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00:01:07,988\n在這一塊雖然部分新聞我已經看到包括消費者的物價指數比上一次我們調整的時候其實差距已經累積高達10%以上了那雖然部分的媒體我有看到有一些報導的數字但是已經10月底了那到底我要請問一下部長到底我們什麼時候會公佈完整的級距跟數字\n\n4\n00:01:09,884 --> 00:01:23,874\n對,跟委員報告對於課稅級距的金額的CPI的上漲程度超過10%了對,早就應該調了嘛,對不對?對,12.42%所以呢,我們在今年年底以前就會公告明年所適用的一個課稅級距的金額\n\n5\n00:01:24,975 --> 00:01:42,967\n市長,有沒有可能再提早一點?因為媒體有沒有已經看到部分的資訊了?我的意思是說,因為你到年底那種明年人家來不及去做稅務的規劃,要做證語的話,就來不及去規劃,所以我已經看到媒體有部分,所以有沒有可能再提早一點?因為現在已經10月了嘛,11月了吧?\n\n6\n00:01:44,062 --> 00:01:48,926\n我們在一個月以內就來做公告,好嗎?好,謝謝部長。包括不計預算總額、扣除額這些,其實現在物價真的調得非常多。所以我覺得有機會,當然這是兩件不同的事情。\n\n7\n00:02:02,296 --> 00:02:03,217\n目前是在法律稅規定說要超過累計超過10%\n\n8\n00:02:22,402 --> 00:02:51,309\n才會去做調整那上一次在112年已經還有113年也都做過調整了對我知道每一個每一個項目調整的時間不同所以要去看他累計的我知道我知道你們有一定的標準但是現在時空環境物價這幾年大家面臨的挑戰又不一樣所以我在想說這一塊我覺得你們當然有有有有一定的調整的一個一個一個時間點跟集聚達到但是我覺得那個整個都要\n\n9\n00:02:52,554 --> 00:02:56,843\n平現在的大環境時空我覺得再去做進一步的考量可不可以\n\n10\n00:02:59,607 --> 00:03:20,063\n謝謝部長接下來部長有一個議題我先把國有財產署問完署長因為國有財產署閒置的土地非常非常的多我地方常常在辦會堪譬如說颱風天如果是私人土地山坡地速打下來倒下來不小心打到人所有權人有責任要去做賠償對不對\n\n11\n00:03:22,825 --> 00:03:51,272\n你的土地也不少,樹長得也很多我常常颱風前要去會刊地方政府說這個是中央的沒有錢來去做處理所以我覺得無論是你現在國有財產署閒置的土地要不要去做活用或要不要去做什麼樣的管理或者是野草長得亂七八糟的我覺得那個都要有足夠的經費然後要有人去做巡視跟檢視\n\n12\n00:03:53,157 --> 00:04:00,092\n否則你就乾脆就是閒置的土地你看地方要不要用怎麼樣去做活用跟各縣市全國有一個更好的計畫來去做進行\n\n13\n00:04:03,694 --> 00:04:29,216\n你清楚我今天議題很多我就不要占用這個時間我是做這樣子的提醒我簡單跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛講的如果可以跟地方政府像村里長可以做認養綠美化的部分我覺得你那個誘因要夠啦你給里長多一個這樣的規定譬如說停車假設停車是大家的需求或者是做種樹種什麼樣的是大家的需求\n\n14\n00:04:29,696 --> 00:04:53,127\n我覺得你應該多一點的彈性給對方更多的用意去做處理否則這一次我覺得樹倒下來從你國有財產署的土地也不少我們也知道委員剛剛的情形所以從去年開始我們寫了一個中長城計畫那就是整個環境的清理所以這一次颱風完之後環境的清理然後預算你要有一點錢去處理現在地方也沒什麼經費\n\n15\n00:04:55,728 --> 00:05:09,318\n6都可能還好其實各縣是很辛苦所以你這個經費一定要編的足夠好我就時間不讓你時間到這邊再提就好我要做這樣的提議我希望這一次我主決議裡面一定會提部長你清楚我的意思我覺得這個是有必要要做否則颱風來速打到人\n\n16\n00:05:11,579 --> 00:05:31,766\n我前面去會堪地方都跟我講沒錢這是中央的事情然後你地方經費又不足所以這個我提醒做出去那第二個你們兩位請回第二個部長我要請問一下就是說最近健保署當然我們健保的費用其實很多都要撥補臺電也要跟你要錢營業稅也要要錢健保署提了一個構想就是說未來的營業稅我們的消費稅可不可以做財源性的撥補\n\n17\n00:05:40,670 --> 00:05:41,739\n你的看法到底是什麼?\n\n18\n00:05:43,544 --> 00:06:11,643\n跟委員報告營業稅目前基本的稅率就是5%是法定稅率我知道但是健保署提出來這樣的建議就可以做健保的固定的比例來做支援你的看法是什麼營業稅的調整涉及到有關實質租稅的負擔我清楚部長我時間很長你直接你的看法是同意還不同意支持還是不支持另外也要跟委員報告在財政紀律法裡面有規定\n\n19\n00:06:13,924 --> 00:06:35,765\n當然財政紀律法它要統收統資然後不得增加比例也不得成立基金的專管專用對這個你我都知道我想石署長他其實是為了健保的一個更好的永續所以他有一些意見那這個部分我們也會去跟他溝通包含財紀法的規定跟營業稅率的一些調整那類似這樣的想法部長類似這樣的想法\n\n20\n00:06:40,250 --> 00:06:50,419\n院理包括中太院長或者是高層的更高層長有沒有去做過溝通?有沒有曾經做過溝通?院長有沒有關心過類似這樣的事情?因為健保的錢財務狀況當然也非常的辛苦所以有沒有做過類似的溝通?\n\n21\n00:07:07,672 --> 00:07:27,646\n這個部分因為涉及到健保署的業務跟衛福部的業務而我們沒有去參與這樣的會議這樣子所以院裡面都沒有人跟你做過溝通這件事情沒有純粹是衛福部內部的想法我想我們會跟衛福部這邊再做一次溝通對\n\n22\n00:07:29,062 --> 00:07:29,242\n委員會主席\n\n23\n00:07:45,165 --> 00:07:45,345\n委員會主席\n\n24\n00:08:05,862 --> 00:08:06,002\n主席主席\n\n25\n00:08:21,421 --> 00:08:42,932\n因為時間有限我要問一下有關於課稅的制度要怎麼去做調整部長現在所有的民間包括跟稅務制度相關的一些議題就是說很多民眾他仍舊願意花很多的時間跟成本去進行有關於課稅的一些稅務的訴訟你知道原因是為什麼嗎\n\n26\n00:08:44,761 --> 00:09:00,910\n因為但是行政訴訟的案件有一半都是稅務的案件那其實稅務的案件它的勝訴率其實非常的低但是民眾仍舊願意花時間成本去做稅務的訴訟你知道原因是什麼嗎?\n\n27\n00:09:03,573 --> 00:09:28,825\n民眾申請提出這個訴訟是民眾的一個權益他們可以提出來了對但是他的救濟的途徑也很多但是民眾覺得有一些在法律的制定的過程當中其實很多民眾他的目的不是要逃稅他覺得他的目的可能有很多不同的原因但是稅務法規非常多多如牛毛所以很多情況\n\n28\n00:09:30,026 --> 00:09:53,861\n很多時候他們也不知道哪些是必須要申報的或者是有時候他們收到了罰單之後才知道說這個應該要罰稅但是他也願意補繳我也關注到就是說在行政法裡面行政法院裡面他們也提到就是說好幾個案例他也提到就是說包括稅政機關對於具體的個案他也提醒你們說必須有一些你看到有一些是這個財閥有一些是違章情形叫輕者\n\n29\n00:09:58,704 --> 00:10:01,730\n其實你們有一些裁量空間可以去處理\n\n30\n00:10:04,396 --> 00:10:31,028\n但是你們這樣子第4條裡面你們很少去用到這樣子的法規就是說其實行政法院也要提醒你們有好幾個案例就是考量納稅人的行為嚴重程度還有背後可能有不同的原因不能只看漏報後面如果有補繳那後面就讓他補繳但是後面有裁罰有一些裁罰事實上要看他的狀況來去做調整否則的話你們就是行政怠惰\n\n31\n00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:43,385\n我覺得第4條是可以適用但是有時候我開協調會他們有時候是不知道要繳但他們願意繳逃漏的部分但是你們是加倍加重的懲處\n\n32\n00:10:45,692 --> 00:11:08,322\n我覺得政府的目的不是要透過罰款來賺錢是要提醒是謝謝委員我想剛剛委員提到就是說行政訴訟的部分因為現在我們就有設置納保官所以民眾如果對於這個稅務案件如果有需要申訴跟說明他透過納保官來做處理但是有一些裁量的空間你較輕較重第4條也就是說對於這個\n\n33\n00:11:13,224 --> 00:11:40,247\n財量的部分因為有一個第4點的部分可以有一個財量加重或者更為減輕這個部分其實目前來說也都有做包含有像在111年大概有適用的有到4天部長你們好幾個案例你們都敗訴行政法院派你們就是說你們應該去朝向去朝向去考量個人的狀況所以你有一些財量權好不好我提醒你這第4條還是要用謝謝委員的提醒謝謝\n\n34\n00:11:41,690 --> 00:11:43,203\n謝謝燕秀委員接著我們請羅明財委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5834\t9541\t好,感謝周二位,可不可以請部長還有負稅署署長,還有國有財產署\n16983\t27425\t委員好部長好我想媒體很多國人都非常關心這個很多稅務的規劃的議題那我想請問一下部長那新聞上我有看到有關我們遺產稅跟這個他後續的跟正義稅他後續的急劇因為從上一次我們修正是2017年那其實這幾年大家都知道物價指數調整的非常非常多\n44730\t67988\t在這一塊雖然部分新聞我已經看到包括消費者的物價指數比上一次我們調整的時候其實差距已經累積高達10%以上了那雖然部分的媒體我有看到有一些報導的數字但是已經10月底了那到底我要請問一下部長到底我們什麼時候會公佈完整的級距跟數字\n69884\t83874\t對,跟委員報告對於課稅級距的金額的CPI的上漲程度超過10%了對,早就應該調了嘛,對不對?對,12.42%所以呢,我們在今年年底以前就會公告明年所適用的一個課稅級距的金額\n84975\t102967\t市長,有沒有可能再提早一點?因為媒體有沒有已經看到部分的資訊了?我的意思是說,因為你到年底那種明年人家來不及去做稅務的規劃,要做證語的話,就來不及去規劃,所以我已經看到媒體有部分,所以有沒有可能再提早一點?因為現在已經10月了嘛,11月了吧?\n104062\t108926\t我們在一個月以內就來做公告,好嗎?好,謝謝部長。包括不計預算總額、扣除額這些,其實現在物價真的調得非常多。所以我覺得有機會,當然這是兩件不同的事情。\n122296\t123217\t目前是在法律稅規定說要超過累計超過10%\n142402\t171309\t才會去做調整那上一次在112年已經還有113年也都做過調整了對我知道每一個每一個項目調整的時間不同所以要去看他累計的我知道我知道你們有一定的標準但是現在時空環境物價這幾年大家面臨的挑戰又不一樣所以我在想說這一塊我覺得你們當然有有有有一定的調整的一個一個一個時間點跟集聚達到但是我覺得那個整個都要\n172554\t176843\t平現在的大環境時空我覺得再去做進一步的考量可不可以\n179607\t200063\t謝謝部長接下來部長有一個議題我先把國有財產署問完署長因為國有財產署閒置的土地非常非常的多我地方常常在辦會堪譬如說颱風天如果是私人土地山坡地速打下來倒下來不小心打到人所有權人有責任要去做賠償對不對\n202825\t231272\t你的土地也不少,樹長得也很多我常常颱風前要去會刊地方政府說這個是中央的沒有錢來去做處理所以我覺得無論是你現在國有財產署閒置的土地要不要去做活用或要不要去做什麼樣的管理或者是野草長得亂七八糟的我覺得那個都要有足夠的經費然後要有人去做巡視跟檢視\n233157\t240092\t否則你就乾脆就是閒置的土地你看地方要不要用怎麼樣去做活用跟各縣市全國有一個更好的計畫來去做進行\n243694\t269216\t你清楚我今天議題很多我就不要占用這個時間我是做這樣子的提醒我簡單跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛講的如果可以跟地方政府像村里長可以做認養綠美化的部分我覺得你那個誘因要夠啦你給里長多一個這樣的規定譬如說停車假設停車是大家的需求或者是做種樹種什麼樣的是大家的需求\n269696\t293127\t我覺得你應該多一點的彈性給對方更多的用意去做處理否則這一次我覺得樹倒下來從你國有財產署的土地也不少我們也知道委員剛剛的情形所以從去年開始我們寫了一個中長城計畫那就是整個環境的清理所以這一次颱風完之後環境的清理然後預算你要有一點錢去處理現在地方也沒什麼經費\n295728\t309318\t6都可能還好其實各縣是很辛苦所以你這個經費一定要編的足夠好我就時間不讓你時間到這邊再提就好我要做這樣的提議我希望這一次我主決議裡面一定會提部長你清楚我的意思我覺得這個是有必要要做否則颱風來速打到人\n311579\t331766\t我前面去會堪地方都跟我講沒錢這是中央的事情然後你地方經費又不足所以這個我提醒做出去那第二個你們兩位請回第二個部長我要請問一下就是說最近健保署當然我們健保的費用其實很多都要撥補臺電也要跟你要錢營業稅也要要錢健保署提了一個構想就是說未來的營業稅我們的消費稅可不可以做財源性的撥補\n340670\t341739\t你的看法到底是什麼?\n343544\t371643\t跟委員報告營業稅目前基本的稅率就是5%是法定稅率我知道但是健保署提出來這樣的建議就可以做健保的固定的比例來做支援你的看法是什麼營業稅的調整涉及到有關實質租稅的負擔我清楚部長我時間很長你直接你的看法是同意還不同意支持還是不支持另外也要跟委員報告在財政紀律法裡面有規定\n373924\t395765\t當然財政紀律法它要統收統資然後不得增加比例也不得成立基金的專管專用對 這個你我都知道我想石署長他其實是為了健保的一個更好的永續所以他有一些意見那這個部分我們也會去跟他溝通包含財紀法的規定跟營業稅率的一些調整那類似這樣的想法部長 類似這樣的想法\n400250\t410419\t院理包括中太院長或者是高層的更高層長有沒有去做過溝通?有沒有曾經做過溝通?院長有沒有關心過類似這樣的事情?因為健保的錢財務狀況當然也非常的辛苦所以有沒有做過類似的溝通?\n427672\t447646\t這個部分因為涉及到健保署的業務跟衛福部的業務而我們沒有去參與這樣的會議這樣子所以院裡面都沒有人跟你做過溝通這件事情沒有純粹是衛福部內部的想法我想我們會跟衛福部這邊再做一次溝通對\n449062\t449242\t委員會主席\n465165\t465345\t委員會主席\n485862\t486002\t主席主席\n501421\t522932\t因為時間有限我要問一下有關於課稅的制度要怎麼去做調整部長現在所有的民間包括跟稅務制度相關的一些議題就是說很多民眾他仍舊願意花很多的時間跟成本去進行有關於課稅的一些稅務的訴訟你知道原因是為什麼嗎\n524761\t540910\t因為但是行政訴訟的案件有一半都是稅務的案件那其實稅務的案件它的勝訴率其實非常的低但是民眾仍舊願意花時間成本去做稅務的訴訟你知道原因是什麼嗎?\n543573\t568825\t民眾申請提出這個訴訟是民眾的一個權益他們可以提出來了對但是他的救濟的途徑也很多但是民眾覺得有一些在法律的制定的過程當中其實很多民眾他的目的不是要逃稅他覺得他的目的可能有很多不同的原因但是稅務法規非常多多如牛毛所以很多情況\n570026\t593861\t很多時候他們也不知道哪些是必須要申報的或者是有時候他們收到了罰單之後才知道說這個應該要罰稅但是他也願意補繳我也關注到就是說在行政法裡面行政法院裡面他們也提到就是說好幾個案例他也提到就是說包括稅政機關對於具體的個案他也提醒你們說必須有一些你看到有一些是這個財閥有一些是違章情形叫輕者\n598704\t601730\t其實你們有一些裁量空間可以去處理\n604396\t631028\t但是你們這樣子第4條裡面你們很少去用到這樣子的法規就是說其實行政法院也要提醒你們有好幾個案例就是考量納稅人的行為嚴重程度還有背後可能有不同的原因不能只看漏報後面如果有補繳那後面就讓他補繳但是後面有裁罰有一些裁罰事實上要看他的狀況來去做調整否則的話你們就是行政怠惰\n632949\t643385\t我覺得第4條是可以適用但是有時候我開協調會他們有時候是不知道要繳但他們願意繳逃漏的部分但是你們是加倍加重的懲處\n645692\t668322\t我覺得政府的目的不是要透過罰款來賺錢是要提醒是 謝謝委員我想剛剛委員提到就是說行政訴訟的部分因為現在我們就有設置納保官所以民眾如果對於這個稅務案件如果有需要申訴跟說明他透過納保官來做處理但是有一些裁量的空間你較輕較重第4條也就是說對於這個\n673224\t700247\t財量的部分因為有一個第4點的部分可以有一個財量加重或者更為減輕這個部分其實目前來說也都有做包含有像在111年大概有適用的有到4天部長你們好幾個案例你們都敗訴行政法院派你們就是說你們應該去朝向去朝向去考量個人的狀況所以你有一些財量權好不好我提醒你這第4條還是要用謝謝委員的提醒謝謝\n701690\t703203\t謝謝燕秀委員接著我們請羅明財委員\n","txt":"好,感謝周二位,可不可以請部長還有負稅署署長,還有國有財產署\n委員好部長好我想媒體很多國人都非常關心這個很多稅務的規劃的議題那我想請問一下部長那新聞上我有看到有關我們遺產稅跟這個他後續的跟正義稅他後續的急劇因為從上一次我們修正是2017年那其實這幾年大家都知道物價指數調整的非常非常多\n在這一塊雖然部分新聞我已經看到包括消費者的物價指數比上一次我們調整的時候其實差距已經累積高達10%以上了那雖然部分的媒體我有看到有一些報導的數字但是已經10月底了那到底我要請問一下部長到底我們什麼時候會公佈完整的級距跟數字\n對,跟委員報告對於課稅級距的金額的CPI的上漲程度超過10%了對,早就應該調了嘛,對不對?對,12.42%所以呢,我們在今年年底以前就會公告明年所適用的一個課稅級距的金額\n市長,有沒有可能再提早一點?因為媒體有沒有已經看到部分的資訊了?我的意思是說,因為你到年底那種明年人家來不及去做稅務的規劃,要做證語的話,就來不及去規劃,所以我已經看到媒體有部分,所以有沒有可能再提早一點?因為現在已經10月了嘛,11月了吧?\n我們在一個月以內就來做公告,好嗎?好,謝謝部長。包括不計預算總額、扣除額這些,其實現在物價真的調得非常多。所以我覺得有機會,當然這是兩件不同的事情。\n目前是在法律稅規定說要超過累計超過10%\n才會去做調整那上一次在112年已經還有113年也都做過調整了對我知道每一個每一個項目調整的時間不同所以要去看他累計的我知道我知道你們有一定的標準但是現在時空環境物價這幾年大家面臨的挑戰又不一樣所以我在想說這一塊我覺得你們當然有有有有一定的調整的一個一個一個時間點跟集聚達到但是我覺得那個整個都要\n平現在的大環境時空我覺得再去做進一步的考量可不可以\n謝謝部長接下來部長有一個議題我先把國有財產署問完署長因為國有財產署閒置的土地非常非常的多我地方常常在辦會堪譬如說颱風天如果是私人土地山坡地速打下來倒下來不小心打到人所有權人有責任要去做賠償對不對\n你的土地也不少,樹長得也很多我常常颱風前要去會刊地方政府說這個是中央的沒有錢來去做處理所以我覺得無論是你現在國有財產署閒置的土地要不要去做活用或要不要去做什麼樣的管理或者是野草長得亂七八糟的我覺得那個都要有足夠的經費然後要有人去做巡視跟檢視\n否則你就乾脆就是閒置的土地你看地方要不要用怎麼樣去做活用跟各縣市全國有一個更好的計畫來去做進行\n你清楚我今天議題很多我就不要占用這個時間我是做這樣子的提醒我簡單跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛講的如果可以跟地方政府像村里長可以做認養綠美化的部分我覺得你那個誘因要夠啦你給里長多一個這樣的規定譬如說停車假設停車是大家的需求或者是做種樹種什麼樣的是大家的需求\n我覺得你應該多一點的彈性給對方更多的用意去做處理否則這一次我覺得樹倒下來從你國有財產署的土地也不少我們也知道委員剛剛的情形所以從去年開始我們寫了一個中長城計畫那就是整個環境的清理所以這一次颱風完之後環境的清理然後預算你要有一點錢去處理現在地方也沒什麼經費\n6都可能還好其實各縣是很辛苦所以你這個經費一定要編的足夠好我就時間不讓你時間到這邊再提就好我要做這樣的提議我希望這一次我主決議裡面一定會提部長你清楚我的意思我覺得這個是有必要要做否則颱風來速打到人\n我前面去會堪地方都跟我講沒錢這是中央的事情然後你地方經費又不足所以這個我提醒做出去那第二個你們兩位請回第二個部長我要請問一下就是說最近健保署當然我們健保的費用其實很多都要撥補臺電也要跟你要錢營業稅也要要錢健保署提了一個構想就是說未來的營業稅我們的消費稅可不可以做財源性的撥補\n你的看法到底是什麼?\n跟委員報告營業稅目前基本的稅率就是5%是法定稅率我知道但是健保署提出來這樣的建議就可以做健保的固定的比例來做支援你的看法是什麼營業稅的調整涉及到有關實質租稅的負擔我清楚部長我時間很長你直接你的看法是同意還不同意支持還是不支持另外也要跟委員報告在財政紀律法裡面有規定\n當然財政紀律法它要統收統資然後不得增加比例也不得成立基金的專管專用對 這個你我都知道我想石署長他其實是為了健保的一個更好的永續所以他有一些意見那這個部分我們也會去跟他溝通包含財紀法的規定跟營業稅率的一些調整那類似這樣的想法部長 類似這樣的想法\n院理包括中太院長或者是高層的更高層長有沒有去做過溝通?有沒有曾經做過溝通?院長有沒有關心過類似這樣的事情?因為健保的錢財務狀況當然也非常的辛苦所以有沒有做過類似的溝通?\n這個部分因為涉及到健保署的業務跟衛福部的業務而我們沒有去參與這樣的會議這樣子所以院裡面都沒有人跟你做過溝通這件事情沒有純粹是衛福部內部的想法我想我們會跟衛福部這邊再做一次溝通對\n委員會主席\n委員會主席\n主席主席\n因為時間有限我要問一下有關於課稅的制度要怎麼去做調整部長現在所有的民間包括跟稅務制度相關的一些議題就是說很多民眾他仍舊願意花很多的時間跟成本去進行有關於課稅的一些稅務的訴訟你知道原因是為什麼嗎\n因為但是行政訴訟的案件有一半都是稅務的案件那其實稅務的案件它的勝訴率其實非常的低但是民眾仍舊願意花時間成本去做稅務的訴訟你知道原因是什麼嗎?\n民眾申請提出這個訴訟是民眾的一個權益他們可以提出來了對但是他的救濟的途徑也很多但是民眾覺得有一些在法律的制定的過程當中其實很多民眾他的目的不是要逃稅他覺得他的目的可能有很多不同的原因但是稅務法規非常多多如牛毛所以很多情況\n很多時候他們也不知道哪些是必須要申報的或者是有時候他們收到了罰單之後才知道說這個應該要罰稅但是他也願意補繳我也關注到就是說在行政法裡面行政法院裡面他們也提到就是說好幾個案例他也提到就是說包括稅政機關對於具體的個案他也提醒你們說必須有一些你看到有一些是這個財閥有一些是違章情形叫輕者\n其實你們有一些裁量空間可以去處理\n但是你們這樣子第4條裡面你們很少去用到這樣子的法規就是說其實行政法院也要提醒你們有好幾個案例就是考量納稅人的行為嚴重程度還有背後可能有不同的原因不能只看漏報後面如果有補繳那後面就讓他補繳但是後面有裁罰有一些裁罰事實上要看他的狀況來去做調整否則的話你們就是行政怠惰\n我覺得第4條是可以適用但是有時候我開協調會他們有時候是不知道要繳但他們願意繳逃漏的部分但是你們是加倍加重的懲處\n我覺得政府的目的不是要透過罰款來賺錢是要提醒是 謝謝委員我想剛剛委員提到就是說行政訴訟的部分因為現在我們就有設置納保官所以民眾如果對於這個稅務案件如果有需要申訴跟說明他透過納保官來做處理但是有一些裁量的空間你較輕較重第4條也就是說對於這個\n財量的部分因為有一個第4點的部分可以有一個財量加重或者更為減輕這個部分其實目前來說也都有做包含有像在111年大概有適用的有到4天部長你們好幾個案例你們都敗訴行政法院派你們就是說你們應該去朝向去朝向去考量個人的狀況所以你有一些財量權好不好我提醒你這第4條還是要用謝謝委員的提醒謝謝\n謝謝燕秀委員接著我們請羅明財委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.834 --> 00:09.541\n好,感謝周二位,可不可以請部長還有負稅署署長,還有國有財產署\n\n00:16.983 --> 00:27.425\n委員好部長好我想媒體很多國人都非常關心這個很多稅務的規劃的議題那我想請問一下部長那新聞上我有看到有關我們遺產稅跟這個他後續的跟正義稅他後續的急劇因為從上一次我們修正是2017年那其實這幾年大家都知道物價指數調整的非常非常多\n\n00:44.730 --> 01:07.988\n在這一塊雖然部分新聞我已經看到包括消費者的物價指數比上一次我們調整的時候其實差距已經累積高達10%以上了那雖然部分的媒體我有看到有一些報導的數字但是已經10月底了那到底我要請問一下部長到底我們什麼時候會公佈完整的級距跟數字\n\n01:09.884 --> 01:23.874\n對,跟委員報告對於課稅級距的金額的CPI的上漲程度超過10%了對,早就應該調了嘛,對不對?對,12.42%所以呢,我們在今年年底以前就會公告明年所適用的一個課稅級距的金額\n\n01:24.975 --> 01:42.967\n市長,有沒有可能再提早一點?因為媒體有沒有已經看到部分的資訊了?我的意思是說,因為你到年底那種明年人家來不及去做稅務的規劃,要做證語的話,就來不及去規劃,所以我已經看到媒體有部分,所以有沒有可能再提早一點?因為現在已經10月了嘛,11月了吧?\n\n01:44.062 --> 01:48.926\n我們在一個月以內就來做公告,好嗎?好,謝謝部長。包括不計預算總額、扣除額這些,其實現在物價真的調得非常多。所以我覺得有機會,當然這是兩件不同的事情。\n\n02:02.296 --> 02:03.217\n目前是在法律稅規定說要超過累計超過10%\n\n02:22.402 --> 02:51.309\n才會去做調整那上一次在112年已經還有113年也都做過調整了對我知道每一個每一個項目調整的時間不同所以要去看他累計的我知道我知道你們有一定的標準但是現在時空環境物價這幾年大家面臨的挑戰又不一樣所以我在想說這一塊我覺得你們當然有有有有一定的調整的一個一個一個時間點跟集聚達到但是我覺得那個整個都要\n\n02:52.554 --> 02:56.843\n平現在的大環境時空我覺得再去做進一步的考量可不可以\n\n02:59.607 --> 03:20.063\n謝謝部長接下來部長有一個議題我先把國有財產署問完署長因為國有財產署閒置的土地非常非常的多我地方常常在辦會堪譬如說颱風天如果是私人土地山坡地速打下來倒下來不小心打到人所有權人有責任要去做賠償對不對\n\n03:22.825 --> 03:51.272\n你的土地也不少,樹長得也很多我常常颱風前要去會刊地方政府說這個是中央的沒有錢來去做處理所以我覺得無論是你現在國有財產署閒置的土地要不要去做活用或要不要去做什麼樣的管理或者是野草長得亂七八糟的我覺得那個都要有足夠的經費然後要有人去做巡視跟檢視\n\n03:53.157 --> 04:00.092\n否則你就乾脆就是閒置的土地你看地方要不要用怎麼樣去做活用跟各縣市全國有一個更好的計畫來去做進行\n\n04:03.694 --> 04:29.216\n你清楚我今天議題很多我就不要占用這個時間我是做這樣子的提醒我簡單跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛講的如果可以跟地方政府像村里長可以做認養綠美化的部分我覺得你那個誘因要夠啦你給里長多一個這樣的規定譬如說停車假設停車是大家的需求或者是做種樹種什麼樣的是大家的需求\n\n04:29.696 --> 04:53.127\n我覺得你應該多一點的彈性給對方更多的用意去做處理否則這一次我覺得樹倒下來從你國有財產署的土地也不少我們也知道委員剛剛的情形所以從去年開始我們寫了一個中長城計畫那就是整個環境的清理所以這一次颱風完之後環境的清理然後預算你要有一點錢去處理現在地方也沒什麼經費\n\n04:55.728 --> 05:09.318\n6都可能還好其實各縣是很辛苦所以你這個經費一定要編的足夠好我就時間不讓你時間到這邊再提就好我要做這樣的提議我希望這一次我主決議裡面一定會提部長你清楚我的意思我覺得這個是有必要要做否則颱風來速打到人\n\n05:11.579 --> 05:31.766\n我前面去會堪地方都跟我講沒錢這是中央的事情然後你地方經費又不足所以這個我提醒做出去那第二個你們兩位請回第二個部長我要請問一下就是說最近健保署當然我們健保的費用其實很多都要撥補臺電也要跟你要錢營業稅也要要錢健保署提了一個構想就是說未來的營業稅我們的消費稅可不可以做財源性的撥補\n\n05:40.670 --> 05:41.739\n你的看法到底是什麼?\n\n05:43.544 --> 06:11.643\n跟委員報告營業稅目前基本的稅率就是5%是法定稅率我知道但是健保署提出來這樣的建議就可以做健保的固定的比例來做支援你的看法是什麼營業稅的調整涉及到有關實質租稅的負擔我清楚部長我時間很長你直接你的看法是同意還不同意支持還是不支持另外也要跟委員報告在財政紀律法裡面有規定\n\n06:13.924 --> 06:35.765\n當然財政紀律法它要統收統資然後不得增加比例也不得成立基金的專管專用對這個你我都知道我想石署長他其實是為了健保的一個更好的永續所以他有一些意見那這個部分我們也會去跟他溝通包含財紀法的規定跟營業稅率的一些調整那類似這樣的想法部長類似這樣的想法\n\n06:40.250 --> 06:50.419\n院理包括中太院長或者是高層的更高層長有沒有去做過溝通?有沒有曾經做過溝通?院長有沒有關心過類似這樣的事情?因為健保的錢財務狀況當然也非常的辛苦所以有沒有做過類似的溝通?\n\n07:07.672 --> 07:27.646\n這個部分因為涉及到健保署的業務跟衛福部的業務而我們沒有去參與這樣的會議這樣子所以院裡面都沒有人跟你做過溝通這件事情沒有純粹是衛福部內部的想法我想我們會跟衛福部這邊再做一次溝通對\n\n07:29.062 --> 07:29.242\n委員會主席\n\n07:45.165 --> 07:45.345\n委員會主席\n\n08:05.862 --> 08:06.002\n主席主席\n\n08:21.421 --> 08:42.932\n因為時間有限我要問一下有關於課稅的制度要怎麼去做調整部長現在所有的民間包括跟稅務制度相關的一些議題就是說很多民眾他仍舊願意花很多的時間跟成本去進行有關於課稅的一些稅務的訴訟你知道原因是為什麼嗎\n\n08:44.761 --> 09:00.910\n因為但是行政訴訟的案件有一半都是稅務的案件那其實稅務的案件它的勝訴率其實非常的低但是民眾仍舊願意花時間成本去做稅務的訴訟你知道原因是什麼嗎?\n\n09:03.573 --> 09:28.825\n民眾申請提出這個訴訟是民眾的一個權益他們可以提出來了對但是他的救濟的途徑也很多但是民眾覺得有一些在法律的制定的過程當中其實很多民眾他的目的不是要逃稅他覺得他的目的可能有很多不同的原因但是稅務法規非常多多如牛毛所以很多情況\n\n09:30.026 --> 09:53.861\n很多時候他們也不知道哪些是必須要申報的或者是有時候他們收到了罰單之後才知道說這個應該要罰稅但是他也願意補繳我也關注到就是說在行政法裡面行政法院裡面他們也提到就是說好幾個案例他也提到就是說包括稅政機關對於具體的個案他也提醒你們說必須有一些你看到有一些是這個財閥有一些是違章情形叫輕者\n\n09:58.704 --> 10:01.730\n其實你們有一些裁量空間可以去處理\n\n10:04.396 --> 10:31.028\n但是你們這樣子第4條裡面你們很少去用到這樣子的法規就是說其實行政法院也要提醒你們有好幾個案例就是考量納稅人的行為嚴重程度還有背後可能有不同的原因不能只看漏報後面如果有補繳那後面就讓他補繳但是後面有裁罰有一些裁罰事實上要看他的狀況來去做調整否則的話你們就是行政怠惰\n\n10:32.949 --> 10:43.385\n我覺得第4條是可以適用但是有時候我開協調會他們有時候是不知道要繳但他們願意繳逃漏的部分但是你們是加倍加重的懲處\n\n10:45.692 --> 11:08.322\n我覺得政府的目的不是要透過罰款來賺錢是要提醒是謝謝委員我想剛剛委員提到就是說行政訴訟的部分因為現在我們就有設置納保官所以民眾如果對於這個稅務案件如果有需要申訴跟說明他透過納保官來做處理但是有一些裁量的空間你較輕較重第4條也就是說對於這個\n\n11:13.224 --> 11:40.247\n財量的部分因為有一個第4點的部分可以有一個財量加重或者更為減輕這個部分其實目前來說也都有做包含有像在111年大概有適用的有到4天部長你們好幾個案例你們都敗訴行政法院派你們就是說你們應該去朝向去朝向去考量個人的狀況所以你有一些財量權好不好我提醒你這第4條還是要用謝謝委員的提醒謝謝\n\n11:41.690 --> 11:43.203\n謝謝燕秀委員接著我們請羅明財委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.834,"end":9.541,"text":"好,感謝周二位,可不可以請部長還有負稅署署長,還有國有財產署"},{"start":16.983,"end":27.425,"text":"委員好部長好我想媒體很多國人都非常關心這個很多稅務的規劃的議題那我想請問一下部長那新聞上我有看到有關我們遺產稅跟這個他後續的跟正義稅他後續的急劇因為從上一次我們修正是2017年那其實這幾年大家都知道物價指數調整的非常非常多"},{"start":44.73,"end":67.988,"text":"在這一塊雖然部分新聞我已經看到包括消費者的物價指數比上一次我們調整的時候其實差距已經累積高達10%以上了那雖然部分的媒體我有看到有一些報導的數字但是已經10月底了那到底我要請問一下部長到底我們什麼時候會公佈完整的級距跟數字"},{"start":69.884,"end":83.874,"text":"對,跟委員報告對於課稅級距的金額的CPI的上漲程度超過10%了對,早就應該調了嘛,對不對?對,12.42%所以呢,我們在今年年底以前就會公告明年所適用的一個課稅級距的金額"},{"start":84.975,"end":102.967,"text":"市長,有沒有可能再提早一點?因為媒體有沒有已經看到部分的資訊了?我的意思是說,因為你到年底那種明年人家來不及去做稅務的規劃,要做證語的話,就來不及去規劃,所以我已經看到媒體有部分,所以有沒有可能再提早一點?因為現在已經10月了嘛,11月了吧?"},{"start":104.062,"end":108.926,"text":"我們在一個月以內就來做公告,好嗎?好,謝謝部長。包括不計預算總額、扣除額這些,其實現在物價真的調得非常多。所以我覺得有機會,當然這是兩件不同的事情。"},{"start":122.296,"end":123.217,"text":"目前是在法律稅規定說要超過累計超過10%"},{"start":142.402,"end":171.309,"text":"才會去做調整那上一次在112年已經還有113年也都做過調整了對我知道每一個每一個項目調整的時間不同所以要去看他累計的我知道我知道你們有一定的標準但是現在時空環境物價這幾年大家面臨的挑戰又不一樣所以我在想說這一塊我覺得你們當然有有有有一定的調整的一個一個一個時間點跟集聚達到但是我覺得那個整個都要"},{"start":172.554,"end":176.843,"text":"平現在的大環境時空我覺得再去做進一步的考量可不可以"},{"start":179.607,"end":200.063,"text":"謝謝部長接下來部長有一個議題我先把國有財產署問完署長因為國有財產署閒置的土地非常非常的多我地方常常在辦會堪譬如說颱風天如果是私人土地山坡地速打下來倒下來不小心打到人所有權人有責任要去做賠償對不對"},{"start":202.825,"end":231.272,"text":"你的土地也不少,樹長得也很多我常常颱風前要去會刊地方政府說這個是中央的沒有錢來去做處理所以我覺得無論是你現在國有財產署閒置的土地要不要去做活用或要不要去做什麼樣的管理或者是野草長得亂七八糟的我覺得那個都要有足夠的經費然後要有人去做巡視跟檢視"},{"start":233.157,"end":240.092,"text":"否則你就乾脆就是閒置的土地你看地方要不要用怎麼樣去做活用跟各縣市全國有一個更好的計畫來去做進行"},{"start":243.694,"end":269.216,"text":"你清楚我今天議題很多我就不要占用這個時間我是做這樣子的提醒我簡單跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛講的如果可以跟地方政府像村里長可以做認養綠美化的部分我覺得你那個誘因要夠啦你給里長多一個這樣的規定譬如說停車假設停車是大家的需求或者是做種樹種什麼樣的是大家的需求"},{"start":269.696,"end":293.127,"text":"我覺得你應該多一點的彈性給對方更多的用意去做處理否則這一次我覺得樹倒下來從你國有財產署的土地也不少我們也知道委員剛剛的情形所以從去年開始我們寫了一個中長城計畫那就是整個環境的清理所以這一次颱風完之後環境的清理然後預算你要有一點錢去處理現在地方也沒什麼經費"},{"start":295.728,"end":309.318,"text":"6都可能還好其實各縣是很辛苦所以你這個經費一定要編的足夠好我就時間不讓你時間到這邊再提就好我要做這樣的提議我希望這一次我主決議裡面一定會提部長你清楚我的意思我覺得這個是有必要要做否則颱風來速打到人"},{"start":311.579,"end":331.766,"text":"我前面去會堪地方都跟我講沒錢這是中央的事情然後你地方經費又不足所以這個我提醒做出去那第二個你們兩位請回第二個部長我要請問一下就是說最近健保署當然我們健保的費用其實很多都要撥補臺電也要跟你要錢營業稅也要要錢健保署提了一個構想就是說未來的營業稅我們的消費稅可不可以做財源性的撥補"},{"start":340.67,"end":341.739,"text":"你的看法到底是什麼?"},{"start":343.544,"end":371.643,"text":"跟委員報告營業稅目前基本的稅率就是5%是法定稅率我知道但是健保署提出來這樣的建議就可以做健保的固定的比例來做支援你的看法是什麼營業稅的調整涉及到有關實質租稅的負擔我清楚部長我時間很長你直接你的看法是同意還不同意支持還是不支持另外也要跟委員報告在財政紀律法裡面有規定"},{"start":373.924,"end":395.765,"text":"當然財政紀律法它要統收統資然後不得增加比例也不得成立基金的專管專用對 這個你我都知道我想石署長他其實是為了健保的一個更好的永續所以他有一些意見那這個部分我們也會去跟他溝通包含財紀法的規定跟營業稅率的一些調整那類似這樣的想法部長 類似這樣的想法"},{"start":400.25,"end":410.419,"text":"院理包括中太院長或者是高層的更高層長有沒有去做過溝通?有沒有曾經做過溝通?院長有沒有關心過類似這樣的事情?因為健保的錢財務狀況當然也非常的辛苦所以有沒有做過類似的溝通?"},{"start":427.672,"end":447.646,"text":"這個部分因為涉及到健保署的業務跟衛福部的業務而我們沒有去參與這樣的會議這樣子所以院裡面都沒有人跟你做過溝通這件事情沒有純粹是衛福部內部的想法我想我們會跟衛福部這邊再做一次溝通對"},{"start":449.062,"end":449.242,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":465.165,"end":465.345,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":485.862,"end":486.002,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":501.421,"end":522.932,"text":"因為時間有限我要問一下有關於課稅的制度要怎麼去做調整部長現在所有的民間包括跟稅務制度相關的一些議題就是說很多民眾他仍舊願意花很多的時間跟成本去進行有關於課稅的一些稅務的訴訟你知道原因是為什麼嗎"},{"start":524.761,"end":540.91,"text":"因為但是行政訴訟的案件有一半都是稅務的案件那其實稅務的案件它的勝訴率其實非常的低但是民眾仍舊願意花時間成本去做稅務的訴訟你知道原因是什麼嗎?"},{"start":543.573,"end":568.825,"text":"民眾申請提出這個訴訟是民眾的一個權益他們可以提出來了對但是他的救濟的途徑也很多但是民眾覺得有一些在法律的制定的過程當中其實很多民眾他的目的不是要逃稅他覺得他的目的可能有很多不同的原因但是稅務法規非常多多如牛毛所以很多情況"},{"start":570.026,"end":593.861,"text":"很多時候他們也不知道哪些是必須要申報的或者是有時候他們收到了罰單之後才知道說這個應該要罰稅但是他也願意補繳我也關注到就是說在行政法裡面行政法院裡面他們也提到就是說好幾個案例他也提到就是說包括稅政機關對於具體的個案他也提醒你們說必須有一些你看到有一些是這個財閥有一些是違章情形叫輕者"},{"start":598.704,"end":601.73,"text":"其實你們有一些裁量空間可以去處理"},{"start":604.396,"end":631.028,"text":"但是你們這樣子第4條裡面你們很少去用到這樣子的法規就是說其實行政法院也要提醒你們有好幾個案例就是考量納稅人的行為嚴重程度還有背後可能有不同的原因不能只看漏報後面如果有補繳那後面就讓他補繳但是後面有裁罰有一些裁罰事實上要看他的狀況來去做調整否則的話你們就是行政怠惰"},{"start":632.949,"end":643.385,"text":"我覺得第4條是可以適用但是有時候我開協調會他們有時候是不知道要繳但他們願意繳逃漏的部分但是你們是加倍加重的懲處"},{"start":645.692,"end":668.322,"text":"我覺得政府的目的不是要透過罰款來賺錢是要提醒是 謝謝委員我想剛剛委員提到就是說行政訴訟的部分因為現在我們就有設置納保官所以民眾如果對於這個稅務案件如果有需要申訴跟說明他透過納保官來做處理但是有一些裁量的空間你較輕較重第4條也就是說對於這個"},{"start":673.224,"end":700.247,"text":"財量的部分因為有一個第4點的部分可以有一個財量加重或者更為減輕這個部分其實目前來說也都有做包含有像在111年大概有適用的有到4天部長你們好幾個案例你們都敗訴行政法院派你們就是說你們應該去朝向去朝向去考量個人的狀況所以你有一些財量權好不好我提醒你這第4條還是要用謝謝委員的提醒謝謝"},{"start":701.69,"end":703.203,"text":"謝謝燕秀委員接著我們請羅明財委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":758,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（11時3分）感謝召委，可不可以請部長還有賦稅署署長？"],["主席：莊部長、宋署長。"],["李委員彥秀：還有國有財產署。"],["主席：曾署長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：部長好。媒體和很多國人都非常關心稅務規劃的議題，我想請問一下部長，當然新聞上我有看到，有關於遺產稅跟贈與稅後續的級距，因為上一次我們修正是2017年，其實這幾年大家都知道物價指數調整得非常非常多，在這一塊，雖然部分新聞我已經看到，包括消費者的物價指數比上一次我們調整的時候，其實差距已經累積高達10%以上了，雖然我有看到部分的媒體有一些報導的數字，但是已經10月底了，我要請問一下部長，到底我們什麼時候會公布完整的級距跟數字？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，對於課稅級距金額CPI的上漲程度超過10%了……"],["李委員彥秀：對，早就應該調了嘛！對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：達到12.42%，所以我們在今年年底以前，就會公告明年所適用的課稅級距的金額，應該就在這個月……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，有沒有可能再提早一點？因為我已經看到媒體部分的資訊了，我的意思是說因為你到年底才公布，人家來不及去做明年的稅務規劃，要做贈與的話就來不及去規劃，我已經看到媒體部分……所以有沒有可能再提前？因為現在已經11月了嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們在1個月以內就來做公告好嗎？謝謝委員。"],["李委員彥秀：好，謝謝部長，包括不計入遺產總額、扣除額這些，其實現在物價真的調得非常多，所以我覺得有機會，當然這是兩件不同的事情。部長，你了解我的意思，我覺得要苦民所苦，應該再一次去檢視這些到底有沒有討論調整的可能跟空間，這一塊我們是不是可以一併做討論？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前是法律規定要累計超過10%才會去做調整，上一次在112年還有113年也都做過調整了。"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，但這幾年……"],["莊部長翠雲：因為每一個項目調整的時間不同，所以要去看它累計的CPI……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道你們有一定的標準，但是現在時空、環境、物價，這幾年大家面臨的挑戰又不一樣，所以我在想說這一塊，我覺得你們當然有一定的調整時間點跟級距達到，但是我覺得整個都要憑現在的大環境、時空，再去做進一步的考量，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝部長。部長，接下來有一個議題……我先把國有財產署問完，署長，因為國有財產署閒置的土地非常非常的多，我在地方常常在辦會勘，譬如說颱風天如果是私人土地，山坡地樹倒下來不小心打到人，所有權人有責任要去做賠償，對不對？"],["曾署長國基：是。"],["李委員彥秀：你的土地也不少，樹長得也很多，我常常颱風前要去會勘，地方政府說這個是中央的，沒有錢來做處理，所以我覺得無論是現在國有財產署閒置的土地要不要去做活用，或要不要去做什麼樣的管理，或者是野草長得亂七八糟的，我覺得都要有足夠的經費，然後要有人去做巡視跟檢視，否則閒置的土地你乾脆就看地方要不要用、怎麼樣去做活用，跟全國各縣市有一個更好的計畫來去做進行，署長，你清楚我的意思，因為今天議題很多，我就不要占用這個時間，我是做這樣子的提醒。"],["曾署長國基：我簡單跟委員報告，第一個，就是剛剛講的，如果可以跟地方政府，像村里長可以做認養、綠美化的部分，我們都有機制。"],["李委員彥秀：我覺得你的誘因要夠。"],["曾署長國基：第二個就是……"],["李委員彥秀：你給里長多一個這樣的……譬如說停車，假設停車是大家的需求……"],["曾署長國基：對，可以做停車場或者是小公園。"],["李委員彥秀：或者種樹、種什麼是大家的需求，我覺得你應該多一點彈性，給地方更多的誘因去做處理。"],["曾署長國基：有，我們都有相關的機制。"],["李委員彥秀：否則我覺得這一次樹倒下來，國產署的土地也不少。"],["曾署長國基：也跟委員報告，我們也知道委員剛剛說的情形，所以從去年開始，我們寫了一個中長程計畫，就是整個環境的清理，所以這一次颱風完之後……"],["李委員彥秀：環境的清理，然後預算，你要有一點錢去處理……"],["曾署長國基：有、有、有……"],["李委員彥秀：不然現在地方也沒什麼經費，六都可能還好，其實各縣市很辛苦，所以你這個經費一定要編得足夠，好，我就不浪費時間……"],["曾署長國基：謝謝委員的支持，也希望委員支持預算，謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：我就做這樣的提醒，這一次我主決議裡面一定會提，部長，你清楚我的意思，我覺得這個是有必要做，否則颱風來，樹打到人……我前面去會勘，地方都跟我講沒錢，這是中央的事情，然後地方經費又不足，所以我提醒這個部分。","第二個，部長，我要請問一下，最近健保署……當然我們健保的費用其實很多都要撥補，台電也要跟你要錢、營業稅也要要錢，健保署提了一個構想，未來的營業稅、消費稅可不可以做財源性的撥補，你的看法到底是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，營業稅目前基本的稅率就是5%，是法定稅率……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，但是健保署提出來這樣的建議，可以有固定的比例來做健保的支援，你的看法是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：營業稅的調整涉及到有關實質租稅的負擔，然後物價水準、經濟發展……"],["李委員彥秀：我清楚，部長，我時間很少，你直接說你的看法是同意還是不同意、支持還是不支持？"],["莊部長翠雲：另外，也要跟委員報告，在財政紀律法裡面有規定，財政紀律法……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，對，我知道，當然財政紀律法要統收、統支，然後不得增加比例，也不得成立基金的專款專用……"],["莊部長翠雲：做比率的保障等等都不行。"],["李委員彥秀：對，這個你我都知道。"],["莊部長翠雲：我想石署長，他其實是為了健保一個更好的永續，所以有一些意見，這個部分我們也會去跟他溝通，包含財紀法的規定，跟營業稅率的一些調整來通盤考量。"],["李委員彥秀：是，部長，類似這樣的想法，院裡包括卓榮泰院長或者更高層，有沒有去做過溝通？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分，我們會先……"],["李委員彥秀：有沒有曾經做過溝通？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們會先跟健保署再去溝通，告訴它財紀法的相關規定以及營業稅稅率這些規定……"],["李委員彥秀：那院長有沒有關心過類似這樣的事情，因為健保的錢、財務狀況，當然也非常的辛苦，有沒有做過類似的溝通？否則健保署怎麼會提出這樣的想法？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分因為涉及到健保署跟衛福部的業務，我們沒有去參與這樣的會議。"],["李委員彥秀：所以院裡面都沒有人跟你做過溝通，就這件事情，沒有？純粹是衛福部內部的想法？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想我們會跟衛福部再做一次溝通。"],["李委員彥秀：那你贊不贊成？你不支持嘛，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是，這個部分要整體的考量，而且有財紀法的相關規定。"],["李委員彥秀：整體作為，所以你沒有排除，但是部長我也要提醒……"],["莊部長翠雲：我不是剛剛有跟您報告，因為營業稅的調整涉及到的層面很廣，所以要審慎評估。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，這我知道，但是譬如說在金融營業基金，他們當時也提到可不可以不要調降，剩下來的錢把它納入信保基金，你也說不適合，因為這個是屬於統收統支，而且也不能成立專款專用的部分，你也提出這樣拒絕的形式。所以我也要提醒你，要怎麼去處理我們現在整個統收統支狀況，未來要怎麼活用，其實有一定的處理原則跟方式，因此要怎麼處理，我要提醒這個還是要注意。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["李委員彥秀：然後，另外最後一點，因為時間有限，我要問一下，有關於課稅的制度要怎麼去做調整？部長，現在所有民間，包括跟稅務制度相關的一些議題，很多民眾他仍舊願意花很多的時間跟成本，去進行有關於課稅的一些稅務訴訟，你知道原因是為什麼嗎？行政訴訟的案件有一半都是稅務的案件，其實稅務案件它的勝訴率非常低，民眾仍舊願意花時間成本去做稅務的訴訟，你知道原因是什麼嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：提出訴訟是民眾的權益，他們可以提出來。"],["李委員彥秀：對，他救濟的途徑也很多，但是民眾覺得有一些在法律制定的過程當中，其實民眾的目的很多不是要逃稅，他的目的可能有很多不同的原因，但是稅務法規非常多、多如牛毛，所以很多情況、很多時候他們也不知道哪些是必須要申報的，或者是有時候他們收到了罰單之後才知道說這個應該要罰，但是他也願意補繳。我也關注到在行政法院裡面，他們也提到好幾個案例，包括稅捐稽徵機關對於具體的個案，它也提醒你們必須……你看有一些是裁罰，有一些是違章情形較輕者，其實你們有一些裁量空間可以去處理。但是你們第四點裡面，你們很少去用到這樣子的法規，其實行政法院也要提醒你們有好幾個案例，就是考量納稅人行為的嚴重程度，還有背後可能有不同的原因，不能只看漏報，後面如果有補繳就讓他補繳，但是後面有一些裁罰，是不是要看他的狀況去做調整？否則你們就是行政怠惰。部長你瞭解我意思嗎？我覺得第四點是可以適用，有時候我開協調會，他們有時候是不知道要繳，可是他們願意繳逃漏的部分，你們卻是加倍加重的懲處，我覺得政府的目的不是要透過罰款來賺錢，是要提醒。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員，我想剛剛委員提到行政訴訟的部分，因為現在我們已經有設置納保官，所以民眾對於稅務案件，如果有需要申訴跟說明，可以透過納保官來做處理，所以這個部分案件已經有所減少。"],["李委員彥秀：但是有一些裁量的空間，你較輕、較重，第四點……"],["莊部長翠雲：對，也就是對於裁量，因為第四點有一個可以裁量加重或者更為減輕這個部分，其實目前也都有做，包含像在111年，大概適用的有到三千多件……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你們好幾個案例都敗訴，行政法院判你們應該朝向考量個人的狀況……"],["莊部長翠雲：當然……"],["李委員彥秀：所以你有一些裁量權，好不好？我提醒你第四點還是要用。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的提醒，謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝彥秀委員，接著我們請羅明才委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-9","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","羅明才","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國\n稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預\n算部分暨融資財源調度（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00003"}}}