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{\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 183.746, \"end\": 184.887, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 184.887, \"end\": 185.067, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 185.067, \"end\": 185.208, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 185.208, \"end\": 185.528, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 185.528, \"end\": 185.548, \"score\": 0.685}]}, {\"start\": 185.708, \"end\": 187.468, \"text\": \"來部長你聽的我告訴你們這裡面就是什麼兩種\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 185.708, \"end\": 185.748, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 185.748, \"end\": 185.968, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 185.968, \"end\": 186.428, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 186.428, \"end\": 186.588, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 186.588, \"end\": 186.628, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 186.628, \"end\": 186.748, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 186.748, \"end\": 187.008, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 187.008, \"end\": 187.328, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 187.328, \"end\": 187.448, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 187.448, \"end\": 187.468, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}]}, {\"start\": 214.554, \"end\": 238.301, \"text\": \"一就是加班費二就是獎金我就覺得很奇怪啊我們比對起來是這兩項欸你們人緣都一樣欸人緣都一樣欸但是我們比對起來確確實實就是加班費跟獎金的部分是大幅三減\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 214.554, \"end\": 214.834, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 214.834, \"end\": 215.014, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 215.014, \"end\": 215.174, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 215.174, \"end\": 215.374, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 215.374, \"end\": 216.695, 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{\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 221.796, \"end\": 222.296, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 222.296, \"end\": 222.976, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 222.976, \"end\": 224.317, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"欸\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 224.317, \"end\": 224.737, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 224.737, \"end\": 224.897, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"緣\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 224.897, \"end\": 225.077, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 225.077, \"end\": 226.918, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"欸\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 226.918, \"end\": 227.078, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"緣\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 227.078, \"end\": 227.238, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 227.238, \"end\": 228.258, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"欸\"}, 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00:01:08,800\n但是你簡單跟我們報告這個是對院會非常不尊重的用意這點我想等一下備詢的官員通通不要對我們簡單的報告要很真心的很認真的來回答問題如果用簡單的報告那你的意思叫我們也是簡單來審一審喔所以部長這個我是給你建議因為數位部委剛成立不久\n\n4\n00:01:09,727 --> 00:01:27,052\n其實任何編列預算因為今天主席拍這個測程除了詢答之外也要了解你們編列預算整個過程我還是建議我還是建議主計人員隨時要在旁邊部長\n\n5\n00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:56,126\n可能是瞭解大問題但是小細節主計人員如何編應該他會比較熟悉這點我是一個小小的建議來第一個部長我相信啊你管不了這個第一個資安署對於員工編列預算去年跟今年差一千多萬\n\n6\n00:01:58,351 --> 00:02:12,824\n這個原因在哪邊來回答一下我請那個署長報告委員我跟你講人眼一樣一百多人但是這個部分為什麼少一千多萬\n\n7\n00:02:13,769 --> 00:02:41,383\n是,我們其實是配合部的主計的要求那部的主計是說因為徵署的人沒有啦,那一千多萬是什麼啦他是說徵署的員工有些時候常常被外面給挖走嘛所以就是不是always都有人所以部的主計是信我們就是不用滿編這樣子好來,主計的議員來他編這個預算是少了一千多萬\n\n8\n00:02:43,549 --> 00:03:05,548\n跟委員報告那因為人事事案你不要跟我簡單報告認真的報告好不好是謝謝那我們按照他的資安署的編制預算顏額那逐項去逐顏額去算按照他每一位都有他的職等職務類等那第二個就是說我們機關成立了兩年\n\n9\n00:03:05,708 --> 00:03:07,468\n來部長你聽的我告訴你們這裡面就是什麼兩種\n\n10\n00:03:34,554 --> 00:03:58,301\n一就是加班費二就是獎金我就覺得很奇怪啊我們比對起來是這兩項欸你們人緣都一樣欸人緣都一樣欸但是我們比對起來確確實實就是加班費跟獎金的部分是大幅三減\n\n11\n00:03:59,605 --> 00:04:27,847\n我的意思你們當然可以刪減但是我們身為民意代表我相信我們所有的立法委員一定是主張該刪的刪不該刪的不要刪但是不能回了其他單位但是授了所有的員工所以這點部長我坦白跟你講我們發現這一千多萬就是加班會嘛\n\n12\n00:04:29,268 --> 00:04:56,739\n還有一個就是獎金嘛所以我們比對出來是這樣如果你們認為這不是這樣那為什麼今天我會提出這個問題讓部長瞭解你們自己要去看一看你用挪作我們的立場很簡單立法院的立場該用的用不該用的刪但是這些東西是我們職工的加班費跟他的獎金我認為這沒有必要欸\n\n13\n00:04:57,899 --> 00:05:14,962\n為什麼因為這署裡面現在要面臨的挑戰是打詐的問題要不要加班你們只有欸聘僱人員三十幾個編列總共是一百多個人欸要加班欸你都不給他加班費啊你是要叫人家啦\n\n14\n00:05:17,005 --> 00:05:44,596\n這是一個勞務的刻薄所以保定我給你建議這個部分你們好好稍微去調適一下我們不是針對預算是希望你們不要對這些職工對這些公務人員對以加班會跟獎金的苛刻我的理由很簡單保定我是歡迎這個給你啊這個也是代表我們所有的立法委員是有在看你們的預算的\n\n15\n00:05:45,681 --> 00:05:48,262\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算\n\n16\n00:06:00,965 --> 00:06:22,655\n為什麼這個部分我建議部長好好去瞭解一下那個主席好來謝謝委員那也拜託委員能夠支持我們的預算那這個有關於員工的法律義務我們絕對不會去克扣那在執行的時候我們也會請治安署好好地調配\n\n17\n00:06:23,795 --> 00:06:42,823\n主席人員我跟你講我時間有限啦我還有議題啦我要拜託這個部分不要嘴巴這樣講那我抓出來就是你的加班費跟獎金是減少的其他通通沒有減少針對職工跟公務人員的苛刻這一點我們是不贊同的\n\n18\n00:06:43,583 --> 00:07:11,210\n當然你們編列了預算我們只能刪可是這個刪下去怎麼辦呢這個我希望部長你們要亡羊補牢可以受了自己不要受了我們的職工這一點我認為你們以後責任很重大這個部分加班是勢必的因為你們面對這些新的挑戰你們說不加班我才不相信\n\n19\n00:07:12,310 --> 00:07:17,332\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署\n\n20\n00:07:32,779 --> 00:07:48,890\n有沒有被盜用?報告委員沒有但是我請市長做個說明簡單簡單簡單是沒有報告委員我們知道這個消息之後我們就有去查包括我們整個平台發送簡訊的狀況還有請電信業者幫我們查都沒有找到冒用的情況\n\n21\n00:07:49,750 --> 00:08:07,929\n有喔!高雄有一件喔!欸!我們召回在這裡啊!高雄有一件!你們這一件查了怎麼樣?這個刑事檢查局現在在查啦!那他們出...那你說沒有?欸!對!他們出過一個想法...啊!你們太簡單跟我回答了嘛!是那個...是那個可能是偉茂的一個基地台齁?是啦!\n\n22\n00:08:08,249 --> 00:08:34,896\n這就是偽貿嘛那你們不是在宣導111短碼簡訊是政府的東西是不會被騙結果你知道嗎騙的人是用你們111欸下去是詐騙集團連結欸那也沒有關係要查清楚好不好對啦不要黃部長的名字被人家去盜用那這個這個111就是你的招牌欸\n\n23\n00:08:36,096 --> 00:08:37,037\n撞窟供給這個你知道嗎?\n\n24\n00:09:06,704 --> 00:09:07,164\n委員：林國成\n\n25\n00:09:26,870 --> 00:09:27,070\n委員：林國成\n\n26\n00:09:45,177 --> 00:10:11,033\n我希望部長要去責成現在的壯庫供給是最新穎的東西所以拜託不定接下來資安署或什麼東西要全部動員去破解他這些不能讓讓讓最後最後一個就是我們的媒體媒體溢價化\n\n27\n00:10:12,096 --> 00:10:15,508\n媒體議價法到底你們現在因為公聽會我們開過喔\n\n28\n00:10:19,372 --> 00:10:41,827\n你曾經有一段時間也要來跟我溝通這個你能不能現在做的情形簡單二要跟我說明現在做到什麼時候我們現在就是這個需要跨部會協調所以我們現在就是在在行政院不是啦普通我知道啦你跨部會但是你們總是要有一個輪廓嘛那到最後才行政院去跨部會嘛\n\n29\n00:10:42,307 --> 00:11:01,041\n那這個我必須要提醒你這是世界各國未來期數今天不做明天就會後悔所以保證這個我給你建議一下實體下實體下籌劃的如何跟我回報一下好不好讓我們委員會也了解這樣好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2661\t7845\t主席、黃國昌部長、資安署署長、產業署林代理署長\n22455\t39458\t我要特別剛才林佩祥委員在做詢答的時候我建議啊我建議所有要說明的就說明不要簡單跟我們報告因為我們要很認真的來做執行\n40299\t68800\t但是你簡單跟我們報告這個是對院會非常不尊重的用意這點我想等一下備詢的官員通通不要對我們簡單的報告要很真心的很認真的來回答問題如果用簡單的報告那你的意思叫我們也是簡單來審一審喔所以部長這個我是給你建議因為數位部委剛成立不久\n69727\t87052\t其實任何編列預算因為今天主席拍這個測程除了詢答之外也要了解你們編列預算整個過程我還是建議我還是建議主計人員隨時要在旁邊部長\n88240\t116126\t可能是瞭解大問題但是小細節主計人員如何編應該他會比較熟悉這點我是一個小小的建議來第一個部長我相信啊你管不了這個第一個資安署對於員工編列預算去年跟今年差一千多萬\n118351\t132824\t這個原因在哪邊來回答一下我請那個署長報告委員我跟你講人眼一樣一百多人但是這個部分為什麼少一千多萬\n133769\t161383\t是,我們其實是配合部的主計的要求那部的主計是說因為徵署的人沒有啦,那一千多萬是什麼啦他是說徵署的員工有些時候常常被外面給挖走嘛所以就是不是always都有人所以部的主計是信我們就是不用滿編這樣子好來,主計的議員來他編這個預算是少了一千多萬\n163549\t185548\t跟委員報告那因為人事事案你不要跟我簡單報告認真的報告好不好是謝謝那我們按照他的資安署的編制預算顏額那逐項去逐顏額去算按照他每一位都有他的職等職務類等那第二個就是說我們機關成立了兩年\n185708\t187468\t來部長你聽的我告訴你們這裡面就是什麼兩種\n214554\t238301\t一就是加班費二就是獎金我就覺得很奇怪啊我們比對起來是這兩項欸你們人緣都一樣欸人緣都一樣欸但是我們比對起來確確實實就是加班費跟獎金的部分是大幅三減\n239605\t267847\t我的意思你們當然可以刪減但是我們身為民意代表我相信我們所有的立法委員一定是主張該刪的刪不該刪的不要刪但是不能回了其他單位但是授了所有的員工所以這點部長我坦白跟你講我們發現這一千多萬就是加班會嘛\n269268\t296739\t還有一個就是獎金嘛所以我們比對出來是這樣如果你們認為這不是這樣那為什麼今天我會提出這個問題讓部長瞭解你們自己要去看一看你用挪作我們的立場很簡單立法院的立場該用的用不該用的刪但是這些東西是我們職工的加班費跟他的獎金我認為這沒有必要欸\n297899\t314962\t為什麼因為這署裡面現在要面臨的挑戰是打詐的問題要不要加班你們只有欸聘僱人員三十幾個編列總共是一百多個人欸要加班欸你都不給他加班費啊你是要叫人家啦\n317005\t344596\t這是一個勞務的刻薄所以保定我給你建議這個部分你們好好稍微去調適一下我們不是針對預算是希望你們不要對這些職工對這些公務人員對以加班會跟獎金的苛刻我的理由很簡單保定我是歡迎這個給你啊這個也是代表我們所有的立法委員是有在看你們的預算的\n345681\t348262\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算\n360965\t382655\t為什麼這個部分我建議部長好好去瞭解一下那個主席好來謝謝委員那也拜託委員能夠支持我們的預算那這個有關於員工的法律義務我們絕對不會去克扣那在執行的時候我們也會請治安署好好地調配\n383795\t402823\t主席人員我跟你講我時間有限啦我還有議題啦我要拜託這個部分不要嘴巴這樣講那我抓出來就是你的加班費跟獎金是減少的其他通通沒有減少針對職工跟公務人員的苛刻這一點我們是不贊同的\n403583\t431210\t當然你們編列了預算我們只能刪可是這個刪下去怎麼辦呢這個我希望部長你們要亡羊補牢可以受了自己不要受了我們的職工這一點我認為你們以後責任很重大這個部分加班是勢必的因為你們面對這些新的挑戰你們說不加班我才不相信\n432310\t437332\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署\n452779\t468890\t有沒有被盜用?報告委員沒有但是我請市長做個說明簡單簡單簡單是沒有報告委員我們知道這個消息之後我們就有去查包括我們整個平台發送簡訊的狀況還有請電信業者幫我們查都沒有找到冒用的情況\n469750\t487929\t有喔!高雄有一件喔!欸!我們召回在這裡啊!高雄有一件!你們這一件查了怎麼樣?這個刑事檢查局現在在查啦!那他們出...那你說沒有?欸!對!他們出過一個想法...啊!你們太簡單跟我回答了嘛!是那個...是那個可能是偉茂的一個基地台齁?是啦!\n488249\t514896\t這就是偽貿嘛那你們不是在宣導111短碼簡訊是政府的東西是不會被騙結果你知道嗎騙的人是用你們111欸下去是詐騙集團連結欸那也沒有關係要查清楚好不好對啦不要黃部長的名字被人家去盜用那這個這個111就是你的招牌欸\n516096\t517037\t撞窟供給這個你知道嗎?\n546704\t547164\t委員：林國成\n566870\t567070\t委員：林國成\n585177\t611033\t我希望部長要去責成現在的壯庫供給是最新穎的東西所以拜託不定接下來資安署或什麼東西要全部動員去破解他這些不能讓讓讓最後最後一個就是我們的媒體媒體溢價化\n612096\t615508\t媒體議價法到底你們現在因為公聽會我們開過喔\n619372\t641827\t你曾經有一段時間也要來跟我溝通這個你能不能現在做的情形簡單二要跟我說明現在做到什麼時候我們現在就是這個需要跨部會協調所以我們現在就是在在行政院不是啦普通我知道啦你跨部會但是你們總是要有一個輪廓嘛那到最後才行政院去跨部會嘛\n642307\t661041\t那這個我必須要提醒你這是世界各國未來期數今天不做明天就會後悔所以保證這個我給你建議一下實體下實體下籌劃的如何跟我回報一下好不好讓我們委員會也了解這樣好不好好謝謝\n","txt":"主席、黃國昌部長、資安署署長、產業署林代理署長\n我要特別剛才林佩祥委員在做詢答的時候我建議啊我建議所有要說明的就說明不要簡單跟我們報告因為我們要很認真的來做執行\n但是你簡單跟我們報告這個是對院會非常不尊重的用意這點我想等一下備詢的官員通通不要對我們簡單的報告要很真心的很認真的來回答問題如果用簡單的報告那你的意思叫我們也是簡單來審一審喔所以部長這個我是給你建議因為數位部委剛成立不久\n其實任何編列預算因為今天主席拍這個測程除了詢答之外也要了解你們編列預算整個過程我還是建議我還是建議主計人員隨時要在旁邊部長\n可能是瞭解大問題但是小細節主計人員如何編應該他會比較熟悉這點我是一個小小的建議來第一個部長我相信啊你管不了這個第一個資安署對於員工編列預算去年跟今年差一千多萬\n這個原因在哪邊來回答一下我請那個署長報告委員我跟你講人眼一樣一百多人但是這個部分為什麼少一千多萬\n是,我們其實是配合部的主計的要求那部的主計是說因為徵署的人沒有啦,那一千多萬是什麼啦他是說徵署的員工有些時候常常被外面給挖走嘛所以就是不是always都有人所以部的主計是信我們就是不用滿編這樣子好來,主計的議員來他編這個預算是少了一千多萬\n跟委員報告那因為人事事案你不要跟我簡單報告認真的報告好不好是謝謝那我們按照他的資安署的編制預算顏額那逐項去逐顏額去算按照他每一位都有他的職等職務類等那第二個就是說我們機關成立了兩年\n來部長你聽的我告訴你們這裡面就是什麼兩種\n一就是加班費二就是獎金我就覺得很奇怪啊我們比對起來是這兩項欸你們人緣都一樣欸人緣都一樣欸但是我們比對起來確確實實就是加班費跟獎金的部分是大幅三減\n我的意思你們當然可以刪減但是我們身為民意代表我相信我們所有的立法委員一定是主張該刪的刪不該刪的不要刪但是不能回了其他單位但是授了所有的員工所以這點部長我坦白跟你講我們發現這一千多萬就是加班會嘛\n還有一個就是獎金嘛所以我們比對出來是這樣如果你們認為這不是這樣那為什麼今天我會提出這個問題讓部長瞭解你們自己要去看一看你用挪作我們的立場很簡單立法院的立場該用的用不該用的刪但是這些東西是我們職工的加班費跟他的獎金我認為這沒有必要欸\n為什麼因為這署裡面現在要面臨的挑戰是打詐的問題要不要加班你們只有欸聘僱人員三十幾個編列總共是一百多個人欸要加班欸你都不給他加班費啊你是要叫人家啦\n這是一個勞務的刻薄所以保定我給你建議這個部分你們好好稍微去調適一下我們不是針對預算是希望你們不要對這些職工對這些公務人員對以加班會跟獎金的苛刻我的理由很簡單保定我是歡迎這個給你啊這個也是代表我們所有的立法委員是有在看你們的預算的\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算\n為什麼這個部分我建議部長好好去瞭解一下那個主席好來謝謝委員那也拜託委員能夠支持我們的預算那這個有關於員工的法律義務我們絕對不會去克扣那在執行的時候我們也會請治安署好好地調配\n主席人員我跟你講我時間有限啦我還有議題啦我要拜託這個部分不要嘴巴這樣講那我抓出來就是你的加班費跟獎金是減少的其他通通沒有減少針對職工跟公務人員的苛刻這一點我們是不贊同的\n當然你們編列了預算我們只能刪可是這個刪下去怎麼辦呢這個我希望部長你們要亡羊補牢可以受了自己不要受了我們的職工這一點我認為你們以後責任很重大這個部分加班是勢必的因為你們面對這些新的挑戰你們說不加班我才不相信\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署\n有沒有被盜用?報告委員沒有但是我請市長做個說明簡單簡單簡單是沒有報告委員我們知道這個消息之後我們就有去查包括我們整個平台發送簡訊的狀況還有請電信業者幫我們查都沒有找到冒用的情況\n有喔!高雄有一件喔!欸!我們召回在這裡啊!高雄有一件!你們這一件查了怎麼樣?這個刑事檢查局現在在查啦!那他們出...那你說沒有?欸!對!他們出過一個想法...啊!你們太簡單跟我回答了嘛!是那個...是那個可能是偉茂的一個基地台齁?是啦!\n這就是偽貿嘛那你們不是在宣導111短碼簡訊是政府的東西是不會被騙結果你知道嗎騙的人是用你們111欸下去是詐騙集團連結欸那也沒有關係要查清楚好不好對啦不要黃部長的名字被人家去盜用那這個這個111就是你的招牌欸\n撞窟供給這個你知道嗎?\n委員：林國成\n委員：林國成\n我希望部長要去責成現在的壯庫供給是最新穎的東西所以拜託不定接下來資安署或什麼東西要全部動員去破解他這些不能讓讓讓最後最後一個就是我們的媒體媒體溢價化\n媒體議價法到底你們現在因為公聽會我們開過喔\n你曾經有一段時間也要來跟我溝通這個你能不能現在做的情形簡單二要跟我說明現在做到什麼時候我們現在就是這個需要跨部會協調所以我們現在就是在在行政院不是啦普通我知道啦你跨部會但是你們總是要有一個輪廓嘛那到最後才行政院去跨部會嘛\n那這個我必須要提醒你這是世界各國未來期數今天不做明天就會後悔所以保證這個我給你建議一下實體下實體下籌劃的如何跟我回報一下好不好讓我們委員會也了解這樣好不好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.661 --> 00:07.845\n主席、黃國昌部長、資安署署長、產業署林代理署長\n\n00:22.455 --> 00:39.458\n我要特別剛才林佩祥委員在做詢答的時候我建議啊我建議所有要說明的就說明不要簡單跟我們報告因為我們要很認真的來做執行\n\n00:40.299 --> 01:08.800\n但是你簡單跟我們報告這個是對院會非常不尊重的用意這點我想等一下備詢的官員通通不要對我們簡單的報告要很真心的很認真的來回答問題如果用簡單的報告那你的意思叫我們也是簡單來審一審喔所以部長這個我是給你建議因為數位部委剛成立不久\n\n01:09.727 --> 01:27.052\n其實任何編列預算因為今天主席拍這個測程除了詢答之外也要了解你們編列預算整個過程我還是建議我還是建議主計人員隨時要在旁邊部長\n\n01:28.240 --> 01:56.126\n可能是瞭解大問題但是小細節主計人員如何編應該他會比較熟悉這點我是一個小小的建議來第一個部長我相信啊你管不了這個第一個資安署對於員工編列預算去年跟今年差一千多萬\n\n01:58.351 --> 02:12.824\n這個原因在哪邊來回答一下我請那個署長報告委員我跟你講人眼一樣一百多人但是這個部分為什麼少一千多萬\n\n02:13.769 --> 02:41.383\n是,我們其實是配合部的主計的要求那部的主計是說因為徵署的人沒有啦,那一千多萬是什麼啦他是說徵署的員工有些時候常常被外面給挖走嘛所以就是不是always都有人所以部的主計是信我們就是不用滿編這樣子好來,主計的議員來他編這個預算是少了一千多萬\n\n02:43.549 --> 03:05.548\n跟委員報告那因為人事事案你不要跟我簡單報告認真的報告好不好是謝謝那我們按照他的資安署的編制預算顏額那逐項去逐顏額去算按照他每一位都有他的職等職務類等那第二個就是說我們機關成立了兩年\n\n03:05.708 --> 03:07.468\n來部長你聽的我告訴你們這裡面就是什麼兩種\n\n03:34.554 --> 03:58.301\n一就是加班費二就是獎金我就覺得很奇怪啊我們比對起來是這兩項欸你們人緣都一樣欸人緣都一樣欸但是我們比對起來確確實實就是加班費跟獎金的部分是大幅三減\n\n03:59.605 --> 04:27.847\n我的意思你們當然可以刪減但是我們身為民意代表我相信我們所有的立法委員一定是主張該刪的刪不該刪的不要刪但是不能回了其他單位但是授了所有的員工所以這點部長我坦白跟你講我們發現這一千多萬就是加班會嘛\n\n04:29.268 --> 04:56.739\n還有一個就是獎金嘛所以我們比對出來是這樣如果你們認為這不是這樣那為什麼今天我會提出這個問題讓部長瞭解你們自己要去看一看你用挪作我們的立場很簡單立法院的立場該用的用不該用的刪但是這些東西是我們職工的加班費跟他的獎金我認為這沒有必要欸\n\n04:57.899 --> 05:14.962\n為什麼因為這署裡面現在要面臨的挑戰是打詐的問題要不要加班你們只有欸聘僱人員三十幾個編列總共是一百多個人欸要加班欸你都不給他加班費啊你是要叫人家啦\n\n05:17.005 --> 05:44.596\n這是一個勞務的刻薄所以保定我給你建議這個部分你們好好稍微去調適一下我們不是針對預算是希望你們不要對這些職工對這些公務人員對以加班會跟獎金的苛刻我的理由很簡單保定我是歡迎這個給你啊這個也是代表我們所有的立法委員是有在看你們的預算的\n\n05:45.681 --> 05:48.262\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算\n\n06:00.965 --> 06:22.655\n為什麼這個部分我建議部長好好去瞭解一下那個主席好來謝謝委員那也拜託委員能夠支持我們的預算那這個有關於員工的法律義務我們絕對不會去克扣那在執行的時候我們也會請治安署好好地調配\n\n06:23.795 --> 06:42.823\n主席人員我跟你講我時間有限啦我還有議題啦我要拜託這個部分不要嘴巴這樣講那我抓出來就是你的加班費跟獎金是減少的其他通通沒有減少針對職工跟公務人員的苛刻這一點我們是不贊同的\n\n06:43.583 --> 07:11.210\n當然你們編列了預算我們只能刪可是這個刪下去怎麼辦呢這個我希望部長你們要亡羊補牢可以受了自己不要受了我們的職工這一點我認為你們以後責任很重大這個部分加班是勢必的因為你們面對這些新的挑戰你們說不加班我才不相信\n\n07:12.310 --> 07:17.332\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署\n\n07:32.779 --> 07:48.890\n有沒有被盜用?報告委員沒有但是我請市長做個說明簡單簡單簡單是沒有報告委員我們知道這個消息之後我們就有去查包括我們整個平台發送簡訊的狀況還有請電信業者幫我們查都沒有找到冒用的情況\n\n07:49.750 --> 08:07.929\n有喔!高雄有一件喔!欸!我們召回在這裡啊!高雄有一件!你們這一件查了怎麼樣?這個刑事檢查局現在在查啦!那他們出...那你說沒有?欸!對!他們出過一個想法...啊!你們太簡單跟我回答了嘛!是那個...是那個可能是偉茂的一個基地台齁?是啦!\n\n08:08.249 --> 08:34.896\n這就是偽貿嘛那你們不是在宣導111短碼簡訊是政府的東西是不會被騙結果你知道嗎騙的人是用你們111欸下去是詐騙集團連結欸那也沒有關係要查清楚好不好對啦不要黃部長的名字被人家去盜用那這個這個111就是你的招牌欸\n\n08:36.096 --> 08:37.037\n撞窟供給這個你知道嗎?\n\n09:06.704 --> 09:07.164\n委員：林國成\n\n09:26.870 --> 09:27.070\n委員：林國成\n\n09:45.177 --> 10:11.033\n我希望部長要去責成現在的壯庫供給是最新穎的東西所以拜託不定接下來資安署或什麼東西要全部動員去破解他這些不能讓讓讓最後最後一個就是我們的媒體媒體溢價化\n\n10:12.096 --> 10:15.508\n媒體議價法到底你們現在因為公聽會我們開過喔\n\n10:19.372 --> 10:41.827\n你曾經有一段時間也要來跟我溝通這個你能不能現在做的情形簡單二要跟我說明現在做到什麼時候我們現在就是這個需要跨部會協調所以我們現在就是在在行政院不是啦普通我知道啦你跨部會但是你們總是要有一個輪廓嘛那到最後才行政院去跨部會嘛\n\n10:42.307 --> 11:01.041\n那這個我必須要提醒你這是世界各國未來期數今天不做明天就會後悔所以保證這個我給你建議一下實體下實體下籌劃的如何跟我回報一下好不好讓我們委員會也了解這樣好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.661,"end":7.845,"text":"主席、黃國昌部長、資安署署長、產業署林代理署長"},{"start":22.455,"end":39.458,"text":"我要特別剛才林佩祥委員在做詢答的時候我建議啊我建議所有要說明的就說明不要簡單跟我們報告因為我們要很認真的來做執行"},{"start":40.299,"end":68.8,"text":"但是你簡單跟我們報告這個是對院會非常不尊重的用意這點我想等一下備詢的官員通通不要對我們簡單的報告要很真心的很認真的來回答問題如果用簡單的報告那你的意思叫我們也是簡單來審一審喔所以部長這個我是給你建議因為數位部委剛成立不久"},{"start":69.727,"end":87.052,"text":"其實任何編列預算因為今天主席拍這個測程除了詢答之外也要了解你們編列預算整個過程我還是建議我還是建議主計人員隨時要在旁邊部長"},{"start":88.24,"end":116.126,"text":"可能是瞭解大問題但是小細節主計人員如何編應該他會比較熟悉這點我是一個小小的建議來第一個部長我相信啊你管不了這個第一個資安署對於員工編列預算去年跟今年差一千多萬"},{"start":118.351,"end":132.824,"text":"這個原因在哪邊來回答一下我請那個署長報告委員我跟你講人眼一樣一百多人但是這個部分為什麼少一千多萬"},{"start":133.769,"end":161.383,"text":"是,我們其實是配合部的主計的要求那部的主計是說因為徵署的人沒有啦,那一千多萬是什麼啦他是說徵署的員工有些時候常常被外面給挖走嘛所以就是不是always都有人所以部的主計是信我們就是不用滿編這樣子好來,主計的議員來他編這個預算是少了一千多萬"},{"start":163.549,"end":185.548,"text":"跟委員報告那因為人事事案你不要跟我簡單報告認真的報告好不好是謝謝那我們按照他的資安署的編制預算顏額那逐項去逐顏額去算按照他每一位都有他的職等職務類等那第二個就是說我們機關成立了兩年"},{"start":185.708,"end":187.468,"text":"來部長你聽的我告訴你們這裡面就是什麼兩種"},{"start":214.554,"end":238.301,"text":"一就是加班費二就是獎金我就覺得很奇怪啊我們比對起來是這兩項欸你們人緣都一樣欸人緣都一樣欸但是我們比對起來確確實實就是加班費跟獎金的部分是大幅三減"},{"start":239.605,"end":267.847,"text":"我的意思你們當然可以刪減但是我們身為民意代表我相信我們所有的立法委員一定是主張該刪的刪不該刪的不要刪但是不能回了其他單位但是授了所有的員工所以這點部長我坦白跟你講我們發現這一千多萬就是加班會嘛"},{"start":269.268,"end":296.739,"text":"還有一個就是獎金嘛所以我們比對出來是這樣如果你們認為這不是這樣那為什麼今天我會提出這個問題讓部長瞭解你們自己要去看一看你用挪作我們的立場很簡單立法院的立場該用的用不該用的刪但是這些東西是我們職工的加班費跟他的獎金我認為這沒有必要欸"},{"start":297.899,"end":314.962,"text":"為什麼因為這署裡面現在要面臨的挑戰是打詐的問題要不要加班你們只有欸聘僱人員三十幾個編列總共是一百多個人欸要加班欸你都不給他加班費啊你是要叫人家啦"},{"start":317.005,"end":344.596,"text":"這是一個勞務的刻薄所以保定我給你建議這個部分你們好好稍微去調適一下我們不是針對預算是希望你們不要對這些職工對這些公務人員對以加班會跟獎金的苛刻我的理由很簡單保定我是歡迎這個給你啊這個也是代表我們所有的立法委員是有在看你們的預算的"},{"start":345.681,"end":348.262,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":360.965,"end":382.655,"text":"為什麼這個部分我建議部長好好去瞭解一下那個主席好來謝謝委員那也拜託委員能夠支持我們的預算那這個有關於員工的法律義務我們絕對不會去克扣那在執行的時候我們也會請治安署好好地調配"},{"start":383.795,"end":402.823,"text":"主席人員我跟你講我時間有限啦我還有議題啦我要拜託這個部分不要嘴巴這樣講那我抓出來就是你的加班費跟獎金是減少的其他通通沒有減少針對職工跟公務人員的苛刻這一點我們是不贊同的"},{"start":403.583,"end":431.21,"text":"當然你們編列了預算我們只能刪可是這個刪下去怎麼辦呢這個我希望部長你們要亡羊補牢可以受了自己不要受了我們的職工這一點我認為你們以後責任很重大這個部分加班是勢必的因為你們面對這些新的挑戰你們說不加班我才不相信"},{"start":432.31,"end":437.332,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署"},{"start":452.779,"end":468.89,"text":"有沒有被盜用?報告委員沒有但是我請市長做個說明簡單簡單簡單是沒有報告委員我們知道這個消息之後我們就有去查包括我們整個平台發送簡訊的狀況還有請電信業者幫我們查都沒有找到冒用的情況"},{"start":469.75,"end":487.929,"text":"有喔!高雄有一件喔!欸!我們召回在這裡啊!高雄有一件!你們這一件查了怎麼樣?這個刑事檢查局現在在查啦!那他們出...那你說沒有?欸!對!他們出過一個想法...啊!你們太簡單跟我回答了嘛!是那個...是那個可能是偉茂的一個基地台齁?是啦!"},{"start":488.249,"end":514.896,"text":"這就是偽貿嘛那你們不是在宣導111短碼簡訊是政府的東西是不會被騙結果你知道嗎騙的人是用你們111欸下去是詐騙集團連結欸那也沒有關係要查清楚好不好對啦不要黃部長的名字被人家去盜用那這個這個111就是你的招牌欸"},{"start":516.096,"end":517.037,"text":"撞窟供給這個你知道嗎?"},{"start":546.704,"end":547.164,"text":"委員：林國成"},{"start":566.87,"end":567.07,"text":"委員：林國成"},{"start":585.177,"end":611.033,"text":"我希望部長要去責成現在的壯庫供給是最新穎的東西所以拜託不定接下來資安署或什麼東西要全部動員去破解他這些不能讓讓讓最後最後一個就是我們的媒體媒體溢價化"},{"start":612.096,"end":615.508,"text":"媒體議價法到底你們現在因為公聽會我們開過喔"},{"start":619.372,"end":641.827,"text":"你曾經有一段時間也要來跟我溝通這個你能不能現在做的情形簡單二要跟我說明現在做到什麼時候我們現在就是這個需要跨部會協調所以我們現在就是在在行政院不是啦普通我知道啦你跨部會但是你們總是要有一個輪廓嘛那到最後才行政院去跨部會嘛"},{"start":642.307,"end":661.041,"text":"那這個我必須要提醒你這是世界各國未來期數今天不做明天就會後悔所以保證這個我給你建議一下實體下實體下籌劃的如何跟我回報一下好不好讓我們委員會也了解這樣好不好好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":143,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時26分）謝謝主席，請黃部長、資安署署長，還有產業署代理署長。"],["主席：請黃部長、謝署長及林代理署長。"],["黃部長彥男：林委員早。"],["林委員國成：部長，剛才林沛祥委員詢答的時候，我建議所有要說明的就說明，不要簡單跟我們報告，因為我們會很認真的來質詢，但是你簡單跟我們報告，這個是對院會非常不尊重的用語，這點請等一下備詢的官員通通不要對我們簡單的報告，要很真心的、很認真的來回答問題。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員國成：如果用簡單的報告，那你的意思叫我們也是簡單來審一審囉！所以部長，這個我是給你建議，因為數位部也剛成立不久，其實任何預算的編列，今天主席排這個議程，除了詢答之外，也要了解你們編列預算整個過程，我還是建議主計人員隨時要在旁邊，部長可能是了解大問題，但是小細節主計人員如何編應該他會比較熟悉，這點我是一個小小的建議。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。"],["林委員國成：部長，我相信你管不了這個，第一個，資安署對於員工編列預算去年跟今年差一千多萬，這個原因在哪邊？回答一下。"],["黃部長彥男：我請署長。"],["林委員國成：好。"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，其實……"],["林委員國成：我跟你講人員一樣一百多人，但是這個部分為什麼少一千多萬？"],["謝署長翠娟：我們其實是配合部的主計的要求，部的主計是說，因為資安署的人……"],["林委員國成：那一千多萬是什麼？"],["謝署長翠娟：他是說資安署的員工有些時候常常被外面挖走嘛！所以就不是always都有人，因此部的主計請我們不用滿編。"],["林委員國成：主計人員，來，他編這個預算怎麼少了一千多萬？"],["李處長錫東：跟委員報告，因為人事是按……"],["林委員國成：你不要跟我簡單報告，認真的報告好不好？"],["李處長錫東：是，謝謝。我們按照資安署的編制預算員額逐員額去算，按照其每一位都有職務列等。第二個，我們機關成立了兩年多……"],["林委員國成：好啦！我要的是怎麼減這一千多萬的原因何在嘛！我要的是原因啦！"],["李處長錫東：是。就是說在編113年是用滿編算，到114年我們考量它會有一個空窗期，也就是離退人員的空窗期。"],["林委員國成：部長你聽著，我告訴你們，這裡面就是什麼？兩種，一就是加班費，二就是獎金，我就覺得很奇怪，我們比對起來是這兩項，你們人員都一樣，人員都一樣，但是我們比對起來確確實實就是加班費跟獎金的部分是大幅刪減，我的意思是你們當然可以刪減，但是我們身為民意代表，我相信我們所有的立法委員一定是主張該刪的刪，不該刪的不要刪，不能肥了其他單位，但是瘦了所有員工，部長，這點我坦白跟你講，我們發現這一千多萬就是加班費嘛！還有一個就是獎金嘛！所以我們比對出來是這樣，如果你們認為不是這樣，那為什麼今天我會提出這個問題讓部長了解，你們自己要去看一看，我們的立場很簡單，立法院的立場，該用的用、不該用的刪，但是這些是職工的加班費跟他的獎金，我認為這沒有必要，為什麼？因為署裡面現在要面臨的挑戰是打詐的問題，要不要加班？你們只有聘僱人員三十幾個，編列總共是一百多個人，要加班你都不給他加班費，你是要叫他們怎麼辦？這是一個勞務的刻薄。所以部長，我給你建議，這個部分你們好好稍微去調適一下。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員國成：我們不是增列預算，是希望你們不要對這些職工、對這些公務人員，對於加班費跟獎金的苛刻，我的理由很簡單，部長，我是反映這個給你，也是代表我們所有立法委員是有在看你們的預算的，雖然一千多萬我們也可以打pass過去，可是最起碼我們的立場是替所有的公務人員、所有的聘僱人員，他們的加班費、獎金不能少，為什麼？這個部分我建議部長好好去了解一下。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。主計處長再來說明一下。"],["林委員國成：好，來。"],["李處長錫東：謝謝委員。也拜託委員能夠支持我們的預算，有關於員工的法律義務，我們絕對不會去苛扣，在執行的時候，我們也會請資安署好好地調配……"],["林委員國成：主計人員，我跟你講，我時間有限，我還有議題，我要拜託這個部分不要嘴巴這樣講，我抓出來就是你的加班費跟獎金是減少的，其他通通沒有減少，針對職工跟公務人員的苛刻，這一點我們是不贊同的，當然你們編列的預算，我們只能刪，可是這個刪下去怎麼辦呢？我希望部長你們要亡羊補牢，可以瘦了自己，不要瘦了我們的職工，這一點我認為你們以後責任很重大，這個部分加班是勢必的啦！因為你們面對這些新的挑戰，你們說不加班，我才不相信，你們要馬兒跑又不讓馬兒吃草，這個對員工是不公平的，這一點我給部長做一個參考。","主席，不好意思，我還有二個小議題，第一個，111短碼簡訊有沒有被盜用？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，沒有，但是我請司長說明。"],["林委員國成：來，簡單、簡單。"],["黃部長彥男：簡單是沒有。"],["王司長誠明：報告委員，我們知道這個消息之後，我們就有去查，包括整個平臺發送簡訊的狀況，還有請電信業者幫我們查，都沒有遭到冒用的情況。"],["林委員國成：有喔！高雄有一件，我們召委在這裡，高雄有一件，你們這件查了怎麼樣？"],["王司長誠明：這個刑事警察局現在在查啦！他們初步的……"],["林委員國成：你還說沒有？"],["王司長誠明：他們初步的想法是說……"],["林委員國成：你們太簡單跟我回答了嘛！"],["王司長誠明：可能是偽冒的一個基地臺，不是我們這邊的平臺……"],["林委員國成：是啦！就是偽冒嘛！你們不是在宣導111短碼簡訊是政府的東西，不會被騙，結果你知道嗎？騙的人是用你們111，下去是詐騙集團的連結。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，現在懷疑是用偽冒的基地站。"],["林委員國成：那也沒有關係，要查清楚好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：偽冒這樣的影響很有限。"],["林委員國成：對啦！不要黃部長的名字被人家盜用，那這個……"],["黃部長彥男：了解。"],["林委員國成：這個111就是你的招牌耶！"],["黃部長彥男：對，信任……"],["林委員國成：怎麼可以這樣？所以我希望趕快，雖然有一件就有黑數，就有10件、100件、1,000件，他們可以用，以後大家都可以用，所以這點我把問題點出來，希望部長要去重視。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員國成：這個花多少錢我就不追究了。","另外，部長，撞庫攻擊這個你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對，這是資安的問題，這個一定要去處理。"],["林委員國成：是，這個非常嚴重，包括人家有一些平臺裡面的福利，他可以從那個地方去盜取出來，部長，數位部是專門管這個，你們連這些都跟不上時代，我跟你講，就枉費成立了數位部，我們要比他更先進，有這個問題，民意代表跟你們反映以後，我希望部長要去責成。現在撞庫攻擊是最新穎的東西，所以拜託部長，你要讓資安署或什麼單位都全部動員去破解這些，不能讓他……"],["黃部長彥男：會，這個我們會去……"],["林委員國成：最後就是媒體議價法，因為公聽會我們已經開過了，部長，你曾經有一段時間也來跟我溝通這個，現在做的情形你能不能簡單扼要跟我說明？現在做到什麼進度？"],["黃部長彥男：這個需要跨部會協調，所以我們現在就是在行政院……"],["林委員國成：不是啦，部長，我知道啦，你們要跨部會，但你們總是要有一個輪廓嘛，到最後才由行政院去跨部會嘛。這個我必須要提醒你，這是世界各國未來趨勢，今天不做，明天就會後悔，所以部長，我跟你建議一下，籌劃得如何，私底下再跟我回報一下，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員國成：讓我們委員會也了解，這樣好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["林委員國成：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林國成委員。","接下來邀請李昆澤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}}