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{\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 213.829, \"end\": 214.009, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 214.009, \"end\": 214.489, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 214.489, \"end\": 214.81, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 214.81, \"end\": 214.83, \"score\": 0.937}]}, {\"start\": 215.59, \"end\": 222.035, \"text\": \"那這個文字上面是很明顯的它有兩個部分一個是簡訊的騷擾一個是言語的騷擾兩個都是很明確的有性騷擾的問題那我們看一下國軍人員性騷案件的懲罰建議表\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 215.59, \"end\": 215.99, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 215.99, \"end\": 216.211, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 216.211, \"end\": 216.351, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 216.351, \"end\": 216.551, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 216.551, \"end\": 216.771, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 216.771, \"end\": 216.971, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 216.971, \"end\": 217.171, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 217.171, \"end\": 217.712, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"顯\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 217.712, \"end\": 217.892, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 217.892, \"end\": 218.112, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 218.112, \"end\": 218.993, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 218.993, \"end\": 219.233, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 219.233, \"end\": 219.553, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 219.553, \"end\": 219.633, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 219.633, \"end\": 219.653, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.653, \"end\": 219.713, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 219.713, \"end\": 219.733, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 219.733, \"end\": 219.753, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 219.753, \"end\": 219.773, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.773, \"end\": 219.793, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 219.793, \"end\": 219.813, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 219.813, \"end\": 219.953, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 219.953, \"end\": 219.973, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 219.973, \"end\": 220.113, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 220.113, \"end\": 220.153, \"score\": 0.493}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 220.153, \"end\": 220.173, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 220.173, \"end\": 220.353, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 220.353, \"end\": 220.494, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 220.494, \"end\": 220.514, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 220.514, \"end\": 220.774, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 220.774, \"end\": 220.994, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 220.994, \"end\": 221.134, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 221.134, \"end\": 221.274, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 221.274, \"end\": 221.294, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 221.294, \"end\": 221.534, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 221.534, \"end\": 221.714, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 221.714, \"end\": 221.875, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.875, \"end\": 221.995, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"懲\"}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 221.995, \"end\": 222.015, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 222.015, \"end\": 222.035, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 231.161, \"end\": 245.698, \"text\": \"那這個部分呢言語偷拍、猥褻、簡訊騷擾、肢體騷擾跟言語肢體這個部分它都分成不同的違規態樣所以在以這個案件來說它其實已經違反了言語騷擾是一個然後簡訊騷擾是一個這個案子它應該是已經違反了兩種的態樣好那我們接下來看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 231.161, \"end\": 231.562, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 231.562, \"end\": 231.762, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 231.762, \"end\": 231.942, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 231.942, \"end\": 232.523, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 232.523, \"end\": 233.083, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"偷\", \"start\": 233.083, \"end\": 233.344, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"拍\", \"start\": 233.344, \"end\": 234.084, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"猥\", \"start\": 234.084, \"end\": 234.825, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"褻\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"肢\", \"start\": 234.825, \"end\": 235.446, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 235.446, \"end\": 235.706, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 235.706, \"end\": 236.127, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"肢\", \"start\": 236.127, \"end\": 237.008, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 237.008, \"end\": 237.168, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 237.168, \"end\": 237.308, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 237.308, \"end\": 237.448, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 237.448, \"end\": 237.669, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 237.669, \"end\": 237.909, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 237.909, \"end\": 238.209, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 238.209, \"end\": 238.389, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 238.389, \"end\": 238.67, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 238.67, \"end\": 239.09, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 239.09, \"end\": 239.35, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 239.35, \"end\": 240.592, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 240.592, \"end\": 240.792, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 240.792, \"end\": 241.233, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 241.233, \"end\": 241.413, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 241.413, \"end\": 241.953, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 241.953, \"end\": 242.154, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 242.154, \"end\": 242.454, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 242.454, \"end\": 243.235, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 243.235, \"end\": 243.415, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 243.415, \"end\": 243.695, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 243.695, \"end\": 243.916, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 243.916, \"end\": 243.996, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 243.996, \"end\": 244.016, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 244.016, \"end\": 244.036, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 244.036, \"end\": 244.156, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 244.156, \"end\": 244.176, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 244.176, \"end\": 244.216, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 244.216, \"end\": 244.316, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 244.316, \"end\": 244.356, \"score\": 0.385}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 244.356, \"end\": 244.376, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 244.376, \"end\": 244.496, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 244.496, \"end\": 245.117, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 245.117, \"end\": 245.177, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 245.177, \"end\": 245.197, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 245.197, \"end\": 245.237, \"score\": 0.038}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 245.237, \"end\": 245.257, \"score\": 0.007}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 245.257, \"end\": 245.498, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 245.498, \"end\": 245.518, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 245.518, \"end\": 245.658, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 245.658, \"end\": 245.678, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 245.678, \"end\": 245.698, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 253.284, \"end\": 274.32, \"text\": \"這個呢受害者他經過了什麼他先提出了性騷擾的申訴那在言語騷擾跟簡訊騷擾的部分呢性評會都認為說這是兩個不同的事件他受到了言語騷擾以及簡訊騷擾都是事實那程度是屬於中度的那他們提的建議是性評會提的建議是要\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 253.284, \"end\": 253.945, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 253.945, \"end\": 254.125, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 254.125, \"end\": 254.345, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 254.345, \"end\": 254.485, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 254.485, \"end\": 255.166, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 255.166, \"end\": 255.306, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 255.306, \"end\": 255.946, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 255.946, \"end\": 256.106, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 256.106, \"end\": 256.307, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 256.307, \"end\": 256.487, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 256.487, \"end\": 256.667, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 256.667, \"end\": 256.947, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 256.947, \"end\": 257.467, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 257.467, \"end\": 257.608, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 257.608, \"end\": 258.348, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 258.348, \"end\": 258.508, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 258.508, \"end\": 258.768, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 258.768, \"end\": 259.569, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 259.569, \"end\": 260.53, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 260.53, \"end\": 260.69, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 260.69, \"end\": 260.89, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 260.89, \"end\": 261.07, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 261.07, \"end\": 261.57, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 261.57, \"end\": 262.171, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 262.171, \"end\": 263.132, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 263.132, \"end\": 264.052, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 264.052, \"end\": 264.172, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 264.172, \"end\": 264.372, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 264.372, \"end\": 264.513, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 264.513, \"end\": 264.713, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 264.713, \"end\": 265.133, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 265.133, \"end\": 265.333, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 265.333, \"end\": 265.493, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 265.493, \"end\": 265.633, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 265.633, \"end\": 265.774, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 265.774, \"end\": 266.514, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 266.514, \"end\": 266.634, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 266.634, \"end\": 267.575, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"騷\"}, {\"word\": \"擾\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 267.575, \"end\": 267.775, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 267.775, \"end\": 267.915, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 267.915, \"end\": 268.756, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 268.756, \"end\": 268.996, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 268.996, \"end\": 269.216, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 269.216, \"end\": 269.376, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 269.376, \"end\": 269.696, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 269.696, \"end\": 270.417, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 270.417, \"end\": 270.717, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 270.717, \"end\": 270.917, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 270.917, \"end\": 271.318, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 271.318, \"end\": 271.418, \"score\": 0.644}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 271.418, \"end\": 271.758, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 271.758, \"end\": 272.138, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 272.138, \"end\": 272.378, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 272.378, \"end\": 272.859, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 272.859, \"end\": 273.159, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 273.159, \"end\": 273.639, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 273.639, \"end\": 273.739, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 273.739, \"end\": 273.879, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 273.879, \"end\": 274.16, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 274.16, \"end\": 274.3, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 274.3, \"end\": 274.32, \"score\": 0.516}]}, {\"start\": 276.101, \"end\": 298.928, \"text\": \"各大過一次那我們海軍在處理這件事情的時候呢照理來說他是同一個案子因為是同一個被害人跟同一個加害人但是他就是一案兩大過會直接退太處那這種情況他是可以領退五金但是沒有退縫但我們的海軍的做法呢是把它分成兩個行為各給一大過\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 276.101, \"end\": 276.401, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 276.401, \"end\": 276.841, \"score\": 0.608}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 276.841, \"end\": 277.061, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 277.061, \"end\": 277.662, 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\"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 600.095, \"end\": 600.115, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,096 --> 00:00:01,921\n謝謝主席我們有請顧部長來部長請\n\n2\n00:00:11,317 --> 00:00:32,265\n社區委員好部長好其實首先先跟您談一下上一次在跟您在質詢的過程當中有提到這個勞動權益的部分那我在10月30號未還委員會上面有特別向勞動部長何部長請教就是國防部院內呢我們的這個規範約聘人員他如果在五一勞動節是上沒有是\n\n3\n00:00:32,805 --> 00:00:58,278\n上班的情況的話那沒有提供加班費那有沒有違反勞動基準法的一律那部長說呢可能是有的所以他有提到說會找您瞭解此事那保障約聘顧的權益所以我們也希望國防部在這個部分能夠盡快修正因為我想勞動部針對這部分講的應該是比較準確的就約聘顧他假設他選擇在5月1號他沒有他上班的話那\n\n4\n00:00:58,638 --> 00:01:15,149\n因為他是勞工所以他就應該要有勞工的權益那這個再麻煩我們國防部再去跟這個勞動部談一下具體的細節但不需要說明因為事後我們再談因為我們今天主要要談的議題不是這個主要今天部長我要跟您論的是說我們國軍人員在性騷擾處理跟性侵害預防規定裡面有什麼樣的一個保護措施\n\n5\n00:01:24,667 --> 00:01:24,947\n國防部主管\n\n6\n00:01:39,667 --> 00:01:56,798\n有特別的規定說單位在接受性騷擾申訴案件之後要在24小時之內完成以下措施包含立刻隔離當事人被申訴人應該要暫時調離單位到不同營區保護被害人不受到二度傷害這是我們的相關規定\n\n7\n00:01:57,739 --> 00:02:14,249\n但是呢我最近呢接到一個陳情是關於我們的女性的事關他們被這個性騷的情況我們有經過受害者的同意那提供給大家看一下他有兩個部分第一個是簡訊的騷擾簡訊的騷擾呢等一下我看一下圖他就說\n\n8\n00:02:22,381 --> 00:02:39,091\n他在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有那個圖嗎你要不要放一下那個圖反正呢他的在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有寫說不然吃掉你也行他就在講說吃午餐的部分\n\n9\n00:02:39,651 --> 00:02:54,416\n然後呢對方就不太想回答他然後他就說不是你親手做的那對方被害人說是我買的然後呢這個市都他就說也不是親口味然後對方就給了一個很尷尬的圖片這個很明顯的叫做簡訊的騷擾\n\n10\n00:02:59,258 --> 00:03:00,099\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管\n\n11\n00:03:14,295 --> 00:03:34,830\n的那個老闆就是市都對你有意思之外整體生活過得不算差難怪死活都不給我親被害者說本來就不行市都說為什麼不行被害者說為什麼可以你哪一個身份可以市都說因為我喜歡你啊這個答案你滿意嗎市都說想不到原因了吧認命吧\n\n12\n00:03:35,590 --> 00:03:42,035\n那這個文字上面是很明顯的它有兩個部分一個是簡訊的騷擾一個是言語的騷擾兩個都是很明確的有性騷擾的問題那我們看一下國軍人員性騷案件的懲罰建議表\n\n13\n00:03:51,161 --> 00:04:05,698\n那這個部分呢言語偷拍、猥褻、簡訊騷擾、肢體騷擾跟言語肢體這個部分它都分成不同的違規態樣所以在以這個案件來說它其實已經違反了言語騷擾是一個然後簡訊騷擾是一個這個案子它應該是已經違反了兩種的態樣好那我們接下來看\n\n14\n00:04:13,284 --> 00:04:34,320\n這個呢受害者他經過了什麼他先提出了性騷擾的申訴那在言語騷擾跟簡訊騷擾的部分呢性評會都認為說這是兩個不同的事件他受到了言語騷擾以及簡訊騷擾都是事實那程度是屬於中度的那他們提的建議是性評會提的建議是要\n\n15\n00:04:36,101 --> 00:04:58,928\n各大過一次那我們海軍在處理這件事情的時候呢照理來說他是同一個案子因為是同一個被害人跟同一個加害人但是他就是一案兩大過會直接退太處那這種情況他是可以領退五金但是沒有退縫但我們的海軍的做法呢是把它分成兩個行為各給一大過\n\n16\n00:05:01,149 --> 00:05:28,522\n那呢這樣的結果會變成是今年度的烤雞餅上明年才召開不釋服的人評會所以呢就等於說他今年一整年他還是可以繼續在軍中裡面那這就會讓我們的這個受害者覺得非常的恐懼尤其是他明明是同一個受害人跟同一個加害人那應該是同一個案子裡面的兩件事情那我想要問一下為什麼不是憑他一案兩大過\n\n17\n00:05:31,691 --> 00:05:49,919\n呃委員好我是海軍參謀長嗯那這個案子我們也高度的關切我們也要特別保護這個當事人這個我們都做的因為這是一個呃性評會他是一個呃有獨立他有召開一個委員會那這些還有會考量的因素可能是有第一個因為他這個是沒有\n\n18\n00:05:50,219 --> 00:06:04,197\n我問的是你們海軍做的決定嗎你不要先講那邊人家姓平慧已經有相關的這個說明了我問的是海軍你明明可以選擇一案兩大過直接太除為什麼你要把他分成兩個行為各一大過讓他再繼續在這個\n\n19\n00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,103\n所以以後不同時間然後去騷擾只要不是同時的他都用這樣子來做嗎?\n\n20\n00:06:30,181 --> 00:06:50,666\n實際上他慶平會他就是告訴你他程度是中國你可以各大過一次嘛那你一案兩大過是兩行為各一大過是你海軍的裁決嘛我再給部長看一下後續的喔不只這樣子而已喔這是二度的傷害來我們看下一張這個被害人提出申訴是在7月9號的時候我們剛剛有給大家看我們國軍的處理時間應該要在24小時之內隔離對方你們10月16號才把這個市都調到指揮部\n\n21\n00:06:59,088 --> 00:07:14,283\n那就已經違反相關規定啦然後再來呢這個被調動人員的職務呢還是他的上級單位所以你們等到10月30號下午3點的時候才告訴這個被害人說要把他調動職務那我要問的問題喔為什麼你們是調動被害人的職務不是調動加害人的職務呢\n\n22\n00:07:20,185 --> 00:07:23,569\n你調了加害人之後然後呢他還是他的上級然後後來你10月30號你調動了被害人的職務你們有沒有人去跟被害人講說要調他職務你們有沒有去跟他講過說想要做這件事情嗎\n\n23\n00:07:38,886 --> 00:08:00,202\n如果不是今天後來我們來告訴你們說有這個事情很嚴重你們就是有人跟被害人講說我想要嘗試調動你的職務但導致了被害人覺得我是被害人為什麼我的職務要被調動那所以有了這樣子的一個澄清之後那才免除了這件事情那我的意思是說你不覺得中間有需要檢討的地方嗎\n\n24\n00:08:01,124 --> 00:08:01,565\n一案兩大過或兩案一大過\n\n25\n00:08:16,264 --> 00:08:40,953\n那主席讓我統整一下第二個問題在於違反24小時的規定第三個問題是你們裡面有人去找了這個被害人說想要嘗試調動他的職務這三件事情裡面顯然有違規的問題我想要問部長能不能將這件事情送政風做調查委員能不能回到您剛剛那個姓平慧的那一張裡面姓平慧的那一個部分他到底是建議什麼\n\n26\n00:08:41,636 --> 00:08:50,263\n他建議就是他的程度是中度然後呢可以建議各大過一次所以他的建議也是各一大過\n\n27\n00:08:51,443 --> 00:09:16,711\n但是你們這個後面所謂的各一大過你是把它做成這個兩個不同的行為各一大過那它會導致於說你明年才你會讓他待一整年而且他可以選擇他直接退伍他就跟這件事情完全沒有關係我跟委員報告就是說我的第一點就是說他們的最後跟他記過的方式到底跟信民會的決議是不是一致\n\n28\n00:09:18,211 --> 00:09:35,182\n這一點因為剛剛看起來好像兩個是一致的這是第一點第二點因為對這個案子本身我想我下去我們會再仔細的了解一下這樣子再跟委員做報告那最後我們還有一個訴求就是說呢因為這個人他可以在案件尚未定案之前直接退伍\n\n29\n00:09:36,362 --> 00:10:00,115\n所以我希望說我們在國軍人員性騷擾處理及性侵害預防實施規定裡面能夠增訂涉性平案件的申訴人在未定案之前不得退伍希望你們可以回去思考一下否則以這個案例來說這個人他立刻退伍之後這件事情就已經跟他沒有關係了那我想這個是非常對被害人非常不公平的情況那請部長來評估好不好謝謝因為時間不夠的關係我們就另外再談好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1096\t1921\t謝謝主席我們有請顧部長來部長請\n11317\t32265\t社區委員好部長好其實首先先跟您談一下上一次在跟您在質詢的過程當中有提到這個勞動權益的部分那我在10月30號未還委員會上面有特別向勞動部長何部長請教就是國防部院內呢我們的這個規範約聘人員他如果在五一勞動節是上沒有是\n32805\t58278\t上班的情況的話那沒有提供加班費那有沒有違反勞動基準法的一律那部長說呢可能是有的所以他有提到說會找您瞭解此事那保障約聘顧的權益所以我們也希望國防部在這個部分能夠盡快修正因為我想勞動部針對這部分講的應該是比較準確的就約聘顧他假設他選擇在5月1號他沒有他上班的話那\n58638\t75149\t因為他是勞工所以他就應該要有勞工的權益那這個再麻煩我們國防部再去跟這個勞動部談一下具體的細節但不需要說明因為事後我們再談因為我們今天主要要談的議題不是這個主要今天部長我要跟您論的是說我們國軍人員在性騷擾處理跟性侵害預防規定裡面有什麼樣的一個保護措施\n84667\t84947\t國防部主管\n99667\t116798\t有特別的規定說單位在接受性騷擾申訴案件之後要在24小時之內完成以下措施包含立刻隔離當事人被申訴人應該要暫時調離單位到不同營區保護被害人不受到二度傷害這是我們的相關規定\n117739\t134249\t但是呢我最近呢接到一個陳情是關於我們的女性的事關他們被這個性騷的情況我們有經過受害者的同意那提供給大家看一下他有兩個部分第一個是簡訊的騷擾簡訊的騷擾呢等一下我看一下圖他就說\n142381\t159091\t他在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有那個圖嗎你要不要放一下那個圖反正呢他的在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有寫說不然吃掉你也行他就在講說吃午餐的部分\n159651\t174416\t然後呢對方就不太想回答他然後他就說不是你親手做的那對方被害人說是我買的然後呢這個市都他就說也不是親口味然後對方就給了一個很尷尬的圖片這個很明顯的叫做簡訊的騷擾\n179258\t180099\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管\n194295\t214830\t的那個老闆就是市都對你有意思之外整體生活過得不算差難怪死活都不給我親被害者說本來就不行市都說為什麼不行被害者說為什麼可以你哪一個身份可以市都說因為我喜歡你啊這個答案你滿意嗎市都說想不到原因了吧認命吧\n215590\t222035\t那這個文字上面是很明顯的它有兩個部分一個是簡訊的騷擾一個是言語的騷擾兩個都是很明確的有性騷擾的問題那我們看一下國軍人員性騷案件的懲罰建議表\n231161\t245698\t那這個部分呢言語偷拍、猥褻、簡訊騷擾、肢體騷擾跟言語肢體這個部分它都分成不同的違規態樣所以在以這個案件來說它其實已經違反了言語騷擾是一個然後簡訊騷擾是一個這個案子它應該是已經違反了兩種的態樣好那我們接下來看\n253284\t274320\t這個呢受害者他經過了什麼他先提出了性騷擾的申訴那在言語騷擾跟簡訊騷擾的部分呢性評會都認為說這是兩個不同的事件他受到了言語騷擾以及簡訊騷擾都是事實那程度是屬於中度的那他們提的建議是性評會提的建議是要\n276101\t298928\t各大過一次那我們海軍在處理這件事情的時候呢照理來說他是同一個案子因為是同一個被害人跟同一個加害人但是他就是一案兩大過會直接退太處那這種情況他是可以領退五金但是沒有退縫但我們的海軍的做法呢是把它分成兩個行為各給一大過\n301149\t328522\t那呢這樣的結果會變成是今年度的烤雞餅上明年才召開不釋服的人評會所以呢就等於說他今年一整年他還是可以繼續在軍中裡面那這就會讓我們的這個受害者覺得非常的恐懼尤其是他明明是同一個受害人跟同一個加害人那應該是同一個案子裡面的兩件事情那我想要問一下為什麼不是憑他一案兩大過\n331691\t349919\t呃委員好我是海軍參謀長嗯那這個案子我們也高度的關切我們也要特別保護這個當事人這個我們都做的因為這是一個呃性評會他是一個呃有獨立他有召開一個委員會那這些還有會考量的因素可能是有第一個因為他這個是沒有\n350219\t364197\t我問的是你們海軍做的決定嗎你不要先講那邊人家姓平慧已經有相關的這個說明了我問的是海軍你明明可以選擇一案兩大過直接太除為什麼你要把他分成兩個行為各一大過讓他再繼續在這個\n366800\t370103\t所以以後不同時間然後去騷擾只要不是同時的他都用這樣子來做嗎?\n390181\t410666\t實際上他慶平會他就是告訴你他程度是中國你可以各大過一次嘛那你一案兩大過是兩行為各一大過是你海軍的裁決嘛我再給部長看一下後續的喔不只這樣子而已喔這是二度的傷害來我們看下一張這個被害人提出申訴是在7月9號的時候我們剛剛有給大家看我們國軍的處理時間應該要在24小時之內隔離對方你們10月16號才把這個市都調到指揮部\n419088\t434283\t那就已經違反相關規定啦然後再來呢這個被調動人員的職務呢還是他的上級單位所以你們等到10月30號下午3點的時候才告訴這個被害人說要把他調動職務那我要問的問題喔為什麼你們是調動被害人的職務不是調動加害人的職務呢\n440185\t443569\t你調了加害人之後然後呢他還是他的上級然後後來你10月30號你調動了被害人的職務你們有沒有人去跟被害人講說要調他職務你們有沒有去跟他講過說想要做這件事情嗎\n458886\t480202\t如果不是今天後來我們來告訴你們說有這個事情很嚴重你們就是有人跟被害人講說我想要嘗試調動你的職務但導致了被害人覺得我是被害人為什麼我的職務要被調動那所以有了這樣子的一個澄清之後那才免除了這件事情那我的意思是說你不覺得中間有需要檢討的地方嗎\n481124\t481565\t一案兩大過或兩案一大過\n496264\t520953\t那主席讓我統整一下第二個問題在於違反24小時的規定第三個問題是你們裡面有人去找了這個被害人說想要嘗試調動他的職務這三件事情裡面顯然有違規的問題我想要問部長能不能將這件事情送政風做調查委員能不能回到您剛剛那個姓平慧的那一張裡面姓平慧的那一個部分他到底是建議什麼\n521636\t530263\t他建議就是他的程度是中度然後呢可以建議各大過一次所以他的建議也是各一大過\n531443\t556711\t但是你們這個後面所謂的各一大過你是把它做成這個兩個不同的行為各一大過那它會導致於說你明年才你會讓他待一整年而且他可以選擇他直接退伍他就跟這件事情完全沒有關係我跟委員報告就是說我的第一點就是說他們的最後跟他記過的方式到底跟信民會的決議是不是一致\n558211\t575182\t這一點因為剛剛看起來好像兩個是一致的這是第一點第二點因為對這個案子本身我想我下去我們會再仔細的了解一下這樣子再跟委員做報告那最後我們還有一個訴求就是說呢因為這個人他可以在案件尚未定案之前直接退伍\n576362\t600115\t所以我希望說我們在國軍人員性騷擾處理及性侵害預防實施規定裡面能夠增訂涉性平案件的申訴人在未定案之前不得退伍希望你們可以回去思考一下否則以這個案例來說這個人他立刻退伍之後這件事情就已經跟他沒有關係了那我想這個是非常對被害人非常不公平的情況那請部長來評估好不好謝謝因為時間不夠的關係我們就另外再談好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們有請顧部長來部長請\n社區委員好部長好其實首先先跟您談一下上一次在跟您在質詢的過程當中有提到這個勞動權益的部分那我在10月30號未還委員會上面有特別向勞動部長何部長請教就是國防部院內呢我們的這個規範約聘人員他如果在五一勞動節是上沒有是\n上班的情況的話那沒有提供加班費那有沒有違反勞動基準法的一律那部長說呢可能是有的所以他有提到說會找您瞭解此事那保障約聘顧的權益所以我們也希望國防部在這個部分能夠盡快修正因為我想勞動部針對這部分講的應該是比較準確的就約聘顧他假設他選擇在5月1號他沒有他上班的話那\n因為他是勞工所以他就應該要有勞工的權益那這個再麻煩我們國防部再去跟這個勞動部談一下具體的細節但不需要說明因為事後我們再談因為我們今天主要要談的議題不是這個主要今天部長我要跟您論的是說我們國軍人員在性騷擾處理跟性侵害預防規定裡面有什麼樣的一個保護措施\n國防部主管\n有特別的規定說單位在接受性騷擾申訴案件之後要在24小時之內完成以下措施包含立刻隔離當事人被申訴人應該要暫時調離單位到不同營區保護被害人不受到二度傷害這是我們的相關規定\n但是呢我最近呢接到一個陳情是關於我們的女性的事關他們被這個性騷的情況我們有經過受害者的同意那提供給大家看一下他有兩個部分第一個是簡訊的騷擾簡訊的騷擾呢等一下我看一下圖他就說\n他在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有那個圖嗎你要不要放一下那個圖反正呢他的在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有寫說不然吃掉你也行他就在講說吃午餐的部分\n然後呢對方就不太想回答他然後他就說不是你親手做的那對方被害人說是我買的然後呢這個市都他就說也不是親口味然後對方就給了一個很尷尬的圖片這個很明顯的叫做簡訊的騷擾\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管\n的那個老闆就是市都對你有意思之外整體生活過得不算差難怪死活都不給我親被害者說本來就不行市都說為什麼不行被害者說為什麼可以你哪一個身份可以市都說因為我喜歡你啊這個答案你滿意嗎市都說想不到原因了吧認命吧\n那這個文字上面是很明顯的它有兩個部分一個是簡訊的騷擾一個是言語的騷擾兩個都是很明確的有性騷擾的問題那我們看一下國軍人員性騷案件的懲罰建議表\n那這個部分呢言語偷拍、猥褻、簡訊騷擾、肢體騷擾跟言語肢體這個部分它都分成不同的違規態樣所以在以這個案件來說它其實已經違反了言語騷擾是一個然後簡訊騷擾是一個這個案子它應該是已經違反了兩種的態樣好那我們接下來看\n這個呢受害者他經過了什麼他先提出了性騷擾的申訴那在言語騷擾跟簡訊騷擾的部分呢性評會都認為說這是兩個不同的事件他受到了言語騷擾以及簡訊騷擾都是事實那程度是屬於中度的那他們提的建議是性評會提的建議是要\n各大過一次那我們海軍在處理這件事情的時候呢照理來說他是同一個案子因為是同一個被害人跟同一個加害人但是他就是一案兩大過會直接退太處那這種情況他是可以領退五金但是沒有退縫但我們的海軍的做法呢是把它分成兩個行為各給一大過\n那呢這樣的結果會變成是今年度的烤雞餅上明年才召開不釋服的人評會所以呢就等於說他今年一整年他還是可以繼續在軍中裡面那這就會讓我們的這個受害者覺得非常的恐懼尤其是他明明是同一個受害人跟同一個加害人那應該是同一個案子裡面的兩件事情那我想要問一下為什麼不是憑他一案兩大過\n呃委員好我是海軍參謀長嗯那這個案子我們也高度的關切我們也要特別保護這個當事人這個我們都做的因為這是一個呃性評會他是一個呃有獨立他有召開一個委員會那這些還有會考量的因素可能是有第一個因為他這個是沒有\n我問的是你們海軍做的決定嗎你不要先講那邊人家姓平慧已經有相關的這個說明了我問的是海軍你明明可以選擇一案兩大過直接太除為什麼你要把他分成兩個行為各一大過讓他再繼續在這個\n所以以後不同時間然後去騷擾只要不是同時的他都用這樣子來做嗎?\n實際上他慶平會他就是告訴你他程度是中國你可以各大過一次嘛那你一案兩大過是兩行為各一大過是你海軍的裁決嘛我再給部長看一下後續的喔不只這樣子而已喔這是二度的傷害來我們看下一張這個被害人提出申訴是在7月9號的時候我們剛剛有給大家看我們國軍的處理時間應該要在24小時之內隔離對方你們10月16號才把這個市都調到指揮部\n那就已經違反相關規定啦然後再來呢這個被調動人員的職務呢還是他的上級單位所以你們等到10月30號下午3點的時候才告訴這個被害人說要把他調動職務那我要問的問題喔為什麼你們是調動被害人的職務不是調動加害人的職務呢\n你調了加害人之後然後呢他還是他的上級然後後來你10月30號你調動了被害人的職務你們有沒有人去跟被害人講說要調他職務你們有沒有去跟他講過說想要做這件事情嗎\n如果不是今天後來我們來告訴你們說有這個事情很嚴重你們就是有人跟被害人講說我想要嘗試調動你的職務但導致了被害人覺得我是被害人為什麼我的職務要被調動那所以有了這樣子的一個澄清之後那才免除了這件事情那我的意思是說你不覺得中間有需要檢討的地方嗎\n一案兩大過或兩案一大過\n那主席讓我統整一下第二個問題在於違反24小時的規定第三個問題是你們裡面有人去找了這個被害人說想要嘗試調動他的職務這三件事情裡面顯然有違規的問題我想要問部長能不能將這件事情送政風做調查委員能不能回到您剛剛那個姓平慧的那一張裡面姓平慧的那一個部分他到底是建議什麼\n他建議就是他的程度是中度然後呢可以建議各大過一次所以他的建議也是各一大過\n但是你們這個後面所謂的各一大過你是把它做成這個兩個不同的行為各一大過那它會導致於說你明年才你會讓他待一整年而且他可以選擇他直接退伍他就跟這件事情完全沒有關係我跟委員報告就是說我的第一點就是說他們的最後跟他記過的方式到底跟信民會的決議是不是一致\n這一點因為剛剛看起來好像兩個是一致的這是第一點第二點因為對這個案子本身我想我下去我們會再仔細的了解一下這樣子再跟委員做報告那最後我們還有一個訴求就是說呢因為這個人他可以在案件尚未定案之前直接退伍\n所以我希望說我們在國軍人員性騷擾處理及性侵害預防實施規定裡面能夠增訂涉性平案件的申訴人在未定案之前不得退伍希望你們可以回去思考一下否則以這個案例來說這個人他立刻退伍之後這件事情就已經跟他沒有關係了那我想這個是非常對被害人非常不公平的情況那請部長來評估好不好謝謝因為時間不夠的關係我們就另外再談好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.096 --> 00:01.921\n謝謝主席我們有請顧部長來部長請\n\n00:11.317 --> 00:32.265\n社區委員好部長好其實首先先跟您談一下上一次在跟您在質詢的過程當中有提到這個勞動權益的部分那我在10月30號未還委員會上面有特別向勞動部長何部長請教就是國防部院內呢我們的這個規範約聘人員他如果在五一勞動節是上沒有是\n\n00:32.805 --> 00:58.278\n上班的情況的話那沒有提供加班費那有沒有違反勞動基準法的一律那部長說呢可能是有的所以他有提到說會找您瞭解此事那保障約聘顧的權益所以我們也希望國防部在這個部分能夠盡快修正因為我想勞動部針對這部分講的應該是比較準確的就約聘顧他假設他選擇在5月1號他沒有他上班的話那\n\n00:58.638 --> 01:15.149\n因為他是勞工所以他就應該要有勞工的權益那這個再麻煩我們國防部再去跟這個勞動部談一下具體的細節但不需要說明因為事後我們再談因為我們今天主要要談的議題不是這個主要今天部長我要跟您論的是說我們國軍人員在性騷擾處理跟性侵害預防規定裡面有什麼樣的一個保護措施\n\n01:24.667 --> 01:24.947\n國防部主管\n\n01:39.667 --> 01:56.798\n有特別的規定說單位在接受性騷擾申訴案件之後要在24小時之內完成以下措施包含立刻隔離當事人被申訴人應該要暫時調離單位到不同營區保護被害人不受到二度傷害這是我們的相關規定\n\n01:57.739 --> 02:14.249\n但是呢我最近呢接到一個陳情是關於我們的女性的事關他們被這個性騷的情況我們有經過受害者的同意那提供給大家看一下他有兩個部分第一個是簡訊的騷擾簡訊的騷擾呢等一下我看一下圖他就說\n\n02:22.381 --> 02:39.091\n他在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有那個圖嗎你要不要放一下那個圖反正呢他的在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有寫說不然吃掉你也行他就在講說吃午餐的部分\n\n02:39.651 --> 02:54.416\n然後呢對方就不太想回答他然後他就說不是你親手做的那對方被害人說是我買的然後呢這個市都他就說也不是親口味然後對方就給了一個很尷尬的圖片這個很明顯的叫做簡訊的騷擾\n\n02:59.258 --> 03:00.099\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管\n\n03:14.295 --> 03:34.830\n的那個老闆就是市都對你有意思之外整體生活過得不算差難怪死活都不給我親被害者說本來就不行市都說為什麼不行被害者說為什麼可以你哪一個身份可以市都說因為我喜歡你啊這個答案你滿意嗎市都說想不到原因了吧認命吧\n\n03:35.590 --> 03:42.035\n那這個文字上面是很明顯的它有兩個部分一個是簡訊的騷擾一個是言語的騷擾兩個都是很明確的有性騷擾的問題那我們看一下國軍人員性騷案件的懲罰建議表\n\n03:51.161 --> 04:05.698\n那這個部分呢言語偷拍、猥褻、簡訊騷擾、肢體騷擾跟言語肢體這個部分它都分成不同的違規態樣所以在以這個案件來說它其實已經違反了言語騷擾是一個然後簡訊騷擾是一個這個案子它應該是已經違反了兩種的態樣好那我們接下來看\n\n04:13.284 --> 04:34.320\n這個呢受害者他經過了什麼他先提出了性騷擾的申訴那在言語騷擾跟簡訊騷擾的部分呢性評會都認為說這是兩個不同的事件他受到了言語騷擾以及簡訊騷擾都是事實那程度是屬於中度的那他們提的建議是性評會提的建議是要\n\n04:36.101 --> 04:58.928\n各大過一次那我們海軍在處理這件事情的時候呢照理來說他是同一個案子因為是同一個被害人跟同一個加害人但是他就是一案兩大過會直接退太處那這種情況他是可以領退五金但是沒有退縫但我們的海軍的做法呢是把它分成兩個行為各給一大過\n\n05:01.149 --> 05:28.522\n那呢這樣的結果會變成是今年度的烤雞餅上明年才召開不釋服的人評會所以呢就等於說他今年一整年他還是可以繼續在軍中裡面那這就會讓我們的這個受害者覺得非常的恐懼尤其是他明明是同一個受害人跟同一個加害人那應該是同一個案子裡面的兩件事情那我想要問一下為什麼不是憑他一案兩大過\n\n05:31.691 --> 05:49.919\n呃委員好我是海軍參謀長嗯那這個案子我們也高度的關切我們也要特別保護這個當事人這個我們都做的因為這是一個呃性評會他是一個呃有獨立他有召開一個委員會那這些還有會考量的因素可能是有第一個因為他這個是沒有\n\n05:50.219 --> 06:04.197\n我問的是你們海軍做的決定嗎你不要先講那邊人家姓平慧已經有相關的這個說明了我問的是海軍你明明可以選擇一案兩大過直接太除為什麼你要把他分成兩個行為各一大過讓他再繼續在這個\n\n06:06.800 --> 06:10.103\n所以以後不同時間然後去騷擾只要不是同時的他都用這樣子來做嗎?\n\n06:30.181 --> 06:50.666\n實際上他慶平會他就是告訴你他程度是中國你可以各大過一次嘛那你一案兩大過是兩行為各一大過是你海軍的裁決嘛我再給部長看一下後續的喔不只這樣子而已喔這是二度的傷害來我們看下一張這個被害人提出申訴是在7月9號的時候我們剛剛有給大家看我們國軍的處理時間應該要在24小時之內隔離對方你們10月16號才把這個市都調到指揮部\n\n06:59.088 --> 07:14.283\n那就已經違反相關規定啦然後再來呢這個被調動人員的職務呢還是他的上級單位所以你們等到10月30號下午3點的時候才告訴這個被害人說要把他調動職務那我要問的問題喔為什麼你們是調動被害人的職務不是調動加害人的職務呢\n\n07:20.185 --> 07:23.569\n你調了加害人之後然後呢他還是他的上級然後後來你10月30號你調動了被害人的職務你們有沒有人去跟被害人講說要調他職務你們有沒有去跟他講過說想要做這件事情嗎\n\n07:38.886 --> 08:00.202\n如果不是今天後來我們來告訴你們說有這個事情很嚴重你們就是有人跟被害人講說我想要嘗試調動你的職務但導致了被害人覺得我是被害人為什麼我的職務要被調動那所以有了這樣子的一個澄清之後那才免除了這件事情那我的意思是說你不覺得中間有需要檢討的地方嗎\n\n08:01.124 --> 08:01.565\n一案兩大過或兩案一大過\n\n08:16.264 --> 08:40.953\n那主席讓我統整一下第二個問題在於違反24小時的規定第三個問題是你們裡面有人去找了這個被害人說想要嘗試調動他的職務這三件事情裡面顯然有違規的問題我想要問部長能不能將這件事情送政風做調查委員能不能回到您剛剛那個姓平慧的那一張裡面姓平慧的那一個部分他到底是建議什麼\n\n08:41.636 --> 08:50.263\n他建議就是他的程度是中度然後呢可以建議各大過一次所以他的建議也是各一大過\n\n08:51.443 --> 09:16.711\n但是你們這個後面所謂的各一大過你是把它做成這個兩個不同的行為各一大過那它會導致於說你明年才你會讓他待一整年而且他可以選擇他直接退伍他就跟這件事情完全沒有關係我跟委員報告就是說我的第一點就是說他們的最後跟他記過的方式到底跟信民會的決議是不是一致\n\n09:18.211 --> 09:35.182\n這一點因為剛剛看起來好像兩個是一致的這是第一點第二點因為對這個案子本身我想我下去我們會再仔細的了解一下這樣子再跟委員做報告那最後我們還有一個訴求就是說呢因為這個人他可以在案件尚未定案之前直接退伍\n\n09:36.362 --> 10:00.115\n所以我希望說我們在國軍人員性騷擾處理及性侵害預防實施規定裡面能夠增訂涉性平案件的申訴人在未定案之前不得退伍希望你們可以回去思考一下否則以這個案例來說這個人他立刻退伍之後這件事情就已經跟他沒有關係了那我想這個是非常對被害人非常不公平的情況那請部長來評估好不好謝謝因為時間不夠的關係我們就另外再談好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.096,"end":1.921,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請顧部長來部長請"},{"start":11.317,"end":32.265,"text":"社區委員好部長好其實首先先跟您談一下上一次在跟您在質詢的過程當中有提到這個勞動權益的部分那我在10月30號未還委員會上面有特別向勞動部長何部長請教就是國防部院內呢我們的這個規範約聘人員他如果在五一勞動節是上沒有是"},{"start":32.805,"end":58.278,"text":"上班的情況的話那沒有提供加班費那有沒有違反勞動基準法的一律那部長說呢可能是有的所以他有提到說會找您瞭解此事那保障約聘顧的權益所以我們也希望國防部在這個部分能夠盡快修正因為我想勞動部針對這部分講的應該是比較準確的就約聘顧他假設他選擇在5月1號他沒有他上班的話那"},{"start":58.638,"end":75.149,"text":"因為他是勞工所以他就應該要有勞工的權益那這個再麻煩我們國防部再去跟這個勞動部談一下具體的細節但不需要說明因為事後我們再談因為我們今天主要要談的議題不是這個主要今天部長我要跟您論的是說我們國軍人員在性騷擾處理跟性侵害預防規定裡面有什麼樣的一個保護措施"},{"start":84.667,"end":84.947,"text":"國防部主管"},{"start":99.667,"end":116.798,"text":"有特別的規定說單位在接受性騷擾申訴案件之後要在24小時之內完成以下措施包含立刻隔離當事人被申訴人應該要暫時調離單位到不同營區保護被害人不受到二度傷害這是我們的相關規定"},{"start":117.739,"end":134.249,"text":"但是呢我最近呢接到一個陳情是關於我們的女性的事關他們被這個性騷的情況我們有經過受害者的同意那提供給大家看一下他有兩個部分第一個是簡訊的騷擾簡訊的騷擾呢等一下我看一下圖他就說"},{"start":142.381,"end":159.091,"text":"他在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有那個圖嗎你要不要放一下那個圖反正呢他的在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有寫說不然吃掉你也行他就在講說吃午餐的部分"},{"start":159.651,"end":174.416,"text":"然後呢對方就不太想回答他然後他就說不是你親手做的那對方被害人說是我買的然後呢這個市都他就說也不是親口味然後對方就給了一個很尷尬的圖片這個很明顯的叫做簡訊的騷擾"},{"start":179.258,"end":180.099,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管"},{"start":194.295,"end":214.83,"text":"的那個老闆就是市都對你有意思之外整體生活過得不算差難怪死活都不給我親被害者說本來就不行市都說為什麼不行被害者說為什麼可以你哪一個身份可以市都說因為我喜歡你啊這個答案你滿意嗎市都說想不到原因了吧認命吧"},{"start":215.59,"end":222.035,"text":"那這個文字上面是很明顯的它有兩個部分一個是簡訊的騷擾一個是言語的騷擾兩個都是很明確的有性騷擾的問題那我們看一下國軍人員性騷案件的懲罰建議表"},{"start":231.161,"end":245.698,"text":"那這個部分呢言語偷拍、猥褻、簡訊騷擾、肢體騷擾跟言語肢體這個部分它都分成不同的違規態樣所以在以這個案件來說它其實已經違反了言語騷擾是一個然後簡訊騷擾是一個這個案子它應該是已經違反了兩種的態樣好那我們接下來看"},{"start":253.284,"end":274.32,"text":"這個呢受害者他經過了什麼他先提出了性騷擾的申訴那在言語騷擾跟簡訊騷擾的部分呢性評會都認為說這是兩個不同的事件他受到了言語騷擾以及簡訊騷擾都是事實那程度是屬於中度的那他們提的建議是性評會提的建議是要"},{"start":276.101,"end":298.928,"text":"各大過一次那我們海軍在處理這件事情的時候呢照理來說他是同一個案子因為是同一個被害人跟同一個加害人但是他就是一案兩大過會直接退太處那這種情況他是可以領退五金但是沒有退縫但我們的海軍的做法呢是把它分成兩個行為各給一大過"},{"start":301.149,"end":328.522,"text":"那呢這樣的結果會變成是今年度的烤雞餅上明年才召開不釋服的人評會所以呢就等於說他今年一整年他還是可以繼續在軍中裡面那這就會讓我們的這個受害者覺得非常的恐懼尤其是他明明是同一個受害人跟同一個加害人那應該是同一個案子裡面的兩件事情那我想要問一下為什麼不是憑他一案兩大過"},{"start":331.691,"end":349.919,"text":"呃委員好我是海軍參謀長嗯那這個案子我們也高度的關切我們也要特別保護這個當事人這個我們都做的因為這是一個呃性評會他是一個呃有獨立他有召開一個委員會那這些還有會考量的因素可能是有第一個因為他這個是沒有"},{"start":350.219,"end":364.197,"text":"我問的是你們海軍做的決定嗎你不要先講那邊人家姓平慧已經有相關的這個說明了我問的是海軍你明明可以選擇一案兩大過直接太除為什麼你要把他分成兩個行為各一大過讓他再繼續在這個"},{"start":366.8,"end":370.103,"text":"所以以後不同時間然後去騷擾只要不是同時的他都用這樣子來做嗎?"},{"start":390.181,"end":410.666,"text":"實際上他慶平會他就是告訴你他程度是中國你可以各大過一次嘛那你一案兩大過是兩行為各一大過是你海軍的裁決嘛我再給部長看一下後續的喔不只這樣子而已喔這是二度的傷害來我們看下一張這個被害人提出申訴是在7月9號的時候我們剛剛有給大家看我們國軍的處理時間應該要在24小時之內隔離對方你們10月16號才把這個市都調到指揮部"},{"start":419.088,"end":434.283,"text":"那就已經違反相關規定啦然後再來呢這個被調動人員的職務呢還是他的上級單位所以你們等到10月30號下午3點的時候才告訴這個被害人說要把他調動職務那我要問的問題喔為什麼你們是調動被害人的職務不是調動加害人的職務呢"},{"start":440.185,"end":443.569,"text":"你調了加害人之後然後呢他還是他的上級然後後來你10月30號你調動了被害人的職務你們有沒有人去跟被害人講說要調他職務你們有沒有去跟他講過說想要做這件事情嗎"},{"start":458.886,"end":480.202,"text":"如果不是今天後來我們來告訴你們說有這個事情很嚴重你們就是有人跟被害人講說我想要嘗試調動你的職務但導致了被害人覺得我是被害人為什麼我的職務要被調動那所以有了這樣子的一個澄清之後那才免除了這件事情那我的意思是說你不覺得中間有需要檢討的地方嗎"},{"start":481.124,"end":481.565,"text":"一案兩大過或兩案一大過"},{"start":496.264,"end":520.953,"text":"那主席讓我統整一下第二個問題在於違反24小時的規定第三個問題是你們裡面有人去找了這個被害人說想要嘗試調動他的職務這三件事情裡面顯然有違規的問題我想要問部長能不能將這件事情送政風做調查委員能不能回到您剛剛那個姓平慧的那一張裡面姓平慧的那一個部分他到底是建議什麼"},{"start":521.636,"end":530.263,"text":"他建議就是他的程度是中度然後呢可以建議各大過一次所以他的建議也是各一大過"},{"start":531.443,"end":556.711,"text":"但是你們這個後面所謂的各一大過你是把它做成這個兩個不同的行為各一大過那它會導致於說你明年才你會讓他待一整年而且他可以選擇他直接退伍他就跟這件事情完全沒有關係我跟委員報告就是說我的第一點就是說他們的最後跟他記過的方式到底跟信民會的決議是不是一致"},{"start":558.211,"end":575.182,"text":"這一點因為剛剛看起來好像兩個是一致的這是第一點第二點因為對這個案子本身我想我下去我們會再仔細的了解一下這樣子再跟委員做報告那最後我們還有一個訴求就是說呢因為這個人他可以在案件尚未定案之前直接退伍"},{"start":576.362,"end":600.115,"text":"所以我希望說我們在國軍人員性騷擾處理及性侵害預防實施規定裡面能夠增訂涉性平案件的申訴人在未定案之前不得退伍希望你們可以回去思考一下否則以這個案例來說這個人他立刻退伍之後這件事情就已經跟他沒有關係了那我想這個是非常對被害人非常不公平的情況那請部長來評估好不好謝謝因為時間不夠的關係我們就另外再談好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":497,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（11時18分）謝謝主席，我們有請顧部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：徐委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。首先先跟您談一下上一次跟您在質詢的過程當中有提到勞動權益。我在10月30號衛環委員會有特別向勞動部何部長請教，國防部部內規範約聘人員如果在五一勞動節是上班的情況的話，沒有提供加班費，那有沒有違反勞動基準法的疑慮。部長說可能是有的，他有提到會找您了解此事，保障約聘僱的權益。我們也希望國防部在這個部分能夠儘快修正，我想勞動部針對這部分講的應該是比較準確的，約聘僱假設選擇在5月1號上班的話，因為他是勞工，他就應該要有勞工的權益，這個再麻煩國防部去跟勞動部談一下具體的細節。待會不需要說明，事後我們再談，因為我今天主要要談的議題不是這個。","部長，今天我主要要跟您問的是，我們國軍人員在性騷擾處理跟性侵害預防規定裡面，有什麼樣的保護措施？"],["顧部長立雄：我們應該都有性侵害防治委員會等相關建置吧！是在各單位裡面。"],["徐委員巧芯：其實都有。那我們看一下，在這項規定第十四條裡面是這樣講的，因為國軍有特別規定，就是單位在接受性騷擾申訴案件之後，要在24小時之內完成以下措施，包含立刻隔離當事人，被申訴人應該暫時調離單位到不同營區，保護被害人不受到二度傷害，這是相關規定。但是我最近接到陳情，是關於女性士官被性騷的情況。我們經過受害者同意，提供給大家看一下。案情分為兩個部分，第一個部分是簡訊騷擾。在簡訊騷擾部分，請看一下圖，行為人在簡訊騷擾中寫到「不然吃掉你也行」，這是在講吃午餐，對方不太想回答。然後他說「不是你親手做的」，對方、也就是被害人說「是我買的」。這個士督又說「也不是親口餵」，對方就給了一個很尷尬的圖片。這很明顯的叫做簡訊騷擾！另外，他還有言語的騷擾，就是兩人獨處的時候，這是有錄音存證的，士督說「你都只給我抱，不給我親」，然後「都不放點小福利給我，令人難過，除了老闆」──就是士督「對你有意思之外，整體生活過得不算差，難怪死活都不給我親」。被害者說「本來就不行」，士督說「為什麼不行？」，被害者又說「為什麼可以？你哪一個身分可以？」士督說「因為我喜歡你啊！這個答案你滿意嗎？」士督還說「想不到原因了吧！認命吧！」這段文字很明顯地涉及兩個部分，一是簡訊的騷擾，一是言語的騷擾，兩者都很明確地有性騷擾的問題。我們看一下國軍人員性騷案件的懲罰建議表，將言語騷擾、偷拍、猥褻、簡訊騷擾、肢體騷擾跟言語及肢體騷擾分成不同的違規態樣，以這個案件來說，其實已經違反：言語騷擾是一個，然後簡訊騷擾是一個，也就是這個案子應該已經違反了兩種態樣。","接下來看這個受害者經過了什麼。她先提出性騷擾的申訴，在言語騷擾及簡訊騷擾的部分，性平會都認為是兩個不同的事件，她受到言語騷擾以及簡訊騷擾都是事實，程度屬於中度，至於性平會提的建議是各記大過一次。而海軍在處理這件事情的時候，照理來說應該是同一件案子，因為是同一個被害人跟同一個加害人，所以就是一案、兩大過，會直接汰除，在這種情況下，加害人可以領退伍金、沒有退俸。但海軍的做法是分成兩個行為、各給一大過，這樣的結果會變成今年度考績丙上，明年才召開不適服人評會，等於他今年一整年還是可以繼續在軍中，這就會讓受害者覺得非常恐懼。尤其明明是同一個受害人跟同一個加害人，應該是同一件案子裡的兩件事情，我想問為什麼不是評他一案兩大過？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：委員好，我是海軍參謀長。對於這個案子，我們也高度關切，同時要特別保護當事人，這些我們都做了。性平會有獨立召開委員會，第一個會考量的因素可能是因為這是從……"],["徐委員巧芯：不，我問的是你們海軍做的決定嘛！你不要先講那邊，人家性平會已經有相關說明了。我問的是海軍明明可以選擇一案兩大過、直接汰除，為什麼要分成兩個行為、各記一大過，讓他繼續在軍隊裡面嘛？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是，了解。報告委員，它是獨立的評議會，而評議會考量到以前沒有這樣的判例。至於分開處理，是因為他在不同時間做這兩件事情，所以就整個法律單一……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以只要在不同時間騷擾、只要不是同時，都會用這樣的原則來做嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：因為事實是這樣，我們只能按照這個讓評議會處理。目前……"],["徐委員巧芯：但實際上性平會就告訴你程度是中度，可以各記大過一次嘛！而一案兩大過或是兩行為各一大過是海軍的裁決嘛！","我再給部長看一下後續情況，不只這樣而已喔！這是二度傷害。被害人提出申訴是在7月9日，我剛剛也給大家看國軍的處理時間，應該在24小時之內隔離對方，但你們10月16日才把這個士督調到指揮部，那就已經違反相關規定啦！再來，這個被調動人員的職務還是她的上級單位，而你們等到10月30日下午3點才告訴被害人要將她調動職務。那我要問一個問題，為什麼你們是調動被害人的職務，不是調動加害人的職務呢？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，我們是調動加害人的職務，對於被害人沒有要調動。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們調動加害人的職務之後，他還是在她的上級單位；然後，你們在10月30日調動了被害人的職務。你們有沒有人跟被害人講要調動她的職務？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：我們沒有要調動被害人，那個程序……"],["徐委員巧芯：你們有沒有去跟她講過想要做這件事情嘛？如果不是我們事後、今天來告訴你們有這件事情、很嚴重，你們就是有人跟被害人講「我想嘗試調動你的職務」，導致被害人覺得「我是被害人，為什麼我的職務要被調動？」，所以在有了這樣的陳情，之後才免除了這件事情。我的意思是說，你不覺得其中有需要檢討的地方嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，實際上對於保護當事人有些不夠周延的地方，我們會檢討。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。那你可以看到，第一個問題在於我剛剛講的一案兩大過或是兩案各一大過這個部分。第二個問題……主席，讓我統整一下。第二個問題在於違反24小時的規定。第三個問題是你們內部有人去找了這個被害人，說想嘗試調動她的職務。這三件事情裡面顯然有違規的問題，我想問部長，能不能將這件事情送政風作調查？"],["顧部長立雄：委員，能不能回到您剛剛提到性平會那張投影片？性平會那個部分到底建議什麼？"],["徐委員巧芯：它建議的是程度屬於中度，並建議各大過一次。"],["顧部長立雄：所以它的建議也是各一大過啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：但是你們後面所謂的各一大過是作成兩個不同行為各一大過，會導致你們會讓他待一整年，而且他可以選擇直接退伍，就跟這件事情完全沒有關係。"],["顧部長立雄：我跟委員報告，第一，關於他們最後將他記過的方式到底跟性平會的決議是不是一致這一點，剛剛看起來兩者好像是一致的，這是第一點。第二點，針對這件案子本身，我下去以後會仔細地了解一下，再跟委員報告。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。","最後我還有一個訴求。因為這個人可以在案件尚未定案之前直接退伍，所以我希望在國軍人員性騷處理及性侵害預防實施規定裡面，增訂受性平案件申訴人在未定案之前不得退伍，希望你們可以回去思考一下。否則以這個案例來說，這個人只要立刻退伍之後，這件事就已經跟他沒有關係了，我想，這對於被害人來說是非常不公平的情況，請部長評估好不好？謝謝。因為時間不夠的關係，我們就另外再談。"],["顧部長立雄：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員，各位請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是洪申翰委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}}