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00:01:17,413\n第一個這個案子主辦機關是臺北國稅局然後由他們主辦國稅局還是在你財政部底下嘛所以如果因為你目前所提供給我的報告部長我個人是不滿意因為有幾個重要的資訊你沒有在這個報告檢討報告裡面跟我們說明清楚包括就是說中獎人的權重同時歸零或者是持續的加重\n\n4\n00:01:18,786 --> 00:01:24,070\n沒有說明清楚然後另外這家廠商是第一次跟我們合作嗎按照道理說我們都應該希望是所有的人每一次的活動他的獲獎的機率是均等的\n\n5\n00:01:39,505 --> 00:01:55,516\n做這樣子的權重的就是說讓大家外界我相信你也百思不得其解所以這個廠商這樣的作為是讓外界都覺得說這一次雲端發票爭議這麼多最主要的原因所以我才問說這一家廠商是第一次跟你們財政部合作嗎\n\n6\n00:01:56,906 --> 00:02:19,014\n第一家廠商是不是跟台北國稅局是不是第一次跟局長是說跟台北國稅局是第二次合作那這是哪一家廠商廠商名字是什麼合約的內容可不可以公佈我時間不多因為我今天好幾個議題要問提供就是我們公開招標的資料我知道是公開招標的\n\n7\n00:02:20,580 --> 00:02:43,254\n我要求今天執行完之後請你們提供跟這個廠商所有的會議記錄包括當時的權重是歸零或者是累積持續加重他有沒有跟你們溝通清楚他決定要這麼做我覺得是有問題但他決定這麼做他後面怎麼執行合約裡面有沒有寫我覺得你們都要交代清楚光是發挖一個\n\n8\n00:02:44,255 --> 00:03:01,033\n不算大這是算小案子你都要檢調去調查要檢調幫你調查那到底我們能不能信任你們發包單位啊這個就是我今天提出來的疑問接下來我覺得這是你們要交代清楚行政責任跟企業的問題請你們公開另外一個就是有關車輛貨物稅的爭議\n\n9\n00:03:06,699 --> 00:03:10,281\n車輛貨物稅的爭議最近我們接到幾個陳情案就是有關民眾申請貨物稅退稅的案子貨物稅的退稅它也是經過合法車輛買了進口車之後一進來之後沒有使用又要再轉賣出去所以按照法規它是可以申請退稅\n\n10\n00:03:28,254 --> 00:03:38,719\n那這個部分你們現在的說法是說因為現在行政院的有一個案例的判決所以你們要再重新解釋含釋我要請問這是複稅署對不對\n\n11\n00:03:42,711 --> 00:04:05,098\n賴慧淑的部分對這個案子你們現在的處理模式是什麼是不是由署長跟您說明署長簡單回應我好不好報告委員因為最高行政法有一個判決我們現在是參酌判決議址還有徵詢學者的意見目前在審慎演繹當中但你們已經在重新擬定新的函式對但是按照法規\n\n12\n00:04:06,418 --> 00:04:30,164\n如果即便你們在處理新的函式按照這個稅捐基深法當中即便有函式因為其他的申請案已經進來要申請退稅的案子已經進來他可以按照法規你們可以按照函式你們可以他們可以你們自然可以有利於納稅義務人對於還沒有核課稅的案子他是可以適用的但是你們把所有案子hold在這邊\n\n13\n00:04:31,144 --> 00:04:56,018\n我覺得你們在行政上就是有問題我尊重你們後面要用什麼樣新的函式部長我相信你非常清楚我的意思法院的判決歸法院的判決它是針對個案但是現有新的已經有案子曾進來要申請退退你就應該按照現有的函式來處理你不應該把人家後在那邊我尊重你後面要做新的函式我都尊重\n\n14\n00:04:57,489 --> 00:05:16,986\n你依法行政現在的法是什麼你就要按照這個法來執行這是我要提醒你的地方好你可以請回第三個部長我回過頭來請教你台灣今年的問題部長台灣今年這件事情在我們看來在用人上是有很大的問題三天就下台\n\n15\n00:05:18,187 --> 00:05:30,615\n這件事情是換掉呂俊吉由呂政章出任這件事情是總統交辦的行政院長還是部長你自己決定的\n\n16\n00:05:32,969 --> 00:05:48,479\n對於有關相關的投資事業裡面的董總的一個人事調整都是全面性的一個去思考量做一個考量那這個部分大家都會一起做討論好所以大家都會一起做討論這個一起做討論的人有沒有包含院長或總統還是你決定的你說一起是在你底下還是你以上\n\n17\n00:05:57,145 --> 00:06:04,753\n呃跟委員報告齁這個當然這個財政部所屬的這個部分這個是要由行政院核定的喔所以有行政院這個角色在裡頭齁所以決定要策劃掉合併的機關是行政院對好所以呃\n\n18\n00:06:11,941 --> 00:06:27,528\n這件事情當時要撤換就是說決定換掉這個施董事長你也有呈報上去要換掉呂政章你也有呈報上去要撤換掉你也有呈報上去案子當然是要由城市部來簽辦上去對\n\n19\n00:06:30,029 --> 00:06:41,996\n所以這整件事情如果是行政院決定的話那我要請問部長你自己到底有沒有見過呂正章本人之前在決定要策劃要請他上任的時候你有沒有見過他本人對於這個相關的人選我們都會從他的相關資歷裡面你只有看過他的資歷你沒有跟他談過都要去做一些了解\n\n20\n00:06:52,561 --> 00:07:17,986\n所以你也不認識他你之前也不認識他我不認識這個人你沒有看過他所以你只有看過他的經歷我不可能從我認識的裡面的人來找我知道但是你決定要用他我們認為都應該用他做事例每個人算即便你要請署長就哪一位署長你一定會見一見聊一聊這是基本的程序ABC所以你也沒看過你只有從經歷上看過這個人\n\n21\n00:07:19,026 --> 00:07:43,783\n瞭解這個人的一些經歷以及他在過往的一些事業裡面的一些辦理的情形對好那個部長那最後呂政章他最後辭職的時候他放話說台灣的政治遠比國際商業複雜你有這樣的感覺嗎我覺得這是他個人的意見啊個人的意見是所以完全沒有政治因素\n\n22\n00:07:45,389 --> 00:08:12,756\n呃他個人要辭職我們當然就尊重因為他可能覺得對行政團隊造成的一些困擾他就覺得因避免這樣的一個情形所以他就請辭那我們也尊重他的選擇好部長我還是提醒你未來所有人事任用齁其實不能只看這個一張紙ABC啦所以我覺得還是從這一次的教訓跟經驗我覺得每一個人事任務我覺得還是要找過來進來談哪怕是我們辦公室要找一個新的助理我們都還是會聊一聊談一談嘛\n\n23\n00:08:13,656 --> 00:08:18,299\n這是我要提醒部長的地方部長因為我今天還有另外一個議題也非常重要因為我只剩下最後兩分鐘的時間部長那個我們今年度的這個預算稅收到前10個月已經達到3,951億元比去年的同期已經增加了9%已經全年已經達到全年的目標這個數字呢已經達到全年預算數的101.9%今年的\n\n24\n00:08:43,553 --> 00:08:44,293\n財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員\n\n25\n00:09:03,043 --> 00:09:04,664\n稅收的狀況比預期的樂觀背後代表了有幾個重要的意義在我稍微念一下2021年是4327億元稅收超徵20225237億、2023367億元部長\n\n26\n00:09:21,296 --> 00:09:44,834\n這個數字背後代表的意義是你之前來到我辦公室甚至你在委員會說連續三年的稅收招徵我們要成立專家小組會議這個代表我們在編列預算以後不會再超這麼多你上個月十月份的時候才說最多是一千億保守的估計超過一千億這是保守的估計現在這個數字是相差了四倍耶\n\n27\n00:09:45,755 --> 00:09:54,468\n四千億耶部長我說你失職應該不為過要不然就是你預判失準要不然就是我們稅制有問題不是你的失職要不然就是我們稅制的有問題部長我已經很客氣的這樣子講了\n\n28\n00:10:01,536 --> 00:10:23,353\n不然你了解我意思嗎?因為你一直說你要成立這個小組我們以後預估不會那麼離譜、不會失準這麼多差四倍!跟委員報告這個部分第一個我們確實有成立小組然後我們也做了精進但是你知道有些稅不是我們一開始就可以譬如說證交稅證交稅1、1、3年我們是以3500億的日均量來評估當時在去年的時候委員都認為說我們怎麼可以別3500億股市的狀況你會問金管會就知道\n\n29\n00:10:30,819 --> 00:10:39,181\n陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�\n\n30\n00:10:52,045 --> 00:11:04,709\n陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�\n\n31\n00:11:11,411 --> 00:11:29,998\n沒有效果這段民意代表立場我們的功能我沒有要罵你但我們的功能就是監督所以我告訴你這件事情你仍舊沒有做好那有兩個原因我們稅制有問題那如果不是稅制有問題那就可能是你的失職你審議三家小組沒有用\n\n32\n00:11:30,658 --> 00:11:35,000\n那未來要怎麼處理你必須要給我答案這是我今天的質詢我們持續精進我們的估測謝謝部長謝謝謝謝燕修接著請李昆城委員質詢那本席在這裡報告到陳一貞委員陳一貞委員質詢完畢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5145\t7447\t好請部長好陳部長部長我還是要先延續一下顏寬恆委員的議題這個雲端發票這件事情因為最近財政部的新聞不算少算非常的多雲端發票這整件事情我覺得活動本身我們是支持的鼓勵雲端發票但整件事情我覺得爭議最大的\n29366\t52029\t是廠商自行協調你說廠商其實你們跟他並不熟也沒有什麼獲獎的人都跟我們大家沒關係這個我清楚我了解重點是我們這一家廠商那個調整參數你剛說你事前不知道但是他自行調整參數這個部分到底整個開會的過程他們有沒有先告知你們你們也不知道\n53356\t77413\t第一個這個案子主辦機關是臺北國稅局然後由他們主辦國稅局還是在你財政部底下嘛所以如果因為你目前所提供給我的報告部長我個人是不滿意因為有幾個重要的資訊你沒有在這個報告檢討報告裡面跟我們說明清楚包括就是說中獎人的權重同時歸零或者是持續的加重\n78786\t84070\t沒有說明清楚然後另外這家廠商是第一次跟我們合作嗎按照道理說我們都應該希望是所有的人每一次的活動他的獲獎的機率是均等的\n99505\t115516\t做這樣子的權重的就是說讓大家外界我相信你也百思不得其解所以這個廠商這樣的作為是讓外界都覺得說這一次雲端發票爭議這麼多最主要的原因所以我才問說這一家廠商是第一次跟你們財政部合作嗎\n116906\t139014\t第一家廠商是不是跟台北國稅局是不是第一次跟局長是說跟台北國稅局是第二次合作那這是哪一家廠商廠商名字是什麼合約的內容可不可以公佈我時間不多因為我今天好幾個議題要問提供就是我們公開招標的資料我知道是公開招標的\n140580\t163254\t我要求今天執行完之後請你們提供跟這個廠商所有的會議記錄包括當時的權重是歸零或者是累積持續加重他有沒有跟你們溝通清楚他決定要這麼做我覺得是有問題但他決定這麼做他後面怎麼執行合約裡面有沒有寫我覺得你們都要交代清楚光是發挖一個\n164255\t181033\t不算大這是算小案子你都要檢調去調查要檢調幫你調查那到底我們能不能信任你們發包單位啊這個就是我今天提出來的疑問接下來我覺得這是你們要交代清楚行政責任跟企業的問題請你們公開另外一個就是有關車輛貨物稅的爭議\n186699\t190281\t車輛貨物稅的爭議最近我們接到幾個陳情案就是有關民眾申請貨物稅退稅的案子貨物稅的退稅它也是經過合法車輛買了進口車之後一進來之後沒有使用又要再轉賣出去所以按照法規它是可以申請退稅\n208254\t218719\t那這個部分你們現在的說法是說因為現在行政院的有一個案例的判決所以你們要再重新解釋含釋我要請問這是複稅署對不對\n222711\t245098\t賴慧淑的部分對這個案子你們現在的處理模式是什麼是不是由署長跟您說明署長簡單回應我好不好報告委員因為最高行政法有一個判決我們現在是參酌判決議址還有徵詢學者的意見目前在審慎演繹當中但你們已經在重新擬定新的函式對但是按照法規\n246418\t270164\t如果即便你們在處理新的函式按照這個稅捐基深法當中即便有函式因為其他的申請案已經進來要申請退稅的案子已經進來他可以按照法規你們可以按照函式你們可以他們可以你們自然可以有利於納稅義務人對於還沒有核課稅的案子他是可以適用的但是你們把所有案子hold在這邊\n271144\t296018\t我覺得你們在行政上就是有問題我尊重你們後面要用什麼樣新的函式部長我相信你非常清楚我的意思法院的判決歸法院的判決它是針對個案但是現有新的已經有案子曾進來要申請退退你就應該按照現有的函式來處理你不應該把人家後在那邊我尊重你後面要做新的函式我都尊重\n297489\t316986\t你依法行政現在的法是什麼你就要按照這個法來執行這是我要提醒你的地方好你可以請回第三個部長我回過頭來請教你台灣今年的問題部長台灣今年這件事情在我們看來在用人上是有很大的問題三天就下台\n318187\t330615\t這件事情是換掉呂俊吉由呂政章出任這件事情是總統交辦的行政院長還是部長你自己決定的\n332969\t348479\t對於有關相關的投資事業裡面的董總的一個人事調整都是全面性的一個去思考量做一個考量那這個部分大家都會一起做討論好所以大家都會一起做討論這個一起做討論的人有沒有包含院長或總統還是你決定的你說一起是在你底下還是你以上\n357145\t364753\t呃跟委員報告齁這個當然這個財政部所屬的這個部分這個是要由行政院核定的喔所以有行政院這個角色在裡頭齁所以決定要策劃掉合併的機關是行政院對好所以呃\n371941\t387528\t這件事情當時要撤換就是說決定換掉這個施董事長你也有呈報上去要換掉呂政章你也有呈報上去要撤換掉你也有呈報上去案子當然是要由城市部來簽辦上去 對\n390029\t401996\t所以這整件事情如果是行政院決定的話那我要請問部長你自己到底有沒有見過呂正章本人之前在決定要策劃要請他上任的時候你有沒有見過他本人對於這個相關的人選我們都會從他的相關資歷裡面你只有看過他的資歷你沒有跟他談過都要去做一些了解\n412561\t437986\t所以你也不認識他你之前也不認識他我不認識這個人你沒有看過他所以你只有看過他的經歷我不可能從我認識的裡面的人來找我知道但是你決定要用他我們認為都應該用他做事例每個人算即便你要請署長就哪一位署長你一定會見一見聊一聊這是基本的程序ABC所以你也沒看過你只有從經歷上看過這個人\n439026\t463783\t瞭解這個人的一些經歷以及他在過往的一些事業裡面的一些辦理的情形對好那個部長那最後呂政章他最後辭職的時候他放話說台灣的政治遠比國際商業複雜你有這樣的感覺嗎我覺得這是他個人的意見啊個人的意見是所以完全沒有政治因素\n465389\t492756\t呃他個人要辭職我們當然就尊重因為他可能覺得對行政團隊造成的一些困擾他就覺得因避免這樣的一個情形所以他就請辭那我們也尊重他的選擇好部長我還是提醒你未來所有人事任用齁其實不能只看這個一張紙ABC啦所以我覺得還是從這一次的教訓跟經驗我覺得每一個人事任務我覺得還是要找過來進來談哪怕是我們辦公室要找一個新的助理我們都還是會聊一聊談一談嘛\n493656\t498299\t這是我要提醒部長的地方部長因為我今天還有另外一個議題也非常重要因為我只剩下最後兩分鐘的時間部長那個我們今年度的這個預算稅收到前10個月已經達到3,951億元比去年的同期已經增加了9%已經全年已經達到全年的目標這個數字呢已經達到全年預算數的101.9%今年的\n523553\t524293\t財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員\n543043\t544664\t稅收的狀況比預期的樂觀背後代表了有幾個重要的意義在我稍微念一下2021年是4327億元稅收超徵2022 5237億、2023 367億元部長\n561296\t584834\t這個數字背後代表的意義是你之前來到我辦公室甚至你在委員會說連續三年的稅收招徵我們要成立專家小組會議這個代表我們在編列預算以後不會再超這麼多你上個月十月份的時候才說最多是一千億保守的估計超過一千億這是保守的估計現在這個數字是相差了四倍耶\n585755\t594468\t四千億耶部長我說你失職應該不為過要不然就是你預判失準要不然就是我們稅制有問題不是你的失職要不然就是我們稅制的有問題部長我已經很客氣的這樣子講了\n601536\t623353\t不然你了解我意思嗎?因為你一直說你要成立這個小組我們以後預估不會那麼離譜、不會失準這麼多差四倍!跟委員報告這個部分第一個我們確實有成立小組然後我們也做了精進但是你知道有些稅不是我們一開始就可以譬如說證交稅證交稅1、1、3年我們是以3500億的日均量來評估當時在去年的時候委員都認為說我們怎麼可以別3500億股市的狀況你會問金管會就知道\n630819\t639181\t陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�\n652045\t664709\t陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�\n671411\t689998\t沒有效果這段民意代表立場我們的功能我沒有要罵你但我們的功能就是監督所以我告訴你這件事情你仍舊沒有做好那有兩個原因我們稅制有問題那如果不是稅制有問題那就可能是你的失職你審議三家小組沒有用\n690658\t695000\t那未來要怎麼處理你必須要給我答案這是我今天的質詢我們持續精進我們的估測謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝燕修接著請李昆城委員質詢那本席在這裡報告到陳一貞委員陳一貞委員質詢完畢\n","txt":"好請部長好陳部長部長我還是要先延續一下顏寬恆委員的議題這個雲端發票這件事情因為最近財政部的新聞不算少算非常的多雲端發票這整件事情我覺得活動本身我們是支持的鼓勵雲端發票但整件事情我覺得爭議最大的\n是廠商自行協調你說廠商其實你們跟他並不熟也沒有什麼獲獎的人都跟我們大家沒關係這個我清楚我了解重點是我們這一家廠商那個調整參數你剛說你事前不知道但是他自行調整參數這個部分到底整個開會的過程他們有沒有先告知你們你們也不知道\n第一個這個案子主辦機關是臺北國稅局然後由他們主辦國稅局還是在你財政部底下嘛所以如果因為你目前所提供給我的報告部長我個人是不滿意因為有幾個重要的資訊你沒有在這個報告檢討報告裡面跟我們說明清楚包括就是說中獎人的權重同時歸零或者是持續的加重\n沒有說明清楚然後另外這家廠商是第一次跟我們合作嗎按照道理說我們都應該希望是所有的人每一次的活動他的獲獎的機率是均等的\n做這樣子的權重的就是說讓大家外界我相信你也百思不得其解所以這個廠商這樣的作為是讓外界都覺得說這一次雲端發票爭議這麼多最主要的原因所以我才問說這一家廠商是第一次跟你們財政部合作嗎\n第一家廠商是不是跟台北國稅局是不是第一次跟局長是說跟台北國稅局是第二次合作那這是哪一家廠商廠商名字是什麼合約的內容可不可以公佈我時間不多因為我今天好幾個議題要問提供就是我們公開招標的資料我知道是公開招標的\n我要求今天執行完之後請你們提供跟這個廠商所有的會議記錄包括當時的權重是歸零或者是累積持續加重他有沒有跟你們溝通清楚他決定要這麼做我覺得是有問題但他決定這麼做他後面怎麼執行合約裡面有沒有寫我覺得你們都要交代清楚光是發挖一個\n不算大這是算小案子你都要檢調去調查要檢調幫你調查那到底我們能不能信任你們發包單位啊這個就是我今天提出來的疑問接下來我覺得這是你們要交代清楚行政責任跟企業的問題請你們公開另外一個就是有關車輛貨物稅的爭議\n車輛貨物稅的爭議最近我們接到幾個陳情案就是有關民眾申請貨物稅退稅的案子貨物稅的退稅它也是經過合法車輛買了進口車之後一進來之後沒有使用又要再轉賣出去所以按照法規它是可以申請退稅\n那這個部分你們現在的說法是說因為現在行政院的有一個案例的判決所以你們要再重新解釋含釋我要請問這是複稅署對不對\n賴慧淑的部分對這個案子你們現在的處理模式是什麼是不是由署長跟您說明署長簡單回應我好不好報告委員因為最高行政法有一個判決我們現在是參酌判決議址還有徵詢學者的意見目前在審慎演繹當中但你們已經在重新擬定新的函式對但是按照法規\n如果即便你們在處理新的函式按照這個稅捐基深法當中即便有函式因為其他的申請案已經進來要申請退稅的案子已經進來他可以按照法規你們可以按照函式你們可以他們可以你們自然可以有利於納稅義務人對於還沒有核課稅的案子他是可以適用的但是你們把所有案子hold在這邊\n我覺得你們在行政上就是有問題我尊重你們後面要用什麼樣新的函式部長我相信你非常清楚我的意思法院的判決歸法院的判決它是針對個案但是現有新的已經有案子曾進來要申請退退你就應該按照現有的函式來處理你不應該把人家後在那邊我尊重你後面要做新的函式我都尊重\n你依法行政現在的法是什麼你就要按照這個法來執行這是我要提醒你的地方好你可以請回第三個部長我回過頭來請教你台灣今年的問題部長台灣今年這件事情在我們看來在用人上是有很大的問題三天就下台\n這件事情是換掉呂俊吉由呂政章出任這件事情是總統交辦的行政院長還是部長你自己決定的\n對於有關相關的投資事業裡面的董總的一個人事調整都是全面性的一個去思考量做一個考量那這個部分大家都會一起做討論好所以大家都會一起做討論這個一起做討論的人有沒有包含院長或總統還是你決定的你說一起是在你底下還是你以上\n呃跟委員報告齁這個當然這個財政部所屬的這個部分這個是要由行政院核定的喔所以有行政院這個角色在裡頭齁所以決定要策劃掉合併的機關是行政院對好所以呃\n這件事情當時要撤換就是說決定換掉這個施董事長你也有呈報上去要換掉呂政章你也有呈報上去要撤換掉你也有呈報上去案子當然是要由城市部來簽辦上去 對\n所以這整件事情如果是行政院決定的話那我要請問部長你自己到底有沒有見過呂正章本人之前在決定要策劃要請他上任的時候你有沒有見過他本人對於這個相關的人選我們都會從他的相關資歷裡面你只有看過他的資歷你沒有跟他談過都要去做一些了解\n所以你也不認識他你之前也不認識他我不認識這個人你沒有看過他所以你只有看過他的經歷我不可能從我認識的裡面的人來找我知道但是你決定要用他我們認為都應該用他做事例每個人算即便你要請署長就哪一位署長你一定會見一見聊一聊這是基本的程序ABC所以你也沒看過你只有從經歷上看過這個人\n瞭解這個人的一些經歷以及他在過往的一些事業裡面的一些辦理的情形對好那個部長那最後呂政章他最後辭職的時候他放話說台灣的政治遠比國際商業複雜你有這樣的感覺嗎我覺得這是他個人的意見啊個人的意見是所以完全沒有政治因素\n呃他個人要辭職我們當然就尊重因為他可能覺得對行政團隊造成的一些困擾他就覺得因避免這樣的一個情形所以他就請辭那我們也尊重他的選擇好部長我還是提醒你未來所有人事任用齁其實不能只看這個一張紙ABC啦所以我覺得還是從這一次的教訓跟經驗我覺得每一個人事任務我覺得還是要找過來進來談哪怕是我們辦公室要找一個新的助理我們都還是會聊一聊談一談嘛\n這是我要提醒部長的地方部長因為我今天還有另外一個議題也非常重要因為我只剩下最後兩分鐘的時間部長那個我們今年度的這個預算稅收到前10個月已經達到3,951億元比去年的同期已經增加了9%已經全年已經達到全年的目標這個數字呢已經達到全年預算數的101.9%今年的\n財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員\n稅收的狀況比預期的樂觀背後代表了有幾個重要的意義在我稍微念一下2021年是4327億元稅收超徵2022 5237億、2023 367億元部長\n這個數字背後代表的意義是你之前來到我辦公室甚至你在委員會說連續三年的稅收招徵我們要成立專家小組會議這個代表我們在編列預算以後不會再超這麼多你上個月十月份的時候才說最多是一千億保守的估計超過一千億這是保守的估計現在這個數字是相差了四倍耶\n四千億耶部長我說你失職應該不為過要不然就是你預判失準要不然就是我們稅制有問題不是你的失職要不然就是我們稅制的有問題部長我已經很客氣的這樣子講了\n不然你了解我意思嗎?因為你一直說你要成立這個小組我們以後預估不會那麼離譜、不會失準這麼多差四倍!跟委員報告這個部分第一個我們確實有成立小組然後我們也做了精進但是你知道有些稅不是我們一開始就可以譬如說證交稅證交稅1、1、3年我們是以3500億的日均量來評估當時在去年的時候委員都認為說我們怎麼可以別3500億股市的狀況你會問金管會就知道\n陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�\n陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�\n沒有效果這段民意代表立場我們的功能我沒有要罵你但我們的功能就是監督所以我告訴你這件事情你仍舊沒有做好那有兩個原因我們稅制有問題那如果不是稅制有問題那就可能是你的失職你審議三家小組沒有用\n那未來要怎麼處理你必須要給我答案這是我今天的質詢我們持續精進我們的估測謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝燕修接著請李昆城委員質詢那本席在這裡報告到陳一貞委員陳一貞委員質詢完畢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.145 --> 00:07.447\n好請部長好陳部長部長我還是要先延續一下顏寬恆委員的議題這個雲端發票這件事情因為最近財政部的新聞不算少算非常的多雲端發票這整件事情我覺得活動本身我們是支持的鼓勵雲端發票但整件事情我覺得爭議最大的\n\n00:29.366 --> 00:52.029\n是廠商自行協調你說廠商其實你們跟他並不熟也沒有什麼獲獎的人都跟我們大家沒關係這個我清楚我了解重點是我們這一家廠商那個調整參數你剛說你事前不知道但是他自行調整參數這個部分到底整個開會的過程他們有沒有先告知你們你們也不知道\n\n00:53.356 --> 01:17.413\n第一個這個案子主辦機關是臺北國稅局然後由他們主辦國稅局還是在你財政部底下嘛所以如果因為你目前所提供給我的報告部長我個人是不滿意因為有幾個重要的資訊你沒有在這個報告檢討報告裡面跟我們說明清楚包括就是說中獎人的權重同時歸零或者是持續的加重\n\n01:18.786 --> 01:24.070\n沒有說明清楚然後另外這家廠商是第一次跟我們合作嗎按照道理說我們都應該希望是所有的人每一次的活動他的獲獎的機率是均等的\n\n01:39.505 --> 01:55.516\n做這樣子的權重的就是說讓大家外界我相信你也百思不得其解所以這個廠商這樣的作為是讓外界都覺得說這一次雲端發票爭議這麼多最主要的原因所以我才問說這一家廠商是第一次跟你們財政部合作嗎\n\n01:56.906 --> 02:19.014\n第一家廠商是不是跟台北國稅局是不是第一次跟局長是說跟台北國稅局是第二次合作那這是哪一家廠商廠商名字是什麼合約的內容可不可以公佈我時間不多因為我今天好幾個議題要問提供就是我們公開招標的資料我知道是公開招標的\n\n02:20.580 --> 02:43.254\n我要求今天執行完之後請你們提供跟這個廠商所有的會議記錄包括當時的權重是歸零或者是累積持續加重他有沒有跟你們溝通清楚他決定要這麼做我覺得是有問題但他決定這麼做他後面怎麼執行合約裡面有沒有寫我覺得你們都要交代清楚光是發挖一個\n\n02:44.255 --> 03:01.033\n不算大這是算小案子你都要檢調去調查要檢調幫你調查那到底我們能不能信任你們發包單位啊這個就是我今天提出來的疑問接下來我覺得這是你們要交代清楚行政責任跟企業的問題請你們公開另外一個就是有關車輛貨物稅的爭議\n\n03:06.699 --> 03:10.281\n車輛貨物稅的爭議最近我們接到幾個陳情案就是有關民眾申請貨物稅退稅的案子貨物稅的退稅它也是經過合法車輛買了進口車之後一進來之後沒有使用又要再轉賣出去所以按照法規它是可以申請退稅\n\n03:28.254 --> 03:38.719\n那這個部分你們現在的說法是說因為現在行政院的有一個案例的判決所以你們要再重新解釋含釋我要請問這是複稅署對不對\n\n03:42.711 --> 04:05.098\n賴慧淑的部分對這個案子你們現在的處理模式是什麼是不是由署長跟您說明署長簡單回應我好不好報告委員因為最高行政法有一個判決我們現在是參酌判決議址還有徵詢學者的意見目前在審慎演繹當中但你們已經在重新擬定新的函式對但是按照法規\n\n04:06.418 --> 04:30.164\n如果即便你們在處理新的函式按照這個稅捐基深法當中即便有函式因為其他的申請案已經進來要申請退稅的案子已經進來他可以按照法規你們可以按照函式你們可以他們可以你們自然可以有利於納稅義務人對於還沒有核課稅的案子他是可以適用的但是你們把所有案子hold在這邊\n\n04:31.144 --> 04:56.018\n我覺得你們在行政上就是有問題我尊重你們後面要用什麼樣新的函式部長我相信你非常清楚我的意思法院的判決歸法院的判決它是針對個案但是現有新的已經有案子曾進來要申請退退你就應該按照現有的函式來處理你不應該把人家後在那邊我尊重你後面要做新的函式我都尊重\n\n04:57.489 --> 05:16.986\n你依法行政現在的法是什麼你就要按照這個法來執行這是我要提醒你的地方好你可以請回第三個部長我回過頭來請教你台灣今年的問題部長台灣今年這件事情在我們看來在用人上是有很大的問題三天就下台\n\n05:18.187 --> 05:30.615\n這件事情是換掉呂俊吉由呂政章出任這件事情是總統交辦的行政院長還是部長你自己決定的\n\n05:32.969 --> 05:48.479\n對於有關相關的投資事業裡面的董總的一個人事調整都是全面性的一個去思考量做一個考量那這個部分大家都會一起做討論好所以大家都會一起做討論這個一起做討論的人有沒有包含院長或總統還是你決定的你說一起是在你底下還是你以上\n\n05:57.145 --> 06:04.753\n呃跟委員報告齁這個當然這個財政部所屬的這個部分這個是要由行政院核定的喔所以有行政院這個角色在裡頭齁所以決定要策劃掉合併的機關是行政院對好所以呃\n\n06:11.941 --> 06:27.528\n這件事情當時要撤換就是說決定換掉這個施董事長你也有呈報上去要換掉呂政章你也有呈報上去要撤換掉你也有呈報上去案子當然是要由城市部來簽辦上去對\n\n06:30.029 --> 06:41.996\n所以這整件事情如果是行政院決定的話那我要請問部長你自己到底有沒有見過呂正章本人之前在決定要策劃要請他上任的時候你有沒有見過他本人對於這個相關的人選我們都會從他的相關資歷裡面你只有看過他的資歷你沒有跟他談過都要去做一些了解\n\n06:52.561 --> 07:17.986\n所以你也不認識他你之前也不認識他我不認識這個人你沒有看過他所以你只有看過他的經歷我不可能從我認識的裡面的人來找我知道但是你決定要用他我們認為都應該用他做事例每個人算即便你要請署長就哪一位署長你一定會見一見聊一聊這是基本的程序ABC所以你也沒看過你只有從經歷上看過這個人\n\n07:19.026 --> 07:43.783\n瞭解這個人的一些經歷以及他在過往的一些事業裡面的一些辦理的情形對好那個部長那最後呂政章他最後辭職的時候他放話說台灣的政治遠比國際商業複雜你有這樣的感覺嗎我覺得這是他個人的意見啊個人的意見是所以完全沒有政治因素\n\n07:45.389 --> 08:12.756\n呃他個人要辭職我們當然就尊重因為他可能覺得對行政團隊造成的一些困擾他就覺得因避免這樣的一個情形所以他就請辭那我們也尊重他的選擇好部長我還是提醒你未來所有人事任用齁其實不能只看這個一張紙ABC啦所以我覺得還是從這一次的教訓跟經驗我覺得每一個人事任務我覺得還是要找過來進來談哪怕是我們辦公室要找一個新的助理我們都還是會聊一聊談一談嘛\n\n08:13.656 --> 08:18.299\n這是我要提醒部長的地方部長因為我今天還有另外一個議題也非常重要因為我只剩下最後兩分鐘的時間部長那個我們今年度的這個預算稅收到前10個月已經達到3,951億元比去年的同期已經增加了9%已經全年已經達到全年的目標這個數字呢已經達到全年預算數的101.9%今年的\n\n08:43.553 --> 08:44.293\n財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員\n\n09:03.043 --> 09:04.664\n稅收的狀況比預期的樂觀背後代表了有幾個重要的意義在我稍微念一下2021年是4327億元稅收超徵20225237億、2023367億元部長\n\n09:21.296 --> 09:44.834\n這個數字背後代表的意義是你之前來到我辦公室甚至你在委員會說連續三年的稅收招徵我們要成立專家小組會議這個代表我們在編列預算以後不會再超這麼多你上個月十月份的時候才說最多是一千億保守的估計超過一千億這是保守的估計現在這個數字是相差了四倍耶\n\n09:45.755 --> 09:54.468\n四千億耶部長我說你失職應該不為過要不然就是你預判失準要不然就是我們稅制有問題不是你的失職要不然就是我們稅制的有問題部長我已經很客氣的這樣子講了\n\n10:01.536 --> 10:23.353\n不然你了解我意思嗎?因為你一直說你要成立這個小組我們以後預估不會那麼離譜、不會失準這麼多差四倍!跟委員報告這個部分第一個我們確實有成立小組然後我們也做了精進但是你知道有些稅不是我們一開始就可以譬如說證交稅證交稅1、1、3年我們是以3500億的日均量來評估當時在去年的時候委員都認為說我們怎麼可以別3500億股市的狀況你會問金管會就知道\n\n10:30.819 --> 10:39.181\n陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�\n\n10:52.045 --> 11:04.709\n陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�\n\n11:11.411 --> 11:29.998\n沒有效果這段民意代表立場我們的功能我沒有要罵你但我們的功能就是監督所以我告訴你這件事情你仍舊沒有做好那有兩個原因我們稅制有問題那如果不是稅制有問題那就可能是你的失職你審議三家小組沒有用\n\n11:30.658 --> 11:35.000\n那未來要怎麼處理你必須要給我答案這是我今天的質詢我們持續精進我們的估測謝謝部長謝謝謝謝燕修接著請李昆城委員質詢那本席在這裡報告到陳一貞委員陳一貞委員質詢完畢\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.145,"end":7.447,"text":"好請部長好陳部長部長我還是要先延續一下顏寬恆委員的議題這個雲端發票這件事情因為最近財政部的新聞不算少算非常的多雲端發票這整件事情我覺得活動本身我們是支持的鼓勵雲端發票但整件事情我覺得爭議最大的"},{"start":29.366,"end":52.029,"text":"是廠商自行協調你說廠商其實你們跟他並不熟也沒有什麼獲獎的人都跟我們大家沒關係這個我清楚我了解重點是我們這一家廠商那個調整參數你剛說你事前不知道但是他自行調整參數這個部分到底整個開會的過程他們有沒有先告知你們你們也不知道"},{"start":53.356,"end":77.413,"text":"第一個這個案子主辦機關是臺北國稅局然後由他們主辦國稅局還是在你財政部底下嘛所以如果因為你目前所提供給我的報告部長我個人是不滿意因為有幾個重要的資訊你沒有在這個報告檢討報告裡面跟我們說明清楚包括就是說中獎人的權重同時歸零或者是持續的加重"},{"start":78.786,"end":84.07,"text":"沒有說明清楚然後另外這家廠商是第一次跟我們合作嗎按照道理說我們都應該希望是所有的人每一次的活動他的獲獎的機率是均等的"},{"start":99.505,"end":115.516,"text":"做這樣子的權重的就是說讓大家外界我相信你也百思不得其解所以這個廠商這樣的作為是讓外界都覺得說這一次雲端發票爭議這麼多最主要的原因所以我才問說這一家廠商是第一次跟你們財政部合作嗎"},{"start":116.906,"end":139.014,"text":"第一家廠商是不是跟台北國稅局是不是第一次跟局長是說跟台北國稅局是第二次合作那這是哪一家廠商廠商名字是什麼合約的內容可不可以公佈我時間不多因為我今天好幾個議題要問提供就是我們公開招標的資料我知道是公開招標的"},{"start":140.58,"end":163.254,"text":"我要求今天執行完之後請你們提供跟這個廠商所有的會議記錄包括當時的權重是歸零或者是累積持續加重他有沒有跟你們溝通清楚他決定要這麼做我覺得是有問題但他決定這麼做他後面怎麼執行合約裡面有沒有寫我覺得你們都要交代清楚光是發挖一個"},{"start":164.255,"end":181.033,"text":"不算大這是算小案子你都要檢調去調查要檢調幫你調查那到底我們能不能信任你們發包單位啊這個就是我今天提出來的疑問接下來我覺得這是你們要交代清楚行政責任跟企業的問題請你們公開另外一個就是有關車輛貨物稅的爭議"},{"start":186.699,"end":190.281,"text":"車輛貨物稅的爭議最近我們接到幾個陳情案就是有關民眾申請貨物稅退稅的案子貨物稅的退稅它也是經過合法車輛買了進口車之後一進來之後沒有使用又要再轉賣出去所以按照法規它是可以申請退稅"},{"start":208.254,"end":218.719,"text":"那這個部分你們現在的說法是說因為現在行政院的有一個案例的判決所以你們要再重新解釋含釋我要請問這是複稅署對不對"},{"start":222.711,"end":245.098,"text":"賴慧淑的部分對這個案子你們現在的處理模式是什麼是不是由署長跟您說明署長簡單回應我好不好報告委員因為最高行政法有一個判決我們現在是參酌判決議址還有徵詢學者的意見目前在審慎演繹當中但你們已經在重新擬定新的函式對但是按照法規"},{"start":246.418,"end":270.164,"text":"如果即便你們在處理新的函式按照這個稅捐基深法當中即便有函式因為其他的申請案已經進來要申請退稅的案子已經進來他可以按照法規你們可以按照函式你們可以他們可以你們自然可以有利於納稅義務人對於還沒有核課稅的案子他是可以適用的但是你們把所有案子hold在這邊"},{"start":271.144,"end":296.018,"text":"我覺得你們在行政上就是有問題我尊重你們後面要用什麼樣新的函式部長我相信你非常清楚我的意思法院的判決歸法院的判決它是針對個案但是現有新的已經有案子曾進來要申請退退你就應該按照現有的函式來處理你不應該把人家後在那邊我尊重你後面要做新的函式我都尊重"},{"start":297.489,"end":316.986,"text":"你依法行政現在的法是什麼你就要按照這個法來執行這是我要提醒你的地方好你可以請回第三個部長我回過頭來請教你台灣今年的問題部長台灣今年這件事情在我們看來在用人上是有很大的問題三天就下台"},{"start":318.187,"end":330.615,"text":"這件事情是換掉呂俊吉由呂政章出任這件事情是總統交辦的行政院長還是部長你自己決定的"},{"start":332.969,"end":348.479,"text":"對於有關相關的投資事業裡面的董總的一個人事調整都是全面性的一個去思考量做一個考量那這個部分大家都會一起做討論好所以大家都會一起做討論這個一起做討論的人有沒有包含院長或總統還是你決定的你說一起是在你底下還是你以上"},{"start":357.145,"end":364.753,"text":"呃跟委員報告齁這個當然這個財政部所屬的這個部分這個是要由行政院核定的喔所以有行政院這個角色在裡頭齁所以決定要策劃掉合併的機關是行政院對好所以呃"},{"start":371.941,"end":387.528,"text":"這件事情當時要撤換就是說決定換掉這個施董事長你也有呈報上去要換掉呂政章你也有呈報上去要撤換掉你也有呈報上去案子當然是要由城市部來簽辦上去 對"},{"start":390.029,"end":401.996,"text":"所以這整件事情如果是行政院決定的話那我要請問部長你自己到底有沒有見過呂正章本人之前在決定要策劃要請他上任的時候你有沒有見過他本人對於這個相關的人選我們都會從他的相關資歷裡面你只有看過他的資歷你沒有跟他談過都要去做一些了解"},{"start":412.561,"end":437.986,"text":"所以你也不認識他你之前也不認識他我不認識這個人你沒有看過他所以你只有看過他的經歷我不可能從我認識的裡面的人來找我知道但是你決定要用他我們認為都應該用他做事例每個人算即便你要請署長就哪一位署長你一定會見一見聊一聊這是基本的程序ABC所以你也沒看過你只有從經歷上看過這個人"},{"start":439.026,"end":463.783,"text":"瞭解這個人的一些經歷以及他在過往的一些事業裡面的一些辦理的情形對好那個部長那最後呂政章他最後辭職的時候他放話說台灣的政治遠比國際商業複雜你有這樣的感覺嗎我覺得這是他個人的意見啊個人的意見是所以完全沒有政治因素"},{"start":465.389,"end":492.756,"text":"呃他個人要辭職我們當然就尊重因為他可能覺得對行政團隊造成的一些困擾他就覺得因避免這樣的一個情形所以他就請辭那我們也尊重他的選擇好部長我還是提醒你未來所有人事任用齁其實不能只看這個一張紙ABC啦所以我覺得還是從這一次的教訓跟經驗我覺得每一個人事任務我覺得還是要找過來進來談哪怕是我們辦公室要找一個新的助理我們都還是會聊一聊談一談嘛"},{"start":493.656,"end":498.299,"text":"這是我要提醒部長的地方部長因為我今天還有另外一個議題也非常重要因為我只剩下最後兩分鐘的時間部長那個我們今年度的這個預算稅收到前10個月已經達到3,951億元比去年的同期已經增加了9%已經全年已經達到全年的目標這個數字呢已經達到全年預算數的101.9%今年的"},{"start":523.553,"end":524.293,"text":"財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員、財政委員"},{"start":543.043,"end":544.664,"text":"稅收的狀況比預期的樂觀背後代表了有幾個重要的意義在我稍微念一下2021年是4327億元稅收超徵2022 5237億、2023 367億元部長"},{"start":561.296,"end":584.834,"text":"這個數字背後代表的意義是你之前來到我辦公室甚至你在委員會說連續三年的稅收招徵我們要成立專家小組會議這個代表我們在編列預算以後不會再超這麼多你上個月十月份的時候才說最多是一千億保守的估計超過一千億這是保守的估計現在這個數字是相差了四倍耶"},{"start":585.755,"end":594.468,"text":"四千億耶部長我說你失職應該不為過要不然就是你預判失準要不然就是我們稅制有問題不是你的失職要不然就是我們稅制的有問題部長我已經很客氣的這樣子講了"},{"start":601.536,"end":623.353,"text":"不然你了解我意思嗎?因為你一直說你要成立這個小組我們以後預估不會那麼離譜、不會失準這麼多差四倍!跟委員報告這個部分第一個我們確實有成立小組然後我們也做了精進但是你知道有些稅不是我們一開始就可以譬如說證交稅證交稅1、1、3年我們是以3500億的日均量來評估當時在去年的時候委員都認為說我們怎麼可以別3500億股市的狀況你會問金管會就知道"},{"start":630.819,"end":639.181,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":652.045,"end":664.709,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":671.411,"end":689.998,"text":"沒有效果這段民意代表立場我們的功能我沒有要罵你但我們的功能就是監督所以我告訴你這件事情你仍舊沒有做好那有兩個原因我們稅制有問題那如果不是稅制有問題那就可能是你的失職你審議三家小組沒有用"},{"start":690.658,"end":695,"text":"那未來要怎麼處理你必須要給我答案這是我今天的質詢我們持續精進我們的估測謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝燕修接著請李昆城委員質詢那本席在這裡報告到陳一貞委員陳一貞委員質詢完畢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":856,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（10時49分）我要不要先讓部長喝口水？部長你先喝口水，慢慢上來沒關係。請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我還是要先延續一下顏寬恒委員的議題，因為最近財政部的新聞不算少，其實算是非常的多，關於雲端發票這整件事情，我覺得活動本身我們是支持的，應該要鼓勵雲端發票，但整件事情我覺得爭議最大的是廠商自行協調，你說其實你們跟廠商並不熟，獲獎的人都跟我們大家沒關係，這個我清楚、我了解，重點是這一家廠商調整參數，你剛說你事前不知道，但它自行調整參數這個部分，到底整個開會的過程有沒有先告知你們？你們也不知道？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一，這個案子主辦機關是臺北國稅局，由它們主辦。"],["李委員彥秀：國稅局還是在你們財政部底下。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們並不知道。"],["李委員彥秀：你們目前所提供給我的報告，我個人是不滿意，因為有幾個重要的資訊你沒有在檢討報告裡面跟我們說明清楚，包括中獎人的權重同時歸零或者持續加重沒有說明清楚。另外，這家廠商是第一次跟我們合作嗎？按照道理說，我們希望應該是所有的人每一次活動的獲獎機率都是均等的，所以它做這樣權重的……我相信你也百思不得其解，所以這個廠商這樣的作為是讓外界覺得這次雲端發票爭議這麼多的最主要原因，所以我才問這家廠商是第一次跟你們財政部合作嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：局長說這家廠商跟臺北國稅局是第二次合作……"],["吳局長蓮英：第一次。"],["李委員彥秀：這是哪一家廠商？廠商名字是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：是不是由國稅局來說明？"],["李委員彥秀：合約的內容可不可以公布？我時間不多，因為我今天有好幾個議題要問。"],["吳局長蓮英：我們可以提供公開招標的資料。"],["李委員彥秀：我知道是公開招標，我要求今天質詢完之後，請你們提供跟這個廠商所有的會議紀錄，包括當時的權重是歸零或者是累積持續加重，它有沒有跟你們溝通清楚，它決定要這麼做，我覺得是有問題，但它決定這麼做，它後面怎麼執行，合約裡面有沒有寫，我覺得你們都要交代清楚。光是發包一個不算大的，這算是小案子，你都要檢調去幫你調查，到底我們能不能信任你們發包單位？這就是我今天提出來的疑問。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員，了解。"],["李委員彥秀：我覺得這是你們要交代清楚，行政責任和契約的問題，請你們公開。","另外，有關車輛貨物稅的爭議，最近我們接到幾個陳情案，就是有關民眾申請貨物稅退稅的案子，貨物稅的退稅也是經過合法的，就是買了進口車進來之後，沒有使用又要再轉賣出去，按照法規他是可以申請退稅。這個部分你們現在的說法是因為現在行政院有一個案例的判決，所以你們要再重新解釋、函釋，這是賦稅署的部分，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["李委員彥秀：這個案子你們現在的處理模式是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：是不是由署長跟你說明？"],["李委員彥秀：請署長簡單回應我。"],["宋署長秀玲：報告委員，因為最高行政法院有一個判決，我們現在是參酌判決意旨和徵詢學者的意見，目前審慎研議當中。"],["李委員彥秀：你們已經在重新擬定新的函釋吧！"],["宋署長秀玲：對。"],["李委員彥秀：即便你們在處理新的函釋，按照稅捐稽徵法，因為其他的申請案、要申請退稅的案子已經進來，你們自然可以有利於納稅義務人，對於還沒有核課稅的案子，他是可以適用的。"],["宋署長秀玲：是。"],["李委員彥秀：但是你們把所有的案子hold在這邊，我覺得你們在行政上就是有問題。我尊重你們後面要用什麼新的函釋，部長，我相信你非常清楚我的意思，法院的判決歸法院的判決，它是針對個案，但是已經有案子進來要申請退稅，你就應該按照現有的函釋來處理，你不應該把人家hold在那邊。我尊重你後面要做新的函釋，我都尊重，你依法行政，現在的法是什麼，你就按照這個法來執行，這是我要提醒你的地方。","第三個，部長，我回過頭來要請教你台灣金聯的問題，台灣金聯這件事在我們看來，用人上是有很大的問題，3天就下臺，換掉施俊吉由呂政璋出任這件事情是總統交辦的、行政院長，還是部長你自己決定的？"],["莊部長翠雲：對於相關投資事業董總的人事調整都是全面性的考量，這個部分大家都會一起做討論。"],["李委員彥秀：「大家都會一起做討論」，一起做討論的人有沒有包含院長或總統，還是你決定的？你說「一起」是在你底下，還是你以上？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然財政部所屬的部分是要由行政院核定。"],["李委員彥秀：所以有行政院這個角色在裡頭。"],["莊部長翠雲：核定的機關是行政院，對。"],["李委員彥秀：當時決定換掉施董事長，你有陳報上去，要換掉呂政璋你也有陳報上去？要撤換掉，你有陳報上去？"],["莊部長翠雲：案子當然要由財政部來簽辦上去。"],["李委員彥秀：這整件事情如果是行政院決定的話，我要請問部長，你到底有沒有見過呂政璋本人？之前在決定要請他上任的時候，你有沒有見過他本人？"],["莊部長翠雲：對於相關的人選，我們都會從他的相關資歷裡面以及過往的一些經驗……"],["李委員彥秀：你只有看過他的資歷，沒有跟他談過？"],["莊部長翠雲：都要去做一些了解。對。"],["李委員彥秀：所以你也不認識他？你之前不認識他？"],["莊部長翠雲：我不認識這個人。"],["李委員彥秀：你沒有看過他，只有看過他的資歷？"],["莊部長翠雲：我不可能從我認識的人裡面來找，我們認為都應該要看他的資歷……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，但是你決定要用他。送上來，你也沒有找他聊過、談過，每一個人事案，即便你要請哪位署長，你一定會見一見、聊一聊，這是基本的程序ABC，所以你也沒看過他，只有從經歷上看過這個人？"],["莊部長翠雲：了解這個人的一些經歷，以及他過往的一些事業裡面辦理的情形。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，呂政璋最後辭職的時候放話說，臺灣的政治遠比國際商業複雜，你有這樣的感覺嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我覺得這是他個人的意見。"],["李委員彥秀：所以完全沒有政治因素？"],["莊部長翠雲：他個人要辭職，我們當然就尊重，因為他可能覺得對行政團隊造成了一些困擾，他就覺得避免這樣的情形，所以他就請辭，我們也尊重他的選擇。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我還是提醒你，未來所有人事任用不能只看一張紙、ABC，從這次的教訓和經驗，我覺得每一個人事案還是要找過來談，哪怕是我們辦公室要找一個新的助理，我們都還是會聊一聊、談一談，這是我要提醒部長的地方。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員，是。"],["李委員彥秀：我今天還有另外一個議題也非常重要，只剩下最後2分鐘的時間。部長，今年度的稅收到前10個月達到3兆2,951億元，比去年同期增加9%，已經達到全年目標，這個數字已經達到全年預算數的101.9%，今年超徵的金額大概達到4,000億元，前面幾位委員已經問過了，再次創下歷史第三高，今天報紙都寫得非常清楚，甚至有可能還會挑戰是不是更高，都有可能，就看最後3個月的數字。稅收的狀況比預期樂觀，背後代表幾個重要的意義，我稍微唸一下，稅收超徵2021年4,327億元，2022年5,237億元，2023年3,671億元。部長，這個數字背後代表的意義是？你之前來到我辦公室，甚至你在委員會說連續3年的稅收超徵，我們要成立專家小組會議，這個代表我們在編列預算時，以後不會再超這麼多，你在上個月、10月份的時候才說最多是1,000億元，保守的估計超過1,000億元，現在這個數字相差了4倍，4,000億元耶！部長，我說你失職應該不為過，要不然就是你預判失準，要不然就是我們稅制有問題！不是你的失職，要不然就是我們稅制有問題。部長，我已經很客氣的這樣子講了，你了解我的意思嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道……"],["李委員彥秀：你一直說要成立這個小組，我們以後預估不會那麼離譜、不會失準這麼多，差4倍耶！"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，我們確實有成立小組，我們也做了精進，但是您知道有些稅不是我們一開始就可以……譬如證交稅，證交稅113年我們是以3,500億元的日均量來評估，去年的時候委員都認為，我們怎麼可以編3,500億元……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，股市的狀況你問問金管會就知道，我們都可以預估再從寬，但是差4倍。"],["莊部長翠雲：今年達到了5,000億元的日均量。"],["李委員彥秀：我沒有要罵你，我只是覺得差4倍，10月份你才說保守1,000億元。"],["莊部長翠雲：是保守啊！"],["李委員彥秀：現在預估出來是4,000億元，而且還有可能比4,000億元還要更高。"],["莊部長翠雲：1,000億元是指中央數的1,000億元。"],["李委員彥秀：最後的數字是4,000億元，而且最後我們看到的是超徵稅收今年可能有4,000億元，所以那個數字還是失準。部長，我還是要提醒你，你上次承諾要成立專家會議，說我們未來預估不會那麼離譜，也不會差別那麼多，我覺得你那專家會議是沒有效果的。"],["莊部長翠雲：有……"],["李委員彥秀：站在民意代表的立場，我沒有要罵你，但我們的功能就是監督，所以我告訴你這件事情你仍舊沒有做好，有兩個原因，我們稅制有問題？如果不是稅制有問題，那就可能是你的失職，你成立專家小組沒有用，未來要怎麼處理，你必須要給我答案，這是我今天的質詢。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們持續精進我們的估測。"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝彥秀。","接著請李坤城委員質詢。本席在此宣告：到陳玉珍委員質詢完畢後，休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}}