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00:00:40,394\n謝謝主席,我們有請部長。請陳部長。好,部長我想先請教一個問題喔。因為剛剛我看到那個綠烈溪大局嘛齁。我想問一下,在綠烈溪我們到底它算是野生動物呢還是算是動保法管轄的?應該是外來種吧。外來種。入侵種,應該叫入侵種。入侵種,那它算是野保法還是動保法來管啊?\n\n2\n00:00:41,472 --> 00:00:53,197\n應該是野保法?就是我們,你們可不可以回答一下吧?我們已經依照那個野保法31條公告為那個外來入侵種,所以現在在處理。\n\n3\n00:00:55,137 --> 00:01:14,429\n根據野保法根據野保法他是野保法我覺得這個野保法今天雖然是要討論動保法但我想野保法跟動保法的界限我之前的質詢一直是非常不清楚的所以因為待會我會分享一個案例因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼是用動保法來處置\n\n4\n00:01:16,090 --> 00:01:32,085\n所以我們剛剛確定了綠列型在野保法那梅花鹿也在野保法嗎?對不對?他們造成的農損梅花鹿不一樣,梅花鹿是被界定為家畜所以它不是動保法也不是野保法\n\n5\n00:01:33,267 --> 00:01:37,493\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正\n\n6\n00:01:50,751 --> 00:02:18,249\n就是說我們現在呢造成農損的因為其實之前也有一些新聞嘛就是有遊蕩犬貓造成了非常大量的農損就是雞被吃光了然後或者是說有人受傷害了人在這個過程之中車禍因為遊蕩犬他為了閃接遊蕩犬貓就他車禍了那我想問一下就是說上次我其實跟部長在討論說部長有說在生態樂區首先我們先來處理生態樂區是禁止餵養的\n\n7\n00:02:19,150 --> 00:02:21,391\n規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃\n\n8\n00:02:29,690 --> 00:02:51,294\n但是他有說因為樂區並不是法律用詞所以針對餵食的行為如果導致環境污染地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開發至於保護區則有相關法規依據可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食這是他的回應那我想要了解我們目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實呢\n\n9\n00:02:54,415 --> 00:03:11,997\n我跟委員報告的確我們在處理這些流浪犬的部分還有跟野生動物之間的關係禁止維養是事主的重要責任那一旦禁止一定要有法有法可罰啦但是現在是因為在熱區我們找不到法\n\n10\n00:03:12,458 --> 00:03:12,838\n條文修正草案\n\n11\n00:03:31,238 --> 00:03:48,747\n那這個部分我想我們應該可以立即來處理我我跟應該跟黃委員講大概幾個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內嗎那也麻煩提到我們好我再提供給委員因為我想因為剛剛有講四組責任這件事情就是說因為其實已經有一些判例啦有一些判例是說\n\n12\n00:03:50,007 --> 00:04:04,521\n他可能是養在外面他就是把他養在馬路上面就造成了這個有人車禍死亡等等的這個判例就歸罪說就歸因回說這個其實是有人飼養的\n\n13\n00:04:05,982 --> 00:04:08,585\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容\n\n14\n00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:50,990\n我們可不可以來做這件事情呢?對,我想非常謝謝委員的提醒就是我們收集了一些在判例的部分針對你如果沒有做好你的事主的責任的時候你還是會觸犯了相關的法律包括餵養的部分這個部分我想我們收集案例以後去宣導可能更有效果但是其實現在已經有一些判例了啦那我自己覺得說因為其實不管是檢察院的報告也好媒體的報導也好因為它的確造成了\n\n15\n00:04:51,670 --> 00:04:56,072\n本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃\n\n16\n00:05:16,201 --> 00:05:36,031\n還是非常重要必須要做進一步的去宣導好嗎還有這些法是不是也可以把它扣回去在修法的部分那再來就是說我在這次的修法上面也有看到就是有提到有些委員有提這個山豬釣的版本那我不曉得說農業部的立場是怎麼樣因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬釣的\n\n17\n00:05:37,392 --> 00:05:39,573\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案\n\n18\n00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,201\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容\n\n19\n00:06:14,154 --> 00:06:19,476\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案\n\n20\n00:06:44,036 --> 00:06:45,183\n及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。\n\n21\n00:06:47,878 --> 00:07:07,185\n就是回到我剛剛講的我覺得很奇妙的問題一個奇妙的狀態就11月初彰化發生民眾闖入佛寺並且驅趕了室內的數百隻台灣葉比蝙蝠導致數十隻的蝙蝠掉落死亡最後是以動保法開罰動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五預計要開罰那這就顯示說動保法跟野保法之間還是會有一些問題到底哪些因為現在\n\n22\n00:07:16,048 --> 00:07:42,757\n兩部法規寵物、經濟動物、實驗動物保育類、野生動物都有一些相關的法則來避免不當的侵擾但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候他無法可管耶最後我們就變成用動保法來管我跟委員報告這個新聞可能後面的處罰可能還有一些疑義因為要用動保法的話就是一定是要人為飼養的\n\n23\n00:07:44,338 --> 00:07:47,560\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程\n\n24\n00:08:06,388 --> 00:08:08,790\n規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規\n\n25\n00:08:24,117 --> 00:08:41,022\n的一些競合的部分我們會更清楚的釐清因為野保法已經進到立法院了動保法可能在12月就進來我希望說在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清所以我們會盡快的去處理這個我最後爭取一件事情因為在動保法修法的時候我們是不是可以有一些野生動物團、野保法的團體\n\n26\n00:08:42,082 --> 00:08:51,192\n一起來做一些討論呢?因為這樣子才可以知道說我改來這個到野保法可能會影響到哪些部分才能夠確保一體性﹖好謝謝不好意思張委員這個可以嗎?我知道我知道我是說我們是不是可以一起來討論?好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11159\t40394\t謝謝主席,我們有請部長。請陳部長。好,部長我想先請教一個問題喔。因為剛剛我看到那個綠烈溪大局嘛齁。我想問一下,在綠烈溪我們到底它算是野生動物呢還是算是動保法管轄的?應該是外來種吧。外來種。入侵種,應該叫入侵種。入侵種,那它算是野保法還是動保法來管啊?\n41472\t53197\t應該是野保法?就是我們,你們可不可以回答一下吧?我們已經依照那個野保法31條公告為那個外來入侵種,所以現在在處理。\n55137\t74429\t根據野保法根據野保法他是野保法我覺得這個野保法今天雖然是要討論動保法但我想野保法跟動保法的界限我之前的質詢一直是非常不清楚的所以因為待會我會分享一個案例因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼是用動保法來處置\n76090\t92085\t所以我們剛剛確定了綠列型在野保法那梅花鹿也在野保法嗎?對不對?他們造成的農損梅花鹿不一樣,梅花鹿是被界定為家畜所以它不是動保法也不是野保法\n93267\t97493\t條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正\n110751\t138249\t就是說我們現在呢造成農損的因為其實之前也有一些新聞嘛就是有遊蕩犬貓造成了非常大量的農損就是雞被吃光了然後或者是說有人受傷害了人在這個過程之中車禍因為遊蕩犬他為了閃接遊蕩犬貓就他車禍了那我想問一下就是說上次我其實跟部長在討論說部長有說在生態樂區首先我們先來處理生態樂區是禁止餵養的\n139150\t141391\t規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃\n149690\t171294\t但是他有說因為樂區並不是法律用詞所以針對餵食的行為如果導致環境污染地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開發至於保護區則有相關法規依據可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食這是他的回應那我想要了解我們目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實呢\n174415\t191997\t我跟委員報告的確我們在處理這些流浪犬的部分還有跟野生動物之間的關係禁止維養是事主的重要責任那一旦禁止一定要有法有法可罰啦但是現在是因為在熱區我們找不到法\n192458\t192838\t條文修正草案\n211238\t228747\t那這個部分我想我們應該可以立即來處理我我跟應該跟黃委員講大概幾個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內嗎那也麻煩提到我們好我再提供給委員因為我想因為剛剛有講四組責任這件事情就是說因為其實已經有一些判例啦有一些判例是說\n230007\t244521\t他可能是養在外面他就是把他養在馬路上面就造成了這個有人車禍死亡等等的這個判例就歸罪說就歸因回說這個其實是有人飼養的\n245982\t248585\t條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容\n265320\t290990\t我們可不可以來做這件事情呢?對,我想非常謝謝委員的提醒就是我們收集了一些在判例的部分針對你如果沒有做好你的事主的責任的時候你還是會觸犯了相關的法律包括餵養的部分這個部分我想我們收集案例以後去宣導可能更有效果但是其實現在已經有一些判例了啦那我自己覺得說因為其實不管是檢察院的報告也好媒體的報導也好因為它的確造成了\n291670\t296072\t本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃\n316201\t336031\t還是非常重要必須要做進一步的去宣導好嗎還有這些法是不是也可以把它扣回去在修法的部分那再來就是說我在這次的修法上面也有看到就是有提到有些委員有提這個山豬釣的版本那我不曉得說農業部的立場是怎麼樣因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬釣的\n337392\t339573\t部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案\n353200\t355201\t條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容\n374154\t379476\t部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案\n404036\t405183\t及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。\n407878\t427185\t就是回到我剛剛講的我覺得很奇妙的問題一個奇妙的狀態就11月初彰化發生民眾闖入佛寺並且驅趕了室內的數百隻台灣葉比蝙蝠導致數十隻的蝙蝠掉落死亡最後是以動保法開罰動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五預計要開罰那這就顯示說動保法跟野保法之間還是會有一些問題到底哪些因為現在\n436048\t462757\t兩部法規寵物、經濟動物、實驗動物保育類、野生動物都有一些相關的法則來避免不當的侵擾但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候他無法可管耶最後我們就變成用動保法來管我跟委員報告這個新聞可能後面的處罰可能還有一些疑義因為要用動保法的話就是一定是要人為飼養的\n464338\t467560\t部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程\n486388\t488790\t規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規\n504117\t521022\t的一些競合的部分我們會更清楚的釐清因為野保法已經進到立法院了動保法可能在12月就進來我希望說在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清所以我們會盡快的去處理這個我最後爭取一件事情因為在動保法修法的時候我們是不是可以有一些野生動物團、野保法的團體\n522082\t531192\t一起來做一些討論呢?因為這樣子才可以知道說我改來這個到野保法可能會影響到哪些部分才能夠確保一體性﹖好謝謝不好意思張委員這個可以嗎?我知道我知道我是說我們是不是可以一起來討論?好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們有請部長。請陳部長。好,部長我想先請教一個問題喔。因為剛剛我看到那個綠烈溪大局嘛齁。我想問一下,在綠烈溪我們到底它算是野生動物呢還是算是動保法管轄的?應該是外來種吧。外來種。入侵種,應該叫入侵種。入侵種,那它算是野保法還是動保法來管啊?\n應該是野保法?就是我們,你們可不可以回答一下吧?我們已經依照那個野保法31條公告為那個外來入侵種,所以現在在處理。\n根據野保法根據野保法他是野保法我覺得這個野保法今天雖然是要討論動保法但我想野保法跟動保法的界限我之前的質詢一直是非常不清楚的所以因為待會我會分享一個案例因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼是用動保法來處置\n所以我們剛剛確定了綠列型在野保法那梅花鹿也在野保法嗎?對不對?他們造成的農損梅花鹿不一樣,梅花鹿是被界定為家畜所以它不是動保法也不是野保法\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正\n就是說我們現在呢造成農損的因為其實之前也有一些新聞嘛就是有遊蕩犬貓造成了非常大量的農損就是雞被吃光了然後或者是說有人受傷害了人在這個過程之中車禍因為遊蕩犬他為了閃接遊蕩犬貓就他車禍了那我想問一下就是說上次我其實跟部長在討論說部長有說在生態樂區首先我們先來處理生態樂區是禁止餵養的\n規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃\n但是他有說因為樂區並不是法律用詞所以針對餵食的行為如果導致環境污染地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開發至於保護區則有相關法規依據可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食這是他的回應那我想要了解我們目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實呢\n我跟委員報告的確我們在處理這些流浪犬的部分還有跟野生動物之間的關係禁止維養是事主的重要責任那一旦禁止一定要有法有法可罰啦但是現在是因為在熱區我們找不到法\n條文修正草案\n那這個部分我想我們應該可以立即來處理我我跟應該跟黃委員講大概幾個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內嗎那也麻煩提到我們好我再提供給委員因為我想因為剛剛有講四組責任這件事情就是說因為其實已經有一些判例啦有一些判例是說\n他可能是養在外面他就是把他養在馬路上面就造成了這個有人車禍死亡等等的這個判例就歸罪說就歸因回說這個其實是有人飼養的\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容\n我們可不可以來做這件事情呢?對,我想非常謝謝委員的提醒就是我們收集了一些在判例的部分針對你如果沒有做好你的事主的責任的時候你還是會觸犯了相關的法律包括餵養的部分這個部分我想我們收集案例以後去宣導可能更有效果但是其實現在已經有一些判例了啦那我自己覺得說因為其實不管是檢察院的報告也好媒體的報導也好因為它的確造成了\n本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃\n還是非常重要必須要做進一步的去宣導好嗎還有這些法是不是也可以把它扣回去在修法的部分那再來就是說我在這次的修法上面也有看到就是有提到有些委員有提這個山豬釣的版本那我不曉得說農業部的立場是怎麼樣因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬釣的\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案\n及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。\n就是回到我剛剛講的我覺得很奇妙的問題一個奇妙的狀態就11月初彰化發生民眾闖入佛寺並且驅趕了室內的數百隻台灣葉比蝙蝠導致數十隻的蝙蝠掉落死亡最後是以動保法開罰動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五預計要開罰那這就顯示說動保法跟野保法之間還是會有一些問題到底哪些因為現在\n兩部法規寵物、經濟動物、實驗動物保育類、野生動物都有一些相關的法則來避免不當的侵擾但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候他無法可管耶最後我們就變成用動保法來管我跟委員報告這個新聞可能後面的處罰可能還有一些疑義因為要用動保法的話就是一定是要人為飼養的\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程\n規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規\n的一些競合的部分我們會更清楚的釐清因為野保法已經進到立法院了動保法可能在12月就進來我希望說在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清所以我們會盡快的去處理這個我最後爭取一件事情因為在動保法修法的時候我們是不是可以有一些野生動物團、野保法的團體\n一起來做一些討論呢?因為這樣子才可以知道說我改來這個到野保法可能會影響到哪些部分才能夠確保一體性﹖好謝謝不好意思張委員這個可以嗎?我知道我知道我是說我們是不是可以一起來討論?好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.159 --> 00:40.394\n謝謝主席,我們有請部長。請陳部長。好,部長我想先請教一個問題喔。因為剛剛我看到那個綠烈溪大局嘛齁。我想問一下,在綠烈溪我們到底它算是野生動物呢還是算是動保法管轄的?應該是外來種吧。外來種。入侵種,應該叫入侵種。入侵種,那它算是野保法還是動保法來管啊?\n\n00:41.472 --> 00:53.197\n應該是野保法?就是我們,你們可不可以回答一下吧?我們已經依照那個野保法31條公告為那個外來入侵種,所以現在在處理。\n\n00:55.137 --> 01:14.429\n根據野保法根據野保法他是野保法我覺得這個野保法今天雖然是要討論動保法但我想野保法跟動保法的界限我之前的質詢一直是非常不清楚的所以因為待會我會分享一個案例因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼是用動保法來處置\n\n01:16.090 --> 01:32.085\n所以我們剛剛確定了綠列型在野保法那梅花鹿也在野保法嗎?對不對?他們造成的農損梅花鹿不一樣,梅花鹿是被界定為家畜所以它不是動保法也不是野保法\n\n01:33.267 --> 01:37.493\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正\n\n01:50.751 --> 02:18.249\n就是說我們現在呢造成農損的因為其實之前也有一些新聞嘛就是有遊蕩犬貓造成了非常大量的農損就是雞被吃光了然後或者是說有人受傷害了人在這個過程之中車禍因為遊蕩犬他為了閃接遊蕩犬貓就他車禍了那我想問一下就是說上次我其實跟部長在討論說部長有說在生態樂區首先我們先來處理生態樂區是禁止餵養的\n\n02:19.150 --> 02:21.391\n規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃\n\n02:29.690 --> 02:51.294\n但是他有說因為樂區並不是法律用詞所以針對餵食的行為如果導致環境污染地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開發至於保護區則有相關法規依據可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食這是他的回應那我想要了解我們目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實呢\n\n02:54.415 --> 03:11.997\n我跟委員報告的確我們在處理這些流浪犬的部分還有跟野生動物之間的關係禁止維養是事主的重要責任那一旦禁止一定要有法有法可罰啦但是現在是因為在熱區我們找不到法\n\n03:12.458 --> 03:12.838\n條文修正草案\n\n03:31.238 --> 03:48.747\n那這個部分我想我們應該可以立即來處理我我跟應該跟黃委員講大概幾個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內嗎那也麻煩提到我們好我再提供給委員因為我想因為剛剛有講四組責任這件事情就是說因為其實已經有一些判例啦有一些判例是說\n\n03:50.007 --> 04:04.521\n他可能是養在外面他就是把他養在馬路上面就造成了這個有人車禍死亡等等的這個判例就歸罪說就歸因回說這個其實是有人飼養的\n\n04:05.982 --> 04:08.585\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容\n\n04:25.320 --> 04:50.990\n我們可不可以來做這件事情呢?對,我想非常謝謝委員的提醒就是我們收集了一些在判例的部分針對你如果沒有做好你的事主的責任的時候你還是會觸犯了相關的法律包括餵養的部分這個部分我想我們收集案例以後去宣導可能更有效果但是其實現在已經有一些判例了啦那我自己覺得說因為其實不管是檢察院的報告也好媒體的報導也好因為它的確造成了\n\n04:51.670 --> 04:56.072\n本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃\n\n05:16.201 --> 05:36.031\n還是非常重要必須要做進一步的去宣導好嗎還有這些法是不是也可以把它扣回去在修法的部分那再來就是說我在這次的修法上面也有看到就是有提到有些委員有提這個山豬釣的版本那我不曉得說農業部的立場是怎麼樣因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬釣的\n\n05:37.392 --> 05:39.573\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案\n\n05:53.200 --> 05:55.201\n條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容\n\n06:14.154 --> 06:19.476\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案\n\n06:44.036 --> 06:45.183\n及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。\n\n06:47.878 --> 07:07.185\n就是回到我剛剛講的我覺得很奇妙的問題一個奇妙的狀態就11月初彰化發生民眾闖入佛寺並且驅趕了室內的數百隻台灣葉比蝙蝠導致數十隻的蝙蝠掉落死亡最後是以動保法開罰動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五預計要開罰那這就顯示說動保法跟野保法之間還是會有一些問題到底哪些因為現在\n\n07:16.048 --> 07:42.757\n兩部法規寵物、經濟動物、實驗動物保育類、野生動物都有一些相關的法則來避免不當的侵擾但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候他無法可管耶最後我們就變成用動保法來管我跟委員報告這個新聞可能後面的處罰可能還有一些疑義因為要用動保法的話就是一定是要人為飼養的\n\n07:44.338 --> 07:47.560\n部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程\n\n08:06.388 --> 08:08.790\n規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規\n\n08:24.117 --> 08:41.022\n的一些競合的部分我們會更清楚的釐清因為野保法已經進到立法院了動保法可能在12月就進來我希望說在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清所以我們會盡快的去處理這個我最後爭取一件事情因為在動保法修法的時候我們是不是可以有一些野生動物團、野保法的團體\n\n08:42.082 --> 08:51.192\n一起來做一些討論呢?因為這樣子才可以知道說我改來這個到野保法可能會影響到哪些部分才能夠確保一體性﹖好謝謝不好意思張委員這個可以嗎?我知道我知道我是說我們是不是可以一起來討論?好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.159,"end":40.394,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請部長。請陳部長。好,部長我想先請教一個問題喔。因為剛剛我看到那個綠烈溪大局嘛齁。我想問一下,在綠烈溪我們到底它算是野生動物呢還是算是動保法管轄的?應該是外來種吧。外來種。入侵種,應該叫入侵種。入侵種,那它算是野保法還是動保法來管啊?"},{"start":41.472,"end":53.197,"text":"應該是野保法?就是我們,你們可不可以回答一下吧?我們已經依照那個野保法31條公告為那個外來入侵種,所以現在在處理。"},{"start":55.137,"end":74.429,"text":"根據野保法根據野保法他是野保法我覺得這個野保法今天雖然是要討論動保法但我想野保法跟動保法的界限我之前的質詢一直是非常不清楚的所以因為待會我會分享一個案例因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼是用動保法來處置"},{"start":76.09,"end":92.085,"text":"所以我們剛剛確定了綠列型在野保法那梅花鹿也在野保法嗎?對不對?他們造成的農損梅花鹿不一樣,梅花鹿是被界定為家畜所以它不是動保法也不是野保法"},{"start":93.267,"end":97.493,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正"},{"start":110.751,"end":138.249,"text":"就是說我們現在呢造成農損的因為其實之前也有一些新聞嘛就是有遊蕩犬貓造成了非常大量的農損就是雞被吃光了然後或者是說有人受傷害了人在這個過程之中車禍因為遊蕩犬他為了閃接遊蕩犬貓就他車禍了那我想問一下就是說上次我其實跟部長在討論說部長有說在生態樂區首先我們先來處理生態樂區是禁止餵養的"},{"start":139.15,"end":141.391,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":149.69,"end":171.294,"text":"但是他有說因為樂區並不是法律用詞所以針對餵食的行為如果導致環境污染地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開發至於保護區則有相關法規依據可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食這是他的回應那我想要了解我們目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實呢"},{"start":174.415,"end":191.997,"text":"我跟委員報告的確我們在處理這些流浪犬的部分還有跟野生動物之間的關係禁止維養是事主的重要責任那一旦禁止一定要有法有法可罰啦但是現在是因為在熱區我們找不到法"},{"start":192.458,"end":192.838,"text":"條文修正草案"},{"start":211.238,"end":228.747,"text":"那這個部分我想我們應該可以立即來處理我我跟應該跟黃委員講大概幾個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內嗎那也麻煩提到我們好我再提供給委員因為我想因為剛剛有講四組責任這件事情就是說因為其實已經有一些判例啦有一些判例是說"},{"start":230.007,"end":244.521,"text":"他可能是養在外面他就是把他養在馬路上面就造成了這個有人車禍死亡等等的這個判例就歸罪說就歸因回說這個其實是有人飼養的"},{"start":245.982,"end":248.585,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":265.32,"end":290.99,"text":"我們可不可以來做這件事情呢?對,我想非常謝謝委員的提醒就是我們收集了一些在判例的部分針對你如果沒有做好你的事主的責任的時候你還是會觸犯了相關的法律包括餵養的部分這個部分我想我們收集案例以後去宣導可能更有效果但是其實現在已經有一些判例了啦那我自己覺得說因為其實不管是檢察院的報告也好媒體的報導也好因為它的確造成了"},{"start":291.67,"end":296.072,"text":"本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":316.201,"end":336.031,"text":"還是非常重要必須要做進一步的去宣導好嗎還有這些法是不是也可以把它扣回去在修法的部分那再來就是說我在這次的修法上面也有看到就是有提到有些委員有提這個山豬釣的版本那我不曉得說農業部的立場是怎麼樣因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬釣的"},{"start":337.392,"end":339.573,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":353.2,"end":355.201,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":374.154,"end":379.476,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案"},{"start":404.036,"end":405.183,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":407.878,"end":427.185,"text":"就是回到我剛剛講的我覺得很奇妙的問題一個奇妙的狀態就11月初彰化發生民眾闖入佛寺並且驅趕了室內的數百隻台灣葉比蝙蝠導致數十隻的蝙蝠掉落死亡最後是以動保法開罰動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五預計要開罰那這就顯示說動保法跟野保法之間還是會有一些問題到底哪些因為現在"},{"start":436.048,"end":462.757,"text":"兩部法規寵物、經濟動物、實驗動物保育類、野生動物都有一些相關的法則來避免不當的侵擾但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候他無法可管耶最後我們就變成用動保法來管我跟委員報告這個新聞可能後面的處罰可能還有一些疑義因為要用動保法的話就是一定是要人為飼養的"},{"start":464.338,"end":467.56,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":486.388,"end":488.79,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":504.117,"end":521.022,"text":"的一些競合的部分我們會更清楚的釐清因為野保法已經進到立法院了動保法可能在12月就進來我希望說在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清所以我們會盡快的去處理這個我最後爭取一件事情因為在動保法修法的時候我們是不是可以有一些野生動物團、野保法的團體"},{"start":522.082,"end":531.192,"text":"一起來做一些討論呢?因為這樣子才可以知道說我改來這個到野保法可能會影響到哪些部分才能夠確保一體性﹖好謝謝不好意思張委員這個可以嗎?我知道我知道我是說我們是不是可以一起來討論?好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1076,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（12時46分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長好，我想先請教一個問題，剛剛看到綠鬣蜥大軍，牠算是野生動物呢？還是算動保法管轄的範圍？"],["陳部長駿季：應該是外來種，應該叫入侵種。"],["張委員雅琳：牠是野保法還是動保法來管？"],["陳部長駿季：應該是野保法。"],["林副署長澔貞：我們已經依照野保法第三十一條公告為外來入侵種，現在在處理。"],["張委員雅琳：根據野保法。雖然今天是討論動保法，但是我想野保法和動保法的界線一直是非常不清楚的，我待會會分享一個案例，因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼用動保法來處置。我們剛才確認了綠鬣蜥在野保法，梅花鹿也在野保法，對不對？牠們造成的農損……"],["陳部長駿季：梅花鹿不一樣，梅花鹿被界定為家畜，所以牠不是動保法，也不是野保法。"],["張委員雅琳：我想確定一下，綠鬣蜥在野保法裡面，牠造成農損之後，我們其實有做一些移除的動作，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["張委員雅琳：因為我們不希望牠繁殖得非常多，侵害原生種和農民的權益。請教一下，因為之前有一些新聞，流浪犬貓造成非常大量的農損，雞被吃光了，或者有人受傷害了，人在這個過程中車禍，因為為了閃避遊蕩犬貓而車禍。上次我跟部長討論時，部長有說先來處理生態熱區禁止餵養，其實在11月10日「為野生動物而走」聯盟也有這樣的訴求，動保司陳中興副司長在受訪的時候也說我們禁止，但是他說因為熱區並非法律用詞，所以針對餵養、餵食的行為如果導致環境污染，地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開罰，至於保護區則有相關法規依據，可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食。這是他的回應，我想瞭解目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們在處理流浪犬和野生動物之間的關係，禁止餵養是飼主重要的責任，一旦禁止，一定要有法可罰，但是現在熱區的部分找不到法，剛才洪申翰委員也特別提到我們有框定自然保護區，有明確的區域時，我們就可以訂那個法，所以對於禁止餵養的部分，會先從自然保護區的部分去處理。"],["張委員雅琳：進度呢？"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分應該可以立即來處理，1個月之內就會提供相關的資料。"],["張委員雅琳：也麻煩提供給我們辦公室。"],["陳部長駿季：好，我們再提供給委員。"],["張委員雅琳：剛剛有講到飼主責任這件事，因為其實有一些判例，他可能養在外面，就是把牠養在馬路上面，造成有人車禍死亡等等，判例就會歸因於這是有人飼養的，雖然牠是放養，但還是有養，飼主責任的部分我覺得還是非常重要，所以是不是可以依據相關的判例來做一些宣導，讓大家知道如果你今天餵食，當發生人狗衝突的時候，其實在法律上你還是有相關的責任。我們可不可以來做這件事情？"],["陳部長駿季：非常謝謝委員的提醒，我們蒐集一些判例，針對沒有做好飼主責任的時候，還是會觸犯相關的法律，包括餵養的部分，這部分我們蒐集案例以後去宣導，可能更有效果。"],["張委員雅琳：現在其實已經有一些判例了，不管是監察院的報告也好，媒體的報導也好，因為的確造成了人的受傷，甚至死亡，甚至剛才講的綠鬣蜥大軍，小孩看了很可怕，遊蕩犬大軍對小孩來講也是很可怕，所以我們是不是應該要讓大家瞭解，在現在的時代，對於動物不是只要養牠而不照顧牠，牠的生活、牠的健康都不管，我們應該還是要好好去照顧牠的健康，我覺得飼主責任的教育還是非常重要，必須要做進一步的宣導，好嗎？還有這些法是不是也可以扣回去，就是在修法的部分？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["張委員雅琳：再者，我在這次的修法也有看到有些委員提到山豬吊的版本，農業部的立場是怎樣？因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬吊的。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我剛才說了動保法和野保法有連動，在野保法部分，因為還有一些原住民文化狩獵的需求，我們尊重，同時，我們也提到山豬吊危險是因為它的索徑太細，所以我們有一些改良式的套索，那時候我也在委員會承諾修法通過以後，一年之內，我們把改良式的……"],["張委員雅琳：其實我瞭解，我知道林業署有做一些改良式的山豬吊來滿足原住民的狩獵行為，也可以保護到一些誤觸的野生動物或遊蕩犬，但我的意思是說現在動保法裡面有放這個版本，我們是不是可以考量跟野保法……"],["陳部長駿季：對，一併處理。"],["張委員雅琳：因為實務上面要怎麼運作會有問題存在，所以我只是想了解部長的看法是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：動保法和野保法未來會有一致性，不會動保法禁止，而野保法不禁止，我們會有一致性。"],["張委員雅琳：這到底要怎麼判？這是實務上面的問題。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會傾向於還是一樣用公告的方式，不在這邊直接明禁，給予它一段的時間去處理。"],["張委員雅琳：最後一個問題，回到我剛剛講的我覺得很奇妙的狀態，10月初彰化發生民眾衝入佛寺並且驅趕了寺內的數百隻臺灣葉鼻蝙蝠，導致數十隻蝙蝠掉落死亡，最後是預計以動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五，這顯示動保法和野保法之間會有一些問題，因為兩部法規在寵物、經濟動物、實驗動物、保育類野生動物都有一些相關的罰則來避免不當的侵擾，但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候，它無法可管，最後變成用動保法來管。"],["陳部長駿季：這個新聞後面的處罰可能還有些疑義，因為要用動保法的話，一定要是人為飼養的才會適用動保法，這個新聞講用動保法裁罰，我們覺得有點疑義。"],["張委員雅琳：這就是個問題，在野保法和動保法的確還有些東西要再釐清，我知道有在討論，但我覺得這兩部法在修法的時候都應該一併同時來盤點，才能夠確保法官在實務面的執行上真的可以有正確的法律來援引，這也才能夠真正保障到一些生物多樣性需要去保育的野生動物，好嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員，我剛才也說了，動保法和野保法之間競合的部分，我們會更清楚的釐清，因為野保法已經進到立法院了，動保法可能在12月就進來，我希望在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清，所以我們會儘快的去處理這個問題。"],["張委員雅琳：我最後爭取一件事情，動保法修法的時候，是不是可以有一些野保法的團體一起來討論？因為這樣才可以知道我改了野保法可能會影響到哪些部分，才能夠確保一體性。"],["陳部長駿季：這個可能立法院……"],["主席：好，謝謝。張委員，公聽會才可以找他們討論。"],["張委員雅琳：我知道，我是說可不可以一起來討論。"],["陳部長駿季：我很樂意，不過要尊重立法院。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","請陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在。","請洪孟楷、洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員不在。","請徐巧芯、徐巧芯、徐巧芯委員不在。","請徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩委員不在。","請陳培瑜、陳培瑜、陳培瑜委員不在。","登記發言的委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員徐欣瑩、邱議瑩、張嘉郡、陳冠廷、邱志偉所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}}