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\"非\", \"start\": 220.6, \"end\": 220.82, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 220.82, \"end\": 221.06, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 221.06, \"end\": 221.38, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 221.38, \"end\": 222.261, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 222.261, \"end\": 222.441, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 222.441, \"end\": 222.641, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 222.641, \"end\": 222.801, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 222.801, \"end\": 223.041, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 223.041, \"end\": 223.201, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"孽\", \"start\": 223.201, \"end\": 223.701, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 223.701, \"end\": 223.921, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 223.921, \"end\": 223.941, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 223.941, \"end\": 224.101, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 224.101, \"end\": 224.201, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 224.201, \"end\": 224.801, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"倍\", \"start\": 224.801, \"end\": 224.821, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 227.242, \"end\": 248.577, \"text\": \"那類似這樣子我是想要請教部長因為目前經濟部也好他們也在鼓勵這些電鍍業者應該是要往這個章濱這個淪為區有一個電鍍區就是往這邊走希望能夠就是遷到那邊去那我們也看到一個狀況就是說這個工業區這個污水管理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 227.242, \"end\": 227.762, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"似\", \"start\": 227.762, \"end\": 228.243, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 228.243, \"end\": 228.623, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 228.623, \"end\": 229.384, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 229.384, \"end\": 229.544, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 229.544, \"end\": 230.344, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"要\", 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{\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 248.417, \"end\": 248.537, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 248.537, \"end\": 248.557, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 248.557, \"end\": 248.577, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 255.115, \"end\": 281.46, \"text\": \"這個工業區的污水管理我們發現就是說這個環境污染的這個裁罰總額是這個工業區是被裁罰的大戶就像這個經濟部的這個管理的桃園、觀音、大園還有中壢的這個工業區那這個觀音的部分16年這個被罰了160多次那總額是將近這個台幣1億那我想請教就是說各個工業區的這個水\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 255.115, \"end\": 255.595, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 255.595, \"end\": 255.695, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"污\", \"start\": 255.695, \"end\": 255.855, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 255.855, \"end\": 256.015, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 256.015, \"end\": 256.175, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 256.175, \"end\": 256.575, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 256.575, \"end\": 257.295, 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\"end\": 675.69, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 675.69, \"end\": 675.85, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"油\", \"start\": 675.85, \"end\": 676.01, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 676.01, \"end\": 676.11, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 676.11, \"end\": 676.13, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 676.13, \"end\": 676.15, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 676.15, \"end\": 676.17, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 676.17, \"end\": 676.23, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 676.23, \"end\": 676.37, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 676.37, \"end\": 676.79, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 676.79, \"end\": 676.911, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 676.911, \"end\": 676.931, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 676.931, \"end\": 676.951, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,950 --> 00:00:07,354\n謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,再請部長。\n\n2\n00:00:10,781 --> 00:00:35,630\n黃委員好部長好部長就剛剛林委員講的因為我們最近也看到這個不論是彰化或雲林鄉長然後代表會主席都因為這個光電的弊案所以我剛剛非常贊同林委員講的確實一些環評應該是中央這邊要來主導而不是交給地方如果地方的權限太大其實這種\n\n3\n00:00:36,710 --> 00:00:58,361\nbicyclone我是覺得說還是會層出不窮所以剛剛林委員講的我覺得這一點真的我也非常贊同而且我在前陣子又看到一個報導可能就是那個光電這個可能一些外商在做光電他可能還要額外去附一些地方的這個\n\n4\n00:00:59,522 --> 00:01:14,042\n公關費用所以讓他們覺得說要在臺灣投資這個他們玩不下去所以我覺得說部長真的這件事要非常的鄭重來正視這個議題那部長是不是你再回應一下好謝謝委員那剛剛\n\n5\n00:01:15,503 --> 00:01:42,586\n謝謝林委員還有委員的這個指教那我以後會絕對會妥善的來處理那我再次重申就是說旅館業、文教業還有這種所謂的太陽光店未來的處理還是收回中央那未來呢我們希望花一年的時間因為我目前在3、4月的時候環境部已經委託15個地方來幫助這個旅館業的這個環評審核那目前只有兩個案例我希望到明年年底我們配合環評總體檢\n\n6\n00:01:44,207 --> 00:02:10,231\n»:全部再來看過一次當然地方我覺得地方他們已經有一些環評能力是不錯但是的確委員說到的一個問題我也看到了所以我們未來會從體檢之後明年完整希望年底的時候再來看一次要做怎麼樣的分工因為如果沒有地方的這種監督其實都靠中央的人力一方面要這個環評一方面要監督這個人力是沒有辦法做得到那麼精準的我希望中央跟地方要一起合作\n\n7\n00:02:11,732 --> 00:02:33,514\n接下來我想請教部長就是我們在那個環境部12號就是預告修正水污費的這個收費辦法那有新增加安淡然後新洗收費的項目那我想請教就是說其實目前這個安淡是河川中重度污染核斷主要的因素這個污染項目\n\n8\n00:02:34,395 --> 00:02:56,723\n那我想請教的就是其實我們也看到台灣的很多河川都是受到污染的我相信部長你這陣子你也時常跑地方嘛那你看到地方有很多河川你看了你也會覺得說我們到國外去看到河川是很乾淨的可是台灣的河川確實是這個\n\n9\n00:03:00,114 --> 00:03:01,155\nbicyclist\n\n10\n00:03:20,094 --> 00:03:44,821\n那電渡廠他可能直接把水直接灌到地下水區那後來在2013年就有這個檢察官帶隊然後去搜然後確定那也罰也開罰了那罰了1億多那其實我覺得在最近在今年還是有抓到就是有業者他也是非法排放那甚至他的孽是超標超標到這個400多倍\n\n11\n00:03:47,242 --> 00:04:08,577\n那類似這樣子我是想要請教部長因為目前經濟部也好他們也在鼓勵這些電鍍業者應該是要往這個章濱這個淪為區有一個電鍍區就是往這邊走希望能夠就是遷到那邊去那我們也看到一個狀況就是說這個工業區這個污水管理\n\n12\n00:04:15,115 --> 00:04:41,460\n這個工業區的污水管理我們發現就是說這個環境污染的這個裁罰總額是這個工業區是被裁罰的大戶就像這個經濟部的這個管理的桃園、觀音、大園還有中壢的這個工業區那這個觀音的部分16年這個被罰了160多次那總額是將近這個台幣1億那我想請教就是說各個工業區的這個水\n\n13\n00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:43,561\n環境部你應該要怎麼去督導這件事?\n\n14\n00:05:11,852 --> 00:05:37,121\n包委員這個我請我們司長來回答謝謝謝謝委員關心這件事情我想工業區基本上它有一個經濟部有一個延期管理局他負責這個區內工業區設有專用污水下水道系統的一個相關的一個監督管理跟計畫的一個補助有些工業區基本上它的一個區內事業的廢污水特性基本上就相對複雜\n\n15\n00:05:38,041 --> 00:06:00,849\n所以它的污水處理的一個操作的量能基本上有不足的現象所以呢這個沿管局它目前的一個做法就是會針對這一個需要改善的呢它有一些透過ROT的方式再引入外界的一個資源公司協力跟這個技術的能力來改善它的污水處理設備但是我們覺得說除了污水處理設備的一個提升之外\n\n16\n00:06:01,449 --> 00:06:19,974\n更大的問題是區內事業的一個管理也就是說區內事業要符合納管限值做排放然後透過一個專用的污水下水道系統送到污水處理場來處理所以區內事業的一個納管常常是會有超排的現象那超排之後呢造成這個污水處理場的負荷突變\n\n17\n00:06:20,674 --> 00:06:21,054\n您現在已經開始做了嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:50,376 --> 00:06:50,416\n»:是,好。\n\n19\n00:07:19,386 --> 00:07:43,945\n我希望就是說應該是要從我們自己可以管的這個工業區應該是經濟部工業區然後跟你們應該要互相合作因為他放流出去了然後超標罰錢罰錢就沒事了嘛所以我覺得這一件我後面我還會繼續追啦另外我想請教就是說彰化還是有很多都是喝地下水\n\n20\n00:07:44,605 --> 00:08:13,559\nbicy很多都還喝地下水而且我們一直在申請就是說希望這個無自來水地區的民眾能夠這個中央政府政府能夠持續能夠自來水的接管可是很可惜就是說這個速度還是蠻慢的那我想請教就是說我剛剛有講章化這個電鍍電鍍業者就是在這幾年是希望他們能夠簽到這個電鍍專區啦那還是有一些他是沒辦法簽就是說他\n\n21\n00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:15,901\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．\n\n22\n00:08:38,882 --> 00:08:40,203\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部主管預算\n\n23\n00:09:06,025 --> 00:09:07,046\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算\n\n24\n00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,222\n三、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．\n\n25\n00:09:45,128 --> 00:09:46,509\n中華民國11年度中央政府總預算案\n\n26\n00:10:07,389 --> 00:10:08,190\n公務及基金預算\n\n27\n00:10:31,886 --> 00:10:35,588\n華民國11年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告案2案\n\n28\n00:10:58,699 --> 00:11:16,951\n謝謝委員的意見其實我還沒有上任之前有一些環工風險的專家就跟我講過這個問題我也很樂意找時間我再全面的瞭解然後可能要整合很多的部會包括農水署等等還有經濟部等等所以我們會來做這個事情再委員再給我一點點時間謝謝好謝謝那繼續加油謝謝好謝謝黃新光委員的發言下一位我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4950\t7354\t謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,再請部長。\n10781\t35630\t黃委員好部長好部長就剛剛林委員講的因為我們最近也看到這個不論是彰化或雲林鄉長然後代表會主席都因為這個光電的弊案所以我剛剛非常贊同林委員講的確實一些環評應該是中央這邊要來主導而不是交給地方如果地方的權限太大其實這種\n36710\t58361\tbicyclone我是覺得說還是會層出不窮所以剛剛林委員講的我覺得這一點真的我也非常贊同而且我在前陣子又看到一個報導可能就是那個光電這個可能一些外商在做光電他可能還要額外去附一些地方的這個\n59522\t74042\t公關費用所以讓他們覺得說要在臺灣投資這個他們玩不下去所以我覺得說部長真的這件事要非常的鄭重來正視這個議題那部長是不是你再回應一下好謝謝委員那剛剛\n75503\t102586\t謝謝林委員還有委員的這個指教那我以後會絕對會妥善的來處理那我再次重申就是說旅館業、文教業還有這種所謂的太陽光店未來的處理還是收回中央那未來呢我們希望花一年的時間因為我目前在3、4月的時候環境部已經委託15個地方來幫助這個旅館業的這個環評審核那目前只有兩個案例我希望到明年年底我們配合環評總體檢\n104207\t130231\t»: 全部再來看過一次當然地方我覺得地方他們已經有一些環評能力是不錯但是的確委員說到的一個問題我也看到了所以我們未來會從體檢之後明年完整希望年底的時候再來看一次要做怎麼樣的分工因為如果沒有地方的這種監督其實都靠中央的人力一方面要這個環評一方面要監督這個人力是沒有辦法做得到那麼精準的我希望中央跟地方要一起合作\n131732\t153514\t接下來我想請教部長就是我們在那個環境部12號就是預告修正水污費的這個收費辦法那有新增加安淡然後新洗收費的項目那我想請教就是說其實目前這個安淡是河川中重度污染核斷主要的因素這個污染項目\n154395\t176723\t那我想請教的就是其實我們也看到台灣的很多河川都是受到污染的我相信部長你這陣子你也時常跑地方嘛那你看到地方有很多河川你看了你也會覺得說我們到國外去看到河川是很乾淨的可是台灣的河川確實是這個\n180114\t181155\tbicyclist\n200094\t224821\t那電渡廠他可能直接把水直接灌到地下水區那後來在2013年就有這個檢察官帶隊然後去搜然後確定那也罰也開罰了那罰了1億多那其實我覺得在最近在今年還是有抓到就是有業者他也是非法排放那甚至他的孽是超標超標到這個400多倍\n227242\t248577\t那類似這樣子我是想要請教部長因為目前經濟部也好他們也在鼓勵這些電鍍業者應該是要往這個章濱這個淪為區有一個電鍍區就是往這邊走希望能夠就是遷到那邊去那我們也看到一個狀況就是說這個工業區這個污水管理\n255115\t281460\t這個工業區的污水管理我們發現就是說這個環境污染的這個裁罰總額是這個工業區是被裁罰的大戶就像這個經濟部的這個管理的桃園、觀音、大園還有中壢的這個工業區那這個觀音的部分16年這個被罰了160多次那總額是將近這個台幣1億那我想請教就是說各個工業區的這個水\n282700\t283561\t環境部你應該要怎麼去督導這件事?\n311852\t337121\t包委員 這個我請我們司長來回答謝謝謝謝委員關心這件事情我想工業區基本上它有一個經濟部有一個延期管理局他負責這個區內工業區設有專用污水下水道系統的一個相關的一個監督管理跟計畫的一個補助有些工業區基本上它的一個區內事業的廢污水特性基本上就相對複雜\n338041\t360849\t所以它的污水處理的一個操作的量能基本上有不足的現象所以呢這個沿管局它目前的一個做法就是會針對這一個需要改善的呢它有一些透過ROT的方式再引入外界的一個資源公司協力跟這個技術的能力來改善它的污水處理設備但是我們覺得說除了污水處理設備的一個提升之外\n361449\t379974\t更大的問題是區內事業的一個管理也就是說區內事業要符合納管限值做排放然後透過一個專用的污水下水道系統送到污水處理場來處理所以區內事業的一個納管常常是會有超排的現象那超排之後呢造成這個污水處理場的負荷突變\n380674\t381054\t您現在已經開始做了嗎?\n410376\t410416\t»:是,好。\n439386\t463945\t我希望就是說應該是要從我們自己可以管的這個工業區應該是經濟部工業區然後跟你們應該要互相合作因為他放流出去了然後超標罰錢罰錢就沒事了嘛所以我覺得這一件我後面我還會繼續追啦另外我想請教就是說彰化還是有很多都是喝地下水\n464605\t493559\tbicy 很多都還喝地下水而且我們一直在申請就是說希望這個無自來水地區的民眾能夠這個中央政府政府能夠持續能夠自來水的接管可是很可惜就是說這個速度還是蠻慢的那我想請教就是說我剛剛有講章化這個電鍍電鍍業者就是在這幾年是希望他們能夠簽到這個電鍍專區啦那還是有一些他是沒辦法簽就是說他\n494560\t495901\t中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．\n518882\t520203\t中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部主管預算\n546025\t547046\t中華民國113年度中央政府總預算\n566640\t570222\t三、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．\n585128\t586509\t中華民國11年度中央政府總預算案\n607389\t608190\t公務及基金預算\n631886\t635588\t華民國11年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告案2案\n658699\t676951\t謝謝委員的意見其實我還沒有上任之前有一些環工風險的專家就跟我講過這個問題我也很樂意找時間我再全面的瞭解然後可能要整合很多的部會包括農水署等等還有經濟部等等所以我們會來做這個事情再委員再給我一點點時間謝謝好謝謝那繼續加油謝謝好謝謝黃新光委員的發言下一位我們請\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,再請部長。\n黃委員好部長好部長就剛剛林委員講的因為我們最近也看到這個不論是彰化或雲林鄉長然後代表會主席都因為這個光電的弊案所以我剛剛非常贊同林委員講的確實一些環評應該是中央這邊要來主導而不是交給地方如果地方的權限太大其實這種\nbicyclone我是覺得說還是會層出不窮所以剛剛林委員講的我覺得這一點真的我也非常贊同而且我在前陣子又看到一個報導可能就是那個光電這個可能一些外商在做光電他可能還要額外去附一些地方的這個\n公關費用所以讓他們覺得說要在臺灣投資這個他們玩不下去所以我覺得說部長真的這件事要非常的鄭重來正視這個議題那部長是不是你再回應一下好謝謝委員那剛剛\n謝謝林委員還有委員的這個指教那我以後會絕對會妥善的來處理那我再次重申就是說旅館業、文教業還有這種所謂的太陽光店未來的處理還是收回中央那未來呢我們希望花一年的時間因為我目前在3、4月的時候環境部已經委託15個地方來幫助這個旅館業的這個環評審核那目前只有兩個案例我希望到明年年底我們配合環評總體檢\n»: 全部再來看過一次當然地方我覺得地方他們已經有一些環評能力是不錯但是的確委員說到的一個問題我也看到了所以我們未來會從體檢之後明年完整希望年底的時候再來看一次要做怎麼樣的分工因為如果沒有地方的這種監督其實都靠中央的人力一方面要這個環評一方面要監督這個人力是沒有辦法做得到那麼精準的我希望中央跟地方要一起合作\n接下來我想請教部長就是我們在那個環境部12號就是預告修正水污費的這個收費辦法那有新增加安淡然後新洗收費的項目那我想請教就是說其實目前這個安淡是河川中重度污染核斷主要的因素這個污染項目\n那我想請教的就是其實我們也看到台灣的很多河川都是受到污染的我相信部長你這陣子你也時常跑地方嘛那你看到地方有很多河川你看了你也會覺得說我們到國外去看到河川是很乾淨的可是台灣的河川確實是這個\nbicyclist\n那電渡廠他可能直接把水直接灌到地下水區那後來在2013年就有這個檢察官帶隊然後去搜然後確定那也罰也開罰了那罰了1億多那其實我覺得在最近在今年還是有抓到就是有業者他也是非法排放那甚至他的孽是超標超標到這個400多倍\n那類似這樣子我是想要請教部長因為目前經濟部也好他們也在鼓勵這些電鍍業者應該是要往這個章濱這個淪為區有一個電鍍區就是往這邊走希望能夠就是遷到那邊去那我們也看到一個狀況就是說這個工業區這個污水管理\n這個工業區的污水管理我們發現就是說這個環境污染的這個裁罰總額是這個工業區是被裁罰的大戶就像這個經濟部的這個管理的桃園、觀音、大園還有中壢的這個工業區那這個觀音的部分16年這個被罰了160多次那總額是將近這個台幣1億那我想請教就是說各個工業區的這個水\n環境部你應該要怎麼去督導這件事?\n包委員 這個我請我們司長來回答謝謝謝謝委員關心這件事情我想工業區基本上它有一個經濟部有一個延期管理局他負責這個區內工業區設有專用污水下水道系統的一個相關的一個監督管理跟計畫的一個補助有些工業區基本上它的一個區內事業的廢污水特性基本上就相對複雜\n所以它的污水處理的一個操作的量能基本上有不足的現象所以呢這個沿管局它目前的一個做法就是會針對這一個需要改善的呢它有一些透過ROT的方式再引入外界的一個資源公司協力跟這個技術的能力來改善它的污水處理設備但是我們覺得說除了污水處理設備的一個提升之外\n更大的問題是區內事業的一個管理也就是說區內事業要符合納管限值做排放然後透過一個專用的污水下水道系統送到污水處理場來處理所以區內事業的一個納管常常是會有超排的現象那超排之後呢造成這個污水處理場的負荷突變\n您現在已經開始做了嗎?\n»:是,好。\n我希望就是說應該是要從我們自己可以管的這個工業區應該是經濟部工業區然後跟你們應該要互相合作因為他放流出去了然後超標罰錢罰錢就沒事了嘛所以我覺得這一件我後面我還會繼續追啦另外我想請教就是說彰化還是有很多都是喝地下水\nbicy 很多都還喝地下水而且我們一直在申請就是說希望這個無自來水地區的民眾能夠這個中央政府政府能夠持續能夠自來水的接管可是很可惜就是說這個速度還是蠻慢的那我想請教就是說我剛剛有講章化這個電鍍電鍍業者就是在這幾年是希望他們能夠簽到這個電鍍專區啦那還是有一些他是沒辦法簽就是說他\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部主管預算\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算\n三、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．\n中華民國11年度中央政府總預算案\n公務及基金預算\n華民國11年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告案2案\n謝謝委員的意見其實我還沒有上任之前有一些環工風險的專家就跟我講過這個問題我也很樂意找時間我再全面的瞭解然後可能要整合很多的部會包括農水署等等還有經濟部等等所以我們會來做這個事情再委員再給我一點點時間謝謝好謝謝那繼續加油謝謝好謝謝黃新光委員的發言下一位我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.950 --> 00:07.354\n謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,再請部長。\n\n00:10.781 --> 00:35.630\n黃委員好部長好部長就剛剛林委員講的因為我們最近也看到這個不論是彰化或雲林鄉長然後代表會主席都因為這個光電的弊案所以我剛剛非常贊同林委員講的確實一些環評應該是中央這邊要來主導而不是交給地方如果地方的權限太大其實這種\n\n00:36.710 --> 00:58.361\nbicyclone我是覺得說還是會層出不窮所以剛剛林委員講的我覺得這一點真的我也非常贊同而且我在前陣子又看到一個報導可能就是那個光電這個可能一些外商在做光電他可能還要額外去附一些地方的這個\n\n00:59.522 --> 01:14.042\n公關費用所以讓他們覺得說要在臺灣投資這個他們玩不下去所以我覺得說部長真的這件事要非常的鄭重來正視這個議題那部長是不是你再回應一下好謝謝委員那剛剛\n\n01:15.503 --> 01:42.586\n謝謝林委員還有委員的這個指教那我以後會絕對會妥善的來處理那我再次重申就是說旅館業、文教業還有這種所謂的太陽光店未來的處理還是收回中央那未來呢我們希望花一年的時間因為我目前在3、4月的時候環境部已經委託15個地方來幫助這個旅館業的這個環評審核那目前只有兩個案例我希望到明年年底我們配合環評總體檢\n\n01:44.207 --> 02:10.231\n»:全部再來看過一次當然地方我覺得地方他們已經有一些環評能力是不錯但是的確委員說到的一個問題我也看到了所以我們未來會從體檢之後明年完整希望年底的時候再來看一次要做怎麼樣的分工因為如果沒有地方的這種監督其實都靠中央的人力一方面要這個環評一方面要監督這個人力是沒有辦法做得到那麼精準的我希望中央跟地方要一起合作\n\n02:11.732 --> 02:33.514\n接下來我想請教部長就是我們在那個環境部12號就是預告修正水污費的這個收費辦法那有新增加安淡然後新洗收費的項目那我想請教就是說其實目前這個安淡是河川中重度污染核斷主要的因素這個污染項目\n\n02:34.395 --> 02:56.723\n那我想請教的就是其實我們也看到台灣的很多河川都是受到污染的我相信部長你這陣子你也時常跑地方嘛那你看到地方有很多河川你看了你也會覺得說我們到國外去看到河川是很乾淨的可是台灣的河川確實是這個\n\n03:00.114 --> 03:01.155\nbicyclist\n\n03:20.094 --> 03:44.821\n那電渡廠他可能直接把水直接灌到地下水區那後來在2013年就有這個檢察官帶隊然後去搜然後確定那也罰也開罰了那罰了1億多那其實我覺得在最近在今年還是有抓到就是有業者他也是非法排放那甚至他的孽是超標超標到這個400多倍\n\n03:47.242 --> 04:08.577\n那類似這樣子我是想要請教部長因為目前經濟部也好他們也在鼓勵這些電鍍業者應該是要往這個章濱這個淪為區有一個電鍍區就是往這邊走希望能夠就是遷到那邊去那我們也看到一個狀況就是說這個工業區這個污水管理\n\n04:15.115 --> 04:41.460\n這個工業區的污水管理我們發現就是說這個環境污染的這個裁罰總額是這個工業區是被裁罰的大戶就像這個經濟部的這個管理的桃園、觀音、大園還有中壢的這個工業區那這個觀音的部分16年這個被罰了160多次那總額是將近這個台幣1億那我想請教就是說各個工業區的這個水\n\n04:42.700 --> 04:43.561\n環境部你應該要怎麼去督導這件事?\n\n05:11.852 --> 05:37.121\n包委員這個我請我們司長來回答謝謝謝謝委員關心這件事情我想工業區基本上它有一個經濟部有一個延期管理局他負責這個區內工業區設有專用污水下水道系統的一個相關的一個監督管理跟計畫的一個補助有些工業區基本上它的一個區內事業的廢污水特性基本上就相對複雜\n\n05:38.041 --> 06:00.849\n所以它的污水處理的一個操作的量能基本上有不足的現象所以呢這個沿管局它目前的一個做法就是會針對這一個需要改善的呢它有一些透過ROT的方式再引入外界的一個資源公司協力跟這個技術的能力來改善它的污水處理設備但是我們覺得說除了污水處理設備的一個提升之外\n\n06:01.449 --> 06:19.974\n更大的問題是區內事業的一個管理也就是說區內事業要符合納管限值做排放然後透過一個專用的污水下水道系統送到污水處理場來處理所以區內事業的一個納管常常是會有超排的現象那超排之後呢造成這個污水處理場的負荷突變\n\n06:20.674 --> 06:21.054\n您現在已經開始做了嗎?\n\n06:50.376 --> 06:50.416\n»:是,好。\n\n07:19.386 --> 07:43.945\n我希望就是說應該是要從我們自己可以管的這個工業區應該是經濟部工業區然後跟你們應該要互相合作因為他放流出去了然後超標罰錢罰錢就沒事了嘛所以我覺得這一件我後面我還會繼續追啦另外我想請教就是說彰化還是有很多都是喝地下水\n\n07:44.605 --> 08:13.559\nbicy很多都還喝地下水而且我們一直在申請就是說希望這個無自來水地區的民眾能夠這個中央政府政府能夠持續能夠自來水的接管可是很可惜就是說這個速度還是蠻慢的那我想請教就是說我剛剛有講章化這個電鍍電鍍業者就是在這幾年是希望他們能夠簽到這個電鍍專區啦那還是有一些他是沒辦法簽就是說他\n\n08:14.560 --> 08:15.901\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．\n\n08:38.882 --> 08:40.203\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部主管預算\n\n09:06.025 --> 09:07.046\n中華民國113年度中央政府總預算\n\n09:26.640 --> 09:30.222\n三、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．\n\n09:45.128 --> 09:46.509\n中華民國11年度中央政府總預算案\n\n10:07.389 --> 10:08.190\n公務及基金預算\n\n10:31.886 --> 10:35.588\n華民國11年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告案2案\n\n10:58.699 --> 11:16.951\n謝謝委員的意見其實我還沒有上任之前有一些環工風險的專家就跟我講過這個問題我也很樂意找時間我再全面的瞭解然後可能要整合很多的部會包括農水署等等還有經濟部等等所以我們會來做這個事情再委員再給我一點點時間謝謝好謝謝那繼續加油謝謝好謝謝黃新光委員的發言下一位我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.95,"end":7.354,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,再請部長。"},{"start":10.781,"end":35.63,"text":"黃委員好部長好部長就剛剛林委員講的因為我們最近也看到這個不論是彰化或雲林鄉長然後代表會主席都因為這個光電的弊案所以我剛剛非常贊同林委員講的確實一些環評應該是中央這邊要來主導而不是交給地方如果地方的權限太大其實這種"},{"start":36.71,"end":58.361,"text":" bicyclone我是覺得說還是會層出不窮所以剛剛林委員講的我覺得這一點真的我也非常贊同而且我在前陣子又看到一個報導可能就是那個光電這個可能一些外商在做光電他可能還要額外去附一些地方的這個"},{"start":59.522,"end":74.042,"text":"公關費用所以讓他們覺得說要在臺灣投資這個他們玩不下去所以我覺得說部長真的這件事要非常的鄭重來正視這個議題那部長是不是你再回應一下好謝謝委員那剛剛"},{"start":75.503,"end":102.586,"text":"謝謝林委員還有委員的這個指教那我以後會絕對會妥善的來處理那我再次重申就是說旅館業、文教業還有這種所謂的太陽光店未來的處理還是收回中央那未來呢我們希望花一年的時間因為我目前在3、4月的時候環境部已經委託15個地方來幫助這個旅館業的這個環評審核那目前只有兩個案例我希望到明年年底我們配合環評總體檢"},{"start":104.207,"end":130.231,"text":" »: 全部再來看過一次當然地方我覺得地方他們已經有一些環評能力是不錯但是的確委員說到的一個問題我也看到了所以我們未來會從體檢之後明年完整希望年底的時候再來看一次要做怎麼樣的分工因為如果沒有地方的這種監督其實都靠中央的人力一方面要這個環評一方面要監督這個人力是沒有辦法做得到那麼精準的我希望中央跟地方要一起合作"},{"start":131.732,"end":153.514,"text":"接下來我想請教部長就是我們在那個環境部12號就是預告修正水污費的這個收費辦法那有新增加安淡然後新洗收費的項目那我想請教就是說其實目前這個安淡是河川中重度污染核斷主要的因素這個污染項目"},{"start":154.395,"end":176.723,"text":"那我想請教的就是其實我們也看到台灣的很多河川都是受到污染的我相信部長你這陣子你也時常跑地方嘛那你看到地方有很多河川你看了你也會覺得說我們到國外去看到河川是很乾淨的可是台灣的河川確實是這個"},{"start":180.114,"end":181.155,"text":" bicyclist"},{"start":200.094,"end":224.821,"text":"那電渡廠他可能直接把水直接灌到地下水區那後來在2013年就有這個檢察官帶隊然後去搜然後確定那也罰也開罰了那罰了1億多那其實我覺得在最近在今年還是有抓到就是有業者他也是非法排放那甚至他的孽是超標超標到這個400多倍"},{"start":227.242,"end":248.577,"text":"那類似這樣子我是想要請教部長因為目前經濟部也好他們也在鼓勵這些電鍍業者應該是要往這個章濱這個淪為區有一個電鍍區就是往這邊走希望能夠就是遷到那邊去那我們也看到一個狀況就是說這個工業區這個污水管理"},{"start":255.115,"end":281.46,"text":"這個工業區的污水管理我們發現就是說這個環境污染的這個裁罰總額是這個工業區是被裁罰的大戶就像這個經濟部的這個管理的桃園、觀音、大園還有中壢的這個工業區那這個觀音的部分16年這個被罰了160多次那總額是將近這個台幣1億那我想請教就是說各個工業區的這個水"},{"start":282.7,"end":283.561,"text":"環境部你應該要怎麼去督導這件事?"},{"start":311.852,"end":337.121,"text":"包委員 這個我請我們司長來回答謝謝謝謝委員關心這件事情我想工業區基本上它有一個經濟部有一個延期管理局他負責這個區內工業區設有專用污水下水道系統的一個相關的一個監督管理跟計畫的一個補助有些工業區基本上它的一個區內事業的廢污水特性基本上就相對複雜"},{"start":338.041,"end":360.849,"text":"所以它的污水處理的一個操作的量能基本上有不足的現象所以呢這個沿管局它目前的一個做法就是會針對這一個需要改善的呢它有一些透過ROT的方式再引入外界的一個資源公司協力跟這個技術的能力來改善它的污水處理設備但是我們覺得說除了污水處理設備的一個提升之外"},{"start":361.449,"end":379.974,"text":"更大的問題是區內事業的一個管理也就是說區內事業要符合納管限值做排放然後透過一個專用的污水下水道系統送到污水處理場來處理所以區內事業的一個納管常常是會有超排的現象那超排之後呢造成這個污水處理場的負荷突變"},{"start":380.674,"end":381.054,"text":"您現在已經開始做了嗎?"},{"start":410.376,"end":410.416,"text":" »:是,好。"},{"start":439.386,"end":463.945,"text":"我希望就是說應該是要從我們自己可以管的這個工業區應該是經濟部工業區然後跟你們應該要互相合作因為他放流出去了然後超標罰錢罰錢就沒事了嘛所以我覺得這一件我後面我還會繼續追啦另外我想請教就是說彰化還是有很多都是喝地下水"},{"start":464.605,"end":493.559,"text":" bicy 很多都還喝地下水而且我們一直在申請就是說希望這個無自來水地區的民眾能夠這個中央政府政府能夠持續能夠自來水的接管可是很可惜就是說這個速度還是蠻慢的那我想請教就是說我剛剛有講章化這個電鍍電鍍業者就是在這幾年是希望他們能夠簽到這個電鍍專區啦那還是有一些他是沒辦法簽就是說他"},{"start":494.56,"end":495.901,"text":"中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．"},{"start":518.882,"end":520.203,"text":"中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部主管預算"},{"start":546.025,"end":547.046,"text":"中華民國113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":566.64,"end":570.222,"text":"三、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告業務．"},{"start":585.128,"end":586.509,"text":"中華民國11年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":607.389,"end":608.19,"text":"公務及基金預算"},{"start":631.886,"end":635.588,"text":"華民國11年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部部長列席報告案2案"},{"start":658.699,"end":676.951,"text":"謝謝委員的意見其實我還沒有上任之前有一些環工風險的專家就跟我講過這個問題我也很樂意找時間我再全面的瞭解然後可能要整合很多的部會包括農水署等等還有經濟部等等所以我們會來做這個事情再委員再給我一點點時間謝謝好謝謝那繼續加油謝謝好謝謝黃新光委員的發言下一位我們請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1648,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（11時44分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：好，請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。部長，就剛剛林委員講的，我們最近也看到，不論是彰化或雲林，鄉長和代表會主席都涉入光電弊案，所以我非常贊同剛剛林委員講的，確實一些環評應該是中央要來主導，而不是交給地方，如果地方的權限太大，這種弊端還是會層出不窮，所以剛剛林委員講的這一點，我真的也非常贊同，而且我在前一陣子又看到一個報導，有一些在做光電的外商，可能還要額外去付一些地方的公關費用，讓他們覺得要在臺灣投資這個，他們玩不下去。所以我覺得，部長，真的要非常鄭重地來正視這個議題，那部長你是不是再回應一下？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。謝謝林委員和黃委員的指教，我以後絕對會妥善地來處理。我再次重申，旅館業、文教業和太陽光電未來的處理，還是收回中央，未來我們希望花一年的時間，因為在3月、4月的時候，環境部已經委託15個地方來幫助旅館業做環評整合，目前只有兩個案例，我希望到明年年底，我們配合環評總體檢，全部再來看過一次。當然地方已經有一些環評能力是不錯，但是委員說到的一個問題我也看到了，所以我們未來總體檢之後，希望年底再來看一次要做什麼樣的分工，因為如果沒有地方的監督，都靠中央的人力，一方面要做環評，一方面要監督，以我們的人力，是沒有辦法做得到那麼精準的，我希望中央跟地方要一起合作。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。好。那接下來我想請教部長，環境部在本月12日預告修正水污費的收費辦法，有新增加氨氮、鋅、錫等收費的項目，目前氨氮是河川中重度污染河段主要的污染項目，那我想請教的是，其實我們也看到臺灣很多河川都是受到污染的，部長這一陣子也時常跑地方，你看到地方有很多河川，我們到國外去看到河川是很乾淨的，可是臺灣的河川確實是很髒，河水的顏色跟正常的顏色真的差很多。我們看工業區，以彰化為例，彰化以前有很多電鍍廠，電鍍廠可能直接把廢水灌到地下水去，在2013年就有檢察官帶隊去搜查，罪證確定，也開罰了，罰了一億多，在今年還是有抓到業者非法排放，甚至查到鎳含量超標，超標四百多倍。目前經濟部也在鼓勵這些電鍍業者遷往彰濱工業區，就是崙尾區有一個電鍍區，希望能夠遷到那邊去。我們也看到一個狀況，就是工業區的污水管理，在環境污染的裁罰總額中，工業區是被裁罰的大戶，就像經濟部管理的桃園的觀音、大園、中壢的工業區，觀音工業區在16年被罰了一百六十多次，總額將近臺幣一億。各個工業區的污水處理，很多工業區都是委外處理，其實工業區管理中心應該也要負起監督的責任，屢屢發生這樣子的情形，針對這一部分，經濟部的工業區應該要自己負起責任，那環境部應該要怎麼去督導這件事？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個我請我們司長來回答。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝。"],["王司長嶽斌：謝謝委員關心這個事情，工業區基本上有一個經濟部園區管理局，負責工業區所設專用污水下水道系統的監督管理跟計畫的補助，有一些工業區區內事業的廢污水特性相對複雜，污水處理的操作量能基本上有不足的現象，所以園管局目前的做法就是針對需要改善的部分，透過ROT的方式，引入外界的資源，公私協力，增進技術的能力，來改善污水處理設備。但是我們覺得，除了污水處理設備的提升之外，更大的問題是區內事業的管理，也就是說，區內事業要符合納管現值來排放，然後透過一個專用的污水下水道系統，送到污水處理場來處理，所以區內事業的納管，常常會有超排的現象，超排之後，造成污水處理廠的負荷，變化變異太大，然後這個污水處理的操作常常會有當掉的問題，所以我們有提出建議，我們也開過一個協調會，開過一個研商會，討論怎麼樣來整合現有的技術，特別是感測的技術，怎麼樣在源頭來做納管的監控，透過污水下水道系統的收集，然後來做一些相關的溯源追蹤，讓區內事業符合納管現值。"],["黃委員秀芳：那你們現在已經開始做了嗎？"],["王司長嶽斌：這個部分我們已經開始在做一個類似AIoT的試辦，我們也了解到園管局在土城工業區有類似的試辦，我們正在追蹤試辦的情形跟效果，至於怎麼樣複製這樣子的科技執法，結合我們的相關稽查管制，來輔導協助我們區內事業管理機構的管理。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。應該是要從我們自己可以管的工業區，應該是經濟部工業區，然後跟你們應該要互相合作，因為污水放流出去了，然後污染物超標罰錢，罰錢就沒事了嗎？這一件事我後面還會繼續追。","另外，我想請教，彰化還是有很多地方都是喝地下水，彰化很多地方都還是喝地下水，而且我們一直在申請，希望中央政府能夠持續協助無自來水地區的民眾，做自來水的接管，可是很可惜，速度還是滿慢的，我剛剛有講到彰化電鍍業者，在這幾年，我們希望他們能夠遷到電鍍專區，還是有一些沒辦法遷，雖然有合法申請，但還是沒辦法遷，還是有偷排的狀況，所以我想請教，這樣子偷排的狀況造成我們彰化的農地污染，我記得我在前幾年針對農地污染的部分一直在追蹤，我們政府環境部這邊也編了一大筆錢來整治污染的農地，在這幾年也幾乎全部都已經解禁了，就是回歸農地，但如果源頭沒有控管的話，農地還是會繼續受到污染，你知道嗎？就像彰化的東西二圳，兩邊有很多農地工廠，如果源頭我們沒有去管控的話，這些受污染的農地還是會持續受到污染，我們看到彰化縣政府一下子解禁了，然後農地一下子又受到污染了，解禁之後這些農地所種出來的農產品，其實大家都會擔心，所以我在這邊也是要請部長針對這一部分，管控源頭也是要跨部會來做，不是只有一個環境部可以做到的，這個一定要跨部會來做。而且我們看到彰化幾乎一半以上目前都還是使用地下水，如果地下水一直受到污染的話，其實對國民的健康會有很大的影響，你看，這個是家裡面使用水的過濾器，可能幾個禮拜就要換濾心，然後你看這種過濾出來的水，其實大家都很擔心。所以我在這邊還是要提醒，部長，環境部要做的事情真的是非常多，不論是空氣污染、垃圾的問題、水的問題，那這個水的問題我覺得確實要做跨部會的溝通，不論是經濟部、內政部，我覺得這個一定要跨部會的溝通，而且彰化地下水這個問題真的大家都會擔心，兩、三個禮拜濾心就要換一次，民眾長期使用這樣的水，身體健康確實會受到很大的影響。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員的意見。其實我還沒有上任之前，有一些環工風險的專家就跟我講過這個問題，那我也很樂意找時間再全面瞭解，然後這個可能要整合很多部會，包含農水署、經濟部等等，所以我們會來做這個事情，委員再給我一點點時間，謝謝。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝，繼續加油，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃秀芳委員的發言。","下一位我們請洪申翰委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":348,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","盧縣一","蘇清泉","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","洪申翰","黃建賓","涂權吉","林俊憲","陳瑩","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","葉元之","劉建國","楊曜","張雅琳"],"page_start":85,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"11310001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結報告案2案；二、邀\n請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；三、審查中華民國 114年度中央政府總預算案關於\n環境部主管預算（公務及基金預算）（僅詢答）；四、審查環境部函送財團法人環境資源研究發\n展基金會等4家財團法人114年度預算書案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310001_00002"}}}