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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 196.65, \"end\": 196.791, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 196.791, \"end\": 197.071, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 197.071, \"end\": 197.091, \"score\": 0.962}]}, {\"start\": 198.782, \"end\": 214.767, \"text\": \"現在高中的實驗教育學生已經享有了政府補助但是我們現在在國民醫務教育階段的實驗教育卻還是沒有相關的學費補助我認為我們不應該讓學費成為一個教育選擇權的一個代名詞\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 198.782, \"end\": 199.082, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 199.082, \"end\": 199.222, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 199.222, \"end\": 199.582, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 199.582, \"end\": 199.942, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 199.942, \"end\": 200.062, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 200.062, \"end\": 200.142, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 200.142, \"end\": 200.263, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 200.263, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 701.906, \"end\": 702.126, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 702.126, \"end\": 702.146, \"score\": 0.984}]}, {\"start\": 704.821, \"end\": 719.04, \"text\": \"校長、署長、部長的意見是否可以開放呢?其實我以前擔任過國立體育大學的總務長其實當時學校我們當時也希望能夠做這樣的設施不過對學校同仁來講比較大的困擾在於兒童的安全當他從上面掉下來的時候\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 704.821, \"end\": 705.322, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 705.322, \"end\": 705.682, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 705.682, \"end\": 705.903, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 705.903, \"end\": 706.003, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 706.003, \"end\": 706.563, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 706.563, \"end\": 706.684, \"score\": 0.609}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 706.684, \"end\": 706.824, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 706.824, \"end\": 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734.771, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 735.211, \"end\": 753.598, \"text\": \"有關這個如果是以這個競技運動的這個專業來看的話我們當然可以設計屬於比較年輕因為這種體能障礙賽他可以從年輕到競技只是這個是一個比較需要充分溝通跟設計謝謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 735.211, \"end\": 736.552, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 736.552, \"end\": 736.692, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 736.692, \"end\": 736.812, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 736.812, \"end\": 737.332, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 737.332, \"end\": 738.112, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"競\"}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 738.112, \"end\": 738.592, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 738.592, \"end\": 739.693, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 739.693, 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\"的\", \"start\": 848.151, \"end\": 848.171, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,505 --> 00:00:11,925\n委員會主席\n\n2\n00:00:23,018 --> 00:00:33,355\n委員好部長好今天想跟你來談談一個實驗教育的問題首先想要請教部長您對於實驗教育跟體制教育您的看法是什麼我覺得\n\n3\n00:00:34,977 --> 00:00:57,731\n因為人類的存在它的美是因為個別差異每一個人在我們政府提供的一個體制內的一個教育當然它維持有一定的水準那我基本上的一個看法當我們的供給量演大於需求量我們應該要有政府應該主動去鼓勵也應該把那樣一個友善的環境讓更多\n\n4\n00:00:59,573 --> 00:01:17,522\n讓有一定比例的這些的青少年或者學生他有一個另類的一個學習機會我想這是我基本上的看法部長您認為就是說多元性、多樣性讓每一個人可以擁有適合自己的教育模式尤其在現在少子化的狀態之下對嗎\n\n5\n00:01:19,323 --> 00:01:21,165\n同年9月,實驗教育三法順利通過,讓台灣成為亞洲唯一的法治保障來支持各種形態的國家。\n\n6\n00:01:50,104 --> 00:02:08,430\n實驗教育已經成為父母選擇學校的重要考量學生人數也成長了12倍我們可以看到這張圖部長就會非常清楚的知道實驗教育的人數已經達到了2.5萬在學校形態的有14,326人非學校形態的有11,360人所以我們選擇非學校形態的人數正在上升\n\n7\n00:02:16,013 --> 00:02:29,671\n那剛剛呢,我們部長其實也有提到要多元化那的確在我們的教育基本法上面其實有第8條裡面是賦予說家長可以依法律而選擇受教育的一個方式\n\n8\n00:02:33,244 --> 00:02:53,678\n教育的選擇權是每個家長應該具有的權利而非只有一種次要的選擇這種權利應該要受到尊重而且政府有責任的去確保這種權利不會受到侵害但實驗教育三法裡面也有講到學校在這三法中的學校型態實驗教育實施條例以及國際中等\n\n9\n00:02:54,258 --> 00:03:17,091\n以下教育階段非學校型態實驗教育實施條例裏面也有確定了這個多元化的一個保障所以我想請部長來好好思考我們如何從國家教育權走向國民教育權尤其在12年國教的基本實施計畫裏面其實是有載明了國中小免學費的政策\n\n10\n00:03:18,782 --> 00:03:34,767\n現在高中的實驗教育學生已經享有了政府補助但是我們現在在國民醫務教育階段的實驗教育卻還是沒有相關的學費補助我認為我們不應該讓學費成為一個教育選擇權的一個代名詞\n\n11\n00:03:36,487 --> 00:04:01,882\n我們之前其實已經問過了那當時教育部國教署其實有回覆我們說現在這個已經有針對於低收入戶中低收入戶以及特殊教育學生來有提供補助但我想請教的是部長您是全台所有學生的教育部長而不是只有選擇學校體制的教育部長那您認為我們是不是可以在\n\n12\n00:04:02,842 --> 00:04:04,063\n議員主席議員主席議員主席\n\n13\n00:04:31,835 --> 00:04:54,763\n議務教育階段在這裡邊它還有一些其他的一個學校的一個型態呈現那基本上它還是在一般的我們的這個課程跟上課的一些規劃那我想這裡邊它是一個涉及到比較整體的所以是不是容我們再來更精進的來逐步來\n\n14\n00:04:55,043 --> 00:05:14,870\n好那部長我希望我們就是可以來是不是可以照競速來召集地方相關主管機關來討論補助方案因為其實我們高中職也都高中職都有一些補助嘛那國民義務教育是不是也可以依循這樣子的方式來補助那希望不就是一個月內是不是可以請部長提供一個眼裡的辦法給我呢\n\n15\n00:05:16,328 --> 00:05:41,839\n方向大概辦完因為就整體來看還有一些學校他事實上是受法令上的一些規範對我了解包含這一個修法這可能都不是一個禮拜裡邊就能夠完成的沒有一個月一個月可以嗎我們那個方向我們倒是可以來跟委員報告那一個月內可以來報告是嗎好謝謝\n\n16\n00:05:43,976 --> 00:06:11,562\n那再來就是說其實我之前一直不停的在請部長來支持就是說我們學生自殺自傷的人數一直持續的在上升嘛那我們最近也修了學生輔導法希望可以來加碼支持我們的學生但是我想這個部分我們想要特別強調就是國中端的部分目前我們在國中端其實實務上面它就是一直在增加但是我也收到了這個之前我們其實有問過嘛那其實\n\n17\n00:06:12,982 --> 00:06:30,355\n這個我們也收到了一些回覆啦教育部當時說會給我們一些回覆所以9月16號您的回覆是說有關於本方案往下延伸至國民小學涉及學生適合的心理諮商範圍及聯名範圍心理健康服務內容等等等等是否需要同一學校等等你們要跟衛福部持續的來討論\n\n18\n00:06:36,725 --> 00:06:41,012\n高中以下學生為常見精神疾病治好方族群,應先透過精神醫療診斷。\n\n19\n00:06:47,003 --> 00:07:14,267\n這個是衛福部的一個回應喔那我想問一下因為我們其實現在在15到45歲是有提供這個三次的心理諮商費用雖然說衛福部的回應是說高中以下兒校常見疾病應該要先透過精神醫療來進行診斷但是我們目前還是有提供15到45歲高中生階段就有這三次的服務啊那為什麼國中生可不可以也來研究一下有沒有適合的服務方案呢針對國中生的部分\n\n20\n00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:33,888\n我想這一個也感謝委員的支持我們的學生輔導法確實在這個國中端也做了一些這個專業人力的一個支持那至於是不是比照這個高中生的這個身心調適下這樣的一個三制\n\n21\n00:07:35,008 --> 00:08:02,566\n這是心理諮商不是聲音聲線條是這樣心理諮商這個我想我們我來跟衛福部來研議看怎麼樣來對我想因為既然這部分我就希望就是說再麻煩部長跟署長持續來跟衛福部溝通我們一起來守護學童的心理健康因為每一個孩子都這麼的珍貴尤其在小子化的現在那是不是說一個月以內也可以給我相關的書面報告那我也會再召開會議再邀請署長一起來討論\n\n22\n00:08:03,587 --> 00:08:03,807\n請署署長\n\n23\n00:08:17,776 --> 00:08:34,924\n好我想我們最近一直在討論運動部的事情然後我們也有相關的一些計畫要支持我們的選手我們也有這些全民運動的一些方案等等的那我想先問一個很急的事情因為新興奧這個在2028年奧運項目有一些新興運動\n\n24\n00:08:37,025 --> 00:09:02,999\n那新興運動現在目前在尤其是在這個現代五項裡面其中一個馬術變成了體能障礙的一個運動項目那現在也是有選手喔現在是已經有選手了喔而且現代五項在全運以現在來說有100位未來如果改成體能障礙的話可能人數會增加因為田徑跟游泳的選手可能都會來練這個項目那我想問我們現在有沒有這樣子的場地了報告委員目前沒有\n\n25\n00:09:03,567 --> 00:09:23,421\n目前沒有,好,那我想問一下,因為我們有一個非常重要的,因為2028現在大家都已經開始準備了,我們現在沒有,我們是不是可以把針對新興運動我們所需要的場地,先做一個盤點呢?報委員您剛提到的現代五項的部分,它需要一個封閉的大型場域,需要能夠游泳,能夠有跑步兼射擊,\n\n26\n00:09:24,401 --> 00:09:48,509\n還要能夠做這個極限,這個我們其實是有這樣的場域,只是我們現在正在計劃當中,一直在進展。學長,不好意思,我想說是不只這個,這只是其中一個新興運動的場域,我們是不是可以先做一個盤點,因為這樣我們才能夠去備戰嘛,因為你建場館也要時間嘛,對不對?目前也在做這個案子。但我想先問一下,我們現在這個選手是,應該我想應該是可能是臺體跟國體的吧?對。那請問一下臺體的校長跟國體的校長是不是也可以上來,我們來討論一下。是。\n\n27\n00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:18,451\n請教一下,因為現在五項我們現在是有選手但是我們沒有場地那我們剛剛部長跟署長也都有說我們現在有在做一些研究那我不曉得說臺體或是國體的校長學校裡面是不是可以有提供這樣子的場地空間呢?\n\n28\n00:10:19,897 --> 00:10:44,713\n我們國立體育大學有足夠的場地空間可以來設置這些的運動項目所以針對體能障礙的空間是可以的嗎?可以那臺體呢?我們學校是比較老舊的校區目前恐怕還沒有辦法提供足夠的場地不過我們會配合部裡面的政策來辦理\n\n29\n00:10:46,722 --> 00:10:56,765\n那我現在聽起來部長跟署長就是國體的校長是說他們有場地但是不是可以麻煩我們的國體的來提這個計畫部長跟署長來支持呢我想這一個為國家培養這個體育運動人才能夠在世界發光這本來就是我們的使者我們來跟學校來看怎麼樣來合作來讓這個場地能夠足以提供我們人才的培育\n\n30\n00:11:16,188 --> 00:11:42,146\n我想跟部長跟署長給你們看一張照片這張照片呢其實是它是不是有點類似體能障礙賽的概念那其實現在在有一些公園在我過去在民間的時候我有都有爭取一些那我希望國體喔未來如果我們蓋了這個園區之後這個體能障礙的設施的之後呢是不是也都可以開放讓民間的孩子從小十幾歲的時候國中生需要體能挑戰的時候也可以一起來使用呢\n\n31\n00:11:44,821 --> 00:11:59,040\n校長、署長、部長的意見是否可以開放呢?其實我以前擔任過國立體育大學的總務長其實當時學校我們當時也希望能夠做這樣的設施不過對學校同仁來講比較大的困擾在於兒童的安全當他從上面掉下來的時候\n\n32\n00:12:00,842 --> 00:12:14,771\n全責劃分可以用青少年的方式來界定嗎?最主要也是青少年的來使用嗎?最主要是願不願意開放?是不是可以開放?是可以的嗎?校長您的看法是?\n\n33\n00:12:15,211 --> 00:12:33,598\n有關這個如果是以這個競技運動的這個專業來看的話我們當然可以設計屬於比較年輕因為這種體能障礙賽他可以從年輕到競技只是這個是一個比較需要充分溝通跟設計謝謝\n\n34\n00:12:34,858 --> 00:12:51,614\n那不好意思喔那因為時間有限我想到時候就麻煩校長看看我們的空間是不是有一個給青少年的然後一個給專業的這可能就由校長這樣來評估來做規劃跟設計那就麻煩部長跟署長一起來支持那我最後快快的問一個問題喔就是說這是今天的新聞齁就是這個\n\n35\n00:12:53,235 --> 00:13:14,404\n全中運的金牌教練他面臨失業因為這個體育所的計畫延續沒有消息那我們現在其實大部分都是用約聘僱的一個計畫來聘請這些教練但是我覺得有一個很重要的問題如果我們希望我們的孩子可以有一個持續的運動跟運動表現的話教練一年一聘的這個問題是不是沒有辦法延續這個訓練呢\n\n36\n00:13:15,925 --> 00:13:31,712\n包委員這兩個層面第一層面以這個議題來講我們現在原額要給各縣市已經快要核定了那我想教練們可能會擔心自己沒有工作但其實我們原額是跟過去一樣所以其實這個教練其實在台中縣理論上縣政府如果他表現不錯的話應該會繼續給他那我們原額是沒有變的\n\n37\n00:13:33,433 --> 00:14:02,100\n但是我們還是用醫院聘僱還是是用教育人員目前一樣是用醫院聘僱因為這公務人員的缺是地方必須要開第二件事情是這些的教練其實是地方政府應該要能夠負擔我們中央是來做補助但不是中央的主要的責任但我想因為其實教育如果可以用教育人員來聘僱的話團體的意見是希望說這對抱歉我直接我先趕快講完就是教練可能對教練來說會是會比較穩定那我不曉得我覺得可以來研議一下那既然地方是地方的原因那中央我們自己部立的\n\n38\n00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:08,171\n高中跟大學是不是可以優先來研議?用教育人員來聘用?是,這個我們來遵照辦理來研議,謝謝。好,謝謝。好,部長、署長請回喔。謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11505\t11925\t委員會主席\n23018\t33355\t委員好部長好今天想跟你來談談一個實驗教育的問題首先想要請教部長您對於實驗教育跟體制教育您的看法是什麼我覺得\n34977\t57731\t因為人類的存在它的美是因為個別差異每一個人在我們政府提供的一個體制內的一個教育當然它維持有一定的水準那我基本上的一個看法當我們的供給量演大於需求量我們應該要有政府應該主動去鼓勵也應該把那樣一個友善的環境讓更多\n59573\t77522\t讓有一定比例的這些的青少年或者學生他有一個另類的一個學習機會我想這是我基本上的看法部長您認為就是說多元性、多樣性讓每一個人可以擁有適合自己的教育模式尤其在現在少子化的狀態之下 對嗎\n79323\t81165\t同年9月,實驗教育三法順利通過,讓台灣成為亞洲唯一的法治保障來支持各種形態的國家。\n110104\t128430\t實驗教育已經成為父母選擇學校的重要考量學生人數也成長了12倍我們可以看到這張圖部長就會非常清楚的知道實驗教育的人數已經達到了2.5萬在學校形態的有14,326人非學校形態的有11,360人所以我們選擇非學校形態的人數正在上升\n136013\t149671\t那剛剛呢,我們部長其實也有提到要多元化那的確在我們的教育基本法上面其實有第8條裡面是賦予說家長可以依法律而選擇受教育的一個方式\n153244\t173678\t教育的選擇權是每個家長應該具有的權利而非只有一種次要的選擇這種權利應該要受到尊重而且政府有責任的去確保這種權利不會受到侵害但實驗教育三法裡面也有講到學校在這三法中的學校型態實驗教育實施條例以及國際中等\n174258\t197091\t以下教育階段非學校型態實驗教育實施條例裏面也有確定了這個多元化的一個保障所以我想請部長來好好思考我們如何從國家教育權走向國民教育權尤其在12年國教的基本實施計畫裏面其實是有載明了國中小免學費的政策\n198782\t214767\t現在高中的實驗教育學生已經享有了政府補助但是我們現在在國民醫務教育階段的實驗教育卻還是沒有相關的學費補助我認為我們不應該讓學費成為一個教育選擇權的一個代名詞\n216487\t241882\t我們之前其實已經問過了那當時教育部國教署其實有回覆我們說現在這個已經有針對於低收入戶中低收入戶以及特殊教育學生來有提供補助但我想請教的是部長您是全台所有學生的教育部長而不是只有選擇學校體制的教育部長那您認為我們是不是可以在\n242842\t244063\t議員主席議員主席議員主席\n271835\t294763\t議務教育階段在這裡邊它還有一些其他的一個學校的一個型態呈現那基本上它還是在一般的我們的這個課程跟上課的一些規劃那我想這裡邊它是一個涉及到比較整體的所以是不是容我們再來更精進的來逐步來\n295043\t314870\t好那部長我希望我們就是可以來是不是可以照競速來召集地方相關主管機關來討論補助方案因為其實我們高中職也都高中職都有一些補助嘛那國民義務教育是不是也可以依循這樣子的方式來補助那希望不就是一個月內是不是可以請部長提供一個眼裡的辦法給我呢\n316328\t341839\t方向大概辦完因為就整體來看還有一些學校他事實上是受法令上的一些規範對我了解包含這一個修法這可能都不是一個禮拜裡邊就能夠完成的沒有一個月一個月可以嗎我們那個方向我們倒是可以來跟委員報告那一個月內可以來報告是嗎好謝謝\n343976\t371562\t那再來就是說其實我之前一直不停的在請部長來支持就是說我們學生自殺自傷的人數一直持續的在上升嘛那我們最近也修了學生輔導法希望可以來加碼支持我們的學生但是我想這個部分我們想要特別強調就是國中端的部分目前我們在國中端其實實務上面它就是一直在增加但是我也收到了這個之前我們其實有問過嘛那其實\n372982\t390355\t這個我們也收到了一些回覆啦教育部當時說會給我們一些回覆所以9月16號您的回覆是說有關於本方案往下延伸至國民小學涉及學生適合的心理諮商範圍及聯名範圍心理健康服務內容等等等等是否需要同一學校等等你們要跟衛福部持續的來討論\n396725\t401012\t高中以下學生為常見精神疾病治好方族群,應先透過精神醫療診斷。\n407003\t434267\t這個是衛福部的一個回應喔那我想問一下因為我們其實現在在15到45歲是有提供這個三次的心理諮商費用雖然說衛福部的回應是說高中以下兒校常見疾病應該要先透過精神醫療來進行診斷但是我們目前還是有提供15到45歲高中生階段就有這三次的服務啊那為什麼國中生可不可以也來研究一下有沒有適合的服務方案呢針對國中生的部分\n435560\t453888\t我想這一個也感謝委員的支持我們的學生輔導法確實在這個國中端也做了一些這個專業人力的一個支持那至於是不是比照這個高中生的這個身心調適下這樣的一個三制\n455008\t482566\t這是心理諮商不是聲音聲線條是這樣心理諮商這個我想我們我來跟衛福部來研議看怎麼樣來對我想因為既然這部分我就希望就是說再麻煩部長跟署長持續來跟衛福部溝通我們一起來守護學童的心理健康因為每一個孩子都這麼的珍貴尤其在小子化的現在那是不是說一個月以內也可以給我相關的書面報告那我也會再召開會議再邀請署長一起來討論\n483587\t483807\t請署署長\n497776\t514924\t好我想我們最近一直在討論運動部的事情然後我們也有相關的一些計畫要支持我們的選手我們也有這些全民運動的一些方案等等的那我想先問一個很急的事情因為新興奧這個在2028年奧運項目有一些新興運動\n517025\t542999\t那新興運動現在目前在尤其是在這個現代五項裡面其中一個馬術變成了體能障礙的一個運動項目那現在也是有選手喔現在是已經有選手了喔而且現代五項在全運以現在來說有100位未來如果改成體能障礙的話可能人數會增加因為田徑跟游泳的選手可能都會來練這個項目那我想問我們現在有沒有這樣子的場地了報告委員目前沒有\n543567\t563421\t目前沒有,好,那我想問一下,因為我們有一個非常重要的,因為2028現在大家都已經開始準備了,我們現在沒有,我們是不是可以把針對新興運動我們所需要的場地,先做一個盤點呢?報委員您剛提到的現代五項的部分,它需要一個封閉的大型場域,需要能夠游泳,能夠有跑步兼射擊,\n564401\t588509\t還要能夠做這個極限,這個我們其實是有這樣的場域,只是我們現在正在計劃當中,一直在進展。學長,不好意思,我想說是不只這個,這只是其中一個新興運動的場域,我們是不是可以先做一個盤點,因為這樣我們才能夠去備戰嘛,因為你建場館也要時間嘛,對不對?目前也在做這個案子。但我想先問一下,我們現在這個選手是,應該我想應該是可能是臺體跟國體的吧?對。那請問一下臺體的校長跟國體的校長是不是也可以上來,我們來討論一下。是。\n605280\t618451\t請教一下,因為現在五項我們現在是有選手但是我們沒有場地那我們剛剛部長跟署長也都有說我們現在有在做一些研究那我不曉得說臺體或是國體的校長學校裡面是不是可以有提供這樣子的場地空間呢?\n619897\t644713\t我們國立體育大學有足夠的場地空間可以來設置這些的運動項目所以針對體能障礙的空間是可以的嗎?可以那臺體呢?我們學校是比較老舊的校區目前恐怕還沒有辦法提供足夠的場地不過我們會配合部裡面的政策來辦理\n646722\t656765\t那我現在聽起來部長跟署長就是國體的校長是說他們有場地但是不是可以麻煩我們的國體的來提這個計畫部長跟署長來支持呢我想這一個為國家培養這個體育運動人才能夠在世界發光這本來就是我們的使者我們來跟學校來看怎麼樣來合作來讓這個場地能夠足以提供我們人才的培育\n676188\t702146\t我想跟部長跟署長給你們看一張照片這張照片呢其實是它是不是有點類似體能障礙賽的概念那其實現在在有一些公園在我過去在民間的時候我有都有爭取一些那我希望國體喔未來如果我們蓋了這個園區之後這個體能障礙的設施的之後呢是不是也都可以開放讓民間的孩子從小十幾歲的時候國中生需要體能挑戰的時候也可以一起來使用呢\n704821\t719040\t校長、署長、部長的意見是否可以開放呢?其實我以前擔任過國立體育大學的總務長其實當時學校我們當時也希望能夠做這樣的設施不過對學校同仁來講比較大的困擾在於兒童的安全當他從上面掉下來的時候\n720842\t734771\t全責劃分可以用青少年的方式來界定嗎?最主要也是青少年的來使用嗎?最主要是願不願意開放?是不是可以開放?是可以的嗎?校長您的看法是?\n735211\t753598\t有關這個如果是以這個競技運動的這個專業來看的話我們當然可以設計屬於比較年輕因為這種體能障礙賽他可以從年輕到競技只是這個是一個比較需要充分溝通跟設計謝謝\n754858\t771614\t那不好意思喔那因為時間有限我想到時候就麻煩校長看看我們的空間是不是有一個給青少年的然後一個給專業的這可能就由校長這樣來評估來做規劃跟設計那就麻煩部長跟署長一起來支持那我最後快快的問一個問題喔就是說這是今天的新聞齁就是這個\n773235\t794404\t全中運的金牌教練他面臨失業因為這個體育所的計畫延續沒有消息那我們現在其實大部分都是用約聘僱的一個計畫來聘請這些教練但是我覺得有一個很重要的問題如果我們希望我們的孩子可以有一個持續的運動跟運動表現的話教練一年一聘的這個問題是不是沒有辦法延續這個訓練呢\n795925\t811712\t包委員這兩個層面第一層面以這個議題來講我們現在原額要給各縣市已經快要核定了那我想教練們可能會擔心自己沒有工作但其實我們原額是跟過去一樣所以其實這個教練其實在台中縣理論上縣政府如果他表現不錯的話應該會繼續給他那我們原額是沒有變的\n813433\t842100\t但是我們還是用醫院聘僱還是是用教育人員目前一樣是用醫院聘僱因為這公務人員的缺是地方必須要開第二件事情是這些的教練其實是地方政府應該要能夠負擔我們中央是來做補助但不是中央的主要的責任但我想因為其實教育如果可以用教育人員來聘僱的話團體的意見是希望說這對抱歉我直接我先趕快講完就是教練可能對教練來說會是會比較穩定那我不曉得我覺得可以來研議一下那既然地方是地方的原因那中央我們自己部立的\n842600\t848171\t高中跟大學是不是可以優先來研議?用教育人員來聘用?是,這個我們來遵照辦理來研議,謝謝。好,謝謝。好,部長、署長請回喔。謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢。\n","txt":"委員會主席\n委員好部長好今天想跟你來談談一個實驗教育的問題首先想要請教部長您對於實驗教育跟體制教育您的看法是什麼我覺得\n因為人類的存在它的美是因為個別差異每一個人在我們政府提供的一個體制內的一個教育當然它維持有一定的水準那我基本上的一個看法當我們的供給量演大於需求量我們應該要有政府應該主動去鼓勵也應該把那樣一個友善的環境讓更多\n讓有一定比例的這些的青少年或者學生他有一個另類的一個學習機會我想這是我基本上的看法部長您認為就是說多元性、多樣性讓每一個人可以擁有適合自己的教育模式尤其在現在少子化的狀態之下 對嗎\n同年9月,實驗教育三法順利通過,讓台灣成為亞洲唯一的法治保障來支持各種形態的國家。\n實驗教育已經成為父母選擇學校的重要考量學生人數也成長了12倍我們可以看到這張圖部長就會非常清楚的知道實驗教育的人數已經達到了2.5萬在學校形態的有14,326人非學校形態的有11,360人所以我們選擇非學校形態的人數正在上升\n那剛剛呢,我們部長其實也有提到要多元化那的確在我們的教育基本法上面其實有第8條裡面是賦予說家長可以依法律而選擇受教育的一個方式\n教育的選擇權是每個家長應該具有的權利而非只有一種次要的選擇這種權利應該要受到尊重而且政府有責任的去確保這種權利不會受到侵害但實驗教育三法裡面也有講到學校在這三法中的學校型態實驗教育實施條例以及國際中等\n以下教育階段非學校型態實驗教育實施條例裏面也有確定了這個多元化的一個保障所以我想請部長來好好思考我們如何從國家教育權走向國民教育權尤其在12年國教的基本實施計畫裏面其實是有載明了國中小免學費的政策\n現在高中的實驗教育學生已經享有了政府補助但是我們現在在國民醫務教育階段的實驗教育卻還是沒有相關的學費補助我認為我們不應該讓學費成為一個教育選擇權的一個代名詞\n我們之前其實已經問過了那當時教育部國教署其實有回覆我們說現在這個已經有針對於低收入戶中低收入戶以及特殊教育學生來有提供補助但我想請教的是部長您是全台所有學生的教育部長而不是只有選擇學校體制的教育部長那您認為我們是不是可以在\n議員主席議員主席議員主席\n議務教育階段在這裡邊它還有一些其他的一個學校的一個型態呈現那基本上它還是在一般的我們的這個課程跟上課的一些規劃那我想這裡邊它是一個涉及到比較整體的所以是不是容我們再來更精進的來逐步來\n好那部長我希望我們就是可以來是不是可以照競速來召集地方相關主管機關來討論補助方案因為其實我們高中職也都高中職都有一些補助嘛那國民義務教育是不是也可以依循這樣子的方式來補助那希望不就是一個月內是不是可以請部長提供一個眼裡的辦法給我呢\n方向大概辦完因為就整體來看還有一些學校他事實上是受法令上的一些規範對我了解包含這一個修法這可能都不是一個禮拜裡邊就能夠完成的沒有一個月一個月可以嗎我們那個方向我們倒是可以來跟委員報告那一個月內可以來報告是嗎好謝謝\n那再來就是說其實我之前一直不停的在請部長來支持就是說我們學生自殺自傷的人數一直持續的在上升嘛那我們最近也修了學生輔導法希望可以來加碼支持我們的學生但是我想這個部分我們想要特別強調就是國中端的部分目前我們在國中端其實實務上面它就是一直在增加但是我也收到了這個之前我們其實有問過嘛那其實\n這個我們也收到了一些回覆啦教育部當時說會給我們一些回覆所以9月16號您的回覆是說有關於本方案往下延伸至國民小學涉及學生適合的心理諮商範圍及聯名範圍心理健康服務內容等等等等是否需要同一學校等等你們要跟衛福部持續的來討論\n高中以下學生為常見精神疾病治好方族群,應先透過精神醫療診斷。\n這個是衛福部的一個回應喔那我想問一下因為我們其實現在在15到45歲是有提供這個三次的心理諮商費用雖然說衛福部的回應是說高中以下兒校常見疾病應該要先透過精神醫療來進行診斷但是我們目前還是有提供15到45歲高中生階段就有這三次的服務啊那為什麼國中生可不可以也來研究一下有沒有適合的服務方案呢針對國中生的部分\n我想這一個也感謝委員的支持我們的學生輔導法確實在這個國中端也做了一些這個專業人力的一個支持那至於是不是比照這個高中生的這個身心調適下這樣的一個三制\n這是心理諮商不是聲音聲線條是這樣心理諮商這個我想我們我來跟衛福部來研議看怎麼樣來對我想因為既然這部分我就希望就是說再麻煩部長跟署長持續來跟衛福部溝通我們一起來守護學童的心理健康因為每一個孩子都這麼的珍貴尤其在小子化的現在那是不是說一個月以內也可以給我相關的書面報告那我也會再召開會議再邀請署長一起來討論\n請署署長\n好我想我們最近一直在討論運動部的事情然後我們也有相關的一些計畫要支持我們的選手我們也有這些全民運動的一些方案等等的那我想先問一個很急的事情因為新興奧這個在2028年奧運項目有一些新興運動\n那新興運動現在目前在尤其是在這個現代五項裡面其中一個馬術變成了體能障礙的一個運動項目那現在也是有選手喔現在是已經有選手了喔而且現代五項在全運以現在來說有100位未來如果改成體能障礙的話可能人數會增加因為田徑跟游泳的選手可能都會來練這個項目那我想問我們現在有沒有這樣子的場地了報告委員目前沒有\n目前沒有,好,那我想問一下,因為我們有一個非常重要的,因為2028現在大家都已經開始準備了,我們現在沒有,我們是不是可以把針對新興運動我們所需要的場地,先做一個盤點呢?報委員您剛提到的現代五項的部分,它需要一個封閉的大型場域,需要能夠游泳,能夠有跑步兼射擊,\n還要能夠做這個極限,這個我們其實是有這樣的場域,只是我們現在正在計劃當中,一直在進展。學長,不好意思,我想說是不只這個,這只是其中一個新興運動的場域,我們是不是可以先做一個盤點,因為這樣我們才能夠去備戰嘛,因為你建場館也要時間嘛,對不對?目前也在做這個案子。但我想先問一下,我們現在這個選手是,應該我想應該是可能是臺體跟國體的吧?對。那請問一下臺體的校長跟國體的校長是不是也可以上來,我們來討論一下。是。\n請教一下,因為現在五項我們現在是有選手但是我們沒有場地那我們剛剛部長跟署長也都有說我們現在有在做一些研究那我不曉得說臺體或是國體的校長學校裡面是不是可以有提供這樣子的場地空間呢?\n我們國立體育大學有足夠的場地空間可以來設置這些的運動項目所以針對體能障礙的空間是可以的嗎?可以那臺體呢?我們學校是比較老舊的校區目前恐怕還沒有辦法提供足夠的場地不過我們會配合部裡面的政策來辦理\n那我現在聽起來部長跟署長就是國體的校長是說他們有場地但是不是可以麻煩我們的國體的來提這個計畫部長跟署長來支持呢我想這一個為國家培養這個體育運動人才能夠在世界發光這本來就是我們的使者我們來跟學校來看怎麼樣來合作來讓這個場地能夠足以提供我們人才的培育\n我想跟部長跟署長給你們看一張照片這張照片呢其實是它是不是有點類似體能障礙賽的概念那其實現在在有一些公園在我過去在民間的時候我有都有爭取一些那我希望國體喔未來如果我們蓋了這個園區之後這個體能障礙的設施的之後呢是不是也都可以開放讓民間的孩子從小十幾歲的時候國中生需要體能挑戰的時候也可以一起來使用呢\n校長、署長、部長的意見是否可以開放呢?其實我以前擔任過國立體育大學的總務長其實當時學校我們當時也希望能夠做這樣的設施不過對學校同仁來講比較大的困擾在於兒童的安全當他從上面掉下來的時候\n全責劃分可以用青少年的方式來界定嗎?最主要也是青少年的來使用嗎?最主要是願不願意開放?是不是可以開放?是可以的嗎?校長您的看法是?\n有關這個如果是以這個競技運動的這個專業來看的話我們當然可以設計屬於比較年輕因為這種體能障礙賽他可以從年輕到競技只是這個是一個比較需要充分溝通跟設計謝謝\n那不好意思喔那因為時間有限我想到時候就麻煩校長看看我們的空間是不是有一個給青少年的然後一個給專業的這可能就由校長這樣來評估來做規劃跟設計那就麻煩部長跟署長一起來支持那我最後快快的問一個問題喔就是說這是今天的新聞齁就是這個\n全中運的金牌教練他面臨失業因為這個體育所的計畫延續沒有消息那我們現在其實大部分都是用約聘僱的一個計畫來聘請這些教練但是我覺得有一個很重要的問題如果我們希望我們的孩子可以有一個持續的運動跟運動表現的話教練一年一聘的這個問題是不是沒有辦法延續這個訓練呢\n包委員這兩個層面第一層面以這個議題來講我們現在原額要給各縣市已經快要核定了那我想教練們可能會擔心自己沒有工作但其實我們原額是跟過去一樣所以其實這個教練其實在台中縣理論上縣政府如果他表現不錯的話應該會繼續給他那我們原額是沒有變的\n但是我們還是用醫院聘僱還是是用教育人員目前一樣是用醫院聘僱因為這公務人員的缺是地方必須要開第二件事情是這些的教練其實是地方政府應該要能夠負擔我們中央是來做補助但不是中央的主要的責任但我想因為其實教育如果可以用教育人員來聘僱的話團體的意見是希望說這對抱歉我直接我先趕快講完就是教練可能對教練來說會是會比較穩定那我不曉得我覺得可以來研議一下那既然地方是地方的原因那中央我們自己部立的\n高中跟大學是不是可以優先來研議?用教育人員來聘用?是,這個我們來遵照辦理來研議,謝謝。好,謝謝。好,部長、署長請回喔。謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.505 --> 00:11.925\n委員會主席\n\n00:23.018 --> 00:33.355\n委員好部長好今天想跟你來談談一個實驗教育的問題首先想要請教部長您對於實驗教育跟體制教育您的看法是什麼我覺得\n\n00:34.977 --> 00:57.731\n因為人類的存在它的美是因為個別差異每一個人在我們政府提供的一個體制內的一個教育當然它維持有一定的水準那我基本上的一個看法當我們的供給量演大於需求量我們應該要有政府應該主動去鼓勵也應該把那樣一個友善的環境讓更多\n\n00:59.573 --> 01:17.522\n讓有一定比例的這些的青少年或者學生他有一個另類的一個學習機會我想這是我基本上的看法部長您認為就是說多元性、多樣性讓每一個人可以擁有適合自己的教育模式尤其在現在少子化的狀態之下對嗎\n\n01:19.323 --> 01:21.165\n同年9月,實驗教育三法順利通過,讓台灣成為亞洲唯一的法治保障來支持各種形態的國家。\n\n01:50.104 --> 02:08.430\n實驗教育已經成為父母選擇學校的重要考量學生人數也成長了12倍我們可以看到這張圖部長就會非常清楚的知道實驗教育的人數已經達到了2.5萬在學校形態的有14,326人非學校形態的有11,360人所以我們選擇非學校形態的人數正在上升\n\n02:16.013 --> 02:29.671\n那剛剛呢,我們部長其實也有提到要多元化那的確在我們的教育基本法上面其實有第8條裡面是賦予說家長可以依法律而選擇受教育的一個方式\n\n02:33.244 --> 02:53.678\n教育的選擇權是每個家長應該具有的權利而非只有一種次要的選擇這種權利應該要受到尊重而且政府有責任的去確保這種權利不會受到侵害但實驗教育三法裡面也有講到學校在這三法中的學校型態實驗教育實施條例以及國際中等\n\n02:54.258 --> 03:17.091\n以下教育階段非學校型態實驗教育實施條例裏面也有確定了這個多元化的一個保障所以我想請部長來好好思考我們如何從國家教育權走向國民教育權尤其在12年國教的基本實施計畫裏面其實是有載明了國中小免學費的政策\n\n03:18.782 --> 03:34.767\n現在高中的實驗教育學生已經享有了政府補助但是我們現在在國民醫務教育階段的實驗教育卻還是沒有相關的學費補助我認為我們不應該讓學費成為一個教育選擇權的一個代名詞\n\n03:36.487 --> 04:01.882\n我們之前其實已經問過了那當時教育部國教署其實有回覆我們說現在這個已經有針對於低收入戶中低收入戶以及特殊教育學生來有提供補助但我想請教的是部長您是全台所有學生的教育部長而不是只有選擇學校體制的教育部長那您認為我們是不是可以在\n\n04:02.842 --> 04:04.063\n議員主席議員主席議員主席\n\n04:31.835 --> 04:54.763\n議務教育階段在這裡邊它還有一些其他的一個學校的一個型態呈現那基本上它還是在一般的我們的這個課程跟上課的一些規劃那我想這裡邊它是一個涉及到比較整體的所以是不是容我們再來更精進的來逐步來\n\n04:55.043 --> 05:14.870\n好那部長我希望我們就是可以來是不是可以照競速來召集地方相關主管機關來討論補助方案因為其實我們高中職也都高中職都有一些補助嘛那國民義務教育是不是也可以依循這樣子的方式來補助那希望不就是一個月內是不是可以請部長提供一個眼裡的辦法給我呢\n\n05:16.328 --> 05:41.839\n方向大概辦完因為就整體來看還有一些學校他事實上是受法令上的一些規範對我了解包含這一個修法這可能都不是一個禮拜裡邊就能夠完成的沒有一個月一個月可以嗎我們那個方向我們倒是可以來跟委員報告那一個月內可以來報告是嗎好謝謝\n\n05:43.976 --> 06:11.562\n那再來就是說其實我之前一直不停的在請部長來支持就是說我們學生自殺自傷的人數一直持續的在上升嘛那我們最近也修了學生輔導法希望可以來加碼支持我們的學生但是我想這個部分我們想要特別強調就是國中端的部分目前我們在國中端其實實務上面它就是一直在增加但是我也收到了這個之前我們其實有問過嘛那其實\n\n06:12.982 --> 06:30.355\n這個我們也收到了一些回覆啦教育部當時說會給我們一些回覆所以9月16號您的回覆是說有關於本方案往下延伸至國民小學涉及學生適合的心理諮商範圍及聯名範圍心理健康服務內容等等等等是否需要同一學校等等你們要跟衛福部持續的來討論\n\n06:36.725 --> 06:41.012\n高中以下學生為常見精神疾病治好方族群,應先透過精神醫療診斷。\n\n06:47.003 --> 07:14.267\n這個是衛福部的一個回應喔那我想問一下因為我們其實現在在15到45歲是有提供這個三次的心理諮商費用雖然說衛福部的回應是說高中以下兒校常見疾病應該要先透過精神醫療來進行診斷但是我們目前還是有提供15到45歲高中生階段就有這三次的服務啊那為什麼國中生可不可以也來研究一下有沒有適合的服務方案呢針對國中生的部分\n\n07:15.560 --> 07:33.888\n我想這一個也感謝委員的支持我們的學生輔導法確實在這個國中端也做了一些這個專業人力的一個支持那至於是不是比照這個高中生的這個身心調適下這樣的一個三制\n\n07:35.008 --> 08:02.566\n這是心理諮商不是聲音聲線條是這樣心理諮商這個我想我們我來跟衛福部來研議看怎麼樣來對我想因為既然這部分我就希望就是說再麻煩部長跟署長持續來跟衛福部溝通我們一起來守護學童的心理健康因為每一個孩子都這麼的珍貴尤其在小子化的現在那是不是說一個月以內也可以給我相關的書面報告那我也會再召開會議再邀請署長一起來討論\n\n08:03.587 --> 08:03.807\n請署署長\n\n08:17.776 --> 08:34.924\n好我想我們最近一直在討論運動部的事情然後我們也有相關的一些計畫要支持我們的選手我們也有這些全民運動的一些方案等等的那我想先問一個很急的事情因為新興奧這個在2028年奧運項目有一些新興運動\n\n08:37.025 --> 09:02.999\n那新興運動現在目前在尤其是在這個現代五項裡面其中一個馬術變成了體能障礙的一個運動項目那現在也是有選手喔現在是已經有選手了喔而且現代五項在全運以現在來說有100位未來如果改成體能障礙的話可能人數會增加因為田徑跟游泳的選手可能都會來練這個項目那我想問我們現在有沒有這樣子的場地了報告委員目前沒有\n\n09:03.567 --> 09:23.421\n目前沒有,好,那我想問一下,因為我們有一個非常重要的,因為2028現在大家都已經開始準備了,我們現在沒有,我們是不是可以把針對新興運動我們所需要的場地,先做一個盤點呢?報委員您剛提到的現代五項的部分,它需要一個封閉的大型場域,需要能夠游泳,能夠有跑步兼射擊,\n\n09:24.401 --> 09:48.509\n還要能夠做這個極限,這個我們其實是有這樣的場域,只是我們現在正在計劃當中,一直在進展。學長,不好意思,我想說是不只這個,這只是其中一個新興運動的場域,我們是不是可以先做一個盤點,因為這樣我們才能夠去備戰嘛,因為你建場館也要時間嘛,對不對?目前也在做這個案子。但我想先問一下,我們現在這個選手是,應該我想應該是可能是臺體跟國體的吧?對。那請問一下臺體的校長跟國體的校長是不是也可以上來,我們來討論一下。是。\n\n10:05.280 --> 10:18.451\n請教一下,因為現在五項我們現在是有選手但是我們沒有場地那我們剛剛部長跟署長也都有說我們現在有在做一些研究那我不曉得說臺體或是國體的校長學校裡面是不是可以有提供這樣子的場地空間呢?\n\n10:19.897 --> 10:44.713\n我們國立體育大學有足夠的場地空間可以來設置這些的運動項目所以針對體能障礙的空間是可以的嗎?可以那臺體呢?我們學校是比較老舊的校區目前恐怕還沒有辦法提供足夠的場地不過我們會配合部裡面的政策來辦理\n\n10:46.722 --> 10:56.765\n那我現在聽起來部長跟署長就是國體的校長是說他們有場地但是不是可以麻煩我們的國體的來提這個計畫部長跟署長來支持呢我想這一個為國家培養這個體育運動人才能夠在世界發光這本來就是我們的使者我們來跟學校來看怎麼樣來合作來讓這個場地能夠足以提供我們人才的培育\n\n11:16.188 --> 11:42.146\n我想跟部長跟署長給你們看一張照片這張照片呢其實是它是不是有點類似體能障礙賽的概念那其實現在在有一些公園在我過去在民間的時候我有都有爭取一些那我希望國體喔未來如果我們蓋了這個園區之後這個體能障礙的設施的之後呢是不是也都可以開放讓民間的孩子從小十幾歲的時候國中生需要體能挑戰的時候也可以一起來使用呢\n\n11:44.821 --> 11:59.040\n校長、署長、部長的意見是否可以開放呢?其實我以前擔任過國立體育大學的總務長其實當時學校我們當時也希望能夠做這樣的設施不過對學校同仁來講比較大的困擾在於兒童的安全當他從上面掉下來的時候\n\n12:00.842 --> 12:14.771\n全責劃分可以用青少年的方式來界定嗎?最主要也是青少年的來使用嗎?最主要是願不願意開放?是不是可以開放?是可以的嗎?校長您的看法是?\n\n12:15.211 --> 12:33.598\n有關這個如果是以這個競技運動的這個專業來看的話我們當然可以設計屬於比較年輕因為這種體能障礙賽他可以從年輕到競技只是這個是一個比較需要充分溝通跟設計謝謝\n\n12:34.858 --> 12:51.614\n那不好意思喔那因為時間有限我想到時候就麻煩校長看看我們的空間是不是有一個給青少年的然後一個給專業的這可能就由校長這樣來評估來做規劃跟設計那就麻煩部長跟署長一起來支持那我最後快快的問一個問題喔就是說這是今天的新聞齁就是這個\n\n12:53.235 --> 13:14.404\n全中運的金牌教練他面臨失業因為這個體育所的計畫延續沒有消息那我們現在其實大部分都是用約聘僱的一個計畫來聘請這些教練但是我覺得有一個很重要的問題如果我們希望我們的孩子可以有一個持續的運動跟運動表現的話教練一年一聘的這個問題是不是沒有辦法延續這個訓練呢\n\n13:15.925 --> 13:31.712\n包委員這兩個層面第一層面以這個議題來講我們現在原額要給各縣市已經快要核定了那我想教練們可能會擔心自己沒有工作但其實我們原額是跟過去一樣所以其實這個教練其實在台中縣理論上縣政府如果他表現不錯的話應該會繼續給他那我們原額是沒有變的\n\n13:33.433 --> 14:02.100\n但是我們還是用醫院聘僱還是是用教育人員目前一樣是用醫院聘僱因為這公務人員的缺是地方必須要開第二件事情是這些的教練其實是地方政府應該要能夠負擔我們中央是來做補助但不是中央的主要的責任但我想因為其實教育如果可以用教育人員來聘僱的話團體的意見是希望說這對抱歉我直接我先趕快講完就是教練可能對教練來說會是會比較穩定那我不曉得我覺得可以來研議一下那既然地方是地方的原因那中央我們自己部立的\n\n14:02.600 --> 14:08.171\n高中跟大學是不是可以優先來研議?用教育人員來聘用?是,這個我們來遵照辦理來研議,謝謝。好,謝謝。好,部長、署長請回喔。謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.505,"end":11.925,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":23.018,"end":33.355,"text":"委員好部長好今天想跟你來談談一個實驗教育的問題首先想要請教部長您對於實驗教育跟體制教育您的看法是什麼我覺得"},{"start":34.977,"end":57.731,"text":"因為人類的存在它的美是因為個別差異每一個人在我們政府提供的一個體制內的一個教育當然它維持有一定的水準那我基本上的一個看法當我們的供給量演大於需求量我們應該要有政府應該主動去鼓勵也應該把那樣一個友善的環境讓更多"},{"start":59.573,"end":77.522,"text":"讓有一定比例的這些的青少年或者學生他有一個另類的一個學習機會我想這是我基本上的看法部長您認為就是說多元性、多樣性讓每一個人可以擁有適合自己的教育模式尤其在現在少子化的狀態之下 對嗎"},{"start":79.323,"end":81.165,"text":"同年9月,實驗教育三法順利通過,讓台灣成為亞洲唯一的法治保障來支持各種形態的國家。"},{"start":110.104,"end":128.43,"text":"實驗教育已經成為父母選擇學校的重要考量學生人數也成長了12倍我們可以看到這張圖部長就會非常清楚的知道實驗教育的人數已經達到了2.5萬在學校形態的有14,326人非學校形態的有11,360人所以我們選擇非學校形態的人數正在上升"},{"start":136.013,"end":149.671,"text":"那剛剛呢,我們部長其實也有提到要多元化那的確在我們的教育基本法上面其實有第8條裡面是賦予說家長可以依法律而選擇受教育的一個方式"},{"start":153.244,"end":173.678,"text":"教育的選擇權是每個家長應該具有的權利而非只有一種次要的選擇這種權利應該要受到尊重而且政府有責任的去確保這種權利不會受到侵害但實驗教育三法裡面也有講到學校在這三法中的學校型態實驗教育實施條例以及國際中等"},{"start":174.258,"end":197.091,"text":"以下教育階段非學校型態實驗教育實施條例裏面也有確定了這個多元化的一個保障所以我想請部長來好好思考我們如何從國家教育權走向國民教育權尤其在12年國教的基本實施計畫裏面其實是有載明了國中小免學費的政策"},{"start":198.782,"end":214.767,"text":"現在高中的實驗教育學生已經享有了政府補助但是我們現在在國民醫務教育階段的實驗教育卻還是沒有相關的學費補助我認為我們不應該讓學費成為一個教育選擇權的一個代名詞"},{"start":216.487,"end":241.882,"text":"我們之前其實已經問過了那當時教育部國教署其實有回覆我們說現在這個已經有針對於低收入戶中低收入戶以及特殊教育學生來有提供補助但我想請教的是部長您是全台所有學生的教育部長而不是只有選擇學校體制的教育部長那您認為我們是不是可以在"},{"start":242.842,"end":244.063,"text":"議員主席議員主席議員主席"},{"start":271.835,"end":294.763,"text":"議務教育階段在這裡邊它還有一些其他的一個學校的一個型態呈現那基本上它還是在一般的我們的這個課程跟上課的一些規劃那我想這裡邊它是一個涉及到比較整體的所以是不是容我們再來更精進的來逐步來"},{"start":295.043,"end":314.87,"text":"好那部長我希望我們就是可以來是不是可以照競速來召集地方相關主管機關來討論補助方案因為其實我們高中職也都高中職都有一些補助嘛那國民義務教育是不是也可以依循這樣子的方式來補助那希望不就是一個月內是不是可以請部長提供一個眼裡的辦法給我呢"},{"start":316.328,"end":341.839,"text":"方向大概辦完因為就整體來看還有一些學校他事實上是受法令上的一些規範對我了解包含這一個修法這可能都不是一個禮拜裡邊就能夠完成的沒有一個月一個月可以嗎我們那個方向我們倒是可以來跟委員報告那一個月內可以來報告是嗎好謝謝"},{"start":343.976,"end":371.562,"text":"那再來就是說其實我之前一直不停的在請部長來支持就是說我們學生自殺自傷的人數一直持續的在上升嘛那我們最近也修了學生輔導法希望可以來加碼支持我們的學生但是我想這個部分我們想要特別強調就是國中端的部分目前我們在國中端其實實務上面它就是一直在增加但是我也收到了這個之前我們其實有問過嘛那其實"},{"start":372.982,"end":390.355,"text":"這個我們也收到了一些回覆啦教育部當時說會給我們一些回覆所以9月16號您的回覆是說有關於本方案往下延伸至國民小學涉及學生適合的心理諮商範圍及聯名範圍心理健康服務內容等等等等是否需要同一學校等等你們要跟衛福部持續的來討論"},{"start":396.725,"end":401.012,"text":"高中以下學生為常見精神疾病治好方族群,應先透過精神醫療診斷。"},{"start":407.003,"end":434.267,"text":"這個是衛福部的一個回應喔那我想問一下因為我們其實現在在15到45歲是有提供這個三次的心理諮商費用雖然說衛福部的回應是說高中以下兒校常見疾病應該要先透過精神醫療來進行診斷但是我們目前還是有提供15到45歲高中生階段就有這三次的服務啊那為什麼國中生可不可以也來研究一下有沒有適合的服務方案呢針對國中生的部分"},{"start":435.56,"end":453.888,"text":"我想這一個也感謝委員的支持我們的學生輔導法確實在這個國中端也做了一些這個專業人力的一個支持那至於是不是比照這個高中生的這個身心調適下這樣的一個三制"},{"start":455.008,"end":482.566,"text":"這是心理諮商不是聲音聲線條是這樣心理諮商這個我想我們我來跟衛福部來研議看怎麼樣來對我想因為既然這部分我就希望就是說再麻煩部長跟署長持續來跟衛福部溝通我們一起來守護學童的心理健康因為每一個孩子都這麼的珍貴尤其在小子化的現在那是不是說一個月以內也可以給我相關的書面報告那我也會再召開會議再邀請署長一起來討論"},{"start":483.587,"end":483.807,"text":"請署署長"},{"start":497.776,"end":514.924,"text":"好我想我們最近一直在討論運動部的事情然後我們也有相關的一些計畫要支持我們的選手我們也有這些全民運動的一些方案等等的那我想先問一個很急的事情因為新興奧這個在2028年奧運項目有一些新興運動"},{"start":517.025,"end":542.999,"text":"那新興運動現在目前在尤其是在這個現代五項裡面其中一個馬術變成了體能障礙的一個運動項目那現在也是有選手喔現在是已經有選手了喔而且現代五項在全運以現在來說有100位未來如果改成體能障礙的話可能人數會增加因為田徑跟游泳的選手可能都會來練這個項目那我想問我們現在有沒有這樣子的場地了報告委員目前沒有"},{"start":543.567,"end":563.421,"text":"目前沒有,好,那我想問一下,因為我們有一個非常重要的,因為2028現在大家都已經開始準備了,我們現在沒有,我們是不是可以把針對新興運動我們所需要的場地,先做一個盤點呢?報委員您剛提到的現代五項的部分,它需要一個封閉的大型場域,需要能夠游泳,能夠有跑步兼射擊,"},{"start":564.401,"end":588.509,"text":"還要能夠做這個極限,這個我們其實是有這樣的場域,只是我們現在正在計劃當中,一直在進展。學長,不好意思,我想說是不只這個,這只是其中一個新興運動的場域,我們是不是可以先做一個盤點,因為這樣我們才能夠去備戰嘛,因為你建場館也要時間嘛,對不對?目前也在做這個案子。但我想先問一下,我們現在這個選手是,應該我想應該是可能是臺體跟國體的吧?對。那請問一下臺體的校長跟國體的校長是不是也可以上來,我們來討論一下。是。"},{"start":605.28,"end":618.451,"text":"請教一下,因為現在五項我們現在是有選手但是我們沒有場地那我們剛剛部長跟署長也都有說我們現在有在做一些研究那我不曉得說臺體或是國體的校長學校裡面是不是可以有提供這樣子的場地空間呢?"},{"start":619.897,"end":644.713,"text":"我們國立體育大學有足夠的場地空間可以來設置這些的運動項目所以針對體能障礙的空間是可以的嗎?可以那臺體呢?我們學校是比較老舊的校區目前恐怕還沒有辦法提供足夠的場地不過我們會配合部裡面的政策來辦理"},{"start":646.722,"end":656.765,"text":"那我現在聽起來部長跟署長就是國體的校長是說他們有場地但是不是可以麻煩我們的國體的來提這個計畫部長跟署長來支持呢我想這一個為國家培養這個體育運動人才能夠在世界發光這本來就是我們的使者我們來跟學校來看怎麼樣來合作來讓這個場地能夠足以提供我們人才的培育"},{"start":676.188,"end":702.146,"text":"我想跟部長跟署長給你們看一張照片這張照片呢其實是它是不是有點類似體能障礙賽的概念那其實現在在有一些公園在我過去在民間的時候我有都有爭取一些那我希望國體喔未來如果我們蓋了這個園區之後這個體能障礙的設施的之後呢是不是也都可以開放讓民間的孩子從小十幾歲的時候國中生需要體能挑戰的時候也可以一起來使用呢"},{"start":704.821,"end":719.04,"text":"校長、署長、部長的意見是否可以開放呢?其實我以前擔任過國立體育大學的總務長其實當時學校我們當時也希望能夠做這樣的設施不過對學校同仁來講比較大的困擾在於兒童的安全當他從上面掉下來的時候"},{"start":720.842,"end":734.771,"text":"全責劃分可以用青少年的方式來界定嗎?最主要也是青少年的來使用嗎?最主要是願不願意開放?是不是可以開放?是可以的嗎?校長您的看法是?"},{"start":735.211,"end":753.598,"text":"有關這個如果是以這個競技運動的這個專業來看的話我們當然可以設計屬於比較年輕因為這種體能障礙賽他可以從年輕到競技只是這個是一個比較需要充分溝通跟設計謝謝"},{"start":754.858,"end":771.614,"text":"那不好意思喔那因為時間有限我想到時候就麻煩校長看看我們的空間是不是有一個給青少年的然後一個給專業的這可能就由校長這樣來評估來做規劃跟設計那就麻煩部長跟署長一起來支持那我最後快快的問一個問題喔就是說這是今天的新聞齁就是這個"},{"start":773.235,"end":794.404,"text":"全中運的金牌教練他面臨失業因為這個體育所的計畫延續沒有消息那我們現在其實大部分都是用約聘僱的一個計畫來聘請這些教練但是我覺得有一個很重要的問題如果我們希望我們的孩子可以有一個持續的運動跟運動表現的話教練一年一聘的這個問題是不是沒有辦法延續這個訓練呢"},{"start":795.925,"end":811.712,"text":"包委員這兩個層面第一層面以這個議題來講我們現在原額要給各縣市已經快要核定了那我想教練們可能會擔心自己沒有工作但其實我們原額是跟過去一樣所以其實這個教練其實在台中縣理論上縣政府如果他表現不錯的話應該會繼續給他那我們原額是沒有變的"},{"start":813.433,"end":842.1,"text":"但是我們還是用醫院聘僱還是是用教育人員目前一樣是用醫院聘僱因為這公務人員的缺是地方必須要開第二件事情是這些的教練其實是地方政府應該要能夠負擔我們中央是來做補助但不是中央的主要的責任但我想因為其實教育如果可以用教育人員來聘僱的話團體的意見是希望說這對抱歉我直接我先趕快講完就是教練可能對教練來說會是會比較穩定那我不曉得我覺得可以來研議一下那既然地方是地方的原因那中央我們自己部立的"},{"start":842.6,"end":848.171,"text":"高中跟大學是不是可以優先來研議?用教育人員來聘用?是,這個我們來遵照辦理來研議,謝謝。好,謝謝。好,部長、署長請回喔。謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":555,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時38分）謝謝主席，我們有請部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長好。今天想要跟你來談談一個實驗教育的問題，首先想要請教部長，您對於實驗教育跟體制教育的看法是什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：我覺得因為人類的存在，他的美是因為個別差異，每一個人在我們政府提供的一個體制內的教育，當然他維持有一定的水準，那我基本上的一個看法是，當我們的供給量遠大於需求量，我們政府應該主動去鼓勵，也應該把那個友善的環境，讓有一定比例的這些青少年或者學生有一個另類的學習機會，我想這是我基本上的看法。"],["張委員雅琳：對，我聽起來就是部長您認為要多元性、多樣性，讓每一個人可以擁有適合自己的教育模式，尤其在現在少子化的狀態之下，對嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我想要講一下，因為這個理念我們是一致的，2014年在臺灣史上有一個很重要的轉折點，就是我們半個世紀以來最大一次的教育改革，在同年9月我們的實驗教育三法也順利通過，讓臺灣成為亞洲唯一一個以法制保障、支持各種型態的國家。這10年來我們的實驗教育從1%變成到今年已經走到了10%，所以實驗教育已經成為父母在選擇學校的一個重要考量，學生人數也成長了12倍。","我們可以看到這張圖，部長就會非常清楚的知道，實驗教育的人數已經達到了2.5萬人，在學校型態的有1萬4,326人，非學校型態的有1萬1,360人，所以其實我們選擇非學校型態的人數正在上升。剛剛部長其實也有提到要多元化，的確在我們的教育基本法第八條裡面賦予家長可以依法律選擇受教育的方式。教育的選擇權是每個家長應該具有的權利，而非只有一種次要的選擇，這種權利應該要受到尊重，而且政府有責任確保這種權利不會受到侵害。","在實驗教育三法裡也有講到，這三法中的「學校型態實驗教育實施條例」以及「高級中等以下教育階段非學校型態實驗教育實施條例」裡面也有確立了多元化保障。所以我想請部長好好思考，我們如何從國家教育權走向國民教育權？尤其在十二年國教的基本實施計畫裡其實是有載明了國中小免學費的政策。現在高中的實驗教育學生已經享有政府補助，但在國民義務教育階段的實驗教育卻還是沒有相關的學費補助，我認為我們不應該讓學費成為一個教育選擇權的代名詞。","其實我們之前已經問過了，當時國教署其實有回復我們說，現在已經有針對低收入戶、中低收入戶以及特殊教育學生提供補助。但我想請教的是，部長，您是全台所有學生的教育部長，而不是只有選擇學校體制學生的教育部長，您認為我們是不是可以再研議來爭取實驗教育中國民義務教育階段的學費補助呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，確實以實驗教育非學校型態的，除了有一些經濟條件不錯的，但是對於這些中低收入戶或者低收入戶、特殊學生，這部分我們來研議，看怎麼樣……"],["張委員雅琳：這部分已經有了，這邊會有補助啦！我現在講的是所有選擇國民義務階段實驗教育的學生。"],["鄭部長英耀：因為在義務教育階段還有一些其他學校的型態呈現，基本上它還是在一般的課程跟上課的一些規範，我想是涉及比較整體的，所以是不是容我們再更精進的逐步來……"],["張委員雅琳：好，部長，我希望我們可以儘速召集地方相關主管機關來討論補助方案，因為其實我們高中職也都有一些補助，那國民義務教育是不是也可以依循這樣的方式來補助？能否請部長在一個月內提供一個研擬的辦法給我？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為就整體來看，還有一些學校事實上是受法令上的一些規範。"],["張委員雅琳：對，我瞭解。"],["鄭部長英耀：包含這一個修法，可能都不是在一個禮拜以內就能夠完成。"],["張委員雅琳：沒有，一個月，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們的方向倒是可以來跟委員報告。"],["張委員雅琳：一個月內可以來報告是嗎？好，謝謝。再來，我之前一直不停的請部長支持，就是我們學生自殺、自傷的人數一直持續上升，我們最近也修了學生輔導法，希望可以來加碼支持我們的學生。但我想特別強調國中端的部分，目前我們在國中端其實實務上面就是一直在增加。","之前我們其實也有問過，教育部當時說會給我們一些回復，所以9月16日您的回復是說，有關於本方案往下延伸至國民小學，涉及學生適合的心理諮商範圍、年齡範圍、心理健康服務內容、是否需要通知學校等等，你們要跟衛福部持續的來討論。後來我們這邊有收到，說高中以下的學生是為常見的精神疾病之好發族群，所以衛福部的建議是應該要先透過精神醫療來進行診斷，這個是衛福部的回應。","我想問一下，因為我們現在對15到45歲其實是有提供三次的心理諮商費用，雖然衛福部的回應是說，高中以下兒少常見疾病應該要先透過精神醫療來進行診斷，但是我們目前還是有提供15到45歲高中生階段就有這三次的服務，那國中生可不可以也來研究一下，有沒有適合的服務方案呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員的支持，我們的學生輔導法確實在國中端也做了一些專業人力的支持，至於是不是比照高中生三次的身心調適假，我想我們可以……"],["張委員雅琳：不是，是心理諮商，不是身心調適假。"],["鄭部長英耀：心理諮商這個我想我來跟衛福部研議，看怎麼樣來……"],["張委員雅琳：對，這部分我希望再麻煩部長跟署長持續跟衛福部溝通，我們一起來守護學童的心理健康，因為每一個孩子都這麼的珍貴，尤其在少子化的現在，是不是一個月以內也可以給我相關的書面報告？我也會再召開會議，邀請署長一起來討論。"],["鄭部長英耀：可以。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。再來我想討論一個問題，這個可能要請體育署署長上來。"],["主席：請署長。"],["張委員雅琳：我們最近一直在討論運動部的事情，也有一些相關的計畫要支持我們的選手，我們也有全民運動的一些方案等等。我想先問一個很急的事情，因為2028年的奧運項目有一些新興運動，尤其在現代五項裡面，其中馬術變成了體能障礙的運動項目。現在是已經有選手了，而且現代五項目前在全運有100位，未來如果改成體能障礙的話，可能人數會增加，因為田徑跟游泳的選手，可能都會來練這個項目。我想問現在有沒有這樣子的場地了？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，目前沒有。"],["張委員雅琳：目前沒有，那我想問一下，因為2028現在大家都已經開始準備了，我們現在沒有，我們是不是可以針對新興運動所需要的場地先做一個盤點呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，您剛剛提到現代五項的部分，它需要一個封閉的大型場域，能夠游泳、跑步兼射擊，還要能夠做極限，我們其實是有這樣的場域，只是我們現在正在計畫當中、正在進行。"],["張委員雅琳：署長，不好意思，我想說的是不只這個，這只是其中一個。新興運動的場域我們是不是可以先做一個盤點？因為這樣我們才能夠去備戰嘛！因為你建場館也要時間。"],["鄭署長世忠：目前有在委託這個案子了。"],["張委員雅琳：我想先問一下，我們現在的選手應該是臺體跟國體的吧？"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["張委員雅琳：請問臺體跟國體的校長是不是也可以上來，我們來討論一下？我想請教，因為現代五項我們現在是有選手，但是沒有場地，剛剛部長和署長也都有說，我們現在有在做一些研究，那我想請問臺體或是國體的校長，你們學校裡面是不是有提供這樣子的場地空間呢？"],["邱校長炳坤：我們國立體育大學有足夠的場地空間可以來設置這些運動項目。"],["張委員雅琳：所以針對這些體能障礙的空間是可以的嗎？"],["邱校長炳坤：可以。"],["張委員雅琳：臺體呢？"],["許校長光麃：我們學校是比較老舊的校區，目前恐怕還沒有辦法提供足夠的場地，不過我們會配合部裡面的政策來辦理。"],["張委員雅琳：好，現在聽起來國體的校長是說他們有場地，那是不是可以麻煩國體來提這個計畫，部長和署長來支持？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想為國家培養體育運動人才，能夠在世界發光，這本來就是我們的職責，我們來跟學校看怎麼樣合作，讓這個場地能夠足以提供人才的培育。"],["張委員雅琳：我想給部長跟署長看一張照片，這張照片是不是有點類似體能障礙賽的概念？其實現在有一些公園，我過去在民間的時候都有爭取。我希望國體未來如果蓋了這個體能障礙的設施之後，是不是也都可以開放，讓民間的孩子從小、十幾歲的時候，國中生需要體能挑戰的時候，也可以一起來使用呢？校長、署長、部長的意見如何？是否可以開放呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：其實我以前擔任過國立體育大學的總務長，當時我們學校也希望能夠做這樣的設施，不過對學校同仁來講，比較大的困擾在於兒童的安全，當他從上面掉下來的時候，這個權責的劃分會是一大……"],["張委員雅琳：我想我們可以用青少年的方式來界定。"],["鄭署長世忠：是，這部分我們再來研究。"],["張委員雅琳：因為它最主要也是青少年來使用，最主要是願不願意開放，是不是可以開放？是可以嗎？校長，您的看法如何？"],["邱校長炳坤：如果是以競技運動的專業來看的話，我們當然可以設計屬於比較年輕，因為這種體能障礙賽可以從年輕到競技，只是這是比較需要充分溝通跟設計，謝謝。"],["張委員雅琳：好。不好意思！因為時間有限，我想到時候就麻煩校長看看我們的空間是不是可以有一個給青少年的，另一個給專業的，這可能就由校長來評估、規劃跟設計，那就麻煩部長跟署長一起來支持。","我最後很快地問一個問題。這是今天的新聞，就是全中運的金牌教練面臨失業，因為體育署的計畫延續沒有消息。我們現在其實大部分都是用約聘僱的計畫來聘請這些教練，但是我覺得有一個很重要的問題。如果我們希望我們的孩子可以有一個持續的運動跟運動表現的話，教練一年一聘的問題是不是沒有辦法延續訓練呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這個包含兩個層面。第一個層面，以這個議題來講，我們現在員額要給各縣市已經快要核定了，教練們可能會擔心自己沒有工作，但其實我們員額是跟過去一樣。這個教練在臺東縣，理論上縣政府如果覺得他表現不錯的話，應該會繼續給他，我們員額是沒有變的。"],["張委員雅琳：但是我們是用約聘僱還是用教育人員來……"],["鄭署長世忠：目前一樣是用約聘僱，因為這個公務人員的缺是地方必須要開的；第二件事情是，這些教練其實是地方政府應該要能夠負擔的，我們中央是來做補助，但不是中央主要的責任。"],["張委員雅琳：但是我想如果可以用教育人員來聘僱的話，團體的意見是希望說這對……抱歉！時間有限，我趕快講完。可能對教練來說會比較穩定，我覺得可以來研議一下。既然地方是地方的員額，那中央我們自己部立的高中跟大學是不是可以優先來研議用教育人員來聘任？"],["鄭署長世忠：是，這個我們來遵照辦理研議，謝謝。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，部長、署長請回，謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢。","再來我們請吳沛憶委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-8","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","萬美玲","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","張雅琳","吳沛憶","黃健豪","吳思瑤","林德福","王育敏","陳昭姿","涂權吉","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","羅智強","林月琴","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葉元之","陳俊宇","翁曉玲","柯志恩","邱志偉","何欣純"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-11-14"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114年度教育部主管\n47 所國立大學校院校務基金、國立臺灣大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基\n金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、教育部所屬機構作業基金、國立高級中等學校校務基\n金、學產基金、運動發展基金、私立高級中等以上學校退場基金；三、審查114年度行政法人國\n家運動訓練中心預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家運動科學中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00006"}}}