預設立場的情況去看的可是當我跟那些專業人士去討論的時候發覺說這幾筆預算好奇怪甚至如果說就拿直接上面來講說辦理國家資通安全政策3億對吧\n我會覺得我辦公室每一筆每一筆我都需要詳細說每一筆每一筆我都需要資料因為我說真的我如果說動不動13億就7億就不見了那我會覺得無法接受\n是,瞭解。先跟委員簡單報告一下,就是委員看到的整體的計畫數字是各部會一起執行的數字,那自然署在114年是7億,但是7億我們分成好幾塊,譬如說我們要加強集合,要集合40個場次,然後我們要做聯訪,就是全國納管機關7600個機關的聯訪。\n如果你是我在這位置上面你看到這筆錢這樣亂用的時候你會覺得說我們國家的納稅、我們國家的財政如果說困難一天到晚取債是為了些什麼那我要請部長請數位發展部提供各項計畫細部的計畫的整表沒問題我們會說明但是那個剛剛委員看到很多事全部部會加起來的資安預算所以這個我們再提細部說明好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.748 --> 00:30.482\n好謝謝主席有請黃部長黃部長其實我們都很清楚我們知道說速發部算是針對打炸的第一線那請問你知道到目前為止到今年11月到目前為止每一個月我們國家被打炸金額是多少\n\n00:31.004 --> 00:45.922\n每天大概3到6億嘛大概100億對所以每個月所以現在目前已經超過1000億那我在這邊看到的預算在這個應該是知安那個應該是那個庶產署的另外一個裡面有一個有關是今年對\n\n00:46.903 --> 00:59.155\n老實講我覺得這個編列預算我總覺得有點怪怪的我們今年只編了3億來去針對數位的那個智慧防詐跟數位的簽證之類的這些我們看到這個預算我覺得很不能理解是這樣是不是跟我們講說其實我們對詐騙集團其實我們並沒有很在意是這個意思嗎\n\n01:11.447 --> 01:40.233\n我們當我們已經一年1100億的損失的時候然後我們的智慧我記得是智慧防詐的這個預算我們只變到3億今年為什麼報告委員因為這個打詐是跨部會的合作所以我們目前編列在我們部裡面的就是一部分我們針對防詐之前源頭的那部分後面其實還有很多部會他們有編列進會在做打詐對那我們這個這裡面其實就是那個所謂的這個智慧\n\n01:41.533 --> 01:56.262\n因為我們當初期待部長過來就是因為部長是業界的人對吧那我這次在看整個預算的時候我發現一些奇怪的地方請問一下部長以業界的角度來看一個所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的建制平台請問在業界知道這個平台要多少錢\n\n02:08.688 --> 02:22.919\n現在很多這種commercialproduct大概多少錢大概幾百萬到幾千萬的license跟使用費用幾百萬就有嗎?如果說那如果說以部長這樣講的話當你如果你看到說請問一下這個都有在做嗎?那去年變多少錢?去年為這個系統變多少錢?我們都是3億3億在變並沒有成長沒有沒有3800萬\n\n02:35.049 --> 02:40.193\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。\n\n02:55.245 --> 03:09.716\n這就是所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的那個溝通平台請問你花了7600萬那我想請問說當部長講說其實幾百萬就有東西為什麼花了7600萬那成效在哪裡那個包括那只是軟體嘛還有維運維運我們剛剛沒有講維運的費用\n\n03:12.518 --> 03:29.501\n所以兩年7600萬花的成效在哪裡呢?而且如果說從部長的專業來看的話這在PPP所謂的PublicandPrivatePartnership在美國現在美國政府一直在提倡這件事情為什麼不主動去用那為什麼要花3800萬在上面呢?\n\n03:30.282 --> 03:47.514\n我只是...而且其他的還有其他什麼資...我記得我那時候看到很多平台欸那這些平台到底做發揮有什麼功用呢每一個都是1800萬、3000萬、3000萬、2000萬的這個平台至少4到5個平台對吧?你們...對吧?我只是...這個我需要...我都需要細部資料喔\n\n03:48.254 --> 04:00.408\n因為既然我看到我們都覺得很奇怪而且甚至來講說為什麼這個所謂的這個整體政府資通安全防禦技術即系統韌性強化經費\n\n04:03.731 --> 04:29.967\n總共14億今年就編了將近7億我記得沒有錯今年就編了將近7億那可是我直接進去看裡面那個預算書的時候好短啊三句話13億就不見了請問一下到底你們做什麼事情呢而且說給政府來做活用然後用數位科技來解決重大社會事件要花14億對吧你們自己寫的啊你們把那本書拿出來自己編的預算怎麼不知道呢\n\n04:32.547 --> 04:54.896\n我不會預設立想說你們亂編但是你們這些到底講些什麼東西部長你知道你自己下面編的這11億到什麼地方去了嗎委員你們現在講的是哪一個預算他們說他們沒有看到這一筆沒有資通安全署你們上面這集有寫資通安全署上面整體政府資通安全防疫技術暨系統韌性強化強化經費總經費將近14億分4年辦理今年就要負責說\n\n05:01.142 --> 05:06.834\n負責6億9500萬這是你們自己寫的在上面啊那我直接看進去裡面預算書的時候裡面只給我五六句\n\n05:08.789 --> 05:28.518\n部長我很好奇我們國家納稅錢就是隨隨便便這樣編出來的啊請請報告委員基本上我沒有看到14億的這個這樣你們自己寫的耶這是你們先來來報你們自己都不認帳啊\n\n05:32.766 --> 06:00.840\n我個人我從來不會預設立場但是你們這邊自己寫說14億資通安全署負責6億9591萬那我就很好奇說你們這個東西寫的說是用數位科技去解決重大社會事件然後講的說用什麼要符合政府的彈性那這到底是怎麼回事\n\n06:02.216 --> 06:31.070\n拜託部長如果連你都不知道的時候你們如果第一時間你們今天來這邊是來這邊就是來來幹嘛的報告委員這一筆預算是我們提的計劃是除了那個詹署之外還有其他部會我們一起做的聯訪提的那個計劃預算那你們在幹嘛就是說這幾句你可以算得出來吧很短那七句就13億就不見了那為什麼會怎麼會有這種東西呢任性兩個字就代表13億嗎\n\n06:32.695 --> 06:47.022\n報告委員其實這個是所有的部會在4年要執行的預算並不是全部資安署資安署付了多少?7億的?資安署在整體的預算是7億在4年什麼叫做用數位科技解決社會重大事件?\n\n06:47.822 --> 07:07.572\n報告委員我先跟您簡單報告一下自然署114年要做的事情第一個是對不起我是針對這個預算的而且老實講自然署是為了你們編的這個預算我們在看的時候覺得很納悶這錢怎麼會這樣子這樣做包括剛剛講的這些還有資訊人才資訊人才交流流通平台1800萬\n\n07:10.576 --> 07:37.588\n就在你剛剛我剛剛講這個上面是報告委員我想請問這些平台的功用到底最後在哪裡因為我們當我們在看整個預算的時候我只能講兩個字疑惑而且我老實講我是當初去看的時候是以不預設立場的情況去看的可是當我跟那些專業人士去討論的時候發覺說這幾筆預算好奇怪甚至如果說就拿直接上面來講說辦理國家資通安全政策3億對吧\n\n07:39.571 --> 07:42.852\n我會覺得我辦公室每一筆每一筆我都需要詳細說每一筆每一筆我都需要資料因為我說真的我如果說動不動13億就7億就不見了那我會覺得無法接受\n\n08:04.398 --> 08:22.805\n是,瞭解。先跟委員簡單報告一下,就是委員看到的整體的計畫數字是各部會一起執行的數字,那自然署在114年是7億,但是7億我們分成好幾塊,譬如說我們要加強集合,要集合40個場次,然後我們要做聯訪,就是全國納管機關7600個機關的聯訪。\n\n08:27.246 --> 08:53.087\n如果你是我在這位置上面你看到這筆錢這樣亂用的時候你會覺得說我們國家的納稅、我們國家的財政如果說困難一天到晚取債是為了些什麼那我要請部長請數位發展部提供各項計畫細部的計畫的整表沒問題我們會說明但是那個剛剛委員看到很多事全部部會加起來的資安預算所以這個我們再提細部說明好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.748,"end":30.482,"text":"好謝謝主席有請黃部長黃部長其實我們都很清楚我們知道說速發部算是針對打炸的第一線那請問你知道到目前為止到今年11月到目前為止每一個月我們國家被打炸金額是多少"},{"start":31.004,"end":45.922,"text":"每天大概3到6億嘛大概100億對所以每個月所以現在目前已經超過1000億那我在這邊看到的預算在這個應該是知安那個應該是那個庶產署的另外一個裡面有一個有關是今年對"},{"start":46.903,"end":59.155,"text":"老實講我覺得這個編列預算我總覺得有點怪怪的我們今年只編了3億來去針對數位的那個智慧防詐跟數位的簽證之類的這些我們看到這個預算我覺得很不能理解是這樣是不是跟我們講說其實我們對詐騙集團其實我們並沒有很在意是這個意思嗎"},{"start":71.447,"end":100.233,"text":"我們當我們已經一年1100億的損失的時候然後我們的智慧我記得是智慧防詐的這個預算我們只變到3億今年為什麼報告委員因為這個打詐是跨部會的合作所以我們目前編列在我們部裡面的就是一部分我們針對防詐之前源頭的那部分後面其實還有很多部會他們有編列進會在做打詐對那我們這個這裡面其實就是那個所謂的這個智慧"},{"start":101.533,"end":116.262,"text":"因為我們當初期待部長過來就是因為部長是業界的人對吧那我這次在看整個預算的時候我發現一些奇怪的地方請問一下部長以業界的角度來看一個所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的建制平台請問在業界知道這個平台要多少錢"},{"start":128.688,"end":142.919,"text":"現在很多這種commercial product大概多少錢大概幾百萬到幾千萬的license跟使用費用幾百萬就有嗎?如果說那如果說以部長這樣講的話當你如果你看到說請問一下這個都有在做嗎?那去年變多少錢?去年為這個系統變多少錢?我們都是3億3億在變並沒有成長沒有沒有3800萬"},{"start":155.049,"end":160.193,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":175.245,"end":189.716,"text":"這就是所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的那個溝通平台請問你花了7600萬那我想請問說當部長講說其實幾百萬就有東西為什麼花了7600萬那成效在哪裡那個包括那只是軟體嘛還有維運維運我們剛剛沒有講維運的費用"},{"start":192.518,"end":209.501,"text":"所以兩年7600萬花的成效在哪裡呢?而且如果說從部長的專業來看的話這在PPP所謂的Public and Private Partnership在美國現在美國政府一直在提倡這件事情為什麼不主動去用那為什麼要花3800萬在上面呢?"},{"start":210.282,"end":227.514,"text":"我只是...而且其他的還有其他什麼資...我記得我那時候看到很多平台欸那這些平台到底做發揮有什麼功用呢每一個都是1800萬、3000萬、3000萬、2000萬的這個平台至少4到5個平台對吧?你們...對吧?我只是...這個我需要...我都需要細部資料喔"},{"start":228.254,"end":240.408,"text":"因為既然我看到我們都覺得很奇怪而且甚至來講說為什麼這個所謂的這個整體政府資通安全防禦技術即系統韌性強化經費"},{"start":243.731,"end":269.967,"text":"總共14億今年就編了將近7億我記得沒有錯今年就編了將近7億那可是我直接進去看裡面那個預算書的時候好短啊三句話13億就不見了請問一下到底你們做什麼事情呢而且說給政府來做活用然後用數位科技來解決重大社會事件要花14億對吧你們自己寫的啊你們把那本書拿出來自己編的預算怎麼不知道呢"},{"start":272.547,"end":294.896,"text":"我不會預設立想說你們亂編但是你們這些到底講些什麼東西部長你知道你自己下面編的這11億到什麼地方去了嗎委員你們現在講的是哪一個預算他們說他們沒有看到這一筆沒有資通安全署你們上面這集有寫資通安全署上面整體政府資通安全防疫技術暨系統韌性強化強化經費總經費將近14億分4年辦理今年就要負責說"},{"start":301.142,"end":306.834,"text":"負責6億9500萬這是你們自己寫的在上面啊那我直接看進去裡面預算書的時候裡面只給我五六句"},{"start":308.789,"end":328.518,"text":"部長我很好奇我們國家納稅錢就是隨隨便便這樣編出來的啊請請報告委員基本上我沒有看到14億的這個這樣你們自己寫的耶這是你們先來來報你們自己都不認帳啊"},{"start":332.766,"end":360.84,"text":"我個人我從來不會預設立場但是你們這邊自己寫說14億資通安全署負責6億9591萬那我就很好奇說你們這個東西寫的說是用數位科技去解決重大社會事件然後講的說用什麼要符合政府的彈性那這到底是怎麼回事"},{"start":362.216,"end":391.07,"text":"拜託部長如果連你都不知道的時候你們如果第一時間你們今天來這邊是來這邊就是來來幹嘛的報告委員這一筆預算是我們提的計劃是除了那個詹署之外還有其他部會我們一起做的聯訪提的那個計劃預算那你們在幹嘛就是說這幾句你可以算得出來吧很短那七句就13億就不見了那為什麼會怎麼會有這種東西呢任性兩個字就代表13億嗎"},{"start":392.695,"end":407.022,"text":"報告委員其實這個是所有的部會在4年要執行的預算並不是全部資安署資安署付了多少?7億的?資安署在整體的預算是7億在4年什麼叫做用數位科技解決社會重大事件?"},{"start":407.822,"end":427.572,"text":"報告委員我先跟您簡單報告一下自然署114年要做的事情第一個是對不起我是針對這個預算的而且老實講自然署是為了你們編的這個預算我們在看的時候覺得很納悶這錢怎麼會這樣子這樣做包括剛剛講的這些還有資訊人才資訊人才交流流通平台1800萬"},{"start":430.576,"end":457.588,"text":"就在你剛剛我剛剛講這個上面是報告委員我想請問這些平台的功用到底最後在哪裡因為我們當我們在看整個預算的時候我只能講兩個字疑惑而且我老實講我是當初去看的時候是以不預設立場的情況去看的可是當我跟那些專業人士去討論的時候發覺說這幾筆預算好奇怪甚至如果說就拿直接上面來講說辦理國家資通安全政策3億對吧"},{"start":459.571,"end":462.852,"text":"我會覺得我辦公室每一筆每一筆我都需要詳細說每一筆每一筆我都需要資料因為我說真的我如果說動不動13億就7億就不見了那我會覺得無法接受"},{"start":484.398,"end":502.805,"text":"是,瞭解。先跟委員簡單報告一下,就是委員看到的整體的計畫數字是各部會一起執行的數字,那自然署在114年是7億,但是7億我們分成好幾塊,譬如說我們要加強集合,要集合40個場次,然後我們要做聯訪,就是全國納管機關7600個機關的聯訪。"},{"start":507.246,"end":533.087,"text":"如果你是我在這位置上面你看到這筆錢這樣亂用的時候你會覺得說我們國家的納稅、我們國家的財政如果說困難一天到晚取債是為了些什麼那我要請部長請數位發展部提供各項計畫細部的計畫的整表沒問題我們會說明但是那個剛剛委員看到很多事全部部會加起來的資安預算所以這個我們再提細部說明好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":87,"blocks":[["林委員沛祥：（9時16分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：林委員早。"],["林委員沛祥：黃部長，其實我們都很清楚，我們知道數發部算是針對打詐的第一線，請問你知道到目前為止、到今年11月，每一個月我們國家被詐的金額是多少？"],["黃部長彥男：每天大概3到6億，大概是100億。"],["林委員沛祥：對，所以目前已經超過1,000億，我在這邊看到的預算，應該是數產署裡面有一個有關今年……"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員沛祥：老實講，我覺得這個預算編列有點怪怪的，因為你們今年只編了3億去針對智慧防詐跟數位簽證之類的這些，我那時候看到這個預算後覺得很不能理解，這樣是不是在跟我們說其實我們對於詐騙集團並沒有很在意，是這個意思嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，報告委員……"],["林委員沛祥：當我們已經是一年有1,100億的損失的時候，然後我們的智慧防詐的預算只編3億，為什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，因為打詐是跨部會的合作，所以目前編列在我們部裡面的就是一部分，針對防詐我們是處理源頭的那部分，後面其實還有很多部會他們有編列經費在做打詐，我們這裡面其實就是所謂的智慧，用AI的技術……"],["林委員沛祥：我們當初期待部長過來，就是因為部長是業界的人，對吧？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員沛祥：但我在看整個預算的時候發現一些奇怪的地方，請問一下部長，以業界的角度來看，所謂的email and vicious threat detection platform，也就是所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的建置平臺，請問業界知道這個平臺要多少錢？"],["黃部長彥男：現在很多這種commercial product嘛……"],["林委員沛祥：對，大概要多少錢？"],["黃部長彥男：現在大概是幾百萬到幾千萬的license跟使用費用。"],["林委員沛祥：幾百萬就有嘛，如果說1,000萬……"],["黃部長彥男：就是去買現成的。"],["林委員沛祥：我想請問一下，如果以部長這樣講的話，這個都有在做嘛，那去年編多少錢？去年為這個系統編多少錢？"],["黃部長彥男：我們都是3億、3億在編，並沒有成長。"],["林委員沛祥：沒有、沒有，3,800萬，請問這兩年的3,800萬之後，兩年總共花了我們納稅錢7,600萬，請問它的成效在哪裡？請問資安署，花了7,600萬之後的成效在哪裡？這個email and vicious threat detection platform，就是所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的溝通平臺，請問你們花了7,600萬的成效在哪裡？剛剛部長說其實幾百萬就有的東西，為什麼要花7,600萬，成效在哪裡？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，那只是軟體，還要維運，我剛剛沒有講維運的費用。"],["林委員沛祥：所以兩年7,600萬花了之後的成效在哪裡呢？而且如果從部長的專業來看的話，這個PPP，所謂的Public-Private Partnership，現在美國政府一直在提倡這件事情，為什麼我們不主動去用？為什麼要花3,800萬在這上面呢？而且還有其他什麼，我記得我那時候看到有很多平臺耶，這些平臺到底發揮什麼功用呢？每一個都是1,800萬、3,000萬、3,000萬、2,000萬，這樣的平臺至少有4到5個平臺，對吧？這個我都需要細部資料喔……"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員沛祥：我看到都覺得很奇怪，而且甚至來講，所謂的整體政府資通安全防禦技術暨系統韌性強化經費總共14億，今年就編了將近7億，我記得沒有錯，今年就編了將近7億，可是我直接去看預算書的時候，好短啊，三句話13億就不見了，請問一下到底你們在做什麼事情呢？而且說給政府來做活用，然後用數位科技來解決重大社會事件，要花14億，對吧？這是你們自己寫的啊，你們把那本拿出來看，你們自己編的預算怎麼不知道呢？我不會預設立場說你們亂編，但是你們這些到底講了些什麼東西？部長，你知道你自己下面編的這14億到什麼地方去了嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：委員，您現在講的是哪一個預算，他們說他們沒有看到這一筆。"],["林委員沛祥：沒有？資通安全署，你們上面自己也有寫，資通安全署的「整體政府資通安全防禦技術暨系統韌性強化計畫」總經費將近14億，分4年辦理，資安署負擔6億9,500萬，這是你們自己寫的，那我直接去看預算書的時候，裡面只給我五、六句！"],["謝署長翠娟：沒有到那麼多錢。"],["林委員沛祥：部長，我很好奇，我們國家納稅錢就隨隨便便這樣編出來啊！"],["黃部長彥男：我請署長說明一下。"],["林委員沛祥：請。"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，基本上我沒有看到14億的這個項目……"],["林委員沛祥：這是你們自己寫的耶！你們今天來報告，你們自己都不認帳啊！我個人從來不會預設立場，但是這邊你們自己寫總經費14億，資通安全署負擔6億9,591萬元，我就很好奇，你們這個東西寫的是要用數位科技去解決重大社會事件，然後還講說要符合政府的彈性，這到底是怎麼回事？部長，如果連你都不知道的時候，你們今天來這邊是來幹嘛的？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，有關這一筆預算，我們提的計畫是除了資安署之外還有其他部會，我們一起提的計畫預算。"],["林委員沛祥：那裡面到底在幹嘛？因為就只寫了幾句，你可以算得出來吧，很短……"],["謝署長翠娟：對、對、對。"],["林委員沛祥：六、七句13億就不見了，怎麼會有這種東西呢？韌性兩個字就代表13億嗎？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，其實這個是所有部會在4年要執行的預算，並不是全部資安署這邊……"],["林委員沛祥：資安署負擔多少？"],["謝署長翠娟：資安署在整體的預算是7億，在114年……"],["林委員沛祥：請問一下要做些什麼？什麼叫做用數位科技解決社會重大事件？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，我先跟您簡單報告一下資安署114年要做的事情，第一個是……"],["林委員沛祥：對不起，我是針對這個預算，而且老實講，對於資安署編列的這筆預算讓我們在看到的時候覺得很納悶，錢怎麼會這樣做，包括剛剛講的這些，還有資訊人才交流流通平臺1,800萬，就在我剛剛講的這個上面。"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，這個資安……"],["林委員沛祥：我想請問這些平臺的功用到底在哪裡？因為當我們在看整個預算的時候，我只能講兩個字「疑惑」，而且老實講，我當初去看的時候是以不預設立場情況去看的，可是當我跟那些專業人士去討論的時候，發覺這幾筆預算好奇怪，甚至就直接拿上面的來講，辦理國家資通安全政策3億，對吧？3億那個數字，難怪人家說要看細節，因為魔鬼藏在細節裡面，devil is in the detail，可是又覺得這底是怎麼回事，我會請我辦公室要求你們對每一筆每一筆都需要詳細說明，每一筆每一筆我都需要資料，因為說真的，如果動不動13億、7億就不見了，那我會覺得無法接受。"],["謝署長翠娟：是，了解。先跟委員簡單報告一下，就是委員看到的整體計畫數字是各部會一起執行的數字，資安署在114年是7億，但是7億我們分成好幾塊，譬如說我們要加強稽核，要稽核40個場次，然後我們要做聯防，就是全國7,600個納管機關的聯防。"],["林委員沛祥：今天老實講，部長，如果你是我在這個位置上面，你看到這筆錢這樣亂用的時候，你會覺得我們國家的納稅錢、國家的財政如果有困難一天到晚舉債是為了些什麼？我要請部長、請數位發展部提供各項計畫、細部計畫的整表。"],["謝署長翠娟：沒問題。"],["黃部長彥男：這沒問題，我們會說明，但是剛剛委員看到很多是屬於全部部會加起來的資安預算，所以這個我們再提細部說明。"],["林委員沛祥：好，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林沛祥委員。","接下來邀請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}}