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00:00:10,063\n麻煩教育部長謝謝有請鄭部長\n\n2\n00:00:21,406 --> 00:00:40,425\n部長好,剛剛有看到台大校長有呼籲說我們要增加高教經費本席也是非常支持那看到部長講說明年會高教增加59億那高教生根增加20億那我是建議啦看看那個有關於大學社會責任實踐計畫能不能也增加預算\n\n3\n00:00:41,606 --> 00:01:05,703\n我覺得這樣的一個計畫其實對於減少學用落差是很有幫助的實際上配合高齡社會的來臨有些學校如果跟社區結合辦一些活躍老化的計畫其實不僅是可以讓學生學以致用更可以讓我們社區得到學校的協助因為畢竟大學的主要存在任務除了教學研究之外還有社區服務嘛那部長願意朝這個方向嗎\n\n4\n00:01:06,823 --> 00:01:27,385\n教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部\n\n5\n00:01:28,427 --> 00:01:28,907\n我覺得農業部怎麼會講這樣的話\n\n6\n00:01:59,308 --> 00:02:27,631\n實際上是補救路不夠嘛他當初發包的時候來投標廠商能夠供給的量就只有六成所以我們新北市現在還少大概六十萬瓶那你當務之急你應該要補足這個量啊怎麼會對外說我就不勉強學校喝了還有這樣子喔那當初你農業部教育部就不要宣傳班班有鮮奶嘛我已經講過了啊不要好像口號喊得很高實際上做不到你就喊說兩班喝一瓶鮮奶就好了嘛\n\n7\n00:02:29,517 --> 00:02:46,058\n因為部長你願意不是你去跟我又不溝通一下因為現在很多家長在等啊想說不是想說一個學期有44瓶一個禮拜兩瓶嗎然後現在因為沒量所以說我就不勉強你們喝了不是不勉強人家喝是不是人家喝不到啊部長你有瞭解這個狀況嗎\n\n8\n00:02:48,966 --> 00:03:16,898\n跟委員報告確實這個農業部在這個月底他會有一個你跟農業部講說請他趕快再找廠商來投標是你不是說因為不夠了講這種話都欺騙大家家長都生氣了我想應該農業部他就是農業部就這樣講的嘛農業部不會欺騙但是就是欺騙啦這一個廠商在整個供給我跟你講慢慢有先男一團亂農業部當初這樣隨便喊出來\n\n9\n00:03:18,065 --> 00:03:33,801\n教育部跟教育單位在那邊收爛攤子我還有聽說有老師叫家長帶一個麻布袋來說一次把44瓶領回家還有看到那包酒奶拿回家不是小朋友在喝是家長在喝都有\n\n10\n00:03:34,722 --> 00:03:46,952\n但是你當初喊這個口號你就要達成你不能說對不起我做不到我就不勉強你得了便宜還賣乖喔做不到還把事情把責任推給家長喔都是不好意思都是我勉強你們喝我現在不勉強你了這是什麼態度啊部長\n\n11\n00:03:51,656 --> 00:04:00,061\n政策是良善希望能夠對付的能不能跟農業部長溝通一下可不可以你去找他講叫他不要再隨便講這種話家長都生氣了第三個議題\n\n12\n00:04:09,907 --> 00:04:33,394\n那個有關於代理老師職前研資的計算因為大法官已經說違憲了嘛憲法法庭已經代理老師已經勝訴了但是這個事情已經隔了很久了已經非常久了那有很多代理老師在問我啊說說那現在進度怎麼樣實際上縣市政府還是並沒有把他的職前研資納入計算啊現在教育部的進度如何\n\n13\n00:04:36,379 --> 00:04:58,057\n確實這個有關代理老師的這一些年資的計算我們現在地方政府也正在激起的這個不是地方政府啦教育部你現在怎麼做嘛我想這裡邊有許多的這個老師的一個聘用是來自於地方的沒有沒有沒有你現在大法官是說請教育部在一年內修法嘛對吧你有看他的那個訴訟的主文嗎有嗎\n\n14\n00:04:59,738 --> 00:05:25,001\n修法是因為包含緣和是在地方。第二個就是說當然泰里老師是地方單位在沒錯啊問題是你是中央主管機關啊你要有個態度你要找大家來溝通啊你現在進度怎麼樣嗎是不是能夠詳細請這個彭署長是謝謝委員就如您最後一句話我們很快會召集地方政府在12月中在11月底12月中之間一定會召集11月底12月中會召集所以還沒召集喔\n\n15\n00:05:25,521 --> 00:05:45,375\n我們已經做過幕僚作業了現在是要正式會議你們不是民進黨最尊重大法官嗎怎麼大法官做決議都好像慢半拍這尊重法律所以大概已經在尊重那請問一下部長有沒有算過各縣市甚至全國如果把代理教師的職前年資納入計算的話要增加多少支出有計算過嗎\n\n16\n00:05:48,650 --> 00:06:01,801\n你知道為什麼會增加支出嗎?因為你如果把之前年資納入計算的話有時候他累積到一定的年限他要跳級嘛所以他薪酬會變高嘛那所以要增加支出嘛你有算過總共需要多少錢嗎?有算過嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:03,507 --> 00:06:23,722\n根據委員報告因為它會涉及到每一年老師禁用就是剛才那個委員所提的我都知道這些我都知道囉對沒錯所以這個要實際上我問你有沒有計算過因為是八月份的事情當年度禁用的大概四到六億間四到六億間四億到六億間對不對確定齁我跟你講齁新北市\n\n18\n00:06:30,626 --> 00:06:47,624\n如果要把帶給教師的值錢年資紀錄的話一年要兩億元啊一年要兩億啊我不知道你這四到六億是金錢因為我沒有去全國調查但西北市是兩億那這個其實對地方財政是一個很也是一個很大的負擔嘛那現在民進黨也不願意修財化法嘛\n\n19\n00:06:48,854 --> 00:07:12,141\n所以我是希望教育部第一個啦你可以考慮啦這筆預算應該是中央來編列啦去補助地方因為上一次代理教師本來是薪水是算10個月後來算到一年的時候中央只有補助第一年的一半所以後來每一年地方政府都要自己去自籌這個財源其實真的對於地方政府的財源也是造成負擔\n\n20\n00:07:13,188 --> 00:07:22,690\n那所以這個部分教育部是可以補助地方嗎?我剛剛講譬如說新北市2億剛剛署長講說全國是4到6億嘛那教育部有考慮要補助嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:24,329 --> 00:07:50,980\n跟我們報告確實這個教師的顏額是由地方來控管不是吧你那個時候你代理教師的你說從薪資從10個月到12個月當時教育部就有補助只是我們當然覺得不夠你只有補助第一年的一半而已現在就問你說之前年資紀錄這全國4到6億當然希望教育部可以編列預算來補助地方政府因為財務法你也不讓他過\n\n22\n00:07:52,065 --> 00:08:12,808\n委員剛剛所提的大禮老師全年年資那個第一年因為之前年資啊還沒剛剛您提到的那個第一次有補全月的全月全年的那個是因為第一年還沒編所以我們有補第二年以後都那一般性補助接著回到這個案子這個案子因為是有緣額如果非屬他們緣額是屬於計劃性的我們歷來都會有分工\n\n23\n00:08:13,748 --> 00:08:19,573\n原額本來就有正式原額的經費本來就可以支援給代理老師的所有費用至於計劃性教育部補助的部分我們會來處理\n\n24\n00:08:30,748 --> 00:08:59,916\n沒有沒有你就針對我的問題回答不要繞圈圈啦所以剛剛跟委員報告的是增加了4到6億這教育部有沒有要編預算就是補助地方政府還是說叫地方政府自籌裁員就這麼簡單的問題不要繞圈圈所以簡單的回答就是說屬於他的原額的部分他自己有經費非屬他原額屬於外加計劃性由中央補助的部分你會計劃性的你會給然後再一般的但問題是你4到6億裡面多少是計劃性原額多少是一般性原額這個是會不會跟\n\n25\n00:09:00,316 --> 00:09:01,717\n市長,因為教育部是最高的教育單位\n\n26\n00:09:25,424 --> 00:09:45,161\n那這部分我覺得你對老師好一點雖然是地方政府負責的但你對老師好一點我覺得對全國教育都有幫助啦好不好不要分那麼清楚啦你演繹一下你演繹一下然後再來跟那個我剛剛那個問題再請教一下所以什麼時候代理老師可以領導可以把他的職前年資納入基金最快什麼時候\n\n27\n00:09:45,984 --> 00:10:11,613\n按照憲法法庭的要求就是114學年114學年對,它是一年嘛對,114,最快114學年就可以納入最慢最慢,那最快勒?這個跟地方政府在一起在研究但是最慢一定在憲法法庭要求的一年內一定要處理完齁,那是憲法法庭嘛我如果你說你站在教育機關你的態度嘛不要跟我繞圈圈啦一個目標啦,最快多少?\n\n28\n00:10:12,753 --> 00:10:25,517\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學�\n\n29\n00:10:38,520 --> 00:11:03,396\n最快這個可能還要跟地方政府一起會商尊重他們尊重地方政府你沒有目標就對了最慢一定在114年我當然知道啊不然你就違憲了嘛我先講是最快啦謝謝部長再請教一下齁那個我來問一個體育的問題喔我們有一個足球的六年的計畫嘛當初六年計畫編列多少43億嘛是不是\n\n30\n00:11:05,484 --> 00:11:28,539\n是。是嗎?是。43億。然後那個時候,這個足球練習計畫有定一個目標啦。就是希望說我們的世界排名可以到100名以內。對吧?市長知道這是嗎?市長知道這是嗎?是。可是問題是,到目前為止,這六年計畫過去之後,我們看到2024年的10月,我們FIFA的男子足球世界排名掉到168名。\n\n31\n00:11:31,366 --> 00:11:44,019\n並沒有達到當時的目標那你知道說這個原因是什麼?署長知道嗎?報告委員那這個並不是在我任內去執行但是我大概知道是誰在任內不管嘛你先去署長嘛\n\n32\n00:11:46,209 --> 00:12:14,342\n在執行的過程這個是男子的計畫不是女子足球的計畫這男子的計畫的部分他們在執行的過程其實沒有花到私籍大概20億左右對這是另外一個問題那個是另外一個問題我講的是說本來當初設定的目標是要到100名以內那本來應該是10年的計畫可是他把它縮了6年所以在整個執行狀況其實不是那麼的好你先不要跟我講執行狀況我現在講是排名落後是事實嘛對不對對所以你的意思是排名落後原因是因為他的預算執行不利是不是\n\n33\n00:12:14,602 --> 00:12:39,561\n不是,是因為整個計劃理論上當時撰寫的時候應該是10年的計劃所以是計劃寫錯?我們是當時把它壓縮了6年就要執行其實這個部分我們目前正在內部在檢查你就是說因為就是我講的嘛,排名沒有辦法往前的原因是因為計劃無法執行嘛但是這個計劃對我們的基層是有幫助的所以我們基層現在人口是非常的增加多的當然都有幫助只是你幫助了多少而已\n\n34\n00:12:40,602 --> 00:12:55,375\n當然都有幫助啦你錢花下去多少都有幫助但是你沒有達到你當初的期望嘛所以6年的期望其實我們從6年那既然你講到這個經費執行的狀況我們可以看一下它執行率確實是很低啦按照你講的因為執行率只有到47.22嘛是\n\n35\n00:12:57,396 --> 00:13:09,152\n有的執行率,像運發基金所編列出來的健全國家隊選訓賽的輔獎執行率只有36.49完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41為什麼完善硬體設施執行率這麼差?\n\n36\n00:13:13,786 --> 00:13:30,613\n包委員,這個計畫它是從各個不同的預算科目去把它聚集成一個計畫,並不是一個特別預算,所以它的整個的執行率是拆開來看,但整體來講是47%對,我知道,我現在就去問說為什麼完善,你聽我問好不好,組長,不用急著搶話啦,我們可以問問題嗎?\n\n37\n00:13:38,279 --> 00:14:05,569\n請問一下為什麼完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41是沒有人要提出計劃申請嗎?還是怎麼樣?是的那你當初訂這樣的一個計劃性的補助用意有達到嗎?沒有達到沒有達到嘛所以這也是財化法重要嘛就是中央收一堆錢訂了一個計劃性補助地方根本都沒來申請嘛你不如把錢給地方地方可以按照自己的優先順序來排自己要做的事情嘛那你現在怎麼去改善呢?\n\n38\n00:14:10,581 --> 00:14:17,344\n全國在整個土地分區以及土地的部分我們在請鑽納學來做同行的研討及主動來規劃目前我們還在研擬當中因為是去年才剛結案而已\n\n39\n00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:40,191\n對去年結案趙同學講你要延續啊我們現在還在進行因為這個部分還需要進一步所以沒有任何的改善的計畫目前我們是將整個通盤的主力先檢討完因為我們剛剛有看到問題我沒有看到問題嘛我沒有看到問題嘛資訊不立嘛我沒有看到問題排名往後嘛請問怎麼改善\n\n40\n00:14:47,577 --> 00:15:09,975\n我先把硬體的土地先找到那個署長是不是後續在原汁委員說明好嗎不是啦你講的都很空洞啊你有講嗎你有講跟沒講一樣你怎麼改善嘛你先講嘛我先從設施土地部分先解決所以六年遇到什麼問題要解決就是我們的整個土地我們的場地是不足的後續再到您辦公室說明好嗎你確定他會來嗎\n\n41\n00:15:11,851 --> 00:15:31,830\n屬長你可以過去出庭吧那官員都這麼傲慢都傲慢成這個樣子問他問題一直插話然後不讓人家問然後繞圈圈都傲慢成這樣他已經答應會到你辦公室什麼時候不是你今天你這個問題你說你要改善但是講不出個所以然出來我剛剛已經回答你就說什麼土地問題解決這個問題就解決了嗎\n\n42\n00:15:34,793 --> 00:15:34,933\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9602\t10063\t麻煩教育部長謝謝有請鄭部長\n21406\t40425\t部長好,剛剛有看到台大校長有呼籲說我們要增加高教經費本席也是非常支持那看到部長講說明年會高教增加59億那高教生根增加20億那我是建議啦看看那個有關於大學社會責任實踐計畫能不能也增加預算\n41606\t65703\t我覺得這樣的一個計畫其實對於減少學用落差是很有幫助的實際上配合高齡社會的來臨有些學校如果跟社區結合辦一些活躍老化的計畫其實不僅是可以讓學生學以致用更可以讓我們社區得到學校的協助因為畢竟大學的主要存在任務除了教學研究之外還有社區服務嘛那部長願意朝這個方向嗎\n66823\t87385\t教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部\n88427\t88907\t我覺得農業部怎麼會講這樣的話\n119308\t147631\t實際上是補救路不夠嘛他當初發包的時候來投標廠商能夠供給的量就只有六成所以我們新北市現在還少大概六十萬瓶那你當務之急你應該要補足這個量啊怎麼會對外說我就不勉強學校喝了還有這樣子喔那當初你農業部教育部就不要宣傳班班有鮮奶嘛我已經講過了啊不要好像口號喊得很高實際上做不到你就喊說兩班喝一瓶鮮奶就好了嘛\n149517\t166058\t因為部長你願意不是你去跟我又不溝通一下因為現在很多家長在等啊想說不是想說一個學期有44瓶一個禮拜兩瓶嗎然後現在因為沒量所以說我就不勉強你們喝了不是不勉強人家喝是不是人家喝不到啊部長你有瞭解這個狀況嗎\n168966\t196898\t跟委員報告確實這個農業部在這個月底他會有一個你跟農業部講說請他趕快再找廠商來投標是你不是說因為不夠了講這種話都欺騙大家家長都生氣了我想應該農業部他就是農業部就這樣講的嘛農業部不會欺騙但是就是欺騙啦這一個廠商在整個供給我跟你講慢慢有先男一團亂農業部當初這樣隨便喊出來\n198065\t213801\t教育部跟教育單位在那邊收爛攤子我還有聽說有老師叫家長帶一個麻布袋來說一次把44瓶領回家還有看到那包酒奶拿回家不是小朋友在喝是家長在喝都有\n214722\t226952\t但是你當初喊這個口號你就要達成你不能說對不起我做不到我就不勉強你得了便宜還賣乖喔做不到還把事情把責任推給家長喔都是不好意思都是我勉強你們喝我現在不勉強你了這是什麼態度啊部長\n231656\t240061\t政策是良善希望能夠對付的能不能跟農業部長溝通一下可不可以你去找他講叫他不要再隨便講這種話家長都生氣了第三個議題\n249907\t273394\t那個有關於代理老師職前研資的計算因為大法官已經說違憲了嘛憲法法庭已經代理老師已經勝訴了但是這個事情已經隔了很久了已經非常久了那有很多代理老師在問我啊說說那現在進度怎麼樣實際上縣市政府還是並沒有把他的職前研資納入計算啊現在教育部的進度如何\n276379\t298057\t確實這個有關代理老師的這一些年資的計算我們現在地方政府也正在激起的這個不是地方政府啦教育部你現在怎麼做嘛我想這裡邊有許多的這個老師的一個聘用是來自於地方的沒有沒有沒有你現在大法官是說請教育部在一年內修法嘛對吧你有看他的那個訴訟的主文嗎有嗎\n299738\t325001\t修法是因為包含緣和是在地方。第二個就是說當然泰里老師是地方單位在沒錯啊問題是你是中央主管機關啊你要有個態度你要找大家來溝通啊你現在進度怎麼樣嗎是不是能夠詳細請這個彭署長是謝謝委員就如您最後一句話我們很快會召集地方政府在12月中在11月底12月中之間一定會召集11月底12月中會召集所以還沒召集喔\n325521\t345375\t我們已經做過幕僚作業了現在是要正式會議你們不是民進黨最尊重大法官嗎怎麼大法官做決議都好像慢半拍這尊重法律所以大概已經在尊重那請問一下部長有沒有算過各縣市甚至全國如果把代理教師的職前年資納入計算的話要增加多少支出有計算過嗎\n348650\t361801\t你知道為什麼會增加支出嗎?因為你如果把之前年資納入計算的話有時候他累積到一定的年限他要跳級嘛所以他薪酬會變高嘛那所以要增加支出嘛你有算過總共需要多少錢嗎?有算過嗎?\n363507\t383722\t根據委員報告因為它會涉及到每一年老師禁用就是剛才那個委員所提的我都知道這些我都知道囉對沒錯所以這個要實際上我問你有沒有計算過因為是八月份的事情當年度禁用的大概四到六億間四到六億間四億到六億間對不對確定齁我跟你講齁新北市\n390626\t407624\t如果要把帶給教師的值錢年資紀錄的話一年要兩億元啊一年要兩億啊我不知道你這四到六億是金錢因為我沒有去全國調查但西北市是兩億那這個其實對地方財政是一個很也是一個很大的負擔嘛那現在民進黨也不願意修財化法嘛\n408854\t432141\t所以我是希望教育部第一個啦你可以考慮啦這筆預算應該是中央來編列啦去補助地方因為上一次代理教師本來是薪水是算10個月後來算到一年的時候中央只有補助第一年的一半所以後來每一年地方政府都要自己去自籌這個財源其實真的對於地方政府的財源也是造成負擔\n433188\t442690\t那所以這個部分教育部是可以補助地方嗎?我剛剛講譬如說新北市2億剛剛署長講說全國是4到6億嘛那教育部有考慮要補助嗎?\n444329\t470980\t跟我們報告確實這個教師的顏額是由地方來控管不是吧你那個時候你代理教師的你說從薪資從10個月到12個月當時教育部就有補助只是我們當然覺得不夠你只有補助第一年的一半而已現在就問你說之前年資紀錄這全國4到6億當然希望教育部可以編列預算來補助地方政府因為財務法你也不讓他過\n472065\t492808\t委員剛剛所提的大禮老師全年年資那個第一年因為之前年資啊還沒剛剛您提到的那個第一次有補全月的全月全年的那個是因為第一年還沒編所以我們有補第二年以後都那一般性補助接著回到這個案子這個案子因為是有緣額如果非屬他們緣額是屬於計劃性的我們歷來都會有分工\n493748\t499573\t原額本來就有正式原額的經費本來就可以支援給代理老師的所有費用至於計劃性教育部補助的部分我們會來處理\n510748\t539916\t沒有沒有你就針對我的問題回答不要繞圈圈啦所以剛剛跟委員報告的是增加了4到6億這教育部有沒有要編預算就是補助地方政府還是說叫地方政府自籌裁員就這麼簡單的問題不要繞圈圈所以簡單的回答就是說屬於他的原額的部分他自己有經費非屬他原額屬於外加計劃性由中央補助的部分你會計劃性的你會給然後再一般的但問題是你4到6億裡面多少是計劃性原額多少是一般性原額這個是會不會跟\n540316\t541717\t市長,因為教育部是最高的教育單位\n565424\t585161\t那這部分我覺得你對老師好一點雖然是地方政府負責的但你對老師好一點我覺得對全國教育都有幫助啦好不好不要分那麼清楚啦你演繹一下你演繹一下然後再來跟那個我剛剛那個問題再請教一下所以什麼時候代理老師可以領導可以把他的職前年資納入基金最快什麼時候\n585984\t611613\t按照憲法法庭的要求就是114學年114學年對,它是一年嘛對,114,最快114學年就可以納入最慢最慢,那最快勒?這個跟地方政府在一起在研究但是最慢一定在憲法法庭要求的一年內一定要處理完齁,那是憲法法庭嘛我如果你說你站在教育機關你的態度嘛不要跟我繞圈圈啦一個目標啦,最快多少?\n612753\t625517\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學�\n638520\t663396\t最快這個可能還要跟地方政府一起會商尊重他們尊重地方政府你沒有目標就對了最慢一定在114年我當然知道啊不然你就違憲了嘛我先講是最快啦謝謝部長再請教一下齁那個我來問一個體育的問題喔我們有一個足球的六年的計畫嘛當初六年計畫編列多少43億嘛是不是\n665484\t688539\t是。是嗎?是。43億。然後那個時候,這個足球練習計畫有定一個目標啦。就是希望說我們的世界排名可以到100名以內。對吧?市長知道這是嗎?市長知道這是嗎?是。可是問題是,到目前為止,這六年計畫過去之後,我們看到2024年的10月,我們FIFA的男子足球世界排名掉到168名。\n691366\t704019\t並沒有達到當時的目標那你知道說這個原因是什麼?署長知道嗎?報告委員那這個並不是在我任內去執行但是我大概知道是誰在任內不管嘛你先去署長嘛\n706209\t734342\t在執行的過程這個是男子的計畫不是女子足球的計畫這男子的計畫的部分他們在執行的過程其實沒有花到私籍大概20億左右對這是另外一個問題那個是另外一個問題我講的是說本來當初設定的目標是要到100名以內那本來應該是10年的計畫可是他把它縮了6年所以在整個執行狀況其實不是那麼的好你先不要跟我講執行狀況我現在講是排名落後是事實嘛對不對對所以你的意思是排名落後原因是因為他的預算執行不利是不是\n734602\t759561\t不是,是因為整個計劃理論上當時撰寫的時候應該是10年的計劃所以是計劃寫錯?我們是當時把它壓縮了6年就要執行其實這個部分我們目前正在內部在檢查你就是說因為就是我講的嘛,排名沒有辦法往前的原因是因為計劃無法執行嘛但是這個計劃對我們的基層是有幫助的所以我們基層現在人口是非常的增加多的當然都有幫助只是你幫助了多少而已\n760602\t775375\t當然都有幫助啦你錢花下去多少都有幫助但是你沒有達到你當初的期望嘛所以6年的期望其實我們從6年那既然你講到這個經費執行的狀況我們可以看一下它執行率確實是很低啦按照你講的因為執行率只有到47.22嘛是\n777396\t789152\t有的執行率,像運發基金所編列出來的健全國家隊選訓賽的輔獎執行率只有36.49完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41為什麼完善硬體設施執行率這麼差?\n793786\t810613\t包委員,這個計畫它是從各個不同的預算科目去把它聚集成一個計畫,並不是一個特別預算,所以它的整個的執行率是拆開來看,但整體來講是47%對,我知道,我現在就去問說為什麼完善,你聽我問好不好,組長,不用急著搶話啦,我們可以問問題嗎?\n818279\t845569\t請問一下為什麼完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41是沒有人要提出計劃申請嗎?還是怎麼樣?是的那你當初訂這樣的一個計劃性的補助用意有達到嗎?沒有達到沒有達到嘛所以這也是財化法重要嘛就是中央收一堆錢訂了一個計劃性補助地方根本都沒來申請嘛你不如把錢給地方地方可以按照自己的優先順序來排自己要做的事情嘛那你現在怎麼去改善呢?\n850581\t857344\t全國在整個土地分區以及土地的部分我們在請鑽納學來做同行的研討及主動來規劃目前我們還在研擬當中因為是去年才剛結案而已\n867700\t880191\t對 去年結案 趙同學講你要延續啊我們現在還在進行 因為這個部分還需要進一步所以沒有任何的改善的計畫目前我們是將整個通盤的主力先檢討完因為我們剛剛有看到問題我沒有看到問題嘛 我沒有看到問題嘛 資訊不立嘛我沒有看到問題排名往後嘛請問怎麼改善\n887577\t909975\t我先把硬體的土地先找到那個署長是不是後續在原汁委員說明好嗎不是啦你講的都很空洞啊你有講嗎你有講跟沒講一樣你怎麼改善嘛你先講嘛我先從設施土地部分先解決所以六年遇到什麼問題要解決就是我們的整個土地我們的場地是不足的後續再到您辦公室說明好嗎你確定他會來嗎\n911851\t931830\t屬長你可以過去出庭吧那官員都這麼傲慢都傲慢成這個樣子問他問題一直插話然後不讓人家問然後繞圈圈都傲慢成這樣他已經答應會到你辦公室什麼時候不是你今天你這個問題你說你要改善但是講不出個所以然出來我剛剛已經回答你就說什麼土地問題解決這個問題就解決了嗎\n934793\t934933\t主席\n","txt":"麻煩教育部長謝謝有請鄭部長\n部長好,剛剛有看到台大校長有呼籲說我們要增加高教經費本席也是非常支持那看到部長講說明年會高教增加59億那高教生根增加20億那我是建議啦看看那個有關於大學社會責任實踐計畫能不能也增加預算\n我覺得這樣的一個計畫其實對於減少學用落差是很有幫助的實際上配合高齡社會的來臨有些學校如果跟社區結合辦一些活躍老化的計畫其實不僅是可以讓學生學以致用更可以讓我們社區得到學校的協助因為畢竟大學的主要存在任務除了教學研究之外還有社區服務嘛那部長願意朝這個方向嗎\n教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部\n我覺得農業部怎麼會講這樣的話\n實際上是補救路不夠嘛他當初發包的時候來投標廠商能夠供給的量就只有六成所以我們新北市現在還少大概六十萬瓶那你當務之急你應該要補足這個量啊怎麼會對外說我就不勉強學校喝了還有這樣子喔那當初你農業部教育部就不要宣傳班班有鮮奶嘛我已經講過了啊不要好像口號喊得很高實際上做不到你就喊說兩班喝一瓶鮮奶就好了嘛\n因為部長你願意不是你去跟我又不溝通一下因為現在很多家長在等啊想說不是想說一個學期有44瓶一個禮拜兩瓶嗎然後現在因為沒量所以說我就不勉強你們喝了不是不勉強人家喝是不是人家喝不到啊部長你有瞭解這個狀況嗎\n跟委員報告確實這個農業部在這個月底他會有一個你跟農業部講說請他趕快再找廠商來投標是你不是說因為不夠了講這種話都欺騙大家家長都生氣了我想應該農業部他就是農業部就這樣講的嘛農業部不會欺騙但是就是欺騙啦這一個廠商在整個供給我跟你講慢慢有先男一團亂農業部當初這樣隨便喊出來\n教育部跟教育單位在那邊收爛攤子我還有聽說有老師叫家長帶一個麻布袋來說一次把44瓶領回家還有看到那包酒奶拿回家不是小朋友在喝是家長在喝都有\n但是你當初喊這個口號你就要達成你不能說對不起我做不到我就不勉強你得了便宜還賣乖喔做不到還把事情把責任推給家長喔都是不好意思都是我勉強你們喝我現在不勉強你了這是什麼態度啊部長\n政策是良善希望能夠對付的能不能跟農業部長溝通一下可不可以你去找他講叫他不要再隨便講這種話家長都生氣了第三個議題\n那個有關於代理老師職前研資的計算因為大法官已經說違憲了嘛憲法法庭已經代理老師已經勝訴了但是這個事情已經隔了很久了已經非常久了那有很多代理老師在問我啊說說那現在進度怎麼樣實際上縣市政府還是並沒有把他的職前研資納入計算啊現在教育部的進度如何\n確實這個有關代理老師的這一些年資的計算我們現在地方政府也正在激起的這個不是地方政府啦教育部你現在怎麼做嘛我想這裡邊有許多的這個老師的一個聘用是來自於地方的沒有沒有沒有你現在大法官是說請教育部在一年內修法嘛對吧你有看他的那個訴訟的主文嗎有嗎\n修法是因為包含緣和是在地方。第二個就是說當然泰里老師是地方單位在沒錯啊問題是你是中央主管機關啊你要有個態度你要找大家來溝通啊你現在進度怎麼樣嗎是不是能夠詳細請這個彭署長是謝謝委員就如您最後一句話我們很快會召集地方政府在12月中在11月底12月中之間一定會召集11月底12月中會召集所以還沒召集喔\n我們已經做過幕僚作業了現在是要正式會議你們不是民進黨最尊重大法官嗎怎麼大法官做決議都好像慢半拍這尊重法律所以大概已經在尊重那請問一下部長有沒有算過各縣市甚至全國如果把代理教師的職前年資納入計算的話要增加多少支出有計算過嗎\n你知道為什麼會增加支出嗎?因為你如果把之前年資納入計算的話有時候他累積到一定的年限他要跳級嘛所以他薪酬會變高嘛那所以要增加支出嘛你有算過總共需要多少錢嗎?有算過嗎?\n根據委員報告因為它會涉及到每一年老師禁用就是剛才那個委員所提的我都知道這些我都知道囉對沒錯所以這個要實際上我問你有沒有計算過因為是八月份的事情當年度禁用的大概四到六億間四到六億間四億到六億間對不對確定齁我跟你講齁新北市\n如果要把帶給教師的值錢年資紀錄的話一年要兩億元啊一年要兩億啊我不知道你這四到六億是金錢因為我沒有去全國調查但西北市是兩億那這個其實對地方財政是一個很也是一個很大的負擔嘛那現在民進黨也不願意修財化法嘛\n所以我是希望教育部第一個啦你可以考慮啦這筆預算應該是中央來編列啦去補助地方因為上一次代理教師本來是薪水是算10個月後來算到一年的時候中央只有補助第一年的一半所以後來每一年地方政府都要自己去自籌這個財源其實真的對於地方政府的財源也是造成負擔\n那所以這個部分教育部是可以補助地方嗎?我剛剛講譬如說新北市2億剛剛署長講說全國是4到6億嘛那教育部有考慮要補助嗎?\n跟我們報告確實這個教師的顏額是由地方來控管不是吧你那個時候你代理教師的你說從薪資從10個月到12個月當時教育部就有補助只是我們當然覺得不夠你只有補助第一年的一半而已現在就問你說之前年資紀錄這全國4到6億當然希望教育部可以編列預算來補助地方政府因為財務法你也不讓他過\n委員剛剛所提的大禮老師全年年資那個第一年因為之前年資啊還沒剛剛您提到的那個第一次有補全月的全月全年的那個是因為第一年還沒編所以我們有補第二年以後都那一般性補助接著回到這個案子這個案子因為是有緣額如果非屬他們緣額是屬於計劃性的我們歷來都會有分工\n原額本來就有正式原額的經費本來就可以支援給代理老師的所有費用至於計劃性教育部補助的部分我們會來處理\n沒有沒有你就針對我的問題回答不要繞圈圈啦所以剛剛跟委員報告的是增加了4到6億這教育部有沒有要編預算就是補助地方政府還是說叫地方政府自籌裁員就這麼簡單的問題不要繞圈圈所以簡單的回答就是說屬於他的原額的部分他自己有經費非屬他原額屬於外加計劃性由中央補助的部分你會計劃性的你會給然後再一般的但問題是你4到6億裡面多少是計劃性原額多少是一般性原額這個是會不會跟\n市長,因為教育部是最高的教育單位\n那這部分我覺得你對老師好一點雖然是地方政府負責的但你對老師好一點我覺得對全國教育都有幫助啦好不好不要分那麼清楚啦你演繹一下你演繹一下然後再來跟那個我剛剛那個問題再請教一下所以什麼時候代理老師可以領導可以把他的職前年資納入基金最快什麼時候\n按照憲法法庭的要求就是114學年114學年對,它是一年嘛對,114,最快114學年就可以納入最慢最慢,那最快勒?這個跟地方政府在一起在研究但是最慢一定在憲法法庭要求的一年內一定要處理完齁,那是憲法法庭嘛我如果你說你站在教育機關你的態度嘛不要跟我繞圈圈啦一個目標啦,最快多少?\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學�\n最快這個可能還要跟地方政府一起會商尊重他們尊重地方政府你沒有目標就對了最慢一定在114年我當然知道啊不然你就違憲了嘛我先講是最快啦謝謝部長再請教一下齁那個我來問一個體育的問題喔我們有一個足球的六年的計畫嘛當初六年計畫編列多少43億嘛是不是\n是。是嗎?是。43億。然後那個時候,這個足球練習計畫有定一個目標啦。就是希望說我們的世界排名可以到100名以內。對吧?市長知道這是嗎?市長知道這是嗎?是。可是問題是,到目前為止,這六年計畫過去之後,我們看到2024年的10月,我們FIFA的男子足球世界排名掉到168名。\n並沒有達到當時的目標那你知道說這個原因是什麼?署長知道嗎?報告委員那這個並不是在我任內去執行但是我大概知道是誰在任內不管嘛你先去署長嘛\n在執行的過程這個是男子的計畫不是女子足球的計畫這男子的計畫的部分他們在執行的過程其實沒有花到私籍大概20億左右對這是另外一個問題那個是另外一個問題我講的是說本來當初設定的目標是要到100名以內那本來應該是10年的計畫可是他把它縮了6年所以在整個執行狀況其實不是那麼的好你先不要跟我講執行狀況我現在講是排名落後是事實嘛對不對對所以你的意思是排名落後原因是因為他的預算執行不利是不是\n不是,是因為整個計劃理論上當時撰寫的時候應該是10年的計劃所以是計劃寫錯?我們是當時把它壓縮了6年就要執行其實這個部分我們目前正在內部在檢查你就是說因為就是我講的嘛,排名沒有辦法往前的原因是因為計劃無法執行嘛但是這個計劃對我們的基層是有幫助的所以我們基層現在人口是非常的增加多的當然都有幫助只是你幫助了多少而已\n當然都有幫助啦你錢花下去多少都有幫助但是你沒有達到你當初的期望嘛所以6年的期望其實我們從6年那既然你講到這個經費執行的狀況我們可以看一下它執行率確實是很低啦按照你講的因為執行率只有到47.22嘛是\n有的執行率,像運發基金所編列出來的健全國家隊選訓賽的輔獎執行率只有36.49完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41為什麼完善硬體設施執行率這麼差?\n包委員,這個計畫它是從各個不同的預算科目去把它聚集成一個計畫,並不是一個特別預算,所以它的整個的執行率是拆開來看,但整體來講是47%對,我知道,我現在就去問說為什麼完善,你聽我問好不好,組長,不用急著搶話啦,我們可以問問題嗎?\n請問一下為什麼完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41是沒有人要提出計劃申請嗎?還是怎麼樣?是的那你當初訂這樣的一個計劃性的補助用意有達到嗎?沒有達到沒有達到嘛所以這也是財化法重要嘛就是中央收一堆錢訂了一個計劃性補助地方根本都沒來申請嘛你不如把錢給地方地方可以按照自己的優先順序來排自己要做的事情嘛那你現在怎麼去改善呢?\n全國在整個土地分區以及土地的部分我們在請鑽納學來做同行的研討及主動來規劃目前我們還在研擬當中因為是去年才剛結案而已\n對 去年結案 趙同學講你要延續啊我們現在還在進行 因為這個部分還需要進一步所以沒有任何的改善的計畫目前我們是將整個通盤的主力先檢討完因為我們剛剛有看到問題我沒有看到問題嘛 我沒有看到問題嘛 資訊不立嘛我沒有看到問題排名往後嘛請問怎麼改善\n我先把硬體的土地先找到那個署長是不是後續在原汁委員說明好嗎不是啦你講的都很空洞啊你有講嗎你有講跟沒講一樣你怎麼改善嘛你先講嘛我先從設施土地部分先解決所以六年遇到什麼問題要解決就是我們的整個土地我們的場地是不足的後續再到您辦公室說明好嗎你確定他會來嗎\n屬長你可以過去出庭吧那官員都這麼傲慢都傲慢成這個樣子問他問題一直插話然後不讓人家問然後繞圈圈都傲慢成這樣他已經答應會到你辦公室什麼時候不是你今天你這個問題你說你要改善但是講不出個所以然出來我剛剛已經回答你就說什麼土地問題解決這個問題就解決了嗎\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.602 --> 00:10.063\n麻煩教育部長謝謝有請鄭部長\n\n00:21.406 --> 00:40.425\n部長好,剛剛有看到台大校長有呼籲說我們要增加高教經費本席也是非常支持那看到部長講說明年會高教增加59億那高教生根增加20億那我是建議啦看看那個有關於大學社會責任實踐計畫能不能也增加預算\n\n00:41.606 --> 01:05.703\n我覺得這樣的一個計畫其實對於減少學用落差是很有幫助的實際上配合高齡社會的來臨有些學校如果跟社區結合辦一些活躍老化的計畫其實不僅是可以讓學生學以致用更可以讓我們社區得到學校的協助因為畢竟大學的主要存在任務除了教學研究之外還有社區服務嘛那部長願意朝這個方向嗎\n\n01:06.823 --> 01:27.385\n教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部\n\n01:28.427 --> 01:28.907\n我覺得農業部怎麼會講這樣的話\n\n01:59.308 --> 02:27.631\n實際上是補救路不夠嘛他當初發包的時候來投標廠商能夠供給的量就只有六成所以我們新北市現在還少大概六十萬瓶那你當務之急你應該要補足這個量啊怎麼會對外說我就不勉強學校喝了還有這樣子喔那當初你農業部教育部就不要宣傳班班有鮮奶嘛我已經講過了啊不要好像口號喊得很高實際上做不到你就喊說兩班喝一瓶鮮奶就好了嘛\n\n02:29.517 --> 02:46.058\n因為部長你願意不是你去跟我又不溝通一下因為現在很多家長在等啊想說不是想說一個學期有44瓶一個禮拜兩瓶嗎然後現在因為沒量所以說我就不勉強你們喝了不是不勉強人家喝是不是人家喝不到啊部長你有瞭解這個狀況嗎\n\n02:48.966 --> 03:16.898\n跟委員報告確實這個農業部在這個月底他會有一個你跟農業部講說請他趕快再找廠商來投標是你不是說因為不夠了講這種話都欺騙大家家長都生氣了我想應該農業部他就是農業部就這樣講的嘛農業部不會欺騙但是就是欺騙啦這一個廠商在整個供給我跟你講慢慢有先男一團亂農業部當初這樣隨便喊出來\n\n03:18.065 --> 03:33.801\n教育部跟教育單位在那邊收爛攤子我還有聽說有老師叫家長帶一個麻布袋來說一次把44瓶領回家還有看到那包酒奶拿回家不是小朋友在喝是家長在喝都有\n\n03:34.722 --> 03:46.952\n但是你當初喊這個口號你就要達成你不能說對不起我做不到我就不勉強你得了便宜還賣乖喔做不到還把事情把責任推給家長喔都是不好意思都是我勉強你們喝我現在不勉強你了這是什麼態度啊部長\n\n03:51.656 --> 04:00.061\n政策是良善希望能夠對付的能不能跟農業部長溝通一下可不可以你去找他講叫他不要再隨便講這種話家長都生氣了第三個議題\n\n04:09.907 --> 04:33.394\n那個有關於代理老師職前研資的計算因為大法官已經說違憲了嘛憲法法庭已經代理老師已經勝訴了但是這個事情已經隔了很久了已經非常久了那有很多代理老師在問我啊說說那現在進度怎麼樣實際上縣市政府還是並沒有把他的職前研資納入計算啊現在教育部的進度如何\n\n04:36.379 --> 04:58.057\n確實這個有關代理老師的這一些年資的計算我們現在地方政府也正在激起的這個不是地方政府啦教育部你現在怎麼做嘛我想這裡邊有許多的這個老師的一個聘用是來自於地方的沒有沒有沒有你現在大法官是說請教育部在一年內修法嘛對吧你有看他的那個訴訟的主文嗎有嗎\n\n04:59.738 --> 05:25.001\n修法是因為包含緣和是在地方。第二個就是說當然泰里老師是地方單位在沒錯啊問題是你是中央主管機關啊你要有個態度你要找大家來溝通啊你現在進度怎麼樣嗎是不是能夠詳細請這個彭署長是謝謝委員就如您最後一句話我們很快會召集地方政府在12月中在11月底12月中之間一定會召集11月底12月中會召集所以還沒召集喔\n\n05:25.521 --> 05:45.375\n我們已經做過幕僚作業了現在是要正式會議你們不是民進黨最尊重大法官嗎怎麼大法官做決議都好像慢半拍這尊重法律所以大概已經在尊重那請問一下部長有沒有算過各縣市甚至全國如果把代理教師的職前年資納入計算的話要增加多少支出有計算過嗎\n\n05:48.650 --> 06:01.801\n你知道為什麼會增加支出嗎?因為你如果把之前年資納入計算的話有時候他累積到一定的年限他要跳級嘛所以他薪酬會變高嘛那所以要增加支出嘛你有算過總共需要多少錢嗎?有算過嗎?\n\n06:03.507 --> 06:23.722\n根據委員報告因為它會涉及到每一年老師禁用就是剛才那個委員所提的我都知道這些我都知道囉對沒錯所以這個要實際上我問你有沒有計算過因為是八月份的事情當年度禁用的大概四到六億間四到六億間四億到六億間對不對確定齁我跟你講齁新北市\n\n06:30.626 --> 06:47.624\n如果要把帶給教師的值錢年資紀錄的話一年要兩億元啊一年要兩億啊我不知道你這四到六億是金錢因為我沒有去全國調查但西北市是兩億那這個其實對地方財政是一個很也是一個很大的負擔嘛那現在民進黨也不願意修財化法嘛\n\n06:48.854 --> 07:12.141\n所以我是希望教育部第一個啦你可以考慮啦這筆預算應該是中央來編列啦去補助地方因為上一次代理教師本來是薪水是算10個月後來算到一年的時候中央只有補助第一年的一半所以後來每一年地方政府都要自己去自籌這個財源其實真的對於地方政府的財源也是造成負擔\n\n07:13.188 --> 07:22.690\n那所以這個部分教育部是可以補助地方嗎?我剛剛講譬如說新北市2億剛剛署長講說全國是4到6億嘛那教育部有考慮要補助嗎?\n\n07:24.329 --> 07:50.980\n跟我們報告確實這個教師的顏額是由地方來控管不是吧你那個時候你代理教師的你說從薪資從10個月到12個月當時教育部就有補助只是我們當然覺得不夠你只有補助第一年的一半而已現在就問你說之前年資紀錄這全國4到6億當然希望教育部可以編列預算來補助地方政府因為財務法你也不讓他過\n\n07:52.065 --> 08:12.808\n委員剛剛所提的大禮老師全年年資那個第一年因為之前年資啊還沒剛剛您提到的那個第一次有補全月的全月全年的那個是因為第一年還沒編所以我們有補第二年以後都那一般性補助接著回到這個案子這個案子因為是有緣額如果非屬他們緣額是屬於計劃性的我們歷來都會有分工\n\n08:13.748 --> 08:19.573\n原額本來就有正式原額的經費本來就可以支援給代理老師的所有費用至於計劃性教育部補助的部分我們會來處理\n\n08:30.748 --> 08:59.916\n沒有沒有你就針對我的問題回答不要繞圈圈啦所以剛剛跟委員報告的是增加了4到6億這教育部有沒有要編預算就是補助地方政府還是說叫地方政府自籌裁員就這麼簡單的問題不要繞圈圈所以簡單的回答就是說屬於他的原額的部分他自己有經費非屬他原額屬於外加計劃性由中央補助的部分你會計劃性的你會給然後再一般的但問題是你4到6億裡面多少是計劃性原額多少是一般性原額這個是會不會跟\n\n09:00.316 --> 09:01.717\n市長,因為教育部是最高的教育單位\n\n09:25.424 --> 09:45.161\n那這部分我覺得你對老師好一點雖然是地方政府負責的但你對老師好一點我覺得對全國教育都有幫助啦好不好不要分那麼清楚啦你演繹一下你演繹一下然後再來跟那個我剛剛那個問題再請教一下所以什麼時候代理老師可以領導可以把他的職前年資納入基金最快什麼時候\n\n09:45.984 --> 10:11.613\n按照憲法法庭的要求就是114學年114學年對,它是一年嘛對,114,最快114學年就可以納入最慢最慢,那最快勒?這個跟地方政府在一起在研究但是最慢一定在憲法法庭要求的一年內一定要處理完齁,那是憲法法庭嘛我如果你說你站在教育機關你的態度嘛不要跟我繞圈圈啦一個目標啦,最快多少?\n\n10:12.753 --> 10:25.517\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學�\n\n10:38.520 --> 11:03.396\n最快這個可能還要跟地方政府一起會商尊重他們尊重地方政府你沒有目標就對了最慢一定在114年我當然知道啊不然你就違憲了嘛我先講是最快啦謝謝部長再請教一下齁那個我來問一個體育的問題喔我們有一個足球的六年的計畫嘛當初六年計畫編列多少43億嘛是不是\n\n11:05.484 --> 11:28.539\n是。是嗎?是。43億。然後那個時候,這個足球練習計畫有定一個目標啦。就是希望說我們的世界排名可以到100名以內。對吧?市長知道這是嗎?市長知道這是嗎?是。可是問題是,到目前為止,這六年計畫過去之後,我們看到2024年的10月,我們FIFA的男子足球世界排名掉到168名。\n\n11:31.366 --> 11:44.019\n並沒有達到當時的目標那你知道說這個原因是什麼?署長知道嗎?報告委員那這個並不是在我任內去執行但是我大概知道是誰在任內不管嘛你先去署長嘛\n\n11:46.209 --> 12:14.342\n在執行的過程這個是男子的計畫不是女子足球的計畫這男子的計畫的部分他們在執行的過程其實沒有花到私籍大概20億左右對這是另外一個問題那個是另外一個問題我講的是說本來當初設定的目標是要到100名以內那本來應該是10年的計畫可是他把它縮了6年所以在整個執行狀況其實不是那麼的好你先不要跟我講執行狀況我現在講是排名落後是事實嘛對不對對所以你的意思是排名落後原因是因為他的預算執行不利是不是\n\n12:14.602 --> 12:39.561\n不是,是因為整個計劃理論上當時撰寫的時候應該是10年的計劃所以是計劃寫錯?我們是當時把它壓縮了6年就要執行其實這個部分我們目前正在內部在檢查你就是說因為就是我講的嘛,排名沒有辦法往前的原因是因為計劃無法執行嘛但是這個計劃對我們的基層是有幫助的所以我們基層現在人口是非常的增加多的當然都有幫助只是你幫助了多少而已\n\n12:40.602 --> 12:55.375\n當然都有幫助啦你錢花下去多少都有幫助但是你沒有達到你當初的期望嘛所以6年的期望其實我們從6年那既然你講到這個經費執行的狀況我們可以看一下它執行率確實是很低啦按照你講的因為執行率只有到47.22嘛是\n\n12:57.396 --> 13:09.152\n有的執行率,像運發基金所編列出來的健全國家隊選訓賽的輔獎執行率只有36.49完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41為什麼完善硬體設施執行率這麼差?\n\n13:13.786 --> 13:30.613\n包委員,這個計畫它是從各個不同的預算科目去把它聚集成一個計畫,並不是一個特別預算,所以它的整個的執行率是拆開來看,但整體來講是47%對,我知道,我現在就去問說為什麼完善,你聽我問好不好,組長,不用急著搶話啦,我們可以問問題嗎?\n\n13:38.279 --> 14:05.569\n請問一下為什麼完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41是沒有人要提出計劃申請嗎?還是怎麼樣?是的那你當初訂這樣的一個計劃性的補助用意有達到嗎?沒有達到沒有達到嘛所以這也是財化法重要嘛就是中央收一堆錢訂了一個計劃性補助地方根本都沒來申請嘛你不如把錢給地方地方可以按照自己的優先順序來排自己要做的事情嘛那你現在怎麼去改善呢?\n\n14:10.581 --> 14:17.344\n全國在整個土地分區以及土地的部分我們在請鑽納學來做同行的研討及主動來規劃目前我們還在研擬當中因為是去年才剛結案而已\n\n14:27.700 --> 14:40.191\n對去年結案趙同學講你要延續啊我們現在還在進行因為這個部分還需要進一步所以沒有任何的改善的計畫目前我們是將整個通盤的主力先檢討完因為我們剛剛有看到問題我沒有看到問題嘛我沒有看到問題嘛資訊不立嘛我沒有看到問題排名往後嘛請問怎麼改善\n\n14:47.577 --> 15:09.975\n我先把硬體的土地先找到那個署長是不是後續在原汁委員說明好嗎不是啦你講的都很空洞啊你有講嗎你有講跟沒講一樣你怎麼改善嘛你先講嘛我先從設施土地部分先解決所以六年遇到什麼問題要解決就是我們的整個土地我們的場地是不足的後續再到您辦公室說明好嗎你確定他會來嗎\n\n15:11.851 --> 15:31.830\n屬長你可以過去出庭吧那官員都這麼傲慢都傲慢成這個樣子問他問題一直插話然後不讓人家問然後繞圈圈都傲慢成這樣他已經答應會到你辦公室什麼時候不是你今天你這個問題你說你要改善但是講不出個所以然出來我剛剛已經回答你就說什麼土地問題解決這個問題就解決了嗎\n\n15:34.793 --> 15:34.933\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.602,"end":10.063,"text":"麻煩教育部長謝謝有請鄭部長"},{"start":21.406,"end":40.425,"text":"部長好,剛剛有看到台大校長有呼籲說我們要增加高教經費本席也是非常支持那看到部長講說明年會高教增加59億那高教生根增加20億那我是建議啦看看那個有關於大學社會責任實踐計畫能不能也增加預算"},{"start":41.606,"end":65.703,"text":"我覺得這樣的一個計畫其實對於減少學用落差是很有幫助的實際上配合高齡社會的來臨有些學校如果跟社區結合辦一些活躍老化的計畫其實不僅是可以讓學生學以致用更可以讓我們社區得到學校的協助因為畢竟大學的主要存在任務除了教學研究之外還有社區服務嘛那部長願意朝這個方向嗎"},{"start":66.823,"end":87.385,"text":"教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部主管117年度教育部"},{"start":88.427,"end":88.907,"text":"我覺得農業部怎麼會講這樣的話"},{"start":119.308,"end":147.631,"text":"實際上是補救路不夠嘛他當初發包的時候來投標廠商能夠供給的量就只有六成所以我們新北市現在還少大概六十萬瓶那你當務之急你應該要補足這個量啊怎麼會對外說我就不勉強學校喝了還有這樣子喔那當初你農業部教育部就不要宣傳班班有鮮奶嘛我已經講過了啊不要好像口號喊得很高實際上做不到你就喊說兩班喝一瓶鮮奶就好了嘛"},{"start":149.517,"end":166.058,"text":"因為部長你願意不是你去跟我又不溝通一下因為現在很多家長在等啊想說不是想說一個學期有44瓶一個禮拜兩瓶嗎然後現在因為沒量所以說我就不勉強你們喝了不是不勉強人家喝是不是人家喝不到啊部長你有瞭解這個狀況嗎"},{"start":168.966,"end":196.898,"text":"跟委員報告確實這個農業部在這個月底他會有一個你跟農業部講說請他趕快再找廠商來投標是你不是說因為不夠了講這種話都欺騙大家家長都生氣了我想應該農業部他就是農業部就這樣講的嘛農業部不會欺騙但是就是欺騙啦這一個廠商在整個供給我跟你講慢慢有先男一團亂農業部當初這樣隨便喊出來"},{"start":198.065,"end":213.801,"text":"教育部跟教育單位在那邊收爛攤子我還有聽說有老師叫家長帶一個麻布袋來說一次把44瓶領回家還有看到那包酒奶拿回家不是小朋友在喝是家長在喝都有"},{"start":214.722,"end":226.952,"text":"但是你當初喊這個口號你就要達成你不能說對不起我做不到我就不勉強你得了便宜還賣乖喔做不到還把事情把責任推給家長喔都是不好意思都是我勉強你們喝我現在不勉強你了這是什麼態度啊部長"},{"start":231.656,"end":240.061,"text":"政策是良善希望能夠對付的能不能跟農業部長溝通一下可不可以你去找他講叫他不要再隨便講這種話家長都生氣了第三個議題"},{"start":249.907,"end":273.394,"text":"那個有關於代理老師職前研資的計算因為大法官已經說違憲了嘛憲法法庭已經代理老師已經勝訴了但是這個事情已經隔了很久了已經非常久了那有很多代理老師在問我啊說說那現在進度怎麼樣實際上縣市政府還是並沒有把他的職前研資納入計算啊現在教育部的進度如何"},{"start":276.379,"end":298.057,"text":"確實這個有關代理老師的這一些年資的計算我們現在地方政府也正在激起的這個不是地方政府啦教育部你現在怎麼做嘛我想這裡邊有許多的這個老師的一個聘用是來自於地方的沒有沒有沒有你現在大法官是說請教育部在一年內修法嘛對吧你有看他的那個訴訟的主文嗎有嗎"},{"start":299.738,"end":325.001,"text":"修法是因為包含緣和是在地方。第二個就是說當然泰里老師是地方單位在沒錯啊問題是你是中央主管機關啊你要有個態度你要找大家來溝通啊你現在進度怎麼樣嗎是不是能夠詳細請這個彭署長是謝謝委員就如您最後一句話我們很快會召集地方政府在12月中在11月底12月中之間一定會召集11月底12月中會召集所以還沒召集喔"},{"start":325.521,"end":345.375,"text":"我們已經做過幕僚作業了現在是要正式會議你們不是民進黨最尊重大法官嗎怎麼大法官做決議都好像慢半拍這尊重法律所以大概已經在尊重那請問一下部長有沒有算過各縣市甚至全國如果把代理教師的職前年資納入計算的話要增加多少支出有計算過嗎"},{"start":348.65,"end":361.801,"text":"你知道為什麼會增加支出嗎?因為你如果把之前年資納入計算的話有時候他累積到一定的年限他要跳級嘛所以他薪酬會變高嘛那所以要增加支出嘛你有算過總共需要多少錢嗎?有算過嗎?"},{"start":363.507,"end":383.722,"text":"根據委員報告因為它會涉及到每一年老師禁用就是剛才那個委員所提的我都知道這些我都知道囉對沒錯所以這個要實際上我問你有沒有計算過因為是八月份的事情當年度禁用的大概四到六億間四到六億間四億到六億間對不對確定齁我跟你講齁新北市"},{"start":390.626,"end":407.624,"text":"如果要把帶給教師的值錢年資紀錄的話一年要兩億元啊一年要兩億啊我不知道你這四到六億是金錢因為我沒有去全國調查但西北市是兩億那這個其實對地方財政是一個很也是一個很大的負擔嘛那現在民進黨也不願意修財化法嘛"},{"start":408.854,"end":432.141,"text":"所以我是希望教育部第一個啦你可以考慮啦這筆預算應該是中央來編列啦去補助地方因為上一次代理教師本來是薪水是算10個月後來算到一年的時候中央只有補助第一年的一半所以後來每一年地方政府都要自己去自籌這個財源其實真的對於地方政府的財源也是造成負擔"},{"start":433.188,"end":442.69,"text":"那所以這個部分教育部是可以補助地方嗎?我剛剛講譬如說新北市2億剛剛署長講說全國是4到6億嘛那教育部有考慮要補助嗎?"},{"start":444.329,"end":470.98,"text":"跟我們報告確實這個教師的顏額是由地方來控管不是吧你那個時候你代理教師的你說從薪資從10個月到12個月當時教育部就有補助只是我們當然覺得不夠你只有補助第一年的一半而已現在就問你說之前年資紀錄這全國4到6億當然希望教育部可以編列預算來補助地方政府因為財務法你也不讓他過"},{"start":472.065,"end":492.808,"text":"委員剛剛所提的大禮老師全年年資那個第一年因為之前年資啊還沒剛剛您提到的那個第一次有補全月的全月全年的那個是因為第一年還沒編所以我們有補第二年以後都那一般性補助接著回到這個案子這個案子因為是有緣額如果非屬他們緣額是屬於計劃性的我們歷來都會有分工"},{"start":493.748,"end":499.573,"text":"原額本來就有正式原額的經費本來就可以支援給代理老師的所有費用至於計劃性教育部補助的部分我們會來處理"},{"start":510.748,"end":539.916,"text":"沒有沒有你就針對我的問題回答不要繞圈圈啦所以剛剛跟委員報告的是增加了4到6億這教育部有沒有要編預算就是補助地方政府還是說叫地方政府自籌裁員就這麼簡單的問題不要繞圈圈所以簡單的回答就是說屬於他的原額的部分他自己有經費非屬他原額屬於外加計劃性由中央補助的部分你會計劃性的你會給然後再一般的但問題是你4到6億裡面多少是計劃性原額多少是一般性原額這個是會不會跟"},{"start":540.316,"end":541.717,"text":"市長,因為教育部是最高的教育單位"},{"start":565.424,"end":585.161,"text":"那這部分我覺得你對老師好一點雖然是地方政府負責的但你對老師好一點我覺得對全國教育都有幫助啦好不好不要分那麼清楚啦你演繹一下你演繹一下然後再來跟那個我剛剛那個問題再請教一下所以什麼時候代理老師可以領導可以把他的職前年資納入基金最快什麼時候"},{"start":585.984,"end":611.613,"text":"按照憲法法庭的要求就是114學年114學年對,它是一年嘛對,114,最快114學年就可以納入最慢最慢,那最快勒?這個跟地方政府在一起在研究但是最慢一定在憲法法庭要求的一年內一定要處理完齁,那是憲法法庭嘛我如果你說你站在教育機關你的態度嘛不要跟我繞圈圈啦一個目標啦,最快多少?"},{"start":612.753,"end":625.517,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學�"},{"start":638.52,"end":663.396,"text":"最快這個可能還要跟地方政府一起會商尊重他們尊重地方政府你沒有目標就對了最慢一定在114年我當然知道啊不然你就違憲了嘛我先講是最快啦謝謝部長再請教一下齁那個我來問一個體育的問題喔我們有一個足球的六年的計畫嘛當初六年計畫編列多少43億嘛是不是"},{"start":665.484,"end":688.539,"text":"是。是嗎?是。43億。然後那個時候,這個足球練習計畫有定一個目標啦。就是希望說我們的世界排名可以到100名以內。對吧?市長知道這是嗎?市長知道這是嗎?是。可是問題是,到目前為止,這六年計畫過去之後,我們看到2024年的10月,我們FIFA的男子足球世界排名掉到168名。"},{"start":691.366,"end":704.019,"text":"並沒有達到當時的目標那你知道說這個原因是什麼?署長知道嗎?報告委員那這個並不是在我任內去執行但是我大概知道是誰在任內不管嘛你先去署長嘛"},{"start":706.209,"end":734.342,"text":"在執行的過程這個是男子的計畫不是女子足球的計畫這男子的計畫的部分他們在執行的過程其實沒有花到私籍大概20億左右對這是另外一個問題那個是另外一個問題我講的是說本來當初設定的目標是要到100名以內那本來應該是10年的計畫可是他把它縮了6年所以在整個執行狀況其實不是那麼的好你先不要跟我講執行狀況我現在講是排名落後是事實嘛對不對對所以你的意思是排名落後原因是因為他的預算執行不利是不是"},{"start":734.602,"end":759.561,"text":"不是,是因為整個計劃理論上當時撰寫的時候應該是10年的計劃所以是計劃寫錯?我們是當時把它壓縮了6年就要執行其實這個部分我們目前正在內部在檢查你就是說因為就是我講的嘛,排名沒有辦法往前的原因是因為計劃無法執行嘛但是這個計劃對我們的基層是有幫助的所以我們基層現在人口是非常的增加多的當然都有幫助只是你幫助了多少而已"},{"start":760.602,"end":775.375,"text":"當然都有幫助啦你錢花下去多少都有幫助但是你沒有達到你當初的期望嘛所以6年的期望其實我們從6年那既然你講到這個經費執行的狀況我們可以看一下它執行率確實是很低啦按照你講的因為執行率只有到47.22嘛是"},{"start":777.396,"end":789.152,"text":"有的執行率,像運發基金所編列出來的健全國家隊選訓賽的輔獎執行率只有36.49完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41為什麼完善硬體設施執行率這麼差?"},{"start":793.786,"end":810.613,"text":"包委員,這個計畫它是從各個不同的預算科目去把它聚集成一個計畫,並不是一個特別預算,所以它的整個的執行率是拆開來看,但整體來講是47%對,我知道,我現在就去問說為什麼完善,你聽我問好不好,組長,不用急著搶話啦,我們可以問問題嗎?"},{"start":818.279,"end":845.569,"text":"請問一下為什麼完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41是沒有人要提出計劃申請嗎?還是怎麼樣?是的那你當初訂這樣的一個計劃性的補助用意有達到嗎?沒有達到沒有達到嘛所以這也是財化法重要嘛就是中央收一堆錢訂了一個計劃性補助地方根本都沒來申請嘛你不如把錢給地方地方可以按照自己的優先順序來排自己要做的事情嘛那你現在怎麼去改善呢?"},{"start":850.581,"end":857.344,"text":"全國在整個土地分區以及土地的部分我們在請鑽納學來做同行的研討及主動來規劃目前我們還在研擬當中因為是去年才剛結案而已"},{"start":867.7,"end":880.191,"text":"對 去年結案 趙同學講你要延續啊我們現在還在進行 因為這個部分還需要進一步所以沒有任何的改善的計畫目前我們是將整個通盤的主力先檢討完因為我們剛剛有看到問題我沒有看到問題嘛 我沒有看到問題嘛 資訊不立嘛我沒有看到問題排名往後嘛請問怎麼改善"},{"start":887.577,"end":909.975,"text":"我先把硬體的土地先找到那個署長是不是後續在原汁委員說明好嗎不是啦你講的都很空洞啊你有講嗎你有講跟沒講一樣你怎麼改善嘛你先講嘛我先從設施土地部分先解決所以六年遇到什麼問題要解決就是我們的整個土地我們的場地是不足的後續再到您辦公室說明好嗎你確定他會來嗎"},{"start":911.851,"end":931.83,"text":"屬長你可以過去出庭吧那官員都這麼傲慢都傲慢成這個樣子問他問題一直插話然後不讓人家問然後繞圈圈都傲慢成這樣他已經答應會到你辦公室什麼時候不是你今天你這個問題你說你要改善但是講不出個所以然出來我剛剛已經回答你就說什麼土地問題解決這個問題就解決了嗎"},{"start":934.793,"end":934.933,"text":"主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1113,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（14時）麻煩請教育部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。剛剛有看到臺大校長呼籲希望我們要增加高教經費，本席也是非常支持，有看到部長說明年高教會增加59億，高教深耕增加20億。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：我是建議有關於大學社會責任實踐計畫能不能也增加預算，因為我覺得這樣的計畫對於減少學用落差其實是很有幫助的，實際上配合高齡社會的來臨，有些學校如果跟社區結合，辦一些活躍老化計畫，其實不僅可以讓學生學以致用，更可以讓我們社區得到學校的協助，因為畢竟大學的主要存在任務除了教學研究之外，還有社區服務嘛，部長願意朝這個方向嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，我想教學實踐也好，或者USR，我們都有增加經費。"],["葉委員元之：會增加嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：因為它的計畫這一期是到明年為止，是不是？"],["楊司長玉惠：USR是114年到117年。"],["葉委員元之：114年到117年？"],["楊司長玉惠：對。"],["葉委員元之：114年到117年編多少？我說USR喔，我不是說整個高教深耕，我是說USR，USR編多少？"],["楊司長玉惠：12億。"],["鄭部長英耀：12億，明年12億。"],["葉委員元之：明年12億，未來會逐年增加嗎？"],["楊司長玉惠：是，我們儘量來爭取。"],["葉委員元之：有考慮逐年增加嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想那是有價值的，我們會努力來增加經費。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。部長，再跟你請教一下，之前有關心過班班喝鮮奶的議題，現在農業部最新的講法是說，如果學校沒有要喝就不勉強了，我覺得農業部怎麼會講這樣的話？實際上是保久乳不夠嘛，當初發包的時候，來投標的廠商能夠供給的量就只有六成，所以我們新北市現在還少大概60萬瓶，你當務之急應該要補足這個量啊，怎麼會對外說就不勉強學校喝了，還有這樣子的喔，那當初農業部、教育部就不要宣傳班班有鮮奶嘛，我已經講過了啊，不要好像口號喊得很高，實際上做不到，你就喊兩班喝一瓶鮮奶就好了嘛！部長，你去跟農業部溝通一下，因為現在很多家長在等啦，不是說1個學期有44瓶，1個禮拜2瓶嗎，現在因為沒量，所以就說不勉強你們喝了，不是不勉強人家喝，是人家喝不到啊，部長你有了解這個狀況嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實農業部在這個月底會有一個……"],["葉委員元之：你跟農業部說，請他趕快再找廠商來投標！"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：不是說因為不夠了，講這種話是欺騙大家，家長都生氣了！"],["鄭部長英耀：我想應該農業部……"],["葉委員元之：農業部就是這樣講的嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：農業部不會欺騙，但是可能……"],["葉委員元之：就是欺騙啦！"],["鄭部長英耀：可能這一個廠商在整個供給量……"],["葉委員元之：我跟你講，班班有鮮奶真的一團亂，農業部當初這樣隨便喊出來，就是教育部跟教育單位在那邊收爛攤子嘛！現在我還聽說有老師叫家長帶個麻布袋來，一次把44瓶領回家啦，還有看到保久乳拿回家不是小朋友在喝，是家長在喝，都有啦，但是你當初喊這個口號就要達成，你不能說：對不起，我做不到，我就不勉強你。得了便宜還賣乖喔！做不到還把責任推給家長，不好意思喔，都是我勉強你們喝，我現在不勉強你了。這什麼態度啊？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：部長，這個東西……"],["鄭部長英耀：政策是良善，希望能夠讓我們的……"],["葉委員元之：政策良善但你要做到啦，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：但是政策實際……"],["葉委員元之：你能不能跟農業部長溝通一下，可不可以？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我會後再來……"],["葉委員元之：你去找他講，叫他不要再隨便講這種話，家長都生氣了，好不好？","第三個議題是有關於代理老師職前年資的計算，因為大法官已經說違憲了嘛，憲法法庭已經判代理老師勝訴了，但是這個事情已經隔了很久，已經非常久了，有很多代理老師問我現在的進度怎麼樣，實際上縣市政府還是沒有把他的職前年資納入計算啊，現在教育部的進度如何？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實，有關代理老師的年資計算，現在地方政府也正在積極的討論……"],["葉委員元之：不是地方政府啦，教育部現在要怎麼做啦？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想這裡面有許多老師的聘用是來自於地方……"],["葉委員元之：沒有、沒有，現在大法官是說請教育部在一年內修法嘛，對吧？你有看那個訴訟的主文嗎？有嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：修法是一定，因為……"],["葉委員元之：現在進度如何？第二個就是說，當然代理老師是地方單位沒錯，問題是你是中央主管機關啊，你要有一個態度，你要找大家來溝通啊，現在進度怎麼樣嘛？"],["鄭部長英耀：詳細情形是不是能夠請彭署長說明？"],["葉委員元之：是。"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員，就如您最後一句話，我們很快會召集地方政府……"],["葉委員元之：很快是什麼……"],["彭署長富源：在11月底到12月中之間一定會召集。"],["葉委員元之：11月底到12月中會召集，所以還沒召集喔？"],["彭署長富源：我們已經做過幕僚作業了，現在是要正式會議。"],["葉委員元之：你們民進黨不是最尊重大法官嗎？怎麼對大法官作的決議都好像慢半拍！"],["彭署長富源：沒有，這尊重法律，所以大概已經在進行當中。"],["葉委員元之：好，請問一下部長，有沒有算過各縣市，甚至全國，如果把代理教師的職前年資納入計算的話，要增加多少支出，有計算過嗎？"],["彭署長富源：因為是地方政府……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：你知道為什麼會增加支出嗎？因為你如果把職前年資納入計算的話，有時候年資累積到一定的年限就會跳級嘛，他的薪水會變高，所以要增加支出嘛，你有算過總共需要多少錢嗎？有算過嗎？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，因為這涉及到每一年老師的進用，就是剛才委員你所提到的他實際的年資……"],["葉委員元之：我都知道，這些我都知道……"],["彭署長富源：沒錯，所以這個要實際……"],["葉委員元之：我問你有沒有計算過，因為是8月份的事情……"],["彭署長富源：對，當年度進用的大概4億到6億間……"],["葉委員元之：多少？"],["彭署長富源：4億到6億間，因為當年度實際……"],["葉委員元之：4億到6億間，對不對？"],["彭署長富源：對。"],["葉委員元之：確定？"],["彭署長富源：是。"],["葉委員元之：我跟你講，新北市如果要把代理教師的職前年資計入的話，一年要2億元啦，我不知道你這4億到6億的金額怎麼算的，因為我沒有去做全國調查，但新北市是2億，這個其實對地方財政是一個很大的負擔，現在民進黨也不願意修財劃法，所以我是希望教育部可以考慮這筆預算應該由中央來編列去補助地方，因為上一次代理教師本來的薪水是算10個月，後來算到1年的時候，中央只有補助第一年的一半，導致後來每一年地方政府都要自己去自籌這個財源，其實真的對於地方政府的財源也是造成負擔，所以這個部分，教育部可以補助地方嗎？我剛剛講的，譬如新北市2億，剛剛署長講說全國是4億到6億嘛，教育部有考慮要補助嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實教師的員額是由地方來控管，我們在地方……"],["葉委員元之：不是嘛，那個時候代理教師的薪資從10個月到12個月，當時教育部就有補助嘛，只是我們覺得不夠，你只有補助第一年的一半而已嘛，現在就是問你，職前年資計入後，全國這4億到6億，我們當然希望教育部可以編列預算來補助地方政府，因為財劃法你也不讓它過啊。"],["彭署長富源：委員剛剛所提代理老師全年年資的那個部分，第一年因為地方……"],["葉委員元之：職前年資啦！"],["彭署長富源：還沒，剛剛您提到的那個……"],["葉委員元之：全年年資？"],["彭署長富源：第一次有補全月全年的那個，是因為第一年還沒編，所以我們有補，第二年以後就納入一般性補助。接著回到這個案子，這個案子因為是有員額，如果非屬他們的員額，是屬於計畫性的，我們歷來都會有分工……"],["葉委員元之：分工？什麼叫分工？"],["彭署長富源：會有分工，員額……"],["葉委員元之：署長，講話精準一點，不要講完都聽不懂！"],["彭署長富源：是，所謂分工就是，員額本來就有正式員額的經費，一個正式員額經費本來就可以支用給那個代理老師的所有費用，至於屬於計畫性、教育部補助的部分，我們會來處理。"],["葉委員元之：不是、不是，你就針對我的問題回答，不要繞圈圈啦！"],["彭署長富源：所以剛剛跟委員報告的……"],["葉委員元之：我講的是增加的4億到6億，教育部有沒有要編預算來補助地方政府？還是叫地方政府自籌財源？就這麼簡單的問題，不要繞圈圈。"],["彭署長富源：所以簡單的回答就是說，屬於他的員額部分，他自己有經費；非屬他的員額，屬於外加計畫性由中央補助的部分，我們會來協助。"],["葉委員元之：計畫性的你會給，但是一般的……問題你4億到6億裡面有多少是計畫性員額、多少是一般性員額？"],["彭署長富源：這個會後再跟委員做確切的說明。"],["葉委員元之：不是，我是覺得你在第一年起碼要補助人家啦，你研議一下啦，好不好？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，因為當時那個12個月的部分，是當年度決定的，因此有半年的經費他們沒有，所以來協助，這一個事情在憲法法庭確定之後馬上就應該要給了……"],["葉委員元之：好啦……"],["彭署長富源：所以我們在編114年度的時候，地方政府已經有準備了。"],["葉委員元之：署長，因為教育部是最高的教育單位啦，這個部分雖然是地方政府負責的，但是你對老師好一點，我覺得對全國的教育都有幫助啦，不要分那麼清楚啦，你研議一下！"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：你研議一下。我剛剛那個問題再請教一下，所以什麼時候代理老師可以把他的職前年資納入計算？最快什麼時候？"],["彭署長富源：按照憲法法庭的要求就是114學年。"],["葉委員元之：114學年？"],["彭署長富源：對，就一年嘛。"],["葉委員元之：最快114學年就可以納入？"],["彭署長富源：最慢。"],["葉委員元之：最慢，那最快呢？"],["彭署長富源：這個要跟地方政府再一起研究，但是最慢一定在憲法法庭要求的一年內一定要處理完。"],["葉委員元之：那是憲法法庭嘛，我是問你教育機關的態度嘛，不要給我繞圈圈啦，你的目標最快多久？人家現在都在等了嘛！"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，剛剛會涉及到有一些還要會商的因素……"],["葉委員元之：我知道會商，但是我今天如果沒有問的話，我們都不知道你有找地方來會商啊！"],["彭署長富源：所以12月中以前會商完……"],["葉委員元之：8月份的時候大法官的判決出來了，你到11月底才要去找人家，那你就慢慢拖就好了嘛！"],["彭署長富源：已經諮詢過了，現在就是正式的會議。"],["葉委員元之：所以什麼時候？"],["彭署長富源：12月中以前會有一些方案……"],["葉委員元之：我說最快，好累喔！最快什麼時候？"],["彭署長富源：最快可能還要跟地方政府一起會商，尊重他們。"],["葉委員元之：尊重地方政府，你沒有目標就對了？"],["彭署長富源：最慢一定在114年……"],["葉委員元之：我當然知道啊，不然，你就違憲了嘛，我現在講的是最快，謝謝。","部長，再請教一下，我要問一個體育的問題，我們有一個足球六年計畫，當初六年計畫編列多少？43億是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：那個時候這個足球六年計畫有訂一個目標，就是希望我們的世界排名可以到100名以內，部長知道這事嗎？署長知道這事嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：可是問題是到目前為止，這六年計畫過去之後，我們看到2024年10月我們的FIFA男子足球世界排名掉到168名，並沒有達到當時的目標，我不知道這個原因是什麼，署長知道嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這個並不是在我任內去執行，但是我大概知道……"],["葉委員元之：是誰的任內不管嘛，你現在是署長嘛。"],["鄭署長世忠：在執行的過程中，這是男子足球的計畫，不是女子足球的計畫，這男子足球計畫的部分，他們在執行的過程中其實沒有花到四十幾億，大概在二十億左右。"],["葉委員元之：對，這是另外一個問題，我講的是，本來當初設定的目標是要到100名以內……"],["鄭署長世忠：這本來應該是十年的計畫，可是把它縮短為六年，所以整個執行狀況其實不是那麼的好。"],["葉委員元之：你先不要跟我講執行狀況，我現在講排名落後是事實，對不對？"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["葉委員元之：你的意思是排名落後的原因是因為預算執行不力，是不是？"],["鄭署長世忠：不是，是因為整個計畫當時撰寫的時候理論上應該是十年計畫。"],["葉委員元之：所以是計畫寫錯？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們當時把它壓縮為六年就要執行，其實這個部分，我們內部目前正在檢討，要不要重新再弄一個……"],["葉委員元之：就是我講的排名沒有辦法往前的原因是因為計畫無法執行。"],["鄭署長世忠：但是這個計畫對基層是有幫助的，所以我們基層……"],["葉委員元之：當然都有幫助，只是你幫助多少而已，當然都有幫助啦，你錢花下去，多少都有幫助，但是你有沒有達到你當初的期望嘛。"],["鄭署長世忠：所以六年的計畫，其實我們從之前開始……"],["葉委員元之：那好，既然你講到經費執行的狀況，我們可以看一下它執行率確實是很低，按照你講的，執行率只有到47.22%。"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["葉委員元之：然後有的執行率像運發基金所編列的健全國家隊選訓賽的輔獎什麼的，執行率只有36.49%，完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41%，為什麼完善硬體設施執行率這麼差？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這個計畫是從各個不同的預算科目去把它聚集成一個計畫，並不是一個特別預算，所以它的整個執行率是拆開來看，但整體來講是47%。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，我現在問……"],["鄭署長世忠：但場館的部分還牽涉到土地……"],["葉委員元之：我現在就問為什麼完善硬體設施執行率只有23.41%，是沒有人要提出計畫申請嗎？還是怎樣？"],["鄭署長世忠：是的。"],["葉委員元之：那你當初訂這樣一個計畫性的補助用意有達到嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：沒有達到。"],["葉委員元之：沒有達到嘛，所以這也是財劃法重要的原因之一，就是中央收一堆錢，訂了一個計畫性補助，地方根本都沒來申請嘛……"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，是土地的問題。"],["葉委員元之：你不如把錢給地方，地方可以按照自己的優先順序來安排自己要做的事情。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，主要是土地的問題。"],["葉委員元之：那你現在怎麼去改善呢？你剛剛推給前朝，那現在換你了，你怎麼改善？"],["鄭署長世忠：全國在整個土地分區以及土地的部分，我們再請專家學者來做通盤檢討，並主動規劃……"],["葉委員元之：所以接下來的足球計畫是怎麼訂定？幾年？"],["鄭署長世忠：目前我們還在研擬當中。"],["葉委員元之：還在研擬？"],["鄭署長世忠：當然，因為去年才剛結案而已。"],["葉委員元之：去年結案，正常來講你要延續啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：我們現在還在結案，因為這個部分還需要進一步討論。"],["葉委員元之：所以沒有任何的改善計畫？"],["鄭署長世忠：目前我們是將整個土地通盤檢討完……"],["葉委員元之：因為我們剛剛有看到問題。"],["鄭署長世忠：因為我們土地要整個通盤檢討完，才有辦法另起一個計畫。"],["葉委員元之：我們有看到問題，執行不力嘛！我們也有看到問題，排名往後嘛！請問怎麼改善？"],["鄭署長世忠：我先把硬體的土地先找到，才有辦法去……"],["主席：署長，是不是會後跟葉元之委員說明？"],["葉委員元之：署長，你講的都很空洞啊！不是啦，你講的都很空洞，你有講嗎？你有講跟沒講一樣，你怎麼改善嘛？你現在講。"],["鄭署長世忠：我先從設施、土地部分解決。"],["葉委員元之：所以六年計畫遇到什麼問題要解決？"],["鄭署長世忠：就是我們的場地是不足的。"],["主席：葉元之委員，後續再到您辦公室說明好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：你確定他會來嗎？"],["主席：署長，你可以過去說明吧？"],["葉委員元之：官員那麼傲慢！傲慢成這樣子！問他問題一直插話，不讓人家問，然後繞圈圈，傲慢成這樣！"],["主席：他已經答應會到你辦公室。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候？對於今天這些問題，你說要改善，但是講不出個所以然來！"],["鄭署長世忠：我剛剛已經回答是因為……"],["葉委員元之：你就說什麼土地，土地問題解決，這個問題就解決了嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：這是第一個先解決的。"],["主席：時間已經超過太多了，署長後續到葉元之委員辦公室說明好嗎？他已經答應了！"],["葉委員元之：他答應，他會做到嗎？"],["主席：不做到的話，我們下次再處理他好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：你怎麼處理他？"],["主席：下次您處理他好了。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["主席：署長、部長請回。謝謝葉元之委員的質詢。","下一位蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員。","請陳俊宇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-8","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","萬美玲","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","張雅琳","吳沛憶","黃健豪","吳思瑤","林德福","王育敏","陳昭姿","涂權吉","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","羅智強","林月琴","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葉元之","陳俊宇","翁曉玲","柯志恩","邱志偉","何欣純"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114年度教育部主管\n47 所國立大學校院校務基金、國立臺灣大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基\n金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、教育部所屬機構作業基金、國立高級中等學校校務基\n金、學產基金、運動發展基金、私立高級中等以上學校退場基金；三、審查114年度行政法人國\n家運動訓練中心預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家運動科學中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00006"}}}