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127.501, \"end\": 127.621, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 127.621, \"end\": 127.682, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 127.682, \"end\": 127.782, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 127.782, \"end\": 127.882, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 127.882, \"end\": 127.902, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 127.902, \"end\": 127.922, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 130.163, \"end\": 154.542, \"text\": \"那等於 那我就請教了部長這個是行政院的這個主計總署的這個副主計長蔡文坤他有提到說如果這個按照國民黨的版本這個要這個有6612億的這個財源下去相關的事權應該要做調整然後呢 比如說那像健保老農津貼就應該回歸地方政府來辦理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 130.163, \"end\": 130.403, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 130.403, \"end\": 130.543, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 130.543, \"end\": 130.884, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 130.884, \"end\": 131.104, \"score\": 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\"我們待會我們查一下再跟委員報告那等於是說本來要借的沒有借對那要還債對那總預算的部分是沒有借特別預算有借對那還債預算原編的1150我們還了1158那到12月我們會再增加還債那如果有稅計剩餘的話財政部有什麼規劃的運用嗎稅計剩餘的話就會進到主計總處那邊去他作為以後年度的一個融資財源對那當然啦那我是說部長你有什麼樣的規劃嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 712.062, \"end\": 712.282, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 712.282, \"end\": 712.502, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 712.502, \"end\": 712.702, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 712.702, \"end\": 712.842, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 712.842, \"end\": 712.922, \"score\": 0.591}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 712.922, \"end\": 713.162, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 713.162, \"end\": 713.182, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 713.182, \"end\": 713.262, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 713.262, \"end\": 713.342, \"score\": 0.567}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 713.342, \"end\": 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781.784, \"end\": 782.064, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 782.064, \"end\": 783.004, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"昆\", \"start\": 783.004, \"end\": 783.224, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 783.224, \"end\": 783.705, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 783.705, \"end\": 783.865, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 783.865, \"end\": 784.405, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"伍\", \"start\": 784.405, \"end\": 784.565, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"麗\"}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 784.565, \"end\": 784.585, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,932 --> 00:00:25,868\n好請莊部長委員好部長好這個民進黨其實是委曲求全因為我們還是一致認為說上個禮拜三由陳玉珍、趙偉所通過的這一個三分鐘就通過了這個財務法完全不合理那完全沒有經過討論那送出去的法案其實是不合乎程序的\n\n2\n00:00:26,488 --> 00:00:34,335\n那尤其財劃法這麼重要的法案這個3分鐘就送過去那按照國民黨的這一個他們要通過的財劃法這個要增加6612億那中央只剩下1157億可以用\n\n3\n00:00:44,604 --> 00:00:51,568\n按照他們的版本來看在國稅的部分所得稅總收入從10%提高到25%就是說如果我們都用114年的預算來試算的話從1940億增加到4856億營業稅總收入他們從40%提高到100%\n\n4\n00:01:04,515 --> 00:01:18,651\n這個完全拿到地方然後這個114年預算試算是從2553億增加到6383億那地方這個土地的增值稅全部都由地方來做使用了那\n\n5\n00:01:19,552 --> 00:01:26,736\n按照國民黨的版本我們來試算一下用113年的縣市稅數的統籌款還有113年他們各縣市地方的稅數款來看的話我們有9個縣市有9個縣市不計地方稅統籌分配款就比稅數預算還要多\n\n6\n00:01:45,347 --> 00:02:07,922\n從國民黨的版本所搶來的錢搬到地方去的話有9個縣市他們的這個統籌分配款呢拿到了就比他們在113年的這個稅出預算還要多連江縣113年稅出預算是44億按照國民黨的版本他可以拿到69億然後更不用說這個還有請多的縣市\n\n7\n00:02:10,163 --> 00:02:34,542\n那等於那我就請教了部長這個是行政院的這個主計總署的這個副主計長蔡文坤他有提到說如果這個按照國民黨的版本這個要這個有6612億的這個財源下去相關的事權應該要做調整然後呢比如說那像健保老農津貼就應該回歸地方政府來辦理\n\n8\n00:02:35,923 --> 00:02:59,688\n然後呢這個地方財源大幅增加之後也不能要求中央對地方的一般性補助款不能夠減少因為他認為這不合理那所以我請教一下部長這個竹建總署所提到的說除了健保跟老農津貼要下放不由這個中央來支出之外財政部認為有哪些事權應該要做調整\n\n9\n00:03:01,768 --> 00:03:23,681\n謝謝委員收入的劃分一定要配合事權的劃分事權的劃分才有所謂支出的劃分然後才有收入的劃分所以今天如果只是考慮就是說要把這麼多的錢增加6612億劃到地方去的話那一定要先在考慮這個事權但是事權涉及到各部會目前的業務執掌裡面\n\n10\n00:03:25,242 --> 00:03:44,727\n哪一些是中央做哪一些地方做必須要重新檢討所以在事權調整涉及到各部會的一個權責要調整現在沒有嘛因為我們沒有討論到事權的調整嘛對目前完全沒有調整那你怎麼去因應呢他們現在就是說比如說按照國民版本他就是要6000多要搶下去了那有哪一些本來是要中央出現在就改由地方來出\n\n11\n00:03:45,487 --> 00:04:00,619\n現在比如說像儲計總署在健保跟老農津貼這個部分原來是地方的後來中央來做那大家就1000多億那事實上還有5000多億要怎麼樣去做調整所以會造成中央完全施政上的困難但是要哪些劃分到地方現在目前都還沒有討論因為目前來說財政部在開會的是先討論水平分配各個指標的部分指標必須要有共識然後再做權證那所以這個垂直的\n\n12\n00:04:12,869 --> 00:04:27,438\n這也是很緊急啊如果按照這個國民黨的版本的話他就是要把你搶這麼多錢下去了嘛那你當然要想就是說那我們中央政府怎麼去做因應本來是由中央出的現在就是由地方出你們有想到了嗎\n\n13\n00:04:28,151 --> 00:04:45,323\n目前來說因為第一個既然要增加這麼多然後一般性補助款還不可以減少依照現在黨的版本是一般補助款也不能減少所以整個財政來說中央已經沒有辦法已經就是扣掉法律義務支出能做的社會補助都不能做了現在比如說像\n\n14\n00:04:45,943 --> 00:05:13,248\n像育兒津貼啦、租金補貼啦這些東西原來都是中央統一在做的像TPAS這些那可能都沒有財源再來處理這些那所以在事權調整上必須要各部會一起來討論怎麼樣在全部來做因應調整所以你剛才提到說不管是這個育兒津貼、少子化的一些補助然後這個中央設宅、這個租金的補貼、TPAS等等本來由中央支付的未來都有可能改由地方來支出\n\n15\n00:05:14,148 --> 00:05:30,923\n這個部分都要重新來做劃分了知識體大,你們要有因應啊國民黨是不會等我們等你都想好之後他才會怎麼做他就是硬幹了你要有這個心理準備他就坐在這邊聽了啦然後我再來請教一下這個\n\n16\n00:05:33,988 --> 00:06:00,557\n兆豐銀行他最近開出了第一槍他宣布到明年底不再支付任何廣告費用給非實名制的各社群平臺也不得邀請網紅代言各項業務向非實名制的Google、Line、Facebook、YouTube、IG等等不願承擔房主詐騙責任的行為正式宣戰就是不向這個沒有實名制的這些網路平臺下廣告那請問一下\n\n17\n00:06:01,411 --> 00:06:23,309\n部長覺得這個策略這個政策怎麼樣當然這個策略提出來以後相關的金融事業也都跟進我覺得這是一個很好的都有跟進嗎幾乎都跟進啦我們的這個公股、行庫對公股、行庫全部都跟進了對都跟進啦有嗎有沒有有沒有誰沒有跟進的誰誰沒有跟進的\n\n18\n00:06:31,356 --> 00:06:37,124\n有落實掉了我們趙峰董事長他要補充說明趙峰董事長\n\n19\n00:06:42,117 --> 00:07:07,224\n報告委員關谷銀行都在我們是上禮拜四那上禮拜四上禮拜五就都已經跟進了那現在呢我們從媒體上看到大概投信投顧工會他們也用工會的力量也邀請大家一起來參與那銀行工會勒銀行工會還沒有還沒有做這一方面的這個要求不過我相信接下來的話我們應該可以看到一些民營銀行也會跟進那您現在也是銀行工會的這個理事長嘛\n\n20\n00:07:07,904 --> 00:07:33,846\n那這個部長那是不是我們也能夠請這個銀行公會這個以自律公約的方式來要求這個我們的銀行不要在這個沒有實名制的這個網路平台上面下廣告可能這個部分由財政部去請銀行公會來做自律公約這個可能是不是有金管會做來會更適合一點那這個董董勒董董是\n\n21\n00:07:35,610 --> 00:07:58,520\n報告委員我們會在公會裡面就是用道德勸說的方式希望大家能夠配合不過我想跟大家報告跟委員報告一件事情就是我們是不投廣告但是如果說我們所傳遞給消費者的訊息給我們客戶的訊息是跟交易相關的譬如說我們的客戶他如果信用卡刷卡我們會傳遞他可能透過社交媒體我們傳遞他他有這一段交易\n\n22\n00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:25,852\n訊息告知跟投廣告是兩回事那個是防詐所以我覺得那個是我們是我是認為那你既然是銀行公會的理事長那也應該這個這個帶頭來做除了公股銀行之外我們希望說這個所有的銀行既然這個要一起打詐防詐那大家就一起來做那我再問一下莊部長那我們的各個部會哩比如像財政部哩\n\n23\n00:08:27,341 --> 00:08:53,524\n是不是也要帶頭巨頭這個沒有實名制的這些廣告我們有投這個廣告嗎我們本來也沒有在做這個廣告本來就沒有你督導一下我是希望說沒有嗎你們有時候有一些你自己下面的一些所屬單位有沒有下廣告你去查一下我們再做盤點一下是謝謝那就是我們就帶頭也來做好不好是的應該的對打炸的來說好\n\n24\n00:08:55,359 --> 00:09:10,434\n董總請回那那個在11月1號總諮詢的時候不是總預算的諮詢我有提到就是說這個今年稅收是不是有望超徵2000億那部長那時候回應是非常的保守就是說這個2000億可能有機會有可能會達成\n\n25\n00:09:15,479 --> 00:09:42,006\n但是你們昨天就開了一個記者會這個今年總稅收將由於預算數的4千億規模隔旺創歷史第三高這個是你們財政部的記者會嘛對不對這個比我這個11月1號問的時候等於double勒那時候講2千億就是現在是可以這個收到大概4千億到10月份為止啦那如果我們來推估的話啦前10月達成率是116.2%\n\n26\n00:09:44,927 --> 00:09:48,352\n估算的話超收會到5000億部長怎麼看這個數字\n\n27\n00:09:50,947 --> 00:10:14,930\n跟委員報告委員上次在質詢的時候有提到當時我有提到就是說因為10月份還有10月份有一個不是9月份有一個盈利事業的站腳稅款要進來到10月份才會陸續賬才會看得出來所以我到11月中的時候數字會比較沒有啦那個差距太多了啦部長你的講法都非常非常的保守是是是這很保守\n\n28\n00:10:15,630 --> 00:10:34,941\n對,然後到10月底的數字已經統計出來所以我們昨天的記者會就直接說了就是說全國的部分時增數會超過預算數4千億然後中央數會超過預算數的3千億那如果按照這個比例來看年底是不是有可能到達5千億啊不,我們這個超過數就是指到年底為止沒有,現在10月啊你現在已經不是到10月份嗎\n\n29\n00:10:35,941 --> 00:10:51,207\n對,不不不,根據10月的時增數來推估全年會超出的數額所以這個是4千億是全年度?全年度會超出4千億?對對對,是的負稅超出的話呢,那個舉債就會減少那113年總預算呢,預計舉債是1267億特別預算舉債是2637億,合計是3904億這是113年的總預算那請問一下目前舉債的執行數勒?\n\n30\n00:11:05,884 --> 00:11:32,238\n總預算的舉借我們並沒有借然後特別預算的也沒有總預算沒有借總預算都沒有借因為原來編的數字我們都沒有去借所以你們編的這個不論是這個總預算、特別預算3900億都沒有去借就對了因為稅務執行的好的話我就會用稅務的錢然後去來去做一些稅出的支應所以在總預算的部分沒有借特別預算應該也沒有借這署長要補充嗎特別預算的部分\n\n31\n00:11:34,767 --> 00:11:49,807\n特別預算是借多少?特別預算有借總預算的部分沒有借?沒有借,然後也還了1158億債的部分也先還了特別預算是借了多少?特別預算借了\n\n32\n00:11:52,062 --> 00:12:19,389\n我們待會我們查一下再跟委員報告那等於是說本來要借的沒有借對那要還債對那總預算的部分是沒有借特別預算有借對那還債預算原編的1150我們還了1158那到12月我們會再增加還債那如果有稅計剩餘的話財政部有什麼規劃的運用嗎稅計剩餘的話就會進到主計總處那邊去他作為以後年度的一個融資財源對那當然啦那我是說部長你有什麼樣的規劃嗎\n\n33\n00:12:20,988 --> 00:12:40,873\n呃沒有我們就還是減少舉債增加還債啊呵呵這就是你們的規劃就對了對對對因為這樣讓財第一個債務餘額不會不會一直累積上升很多然後再加上財政就會有韌性那我們到累積剩餘以後明年或後年他需要支出的話就是多一些融資的財源那減少一些可以需要舉的債的數額好\n\n34\n00:12:42,593 --> 00:13:04,585\n臺灣法要小心翼翼,這個前6000多月下去的話,中央是很難去做運作的地方掙了這麼多錢,那權力也應該要下放,這個都要事權跟這個錢都要講清楚因為整個如果這樣的話,連重大建設可能推動上都會受到影響謝謝,謝謝主席、謝謝部長謝謝昆城,接著請伍麗華委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n932\t25868\t好請莊部長委員好部長好這個民進黨其實是委曲求全因為我們還是一致認為說上個禮拜三由陳玉珍、趙偉所通過的這一個三分鐘就通過了這個財務法完全不合理那完全沒有經過討論那送出去的法案其實是不合乎程序的\n26488\t34335\t那尤其財劃法這麼重要的法案這個3分鐘就送過去那按照國民黨的這一個他們要通過的財劃法這個要增加6612億那中央只剩下1157億可以用\n44604\t51568\t按照他們的版本來看在國稅的部分所得稅總收入從10%提高到25%就是說如果我們都用114年的預算來試算的話從1940億增加到4856億營業稅總收入他們從40%提高到100%\n64515\t78651\t這個完全拿到地方然後這個114年預算試算是從2553億增加到6383億那地方這個土地的增值稅全部都由地方來做使用了那\n79552\t86736\t按照國民黨的版本我們來試算一下用113年的縣市稅數的統籌款還有113年他們各縣市地方的稅數款來看的話我們有9個縣市有9個縣市不計地方稅統籌分配款就比稅數預算還要多\n105347\t127922\t從國民黨的版本所搶來的錢搬到地方去的話有9個縣市他們的這個統籌分配款呢拿到了就比他們在113年的這個稅出預算還要多連江縣113年稅出預算是44億按照國民黨的版本他可以拿到69億然後更不用說這個還有請多的縣市\n130163\t154542\t那等於 那我就請教了部長這個是行政院的這個主計總署的這個副主計長蔡文坤他有提到說如果這個按照國民黨的版本這個要這個有6612億的這個財源下去相關的事權應該要做調整然後呢 比如說那像健保老農津貼就應該回歸地方政府來辦理\n155923\t179688\t然後呢這個地方財源大幅增加之後也不能要求中央對地方的一般性補助款不能夠減少因為他認為這不合理那所以我請教一下部長這個竹建總署所提到的說除了健保跟老農津貼要下放不由這個中央來支出之外財政部認為有哪些事權應該要做調整\n181768\t203681\t謝謝委員收入的劃分一定要配合事權的劃分事權的劃分才有所謂支出的劃分然後才有收入的劃分所以今天如果只是考慮就是說要把這麼多的錢增加6612億劃到地方去的話那一定要先在考慮這個事權但是事權涉及到各部會目前的業務執掌裡面\n205242\t224727\t哪一些是中央做哪一些地方做必須要重新檢討所以在事權調整涉及到各部會的一個權責要調整現在沒有嘛因為我們沒有討論到事權的調整嘛對目前完全沒有調整那你怎麼去因應呢他們現在就是說比如說按照國民版本他就是要6000多要搶下去了那有哪一些本來是要中央出現在就改由地方來出\n225487\t240619\t現在比如說像儲計總署在健保跟老農津貼這個部分原來是地方的後來中央來做那大家就1000多億那事實上還有5000多億要怎麼樣去做調整所以會造成中央完全施政上的困難但是要哪些劃分到地方現在目前都還沒有討論因為目前來說財政部在開會的是先討論水平分配各個指標的部分指標必須要有共識然後再做權證那所以這個垂直的\n252869\t267438\t這也是很緊急啊如果按照這個國民黨的版本的話他就是要把你搶這麼多錢下去了嘛那你當然要想就是說那我們中央政府怎麼去做因應本來是由中央出的現在就是由地方出你們有想到了嗎\n268151\t285323\t目前來說因為第一個既然要增加這麼多然後一般性補助款還不可以減少依照現在黨的版本是一般補助款也不能減少所以整個財政來說中央已經沒有辦法已經就是扣掉法律義務支出能做的社會補助都不能做了現在比如說像\n285943\t313248\t像育兒津貼啦、租金補貼啦這些東西原來都是中央統一在做的像TPAS這些那可能都沒有財源再來處理這些那所以在事權調整上必須要各部會一起來討論怎麼樣在全部來做因應調整所以你剛才提到說不管是這個育兒津貼、少子化的一些補助然後這個中央設宅、這個租金的補貼、TPAS等等本來由中央支付的未來都有可能改由地方來支出\n314148\t330923\t這個部分都要重新來做劃分了知識體大,你們要有因應啊國民黨是不會等我們等你都想好之後他才會怎麼做他就是硬幹了你要有這個心理準備他就坐在這邊聽了啦然後我再來請教一下這個\n333988\t360557\t兆豐銀行他最近開出了第一槍他宣布到明年底不再支付任何廣告費用給非實名制的各社群平臺也不得邀請網紅代言各項業務向非實名制的Google、Line、Facebook、YouTube、IG等等不願承擔房主詐騙責任的行為正式宣戰就是不向這個沒有實名制的這些網路平臺下廣告那請問一下\n361411\t383309\t部長覺得這個策略這個政策怎麼樣當然這個策略提出來以後相關的金融事業也都跟進我覺得這是一個很好的都有跟進嗎幾乎都跟進啦我們的這個公股、行庫對公股、行庫全部都跟進了對都跟進啦有嗎有沒有有沒有誰沒有跟進的誰誰沒有跟進的\n391356\t397124\t有落實掉了我們趙峰董事長他要補充說明趙峰董事長\n402117\t427224\t報告委員關谷銀行都在我們是上禮拜四那上禮拜四上禮拜五就都已經跟進了那現在呢我們從媒體上看到大概投信投顧工會他們也用工會的力量也邀請大家一起來參與那銀行工會勒銀行工會還沒有還沒有做這一方面的這個要求不過我相信接下來的話我們應該可以看到一些民營銀行也會跟進那您現在也是銀行工會的這個理事長嘛\n427904\t453846\t那這個部長那是不是我們也能夠請這個銀行公會這個以自律公約的方式來要求這個我們的銀行不要在這個沒有實名制的這個網路平台上面下廣告可能這個部分由財政部去請銀行公會來做自律公約這個可能是不是有金管會做來會更適合一點那這個董董勒董董是\n455610\t478520\t報告委員 我們會在公會裡面就是用道德勸說的方式希望大家能夠配合不過我想跟大家報告跟委員報告一件事情就是我們是不投廣告但是如果說我們所傳遞給消費者的訊息給我們客戶的訊息是跟交易相關的譬如說我們的客戶他如果信用卡刷卡我們會傳遞他可能透過社交媒體我們傳遞他他有這一段交易\n479120\t505852\t訊息告知跟投廣告是兩回事那個是防詐所以我覺得那個是我們是我是認為那你既然是銀行公會的理事長那也應該這個這個帶頭來做除了公股銀行之外我們希望說這個所有的銀行既然這個要一起打詐防詐那大家就一起來做那我再問一下莊部長那我們的各個部會哩比如像財政部哩\n507341\t533524\t是不是也要帶頭巨頭這個沒有實名制的這些廣告我們有投這個廣告嗎我們本來也沒有在做這個廣告本來就沒有你督導一下我是希望說沒有嗎你們有時候有一些你自己下面的一些所屬單位有沒有下廣告你去查一下我們再做盤點一下是謝謝那就是我們就帶頭也來做好不好是的應該的對打炸的來說好\n535359\t550434\t董總請回那那個在11月1號總諮詢的時候不是總預算的諮詢我有提到就是說這個今年稅收是不是有望超徵2000億那部長那時候回應是非常的保守就是說這個2000億可能有機會有可能會達成\n555479\t582006\t但是你們昨天就開了一個記者會這個今年總稅收將由於預算數的4千億規模隔旺創歷史第三高這個是你們財政部的記者會嘛 對不對這個比我這個11月1號問的時候等於double勒那時候講2千億就是現在是可以這個收到大概4千億到10月份為止啦那如果我們來推估的話啦前10月達成率是116.2%\n584927\t588352\t估算的話 超收會到5000億部長怎麼看這個數字\n590947\t614930\t跟委員報告委員上次在質詢的時候有提到當時我有提到就是說因為10月份還有10月份有一個不是9月份有一個盈利事業的站腳稅款要進來到10月份才會陸續賬才會看得出來所以我到11月中的時候數字會比較沒有啦那個差距太多了啦部長你的講法都非常非常的保守是是是這很保守\n615630\t634941\t對,然後到10月底的數字已經統計出來所以我們昨天的記者會就直接說了就是說全國的部分時增數會超過預算數4千億然後中央數會超過預算數的3千億那如果按照這個比例來看年底是不是有可能到達5千億啊不,我們這個超過數就是指到年底為止沒有,現在10月啊你現在已經不是到10月份嗎\n635941\t651207\t對,不不不,根據10月的時增數來推估全年會超出的數額所以這個是4千億是全年度?全年度會超出4千億?對對對,是的負稅超出的話呢,那個舉債就會減少那113年總預算呢,預計舉債是1267億特別預算舉債是2637億,合計是3904億這是113年的總預算那請問一下目前舉債的執行數勒?\n665884\t692238\t總預算的舉借我們並沒有借然後特別預算的也沒有總預算沒有借總預算都沒有借因為原來編的數字我們都沒有去借所以你們編的這個不論是這個總預算、特別預算3900億都沒有去借就對了因為稅務執行的好的話我就會用稅務的錢然後去來去做一些稅出的支應所以在總預算的部分沒有借特別預算應該也沒有借這署長要補充嗎特別預算的部分\n694767\t709807\t特別預算是借多少?特別預算有借總預算的部分沒有借?沒有借,然後也還了1158億債的部分也先還了特別預算是借了多少?特別預算借了\n712062\t739389\t我們待會我們查一下再跟委員報告那等於是說本來要借的沒有借對那要還債對那總預算的部分是沒有借特別預算有借對那還債預算原編的1150我們還了1158那到12月我們會再增加還債那如果有稅計剩餘的話財政部有什麼規劃的運用嗎稅計剩餘的話就會進到主計總處那邊去他作為以後年度的一個融資財源對那當然啦那我是說部長你有什麼樣的規劃嗎\n740988\t760873\t呃沒有我們就還是減少舉債增加還債啊呵呵這就是你們的規劃就對了對對對因為這樣讓財第一個債務餘額不會不會一直累積上升很多然後再加上財政就會有韌性那我們到累積剩餘以後明年或後年他需要支出的話就是多一些融資的財源那減少一些可以需要舉的債的數額好\n762593\t784585\t臺灣法要小心翼翼,這個前6000多月下去的話,中央是很難去做運作的地方掙了這麼多錢,那權力也應該要下放,這個都要事權跟這個錢都要講清楚因為整個如果這樣的話,連重大建設可能推動上都會受到影響謝謝,謝謝主席、謝謝部長謝謝昆城,接著請伍麗華委員質詢\n","txt":"好請莊部長委員好部長好這個民進黨其實是委曲求全因為我們還是一致認為說上個禮拜三由陳玉珍、趙偉所通過的這一個三分鐘就通過了這個財務法完全不合理那完全沒有經過討論那送出去的法案其實是不合乎程序的\n那尤其財劃法這麼重要的法案這個3分鐘就送過去那按照國民黨的這一個他們要通過的財劃法這個要增加6612億那中央只剩下1157億可以用\n按照他們的版本來看在國稅的部分所得稅總收入從10%提高到25%就是說如果我們都用114年的預算來試算的話從1940億增加到4856億營業稅總收入他們從40%提高到100%\n這個完全拿到地方然後這個114年預算試算是從2553億增加到6383億那地方這個土地的增值稅全部都由地方來做使用了那\n按照國民黨的版本我們來試算一下用113年的縣市稅數的統籌款還有113年他們各縣市地方的稅數款來看的話我們有9個縣市有9個縣市不計地方稅統籌分配款就比稅數預算還要多\n從國民黨的版本所搶來的錢搬到地方去的話有9個縣市他們的這個統籌分配款呢拿到了就比他們在113年的這個稅出預算還要多連江縣113年稅出預算是44億按照國民黨的版本他可以拿到69億然後更不用說這個還有請多的縣市\n那等於 那我就請教了部長這個是行政院的這個主計總署的這個副主計長蔡文坤他有提到說如果這個按照國民黨的版本這個要這個有6612億的這個財源下去相關的事權應該要做調整然後呢 比如說那像健保老農津貼就應該回歸地方政府來辦理\n然後呢這個地方財源大幅增加之後也不能要求中央對地方的一般性補助款不能夠減少因為他認為這不合理那所以我請教一下部長這個竹建總署所提到的說除了健保跟老農津貼要下放不由這個中央來支出之外財政部認為有哪些事權應該要做調整\n謝謝委員收入的劃分一定要配合事權的劃分事權的劃分才有所謂支出的劃分然後才有收入的劃分所以今天如果只是考慮就是說要把這麼多的錢增加6612億劃到地方去的話那一定要先在考慮這個事權但是事權涉及到各部會目前的業務執掌裡面\n哪一些是中央做哪一些地方做必須要重新檢討所以在事權調整涉及到各部會的一個權責要調整現在沒有嘛因為我們沒有討論到事權的調整嘛對目前完全沒有調整那你怎麼去因應呢他們現在就是說比如說按照國民版本他就是要6000多要搶下去了那有哪一些本來是要中央出現在就改由地方來出\n現在比如說像儲計總署在健保跟老農津貼這個部分原來是地方的後來中央來做那大家就1000多億那事實上還有5000多億要怎麼樣去做調整所以會造成中央完全施政上的困難但是要哪些劃分到地方現在目前都還沒有討論因為目前來說財政部在開會的是先討論水平分配各個指標的部分指標必須要有共識然後再做權證那所以這個垂直的\n這也是很緊急啊如果按照這個國民黨的版本的話他就是要把你搶這麼多錢下去了嘛那你當然要想就是說那我們中央政府怎麼去做因應本來是由中央出的現在就是由地方出你們有想到了嗎\n目前來說因為第一個既然要增加這麼多然後一般性補助款還不可以減少依照現在黨的版本是一般補助款也不能減少所以整個財政來說中央已經沒有辦法已經就是扣掉法律義務支出能做的社會補助都不能做了現在比如說像\n像育兒津貼啦、租金補貼啦這些東西原來都是中央統一在做的像TPAS這些那可能都沒有財源再來處理這些那所以在事權調整上必須要各部會一起來討論怎麼樣在全部來做因應調整所以你剛才提到說不管是這個育兒津貼、少子化的一些補助然後這個中央設宅、這個租金的補貼、TPAS等等本來由中央支付的未來都有可能改由地方來支出\n這個部分都要重新來做劃分了知識體大,你們要有因應啊國民黨是不會等我們等你都想好之後他才會怎麼做他就是硬幹了你要有這個心理準備他就坐在這邊聽了啦然後我再來請教一下這個\n兆豐銀行他最近開出了第一槍他宣布到明年底不再支付任何廣告費用給非實名制的各社群平臺也不得邀請網紅代言各項業務向非實名制的Google、Line、Facebook、YouTube、IG等等不願承擔房主詐騙責任的行為正式宣戰就是不向這個沒有實名制的這些網路平臺下廣告那請問一下\n部長覺得這個策略這個政策怎麼樣當然這個策略提出來以後相關的金融事業也都跟進我覺得這是一個很好的都有跟進嗎幾乎都跟進啦我們的這個公股、行庫對公股、行庫全部都跟進了對都跟進啦有嗎有沒有有沒有誰沒有跟進的誰誰沒有跟進的\n有落實掉了我們趙峰董事長他要補充說明趙峰董事長\n報告委員關谷銀行都在我們是上禮拜四那上禮拜四上禮拜五就都已經跟進了那現在呢我們從媒體上看到大概投信投顧工會他們也用工會的力量也邀請大家一起來參與那銀行工會勒銀行工會還沒有還沒有做這一方面的這個要求不過我相信接下來的話我們應該可以看到一些民營銀行也會跟進那您現在也是銀行工會的這個理事長嘛\n那這個部長那是不是我們也能夠請這個銀行公會這個以自律公約的方式來要求這個我們的銀行不要在這個沒有實名制的這個網路平台上面下廣告可能這個部分由財政部去請銀行公會來做自律公約這個可能是不是有金管會做來會更適合一點那這個董董勒董董是\n報告委員 我們會在公會裡面就是用道德勸說的方式希望大家能夠配合不過我想跟大家報告跟委員報告一件事情就是我們是不投廣告但是如果說我們所傳遞給消費者的訊息給我們客戶的訊息是跟交易相關的譬如說我們的客戶他如果信用卡刷卡我們會傳遞他可能透過社交媒體我們傳遞他他有這一段交易\n訊息告知跟投廣告是兩回事那個是防詐所以我覺得那個是我們是我是認為那你既然是銀行公會的理事長那也應該這個這個帶頭來做除了公股銀行之外我們希望說這個所有的銀行既然這個要一起打詐防詐那大家就一起來做那我再問一下莊部長那我們的各個部會哩比如像財政部哩\n是不是也要帶頭巨頭這個沒有實名制的這些廣告我們有投這個廣告嗎我們本來也沒有在做這個廣告本來就沒有你督導一下我是希望說沒有嗎你們有時候有一些你自己下面的一些所屬單位有沒有下廣告你去查一下我們再做盤點一下是謝謝那就是我們就帶頭也來做好不好是的應該的對打炸的來說好\n董總請回那那個在11月1號總諮詢的時候不是總預算的諮詢我有提到就是說這個今年稅收是不是有望超徵2000億那部長那時候回應是非常的保守就是說這個2000億可能有機會有可能會達成\n但是你們昨天就開了一個記者會這個今年總稅收將由於預算數的4千億規模隔旺創歷史第三高這個是你們財政部的記者會嘛 對不對這個比我這個11月1號問的時候等於double勒那時候講2千億就是現在是可以這個收到大概4千億到10月份為止啦那如果我們來推估的話啦前10月達成率是116.2%\n估算的話 超收會到5000億部長怎麼看這個數字\n跟委員報告委員上次在質詢的時候有提到當時我有提到就是說因為10月份還有10月份有一個不是9月份有一個盈利事業的站腳稅款要進來到10月份才會陸續賬才會看得出來所以我到11月中的時候數字會比較沒有啦那個差距太多了啦部長你的講法都非常非常的保守是是是這很保守\n對,然後到10月底的數字已經統計出來所以我們昨天的記者會就直接說了就是說全國的部分時增數會超過預算數4千億然後中央數會超過預算數的3千億那如果按照這個比例來看年底是不是有可能到達5千億啊不,我們這個超過數就是指到年底為止沒有,現在10月啊你現在已經不是到10月份嗎\n對,不不不,根據10月的時增數來推估全年會超出的數額所以這個是4千億是全年度?全年度會超出4千億?對對對,是的負稅超出的話呢,那個舉債就會減少那113年總預算呢,預計舉債是1267億特別預算舉債是2637億,合計是3904億這是113年的總預算那請問一下目前舉債的執行數勒?\n總預算的舉借我們並沒有借然後特別預算的也沒有總預算沒有借總預算都沒有借因為原來編的數字我們都沒有去借所以你們編的這個不論是這個總預算、特別預算3900億都沒有去借就對了因為稅務執行的好的話我就會用稅務的錢然後去來去做一些稅出的支應所以在總預算的部分沒有借特別預算應該也沒有借這署長要補充嗎特別預算的部分\n特別預算是借多少?特別預算有借總預算的部分沒有借?沒有借,然後也還了1158億債的部分也先還了特別預算是借了多少?特別預算借了\n我們待會我們查一下再跟委員報告那等於是說本來要借的沒有借對那要還債對那總預算的部分是沒有借特別預算有借對那還債預算原編的1150我們還了1158那到12月我們會再增加還債那如果有稅計剩餘的話財政部有什麼規劃的運用嗎稅計剩餘的話就會進到主計總處那邊去他作為以後年度的一個融資財源對那當然啦那我是說部長你有什麼樣的規劃嗎\n呃沒有我們就還是減少舉債增加還債啊呵呵這就是你們的規劃就對了對對對因為這樣讓財第一個債務餘額不會不會一直累積上升很多然後再加上財政就會有韌性那我們到累積剩餘以後明年或後年他需要支出的話就是多一些融資的財源那減少一些可以需要舉的債的數額好\n臺灣法要小心翼翼,這個前6000多月下去的話,中央是很難去做運作的地方掙了這麼多錢,那權力也應該要下放,這個都要事權跟這個錢都要講清楚因為整個如果這樣的話,連重大建設可能推動上都會受到影響謝謝,謝謝主席、謝謝部長謝謝昆城,接著請伍麗華委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.932 --> 00:25.868\n好請莊部長委員好部長好這個民進黨其實是委曲求全因為我們還是一致認為說上個禮拜三由陳玉珍、趙偉所通過的這一個三分鐘就通過了這個財務法完全不合理那完全沒有經過討論那送出去的法案其實是不合乎程序的\n\n00:26.488 --> 00:34.335\n那尤其財劃法這麼重要的法案這個3分鐘就送過去那按照國民黨的這一個他們要通過的財劃法這個要增加6612億那中央只剩下1157億可以用\n\n00:44.604 --> 00:51.568\n按照他們的版本來看在國稅的部分所得稅總收入從10%提高到25%就是說如果我們都用114年的預算來試算的話從1940億增加到4856億營業稅總收入他們從40%提高到100%\n\n01:04.515 --> 01:18.651\n這個完全拿到地方然後這個114年預算試算是從2553億增加到6383億那地方這個土地的增值稅全部都由地方來做使用了那\n\n01:19.552 --> 01:26.736\n按照國民黨的版本我們來試算一下用113年的縣市稅數的統籌款還有113年他們各縣市地方的稅數款來看的話我們有9個縣市有9個縣市不計地方稅統籌分配款就比稅數預算還要多\n\n01:45.347 --> 02:07.922\n從國民黨的版本所搶來的錢搬到地方去的話有9個縣市他們的這個統籌分配款呢拿到了就比他們在113年的這個稅出預算還要多連江縣113年稅出預算是44億按照國民黨的版本他可以拿到69億然後更不用說這個還有請多的縣市\n\n02:10.163 --> 02:34.542\n那等於那我就請教了部長這個是行政院的這個主計總署的這個副主計長蔡文坤他有提到說如果這個按照國民黨的版本這個要這個有6612億的這個財源下去相關的事權應該要做調整然後呢比如說那像健保老農津貼就應該回歸地方政府來辦理\n\n02:35.923 --> 02:59.688\n然後呢這個地方財源大幅增加之後也不能要求中央對地方的一般性補助款不能夠減少因為他認為這不合理那所以我請教一下部長這個竹建總署所提到的說除了健保跟老農津貼要下放不由這個中央來支出之外財政部認為有哪些事權應該要做調整\n\n03:01.768 --> 03:23.681\n謝謝委員收入的劃分一定要配合事權的劃分事權的劃分才有所謂支出的劃分然後才有收入的劃分所以今天如果只是考慮就是說要把這麼多的錢增加6612億劃到地方去的話那一定要先在考慮這個事權但是事權涉及到各部會目前的業務執掌裡面\n\n03:25.242 --> 03:44.727\n哪一些是中央做哪一些地方做必須要重新檢討所以在事權調整涉及到各部會的一個權責要調整現在沒有嘛因為我們沒有討論到事權的調整嘛對目前完全沒有調整那你怎麼去因應呢他們現在就是說比如說按照國民版本他就是要6000多要搶下去了那有哪一些本來是要中央出現在就改由地方來出\n\n03:45.487 --> 04:00.619\n現在比如說像儲計總署在健保跟老農津貼這個部分原來是地方的後來中央來做那大家就1000多億那事實上還有5000多億要怎麼樣去做調整所以會造成中央完全施政上的困難但是要哪些劃分到地方現在目前都還沒有討論因為目前來說財政部在開會的是先討論水平分配各個指標的部分指標必須要有共識然後再做權證那所以這個垂直的\n\n04:12.869 --> 04:27.438\n這也是很緊急啊如果按照這個國民黨的版本的話他就是要把你搶這麼多錢下去了嘛那你當然要想就是說那我們中央政府怎麼去做因應本來是由中央出的現在就是由地方出你們有想到了嗎\n\n04:28.151 --> 04:45.323\n目前來說因為第一個既然要增加這麼多然後一般性補助款還不可以減少依照現在黨的版本是一般補助款也不能減少所以整個財政來說中央已經沒有辦法已經就是扣掉法律義務支出能做的社會補助都不能做了現在比如說像\n\n04:45.943 --> 05:13.248\n像育兒津貼啦、租金補貼啦這些東西原來都是中央統一在做的像TPAS這些那可能都沒有財源再來處理這些那所以在事權調整上必須要各部會一起來討論怎麼樣在全部來做因應調整所以你剛才提到說不管是這個育兒津貼、少子化的一些補助然後這個中央設宅、這個租金的補貼、TPAS等等本來由中央支付的未來都有可能改由地方來支出\n\n05:14.148 --> 05:30.923\n這個部分都要重新來做劃分了知識體大,你們要有因應啊國民黨是不會等我們等你都想好之後他才會怎麼做他就是硬幹了你要有這個心理準備他就坐在這邊聽了啦然後我再來請教一下這個\n\n05:33.988 --> 06:00.557\n兆豐銀行他最近開出了第一槍他宣布到明年底不再支付任何廣告費用給非實名制的各社群平臺也不得邀請網紅代言各項業務向非實名制的Google、Line、Facebook、YouTube、IG等等不願承擔房主詐騙責任的行為正式宣戰就是不向這個沒有實名制的這些網路平臺下廣告那請問一下\n\n06:01.411 --> 06:23.309\n部長覺得這個策略這個政策怎麼樣當然這個策略提出來以後相關的金融事業也都跟進我覺得這是一個很好的都有跟進嗎幾乎都跟進啦我們的這個公股、行庫對公股、行庫全部都跟進了對都跟進啦有嗎有沒有有沒有誰沒有跟進的誰誰沒有跟進的\n\n06:31.356 --> 06:37.124\n有落實掉了我們趙峰董事長他要補充說明趙峰董事長\n\n06:42.117 --> 07:07.224\n報告委員關谷銀行都在我們是上禮拜四那上禮拜四上禮拜五就都已經跟進了那現在呢我們從媒體上看到大概投信投顧工會他們也用工會的力量也邀請大家一起來參與那銀行工會勒銀行工會還沒有還沒有做這一方面的這個要求不過我相信接下來的話我們應該可以看到一些民營銀行也會跟進那您現在也是銀行工會的這個理事長嘛\n\n07:07.904 --> 07:33.846\n那這個部長那是不是我們也能夠請這個銀行公會這個以自律公約的方式來要求這個我們的銀行不要在這個沒有實名制的這個網路平台上面下廣告可能這個部分由財政部去請銀行公會來做自律公約這個可能是不是有金管會做來會更適合一點那這個董董勒董董是\n\n07:35.610 --> 07:58.520\n報告委員我們會在公會裡面就是用道德勸說的方式希望大家能夠配合不過我想跟大家報告跟委員報告一件事情就是我們是不投廣告但是如果說我們所傳遞給消費者的訊息給我們客戶的訊息是跟交易相關的譬如說我們的客戶他如果信用卡刷卡我們會傳遞他可能透過社交媒體我們傳遞他他有這一段交易\n\n07:59.120 --> 08:25.852\n訊息告知跟投廣告是兩回事那個是防詐所以我覺得那個是我們是我是認為那你既然是銀行公會的理事長那也應該這個這個帶頭來做除了公股銀行之外我們希望說這個所有的銀行既然這個要一起打詐防詐那大家就一起來做那我再問一下莊部長那我們的各個部會哩比如像財政部哩\n\n08:27.341 --> 08:53.524\n是不是也要帶頭巨頭這個沒有實名制的這些廣告我們有投這個廣告嗎我們本來也沒有在做這個廣告本來就沒有你督導一下我是希望說沒有嗎你們有時候有一些你自己下面的一些所屬單位有沒有下廣告你去查一下我們再做盤點一下是謝謝那就是我們就帶頭也來做好不好是的應該的對打炸的來說好\n\n08:55.359 --> 09:10.434\n董總請回那那個在11月1號總諮詢的時候不是總預算的諮詢我有提到就是說這個今年稅收是不是有望超徵2000億那部長那時候回應是非常的保守就是說這個2000億可能有機會有可能會達成\n\n09:15.479 --> 09:42.006\n但是你們昨天就開了一個記者會這個今年總稅收將由於預算數的4千億規模隔旺創歷史第三高這個是你們財政部的記者會嘛對不對這個比我這個11月1號問的時候等於double勒那時候講2千億就是現在是可以這個收到大概4千億到10月份為止啦那如果我們來推估的話啦前10月達成率是116.2%\n\n09:44.927 --> 09:48.352\n估算的話超收會到5000億部長怎麼看這個數字\n\n09:50.947 --> 10:14.930\n跟委員報告委員上次在質詢的時候有提到當時我有提到就是說因為10月份還有10月份有一個不是9月份有一個盈利事業的站腳稅款要進來到10月份才會陸續賬才會看得出來所以我到11月中的時候數字會比較沒有啦那個差距太多了啦部長你的講法都非常非常的保守是是是這很保守\n\n10:15.630 --> 10:34.941\n對,然後到10月底的數字已經統計出來所以我們昨天的記者會就直接說了就是說全國的部分時增數會超過預算數4千億然後中央數會超過預算數的3千億那如果按照這個比例來看年底是不是有可能到達5千億啊不,我們這個超過數就是指到年底為止沒有,現在10月啊你現在已經不是到10月份嗎\n\n10:35.941 --> 10:51.207\n對,不不不,根據10月的時增數來推估全年會超出的數額所以這個是4千億是全年度?全年度會超出4千億?對對對,是的負稅超出的話呢,那個舉債就會減少那113年總預算呢,預計舉債是1267億特別預算舉債是2637億,合計是3904億這是113年的總預算那請問一下目前舉債的執行數勒?\n\n11:05.884 --> 11:32.238\n總預算的舉借我們並沒有借然後特別預算的也沒有總預算沒有借總預算都沒有借因為原來編的數字我們都沒有去借所以你們編的這個不論是這個總預算、特別預算3900億都沒有去借就對了因為稅務執行的好的話我就會用稅務的錢然後去來去做一些稅出的支應所以在總預算的部分沒有借特別預算應該也沒有借這署長要補充嗎特別預算的部分\n\n11:34.767 --> 11:49.807\n特別預算是借多少?特別預算有借總預算的部分沒有借?沒有借,然後也還了1158億債的部分也先還了特別預算是借了多少?特別預算借了\n\n11:52.062 --> 12:19.389\n我們待會我們查一下再跟委員報告那等於是說本來要借的沒有借對那要還債對那總預算的部分是沒有借特別預算有借對那還債預算原編的1150我們還了1158那到12月我們會再增加還債那如果有稅計剩餘的話財政部有什麼規劃的運用嗎稅計剩餘的話就會進到主計總處那邊去他作為以後年度的一個融資財源對那當然啦那我是說部長你有什麼樣的規劃嗎\n\n12:20.988 --> 12:40.873\n呃沒有我們就還是減少舉債增加還債啊呵呵這就是你們的規劃就對了對對對因為這樣讓財第一個債務餘額不會不會一直累積上升很多然後再加上財政就會有韌性那我們到累積剩餘以後明年或後年他需要支出的話就是多一些融資的財源那減少一些可以需要舉的債的數額好\n\n12:42.593 --> 13:04.585\n臺灣法要小心翼翼,這個前6000多月下去的話,中央是很難去做運作的地方掙了這麼多錢,那權力也應該要下放,這個都要事權跟這個錢都要講清楚因為整個如果這樣的話,連重大建設可能推動上都會受到影響謝謝,謝謝主席、謝謝部長謝謝昆城,接著請伍麗華委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.932,"end":25.868,"text":"好請莊部長委員好部長好這個民進黨其實是委曲求全因為我們還是一致認為說上個禮拜三由陳玉珍、趙偉所通過的這一個三分鐘就通過了這個財務法完全不合理那完全沒有經過討論那送出去的法案其實是不合乎程序的"},{"start":26.488,"end":34.335,"text":"那尤其財劃法這麼重要的法案這個3分鐘就送過去那按照國民黨的這一個他們要通過的財劃法這個要增加6612億那中央只剩下1157億可以用"},{"start":44.604,"end":51.568,"text":"按照他們的版本來看在國稅的部分所得稅總收入從10%提高到25%就是說如果我們都用114年的預算來試算的話從1940億增加到4856億營業稅總收入他們從40%提高到100%"},{"start":64.515,"end":78.651,"text":"這個完全拿到地方然後這個114年預算試算是從2553億增加到6383億那地方這個土地的增值稅全部都由地方來做使用了那"},{"start":79.552,"end":86.736,"text":"按照國民黨的版本我們來試算一下用113年的縣市稅數的統籌款還有113年他們各縣市地方的稅數款來看的話我們有9個縣市有9個縣市不計地方稅統籌分配款就比稅數預算還要多"},{"start":105.347,"end":127.922,"text":"從國民黨的版本所搶來的錢搬到地方去的話有9個縣市他們的這個統籌分配款呢拿到了就比他們在113年的這個稅出預算還要多連江縣113年稅出預算是44億按照國民黨的版本他可以拿到69億然後更不用說這個還有請多的縣市"},{"start":130.163,"end":154.542,"text":"那等於 那我就請教了部長這個是行政院的這個主計總署的這個副主計長蔡文坤他有提到說如果這個按照國民黨的版本這個要這個有6612億的這個財源下去相關的事權應該要做調整然後呢 比如說那像健保老農津貼就應該回歸地方政府來辦理"},{"start":155.923,"end":179.688,"text":"然後呢這個地方財源大幅增加之後也不能要求中央對地方的一般性補助款不能夠減少因為他認為這不合理那所以我請教一下部長這個竹建總署所提到的說除了健保跟老農津貼要下放不由這個中央來支出之外財政部認為有哪些事權應該要做調整"},{"start":181.768,"end":203.681,"text":"謝謝委員收入的劃分一定要配合事權的劃分事權的劃分才有所謂支出的劃分然後才有收入的劃分所以今天如果只是考慮就是說要把這麼多的錢增加6612億劃到地方去的話那一定要先在考慮這個事權但是事權涉及到各部會目前的業務執掌裡面"},{"start":205.242,"end":224.727,"text":"哪一些是中央做哪一些地方做必須要重新檢討所以在事權調整涉及到各部會的一個權責要調整現在沒有嘛因為我們沒有討論到事權的調整嘛對目前完全沒有調整那你怎麼去因應呢他們現在就是說比如說按照國民版本他就是要6000多要搶下去了那有哪一些本來是要中央出現在就改由地方來出"},{"start":225.487,"end":240.619,"text":"現在比如說像儲計總署在健保跟老農津貼這個部分原來是地方的後來中央來做那大家就1000多億那事實上還有5000多億要怎麼樣去做調整所以會造成中央完全施政上的困難但是要哪些劃分到地方現在目前都還沒有討論因為目前來說財政部在開會的是先討論水平分配各個指標的部分指標必須要有共識然後再做權證那所以這個垂直的"},{"start":252.869,"end":267.438,"text":"這也是很緊急啊如果按照這個國民黨的版本的話他就是要把你搶這麼多錢下去了嘛那你當然要想就是說那我們中央政府怎麼去做因應本來是由中央出的現在就是由地方出你們有想到了嗎"},{"start":268.151,"end":285.323,"text":"目前來說因為第一個既然要增加這麼多然後一般性補助款還不可以減少依照現在黨的版本是一般補助款也不能減少所以整個財政來說中央已經沒有辦法已經就是扣掉法律義務支出能做的社會補助都不能做了現在比如說像"},{"start":285.943,"end":313.248,"text":"像育兒津貼啦、租金補貼啦這些東西原來都是中央統一在做的像TPAS這些那可能都沒有財源再來處理這些那所以在事權調整上必須要各部會一起來討論怎麼樣在全部來做因應調整所以你剛才提到說不管是這個育兒津貼、少子化的一些補助然後這個中央設宅、這個租金的補貼、TPAS等等本來由中央支付的未來都有可能改由地方來支出"},{"start":314.148,"end":330.923,"text":"這個部分都要重新來做劃分了知識體大,你們要有因應啊國民黨是不會等我們等你都想好之後他才會怎麼做他就是硬幹了你要有這個心理準備他就坐在這邊聽了啦然後我再來請教一下這個"},{"start":333.988,"end":360.557,"text":"兆豐銀行他最近開出了第一槍他宣布到明年底不再支付任何廣告費用給非實名制的各社群平臺也不得邀請網紅代言各項業務向非實名制的Google、Line、Facebook、YouTube、IG等等不願承擔房主詐騙責任的行為正式宣戰就是不向這個沒有實名制的這些網路平臺下廣告那請問一下"},{"start":361.411,"end":383.309,"text":"部長覺得這個策略這個政策怎麼樣當然這個策略提出來以後相關的金融事業也都跟進我覺得這是一個很好的都有跟進嗎幾乎都跟進啦我們的這個公股、行庫對公股、行庫全部都跟進了對都跟進啦有嗎有沒有有沒有誰沒有跟進的誰誰沒有跟進的"},{"start":391.356,"end":397.124,"text":"有落實掉了我們趙峰董事長他要補充說明趙峰董事長"},{"start":402.117,"end":427.224,"text":"報告委員關谷銀行都在我們是上禮拜四那上禮拜四上禮拜五就都已經跟進了那現在呢我們從媒體上看到大概投信投顧工會他們也用工會的力量也邀請大家一起來參與那銀行工會勒銀行工會還沒有還沒有做這一方面的這個要求不過我相信接下來的話我們應該可以看到一些民營銀行也會跟進那您現在也是銀行工會的這個理事長嘛"},{"start":427.904,"end":453.846,"text":"那這個部長那是不是我們也能夠請這個銀行公會這個以自律公約的方式來要求這個我們的銀行不要在這個沒有實名制的這個網路平台上面下廣告可能這個部分由財政部去請銀行公會來做自律公約這個可能是不是有金管會做來會更適合一點那這個董董勒董董是"},{"start":455.61,"end":478.52,"text":"報告委員 我們會在公會裡面就是用道德勸說的方式希望大家能夠配合不過我想跟大家報告跟委員報告一件事情就是我們是不投廣告但是如果說我們所傳遞給消費者的訊息給我們客戶的訊息是跟交易相關的譬如說我們的客戶他如果信用卡刷卡我們會傳遞他可能透過社交媒體我們傳遞他他有這一段交易"},{"start":479.12,"end":505.852,"text":"訊息告知跟投廣告是兩回事那個是防詐所以我覺得那個是我們是我是認為那你既然是銀行公會的理事長那也應該這個這個帶頭來做除了公股銀行之外我們希望說這個所有的銀行既然這個要一起打詐防詐那大家就一起來做那我再問一下莊部長那我們的各個部會哩比如像財政部哩"},{"start":507.341,"end":533.524,"text":"是不是也要帶頭巨頭這個沒有實名制的這些廣告我們有投這個廣告嗎我們本來也沒有在做這個廣告本來就沒有你督導一下我是希望說沒有嗎你們有時候有一些你自己下面的一些所屬單位有沒有下廣告你去查一下我們再做盤點一下是謝謝那就是我們就帶頭也來做好不好是的應該的對打炸的來說好"},{"start":535.359,"end":550.434,"text":"董總請回那那個在11月1號總諮詢的時候不是總預算的諮詢我有提到就是說這個今年稅收是不是有望超徵2000億那部長那時候回應是非常的保守就是說這個2000億可能有機會有可能會達成"},{"start":555.479,"end":582.006,"text":"但是你們昨天就開了一個記者會這個今年總稅收將由於預算數的4千億規模隔旺創歷史第三高這個是你們財政部的記者會嘛 對不對這個比我這個11月1號問的時候等於double勒那時候講2千億就是現在是可以這個收到大概4千億到10月份為止啦那如果我們來推估的話啦前10月達成率是116.2%"},{"start":584.927,"end":588.352,"text":"估算的話 超收會到5000億部長怎麼看這個數字"},{"start":590.947,"end":614.93,"text":"跟委員報告委員上次在質詢的時候有提到當時我有提到就是說因為10月份還有10月份有一個不是9月份有一個盈利事業的站腳稅款要進來到10月份才會陸續賬才會看得出來所以我到11月中的時候數字會比較沒有啦那個差距太多了啦部長你的講法都非常非常的保守是是是這很保守"},{"start":615.63,"end":634.941,"text":"對,然後到10月底的數字已經統計出來所以我們昨天的記者會就直接說了就是說全國的部分時增數會超過預算數4千億然後中央數會超過預算數的3千億那如果按照這個比例來看年底是不是有可能到達5千億啊不,我們這個超過數就是指到年底為止沒有,現在10月啊你現在已經不是到10月份嗎"},{"start":635.941,"end":651.207,"text":"對,不不不,根據10月的時增數來推估全年會超出的數額所以這個是4千億是全年度?全年度會超出4千億?對對對,是的負稅超出的話呢,那個舉債就會減少那113年總預算呢,預計舉債是1267億特別預算舉債是2637億,合計是3904億這是113年的總預算那請問一下目前舉債的執行數勒?"},{"start":665.884,"end":692.238,"text":"總預算的舉借我們並沒有借然後特別預算的也沒有總預算沒有借總預算都沒有借因為原來編的數字我們都沒有去借所以你們編的這個不論是這個總預算、特別預算3900億都沒有去借就對了因為稅務執行的好的話我就會用稅務的錢然後去來去做一些稅出的支應所以在總預算的部分沒有借特別預算應該也沒有借這署長要補充嗎特別預算的部分"},{"start":694.767,"end":709.807,"text":"特別預算是借多少?特別預算有借總預算的部分沒有借?沒有借,然後也還了1158億債的部分也先還了特別預算是借了多少?特別預算借了"},{"start":712.062,"end":739.389,"text":"我們待會我們查一下再跟委員報告那等於是說本來要借的沒有借對那要還債對那總預算的部分是沒有借特別預算有借對那還債預算原編的1150我們還了1158那到12月我們會再增加還債那如果有稅計剩餘的話財政部有什麼規劃的運用嗎稅計剩餘的話就會進到主計總處那邊去他作為以後年度的一個融資財源對那當然啦那我是說部長你有什麼樣的規劃嗎"},{"start":740.988,"end":760.873,"text":"呃沒有我們就還是減少舉債增加還債啊呵呵這就是你們的規劃就對了對對對因為這樣讓財第一個債務餘額不會不會一直累積上升很多然後再加上財政就會有韌性那我們到累積剩餘以後明年或後年他需要支出的話就是多一些融資的財源那減少一些可以需要舉的債的數額好"},{"start":762.593,"end":784.585,"text":"臺灣法要小心翼翼,這個前6000多月下去的話,中央是很難去做運作的地方掙了這麼多錢,那權力也應該要下放,這個都要事權跟這個錢都要講清楚因為整個如果這樣的話,連重大建設可能推動上都會受到影響謝謝,謝謝主席、謝謝部長謝謝昆城,接著請伍麗華委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":925,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時01分）謝謝主席，我們請財政部莊部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好，民進黨其實是委曲求全，我們還是一致認為上個禮拜三由陳玉珍召委3分鐘就通過的財劃法完全不合理，完全沒有經過討論，送出去的法案其實是不合乎程序的，尤其財劃法這麼重要的法案，3分鐘就送過去。按照國民黨要通過的財劃法，要增加6,612億元，中央只剩下1,157億元可以用，按照他們的版本來看，國稅的部分，所得稅總收入從10%提高到25%，都用114年預算來試算的話，從1,942億元增加到4,856億元。營業稅總收入從40%提高到100%，完全拿到地方，114年預算試算是從2,553億元增加到6,383億元，土地增值稅全部都由地方使用。按照國民黨的版本，我們來試算一下，用113年縣市的統籌款和113年各縣市的地方歲出款來看的話，有9個縣市不計地方稅，統籌分配款就比歲出預算還要多，就是從國民黨的版本所搶來的錢，搬到地方去的話，有9個縣市拿到的統籌分配款就比113年的歲出預算還多。連江縣113年歲出預算是44億元，按照國民黨的版本，它可以拿到69億元，更不用說還有許多的縣市。請教部長，行政院主計總處副主計長蔡鴻坤說，如果按照國民黨的版本有6,612億元的財源下去，相關的事權應該要做調整，例如健保、老農津貼就應該回歸地方政府辦理。地方財源大幅增加之後，也不能要求中央對地方的一般性補助款不能夠減少，因為他認為這不合理。請教部長，除了主計總處提到的健保和老農津貼要下放，不由中央來支出之外，財政部認為有哪些事權應該要調整？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員，收入的劃分一定要配合事權的劃分，事權的劃分才有所謂支出的劃分，然後才有收入的劃分，所以今天如果只是考慮要把這麼多的錢，增加6,612億元劃到地方去的話，一定要先考慮事權，但事權涉及到各部會目前的業務執掌裡面哪一些是中央政府、哪一些地方政府，必須要重新檢討，所以事權調整涉及到各部會的權責任務。"],["李委員坤城：但我們沒有討論到事權的調整。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，目前完全沒有調整。"],["李委員坤城：那你要如何去因應呢？按照國民黨的版本，他們就是要搶6,000多億元，有哪一些是本來由中央出，現在要改由地方來出？"],["莊部長翠雲：例如主計總處在健保和老農津貼這個部分，原來是地方的，後來中央來做，大概就一千多億元，事實上還有五千多億元要怎樣去做調整，所以會造成中央完全施政上的困難，但是哪些要劃分到地方，目前都還沒有討論，因為目前財政部開會的是先討論水平分配各個指標，指標必須要有共識，然後再做權重。"],["李委員坤城：但是這也迫在眉睫啊！這也是很緊急啊！如果按照國民黨版本的話，他就是要搶這麼多錢下去，你當然要想中央政府怎麼因應，有哪些本來是由中央出的，現在就是由地方出，你們有想到了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前來說，第一，既然要增加這麼多，一般性補助款還不能減少，依照現在國民黨的版本是一般補助款也不能減少，就整個財政來說，中央已經沒有辦法，扣掉法定義務支出，能做的社會福利都不能做了。"],["李委員坤城：剩一千一百多億元而已。"],["莊部長翠雲：例如育兒津貼、租金補貼，這些原來都是中央統一在做的，還有TPASS這些，可能都沒有財源再來處理，所以在事權調整上必須要各個部會一起來討論怎麼因應調整。"],["李委員坤城：你剛剛提到不管是育兒津貼、少子化的一些補助，或者中央社宅、租金的補貼、TPASS等等，本來由中央支付的，未來都有可能改由地方支出？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分都要重新來劃分。"],["李委員坤城：茲事體大，你們要有因應，國民黨是不會等你想好之後才要怎麼做，他就是硬幹了，你要有這個心理準備。再請教一下，兆豐銀行最近開出了第一槍，它宣布到明年底不再支付任何廣告費用給非實名制的各社群平台，也不得邀請網紅代言各項業務，向非實名制的Google、LINE、Facebook、YouTube、IG等等不願承擔防阻詐騙責任的行為正式宣戰，就是不向沒有實名制的這些網路平台下廣告。請問部長覺得這個政策怎麼樣？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個策略提出來以後，相關的金融事業也都跟進，我覺得這是很好的。"],["李委員坤城：都有跟進嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：幾乎都跟進了。"],["李委員坤城：公股行庫全部都跟進了？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，都跟進了。"],["李委員坤城：有嗎？有沒有誰沒跟進的？有沒有漏掉的？"],["莊部長翠雲：兆豐董事長要補充說明。"],["主席：請兆豐董事長。"],["董董事長瑞斌：報告委員，官股銀行在上禮拜四、禮拜五都已經跟進了，現在我們從媒體上看到投信投顧公會也用公會的力量邀請大家一起來參與。"],["李委員坤城：銀行公會呢？"],["董董事長瑞斌：銀行公會還沒有做這方面的要求，不過接下來應該可以看到一些民營銀行也會跟進。"],["李委員坤城：你現在也是銀行公會的理事長嘛！"],["董董事長瑞斌：對。"],["李委員坤城：部長，我們是不是也能請銀行公會以自律公約的方式來要求銀行不要在沒有實名制的網路平臺上面下廣告？"],["莊部長翠雲：是不是由金管會來做更適合一點。"],["李委員坤城：董董呢？"],["董董事長瑞斌：我們會在公會裡面用道德勸說的方式，希望大家能夠配合，不過我想跟委員報告一件事情，我們是不投廣告，如果我們傳遞給消費者的訊息、給客戶的訊息是跟交易相關的，例如我們的客戶信用卡刷卡，我們可能會透過社交媒體傳遞他有這個交易。"],["李委員坤城：訊息告知和投廣告是兩回事。"],["董董董事瑞斌：對，那是防詐，那個我們是贊成的。"],["李委員坤城：你既然是銀行公會的理事長，也應該帶頭來做，除了公股銀行之外，我們希望所有的銀行，既然邀請打詐、防詐，大家就一起來做。","再請教莊部長，各個部會呢？例如財政部呢？是不是也要帶頭拒投沒有實名制的這些廣告？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們本來也沒有做這個廣告。"],["李委員坤城：本來就沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有。"],["李委員坤城：你督導一下，你的所屬單位有沒有下廣告，你去查一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們再做盤點。"],["李委員坤城：你們就帶頭也來做，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，應該的。"],["李委員坤城：在11月1日總預算質詢的時候，我有提到今年的稅收是不是有望超徵2,000億元，部長那時候回應非常保守，說2,000億元可能有機會達成，但是你們昨天就開了一個記者會，今年總稅收將逾預算數4,000億元，規模可望創歷史第三高，這是你們財政部的記者會，對不對？等於比我11月1日問的加倍了，那時候講2,000億元，現在可以多收大概4,000億元，到10月份為止，如果來推估的話，前10月達成率是116.2%，估算超收會到5,000億元，部長怎麼看這個數字？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員上次質詢的時候我有提到因為9月份有一個營利事業的暫繳稅款要進來，到10月份帳才會陸續看得出來，所以要到11月中的時候數字會比較確認。"],["李委員坤城：沒有啦！差距太多了。"],["莊部長翠雲：當時有跟委員說明。"],["李委員坤城：部長的講法都非常非常保守。"],["莊部長翠雲：到10月底的數字已經統計出來，所以我們昨天的記者會就直接說了，全國的實徵數超過預算數4,000億元，中央數會超過預算數3,000億元。"],["李委員坤城：如果按照這比率來看，年底是不是有可能到達5,000億元？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個超過數就是指到年底為止。"],["李委員坤城：現在不是到10月份嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：不不不，是根據10月的實徵數來推估全年會超出的數額。"],["李委員坤城：所以這4,000億元是全年度？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，全年的。"],["李委員坤城：全年度會超過4,000億元？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["李委員坤城：賦稅超收的話，舉債就會減少，113年總預算預計舉債1,267億元，特別預算舉債2,637億元，合計是3,904億元，請問一下，目前舉債的執行數呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：總預算的舉借我們並沒有借，特別預算也沒有。"],["李委員坤城：總預算沒有借？"],["莊部長翠雲：總預算都沒有借，原來編的數字我們都沒有去借。"],["李委員坤城：所以你們編的不論是總預算或特別預算3,904億元都沒有去借就對了？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為歲入執行得好的話，我就會用歲入的錢來作歲出的支應，所以在總預算的部分沒有借，特別預算應該也沒有借。"],["李委員坤城：署長要補充嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：特別預算是借多少？特別預算有借。"],["李委員坤城：總預算的部分沒有借？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有借。"],["李委員坤城：特別預算？"],["莊部長翠雲：也先還了1,158億元的債。"],["李委員坤城：特別預算借了多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們查一下再跟委員報告。"],["李委員坤城：等於說本來要借的沒有借，又還債。"],["莊部長翠雲：總預算的部分沒有借，特別預算有借，還債預算原編了1,150億元，我們還了1,158億元，到時候會再增加還債。"],["李委員坤城：如果有歲計賸餘的話，財政部有什麼規劃運用嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：歲計賸餘就會進到主計總處那邊，作為以後年度的融資財源。"],["李委員坤城：我是說部長有怎樣的規劃嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，我們還是減少舉債、增加還債。"],["李委員坤城：這就是你們的規劃？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，第一，債務餘額不會一直累積上去，加上財政就會有韌性，我們累計賸餘之後，明年或後年需要支出的時候，就多一些融資的財源，減少一些需要舉債的數額。"],["李委員坤城：財劃法要小心因應啦！這個錢六千多億元下去的話，中央是很難運作的。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟未來的重大建設也有關係。"],["李委員坤城：地方多了這麼多錢，權力也應該要下放，事權和錢都要講清楚。"],["莊部長翠雲：因為如果這樣，連重大建設推動都可能受到影響。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝主席，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝坤城。","接著請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}}