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\"只缺林卜不易所以你們就在7月31號得到行政院答覆你們工程裡面的待遇提升方增加了專業加給3000塊然後在工程獎金的留任獎金上從5500提高到16萬這是人總去爭取的嘛是不是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 338.405, \"end\": 338.585, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"缺\", \"start\": 338.585, \"end\": 338.845, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 338.845, \"end\": 339.065, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"卜\", \"start\": 339.065, \"end\": 339.266, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 339.266, \"end\": 339.406, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 339.406, \"end\": 339.926, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 339.926, \"end\": 340.026, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 340.026, \"end\": 340.226, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 340.226, \"end\": 340.466, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 340.466, \"end\": 340.606, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 340.606, \"end\": 341.227, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 341.227, 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\"憶\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 355.015, \"end\": 355.155, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 355.155, \"end\": 355.235, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 355.235, \"end\": 355.255, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 374.008, \"end\": 377.631, \"text\": \"十四點五,那就對了。但是我們來看一下實況上媒體的報導。不只你們要去跟民間部門搶財,七月也要跟公務門搶財,搶什麼人?搶土木專財,年薪兩百萬配車包租屋,他加倍的行情。他們認為什麼?如果說政府的標案多,他們業界缺人,他直接跟你行政機關挖啊,他所謂有行政機關更好啊。你覺得目前工程人員的待遇提升方案能夠追得上業界嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 374.008, \"end\": 374.088, \"score\": 0.505}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 374.088, \"end\": 374.108, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 374.108, \"end\": 374.208, \"score\": 0.636}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 374.208, \"end\": 374.228, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 374.228, \"end\": 374.308, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 374.308, \"end\": 374.328, 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{\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 616.069, \"end\": 616.129, \"score\": 0.564}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 616.129, \"end\": 616.149, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 616.149, \"end\": 616.289, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 616.289, \"end\": 616.309, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 621.055, \"end\": 621.175, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"）\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 621.175, \"end\": 621.195, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,276 --> 00:00:13,409\n主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府、金剛市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請蘇仁市長請蘇仁市長\n\n2\n00:00:19,287 --> 00:00:48,246\n市長,我們這次我要講的是高階專才短期專案協助政府美軍的薪資制度可以解決我們長期的缺,讓您參考一下。來回顧一下,我在今年也不又上個月的時候,請教您跟蘇發部的次長,誰是政府導入AI的組織機關?你認為呢?是誰?則吳龐大就是數位發展部。好,是數位發展部,他今天不在。那成效由誰來管考?\n\n3\n00:00:49,585 --> 00:00:55,807\n當然也是數位發展部,我們是負責訓練,這也是我們的責任。您說在業務上是由數位發展部主導,我們看下一頁。但是在經過這麼一個月我去看了一下,我發現人種很積極。\n\n4\n00:01:06,491 --> 00:01:19,664\n美國政府也很積極,他在公共行政部門AI的應用狀況清單。他們有一個報告提到,他們不管是在環境社會福利,醫療保健交通,還有識別以及對退伍軍人的服務和樂島消營等等對於極端氣候。他們一共盤點了包括23個非軍事的機構,發布了200多個AI的使用方案。\n\n5\n00:01:28,852 --> 00:01:49,996\n還有700多個AI的應用專正在開發裝中。你覺得人種相較於美國政府,你們有沒有很積極的也在希望協助各部門往AI,所謂的AI就是人工智慧,人工智慧大家所普遍的認知就可以節約或提高人力的運用效能,對不對?剛好人種就是負責人力的運用嘛,所以這也是你們投入AI的原因之一,是不是啊?\n\n6\n00:01:50,876 --> 00:02:14,669\n我們最重要的是在訓練每一個公務人員都有AI的DNA也協助他們在業務上能夠精進讓他們在人事效率上應用更高是不是這樣當然好那所以你當我這樣舉例你覺得是不是需要去盤點一下參考一下美國政府在AI應用狀況的清單並研議相對應的業務導入AI的可行性你覺得值不值得參考\n\n7\n00:02:15,633 --> 00:02:35,104\n我覺得委員整理這個資料非常棒我相信數位發展部的數位政府師應該是有證好你還是認為說雖然人事總署很積極但是政府的權責機關在行政院還是人還是出發不好但是我們看一下服務型的智慧政府2.0推動計畫這是不是人總在推的\n\n8\n00:02:37,140 --> 00:02:37,160\n議員吳沛憶\n\n9\n00:02:56,058 --> 00:03:06,758\n所以你們是不是也是可以剛剛我提供給你參考的美國政府的AI應用狀況清單的可行性,相對應的服務可以納入你們的服務型政府智慧政府2.0的推動計畫?\n\n10\n00:03:09,727 --> 00:03:35,966\n你們還是講以人事為主嗎?我委員補充,他就像一大堆肉粽,肉粽頭是在數位發展部,那我們這個服務型智慧政府那是人事的,租給其他各個部位,我們的重點會在人事。但是人事部門,你們業務上只負責人事部門,但是所有政府部門人員的人事制度是你們主導嗎?包括他們的薪資結構,你們要來幫他們講話嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:38,288 --> 00:04:05,617\n是。好。那我們來看一下下一頁。所以我們來看一下我們政府有一個跟美國政府一樣高階的技術專才他們是用短期專案來協助政府業務我們看到華爾街日報他一個報導美國的國防部要進行一個創新計畫去招募矽谷的高階技術專才以兼職的方式以中高階軍官的身份投入美軍的後備役協助網路安全跟數據分析很有趣美國的國防部他們的用人制度很靈活\n\n12\n00:04:06,517 --> 00:04:26,716\n他們有可以從民間挖專材與護背役的方式他們有國民兵有這些的相關的制度那您覺得如果是用這個方式包括科技業以外啦物流啦航空啦你覺得我們台灣政府可不可以參考美軍去招募高階技術專材一短期專案來協助政府導入AI及協助網路安全和數據分析呢?\n\n13\n00:04:27,837 --> 00:04:48,098\n我覺得有機會因為在訴發部底下有一個治安院那治安院是一個行政法人行政法人他可以比較靈活的去害這些人進來所以在你任總的立場來講其實你認為給訴發部當時在人事制度上就留有這樣的空間讓他去運用對嗎那你覺得他目前有充分的運用嗎\n\n14\n00:04:51,038 --> 00:05:08,708\n他有在應用一些資安相關領域的一個study嗎?好那我們來看一下但是我們要看人總啊自己本身你們自己發的齁我在7月的時候呢我問了一個說相同的能力之下心事待遇跟業界相仿才能保有優秀的公務員我還記得我那時候說的\n\n15\n00:05:09,568 --> 00:05:37,465\n人總過去的思考都是說公務人員來互相比較我要提高這個人員的應用的這個機會留用他我把他跟其他公務員的薪資待遇相對拉高我有那時候跟您提過這是不夠的因為這些優優人才不是在公務機關互相比較他是跟民間部門跟他同樣技術能力的人的薪酬來互相比較你同不同意他們是這樣想非常同意好所以呢你看你們人總在提到說公務機關的工程人員\n\n16\n00:05:38,405 --> 00:05:52,973\n只缺林卜不易所以你們就在7月31號得到行政院答覆你們工程裡面的待遇提升方增加了專業加給3000塊然後在工程獎金的留任獎金上從5500提高到16萬這是人總去爭取的嘛是不是\n\n17\n00:05:54,735 --> 00:05:55,255\n吳沛憶等21人擬具\n\n18\n00:06:14,008 --> 00:06:17,631\n十四點五,那就對了。但是我們來看一下實況上媒體的報導。不只你們要去跟民間部門搶財,七月也要跟公務門搶財,搶什麼人?搶土木專財,年薪兩百萬配車包租屋,他加倍的行情。他們認為什麼?如果說政府的標案多,他們業界缺人,他直接跟你行政機關挖啊,他所謂有行政機關更好啊。你覺得目前工程人員的待遇提升方案能夠追得上業界嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:42,032 --> 00:07:02,007\n你們剛剛提出的這個方案能留得住專才嗎?有沒有辦法?我跟委員坦白的報告啦。這個扭開之後會讓這一些流進來的土木工程的人員會更多啦。我看是這樣啦,是扭不進來啦。你不可能去把民間的都收到嗎?堅守你們讓人家民間扭他,差不多啦。你要把民間扭啦,那麼困難啦。我們來看一下。再講一個。勞動檢查人員的低薪跟環境惡劣,你看。\n\n20\n00:07:09,812 --> 00:07:32,284\n這裡媒體也報導囉官方訓練出師的職安專家都成為民間高薪挖角所以勞動部爭取加薪也補不滿啦近5年有300個勞檢員離開因為呢約聘、低薪、工作環境惡劣業界開高薪挖角根據你們自己提出的在今年的3月得到行政院得到的風險工程會你們呢把它提高到了5000跟3000你們認為這是編定的勞動檢查人員執行風險工作費的支給表當中能留得住嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:41,575 --> 00:08:02,309\n我覺得政府機關有時候在調,不可能一下子衝下去縮短嘛。你就縮短,把那個距離落差。但是今天遇到這種狀況,給你再參考一下美軍的做法。這也是我跟國防部了解的。美軍的新金制度,他們美國是怎麼說?他們美國的軍官的償費薪資呢,他用給大學畢業生全部全國去比,PR83啦。\n\n22\n00:08:06,152 --> 00:08:07,633\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具«行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案\n\n23\n00:08:24,574 --> 00:08:48,895\n所以我要告訴你有一個觀念我們過去呢假如說今天國防部他要去挖一個人一個技術的軍官在民間的不管是資訊的飛行的我們想說啊這個邊界是少校我用少校的最高性來挖你你覺得挖得動嗎如果他們去航空業去挖我跟你講美軍不是這樣挖美軍不是他說我這個技術人員我要挖你\n\n24\n00:08:49,912 --> 00:08:49,952\n二）委員\n\n25\n00:09:15,882 --> 00:09:20,049\n如果你的專長能力在美軍是要怎麼樣?中將還是上將?才能挖得動你?\n\n26\n00:09:23,140 --> 00:09:51,460\n你了解我的意思嗎?請你簡短回答因為時間的關係。我年紀老啊,應該挖不動了啦。好,你了解我的意思沒有?思維的方向不是以我們公務機關來做比較,要以人家在民間的薪酬的水準來對應來挖稅,最後只有三個要求啦。第一,請嚴育談點美國政府AI應用狀況,請他們將具可行性的相對應的業務呢,納入你的服務型智慧政府2.0的推動計畫,一個月內提供一個書面報告給本席,可以嗎?\n\n27\n00:09:55,496 --> 00:10:16,309\n此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分\n\n28\n00:10:21,055 --> 00:10:21,195\n三）委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7276\t13409\t主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府、金剛市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請蘇仁市長請蘇仁市長\n19287\t48246\t市長,我們這次我要講的是高階專才短期專案協助政府美軍的薪資制度可以解決我們長期的缺,讓您參考一下。來回顧一下,我在今年也不又上個月的時候,請教您跟蘇發部的次長,誰是政府導入AI的組織機關?你認為呢?是誰?則吳龐大就是數位發展部。好,是數位發展部,他今天不在。那成效由誰來管考?\n49585\t55807\t當然也是數位發展部,我們是負責訓練,這也是我們的責任。您說在業務上是由數位發展部主導,我們看下一頁。但是在經過這麼一個月我去看了一下,我發現人種很積極。\n66491\t79664\t美國政府也很積極,他在公共行政部門AI的應用狀況清單。他們有一個報告提到,他們不管是在環境社會福利,醫療保健交通,還有識別以及對退伍軍人的服務和樂島消營等等對於極端氣候。他們一共盤點了包括23個非軍事的機構,發布了200多個AI的使用方案。\n88852\t109996\t還有700多個AI的應用專正在開發裝中。你覺得人種相較於美國政府,你們有沒有很積極的也在希望協助各部門往AI,所謂的AI就是人工智慧,人工智慧大家所普遍的認知就可以節約或提高人力的運用效能,對不對?剛好人種就是負責人力的運用嘛,所以這也是你們投入AI的原因之一,是不是啊?\n110876\t134669\t我們最重要的是在訓練每一個公務人員都有AI的DNA也協助他們在業務上能夠精進讓他們在人事效率上應用更高是不是這樣當然好那所以你當我這樣舉例你覺得是不是需要去盤點一下參考一下美國政府在AI應用狀況的清單並研議相對應的業務導入AI的可行性你覺得值不值得參考\n135633\t155104\t我覺得委員整理這個資料非常棒我相信數位發展部的數位政府師應該是有證好你還是認為說雖然人事總署很積極但是政府的權責機關在行政院還是人還是出發不好但是我們看一下服務型的智慧政府2.0推動計畫這是不是人總在推的\n157140\t157160\t議員吳沛憶\n176058\t186758\t所以你們是不是也是可以剛剛我提供給你參考的美國政府的AI應用狀況清單的可行性,相對應的服務可以納入你們的服務型政府智慧政府2.0的推動計畫?\n189727\t215966\t你們還是講以人事為主嗎?我委員補充,他就像一大堆肉粽,肉粽頭是在數位發展部,那我們這個服務型智慧政府那是人事的,租給其他各個部位,我們的重點會在人事。但是人事部門,你們業務上只負責人事部門,但是所有政府部門人員的人事制度是你們主導嗎?包括他們的薪資結構,你們要來幫他們講話嗎?\n218288\t245617\t是。好。那我們來看一下下一頁。所以我們來看一下我們政府有一個跟美國政府一樣高階的技術專才他們是用短期專案來協助政府業務我們看到華爾街日報他一個報導美國的國防部要進行一個創新計畫去招募矽谷的高階技術專才以兼職的方式以中高階軍官的身份投入美軍的後備役協助網路安全跟數據分析很有趣美國的國防部他們的用人制度很靈活\n246517\t266716\t他們有可以從民間挖專材與護背役的方式他們有國民兵有這些的相關的制度那您覺得如果是用這個方式包括科技業以外啦物流啦航空啦你覺得我們台灣政府可不可以參考美軍去招募高階技術專材一短期專案來協助政府導入AI及協助網路安全和數據分析呢?\n267837\t288098\t我覺得有機會因為在訴發部底下有一個治安院那治安院是一個行政法人行政法人他可以比較靈活的去害這些人進來所以在你任總的立場來講其實你認為給訴發部當時在人事制度上就留有這樣的空間讓他去運用對嗎那你覺得他目前有充分的運用嗎\n291038\t308708\t他有在應用一些資安相關領域的一個study嗎?好 那我們來看一下但是我們要看人總啊自己本身你們自己發的齁我在7月的時候呢我問了一個說相同的能力之下心事待遇跟業界相仿才能保有優秀的公務員我還記得我那時候說的\n309568\t337465\t人總過去的思考都是說公務人員來互相比較我要提高這個人員的應用的這個機會留用他我把他跟其他公務員的薪資待遇相對拉高我有那時候跟您提過這是不夠的因為這些優優人才不是在公務機關互相比較他是跟民間部門跟他同樣技術能力的人的薪酬來互相比較你同不同意他們是這樣想非常同意好所以呢你看你們人總在提到說公務機關的工程人員\n338405\t352973\t只缺林卜不易所以你們就在7月31號得到行政院答覆你們工程裡面的待遇提升方增加了專業加給3000塊然後在工程獎金的留任獎金上從5500提高到16萬這是人總去爭取的嘛是不是\n354735\t355255\t吳沛憶等21人擬具\n374008\t377631\t十四點五,那就對了。但是我們來看一下實況上媒體的報導。不只你們要去跟民間部門搶財,七月也要跟公務門搶財,搶什麼人?搶土木專財,年薪兩百萬配車包租屋,他加倍的行情。他們認為什麼?如果說政府的標案多,他們業界缺人,他直接跟你行政機關挖啊,他所謂有行政機關更好啊。你覺得目前工程人員的待遇提升方案能夠追得上業界嗎?\n402032\t422007\t你們剛剛提出的這個方案能留得住專才嗎?有沒有辦法?我跟委員坦白的報告啦。這個扭開之後會讓這一些流進來的土木工程的人員會更多啦。我看是這樣啦,是扭不進來啦。你不可能去把民間的都收到嗎?堅守你們讓人家民間扭他,差不多啦。你要把民間扭啦,那麼困難啦。我們來看一下。再講一個。勞動檢查人員的低薪跟環境惡劣,你看。\n429812\t452284\t這裡媒體也報導囉官方訓練出師的職安專家都成為民間高薪挖角所以勞動部爭取加薪也補不滿啦近5年有300個勞檢員離開因為呢約聘、低薪、工作環境惡劣業界開高薪挖角根據你們自己提出的在今年的3月得到行政院得到的風險工程會你們呢把它提高到了5000跟3000你們認為這是編定的勞動檢查人員執行風險工作費的支給表當中能留得住嗎?\n461575\t482309\t我覺得政府機關有時候在調,不可能一下子衝下去縮短嘛。你就縮短,把那個距離落差。但是今天遇到這種狀況,給你再參考一下美軍的做法。這也是我跟國防部了解的。美軍的新金制度,他們美國是怎麼說?他們美國的軍官的償費薪資呢,他用給大學畢業生全部全國去比,PR83啦。\n486152\t487633\t議員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案\n504574\t528895\t所以我要告訴你有一個觀念我們過去呢假如說今天國防部他要去挖一個人一個技術的軍官在民間的不管是資訊的飛行的我們想說啊這個邊界是少校我用少校的最高性來挖你你覺得挖得動嗎如果他們去航空業去挖我跟你講美軍不是這樣挖美軍不是他說我這個技術人員我要挖你\n529912\t529952\t二）委員\n555882\t560049\t如果你的專長能力在美軍是要怎麼樣?中將還是上將?才能挖得動你?\n563140\t591460\t你了解我的意思嗎?請你簡短回答因為時間的關係。我年紀老啊,應該挖不動了啦。好,你了解我的意思沒有?思維的方向不是以我們公務機關來做比較,要以人家在民間的薪酬的水準來對應來挖稅,最後只有三個要求啦。第一,請嚴育談點美國政府AI應用狀況,請他們將具可行性的相對應的業務呢,納入你的服務型智慧政府2.0的推動計畫,一個月內提供一個書面報告給本席,可以嗎?\n595496\t616309\t此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分\n621055\t621195\t三）委員\n","txt":"主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府、金剛市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請蘇仁市長請蘇仁市長\n市長,我們這次我要講的是高階專才短期專案協助政府美軍的薪資制度可以解決我們長期的缺,讓您參考一下。來回顧一下,我在今年也不又上個月的時候,請教您跟蘇發部的次長,誰是政府導入AI的組織機關?你認為呢?是誰?則吳龐大就是數位發展部。好,是數位發展部,他今天不在。那成效由誰來管考?\n當然也是數位發展部,我們是負責訓練,這也是我們的責任。您說在業務上是由數位發展部主導,我們看下一頁。但是在經過這麼一個月我去看了一下,我發現人種很積極。\n美國政府也很積極,他在公共行政部門AI的應用狀況清單。他們有一個報告提到,他們不管是在環境社會福利,醫療保健交通,還有識別以及對退伍軍人的服務和樂島消營等等對於極端氣候。他們一共盤點了包括23個非軍事的機構,發布了200多個AI的使用方案。\n還有700多個AI的應用專正在開發裝中。你覺得人種相較於美國政府,你們有沒有很積極的也在希望協助各部門往AI,所謂的AI就是人工智慧,人工智慧大家所普遍的認知就可以節約或提高人力的運用效能,對不對?剛好人種就是負責人力的運用嘛,所以這也是你們投入AI的原因之一,是不是啊?\n我們最重要的是在訓練每一個公務人員都有AI的DNA也協助他們在業務上能夠精進讓他們在人事效率上應用更高是不是這樣當然好那所以你當我這樣舉例你覺得是不是需要去盤點一下參考一下美國政府在AI應用狀況的清單並研議相對應的業務導入AI的可行性你覺得值不值得參考\n我覺得委員整理這個資料非常棒我相信數位發展部的數位政府師應該是有證好你還是認為說雖然人事總署很積極但是政府的權責機關在行政院還是人還是出發不好但是我們看一下服務型的智慧政府2.0推動計畫這是不是人總在推的\n議員吳沛憶\n所以你們是不是也是可以剛剛我提供給你參考的美國政府的AI應用狀況清單的可行性,相對應的服務可以納入你們的服務型政府智慧政府2.0的推動計畫?\n你們還是講以人事為主嗎?我委員補充,他就像一大堆肉粽,肉粽頭是在數位發展部,那我們這個服務型智慧政府那是人事的,租給其他各個部位,我們的重點會在人事。但是人事部門,你們業務上只負責人事部門,但是所有政府部門人員的人事制度是你們主導嗎?包括他們的薪資結構,你們要來幫他們講話嗎?\n是。好。那我們來看一下下一頁。所以我們來看一下我們政府有一個跟美國政府一樣高階的技術專才他們是用短期專案來協助政府業務我們看到華爾街日報他一個報導美國的國防部要進行一個創新計畫去招募矽谷的高階技術專才以兼職的方式以中高階軍官的身份投入美軍的後備役協助網路安全跟數據分析很有趣美國的國防部他們的用人制度很靈活\n他們有可以從民間挖專材與護背役的方式他們有國民兵有這些的相關的制度那您覺得如果是用這個方式包括科技業以外啦物流啦航空啦你覺得我們台灣政府可不可以參考美軍去招募高階技術專材一短期專案來協助政府導入AI及協助網路安全和數據分析呢?\n我覺得有機會因為在訴發部底下有一個治安院那治安院是一個行政法人行政法人他可以比較靈活的去害這些人進來所以在你任總的立場來講其實你認為給訴發部當時在人事制度上就留有這樣的空間讓他去運用對嗎那你覺得他目前有充分的運用嗎\n他有在應用一些資安相關領域的一個study嗎?好 那我們來看一下但是我們要看人總啊自己本身你們自己發的齁我在7月的時候呢我問了一個說相同的能力之下心事待遇跟業界相仿才能保有優秀的公務員我還記得我那時候說的\n人總過去的思考都是說公務人員來互相比較我要提高這個人員的應用的這個機會留用他我把他跟其他公務員的薪資待遇相對拉高我有那時候跟您提過這是不夠的因為這些優優人才不是在公務機關互相比較他是跟民間部門跟他同樣技術能力的人的薪酬來互相比較你同不同意他們是這樣想非常同意好所以呢你看你們人總在提到說公務機關的工程人員\n只缺林卜不易所以你們就在7月31號得到行政院答覆你們工程裡面的待遇提升方增加了專業加給3000塊然後在工程獎金的留任獎金上從5500提高到16萬這是人總去爭取的嘛是不是\n吳沛憶等21人擬具\n十四點五,那就對了。但是我們來看一下實況上媒體的報導。不只你們要去跟民間部門搶財,七月也要跟公務門搶財,搶什麼人?搶土木專財,年薪兩百萬配車包租屋,他加倍的行情。他們認為什麼?如果說政府的標案多,他們業界缺人,他直接跟你行政機關挖啊,他所謂有行政機關更好啊。你覺得目前工程人員的待遇提升方案能夠追得上業界嗎?\n你們剛剛提出的這個方案能留得住專才嗎?有沒有辦法?我跟委員坦白的報告啦。這個扭開之後會讓這一些流進來的土木工程的人員會更多啦。我看是這樣啦,是扭不進來啦。你不可能去把民間的都收到嗎?堅守你們讓人家民間扭他,差不多啦。你要把民間扭啦,那麼困難啦。我們來看一下。再講一個。勞動檢查人員的低薪跟環境惡劣,你看。\n這裡媒體也報導囉官方訓練出師的職安專家都成為民間高薪挖角所以勞動部爭取加薪也補不滿啦近5年有300個勞檢員離開因為呢約聘、低薪、工作環境惡劣業界開高薪挖角根據你們自己提出的在今年的3月得到行政院得到的風險工程會你們呢把它提高到了5000跟3000你們認為這是編定的勞動檢查人員執行風險工作費的支給表當中能留得住嗎?\n我覺得政府機關有時候在調,不可能一下子衝下去縮短嘛。你就縮短,把那個距離落差。但是今天遇到這種狀況,給你再參考一下美軍的做法。這也是我跟國防部了解的。美軍的新金制度,他們美國是怎麼說?他們美國的軍官的償費薪資呢,他用給大學畢業生全部全國去比,PR83啦。\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案\n所以我要告訴你有一個觀念我們過去呢假如說今天國防部他要去挖一個人一個技術的軍官在民間的不管是資訊的飛行的我們想說啊這個邊界是少校我用少校的最高性來挖你你覺得挖得動嗎如果他們去航空業去挖我跟你講美軍不是這樣挖美軍不是他說我這個技術人員我要挖你\n二）委員\n如果你的專長能力在美軍是要怎麼樣?中將還是上將?才能挖得動你?\n你了解我的意思嗎?請你簡短回答因為時間的關係。我年紀老啊,應該挖不動了啦。好,你了解我的意思沒有?思維的方向不是以我們公務機關來做比較,要以人家在民間的薪酬的水準來對應來挖稅,最後只有三個要求啦。第一,請嚴育談點美國政府AI應用狀況,請他們將具可行性的相對應的業務呢,納入你的服務型智慧政府2.0的推動計畫,一個月內提供一個書面報告給本席,可以嗎?\n此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分\n三）委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.276 --> 00:13.409\n主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府、金剛市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請蘇仁市長請蘇仁市長\n\n00:19.287 --> 00:48.246\n市長,我們這次我要講的是高階專才短期專案協助政府美軍的薪資制度可以解決我們長期的缺,讓您參考一下。來回顧一下,我在今年也不又上個月的時候,請教您跟蘇發部的次長,誰是政府導入AI的組織機關?你認為呢?是誰?則吳龐大就是數位發展部。好,是數位發展部,他今天不在。那成效由誰來管考?\n\n00:49.585 --> 00:55.807\n當然也是數位發展部,我們是負責訓練,這也是我們的責任。您說在業務上是由數位發展部主導,我們看下一頁。但是在經過這麼一個月我去看了一下,我發現人種很積極。\n\n01:06.491 --> 01:19.664\n美國政府也很積極,他在公共行政部門AI的應用狀況清單。他們有一個報告提到,他們不管是在環境社會福利,醫療保健交通,還有識別以及對退伍軍人的服務和樂島消營等等對於極端氣候。他們一共盤點了包括23個非軍事的機構,發布了200多個AI的使用方案。\n\n01:28.852 --> 01:49.996\n還有700多個AI的應用專正在開發裝中。你覺得人種相較於美國政府,你們有沒有很積極的也在希望協助各部門往AI,所謂的AI就是人工智慧,人工智慧大家所普遍的認知就可以節約或提高人力的運用效能,對不對?剛好人種就是負責人力的運用嘛,所以這也是你們投入AI的原因之一,是不是啊?\n\n01:50.876 --> 02:14.669\n我們最重要的是在訓練每一個公務人員都有AI的DNA也協助他們在業務上能夠精進讓他們在人事效率上應用更高是不是這樣當然好那所以你當我這樣舉例你覺得是不是需要去盤點一下參考一下美國政府在AI應用狀況的清單並研議相對應的業務導入AI的可行性你覺得值不值得參考\n\n02:15.633 --> 02:35.104\n我覺得委員整理這個資料非常棒我相信數位發展部的數位政府師應該是有證好你還是認為說雖然人事總署很積極但是政府的權責機關在行政院還是人還是出發不好但是我們看一下服務型的智慧政府2.0推動計畫這是不是人總在推的\n\n02:37.140 --> 02:37.160\n議員吳沛憶\n\n02:56.058 --> 03:06.758\n所以你們是不是也是可以剛剛我提供給你參考的美國政府的AI應用狀況清單的可行性,相對應的服務可以納入你們的服務型政府智慧政府2.0的推動計畫?\n\n03:09.727 --> 03:35.966\n你們還是講以人事為主嗎?我委員補充,他就像一大堆肉粽,肉粽頭是在數位發展部,那我們這個服務型智慧政府那是人事的,租給其他各個部位,我們的重點會在人事。但是人事部門,你們業務上只負責人事部門,但是所有政府部門人員的人事制度是你們主導嗎?包括他們的薪資結構,你們要來幫他們講話嗎?\n\n03:38.288 --> 04:05.617\n是。好。那我們來看一下下一頁。所以我們來看一下我們政府有一個跟美國政府一樣高階的技術專才他們是用短期專案來協助政府業務我們看到華爾街日報他一個報導美國的國防部要進行一個創新計畫去招募矽谷的高階技術專才以兼職的方式以中高階軍官的身份投入美軍的後備役協助網路安全跟數據分析很有趣美國的國防部他們的用人制度很靈活\n\n04:06.517 --> 04:26.716\n他們有可以從民間挖專材與護背役的方式他們有國民兵有這些的相關的制度那您覺得如果是用這個方式包括科技業以外啦物流啦航空啦你覺得我們台灣政府可不可以參考美軍去招募高階技術專材一短期專案來協助政府導入AI及協助網路安全和數據分析呢?\n\n04:27.837 --> 04:48.098\n我覺得有機會因為在訴發部底下有一個治安院那治安院是一個行政法人行政法人他可以比較靈活的去害這些人進來所以在你任總的立場來講其實你認為給訴發部當時在人事制度上就留有這樣的空間讓他去運用對嗎那你覺得他目前有充分的運用嗎\n\n04:51.038 --> 05:08.708\n他有在應用一些資安相關領域的一個study嗎?好那我們來看一下但是我們要看人總啊自己本身你們自己發的齁我在7月的時候呢我問了一個說相同的能力之下心事待遇跟業界相仿才能保有優秀的公務員我還記得我那時候說的\n\n05:09.568 --> 05:37.465\n人總過去的思考都是說公務人員來互相比較我要提高這個人員的應用的這個機會留用他我把他跟其他公務員的薪資待遇相對拉高我有那時候跟您提過這是不夠的因為這些優優人才不是在公務機關互相比較他是跟民間部門跟他同樣技術能力的人的薪酬來互相比較你同不同意他們是這樣想非常同意好所以呢你看你們人總在提到說公務機關的工程人員\n\n05:38.405 --> 05:52.973\n只缺林卜不易所以你們就在7月31號得到行政院答覆你們工程裡面的待遇提升方增加了專業加給3000塊然後在工程獎金的留任獎金上從5500提高到16萬這是人總去爭取的嘛是不是\n\n05:54.735 --> 05:55.255\n吳沛憶等21人擬具\n\n06:14.008 --> 06:17.631\n十四點五,那就對了。但是我們來看一下實況上媒體的報導。不只你們要去跟民間部門搶財,七月也要跟公務門搶財,搶什麼人?搶土木專財,年薪兩百萬配車包租屋,他加倍的行情。他們認為什麼?如果說政府的標案多,他們業界缺人,他直接跟你行政機關挖啊,他所謂有行政機關更好啊。你覺得目前工程人員的待遇提升方案能夠追得上業界嗎?\n\n06:42.032 --> 07:02.007\n你們剛剛提出的這個方案能留得住專才嗎?有沒有辦法?我跟委員坦白的報告啦。這個扭開之後會讓這一些流進來的土木工程的人員會更多啦。我看是這樣啦,是扭不進來啦。你不可能去把民間的都收到嗎?堅守你們讓人家民間扭他,差不多啦。你要把民間扭啦,那麼困難啦。我們來看一下。再講一個。勞動檢查人員的低薪跟環境惡劣,你看。\n\n07:09.812 --> 07:32.284\n這裡媒體也報導囉官方訓練出師的職安專家都成為民間高薪挖角所以勞動部爭取加薪也補不滿啦近5年有300個勞檢員離開因為呢約聘、低薪、工作環境惡劣業界開高薪挖角根據你們自己提出的在今年的3月得到行政院得到的風險工程會你們呢把它提高到了5000跟3000你們認為這是編定的勞動檢查人員執行風險工作費的支給表當中能留得住嗎?\n\n07:41.575 --> 08:02.309\n我覺得政府機關有時候在調,不可能一下子衝下去縮短嘛。你就縮短,把那個距離落差。但是今天遇到這種狀況,給你再參考一下美軍的做法。這也是我跟國防部了解的。美軍的新金制度,他們美國是怎麼說?他們美國的軍官的償費薪資呢,他用給大學畢業生全部全國去比,PR83啦。\n\n08:06.152 --> 08:07.633\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具«行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案\n\n08:24.574 --> 08:48.895\n所以我要告訴你有一個觀念我們過去呢假如說今天國防部他要去挖一個人一個技術的軍官在民間的不管是資訊的飛行的我們想說啊這個邊界是少校我用少校的最高性來挖你你覺得挖得動嗎如果他們去航空業去挖我跟你講美軍不是這樣挖美軍不是他說我這個技術人員我要挖你\n\n08:49.912 --> 08:49.952\n二）委員\n\n09:15.882 --> 09:20.049\n如果你的專長能力在美軍是要怎麼樣?中將還是上將?才能挖得動你?\n\n09:23.140 --> 09:51.460\n你了解我的意思嗎?請你簡短回答因為時間的關係。我年紀老啊,應該挖不動了啦。好,你了解我的意思沒有?思維的方向不是以我們公務機關來做比較,要以人家在民間的薪酬的水準來對應來挖稅,最後只有三個要求啦。第一,請嚴育談點美國政府AI應用狀況,請他們將具可行性的相對應的業務呢,納入你的服務型智慧政府2.0的推動計畫,一個月內提供一個書面報告給本席,可以嗎?\n\n09:55.496 --> 10:16.309\n此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分\n\n10:21.055 --> 10:21.195\n三）委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.276,"end":13.409,"text":"主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政府、金剛市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請蘇仁市長請蘇仁市長"},{"start":19.287,"end":48.246,"text":"市長,我們這次我要講的是高階專才短期專案協助政府美軍的薪資制度可以解決我們長期的缺,讓您參考一下。來回顧一下,我在今年也不又上個月的時候,請教您跟蘇發部的次長,誰是政府導入AI的組織機關?你認為呢?是誰?則吳龐大就是數位發展部。好,是數位發展部,他今天不在。那成效由誰來管考?"},{"start":49.585,"end":55.807,"text":"當然也是數位發展部,我們是負責訓練,這也是我們的責任。您說在業務上是由數位發展部主導,我們看下一頁。但是在經過這麼一個月我去看了一下,我發現人種很積極。"},{"start":66.491,"end":79.664,"text":"美國政府也很積極,他在公共行政部門AI的應用狀況清單。他們有一個報告提到,他們不管是在環境社會福利,醫療保健交通,還有識別以及對退伍軍人的服務和樂島消營等等對於極端氣候。他們一共盤點了包括23個非軍事的機構,發布了200多個AI的使用方案。"},{"start":88.852,"end":109.996,"text":"還有700多個AI的應用專正在開發裝中。你覺得人種相較於美國政府,你們有沒有很積極的也在希望協助各部門往AI,所謂的AI就是人工智慧,人工智慧大家所普遍的認知就可以節約或提高人力的運用效能,對不對?剛好人種就是負責人力的運用嘛,所以這也是你們投入AI的原因之一,是不是啊?"},{"start":110.876,"end":134.669,"text":"我們最重要的是在訓練每一個公務人員都有AI的DNA也協助他們在業務上能夠精進讓他們在人事效率上應用更高是不是這樣當然好那所以你當我這樣舉例你覺得是不是需要去盤點一下參考一下美國政府在AI應用狀況的清單並研議相對應的業務導入AI的可行性你覺得值不值得參考"},{"start":135.633,"end":155.104,"text":"我覺得委員整理這個資料非常棒我相信數位發展部的數位政府師應該是有證好你還是認為說雖然人事總署很積極但是政府的權責機關在行政院還是人還是出發不好但是我們看一下服務型的智慧政府2.0推動計畫這是不是人總在推的"},{"start":157.14,"end":157.16,"text":"議員吳沛憶"},{"start":176.058,"end":186.758,"text":"所以你們是不是也是可以剛剛我提供給你參考的美國政府的AI應用狀況清單的可行性,相對應的服務可以納入你們的服務型政府智慧政府2.0的推動計畫?"},{"start":189.727,"end":215.966,"text":"你們還是講以人事為主嗎?我委員補充,他就像一大堆肉粽,肉粽頭是在數位發展部,那我們這個服務型智慧政府那是人事的,租給其他各個部位,我們的重點會在人事。但是人事部門,你們業務上只負責人事部門,但是所有政府部門人員的人事制度是你們主導嗎?包括他們的薪資結構,你們要來幫他們講話嗎?"},{"start":218.288,"end":245.617,"text":"是。好。那我們來看一下下一頁。所以我們來看一下我們政府有一個跟美國政府一樣高階的技術專才他們是用短期專案來協助政府業務我們看到華爾街日報他一個報導美國的國防部要進行一個創新計畫去招募矽谷的高階技術專才以兼職的方式以中高階軍官的身份投入美軍的後備役協助網路安全跟數據分析很有趣美國的國防部他們的用人制度很靈活"},{"start":246.517,"end":266.716,"text":"他們有可以從民間挖專材與護背役的方式他們有國民兵有這些的相關的制度那您覺得如果是用這個方式包括科技業以外啦物流啦航空啦你覺得我們台灣政府可不可以參考美軍去招募高階技術專材一短期專案來協助政府導入AI及協助網路安全和數據分析呢?"},{"start":267.837,"end":288.098,"text":"我覺得有機會因為在訴發部底下有一個治安院那治安院是一個行政法人行政法人他可以比較靈活的去害這些人進來所以在你任總的立場來講其實你認為給訴發部當時在人事制度上就留有這樣的空間讓他去運用對嗎那你覺得他目前有充分的運用嗎"},{"start":291.038,"end":308.708,"text":"他有在應用一些資安相關領域的一個study嗎?好 那我們來看一下但是我們要看人總啊自己本身你們自己發的齁我在7月的時候呢我問了一個說相同的能力之下心事待遇跟業界相仿才能保有優秀的公務員我還記得我那時候說的"},{"start":309.568,"end":337.465,"text":"人總過去的思考都是說公務人員來互相比較我要提高這個人員的應用的這個機會留用他我把他跟其他公務員的薪資待遇相對拉高我有那時候跟您提過這是不夠的因為這些優優人才不是在公務機關互相比較他是跟民間部門跟他同樣技術能力的人的薪酬來互相比較你同不同意他們是這樣想非常同意好所以呢你看你們人總在提到說公務機關的工程人員"},{"start":338.405,"end":352.973,"text":"只缺林卜不易所以你們就在7月31號得到行政院答覆你們工程裡面的待遇提升方增加了專業加給3000塊然後在工程獎金的留任獎金上從5500提高到16萬這是人總去爭取的嘛是不是"},{"start":354.735,"end":355.255,"text":"吳沛憶等21人擬具"},{"start":374.008,"end":377.631,"text":"十四點五,那就對了。但是我們來看一下實況上媒體的報導。不只你們要去跟民間部門搶財,七月也要跟公務門搶財,搶什麼人?搶土木專財,年薪兩百萬配車包租屋,他加倍的行情。他們認為什麼?如果說政府的標案多,他們業界缺人,他直接跟你行政機關挖啊,他所謂有行政機關更好啊。你覺得目前工程人員的待遇提升方案能夠追得上業界嗎?"},{"start":402.032,"end":422.007,"text":"你們剛剛提出的這個方案能留得住專才嗎?有沒有辦法?我跟委員坦白的報告啦。這個扭開之後會讓這一些流進來的土木工程的人員會更多啦。我看是這樣啦,是扭不進來啦。你不可能去把民間的都收到嗎?堅守你們讓人家民間扭他,差不多啦。你要把民間扭啦,那麼困難啦。我們來看一下。再講一個。勞動檢查人員的低薪跟環境惡劣,你看。"},{"start":429.812,"end":452.284,"text":"這裡媒體也報導囉官方訓練出師的職安專家都成為民間高薪挖角所以勞動部爭取加薪也補不滿啦近5年有300個勞檢員離開因為呢約聘、低薪、工作環境惡劣業界開高薪挖角根據你們自己提出的在今年的3月得到行政院得到的風險工程會你們呢把它提高到了5000跟3000你們認為這是編定的勞動檢查人員執行風險工作費的支給表當中能留得住嗎?"},{"start":461.575,"end":482.309,"text":"我覺得政府機關有時候在調,不可能一下子衝下去縮短嘛。你就縮短,把那個距離落差。但是今天遇到這種狀況,給你再參考一下美軍的做法。這也是我跟國防部了解的。美軍的新金制度,他們美國是怎麼說?他們美國的軍官的償費薪資呢,他用給大學畢業生全部全國去比,PR83啦。"},{"start":486.152,"end":487.633,"text":"議員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案"},{"start":504.574,"end":528.895,"text":"所以我要告訴你有一個觀念我們過去呢假如說今天國防部他要去挖一個人一個技術的軍官在民間的不管是資訊的飛行的我們想說啊這個邊界是少校我用少校的最高性來挖你你覺得挖得動嗎如果他們去航空業去挖我跟你講美軍不是這樣挖美軍不是他說我這個技術人員我要挖你"},{"start":529.912,"end":529.952,"text":"二）委員"},{"start":555.882,"end":560.049,"text":"如果你的專長能力在美軍是要怎麼樣?中將還是上將?才能挖得動你?"},{"start":563.14,"end":591.46,"text":"你了解我的意思嗎?請你簡短回答因為時間的關係。我年紀老啊,應該挖不動了啦。好,你了解我的意思沒有?思維的方向不是以我們公務機關來做比較,要以人家在民間的薪酬的水準來對應來挖稅,最後只有三個要求啦。第一,請嚴育談點美國政府AI應用狀況,請他們將具可行性的相對應的業務呢,納入你的服務型智慧政府2.0的推動計畫,一個月內提供一個書面報告給本席,可以嗎?"},{"start":595.496,"end":616.309,"text":"此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分析的可行性,也提出一個參考方案。此外,仿照美軍招募高階技術專才與短期專案協助政委導入AI及協助網路安全數據分"},{"start":621.055,"end":621.195,"text":"三）委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":598,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（10時12分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場的工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請蘇人事長。"],["主席：請蘇人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：召委早。"],["鍾委員佳濱：人事長早。這次我要講的是高階專才短期專案協助政府，美軍的薪資制度可以解決我們長期的缺額，讓您參考一下。先來回顧一下，我在上個月的時候曾請教您跟數發部的次長，誰是政府導入AI的主責機關，你認為呢？是誰？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：責無旁貸就是數位發展部。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，是數位發展部，但他今天不在。那麼成效由誰來管考？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：當然也是數位發展部。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也是數位發展部？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們是負責訓練，這個是我們的責任，也不容推掉。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好！您說在業務上是由數發部主導，但是經過了這麼一個月，我去看了一下，我發現人總很積極，美國政府也很積極，他的公共行政部門AI應用狀況清單，他們有一個報告提到，不管是在環境、社會福利、醫療保健、交通、識別專利申請，以及對退伍軍人提供服務和研究熱島效應以防治極端氣候等等，他們一共盤點了23個非軍事機構，發布了二百多個AI使用方案，還有七百多個AI應用專案正在開發當中。你覺得人總相較於美國政府，你們有沒有很積極的也在希望協助各部門往AI，所謂的AI就是人工智慧，人工智慧大家所普遍的認知就是可以節約或提高人力的運用效能，對不對？剛好人總就是負責人力的運用，所以這也是你們投入AI的原因之一，是不是？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們最重要的是在訓練每一個公務人員都有AI的DNA。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也協助他們在業務上能夠精進，讓他們在人事效率上應用更高，是不是這樣？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：當然。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那你看到我這樣的舉例，你覺得是不是需要去盤點一下，參考美國政府AI應用狀況清單，並研議相對應的業務導入AI的可行性？你覺得值不值得參考？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我覺得委員整理的這個資料非常棒，我相信數位發展部的數位政府司應該是有做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，雖然人事總處很積極，但是你還是認為政府的權責機關在行政院還是數發部。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們來看一下，服務型智慧政府2.0推動計畫是不是人總在推的？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這一個計畫是人總的，我們的客戶群主要是針對全國八千多位人事人員……"],["鍾委員佳濱：人事人員？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，人事人員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你們是認為政府內的人事部門，對此，你們編了三億七千多萬，最後一年是編了六千多萬，對不對？所以你們是不是也可以盤點剛剛我提供給你參考的美國政府AI應用狀況清單，並將可行性對應的相關業務納入你們的服務型智慧政府2.0推動計畫？你們還是以人事為主嘛！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告，那個就像是一串肉粽，肉粽頭是在數位發展部，我們這個服務型智慧政府是人事的，還有給其他各個部會……"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你是負責人事部門就對了。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，我們的重點會在人事。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們在業務上只負責人事部門，但是所有政府部門人員的人事制度是你們主導嘛，包括他們的薪資結構，你們要來幫他們講話嘛。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們來看一下，我們政府有一個跟美國政府一樣，高階的技術專才是用短期專案來協助政府業務，我們看到華爾街日報的一個報導，美國國防部要進行一個創新計畫，去招募矽谷的高階技術專才，以兼職中高階軍官的身分投入美軍的後備役，協助網路安全跟數據分析。很有趣喔，美國國防部的用人制度很靈活，他們可以從民間挖專才以後備役的方式，他們有國民兵，有這些的相關制度，那您覺得，如果用這個方式，包括科技業以外的物流、航空，你覺得我們臺灣政府可不可以參考美軍招募高階技術專才的方式，以短期專案協助政府導入AI及協助網路安全和數據分析呢？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我覺得有機會，因為在數發部底下有一個資安院，資安院是一個行政法人，行政法人可以比較靈活地去聘用這些人進來服務。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以在人總的立場來講，你認為當時就給數發部在人事制度上留有這樣的空間去運用，對嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對啊……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你覺得它目前有充分的運用嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：它有在應用一些資安相關領域的研發……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們來看一下，我們來看人總自己本身所發的，我在7月的時候問了一個問題，在相同的能力之下，薪資待遇跟業界相仿，才能保有優秀的公務員。我還記得我那時候說的，人總過去的思考都是說公務人員互相比較，我要提高人員的應用機會、留用他，我就把他跟其他公務員的薪資待遇相對拉高，我那時候有跟您提過這是不夠的，因為這些優秀人才不是在公務機關互相比較，他是跟民間部門、跟他同樣技術能力的人的薪酬來互相比較，你同不同意他們是這樣想？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我非常同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以你看，你們人總提到，公務機關的工程人員職缺遴補不易，所以你們在7月31號得到行政院的答復，你們工程人員的待遇提升方案增加了專業加給3,000塊，然後在工程人員留任獎金上，從5萬5,000元提高到16萬，這是人總去爭取的嘛，是不是？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那你覺得這樣有沒有達到效果？夠不夠？幅度夠不夠？增加3,000塊。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告，一個月多三千多，一年就多四萬多，再加那個16萬……"],["鍾委員佳濱：一年沒有啦，一年只有多36,000啦！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：還有獎金那一類的啦，就乘以14.5啊！"],["鍾委員佳濱：OK，乘以14.5那就對了啦。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：差不多就有四萬多了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我們來看一下實況上媒體的報導，不只你們要去跟民間部門搶才，企業也會跟公部門搶才，搶什麼人？搶土木專才，年薪200萬、配車、包租屋，都是加倍的行情，他們認為如果政府的標案多，他們業界缺人，就直接向你行政機關挖啊，如果有行政經驗的更好啊，你覺得目前工程人員的待遇提升方案能夠追得上業界嗎？你們剛剛提出的這個方案能留得住專才嗎？有沒有辦法？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員坦白的報告啦，這個拉上來之後，會讓這些流進來的土木工程人員更多啦！"],["鍾委員佳濱：我看是這樣啦，是拉不進來啦！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：你也不可能去跟民間搶人啊！"],["鍾委員佳濱：減少你們的人讓民間拉去還差不多啦，你想要從民間拉人過來比較困難啦！","我們再講一個，勞動檢查人員低薪跟工作環境惡劣，這個媒體也有報導囉，官方訓練出師的職安專家都成為民間高薪挖角對象，所以勞動部爭取加薪也補不滿啦！近5年有300位勞檢員離開，因為約聘低薪、工作環境惡劣，加上業界開高薪挖角。根據你們自己提出的，在今年3月得到行政院的風險工程費，你們把它提高5,000元跟3,000元，你們認為訂定「勞動檢查人員執行風險工作費支給表」的風險工作費就能留得住嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我覺得政府機關有時候在調是不可能一下子衝得很高嘛，就是縮短，把那個距離、落差縮短……"],["鍾委員佳濱：瞭解，但是今天遇到這種狀況，給你再參考一下美軍的作法，這也是我跟國防部了解的，美軍的薪津制度，美國是怎麼做的？美國軍官的常備薪津，他用給大學畢業生全部、全國去比，是PR83，也就是說，他們國防部要找大學畢業來任軍官的，是全國大學畢業生就職行情的PR83，也就是最前面的17%，很高喔！如果是士官兵，跟相同學歷能力的相比則是90%。所以我要告訴你一個觀念，假如今天國防部要去挖一個人，一個在民間的技術軍官，不管是資訊的或飛行的，我們想說這個編階是少校，我就用少校的最高薪來挖他，你覺得挖得動嗎？如果他們去航空業挖，我跟你講，美軍不是這樣挖的，他說我要挖你這個技術人員，你在民間的行情是多少，回推過來，在我們內部的薪水是上校的薪水，我挖你過來你就是上校。你知道我的意思嗎？技術軍官是不帶兵的，他不是指揮軍官，所以他要掛少校還是上校，是先決定他的技術在民間的薪資行情，然後對照我軍方的薪資行情，如果他這個薪水要上校的薪水，他就是上校。所以人事長，你的專長能力在美軍是要中將還是上將才能挖得動你？你了解我的意思嗎？請簡短回答，因為時間的關係。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我年紀大了，應該挖不動了啦！"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你了解我的意思嗎？思維的方向不是以公務機關來做比較，而是要以人家在民間的薪酬水準對應來挖。","所以最後我只有三個要求，第一，請研議「盤點美國政府AI應用狀況清單並將具可行性之對應相關業務納入服務型智慧政府2.0推動計畫」之方案，並於一個月內提供書面報告給本席，可以嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們來努力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。另外，請評估「仿照美軍招募高階技術專才以短期專案協助政府導入AI及協助網路安全和數據分析」之可行性，也提出一個參考的方案，可以嗎？我都幫你把資料找好了。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這個我會請數位發展部來協助。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，你堅持這個是數位發展部的。最後，請評估「長期缺額之單位參考美軍薪津制度能有效填補缺額並增加續任意願」之可行性，這個就是你們需要的，這個可以做吧？參考一下這個方法。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們寫一個評估報告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：用薪水來挖人，而不是用你現有的職缺來挖人，可以嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請羅智強委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-13","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","陳俊宇","沈發惠","林思銘","吳思瑤","羅智強","莊瑞雄","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","王鴻薇","林倩綺","謝龍介"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"11310001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員徐富癸等\n17人擬具「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「行政院組織法\n第三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 四) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」\n案、(五)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員\n陳冠廷等17人擬具「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員范雲等16人擬具「行政院\n組織法第三條條文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院、考試院函請審議「中央行政機關組\n織基準法第二十九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中央行政機關\n組織基準法第二十九條及第三十三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「中央行政\n機關組織基準法第二十九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「中央\n行政機關組織基準法第二十九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等\n16人擬具「中央行政機關組織基準法第二十九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員陳冠\n廷等16人擬具「中央行政機關組織基準法第二十九條條文修正草案」案；三、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管收支部分；四、審查 114年度中央政府總預算\n案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院人事行政總處主管「中央公教人員急難救助基金」收支部\n分【第三、四案僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11310001_00001"}}}