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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 560.533, \"end\": 560.673, \"score\": 0.592}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 560.673, \"end\": 560.693, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"君\", \"start\": 560.693, \"end\": 560.813, \"score\": 0.62}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 560.813, \"end\": 560.833, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 560.833, \"end\": 560.953, \"score\": 0.62}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 560.953, \"end\": 560.973, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 560.973, \"end\": 560.993, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 584.42, \"end\": 584.551, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 584.551, \"end\": 584.573, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,932 --> 00:00:02,097\n謝謝主席麻煩請蔡局長來局長請\n\n2\n00:00:09,315 --> 00:00:11,817\n市長早,我們在今天大概就我們114年度施政計畫跟預算的這個報告那就我們看到114年稅出預算在公開的部分國安局在設備跟投資向下有一個雜項設備的經費裡面特勤中心要構置槍擊偵測系統夜間套件兩套\n\n3\n00:00:39,455 --> 00:00:43,319\n那這個案子要購買的這個兩個套件總共編了1473萬元執行年度是113跟114那其中113年就今年我們大概是74萬是5%的訂金\n\n4\n00:00:58,114 --> 00:00:58,494\n那時候為什麼沒有買?\n\n5\n00:01:19,825 --> 00:01:37,874\n我跟委員說明一下就我們現有的那個槍響偵測器本身也可以進行夜間的一個槍響偵測的一個作用本身是可以的因為在我們的安危八號總統大選期間一般的造勢晚會他都還是會有一些微亮的燈光所以在那種燈光之下要來偵測槍響的來源沒有問題\n\n6\n00:01:40,435 --> 00:01:40,595\n局長為什麼會有這種響電?\n\n7\n00:02:09,253 --> 00:02:34,979\n因為主要就在全國大停電之類的全部都案的情況之類這是什麼樣的狀況會變成這樣對因為也有可能啦這個各種還是國家有重大風險沒有就各種情況我們都必須要做像剛剛在做我們的預算報告也提到了我們會針對各種不同的想定來提升我們安危的能力那針對大型的停電的話假如真的是全案的話\n\n8\n00:02:35,519 --> 00:02:50,689\n國防局長您提到的這個想定是出乎我們意料之外就是說總統在什麼樣的情況之下會突然面臨到說你突然大庭店完全都是暗的情況之下然後你必須要去判斷那個槍響的來源因為那時候可能你有這樣的裝備都已經不太能夠保持這樣的安全所以\n\n9\n00:02:59,695 --> 00:03:00,416\n總統出席的場合要是那個區域有什麼\n\n10\n00:03:09,810 --> 00:03:10,510\n所以剛剛局長提到的並不是全貌\n\n11\n00:03:32,925 --> 00:03:34,467\n我們在112年度在編列這個預算的時候他編了2979萬元將近3000萬那要購置的聲響槍擊偵測系統這兩套裡面其實包含了四個\n\n12\n00:03:50,942 --> 00:03:53,383\n設備4個裝備4個主要裝備第一個就是偵測模組然後這個是1400多萬然後攝影模組包含日間跟夜間就兩種都要買日間大概700多萬夜間的也700萬然後還有備用套件要兩套\n\n13\n00:04:13,331 --> 00:04:34,287\n可是到最後我們112年在決標的資訊裡面由華新工程顧問公司他以少5萬元的金額得標就將近3000萬他用2975萬只少了5萬元他得標可是這其中卻拿掉了夜間夜間攝影設備的這個部分你知道局長你聽出問題在哪裡了嗎\n\n14\n00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:44,821\n他總共編了2979萬可是\n\n15\n00:04:53,578 --> 00:04:57,541\n到最後他只少了五萬可是那七百萬的夜間的這個設備沒了那你現在又編了錢要買先說明一下為什麼那時候把那個取消掉因為夜間其實總統候選人在選舉的時候其實他們碰到的狀況或者包括停電那時候停電才多就是如果用這樣的想定的時候那時候照理說應該要買的\n\n16\n00:05:19,397 --> 00:05:24,022\n特勤中心副指揮官李慶然跟委員報告當時的我們有尋商之後他的報價大概是在兩三千萬左右您剛提的數字沒錯那後來因為這個物價的波動那我們\n\n17\n00:05:41,138 --> 00:05:41,498\n最後尋商．．\n\n18\n00:06:06,772 --> 00:06:06,932\n你還可以跟他買嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:31,076 --> 00:06:45,384\n所以他第一個是你的巡商有問題第二個就是廠商用詐騙的方式讓你買了這些主要裝備以後後來在我看你明年已經今年跟明年又編了而且你是編雙倍你之前已經多給了700萬可是你現在編了又變成1400多萬要再買同樣的東西\n\n20\n00:06:54,810 --> 00:06:59,712\n1400萬是兩套的你之前也是兩套啊你之前也是編兩套我現在就是說他有一個可能就是他報價給你的時候他突然把你提高那個報價那你尋商只有一家嗎你還可以問其他家啊那為什麼會發生這樣的狀況這是我們覺得你在預算上面應該要去查清楚的後續還是希望這個部分因為你剛剛說物價波動那是那不可以接受因為你其他東西都沒有波動嗎\n\n21\n00:07:23,682 --> 00:07:28,865\n謝謝委員提醒我們,我會後會來完整的了解這個案子那如果是同一家廠商你就更不應該跟他買因為他原來給你的報價他報700萬結果沒有辦法他突然又要升高那個價格所以你把它取消掉那你現在又編了兩倍的價格要買同樣的東西你等於用三倍欸所以如果是這樣這個廠商有問題我們希望可以查查清楚那利用一點點時間因為最近\n\n22\n00:07:50,353 --> 00:07:50,493\n美國總統一直以來\n\n23\n00:08:14,617 --> 00:08:32,559\n對我們都是非常不友善他甚至認為我們搶了他晶片的生意這個是天大的笑話因為晶片是大家台灣很多很多人才努力的成果那還有的就是說他希望我們提高軍費就這些還有我們一直對他是粗糙的\n\n24\n00:08:33,340 --> 00:08:35,843\n所以中央銀行總裁其實他針對現在的評估報告以後他也做出了一些結論那就經濟面向局長你有什麼樣的建議跟看法可以給我們的高層做一個參考\n\n25\n00:08:48,497 --> 00:09:12,950\n跟委員說明一下因為在選舉過程當中美國總統候選人一些談話我們都有在注意那後續會不會落實為政策作為這我們會繼續來關注那另一部分跟委員說明一下在川普政府任內的第1任期的4年之內事實上臺美之間的溝通合作不只是委員提到的經貿在安全上合作都非常緊密因為那4年我擔任的是國安會的副秘書長所以我們在溝通聯繫上都有非常良好的經驗\n\n26\n00:09:13,590 --> 00:09:20,993\n不過要提醒因為過了4年那川普在這4年當中的變化或者未來整個世界局勢的變化因為那時候沒有戰爭那現在這兩場戰爭還有台海跟周邊很多區域的緊張的關係其實都會牽動後續的影響那這個部分我們希望是不是有比較具體的可以讓高層參考以外也可以讓我們委員會或者我們全民都可以比較清楚的一些資訊好不好謝謝謝委員馬文君委員各位請回\n\n27\n00:09:44,420 --> 00:09:44,573\n接下來\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n932\t2097\t謝謝主席 麻煩請蔡局長來 局長請\n9315\t11817\t市長早,我們在今天大概就我們114年度施政計畫跟預算的這個報告那就我們看到114年稅出預算在公開的部分國安局在設備跟投資向下有一個雜項設備的經費裡面特勤中心要構置槍擊偵測系統夜間套件兩套\n39455\t43319\t那這個案子要購買的這個兩個套件總共編了1473萬元執行年度是113跟114那其中113年就今年我們大概是74萬是5%的訂金\n58114\t58494\t那時候為什麼沒有買?\n79825\t97874\t我跟委員說明一下就我們現有的那個槍響偵測器本身也可以進行夜間的一個槍響偵測的一個作用本身是可以的因為在我們的安危八號總統大選期間一般的造勢晚會他都還是會有一些微亮的燈光所以在那種燈光之下要來偵測槍響的來源沒有問題\n100435\t100595\t局長為什麼會有這種響電?\n129253\t154979\t因為主要就在全國大停電之類的全部都案的情況之類這是什麼樣的狀況會變成這樣對 因為也有可能啦這個各種還是國家有重大風險沒有 就各種情況我們都必須要做像剛剛在做我們的預算報告也提到了我們會針對各種不同的想定來提升我們安危的能力那針對大型的停電的話假如真的是全案的話\n155519\t170689\t國防局長您提到的這個想定是出乎我們意料之外就是說總統在什麼樣的情況之下會突然面臨到說你突然大庭店完全都是暗的情況之下然後你必須要去判斷那個槍響的來源因為那時候可能你有這樣的裝備都已經不太能夠保持這樣的安全所以\n179695\t180416\t總統出席的場合要是那個區域有什麼\n189810\t190510\t所以剛剛局長提到的並不是全貌\n212925\t214467\t我們在112年度在編列這個預算的時候他編了2979萬元將近3000萬那要購置的聲響槍擊偵測系統這兩套裡面其實包含了四個\n230942\t233383\t設備4個裝備4個主要裝備第一個就是偵測模組然後這個是1400多萬然後攝影模組包含日間跟夜間就兩種都要買日間大概700多萬夜間的也700萬然後還有備用套件要兩套\n253331\t274287\t可是到最後我們112年在決標的資訊裡面由華新工程顧問公司他以少5萬元的金額得標就將近3000萬他用2975萬只少了5萬元他得標可是這其中卻拿掉了夜間夜間攝影設備的這個部分你知道局長你聽出問題在哪裡了嗎\n284360\t284821\t他總共編了2979萬可是\n293578\t297541\t到最後他只少了五萬可是那七百萬的夜間的這個設備沒了那你現在又編了錢要買先說明一下為什麼那時候把那個取消掉因為夜間其實總統候選人在選舉的時候其實他們碰到的狀況或者包括停電那時候停電才多就是如果用這樣的想定的時候那時候照理說應該要買的\n319397\t324022\t特勤中心副指揮官李慶然跟委員報告當時的我們有尋商之後他的報價大概是在兩三千萬左右您剛提的數字沒錯那後來因為這個物價的波動那我們\n341138\t341498\t最後尋商．．\n366772\t366932\t你還可以跟他買嗎?\n391076\t405384\t所以他第一個是你的巡商有問題第二個就是廠商用詐騙的方式讓你買了這些主要裝備以後後來在我看你明年已經今年跟明年又編了而且你是編雙倍你之前已經多給了700萬可是你現在編了又變成1400多萬要再買同樣的東西\n414810\t419712\t1400萬是兩套的你之前也是兩套啊你之前也是編兩套我現在就是說他有一個可能就是他報價給你的時候他突然把你提高那個報價那你尋商只有一家嗎你還可以問其他家啊那為什麼會發生這樣的狀況這是我們覺得你在預算上面應該要去查清楚的後續還是希望這個部分因為你剛剛說物價波動那是那不可以接受因為你其他東西都沒有波動嗎\n443682\t448865\t謝謝委員提醒我們,我會後會來完整的了解這個案子那如果是同一家廠商你就更不應該跟他買因為他原來給你的報價他報700萬結果沒有辦法他突然又要升高那個價格所以你把它取消掉那你現在又編了兩倍的價格要買同樣的東西你等於用三倍欸所以如果是這樣這個廠商有問題我們希望可以查查清楚那利用一點點時間因為最近\n470353\t470493\t美國總統一直以來\n494617\t512559\t對我們都是非常不友善他甚至認為我們搶了他晶片的生意這個是天大的笑話因為晶片是大家台灣很多很多人才努力的成果那還有的就是說他希望我們提高軍費就這些還有我們一直對他是粗糙的\n513340\t515843\t所以中央銀行總裁其實他針對現在的評估報告以後他也做出了一些結論那就經濟面向局長你有什麼樣的建議跟看法可以給我們的高層做一個參考\n528497\t552950\t跟委員說明一下因為在選舉過程當中美國總統候選人一些談話我們都有在注意那後續會不會落實為政策作為這我們會繼續來關注那另一部分跟委員說明一下在川普政府任內的第1任期的4年之內事實上臺美之間的溝通合作不只是委員提到的經貿在安全上合作都非常緊密因為那4年我擔任的是國安會的副秘書長所以我們在溝通聯繫上都有非常良好的經驗\n553590\t560993\t不過要提醒因為過了4年那川普在這4年當中的變化或者未來整個世界局勢的變化因為那時候沒有戰爭那現在這兩場戰爭還有台海跟周邊很多區域的緊張的關係其實都會牽動後續的影響那這個部分我們希望是不是有比較具體的可以讓高層參考以外也可以讓我們委員會或者我們全民都可以比較清楚的一些資訊好不好謝謝 謝委員馬文君委員各位請回\n584420\t584573\t接下來\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩請蔡局長來 局長請\n市長早,我們在今天大概就我們114年度施政計畫跟預算的這個報告那就我們看到114年稅出預算在公開的部分國安局在設備跟投資向下有一個雜項設備的經費裡面特勤中心要構置槍擊偵測系統夜間套件兩套\n那這個案子要購買的這個兩個套件總共編了1473萬元執行年度是113跟114那其中113年就今年我們大概是74萬是5%的訂金\n那時候為什麼沒有買?\n我跟委員說明一下就我們現有的那個槍響偵測器本身也可以進行夜間的一個槍響偵測的一個作用本身是可以的因為在我們的安危八號總統大選期間一般的造勢晚會他都還是會有一些微亮的燈光所以在那種燈光之下要來偵測槍響的來源沒有問題\n局長為什麼會有這種響電?\n因為主要就在全國大停電之類的全部都案的情況之類這是什麼樣的狀況會變成這樣對 因為也有可能啦這個各種還是國家有重大風險沒有 就各種情況我們都必須要做像剛剛在做我們的預算報告也提到了我們會針對各種不同的想定來提升我們安危的能力那針對大型的停電的話假如真的是全案的話\n國防局長您提到的這個想定是出乎我們意料之外就是說總統在什麼樣的情況之下會突然面臨到說你突然大庭店完全都是暗的情況之下然後你必須要去判斷那個槍響的來源因為那時候可能你有這樣的裝備都已經不太能夠保持這樣的安全所以\n總統出席的場合要是那個區域有什麼\n所以剛剛局長提到的並不是全貌\n我們在112年度在編列這個預算的時候他編了2979萬元將近3000萬那要購置的聲響槍擊偵測系統這兩套裡面其實包含了四個\n設備4個裝備4個主要裝備第一個就是偵測模組然後這個是1400多萬然後攝影模組包含日間跟夜間就兩種都要買日間大概700多萬夜間的也700萬然後還有備用套件要兩套\n可是到最後我們112年在決標的資訊裡面由華新工程顧問公司他以少5萬元的金額得標就將近3000萬他用2975萬只少了5萬元他得標可是這其中卻拿掉了夜間夜間攝影設備的這個部分你知道局長你聽出問題在哪裡了嗎\n他總共編了2979萬可是\n到最後他只少了五萬可是那七百萬的夜間的這個設備沒了那你現在又編了錢要買先說明一下為什麼那時候把那個取消掉因為夜間其實總統候選人在選舉的時候其實他們碰到的狀況或者包括停電那時候停電才多就是如果用這樣的想定的時候那時候照理說應該要買的\n特勤中心副指揮官李慶然跟委員報告當時的我們有尋商之後他的報價大概是在兩三千萬左右您剛提的數字沒錯那後來因為這個物價的波動那我們\n最後尋商．．\n你還可以跟他買嗎?\n所以他第一個是你的巡商有問題第二個就是廠商用詐騙的方式讓你買了這些主要裝備以後後來在我看你明年已經今年跟明年又編了而且你是編雙倍你之前已經多給了700萬可是你現在編了又變成1400多萬要再買同樣的東西\n1400萬是兩套的你之前也是兩套啊你之前也是編兩套我現在就是說他有一個可能就是他報價給你的時候他突然把你提高那個報價那你尋商只有一家嗎你還可以問其他家啊那為什麼會發生這樣的狀況這是我們覺得你在預算上面應該要去查清楚的後續還是希望這個部分因為你剛剛說物價波動那是那不可以接受因為你其他東西都沒有波動嗎\n謝謝委員提醒我們,我會後會來完整的了解這個案子那如果是同一家廠商你就更不應該跟他買因為他原來給你的報價他報700萬結果沒有辦法他突然又要升高那個價格所以你把它取消掉那你現在又編了兩倍的價格要買同樣的東西你等於用三倍欸所以如果是這樣這個廠商有問題我們希望可以查查清楚那利用一點點時間因為最近\n美國總統一直以來\n對我們都是非常不友善他甚至認為我們搶了他晶片的生意這個是天大的笑話因為晶片是大家台灣很多很多人才努力的成果那還有的就是說他希望我們提高軍費就這些還有我們一直對他是粗糙的\n所以中央銀行總裁其實他針對現在的評估報告以後他也做出了一些結論那就經濟面向局長你有什麼樣的建議跟看法可以給我們的高層做一個參考\n跟委員說明一下因為在選舉過程當中美國總統候選人一些談話我們都有在注意那後續會不會落實為政策作為這我們會繼續來關注那另一部分跟委員說明一下在川普政府任內的第1任期的4年之內事實上臺美之間的溝通合作不只是委員提到的經貿在安全上合作都非常緊密因為那4年我擔任的是國安會的副秘書長所以我們在溝通聯繫上都有非常良好的經驗\n不過要提醒因為過了4年那川普在這4年當中的變化或者未來整個世界局勢的變化因為那時候沒有戰爭那現在這兩場戰爭還有台海跟周邊很多區域的緊張的關係其實都會牽動後續的影響那這個部分我們希望是不是有比較具體的可以讓高層參考以外也可以讓我們委員會或者我們全民都可以比較清楚的一些資訊好不好謝謝 謝委員馬文君委員各位請回\n接下來\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.932 --> 00:02.097\n謝謝主席麻煩請蔡局長來局長請\n\n00:09.315 --> 00:11.817\n市長早,我們在今天大概就我們114年度施政計畫跟預算的這個報告那就我們看到114年稅出預算在公開的部分國安局在設備跟投資向下有一個雜項設備的經費裡面特勤中心要構置槍擊偵測系統夜間套件兩套\n\n00:39.455 --> 00:43.319\n那這個案子要購買的這個兩個套件總共編了1473萬元執行年度是113跟114那其中113年就今年我們大概是74萬是5%的訂金\n\n00:58.114 --> 00:58.494\n那時候為什麼沒有買?\n\n01:19.825 --> 01:37.874\n我跟委員說明一下就我們現有的那個槍響偵測器本身也可以進行夜間的一個槍響偵測的一個作用本身是可以的因為在我們的安危八號總統大選期間一般的造勢晚會他都還是會有一些微亮的燈光所以在那種燈光之下要來偵測槍響的來源沒有問題\n\n01:40.435 --> 01:40.595\n局長為什麼會有這種響電?\n\n02:09.253 --> 02:34.979\n因為主要就在全國大停電之類的全部都案的情況之類這是什麼樣的狀況會變成這樣對因為也有可能啦這個各種還是國家有重大風險沒有就各種情況我們都必須要做像剛剛在做我們的預算報告也提到了我們會針對各種不同的想定來提升我們安危的能力那針對大型的停電的話假如真的是全案的話\n\n02:35.519 --> 02:50.689\n國防局長您提到的這個想定是出乎我們意料之外就是說總統在什麼樣的情況之下會突然面臨到說你突然大庭店完全都是暗的情況之下然後你必須要去判斷那個槍響的來源因為那時候可能你有這樣的裝備都已經不太能夠保持這樣的安全所以\n\n02:59.695 --> 03:00.416\n總統出席的場合要是那個區域有什麼\n\n03:09.810 --> 03:10.510\n所以剛剛局長提到的並不是全貌\n\n03:32.925 --> 03:34.467\n我們在112年度在編列這個預算的時候他編了2979萬元將近3000萬那要購置的聲響槍擊偵測系統這兩套裡面其實包含了四個\n\n03:50.942 --> 03:53.383\n設備4個裝備4個主要裝備第一個就是偵測模組然後這個是1400多萬然後攝影模組包含日間跟夜間就兩種都要買日間大概700多萬夜間的也700萬然後還有備用套件要兩套\n\n04:13.331 --> 04:34.287\n可是到最後我們112年在決標的資訊裡面由華新工程顧問公司他以少5萬元的金額得標就將近3000萬他用2975萬只少了5萬元他得標可是這其中卻拿掉了夜間夜間攝影設備的這個部分你知道局長你聽出問題在哪裡了嗎\n\n04:44.360 --> 04:44.821\n他總共編了2979萬可是\n\n04:53.578 --> 04:57.541\n到最後他只少了五萬可是那七百萬的夜間的這個設備沒了那你現在又編了錢要買先說明一下為什麼那時候把那個取消掉因為夜間其實總統候選人在選舉的時候其實他們碰到的狀況或者包括停電那時候停電才多就是如果用這樣的想定的時候那時候照理說應該要買的\n\n05:19.397 --> 05:24.022\n特勤中心副指揮官李慶然跟委員報告當時的我們有尋商之後他的報價大概是在兩三千萬左右您剛提的數字沒錯那後來因為這個物價的波動那我們\n\n05:41.138 --> 05:41.498\n最後尋商．．\n\n06:06.772 --> 06:06.932\n你還可以跟他買嗎?\n\n06:31.076 --> 06:45.384\n所以他第一個是你的巡商有問題第二個就是廠商用詐騙的方式讓你買了這些主要裝備以後後來在我看你明年已經今年跟明年又編了而且你是編雙倍你之前已經多給了700萬可是你現在編了又變成1400多萬要再買同樣的東西\n\n06:54.810 --> 06:59.712\n1400萬是兩套的你之前也是兩套啊你之前也是編兩套我現在就是說他有一個可能就是他報價給你的時候他突然把你提高那個報價那你尋商只有一家嗎你還可以問其他家啊那為什麼會發生這樣的狀況這是我們覺得你在預算上面應該要去查清楚的後續還是希望這個部分因為你剛剛說物價波動那是那不可以接受因為你其他東西都沒有波動嗎\n\n07:23.682 --> 07:28.865\n謝謝委員提醒我們,我會後會來完整的了解這個案子那如果是同一家廠商你就更不應該跟他買因為他原來給你的報價他報700萬結果沒有辦法他突然又要升高那個價格所以你把它取消掉那你現在又編了兩倍的價格要買同樣的東西你等於用三倍欸所以如果是這樣這個廠商有問題我們希望可以查查清楚那利用一點點時間因為最近\n\n07:50.353 --> 07:50.493\n美國總統一直以來\n\n08:14.617 --> 08:32.559\n對我們都是非常不友善他甚至認為我們搶了他晶片的生意這個是天大的笑話因為晶片是大家台灣很多很多人才努力的成果那還有的就是說他希望我們提高軍費就這些還有我們一直對他是粗糙的\n\n08:33.340 --> 08:35.843\n所以中央銀行總裁其實他針對現在的評估報告以後他也做出了一些結論那就經濟面向局長你有什麼樣的建議跟看法可以給我們的高層做一個參考\n\n08:48.497 --> 09:12.950\n跟委員說明一下因為在選舉過程當中美國總統候選人一些談話我們都有在注意那後續會不會落實為政策作為這我們會繼續來關注那另一部分跟委員說明一下在川普政府任內的第1任期的4年之內事實上臺美之間的溝通合作不只是委員提到的經貿在安全上合作都非常緊密因為那4年我擔任的是國安會的副秘書長所以我們在溝通聯繫上都有非常良好的經驗\n\n09:13.590 --> 09:20.993\n不過要提醒因為過了4年那川普在這4年當中的變化或者未來整個世界局勢的變化因為那時候沒有戰爭那現在這兩場戰爭還有台海跟周邊很多區域的緊張的關係其實都會牽動後續的影響那這個部分我們希望是不是有比較具體的可以讓高層參考以外也可以讓我們委員會或者我們全民都可以比較清楚的一些資訊好不好謝謝謝委員馬文君委員各位請回\n\n09:44.420 --> 09:44.573\n接下來\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.932,"end":2.097,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請蔡局長來 局長請"},{"start":9.315,"end":11.817,"text":"市長早,我們在今天大概就我們114年度施政計畫跟預算的這個報告那就我們看到114年稅出預算在公開的部分國安局在設備跟投資向下有一個雜項設備的經費裡面特勤中心要構置槍擊偵測系統夜間套件兩套"},{"start":39.455,"end":43.319,"text":"那這個案子要購買的這個兩個套件總共編了1473萬元執行年度是113跟114那其中113年就今年我們大概是74萬是5%的訂金"},{"start":58.114,"end":58.494,"text":"那時候為什麼沒有買?"},{"start":79.825,"end":97.874,"text":"我跟委員說明一下就我們現有的那個槍響偵測器本身也可以進行夜間的一個槍響偵測的一個作用本身是可以的因為在我們的安危八號總統大選期間一般的造勢晚會他都還是會有一些微亮的燈光所以在那種燈光之下要來偵測槍響的來源沒有問題"},{"start":100.435,"end":100.595,"text":"局長為什麼會有這種響電?"},{"start":129.253,"end":154.979,"text":"因為主要就在全國大停電之類的全部都案的情況之類這是什麼樣的狀況會變成這樣對 因為也有可能啦這個各種還是國家有重大風險沒有 就各種情況我們都必須要做像剛剛在做我們的預算報告也提到了我們會針對各種不同的想定來提升我們安危的能力那針對大型的停電的話假如真的是全案的話"},{"start":155.519,"end":170.689,"text":"國防局長您提到的這個想定是出乎我們意料之外就是說總統在什麼樣的情況之下會突然面臨到說你突然大庭店完全都是暗的情況之下然後你必須要去判斷那個槍響的來源因為那時候可能你有這樣的裝備都已經不太能夠保持這樣的安全所以"},{"start":179.695,"end":180.416,"text":"總統出席的場合要是那個區域有什麼"},{"start":189.81,"end":190.51,"text":"所以剛剛局長提到的並不是全貌"},{"start":212.925,"end":214.467,"text":"我們在112年度在編列這個預算的時候他編了2979萬元將近3000萬那要購置的聲響槍擊偵測系統這兩套裡面其實包含了四個"},{"start":230.942,"end":233.383,"text":"設備4個裝備4個主要裝備第一個就是偵測模組然後這個是1400多萬然後攝影模組包含日間跟夜間就兩種都要買日間大概700多萬夜間的也700萬然後還有備用套件要兩套"},{"start":253.331,"end":274.287,"text":"可是到最後我們112年在決標的資訊裡面由華新工程顧問公司他以少5萬元的金額得標就將近3000萬他用2975萬只少了5萬元他得標可是這其中卻拿掉了夜間夜間攝影設備的這個部分你知道局長你聽出問題在哪裡了嗎"},{"start":284.36,"end":284.821,"text":"他總共編了2979萬可是"},{"start":293.578,"end":297.541,"text":"到最後他只少了五萬可是那七百萬的夜間的這個設備沒了那你現在又編了錢要買先說明一下為什麼那時候把那個取消掉因為夜間其實總統候選人在選舉的時候其實他們碰到的狀況或者包括停電那時候停電才多就是如果用這樣的想定的時候那時候照理說應該要買的"},{"start":319.397,"end":324.022,"text":"特勤中心副指揮官李慶然跟委員報告當時的我們有尋商之後他的報價大概是在兩三千萬左右您剛提的數字沒錯那後來因為這個物價的波動那我們"},{"start":341.138,"end":341.498,"text":"最後尋商．．"},{"start":366.772,"end":366.932,"text":"你還可以跟他買嗎?"},{"start":391.076,"end":405.384,"text":"所以他第一個是你的巡商有問題第二個就是廠商用詐騙的方式讓你買了這些主要裝備以後後來在我看你明年已經今年跟明年又編了而且你是編雙倍你之前已經多給了700萬可是你現在編了又變成1400多萬要再買同樣的東西"},{"start":414.81,"end":419.712,"text":"1400萬是兩套的你之前也是兩套啊你之前也是編兩套我現在就是說他有一個可能就是他報價給你的時候他突然把你提高那個報價那你尋商只有一家嗎你還可以問其他家啊那為什麼會發生這樣的狀況這是我們覺得你在預算上面應該要去查清楚的後續還是希望這個部分因為你剛剛說物價波動那是那不可以接受因為你其他東西都沒有波動嗎"},{"start":443.682,"end":448.865,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我們,我會後會來完整的了解這個案子那如果是同一家廠商你就更不應該跟他買因為他原來給你的報價他報700萬結果沒有辦法他突然又要升高那個價格所以你把它取消掉那你現在又編了兩倍的價格要買同樣的東西你等於用三倍欸所以如果是這樣這個廠商有問題我們希望可以查查清楚那利用一點點時間因為最近"},{"start":470.353,"end":470.493,"text":"美國總統一直以來"},{"start":494.617,"end":512.559,"text":"對我們都是非常不友善他甚至認為我們搶了他晶片的生意這個是天大的笑話因為晶片是大家台灣很多很多人才努力的成果那還有的就是說他希望我們提高軍費就這些還有我們一直對他是粗糙的"},{"start":513.34,"end":515.843,"text":"所以中央銀行總裁其實他針對現在的評估報告以後他也做出了一些結論那就經濟面向局長你有什麼樣的建議跟看法可以給我們的高層做一個參考"},{"start":528.497,"end":552.95,"text":"跟委員說明一下因為在選舉過程當中美國總統候選人一些談話我們都有在注意那後續會不會落實為政策作為這我們會繼續來關注那另一部分跟委員說明一下在川普政府任內的第1任期的4年之內事實上臺美之間的溝通合作不只是委員提到的經貿在安全上合作都非常緊密因為那4年我擔任的是國安會的副秘書長所以我們在溝通聯繫上都有非常良好的經驗"},{"start":553.59,"end":560.993,"text":"不過要提醒因為過了4年那川普在這4年當中的變化或者未來整個世界局勢的變化因為那時候沒有戰爭那現在這兩場戰爭還有台海跟周邊很多區域的緊張的關係其實都會牽動後續的影響那這個部分我們希望是不是有比較具體的可以讓高層參考以外也可以讓我們委員會或者我們全民都可以比較清楚的一些資訊好不好謝謝 謝委員馬文君委員各位請回"},{"start":584.42,"end":584.573,"text":"接下來"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":194,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（9時44分）謝謝主席。麻煩請蔡局長。"],["主席：局長，請。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席。馬委員早。"],["馬委員文君：局長早。你們今天就114年度施政計畫跟預算報告，我們看到114年歲出預算在公開的部分，國安局在設備和投資項下有一個雜項設備的經費裡面，特勤中心要購置槍擊偵測系統夜間套件兩套。"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["馬委員文君：這個案子要購買這兩個套件總共編了1,473萬元，執行年度是113跟114年。其中113年就是今年，大概是74萬，是5%的訂金嘛！明年要編1,399萬元，對不對？"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["馬委員文君：可是局長，你知道嗎？這個槍擊偵測系統的夜間套件，其實我們最早使用的情況是要用在第十六任總統、副總統的選舉。"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["馬委員文君：那時候為什麼沒有買？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，我跟委員說明一下，就我們現有的槍響偵測器本身也可以進行夜間的槍響偵測的作用，它本身是可以的，因為我們的安維8號總統大選期間，一般的造勢晚會都還是會有一些微亮的燈光，所以在那種燈光之下要來偵測槍響來源沒有問題，但我們現在所編列的預算是針對今年跟明年的夜間槍響偵測器，它指的是一旦整個城市或大型的區域停電，完全沒有電源、光源，百分之百是暗的情況之下，這個新式的槍響偵測器可以發揮它的作用，所以我們現在採購是針對這一種全部區域性大斷電、大停電的情況之下的安全維安部署。"],["馬委員文君：局長，為什麼會有這種想定？"],["蔡局長明彥：因為主要就在……"],["馬委員文君：全國大停電……"],["蔡局長明彥：之類的。"],["馬委員文君：全部都暗的情況之下，這是什麼樣的狀況會變成這樣？"],["蔡局長明彥：因為也有可能啦……"],["馬委員文君：缺電？還是有國家有重大風險？"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有，就是各種情況我們都必須要做，像剛剛我們的預算報告也提到了，我們會針對各種不同的想定來提升安維的能力，針對大型停電的話，假如真的是全暗的話……"],["馬委員文君：不過局長你提到的這個想定出乎我們意料之外，就是說，總統在什麼樣的情況之下會突然面臨到突然大停電，完全都是暗的情況之下，你必須要去判斷那個槍響的來源？因為那時候可能你有這樣的裝備都已經不太能夠保持安全啦！"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["馬委員文君：所以我還是有點……"],["蔡局長明彥：也跟委員說明一下，即使是在一般的狀況，總統出席的場合，要是那個區域有什麼大型設施停電的話，我們還是會做最壞的打算，既有的……"],["馬委員文君：對，可是我們現在回過頭來，就是說它是必要的，在總統選舉的過程當中，他外出的機會其實是最大的，不管哪一位總統候選人，那時候我們主要的目的也是為了這個，所以剛剛局長提到的並不是全貌，我們在112年度編列這個預算時有編了2,979萬元，將近3,000萬元，那要購置的聲響槍擊偵測系統這兩套裡面其實包含了4個設備……"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["馬委員文君：4個主要裝備，第一個就是偵測模組，是一千四百多萬，攝影模組包含日間跟夜間，就是兩種都要買，日間大概七百多萬，夜間的也700萬，然後還有備用套件要兩套。"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["馬委員文君：可是到最後112年在決標的資訊裡面，由華新工程顧問公司以少5萬元的金額得標，將近3,000萬，它用2,975萬，只少了5萬元得標，可是這其中卻拿掉了夜間攝影設備這個部分，局長，你聽出問題在哪裡了嗎？它總共編了2,979萬，可是到最後它只少了5萬……"],["蔡局長明彥：我知道，聽懂。"],["馬委員文君：可是那個700萬的夜間設備沒了，你現在又編了錢要買，是不是先說明一下為什麼那時候把那個取消掉？其實總統候選人在選舉的時候，他們碰到的狀況或者包括停電，那時候的停電才多，如果用這樣的想定，那時候照理說應該要買的，後來為什麼沒買？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，好，這部分特勤剛剛有再跟我說明，我請他補充細節。"],["馬委員文君：簡單說明就好。"],["李副指揮官：委員好，我是特勤中心副指揮官，跟委員報告，當時我們有詢商之後，它的報價大概是在兩、三千萬左右，您剛剛提的數字沒錯，後來因為物價的波動，我們最後詢商之後……"],["馬委員文君：這樣的說法，我們不能接受，你的詢商只詢一家嗎？你上網去看，那個很多家都在賣，如果是物價波動，只有夜間的物價波動，你日間的沒有問題，日間的還是一樣。所以第一，如果國安局這樣一個單位都可以在詢商上面，等於能力算是差的，你讓主要一個這樣的裝備其實沒有辦法獲取，你的金額才只少掉5萬塊。","第二個可能，那個廠商是不是用詐騙的手段？它剛開始跟你報價的時候，距離多久？如果它報價差那麼多，主要的裝備還沒有辦法獲得，你還可以跟他買嗎？所以第一個，是你的詢商有問題，第二個就是廠商用詐騙的方式讓你買了這些主要裝備以後，我看你今年跟明年又編了，而且你是編雙倍，之前你已經多給了700萬，可是你現在又編了一千四百多萬要再買同樣的東西。"],["李副指揮官：1,400萬是兩套的夜間套件……"],["馬委員文君：你之前也是編兩套，現在就是它有一個可能，就是它報價給你的時候突然提高報價，你只有詢商一家嗎？你還可以問其他家，為什麼會發生這樣的狀況？這是我們覺得你在預算上面應該要去查清楚的，後續還是希望……這個部分因為你剛剛說物價波動，那不可以接受，因為其他東西都沒有波動嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝委員提醒，我會後會來完整瞭解這個案子。"],["馬委員文君：這個部分要查清楚，如果是同一家廠商，你就更不應該跟它買，因為它原來給你的報價是700萬，結果沒有辦法，突然又要升高價格，所以你把它取消掉，你現在又編了兩倍的價格要買同樣的東西，你等於用三倍，如果是這樣，這個廠商有問題，我們希望可以查察清楚。"],["蔡局長明彥：這我們來瞭解，我們來調查。"],["馬委員文君：再利用一點點時間，因為最近全球都一樣，大家都在關注川普上臺以後局勢會怎麼樣變化，當然大家可能都有不同的見解跟看法，我們比較關注的還是我們臺灣本身。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["馬委員文君：就局長來看，在經濟的波動上面，因為我們對美國一直是出超的，可是在選舉的過程當中，川普總統其實一直以來對我們都是非常不友善，他甚至認為我們搶了他晶片的生意，這個是天大的笑話，因為晶片是臺灣很多很多人才努力的成果，還有就是他希望我們提高軍費，就這些……還有我們一直對他是出超的，所以中央銀行總裁針對現在的評估報告也做出了一些結論，就經濟面向，局長，你有什麼樣的建議跟看法可以給我們的高層做一個參考？"],["主席：請摘要。"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員說明一下，因為在選舉過程當中，關於美國總統候選人的一些談話，我們都有在注意，後續會不會落實為政策作為，這我們會繼續來關注。另一部分跟委員說明，在川普政府第一任期的四年之內，事實上臺美之間的溝通合作，不只是委員提到的經貿，在安全上合作都非常緊密，因為那四年我擔任國安會副秘書長，所以我們在溝通聯繫上都有非常良好的經驗。"],["馬委員文君：不過還是要提醒，因為過了四年，川普在這四年當中的變化或者未來整個世界局勢的變化……"],["蔡局長明彥：是，當然。"],["馬委員文君：因為那時候沒有戰爭，現在這兩場戰爭，還有臺海跟周邊很多區域的緊張關係，其實都會牽動後續的影響。這個部分我們希望有比較具體的可以讓高層參考以外，也可以讓我們委員會或者我們全民都可以有比較清楚的一些資訊，好不好？"],["蔡局長明彥：應該的，謝謝委員。"],["馬委員文君：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是沈伯洋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-13","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","洪申翰","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林憶君","陳永康","林楚茵"],"page_start":71,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄【含秘密會議】","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00002"}}}