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{\"word\": \"器\", \"start\": 380.916, \"end\": 381.356, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"裝\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 381.356, \"end\": 382.116, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 382.116, \"end\": 382.437, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 382.437, \"end\": 382.737, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 382.737, \"end\": 382.897, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 382.897, \"end\": 383.037, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 383.037, \"end\": 383.217, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 383.217, \"end\": 383.397, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 383.397, \"end\": 383.857, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 383.857, \"end\": 383.997, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 383.997, \"end\": 384.237, 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{\"word\": \"琳\", \"start\": 477.665, \"end\": 477.785, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 477.785, \"end\": 477.805, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,149 --> 00:00:01,130\n有請顧部長來部長請是洛言好\n\n2\n00:00:12,979 --> 00:00:34,544\n部長早部長我們除了這個國防部年度預算稅出編列書4760億之外呢其實我們還有這個海空戰力提升計劃更新新式的這個戰機的這個採購加起來的特別預算共編列了904億另外呢我們還有非營業特種基金806加起來是6470億元那是佔了114年居\n\n3\n00:00:41,425 --> 00:01:09,061\n的這個預估值26.4兆元之比例大概是2.45%好那像這幾年呢其實我們都有看到就是說我們的這一個國際的友人的一直都有建議說其實我們應該把我們的國防預算預算呢佔GDP比例應該是提升到3%那其實在90年代初期的時候兩岸軍力開始失衡美方就已經這麼\n\n4\n00:01:09,821 --> 00:01:14,944\n這麽來建議了那我們看到這個左邊的圖表我們可以看到說其實這個3%的這個比例呢像過去我們看到的是在貶政府時代曾經有達到這個目標民國93年民國96年97年我們都有看到有這個預算呢有達到這個目標可是這個預算呢送到國會審查之後就遭到這個刪減其實法定預算始終是沒有辦法達標的\n\n5\n00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:45,142\n近年臺海局勢日益緊張,美方和國際智庫還是持續呼籲臺灣應該提高國防預算到GDP佔比的3%以上甚至還有人提到說應該要到5%以上所以我想請問我們的部長在美方和國際盟友的期待之下我們是不是有具體的規劃往3%或是5%的目標來做前景\n\n6\n00:02:09,324 --> 00:02:26,460\n我想這個還是要依我們的這個實際的這個作戰的一個需要那我想我們主要還是著重在四個面向就是建構不對稱戰力然後強化我們的作戰韌性然後也\n\n7\n00:02:27,219 --> 00:02:47,792\n提升我們的後備戰略以及灰色地帶的運輸這四個面向然後根據我們的這個實際的需求那因為臺美雙方過去以來已經有一個制度性的一個軍事交流合作的一個機制那我們通常對於這樣子的一個\n\n8\n00:02:49,893 --> 00:03:14,905\n因為我們籌貨的管道有包括軍購商購跟我們自主的這個生產的那在這個上面有關跟美國軍購的這個部分我們通常都會循這個機制來跟美方進行溝通那溝通之後確認就是說他願意供售那我們再提出來這個我們的相關的這個\n\n9\n00:03:16,767 --> 00:03:25,900\n預算那經過立法院同意之後然後再正式向美方提出那所以如果說在\n\n10\n00:03:27,308 --> 00:03:51,402\n穩健的成長這一件事情我覺得是可以來看得到的因為我們過去這個三年來平均成長都到達8%但是如果你單看GDP的話它有一個問題就是說因為GDP成長的速度也相當的快像如果統計過去如果以三年來講的話GDP成長的比例應該會超過5個%\n\n11\n00:03:54,023 --> 00:04:11,991\n超過5%以上所以如果單以GDP來講的話我們成長平均成長的這個比例要超過GDP成長比例我們8%那GDP成長也許是5啊6啊或者是那但是我們所以\n\n12\n00:04:13,038 --> 00:04:34,010\n我們有沒有辦法趕得上這個GDP的3%這一件事情我覺得還是要根據我們的實際的作戰的一個需要這個我們根據我們的防衛的一個需要來檢視剛剛我講的那個四個重要的一個面向四個要項來做\n\n13\n00:04:36,771 --> 00:05:01,611\n我現在沒有辦法設定一個答案說我們是不是能夠達到3%或者是多少但是我們應該會朝穩健成長的角度來進行那我覺得這一個部分我們會尋這一個現在既有的這個制度化的這個軍事交流合作的機制來跟美方未來的川普政府來做這樣的溝通這樣子\n\n14\n00:05:03,994 --> 00:05:07,097\n會不會到3%就看我們到時候我們實際上的需求嘛\n\n15\n00:05:18,510 --> 00:05:20,370\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分．．．\n\n16\n00:05:42,032 --> 00:05:42,373\n這次本席看到的一個現象\n\n17\n00:05:56,892 --> 00:06:24,377\n那如果看到過去我們不算不看這個總預算的這個這個編列數的話當然看占比我們看到有稍微下降了一點點好那再來還有我們總體的國防預算不斷的攀升其實其中我們還有就是特別預算案可是我們看到特別預算案在115年就要編列來完整如果116年我們有相關的武器裝備要採購的話我們會不會提出新的這個特別預算案\n\n18\n00:06:26,514 --> 00:06:34,744\n現在就是說115年度還有602億的一個特別預算那今年的話應該是904億\n\n19\n00:06:42,116 --> 00:07:00,650\n那所以確實如委員所講的就是說在116年開始沒有這個特別預算的情況之下那我們如果都把它編入年度預算的話那在年度預算的占比確實會提高那會排擠到其他的這個\n\n20\n00:07:01,707 --> 00:07:29,341\n那就是在要就這個整體財政的規劃來看那特別預算的要不要編列的話這個可能如果說國防部有這個規劃還需要大院的支持就是說我們要提出一個特別預算案的話那這個應該也是要經過大院能夠大力支持是說有沒有這樣的一個特別預算案的一個需求存在\n\n21\n00:07:30,081 --> 00:07:56,304\n那特別預算的好處當然就是不至於排擠到這個年度的預算所以我們如果你沒有提出特別預算案的話當然你把它歸入到公務預算當然會排擠到公務預算的所以我現在只能夠說我們沒有辦法去排除由這個特別預算的這個可能性我在這裡能夠表但是我們現在還沒有一個定案的一個規劃這樣子\n\n22\n00:07:57,645 --> 00:07:57,805\n謝謝羅美琳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n149\t1130\t有請顧部長來 部長請是 洛言好\n12979\t34544\t部長早部長我們除了這個國防部年度預算稅出編列書4760億之外呢其實我們還有這個海空戰力提升計劃更新新式的這個戰機的這個採購加起來的特別預算共編列了904億另外呢我們還有非營業特種基金806加起來是6470億元那是佔了114年居\n41425\t69061\t的這個預估值26.4兆元之比例大概是2.45%好那像這幾年呢其實我們都有看到就是說我們的這一個國際的友人的一直都有建議說其實我們應該把我們的國防預算預算呢佔GDP比例應該是提升到3%那其實在90年代初期的時候兩岸軍力開始失衡美方就已經這麼\n69821\t74944\t這麽來建議了那我們看到這個左邊的圖表我們可以看到說其實這個3%的這個比例呢像過去我們看到的是在貶政府時代曾經有達到這個目標民國93年民國96年97年我們都有看到有這個預算呢有達到這個目標可是這個預算呢送到國會審查之後就遭到這個刪減其實法定預算始終是沒有辦法達標的\n99720\t105142\t近年臺海局勢日益緊張,美方和國際智庫還是持續呼籲臺灣應該提高國防預算到GDP佔比的3%以上甚至還有人提到說應該要到5%以上所以我想請問我們的部長在美方和國際盟友的期待之下我們是不是有具體的規劃往3%或是5%的目標來做前景\n129324\t146460\t我想這個還是要依我們的這個實際的這個作戰的一個需要那我想我們主要還是著重在四個面向就是建構不對稱戰力然後強化我們的作戰韌性然後也\n147219\t167792\t提升我們的後備戰略以及灰色地帶的運輸這四個面向然後根據我們的這個實際的需求那因為臺美雙方過去以來已經有一個制度性的一個軍事交流合作的一個機制那我們通常對於這樣子的一個\n169893\t194905\t因為我們籌貨的管道有包括軍購商購跟我們自主的這個生產的那在這個上面有關跟美國軍購的這個部分我們通常都會循這個機制來跟美方進行溝通那溝通之後確認就是說他願意供售那我們再提出來這個我們的相關的這個\n196767\t205900\t預算那經過立法院同意之後然後再正式向美方提出那所以如果說在\n207308\t231402\t穩健的成長這一件事情我覺得是可以來看得到的因為我們過去這個三年來平均成長都到達8%但是如果你單看GDP的話它有一個問題就是說因為GDP成長的速度也相當的快像如果統計過去如果以三年來講的話GDP成長的比例應該會超過5個%\n234023\t251991\t超過5%以上所以如果單以GDP來講的話我們成長平均成長的這個比例要超過GDP成長比例我們8%那GDP成長也許是5啊6啊或者是那但是我們所以\n253038\t274010\t我們有沒有辦法趕得上這個GDP的3%這一件事情我覺得還是要根據我們的實際的作戰的一個需要這個我們根據我們的防衛的一個需要來檢視剛剛我講的那個四個重要的一個面向四個要項來做\n276771\t301611\t我現在沒有辦法設定一個答案說我們是不是能夠達到3%或者是多少但是我們應該會朝穩健成長的角度來進行那我覺得這一個部分我們會尋這一個現在既有的這個制度化的這個軍事交流合作的機制來跟美方未來的川普政府來做這樣的溝通這樣子\n303994\t307097\t會不會到3%就看我們到時候我們實際上的需求嘛\n318510\t320370\t一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分．．．\n342032\t342373\t這次本席看到的一個現象\n356892\t384377\t那如果看到過去我們不算不看這個總預算的這個這個編列數的話當然看占比我們看到有稍微下降了一點點好那再來還有我們總體的國防預算不斷的攀升其實其中我們還有就是特別預算案可是我們看到特別預算案在115年就要編列來完整如果116年我們有相關的武器裝備要採購的話我們會不會提出新的這個特別預算案\n386514\t394744\t現在就是說115年度還有602億的一個特別預算那今年的話應該是904億\n402116\t420650\t那所以確實如委員所講的就是說在116年開始沒有這個特別預算的情況之下那我們如果都把它編入年度預算的話那在年度預算的占比確實會提高那會排擠到其他的這個\n421707\t449341\t那就是在要就這個整體財政的規劃來看那特別預算的要不要編列的話這個可能如果說國防部有這個規劃還需要大院的支持就是說我們要提出一個特別預算案的話那這個應該也是要經過大院能夠大力支持是說有沒有這樣的一個特別預算案的一個需求存在\n450081\t476304\t那特別預算的好處當然就是不至於排擠到這個年度的預算所以我們如果你沒有提出特別預算案的話當然你把它歸入到公務預算當然會排擠到公務預算的所以我現在只能夠說我們沒有辦法去排除由這個特別預算的這個可能性我在這裡能夠表但是我們現在還沒有一個定案的一個規劃這樣子\n477645\t477805\t謝謝羅美琳委員\n","txt":"有請顧部長來 部長請是 洛言好\n部長早部長我們除了這個國防部年度預算稅出編列書4760億之外呢其實我們還有這個海空戰力提升計劃更新新式的這個戰機的這個採購加起來的特別預算共編列了904億另外呢我們還有非營業特種基金806加起來是6470億元那是佔了114年居\n的這個預估值26.4兆元之比例大概是2.45%好那像這幾年呢其實我們都有看到就是說我們的這一個國際的友人的一直都有建議說其實我們應該把我們的國防預算預算呢佔GDP比例應該是提升到3%那其實在90年代初期的時候兩岸軍力開始失衡美方就已經這麼\n這麽來建議了那我們看到這個左邊的圖表我們可以看到說其實這個3%的這個比例呢像過去我們看到的是在貶政府時代曾經有達到這個目標民國93年民國96年97年我們都有看到有這個預算呢有達到這個目標可是這個預算呢送到國會審查之後就遭到這個刪減其實法定預算始終是沒有辦法達標的\n近年臺海局勢日益緊張,美方和國際智庫還是持續呼籲臺灣應該提高國防預算到GDP佔比的3%以上甚至還有人提到說應該要到5%以上所以我想請問我們的部長在美方和國際盟友的期待之下我們是不是有具體的規劃往3%或是5%的目標來做前景\n我想這個還是要依我們的這個實際的這個作戰的一個需要那我想我們主要還是著重在四個面向就是建構不對稱戰力然後強化我們的作戰韌性然後也\n提升我們的後備戰略以及灰色地帶的運輸這四個面向然後根據我們的這個實際的需求那因為臺美雙方過去以來已經有一個制度性的一個軍事交流合作的一個機制那我們通常對於這樣子的一個\n因為我們籌貨的管道有包括軍購商購跟我們自主的這個生產的那在這個上面有關跟美國軍購的這個部分我們通常都會循這個機制來跟美方進行溝通那溝通之後確認就是說他願意供售那我們再提出來這個我們的相關的這個\n預算那經過立法院同意之後然後再正式向美方提出那所以如果說在\n穩健的成長這一件事情我覺得是可以來看得到的因為我們過去這個三年來平均成長都到達8%但是如果你單看GDP的話它有一個問題就是說因為GDP成長的速度也相當的快像如果統計過去如果以三年來講的話GDP成長的比例應該會超過5個%\n超過5%以上所以如果單以GDP來講的話我們成長平均成長的這個比例要超過GDP成長比例我們8%那GDP成長也許是5啊6啊或者是那但是我們所以\n我們有沒有辦法趕得上這個GDP的3%這一件事情我覺得還是要根據我們的實際的作戰的一個需要這個我們根據我們的防衛的一個需要來檢視剛剛我講的那個四個重要的一個面向四個要項來做\n我現在沒有辦法設定一個答案說我們是不是能夠達到3%或者是多少但是我們應該會朝穩健成長的角度來進行那我覺得這一個部分我們會尋這一個現在既有的這個制度化的這個軍事交流合作的機制來跟美方未來的川普政府來做這樣的溝通這樣子\n會不會到3%就看我們到時候我們實際上的需求嘛\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分．．．\n這次本席看到的一個現象\n那如果看到過去我們不算不看這個總預算的這個這個編列數的話當然看占比我們看到有稍微下降了一點點好那再來還有我們總體的國防預算不斷的攀升其實其中我們還有就是特別預算案可是我們看到特別預算案在115年就要編列來完整如果116年我們有相關的武器裝備要採購的話我們會不會提出新的這個特別預算案\n現在就是說115年度還有602億的一個特別預算那今年的話應該是904億\n那所以確實如委員所講的就是說在116年開始沒有這個特別預算的情況之下那我們如果都把它編入年度預算的話那在年度預算的占比確實會提高那會排擠到其他的這個\n那就是在要就這個整體財政的規劃來看那特別預算的要不要編列的話這個可能如果說國防部有這個規劃還需要大院的支持就是說我們要提出一個特別預算案的話那這個應該也是要經過大院能夠大力支持是說有沒有這樣的一個特別預算案的一個需求存在\n那特別預算的好處當然就是不至於排擠到這個年度的預算所以我們如果你沒有提出特別預算案的話當然你把它歸入到公務預算當然會排擠到公務預算的所以我現在只能夠說我們沒有辦法去排除由這個特別預算的這個可能性我在這裡能夠表但是我們現在還沒有一個定案的一個規劃這樣子\n謝謝羅美琳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.149 --> 00:01.130\n有請顧部長來部長請是洛言好\n\n00:12.979 --> 00:34.544\n部長早部長我們除了這個國防部年度預算稅出編列書4760億之外呢其實我們還有這個海空戰力提升計劃更新新式的這個戰機的這個採購加起來的特別預算共編列了904億另外呢我們還有非營業特種基金806加起來是6470億元那是佔了114年居\n\n00:41.425 --> 01:09.061\n的這個預估值26.4兆元之比例大概是2.45%好那像這幾年呢其實我們都有看到就是說我們的這一個國際的友人的一直都有建議說其實我們應該把我們的國防預算預算呢佔GDP比例應該是提升到3%那其實在90年代初期的時候兩岸軍力開始失衡美方就已經這麼\n\n01:09.821 --> 01:14.944\n這麽來建議了那我們看到這個左邊的圖表我們可以看到說其實這個3%的這個比例呢像過去我們看到的是在貶政府時代曾經有達到這個目標民國93年民國96年97年我們都有看到有這個預算呢有達到這個目標可是這個預算呢送到國會審查之後就遭到這個刪減其實法定預算始終是沒有辦法達標的\n\n01:39.720 --> 01:45.142\n近年臺海局勢日益緊張,美方和國際智庫還是持續呼籲臺灣應該提高國防預算到GDP佔比的3%以上甚至還有人提到說應該要到5%以上所以我想請問我們的部長在美方和國際盟友的期待之下我們是不是有具體的規劃往3%或是5%的目標來做前景\n\n02:09.324 --> 02:26.460\n我想這個還是要依我們的這個實際的這個作戰的一個需要那我想我們主要還是著重在四個面向就是建構不對稱戰力然後強化我們的作戰韌性然後也\n\n02:27.219 --> 02:47.792\n提升我們的後備戰略以及灰色地帶的運輸這四個面向然後根據我們的這個實際的需求那因為臺美雙方過去以來已經有一個制度性的一個軍事交流合作的一個機制那我們通常對於這樣子的一個\n\n02:49.893 --> 03:14.905\n因為我們籌貨的管道有包括軍購商購跟我們自主的這個生產的那在這個上面有關跟美國軍購的這個部分我們通常都會循這個機制來跟美方進行溝通那溝通之後確認就是說他願意供售那我們再提出來這個我們的相關的這個\n\n03:16.767 --> 03:25.900\n預算那經過立法院同意之後然後再正式向美方提出那所以如果說在\n\n03:27.308 --> 03:51.402\n穩健的成長這一件事情我覺得是可以來看得到的因為我們過去這個三年來平均成長都到達8%但是如果你單看GDP的話它有一個問題就是說因為GDP成長的速度也相當的快像如果統計過去如果以三年來講的話GDP成長的比例應該會超過5個%\n\n03:54.023 --> 04:11.991\n超過5%以上所以如果單以GDP來講的話我們成長平均成長的這個比例要超過GDP成長比例我們8%那GDP成長也許是5啊6啊或者是那但是我們所以\n\n04:13.038 --> 04:34.010\n我們有沒有辦法趕得上這個GDP的3%這一件事情我覺得還是要根據我們的實際的作戰的一個需要這個我們根據我們的防衛的一個需要來檢視剛剛我講的那個四個重要的一個面向四個要項來做\n\n04:36.771 --> 05:01.611\n我現在沒有辦法設定一個答案說我們是不是能夠達到3%或者是多少但是我們應該會朝穩健成長的角度來進行那我覺得這一個部分我們會尋這一個現在既有的這個制度化的這個軍事交流合作的機制來跟美方未來的川普政府來做這樣的溝通這樣子\n\n05:03.994 --> 05:07.097\n會不會到3%就看我們到時候我們實際上的需求嘛\n\n05:18.510 --> 05:20.370\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分．．．\n\n05:42.032 --> 05:42.373\n這次本席看到的一個現象\n\n05:56.892 --> 06:24.377\n那如果看到過去我們不算不看這個總預算的這個這個編列數的話當然看占比我們看到有稍微下降了一點點好那再來還有我們總體的國防預算不斷的攀升其實其中我們還有就是特別預算案可是我們看到特別預算案在115年就要編列來完整如果116年我們有相關的武器裝備要採購的話我們會不會提出新的這個特別預算案\n\n06:26.514 --> 06:34.744\n現在就是說115年度還有602億的一個特別預算那今年的話應該是904億\n\n06:42.116 --> 07:00.650\n那所以確實如委員所講的就是說在116年開始沒有這個特別預算的情況之下那我們如果都把它編入年度預算的話那在年度預算的占比確實會提高那會排擠到其他的這個\n\n07:01.707 --> 07:29.341\n那就是在要就這個整體財政的規劃來看那特別預算的要不要編列的話這個可能如果說國防部有這個規劃還需要大院的支持就是說我們要提出一個特別預算案的話那這個應該也是要經過大院能夠大力支持是說有沒有這樣的一個特別預算案的一個需求存在\n\n07:30.081 --> 07:56.304\n那特別預算的好處當然就是不至於排擠到這個年度的預算所以我們如果你沒有提出特別預算案的話當然你把它歸入到公務預算當然會排擠到公務預算的所以我現在只能夠說我們沒有辦法去排除由這個特別預算的這個可能性我在這裡能夠表但是我們現在還沒有一個定案的一個規劃這樣子\n\n07:57.645 --> 07:57.805\n謝謝羅美琳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.149,"end":1.13,"text":"有請顧部長來 部長請是 洛言好"},{"start":12.979,"end":34.544,"text":"部長早部長我們除了這個國防部年度預算稅出編列書4760億之外呢其實我們還有這個海空戰力提升計劃更新新式的這個戰機的這個採購加起來的特別預算共編列了904億另外呢我們還有非營業特種基金806加起來是6470億元那是佔了114年居"},{"start":41.425,"end":69.061,"text":"的這個預估值26.4兆元之比例大概是2.45%好那像這幾年呢其實我們都有看到就是說我們的這一個國際的友人的一直都有建議說其實我們應該把我們的國防預算預算呢佔GDP比例應該是提升到3%那其實在90年代初期的時候兩岸軍力開始失衡美方就已經這麼"},{"start":69.821,"end":74.944,"text":"這麽來建議了那我們看到這個左邊的圖表我們可以看到說其實這個3%的這個比例呢像過去我們看到的是在貶政府時代曾經有達到這個目標民國93年民國96年97年我們都有看到有這個預算呢有達到這個目標可是這個預算呢送到國會審查之後就遭到這個刪減其實法定預算始終是沒有辦法達標的"},{"start":99.72,"end":105.142,"text":"近年臺海局勢日益緊張,美方和國際智庫還是持續呼籲臺灣應該提高國防預算到GDP佔比的3%以上甚至還有人提到說應該要到5%以上所以我想請問我們的部長在美方和國際盟友的期待之下我們是不是有具體的規劃往3%或是5%的目標來做前景"},{"start":129.324,"end":146.46,"text":"我想這個還是要依我們的這個實際的這個作戰的一個需要那我想我們主要還是著重在四個面向就是建構不對稱戰力然後強化我們的作戰韌性然後也"},{"start":147.219,"end":167.792,"text":"提升我們的後備戰略以及灰色地帶的運輸這四個面向然後根據我們的這個實際的需求那因為臺美雙方過去以來已經有一個制度性的一個軍事交流合作的一個機制那我們通常對於這樣子的一個"},{"start":169.893,"end":194.905,"text":"因為我們籌貨的管道有包括軍購商購跟我們自主的這個生產的那在這個上面有關跟美國軍購的這個部分我們通常都會循這個機制來跟美方進行溝通那溝通之後確認就是說他願意供售那我們再提出來這個我們的相關的這個"},{"start":196.767,"end":205.9,"text":"預算那經過立法院同意之後然後再正式向美方提出那所以如果說在"},{"start":207.308,"end":231.402,"text":"穩健的成長這一件事情我覺得是可以來看得到的因為我們過去這個三年來平均成長都到達8%但是如果你單看GDP的話它有一個問題就是說因為GDP成長的速度也相當的快像如果統計過去如果以三年來講的話GDP成長的比例應該會超過5個%"},{"start":234.023,"end":251.991,"text":"超過5%以上所以如果單以GDP來講的話我們成長平均成長的這個比例要超過GDP成長比例我們8%那GDP成長也許是5啊6啊或者是那但是我們所以"},{"start":253.038,"end":274.01,"text":"我們有沒有辦法趕得上這個GDP的3%這一件事情我覺得還是要根據我們的實際的作戰的一個需要這個我們根據我們的防衛的一個需要來檢視剛剛我講的那個四個重要的一個面向四個要項來做"},{"start":276.771,"end":301.611,"text":"我現在沒有辦法設定一個答案說我們是不是能夠達到3%或者是多少但是我們應該會朝穩健成長的角度來進行那我覺得這一個部分我們會尋這一個現在既有的這個制度化的這個軍事交流合作的機制來跟美方未來的川普政府來做這樣的溝通這樣子"},{"start":303.994,"end":307.097,"text":"會不會到3%就看我們到時候我們實際上的需求嘛"},{"start":318.51,"end":320.37,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分．．．"},{"start":342.032,"end":342.373,"text":"這次本席看到的一個現象"},{"start":356.892,"end":384.377,"text":"那如果看到過去我們不算不看這個總預算的這個這個編列數的話當然看占比我們看到有稍微下降了一點點好那再來還有我們總體的國防預算不斷的攀升其實其中我們還有就是特別預算案可是我們看到特別預算案在115年就要編列來完整如果116年我們有相關的武器裝備要採購的話我們會不會提出新的這個特別預算案"},{"start":386.514,"end":394.744,"text":"現在就是說115年度還有602億的一個特別預算那今年的話應該是904億"},{"start":402.116,"end":420.65,"text":"那所以確實如委員所講的就是說在116年開始沒有這個特別預算的情況之下那我們如果都把它編入年度預算的話那在年度預算的占比確實會提高那會排擠到其他的這個"},{"start":421.707,"end":449.341,"text":"那就是在要就這個整體財政的規劃來看那特別預算的要不要編列的話這個可能如果說國防部有這個規劃還需要大院的支持就是說我們要提出一個特別預算案的話那這個應該也是要經過大院能夠大力支持是說有沒有這樣的一個特別預算案的一個需求存在"},{"start":450.081,"end":476.304,"text":"那特別預算的好處當然就是不至於排擠到這個年度的預算所以我們如果你沒有提出特別預算案的話當然你把它歸入到公務預算當然會排擠到公務預算的所以我現在只能夠說我們沒有辦法去排除由這個特別預算的這個可能性我在這裡能夠表但是我們現在還沒有一個定案的一個規劃這樣子"},{"start":477.645,"end":477.805,"text":"謝謝羅美琳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":251,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（10時6分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：是，羅委員。"],["羅委員美玲：部長早。部長，國防部除了年度預算歲出編列4,760億之外，其實我們還有海空戰力提升計畫跟新式戰機採購加起來的特別預算，共編列了904億，另外還有非營業特種基金806億，加起來是6,470億元，是占了114年GDP預估值26.4兆元的比例，大概是2.45%。像這幾年，其實我們的國際友人一直都有建議國防預算占GDP比例應該提升到3%，其實在九十年代初期的時候，兩岸軍力開始失衡，美方就已經這麼建議了，我們可以看到左邊的圖表，其實3%這個比例在過去扁政府時代曾經有達到這個目標，民國93年、96年、97年，我們都有看到預算有達到這個目標，可是預算送到國會審查之後就遭到刪減，其實法定預算始終是沒有辦法達標的。而近年臺海局勢日益緊張，美方跟國際的智庫還是持續的呼籲，臺灣應該要提高國防預算到GDP占比的3%以上，甚至還有人提到說應該要到5%以上。所以我想請問部長，在美方跟國際盟友的期待之下，我們是不是有具體規劃要往3%或是5%的目標來前進？"],["顧部長立雄：我想這個還是要依我們實際的作戰需要，我們主要還是著重在四個面向：建構不對稱戰力，強化我們的作戰韌性，也提升我們的後備戰力，以及灰色地帶的應處這四個面向，然後根據我們實際的需求。因為臺美雙方過去以來已經有一個制度性的軍事交流合作機制，通常對於這樣子的狀態，因為我們籌獲的管道有包括軍購、商購跟我們自主的生產，在這上面有關美國軍購的部分，我們通常都會循機制來跟美方進行溝通，溝通之後確認他願意供售，我們再提出相關的預算，經過立法院同意之後，再正式向美方提出。","所以說到穩健成長這一件事情，我覺得是可以看得到的，因為我們過去這三年來，平均成長都到達8%，但是如果你單看GDP的話，它有一個問題，因為GDP成長的速度也相當的快，如果以統計過去三年來講，GDP成長的比例應該會超過5%以上，所以如果單以GDP來講，預算平均成長的比例要超過GDP的成長比例，我們有8%，GDP的成長比例也許是5%或6%，所以我們的預算有沒有辦法趕得上GDP占比3%這一件事情，我覺得還是要根據我們實際的作戰需要、根據防衛的需要，來檢視剛剛我講的那四個重要的面向、四個要項來做。我現在沒有辦法設定一個答案說我們是不是能夠達到3%或者是多少，但是我們應該會朝著穩健成長的角度來進行。這一個部分我們會循現在既有的制度化軍事交流合作的機制來跟美方──未來的川普政府做這樣的溝通。"],["羅委員美玲：OK！部長是說看我們實際上的需求來編列，再來就是還是會朝穩定成長這個目標來前進，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["羅委員美玲：會不會到3%就看到時候我們實際上的需求。再來，還有一點，本席有看到這次我們中央政府總預算案的歲出是在提升，國防預算編列也是創了新高，可是我們來看左邊這個圖，可以看到雖然國防預算編列是創新高，可是在預算占比方面其實還是有稍微下降了一點點，部長，你有看到，比起去年，我們占中央政府總預算案有到15.3%，但這次只有15.2%，稍稍往下降了一點點。這是本席看到的一個現象。如果看過去，我們不看總預算的編列數，單看占比，有稍微下降了一點點。再來還有總體的國防預算不斷地攀升，其中還有特別預算案，可是我們看到特別預算案在115年就要編列完竣，如果116年有相關的武器裝備要採購的話，我們會不會提出新的特別預算？"],["顧部長立雄：現在就是115年度還有602億的特別預算，今年的話應該是904億……"],["羅委員美玲：我看一下，904億，對。"],["顧部長立雄：所以確實如委員所講的，在116年開始沒有特別預算的情況之下，我們如果都把它編入年度預算的話，年度預算的占比確實會提高。"],["羅委員美玲：會排擠到其他的……"],["顧部長立雄：那就是要就整體財政的規劃來看，至於特別預算要不要編列，如果說國防部有這個規劃，還需要大院的支持，就是我們要提出一個特別預算案的話，應該也是要經過大院能夠大力支持，看是否有這樣一個特別預算案的需求存在，特別預算的好處當然就是不至於排擠到年度的預算，所以我們……"],["羅委員美玲：如果你沒有提出特別預算案的話，你把它歸入到公務預算，當然會排擠到公務預算的編列。"],["顧部長立雄：所以我現在只能夠說我們沒有辦法去排除特別預算的可能性，是我在這裡能夠表達的，但是我們現在還沒有一個定案的規劃。"],["羅委員美玲：OK！如果到時有需求的話，其實還是會提出，也希望得到朝野的支持，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：因為主要還是要大院能夠支持這樣子一個特別預算案的提出，而特別預算案提出，我想應該也要有一定的規劃，即一個詳細的規劃才能夠得到大院的支持。"],["羅委員美玲：OK！因為時間的關係，本席還有其他的問題，就留待我們審預算的時候再來提問，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅美玲委員，各位請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是陳永康委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}}