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\"詐騙集團比你們的部會都還要更了解科技和潮流那抓詐騙的是警政署、調查局、國安局那請問疏發部的功能是在哪裡呢根據委員報告基本上現在的網路詐騙事實上它也是一條產業鏈他們的做法就是第一步這些詐騙集團會在Facebook或在Google\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"騙\"}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 532.579, \"end\": 532.88, \"score\": 0.553}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 532.88, \"end\": 533.04, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 533.04, \"end\": 533.24, \"score\": 0.548}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 533.24, \"end\": 533.4, \"score\": 0.582}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 533.4, \"end\": 533.72, \"score\": 0.609}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 533.72, \"end\": 533.961, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 533.961, \"end\": 534.341, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 534.341, \"end\": 534.481, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 534.481, \"end\": 534.681, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 534.681, \"end\": 534.881, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"科\", 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{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 543.629, \"end\": 543.649, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 543.649, \"end\": 543.69, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 543.69, \"end\": 543.75, \"score\": 0.321}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"騙\"}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 543.75, \"end\": 543.83, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 543.83, \"end\": 543.85, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"F\", \"start\": 543.85, \"end\": 543.87, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"a\", \"start\": 543.87, \"end\": 543.97, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"c\", \"start\": 543.97, \"end\": 543.99, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"e\", \"start\": 543.99, \"end\": 544.01, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"b\", \"start\": 544.01, \"end\": 544.11, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 544.11, \"end\": 544.13, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 544.13, \"end\": 544.41, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"k\", \"start\": 544.41, \"end\": 544.43, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 544.43, \"end\": 544.57, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 544.57, \"end\": 544.71, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 544.71, \"end\": 544.73, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 544.73, \"end\": 544.811, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 544.811, \"end\": 544.851, \"score\": 0.317}, {\"word\": \"g\", \"start\": 544.851, \"end\": 544.951, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"l\", \"start\": 544.951, \"end\": 544.971, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"e\", \"start\": 544.971, \"end\": 544.991, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 553.258, \"end\": 573.941, \"text\": \"上面這種公開的社群平台他們放一些廣告或者是一些假訊息想辦法把這些民眾騙到LINE的一個那個就是私人空間裡面就是一個群組裡面這是一個封閉的空間然後他在裡面呢他就是如果說一般民眾進去的話看到裡面可能有200個人然後每一個人都在聊說他賺了多少錢等等\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 553.258, \"end\": 553.378, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 553.378, \"end\": 553.799, \"score\": 0.592}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 553.799, \"end\": 554.219, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 554.219, \"end\": 554.339, \"score\": 0.604}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 554.339, \"end\": 554.5, \"score\": 0.524}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 554.5, \"end\": 554.66, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 554.66, \"end\": 554.84, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 554.84, \"end\": 555.02, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 555.02, \"end\": 555.24, \"score\": 0.54}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 555.24, \"end\": 555.401, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 555.401, \"end\": 555.481, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 555.481, \"end\": 555.961, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 555.961, \"end\": 556.161, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 556.161, \"end\": 556.282, \"score\": 0.534}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 556.282, \"end\": 556.402, 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\"去\", \"start\": 570.677, \"end\": 570.797, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 570.797, \"end\": 570.997, \"score\": 0.601}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 570.997, \"end\": 571.097, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 571.097, \"end\": 571.318, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 571.318, \"end\": 571.478, \"score\": 0.504}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 571.478, \"end\": 571.558, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 571.558, \"end\": 571.738, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 571.738, \"end\": 572.699, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 572.699, \"end\": 572.859, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 572.859, \"end\": 572.879, \"score\": 0.028}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 572.879, \"end\": 573.04, \"score\": 0.628}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 573.04, \"end\": 573.16, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 573.16, \"end\": 573.34, \"score\": 0.483}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 573.34, \"end\": 573.42, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 573.42, \"end\": 573.52, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 573.52, \"end\": 573.68, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"聊\", \"start\": 573.68, \"end\": 573.7, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 573.7, \"end\": 573.72, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"賺\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 573.72, \"end\": 573.82, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 573.82, \"end\": 573.84, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 573.84, \"end\": 573.901, \"score\": 0.35}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 573.901, \"end\": 573.921, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 573.921, \"end\": 573.941, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 575.382, \"end\": 604.078, \"text\": \"但是其中199個人是詐騙集團的成員只有那個民眾進去以後會被招到詐騙然後所有接下來他甚至再來呢就是那個詐騙集團會把這些民眾呢就是騙到一個一對一的私聊而且通常是像是Signal還有Telegram這種就是加密的一對一的私聊空間他們的目的就是為了躲避政府的監管然後即使事後發生了詐騙的那個事情的話我們的檢調單位也沒辦法進去看他那些加密的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 575.382, \"end\": 575.462, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 575.462, \"end\": 575.562, \"score\": 0.507}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 575.562, \"end\": 575.682, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 575.682, \"end\": 576.503, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 576.503, \"end\": 576.643, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 576.643, \"end\": 577.163, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"騙\"}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 577.163, \"end\": 577.423, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 577.423, \"end\": 577.523, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 577.523, \"end\": 578.184, \"score\": 0.892}, 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{\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 730.223, \"end\": 730.243, \"score\": 0.064}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,249 --> 00:00:06,236\n謝謝主席,有請國安局蔡局長,還有調查局吳副局長。好,謝謝主席,召會長。\n\n2\n00:00:14,093 --> 00:00:32,502\n早安本席上周才剛去法國進行國會外交剛回國其中拜會了法國的參議院的外交暨國防委員會的副主席他也注意到我們臺灣近年來都飽受了施壓的力道包括散播假訊息還有網路攻擊並告訴我們訪團說法國同樣也面臨了俄國的各種的威脅也期盼雙方未來能夠深化的往來\n\n3\n00:00:41,306 --> 00:01:01,935\n然後在這上面顯示其實AI確實是正以不同的方式在改變整個世界也改寫了許多國家的外交還有國防作戰的政策所以本席在這邊有一個具體的建議就是國安局應該要更加積極主動和我們友好的國家多透過各種不同的管道互相交流AI的情收\n\n4\n00:01:03,276 --> 00:01:16,333\n現在我進行主題有關上週四網路及社群瘋傳一段已是中國開始上播透過AI身為仿生的技術造假的抖音的影片影片是前高\n\n5\n00:01:17,952 --> 00:01:39,064\n前立委高嘉宇批判時政今證實已經是不實的假影片這個假影片是來自中國的抖音影片用AI模仿的聲音生成以假亂真雖然嘴形上面是完全對不上但是這種身為變造的影片恐怕是只會越來越真而且越來越多還有今年1月份2024年總統大選剛結束網路也在瘋傳習近平致電祝賀賴清德\n\n6\n00:01:46,329 --> 00:02:05,909\n當選中華民國臺灣第16任的總統的影片和圖片後來也經證實也確定是虛構的捏造的資訊是錯誤的訊息所以面對資安與國安的疑慮本席想請教國安局未來將如何採取有效的行動如何讓國人有\n\n7\n00:02:07,110 --> 00:02:08,971\n國安局將如何因應中共這些非傳統式的AI技術的武器化\n\n8\n00:02:32,930 --> 00:02:40,398\n的攻擊還有滲透模式還有如何加強這些假訊息尤其是認知作戰、滲透作為的揭露呢?\n\n9\n00:02:41,548 --> 00:03:02,771\n第一部分跟委員說明的是在國際交流合作的部分怎麼樣來因應錯假訊息或認知作戰一直是我們跟國際友盟進行討論交流的重點那大家針對這些印土的經驗來做交流也可以強化我們自己本身民主的韌性來因應這些認知作戰對我們社會產生的衝擊這大概是第一點的說明\n\n10\n00:03:03,391 --> 00:03:30,717\n第二點是針對AI的深層的技術不斷地在網路上散布這些錯假的訊息或影音那基本上我們國安團隊有建立一個跨單位的一個機制在網路上來進行查找那這部分也確實用了很多新的技術跟系統能夠在網路上各個不同的社群媒體平台來找到這些有問題的帳號所傳散的錯假的資訊那找到之後也要進行必要的通報\n\n11\n00:03:31,377 --> 00:03:56,313\n所以跟委員說明的是我們現在大概每個禮拜找到的這些錯假訊息的資訊可能都有到4萬多件之多那我們會從過程當中去篩慮對我們的社會秩序或國家安全比較危害的部分通報到行政院相關的部會來做查處或盡快的來對外做必要的說明這大概是行政措施上我們的努力另外在法規上、法律上也跟委員說明一下\n\n12\n00:03:56,753 --> 00:04:20,897\n因為有一些的AI散布的這些錯假訊息,它假如有傷害到個人的名譽或社會形象的話,因為它是屬於告訴乃論,我們會很強烈的建議當事人可以跟警方來報案或跟司法單位來提告,那來走這個相關的司法的程序。那另外一部分假如有涉及到比較公訴罪的部分,它也許涉及到反滲透法或涉及到刑法的相關部分,\n\n13\n00:04:21,778 --> 00:04:38,695\n那這個部分我們也會跟我們國安團隊裡面具有司法檢查機關權力的包括調查局、刑事局跟我們的縣指部來進行相關的一個查處那最後一部分是跟社群媒體平台的合作、公司的合作那怎麼樣來跟社群媒體平台來做舉發\n\n14\n00:04:40,476 --> 00:05:08,926\n簡舉請他們來下架這些有問題的帳號那過去以來事實上像刑事局這部分做了非常多的努力我看到的資料他們在今年前三季第一季舉發跟Meta舉發的有三萬多件第二季四萬多件第三季兩萬多件所以我必須要利用這個機會跟大院各位委員說明一下我們相關的團隊跟各個單位對於查處這些有問題的錯假訊息的散佈事實上也是非常的努力\n\n15\n00:05:10,179 --> 00:05:11,661\n謝謝局長現在請數位發展部次長謝謝委員好調查局副局長請回\n\n16\n00:05:27,321 --> 00:05:55,140\n請問數位發展部的次長之前盛傳那個數發部針對一般的民眾用抖音服務進行限制但後來經過數發部的澄清由於抖音是在2019年就被行政院列為危害國家之通的安全的產品是這樣沒錯吧?是那目前是不是只有限制在我國的公部門所屬的設備和場域考量資訊的安全全面禁止安裝抖音軟體呢?是\n\n17\n00:05:56,783 --> 00:06:23,462\n那請問目前有沒有對公務人員的私人的手機還是一般的民眾做出這樣的限制呢?沒有那為什麼沒有限制呢?是沒有能力還是沒有法規?還是不敢限制還是根本不想限制呢?因為這個沒有法規因為我們知道說在一些威權國家就是說如果政府看到哪些APP他們覺得他們不想要的話他們就可以馬上下來\n\n18\n00:06:24,142 --> 00:06:47,051\n下令大概一個小時之內就可以封閉把它封起來但是我們臺灣是一個自由民主法治的國家我們做任何事情並不是能由行政部門下一個命令就可以馬上做了我們這個必須要立法然後有一些譬如說它是不是假訊息是不是有那個詐欺等等最後的判斷還是必須由司法單位來判斷\n\n19\n00:06:49,202 --> 00:06:53,785\n根據刑事局下詐騙案件統計,2023年,民眾被詐騙金額高達88.78億,已經創上史上新高。科技上的發展,近年來台灣的詐騙引發民怨。\n\n20\n00:07:05,251 --> 00:07:05,391\n請問一下\n\n21\n00:07:21,385 --> 00:07:44,355\n就是說那訴發部還有在2022年即7月成立的打詐國家隊到現在其中刑事警察局轄下的成立的打擊詐及犯罪中心擔任的國家隊的幕僚那訴發部似乎是不是這樣迴避了打詐的責任呢我們非常積極主動在做打詐的工作那目前的詐騙是透過大部分都是透過網路進行嗎那請問網路平台是不是有訴發部這邊來管理的呢是\n\n22\n00:07:51,076 --> 00:08:18,813\n政府透過跨部會來合作積極的打詐但組織了打詐國家隊但是成果好像我覺得沒有大家想像的那麼理想而且詐騙的集團還是非常的猖獗那今年8月TPOC台灣的議題的研究中心根據輿情資料庫分析針對政府打詐國家隊的各部門在打詐的聲量統計其中負聲量最高也最雇人員的部會你們知道是哪個部會嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:21,345\n請委員直接說吧\n\n24\n00:08:22,213 --> 00:08:26,774\n那就是你們的數位發展部啊所以現在你們的附身量已經高達了1.2萬則而且網路好感度只有0.35那我想請問一下那像現在詐騙集團越來越多而且又盜用了照片和資料而且又跟上潮流這樣也用AI深偽的合成照片和影片在社群中販賣還有廣發各種金融的產品還有投資的訊息那政府的效率還比不上詐騙集團\n\n25\n00:08:52,579 --> 00:09:04,991\n詐騙集團比你們的部會都還要更了解科技和潮流那抓詐騙的是警政署、調查局、國安局那請問疏發部的功能是在哪裡呢根據委員報告基本上現在的網路詐騙事實上它也是一條產業鏈他們的做法就是第一步這些詐騙集團會在Facebook或在Google\n\n26\n00:09:13,258 --> 00:09:33,941\n上面這種公開的社群平台他們放一些廣告或者是一些假訊息想辦法把這些民眾騙到LINE的一個那個就是私人空間裡面就是一個群組裡面這是一個封閉的空間然後他在裡面呢他就是如果說一般民眾進去的話看到裡面可能有200個人然後每一個人都在聊說他賺了多少錢等等\n\n27\n00:09:35,382 --> 00:10:04,078\n但是其中199個人是詐騙集團的成員只有那個民眾進去以後會被招到詐騙然後所有接下來他甚至再來呢就是那個詐騙集團會把這些民眾呢就是騙到一個一對一的私聊而且通常是像是Signal還有Telegram這種就是加密的一對一的私聊空間他們的目的就是為了躲避政府的監管然後即使事後發生了詐騙的那個事情的話我們的檢調單位也沒辦法進去看他那些加密的\n\n28\n00:10:04,798 --> 00:10:28,702\n的訊息他都拿不到然後等到那個民眾已經匯款的時候這時候呢通常那個詐騙集團很快的會再做轉帳各種方式他去洗錢把錢洗掉那這個在後半段呢事實上就是我們內政部警政署他們在做的事情還有金管會他們在阻斷金流那我們數法部在做的事情呢就是想辦法阻止這些詐騙集團把這些民眾騙到這個小房間裡面所謂的小房間裡面就是這些賴的群組裡面\n\n29\n00:10:34,443 --> 00:10:48,451\n因為一旦被騙進去以後我們政府能做的事情就很少所以我們現在在這個打架團隊裡面整個政府打架團隊裡面我們數發部跟內政部以及金管會的這個分工基本上是這樣子我們在前面盡量的防堵\n\n30\n00:10:49,611 --> 00:10:56,275\n我們也必須講我們訴發部事實上非常努力事實上我們訴發部在建立一套系統我們在9月30號到10月14號當中我們已經\n\n31\n00:11:07,061 --> 00:11:13,904\n抱歉是到11月8號我們通報了我們接受了那個民眾48648件的通報那其中15000多件我們已經通知那個Facebook、Google還有Line請他們下架15000多件的這種\n\n32\n00:11:24,508 --> 00:11:25,729\n以上跟委員報告\n\n33\n00:11:51,744 --> 00:12:05,899\n因為我看數法部一年其實耗費納稅人211億根據委員報告我們現在的預算明年提報的預算是86.6億然後再加上前專預算明年雖然會退場但是有47.6億所以我們總共的預算應該是134.2億\n\n34\n00:12:10,223 --> 00:12:10,243\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t6236\t謝謝主席,有請國安局蔡局長,還有調查局吳副局長。好,謝謝主席,召會長。\n14093\t32502\t早安本席上周才剛去法國進行國會外交剛回國其中拜會了法國的參議院的外交暨國防委員會的副主席他也注意到我們臺灣近年來都飽受了施壓的力道包括散播假訊息還有網路攻擊並告訴我們訪團說法國同樣也面臨了俄國的各種的威脅也期盼雙方未來能夠深化的往來\n41306\t61935\t然後在這上面顯示其實AI確實是正以不同的方式在改變整個世界也改寫了許多國家的外交還有國防作戰的政策所以本席在這邊有一個具體的建議就是國安局應該要更加積極主動和我們友好的國家多透過各種不同的管道互相交流AI的情收\n63276\t76333\t現在我進行主題有關上週四網路及社群瘋傳一段已是中國開始上播透過AI身為仿生的技術造假的抖音的影片影片是前高\n77952\t99064\t前立委高嘉宇批判時政今證實已經是不實的假影片這個假影片是來自中國的抖音影片用AI模仿的聲音生成以假亂真雖然嘴形上面是完全對不上但是這種身為變造的影片恐怕是只會越來越真而且越來越多還有今年1月份2024年總統大選剛結束網路也在瘋傳習近平致電祝賀賴清德\n106329\t125909\t當選中華民國臺灣第16任的總統的影片和圖片後來也經證實也確定是虛構的捏造的資訊是錯誤的訊息所以面對資安與國安的疑慮本席想請教國安局未來將如何採取有效的行動如何讓國人有\n127110\t128971\t國安局將如何因應中共這些非傳統式的AI技術的武器化\n152930\t160398\t的攻擊還有滲透模式還有如何加強這些假訊息尤其是認知作戰、滲透作為的揭露呢?\n161548\t182771\t第一部分跟委員說明的是在國際交流合作的部分怎麼樣來因應錯假訊息或認知作戰一直是我們跟國際友盟進行討論交流的重點那大家針對這些印土的經驗來做交流也可以強化我們自己本身民主的韌性來因應這些認知作戰對我們社會產生的衝擊這大概是第一點的說明\n183391\t210717\t第二點是針對AI的深層的技術不斷地在網路上散布這些錯假的訊息或影音那基本上我們國安團隊有建立一個跨單位的一個機制在網路上來進行查找那這部分也確實用了很多新的技術跟系統能夠在網路上各個不同的社群媒體平台來找到這些有問題的帳號所傳散的錯假的資訊那找到之後也要進行必要的通報\n211377\t236313\t所以跟委員說明的是我們現在大概每個禮拜找到的這些錯假訊息的資訊可能都有到4萬多件之多那我們會從過程當中去篩慮對我們的社會秩序或國家安全比較危害的部分通報到行政院相關的部會來做查處或盡快的來對外做必要的說明這大概是行政措施上我們的努力另外在法規上、法律上也跟委員說明一下\n236753\t260897\t因為有一些的AI散布的這些錯假訊息,它假如有傷害到個人的名譽或社會形象的話,因為它是屬於告訴乃論,我們會很強烈的建議當事人可以跟警方來報案或跟司法單位來提告,那來走這個相關的司法的程序。那另外一部分假如有涉及到比較公訴罪的部分,它也許涉及到反滲透法或涉及到刑法的相關部分,\n261778\t278695\t那這個部分我們也會跟我們國安團隊裡面具有司法檢查機關權力的包括調查局、刑事局跟我們的縣指部來進行相關的一個查處那最後一部分是跟社群媒體平台的合作、公司的合作那怎麼樣來跟社群媒體平台來做舉發\n280476\t308926\t簡舉請他們來下架這些有問題的帳號那過去以來事實上像刑事局這部分做了非常多的努力我看到的資料他們在今年前三季第一季舉發跟Meta舉發的有三萬多件第二季四萬多件第三季兩萬多件所以我必須要利用這個機會跟大院各位委員說明一下我們相關的團隊跟各個單位對於查處這些有問題的錯假訊息的散佈事實上也是非常的努力\n310179\t311661\t謝謝局長現在請數位發展部次長謝謝委員好調查局副局長請回\n327321\t355140\t請問數位發展部的次長之前盛傳那個數發部針對一般的民眾用抖音服務進行限制但後來經過數發部的澄清由於抖音是在2019年就被行政院列為危害國家之通的安全的產品是這樣沒錯吧?是那目前是不是只有限制在我國的公部門所屬的設備和場域考量資訊的安全全面禁止安裝抖音軟體呢?是\n356783\t383462\t那請問目前有沒有對公務人員的私人的手機還是一般的民眾做出這樣的限制呢?沒有那為什麼沒有限制呢?是沒有能力還是沒有法規?還是不敢限制還是根本不想限制呢?因為這個沒有法規因為我們知道說在一些威權國家就是說如果政府看到哪些APP他們覺得他們不想要的話他們就可以馬上下來\n384142\t407051\t下令大概一個小時之內就可以封閉把它封起來但是我們臺灣是一個自由民主法治的國家我們做任何事情並不是能由行政部門下一個命令就可以馬上做了我們這個必須要立法然後有一些譬如說它是不是假訊息是不是有那個詐欺等等最後的判斷還是必須由司法單位來判斷\n409202\t413785\t根據刑事局下詐騙案件統計,2023年,民眾被詐騙金額高達88.78億,已經創上史上新高。科技上的發展,近年來台灣的詐騙引發民怨。\n425251\t425391\t請問一下\n441385\t464355\t就是說那訴發部還有在2022年即7月成立的打詐國家隊到現在其中刑事警察局轄下的成立的打擊詐及犯罪中心擔任的國家隊的幕僚那訴發部似乎是不是這樣迴避了打詐的責任呢我們非常積極主動在做打詐的工作那目前的詐騙是透過大部分都是透過網路進行嗎那請問網路平台是不是有訴發部這邊來管理的呢是\n471076\t498813\t政府透過跨部會來合作積極的打詐但組織了打詐國家隊但是成果好像我覺得沒有大家想像的那麼理想而且詐騙的集團還是非常的猖獗那今年8月TPOC台灣的議題的研究中心根據輿情資料庫分析針對政府打詐國家隊的各部門在打詐的聲量統計其中負聲量最高也最雇人員的部會你們知道是哪個部會嗎?\n500600\t501345\t請委員直接說吧\n502213\t506774\t那就是你們的數位發展部啊所以現在你們的附身量已經高達了1.2萬則而且網路好感度只有0.35那我想請問一下那像現在詐騙集團越來越多而且又盜用了照片和資料而且又跟上潮流這樣也用AI深偽的合成照片和影片在社群中販賣還有廣發各種金融的產品還有投資的訊息那政府的效率還比不上詐騙集團\n532579\t544991\t詐騙集團比你們的部會都還要更了解科技和潮流那抓詐騙的是警政署、調查局、國安局那請問疏發部的功能是在哪裡呢根據委員報告基本上現在的網路詐騙事實上它也是一條產業鏈他們的做法就是第一步這些詐騙集團會在Facebook或在Google\n553258\t573941\t上面這種公開的社群平台他們放一些廣告或者是一些假訊息想辦法把這些民眾騙到LINE的一個那個就是私人空間裡面就是一個群組裡面這是一個封閉的空間然後他在裡面呢他就是如果說一般民眾進去的話看到裡面可能有200個人然後每一個人都在聊說他賺了多少錢等等\n575382\t604078\t但是其中199個人是詐騙集團的成員只有那個民眾進去以後會被招到詐騙然後所有接下來他甚至再來呢就是那個詐騙集團會把這些民眾呢就是騙到一個一對一的私聊而且通常是像是Signal還有Telegram這種就是加密的一對一的私聊空間他們的目的就是為了躲避政府的監管然後即使事後發生了詐騙的那個事情的話我們的檢調單位也沒辦法進去看他那些加密的\n604798\t628702\t的訊息他都拿不到然後等到那個民眾已經匯款的時候這時候呢通常那個詐騙集團很快的會再做轉帳各種方式他去洗錢把錢洗掉那這個在後半段呢事實上就是我們內政部警政署他們在做的事情還有金管會他們在阻斷金流那我們數法部在做的事情呢就是想辦法阻止這些詐騙集團把這些民眾騙到這個小房間裡面所謂的小房間裡面就是這些賴的群組裡面\n634443\t648451\t因為一旦被騙進去以後我們政府能做的事情就很少所以我們現在在這個打架團隊裡面整個政府打架團隊裡面我們數發部跟內政部以及金管會的這個分工基本上是這樣子我們在前面盡量的防堵\n649611\t656275\t我們也必須講我們訴發部事實上非常努力事實上我們訴發部在建立一套系統我們在9月30號到10月14號當中我們已經\n667061\t673904\t抱歉是到11月8號我們通報了我們接受了那個民眾48648件的通報那其中15000多件我們已經通知那個Facebook、Google還有Line請他們下架15000多件的這種\n684508\t685729\t以上跟委員報告\n711744\t725899\t因為我看數法部一年其實耗費納稅人211億根據委員報告我們現在的預算明年提報的預算是86.6億然後再加上前專預算明年雖然會退場但是有47.6億所以我們總共的預算應該是134.2億\n730223\t730243\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請國安局蔡局長,還有調查局吳副局長。好,謝謝主席,召會長。\n早安本席上周才剛去法國進行國會外交剛回國其中拜會了法國的參議院的外交暨國防委員會的副主席他也注意到我們臺灣近年來都飽受了施壓的力道包括散播假訊息還有網路攻擊並告訴我們訪團說法國同樣也面臨了俄國的各種的威脅也期盼雙方未來能夠深化的往來\n然後在這上面顯示其實AI確實是正以不同的方式在改變整個世界也改寫了許多國家的外交還有國防作戰的政策所以本席在這邊有一個具體的建議就是國安局應該要更加積極主動和我們友好的國家多透過各種不同的管道互相交流AI的情收\n現在我進行主題有關上週四網路及社群瘋傳一段已是中國開始上播透過AI身為仿生的技術造假的抖音的影片影片是前高\n前立委高嘉宇批判時政今證實已經是不實的假影片這個假影片是來自中國的抖音影片用AI模仿的聲音生成以假亂真雖然嘴形上面是完全對不上但是這種身為變造的影片恐怕是只會越來越真而且越來越多還有今年1月份2024年總統大選剛結束網路也在瘋傳習近平致電祝賀賴清德\n當選中華民國臺灣第16任的總統的影片和圖片後來也經證實也確定是虛構的捏造的資訊是錯誤的訊息所以面對資安與國安的疑慮本席想請教國安局未來將如何採取有效的行動如何讓國人有\n國安局將如何因應中共這些非傳統式的AI技術的武器化\n的攻擊還有滲透模式還有如何加強這些假訊息尤其是認知作戰、滲透作為的揭露呢?\n第一部分跟委員說明的是在國際交流合作的部分怎麼樣來因應錯假訊息或認知作戰一直是我們跟國際友盟進行討論交流的重點那大家針對這些印土的經驗來做交流也可以強化我們自己本身民主的韌性來因應這些認知作戰對我們社會產生的衝擊這大概是第一點的說明\n第二點是針對AI的深層的技術不斷地在網路上散布這些錯假的訊息或影音那基本上我們國安團隊有建立一個跨單位的一個機制在網路上來進行查找那這部分也確實用了很多新的技術跟系統能夠在網路上各個不同的社群媒體平台來找到這些有問題的帳號所傳散的錯假的資訊那找到之後也要進行必要的通報\n所以跟委員說明的是我們現在大概每個禮拜找到的這些錯假訊息的資訊可能都有到4萬多件之多那我們會從過程當中去篩慮對我們的社會秩序或國家安全比較危害的部分通報到行政院相關的部會來做查處或盡快的來對外做必要的說明這大概是行政措施上我們的努力另外在法規上、法律上也跟委員說明一下\n因為有一些的AI散布的這些錯假訊息,它假如有傷害到個人的名譽或社會形象的話,因為它是屬於告訴乃論,我們會很強烈的建議當事人可以跟警方來報案或跟司法單位來提告,那來走這個相關的司法的程序。那另外一部分假如有涉及到比較公訴罪的部分,它也許涉及到反滲透法或涉及到刑法的相關部分,\n那這個部分我們也會跟我們國安團隊裡面具有司法檢查機關權力的包括調查局、刑事局跟我們的縣指部來進行相關的一個查處那最後一部分是跟社群媒體平台的合作、公司的合作那怎麼樣來跟社群媒體平台來做舉發\n簡舉請他們來下架這些有問題的帳號那過去以來事實上像刑事局這部分做了非常多的努力我看到的資料他們在今年前三季第一季舉發跟Meta舉發的有三萬多件第二季四萬多件第三季兩萬多件所以我必須要利用這個機會跟大院各位委員說明一下我們相關的團隊跟各個單位對於查處這些有問題的錯假訊息的散佈事實上也是非常的努力\n謝謝局長現在請數位發展部次長謝謝委員好調查局副局長請回\n請問數位發展部的次長之前盛傳那個數發部針對一般的民眾用抖音服務進行限制但後來經過數發部的澄清由於抖音是在2019年就被行政院列為危害國家之通的安全的產品是這樣沒錯吧?是那目前是不是只有限制在我國的公部門所屬的設備和場域考量資訊的安全全面禁止安裝抖音軟體呢?是\n那請問目前有沒有對公務人員的私人的手機還是一般的民眾做出這樣的限制呢?沒有那為什麼沒有限制呢?是沒有能力還是沒有法規?還是不敢限制還是根本不想限制呢?因為這個沒有法規因為我們知道說在一些威權國家就是說如果政府看到哪些APP他們覺得他們不想要的話他們就可以馬上下來\n下令大概一個小時之內就可以封閉把它封起來但是我們臺灣是一個自由民主法治的國家我們做任何事情並不是能由行政部門下一個命令就可以馬上做了我們這個必須要立法然後有一些譬如說它是不是假訊息是不是有那個詐欺等等最後的判斷還是必須由司法單位來判斷\n根據刑事局下詐騙案件統計,2023年,民眾被詐騙金額高達88.78億,已經創上史上新高。科技上的發展,近年來台灣的詐騙引發民怨。\n請問一下\n就是說那訴發部還有在2022年即7月成立的打詐國家隊到現在其中刑事警察局轄下的成立的打擊詐及犯罪中心擔任的國家隊的幕僚那訴發部似乎是不是這樣迴避了打詐的責任呢我們非常積極主動在做打詐的工作那目前的詐騙是透過大部分都是透過網路進行嗎那請問網路平台是不是有訴發部這邊來管理的呢是\n政府透過跨部會來合作積極的打詐但組織了打詐國家隊但是成果好像我覺得沒有大家想像的那麼理想而且詐騙的集團還是非常的猖獗那今年8月TPOC台灣的議題的研究中心根據輿情資料庫分析針對政府打詐國家隊的各部門在打詐的聲量統計其中負聲量最高也最雇人員的部會你們知道是哪個部會嗎?\n請委員直接說吧\n那就是你們的數位發展部啊所以現在你們的附身量已經高達了1.2萬則而且網路好感度只有0.35那我想請問一下那像現在詐騙集團越來越多而且又盜用了照片和資料而且又跟上潮流這樣也用AI深偽的合成照片和影片在社群中販賣還有廣發各種金融的產品還有投資的訊息那政府的效率還比不上詐騙集團\n詐騙集團比你們的部會都還要更了解科技和潮流那抓詐騙的是警政署、調查局、國安局那請問疏發部的功能是在哪裡呢根據委員報告基本上現在的網路詐騙事實上它也是一條產業鏈他們的做法就是第一步這些詐騙集團會在Facebook或在Google\n上面這種公開的社群平台他們放一些廣告或者是一些假訊息想辦法把這些民眾騙到LINE的一個那個就是私人空間裡面就是一個群組裡面這是一個封閉的空間然後他在裡面呢他就是如果說一般民眾進去的話看到裡面可能有200個人然後每一個人都在聊說他賺了多少錢等等\n但是其中199個人是詐騙集團的成員只有那個民眾進去以後會被招到詐騙然後所有接下來他甚至再來呢就是那個詐騙集團會把這些民眾呢就是騙到一個一對一的私聊而且通常是像是Signal還有Telegram這種就是加密的一對一的私聊空間他們的目的就是為了躲避政府的監管然後即使事後發生了詐騙的那個事情的話我們的檢調單位也沒辦法進去看他那些加密的\n的訊息他都拿不到然後等到那個民眾已經匯款的時候這時候呢通常那個詐騙集團很快的會再做轉帳各種方式他去洗錢把錢洗掉那這個在後半段呢事實上就是我們內政部警政署他們在做的事情還有金管會他們在阻斷金流那我們數法部在做的事情呢就是想辦法阻止這些詐騙集團把這些民眾騙到這個小房間裡面所謂的小房間裡面就是這些賴的群組裡面\n因為一旦被騙進去以後我們政府能做的事情就很少所以我們現在在這個打架團隊裡面整個政府打架團隊裡面我們數發部跟內政部以及金管會的這個分工基本上是這樣子我們在前面盡量的防堵\n我們也必須講我們訴發部事實上非常努力事實上我們訴發部在建立一套系統我們在9月30號到10月14號當中我們已經\n抱歉是到11月8號我們通報了我們接受了那個民眾48648件的通報那其中15000多件我們已經通知那個Facebook、Google還有Line請他們下架15000多件的這種\n以上跟委員報告\n因為我看數法部一年其實耗費納稅人211億根據委員報告我們現在的預算明年提報的預算是86.6億然後再加上前專預算明年雖然會退場但是有47.6億所以我們總共的預算應該是134.2億\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:06.236\n謝謝主席,有請國安局蔡局長,還有調查局吳副局長。好,謝謝主席,召會長。\n\n00:14.093 --> 00:32.502\n早安本席上周才剛去法國進行國會外交剛回國其中拜會了法國的參議院的外交暨國防委員會的副主席他也注意到我們臺灣近年來都飽受了施壓的力道包括散播假訊息還有網路攻擊並告訴我們訪團說法國同樣也面臨了俄國的各種的威脅也期盼雙方未來能夠深化的往來\n\n00:41.306 --> 01:01.935\n然後在這上面顯示其實AI確實是正以不同的方式在改變整個世界也改寫了許多國家的外交還有國防作戰的政策所以本席在這邊有一個具體的建議就是國安局應該要更加積極主動和我們友好的國家多透過各種不同的管道互相交流AI的情收\n\n01:03.276 --> 01:16.333\n現在我進行主題有關上週四網路及社群瘋傳一段已是中國開始上播透過AI身為仿生的技術造假的抖音的影片影片是前高\n\n01:17.952 --> 01:39.064\n前立委高嘉宇批判時政今證實已經是不實的假影片這個假影片是來自中國的抖音影片用AI模仿的聲音生成以假亂真雖然嘴形上面是完全對不上但是這種身為變造的影片恐怕是只會越來越真而且越來越多還有今年1月份2024年總統大選剛結束網路也在瘋傳習近平致電祝賀賴清德\n\n01:46.329 --> 02:05.909\n當選中華民國臺灣第16任的總統的影片和圖片後來也經證實也確定是虛構的捏造的資訊是錯誤的訊息所以面對資安與國安的疑慮本席想請教國安局未來將如何採取有效的行動如何讓國人有\n\n02:07.110 --> 02:08.971\n國安局將如何因應中共這些非傳統式的AI技術的武器化\n\n02:32.930 --> 02:40.398\n的攻擊還有滲透模式還有如何加強這些假訊息尤其是認知作戰、滲透作為的揭露呢?\n\n02:41.548 --> 03:02.771\n第一部分跟委員說明的是在國際交流合作的部分怎麼樣來因應錯假訊息或認知作戰一直是我們跟國際友盟進行討論交流的重點那大家針對這些印土的經驗來做交流也可以強化我們自己本身民主的韌性來因應這些認知作戰對我們社會產生的衝擊這大概是第一點的說明\n\n03:03.391 --> 03:30.717\n第二點是針對AI的深層的技術不斷地在網路上散布這些錯假的訊息或影音那基本上我們國安團隊有建立一個跨單位的一個機制在網路上來進行查找那這部分也確實用了很多新的技術跟系統能夠在網路上各個不同的社群媒體平台來找到這些有問題的帳號所傳散的錯假的資訊那找到之後也要進行必要的通報\n\n03:31.377 --> 03:56.313\n所以跟委員說明的是我們現在大概每個禮拜找到的這些錯假訊息的資訊可能都有到4萬多件之多那我們會從過程當中去篩慮對我們的社會秩序或國家安全比較危害的部分通報到行政院相關的部會來做查處或盡快的來對外做必要的說明這大概是行政措施上我們的努力另外在法規上、法律上也跟委員說明一下\n\n03:56.753 --> 04:20.897\n因為有一些的AI散布的這些錯假訊息,它假如有傷害到個人的名譽或社會形象的話,因為它是屬於告訴乃論,我們會很強烈的建議當事人可以跟警方來報案或跟司法單位來提告,那來走這個相關的司法的程序。那另外一部分假如有涉及到比較公訴罪的部分,它也許涉及到反滲透法或涉及到刑法的相關部分,\n\n04:21.778 --> 04:38.695\n那這個部分我們也會跟我們國安團隊裡面具有司法檢查機關權力的包括調查局、刑事局跟我們的縣指部來進行相關的一個查處那最後一部分是跟社群媒體平台的合作、公司的合作那怎麼樣來跟社群媒體平台來做舉發\n\n04:40.476 --> 05:08.926\n簡舉請他們來下架這些有問題的帳號那過去以來事實上像刑事局這部分做了非常多的努力我看到的資料他們在今年前三季第一季舉發跟Meta舉發的有三萬多件第二季四萬多件第三季兩萬多件所以我必須要利用這個機會跟大院各位委員說明一下我們相關的團隊跟各個單位對於查處這些有問題的錯假訊息的散佈事實上也是非常的努力\n\n05:10.179 --> 05:11.661\n謝謝局長現在請數位發展部次長謝謝委員好調查局副局長請回\n\n05:27.321 --> 05:55.140\n請問數位發展部的次長之前盛傳那個數發部針對一般的民眾用抖音服務進行限制但後來經過數發部的澄清由於抖音是在2019年就被行政院列為危害國家之通的安全的產品是這樣沒錯吧?是那目前是不是只有限制在我國的公部門所屬的設備和場域考量資訊的安全全面禁止安裝抖音軟體呢?是\n\n05:56.783 --> 06:23.462\n那請問目前有沒有對公務人員的私人的手機還是一般的民眾做出這樣的限制呢?沒有那為什麼沒有限制呢?是沒有能力還是沒有法規?還是不敢限制還是根本不想限制呢?因為這個沒有法規因為我們知道說在一些威權國家就是說如果政府看到哪些APP他們覺得他們不想要的話他們就可以馬上下來\n\n06:24.142 --> 06:47.051\n下令大概一個小時之內就可以封閉把它封起來但是我們臺灣是一個自由民主法治的國家我們做任何事情並不是能由行政部門下一個命令就可以馬上做了我們這個必須要立法然後有一些譬如說它是不是假訊息是不是有那個詐欺等等最後的判斷還是必須由司法單位來判斷\n\n06:49.202 --> 06:53.785\n根據刑事局下詐騙案件統計,2023年,民眾被詐騙金額高達88.78億,已經創上史上新高。科技上的發展,近年來台灣的詐騙引發民怨。\n\n07:05.251 --> 07:05.391\n請問一下\n\n07:21.385 --> 07:44.355\n就是說那訴發部還有在2022年即7月成立的打詐國家隊到現在其中刑事警察局轄下的成立的打擊詐及犯罪中心擔任的國家隊的幕僚那訴發部似乎是不是這樣迴避了打詐的責任呢我們非常積極主動在做打詐的工作那目前的詐騙是透過大部分都是透過網路進行嗎那請問網路平台是不是有訴發部這邊來管理的呢是\n\n07:51.076 --> 08:18.813\n政府透過跨部會來合作積極的打詐但組織了打詐國家隊但是成果好像我覺得沒有大家想像的那麼理想而且詐騙的集團還是非常的猖獗那今年8月TPOC台灣的議題的研究中心根據輿情資料庫分析針對政府打詐國家隊的各部門在打詐的聲量統計其中負聲量最高也最雇人員的部會你們知道是哪個部會嗎?\n\n08:20.600 --> 08:21.345\n請委員直接說吧\n\n08:22.213 --> 08:26.774\n那就是你們的數位發展部啊所以現在你們的附身量已經高達了1.2萬則而且網路好感度只有0.35那我想請問一下那像現在詐騙集團越來越多而且又盜用了照片和資料而且又跟上潮流這樣也用AI深偽的合成照片和影片在社群中販賣還有廣發各種金融的產品還有投資的訊息那政府的效率還比不上詐騙集團\n\n08:52.579 --> 09:04.991\n詐騙集團比你們的部會都還要更了解科技和潮流那抓詐騙的是警政署、調查局、國安局那請問疏發部的功能是在哪裡呢根據委員報告基本上現在的網路詐騙事實上它也是一條產業鏈他們的做法就是第一步這些詐騙集團會在Facebook或在Google\n\n09:13.258 --> 09:33.941\n上面這種公開的社群平台他們放一些廣告或者是一些假訊息想辦法把這些民眾騙到LINE的一個那個就是私人空間裡面就是一個群組裡面這是一個封閉的空間然後他在裡面呢他就是如果說一般民眾進去的話看到裡面可能有200個人然後每一個人都在聊說他賺了多少錢等等\n\n09:35.382 --> 10:04.078\n但是其中199個人是詐騙集團的成員只有那個民眾進去以後會被招到詐騙然後所有接下來他甚至再來呢就是那個詐騙集團會把這些民眾呢就是騙到一個一對一的私聊而且通常是像是Signal還有Telegram這種就是加密的一對一的私聊空間他們的目的就是為了躲避政府的監管然後即使事後發生了詐騙的那個事情的話我們的檢調單位也沒辦法進去看他那些加密的\n\n10:04.798 --> 10:28.702\n的訊息他都拿不到然後等到那個民眾已經匯款的時候這時候呢通常那個詐騙集團很快的會再做轉帳各種方式他去洗錢把錢洗掉那這個在後半段呢事實上就是我們內政部警政署他們在做的事情還有金管會他們在阻斷金流那我們數法部在做的事情呢就是想辦法阻止這些詐騙集團把這些民眾騙到這個小房間裡面所謂的小房間裡面就是這些賴的群組裡面\n\n10:34.443 --> 10:48.451\n因為一旦被騙進去以後我們政府能做的事情就很少所以我們現在在這個打架團隊裡面整個政府打架團隊裡面我們數發部跟內政部以及金管會的這個分工基本上是這樣子我們在前面盡量的防堵\n\n10:49.611 --> 10:56.275\n我們也必須講我們訴發部事實上非常努力事實上我們訴發部在建立一套系統我們在9月30號到10月14號當中我們已經\n\n11:07.061 --> 11:13.904\n抱歉是到11月8號我們通報了我們接受了那個民眾48648件的通報那其中15000多件我們已經通知那個Facebook、Google還有Line請他們下架15000多件的這種\n\n11:24.508 --> 11:25.729\n以上跟委員報告\n\n11:51.744 --> 12:05.899\n因為我看數法部一年其實耗費納稅人211億根據委員報告我們現在的預算明年提報的預算是86.6億然後再加上前專預算明年雖然會退場但是有47.6億所以我們總共的預算應該是134.2億\n\n12:10.223 --> 12:10.243\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":6.236,"text":"謝謝主席,有請國安局蔡局長,還有調查局吳副局長。好,謝謝主席,召會長。"},{"start":14.093,"end":32.502,"text":"早安本席上周才剛去法國進行國會外交剛回國其中拜會了法國的參議院的外交暨國防委員會的副主席他也注意到我們臺灣近年來都飽受了施壓的力道包括散播假訊息還有網路攻擊並告訴我們訪團說法國同樣也面臨了俄國的各種的威脅也期盼雙方未來能夠深化的往來"},{"start":41.306,"end":61.935,"text":"然後在這上面顯示其實AI確實是正以不同的方式在改變整個世界也改寫了許多國家的外交還有國防作戰的政策所以本席在這邊有一個具體的建議就是國安局應該要更加積極主動和我們友好的國家多透過各種不同的管道互相交流AI的情收"},{"start":63.276,"end":76.333,"text":"現在我進行主題有關上週四網路及社群瘋傳一段已是中國開始上播透過AI身為仿生的技術造假的抖音的影片影片是前高"},{"start":77.952,"end":99.064,"text":"前立委高嘉宇批判時政今證實已經是不實的假影片這個假影片是來自中國的抖音影片用AI模仿的聲音生成以假亂真雖然嘴形上面是完全對不上但是這種身為變造的影片恐怕是只會越來越真而且越來越多還有今年1月份2024年總統大選剛結束網路也在瘋傳習近平致電祝賀賴清德"},{"start":106.329,"end":125.909,"text":"當選中華民國臺灣第16任的總統的影片和圖片後來也經證實也確定是虛構的捏造的資訊是錯誤的訊息所以面對資安與國安的疑慮本席想請教國安局未來將如何採取有效的行動如何讓國人有"},{"start":127.11,"end":128.971,"text":"國安局將如何因應中共這些非傳統式的AI技術的武器化"},{"start":152.93,"end":160.398,"text":"的攻擊還有滲透模式還有如何加強這些假訊息尤其是認知作戰、滲透作為的揭露呢?"},{"start":161.548,"end":182.771,"text":"第一部分跟委員說明的是在國際交流合作的部分怎麼樣來因應錯假訊息或認知作戰一直是我們跟國際友盟進行討論交流的重點那大家針對這些印土的經驗來做交流也可以強化我們自己本身民主的韌性來因應這些認知作戰對我們社會產生的衝擊這大概是第一點的說明"},{"start":183.391,"end":210.717,"text":"第二點是針對AI的深層的技術不斷地在網路上散布這些錯假的訊息或影音那基本上我們國安團隊有建立一個跨單位的一個機制在網路上來進行查找那這部分也確實用了很多新的技術跟系統能夠在網路上各個不同的社群媒體平台來找到這些有問題的帳號所傳散的錯假的資訊那找到之後也要進行必要的通報"},{"start":211.377,"end":236.313,"text":"所以跟委員說明的是我們現在大概每個禮拜找到的這些錯假訊息的資訊可能都有到4萬多件之多那我們會從過程當中去篩慮對我們的社會秩序或國家安全比較危害的部分通報到行政院相關的部會來做查處或盡快的來對外做必要的說明這大概是行政措施上我們的努力另外在法規上、法律上也跟委員說明一下"},{"start":236.753,"end":260.897,"text":"因為有一些的AI散布的這些錯假訊息,它假如有傷害到個人的名譽或社會形象的話,因為它是屬於告訴乃論,我們會很強烈的建議當事人可以跟警方來報案或跟司法單位來提告,那來走這個相關的司法的程序。那另外一部分假如有涉及到比較公訴罪的部分,它也許涉及到反滲透法或涉及到刑法的相關部分,"},{"start":261.778,"end":278.695,"text":"那這個部分我們也會跟我們國安團隊裡面具有司法檢查機關權力的包括調查局、刑事局跟我們的縣指部來進行相關的一個查處那最後一部分是跟社群媒體平台的合作、公司的合作那怎麼樣來跟社群媒體平台來做舉發"},{"start":280.476,"end":308.926,"text":"簡舉請他們來下架這些有問題的帳號那過去以來事實上像刑事局這部分做了非常多的努力我看到的資料他們在今年前三季第一季舉發跟Meta舉發的有三萬多件第二季四萬多件第三季兩萬多件所以我必須要利用這個機會跟大院各位委員說明一下我們相關的團隊跟各個單位對於查處這些有問題的錯假訊息的散佈事實上也是非常的努力"},{"start":310.179,"end":311.661,"text":"謝謝局長現在請數位發展部次長謝謝委員好調查局副局長請回"},{"start":327.321,"end":355.14,"text":"請問數位發展部的次長之前盛傳那個數發部針對一般的民眾用抖音服務進行限制但後來經過數發部的澄清由於抖音是在2019年就被行政院列為危害國家之通的安全的產品是這樣沒錯吧?是那目前是不是只有限制在我國的公部門所屬的設備和場域考量資訊的安全全面禁止安裝抖音軟體呢?是"},{"start":356.783,"end":383.462,"text":"那請問目前有沒有對公務人員的私人的手機還是一般的民眾做出這樣的限制呢?沒有那為什麼沒有限制呢?是沒有能力還是沒有法規?還是不敢限制還是根本不想限制呢?因為這個沒有法規因為我們知道說在一些威權國家就是說如果政府看到哪些APP他們覺得他們不想要的話他們就可以馬上下來"},{"start":384.142,"end":407.051,"text":"下令大概一個小時之內就可以封閉把它封起來但是我們臺灣是一個自由民主法治的國家我們做任何事情並不是能由行政部門下一個命令就可以馬上做了我們這個必須要立法然後有一些譬如說它是不是假訊息是不是有那個詐欺等等最後的判斷還是必須由司法單位來判斷"},{"start":409.202,"end":413.785,"text":"根據刑事局下詐騙案件統計,2023年,民眾被詐騙金額高達88.78億,已經創上史上新高。科技上的發展,近年來台灣的詐騙引發民怨。"},{"start":425.251,"end":425.391,"text":"請問一下"},{"start":441.385,"end":464.355,"text":"就是說那訴發部還有在2022年即7月成立的打詐國家隊到現在其中刑事警察局轄下的成立的打擊詐及犯罪中心擔任的國家隊的幕僚那訴發部似乎是不是這樣迴避了打詐的責任呢我們非常積極主動在做打詐的工作那目前的詐騙是透過大部分都是透過網路進行嗎那請問網路平台是不是有訴發部這邊來管理的呢是"},{"start":471.076,"end":498.813,"text":"政府透過跨部會來合作積極的打詐但組織了打詐國家隊但是成果好像我覺得沒有大家想像的那麼理想而且詐騙的集團還是非常的猖獗那今年8月TPOC台灣的議題的研究中心根據輿情資料庫分析針對政府打詐國家隊的各部門在打詐的聲量統計其中負聲量最高也最雇人員的部會你們知道是哪個部會嗎?"},{"start":500.6,"end":501.345,"text":"請委員直接說吧"},{"start":502.213,"end":506.774,"text":"那就是你們的數位發展部啊所以現在你們的附身量已經高達了1.2萬則而且網路好感度只有0.35那我想請問一下那像現在詐騙集團越來越多而且又盜用了照片和資料而且又跟上潮流這樣也用AI深偽的合成照片和影片在社群中販賣還有廣發各種金融的產品還有投資的訊息那政府的效率還比不上詐騙集團"},{"start":532.579,"end":544.991,"text":"詐騙集團比你們的部會都還要更了解科技和潮流那抓詐騙的是警政署、調查局、國安局那請問疏發部的功能是在哪裡呢根據委員報告基本上現在的網路詐騙事實上它也是一條產業鏈他們的做法就是第一步這些詐騙集團會在Facebook或在Google"},{"start":553.258,"end":573.941,"text":"上面這種公開的社群平台他們放一些廣告或者是一些假訊息想辦法把這些民眾騙到LINE的一個那個就是私人空間裡面就是一個群組裡面這是一個封閉的空間然後他在裡面呢他就是如果說一般民眾進去的話看到裡面可能有200個人然後每一個人都在聊說他賺了多少錢等等"},{"start":575.382,"end":604.078,"text":"但是其中199個人是詐騙集團的成員只有那個民眾進去以後會被招到詐騙然後所有接下來他甚至再來呢就是那個詐騙集團會把這些民眾呢就是騙到一個一對一的私聊而且通常是像是Signal還有Telegram這種就是加密的一對一的私聊空間他們的目的就是為了躲避政府的監管然後即使事後發生了詐騙的那個事情的話我們的檢調單位也沒辦法進去看他那些加密的"},{"start":604.798,"end":628.702,"text":"的訊息他都拿不到然後等到那個民眾已經匯款的時候這時候呢通常那個詐騙集團很快的會再做轉帳各種方式他去洗錢把錢洗掉那這個在後半段呢事實上就是我們內政部警政署他們在做的事情還有金管會他們在阻斷金流那我們數法部在做的事情呢就是想辦法阻止這些詐騙集團把這些民眾騙到這個小房間裡面所謂的小房間裡面就是這些賴的群組裡面"},{"start":634.443,"end":648.451,"text":"因為一旦被騙進去以後我們政府能做的事情就很少所以我們現在在這個打架團隊裡面整個政府打架團隊裡面我們數發部跟內政部以及金管會的這個分工基本上是這樣子我們在前面盡量的防堵"},{"start":649.611,"end":656.275,"text":"我們也必須講我們訴發部事實上非常努力事實上我們訴發部在建立一套系統我們在9月30號到10月14號當中我們已經"},{"start":667.061,"end":673.904,"text":"抱歉是到11月8號我們通報了我們接受了那個民眾48648件的通報那其中15000多件我們已經通知那個Facebook、Google還有Line請他們下架15000多件的這種"},{"start":684.508,"end":685.729,"text":"以上跟委員報告"},{"start":711.744,"end":725.899,"text":"因為我看數法部一年其實耗費納稅人211億根據委員報告我們現在的預算明年提報的預算是86.6億然後再加上前專預算明年雖然會退場但是有47.6億所以我們總共的預算應該是134.2億"},{"start":730.223,"end":730.243,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":348,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（10時29分）謝謝主席，有請國安局蔡局長，還有調查局吳副局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長及吳副局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，召委早。"],["林委員憶君：早安。本席上周才剛去法國進行國會外交，剛回國，其中拜會了法國參議院外交暨國防委員會的副主席，他也注意到我們臺灣近年來都飽受了施壓的力道，包括散播假訊息，還有網路攻擊，並告訴我們訪團法國同樣也面臨了俄國的各種威脅，也期盼雙方未來能夠深化的往來。在這上面顯示其實AI確實正以不同的方式在改變整個世界，也改寫了許多國家的外交以及國防作戰的政策，所以本席在這邊有一個具體的建議，國安局應該要更加積極、主動和我們友好的國家多透過各種不同的管道，互相交流AI的情蒐。","現在我進到主題，有關上周四網路及社群瘋傳一段疑似中國開始散播，透過AI深偽仿聲的技術造假的抖音影片，影片是前立委高嘉瑜批判時政，經證實是不實的假影片，這個假影片來自中國的抖音，影片用AI模仿的聲音生成，以假亂真，雖然嘴型上面是完全對不上，但是這種深偽變照的影片恐怕只會越來越真，而且越來越多。還有今年1月份2024年總統大選剛結束，網路也在瘋傳習近平致電祝賀賴清德當選中華民國臺灣第16任總統的影片和圖片，後來也經證實，也確定是虛構的、捏造的資訊，是錯誤的訊息。所以面對資安與國安的疑慮，本席想請教國安局，未來將如何採取有效的行動，如何讓國人有辦法明辨真偽，還有如何透過教育和宣導的方式來嚇阻中國越來越猛烈的認知作戰，避免未來發生更大的國安問題？否則這樣的中國造假的影片、認知作戰的新型態作戰模式恐怕可能是未來趨勢，國安局將如何因應中共這些非傳統式AI技術武器化的供給以及滲透模式，還有如何加強這些假訊息的揭露，尤其是認知作戰、滲透作為的揭露呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，第一部分跟委員說明的是，在國際交流合作的部分，怎麼樣來因應錯假訊息或認知作戰，一直是我們跟國際友盟進行討論交流的重點，大家針對這些應處的經驗來做交流，也可以強化我們自己本身民主的韌性，以因應這些認知作戰對我們社會產生的衝擊，這大概是第一點的說明。第二點是針對AI生成的技術不斷在網路上散布這些錯假的訊息或影音，基本上我們國安團隊有建立一個跨單位的機制，在網路上來進行查找。這部分也確實用了很多新的技術跟系統，能夠在網路上各個不同的社群媒體平臺，找到這些有問題的帳號所傳散的錯假資訊，找到之後，也要進行必要的通報，所以跟委員說明的是，我們現在每個禮拜找到的這些錯假訊息的資訊，可能都有到四萬多件之多，我們會從過程當中去篩濾，對我們的社會秩序或國家安全比較危害的部分，通報到行政院相關部會來做查處，或儘快對外做必要的說明，這大概是行政措施上我們的努力。","另外在法規上、法律上，也跟委員說明一下，因為有一些AI散布的這些錯假訊息，假如有傷害到個人的名譽或社會形象，因為它是屬於告訴乃論，我們會很強烈的建議當事人可以跟警方報案或跟司法單位提告，進行相關的司法程序。另外一部分，假如有涉及到比較公訴罪的部分，它也許涉及到反滲透法或涉及到刑法的相關部分，這個部分我們也會跟我們國安團隊裡面具有司法警察機關權力的，包括調查局、刑事局跟憲指部來進行相關的查處。最後一部分是跟社群媒體平臺的合作，公私合作，那麼怎麼樣來跟社群媒體平臺做舉發、檢舉，請他們下架這些有問題的帳號，過去以來，事實上像刑事局針對這部分做了非常多的努力，據我看到的資料，他們在今年前三季的資料，第一季跟Meta舉發的有三萬多件，第二季四萬多件、第三季兩萬多件，所以我也必須要利用這個機會跟大院各位委員說明一下，我們相關團隊跟各個單位對於查處這些有問題的錯假訊息散布，事實上也是非常的努力。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝局長。","現在我請數位發展部的次長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝。"],["林次長宜敬：委員好。"],["林委員憶君：調查局副局長請回。","請問數位發展部次長，之前盛傳數發部針對一般的民眾用抖音服務進行限制，後來經過數發部的澄清，由於抖音是在2019年就被行政院列為危害國家資通安全的產品，是這樣沒錯吧？"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["林委員憶君：目前是不是只有限制在我國公部門所屬的設備和場域，考量資訊的安全，全面禁止安裝抖音軟體呢？"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["林委員憶君：請問，目前有沒有對公務人員私人的手機，還是一般的民眾做出這樣的限制呢？"],["林次長宜敬：沒有。"],["林委員憶君：為什麼沒有限制呢？是沒有人力，還是沒有法規，還是不敢限制，還是根本不想限制呢？"],["林次長宜敬：因為這個沒有法規，我們知道在一些威權國家，如果政府看到哪些app，他們覺得他們不想要的話，他們可以馬上下令，大概一個小時之內就可以把它封起來，但是我們臺灣是一個自由民主法治的國家，我們做任何事情並不是能由行政部門下一個命令就可以馬上做了，我們這個必須要有立法，然後有一些譬如它是不是假訊息，是不是有詐欺等等，最後的判斷還是必須由司法單位來判斷。"],["林委員憶君：好，因為我根據刑事局現在詐騙案件的統計，2023年民眾被詐騙的金額高達88.78億，其實已經創史上新高了，而在科技上面的發展，近年來臺灣的詐騙也是引發民怨，詐騙集團也越來越猖獗。賴清德總統在今年的8月20日出席2024年全面阻絕詐騙論壇中，強調了打詐視同作戰，不成功絕不罷休。"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["林委員憶君：我想請問一下，數發部還在2022年7月成立的打詐國家隊到現在，其中刑事警察局轄下成立的打擊詐欺犯罪中心擔任國家隊的幕僚，數發部似乎是不是這樣迴避了打詐的責任呢？"],["林次長宜敬：沒有，我們非常積極主動在做打詐的工作。"],["林委員憶君：目前的詐騙大部分都是透過網路進行嘛！"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["林委員憶君：請問網路平臺是不是由數發部這邊來管理的呢？"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["林委員憶君：政府透過跨部會合作積極打詐，組織了打詐國家隊，但是我覺得成果好像沒有大家想像的那麼理想，而且詐騙集團還是非常猖獗，今年8月TPOC台灣議題研究中心根據輿情資料庫分析，針對政府打詐國家隊各部門在打詐的聲量統計，其中負聲量最高也最顧人怨的部會，你們知道是哪個部會嗎？"],["林次長宜敬：請委員直接說吧！"],["林委員憶君：那就是你們數位發展部啊！現在你們的負聲量已經高達了1.2萬則，而且網路好感度只有0.35。我想請問一下，像現在詐騙集團越來越多，又盜用了照片和資料，而且又跟上潮流，也用AI深偽合成的照片和影片在社群中販賣，還有廣發各種金融產品及投資訊息，政府的效率還比不上詐騙集團，詐騙集團比你們部會都還要更了解科技和潮流，抓詐騙的是警政署、調查局、國安局，請問數發部的功能是在哪裡呢？"],["林次長宜敬：跟委員報告，基本上現在網路詐騙也是一條產業鏈，他們的作法，第一步，這些詐騙集團會在Facebook或在Google這種公開的社群平臺，他們放一些廣告或者是假訊息，想辦法把這些民眾騙到LINE的私人空間裡面、放到一個群組裡面，這是一個封閉的空間，如果一般民眾進去，看到裡面可能有200人，然後每個人都在聊，說他賺了多少錢等等，但是其中199人是詐騙集團的成員，只有那個民眾進去以後會遭到詐騙，接下來甚至詐騙集團會把這些民眾騙到一個一對一的私聊，而且通常像是Signal，還有Telegram這種加密的一對一私聊空間，他們的目的就是為了躲避政府的監管，即使事後發生了詐騙的事情，我們檢調單位也沒辦法進去看他那些加密的訊息，他都拿不到，等到民眾已經匯款的時候，通常詐騙集團很快會再做轉帳，用各種方式去洗錢，把錢洗掉，在後半段，事實上就是我們內政部警政署他們在做的事情，還有金管會，他們在阻斷金流，那我們數發部在做的事情就是想辦法阻止這些詐騙集團，把這些民眾騙到這個小房間裡面，所謂的小房間裡面，就是這些LINE的群組裡面，因為一旦被騙進去以後，我們政府能做的事情就很少，所以我們現在在這個打詐團隊裡面，即整個政府的打詐團隊裡面，我們數發部跟內政部以及金管會的分工基本上是這樣子，我們在前面儘量的防堵，我們也必須講，我們數發部非常努力，事實上我們有建立一套系統，在9月30號到10月14號當中，抱歉，是到11月8號，我們接受了民眾4萬8,648件的通報，其中一萬五千多件，我們已經通知Facebook、Google還有LINE請他們下架，一萬五千多件的這種可疑的詐騙廣告或者訊息，如果我們不做這件事情的話，那這一萬五千多則的詐騙訊息或者是廣告，一定會騙更多的民眾進入這個小房間，所以我們做這個事情很多的民眾沒有感覺到，因為這個事情，這些詐騙後來就沒有發生了，沒有發生並不表示我們沒有做事，事實上我們數發部的同仁是非常努力在做這件事情的，以上跟委員報告，謝謝。"],["林委員憶君：因為我看數發部一年其實耗費納稅人211億……"],["林次長宜敬：跟委員報告，我們現在的預算，明年提報的預算是86.6億，然後再加上前瞻預算，明年雖然會退場，但是有47.6億，所以我們總共的預算應該是134.2億，謝謝委員。"],["林委員憶君：但是到現在資安問題還是很嚴重，所以打詐到現在似乎還是沒有對其他部會有任何的幫助和成效，但是我還是希望，最後還是希望數發部要好好的發揮整個功能。"],["林次長宜敬：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請陳冠廷委員發言。因為局長時間有限，請您這邊控制好。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":58,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-14","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","洪申翰","徐巧芯","黃仁","沈伯洋","陳永康","陳冠廷","馬文君","王鴻薇","賴士葆","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","王定宇","林楚茵"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長、數位發展部、法務部調查局、內政部警政署、國家科學及技術委員會報告\n「AI 技術在資安、深偽（Deepfake）影片及錯假訊息之影響評估及因應」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310101_00001"}}}