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00:00:56,400\n議員吳沛\n\n4\n00:01:13,670 --> 00:01:28,699\n那這樣到時候草草定案全新的一個部會變成到最後是換湯不換藥那大家都坐白宮了可是我也要讓你看一下整個運動部的籌備這些大事記裡面你看這個113年6月18號體育運動政策白皮書跟體育及運動發展部的一個規劃論壇有中部廠113年6月21號是南部廠113年7月11號是東部廠\n\n5\n00:01:42,918 --> 00:01:50,045\n然後113年的7月15號是北部場8月15號是整個行政院\n\n6\n00:01:51,588 --> 00:02:11,947\n會中院長宣布將成立體育跟運動發展部的籌備小組。到了9月9號,體育運動發展部諮詢小組的第一次會議。9月19號,第二次的一個諮詢小組的一個會議。9月23號,就是第三次。我為什麼去提這一些?就是說,雖然有這樣這些會議,我還是覺得這都很慘。\n\n7\n00:02:19,465 --> 00:02:48,618\n都非常非常的一個倉促啦。就當然各個政黨我相信很多的委員都希望說有一個運動部的一個成立。我要你覺得說是升格,但是行政院就說不是升格。啊不然輸在你。你要怎麼說輸在你。就你生出來就好了。但重點喔重點喔你好不容易經過多次的會議凝聚這次的一個組織法。一個組織法。所以我要請教你的就是說這個討論過程當中你人事總書家你到底有去參悟嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:50,675 --> 00:02:52,776\n你提供什麼樣的意見嗎?這是重點嗎?你有參與嗎?有啊!有啊!不然去那裡說什麼?我們聽什麼?你總是要有你的意見啦!重點你也知道我要問什麼?你這個屁股到底是怎麼生出來的?\n\n9\n00:03:04,973 --> 00:03:24,589\n這400個人大概他是分階段禁用啦因為說這個新的運動部的一個組成我們希望援引這一些有運動賽事經驗的人到公部門來所以我們在任用資格上面也有開放就比照教育人員任用條例讓他可以進來那是一個教育人員任用條例進國發會相關機關有在用第二個就是用聘用的\n\n10\n00:03:32,316 --> 00:03:32,496\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n\n11\n00:03:53,595 --> 00:04:00,062\n一百三十四,一百三十五差一個啦。好,那你這樣整個運動部,你說會不會失敗?這樣差幾個你知道嗎?兩百六十五?兩百六十五,但是那不是一檔喔,他要分幾個檔要補開的喔。分幾個檔?\n\n12\n00:04:07,745 --> 00:04:37,388\n啊你前一年如果說他的權責劃分清楚你意思就是說沒關係你運風不當成立齁第一年7號就好啊第二年7號減一數啊啊因為那個人沒夠啊給做擔保啊第三年啊人家給補寡去買啊你沒夠7號啊嗯啊前一年幾年我為什麼開宗明義就跟你講說政府注重的是一個效能啊倒也不是說我要一年一年慢慢地補如果你真的是需要那麼多人的話需要那麼多人的話\n\n13\n00:04:38,251 --> 00:04:39,932\n三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具«行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n14\n00:05:09,087 --> 00:05:10,187\n五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n15\n00:05:39,517 --> 00:05:40,277\n議員徐富癸等21人擬具\n\n16\n00:05:59,929 --> 00:06:08,057\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具:「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案件中,你本來就是一部一署三中心,什麼叫做移過來,它本來就會在那個地方,那你本來就是新成立一個部會,你體育署本來就是存在,那你還有三個中心,你怎麼可以說是移過來,那134那個不會變的啊。\n\n17\n00:06:19,384 --> 00:06:39,514\n委員報告啦,那些中心那些人要補那麼快,但是你若說沒有人玩齁,我們還要提缺啊,提議行政缺,還要提缺,還要去科技,還要再來,它會有一兩年的一個時間差嘛,你若運動中心,產業中心,那些不用科技的組織嘛,那些直接就過來,那些人在補充那麼快啦。我告訴你,院長。\n\n18\n00:06:42,515 --> 00:06:47,266\n你還聽不懂我的意思。我的意思就是說,你甚至很堅持跟他講說,你的人也沒那麼多,你的五十個就夠了。\n\n19\n00:06:52,725 --> 00:06:53,526\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具«行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案案件》案。\n\n20\n00:07:15,103 --> 00:07:22,049\n他整個政府的效能才會做出來,那你就要去把人家編購。你如果認為說不想賺到就夠了,我也支持你,很好啊。\n\n21\n00:07:25,782 --> 00:07:51,962\n我當一個人事長我讓整個政府產生很大的一個效能又可以節省那麼多的一個公帑有什麼不對?所以我的意思是你既然參與了那既然你認為要給400個這樣奉獻我就有疑慮是這個問題我給委員補充這三百個加一百個不是用花的因為從他的執掌組織執掌幾個師幾個科要編制多少人來推動哪些業務\n\n22\n00:07:53,203 --> 00:08:04,447\n主要以業務為主體,業務然後再攤出來,算算會看三百會如何出來。業務一個計算的公式。那你幾年要曝光?你大了啦?你認為多少?多久?四年?那應該是新的部要提出來他的一個禁用計畫,我們再來全力協助他。所以你認為這幾年他們的業務就是很少的囉?\n\n23\n00:08:20,127 --> 00:08:22,830\n吳沛憶等21人擬具«行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案。\n\n24\n00:08:45,391 --> 00:08:58,845\n國務令委員的行政效率,這是你任總努力的一個目標嘛。我去看喔,你像AI關鍵能力的一個培養,連任總處你們透過一等的公務員學習平台,這個都有些成果。可是你注意把它看,大家去都在衝啊,你看看,你簡單看一看。你的monitor應該就有啊,大家去都英文而已。\n\n25\n00:09:05,493 --> 00:09:25,339\n因為AI那麼多的一個功能啊你去把它看你光是英文的選讀課程就25萬人次認證時數高達26萬小時代表我們公立人都很喜歡這個平台這是好事這是好事但是呢我比較擔心的就是說你一些新的政策跟可能的方向可能就卡在這個\n\n26\n00:09:26,459 --> 00:09:27,580\n我委員報告今年7月開始我們有6大類的課程\n\n27\n00:09:49,893 --> 00:09:50,133\n二）委員吳沛憶\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3911\t6932\t謝謝昭偉,有請我們人事長。委員老張。人事長,其實我倒會覺得你的職務跟其他的部會不一樣。一個政府,其實追究的是一個有效能的一個政府。倒不是說人一直擴張,然後大而無當。\n30270\t32832\t〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n56380\t56400\t議員吳沛\n73670\t88699\t那這樣到時候草草定案全新的一個部會變成到最後是換湯不換藥那大家都坐白宮了可是我也要讓你看一下整個運動部的籌備這些大事記裡面你看這個113年6月18號體育運動政策白皮書跟體育及運動發展部的一個規劃論壇有中部廠113年6月21號是南部廠113年7月11號是東部廠\n102918\t110045\t然後113年的7月15號是北部場8月15號是整個行政院\n111588\t131947\t會中院長宣布將成立體育跟運動發展部的籌備小組。到了9月9號,體育運動發展部諮詢小組的第一次會議。9月19號,第二次的一個諮詢小組的一個會議。9月23號,就是第三次。我為什麼去提這一些?就是說,雖然有這樣這些會議,我還是覺得這都很慘。\n139465\t168618\t都非常非常的一個倉促啦。就當然各個政黨我相信很多的委員都希望說有一個運動部的一個成立。我要你覺得說是升格,但是行政院就說不是升格。啊不然輸在你。你要怎麼說輸在你。就你生出來就好了。但重點喔重點喔你好不容易經過多次的會議凝聚這次的一個組織法。一個組織法。所以我要請教你的就是說這個討論過程當中你人事總書家你到底有去參悟嗎?\n170675\t172776\t你提供什麼樣的意見嗎?這是重點嗎?你有參與嗎?有啊!有啊!不然去那裡說什麼?我們聽什麼?你總是要有你的意見啦!重點你也知道我要問什麼?你這個屁股到底是怎麼生出來的?\n184973\t204589\t這400個人大概他是分階段禁用啦因為說這個新的運動部的一個組成我們希望援引這一些有運動賽事經驗的人到公部門來所以我們在任用資格上面也有開放就比照教育人員任用條例讓他可以進來那是一個教育人員任用條例進國發會相關機關有在用第二個就是用聘用的\n212316\t212496\t議員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n233595\t240062\t一百三十四,一百三十五差一個啦。好,那你這樣整個運動部,你說會不會失敗?這樣差幾個你知道嗎?兩百六十五?兩百六十五,但是那不是一檔喔,他要分幾個檔要補開的喔。分幾個檔?\n247745\t277388\t啊你前一年如果說他的權責劃分清楚你意思就是說沒關係你運風不當成立齁第一年7號就好啊第二年7號減一數啊啊因為那個人沒夠啊給做擔保啊第三年啊人家給補寡去買啊你沒夠7號啊嗯啊前一年幾年我為什麼開宗明義就跟你講說政府注重的是一個效能啊倒也不是說我要一年一年慢慢地補如果你真的是需要那麼多人的話需要那麼多人的話\n278251\t279932\t三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n309087\t310187\t五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n339517\t340277\t議員徐富癸等21人擬具\n359929\t368057\t議員吳沛憶等21人擬具:「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案 案件中,你本來就是一部一署三中心,什麼叫做移過來,它本來就會在那個地方,那你本來就是新成立一個部會,你體育署本來就是存在,那你還有三個中心,你怎麼可以說是移過來,那134那個不會變的啊。\n379384\t399514\t委員報告啦,那些中心那些人要補那麼快,但是你若說沒有人玩齁,我們還要提缺啊,提議行政缺,還要提缺,還要去科技,還要再來,它會有一兩年的一個時間差嘛,你若運動中心,產業中心,那些不用科技的組織嘛,那些直接就過來,那些人在補充那麼快啦。我告訴你,院長。\n402515\t407266\t你還聽不懂我的意思。我的意思就是說,你甚至很堅持跟他講說,你的人也沒那麼多,你的五十個就夠了。\n412725\t413526\t議員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案 案件》案。\n435103\t442049\t他整個政府的效能才會做出來,那你就要去把人家編購。你如果認為說不想賺到就夠了,我也支持你,很好啊。\n445782\t471962\t我當一個人事長我讓整個政府產生很大的一個效能又可以節省那麼多的一個公帑有什麼不對?所以我的意思是你既然參與了那既然你認為要給400個 這樣奉獻我就有疑慮是這個問題我給委員補充這三百個加一百個不是用花的因為從他的執掌組織執掌幾個師幾個科要編制多少人來推動哪些業務\n473203\t484447\t主要以業務為主體,業務然後再攤出來,算算會看三百會如何出來。業務一個計算的公式。那你幾年要曝光?你大了啦?你認為多少?多久?四年?那應該是新的部要提出來他的一個禁用計畫,我們再來全力協助他。所以你認為這幾年他們的業務就是很少的囉?\n500127\t502830\t吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案。\n525391\t538845\t國務令委員的行政效率,這是你任總努力的一個目標嘛。我去看喔,你像AI關鍵能力的一個培養,連任總處你們透過一等的公務員學習平台,這個都有些成果。可是你注意把它看,大家去都在衝啊,你看看,你簡單看一看。你的monitor應該就有啊,大家去都英文而已。\n545493\t565339\t因為AI那麼多的一個功能啊你去把它看你光是英文的選讀課程就25萬人次認證時數高達26萬小時代表我們公立人都很喜歡這個平台這是好事這是好事但是呢我比較擔心的就是說你一些新的政策跟可能的方向可能就卡在這個\n566459\t567580\t我委員報告今年7月開始我們有6大類的課程\n589893\t590133\t二）委員吳沛憶\n","txt":"謝謝昭偉,有請我們人事長。委員老張。人事長,其實我倒會覺得你的職務跟其他的部會不一樣。一個政府,其實追究的是一個有效能的一個政府。倒不是說人一直擴張,然後大而無當。\n〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n議員吳沛\n那這樣到時候草草定案全新的一個部會變成到最後是換湯不換藥那大家都坐白宮了可是我也要讓你看一下整個運動部的籌備這些大事記裡面你看這個113年6月18號體育運動政策白皮書跟體育及運動發展部的一個規劃論壇有中部廠113年6月21號是南部廠113年7月11號是東部廠\n然後113年的7月15號是北部場8月15號是整個行政院\n會中院長宣布將成立體育跟運動發展部的籌備小組。到了9月9號,體育運動發展部諮詢小組的第一次會議。9月19號,第二次的一個諮詢小組的一個會議。9月23號,就是第三次。我為什麼去提這一些?就是說,雖然有這樣這些會議,我還是覺得這都很慘。\n都非常非常的一個倉促啦。就當然各個政黨我相信很多的委員都希望說有一個運動部的一個成立。我要你覺得說是升格,但是行政院就說不是升格。啊不然輸在你。你要怎麼說輸在你。就你生出來就好了。但重點喔重點喔你好不容易經過多次的會議凝聚這次的一個組織法。一個組織法。所以我要請教你的就是說這個討論過程當中你人事總書家你到底有去參悟嗎?\n你提供什麼樣的意見嗎?這是重點嗎?你有參與嗎?有啊!有啊!不然去那裡說什麼?我們聽什麼?你總是要有你的意見啦!重點你也知道我要問什麼?你這個屁股到底是怎麼生出來的?\n這400個人大概他是分階段禁用啦因為說這個新的運動部的一個組成我們希望援引這一些有運動賽事經驗的人到公部門來所以我們在任用資格上面也有開放就比照教育人員任用條例讓他可以進來那是一個教育人員任用條例進國發會相關機關有在用第二個就是用聘用的\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n一百三十四,一百三十五差一個啦。好,那你這樣整個運動部,你說會不會失敗?這樣差幾個你知道嗎?兩百六十五?兩百六十五,但是那不是一檔喔,他要分幾個檔要補開的喔。分幾個檔?\n啊你前一年如果說他的權責劃分清楚你意思就是說沒關係你運風不當成立齁第一年7號就好啊第二年7號減一數啊啊因為那個人沒夠啊給做擔保啊第三年啊人家給補寡去買啊你沒夠7號啊嗯啊前一年幾年我為什麼開宗明義就跟你講說政府注重的是一個效能啊倒也不是說我要一年一年慢慢地補如果你真的是需要那麼多人的話需要那麼多人的話\n三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n議員徐富癸等21人擬具\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具:「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案 案件中,你本來就是一部一署三中心,什麼叫做移過來,它本來就會在那個地方,那你本來就是新成立一個部會,你體育署本來就是存在,那你還有三個中心,你怎麼可以說是移過來,那134那個不會變的啊。\n委員報告啦,那些中心那些人要補那麼快,但是你若說沒有人玩齁,我們還要提缺啊,提議行政缺,還要提缺,還要去科技,還要再來,它會有一兩年的一個時間差嘛,你若運動中心,產業中心,那些不用科技的組織嘛,那些直接就過來,那些人在補充那麼快啦。我告訴你,院長。\n你還聽不懂我的意思。我的意思就是說,你甚至很堅持跟他講說,你的人也沒那麼多,你的五十個就夠了。\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案 案件》案。\n他整個政府的效能才會做出來,那你就要去把人家編購。你如果認為說不想賺到就夠了,我也支持你,很好啊。\n我當一個人事長我讓整個政府產生很大的一個效能又可以節省那麼多的一個公帑有什麼不對?所以我的意思是你既然參與了那既然你認為要給400個 這樣奉獻我就有疑慮是這個問題我給委員補充這三百個加一百個不是用花的因為從他的執掌組織執掌幾個師幾個科要編制多少人來推動哪些業務\n主要以業務為主體,業務然後再攤出來,算算會看三百會如何出來。業務一個計算的公式。那你幾年要曝光?你大了啦?你認為多少?多久?四年?那應該是新的部要提出來他的一個禁用計畫,我們再來全力協助他。所以你認為這幾年他們的業務就是很少的囉?\n吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案。\n國務令委員的行政效率,這是你任總努力的一個目標嘛。我去看喔,你像AI關鍵能力的一個培養,連任總處你們透過一等的公務員學習平台,這個都有些成果。可是你注意把它看,大家去都在衝啊,你看看,你簡單看一看。你的monitor應該就有啊,大家去都英文而已。\n因為AI那麼多的一個功能啊你去把它看你光是英文的選讀課程就25萬人次認證時數高達26萬小時代表我們公立人都很喜歡這個平台這是好事這是好事但是呢我比較擔心的就是說你一些新的政策跟可能的方向可能就卡在這個\n我委員報告今年7月開始我們有6大類的課程\n二）委員吳沛憶\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.911 --> 00:06.932\n謝謝昭偉,有請我們人事長。委員老張。人事長,其實我倒會覺得你的職務跟其他的部會不一樣。一個政府,其實追究的是一個有效能的一個政府。倒不是說人一直擴張,然後大而無當。\n\n00:30.270 --> 00:32.832\n〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n00:56.380 --> 00:56.400\n議員吳沛\n\n01:13.670 --> 01:28.699\n那這樣到時候草草定案全新的一個部會變成到最後是換湯不換藥那大家都坐白宮了可是我也要讓你看一下整個運動部的籌備這些大事記裡面你看這個113年6月18號體育運動政策白皮書跟體育及運動發展部的一個規劃論壇有中部廠113年6月21號是南部廠113年7月11號是東部廠\n\n01:42.918 --> 01:50.045\n然後113年的7月15號是北部場8月15號是整個行政院\n\n01:51.588 --> 02:11.947\n會中院長宣布將成立體育跟運動發展部的籌備小組。到了9月9號,體育運動發展部諮詢小組的第一次會議。9月19號,第二次的一個諮詢小組的一個會議。9月23號,就是第三次。我為什麼去提這一些?就是說,雖然有這樣這些會議,我還是覺得這都很慘。\n\n02:19.465 --> 02:48.618\n都非常非常的一個倉促啦。就當然各個政黨我相信很多的委員都希望說有一個運動部的一個成立。我要你覺得說是升格,但是行政院就說不是升格。啊不然輸在你。你要怎麼說輸在你。就你生出來就好了。但重點喔重點喔你好不容易經過多次的會議凝聚這次的一個組織法。一個組織法。所以我要請教你的就是說這個討論過程當中你人事總書家你到底有去參悟嗎?\n\n02:50.675 --> 02:52.776\n你提供什麼樣的意見嗎?這是重點嗎?你有參與嗎?有啊!有啊!不然去那裡說什麼?我們聽什麼?你總是要有你的意見啦!重點你也知道我要問什麼?你這個屁股到底是怎麼生出來的?\n\n03:04.973 --> 03:24.589\n這400個人大概他是分階段禁用啦因為說這個新的運動部的一個組成我們希望援引這一些有運動賽事經驗的人到公部門來所以我們在任用資格上面也有開放就比照教育人員任用條例讓他可以進來那是一個教育人員任用條例進國發會相關機關有在用第二個就是用聘用的\n\n03:32.316 --> 03:32.496\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n\n03:53.595 --> 04:00.062\n一百三十四,一百三十五差一個啦。好,那你這樣整個運動部,你說會不會失敗?這樣差幾個你知道嗎?兩百六十五?兩百六十五,但是那不是一檔喔,他要分幾個檔要補開的喔。分幾個檔?\n\n04:07.745 --> 04:37.388\n啊你前一年如果說他的權責劃分清楚你意思就是說沒關係你運風不當成立齁第一年7號就好啊第二年7號減一數啊啊因為那個人沒夠啊給做擔保啊第三年啊人家給補寡去買啊你沒夠7號啊嗯啊前一年幾年我為什麼開宗明義就跟你講說政府注重的是一個效能啊倒也不是說我要一年一年慢慢地補如果你真的是需要那麼多人的話需要那麼多人的話\n\n04:38.251 --> 04:39.932\n三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具«行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n05:09.087 --> 05:10.187\n五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n05:39.517 --> 05:40.277\n議員徐富癸等21人擬具\n\n05:59.929 --> 06:08.057\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具:「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案件中,你本來就是一部一署三中心,什麼叫做移過來,它本來就會在那個地方,那你本來就是新成立一個部會,你體育署本來就是存在,那你還有三個中心,你怎麼可以說是移過來,那134那個不會變的啊。\n\n06:19.384 --> 06:39.514\n委員報告啦,那些中心那些人要補那麼快,但是你若說沒有人玩齁,我們還要提缺啊,提議行政缺,還要提缺,還要去科技,還要再來,它會有一兩年的一個時間差嘛,你若運動中心,產業中心,那些不用科技的組織嘛,那些直接就過來,那些人在補充那麼快啦。我告訴你,院長。\n\n06:42.515 --> 06:47.266\n你還聽不懂我的意思。我的意思就是說,你甚至很堅持跟他講說,你的人也沒那麼多,你的五十個就夠了。\n\n06:52.725 --> 06:53.526\n議員吳沛憶等21人擬具«行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案案件》案。\n\n07:15.103 --> 07:22.049\n他整個政府的效能才會做出來,那你就要去把人家編購。你如果認為說不想賺到就夠了,我也支持你,很好啊。\n\n07:25.782 --> 07:51.962\n我當一個人事長我讓整個政府產生很大的一個效能又可以節省那麼多的一個公帑有什麼不對?所以我的意思是你既然參與了那既然你認為要給400個這樣奉獻我就有疑慮是這個問題我給委員補充這三百個加一百個不是用花的因為從他的執掌組織執掌幾個師幾個科要編制多少人來推動哪些業務\n\n07:53.203 --> 08:04.447\n主要以業務為主體,業務然後再攤出來,算算會看三百會如何出來。業務一個計算的公式。那你幾年要曝光?你大了啦?你認為多少?多久?四年?那應該是新的部要提出來他的一個禁用計畫,我們再來全力協助他。所以你認為這幾年他們的業務就是很少的囉?\n\n08:20.127 --> 08:22.830\n吳沛憶等21人擬具«行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案。\n\n08:45.391 --> 08:58.845\n國務令委員的行政效率,這是你任總努力的一個目標嘛。我去看喔,你像AI關鍵能力的一個培養,連任總處你們透過一等的公務員學習平台,這個都有些成果。可是你注意把它看,大家去都在衝啊,你看看,你簡單看一看。你的monitor應該就有啊,大家去都英文而已。\n\n09:05.493 --> 09:25.339\n因為AI那麼多的一個功能啊你去把它看你光是英文的選讀課程就25萬人次認證時數高達26萬小時代表我們公立人都很喜歡這個平台這是好事這是好事但是呢我比較擔心的就是說你一些新的政策跟可能的方向可能就卡在這個\n\n09:26.459 --> 09:27.580\n我委員報告今年7月開始我們有6大類的課程\n\n09:49.893 --> 09:50.133\n二）委員吳沛憶\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.911,"end":6.932,"text":"謝謝昭偉,有請我們人事長。委員老張。人事長,其實我倒會覺得你的職務跟其他的部會不一樣。一個政府,其實追究的是一個有效能的一個政府。倒不是說人一直擴張,然後大而無當。"},{"start":30.27,"end":32.832,"text":"〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":56.38,"end":56.4,"text":"議員吳沛"},{"start":73.67,"end":88.699,"text":"那這樣到時候草草定案全新的一個部會變成到最後是換湯不換藥那大家都坐白宮了可是我也要讓你看一下整個運動部的籌備這些大事記裡面你看這個113年6月18號體育運動政策白皮書跟體育及運動發展部的一個規劃論壇有中部廠113年6月21號是南部廠113年7月11號是東部廠"},{"start":102.918,"end":110.045,"text":"然後113年的7月15號是北部場8月15號是整個行政院"},{"start":111.588,"end":131.947,"text":"會中院長宣布將成立體育跟運動發展部的籌備小組。到了9月9號,體育運動發展部諮詢小組的第一次會議。9月19號,第二次的一個諮詢小組的一個會議。9月23號,就是第三次。我為什麼去提這一些?就是說,雖然有這樣這些會議,我還是覺得這都很慘。"},{"start":139.465,"end":168.618,"text":"都非常非常的一個倉促啦。就當然各個政黨我相信很多的委員都希望說有一個運動部的一個成立。我要你覺得說是升格,但是行政院就說不是升格。啊不然輸在你。你要怎麼說輸在你。就你生出來就好了。但重點喔重點喔你好不容易經過多次的會議凝聚這次的一個組織法。一個組織法。所以我要請教你的就是說這個討論過程當中你人事總書家你到底有去參悟嗎?"},{"start":170.675,"end":172.776,"text":"你提供什麼樣的意見嗎?這是重點嗎?你有參與嗎?有啊!有啊!不然去那裡說什麼?我們聽什麼?你總是要有你的意見啦!重點你也知道我要問什麼?你這個屁股到底是怎麼生出來的?"},{"start":184.973,"end":204.589,"text":"這400個人大概他是分階段禁用啦因為說這個新的運動部的一個組成我們希望援引這一些有運動賽事經驗的人到公部門來所以我們在任用資格上面也有開放就比照教育人員任用條例讓他可以進來那是一個教育人員任用條例進國發會相關機關有在用第二個就是用聘用的"},{"start":212.316,"end":212.496,"text":"議員吳沛憶等21人擬具"},{"start":233.595,"end":240.062,"text":"一百三十四,一百三十五差一個啦。好,那你這樣整個運動部,你說會不會失敗?這樣差幾個你知道嗎?兩百六十五?兩百六十五,但是那不是一檔喔,他要分幾個檔要補開的喔。分幾個檔?"},{"start":247.745,"end":277.388,"text":"啊你前一年如果說他的權責劃分清楚你意思就是說沒關係你運風不當成立齁第一年7號就好啊第二年7號減一數啊啊因為那個人沒夠啊給做擔保啊第三年啊人家給補寡去買啊你沒夠7號啊嗯啊前一年幾年我為什麼開宗明義就跟你講說政府注重的是一個效能啊倒也不是說我要一年一年慢慢地補如果你真的是需要那麼多人的話需要那麼多人的話"},{"start":278.251,"end":279.932,"text":"三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":309.087,"end":310.187,"text":"五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具〈行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":339.517,"end":340.277,"text":"議員徐富癸等21人擬具"},{"start":359.929,"end":368.057,"text":"議員吳沛憶等21人擬具:「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案 案件中,你本來就是一部一署三中心,什麼叫做移過來,它本來就會在那個地方,那你本來就是新成立一個部會,你體育署本來就是存在,那你還有三個中心,你怎麼可以說是移過來,那134那個不會變的啊。"},{"start":379.384,"end":399.514,"text":"委員報告啦,那些中心那些人要補那麼快,但是你若說沒有人玩齁,我們還要提缺啊,提議行政缺,還要提缺,還要去科技,還要再來,它會有一兩年的一個時間差嘛,你若運動中心,產業中心,那些不用科技的組織嘛,那些直接就過來,那些人在補充那麼快啦。我告訴你,院長。"},{"start":402.515,"end":407.266,"text":"你還聽不懂我的意思。我的意思就是說,你甚至很堅持跟他講說,你的人也沒那麼多,你的五十個就夠了。"},{"start":412.725,"end":413.526,"text":"議員吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案案案 案件》案。"},{"start":435.103,"end":442.049,"text":"他整個政府的效能才會做出來,那你就要去把人家編購。你如果認為說不想賺到就夠了,我也支持你,很好啊。"},{"start":445.782,"end":471.962,"text":"我當一個人事長我讓整個政府產生很大的一個效能又可以節省那麼多的一個公帑有什麼不對?所以我的意思是你既然參與了那既然你認為要給400個 這樣奉獻我就有疑慮是這個問題我給委員補充這三百個加一百個不是用花的因為從他的執掌組織執掌幾個師幾個科要編制多少人來推動哪些業務"},{"start":473.203,"end":484.447,"text":"主要以業務為主體,業務然後再攤出來,算算會看三百會如何出來。業務一個計算的公式。那你幾年要曝光?你大了啦?你認為多少?多久?四年?那應該是新的部要提出來他的一個禁用計畫,我們再來全力協助他。所以你認為這幾年他們的業務就是很少的囉?"},{"start":500.127,"end":502.83,"text":"吳沛憶等21人擬具 «行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":525.391,"end":538.845,"text":"國務令委員的行政效率,這是你任總努力的一個目標嘛。我去看喔,你像AI關鍵能力的一個培養,連任總處你們透過一等的公務員學習平台,這個都有些成果。可是你注意把它看,大家去都在衝啊,你看看,你簡單看一看。你的monitor應該就有啊,大家去都英文而已。"},{"start":545.493,"end":565.339,"text":"因為AI那麼多的一個功能啊你去把它看你光是英文的選讀課程就25萬人次認證時數高達26萬小時代表我們公立人都很喜歡這個平台這是好事這是好事但是呢我比較擔心的就是說你一些新的政策跟可能的方向可能就卡在這個"},{"start":566.459,"end":567.58,"text":"我委員報告今年7月開始我們有6大類的課程"},{"start":589.893,"end":590.133,"text":"二）委員吳沛憶"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":712,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時31分）謝謝召委。有請人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：人事長，其實我倒覺得你的職務跟其他部會不一樣，一個政府追求的是有效能的政府，倒不是人一直擴張、大而無當，造成最後好像是人很多，權責也不清楚，冗員一大堆，這樣也不好。但是，我相信國會這邊大家所提出來的，都是每一個委員有所著墨之處。我今天想請教，關於運動部的成立，一個全新的部會不是像奇異博士一樣，手揮一下就變出來了。今年4月份我看一個在黨的朋友在逼教育部，一個月要生出升格的計畫，當初我就說不要，既然大家都覺得很重要，不要這樣急就章，到時候草草定案，全新的一個部會到最後會變成換湯不換藥，大家都做白工。可是我也要讓你看一下運動部籌備的大事記，113年6月18號體育運動政策白皮書及體育暨運動發展部規劃論壇中部場，113年6月21號是南部場，113年7月11號是東部場，113年7月15號是北部場，8月15號在行政院院會中，院長宣布將成立體育暨運動發展部籌備小組，到了9月9號體育暨運動發展部諮詢小組第一次會議，9月19號第二次的諮詢小組會議，9月23號就是第三次。我為什麼提這一些？雖然有這些會議，但我還是覺得都很趕、都非常倉促，當然我相信各個政黨、很多的委員都希望成立運動部，我一直覺得是升格，但行政院就說不是升格。你要怎麼說，隨便你！有生出來就好了。但重點在於，好不容易經過多次會議凝聚這次的組織法。我要請教你的是，在這個討論過程當中，人事總處到底有沒有參與？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有參與。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們有提供什麼樣的意見嗎？這才是重點，雖然你有參與，但不是去那邊聽人家在說什麼而已，你總是要有你的意見，重點是你知道我要問什麼，這400個到底是怎麼生出來的？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這400個人是分階段進用，因為新的運動部組成，我們希望援引這一些有運動賽事經驗的人到公部門，所以在任用資格上面也有開放，就比照教育人員任用條例讓他可以進來。那是比照教育人員任用條例，現在國發會相關機關也有在用，第二個就是採聘用，有的沒有教授、副教授的資格，也可以進來政府機關，就採聘用的方式。當然要多元的進用，不然新的部會可以做的事情就跟以前一樣。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對，但重點不在那。重點是體育署現在有135人。你現在說整個運動部要400人，這樣差幾個，你知道嗎？265。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：但那不是一年，要分好幾年才會補齊。"],["莊委員瑞雄：如果它的權責劃分清楚……你的意思是沒關係，運動部剛成立，第一年玩就好，第二年玩少一點，因為人不夠，大家就多做一點，第三年人再補一些進來，你們就不要再玩了。我為什麼開宗明義就跟你說，政府注重的是效能？倒也不是要一年一年慢慢補，如果你真的需要那麼多人，想做官的人很多，他如果有能力讓他做官也沒關係，你知不知道？我總會覺得逐年把它補足，聽起來很奇怪，對一個新部會來講的話，我不知道你的看法到底是怎樣，我是用一個請教的方式。我一直講，人事總處扣名額不是不對，站在你的立場，你本來就是要扣，因為有總員額法。政府總共要多少人，站在人總的立場，什麼人上台、什麼人當院長、什麼人掌管這個國家，要亂增加就一直增加，這也不對！站在人總的立場，也不對！但問題就是，既然你認為就需要這麼多，你本身也認為需要那麼多人，才可以達到整個部會的效能，可是你又覺得一年一年慢慢做，哪有這種邏輯？我聽不懂！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：跟委員補充一下，現在運動部成立，原來體育署的班底會移過來，移過來沒有辦法補到300個人，有些缺……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你說哪裡移過來？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：原來教育部的體育署。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不！那個本來就是一部一署三中心，什麼叫做移過來？它本來就會在那個地方。本來就是新成立一個部會，體育署本來就存在，而且還有三個中心，你怎麼可以說是移過來？135人是不會變的！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：那些中心的那些人要補比較快，如果是公務人員，我們還要提缺，體育行政缺必須去提考試缺，人再進來，會有一、兩年的時間差。如果是運動產業中心，不需要考試資格，可以直接就補進來，補充那些人比較快。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你聽不懂我的意思。我的意思是，你甚至可以很堅持跟他說，人不必那麼多，50個就夠了，又沒有什麼業務可以辦。如果人事長敢這樣講的話，立法院會支持你。你說人數很少，就可以達到整個政府的效能，小而美，我也支持你。但問題是很明顯的，我問你那麼多的議程，你都有去參與，你也認同人家，說要400個才會把整個運動部的政府效能做出來，那你就要把人家編夠。你如果認為不必，10個就夠了，我也支持你，很好！你當一個人事長，讓整個政府產生很大的效能，又可以節省那麼多的公帑，有什麼不對？所以我的意思是，你既然參與了，認為要給400個，我對這樣的方式就有疑慮，是這個問題。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員補充，300個加100個不是用喊的，因為從它的組織、職掌，有幾個司、幾個科，要編制多少人來推動哪些業務，主要以業務為主體，然後再攤出來算一算，結果要300個才夠，那有一個計算公式。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你認為大略多久？4年？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：那應該是新的部要提出它的進用計畫，我們再來全力協助它。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以你認為這幾年他們的業務就是很少的囉？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：它才剛成立，基本上150個到200個應該跑不掉。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，這個問題我最主要是要做一個釐清。最後一個問題，數位趨勢已經變成一個常態，我去看你們的整個網站裡面，公務員邁向數位未來這個部分，你們增設更多的多元課程，但無論你們員額怎麼補，公務人員的行政效率是人總努力的目標。我看到像AI關鍵能力的培養，人事總處透過「e等公務園＋學習平臺」，這個都有些成果。可是你注意看大家上去都在做什麼，你簡單看一下，你的monitor應該就有，大家上去都是學英文而已，AI有那麼多功能，可是你看光是英文的選讀課程就有25萬人次，認證時數高達26萬小時，代表我們公務人員都很喜歡這個平臺，這是好事。但是我比較擔心的是，一些新的政策與方向可能就卡在僵固的政府人員沒辦法去推行，連這個網站裡面，我覺得這個非常非常可惜，AI的相關課程好像研習的非常少，人事長，你們要去精進一下，不用緊張，我認為有很多想要學習。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：跟委員報告，從今年7月開始我們有六大類、210個課程，到目前為止有30萬人次去上，這個效率就代表大家對這個區塊非常重視，而且有興趣。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦，我是要你有一個比較精進，讓更多想學習的公務人員有一些資源和管道，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員、謝謝蘇人事長。稍後在鄭委員天財詢答完畢後休息5分鐘。","現在請麥委員玉珍發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-13","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","陳俊宇","沈發惠","林思銘","吳思瑤","羅智強","莊瑞雄","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","王鴻薇","林倩綺","謝龍介"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"11310001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員徐富癸等\n17人擬具「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「行政院組織法\n第三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 四) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」\n案、(五)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員\n陳冠廷等17人擬具「行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員范雲等16人擬具「行政院\n組織法第三條條文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院、考試院函請審議「中央行政機關組\n織基準法第二十九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中央行政機關\n組織基準法第二十九條及第三十三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「中央行政\n機關組織基準法第二十九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「中央\n行政機關組織基準法第二十九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等\n16人擬具「中央行政機關組織基準法第二十九條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員陳冠\n廷等16人擬具「中央行政機關組織基準法第二十九條條文修正草案」案；三、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管收支部分；四、審查 114年度中央政府總預算\n案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院人事行政總處主管「中央公教人員急難救助基金」收支部\n分【第三、四案僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11310001_00001"}}}