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140.802, \"end\": 157.749, \"text\": \"其實我們看到這東西其實我跟部長說其實你應該知道很多這段時間關心這個國際的組織關心氣候變遷的國際的組織包括碳權的相關的組織都有收到這封信那我們其實看了以後其實很多國際的氣候組織都來紛紛問我們\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 140.802, \"end\": 140.942, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 140.942, \"end\": 141.062, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 141.062, \"end\": 141.162, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 141.162, \"end\": 141.462, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 141.462, \"end\": 141.662, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 141.662, \"end\": 141.782, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 141.782, \"end\": 141.962, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 141.962, \"end\": 142.203, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 142.203, \"end\": 142.583, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 142.583, \"end\": 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\"報告委員我們請氣候署署長跟委員報告因為這一個案件他是跟國際民間單位就是VERA來申請註冊所以他相關的提到的這個檢舉性的內容確實我們的了解是VERA他們自己本身也有請這個案件的申請單位要去釐清\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 254.922, \"end\": 255.003, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 255.003, \"end\": 255.203, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 255.203, \"end\": 255.703, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 255.703, \"end\": 255.823, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 255.823, \"end\": 255.963, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 255.963, \"end\": 257.365, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 257.365, \"end\": 257.505, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 257.505, \"end\": 257.845, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 257.845, \"end\": 258.005, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 258.005, \"end\": 258.466, 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{\"word\": \"畢\"}, {\"word\": \"竟\", \"start\": 289.851, \"end\": 289.872, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 289.872, \"end\": 289.892, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 289.892, \"end\": 289.932, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 289.932, \"end\": 289.952, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 289.952, \"end\": 289.972, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 289.972, \"end\": 289.992, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 289.992, \"end\": 290.012, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 290.012, \"end\": 290.132, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 290.132, \"end\": 290.152, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 290.152, \"end\": 290.372, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 290.372, \"end\": 290.512, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 290.512, \"end\": 290.532, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, 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\"end\": 525.797, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 525.797, \"end\": 525.817, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"b\", \"start\": 526.897, \"end\": 526.937, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"i\", \"start\": 526.937, \"end\": 527.037, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"c\", \"start\": 527.037, \"end\": 527.057, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"y\", \"start\": 527.057, \"end\": 527.137, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"c\", \"start\": 527.137, \"end\": 527.157, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"l\", \"start\": 527.157, \"end\": 527.177, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"a\", \"start\": 527.177, \"end\": 527.238, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"p\", \"start\": 527.238, \"end\": 527.258, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"紅\"}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 539.671, \"end\": 539.771, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"漢\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 539.771, \"end\": 539.811, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 539.811, \"end\": 539.831, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 539.831, \"end\": 539.971, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 539.971, \"end\": 540.072, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"斌\", \"start\": 540.072, \"end\": 540.092, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,828 --> 00:00:28,654\n請彭部長。好,有請彭部長。彭部長早,因為我時間有限。這幾天其實我們大家都有看到環境部針對其實在今年的在亞塞拜蘭的一些進行的狀況有一些我們的記者會或者是一些發生的這個狀況\n\n2\n00:00:30,475 --> 00:00:59,049\n那部長但是我也看到你在COP第一天的記者會上面其實有提到其實有許多參與的專家朋友們其實都有收到一封來自ULFCCC的這個主辦方的信件那這個信件上面表示參與此會議的目的要很清楚是為了減碳而不是為了票率或者是會議後做某些商業利益的宣稱部長你覺得這個ULFCCC主辦方為什麼要做這樣子的提醒\n\n3\n00:01:00,004 --> 00:01:23,249\n報告委員因為其實的確有一些單位或團體他藉由這個參加會議然後他說是一個代表團的身份或是花錢購買了一些記者會或是桌邊會議然後就宣稱他是聯合國的相關的然後這個呢透過新聞的傳送就變成他是這個領域或是他是最棒的那的確會造成整個社會的困擾\n\n4\n00:01:23,939 --> 00:01:50,982\n部長因為我們現在很關心一個事情第一個是其實我想這兩個月其實很多單位都有收到一封檢舉信那這封檢舉信其實就是在這個VERA就是國際探權的這個核發跟認證機構上面的這個VCS的平台上面這封檢舉信那這封檢舉信裡面當然裡面的內容提到了這個有來自\n\n5\n00:01:52,283 --> 00:02:19,770\n臺灣的機構在參與COP28的這個會議的時候宣稱了自己這個通過了這個VERA相關的探權上面的批准那這個檢舉信的內容是指說這樣子的宣稱恐怕跟實質的狀況是不吻合的是不符合的是有落差的部長您有沒有收到這封檢舉信?幫忙委員有的這個我們氣候署署長正在處理這個事情\n\n6\n00:02:20,802 --> 00:02:37,749\n其實我們看到這東西其實我跟部長說其實你應該知道很多這段時間關心這個國際的組織關心氣候變遷的國際的組織包括碳權的相關的組織都有收到這封信那我們其實看了以後其實很多國際的氣候組織都來紛紛問我們\n\n7\n00:02:40,510 --> 00:02:58,303\n這一封檢舉信上面的內容是否屬實?到底他說的是對的還不對?他的指控到底是對的還不對?因為裡面內容還包括我們來自臺灣的機構是不是有違反其他國家在探權認定上面相關的法規或方法學上面的規範。\n\n8\n00:03:00,205 --> 00:03:19,119\n那不然我對於這個信上面的內容是不是真的當然我沒有進行調查我無法斷定可是我認為環境部應該要積極的查明這件事情這件事情為什麼重要我們不能讓其他的國家不管是官方單位、民間單位、專業單位\n\n9\n00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:44,492\n對跟臺灣有關的這個探權相關的問題產生信任上面的質疑這個我想部長應該很清楚其實一個合法的探權的申請尤其經過國際組織它是一個相當繁瑣的申請為什麼要走過這麼多相關的步驟的原因就是要去確認這個credit的這個字有些人發現信用某部分也是大家能不能對它產生信任\n\n10\n00:03:45,433 --> 00:04:13,710\n有這個信任你才有辦法進行所謂的經濟市場上面的流通或者是交易等等的這個事情重點是在這個他要有一定可信的正當性包括合法性的部分這很重要所以部長我們能不能我們能夠在多短時間裡面把剛剛的這個訊息給查明到底指控是否屬實如果有誤會那也澄清有誤會但如果說的是真的那我們環境部的態度是什麼\n\n11\n00:04:14,922 --> 00:04:32,279\n報告委員我們請氣候署署長跟委員報告因為這一個案件他是跟國際民間單位就是VERA來申請註冊所以他相關的提到的這個檢舉性的內容確實我們的了解是VERA他們自己本身也有請這個案件的申請單位要去釐清\n\n12\n00:04:33,199 --> 00:04:46,228\n當然他會涉及到我們國內的就是包括會金管單位因為他可能也有事上是上規的公司的這個相關的事情所以我們目前已經確認就是金管會已經有掌握這個案子的這個進展\n\n13\n00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:50,873\n那當然剛剛委員提醒是說他在這個某個國家做的這個專案是不是有符合人家的這些相關的法規這個部分我們也可以再找這個我們國內的相關但畢竟他是我們不是沒有辦法去對他的這個申請去做做釐清啦做做確認\n\n14\n00:05:07,771 --> 00:05:29,862\n»:但我們可以來再進一步的去掌握。»:我覺得當然它這個其實是一個像VERA就是國際上面大概最重要的幾個國際探險人機構的檢舉。但是我自己認為我們自己的環境部對於像這樣子的事情到底我們的具體掌握,因為看到這個這次檢舉性的時間出來的時間其實是9月。其實距今已經兩個月了。\n\n15\n00:05:31,463 --> 00:05:54,035\n到底我們掌握﹖我覺得剛剛聽起來這樣的話其實掌握的內容是不太足夠的到底有沒有違反其他國家相關的法律我為什麼當然這件事情本身的釐清他會去做某些部分他該做的事情可是我們的環境部我認為要扮演的角色是要讓我們自己的企業很清楚規矩是什麼\n\n16\n00:05:56,173 --> 00:06:10,471\n規範是什麼不能夠違反的是什麼因為當只要今天有一家企業在一個國際的平台上面有違反的時候很可能會讓其他的國際組織對同樣都是來自於台灣的計畫來自於台灣的project\n\n17\n00:06:10,971 --> 00:06:12,072\nbicynnello,\n\n18\n00:06:31,404 --> 00:06:55,865\n當然現在大家都在談減碳很多企業、很多民眾、很多社會都在談減碳我覺得這是好事可是我們也這裡看到其實有很多利用資訊不對稱的這個狀況其實會讓很多人受騙之前我其實已經開記者會其實提過了包括讓不了解探權或者是近鄰的民眾可能付了高昂的補習的費用或者是拿了其實明明不被官方認證的這樣子的一個證書\n\n19\n00:06:58,127 --> 00:07:26,521\n這都是在利用資訊不對等的狀況甚至有些我們看到它還造成在股市股價上面的波動那這對一些資訊不對稱的投資人來說也是不公平的事情我認為環境部應該要很清楚告訴大家我要再講一次現在哪裡要符合什麼規矩要符合什麼規範不然這樣資訊不對等的狀況如果繼續延燒的話或更廣泛的出現這狀況的話很有可能會引起社會對於以後都覺得在講減碳的\n\n20\n00:07:28,092 --> 00:07:53,282\n是不是都是投機行為?我們當然不希望大家現在非常非常期待的氣候行動都被認知為可能都是投機行為。我覺得這對於未來環境部在檢探淨零的工作上也會出現很大的阻礙。所以部長我覺得有幾個部分我們怎麼避免票率包括應該依據國際市場的高標準來進行審核跟運作資訊應該透明不可以過度的做不實的宣傳要符合申請國的規範要求\n\n21\n00:07:54,562 --> 00:08:19,951\n不可以濫用頭銜來誤導民眾這現在很多人在幹這事情喔媒體如果誤導不實的話媒體如果也不確定的話應該請教環境部給予明確的資訊至少給予清楚的透明化的資訊我覺得這環境部可以做的事情部長我們應該更積極這應該沒有問題吧好包委員您說的這個部分我們有在做但是或許我們做的還不夠我會持續的加強而且要更加大力道的對外宣示\n\n22\n00:08:20,131 --> 00:08:45,817\nbicy,我看到你最近跟外交部有合作關於一些氣候外交的部分也談到一些可能探權的合作我們要談到跨國探權前如果沒有辦法把這個規範清清楚楚的讓外界知道的話其實也會有人疑慮太快的進到所謂的國際探權會不會有更多這樣的投機行為或者是利用更大的跨國之間的資訊不對稱不對稱在做炒作的部分如果我們有更在這方面有更大的雄心我覺得\n\n23\n00:08:46,897 --> 00:08:47,258\nbicyclap\n\n24\n00:08:59,671 --> 00:09:00,092\n謝謝紅身漢委員接下來請黃建斌\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7828\t28654\t請彭部長。好,有請彭部長。彭部長早,因為我時間有限。這幾天其實我們大家都有看到環境部針對其實在今年的在亞塞拜蘭的一些進行的狀況有一些我們的記者會或者是一些發生的這個狀況\n30475\t59049\t那部長但是我也看到你在COP第一天的記者會上面其實有提到其實有許多參與的專家朋友們其實都有收到一封來自ULFCCC的這個主辦方的信件那這個信件上面表示參與此會議的目的要很清楚是為了減碳而不是為了票率或者是會議後做某些商業利益的宣稱部長你覺得這個ULFCCC主辦方為什麼要做這樣子的提醒\n60004\t83249\t報告委員因為其實的確有一些單位或團體他藉由這個參加會議然後他說是一個代表團的身份或是花錢購買了一些記者會或是桌邊會議然後就宣稱他是聯合國的相關的然後這個呢透過新聞的傳送就變成他是這個領域或是他是最棒的那的確會造成整個社會的困擾\n83939\t110982\t部長因為我們現在很關心一個事情第一個是其實我想這兩個月其實很多單位都有收到一封檢舉信那這封檢舉信其實就是在這個VERA就是國際探權的這個核發跟認證機構上面的這個VCS的平台上面這封檢舉信那這封檢舉信裡面當然裡面的內容提到了這個有來自\n112283\t139770\t臺灣的機構在參與COP28的這個會議的時候宣稱了自己這個通過了這個VERA相關的探權上面的批准那這個檢舉信的內容是指說這樣子的宣稱恐怕跟實質的狀況是不吻合的是不符合的是有落差的部長您有沒有收到這封檢舉信?幫忙委員有的這個我們氣候署署長正在處理這個事情\n140802\t157749\t其實我們看到這東西其實我跟部長說其實你應該知道很多這段時間關心這個國際的組織關心氣候變遷的國際的組織包括碳權的相關的組織都有收到這封信那我們其實看了以後其實很多國際的氣候組織都來紛紛問我們\n160510\t178303\t這一封檢舉信上面的內容是否屬實?到底他說的是對的還不對?他的指控到底是對的還不對?因為裡面內容還包括我們來自臺灣的機構是不是有違反其他國家在探權認定上面相關的法規或方法學上面的規範。\n180205\t199119\t那不然我對於這個信上面的內容是不是真的當然我沒有進行調查我無法斷定可是我認為環境部應該要積極的查明這件事情這件事情為什麼重要我們不能讓其他的國家不管是官方單位、民間單位、專業單位\n201830\t224492\t對跟臺灣有關的這個探權相關的問題產生信任上面的質疑這個我想部長應該很清楚其實一個合法的探權的申請尤其經過國際組織它是一個相當繁瑣的申請為什麼要走過這麼多相關的步驟的原因就是要去確認這個credit的這個字有些人發現信用某部分也是大家能不能對它產生信任\n225433\t253710\t有這個信任你才有辦法進行所謂的經濟市場上面的流通或者是交易等等的這個事情重點是在這個他要有一定可信的正當性包括合法性的部分這很重要所以部長我們能不能我們能夠在多短時間裡面把剛剛的這個訊息給查明到底指控是否屬實如果有誤會那也澄清有誤會但如果說的是真的那我們環境部的態度是什麼\n254922\t272279\t報告委員我們請氣候署署長跟委員報告因為這一個案件他是跟國際民間單位就是VERA來申請註冊所以他相關的提到的這個檢舉性的內容確實我們的了解是VERA他們自己本身也有請這個案件的申請單位要去釐清\n273199\t286228\t當然他會涉及到我們國內的就是包括會金管單位因為他可能也有事上是上規的公司的這個相關的事情所以我們目前已經確認就是金管會已經有掌握這個案子的這個進展\n288570\t290873\t那當然剛剛委員提醒是說他在這個某個國家做的這個專案是不是有符合人家的這些相關的法規這個部分我們也可以再找這個我們國內的相關但畢竟他是我們不是沒有辦法去對他的這個申請去做做釐清啦做做確認\n307771\t329862\t»: 但我們可以來再進一步的去掌握。 »: 我覺得當然它這個其實是一個像VERA就是國際上面大概最重要的幾個國際探險人機構的檢舉。但是我自己認為我們自己的環境部對於像這樣子的事情到底我們的具體掌握,因為看到這個這次檢舉性的時間出來的時間其實是9月。其實距今已經兩個月了。\n331463\t354035\t到底我們掌握﹖我覺得剛剛聽起來這樣的話其實掌握的內容是不太足夠的到底有沒有違反其他國家相關的法律我為什麼當然這件事情本身的釐清他會去做某些部分他該做的事情可是我們的環境部我認為要扮演的角色是要讓我們自己的企業很清楚規矩是什麼\n356173\t370471\t規範是什麼不能夠違反的是什麼因為當只要今天有一家企業在一個國際的平台上面有違反的時候很可能會讓其他的國際組織對同樣都是來自於台灣的計畫來自於台灣的project\n370971\t372072\tbicynnello,\n391404\t415865\t當然現在大家都在談減碳很多企業、很多民眾、很多社會都在談減碳我覺得這是好事可是我們也這裡看到其實有很多利用資訊不對稱的這個狀況其實會讓很多人受騙之前我其實已經開記者會其實提過了包括讓不了解探權或者是近鄰的民眾可能付了高昂的補習的費用或者是拿了其實明明不被官方認證的這樣子的一個證書\n418127\t446521\t這都是在利用資訊不對等的狀況甚至有些我們看到它還造成在股市股價上面的波動那這對一些資訊不對稱的投資人來說也是不公平的事情我認為環境部應該要很清楚告訴大家我要再講一次現在哪裡要符合什麼規矩要符合什麼規範不然這樣資訊不對等的狀況如果繼續延燒的話或更廣泛的出現這狀況的話很有可能會引起社會對於以後都覺得在講減碳的\n448092\t473282\t是不是都是投機行為?我們當然不希望大家現在非常非常期待的氣候行動都被認知為可能都是投機行為。我覺得這對於未來環境部在檢探淨零的工作上也會出現很大的阻礙。所以部長我覺得有幾個部分我們怎麼避免票率包括應該依據國際市場的高標準來進行審核跟運作資訊應該透明不可以過度的做不實的宣傳要符合申請國的規範要求\n474562\t499951\t不可以濫用頭銜來誤導民眾這現在很多人在幹這事情喔媒體如果誤導不實的話媒體如果也不確定的話應該請教環境部給予明確的資訊至少給予清楚的透明化的資訊我覺得這環境部可以做的事情部長我們應該更積極這應該沒有問題吧好包委員您說的這個部分我們有在做但是或許我們做的還不夠我會持續的加強而且要更加大力道的對外宣示\n500131\t525817\tbicy,我看到你最近跟外交部有合作關於一些氣候外交的部分也談到一些可能探權的合作我們要談到跨國探權前如果沒有辦法把這個規範清清楚楚的讓外界知道的話其實也會有人疑慮太快的進到所謂的國際探權會不會有更多這樣的投機行為或者是利用更大的跨國之間的資訊不對稱不對稱在做炒作的部分如果我們有更在這方面有更大的雄心我覺得\n526897\t527258\tbicyclap\n539671\t540092\t謝謝紅身漢委員接下來請黃建斌\n","txt":"請彭部長。好,有請彭部長。彭部長早,因為我時間有限。這幾天其實我們大家都有看到環境部針對其實在今年的在亞塞拜蘭的一些進行的狀況有一些我們的記者會或者是一些發生的這個狀況\n那部長但是我也看到你在COP第一天的記者會上面其實有提到其實有許多參與的專家朋友們其實都有收到一封來自ULFCCC的這個主辦方的信件那這個信件上面表示參與此會議的目的要很清楚是為了減碳而不是為了票率或者是會議後做某些商業利益的宣稱部長你覺得這個ULFCCC主辦方為什麼要做這樣子的提醒\n報告委員因為其實的確有一些單位或團體他藉由這個參加會議然後他說是一個代表團的身份或是花錢購買了一些記者會或是桌邊會議然後就宣稱他是聯合國的相關的然後這個呢透過新聞的傳送就變成他是這個領域或是他是最棒的那的確會造成整個社會的困擾\n部長因為我們現在很關心一個事情第一個是其實我想這兩個月其實很多單位都有收到一封檢舉信那這封檢舉信其實就是在這個VERA就是國際探權的這個核發跟認證機構上面的這個VCS的平台上面這封檢舉信那這封檢舉信裡面當然裡面的內容提到了這個有來自\n臺灣的機構在參與COP28的這個會議的時候宣稱了自己這個通過了這個VERA相關的探權上面的批准那這個檢舉信的內容是指說這樣子的宣稱恐怕跟實質的狀況是不吻合的是不符合的是有落差的部長您有沒有收到這封檢舉信?幫忙委員有的這個我們氣候署署長正在處理這個事情\n其實我們看到這東西其實我跟部長說其實你應該知道很多這段時間關心這個國際的組織關心氣候變遷的國際的組織包括碳權的相關的組織都有收到這封信那我們其實看了以後其實很多國際的氣候組織都來紛紛問我們\n這一封檢舉信上面的內容是否屬實?到底他說的是對的還不對?他的指控到底是對的還不對?因為裡面內容還包括我們來自臺灣的機構是不是有違反其他國家在探權認定上面相關的法規或方法學上面的規範。\n那不然我對於這個信上面的內容是不是真的當然我沒有進行調查我無法斷定可是我認為環境部應該要積極的查明這件事情這件事情為什麼重要我們不能讓其他的國家不管是官方單位、民間單位、專業單位\n對跟臺灣有關的這個探權相關的問題產生信任上面的質疑這個我想部長應該很清楚其實一個合法的探權的申請尤其經過國際組織它是一個相當繁瑣的申請為什麼要走過這麼多相關的步驟的原因就是要去確認這個credit的這個字有些人發現信用某部分也是大家能不能對它產生信任\n有這個信任你才有辦法進行所謂的經濟市場上面的流通或者是交易等等的這個事情重點是在這個他要有一定可信的正當性包括合法性的部分這很重要所以部長我們能不能我們能夠在多短時間裡面把剛剛的這個訊息給查明到底指控是否屬實如果有誤會那也澄清有誤會但如果說的是真的那我們環境部的態度是什麼\n報告委員我們請氣候署署長跟委員報告因為這一個案件他是跟國際民間單位就是VERA來申請註冊所以他相關的提到的這個檢舉性的內容確實我們的了解是VERA他們自己本身也有請這個案件的申請單位要去釐清\n當然他會涉及到我們國內的就是包括會金管單位因為他可能也有事上是上規的公司的這個相關的事情所以我們目前已經確認就是金管會已經有掌握這個案子的這個進展\n那當然剛剛委員提醒是說他在這個某個國家做的這個專案是不是有符合人家的這些相關的法規這個部分我們也可以再找這個我們國內的相關但畢竟他是我們不是沒有辦法去對他的這個申請去做做釐清啦做做確認\n»: 但我們可以來再進一步的去掌握。 »: 我覺得當然它這個其實是一個像VERA就是國際上面大概最重要的幾個國際探險人機構的檢舉。但是我自己認為我們自己的環境部對於像這樣子的事情到底我們的具體掌握,因為看到這個這次檢舉性的時間出來的時間其實是9月。其實距今已經兩個月了。\n到底我們掌握﹖我覺得剛剛聽起來這樣的話其實掌握的內容是不太足夠的到底有沒有違反其他國家相關的法律我為什麼當然這件事情本身的釐清他會去做某些部分他該做的事情可是我們的環境部我認為要扮演的角色是要讓我們自己的企業很清楚規矩是什麼\n規範是什麼不能夠違反的是什麼因為當只要今天有一家企業在一個國際的平台上面有違反的時候很可能會讓其他的國際組織對同樣都是來自於台灣的計畫來自於台灣的project\nbicynnello,\n當然現在大家都在談減碳很多企業、很多民眾、很多社會都在談減碳我覺得這是好事可是我們也這裡看到其實有很多利用資訊不對稱的這個狀況其實會讓很多人受騙之前我其實已經開記者會其實提過了包括讓不了解探權或者是近鄰的民眾可能付了高昂的補習的費用或者是拿了其實明明不被官方認證的這樣子的一個證書\n這都是在利用資訊不對等的狀況甚至有些我們看到它還造成在股市股價上面的波動那這對一些資訊不對稱的投資人來說也是不公平的事情我認為環境部應該要很清楚告訴大家我要再講一次現在哪裡要符合什麼規矩要符合什麼規範不然這樣資訊不對等的狀況如果繼續延燒的話或更廣泛的出現這狀況的話很有可能會引起社會對於以後都覺得在講減碳的\n是不是都是投機行為?我們當然不希望大家現在非常非常期待的氣候行動都被認知為可能都是投機行為。我覺得這對於未來環境部在檢探淨零的工作上也會出現很大的阻礙。所以部長我覺得有幾個部分我們怎麼避免票率包括應該依據國際市場的高標準來進行審核跟運作資訊應該透明不可以過度的做不實的宣傳要符合申請國的規範要求\n不可以濫用頭銜來誤導民眾這現在很多人在幹這事情喔媒體如果誤導不實的話媒體如果也不確定的話應該請教環境部給予明確的資訊至少給予清楚的透明化的資訊我覺得這環境部可以做的事情部長我們應該更積極這應該沒有問題吧好包委員您說的這個部分我們有在做但是或許我們做的還不夠我會持續的加強而且要更加大力道的對外宣示\nbicy,我看到你最近跟外交部有合作關於一些氣候外交的部分也談到一些可能探權的合作我們要談到跨國探權前如果沒有辦法把這個規範清清楚楚的讓外界知道的話其實也會有人疑慮太快的進到所謂的國際探權會不會有更多這樣的投機行為或者是利用更大的跨國之間的資訊不對稱不對稱在做炒作的部分如果我們有更在這方面有更大的雄心我覺得\nbicyclap\n謝謝紅身漢委員接下來請黃建斌\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.828 --> 00:28.654\n請彭部長。好,有請彭部長。彭部長早,因為我時間有限。這幾天其實我們大家都有看到環境部針對其實在今年的在亞塞拜蘭的一些進行的狀況有一些我們的記者會或者是一些發生的這個狀況\n\n00:30.475 --> 00:59.049\n那部長但是我也看到你在COP第一天的記者會上面其實有提到其實有許多參與的專家朋友們其實都有收到一封來自ULFCCC的這個主辦方的信件那這個信件上面表示參與此會議的目的要很清楚是為了減碳而不是為了票率或者是會議後做某些商業利益的宣稱部長你覺得這個ULFCCC主辦方為什麼要做這樣子的提醒\n\n01:00.004 --> 01:23.249\n報告委員因為其實的確有一些單位或團體他藉由這個參加會議然後他說是一個代表團的身份或是花錢購買了一些記者會或是桌邊會議然後就宣稱他是聯合國的相關的然後這個呢透過新聞的傳送就變成他是這個領域或是他是最棒的那的確會造成整個社會的困擾\n\n01:23.939 --> 01:50.982\n部長因為我們現在很關心一個事情第一個是其實我想這兩個月其實很多單位都有收到一封檢舉信那這封檢舉信其實就是在這個VERA就是國際探權的這個核發跟認證機構上面的這個VCS的平台上面這封檢舉信那這封檢舉信裡面當然裡面的內容提到了這個有來自\n\n01:52.283 --> 02:19.770\n臺灣的機構在參與COP28的這個會議的時候宣稱了自己這個通過了這個VERA相關的探權上面的批准那這個檢舉信的內容是指說這樣子的宣稱恐怕跟實質的狀況是不吻合的是不符合的是有落差的部長您有沒有收到這封檢舉信?幫忙委員有的這個我們氣候署署長正在處理這個事情\n\n02:20.802 --> 02:37.749\n其實我們看到這東西其實我跟部長說其實你應該知道很多這段時間關心這個國際的組織關心氣候變遷的國際的組織包括碳權的相關的組織都有收到這封信那我們其實看了以後其實很多國際的氣候組織都來紛紛問我們\n\n02:40.510 --> 02:58.303\n這一封檢舉信上面的內容是否屬實?到底他說的是對的還不對?他的指控到底是對的還不對?因為裡面內容還包括我們來自臺灣的機構是不是有違反其他國家在探權認定上面相關的法規或方法學上面的規範。\n\n03:00.205 --> 03:19.119\n那不然我對於這個信上面的內容是不是真的當然我沒有進行調查我無法斷定可是我認為環境部應該要積極的查明這件事情這件事情為什麼重要我們不能讓其他的國家不管是官方單位、民間單位、專業單位\n\n03:21.830 --> 03:44.492\n對跟臺灣有關的這個探權相關的問題產生信任上面的質疑這個我想部長應該很清楚其實一個合法的探權的申請尤其經過國際組織它是一個相當繁瑣的申請為什麼要走過這麼多相關的步驟的原因就是要去確認這個credit的這個字有些人發現信用某部分也是大家能不能對它產生信任\n\n03:45.433 --> 04:13.710\n有這個信任你才有辦法進行所謂的經濟市場上面的流通或者是交易等等的這個事情重點是在這個他要有一定可信的正當性包括合法性的部分這很重要所以部長我們能不能我們能夠在多短時間裡面把剛剛的這個訊息給查明到底指控是否屬實如果有誤會那也澄清有誤會但如果說的是真的那我們環境部的態度是什麼\n\n04:14.922 --> 04:32.279\n報告委員我們請氣候署署長跟委員報告因為這一個案件他是跟國際民間單位就是VERA來申請註冊所以他相關的提到的這個檢舉性的內容確實我們的了解是VERA他們自己本身也有請這個案件的申請單位要去釐清\n\n04:33.199 --> 04:46.228\n當然他會涉及到我們國內的就是包括會金管單位因為他可能也有事上是上規的公司的這個相關的事情所以我們目前已經確認就是金管會已經有掌握這個案子的這個進展\n\n04:48.570 --> 04:50.873\n那當然剛剛委員提醒是說他在這個某個國家做的這個專案是不是有符合人家的這些相關的法規這個部分我們也可以再找這個我們國內的相關但畢竟他是我們不是沒有辦法去對他的這個申請去做做釐清啦做做確認\n\n05:07.771 --> 05:29.862\n»:但我們可以來再進一步的去掌握。»:我覺得當然它這個其實是一個像VERA就是國際上面大概最重要的幾個國際探險人機構的檢舉。但是我自己認為我們自己的環境部對於像這樣子的事情到底我們的具體掌握,因為看到這個這次檢舉性的時間出來的時間其實是9月。其實距今已經兩個月了。\n\n05:31.463 --> 05:54.035\n到底我們掌握﹖我覺得剛剛聽起來這樣的話其實掌握的內容是不太足夠的到底有沒有違反其他國家相關的法律我為什麼當然這件事情本身的釐清他會去做某些部分他該做的事情可是我們的環境部我認為要扮演的角色是要讓我們自己的企業很清楚規矩是什麼\n\n05:56.173 --> 06:10.471\n規範是什麼不能夠違反的是什麼因為當只要今天有一家企業在一個國際的平台上面有違反的時候很可能會讓其他的國際組織對同樣都是來自於台灣的計畫來自於台灣的project\n\n06:10.971 --> 06:12.072\nbicynnello,\n\n06:31.404 --> 06:55.865\n當然現在大家都在談減碳很多企業、很多民眾、很多社會都在談減碳我覺得這是好事可是我們也這裡看到其實有很多利用資訊不對稱的這個狀況其實會讓很多人受騙之前我其實已經開記者會其實提過了包括讓不了解探權或者是近鄰的民眾可能付了高昂的補習的費用或者是拿了其實明明不被官方認證的這樣子的一個證書\n\n06:58.127 --> 07:26.521\n這都是在利用資訊不對等的狀況甚至有些我們看到它還造成在股市股價上面的波動那這對一些資訊不對稱的投資人來說也是不公平的事情我認為環境部應該要很清楚告訴大家我要再講一次現在哪裡要符合什麼規矩要符合什麼規範不然這樣資訊不對等的狀況如果繼續延燒的話或更廣泛的出現這狀況的話很有可能會引起社會對於以後都覺得在講減碳的\n\n07:28.092 --> 07:53.282\n是不是都是投機行為?我們當然不希望大家現在非常非常期待的氣候行動都被認知為可能都是投機行為。我覺得這對於未來環境部在檢探淨零的工作上也會出現很大的阻礙。所以部長我覺得有幾個部分我們怎麼避免票率包括應該依據國際市場的高標準來進行審核跟運作資訊應該透明不可以過度的做不實的宣傳要符合申請國的規範要求\n\n07:54.562 --> 08:19.951\n不可以濫用頭銜來誤導民眾這現在很多人在幹這事情喔媒體如果誤導不實的話媒體如果也不確定的話應該請教環境部給予明確的資訊至少給予清楚的透明化的資訊我覺得這環境部可以做的事情部長我們應該更積極這應該沒有問題吧好包委員您說的這個部分我們有在做但是或許我們做的還不夠我會持續的加強而且要更加大力道的對外宣示\n\n08:20.131 --> 08:45.817\nbicy,我看到你最近跟外交部有合作關於一些氣候外交的部分也談到一些可能探權的合作我們要談到跨國探權前如果沒有辦法把這個規範清清楚楚的讓外界知道的話其實也會有人疑慮太快的進到所謂的國際探權會不會有更多這樣的投機行為或者是利用更大的跨國之間的資訊不對稱不對稱在做炒作的部分如果我們有更在這方面有更大的雄心我覺得\n\n08:46.897 --> 08:47.258\nbicyclap\n\n08:59.671 --> 09:00.092\n謝謝紅身漢委員接下來請黃建斌\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.828,"end":28.654,"text":"請彭部長。好,有請彭部長。彭部長早,因為我時間有限。這幾天其實我們大家都有看到環境部針對其實在今年的在亞塞拜蘭的一些進行的狀況有一些我們的記者會或者是一些發生的這個狀況"},{"start":30.475,"end":59.049,"text":"那部長但是我也看到你在COP第一天的記者會上面其實有提到其實有許多參與的專家朋友們其實都有收到一封來自ULFCCC的這個主辦方的信件那這個信件上面表示參與此會議的目的要很清楚是為了減碳而不是為了票率或者是會議後做某些商業利益的宣稱部長你覺得這個ULFCCC主辦方為什麼要做這樣子的提醒"},{"start":60.004,"end":83.249,"text":"報告委員因為其實的確有一些單位或團體他藉由這個參加會議然後他說是一個代表團的身份或是花錢購買了一些記者會或是桌邊會議然後就宣稱他是聯合國的相關的然後這個呢透過新聞的傳送就變成他是這個領域或是他是最棒的那的確會造成整個社會的困擾"},{"start":83.939,"end":110.982,"text":"部長因為我們現在很關心一個事情第一個是其實我想這兩個月其實很多單位都有收到一封檢舉信那這封檢舉信其實就是在這個VERA就是國際探權的這個核發跟認證機構上面的這個VCS的平台上面這封檢舉信那這封檢舉信裡面當然裡面的內容提到了這個有來自"},{"start":112.283,"end":139.77,"text":"臺灣的機構在參與COP28的這個會議的時候宣稱了自己這個通過了這個VERA相關的探權上面的批准那這個檢舉信的內容是指說這樣子的宣稱恐怕跟實質的狀況是不吻合的是不符合的是有落差的部長您有沒有收到這封檢舉信?幫忙委員有的這個我們氣候署署長正在處理這個事情"},{"start":140.802,"end":157.749,"text":"其實我們看到這東西其實我跟部長說其實你應該知道很多這段時間關心這個國際的組織關心氣候變遷的國際的組織包括碳權的相關的組織都有收到這封信那我們其實看了以後其實很多國際的氣候組織都來紛紛問我們"},{"start":160.51,"end":178.303,"text":"這一封檢舉信上面的內容是否屬實?到底他說的是對的還不對?他的指控到底是對的還不對?因為裡面內容還包括我們來自臺灣的機構是不是有違反其他國家在探權認定上面相關的法規或方法學上面的規範。"},{"start":180.205,"end":199.119,"text":"那不然我對於這個信上面的內容是不是真的當然我沒有進行調查我無法斷定可是我認為環境部應該要積極的查明這件事情這件事情為什麼重要我們不能讓其他的國家不管是官方單位、民間單位、專業單位"},{"start":201.83,"end":224.492,"text":"對跟臺灣有關的這個探權相關的問題產生信任上面的質疑這個我想部長應該很清楚其實一個合法的探權的申請尤其經過國際組織它是一個相當繁瑣的申請為什麼要走過這麼多相關的步驟的原因就是要去確認這個credit的這個字有些人發現信用某部分也是大家能不能對它產生信任"},{"start":225.433,"end":253.71,"text":"有這個信任你才有辦法進行所謂的經濟市場上面的流通或者是交易等等的這個事情重點是在這個他要有一定可信的正當性包括合法性的部分這很重要所以部長我們能不能我們能夠在多短時間裡面把剛剛的這個訊息給查明到底指控是否屬實如果有誤會那也澄清有誤會但如果說的是真的那我們環境部的態度是什麼"},{"start":254.922,"end":272.279,"text":"報告委員我們請氣候署署長跟委員報告因為這一個案件他是跟國際民間單位就是VERA來申請註冊所以他相關的提到的這個檢舉性的內容確實我們的了解是VERA他們自己本身也有請這個案件的申請單位要去釐清"},{"start":273.199,"end":286.228,"text":"當然他會涉及到我們國內的就是包括會金管單位因為他可能也有事上是上規的公司的這個相關的事情所以我們目前已經確認就是金管會已經有掌握這個案子的這個進展"},{"start":288.57,"end":290.873,"text":"那當然剛剛委員提醒是說他在這個某個國家做的這個專案是不是有符合人家的這些相關的法規這個部分我們也可以再找這個我們國內的相關但畢竟他是我們不是沒有辦法去對他的這個申請去做做釐清啦做做確認"},{"start":307.771,"end":329.862,"text":" »: 但我們可以來再進一步的去掌握。 »: 我覺得當然它這個其實是一個像VERA就是國際上面大概最重要的幾個國際探險人機構的檢舉。但是我自己認為我們自己的環境部對於像這樣子的事情到底我們的具體掌握,因為看到這個這次檢舉性的時間出來的時間其實是9月。其實距今已經兩個月了。"},{"start":331.463,"end":354.035,"text":"到底我們掌握﹖我覺得剛剛聽起來這樣的話其實掌握的內容是不太足夠的到底有沒有違反其他國家相關的法律我為什麼當然這件事情本身的釐清他會去做某些部分他該做的事情可是我們的環境部我認為要扮演的角色是要讓我們自己的企業很清楚規矩是什麼"},{"start":356.173,"end":370.471,"text":"規範是什麼不能夠違反的是什麼因為當只要今天有一家企業在一個國際的平台上面有違反的時候很可能會讓其他的國際組織對同樣都是來自於台灣的計畫來自於台灣的project"},{"start":370.971,"end":372.072,"text":" bicynnello,"},{"start":391.404,"end":415.865,"text":"當然現在大家都在談減碳很多企業、很多民眾、很多社會都在談減碳我覺得這是好事可是我們也這裡看到其實有很多利用資訊不對稱的這個狀況其實會讓很多人受騙之前我其實已經開記者會其實提過了包括讓不了解探權或者是近鄰的民眾可能付了高昂的補習的費用或者是拿了其實明明不被官方認證的這樣子的一個證書"},{"start":418.127,"end":446.521,"text":"這都是在利用資訊不對等的狀況甚至有些我們看到它還造成在股市股價上面的波動那這對一些資訊不對稱的投資人來說也是不公平的事情我認為環境部應該要很清楚告訴大家我要再講一次現在哪裡要符合什麼規矩要符合什麼規範不然這樣資訊不對等的狀況如果繼續延燒的話或更廣泛的出現這狀況的話很有可能會引起社會對於以後都覺得在講減碳的"},{"start":448.092,"end":473.282,"text":"是不是都是投機行為?我們當然不希望大家現在非常非常期待的氣候行動都被認知為可能都是投機行為。我覺得這對於未來環境部在檢探淨零的工作上也會出現很大的阻礙。所以部長我覺得有幾個部分我們怎麼避免票率包括應該依據國際市場的高標準來進行審核跟運作資訊應該透明不可以過度的做不實的宣傳要符合申請國的規範要求"},{"start":474.562,"end":499.951,"text":"不可以濫用頭銜來誤導民眾這現在很多人在幹這事情喔媒體如果誤導不實的話媒體如果也不確定的話應該請教環境部給予明確的資訊至少給予清楚的透明化的資訊我覺得這環境部可以做的事情部長我們應該更積極這應該沒有問題吧好包委員您說的這個部分我們有在做但是或許我們做的還不夠我會持續的加強而且要更加大力道的對外宣示"},{"start":500.131,"end":525.817,"text":" bicy,我看到你最近跟外交部有合作關於一些氣候外交的部分也談到一些可能探權的合作我們要談到跨國探權前如果沒有辦法把這個規範清清楚楚的讓外界知道的話其實也會有人疑慮太快的進到所謂的國際探權會不會有更多這樣的投機行為或者是利用更大的跨國之間的資訊不對稱不對稱在做炒作的部分如果我們有更在這方面有更大的雄心我覺得"},{"start":526.897,"end":527.258,"text":" bicyclap"},{"start":539.671,"end":540.092,"text":"謝謝紅身漢委員接下來請黃建斌"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1666,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（11時56分）請彭部長。"],["主席：好，有請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長早。部長，我時間有限。這幾天我們大家都有看到，環境部針對今年在亞塞拜然進行的COP29中，有一些我們的記者會或者是一些發生的狀況，部長，但是我有看到，你在COP29第一天的記者會上面有提到，有許多參與的專家朋友都有收到一封來自UNFCCC主辦方的信件，在信件上面表示參與此會議的目的要很清楚，是為了減碳，而不是為了漂綠或是會議後做某些商業利益的宣稱，部長，你覺得UNFCCC主辦方為什麼要做這樣子的提醒？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為其實的確有一些單位或團體藉由參加會議，用代表團的身分，或是花錢購買了一些記者會或是周邊會議的入場機會，然後就宣稱他是聯合國的相關人員，然後透過新聞的傳送，就變成他是這個領域的人士，或是他是最棒的，那的確會造成整個社會的困擾。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我們現在很關心一件事情，第一個是，這兩個月很多單位都有收到一封檢舉信，這封檢舉信就是發自Verra，也就是國際碳權的核發跟認證機構，在VCS的平台上有這封檢舉信，這一封檢舉信的內容提到，有來自臺灣的機構在參與COP28的會議的時候，宣稱自己通過了Verra相關的碳權的批准，這個檢舉信的內容指說，這樣子的宣稱恐怕跟實質的狀況是不吻合的、是不符合的、是有落差的。部長，您有沒有收到這封檢舉信？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，有的。我們氣候署署長有在處理這個事情。"],["洪委員申翰：我們看到這個東西，我跟部長說，其實你應該知道，這段時間很多關心氣候變遷的國際組織，包括碳權相關的組織，都有收到這封信，我們看了以後，很多國際的氣候組織都紛紛來問我們，這一封檢舉信上面的內容是否屬實，到底說的是對的還是不對的，裡面的指控到底是對的還是不對的，因為裡面的內容還包括來自臺灣的機構是不是有違反其它國家在碳權認定上面相關的法規或方法學上面的規範，對於這封信上面的內容是不是真的，我沒有進行調查，我無法斷定，可是我認為環境部應該要積極地查明這件事情，這件事情為什麼重要？我們不能讓其他的國家，不管是官方單位、民間單位、專業單位，對跟臺灣有關的碳權相關的問題，產生信任上面的質疑。我想部長應該很清楚，一個合法的碳權的申請，尤其經過國際組織，是相當繁瑣的，為什麼要走過這麼多步驟，原因就是要去確認，credit這個字，有些人翻譯成信用，某部分也是大家對它產生信任，有這個信任，你才有辦法進行經濟市場上面的流通或交易等事情，重點是在於要有一定可信的正當性，包括合法性，是很重要的。所以部長，我們能夠在多短的時間裡面把剛剛這個訊息查明？到底指控是否屬實？如果有誤會，也澄清有誤會，但如果說的是真的，那我們環境部的態度是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：好。報告委員，我們請氣候署署長來說明。"],["蔡署長玲儀：是。跟委員報告，因為這一個案件是跟國際民間單位Verra來申請註冊，檢舉信的內容，據我們了解，是Verra他們自己本身也有請這個案件的申請單位要去釐清，那當然會涉及到我們國內，就是包括金管單位，因為可能也有上市、上櫃公司相關的事情，目前已經確認金管會已經掌握這個案子的進展。剛剛委員提醒在某個國家做的專案是不是符合該國相關法規，這個部分我們也可以再找我們國內的相關單位來查，但畢竟我們沒有辦法去對它的申請去釐清確認，但我們可以再進一步地去掌握。"],["洪委員申翰：署長，這個是向Verra這些國際上最重要的幾個國際碳權認證機構的檢舉，但是我自己認為，我們自己的環境部對於像這樣子的事情，到底具體掌握如何？看到這封檢舉信出來的時間是9月，其實距今已經兩個月了，到底我們掌握如何？我剛剛聽起來，覺得掌握的內容是不太足夠的。到底有沒有違反其他國家相關的法律？當然這件事情本身的釐清，Verra會去做某些部分它該做的事情，可是我認為我們的環境部要扮演的角色，就是要讓我們自己的企業很清楚規矩是什麼、規範是什麼、不能夠違反的是什麼，因為只要今天有一家企業在一個國際的平台上面違反規範的時候，很可能會讓其他的國際組織對同樣都是來自於臺灣的計畫、來自於臺灣的project，產生質疑，這就不只是單純一個計畫的問題了，它就是對於你這個國家的碳權認定都產生懷疑的問題，我覺得環境部必須扮演這個角色，所以我要說的事情是，有幾個部分，我們現在看到，當然現在大家都在談減碳，很多企業、很多民眾、很多事情都在談減碳，我覺得這是好事，可是我們也可以看到，有很多利用資訊不對稱的狀況讓很多人受騙。之前我已經開記者會提過了，包括讓不了解碳權或淨零的民眾，可能付了高昂的補習費用，或者是拿了明明不被官方認證的證書，這都是在利用資訊不對稱的狀況，甚至有些還造成在股市股價上面的波動，對一些資訊不對稱的投資人來說，也是不公平的事情，我認為環境部應該要很清楚地告訴大家，我要再講一次，要告訴大家，線在哪裡？要符合什麼規矩？要符合什麼規範？不然這樣子資訊不對等的狀況如果繼續延燒的話，或者更廣泛地出現這個狀況的話，很有可能引起社會以後都會覺得在講減碳的是不是都是投機行為。我們當然不希望，大家現在非常非常期待的氣候行動，都被認知為可能都是投機行為，我覺得這對於未來環境部減碳淨零的工作也會出現很大的阻礙。所以部長，我覺得有幾個部分我們要思考怎麼避免漂綠，考慮應該依據國際市場的高標準來進行審核跟運作，資訊應該透明，不可以過度地做不實的宣傳，要符合申請國的規範要求，不可以濫用頭銜來誤導民眾，現在很多人在幹這個事情，媒體如果不確定的話，應該要請教環境部，請環境部給予明確的資訊，至少給予清楚的、透明化的資訊，我覺得這個是環境部可以做的事情。部長，我們應該更積極，這應該沒有問題吧？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，您說的這個部分，我們有在做，但是或許我們做得還不夠，我會持續地加強，而且要更加大力道對外宣示。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我看到你最近跟外交部有合作，關於一些氣候外交的部分，也談到一些可能的碳權合作，我們要談到跨國碳權前，如果沒有辦法把這個規範清清楚楚地讓外界知道的話，其實也會有疑慮，太快進到國際碳權，會不會有更多這樣的投機行為？或者是利用更大的跨國之間的資訊不對稱在做炒作的部分，如果我們在這方面有更大的雄心，我覺得態度要更嚴謹，要更嚴格，好不好？這部分麻煩部長。","針對剛剛我提的那個檢舉信的事件，你覺得再多久時間，可以更清楚地把這個事情查明？"],["彭部長啓明：現在正在處理當中，一個月的時間可不可以？"],["洪委員申翰：一個月的時間，好不好？不管他說的內容是對的或不對的，我們都讓大家知道，不要讓外面對我們有疑慮，如果他說的是對的，那我們就應該積極地來處理，如果是不對的，我們也可以澄清，我覺得這都很好，但是重點是我們態度要清楚，查要快，已經兩個月了，好不好？部長。"],["彭部長啓明：好。謝謝委員指教，我們會努力來做。"],["洪委員申翰：謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪申翰委員。","接下來請黃建賓委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":348,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","盧縣一","蘇清泉","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","洪申翰","黃建賓","涂權吉","林俊憲","陳瑩","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","葉元之","劉建國","楊曜","張雅琳"],"page_start":85,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"11310001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結報告案2案；二、邀\n請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；三、審查中華民國 114年度中央政府總預算案關於\n環境部主管預算（公務及基金預算）（僅詢答）；四、審查環境部函送財團法人環境資源研究發\n展基金會等4家財團法人114年度預算書案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310001_00002"}}}