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224.256, \"end\": 251.89, \"text\": \"國防的金額又夠大所以如果要湊到他們講的那個額度的話國防一定是首當其衝那希望在協商的時候國防不能夠來表達意見是我們對我們必要的這些有關人員維持作業維持跟軍事投資的部分當然我們非常的不希望因為這樣子的任何法案的通過造成對於國防編列的這個影響特別是在這一個關鍵的時刻\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 224.256, \"end\": 224.336, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 224.336, \"end\": 224.456, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 224.456, \"end\": 224.696, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 224.696, \"end\": 225.137, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 225.137, \"end\": 225.657, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 225.657, \"end\": 225.757, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 225.757, \"end\": 225.997, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 225.997, \"end\": 226.157, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 226.157, \"end\": 226.257, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 226.257, \"end\": 226.697, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 542.748, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 542.748, \"end\": 542.768, \"score\": 0.956}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,010\n有請部長,謝謝來,部長請部長好,那這個因為時間有限我大部分是要問預算的問題但是在這個之前剛好這次有發生一個時事就是這一個吳小林委員他有提案要去刪這一個9條之3的規定那我知道國防部之前其實也已經有做過相關的這個懲處\n\n2\n00:00:29,039 --> 00:00:52,548\n那我想問一下就是因為畢竟這件事情在另外這個王定宇委員跟林楚瑜委員其實也有提案他是要把九之三修的更多譬如說包含這個配合中國具有統戰目的的政治宣傳的行為那我想問一下部長就是說這個因為現在當然他們現在簽的人是不夠啦看起來可能不會提案但不知道這個提案當時他們有沒有跟國防部知會過或者討論過這件事情\n\n3\n00:00:53,448 --> 00:01:14,669\n您說翁委員嗎?對,翁委員的提案我個人沒有,不知道因為我覺得這件事情畢竟對我們來講這一個是我們今天對於退將去參與統戰的行為的規範就已經非常少了甚至有不夠細緻的問題所以照理說我們要修的方向應該是要把它變得更細緻才對那如果拿掉的話對我們不管是在\n\n4\n00:01:15,309 --> 00:01:30,006\n這一個對於國人的交代或者說在軍隊內部的士氣我覺得會有很重大的影響那我是希望如果之後還有類似的提案國防部能夠堅守原本的一個態度那不然的話呢如果像這樣的一個情勢發生的話國家安全的守護可能會出問題\n\n5\n00:01:31,178 --> 00:01:58,079\n那這個接下來這個我就先放在旁邊我想問一下預算的問題那現在預算來講就是有第一個是財化法通過的問題這個上次我在博富的時候我有先稍微提過那當然極端的情形會刪到2700多億我覺得這個太極端了但如果我們用主祭出的算法假設每一個都去刪到三分之一到四分之一的話那財化法通過最後\n\n6\n00:01:59,561 --> 00:02:22,359\n國防預算會被刪有可能是一千六百多億這是比較保守的算法那一千六百多億現在被刪的話呢軍事投資本身就是一千四左右所以簡單來講就是軍事投資有可能會全部都沒有啦然後還必須再從作業維持再刪掉一百九十五億那因為上次是跟伯父講上次因為部長不在那不知道現在國防部對這件事情有沒有什麼因應的做法\n\n7\n00:02:24,117 --> 00:02:45,615\n我想財化法的通過如果影響到這個我們年度的國防預算的這個穩定的成長的話我想這個對於我們這個要自我防衛的能力的一個建構以及這個有盟國家對於我們有沒有自我防衛的能力的決心應該會有所質疑這樣\n\n8\n00:02:46,395 --> 00:02:52,844\n對,而且軍事投資的部分因為我知道有一些比如說軍事的採購啊等等之類他是已經簽約了啦那已經簽約的話如果這個預算沒有編出來那該怎麼辦\n\n9\n00:02:55,836 --> 00:03:16,988\n就持續案的部分一直有相當大的一個金額在軍事投資的部分那持續案的部分應該是要持續編列下去如果沒有編列下去的話那這個會構成對我們相關的這些不管是自主的研發生產或者是我們軍購的都會構成重大的影響\n\n10\n00:03:17,888 --> 00:03:43,056\n我相信這一個月很有可能這件事情一定會走到協商這一個地步那在總預算審查的時間這件事情如果也同步是在協商的階段他們有可能會針對金額去討論說到底要刪哪裡啊到底中央能夠去被割掉多少啊那個時候我們很需要國防部能夠表達意見不然的話因為對於很多地方財政來講他們第一個想到的就會想說反正國防是中央的事情要砍第一個先砍國防\n\n11\n00:03:44,256 --> 00:04:11,890\n國防的金額又夠大所以如果要湊到他們講的那個額度的話國防一定是首當其衝那希望在協商的時候國防不能夠來表達意見是我們對我們必要的這些有關人員維持作業維持跟軍事投資的部分當然我們非常的不希望因為這樣子的任何法案的通過造成對於國防編列的這個影響特別是在這一個關鍵的時刻\n\n12\n00:04:13,631 --> 00:04:42,811\n謝謝顧部長那接下來我想問一下跟剛剛馬委員問的問題有點類似就是加班費的問題就是這個我先跳過但是這個畢竟就是我們現在供給腦台變得越來越多了那大家的這個作業不管是加班等等之類的情形也越來越多那我其實現在就有可能一個情形就是加班真的是加不完太多了但現在也有休假就是沒有辦法去休的問題所以現在就是說因為之前休不完有時候會說那把它弄到明年但明年一定也休不到\n\n13\n00:04:43,571 --> 00:05:11,841\n那這個修不完呢有一個方式可能就是做則算補貼因為2023年的時候大法官有解釋就是說呢可以放寬一下那樣的一個定義就是軍人是一個廣義的公務人員所以我們不知道有沒有機會請國防部來盤點一下這件事情就是說呢就是這個2024年現在累積的這個假期的天數然後有沒有機會譬如說假設他今天真的修不到了因為畢竟現在業務太繁忙人也不夠有沒有機會用什麼則算金或者其他的方式\n\n14\n00:05:12,481 --> 00:05:24,481\n那這個是不是可以請國防部在一個月之內能夠研擬相關的方案讓我們在預算討論的時候能夠去看有沒有辦法讓這些過度忙碌的官兵至少有一個休假休不到但他至少有一個補償\n\n15\n00:05:28,394 --> 00:05:47,544\n包委員我們回去持續再做一個沒問題希望是在預算的這一個時候因為我覺得這個畢竟因為他休假休不到嘛你看他太忙了那另外也順便我再問另外一件事情就是就是因為現在大家忙那在民間我們常常會講四人薪僱三員工作五份工那現在當然是\n\n16\n00:05:48,064 --> 00:06:04,117\n以公務機關來講不可能用四人薪然後呢雇三員工做五份工但現在現實的狀況是大家會過度的忙碌所以剛剛第一個我們想到的就是休假這個部分有沒有折算金的問題那第二個就是呢這是國防部大概行政上就可以去運作的不管是我們之前\n\n17\n00:06:04,577 --> 00:06:31,584\n在考察的加菜金啊什麼等等之類的我覺得這個部分就一起做研擬但我接下來想要問的是這一個就是因為在之前呢因為現在海空威脅越來越多然後我們當時有看到國防部內部有這樣的一個討論就是說呢這個海空呢針對這些海企然後這飛行的家籍啦那這個家籍當時這個方案被提出來之後呢在各軍種之間好像也有一些矛盾啦就是說那為什麼他們家沒有家就是有這個討論但因為畢竟\n\n18\n00:06:34,285 --> 00:07:00,923\n畢竟共軍擾台現在這個狀況從五月到九月是增加了去年的數目是三百多次變一千多次是增加了三倍那麼多那如果增加了三倍那麼多這一件事情有沒有可能再被討論的空間那當然我知道其他的人可能會覺得說那為什麼是他們可以我們不行但我總覺得畢竟在現在的灰色地帶的硬處之下這件事情是不是有一個考慮的空間跟委員報告今天就是說\n\n19\n00:07:02,472 --> 00:07:19,340\n各項的加級有很多種我們現在正在研議就是說志願役本身的一個加級的增加另外當然對於一些邊線比比較低的我們也要來增加\n\n20\n00:07:20,260 --> 00:07:41,454\n但是就如您所講的就是說它增加這個部分又會跟其他的大家都會做比較所以我現在正在已經開了很多次會議了我們不斷地在做一個通盤就是說大家都能夠取得一個平衡\n\n21\n00:07:43,817 --> 00:07:58,015\n有些家族他又可以兼領有些家族他是又不可以兼領所以這個相關的部分他都認為他的部隊辛苦也很重要那所以在這個家族之間的這個平衡的這個部分\n\n22\n00:07:59,377 --> 00:08:13,091\n我們現在正在做一個通盤的一個檢討我希望完了之後我們還要跟內部還要擴大來討論一下那大家都覺得沒有問題我們會提出來這樣子\n\n23\n00:08:16,374 --> 00:08:33,656\n因為我覺得總是到最後一定要有一個結論那因為不管怎樣就是現在大家就是比較辛苦那方案有各式各樣像我剛剛講的不管是休假的折算金的部分還是說單項單次的一些獎勵的部分又或者說像這種比較普遍性的佳績不是說三個都一定要全部都有\n\n24\n00:08:33,996 --> 00:09:02,768\n但是總是可以有一些方案被討論看看那還有一個很大的原因就是因為畢竟人事相關的這個費用他比較不會受到我們剛剛講的財化法的影響反而是軍購這些的那我是很希望至少我們現在因為財化法很可能會影響到我們的軍購啊我們的研發武器啊等等之類的但至少我們趁這個時候把人事的部分把它維持住我覺得這個也是提振一個世界的好方式是是所以我們會往這方面來努力好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t2010\t有請部長,謝謝來,部長請部長好,那這個因為時間有限我大部分是要問預算的問題但是在這個之前剛好這次有發生一個時事就是這一個吳小林委員他有提案要去刪這一個9條之3的規定那我知道國防部之前其實也已經有做過相關的這個懲處\n29039\t52548\t那我想問一下就是因為畢竟這件事情在另外這個王定宇委員跟林楚瑜委員其實也有提案他是要把九之三修的更多譬如說包含這個配合中國具有統戰目的的政治宣傳的行為那我想問一下部長就是說這個因為現在當然他們現在簽的人是不夠啦看起來可能不會提案但不知道這個提案當時他們有沒有跟國防部知會過或者討論過這件事情\n53448\t74669\t您說翁委員嗎?對,翁委員的提案我個人沒有,不知道因為我覺得這件事情畢竟對我們來講這一個是我們今天對於退將去參與統戰的行為的規範就已經非常少了甚至有不夠細緻的問題所以照理說我們要修的方向應該是要把它變得更細緻才對那如果拿掉的話對我們不管是在\n75309\t90006\t這一個對於國人的交代或者說在軍隊內部的士氣我覺得會有很重大的影響那我是希望如果之後還有類似的提案國防部能夠堅守原本的一個態度那不然的話呢如果像這樣的一個情勢發生的話國家安全的守護可能會出問題\n91178\t118079\t那這個接下來這個我就先放在旁邊我想問一下預算的問題那現在預算來講就是有第一個是財化法通過的問題這個上次我在博富的時候我有先稍微提過那當然極端的情形會刪到2700多億我覺得這個太極端了但如果我們用主祭出的算法假設每一個都去刪到三分之一到四分之一的話那財化法通過最後\n119561\t142359\t國防預算會被刪有可能是一千六百多億這是比較保守的算法那一千六百多億現在被刪的話呢軍事投資本身就是一千四左右所以簡單來講就是軍事投資有可能會全部都沒有啦然後還必須再從作業維持再刪掉一百九十五億那因為上次是跟伯父講上次因為部長不在那不知道現在國防部對這件事情有沒有什麼因應的做法\n144117\t165615\t我想財化法的通過如果影響到這個我們年度的國防預算的這個穩定的成長的話我想這個對於我們這個要自我防衛的能力的一個建構以及這個有盟國家對於我們有沒有自我防衛的能力的決心應該會有所質疑這樣\n166395\t172844\t對,而且軍事投資的部分因為我知道有一些比如說軍事的採購啊等等之類他是已經簽約了啦那已經簽約的話如果這個預算沒有編出來那該怎麼辦\n175836\t196988\t就持續案的部分一直有相當大的一個金額在軍事投資的部分那持續案的部分應該是要持續編列下去如果沒有編列下去的話那這個會構成對我們相關的這些不管是自主的研發生產或者是我們軍購的都會構成重大的影響\n197888\t223056\t我相信這一個月很有可能這件事情一定會走到協商這一個地步那在總預算審查的時間這件事情如果也同步是在協商的階段他們有可能會針對金額去討論說到底要刪哪裡啊到底中央能夠去被割掉多少啊那個時候我們很需要國防部能夠表達意見不然的話因為對於很多地方財政來講他們第一個想到的就會想說反正國防是中央的事情要砍第一個先砍國防\n224256\t251890\t國防的金額又夠大所以如果要湊到他們講的那個額度的話國防一定是首當其衝那希望在協商的時候國防不能夠來表達意見是我們對我們必要的這些有關人員維持作業維持跟軍事投資的部分當然我們非常的不希望因為這樣子的任何法案的通過造成對於國防編列的這個影響特別是在這一個關鍵的時刻\n253631\t282811\t謝謝顧部長那接下來我想問一下跟剛剛馬委員問的問題有點類似就是加班費的問題就是這個我先跳過但是這個畢竟就是我們現在供給腦台變得越來越多了那大家的這個作業不管是加班等等之類的情形也越來越多那我其實現在就有可能一個情形就是加班真的是加不完太多了但現在也有休假就是沒有辦法去休的問題所以現在就是說因為之前休不完有時候會說那把它弄到明年但明年一定也休不到\n283571\t311841\t那這個修不完呢有一個方式可能就是做則算補貼因為2023年的時候大法官有解釋就是說呢可以放寬一下那樣的一個定義就是軍人是一個廣義的公務人員所以我們不知道有沒有機會請國防部來盤點一下這件事情就是說呢就是這個2024年現在累積的這個假期的天數然後有沒有機會譬如說假設他今天真的修不到了因為畢竟現在業務太繁忙人也不夠有沒有機會用什麼則算金或者其他的方式\n312481\t324481\t那這個是不是可以請國防部在一個月之內能夠研擬相關的方案讓我們在預算討論的時候能夠去看有沒有辦法讓這些過度忙碌的官兵至少有一個休假休不到但他至少有一個補償\n328394\t347544\t包委員我們回去持續再做一個沒問題希望是在預算的這一個時候因為我覺得這個畢竟 因為他休假休不到嘛你看他太忙了那另外也順便我再問另外一件事情就是就是因為現在大家忙那在民間我們常常會講四人薪僱三員工作五份工那現在當然是\n348064\t364117\t以公務機關來講不可能用四人薪然後呢雇三員工做五份工但現在現實的狀況是大家會過度的忙碌所以剛剛第一個我們想到的就是休假這個部分有沒有折算金的問題那第二個就是呢這是國防部大概行政上就可以去運作的不管是我們之前\n364577\t391584\t在考察的加菜金啊什麼等等之類的我覺得這個部分就一起做研擬但我接下來想要問的是這一個就是因為在之前呢因為現在海空威脅越來越多然後我們當時有看到國防部內部有這樣的一個討論就是說呢這個海空呢針對這些海企然後這飛行的家籍啦那這個家籍當時這個方案被提出來之後呢在各軍種之間好像也有一些矛盾啦就是說那為什麼他們家沒有家就是有這個討論但因為畢竟\n394285\t420923\t畢竟共軍擾台現在這個狀況從五月到九月是增加了去年的數目是三百多次變一千多次是增加了三倍那麼多那如果增加了三倍那麼多這一件事情有沒有可能再被討論的空間那當然我知道其他的人可能會覺得說那為什麼是他們可以我們不行但我總覺得畢竟在現在的灰色地帶的硬處之下這件事情是不是有一個考慮的空間跟委員報告今天就是說\n422472\t439340\t各項的加級有很多種我們現在正在研議就是說志願役本身的一個加級的增加另外當然對於一些邊線比比較低的我們也要來增加\n440260\t461454\t但是就如您所講的就是說它增加這個部分又會跟其他的大家都會做比較所以我現在正在已經開了很多次會議了我們不斷地在做一個通盤就是說大家都能夠取得一個平衡\n463817\t478015\t有些家族他又可以兼領有些家族他是又不可以兼領所以這個相關的部分他都認為他的部隊辛苦也很重要那所以在這個家族之間的這個平衡的這個部分\n479377\t493091\t我們現在正在做一個通盤的一個檢討我希望完了之後我們還要跟內部還要擴大來討論一下那大家都覺得沒有問題我們會提出來這樣子\n496374\t513656\t因為我覺得總是到最後一定要有一個結論那因為不管怎樣就是現在大家就是比較辛苦那方案有各式各樣像我剛剛講的不管是休假的折算金的部分還是說單項單次的一些獎勵的部分又或者說像這種比較普遍性的佳績不是說三個都一定要全部都有\n513996\t542768\t但是總是可以有一些方案被討論看看那還有一個很大的原因就是因為畢竟人事相關的這個費用他比較不會受到我們剛剛講的財化法的影響反而是軍購這些的那我是很希望至少我們現在因為財化法很可能會影響到我們的軍購啊我們的研發武器啊等等之類的但至少我們趁這個時候把人事的部分把它維持住我覺得這個也是提振一個世界的好方式是是所以我們會往這方面來努力好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n","txt":"有請部長,謝謝來,部長請部長好,那這個因為時間有限我大部分是要問預算的問題但是在這個之前剛好這次有發生一個時事就是這一個吳小林委員他有提案要去刪這一個9條之3的規定那我知道國防部之前其實也已經有做過相關的這個懲處\n那我想問一下就是因為畢竟這件事情在另外這個王定宇委員跟林楚瑜委員其實也有提案他是要把九之三修的更多譬如說包含這個配合中國具有統戰目的的政治宣傳的行為那我想問一下部長就是說這個因為現在當然他們現在簽的人是不夠啦看起來可能不會提案但不知道這個提案當時他們有沒有跟國防部知會過或者討論過這件事情\n您說翁委員嗎?對,翁委員的提案我個人沒有,不知道因為我覺得這件事情畢竟對我們來講這一個是我們今天對於退將去參與統戰的行為的規範就已經非常少了甚至有不夠細緻的問題所以照理說我們要修的方向應該是要把它變得更細緻才對那如果拿掉的話對我們不管是在\n這一個對於國人的交代或者說在軍隊內部的士氣我覺得會有很重大的影響那我是希望如果之後還有類似的提案國防部能夠堅守原本的一個態度那不然的話呢如果像這樣的一個情勢發生的話國家安全的守護可能會出問題\n那這個接下來這個我就先放在旁邊我想問一下預算的問題那現在預算來講就是有第一個是財化法通過的問題這個上次我在博富的時候我有先稍微提過那當然極端的情形會刪到2700多億我覺得這個太極端了但如果我們用主祭出的算法假設每一個都去刪到三分之一到四分之一的話那財化法通過最後\n國防預算會被刪有可能是一千六百多億這是比較保守的算法那一千六百多億現在被刪的話呢軍事投資本身就是一千四左右所以簡單來講就是軍事投資有可能會全部都沒有啦然後還必須再從作業維持再刪掉一百九十五億那因為上次是跟伯父講上次因為部長不在那不知道現在國防部對這件事情有沒有什麼因應的做法\n我想財化法的通過如果影響到這個我們年度的國防預算的這個穩定的成長的話我想這個對於我們這個要自我防衛的能力的一個建構以及這個有盟國家對於我們有沒有自我防衛的能力的決心應該會有所質疑這樣\n對,而且軍事投資的部分因為我知道有一些比如說軍事的採購啊等等之類他是已經簽約了啦那已經簽約的話如果這個預算沒有編出來那該怎麼辦\n就持續案的部分一直有相當大的一個金額在軍事投資的部分那持續案的部分應該是要持續編列下去如果沒有編列下去的話那這個會構成對我們相關的這些不管是自主的研發生產或者是我們軍購的都會構成重大的影響\n我相信這一個月很有可能這件事情一定會走到協商這一個地步那在總預算審查的時間這件事情如果也同步是在協商的階段他們有可能會針對金額去討論說到底要刪哪裡啊到底中央能夠去被割掉多少啊那個時候我們很需要國防部能夠表達意見不然的話因為對於很多地方財政來講他們第一個想到的就會想說反正國防是中央的事情要砍第一個先砍國防\n國防的金額又夠大所以如果要湊到他們講的那個額度的話國防一定是首當其衝那希望在協商的時候國防不能夠來表達意見是我們對我們必要的這些有關人員維持作業維持跟軍事投資的部分當然我們非常的不希望因為這樣子的任何法案的通過造成對於國防編列的這個影響特別是在這一個關鍵的時刻\n謝謝顧部長那接下來我想問一下跟剛剛馬委員問的問題有點類似就是加班費的問題就是這個我先跳過但是這個畢竟就是我們現在供給腦台變得越來越多了那大家的這個作業不管是加班等等之類的情形也越來越多那我其實現在就有可能一個情形就是加班真的是加不完太多了但現在也有休假就是沒有辦法去休的問題所以現在就是說因為之前休不完有時候會說那把它弄到明年但明年一定也休不到\n那這個修不完呢有一個方式可能就是做則算補貼因為2023年的時候大法官有解釋就是說呢可以放寬一下那樣的一個定義就是軍人是一個廣義的公務人員所以我們不知道有沒有機會請國防部來盤點一下這件事情就是說呢就是這個2024年現在累積的這個假期的天數然後有沒有機會譬如說假設他今天真的修不到了因為畢竟現在業務太繁忙人也不夠有沒有機會用什麼則算金或者其他的方式\n那這個是不是可以請國防部在一個月之內能夠研擬相關的方案讓我們在預算討論的時候能夠去看有沒有辦法讓這些過度忙碌的官兵至少有一個休假休不到但他至少有一個補償\n包委員我們回去持續再做一個沒問題希望是在預算的這一個時候因為我覺得這個畢竟 因為他休假休不到嘛你看他太忙了那另外也順便我再問另外一件事情就是就是因為現在大家忙那在民間我們常常會講四人薪僱三員工作五份工那現在當然是\n以公務機關來講不可能用四人薪然後呢雇三員工做五份工但現在現實的狀況是大家會過度的忙碌所以剛剛第一個我們想到的就是休假這個部分有沒有折算金的問題那第二個就是呢這是國防部大概行政上就可以去運作的不管是我們之前\n在考察的加菜金啊什麼等等之類的我覺得這個部分就一起做研擬但我接下來想要問的是這一個就是因為在之前呢因為現在海空威脅越來越多然後我們當時有看到國防部內部有這樣的一個討論就是說呢這個海空呢針對這些海企然後這飛行的家籍啦那這個家籍當時這個方案被提出來之後呢在各軍種之間好像也有一些矛盾啦就是說那為什麼他們家沒有家就是有這個討論但因為畢竟\n畢竟共軍擾台現在這個狀況從五月到九月是增加了去年的數目是三百多次變一千多次是增加了三倍那麼多那如果增加了三倍那麼多這一件事情有沒有可能再被討論的空間那當然我知道其他的人可能會覺得說那為什麼是他們可以我們不行但我總覺得畢竟在現在的灰色地帶的硬處之下這件事情是不是有一個考慮的空間跟委員報告今天就是說\n各項的加級有很多種我們現在正在研議就是說志願役本身的一個加級的增加另外當然對於一些邊線比比較低的我們也要來增加\n但是就如您所講的就是說它增加這個部分又會跟其他的大家都會做比較所以我現在正在已經開了很多次會議了我們不斷地在做一個通盤就是說大家都能夠取得一個平衡\n有些家族他又可以兼領有些家族他是又不可以兼領所以這個相關的部分他都認為他的部隊辛苦也很重要那所以在這個家族之間的這個平衡的這個部分\n我們現在正在做一個通盤的一個檢討我希望完了之後我們還要跟內部還要擴大來討論一下那大家都覺得沒有問題我們會提出來這樣子\n因為我覺得總是到最後一定要有一個結論那因為不管怎樣就是現在大家就是比較辛苦那方案有各式各樣像我剛剛講的不管是休假的折算金的部分還是說單項單次的一些獎勵的部分又或者說像這種比較普遍性的佳績不是說三個都一定要全部都有\n但是總是可以有一些方案被討論看看那還有一個很大的原因就是因為畢竟人事相關的這個費用他比較不會受到我們剛剛講的財化法的影響反而是軍購這些的那我是很希望至少我們現在因為財化法很可能會影響到我們的軍購啊我們的研發武器啊等等之類的但至少我們趁這個時候把人事的部分把它維持住我覺得這個也是提振一個世界的好方式是是所以我們會往這方面來努力好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:02.010\n有請部長,謝謝來,部長請部長好,那這個因為時間有限我大部分是要問預算的問題但是在這個之前剛好這次有發生一個時事就是這一個吳小林委員他有提案要去刪這一個9條之3的規定那我知道國防部之前其實也已經有做過相關的這個懲處\n\n00:29.039 --> 00:52.548\n那我想問一下就是因為畢竟這件事情在另外這個王定宇委員跟林楚瑜委員其實也有提案他是要把九之三修的更多譬如說包含這個配合中國具有統戰目的的政治宣傳的行為那我想問一下部長就是說這個因為現在當然他們現在簽的人是不夠啦看起來可能不會提案但不知道這個提案當時他們有沒有跟國防部知會過或者討論過這件事情\n\n00:53.448 --> 01:14.669\n您說翁委員嗎?對,翁委員的提案我個人沒有,不知道因為我覺得這件事情畢竟對我們來講這一個是我們今天對於退將去參與統戰的行為的規範就已經非常少了甚至有不夠細緻的問題所以照理說我們要修的方向應該是要把它變得更細緻才對那如果拿掉的話對我們不管是在\n\n01:15.309 --> 01:30.006\n這一個對於國人的交代或者說在軍隊內部的士氣我覺得會有很重大的影響那我是希望如果之後還有類似的提案國防部能夠堅守原本的一個態度那不然的話呢如果像這樣的一個情勢發生的話國家安全的守護可能會出問題\n\n01:31.178 --> 01:58.079\n那這個接下來這個我就先放在旁邊我想問一下預算的問題那現在預算來講就是有第一個是財化法通過的問題這個上次我在博富的時候我有先稍微提過那當然極端的情形會刪到2700多億我覺得這個太極端了但如果我們用主祭出的算法假設每一個都去刪到三分之一到四分之一的話那財化法通過最後\n\n01:59.561 --> 02:22.359\n國防預算會被刪有可能是一千六百多億這是比較保守的算法那一千六百多億現在被刪的話呢軍事投資本身就是一千四左右所以簡單來講就是軍事投資有可能會全部都沒有啦然後還必須再從作業維持再刪掉一百九十五億那因為上次是跟伯父講上次因為部長不在那不知道現在國防部對這件事情有沒有什麼因應的做法\n\n02:24.117 --> 02:45.615\n我想財化法的通過如果影響到這個我們年度的國防預算的這個穩定的成長的話我想這個對於我們這個要自我防衛的能力的一個建構以及這個有盟國家對於我們有沒有自我防衛的能力的決心應該會有所質疑這樣\n\n02:46.395 --> 02:52.844\n對,而且軍事投資的部分因為我知道有一些比如說軍事的採購啊等等之類他是已經簽約了啦那已經簽約的話如果這個預算沒有編出來那該怎麼辦\n\n02:55.836 --> 03:16.988\n就持續案的部分一直有相當大的一個金額在軍事投資的部分那持續案的部分應該是要持續編列下去如果沒有編列下去的話那這個會構成對我們相關的這些不管是自主的研發生產或者是我們軍購的都會構成重大的影響\n\n03:17.888 --> 03:43.056\n我相信這一個月很有可能這件事情一定會走到協商這一個地步那在總預算審查的時間這件事情如果也同步是在協商的階段他們有可能會針對金額去討論說到底要刪哪裡啊到底中央能夠去被割掉多少啊那個時候我們很需要國防部能夠表達意見不然的話因為對於很多地方財政來講他們第一個想到的就會想說反正國防是中央的事情要砍第一個先砍國防\n\n03:44.256 --> 04:11.890\n國防的金額又夠大所以如果要湊到他們講的那個額度的話國防一定是首當其衝那希望在協商的時候國防不能夠來表達意見是我們對我們必要的這些有關人員維持作業維持跟軍事投資的部分當然我們非常的不希望因為這樣子的任何法案的通過造成對於國防編列的這個影響特別是在這一個關鍵的時刻\n\n04:13.631 --> 04:42.811\n謝謝顧部長那接下來我想問一下跟剛剛馬委員問的問題有點類似就是加班費的問題就是這個我先跳過但是這個畢竟就是我們現在供給腦台變得越來越多了那大家的這個作業不管是加班等等之類的情形也越來越多那我其實現在就有可能一個情形就是加班真的是加不完太多了但現在也有休假就是沒有辦法去休的問題所以現在就是說因為之前休不完有時候會說那把它弄到明年但明年一定也休不到\n\n04:43.571 --> 05:11.841\n那這個修不完呢有一個方式可能就是做則算補貼因為2023年的時候大法官有解釋就是說呢可以放寬一下那樣的一個定義就是軍人是一個廣義的公務人員所以我們不知道有沒有機會請國防部來盤點一下這件事情就是說呢就是這個2024年現在累積的這個假期的天數然後有沒有機會譬如說假設他今天真的修不到了因為畢竟現在業務太繁忙人也不夠有沒有機會用什麼則算金或者其他的方式\n\n05:12.481 --> 05:24.481\n那這個是不是可以請國防部在一個月之內能夠研擬相關的方案讓我們在預算討論的時候能夠去看有沒有辦法讓這些過度忙碌的官兵至少有一個休假休不到但他至少有一個補償\n\n05:28.394 --> 05:47.544\n包委員我們回去持續再做一個沒問題希望是在預算的這一個時候因為我覺得這個畢竟因為他休假休不到嘛你看他太忙了那另外也順便我再問另外一件事情就是就是因為現在大家忙那在民間我們常常會講四人薪僱三員工作五份工那現在當然是\n\n05:48.064 --> 06:04.117\n以公務機關來講不可能用四人薪然後呢雇三員工做五份工但現在現實的狀況是大家會過度的忙碌所以剛剛第一個我們想到的就是休假這個部分有沒有折算金的問題那第二個就是呢這是國防部大概行政上就可以去運作的不管是我們之前\n\n06:04.577 --> 06:31.584\n在考察的加菜金啊什麼等等之類的我覺得這個部分就一起做研擬但我接下來想要問的是這一個就是因為在之前呢因為現在海空威脅越來越多然後我們當時有看到國防部內部有這樣的一個討論就是說呢這個海空呢針對這些海企然後這飛行的家籍啦那這個家籍當時這個方案被提出來之後呢在各軍種之間好像也有一些矛盾啦就是說那為什麼他們家沒有家就是有這個討論但因為畢竟\n\n06:34.285 --> 07:00.923\n畢竟共軍擾台現在這個狀況從五月到九月是增加了去年的數目是三百多次變一千多次是增加了三倍那麼多那如果增加了三倍那麼多這一件事情有沒有可能再被討論的空間那當然我知道其他的人可能會覺得說那為什麼是他們可以我們不行但我總覺得畢竟在現在的灰色地帶的硬處之下這件事情是不是有一個考慮的空間跟委員報告今天就是說\n\n07:02.472 --> 07:19.340\n各項的加級有很多種我們現在正在研議就是說志願役本身的一個加級的增加另外當然對於一些邊線比比較低的我們也要來增加\n\n07:20.260 --> 07:41.454\n但是就如您所講的就是說它增加這個部分又會跟其他的大家都會做比較所以我現在正在已經開了很多次會議了我們不斷地在做一個通盤就是說大家都能夠取得一個平衡\n\n07:43.817 --> 07:58.015\n有些家族他又可以兼領有些家族他是又不可以兼領所以這個相關的部分他都認為他的部隊辛苦也很重要那所以在這個家族之間的這個平衡的這個部分\n\n07:59.377 --> 08:13.091\n我們現在正在做一個通盤的一個檢討我希望完了之後我們還要跟內部還要擴大來討論一下那大家都覺得沒有問題我們會提出來這樣子\n\n08:16.374 --> 08:33.656\n因為我覺得總是到最後一定要有一個結論那因為不管怎樣就是現在大家就是比較辛苦那方案有各式各樣像我剛剛講的不管是休假的折算金的部分還是說單項單次的一些獎勵的部分又或者說像這種比較普遍性的佳績不是說三個都一定要全部都有\n\n08:33.996 --> 09:02.768\n但是總是可以有一些方案被討論看看那還有一個很大的原因就是因為畢竟人事相關的這個費用他比較不會受到我們剛剛講的財化法的影響反而是軍購這些的那我是很希望至少我們現在因為財化法很可能會影響到我們的軍購啊我們的研發武器啊等等之類的但至少我們趁這個時候把人事的部分把它維持住我覺得這個也是提振一個世界的好方式是是所以我們會往這方面來努力好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":2.01,"text":"有請部長,謝謝來,部長請部長好,那這個因為時間有限我大部分是要問預算的問題但是在這個之前剛好這次有發生一個時事就是這一個吳小林委員他有提案要去刪這一個9條之3的規定那我知道國防部之前其實也已經有做過相關的這個懲處"},{"start":29.039,"end":52.548,"text":"那我想問一下就是因為畢竟這件事情在另外這個王定宇委員跟林楚瑜委員其實也有提案他是要把九之三修的更多譬如說包含這個配合中國具有統戰目的的政治宣傳的行為那我想問一下部長就是說這個因為現在當然他們現在簽的人是不夠啦看起來可能不會提案但不知道這個提案當時他們有沒有跟國防部知會過或者討論過這件事情"},{"start":53.448,"end":74.669,"text":"您說翁委員嗎?對,翁委員的提案我個人沒有,不知道因為我覺得這件事情畢竟對我們來講這一個是我們今天對於退將去參與統戰的行為的規範就已經非常少了甚至有不夠細緻的問題所以照理說我們要修的方向應該是要把它變得更細緻才對那如果拿掉的話對我們不管是在"},{"start":75.309,"end":90.006,"text":"這一個對於國人的交代或者說在軍隊內部的士氣我覺得會有很重大的影響那我是希望如果之後還有類似的提案國防部能夠堅守原本的一個態度那不然的話呢如果像這樣的一個情勢發生的話國家安全的守護可能會出問題"},{"start":91.178,"end":118.079,"text":"那這個接下來這個我就先放在旁邊我想問一下預算的問題那現在預算來講就是有第一個是財化法通過的問題這個上次我在博富的時候我有先稍微提過那當然極端的情形會刪到2700多億我覺得這個太極端了但如果我們用主祭出的算法假設每一個都去刪到三分之一到四分之一的話那財化法通過最後"},{"start":119.561,"end":142.359,"text":"國防預算會被刪有可能是一千六百多億這是比較保守的算法那一千六百多億現在被刪的話呢軍事投資本身就是一千四左右所以簡單來講就是軍事投資有可能會全部都沒有啦然後還必須再從作業維持再刪掉一百九十五億那因為上次是跟伯父講上次因為部長不在那不知道現在國防部對這件事情有沒有什麼因應的做法"},{"start":144.117,"end":165.615,"text":"我想財化法的通過如果影響到這個我們年度的國防預算的這個穩定的成長的話我想這個對於我們這個要自我防衛的能力的一個建構以及這個有盟國家對於我們有沒有自我防衛的能力的決心應該會有所質疑這樣"},{"start":166.395,"end":172.844,"text":"對,而且軍事投資的部分因為我知道有一些比如說軍事的採購啊等等之類他是已經簽約了啦那已經簽約的話如果這個預算沒有編出來那該怎麼辦"},{"start":175.836,"end":196.988,"text":"就持續案的部分一直有相當大的一個金額在軍事投資的部分那持續案的部分應該是要持續編列下去如果沒有編列下去的話那這個會構成對我們相關的這些不管是自主的研發生產或者是我們軍購的都會構成重大的影響"},{"start":197.888,"end":223.056,"text":"我相信這一個月很有可能這件事情一定會走到協商這一個地步那在總預算審查的時間這件事情如果也同步是在協商的階段他們有可能會針對金額去討論說到底要刪哪裡啊到底中央能夠去被割掉多少啊那個時候我們很需要國防部能夠表達意見不然的話因為對於很多地方財政來講他們第一個想到的就會想說反正國防是中央的事情要砍第一個先砍國防"},{"start":224.256,"end":251.89,"text":"國防的金額又夠大所以如果要湊到他們講的那個額度的話國防一定是首當其衝那希望在協商的時候國防不能夠來表達意見是我們對我們必要的這些有關人員維持作業維持跟軍事投資的部分當然我們非常的不希望因為這樣子的任何法案的通過造成對於國防編列的這個影響特別是在這一個關鍵的時刻"},{"start":253.631,"end":282.811,"text":"謝謝顧部長那接下來我想問一下跟剛剛馬委員問的問題有點類似就是加班費的問題就是這個我先跳過但是這個畢竟就是我們現在供給腦台變得越來越多了那大家的這個作業不管是加班等等之類的情形也越來越多那我其實現在就有可能一個情形就是加班真的是加不完太多了但現在也有休假就是沒有辦法去休的問題所以現在就是說因為之前休不完有時候會說那把它弄到明年但明年一定也休不到"},{"start":283.571,"end":311.841,"text":"那這個修不完呢有一個方式可能就是做則算補貼因為2023年的時候大法官有解釋就是說呢可以放寬一下那樣的一個定義就是軍人是一個廣義的公務人員所以我們不知道有沒有機會請國防部來盤點一下這件事情就是說呢就是這個2024年現在累積的這個假期的天數然後有沒有機會譬如說假設他今天真的修不到了因為畢竟現在業務太繁忙人也不夠有沒有機會用什麼則算金或者其他的方式"},{"start":312.481,"end":324.481,"text":"那這個是不是可以請國防部在一個月之內能夠研擬相關的方案讓我們在預算討論的時候能夠去看有沒有辦法讓這些過度忙碌的官兵至少有一個休假休不到但他至少有一個補償"},{"start":328.394,"end":347.544,"text":"包委員我們回去持續再做一個沒問題希望是在預算的這一個時候因為我覺得這個畢竟 因為他休假休不到嘛你看他太忙了那另外也順便我再問另外一件事情就是就是因為現在大家忙那在民間我們常常會講四人薪僱三員工作五份工那現在當然是"},{"start":348.064,"end":364.117,"text":"以公務機關來講不可能用四人薪然後呢雇三員工做五份工但現在現實的狀況是大家會過度的忙碌所以剛剛第一個我們想到的就是休假這個部分有沒有折算金的問題那第二個就是呢這是國防部大概行政上就可以去運作的不管是我們之前"},{"start":364.577,"end":391.584,"text":"在考察的加菜金啊什麼等等之類的我覺得這個部分就一起做研擬但我接下來想要問的是這一個就是因為在之前呢因為現在海空威脅越來越多然後我們當時有看到國防部內部有這樣的一個討論就是說呢這個海空呢針對這些海企然後這飛行的家籍啦那這個家籍當時這個方案被提出來之後呢在各軍種之間好像也有一些矛盾啦就是說那為什麼他們家沒有家就是有這個討論但因為畢竟"},{"start":394.285,"end":420.923,"text":"畢竟共軍擾台現在這個狀況從五月到九月是增加了去年的數目是三百多次變一千多次是增加了三倍那麼多那如果增加了三倍那麼多這一件事情有沒有可能再被討論的空間那當然我知道其他的人可能會覺得說那為什麼是他們可以我們不行但我總覺得畢竟在現在的灰色地帶的硬處之下這件事情是不是有一個考慮的空間跟委員報告今天就是說"},{"start":422.472,"end":439.34,"text":"各項的加級有很多種我們現在正在研議就是說志願役本身的一個加級的增加另外當然對於一些邊線比比較低的我們也要來增加"},{"start":440.26,"end":461.454,"text":"但是就如您所講的就是說它增加這個部分又會跟其他的大家都會做比較所以我現在正在已經開了很多次會議了我們不斷地在做一個通盤就是說大家都能夠取得一個平衡"},{"start":463.817,"end":478.015,"text":"有些家族他又可以兼領有些家族他是又不可以兼領所以這個相關的部分他都認為他的部隊辛苦也很重要那所以在這個家族之間的這個平衡的這個部分"},{"start":479.377,"end":493.091,"text":"我們現在正在做一個通盤的一個檢討我希望完了之後我們還要跟內部還要擴大來討論一下那大家都覺得沒有問題我們會提出來這樣子"},{"start":496.374,"end":513.656,"text":"因為我覺得總是到最後一定要有一個結論那因為不管怎樣就是現在大家就是比較辛苦那方案有各式各樣像我剛剛講的不管是休假的折算金的部分還是說單項單次的一些獎勵的部分又或者說像這種比較普遍性的佳績不是說三個都一定要全部都有"},{"start":513.996,"end":542.768,"text":"但是總是可以有一些方案被討論看看那還有一個很大的原因就是因為畢竟人事相關的這個費用他比較不會受到我們剛剛講的財化法的影響反而是軍購這些的那我是很希望至少我們現在因為財化法很可能會影響到我們的軍購啊我們的研發武器啊等等之類的但至少我們趁這個時候把人事的部分把它維持住我覺得這個也是提振一個世界的好方式是是所以我們會往這方面來努力好謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":415,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（10時58分）謝謝主席，有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：沈委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：部長好。因為時間有限，我大部分是要問預算的問題，但是在這個之前，剛好這次有發生一個時事，就是翁曉玲委員有提案要去刪臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條之三的規定，我知道國防部之前其實也已經有做過相關的懲處。我想問一下，畢竟這件事情，另外王定宇委員跟林楚茵委員其實也有提案，他是要把第九條之三修得更多，譬如說包含配合中國具有統戰目的政治宣傳的行為。我想問一下部長，當然他們現在簽的人是不夠，看起來可能不會提案，但不知道這個提案，當時他們有沒有跟國防部知會過，或者討論過這件事情？"],["顧部長立雄：您說翁委員嗎？"],["沈委員伯洋：對，翁委員的提案。"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，我個人不知道。"],["沈委員伯洋：OK，因為我覺得這件事情對我們來講，畢竟我們今天對於退將去參與統戰行為的規範就已經非常少了，甚至有不夠細緻的問題，所以照理我們要修的方向應該是要把它變得更細緻才對，如果拿掉的話，我們不管是對國人交代，或者說在軍隊內部的士氣，我覺得會有很重大的影響啦！我是希望如果之後還有類似的提案，國防部能夠堅守原本的態度，不然如果像這樣的一個情事發生的話，國家安全的守護可能會出問題。","這個我就先放在旁邊，接下來我想問一下預算的問題。現在預算來講，第一個是財劃法通過的問題，這個上次我在柏副來的時候有先稍微提過。當然極端的情形會刪到兩千七百多億，我覺得這個太極端了。但如果我們用主計處的算法，假設每一個都去刪到1/3到1/4的話，那財劃法通過，最後國防預算會被刪有可能是一千六百多億，這是比較保守的算法。一千六百多億現在被刪的話，軍事投資本身就是1,400億左右。所以簡單來講，就是軍事投資有可能會全部都沒有啦！然後還必須再從作業維持刪掉195億。因為上次部長不在，我是跟柏副講，不知道現在國防部對這件事情有沒有什麼因應的作法？"],["顧部長立雄：我想財劃法的通過如果影響到我們年度國防預算的穩定成長的話，對於我們自我防衛能力的建構，以及友盟國家對於我們有沒有自我防衛能力的決心應該會有所質疑。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，而且軍事投資的部分，我知道有一些譬如說軍事的採購等等之類是已經簽約了。已經簽約的話，如果這個預算沒有編出來，那該怎麼辦？"],["顧部長立雄：就持續案的部分，一直有相當大的一個金額在軍事投資的部分。持續案的部分應該是要持續編列下去，如果沒有編列下去的話，那對於我們相關不管是自主的研發生產，或者是軍購都會構成重大的影響。"],["沈委員伯洋：我相信這一個月很有可能這件事情一定會走到協商這一個地步啦！在總預算審查的時間，這件事情如果也同步是在協商的階段，他們有可能會針對金額去討論說到底要刪哪裡、到底中央能夠被割掉多少等等，那個時候我們很需要國防部能夠表達意見。不然的話，對於很多地方財政來講，他們第一個想到的就會是，反正國防是中央的事情，要砍第一個先砍國防，國防的金額又夠大。所以如果要湊到他們講的那個額度的話，國防一定是首當其衝。希望在協商的時候，國防部能夠來表達意見。"],["顧部長立雄：是，對於我們必要的有關人員維持、作業維持跟軍事投資的部分，當然我們非常地不希望因為任何法案的通過，造成對於國防編列的影響，特別是在這一個關鍵的時刻。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝顧部長。接下來我想問一下，跟剛剛馬委員問的問題有點類似，就是加班費的問題。這個我先跳過。現在共機擾臺變得越來越多了，大家的作業，不管是加班等等之類的情形也越來越多。其實現在就可能有一個情形，就是加班真的是加不完，太多了！但現在也有休假沒有辦法休的問題。因為之前休不完，有時候會說那把它弄到明年，但明年一定也休不到啦！這個休不完有一個方式，可能就是折算補貼。","2023年的時候，大法官有解釋說可以放寬一下那樣的定義，就是軍人是一個廣義的公務人員。所以我們不知道有沒有機會請國防部盤點一下這件事情？就是2024年現在累積的假期天數，然後假設他今年真的休不到了，因為畢竟現在業務太繁忙，人也不夠，有沒有機會用什麼折算金或者其他的方式？這個是不是可以請國防部在一個月之內研擬相關的方案，讓我們在預算討論的時候，能夠去看有沒有辦法讓這些過度忙碌的官兵休假休不到，但他至少有一個補償？"],["鄧司長克雄：報告委員，我們回去持續再做一個……"],["沈委員伯洋：好，沒問題！希望是在預算的這一個時候，因為他休假休不到嘛！你了解嗎？他太忙了。另外我也順便再問一件事情，就是因為現在大家忙，在民間我們常常會講4人薪僱3員工做5份工。現在以公務機關來講，當然不可能用4人薪僱3員工做5份工，但現在現實的狀況是大家會過度地忙碌。所以剛剛第一個我們想到的就是休假這個部分有沒有折算金的問題？","第二個就是，這是國防部大概行政上就可以去運作的，不管是我們之前在考察的加菜金等等之類的，我覺得這個部分就一起研擬。但我接下來想要問的是，因為現在海空威脅越來越多，我們當時有看到國防部內部有這樣的一個討論，就是針對海勤飛行的加給。當時加給這個方案被提出來之後，在各軍種之間好像也有些矛盾，就是說為什麼他們加，我沒有加？就是有這個討論。但畢竟共軍擾臺的狀況從5月到9月是增加了，去年的數目是三百多次變一千多次，增加了3倍那麼多。如果增加了3倍那麼多，這件事情有沒有可能有再被討論的空間？當然我知道其他的人可能會覺得說為什麼他們可以，我們不行？但我總覺得畢竟在現在的灰色地帶的應處之下，這件事情是不是有一個考慮的空間？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，現在各項的加給有很多種，我們現在正在研議志願役本身加給的增加。另外對於一些編現比比較低的，我們也要來增加。但是就如您所講的，它增加這個部分，大家又會跟其他的比較。所以我們已經開了很多次會議了，我們不斷地在做通盤檢討，大家都能夠取得一個平衡。您知道有些加給可以兼領，有些加給又不可以兼領，相關的部分都認為他的部隊辛苦，也很重要，所以在加給之間平衡的部分，我們現在正在做一個通盤的檢討。我希望完了之後，我們內部還要擴大來討論一下，大家都覺得沒有問題，我們會提出來。"],["沈委員伯洋：因為我覺得總是到最後一定要有一個結論，不管怎樣，現在大家就是比較辛苦。方案有各式各樣，像我剛剛講的不管是休假折算金的部分，還是單項、單次的一些獎勵的部分，又或者像這一種比較普遍性的加給。不是說3個都一定要全部都有，但是總是可以有一些方案被討論看看。","還有一個很大的原因，畢竟人事相關的費用比較不會受到我們剛剛講的財劃法影響，反而是軍購這些的。現在因為財劃法很可能會影響到我們的軍購或研發武器等等之類的，但至少我們趁這個時候把人事的部分維持住，我覺得這也是一個提振士氣的好方式啦！"],["顧部長立雄：是，所以我們會往這方面來努力。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝沈伯洋委員，各位請回。","我們現在來處理臨時提案。這個臨時提案現在唸出來的文字，待會我們會請國防部順過之後，大家如果同意這文字順了、沒有問題了，我們就照案通過。","先請宣讀臨時提案。","針對外交及國防委員會之各預算報告（書面及電子），為防止有洩漏之疑慮，應將「作業維持費」中有關保密（額度部份不公開）全數於機密報告時再行提供。","提案人：王定宇　　羅美玲　　沈伯洋　　陳永康　　洪申翰　　黃　仁　　陳冠廷　　"],["主席：剛才國防部已經提出文字的修正，我認為國防部的文字寫得比較精準，各位委員聽一下。","國防部的文字調整為：「針對國防部主管預算編列於機密預算之軍事投資案，其採購作業費均編列於公開預算，為防止洩密疑慮，應將作業經費改為機密預算編列。」","以上文字各位有沒有意見？沒有意見的話，我們照案通過。","接下來進行詢答的委員是陳冠廷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}}