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\"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 759.151, \"end\": 759.291, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"：\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 759.291, \"end\": 759.392, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 759.392, \"end\": 759.472, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"：\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 759.472, \"end\": 759.553, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 759.553, \"end\": 759.573, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:20,300 --> 00:00:47,203\n來,請先聯次長請經濟部聯次長委員好處長今天要討論再生能源這幾天綠營的弊案引起很大討論包括賴清德總統昨天都談話說要陳啟毅禁訴到案而且他要中央跟地方要檢討整個行政流程跟兔節\n\n2\n00:00:48,635 --> 00:00:52,296\n條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：\n\n3\n00:01:14,963 --> 00:01:42,959\n跟委員報告這個我們目前已經開過好幾次會齁跟所有的地方政府還有我們甚至把法務部都找進來齁還有農業部相關單位還有環境部我們都我看你們有三大三大方案那當然一個一個來討論啦包括跟地方的溝通什麼我覺得這個方法三個看起來還不錯可是有些地方在補強更重要的要先辦一些大家矚目的案子啊我先講一個重要的案子就是林柏定啊他說\n\n4\n00:01:47,072 --> 00:02:10,618\n銀報草果對不對?他不是聯絡了金管會說要去查他有沒有草果對不對?那事實上銀報跟你們也很有關係啊。銀報牽扯到台灣綠能的這個弊案。這個媒體有報導過好幾次。民眾黨的立法委員也開過記者會了。你看一下。銀報從台元綠能搬走了上億元。台元說會配合司法調查。\n\n5\n00:02:12,093 --> 00:02:27,130\n我給你看一個圖齁我們看一下這個圖這個壁為什麼變成雲暴涉入臺原利能這個壁案一開始啊這塊土地北門暗場這個土地啊開始成熟人是臺原利能結果呢到你看右邊\n\n6\n00:02:28,271 --> 00:02:55,113\n案場後來轉給銀豹投資公司以後銀豹已經賺了錢了喔結果後來突然又出現那個額外要支出上億元給縱橫家有限公司結果啦這個縱橫家有限公司現在大家在質疑說包括人家去檢紀啊他是不是銀豹就是部長常常在講這個炒股的銀豹他跟縱橫家到底什麼關係縱橫家是不是他的紙帳公司有三個很特別的所在第一個\n\n7\n00:02:56,318 --> 00:03:19,156\n銀豹跟縱橫家剛好設在同一個地址,兩家公司是同樣一個地址。縱橫家聯絡人剛好也是銀豹人員的經理。更離譜的是什麼?縱橫家本來說不到錢。他從台元利冷那邊搬走了快一億元,掏空了快一億。他要不到錢,誰去幫他要錢?銀豹的創辦人張建偉出面去投資。\n\n8\n00:03:25,666 --> 00:03:51,308\n所以我在講剛剛總統說要你們好好去辦對不對那我今天正式的提醒這個案子要好好辦好不好好雲豹怎麼樣掏空了雲豹怎麼掏空了臺原綠能我們關注他的資產這個案子要好好辦好第二個我要給你看一張照片全國綠能綠能當然我們是高雷嘛可是綠能是不是變成一個後援會變成一個黑金碧暗的一個後援大會你看這張圖上面的陳起義落跑了臺原綠能\n\n9\n00:03:55,268 --> 00:04:16,322\n這是在2000年的時候蔡英文總統要連任的時候這個後援會上面陳祺毅參加了現在落跑了立洋建設的古聖徽這就是台南的八十八槍他從台電的不法所得檢查官請知書怎麼說從台電要取得的不法所得九十一億\n\n10\n00:04:17,407 --> 00:04:21,850\n對對那這個就是要不只要踩煞車這個弊案還要更清楚好不好這個案子地洋建設這個案子裡面牽扯到\n\n11\n00:04:38,356 --> 00:04:40,918\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n\n12\n00:04:54,448 --> 00:05:11,293\n他光是在章兵工業區那個整個專案的開發到現在案子監察已經糾正了這個案子你們也要好好查有有我們一定要叫他要把所有的股權回復到可控制的狀況在右邊你看已經點了三個人你看開洋集團的蔡中榮跟右邊跟他的弟弟\n\n13\n00:05:13,431 --> 00:05:41,616\n這個也是這次台言綠能裡面都涉案的所以剛剛我一開始講了總統不是只有喊話說叫陳起義回來要嚴辦趕快把人抓到這是一個第二個經濟部的角色你們有提到三個解決方案嘛對不對可是更重要如果是眾所矚目的案子你們要好好辦好不好好接下來我看一下我看你們提了三個改善的這個方式我覺得應該是要肯定的可是處長你有沒有看到這個三個方式裡面少了一個正本清源\n\n14\n00:05:43,206 --> 00:06:10,519\n其實這三個方法都是重要的可是更重要是什麼?就是因為裡面的利潤利益太大嘛所以要正本清也就是說讓那個不法所得第一個不要那麼高第一個他應該要公開透明啊你讚不讚成?讚成我讚成我讚成公開透明這個最新的你看來你看一下這個案子是昨天最新的大家看倒數地方你看業者一口氣可以賺走台電多少錢?長達20年的再生能源的電費\n\n15\n00:06:12,148 --> 00:06:37,071\n四億四千多萬。你看,一個是中華、一個是中華、竹塘、一個是芬林的二輪。那裡面出現了什麼?就是為什麼利潤會這麼大?我今天提一個非常具體的建議喔,這邊。利潤這麼大一個很重要的源頭就是等過電價太高了。對不對?你看一下,我整理資料給你看。\n\n16\n00:06:39,144 --> 00:06:41,945\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案\n\n17\n00:07:06,778 --> 00:07:17,068\n市長你看,上一張你看一下,你看一下德國的狀況德國是在2000年實施再生能源法他一開始跟我們台灣一樣喔也是採取短過電價對不對,這邊是三年嘛那給比較高的這個價格,比較好的這個價格嘛\n\n18\n00:07:20,117 --> 00:07:39,030\n那麽現在他當初裝的跟我們一樣啊那我們現在是產生了弊案你看人家後來德國市場成熟以後2017年他是修訂了11G2017就引入變成是競標了就是等過電價是要退場的然後讓這個競標的機制進來你看日本日本是在2012年導入等過這個制度然後後來呢推動光電發展以後技術成熟以後日本為了降低成本\n\n19\n00:07:50,497 --> 00:08:18,552\n他就開始從2017年引進了競標的旗幟本期今天為什麼要提出這個質詢你們那個三大措施是好的可是正本清源就是因為賭過電價這個地方出了問題了可以用可是像德國跟日本一段時間你為了降低成本對不對你把那個利潤降下來那對台電也很好啊好來所以我具體的要求來我們看一下下一張你看喔賭過機制先好好檢討一下如果像德國像日本\n\n20\n00:08:19,577 --> 00:08:47,162\n市場成熟了他至少有三個,你看至少有三個好處他如果退場的話避免過高的利益導致綠電蟑螂橫行必斷重生這是第一個好處第二個會弱使你剛三個方案裡面真正的公開透明公平競爭第三個台電欠錢欠價嘛對不對虧損累累嘛對不對以後公開競標完之後他的價格就會降下來合理的價格所以他至少有三個好處好那我現在具體的要求第一\n\n21\n00:08:48,547 --> 00:09:04,271\n一個禮拜內一個禮拜內你評估請經濟部評估什麼時候讓等過機制可以退場跟德國跟日本一樣轉變成是競標的機制你給我一個很具體的評估報告好不好現在光點沒有等過啦\n\n22\n00:09:05,491 --> 00:09:07,992\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：\n\n23\n00:09:32,728 --> 00:09:51,976\n提出你們的修正版本。好來最後我再看一下最後你這三個點裡面齁我肯定你們之前總統提過之後還有卓議院長說你要提出個解決方案你們提了三個點嘛可是一定要落實好不好我是嘉義人來我們看下一張嘉義人請給咱們發聲一下大寶這張大寶你也很傷心嘛對不對民眾那種無辜他已經跟佳信政府已經存傾了齁\n\n24\n00:10:00,698 --> 00:10:29,447\n結果你看宮殿那一則在沒有跟村民取得共識之下他就開始去施工啊你看自己人多可憐委員這個案現在我自己會跟居民說這個案沒有跟地方居民溝通現在都是心事騙人在那邊沒有在動工一定要跟居民溝通而且居民溝通的時候才可以再動工這個案我們有在追蹤對喔有夠可憐的說什麼那個怪手司機跟我們說你不讓開我就把你連死太可憐了吧這會不會太殘忍啊\n\n25\n00:10:30,797 --> 00:10:31,898\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查\n\n26\n00:10:43,544 --> 00:10:46,166\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n\n27\n00:11:01,059 --> 00:11:02,460\n條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案。\n\n28\n00:11:19,838 --> 00:11:21,739\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n\n29\n00:11:49,332 --> 00:12:09,606\n我們現在已經先改掉了,事前就要先去溝通。我們已經事前在溝通,我們這個已經在改了所以這一個跟村民的溝通還要同意嘛,對不對?因為這個過程裡面要公開透明化,這可以避免利能商人在恨生、利病在重生,這個很重要。第三個我剛剛提了一個基本的改革方案\n\n30\n00:12:10,146 --> 00:12:13,408\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n\n31\n00:12:37,082 --> 00:12:39,573\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n20300\t47203\t來,請先聯次長請經濟部聯次長委員好處長今天要討論再生能源這幾天綠營的弊案引起很大討論包括賴清德總統昨天都談話說要陳啟毅禁訴到案而且他要中央跟地方要檢討整個行政流程跟兔節\n48635\t52296\t條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：\n74963\t102959\t跟委員報告這個我們目前已經開過好幾次會齁跟所有的地方政府還有我們甚至把法務部都找進來齁還有農業部相關單位還有環境部我們都我看你們有三大三大方案那當然一個一個來討論啦包括跟地方的溝通什麼我覺得這個方法三個看起來還不錯可是有些地方在補強更重要的要先辦一些大家矚目的案子啊我先講一個重要的案子就是林柏定啊他說\n107072\t130618\t銀報草果對不對?他不是聯絡了金管會說要去查他有沒有草果對不對?那事實上銀報跟你們也很有關係啊。銀報牽扯到台灣綠能的這個弊案。這個媒體有報導過好幾次。民眾黨的立法委員也開過記者會了。你看一下。銀報從台元綠能搬走了上億元。台元說會配合司法調查。\n132093\t147130\t我給你看一個圖齁我們看一下這個圖這個壁為什麼變成雲暴涉入臺原利能這個壁案一開始啊這塊土地北門暗場這個土地啊開始成熟人是臺原利能結果呢到你看右邊\n148271\t175113\t案場後來轉給銀豹投資公司以後銀豹已經賺了錢了喔結果後來突然又出現那個額外要支出上億元給縱橫家有限公司結果啦這個縱橫家有限公司現在大家在質疑說包括人家去檢紀啊他是不是銀豹就是部長常常在講這個炒股的銀豹他跟縱橫家到底什麼關係縱橫家是不是他的紙帳公司有三個很特別的所在第一個\n176318\t199156\t銀豹跟縱橫家剛好設在同一個地址,兩家公司是同樣一個地址。縱橫家聯絡人剛好也是銀豹人員的經理。更離譜的是什麼?縱橫家本來說不到錢。他從台元利冷那邊搬走了快一億元,掏空了快一億。他要不到錢,誰去幫他要錢?銀豹的創辦人張建偉出面去投資。\n205666\t231308\t所以我在講剛剛總統說要你們好好去辦對不對那我今天正式的提醒這個案子要好好辦好不好好雲豹怎麼樣掏空了雲豹怎麼掏空了臺原綠能我們關注他的資產這個案子要好好辦好第二個我要給你看一張照片全國綠能綠能當然我們是高雷嘛可是綠能是不是變成一個後援會變成一個黑金碧暗的一個後援大會你看這張圖上面的陳起義落跑了臺原綠能\n235268\t256322\t這是在2000年的時候蔡英文總統要連任的時候這個後援會上面陳祺毅參加了現在落跑了立洋建設的古聖徽這就是台南的八十八槍他從台電的不法所得檢查官請知書怎麼說從台電要取得的不法所得九十一億\n257407\t261850\t對對那這個就是要不只要踩煞車這個弊案還要更清楚好不好這個案子地洋建設這個案子裡面牽扯到\n278356\t280918\t條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n294448\t311293\t他光是在章兵工業區那個整個專案的開發到現在案子監察已經糾正了這個案子你們也要好好查有有我們一定要叫他要把所有的股權回復到可控制的狀況在右邊你看已經點了三個人你看開洋集團的蔡中榮跟右邊跟他的弟弟\n313431\t341616\t這個也是這次台言綠能裡面都涉案的所以剛剛我一開始講了總統不是只有喊話說叫陳起義回來要嚴辦趕快把人抓到這是一個第二個經濟部的角色你們有提到三個解決方案嘛對不對可是更重要如果是眾所矚目的案子你們要好好辦好不好好接下來我看一下我看你們提了三個改善的這個方式我覺得應該是要肯定的可是處長你有沒有看到這個三個方式裡面少了一個正本清源\n343206\t370519\t其實這三個方法都是重要的可是更重要是什麼?就是因為裡面的利潤利益太大嘛所以要正本清也就是說讓那個不法所得第一個不要那麼高第一個他應該要公開透明啊你讚不讚成?讚成我讚成我讚成公開透明這個最新的你看來你看一下這個案子是昨天最新的大家看倒數地方你看業者一口氣可以賺走台電多少錢?長達20年的再生能源的電費\n372148\t397071\t四億四千多萬。你看,一個是中華、一個是中華、竹塘、一個是芬林的二輪。那裡面出現了什麼?就是為什麼利潤會這麼大?我今天提一個非常具體的建議喔,這邊。利潤這麼大一個很重要的源頭就是等過電價太高了。對不對?你看一下,我整理資料給你看。\n399144\t401945\t條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案\n426778\t437068\t市長你看,上一張你看一下,你看一下德國的狀況德國是在2000年實施再生能源法他一開始跟我們台灣一樣喔也是採取短過電價對不對,這邊是三年嘛那給比較高的這個價格,比較好的這個價格嘛\n440117\t459030\t那麽現在他當初裝的跟我們一樣啊那我們現在是產生了弊案你看人家後來德國市場成熟以後2017年他是修訂了11G2017就引入變成是競標了就是等過電價是要退場的然後讓這個競標的機制進來你看日本日本是在2012年導入等過這個制度然後後來呢推動光電發展以後技術成熟以後日本為了降低成本\n470497\t498552\t他就開始從2017年引進了競標的旗幟本期今天為什麼要提出這個質詢你們那個三大措施是好的可是正本清源就是因為賭過電價這個地方出了問題了可以用可是像德國跟日本一段時間你為了降低成本對不對你把那個利潤降下來那對台電也很好啊好來所以我具體的要求來我們看一下下一張你看喔賭過機制先好好檢討一下如果像德國像日本\n499577\t527162\t市場成熟了他至少有三個,你看至少有三個好處他如果退場的話避免過高的利益導致綠電蟑螂橫行必斷重生這是第一個好處第二個會弱使你剛三個方案裡面真正的公開透明公平競爭第三個台電欠錢欠價嘛對不對虧損累累嘛對不對以後公開競標完之後他的價格就會降下來合理的價格所以他至少有三個好處好那我現在具體的要求第一\n528547\t544271\t一個禮拜內一個禮拜內你評估請經濟部評估什麼時候讓等過機制可以退場跟德國跟日本一樣轉變成是競標的機制你給我一個很具體的評估報告好不好現在光點沒有等過啦\n545491\t547992\t條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：\n572728\t591976\t提出你們的修正版本。好來最後我再看一下最後你這三個點裡面齁我肯定你們之前總統提過之後還有卓議院長說你要提出個解決方案你們提了三個點嘛可是一定要落實好不好我是嘉義人來我們看下一張嘉義人請給咱們發聲一下大寶這張大寶你也很傷心嘛對不對民眾那種無辜他已經跟佳信政府已經存傾了齁\n600698\t629447\t結果你看宮殿那一則在沒有跟村民取得共識之下他就開始去施工啊你看自己人多可憐委員這個案現在我自己會跟居民說這個案沒有跟地方居民溝通現在都是心事騙人在那邊沒有在動工一定要跟居民溝通而且居民溝通的時候才可以再動工這個案我們有在追蹤對喔有夠可憐的說什麼那個怪手司機跟我們說你不讓開我就把你連死太可憐了吧這會不會太殘忍啊\n630797\t631898\t條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查\n643544\t646166\t條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n661059\t662460\t條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案。\n679838\t681739\t條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n709332\t729606\t我們現在已經先改掉了,事前就要先去溝通。我們已經事前在溝通,我們這個已經在改了所以這一個跟村民的溝通還要同意嘛,對不對?因為這個過程裡面要公開透明化,這可以避免利能商人在恨生、利病在重生,這個很重要。第三個我剛剛提了一個基本的改革方案\n730146\t733408\t條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n757082\t759573\t條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查\n","txt":"來,請先聯次長請經濟部聯次長委員好處長今天要討論再生能源這幾天綠營的弊案引起很大討論包括賴清德總統昨天都談話說要陳啟毅禁訴到案而且他要中央跟地方要檢討整個行政流程跟兔節\n條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：\n跟委員報告這個我們目前已經開過好幾次會齁跟所有的地方政府還有我們甚至把法務部都找進來齁還有農業部相關單位還有環境部我們都我看你們有三大三大方案那當然一個一個來討論啦包括跟地方的溝通什麼我覺得這個方法三個看起來還不錯可是有些地方在補強更重要的要先辦一些大家矚目的案子啊我先講一個重要的案子就是林柏定啊他說\n銀報草果對不對?他不是聯絡了金管會說要去查他有沒有草果對不對?那事實上銀報跟你們也很有關係啊。銀報牽扯到台灣綠能的這個弊案。這個媒體有報導過好幾次。民眾黨的立法委員也開過記者會了。你看一下。銀報從台元綠能搬走了上億元。台元說會配合司法調查。\n我給你看一個圖齁我們看一下這個圖這個壁為什麼變成雲暴涉入臺原利能這個壁案一開始啊這塊土地北門暗場這個土地啊開始成熟人是臺原利能結果呢到你看右邊\n案場後來轉給銀豹投資公司以後銀豹已經賺了錢了喔結果後來突然又出現那個額外要支出上億元給縱橫家有限公司結果啦這個縱橫家有限公司現在大家在質疑說包括人家去檢紀啊他是不是銀豹就是部長常常在講這個炒股的銀豹他跟縱橫家到底什麼關係縱橫家是不是他的紙帳公司有三個很特別的所在第一個\n銀豹跟縱橫家剛好設在同一個地址,兩家公司是同樣一個地址。縱橫家聯絡人剛好也是銀豹人員的經理。更離譜的是什麼?縱橫家本來說不到錢。他從台元利冷那邊搬走了快一億元,掏空了快一億。他要不到錢,誰去幫他要錢?銀豹的創辦人張建偉出面去投資。\n所以我在講剛剛總統說要你們好好去辦對不對那我今天正式的提醒這個案子要好好辦好不好好雲豹怎麼樣掏空了雲豹怎麼掏空了臺原綠能我們關注他的資產這個案子要好好辦好第二個我要給你看一張照片全國綠能綠能當然我們是高雷嘛可是綠能是不是變成一個後援會變成一個黑金碧暗的一個後援大會你看這張圖上面的陳起義落跑了臺原綠能\n這是在2000年的時候蔡英文總統要連任的時候這個後援會上面陳祺毅參加了現在落跑了立洋建設的古聖徽這就是台南的八十八槍他從台電的不法所得檢查官請知書怎麼說從台電要取得的不法所得九十一億\n對對那這個就是要不只要踩煞車這個弊案還要更清楚好不好這個案子地洋建設這個案子裡面牽扯到\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n他光是在章兵工業區那個整個專案的開發到現在案子監察已經糾正了這個案子你們也要好好查有有我們一定要叫他要把所有的股權回復到可控制的狀況在右邊你看已經點了三個人你看開洋集團的蔡中榮跟右邊跟他的弟弟\n這個也是這次台言綠能裡面都涉案的所以剛剛我一開始講了總統不是只有喊話說叫陳起義回來要嚴辦趕快把人抓到這是一個第二個經濟部的角色你們有提到三個解決方案嘛對不對可是更重要如果是眾所矚目的案子你們要好好辦好不好好接下來我看一下我看你們提了三個改善的這個方式我覺得應該是要肯定的可是處長你有沒有看到這個三個方式裡面少了一個正本清源\n其實這三個方法都是重要的可是更重要是什麼?就是因為裡面的利潤利益太大嘛所以要正本清也就是說讓那個不法所得第一個不要那麼高第一個他應該要公開透明啊你讚不讚成?讚成我讚成我讚成公開透明這個最新的你看來你看一下這個案子是昨天最新的大家看倒數地方你看業者一口氣可以賺走台電多少錢?長達20年的再生能源的電費\n四億四千多萬。你看,一個是中華、一個是中華、竹塘、一個是芬林的二輪。那裡面出現了什麼?就是為什麼利潤會這麼大?我今天提一個非常具體的建議喔,這邊。利潤這麼大一個很重要的源頭就是等過電價太高了。對不對?你看一下,我整理資料給你看。\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案\n市長你看,上一張你看一下,你看一下德國的狀況德國是在2000年實施再生能源法他一開始跟我們台灣一樣喔也是採取短過電價對不對,這邊是三年嘛那給比較高的這個價格,比較好的這個價格嘛\n那麽現在他當初裝的跟我們一樣啊那我們現在是產生了弊案你看人家後來德國市場成熟以後2017年他是修訂了11G2017就引入變成是競標了就是等過電價是要退場的然後讓這個競標的機制進來你看日本日本是在2012年導入等過這個制度然後後來呢推動光電發展以後技術成熟以後日本為了降低成本\n他就開始從2017年引進了競標的旗幟本期今天為什麼要提出這個質詢你們那個三大措施是好的可是正本清源就是因為賭過電價這個地方出了問題了可以用可是像德國跟日本一段時間你為了降低成本對不對你把那個利潤降下來那對台電也很好啊好來所以我具體的要求來我們看一下下一張你看喔賭過機制先好好檢討一下如果像德國像日本\n市場成熟了他至少有三個,你看至少有三個好處他如果退場的話避免過高的利益導致綠電蟑螂橫行必斷重生這是第一個好處第二個會弱使你剛三個方案裡面真正的公開透明公平競爭第三個台電欠錢欠價嘛對不對虧損累累嘛對不對以後公開競標完之後他的價格就會降下來合理的價格所以他至少有三個好處好那我現在具體的要求第一\n一個禮拜內一個禮拜內你評估請經濟部評估什麼時候讓等過機制可以退場跟德國跟日本一樣轉變成是競標的機制你給我一個很具體的評估報告好不好現在光點沒有等過啦\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：\n提出你們的修正版本。好來最後我再看一下最後你這三個點裡面齁我肯定你們之前總統提過之後還有卓議院長說你要提出個解決方案你們提了三個點嘛可是一定要落實好不好我是嘉義人來我們看下一張嘉義人請給咱們發聲一下大寶這張大寶你也很傷心嘛對不對民眾那種無辜他已經跟佳信政府已經存傾了齁\n結果你看宮殿那一則在沒有跟村民取得共識之下他就開始去施工啊你看自己人多可憐委員這個案現在我自己會跟居民說這個案沒有跟地方居民溝通現在都是心事騙人在那邊沒有在動工一定要跟居民溝通而且居民溝通的時候才可以再動工這個案我們有在追蹤對喔有夠可憐的說什麼那個怪手司機跟我們說你不讓開我就把你連死太可憐了吧這會不會太殘忍啊\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案。\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n我們現在已經先改掉了,事前就要先去溝通。我們已經事前在溝通,我們這個已經在改了所以這一個跟村民的溝通還要同意嘛,對不對?因為這個過程裡面要公開透明化,這可以避免利能商人在恨生、利病在重生,這個很重要。第三個我剛剛提了一個基本的改革方案\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:20.300 --> 00:47.203\n來,請先聯次長請經濟部聯次長委員好處長今天要討論再生能源這幾天綠營的弊案引起很大討論包括賴清德總統昨天都談話說要陳啟毅禁訴到案而且他要中央跟地方要檢討整個行政流程跟兔節\n\n00:48.635 --> 00:52.296\n條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：\n\n01:14.963 --> 01:42.959\n跟委員報告這個我們目前已經開過好幾次會齁跟所有的地方政府還有我們甚至把法務部都找進來齁還有農業部相關單位還有環境部我們都我看你們有三大三大方案那當然一個一個來討論啦包括跟地方的溝通什麼我覺得這個方法三個看起來還不錯可是有些地方在補強更重要的要先辦一些大家矚目的案子啊我先講一個重要的案子就是林柏定啊他說\n\n01:47.072 --> 02:10.618\n銀報草果對不對?他不是聯絡了金管會說要去查他有沒有草果對不對?那事實上銀報跟你們也很有關係啊。銀報牽扯到台灣綠能的這個弊案。這個媒體有報導過好幾次。民眾黨的立法委員也開過記者會了。你看一下。銀報從台元綠能搬走了上億元。台元說會配合司法調查。\n\n02:12.093 --> 02:27.130\n我給你看一個圖齁我們看一下這個圖這個壁為什麼變成雲暴涉入臺原利能這個壁案一開始啊這塊土地北門暗場這個土地啊開始成熟人是臺原利能結果呢到你看右邊\n\n02:28.271 --> 02:55.113\n案場後來轉給銀豹投資公司以後銀豹已經賺了錢了喔結果後來突然又出現那個額外要支出上億元給縱橫家有限公司結果啦這個縱橫家有限公司現在大家在質疑說包括人家去檢紀啊他是不是銀豹就是部長常常在講這個炒股的銀豹他跟縱橫家到底什麼關係縱橫家是不是他的紙帳公司有三個很特別的所在第一個\n\n02:56.318 --> 03:19.156\n銀豹跟縱橫家剛好設在同一個地址,兩家公司是同樣一個地址。縱橫家聯絡人剛好也是銀豹人員的經理。更離譜的是什麼?縱橫家本來說不到錢。他從台元利冷那邊搬走了快一億元,掏空了快一億。他要不到錢,誰去幫他要錢?銀豹的創辦人張建偉出面去投資。\n\n03:25.666 --> 03:51.308\n所以我在講剛剛總統說要你們好好去辦對不對那我今天正式的提醒這個案子要好好辦好不好好雲豹怎麼樣掏空了雲豹怎麼掏空了臺原綠能我們關注他的資產這個案子要好好辦好第二個我要給你看一張照片全國綠能綠能當然我們是高雷嘛可是綠能是不是變成一個後援會變成一個黑金碧暗的一個後援大會你看這張圖上面的陳起義落跑了臺原綠能\n\n03:55.268 --> 04:16.322\n這是在2000年的時候蔡英文總統要連任的時候這個後援會上面陳祺毅參加了現在落跑了立洋建設的古聖徽這就是台南的八十八槍他從台電的不法所得檢查官請知書怎麼說從台電要取得的不法所得九十一億\n\n04:17.407 --> 04:21.850\n對對那這個就是要不只要踩煞車這個弊案還要更清楚好不好這個案子地洋建設這個案子裡面牽扯到\n\n04:38.356 --> 04:40.918\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n\n04:54.448 --> 05:11.293\n他光是在章兵工業區那個整個專案的開發到現在案子監察已經糾正了這個案子你們也要好好查有有我們一定要叫他要把所有的股權回復到可控制的狀況在右邊你看已經點了三個人你看開洋集團的蔡中榮跟右邊跟他的弟弟\n\n05:13.431 --> 05:41.616\n這個也是這次台言綠能裡面都涉案的所以剛剛我一開始講了總統不是只有喊話說叫陳起義回來要嚴辦趕快把人抓到這是一個第二個經濟部的角色你們有提到三個解決方案嘛對不對可是更重要如果是眾所矚目的案子你們要好好辦好不好好接下來我看一下我看你們提了三個改善的這個方式我覺得應該是要肯定的可是處長你有沒有看到這個三個方式裡面少了一個正本清源\n\n05:43.206 --> 06:10.519\n其實這三個方法都是重要的可是更重要是什麼?就是因為裡面的利潤利益太大嘛所以要正本清也就是說讓那個不法所得第一個不要那麼高第一個他應該要公開透明啊你讚不讚成?讚成我讚成我讚成公開透明這個最新的你看來你看一下這個案子是昨天最新的大家看倒數地方你看業者一口氣可以賺走台電多少錢?長達20年的再生能源的電費\n\n06:12.148 --> 06:37.071\n四億四千多萬。你看,一個是中華、一個是中華、竹塘、一個是芬林的二輪。那裡面出現了什麼?就是為什麼利潤會這麼大?我今天提一個非常具體的建議喔,這邊。利潤這麼大一個很重要的源頭就是等過電價太高了。對不對?你看一下,我整理資料給你看。\n\n06:39.144 --> 06:41.945\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案\n\n07:06.778 --> 07:17.068\n市長你看,上一張你看一下,你看一下德國的狀況德國是在2000年實施再生能源法他一開始跟我們台灣一樣喔也是採取短過電價對不對,這邊是三年嘛那給比較高的這個價格,比較好的這個價格嘛\n\n07:20.117 --> 07:39.030\n那麽現在他當初裝的跟我們一樣啊那我們現在是產生了弊案你看人家後來德國市場成熟以後2017年他是修訂了11G2017就引入變成是競標了就是等過電價是要退場的然後讓這個競標的機制進來你看日本日本是在2012年導入等過這個制度然後後來呢推動光電發展以後技術成熟以後日本為了降低成本\n\n07:50.497 --> 08:18.552\n他就開始從2017年引進了競標的旗幟本期今天為什麼要提出這個質詢你們那個三大措施是好的可是正本清源就是因為賭過電價這個地方出了問題了可以用可是像德國跟日本一段時間你為了降低成本對不對你把那個利潤降下來那對台電也很好啊好來所以我具體的要求來我們看一下下一張你看喔賭過機制先好好檢討一下如果像德國像日本\n\n08:19.577 --> 08:47.162\n市場成熟了他至少有三個,你看至少有三個好處他如果退場的話避免過高的利益導致綠電蟑螂橫行必斷重生這是第一個好處第二個會弱使你剛三個方案裡面真正的公開透明公平競爭第三個台電欠錢欠價嘛對不對虧損累累嘛對不對以後公開競標完之後他的價格就會降下來合理的價格所以他至少有三個好處好那我現在具體的要求第一\n\n08:48.547 --> 09:04.271\n一個禮拜內一個禮拜內你評估請經濟部評估什麼時候讓等過機制可以退場跟德國跟日本一樣轉變成是競標的機制你給我一個很具體的評估報告好不好現在光點沒有等過啦\n\n09:05.491 --> 09:07.992\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：\n\n09:32.728 --> 09:51.976\n提出你們的修正版本。好來最後我再看一下最後你這三個點裡面齁我肯定你們之前總統提過之後還有卓議院長說你要提出個解決方案你們提了三個點嘛可是一定要落實好不好我是嘉義人來我們看下一張嘉義人請給咱們發聲一下大寶這張大寶你也很傷心嘛對不對民眾那種無辜他已經跟佳信政府已經存傾了齁\n\n10:00.698 --> 10:29.447\n結果你看宮殿那一則在沒有跟村民取得共識之下他就開始去施工啊你看自己人多可憐委員這個案現在我自己會跟居民說這個案沒有跟地方居民溝通現在都是心事騙人在那邊沒有在動工一定要跟居民溝通而且居民溝通的時候才可以再動工這個案我們有在追蹤對喔有夠可憐的說什麼那個怪手司機跟我們說你不讓開我就把你連死太可憐了吧這會不會太殘忍啊\n\n10:30.797 --> 10:31.898\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查\n\n10:43.544 --> 10:46.166\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n\n11:01.059 --> 11:02.460\n條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案。\n\n11:19.838 --> 11:21.739\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n\n11:49.332 --> 12:09.606\n我們現在已經先改掉了,事前就要先去溝通。我們已經事前在溝通,我們這個已經在改了所以這一個跟村民的溝通還要同意嘛,對不對?因為這個過程裡面要公開透明化,這可以避免利能商人在恨生、利病在重生,這個很重要。第三個我剛剛提了一個基本的改革方案\n\n12:10.146 --> 12:13.408\n條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、\n\n12:37.082 --> 12:39.573\n條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查\n\n","segments":[{"start":20.3,"end":47.203,"text":"來,請先聯次長請經濟部聯次長委員好處長今天要討論再生能源這幾天綠營的弊案引起很大討論包括賴清德總統昨天都談話說要陳啟毅禁訴到案而且他要中央跟地方要檢討整個行政流程跟兔節"},{"start":48.635,"end":52.296,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":74.963,"end":102.959,"text":"跟委員報告這個我們目前已經開過好幾次會齁跟所有的地方政府還有我們甚至把法務部都找進來齁還有農業部相關單位還有環境部我們都我看你們有三大三大方案那當然一個一個來討論啦包括跟地方的溝通什麼我覺得這個方法三個看起來還不錯可是有些地方在補強更重要的要先辦一些大家矚目的案子啊我先講一個重要的案子就是林柏定啊他說"},{"start":107.072,"end":130.618,"text":"銀報草果對不對?他不是聯絡了金管會說要去查他有沒有草果對不對?那事實上銀報跟你們也很有關係啊。銀報牽扯到台灣綠能的這個弊案。這個媒體有報導過好幾次。民眾黨的立法委員也開過記者會了。你看一下。銀報從台元綠能搬走了上億元。台元說會配合司法調查。"},{"start":132.093,"end":147.13,"text":"我給你看一個圖齁我們看一下這個圖這個壁為什麼變成雲暴涉入臺原利能這個壁案一開始啊這塊土地北門暗場這個土地啊開始成熟人是臺原利能結果呢到你看右邊"},{"start":148.271,"end":175.113,"text":"案場後來轉給銀豹投資公司以後銀豹已經賺了錢了喔結果後來突然又出現那個額外要支出上億元給縱橫家有限公司結果啦這個縱橫家有限公司現在大家在質疑說包括人家去檢紀啊他是不是銀豹就是部長常常在講這個炒股的銀豹他跟縱橫家到底什麼關係縱橫家是不是他的紙帳公司有三個很特別的所在第一個"},{"start":176.318,"end":199.156,"text":"銀豹跟縱橫家剛好設在同一個地址,兩家公司是同樣一個地址。縱橫家聯絡人剛好也是銀豹人員的經理。更離譜的是什麼?縱橫家本來說不到錢。他從台元利冷那邊搬走了快一億元,掏空了快一億。他要不到錢,誰去幫他要錢?銀豹的創辦人張建偉出面去投資。"},{"start":205.666,"end":231.308,"text":"所以我在講剛剛總統說要你們好好去辦對不對那我今天正式的提醒這個案子要好好辦好不好好雲豹怎麼樣掏空了雲豹怎麼掏空了臺原綠能我們關注他的資產這個案子要好好辦好第二個我要給你看一張照片全國綠能綠能當然我們是高雷嘛可是綠能是不是變成一個後援會變成一個黑金碧暗的一個後援大會你看這張圖上面的陳起義落跑了臺原綠能"},{"start":235.268,"end":256.322,"text":"這是在2000年的時候蔡英文總統要連任的時候這個後援會上面陳祺毅參加了現在落跑了立洋建設的古聖徽這就是台南的八十八槍他從台電的不法所得檢查官請知書怎麼說從台電要取得的不法所得九十一億"},{"start":257.407,"end":261.85,"text":"對對那這個就是要不只要踩煞車這個弊案還要更清楚好不好這個案子地洋建設這個案子裡面牽扯到"},{"start":278.356,"end":280.918,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":294.448,"end":311.293,"text":"他光是在章兵工業區那個整個專案的開發到現在案子監察已經糾正了這個案子你們也要好好查有有我們一定要叫他要把所有的股權回復到可控制的狀況在右邊你看已經點了三個人你看開洋集團的蔡中榮跟右邊跟他的弟弟"},{"start":313.431,"end":341.616,"text":"這個也是這次台言綠能裡面都涉案的所以剛剛我一開始講了總統不是只有喊話說叫陳起義回來要嚴辦趕快把人抓到這是一個第二個經濟部的角色你們有提到三個解決方案嘛對不對可是更重要如果是眾所矚目的案子你們要好好辦好不好好接下來我看一下我看你們提了三個改善的這個方式我覺得應該是要肯定的可是處長你有沒有看到這個三個方式裡面少了一個正本清源"},{"start":343.206,"end":370.519,"text":"其實這三個方法都是重要的可是更重要是什麼?就是因為裡面的利潤利益太大嘛所以要正本清也就是說讓那個不法所得第一個不要那麼高第一個他應該要公開透明啊你讚不讚成?讚成我讚成我讚成公開透明這個最新的你看來你看一下這個案子是昨天最新的大家看倒數地方你看業者一口氣可以賺走台電多少錢?長達20年的再生能源的電費"},{"start":372.148,"end":397.071,"text":"四億四千多萬。你看,一個是中華、一個是中華、竹塘、一個是芬林的二輪。那裡面出現了什麼?就是為什麼利潤會這麼大?我今天提一個非常具體的建議喔,這邊。利潤這麼大一個很重要的源頭就是等過電價太高了。對不對?你看一下,我整理資料給你看。"},{"start":399.144,"end":401.945,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案"},{"start":426.778,"end":437.068,"text":"市長你看,上一張你看一下,你看一下德國的狀況德國是在2000年實施再生能源法他一開始跟我們台灣一樣喔也是採取短過電價對不對,這邊是三年嘛那給比較高的這個價格,比較好的這個價格嘛"},{"start":440.117,"end":459.03,"text":"那麽現在他當初裝的跟我們一樣啊那我們現在是產生了弊案你看人家後來德國市場成熟以後2017年他是修訂了11G2017就引入變成是競標了就是等過電價是要退場的然後讓這個競標的機制進來你看日本日本是在2012年導入等過這個制度然後後來呢推動光電發展以後技術成熟以後日本為了降低成本"},{"start":470.497,"end":498.552,"text":"他就開始從2017年引進了競標的旗幟本期今天為什麼要提出這個質詢你們那個三大措施是好的可是正本清源就是因為賭過電價這個地方出了問題了可以用可是像德國跟日本一段時間你為了降低成本對不對你把那個利潤降下來那對台電也很好啊好來所以我具體的要求來我們看一下下一張你看喔賭過機制先好好檢討一下如果像德國像日本"},{"start":499.577,"end":527.162,"text":"市場成熟了他至少有三個,你看至少有三個好處他如果退場的話避免過高的利益導致綠電蟑螂橫行必斷重生這是第一個好處第二個會弱使你剛三個方案裡面真正的公開透明公平競爭第三個台電欠錢欠價嘛對不對虧損累累嘛對不對以後公開競標完之後他的價格就會降下來合理的價格所以他至少有三個好處好那我現在具體的要求第一"},{"start":528.547,"end":544.271,"text":"一個禮拜內一個禮拜內你評估請經濟部評估什麼時候讓等過機制可以退場跟德國跟日本一樣轉變成是競標的機制你給我一個很具體的評估報告好不好現在光點沒有等過啦"},{"start":545.491,"end":547.992,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":572.728,"end":591.976,"text":"提出你們的修正版本。好來最後我再看一下最後你這三個點裡面齁我肯定你們之前總統提過之後還有卓議院長說你要提出個解決方案你們提了三個點嘛可是一定要落實好不好我是嘉義人來我們看下一張嘉義人請給咱們發聲一下大寶這張大寶你也很傷心嘛對不對民眾那種無辜他已經跟佳信政府已經存傾了齁"},{"start":600.698,"end":629.447,"text":"結果你看宮殿那一則在沒有跟村民取得共識之下他就開始去施工啊你看自己人多可憐委員這個案現在我自己會跟居民說這個案沒有跟地方居民溝通現在都是心事騙人在那邊沒有在動工一定要跟居民溝通而且居民溝通的時候才可以再動工這個案我們有在追蹤對喔有夠可憐的說什麼那個怪手司機跟我們說你不讓開我就把你連死太可憐了吧這會不會太殘忍啊"},{"start":630.797,"end":631.898,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查"},{"start":643.544,"end":646.166,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":661.059,"end":662.46,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案。"},{"start":679.838,"end":681.739,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":709.332,"end":729.606,"text":"我們現在已經先改掉了,事前就要先去溝通。我們已經事前在溝通,我們這個已經在改了所以這一個跟村民的溝通還要同意嘛,對不對?因為這個過程裡面要公開透明化,這可以避免利能商人在恨生、利病在重生,這個很重要。第三個我剛剛提了一個基本的改革方案"},{"start":730.146,"end":733.408,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":757.082,"end":759.573,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":677,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時19分）請連次長。"],["主席：請經濟部連次長。"],["連次長錦漳：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：次長，今天討論再生能源，這幾天綠能的弊案引起很大討論，包括賴清德總統昨天喊話說要陳啓昱儘速到案，而且他要中央跟地方檢討整個行政流程，跟杜絕綠能的一些蟑螂。當然，我先表達我覺得總統不是應該只有喊話，他應該下令要檢警調趕快把陳啓昱逮捕歸案，這個是比喊話更重要。第一個，我就要問你了，總統叫你們中央到地方要進一步檢討行政流程還有審查機制，你們準備要怎麼做來杜絕綠能的這些弊案？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，我們目前已經開過好幾次會，跟所有地方政府，還有我們甚至把法務部都找進來，還有農農業部相關單位、環境部，我們目前都在進行。"],["張委員啓楷：我看你們有三大方案，待會一個一個來討論，包括跟地方的溝通什麼的，我覺得這三個方法看起來還不錯，可是有些地方要再補強，更重要的是要先辦一些大家矚目的案子啊！我先講一個重要的案子，就是你們部長說雲豹炒股，對不對？他不是聯絡了金管會說要去查它有沒有炒股，對不對？事實上雲豹跟你們也很有關係啊！雲豹牽扯到臺灣綠能的弊案，這個媒體有報導過好幾次，民眾黨的立法委員也開過記者會了，你看一下，雲豹從臺鹽綠能搬走了上億元，臺鹽說會配合司法調查，我給你看一個圖，我們看一下這個圖，為什麼變成雲豹涉入臺鹽綠能這個弊案？北門案場這個土地一開始的承租人是臺鹽綠能，結果呢？你看右邊，案場後來轉給雲豹投資公司，雲豹已經賺錢了喔！後來突然又出現額外要支出上億元給縱橫家有限公司，結果這間縱橫家有限公司現在大家在質疑，包括人家去檢舉，它是不是雲豹？就是部長常常在講的炒股的雲豹，它跟縱橫家到底是什麼關係，縱橫家是不是它的紙上公司？有三個很特別的地方，第一個，雲豹跟縱橫家剛好設在同一個地址，你看內湖那個住址，兩家公司是同樣一個地址；縱橫家的聯絡人剛好也是雲豹能源的經理，更離譜的是什麼？縱橫家本來收不到錢，它從臺鹽綠能那邊搬走了快一億元、掏空了快一億，它要不到錢，誰去幫它要錢？雲豹的創辦人張建偉出面去討錢。所以我剛剛講總統說要你們好好去辦，對不對？那我今天正式的提醒，這個案子要好好辦，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：雲豹怎麼樣掏空了臺鹽綠能、我們國家的資產？這個案子要好好辦。","第二個，我要給你看一張照片，全國綠能，當然我們是鼓勵綠能嘛！可是綠能產業後援會是不是變成一個黑金弊案的後援大會？你看這張圖上面的臺鹽綠能陳啓昱落跑了，這是在2020年蔡英文總統要連任的時候，陳啓昱參加了這個後援會，現在落跑了。力暘建設的古盛煇，這個就是臺南的88槍，他從台電的不法所得，檢察官的起訴書怎麼說？從台電取得的不法所得有91億。"],["連次長錦漳：沒有啦！我們現在一毛錢都沒付，我要跟委員……"],["張委員啓楷：現在停了嘛！對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：對，我們一毛錢都沒有付。"],["張委員啓楷：我是說連檢察官的起訴書裡面都這樣寫了嘛！對不對？當然你把它踩煞車，可是這個案子就……"],["連次長錦漳：我們一毛錢都沒付。"],["張委員啓楷：對，不只要踩煞車，這個弊案還要更清楚，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：對，我們……"],["張委員啓楷：力暘建設這個案子裡面還牽扯到裡面有沒有經濟部的人員，也被起訴了嘛！對不對？這個行政處分都要去……"],["連次長錦漳：對，這個司法在處理。"],["張委員啓楷：對，都要去貫徹。你再看右邊這個聯合再生，聯合再生是監察院提的糾正案，它搬走我們國家的資產多少錢？它光是在彰濱工業區整個專案的開發，到現在監察院已經糾正了，這個案子你們也要好好查。"],["連次長錦漳：有，我們叫它一定要把所有的股權回復到可控制的狀況。"],["張委員啓楷：好，已經點了三個人，你再看右邊，開陽集團的蔡宗融跟右邊他的弟弟，也是這次台鹽綠能裡面都涉案的，所以我剛剛一開始講的，總統不是只有喊話說叫陳啓昱回來，要嚴辦，趕快把人抓到，這是一個。第二個，經濟部的角色，你們有提到三個解決方案嘛！對不對？可是更重要，如果是眾所矚目的案子，你們要好好辦，好不好？","接下來，我看你們提了三個改善的方式，我覺得應該是要肯定的，可是次長，你有沒有覺得這三個方式裡面少了一個正本清源？其實這三個方法都是重要的，可是更重要的是什麼？就是因為裡面的利潤、利益太大嘛！所以要正本清源就是讓那個不法所得，第一個、不要那麼高；第二個、它應該要公開透明啊！你贊不贊成？"],["連次長錦漳：贊成，我贊成公開……"],["張委員啓楷：來，你看一下這個最新的，這個案子是昨天最新的，大家看倒數第5行，業者一口氣可以賺走台電多少錢？長達20年再生能源的電費四億四千多萬，你看，一個是彰化竹塘，一個是雲林二崙，裡面出現什麼？就是為什麼利潤會這麼大？我今天提一個非常具體的建議，次長，利潤這麼大一個很重要的源頭就是躉購電價太高了，對不對？你看一下，我整理資料給你看，各國一開始在電價方面都會用躉購的方式，可是後來慢慢就一定會退場嘛！現在的風電就是這樣子，已經退場了，對不對？變成競標嘛！太陽能已經發生這麼多問題了，檢察官現在起訴的案子，光是太陽能的至少有50件了，有50件！為什麼？就是裡面的利潤太高，而且因為躉購電價到目前造成一個很大的問題。","我們看一下，次長，你看一下德國的狀況，德國是在2000年實施再生能源法，它一開始跟臺灣一樣也是採取躉購電價，對不對？一次20年，給比較好的價格，當初它的狀況跟我們一樣。現在我們產生了弊案，你看德國後來市場成熟以後，2017年它修訂了EEG 2017就引入變成是競標，躉購電價是要退場的，讓競標的機制進來。次長，你看日本，日本是在2012年導入躉購制度，後來推動光電發展，技術成熟了以後，日本為降低成本，從2017年開始就引進競標機制。","本席今天為什麼要提出這個質詢，你們那三大措施是好的，可是正本清源，就是因為躉購電價這個地方出了問題，可以用，可是像德國和日本，一段時間以後為了降低成本，對不對？你把那個利潤降下來，對台電也很好啊！"],["連次長錦漳：嗯。"],["張委員啓楷：所以我具體要求，躉購機制現在好好檢討一下，如果像德國、像日本市場成熟了，至少有三個好處，它如果退場的話，避免過高的利益，導致綠電蟑螂橫行，弊端叢生，這是第一個好處。第二個，落實剛剛三個方案裡面的真正的公開透明、公平競爭。第三個，台電欠錢欠到虧損累累，以後公開競標完之後價格就會降下來，合理的價格，所以至少有三個好處。","我現在具體要求，第一個，一個禮拜內請經濟部評估什麼時候可以讓躉購機制退場，跟德國、日本一樣轉變成是競標機制，你給我一個很具體的評估報告，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：現在光電沒有躉購……"],["張委員啓楷：你現在是躉購嘛！我說你現在要去檢討什麼時候變成跟風電一樣，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：三個好處我剛剛都唸給大家聽了，這三個都很具體、很重要，好不好？一個禮拜內你提出個報告。甚至要不要像德國，德國是直接入法，像我們現在提再生能源，你在修正案裡面很清楚地以法律明定它什麼時候要落日，好不好？提出你們的修正版本。","最後，這三點裡面，我肯定你們之前……總統提過後，還有卓院長說你要提出個解決方案，你們提了三個點嘛！可是一定要落實，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：我是嘉義人，嘉義前陣子發生一個……"],["連次長錦漳：大埔水災。"],["張委員啓楷：你也……"],["連次長錦漳：看起來這很……"],["張委員啓楷：很傷心，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：嗯，這個現在……"],["張委員啓楷：民眾那麼無辜，他已經跟嘉義縣政府陳情了。光電業者在沒有跟村民取得共識之下就開始施工，你看嘉義人多可憐！"],["連次長錦漳：現在我們有跟嘉義縣政府說，這個案子如果沒有跟地方居民溝通的話，這個形勢pending在那邊，沒有在動工……"],["張委員啓楷：好，一定要跟居民溝通，而且居民同意的時候才可以再動工。"],["連次長錦漳：這個案子我們有追蹤。"],["張委員啓楷：要追喔！"],["連次長錦漳：我們有追。"],["張委員啓楷：有夠可憐，他說怪手司機竟然說：你不讓開，我就把你輾死！太誇張了吧！這會不會太殘忍啊？"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["張委員啓楷：嘉義人是很善良的，結果你看那個怪手竟然可以這樣！所以第一個，它不只要溝通，村民如果沒有同意它不准再動工，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：最後我做幾個要求，這五點我就不再念了，這五點是很重要的整個改革方案，包括你怎麼確保協調機制有效性，一共五個訴求，你給我一個書面報告就好了，回去檢討，大概兩個禮拜內給我，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：這個我們在三個禮拜內，好不好？給我們三個禮拜……"],["張委員啓楷：所以躉購電價的那個檢討評估報告、什麼時候可以退場，你什麼時候可以給我們？"],["連次長錦漳：我們連這個在三個禮拜內……"],["張委員啓楷：這些都在三個禮拜內，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：三個禮拜。"],["張委員啓楷：這兩個我要求的東西，三個禮拜內都送到本席辦公室。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝，我們一起努力。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：一方面不要讓弊案再發生……"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，我們現在做到橫向溝通，還要跟地方政府……"],["張委員啓楷：辛苦一點……"],["連次長錦漳：要做SOP，剛才委員講的要公開透明，不要讓它有那個空間，我們現在跟法務部及相關單位都已經很努力在把這部分做好。"],["張委員啓楷：好。我們也肯定你們的努力，可是有了計畫一定要好好去執行，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：我們會。"],["張委員啓楷：所以首先，就是你要執行的話，第一個，你跟村民溝通，這個一定要做到，對於所有的民眾，你不是只有開個協調或說明會，一定要在他們同意之下才可以動工。"],["連次長錦漳：還有民眾黨提的那個，要怎麼去溝通，我們現在已經改掉了，事前就要先去溝通。"],["張委員啓楷：有喔？"],["連次長錦漳：這個我們現在就已經在做。"],["張委員啓楷：我代表台灣民眾黨提這個版本，你有照這個做？"],["連次長錦漳：有，我們已經事前溝通，這個已經在改了。"],["張委員啓楷：好，所以第一個是跟村民的溝通，還要同意，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，這個過程裡面要公開透明化。"],["連次長錦漳：有。"],["張委員啓楷：這可以避免……"],["連次長錦漳：還有一些資料怎麼公開透明，都有……"],["張委員啓楷：避免綠能蟑螂橫生、弊病叢生，這個很重要。","第三個，我剛剛提的基本改革方案……"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：正本清源，就是利潤太高嘛！德國和日本都用了很好的方案，他山之石可以攻錯，我們可以學人家好的地方，對不對？所以你現在好好回去檢討一下。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：既然風電躉購電價都可以改成競標了，我們趕快讓這個弊病叢生、不透明的部分，光電以後也把躉購電價換下來，變成公開競標，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：讓台電也不會虧損那麼多，可以改善台電的體質，它的財政是好的嘛！其次，弊案也會減少，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["張委員啓楷：好，我們共同努力，三個禮拜內給我方案。"],["連次長錦漳：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：次長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員。我們也請經濟部於三個禮拜內給張啓楷委員辦公室一個清楚的報告資料。","接下來請鄭天財委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-13","speakers":["呂玉玲","鄭正鈐","陳玉珍","許宇甄","徐巧芯","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","陳超明","黃國昌","黃健豪","陳昭姿","吳宗憲","蔡易餘","邱議瑩","謝衣鳯","麥玉珍","林岱樺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":101,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查：(一)本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「再生能源發展條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文\n修正草案」案、(二)本院委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「再生能源發展條例第三條條文修正草案」案、\n(三)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「再生能源發展條例第三條及第十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)本\n院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「再生能源發展條例第十九條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案」案、(五)\n本院委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「再生能源發展條例第三條條文修正草案」案（詢答）；二、審查：\n(一)本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員賴士葆\n等17人擬具「個人資料保護法第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)本\n院委員邱志偉等 22 人擬具「個人資料保護法第二十一條、第二十九條及第三十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(四)本院委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(五)本院台\n灣民眾黨黨團擬具「個人資料保護法第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、\n(六)本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員許宇甄等\n22人擬具「個人資料保護法第六條條文修正草案」案（詢答）；三、審查：(一)本院委員陳亭妃\n等16人擬具「離島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員鄭天財等22人擬具「離\n島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「離島建設條例增訂第\n十三條之一及第十三條之二條文草案」案、(四)本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「離島建設條例增訂\n第十八條之一條文草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「離島建設條例第二條及第十五條\n之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員陳瑩等18人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」\n案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00003"}}}