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\"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"誠\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 763.788, \"end\": 763.808, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:00,349\n請央行楊總裁\n\n2\n00:00:16,164 --> 00:00:40,671\n好謝謝總裁我想今天的幾個最近這段時間的所有媒體大標都還是在談川普強勢回歸到白宮之後整個全世界因應川普2.0這個會期有未來整個經濟局勢、國內的變化當然台灣也不可能免除以外今天我看到媒體有一個大標寫強勢回歸的川普台積電對白宮沒有說不的權利\n\n3\n00:00:43,112 --> 00:01:05,526\n對台灣來說不只台積電恐怕有更多的議題我們恐怕被動式的恐怕要去做後續的因應跟處理所以看到你的簡報當中但是我必須還是要提醒剛才無論是回應吳秉瑞委員就是說今年的我們的跟美國的順差其實那個數字其實要非常的精確因為所有的評估報告來自於\n\n4\n00:01:06,968 --> 00:01:22,066\n的數字,我們到今年年底恐怕都會超過這個650億美金左右而且這個是這個數字是川普當時就任第一任的超過10倍以上以川普如果看到這個數字\n\n5\n00:01:24,108 --> 00:01:44,484\n我就要跟總裁提一下以川普看到這樣的數字他可能第一關稅一定要加軍購一定要多買無論保護費或關稅的部分所以這件事情我看到總裁你有提到就是說在簡報裡面有提到說後續包括我們處理\n\n6\n00:01:46,205 --> 00:02:11,591\n我們貿易對美貿易順差的狀況我們有幾個方向農產品、能源政策還有我們的軍購的部分那軍購的部分那你覺得應該買多少才是一個合理因為川普要的是GDP佔10%啊那我們每一年我們的總預算才2兆多今年有3兆多10%的話就將近2.678兆左右那\n\n7\n00:02:16,209 --> 00:02:36,371\n你覺得多少才是合理的?我不是這一方面的專家所以我也沒辦法很抱歉我沒辦法來回答但是總裁你提這三個方向那你應該有一些具體的想法因為這三項目標沒有達到可能我們就會變成\n\n8\n00:02:37,933 --> 00:02:42,814\n川普口中的我們是匯率操縱國我們目前匯率操縱國的三大要件檢視的標準無論是美商有三大標準對美商的服務貿易的順差如果超過150億美元還有包括我們經常這樣的順差GDP比率超過3%有三項我們已經超過兩項了\n\n9\n00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:08,903\n所以我們隨便就會變成被指控我們是貿易操縱我們是匯率操縱我這樣講沒錯如果看這三個指標的話你怎麼不會川普他說他看這三個數字你就是超過你怎麼不會我只有兩個而已啊現在我們只有兩個而已啊\n\n10\n00:03:22,268 --> 00:03:24,349\n我們還沒有三個阿你覺得你跟他有這樣討價還價的餘地嗎?沒有,不是你剛才跟回答賴世保委員說你跟拜登政府的財政部部長很熟但是你跟川普的財政部部長\n\n11\n00:03:39,073 --> 00:03:39,953\n我剛剛沒有講這句話我就說我們跟美國的財政部會就這個匯率報告我們每年大概會有兩次的諮商\n\n12\n00:03:54,686 --> 00:04:19,257\n我沒有就說我每年就會...總裁沒關係總裁因為我時間很短今天議題很重要媒體也都在關注新的政府上任有新的財政部長被升特我不知道你未來還有沒有機會維持什麼一年兩次以川普他的美國優先主義他的貿易保護政策未來是一個什麼樣的狀況全球各國的金融界\n\n13\n00:04:20,658 --> 00:04:45,289\n其實都是一邊哀嚎也在準備各式各樣的方案所以我剛才才說不要太過有自信你現在覺得說我匯率操縱國三項指標我只有兩項我沒有第三項川普哪輪到你說你只有兩項沒有三項他恐怕輪不到你這樣子講所以你提到我們目前今年貿易的順差已經對美已經超過到年底已經超過650億美元\n\n14\n00:04:47,190 --> 00:05:06,688\n我們的因應方式如果達不到因為從昨天顧立雄國防部部長回應說我們也不可能超過3%GDP我們買軍購不可能超過3%因為沒有錢農產品我們要買小黃玉國人也沒有能力我們人也不夠多也能買的也有限能源政策\n\n15\n00:05:07,409 --> 00:05:25,582\n我們更有對其他國家我不知道這可能有很多的國與國之間的不同的思考在裡面其實能買能不能買這麼多所以很多事情不是你說了算我們想說了算所以目前三項匯率操縱國有兩項就在裡面所以我問你怎麼辦\n\n16\n00:05:27,372 --> 00:05:30,375\n你的因應策略什麼處理?當然啦,就是說,第一個,這兩項都是比較辛苦的啦。第一個就是說,我們要對美國的順差要把它降低下來。但是呢,問題是在於就是說,因為美國對我們的自動性產品它就很需要啊。它很需要,它只有我們台灣有啊。\n\n17\n00:05:49,625 --> 00:06:14,078\n總裁你講這些我都知道所以我問你怎麼辦你今天來這邊是回答我怎麼辦這個所以呢也就是說我們我就說事實上呢也不是說川普的時代我們沒有跟他諮商過事實上川普上任的四年我們也是幾乎是每年兩次跟他諮商川普的川普再強勢回白宮我相信跟第一任也有可能不一樣應該會不一樣是啦是啦沒有錯啦沒有錯啦我們也沒有就是說錯就是一樣的\n\n18\n00:06:18,161 --> 00:06:32,298\n所以你的因應策略是什麼你還是沒有回應我啊那當然啦就是說第一項呢這個就是說我們必須要就是說如何降低下來而且呢要磋商磋商也沒辦法就是說專業來來跟他磋商為什麼因為那是貿易的問題\n\n19\n00:06:36,182 --> 00:06:55,563\n總裁我聽到最後我覺得你都是沒有辦法好那我再問你一個問題當時台積電張忠謀提兩年前的時候提到說全球化的貿易已經死了那當時你覺得說他提的非常極端可能應該不是這樣子那你覺得川普在強勢回白宮之後對全球的貿易化\n\n20\n00:06:57,352 --> 00:07:25,281\n已經死了這句話你現在還有不同的看法嗎?我總覺得可能會再更碎片化如果說是Globalization就是說因為Globalization、De-Globalization就是說是去全球化事實上這是一個程度的問題那死掉的意思呢我可能我都把它解讀很極端就是說就沒有全球化就沒有彼此就是說大家只有彼此互相來貿易\n\n21\n00:07:27,101 --> 00:07:28,642\n我跟委員報告事實上我們的廠商他的因應能力很好的\n\n22\n00:07:47,346 --> 00:07:47,806\n二、審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n\n23\n00:08:03,379 --> 00:08:03,899\n不不不不不不不\n\n24\n00:08:22,006 --> 00:08:24,368\n所以我請問你到底我們現在面對川普在強勢回白宮之後\n\n25\n00:08:42,057 --> 00:09:02,595\n你覺得我們到底要注意什麼?你覺得它跟第一任最大的不同接下來會是什麼?你看到的,你有看到你才有辦法因應嗎?對啦,不過我們的因應就是說救中央銀行我只能就是說救我們中央銀行的因應啊那所以呢我們就是提出了三個衝擊那然後呢我們三個因應嘛\n\n26\n00:09:03,255 --> 00:09:09,277\n你三個硬硬沒有辦法解決我剛剛請問過農產品、軍購、電燃器所以這個是跨部會要開的一個硬硬隊所以今天張偉很聰明很有智慧排了這樣的議題啊所以這就是灰犀牛的效應我非常遺憾今天我們排了一個這麼重要的議題我相信\n\n27\n00:09:31,864 --> 00:09:38,010\n國安部、外交部、輪委會其他的部會呢都是在密切的注意川普的一個貿易政策之後呢要怎麼來因應那就中央銀行的一個立場呢我們第一個就是說他對我們台灣經濟的衝擊會是什麼樣對我們的金融市場的經濟是什麼樣我現在看的是灰犀牛的效應我們的政府提不出指出更好的方式跟方法我目前沒看\n\n28\n00:09:59,428 --> 00:10:03,170\n主委部長對外的因應方式我很遺憾剛才沒看到對內的因應方式我們的這個金融營業稅的部分因為財經財經\n\n29\n00:10:27,105 --> 00:10:54,241\n之前我們都覺得我們的金融營業稅的部分因為我們金融業體質非常好是好學生在我看來其實因為他沒有進扣的抵稅額所以齊頭市的平等5%的營業稅叫做齊頭市的不平等我是這樣看因為他沒有進扣的可以抵扣的這個項目部長我是這樣子看那但是部長回應說今年不調降因為體質很好我在我看來就是懲罰好學生\n\n30\n00:10:55,758 --> 00:11:13,537\n這其實不好的你有機會調降但是我們現在面臨到我們現在金融業接下來全球都在因應挑戰包括OECD國家也都是他們甚至把它調降甚至有些是歸零調整為零所以前一陣子你回應說部長說金融業稅不調降還是5%你說尊重\n\n31\n00:11:17,079 --> 00:11:44,589\n我覺得前段時間可以說尊重啦但是因為我今天時間已經到了我還是要提醒金融營業稅的部分我覺得因應全球不同的變化跟狀況我覺得應該要做階段性的思考過去面對全球金融衝擊在2012年的時候雷曼風暴我們好像有調整為零或甚至調到兩趴那接下來的狀況我希望部長、主委在現場\n\n32\n00:11:46,328 --> 00:11:52,344\n有沒有可能有一些彈性是不同的變化我們把金融一頁稅放一些彈性未來去做評估\n\n33\n00:11:53,820 --> 00:12:16,441\n部長你先回應因為是你強勢的說一定要5%在我看來齊頭市的公平就是叫做不公平跟委員報告金融營業稅原來是有2%要歸到金融業特別準備金那到今年落日了所以在稅率上目前來說就是5%也就是其實金融業只有銀保本業的部分是5%那所以這個部分金融營業稅這個部分並沒有規劃要調降是\n\n34\n00:12:19,364 --> 00:12:42,106\n那當然委員剛剛提醒說整個國際局勢的一些整整變化等等那未來我們會當然也會持續和金管會一起來觀察國際整個情勢的一個變動影響好我最後10秒主委不要忘記你今天來的目的其實你從產業界你可能看到的問題更多你過去的初衷是什麼我覺得要堅持\n\n35\n00:12:42,907 --> 00:12:43,808\n李坤誠委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t349\t請央行楊總裁\n16164\t40671\t好 謝謝總裁我想今天的幾個最近這段時間的所有媒體大標都還是在談川普強勢回歸到白宮之後整個全世界因應川普2.0這個會期有未來整個經濟局勢、國內的變化當然台灣也不可能免除以外今天我看到媒體有一個大標寫強勢回歸的川普台積電對白宮沒有說不的權利\n43112\t65526\t對台灣來說不只台積電恐怕有更多的議題我們恐怕被動式的恐怕要去做後續的因應跟處理所以看到你的簡報當中但是我必須還是要提醒剛才無論是回應吳秉瑞委員就是說今年的我們的跟美國的順差其實那個數字其實要非常的精確因為所有的評估報告來自於\n66968\t82066\t的數字,我們到今年年底恐怕都會超過這個650億美金左右而且這個是這個數字是川普當時就任第一任的超過10倍以上以川普如果看到這個數字\n84108\t104484\t我就要跟總裁提一下以川普看到這樣的數字他可能第一關稅一定要加軍購一定要多買無論保護費或關稅的部分所以這件事情我看到總裁你有提到就是說在簡報裡面有提到說後續包括我們處理\n106205\t131591\t我們貿易對美貿易順差的狀況我們有幾個方向農產品、能源政策還有我們的軍購的部分那軍購的部分那你覺得應該買多少才是一個合理因為川普要的是GDP佔10%啊那我們每一年我們的總預算才2兆多今年有3兆多10%的話就將近2.678兆左右那\n136209\t156371\t你覺得多少才是合理的?我不是這一方面的專家所以我也沒辦法很抱歉我沒辦法來回答但是總裁你提這三個方向那你應該有一些具體的想法因為這三項目標沒有達到可能我們就會變成\n157933\t162814\t川普口中的我們是匯率操縱國我們目前匯率操縱國的三大要件檢視的標準無論是美商有三大標準對美商的服務貿易的順差如果超過150億美元還有包括我們經常這樣的順差GDP比率超過3%有三項我們已經超過兩項了\n182240\t188903\t所以我們隨便就會變成被指控我們是貿易操縱我們是匯率操縱我這樣講沒錯如果看這三個指標的話你怎麼不會川普他說他看這三個數字你就是超過你怎麼不會我只有兩個而已啊現在我們只有兩個而已啊\n202268\t204349\t我們還沒有三個阿你覺得你跟他有這樣討價還價的餘地嗎?沒有,不是你剛才跟回答賴世保委員說你跟拜登政府的財政部部長很熟但是你跟川普的財政部部長\n219073\t219953\t我剛剛沒有講這句話我就說我們跟美國的財政部會就這個匯率報告我們每年大概會有兩次的諮商\n234686\t259257\t我沒有就說我每年就會...總裁沒關係總裁因為我時間很短今天議題很重要媒體也都在關注新的政府上任有新的財政部長被升特我不知道你未來還有沒有機會維持什麼一年兩次以川普他的美國優先主義他的貿易保護政策未來是一個什麼樣的狀況全球各國的金融界\n260658\t285289\t其實都是一邊哀嚎也在準備各式各樣的方案所以我剛才才說不要太過有自信你現在覺得說我匯率操縱國三項指標我只有兩項我沒有第三項川普哪輪到你說你只有兩項沒有三項他恐怕輪不到你這樣子講所以你提到我們目前今年貿易的順差已經對美已經超過到年底已經超過650億美元\n287190\t306688\t我們的因應方式如果達不到因為從昨天顧立雄國防部部長回應說我們也不可能超過3%GDP我們買軍購不可能超過3%因為沒有錢農產品我們要買小黃玉國人也沒有能力我們人也不夠多也能買的也有限能源政策\n307409\t325582\t我們更有對其他國家我不知道這可能有很多的國與國之間的不同的思考在裡面其實能買能不能買這麼多所以很多事情不是你說了算我們想說了算所以目前三項匯率操縱國有兩項就在裡面所以我問你怎麼辦\n327372\t330375\t你的因應策略什麼處理?當然啦,就是說,第一個,這兩項都是比較辛苦的啦。第一個就是說,我們要對美國的順差要把它降低下來。但是呢,問題是在於就是說,因為美國對我們的自動性產品它就很需要啊。它很需要,它只有我們台灣有啊。\n349625\t374078\t總裁你講這些我都知道所以我問你怎麼辦你今天來這邊是回答我怎麼辦這個所以呢也就是說我們我就說事實上呢也不是說川普的時代我們沒有跟他諮商過事實上川普上任的四年我們也是幾乎是每年兩次跟他諮商川普的川普再強勢回白宮我相信跟第一任也有可能不一樣應該會不一樣是啦是啦沒有錯啦沒有錯啦我們也沒有就是說錯就是一樣的\n378161\t392298\t所以你的因應策略是什麼你還是沒有回應我啊那當然啦就是說第一項呢這個就是說我們必須要就是說如何降低下來而且呢要磋商磋商也沒辦法就是說專業來來跟他磋商為什麼因為那是貿易的問題\n396182\t415563\t總裁我聽到最後我覺得你都是沒有辦法好那我再問你一個問題當時台積電張忠謀提兩年前的時候提到說全球化的貿易已經死了那當時你覺得說他提的非常極端可能應該不是這樣子那你覺得川普在強勢回白宮之後對全球的貿易化\n417352\t445281\t已經死了這句話你現在還有不同的看法嗎?我總覺得可能會再更碎片化如果說是Globalization就是說因為Globalization、De-Globalization就是說是去全球化事實上這是一個程度的問題那死掉的意思呢我可能我都把它解讀很極端就是說就沒有全球化就沒有彼此就是說大家只有彼此互相來貿易\n447101\t448642\t我跟委員報告事實上我們的廠商他的因應能力很好的\n467346\t467806\t二、審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n483379\t483899\t不不不不不不不\n502006\t504368\t所以我請問你到底我們現在面對川普在強勢回白宮之後\n522057\t542595\t你覺得我們到底要注意什麼?你覺得它跟第一任最大的不同接下來會是什麼?你看到的,你有看到你才有辦法因應嗎?對啦,不過我們的因應就是說救中央銀行我只能就是說救我們中央銀行的因應啊那所以呢我們就是提出了三個衝擊那然後呢我們三個因應嘛\n543255\t549277\t你三個硬硬沒有辦法解決我剛剛請問過農產品、軍購、電燃器所以這個是跨部會要開的一個硬硬隊所以今天張偉很聰明很有智慧排了這樣的議題啊所以這就是灰犀牛的效應我非常遺憾今天我們排了一個這麼重要的議題我相信\n571864\t578010\t國安部、外交部、輪委會其他的部會呢都是在密切的注意川普的一個貿易政策之後呢要怎麼來因應那就中央銀行的一個立場呢我們第一個就是說他對我們台灣經濟的衝擊會是什麼樣對我們的金融市場的經濟是什麼樣我現在看的是灰犀牛的效應我們的政府提不出指出更好的方式跟方法我目前沒看\n599428\t603170\t主委部長對外的因應方式我很遺憾剛才沒看到對內的因應方式我們的這個金融營業稅的部分因為財經財經\n627105\t654241\t之前我們都覺得我們的金融營業稅的部分因為我們金融業體質非常好是好學生在我看來其實因為他沒有進扣的抵稅額所以齊頭市的平等5%的營業稅叫做齊頭市的不平等我是這樣看因為他沒有進扣的可以抵扣的這個項目部長我是這樣子看那但是部長回應說今年不調降因為體質很好我在我看來就是懲罰好學生\n655758\t673537\t這其實不好的你有機會調降但是我們現在面臨到我們現在金融業接下來全球都在因應挑戰包括OECD國家也都是他們甚至把它調降甚至有些是歸零調整為零所以前一陣子你回應說部長說金融業稅不調降還是5%你說尊重\n677079\t704589\t我覺得前段時間可以說尊重啦但是因為我今天時間已經到了我還是要提醒金融營業稅的部分我覺得因應全球不同的變化跟狀況我覺得應該要做階段性的思考過去面對全球金融衝擊在2012年的時候雷曼風暴我們好像有調整為零或甚至調到兩趴那接下來的狀況我希望部長、主委在現場\n706328\t712344\t有沒有可能有一些彈性是不同的變化我們把金融一頁稅放一些彈性未來去做評估\n713820\t736441\t部長你先回應因為是你強勢的說一定要5%在我看來齊頭市的公平就是叫做不公平跟委員報告金融營業稅原來是有2%要歸到金融業特別準備金那到今年落日了所以在稅率上目前來說就是5%也就是其實金融業只有銀保本業的部分是5%那所以這個部分金融營業稅這個部分並沒有規劃要調降是\n739364\t762106\t那當然委員剛剛提醒說整個國際局勢的一些整整變化等等那未來我們會當然也會持續和金管會一起來觀察國際整個情勢的一個變動影響好我最後10秒主委不要忘記你今天來的目的其實你從產業界你可能看到的問題更多你過去的初衷是什麼我覺得要堅持\n762907\t763808\t李坤誠委員\n","txt":"請央行楊總裁\n好 謝謝總裁我想今天的幾個最近這段時間的所有媒體大標都還是在談川普強勢回歸到白宮之後整個全世界因應川普2.0這個會期有未來整個經濟局勢、國內的變化當然台灣也不可能免除以外今天我看到媒體有一個大標寫強勢回歸的川普台積電對白宮沒有說不的權利\n對台灣來說不只台積電恐怕有更多的議題我們恐怕被動式的恐怕要去做後續的因應跟處理所以看到你的簡報當中但是我必須還是要提醒剛才無論是回應吳秉瑞委員就是說今年的我們的跟美國的順差其實那個數字其實要非常的精確因為所有的評估報告來自於\n的數字,我們到今年年底恐怕都會超過這個650億美金左右而且這個是這個數字是川普當時就任第一任的超過10倍以上以川普如果看到這個數字\n我就要跟總裁提一下以川普看到這樣的數字他可能第一關稅一定要加軍購一定要多買無論保護費或關稅的部分所以這件事情我看到總裁你有提到就是說在簡報裡面有提到說後續包括我們處理\n我們貿易對美貿易順差的狀況我們有幾個方向農產品、能源政策還有我們的軍購的部分那軍購的部分那你覺得應該買多少才是一個合理因為川普要的是GDP佔10%啊那我們每一年我們的總預算才2兆多今年有3兆多10%的話就將近2.678兆左右那\n你覺得多少才是合理的?我不是這一方面的專家所以我也沒辦法很抱歉我沒辦法來回答但是總裁你提這三個方向那你應該有一些具體的想法因為這三項目標沒有達到可能我們就會變成\n川普口中的我們是匯率操縱國我們目前匯率操縱國的三大要件檢視的標準無論是美商有三大標準對美商的服務貿易的順差如果超過150億美元還有包括我們經常這樣的順差GDP比率超過3%有三項我們已經超過兩項了\n所以我們隨便就會變成被指控我們是貿易操縱我們是匯率操縱我這樣講沒錯如果看這三個指標的話你怎麼不會川普他說他看這三個數字你就是超過你怎麼不會我只有兩個而已啊現在我們只有兩個而已啊\n我們還沒有三個阿你覺得你跟他有這樣討價還價的餘地嗎?沒有,不是你剛才跟回答賴世保委員說你跟拜登政府的財政部部長很熟但是你跟川普的財政部部長\n我剛剛沒有講這句話我就說我們跟美國的財政部會就這個匯率報告我們每年大概會有兩次的諮商\n我沒有就說我每年就會...總裁沒關係總裁因為我時間很短今天議題很重要媒體也都在關注新的政府上任有新的財政部長被升特我不知道你未來還有沒有機會維持什麼一年兩次以川普他的美國優先主義他的貿易保護政策未來是一個什麼樣的狀況全球各國的金融界\n其實都是一邊哀嚎也在準備各式各樣的方案所以我剛才才說不要太過有自信你現在覺得說我匯率操縱國三項指標我只有兩項我沒有第三項川普哪輪到你說你只有兩項沒有三項他恐怕輪不到你這樣子講所以你提到我們目前今年貿易的順差已經對美已經超過到年底已經超過650億美元\n我們的因應方式如果達不到因為從昨天顧立雄國防部部長回應說我們也不可能超過3%GDP我們買軍購不可能超過3%因為沒有錢農產品我們要買小黃玉國人也沒有能力我們人也不夠多也能買的也有限能源政策\n我們更有對其他國家我不知道這可能有很多的國與國之間的不同的思考在裡面其實能買能不能買這麼多所以很多事情不是你說了算我們想說了算所以目前三項匯率操縱國有兩項就在裡面所以我問你怎麼辦\n你的因應策略什麼處理?當然啦,就是說,第一個,這兩項都是比較辛苦的啦。第一個就是說,我們要對美國的順差要把它降低下來。但是呢,問題是在於就是說,因為美國對我們的自動性產品它就很需要啊。它很需要,它只有我們台灣有啊。\n總裁你講這些我都知道所以我問你怎麼辦你今天來這邊是回答我怎麼辦這個所以呢也就是說我們我就說事實上呢也不是說川普的時代我們沒有跟他諮商過事實上川普上任的四年我們也是幾乎是每年兩次跟他諮商川普的川普再強勢回白宮我相信跟第一任也有可能不一樣應該會不一樣是啦是啦沒有錯啦沒有錯啦我們也沒有就是說錯就是一樣的\n所以你的因應策略是什麼你還是沒有回應我啊那當然啦就是說第一項呢這個就是說我們必須要就是說如何降低下來而且呢要磋商磋商也沒辦法就是說專業來來跟他磋商為什麼因為那是貿易的問題\n總裁我聽到最後我覺得你都是沒有辦法好那我再問你一個問題當時台積電張忠謀提兩年前的時候提到說全球化的貿易已經死了那當時你覺得說他提的非常極端可能應該不是這樣子那你覺得川普在強勢回白宮之後對全球的貿易化\n已經死了這句話你現在還有不同的看法嗎?我總覺得可能會再更碎片化如果說是Globalization就是說因為Globalization、De-Globalization就是說是去全球化事實上這是一個程度的問題那死掉的意思呢我可能我都把它解讀很極端就是說就沒有全球化就沒有彼此就是說大家只有彼此互相來貿易\n我跟委員報告事實上我們的廠商他的因應能力很好的\n二、審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n不不不不不不不\n所以我請問你到底我們現在面對川普在強勢回白宮之後\n你覺得我們到底要注意什麼?你覺得它跟第一任最大的不同接下來會是什麼?你看到的,你有看到你才有辦法因應嗎?對啦,不過我們的因應就是說救中央銀行我只能就是說救我們中央銀行的因應啊那所以呢我們就是提出了三個衝擊那然後呢我們三個因應嘛\n你三個硬硬沒有辦法解決我剛剛請問過農產品、軍購、電燃器所以這個是跨部會要開的一個硬硬隊所以今天張偉很聰明很有智慧排了這樣的議題啊所以這就是灰犀牛的效應我非常遺憾今天我們排了一個這麼重要的議題我相信\n國安部、外交部、輪委會其他的部會呢都是在密切的注意川普的一個貿易政策之後呢要怎麼來因應那就中央銀行的一個立場呢我們第一個就是說他對我們台灣經濟的衝擊會是什麼樣對我們的金融市場的經濟是什麼樣我現在看的是灰犀牛的效應我們的政府提不出指出更好的方式跟方法我目前沒看\n主委部長對外的因應方式我很遺憾剛才沒看到對內的因應方式我們的這個金融營業稅的部分因為財經財經\n之前我們都覺得我們的金融營業稅的部分因為我們金融業體質非常好是好學生在我看來其實因為他沒有進扣的抵稅額所以齊頭市的平等5%的營業稅叫做齊頭市的不平等我是這樣看因為他沒有進扣的可以抵扣的這個項目部長我是這樣子看那但是部長回應說今年不調降因為體質很好我在我看來就是懲罰好學生\n這其實不好的你有機會調降但是我們現在面臨到我們現在金融業接下來全球都在因應挑戰包括OECD國家也都是他們甚至把它調降甚至有些是歸零調整為零所以前一陣子你回應說部長說金融業稅不調降還是5%你說尊重\n我覺得前段時間可以說尊重啦但是因為我今天時間已經到了我還是要提醒金融營業稅的部分我覺得因應全球不同的變化跟狀況我覺得應該要做階段性的思考過去面對全球金融衝擊在2012年的時候雷曼風暴我們好像有調整為零或甚至調到兩趴那接下來的狀況我希望部長、主委在現場\n有沒有可能有一些彈性是不同的變化我們把金融一頁稅放一些彈性未來去做評估\n部長你先回應因為是你強勢的說一定要5%在我看來齊頭市的公平就是叫做不公平跟委員報告金融營業稅原來是有2%要歸到金融業特別準備金那到今年落日了所以在稅率上目前來說就是5%也就是其實金融業只有銀保本業的部分是5%那所以這個部分金融營業稅這個部分並沒有規劃要調降是\n那當然委員剛剛提醒說整個國際局勢的一些整整變化等等那未來我們會當然也會持續和金管會一起來觀察國際整個情勢的一個變動影響好我最後10秒主委不要忘記你今天來的目的其實你從產業界你可能看到的問題更多你過去的初衷是什麼我覺得要堅持\n李坤誠委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:00.349\n請央行楊總裁\n\n00:16.164 --> 00:40.671\n好謝謝總裁我想今天的幾個最近這段時間的所有媒體大標都還是在談川普強勢回歸到白宮之後整個全世界因應川普2.0這個會期有未來整個經濟局勢、國內的變化當然台灣也不可能免除以外今天我看到媒體有一個大標寫強勢回歸的川普台積電對白宮沒有說不的權利\n\n00:43.112 --> 01:05.526\n對台灣來說不只台積電恐怕有更多的議題我們恐怕被動式的恐怕要去做後續的因應跟處理所以看到你的簡報當中但是我必須還是要提醒剛才無論是回應吳秉瑞委員就是說今年的我們的跟美國的順差其實那個數字其實要非常的精確因為所有的評估報告來自於\n\n01:06.968 --> 01:22.066\n的數字,我們到今年年底恐怕都會超過這個650億美金左右而且這個是這個數字是川普當時就任第一任的超過10倍以上以川普如果看到這個數字\n\n01:24.108 --> 01:44.484\n我就要跟總裁提一下以川普看到這樣的數字他可能第一關稅一定要加軍購一定要多買無論保護費或關稅的部分所以這件事情我看到總裁你有提到就是說在簡報裡面有提到說後續包括我們處理\n\n01:46.205 --> 02:11.591\n我們貿易對美貿易順差的狀況我們有幾個方向農產品、能源政策還有我們的軍購的部分那軍購的部分那你覺得應該買多少才是一個合理因為川普要的是GDP佔10%啊那我們每一年我們的總預算才2兆多今年有3兆多10%的話就將近2.678兆左右那\n\n02:16.209 --> 02:36.371\n你覺得多少才是合理的?我不是這一方面的專家所以我也沒辦法很抱歉我沒辦法來回答但是總裁你提這三個方向那你應該有一些具體的想法因為這三項目標沒有達到可能我們就會變成\n\n02:37.933 --> 02:42.814\n川普口中的我們是匯率操縱國我們目前匯率操縱國的三大要件檢視的標準無論是美商有三大標準對美商的服務貿易的順差如果超過150億美元還有包括我們經常這樣的順差GDP比率超過3%有三項我們已經超過兩項了\n\n03:02.240 --> 03:08.903\n所以我們隨便就會變成被指控我們是貿易操縱我們是匯率操縱我這樣講沒錯如果看這三個指標的話你怎麼不會川普他說他看這三個數字你就是超過你怎麼不會我只有兩個而已啊現在我們只有兩個而已啊\n\n03:22.268 --> 03:24.349\n我們還沒有三個阿你覺得你跟他有這樣討價還價的餘地嗎?沒有,不是你剛才跟回答賴世保委員說你跟拜登政府的財政部部長很熟但是你跟川普的財政部部長\n\n03:39.073 --> 03:39.953\n我剛剛沒有講這句話我就說我們跟美國的財政部會就這個匯率報告我們每年大概會有兩次的諮商\n\n03:54.686 --> 04:19.257\n我沒有就說我每年就會...總裁沒關係總裁因為我時間很短今天議題很重要媒體也都在關注新的政府上任有新的財政部長被升特我不知道你未來還有沒有機會維持什麼一年兩次以川普他的美國優先主義他的貿易保護政策未來是一個什麼樣的狀況全球各國的金融界\n\n04:20.658 --> 04:45.289\n其實都是一邊哀嚎也在準備各式各樣的方案所以我剛才才說不要太過有自信你現在覺得說我匯率操縱國三項指標我只有兩項我沒有第三項川普哪輪到你說你只有兩項沒有三項他恐怕輪不到你這樣子講所以你提到我們目前今年貿易的順差已經對美已經超過到年底已經超過650億美元\n\n04:47.190 --> 05:06.688\n我們的因應方式如果達不到因為從昨天顧立雄國防部部長回應說我們也不可能超過3%GDP我們買軍購不可能超過3%因為沒有錢農產品我們要買小黃玉國人也沒有能力我們人也不夠多也能買的也有限能源政策\n\n05:07.409 --> 05:25.582\n我們更有對其他國家我不知道這可能有很多的國與國之間的不同的思考在裡面其實能買能不能買這麼多所以很多事情不是你說了算我們想說了算所以目前三項匯率操縱國有兩項就在裡面所以我問你怎麼辦\n\n05:27.372 --> 05:30.375\n你的因應策略什麼處理?當然啦,就是說,第一個,這兩項都是比較辛苦的啦。第一個就是說,我們要對美國的順差要把它降低下來。但是呢,問題是在於就是說,因為美國對我們的自動性產品它就很需要啊。它很需要,它只有我們台灣有啊。\n\n05:49.625 --> 06:14.078\n總裁你講這些我都知道所以我問你怎麼辦你今天來這邊是回答我怎麼辦這個所以呢也就是說我們我就說事實上呢也不是說川普的時代我們沒有跟他諮商過事實上川普上任的四年我們也是幾乎是每年兩次跟他諮商川普的川普再強勢回白宮我相信跟第一任也有可能不一樣應該會不一樣是啦是啦沒有錯啦沒有錯啦我們也沒有就是說錯就是一樣的\n\n06:18.161 --> 06:32.298\n所以你的因應策略是什麼你還是沒有回應我啊那當然啦就是說第一項呢這個就是說我們必須要就是說如何降低下來而且呢要磋商磋商也沒辦法就是說專業來來跟他磋商為什麼因為那是貿易的問題\n\n06:36.182 --> 06:55.563\n總裁我聽到最後我覺得你都是沒有辦法好那我再問你一個問題當時台積電張忠謀提兩年前的時候提到說全球化的貿易已經死了那當時你覺得說他提的非常極端可能應該不是這樣子那你覺得川普在強勢回白宮之後對全球的貿易化\n\n06:57.352 --> 07:25.281\n已經死了這句話你現在還有不同的看法嗎?我總覺得可能會再更碎片化如果說是Globalization就是說因為Globalization、De-Globalization就是說是去全球化事實上這是一個程度的問題那死掉的意思呢我可能我都把它解讀很極端就是說就沒有全球化就沒有彼此就是說大家只有彼此互相來貿易\n\n07:27.101 --> 07:28.642\n我跟委員報告事實上我們的廠商他的因應能力很好的\n\n07:47.346 --> 07:47.806\n二、審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n\n08:03.379 --> 08:03.899\n不不不不不不不\n\n08:22.006 --> 08:24.368\n所以我請問你到底我們現在面對川普在強勢回白宮之後\n\n08:42.057 --> 09:02.595\n你覺得我們到底要注意什麼?你覺得它跟第一任最大的不同接下來會是什麼?你看到的,你有看到你才有辦法因應嗎?對啦,不過我們的因應就是說救中央銀行我只能就是說救我們中央銀行的因應啊那所以呢我們就是提出了三個衝擊那然後呢我們三個因應嘛\n\n09:03.255 --> 09:09.277\n你三個硬硬沒有辦法解決我剛剛請問過農產品、軍購、電燃器所以這個是跨部會要開的一個硬硬隊所以今天張偉很聰明很有智慧排了這樣的議題啊所以這就是灰犀牛的效應我非常遺憾今天我們排了一個這麼重要的議題我相信\n\n09:31.864 --> 09:38.010\n國安部、外交部、輪委會其他的部會呢都是在密切的注意川普的一個貿易政策之後呢要怎麼來因應那就中央銀行的一個立場呢我們第一個就是說他對我們台灣經濟的衝擊會是什麼樣對我們的金融市場的經濟是什麼樣我現在看的是灰犀牛的效應我們的政府提不出指出更好的方式跟方法我目前沒看\n\n09:59.428 --> 10:03.170\n主委部長對外的因應方式我很遺憾剛才沒看到對內的因應方式我們的這個金融營業稅的部分因為財經財經\n\n10:27.105 --> 10:54.241\n之前我們都覺得我們的金融營業稅的部分因為我們金融業體質非常好是好學生在我看來其實因為他沒有進扣的抵稅額所以齊頭市的平等5%的營業稅叫做齊頭市的不平等我是這樣看因為他沒有進扣的可以抵扣的這個項目部長我是這樣子看那但是部長回應說今年不調降因為體質很好我在我看來就是懲罰好學生\n\n10:55.758 --> 11:13.537\n這其實不好的你有機會調降但是我們現在面臨到我們現在金融業接下來全球都在因應挑戰包括OECD國家也都是他們甚至把它調降甚至有些是歸零調整為零所以前一陣子你回應說部長說金融業稅不調降還是5%你說尊重\n\n11:17.079 --> 11:44.589\n我覺得前段時間可以說尊重啦但是因為我今天時間已經到了我還是要提醒金融營業稅的部分我覺得因應全球不同的變化跟狀況我覺得應該要做階段性的思考過去面對全球金融衝擊在2012年的時候雷曼風暴我們好像有調整為零或甚至調到兩趴那接下來的狀況我希望部長、主委在現場\n\n11:46.328 --> 11:52.344\n有沒有可能有一些彈性是不同的變化我們把金融一頁稅放一些彈性未來去做評估\n\n11:53.820 --> 12:16.441\n部長你先回應因為是你強勢的說一定要5%在我看來齊頭市的公平就是叫做不公平跟委員報告金融營業稅原來是有2%要歸到金融業特別準備金那到今年落日了所以在稅率上目前來說就是5%也就是其實金融業只有銀保本業的部分是5%那所以這個部分金融營業稅這個部分並沒有規劃要調降是\n\n12:19.364 --> 12:42.106\n那當然委員剛剛提醒說整個國際局勢的一些整整變化等等那未來我們會當然也會持續和金管會一起來觀察國際整個情勢的一個變動影響好我最後10秒主委不要忘記你今天來的目的其實你從產業界你可能看到的問題更多你過去的初衷是什麼我覺得要堅持\n\n12:42.907 --> 12:43.808\n李坤誠委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.349,"text":"請央行楊總裁"},{"start":16.164,"end":40.671,"text":"好 謝謝總裁我想今天的幾個最近這段時間的所有媒體大標都還是在談川普強勢回歸到白宮之後整個全世界因應川普2.0這個會期有未來整個經濟局勢、國內的變化當然台灣也不可能免除以外今天我看到媒體有一個大標寫強勢回歸的川普台積電對白宮沒有說不的權利"},{"start":43.112,"end":65.526,"text":"對台灣來說不只台積電恐怕有更多的議題我們恐怕被動式的恐怕要去做後續的因應跟處理所以看到你的簡報當中但是我必須還是要提醒剛才無論是回應吳秉瑞委員就是說今年的我們的跟美國的順差其實那個數字其實要非常的精確因為所有的評估報告來自於"},{"start":66.968,"end":82.066,"text":"的數字,我們到今年年底恐怕都會超過這個650億美金左右而且這個是這個數字是川普當時就任第一任的超過10倍以上以川普如果看到這個數字"},{"start":84.108,"end":104.484,"text":"我就要跟總裁提一下以川普看到這樣的數字他可能第一關稅一定要加軍購一定要多買無論保護費或關稅的部分所以這件事情我看到總裁你有提到就是說在簡報裡面有提到說後續包括我們處理"},{"start":106.205,"end":131.591,"text":"我們貿易對美貿易順差的狀況我們有幾個方向農產品、能源政策還有我們的軍購的部分那軍購的部分那你覺得應該買多少才是一個合理因為川普要的是GDP佔10%啊那我們每一年我們的總預算才2兆多今年有3兆多10%的話就將近2.678兆左右那"},{"start":136.209,"end":156.371,"text":"你覺得多少才是合理的?我不是這一方面的專家所以我也沒辦法很抱歉我沒辦法來回答但是總裁你提這三個方向那你應該有一些具體的想法因為這三項目標沒有達到可能我們就會變成"},{"start":157.933,"end":162.814,"text":"川普口中的我們是匯率操縱國我們目前匯率操縱國的三大要件檢視的標準無論是美商有三大標準對美商的服務貿易的順差如果超過150億美元還有包括我們經常這樣的順差GDP比率超過3%有三項我們已經超過兩項了"},{"start":182.24,"end":188.903,"text":"所以我們隨便就會變成被指控我們是貿易操縱我們是匯率操縱我這樣講沒錯如果看這三個指標的話你怎麼不會川普他說他看這三個數字你就是超過你怎麼不會我只有兩個而已啊現在我們只有兩個而已啊"},{"start":202.268,"end":204.349,"text":"我們還沒有三個阿你覺得你跟他有這樣討價還價的餘地嗎?沒有,不是你剛才跟回答賴世保委員說你跟拜登政府的財政部部長很熟但是你跟川普的財政部部長"},{"start":219.073,"end":219.953,"text":"我剛剛沒有講這句話我就說我們跟美國的財政部會就這個匯率報告我們每年大概會有兩次的諮商"},{"start":234.686,"end":259.257,"text":"我沒有就說我每年就會...總裁沒關係總裁因為我時間很短今天議題很重要媒體也都在關注新的政府上任有新的財政部長被升特我不知道你未來還有沒有機會維持什麼一年兩次以川普他的美國優先主義他的貿易保護政策未來是一個什麼樣的狀況全球各國的金融界"},{"start":260.658,"end":285.289,"text":"其實都是一邊哀嚎也在準備各式各樣的方案所以我剛才才說不要太過有自信你現在覺得說我匯率操縱國三項指標我只有兩項我沒有第三項川普哪輪到你說你只有兩項沒有三項他恐怕輪不到你這樣子講所以你提到我們目前今年貿易的順差已經對美已經超過到年底已經超過650億美元"},{"start":287.19,"end":306.688,"text":"我們的因應方式如果達不到因為從昨天顧立雄國防部部長回應說我們也不可能超過3%GDP我們買軍購不可能超過3%因為沒有錢農產品我們要買小黃玉國人也沒有能力我們人也不夠多也能買的也有限能源政策"},{"start":307.409,"end":325.582,"text":"我們更有對其他國家我不知道這可能有很多的國與國之間的不同的思考在裡面其實能買能不能買這麼多所以很多事情不是你說了算我們想說了算所以目前三項匯率操縱國有兩項就在裡面所以我問你怎麼辦"},{"start":327.372,"end":330.375,"text":"你的因應策略什麼處理?當然啦,就是說,第一個,這兩項都是比較辛苦的啦。第一個就是說,我們要對美國的順差要把它降低下來。但是呢,問題是在於就是說,因為美國對我們的自動性產品它就很需要啊。它很需要,它只有我們台灣有啊。"},{"start":349.625,"end":374.078,"text":"總裁你講這些我都知道所以我問你怎麼辦你今天來這邊是回答我怎麼辦這個所以呢也就是說我們我就說事實上呢也不是說川普的時代我們沒有跟他諮商過事實上川普上任的四年我們也是幾乎是每年兩次跟他諮商川普的川普再強勢回白宮我相信跟第一任也有可能不一樣應該會不一樣是啦是啦沒有錯啦沒有錯啦我們也沒有就是說錯就是一樣的"},{"start":378.161,"end":392.298,"text":"所以你的因應策略是什麼你還是沒有回應我啊那當然啦就是說第一項呢這個就是說我們必須要就是說如何降低下來而且呢要磋商磋商也沒辦法就是說專業來來跟他磋商為什麼因為那是貿易的問題"},{"start":396.182,"end":415.563,"text":"總裁我聽到最後我覺得你都是沒有辦法好那我再問你一個問題當時台積電張忠謀提兩年前的時候提到說全球化的貿易已經死了那當時你覺得說他提的非常極端可能應該不是這樣子那你覺得川普在強勢回白宮之後對全球的貿易化"},{"start":417.352,"end":445.281,"text":"已經死了這句話你現在還有不同的看法嗎?我總覺得可能會再更碎片化如果說是Globalization就是說因為Globalization、De-Globalization就是說是去全球化事實上這是一個程度的問題那死掉的意思呢我可能我都把它解讀很極端就是說就沒有全球化就沒有彼此就是說大家只有彼此互相來貿易"},{"start":447.101,"end":448.642,"text":"我跟委員報告事實上我們的廠商他的因應能力很好的"},{"start":467.346,"end":467.806,"text":"二、審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度"},{"start":483.379,"end":483.899,"text":"不不不不不不不"},{"start":502.006,"end":504.368,"text":"所以我請問你到底我們現在面對川普在強勢回白宮之後"},{"start":522.057,"end":542.595,"text":"你覺得我們到底要注意什麼?你覺得它跟第一任最大的不同接下來會是什麼?你看到的,你有看到你才有辦法因應嗎?對啦,不過我們的因應就是說救中央銀行我只能就是說救我們中央銀行的因應啊那所以呢我們就是提出了三個衝擊那然後呢我們三個因應嘛"},{"start":543.255,"end":549.277,"text":"你三個硬硬沒有辦法解決我剛剛請問過農產品、軍購、電燃器所以這個是跨部會要開的一個硬硬隊所以今天張偉很聰明很有智慧排了這樣的議題啊所以這就是灰犀牛的效應我非常遺憾今天我們排了一個這麼重要的議題我相信"},{"start":571.864,"end":578.01,"text":"國安部、外交部、輪委會其他的部會呢都是在密切的注意川普的一個貿易政策之後呢要怎麼來因應那就中央銀行的一個立場呢我們第一個就是說他對我們台灣經濟的衝擊會是什麼樣對我們的金融市場的經濟是什麼樣我現在看的是灰犀牛的效應我們的政府提不出指出更好的方式跟方法我目前沒看"},{"start":599.428,"end":603.17,"text":"主委部長對外的因應方式我很遺憾剛才沒看到對內的因應方式我們的這個金融營業稅的部分因為財經財經"},{"start":627.105,"end":654.241,"text":"之前我們都覺得我們的金融營業稅的部分因為我們金融業體質非常好是好學生在我看來其實因為他沒有進扣的抵稅額所以齊頭市的平等5%的營業稅叫做齊頭市的不平等我是這樣看因為他沒有進扣的可以抵扣的這個項目部長我是這樣子看那但是部長回應說今年不調降因為體質很好我在我看來就是懲罰好學生"},{"start":655.758,"end":673.537,"text":"這其實不好的你有機會調降但是我們現在面臨到我們現在金融業接下來全球都在因應挑戰包括OECD國家也都是他們甚至把它調降甚至有些是歸零調整為零所以前一陣子你回應說部長說金融業稅不調降還是5%你說尊重"},{"start":677.079,"end":704.589,"text":"我覺得前段時間可以說尊重啦但是因為我今天時間已經到了我還是要提醒金融營業稅的部分我覺得因應全球不同的變化跟狀況我覺得應該要做階段性的思考過去面對全球金融衝擊在2012年的時候雷曼風暴我們好像有調整為零或甚至調到兩趴那接下來的狀況我希望部長、主委在現場"},{"start":706.328,"end":712.344,"text":"有沒有可能有一些彈性是不同的變化我們把金融一頁稅放一些彈性未來去做評估"},{"start":713.82,"end":736.441,"text":"部長你先回應因為是你強勢的說一定要5%在我看來齊頭市的公平就是叫做不公平跟委員報告金融營業稅原來是有2%要歸到金融業特別準備金那到今年落日了所以在稅率上目前來說就是5%也就是其實金融業只有銀保本業的部分是5%那所以這個部分金融營業稅這個部分並沒有規劃要調降是"},{"start":739.364,"end":762.106,"text":"那當然委員剛剛提醒說整個國際局勢的一些整整變化等等那未來我們會當然也會持續和金管會一起來觀察國際整個情勢的一個變動影響好我最後10秒主委不要忘記你今天來的目的其實你從產業界你可能看到的問題更多你過去的初衷是什麼我覺得要堅持"},{"start":762.907,"end":763.808,"text":"李坤誠委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":593,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（10時13分）謝謝召委，今天安排這個題目非常的重要，難得財委會三個最重要的部會主管都在現場，我可不可以先請央行的楊總裁？"],["主席：請央行楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝總裁。最近這段時間所有的媒體大標都還是在談川普強勢回歸到白宮之後，全世界因應川普2.0這個灰犀牛的未來經濟局勢以及國內的變化，當然臺灣也不可能免除於外，今天我看到媒體有一個大標寫著：強勢回歸的川普，台積電對白宮沒有說不的權利。對臺灣來說，不只台積電，有更多的議題我們恐怕是被動式的要去做後續的因應跟處理。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：我看到你的簡報當中也有分析，但我還是必須提醒，剛才無論是回應吳秉叡委員……今年我們跟美國的順差，其實那個數字要非常精確，因為所有的評估報告來自於精確的數字。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：我們到今年年底恐怕都會超過650億美金左右，而且這個數字超過川普就任第一任時的10倍以上，我就要跟總裁提一下，以川普看到這樣的數字，第一，他可能關稅一定要加、軍購一定要多買，無論保護費或關稅的部分。所以這件事情我看到總裁在簡報裡面有提到，後續包括我們處理對美貿易順差的狀況，我們有幾個方向，農產品、能源政策，還有軍購……"],["楊總裁金龍：對，沒有錯。"],["李委員彥秀：那軍購的部分，你覺得應該買多少才合理？因為川普要的是占GDP10%啊！我們每一年總預算才兩兆多，今年有三兆多，10%就將近2.6、2.7、2.8兆左右，那你覺得多少才是合理的？"],["楊總裁金龍：我不是這一方面的專家啦，所以很抱歉，我沒辦法來回答委員……"],["李委員彥秀：但是總裁，你提這三個方向應該有一些具體的想法，因為這三項目標沒有達到，可能我們就會變成川普口中的匯率操縱國……"],["楊總裁金龍：不會啦！不會啦！"],["李委員彥秀：目前匯率操縱國的檢視，有三大標準嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，對，對。"],["李委員彥秀：對美商服務貿易的順差如果超過150億美元，還有包括我們經常帳的順差GDP比率超過3%，共有三項，我們已經超過兩項了耶！"],["楊總裁金龍：對，對，對。"],["李委員彥秀：所以我們隨便就會被指控是匯率操縱國，我這樣講沒錯？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，不會。"],["李委員彥秀：如果看這三個指標的話……"],["楊總裁金龍：事實上，第一個……"],["李委員彥秀：怎麼不會？"],["楊總裁金龍：不會啦！"],["李委員彥秀：川普他看這三個數字啊，你就是超過，怎麼不會？"],["楊總裁金龍：我只有兩個而已，現在我們只有兩個而已，我們還沒有三個啊！"],["李委員彥秀：你覺得你跟他有這樣討價還價的餘地嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，不是……"],["李委員彥秀：你剛才回答賴士葆委員，你跟拜登政府的財政部部長很熟……"],["楊總裁金龍：我沒有說跟……"],["李委員彥秀：川普的財政部部長貝森特，你熟嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，沒有，沒有，我剛剛沒有講這一句話喔！我就說我們跟美國的財政部就這個匯率報告，每年大概會有兩次的諮商，我沒有說我每年會跟美國……"],["李委員彥秀：沒關係，總裁，因為我時間很短，今天議題很重要，媒體也都在關注。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，是，是。"],["李委員彥秀：新的政府上任，有新的財政部長貝森特，我不知道你未來還有沒有機會維持什麼一年兩次啦，以川普他的美國優先主義，他的貿易保護政策，未來是一個什麼樣的狀況，全球各國的金融界其實都是一片哀嚎，也在準備各式各樣的方案，所以我剛才才說不要太過有自信。你現在覺得匯率操縱國三項指標我只有兩項，我沒有第三項，川普哪輪得到你說只有兩項沒有三項，他恐怕輪不到你這樣子講。所以你提到我們今年對美貿易的順差到年底已經超過650億美元……"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["李委員彥秀：我們的因應方式如果達不到……因為昨天國防部部長顧立雄回應說我們買軍購不可能超過百分之三的GDP，因為沒有錢。農產品，我們要買「黃小玉」，國人也沒有能力，我們人也不夠多，能買的也有限。能源政策，我們更有對其他國家……我不知道，這可能又有很多國與國之間不同的思考在裡面，其實能買、能不能買這麼多？很多事情不是你說了算，我們說了算。目前三項匯率操縱國的標準，我們有兩項就在裡面，所以我問你怎麼辦，你的因應策略怎麼處理？"],["楊總裁金龍：當然，這兩項都是比較辛苦的，第一個就是我們對美國的順差要把它降低下來，但是問題在於因為美國對我們的資通訊產品，它就很需要啊！很需要，但就只有我們臺灣有啊！"],["李委員彥秀：總裁，你講這些我都知道，所以我問你怎麼辦？"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦……"],["李委員彥秀：你今天來這邊是回答我怎麼辦。"],["楊總裁金龍：所以也不是說川普的時代我們沒有跟他諮商過，事實上川普上任的4年，我們也幾乎是每年兩次跟他諮商……"],["李委員彥秀：川普再強勢回白宮，我相信跟第一任也有可能不一樣，應該會不一樣……"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦，是啦，沒有錯啦，我們也沒有說就是一樣的，我們沒有……"],["李委員彥秀：對，所以你的因應策略是什麼，你還是沒有回應我啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：當然，第一項就是我們必須思考如何降低下來，而且要磋商，磋商也沒辦法由中央銀行來跟他磋商，為什麼？因為那是貿易的問題，中央銀行只有匯率的問題……"],["李委員彥秀：總裁，聽到最後我覺得你都是沒有辦法……"],["楊總裁金龍：是啦！"],["李委員彥秀：好，我再問你一個問題，台積電張忠謀兩年前的時候，提到全球化的貿易已經死了，當時你覺得他提得非常極端，應該不是這樣子，那你覺得川普再強勢回白宮之後「全球的貿易化已經死了」這句話，你現在還有不同的看法嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：我總覺得可能會再更碎片化，因為deglobalization去全球化，事實上這是一個程度的問題，而死掉的意思呢？我可能都把它解讀很極端啦，就是沒有全球化，大家只有彼此互相貿易，就是這樣子而已，沒有是一個……"],["李委員彥秀：你之前回應說廠商有很多的彈性，自然可以去因應這樣的策略跟狀況……"],["楊總裁金龍：對啊，是啊，沒有錯啊！"],["李委員彥秀：但是你覺得我們現在許多的廠商有辦法去抵擋這個關稅俠──川普2.0的衝擊嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，事實上我們廠商的因應能力是很好的，比我個人所想像的都還好、還優秀……"],["李委員彥秀：總裁！"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["李委員彥秀：廠商，所有的業界、產業界是在辛苦裡面求生存，因為它要活下去……"],["楊總裁金龍：那當然。"],["李委員彥秀：他養這麼多的員工……"],["楊總裁金龍：就是因為他們要求生存，他們才很積極的思考要如何來……"],["李委員彥秀：它不得不，但是身為國家最重要的財經三長，今天都在現場，我聽到現在為止，我聽不到有任何解決的方案，這就是所謂的灰犀牛效應耶！"],["楊總裁金龍：不會啦，不會，不會！"],["李委員彥秀：我們知道灰犀牛已經來了，但是我們卻拿不出方法，這才是我們最擔心的，總裁，川普是商人的性格，這句話你同不同意？"],["楊總裁金龍：是啦，應該可以很合理的說他是一個商人的性格，也可以啦！"],["李委員彥秀：所以我請問你，現在面對川普再強勢回白宮之後，你覺得我們到底要注意什麼？你覺得他跟第一任最大的不同，接下來會是什麼？你看到的，你有看到你才有辦法因應嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦，不過我們的因應，我只能說就我們中央銀行的因應，就是提出了三個衝擊，然後三個因應嘛！"],["李委員彥秀：你三個因應，沒有辦法解決，我剛剛已經問過農產品、軍購、天然氣……"],["楊總裁金龍：那不是我們中央銀行要因應的。"],["李委員彥秀：這個是跨部會要有的一個應對，所以今天召委很聰明，很有智慧排了這樣的議題啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：但是我跟委員報告，有些不是我們的職權，我們能夠在這邊講得很多嗎？"],["李委員彥秀：所以這就是灰犀牛的效應，我非常遺憾的就是今天我們排了一個這麼重要的議題……"],["楊總裁金龍：我相信國防部、外交部、農業部等其他的部會，都是在密切的注意川普的貿易政策，並且思考之後要怎麼來因應。就中央銀行的立場，第一個，對我們臺灣經濟的衝擊會是什麼樣，對我們的金融市場……"],["李委員彥秀：總裁你不用回應，你回答到現在，我看到的是灰犀牛效應，我們的政府提不出更好的方式跟方法，我目前沒看……"],["楊總裁金龍：不，不，有些時候……"],["李委員彥秀：好，時間先暫停一下，我可不可以請金管會主委跟財政部部長？召委，我要再一分鐘。"],["主席：好，請主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：主委、部長，對外的因應方式，我很遺憾剛才沒看到；對內的因應方式，我們金融營業稅的部分，因為財經、財經嘛……之前，我們都覺得金融營業稅的部分，因為金融業體質非常好，是好學生，在我看來其實因為它沒有進扣的抵稅額，所以齊頭式的平等，5%的營業稅叫做齊頭式的不平等，我是這樣看，因為它沒有進扣可以抵扣的項目，部長，我是這樣子看。但是部長回應說，今年不調降，因為體質很好，在我看來就是懲罰好學生。體質不好的有機會調降，但是我們接下來面臨全球金融業都在因應的挑戰，包括OECD國家也都是，他們把它調降，甚至有些是歸零、調整為零。前一陣子部長回應說，金融營業稅不調降，還是5%，你說尊重，我覺得前一段時間可以說尊重啦，但是因為我今天時間已經到了，我還是要提醒金融營業稅的部分，我覺得因應全球不同的變化跟狀況，應該要做階段性的思考。","過去面對全球金融衝擊，在2012年的時候，雷曼風暴我們好像有調整為零，甚至調到2%，面對接下來的狀況，部長、主委在現場，有沒有可能有一些彈性，視不同的變化就金融營業稅放一些彈性，未來去評估？部長，你先回應，因為是你強勢的說一定要5%，在我看來，齊頭式的公平就是叫做不公平。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，金融營業稅原來是有2%要歸到金融業特別準備金，到今年落日了，所以目前在稅率上意思就是5%，其實也就是金融業只有銀保本業的部分是5%。"],["李委員彥秀：我知道。"],["莊部長翠雲：所以金融營業稅這個部分並沒有規劃要調降。當然，委員剛剛提醒整個國際局勢的變化等等，未來我們當然也會持續和金管會一起來觀察國際情勢的變動影響。"],["李委員彥秀：好，我最後10秒。主委不要忘記你今天來的目的，其實從產業界，你能看到的問題更多，你過去的初衷是什麼，我覺得要堅持，部長前一陣子回應我的，我並不滿意，金融業體質很好，但是我真的再一次強調，齊頭式的平等其實叫做不平等，因為它沒有進項的抵扣稅額可以抵扣，這一塊我希望財政部持續做滾動式檢討跟討論，好不好？謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝彥秀。","接著請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":256,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","李坤城","王鴻薇","羅明才","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳玉珍","黃國昌","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","葉元之","王世堅","何欣純","邱志偉"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍、財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「美\n國新任總統的貿易政策對台灣經濟與金融穩定之可能影響與對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案：行政院歲入預算有關中央銀行股息紅利繳庫部分\n（僅詢答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於中央銀行\n（含中央造幣廠、中央印製廠）（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00003"}}}