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{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 418.302, \"end\": 418.462, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 418.462, \"end\": 418.482, \"score\": 0.413}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 418.482, \"end\": 418.682, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 418.682, \"end\": 418.722, \"score\": 0.473}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 418.722, \"end\": 418.962, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"疫\", \"start\": 418.962, \"end\": 419.222, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 419.222, \"end\": 419.382, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 419.382, \"end\": 419.402, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 419.402, \"end\": 419.482, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 419.482, \"end\": 419.502, \"score\": 0.003}]}, {\"start\": 436.073, \"end\": 456.926, \"text\": \"只要有一攤以上的股份的股東就有這個獨立董事的提名權所以你的說法是不正確的嘛所以我要求農業部就這個農業金庫獨立董事可以呢如同台肥或中小企銀一般回到公司法的公司\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 436.073, \"end\": 436.253, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 453.764, \"end\": 454.104, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 454.104, \"end\": 454.264, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 454.264, \"end\": 454.864, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 454.864, \"end\": 455.585, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 455.585, \"end\": 455.805, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 455.805, \"end\": 456.065, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 456.065, \"end\": 456.345, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 456.345, \"end\": 456.605, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 456.605, \"end\": 456.766, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 456.766, \"end\": 456.906, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 456.906, \"end\": 456.926, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 457.526, \"end\": 460.287, \"text\": \"規定,那你可以調整嗎?你願意調整嗎?你也可以修改嗎?你也可以內部修改嗎?你願意修改嗎?為了簽督,為了簽督,是啊,那你為了簽督它更好的運作。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"規\"}, 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00:01:38,717\n只有4成的股權那有6成都是農漁會的錢就是我們全國農漁民的存款那這些農漁會有權在我們農業金庫的董事會發出聲音做出決議嗎?我想喔股東的部分大概分為兩個部分一個是一般的股東那一般的股東會跟股權的結構有做一些\n\n5\n00:01:41,036 --> 00:01:49,183\n此外,獨立董事的部分是由農業部來推薦,但是農業部推薦的部分也有大概兩集,也有一些農會的代表相對的,還有專業人士,因為獨立董事是要專業人士。\n\n6\n00:01:55,888 --> 00:02:08,683\n你們只有40%的股權卻占了三分之二實習的董事董事長也是農業部指派而有六成股權的農漁會\n\n7\n00:02:16,330 --> 00:02:28,641\n農業部在農業金庫根本就是有權無責不可以不顧股東的權益為什麼不顧股東權益呢?你知道農業金庫現在的損益是如何嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:30,442 --> 00:02:35,745\n農業部沒有農業金庫基本上我所知道的部分大概今年是虧損54億是54億虧損累累但六成股權的農運會卻根本沒有辦法在農業金庫的董事會中出聲那最近的一個例子就是中央續產會向農業金庫竊了10億買雞蛋\n\n9\n00:02:59,496 --> 00:03:15,527\n請問續償會有擔保嗎?我想由中央那個農信保來擔保,然後他現在...農信保只有保5億,所以是有5億沒有擔保的,你等於左手通右手。我跟委員報告齁,15億不是借的不還的,他現在已經剩下3年多...中央續償會沒有任何的擔保,僅靠農信保就成...\n\n10\n00:03:21,351 --> 00:03:35,981\n農業金庫搬了10億這個過程是誰同意的?是誰同意的?就是農業金庫的董事會同意的董事會裡面有三分之二實習的董事是你農業部指派的\n\n11\n00:03:36,681 --> 00:03:40,886\n所以你說的這個我知道但是過程有瑕疵啊他可以不用擔保就可以搬錢出去他今天是還了那如果他不還呢農業部要幫他還嗎所以你說的政策目標就是方便這些團體從農業金庫搬錢嗎\n\n12\n00:04:00,245 --> 00:04:07,769\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業\n\n13\n00:04:27,159 --> 00:04:33,244\n你也是被告被傳訊了續產會也有人被交保如果這是一個正常的董事會發現一間公司還沒有成立就可以拿到農業部的單子他們不會覺得有問題嗎?現在農業金庫之所以可以沒有擔保把10億借給續產會問題就出在農業金庫的董事結構\n\n14\n00:04:53,959 --> 00:05:04,624\n根本沒有人可以在董事會裡面起到監督制衡的作用。部長,你覺得有人可以在董事會裡面幫我們的農民監督嗎?我在講,我在講,我在講,農業金庫裡面剛才你講的五席董事全部都是農業部提名。\n\n15\n00:05:17,450 --> 00:05:37,177\n獨立董事主要的義務是在加強企業的內部控制不受利益牽制股東會的時候要勇於發出反對的意見結果這個功能現在完全喪失他就是農業部的上途上途疲倦所以農業部你簡直就是球員兼裁判啊難怪他現在農業金庫會虧損累累啊農業金庫有他的相關的農業金融法\n\n16\n00:05:42,939 --> 00:05:47,443\n所以我現在就建議你我不是只要罵你我也不是只要criticize你我現在是要告訴你說本席認為要讓農業金庫走向正軌應該要依公司法第192之1條的規定\n\n17\n00:06:06,681 --> 00:06:33,619\n讓持有已發行股份總數比例以上股份的股東可以用書面向公司提出讀懂候選人名單而不是用農業部一把抓這樣才能夠保障股東的權益落實公司治理你自己仔細看啊農業金庫它不是一般公開的公司它是依農業金融法它是一個特別法農業金庫存在的目的就是要支持農漁\n\n18\n00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:50,088\n這個農民榆木體系的金融穩定那部長你說他有獨特的政策性任務所以獨董需要由農業部推薦這根本就是錯誤的命題嘛那請問台肥公司是不是也有重要的政策任務\n\n19\n00:06:51,417 --> 00:06:59,502\n臺北市一個公開發行或是公開發行的不一樣這兩個不一樣臺北市港開發行不一樣這兩個是不一樣的你再去問一下經濟部部長、郭部長你去請教他一下嘛中小企營跟農業金庫也是一樣啊他飯工股又有將近30拍啊但是他也是疫情公開發行的\n\n20\n00:07:16,073 --> 00:07:36,926\n只要有一攤以上的股份的股東就有這個獨立董事的提名權所以你的說法是不正確的嘛所以我要求農業部就這個農業金庫獨立董事可以呢如同台肥或中小企銀一般回到公司法的公司\n\n21\n00:07:37,526 --> 00:07:40,287\n規定,那你可以調整嗎?你願意調整嗎?你也可以修改嗎?你也可以內部修改嗎?你願意修改嗎?為了簽督,為了簽督,是啊,那你為了簽督它更好的運作。\n\n22\n00:07:55,595 --> 00:07:55,635\n發言委員：\n\n23\n00:08:14,428 --> 00:08:18,351\n農業金庫現在的運作到底有什麼樣的問題嗎?你可以問所有的農民我們現在農業金庫的貸款哪一個農業金庫是正確的?我們就是站在農民的角色\n\n24\n00:08:37,367 --> 00:08:37,387\n好謝謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n650\t21093\t致詢請張教軍委員主席我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長委員好部長午安應該阿伯伯都邀啦吼\n22312\t27156\t您認為因為農業金庫有重要的政策任務所以現在不適合變更選任制度但本席想要請教您農業金庫的股權結構現在是什麼樣子?\n48453\t72393\t農業部本身大概有將近37、38左右。那民股的部分大概是50幾。所謂民股就是農漁會體系。那將近六成都是農漁會的錢。那農漁會的錢是誰的錢呢?就是農民跟漁民的錢。所以農業部加農業信用保證基金就是飯工補股。\n73234\t98717\t只有4成的股權那有6成都是農漁會的錢就是我們全國農漁民的存款那這些農漁會有權在我們農業金庫的董事會發出聲音做出決議嗎?我想喔股東的部分大概分為兩個部分一個是一般的股東那一般的股東會跟股權的結構有做一些\n101036\t109183\t此外,獨立董事的部分是由農業部來推薦,但是農業部推薦的部分也有大概兩集,也有一些農會的代表相對的,還有專業人士,因為獨立董事是要專業人士。\n115888\t128683\t你們只有40%的股權卻占了三分之二實習的董事董事長也是農業部指派而有六成股權的農漁會\n136330\t148641\t農業部在農業金庫根本就是有權無責不可以不顧股東的權益為什麼不顧股東權益呢?你知道農業金庫現在的損益是如何嗎?\n150442\t155745\t農業部沒有農業金庫基本上我所知道的部分大概今年是虧損54億是54億虧損累累但六成股權的農運會卻根本沒有辦法在農業金庫的董事會中出聲那最近的一個例子就是中央續產會向農業金庫竊了10億買雞蛋\n179496\t195527\t請問續償會有擔保嗎?我想由中央那個農信保來擔保,然後他現在...農信保只有保5億,所以是有5億沒有擔保的,你等於左手通右手。我跟委員報告齁,15億不是借的不還的,他現在已經剩下3年多...中央續償會沒有任何的擔保,僅靠農信保就成...\n201351\t215981\t農業金庫搬了10億這個過程是誰同意的?是誰同意的?就是農業金庫的董事會同意的董事會裡面有三分之二實習的董事是你農業部指派的\n216681\t220886\t所以你說的這個我知道但是過程有瑕疵啊他可以不用擔保就可以搬錢出去他今天是還了那如果他不還呢農業部要幫他還嗎所以你說的政策目標就是方便這些團體從農業金庫搬錢嗎\n240245\t247769\t中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業\n267159\t273244\t你也是被告被傳訊了續產會也有人被交保如果這是一個正常的董事會發現一間公司還沒有成立就可以拿到農業部的單子他們不會覺得有問題嗎?現在農業金庫之所以可以沒有擔保把10億借給續產會問題就出在農業金庫的董事結構\n293959\t304624\t根本沒有人可以在董事會裡面起到監督制衡的作用。部長,你覺得有人可以在董事會裡面幫我們的農民監督嗎?我在講,我在講,我在講,農業金庫裡面剛才你講的五席董事全部都是農業部提名。\n317450\t337177\t獨立董事主要的義務是在加強企業的內部控制不受利益牽制股東會的時候要勇於發出反對的意見結果這個功能現在完全喪失他就是農業部的上途上途疲倦所以農業部你簡直就是球員兼裁判啊難怪他現在農業金庫會虧損累累啊農業金庫有他的相關的農業金融法\n342939\t347443\t所以我現在就建議你我不是只要罵你我也不是只要criticize你我現在是要告訴你說本席認為要讓農業金庫走向正軌應該要依公司法第192之1條的規定\n366681\t393619\t讓持有已發行股份總數比例以上股份的股東可以用書面向公司提出讀懂候選人名單而不是用農業部一把抓這樣才能夠保障股東的權益落實公司治理你自己仔細看啊農業金庫它不是一般公開的公司它是依農業金融法它是一個特別法農業金庫存在的目的就是要支持農漁\n395940\t410088\t這個農民榆木體系的金融穩定那部長你說他有獨特的政策性任務所以獨董需要由農業部推薦這根本就是錯誤的命題嘛那請問台肥公司是不是也有重要的政策任務\n411417\t419502\t臺北市一個公開發行或是公開發行的不一樣這兩個不一樣臺北市港開發行不一樣這兩個是不一樣的你再去問一下經濟部部長、郭部長你去請教他一下嘛中小企營跟農業金庫也是一樣啊他飯工股又有將近30拍啊但是他也是疫情公開發行的\n436073\t456926\t只要有一攤以上的股份的股東就有這個獨立董事的提名權所以你的說法是不正確的嘛所以我要求農業部就這個農業金庫獨立董事可以呢如同台肥或中小企銀一般回到公司法的公司\n457526\t460287\t規定,那你可以調整嗎?你願意調整嗎?你也可以修改嗎?你也可以內部修改嗎?你願意修改嗎?為了簽督,為了簽督,是啊,那你為了簽督它更好的運作。\n475595\t475635\t發言委員：\n494428\t498351\t農業金庫現在的運作到底有什麼樣的問題嗎?你可以問所有的農民我們現在農業金庫的貸款哪一個農業金庫是正確的?我們就是站在農民的角色\n517367\t517387\t好 謝謝 謝謝\n","txt":"致詢請張教軍委員主席我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長委員好部長午安應該阿伯伯都邀啦吼\n您認為因為農業金庫有重要的政策任務所以現在不適合變更選任制度但本席想要請教您農業金庫的股權結構現在是什麼樣子?\n農業部本身大概有將近37、38左右。那民股的部分大概是50幾。所謂民股就是農漁會體系。那將近六成都是農漁會的錢。那農漁會的錢是誰的錢呢?就是農民跟漁民的錢。所以農業部加農業信用保證基金就是飯工補股。\n只有4成的股權那有6成都是農漁會的錢就是我們全國農漁民的存款那這些農漁會有權在我們農業金庫的董事會發出聲音做出決議嗎?我想喔股東的部分大概分為兩個部分一個是一般的股東那一般的股東會跟股權的結構有做一些\n此外,獨立董事的部分是由農業部來推薦,但是農業部推薦的部分也有大概兩集,也有一些農會的代表相對的,還有專業人士,因為獨立董事是要專業人士。\n你們只有40%的股權卻占了三分之二實習的董事董事長也是農業部指派而有六成股權的農漁會\n農業部在農業金庫根本就是有權無責不可以不顧股東的權益為什麼不顧股東權益呢?你知道農業金庫現在的損益是如何嗎?\n農業部沒有農業金庫基本上我所知道的部分大概今年是虧損54億是54億虧損累累但六成股權的農運會卻根本沒有辦法在農業金庫的董事會中出聲那最近的一個例子就是中央續產會向農業金庫竊了10億買雞蛋\n請問續償會有擔保嗎?我想由中央那個農信保來擔保,然後他現在...農信保只有保5億,所以是有5億沒有擔保的,你等於左手通右手。我跟委員報告齁,15億不是借的不還的,他現在已經剩下3年多...中央續償會沒有任何的擔保,僅靠農信保就成...\n農業金庫搬了10億這個過程是誰同意的?是誰同意的?就是農業金庫的董事會同意的董事會裡面有三分之二實習的董事是你農業部指派的\n所以你說的這個我知道但是過程有瑕疵啊他可以不用擔保就可以搬錢出去他今天是還了那如果他不還呢農業部要幫他還嗎所以你說的政策目標就是方便這些團體從農業金庫搬錢嗎\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業\n你也是被告被傳訊了續產會也有人被交保如果這是一個正常的董事會發現一間公司還沒有成立就可以拿到農業部的單子他們不會覺得有問題嗎?現在農業金庫之所以可以沒有擔保把10億借給續產會問題就出在農業金庫的董事結構\n根本沒有人可以在董事會裡面起到監督制衡的作用。部長,你覺得有人可以在董事會裡面幫我們的農民監督嗎?我在講,我在講,我在講,農業金庫裡面剛才你講的五席董事全部都是農業部提名。\n獨立董事主要的義務是在加強企業的內部控制不受利益牽制股東會的時候要勇於發出反對的意見結果這個功能現在完全喪失他就是農業部的上途上途疲倦所以農業部你簡直就是球員兼裁判啊難怪他現在農業金庫會虧損累累啊農業金庫有他的相關的農業金融法\n所以我現在就建議你我不是只要罵你我也不是只要criticize你我現在是要告訴你說本席認為要讓農業金庫走向正軌應該要依公司法第192之1條的規定\n讓持有已發行股份總數比例以上股份的股東可以用書面向公司提出讀懂候選人名單而不是用農業部一把抓這樣才能夠保障股東的權益落實公司治理你自己仔細看啊農業金庫它不是一般公開的公司它是依農業金融法它是一個特別法農業金庫存在的目的就是要支持農漁\n這個農民榆木體系的金融穩定那部長你說他有獨特的政策性任務所以獨董需要由農業部推薦這根本就是錯誤的命題嘛那請問台肥公司是不是也有重要的政策任務\n臺北市一個公開發行或是公開發行的不一樣這兩個不一樣臺北市港開發行不一樣這兩個是不一樣的你再去問一下經濟部部長、郭部長你去請教他一下嘛中小企營跟農業金庫也是一樣啊他飯工股又有將近30拍啊但是他也是疫情公開發行的\n只要有一攤以上的股份的股東就有這個獨立董事的提名權所以你的說法是不正確的嘛所以我要求農業部就這個農業金庫獨立董事可以呢如同台肥或中小企銀一般回到公司法的公司\n規定,那你可以調整嗎?你願意調整嗎?你也可以修改嗎?你也可以內部修改嗎?你願意修改嗎?為了簽督,為了簽督,是啊,那你為了簽督它更好的運作。\n發言委員：\n農業金庫現在的運作到底有什麼樣的問題嗎?你可以問所有的農民我們現在農業金庫的貸款哪一個農業金庫是正確的?我們就是站在農民的角色\n好 謝謝 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.650 --> 00:21.093\n致詢請張教軍委員主席我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長委員好部長午安應該阿伯伯都邀啦吼\n\n00:22.312 --> 00:27.156\n您認為因為農業金庫有重要的政策任務所以現在不適合變更選任制度但本席想要請教您農業金庫的股權結構現在是什麼樣子?\n\n00:48.453 --> 01:12.393\n農業部本身大概有將近37、38左右。那民股的部分大概是50幾。所謂民股就是農漁會體系。那將近六成都是農漁會的錢。那農漁會的錢是誰的錢呢?就是農民跟漁民的錢。所以農業部加農業信用保證基金就是飯工補股。\n\n01:13.234 --> 01:38.717\n只有4成的股權那有6成都是農漁會的錢就是我們全國農漁民的存款那這些農漁會有權在我們農業金庫的董事會發出聲音做出決議嗎?我想喔股東的部分大概分為兩個部分一個是一般的股東那一般的股東會跟股權的結構有做一些\n\n01:41.036 --> 01:49.183\n此外,獨立董事的部分是由農業部來推薦,但是農業部推薦的部分也有大概兩集,也有一些農會的代表相對的,還有專業人士,因為獨立董事是要專業人士。\n\n01:55.888 --> 02:08.683\n你們只有40%的股權卻占了三分之二實習的董事董事長也是農業部指派而有六成股權的農漁會\n\n02:16.330 --> 02:28.641\n農業部在農業金庫根本就是有權無責不可以不顧股東的權益為什麼不顧股東權益呢?你知道農業金庫現在的損益是如何嗎?\n\n02:30.442 --> 02:35.745\n農業部沒有農業金庫基本上我所知道的部分大概今年是虧損54億是54億虧損累累但六成股權的農運會卻根本沒有辦法在農業金庫的董事會中出聲那最近的一個例子就是中央續產會向農業金庫竊了10億買雞蛋\n\n02:59.496 --> 03:15.527\n請問續償會有擔保嗎?我想由中央那個農信保來擔保,然後他現在...農信保只有保5億,所以是有5億沒有擔保的,你等於左手通右手。我跟委員報告齁,15億不是借的不還的,他現在已經剩下3年多...中央續償會沒有任何的擔保,僅靠農信保就成...\n\n03:21.351 --> 03:35.981\n農業金庫搬了10億這個過程是誰同意的?是誰同意的?就是農業金庫的董事會同意的董事會裡面有三分之二實習的董事是你農業部指派的\n\n03:36.681 --> 03:40.886\n所以你說的這個我知道但是過程有瑕疵啊他可以不用擔保就可以搬錢出去他今天是還了那如果他不還呢農業部要幫他還嗎所以你說的政策目標就是方便這些團體從農業金庫搬錢嗎\n\n04:00.245 --> 04:07.769\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業\n\n04:27.159 --> 04:33.244\n你也是被告被傳訊了續產會也有人被交保如果這是一個正常的董事會發現一間公司還沒有成立就可以拿到農業部的單子他們不會覺得有問題嗎?現在農業金庫之所以可以沒有擔保把10億借給續產會問題就出在農業金庫的董事結構\n\n04:53.959 --> 05:04.624\n根本沒有人可以在董事會裡面起到監督制衡的作用。部長,你覺得有人可以在董事會裡面幫我們的農民監督嗎?我在講,我在講,我在講,農業金庫裡面剛才你講的五席董事全部都是農業部提名。\n\n05:17.450 --> 05:37.177\n獨立董事主要的義務是在加強企業的內部控制不受利益牽制股東會的時候要勇於發出反對的意見結果這個功能現在完全喪失他就是農業部的上途上途疲倦所以農業部你簡直就是球員兼裁判啊難怪他現在農業金庫會虧損累累啊農業金庫有他的相關的農業金融法\n\n05:42.939 --> 05:47.443\n所以我現在就建議你我不是只要罵你我也不是只要criticize你我現在是要告訴你說本席認為要讓農業金庫走向正軌應該要依公司法第192之1條的規定\n\n06:06.681 --> 06:33.619\n讓持有已發行股份總數比例以上股份的股東可以用書面向公司提出讀懂候選人名單而不是用農業部一把抓這樣才能夠保障股東的權益落實公司治理你自己仔細看啊農業金庫它不是一般公開的公司它是依農業金融法它是一個特別法農業金庫存在的目的就是要支持農漁\n\n06:35.940 --> 06:50.088\n這個農民榆木體系的金融穩定那部長你說他有獨特的政策性任務所以獨董需要由農業部推薦這根本就是錯誤的命題嘛那請問台肥公司是不是也有重要的政策任務\n\n06:51.417 --> 06:59.502\n臺北市一個公開發行或是公開發行的不一樣這兩個不一樣臺北市港開發行不一樣這兩個是不一樣的你再去問一下經濟部部長、郭部長你去請教他一下嘛中小企營跟農業金庫也是一樣啊他飯工股又有將近30拍啊但是他也是疫情公開發行的\n\n07:16.073 --> 07:36.926\n只要有一攤以上的股份的股東就有這個獨立董事的提名權所以你的說法是不正確的嘛所以我要求農業部就這個農業金庫獨立董事可以呢如同台肥或中小企銀一般回到公司法的公司\n\n07:37.526 --> 07:40.287\n規定,那你可以調整嗎?你願意調整嗎?你也可以修改嗎?你也可以內部修改嗎?你願意修改嗎?為了簽督,為了簽督,是啊,那你為了簽督它更好的運作。\n\n07:55.595 --> 07:55.635\n發言委員：\n\n08:14.428 --> 08:18.351\n農業金庫現在的運作到底有什麼樣的問題嗎?你可以問所有的農民我們現在農業金庫的貸款哪一個農業金庫是正確的?我們就是站在農民的角色\n\n08:37.367 --> 08:37.387\n好謝謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.65,"end":21.093,"text":"致詢請張教軍委員主席我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長委員好部長午安應該阿伯伯都邀啦吼"},{"start":22.312,"end":27.156,"text":"您認為因為農業金庫有重要的政策任務所以現在不適合變更選任制度但本席想要請教您農業金庫的股權結構現在是什麼樣子?"},{"start":48.453,"end":72.393,"text":"農業部本身大概有將近37、38左右。那民股的部分大概是50幾。所謂民股就是農漁會體系。那將近六成都是農漁會的錢。那農漁會的錢是誰的錢呢?就是農民跟漁民的錢。所以農業部加農業信用保證基金就是飯工補股。"},{"start":73.234,"end":98.717,"text":"只有4成的股權那有6成都是農漁會的錢就是我們全國農漁民的存款那這些農漁會有權在我們農業金庫的董事會發出聲音做出決議嗎?我想喔股東的部分大概分為兩個部分一個是一般的股東那一般的股東會跟股權的結構有做一些"},{"start":101.036,"end":109.183,"text":"此外,獨立董事的部分是由農業部來推薦,但是農業部推薦的部分也有大概兩集,也有一些農會的代表相對的,還有專業人士,因為獨立董事是要專業人士。"},{"start":115.888,"end":128.683,"text":"你們只有40%的股權卻占了三分之二實習的董事董事長也是農業部指派而有六成股權的農漁會"},{"start":136.33,"end":148.641,"text":"農業部在農業金庫根本就是有權無責不可以不顧股東的權益為什麼不顧股東權益呢?你知道農業金庫現在的損益是如何嗎?"},{"start":150.442,"end":155.745,"text":"農業部沒有農業金庫基本上我所知道的部分大概今年是虧損54億是54億虧損累累但六成股權的農運會卻根本沒有辦法在農業金庫的董事會中出聲那最近的一個例子就是中央續產會向農業金庫竊了10億買雞蛋"},{"start":179.496,"end":195.527,"text":"請問續償會有擔保嗎?我想由中央那個農信保來擔保,然後他現在...農信保只有保5億,所以是有5億沒有擔保的,你等於左手通右手。我跟委員報告齁,15億不是借的不還的,他現在已經剩下3年多...中央續償會沒有任何的擔保,僅靠農信保就成..."},{"start":201.351,"end":215.981,"text":"農業金庫搬了10億這個過程是誰同意的?是誰同意的?就是農業金庫的董事會同意的董事會裡面有三分之二實習的董事是你農業部指派的"},{"start":216.681,"end":220.886,"text":"所以你說的這個我知道但是過程有瑕疵啊他可以不用擔保就可以搬錢出去他今天是還了那如果他不還呢農業部要幫他還嗎所以你說的政策目標就是方便這些團體從農業金庫搬錢嗎"},{"start":240.245,"end":247.769,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":267.159,"end":273.244,"text":"你也是被告被傳訊了續產會也有人被交保如果這是一個正常的董事會發現一間公司還沒有成立就可以拿到農業部的單子他們不會覺得有問題嗎?現在農業金庫之所以可以沒有擔保把10億借給續產會問題就出在農業金庫的董事結構"},{"start":293.959,"end":304.624,"text":"根本沒有人可以在董事會裡面起到監督制衡的作用。部長,你覺得有人可以在董事會裡面幫我們的農民監督嗎?我在講,我在講,我在講,農業金庫裡面剛才你講的五席董事全部都是農業部提名。"},{"start":317.45,"end":337.177,"text":"獨立董事主要的義務是在加強企業的內部控制不受利益牽制股東會的時候要勇於發出反對的意見結果這個功能現在完全喪失他就是農業部的上途上途疲倦所以農業部你簡直就是球員兼裁判啊難怪他現在農業金庫會虧損累累啊農業金庫有他的相關的農業金融法"},{"start":342.939,"end":347.443,"text":"所以我現在就建議你我不是只要罵你我也不是只要criticize你我現在是要告訴你說本席認為要讓農業金庫走向正軌應該要依公司法第192之1條的規定"},{"start":366.681,"end":393.619,"text":"讓持有已發行股份總數比例以上股份的股東可以用書面向公司提出讀懂候選人名單而不是用農業部一把抓這樣才能夠保障股東的權益落實公司治理你自己仔細看啊農業金庫它不是一般公開的公司它是依農業金融法它是一個特別法農業金庫存在的目的就是要支持農漁"},{"start":395.94,"end":410.088,"text":"這個農民榆木體系的金融穩定那部長你說他有獨特的政策性任務所以獨董需要由農業部推薦這根本就是錯誤的命題嘛那請問台肥公司是不是也有重要的政策任務"},{"start":411.417,"end":419.502,"text":"臺北市一個公開發行或是公開發行的不一樣這兩個不一樣臺北市港開發行不一樣這兩個是不一樣的你再去問一下經濟部部長、郭部長你去請教他一下嘛中小企營跟農業金庫也是一樣啊他飯工股又有將近30拍啊但是他也是疫情公開發行的"},{"start":436.073,"end":456.926,"text":"只要有一攤以上的股份的股東就有這個獨立董事的提名權所以你的說法是不正確的嘛所以我要求農業部就這個農業金庫獨立董事可以呢如同台肥或中小企銀一般回到公司法的公司"},{"start":457.526,"end":460.287,"text":"規定,那你可以調整嗎?你願意調整嗎?你也可以修改嗎?你也可以內部修改嗎?你願意修改嗎?為了簽督,為了簽督,是啊,那你為了簽督它更好的運作。"},{"start":475.595,"end":475.635,"text":"發言委員："},{"start":494.428,"end":498.351,"text":"農業金庫現在的運作到底有什麼樣的問題嗎?你可以問所有的農民我們現在農業金庫的貸款哪一個農業金庫是正確的?我們就是站在農民的角色"},{"start":517.367,"end":517.387,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":776,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（11時25分）主席，我想請陳部長。"],["主席：請農業部的陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長午安。應該還沒有肚子餓吧？"],["陳部長駿季：應該還沒有那麼早。"],["張委員嘉郡：還可以喔？"],["陳部長駿季：還可以。"],["張委員嘉郡：好。部長，我今天想要質詢有關於農業金庫獨立董事派任的議題，您認為因為農業金庫有重要的政策任務，所以現在不適合變更選任制度，但本席想要請教您，農業金庫的股權結構現在是什麼樣子？"],["陳部長駿季：就誠如您的表所畫的，農業部本身大概有將近37、38%左右，民股的部分大概是占百分之五十幾。"],["張委員嘉郡：所謂民股就是農漁會體系，將近六成都是農漁會的錢，農漁會的錢是誰的錢呢？就是農民跟漁民的錢。農業部加上農業信用保證基金，就是泛公股只占了四成的股權，有六成都是農漁會的錢，就是我們全國農漁民的存款。請問這些農漁會有權在我們農業金庫的董事會中發出聲音，做出決議嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：股東大概分為兩個部分，一個是一般的股東，一般的股東跟股權的結構會有一定的比例；另外獨立董事的部分是由農業部來推薦，但是農業部推薦的部分也有大概兩席……"],["張委員嘉郡：這就是本席要告訴你的。"],["陳部長駿季：對，那相對地也有一些農會的代表，然後還有專業人士，因為獨立董事需要專業人士。"],["張委員嘉郡：這就是本席要告訴你的，你們只有40%的股權卻占了三分之二共10席董事，董事長也是農業部指派，而有六成股權的農漁會代表全國的農漁民，卻只有五席董事，可以說農業部在農業金庫根本就是有權無責，可以不顧股東的權益。為什麼不顧股東權益呢？你知道農業金庫現在的損益是如何嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：農業金庫基本上我所知道的部分，大概今年是虧損54億。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，54億，虧損累累，但六成股權的農漁會卻根本沒有辦法在農業金庫的董事會中出聲。最近的一個例子就是中央畜產會向農業金庫借了10億買雞蛋，請問畜產會有擔保嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想由中央農信保來擔保，然後它現在……"],["張委員嘉郡：農信保只有保5億，所以有5億是沒有擔保的，你等於左手通右手。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，15億不是借了不還的，它現在已經剩下三千多萬的雞蛋……"],["張委員嘉郡：中央畜產會沒有任何擔保，僅靠農信保就從農業金庫搬了10億，這個過程是誰同意的？是誰同意的？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得不能這樣講，不能這樣講，它……"],["張委員嘉郡：就是農業金庫的董事會同意的，董事會裡面有三分之二（10席）的董事是你農業部指派的，所以你說的……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，融資的部分它已經還了剩下三千八百多萬，它不是不還錢……"],["張委員嘉郡：這個我知道，但是過程有瑕疵，它可以不用擔保就可以搬錢出去。它今天是還了，那如果它不還咧？農業部要幫它還嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：中央畜產會是依畜牧法成立的。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你說的政策目標就是方便這些團體從農業金庫搬錢嘛，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：我不同意這樣講，因為中央畜產會是依畜牧法成立的。"],["張委員嘉郡：這些錢有六成都是全國農漁民的錢，那誰可以把關？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，農業金庫本身……"],["張委員嘉郡：你可以負責嗎？假設它不還，你可以負責嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這跟誰負責沒有關係，它有它的整個理事會的部分。"],["張委員嘉郡：你身為農業部長，你覺得這跟誰負責沒有關係？"],["陳部長駿季：農業金庫的借貸都會透過正當的程序……"],["張委員嘉郡：中央畜產會買蛋的事情已經成為弊案了，你也是被告而且被傳訊了……"],["陳部長駿季：我個人坦蕩蕩，沒有什麼問題。"],["張委員嘉郡：畜產會也有人被裁定交保，如果這是一個正常的董事會，發現一間公司還沒有成立就可以拿到農業部的單子，他們不會覺得有問題嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這個跟農業金庫沒有關係。"],["張委員嘉郡：現在農業金庫之所以可以沒有擔保就把10億借給畜產會……"],["陳部長駿季：它有農信保。"],["張委員嘉郡：問題就出在農業金庫的董事結構，根本沒有人可以在董事會裡面起到監督、制衡的作用，部長，你覺得有人可以在董事會裡面幫我們的農漁民監督嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員報告，農業金庫肩擔了所有農民貸款的部分，這個貸款是農業金融支持的部分。"],["張委員嘉郡：那我再講一點，在農業金庫裡面，剛才你講的5席董事全部都是農業部提名，獨立董事主要的義務是在加強企業的內部控制，不受利益牽制，在開股東會的時候要勇於提出反對的意見，結果這個功能現在完全喪失，他就是農業部的橡皮圖章，所以農業部簡直就是球員兼裁判，難怪現在農業金庫會虧損累累啊！農業部可以不用負責嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：農業金庫有與它相關的農業金融法，它的董事會有董事會的職權，獨立董事是獨立的。"],["張委員嘉郡：我現在就建議你，我不是只要罵你，我也不是只要criticize你，我現在是要告訴你，本席認為要讓農業金庫走向正軌，應該要依公司法第一百九十二條之一的規定，讓持有已發行股份總數1%以上股份的股東可以用書面向公司提出獨董候選人名單，而不是由農業部一把抓，這樣才能夠保障股東的權益，落實公司治理，你自己仔細看啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員報告，農業金庫不是一般公開的公司，它是依農業金融法，這是一個特別法。"],["張委員嘉郡：我要再講，農業金庫存在的目的就是要支持農林漁牧體系的金融穩定，部長說它有獨特的政策性任務，所以獨董需要由農業部推薦，這根本就是錯誤的命題嘛！請問台肥公司是不是也有重要的政策任務？"],["陳部長駿季：台肥是一個公開發行……它是公開發行……"],["張委員嘉郡：台肥就是泛公股……"],["陳部長駿季：這兩個不一樣。"],["張委員嘉郡：它泛公股也有32%，台肥獨立董事的選任也是依照公司法，1%以上就可以提名……"],["陳部長駿季：台肥是公開發行的公司，這兩個是不一樣的。"],["張委員嘉郡：你再去問一下經濟部郭部長，你去請教他一下，中小企銀跟農業金庫也是一樣啊！它泛公股也有將近30%呀！"],["陳部長駿季：中小企銀也是公開發行的，農業金庫不是公開發行的，台肥是公開發行的。"],["張委員嘉郡：但是它也是依循公司法，只要持有1%以上股份的股東就有獨立董事的提名權，所以你的說法是不正確的嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：您的講法、您的資訊也不對。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以我要求農業部就農業金庫獨立董事可以如同台肥或中小企銀一般，回到公司法的規定……"],["陳部長駿季：中小企銀是公開發行的公司。"],["張委員嘉郡：那你可以調整嘛！你願意調整嗎？你也可以修改，你也可以內部修改啊！你願意修改嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：農業金庫本身兼顧了農民的貸款，所有專案貸款的部分、利息差額補貼的部分都是由農業部來支應的。"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊！那你為了監督它運作得更好，你可以讓出農業部的權力，讓這個獨董的提名更加貼近民意嗎？你是不是不願意嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：我告訴你，我們不可能……"],["張委員嘉郡：你是不是不願意嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：農業金庫具有政策上的金融支持的目的。"],["張委員嘉郡：我的問題就是，包括你之前想要提名的董事長，他在農業金庫的呆帳那麼多，你也想提名他當董事長啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我想請問委員，農業金庫現在的運作到底有什麼樣的問題嘛？"],["張委員嘉郡：你們就是沒有辦法站在農漁民的立場嘛！那你還在講什麼政策目標？"],["陳部長駿季：你可以問所有的農民，現在農業金庫的貸款，哪一個農民有反對的？"],["張委員嘉郡：你在講什麼政策目標？我的意思就是說，如果你有站在農民的角色……"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們就是站在農民的角色……"],["張委員嘉郡：你就可以把獨董的提名權讓出來嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們就是站在農民的角色。"],["張委員嘉郡：什麼？你說你們站在農民的角色，什麼部分？"],["陳部長駿季：對，你可以問農民，我們現在的專案貸款……"],["張委員嘉郡：就是這樣胡亂提名嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在的專案貸款……"],["張委員嘉郡：就是這樣胡亂提名、胡亂虧損、胡亂借錢嗎？這10億有擔保嗎？"],["主席：好，謝謝。部長請回座。好，謝謝。","下一位質詢請呂玉玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-14","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","楊瓊瓔","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","鍾佳濱","林俊憲","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","蔡易餘"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算關於農業部主管，非營業部分：農業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金、\n農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00002"}}}