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00:01:11,958\n進選時候的政見包括他對於所謂科徵基本關稅進一步提高不公平國家的關稅稅率這個部簽看起來他在1月20號就職以後應該會朝這個方向來進行所以我們目前2023看起來是400多億塊500億那我們是不是所謂的不公平貿易國家在我們的認知裡面我們會被列為不公平貿易國家\n\n4\n00:01:13,302 --> 00:01:34,752\n這個部分其實在上週的時候我們的召委在委會有提到專案報告我們覺得要關注這個議題沒錯這個是非常有可能的也就是說我們對他的這個差順差一直在擴大的話所以我們現在是一個要等著給保護費然後不知道保護費夠不夠的國家我們一直在插雷彈\n\n5\n00:01:36,512 --> 00:01:57,438\n關務署這邊我們有所謂的關稅也是我們的工具那目前為止如果按照川普他們的智庫提出來的有幾個國家第一個是中國第二印度歐盟臺灣越南跟泰國如果按照他們的標準要提升所謂的平均關稅差距的話嚴重影響的大概是印度他會提升到88%\n\n6\n00:01:59,558 --> 00:02:23,806\n逆差將近會減少88%臺灣更嚴重會影響到59%第三名是越南44%也就是說他對中國的逆差還沒有像我們這個差距來的這麼大所以其實公研院我們也很擔心接下去會影響到的關稅我想請問一下如果他們提升關稅部長我們有沒有相對應的武器可以使用\n\n7\n00:02:26,271 --> 00:02:39,023\n他們對我們加徵關稅,我們也可以對他加徵關稅嗎?我覺得這個部分變成是一個貿易的一個互相的一個報復。那我們看到我們輸出到美國的主要的產品裡面\n\n8\n00:02:39,926 --> 00:02:40,046\n臺灣的關稅沒什麼用是嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:07,053 --> 00:03:20,524\n因為我們是WTO的會員,所以相關的稅率我們是按照部委的...那他提升之後WTO不會對他們做處理嗎?不會,因為美國太強了。來,署長,你有什麼工具?你有辦法嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:22,060 --> 00:03:50,158\n報告委員我們的那個稅率都是立法院要三讀通過是所以我們立法院要幫你的忙否則你沒有工具是嗎就是各部會如果評估的話這個是我們接下去要做相關的處理重點是我再講一條一次要付保護費要知道自己要付什麼保護費然後我們有什麼因應之道有什麼辦法可以應對我想這個是我們今天關心的焦點好嗎好署長請回我想請部長留步那請賦稅署署長\n\n11\n00:03:51,957 --> 00:03:52,037\n國產署署長\n\n12\n00:03:57,455 --> 00:04:24,451\n部長其實我們在司法院的統計裡面看到最高行政法院他其實有非常多行政訴訟的狀況那行政訴訟的數量裡面統計出來對第一名的叫做土地事件大概有118件的行政訴訟那這是最高法院稅捐事件大概是113件這兩個就將近佔了三成到四成所以土地事件稅捐事件大概都是財政部的案子對吧\n\n13\n00:04:25,322 --> 00:04:43,830\n你們一年有多少相關的訴訟案件?您是指司法院裡面還是行政法院裡面?司法院統計年報最高行政法院有統計第一名叫土地第二名叫稅捐第一個跟委員報告國產署這個部分大概他是屬於私權的部分所以他應該是走民事訴訟的部分\n\n14\n00:04:44,250 --> 00:05:09,485\n在行政救濟的部分其實大部分他不會走到行政救濟那邊來所以土地的案件大概土地的案件大概可能就是屬於一般的民事案件大概跟國產署之間的其實應該沒有那麼大的高的數量我們現在統計的是行政訴訟案對行政訴訟來說土地的案件應該不會在國產署這邊的沒關係我現在問你一年要花有多少這樣的訴訟件數復稅數就復稅的部分請署長來就統計數字\n\n15\n00:05:13,448 --> 00:05:26,842\n我跟委員報告目前我們手上的統計數字就是打到行政訴訟的如果是中央稅的部分佔比是大概百分之我以112年度為例大概佔比是8.45%就2744件裡面屬於稅捐案件是232件\n\n16\n00:05:31,667 --> 00:06:00,283\n那地方的部分呢是2319件裡面稅捐的案件17件占比是0.73%相對的是說國產署還有賦稅署其實跟民眾的官司其實不少那在112年的時候行政院曾經頒定一個計畫就是有關律師法跟專計轉任公務員條例增訂了所謂機關跟公立學校可以設置所謂的公職律師的制度部長\n\n17\n00:06:01,663 --> 00:06:24,372\n這個公職律師的制度要延攬一定職業經歷的律師來機關裡面提供相關的服務還有參與法律案的研議但是在112年提出這個計畫之後財政部如果依照你們有這麼多的相關的訴訟也好不管是民事的還是行政訴訟你有考慮引進行政院這樣的計畫嗎\n\n18\n00:06:26,636 --> 00:06:55,034\n目前為止好像只有衛福部還有國防部有來申請財政部從頭到尾連提計畫都沒有是嗎對我們大概調查過其實認為沒有這樣的一個需要因為目前相關的我們相關的訴訟會由我們內部的法務人員來做如果有需要的話也會委請外部的律師所以部長我想問一下請你統計你現在所有的機關你一年有花了多少相關的費用在請律師\n\n19\n00:06:56,630 --> 00:07:06,917\n所以如果按照你剛剛講的那些訴訟因為行政訴訟是律師強制代理所以如果有的話是不是會變成負稅署他的一個負擔\n\n20\n00:07:10,078 --> 00:07:33,428\n這個部分我們來調查一下相關我們在……所以我的意思是說行政院有這樣的計畫相關的單位有提出需求但是我們看到可能最多行政訴訟的機關叫財政部但是他們完全不甩這個行政院這個機制有點奇怪啦這個機制難道我們行政院推動來之後自己的機關都不願意參與喔這很奇怪\n\n21\n00:07:35,409 --> 00:08:02,370\n我現在看到教育部還希望有17個內政部2個國防部3個財政部0個欸財政部有這麼多行政訴訟拜託我覺得公職律師如果是有需要的話其實可以節省我們的成本而且也可以讓更多在你的內部就可以做相關的處理如果你花的錢可以請到公職律師在裡面可以節省掉成本第二個也可以增加\n\n22\n00:08:03,547 --> 00:08:23,932\n期關參與行政院推出這個法案推出這個計畫的好意啊好不好所以財政部所來不考慮行政院這個計畫不是不考慮我們還是要瞭解一下第一個就是實際的效益情況112年到現在了已經推了一年多了我們也調查過只有國防部還有衛福部所以其他的機關我覺得財政部也應該參與討論好嗎這是你算一算你每年花的錢跟你\n\n23\n00:08:31,997 --> 00:08:44,435\n用公職律師花的錢還有效益上面我覺得希望你們做個評估尤其是你們訴訟大概是全部機關裡面應該是最多的我們在效益的部分再來考量\n\n24\n00:08:45,748 --> 00:09:06,644\n那就麻煩一個月之內把這個部分回覆給我最後一個問題就是部長你這幾天大概都在討論財化法的問題啦財化法現在國民黨的修法版本好像還沒有確定但是民進黨還有行政院目前也是不推動相關的修法但是部長在今年11月\n\n25\n00:09:08,685 --> 00:09:27,042\n蕭美琴副總統曾經參與了工商總會的慶祝大會。工商總會在2023、2024的全國工業總會白皮書裡面都有明白的提出來他們建議要修正財政收支劃分法。部長有看到他們的白皮書嗎?\n\n26\n00:09:29,644 --> 00:09:41,340\n財務法的修正,相關的黨團有提出...所以如果說執政黨要用在野黨修財務法是為了掏空國家所以也是把工業總會列為掏空國家的一個對象嗎?\n\n27\n00:09:44,089 --> 00:10:00,841\n最主要是說因為在沒有完整的討論審慎的規劃之前所以我們希望你們完整討論希望你們審慎規劃但是不是提出修正意見就是掏空國家我要再次強調工業總會也提一樣的意見財政部不要再假裝沒看見\n\n28\n00:10:06,878 --> 00:10:27,069\n這個白皮書已經2023、2024的白皮書都已經做成而且副總統也是參加工業總會的慶祝大會我想還是一樣接下去財委會包括院會都會處理財化法我希望部長你們還是要提出你們認為多少的垂直分配是可以接受的\n\n29\n00:10:27,589 --> 00:10:40,820\n如果在一個國家可以超徵4千億的情況下補足2千多億讓地方政府能夠多一點財源並不是萬惡不赦部長我希望在我們協商之前可以看到行政院的版本\n\n30\n00:10:42,163 --> 00:10:49,489\n跟委員報告還是講財化法的修正要審慎的規劃而且要充分的討論目前的期限還是非常大的是因為在事權跟錢權必須要相配合的來做討論但是事權完全沒有討論而是只有權權的部分來做討論的話\n\n31\n00:11:10,582 --> 00:11:12,709\n謝謝黃珊珊委員接著我們請吳立華委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t2150\t臺灣跟美國2023到現在的這些所謂的貿易情勢,我們逆差大概有多少?一年的逆差?對美國\n35200\t44393\t在歷年來說其實我們對美國的差一直是在提升的就對美國的出口是在擴張的是的 所以從川普他\n46885\t71958\t進選時候的政見包括他對於所謂科徵基本關稅進一步提高不公平國家的關稅稅率這個部簽看起來他在1月20號就職以後應該會朝這個方向來進行所以我們目前2023看起來是400多億塊500億那我們是不是所謂的不公平貿易國家在我們的認知裡面我們會被列為不公平貿易國家\n73302\t94752\t這個部分其實在上週的時候我們的召委在委會有提到專案報告我們覺得要關注這個議題沒錯這個是非常有可能的也就是說我們對他的這個差順差一直在擴大的話所以我們現在是一個要等著給保護費然後不知道保護費夠不夠的國家我們一直在插雷彈\n96512\t117438\t關務署這邊我們有所謂的關稅也是我們的工具那目前為止如果按照川普他們的智庫提出來的有幾個國家第一個是中國第二印度歐盟臺灣越南跟泰國如果按照他們的標準要提升所謂的平均關稅差距的話嚴重影響的大概是印度他會提升到88%\n119558\t143806\t逆差將近會減少88%臺灣更嚴重會影響到59%第三名是越南44%也就是說他對中國的逆差還沒有像我們這個差距來的這麼大所以其實公研院我們也很擔心接下去會影響到的關稅我想請問一下如果他們提升關稅部長我們有沒有相對應的武器可以使用\n146271\t159023\t他們對我們加徵關稅,我們也可以對他加徵關稅嗎?我覺得這個部分變成是一個貿易的一個互相的一個報復。那我們看到我們輸出到美國的主要的產品裡面\n159926\t160046\t臺灣的關稅沒什麼用是嗎?\n187053\t200524\t因為我們是WTO的會員,所以相關的稅率我們是按照部委的...那他提升之後WTO不會對他們做處理嗎?不會,因為美國太強了。來,署長,你有什麼工具?你有辦法嗎?\n202060\t230158\t報告委員我們的那個稅率都是立法院要三讀通過是所以我們立法院要幫你的忙否則你沒有工具是嗎就是各部會如果評估的話這個是我們接下去要做相關的處理重點是我再講一條一次要付保護費要知道自己要付什麼保護費然後我們有什麼因應之道有什麼辦法可以應對我想這個是我們今天關心的焦點好嗎好署長請回我想請部長留步那請賦稅署署長\n231957\t232037\t國產署署長\n237455\t264451\t部長其實我們在司法院的統計裡面看到最高行政法院他其實有非常多行政訴訟的狀況那行政訴訟的數量裡面統計出來對第一名的叫做土地事件大概有118件的行政訴訟那這是最高法院稅捐事件大概是113件這兩個就將近佔了三成到四成所以土地事件稅捐事件大概都是財政部的案子對吧\n265322\t283830\t你們一年有多少相關的訴訟案件?您是指司法院裡面還是行政法院裡面?司法院統計年報最高行政法院有統計第一名叫土地第二名叫稅捐第一個跟委員報告國產署這個部分大概他是屬於私權的部分所以他應該是走民事訴訟的部分\n284250\t309485\t在行政救濟的部分其實大部分他不會走到行政救濟那邊來所以土地的案件大概土地的案件大概可能就是屬於一般的民事案件大概跟國產署之間的其實應該沒有那麼大的高的數量我們現在統計的是行政訴訟案對行政訴訟來說土地的案件應該不會在國產署這邊的沒關係我現在問你一年要花有多少這樣的訴訟件數復稅數就復稅的部分請署長來就統計數字\n313448\t326842\t我跟委員報告目前我們手上的統計數字就是打到行政訴訟的如果是中央稅的部分佔比是大概百分之我以112年度為例大概佔比是8.45%就2744件裡面屬於稅捐案件是232件\n331667\t360283\t那地方的部分呢是2319件裡面稅捐的案件17件占比是0.73%相對的是說國產署還有賦稅署其實跟民眾的官司其實不少那在112年的時候行政院曾經頒定一個計畫就是有關律師法跟專計轉任公務員條例增訂了所謂機關跟公立學校可以設置所謂的公職律師的制度部長\n361663\t384372\t這個公職律師的制度要延攬一定職業經歷的律師來機關裡面提供相關的服務還有參與法律案的研議但是在112年提出這個計畫之後財政部如果依照你們有這麼多的相關的訴訟也好不管是民事的還是行政訴訟你有考慮引進行政院這樣的計畫嗎\n386636\t415034\t目前為止好像只有衛福部還有國防部有來申請財政部從頭到尾連提計畫都沒有是嗎對我們大概調查過其實認為沒有這樣的一個需要因為目前相關的我們相關的訴訟會由我們內部的法務人員來做如果有需要的話也會委請外部的律師所以部長我想問一下請你統計你現在所有的機關你一年有花了多少相關的費用在請律師\n416630\t426917\t所以如果按照你剛剛講的那些訴訟因為行政訴訟是律師強制代理所以如果有的話是不是會變成負稅署他的一個負擔\n430078\t453428\t這個部分我們來調查一下相關我們在……所以我的意思是說行政院有這樣的計畫相關的單位有提出需求但是我們看到可能最多行政訴訟的機關叫財政部但是他們完全不甩這個行政院這個機制有點奇怪啦這個機制難道我們行政院推動來之後自己的機關都不願意參與喔這很奇怪\n455409\t482370\t我現在看到教育部還希望有17個內政部2個國防部3個財政部0個欸財政部有這麼多行政訴訟拜託我覺得公職律師如果是有需要的話其實可以節省我們的成本而且也可以讓更多在你的內部就可以做相關的處理如果你花的錢可以請到公職律師在裡面可以節省掉成本第二個也可以增加\n483547\t503932\t期關參與行政院推出這個法案推出這個計畫的好意啊好不好所以財政部所來不考慮行政院這個計畫不是不考慮我們還是要瞭解一下第一個就是實際的效益情況112年到現在了已經推了一年多了我們也調查過只有國防部還有衛福部所以其他的機關我覺得財政部也應該參與討論好嗎這是你算一算你每年花的錢跟你\n511997\t524435\t用公職律師花的錢還有效益上面我覺得希望你們做個評估尤其是你們訴訟大概是全部機關裡面應該是最多的我們在效益的部分再來考量\n525748\t546644\t那就麻煩一個月之內把這個部分回覆給我最後一個問題就是部長你這幾天大概都在討論財化法的問題啦財化法現在國民黨的修法版本好像還沒有確定但是民進黨還有行政院目前也是不推動相關的修法但是部長在今年11月\n548685\t567042\t蕭美琴副總統曾經參與了工商總會的慶祝大會。工商總會在2023、2024的全國工業總會白皮書裡面都有明白的提出來他們建議要修正財政收支劃分法。部長有看到他們的白皮書嗎?\n569644\t581340\t財務法的修正,相關的黨團有提出...所以如果說執政黨要用在野黨修財務法是為了掏空國家所以也是把工業總會列為掏空國家的一個對象嗎?\n584089\t600841\t最主要是說因為在沒有完整的討論審慎的規劃之前所以我們希望你們完整討論希望你們審慎規劃但是不是提出修正意見就是掏空國家我要再次強調工業總會也提一樣的意見財政部不要再假裝沒看見\n606878\t627069\t這個白皮書已經2023、2024的白皮書都已經做成而且副總統也是參加工業總會的慶祝大會我想還是一樣接下去財委會包括院會都會處理財化法我希望部長你們還是要提出你們認為多少的垂直分配是可以接受的\n627589\t640820\t如果在一個國家可以超徵4千億的情況下補足2千多億讓地方政府能夠多一點財源並不是萬惡不赦部長我希望在我們協商之前可以看到行政院的版本\n642163\t649489\t跟委員報告還是講財化法的修正要審慎的規劃而且要充分的討論目前的期限還是非常大的是因為在事權跟錢權必須要相配合的來做討論但是事權完全沒有討論而是只有權權的部分來做討論的話\n670582\t672709\t謝謝黃珊珊委員 接著我們請吳立華委員\n","txt":"臺灣跟美國2023到現在的這些所謂的貿易情勢,我們逆差大概有多少?一年的逆差?對美國\n在歷年來說其實我們對美國的差一直是在提升的就對美國的出口是在擴張的是的 所以從川普他\n進選時候的政見包括他對於所謂科徵基本關稅進一步提高不公平國家的關稅稅率這個部簽看起來他在1月20號就職以後應該會朝這個方向來進行所以我們目前2023看起來是400多億塊500億那我們是不是所謂的不公平貿易國家在我們的認知裡面我們會被列為不公平貿易國家\n這個部分其實在上週的時候我們的召委在委會有提到專案報告我們覺得要關注這個議題沒錯這個是非常有可能的也就是說我們對他的這個差順差一直在擴大的話所以我們現在是一個要等著給保護費然後不知道保護費夠不夠的國家我們一直在插雷彈\n關務署這邊我們有所謂的關稅也是我們的工具那目前為止如果按照川普他們的智庫提出來的有幾個國家第一個是中國第二印度歐盟臺灣越南跟泰國如果按照他們的標準要提升所謂的平均關稅差距的話嚴重影響的大概是印度他會提升到88%\n逆差將近會減少88%臺灣更嚴重會影響到59%第三名是越南44%也就是說他對中國的逆差還沒有像我們這個差距來的這麼大所以其實公研院我們也很擔心接下去會影響到的關稅我想請問一下如果他們提升關稅部長我們有沒有相對應的武器可以使用\n他們對我們加徵關稅,我們也可以對他加徵關稅嗎?我覺得這個部分變成是一個貿易的一個互相的一個報復。那我們看到我們輸出到美國的主要的產品裡面\n臺灣的關稅沒什麼用是嗎?\n因為我們是WTO的會員,所以相關的稅率我們是按照部委的...那他提升之後WTO不會對他們做處理嗎?不會,因為美國太強了。來,署長,你有什麼工具?你有辦法嗎?\n報告委員我們的那個稅率都是立法院要三讀通過是所以我們立法院要幫你的忙否則你沒有工具是嗎就是各部會如果評估的話這個是我們接下去要做相關的處理重點是我再講一條一次要付保護費要知道自己要付什麼保護費然後我們有什麼因應之道有什麼辦法可以應對我想這個是我們今天關心的焦點好嗎好署長請回我想請部長留步那請賦稅署署長\n國產署署長\n部長其實我們在司法院的統計裡面看到最高行政法院他其實有非常多行政訴訟的狀況那行政訴訟的數量裡面統計出來對第一名的叫做土地事件大概有118件的行政訴訟那這是最高法院稅捐事件大概是113件這兩個就將近佔了三成到四成所以土地事件稅捐事件大概都是財政部的案子對吧\n你們一年有多少相關的訴訟案件?您是指司法院裡面還是行政法院裡面?司法院統計年報最高行政法院有統計第一名叫土地第二名叫稅捐第一個跟委員報告國產署這個部分大概他是屬於私權的部分所以他應該是走民事訴訟的部分\n在行政救濟的部分其實大部分他不會走到行政救濟那邊來所以土地的案件大概土地的案件大概可能就是屬於一般的民事案件大概跟國產署之間的其實應該沒有那麼大的高的數量我們現在統計的是行政訴訟案對行政訴訟來說土地的案件應該不會在國產署這邊的沒關係我現在問你一年要花有多少這樣的訴訟件數復稅數就復稅的部分請署長來就統計數字\n我跟委員報告目前我們手上的統計數字就是打到行政訴訟的如果是中央稅的部分佔比是大概百分之我以112年度為例大概佔比是8.45%就2744件裡面屬於稅捐案件是232件\n那地方的部分呢是2319件裡面稅捐的案件17件占比是0.73%相對的是說國產署還有賦稅署其實跟民眾的官司其實不少那在112年的時候行政院曾經頒定一個計畫就是有關律師法跟專計轉任公務員條例增訂了所謂機關跟公立學校可以設置所謂的公職律師的制度部長\n這個公職律師的制度要延攬一定職業經歷的律師來機關裡面提供相關的服務還有參與法律案的研議但是在112年提出這個計畫之後財政部如果依照你們有這麼多的相關的訴訟也好不管是民事的還是行政訴訟你有考慮引進行政院這樣的計畫嗎\n目前為止好像只有衛福部還有國防部有來申請財政部從頭到尾連提計畫都沒有是嗎對我們大概調查過其實認為沒有這樣的一個需要因為目前相關的我們相關的訴訟會由我們內部的法務人員來做如果有需要的話也會委請外部的律師所以部長我想問一下請你統計你現在所有的機關你一年有花了多少相關的費用在請律師\n所以如果按照你剛剛講的那些訴訟因為行政訴訟是律師強制代理所以如果有的話是不是會變成負稅署他的一個負擔\n這個部分我們來調查一下相關我們在……所以我的意思是說行政院有這樣的計畫相關的單位有提出需求但是我們看到可能最多行政訴訟的機關叫財政部但是他們完全不甩這個行政院這個機制有點奇怪啦這個機制難道我們行政院推動來之後自己的機關都不願意參與喔這很奇怪\n我現在看到教育部還希望有17個內政部2個國防部3個財政部0個欸財政部有這麼多行政訴訟拜託我覺得公職律師如果是有需要的話其實可以節省我們的成本而且也可以讓更多在你的內部就可以做相關的處理如果你花的錢可以請到公職律師在裡面可以節省掉成本第二個也可以增加\n期關參與行政院推出這個法案推出這個計畫的好意啊好不好所以財政部所來不考慮行政院這個計畫不是不考慮我們還是要瞭解一下第一個就是實際的效益情況112年到現在了已經推了一年多了我們也調查過只有國防部還有衛福部所以其他的機關我覺得財政部也應該參與討論好嗎這是你算一算你每年花的錢跟你\n用公職律師花的錢還有效益上面我覺得希望你們做個評估尤其是你們訴訟大概是全部機關裡面應該是最多的我們在效益的部分再來考量\n那就麻煩一個月之內把這個部分回覆給我最後一個問題就是部長你這幾天大概都在討論財化法的問題啦財化法現在國民黨的修法版本好像還沒有確定但是民進黨還有行政院目前也是不推動相關的修法但是部長在今年11月\n蕭美琴副總統曾經參與了工商總會的慶祝大會。工商總會在2023、2024的全國工業總會白皮書裡面都有明白的提出來他們建議要修正財政收支劃分法。部長有看到他們的白皮書嗎?\n財務法的修正,相關的黨團有提出...所以如果說執政黨要用在野黨修財務法是為了掏空國家所以也是把工業總會列為掏空國家的一個對象嗎?\n最主要是說因為在沒有完整的討論審慎的規劃之前所以我們希望你們完整討論希望你們審慎規劃但是不是提出修正意見就是掏空國家我要再次強調工業總會也提一樣的意見財政部不要再假裝沒看見\n這個白皮書已經2023、2024的白皮書都已經做成而且副總統也是參加工業總會的慶祝大會我想還是一樣接下去財委會包括院會都會處理財化法我希望部長你們還是要提出你們認為多少的垂直分配是可以接受的\n如果在一個國家可以超徵4千億的情況下補足2千多億讓地方政府能夠多一點財源並不是萬惡不赦部長我希望在我們協商之前可以看到行政院的版本\n跟委員報告還是講財化法的修正要審慎的規劃而且要充分的討論目前的期限還是非常大的是因為在事權跟錢權必須要相配合的來做討論但是事權完全沒有討論而是只有權權的部分來做討論的話\n謝謝黃珊珊委員 接著我們請吳立華委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:02.150\n臺灣跟美國2023到現在的這些所謂的貿易情勢,我們逆差大概有多少?一年的逆差?對美國\n\n00:35.200 --> 00:44.393\n在歷年來說其實我們對美國的差一直是在提升的就對美國的出口是在擴張的是的所以從川普他\n\n00:46.885 --> 01:11.958\n進選時候的政見包括他對於所謂科徵基本關稅進一步提高不公平國家的關稅稅率這個部簽看起來他在1月20號就職以後應該會朝這個方向來進行所以我們目前2023看起來是400多億塊500億那我們是不是所謂的不公平貿易國家在我們的認知裡面我們會被列為不公平貿易國家\n\n01:13.302 --> 01:34.752\n這個部分其實在上週的時候我們的召委在委會有提到專案報告我們覺得要關注這個議題沒錯這個是非常有可能的也就是說我們對他的這個差順差一直在擴大的話所以我們現在是一個要等著給保護費然後不知道保護費夠不夠的國家我們一直在插雷彈\n\n01:36.512 --> 01:57.438\n關務署這邊我們有所謂的關稅也是我們的工具那目前為止如果按照川普他們的智庫提出來的有幾個國家第一個是中國第二印度歐盟臺灣越南跟泰國如果按照他們的標準要提升所謂的平均關稅差距的話嚴重影響的大概是印度他會提升到88%\n\n01:59.558 --> 02:23.806\n逆差將近會減少88%臺灣更嚴重會影響到59%第三名是越南44%也就是說他對中國的逆差還沒有像我們這個差距來的這麼大所以其實公研院我們也很擔心接下去會影響到的關稅我想請問一下如果他們提升關稅部長我們有沒有相對應的武器可以使用\n\n02:26.271 --> 02:39.023\n他們對我們加徵關稅,我們也可以對他加徵關稅嗎?我覺得這個部分變成是一個貿易的一個互相的一個報復。那我們看到我們輸出到美國的主要的產品裡面\n\n02:39.926 --> 02:40.046\n臺灣的關稅沒什麼用是嗎?\n\n03:07.053 --> 03:20.524\n因為我們是WTO的會員,所以相關的稅率我們是按照部委的...那他提升之後WTO不會對他們做處理嗎?不會,因為美國太強了。來,署長,你有什麼工具?你有辦法嗎?\n\n03:22.060 --> 03:50.158\n報告委員我們的那個稅率都是立法院要三讀通過是所以我們立法院要幫你的忙否則你沒有工具是嗎就是各部會如果評估的話這個是我們接下去要做相關的處理重點是我再講一條一次要付保護費要知道自己要付什麼保護費然後我們有什麼因應之道有什麼辦法可以應對我想這個是我們今天關心的焦點好嗎好署長請回我想請部長留步那請賦稅署署長\n\n03:51.957 --> 03:52.037\n國產署署長\n\n03:57.455 --> 04:24.451\n部長其實我們在司法院的統計裡面看到最高行政法院他其實有非常多行政訴訟的狀況那行政訴訟的數量裡面統計出來對第一名的叫做土地事件大概有118件的行政訴訟那這是最高法院稅捐事件大概是113件這兩個就將近佔了三成到四成所以土地事件稅捐事件大概都是財政部的案子對吧\n\n04:25.322 --> 04:43.830\n你們一年有多少相關的訴訟案件?您是指司法院裡面還是行政法院裡面?司法院統計年報最高行政法院有統計第一名叫土地第二名叫稅捐第一個跟委員報告國產署這個部分大概他是屬於私權的部分所以他應該是走民事訴訟的部分\n\n04:44.250 --> 05:09.485\n在行政救濟的部分其實大部分他不會走到行政救濟那邊來所以土地的案件大概土地的案件大概可能就是屬於一般的民事案件大概跟國產署之間的其實應該沒有那麼大的高的數量我們現在統計的是行政訴訟案對行政訴訟來說土地的案件應該不會在國產署這邊的沒關係我現在問你一年要花有多少這樣的訴訟件數復稅數就復稅的部分請署長來就統計數字\n\n05:13.448 --> 05:26.842\n我跟委員報告目前我們手上的統計數字就是打到行政訴訟的如果是中央稅的部分佔比是大概百分之我以112年度為例大概佔比是8.45%就2744件裡面屬於稅捐案件是232件\n\n05:31.667 --> 06:00.283\n那地方的部分呢是2319件裡面稅捐的案件17件占比是0.73%相對的是說國產署還有賦稅署其實跟民眾的官司其實不少那在112年的時候行政院曾經頒定一個計畫就是有關律師法跟專計轉任公務員條例增訂了所謂機關跟公立學校可以設置所謂的公職律師的制度部長\n\n06:01.663 --> 06:24.372\n這個公職律師的制度要延攬一定職業經歷的律師來機關裡面提供相關的服務還有參與法律案的研議但是在112年提出這個計畫之後財政部如果依照你們有這麼多的相關的訴訟也好不管是民事的還是行政訴訟你有考慮引進行政院這樣的計畫嗎\n\n06:26.636 --> 06:55.034\n目前為止好像只有衛福部還有國防部有來申請財政部從頭到尾連提計畫都沒有是嗎對我們大概調查過其實認為沒有這樣的一個需要因為目前相關的我們相關的訴訟會由我們內部的法務人員來做如果有需要的話也會委請外部的律師所以部長我想問一下請你統計你現在所有的機關你一年有花了多少相關的費用在請律師\n\n06:56.630 --> 07:06.917\n所以如果按照你剛剛講的那些訴訟因為行政訴訟是律師強制代理所以如果有的話是不是會變成負稅署他的一個負擔\n\n07:10.078 --> 07:33.428\n這個部分我們來調查一下相關我們在……所以我的意思是說行政院有這樣的計畫相關的單位有提出需求但是我們看到可能最多行政訴訟的機關叫財政部但是他們完全不甩這個行政院這個機制有點奇怪啦這個機制難道我們行政院推動來之後自己的機關都不願意參與喔這很奇怪\n\n07:35.409 --> 08:02.370\n我現在看到教育部還希望有17個內政部2個國防部3個財政部0個欸財政部有這麼多行政訴訟拜託我覺得公職律師如果是有需要的話其實可以節省我們的成本而且也可以讓更多在你的內部就可以做相關的處理如果你花的錢可以請到公職律師在裡面可以節省掉成本第二個也可以增加\n\n08:03.547 --> 08:23.932\n期關參與行政院推出這個法案推出這個計畫的好意啊好不好所以財政部所來不考慮行政院這個計畫不是不考慮我們還是要瞭解一下第一個就是實際的效益情況112年到現在了已經推了一年多了我們也調查過只有國防部還有衛福部所以其他的機關我覺得財政部也應該參與討論好嗎這是你算一算你每年花的錢跟你\n\n08:31.997 --> 08:44.435\n用公職律師花的錢還有效益上面我覺得希望你們做個評估尤其是你們訴訟大概是全部機關裡面應該是最多的我們在效益的部分再來考量\n\n08:45.748 --> 09:06.644\n那就麻煩一個月之內把這個部分回覆給我最後一個問題就是部長你這幾天大概都在討論財化法的問題啦財化法現在國民黨的修法版本好像還沒有確定但是民進黨還有行政院目前也是不推動相關的修法但是部長在今年11月\n\n09:08.685 --> 09:27.042\n蕭美琴副總統曾經參與了工商總會的慶祝大會。工商總會在2023、2024的全國工業總會白皮書裡面都有明白的提出來他們建議要修正財政收支劃分法。部長有看到他們的白皮書嗎?\n\n09:29.644 --> 09:41.340\n財務法的修正,相關的黨團有提出...所以如果說執政黨要用在野黨修財務法是為了掏空國家所以也是把工業總會列為掏空國家的一個對象嗎?\n\n09:44.089 --> 10:00.841\n最主要是說因為在沒有完整的討論審慎的規劃之前所以我們希望你們完整討論希望你們審慎規劃但是不是提出修正意見就是掏空國家我要再次強調工業總會也提一樣的意見財政部不要再假裝沒看見\n\n10:06.878 --> 10:27.069\n這個白皮書已經2023、2024的白皮書都已經做成而且副總統也是參加工業總會的慶祝大會我想還是一樣接下去財委會包括院會都會處理財化法我希望部長你們還是要提出你們認為多少的垂直分配是可以接受的\n\n10:27.589 --> 10:40.820\n如果在一個國家可以超徵4千億的情況下補足2千多億讓地方政府能夠多一點財源並不是萬惡不赦部長我希望在我們協商之前可以看到行政院的版本\n\n10:42.163 --> 10:49.489\n跟委員報告還是講財化法的修正要審慎的規劃而且要充分的討論目前的期限還是非常大的是因為在事權跟錢權必須要相配合的來做討論但是事權完全沒有討論而是只有權權的部分來做討論的話\n\n11:10.582 --> 11:12.709\n謝謝黃珊珊委員接著我們請吳立華委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":2.15,"text":"臺灣跟美國2023到現在的這些所謂的貿易情勢,我們逆差大概有多少?一年的逆差?對美國"},{"start":35.2,"end":44.393,"text":"在歷年來說其實我們對美國的差一直是在提升的就對美國的出口是在擴張的是的 所以從川普他"},{"start":46.885,"end":71.958,"text":"進選時候的政見包括他對於所謂科徵基本關稅進一步提高不公平國家的關稅稅率這個部簽看起來他在1月20號就職以後應該會朝這個方向來進行所以我們目前2023看起來是400多億塊500億那我們是不是所謂的不公平貿易國家在我們的認知裡面我們會被列為不公平貿易國家"},{"start":73.302,"end":94.752,"text":"這個部分其實在上週的時候我們的召委在委會有提到專案報告我們覺得要關注這個議題沒錯這個是非常有可能的也就是說我們對他的這個差順差一直在擴大的話所以我們現在是一個要等著給保護費然後不知道保護費夠不夠的國家我們一直在插雷彈"},{"start":96.512,"end":117.438,"text":"關務署這邊我們有所謂的關稅也是我們的工具那目前為止如果按照川普他們的智庫提出來的有幾個國家第一個是中國第二印度歐盟臺灣越南跟泰國如果按照他們的標準要提升所謂的平均關稅差距的話嚴重影響的大概是印度他會提升到88%"},{"start":119.558,"end":143.806,"text":"逆差將近會減少88%臺灣更嚴重會影響到59%第三名是越南44%也就是說他對中國的逆差還沒有像我們這個差距來的這麼大所以其實公研院我們也很擔心接下去會影響到的關稅我想請問一下如果他們提升關稅部長我們有沒有相對應的武器可以使用"},{"start":146.271,"end":159.023,"text":"他們對我們加徵關稅,我們也可以對他加徵關稅嗎?我覺得這個部分變成是一個貿易的一個互相的一個報復。那我們看到我們輸出到美國的主要的產品裡面"},{"start":159.926,"end":160.046,"text":"臺灣的關稅沒什麼用是嗎?"},{"start":187.053,"end":200.524,"text":"因為我們是WTO的會員,所以相關的稅率我們是按照部委的...那他提升之後WTO不會對他們做處理嗎?不會,因為美國太強了。來,署長,你有什麼工具?你有辦法嗎?"},{"start":202.06,"end":230.158,"text":"報告委員我們的那個稅率都是立法院要三讀通過是所以我們立法院要幫你的忙否則你沒有工具是嗎就是各部會如果評估的話這個是我們接下去要做相關的處理重點是我再講一條一次要付保護費要知道自己要付什麼保護費然後我們有什麼因應之道有什麼辦法可以應對我想這個是我們今天關心的焦點好嗎好署長請回我想請部長留步那請賦稅署署長"},{"start":231.957,"end":232.037,"text":"國產署署長"},{"start":237.455,"end":264.451,"text":"部長其實我們在司法院的統計裡面看到最高行政法院他其實有非常多行政訴訟的狀況那行政訴訟的數量裡面統計出來對第一名的叫做土地事件大概有118件的行政訴訟那這是最高法院稅捐事件大概是113件這兩個就將近佔了三成到四成所以土地事件稅捐事件大概都是財政部的案子對吧"},{"start":265.322,"end":283.83,"text":"你們一年有多少相關的訴訟案件?您是指司法院裡面還是行政法院裡面?司法院統計年報最高行政法院有統計第一名叫土地第二名叫稅捐第一個跟委員報告國產署這個部分大概他是屬於私權的部分所以他應該是走民事訴訟的部分"},{"start":284.25,"end":309.485,"text":"在行政救濟的部分其實大部分他不會走到行政救濟那邊來所以土地的案件大概土地的案件大概可能就是屬於一般的民事案件大概跟國產署之間的其實應該沒有那麼大的高的數量我們現在統計的是行政訴訟案對行政訴訟來說土地的案件應該不會在國產署這邊的沒關係我現在問你一年要花有多少這樣的訴訟件數復稅數就復稅的部分請署長來就統計數字"},{"start":313.448,"end":326.842,"text":"我跟委員報告目前我們手上的統計數字就是打到行政訴訟的如果是中央稅的部分佔比是大概百分之我以112年度為例大概佔比是8.45%就2744件裡面屬於稅捐案件是232件"},{"start":331.667,"end":360.283,"text":"那地方的部分呢是2319件裡面稅捐的案件17件占比是0.73%相對的是說國產署還有賦稅署其實跟民眾的官司其實不少那在112年的時候行政院曾經頒定一個計畫就是有關律師法跟專計轉任公務員條例增訂了所謂機關跟公立學校可以設置所謂的公職律師的制度部長"},{"start":361.663,"end":384.372,"text":"這個公職律師的制度要延攬一定職業經歷的律師來機關裡面提供相關的服務還有參與法律案的研議但是在112年提出這個計畫之後財政部如果依照你們有這麼多的相關的訴訟也好不管是民事的還是行政訴訟你有考慮引進行政院這樣的計畫嗎"},{"start":386.636,"end":415.034,"text":"目前為止好像只有衛福部還有國防部有來申請財政部從頭到尾連提計畫都沒有是嗎對我們大概調查過其實認為沒有這樣的一個需要因為目前相關的我們相關的訴訟會由我們內部的法務人員來做如果有需要的話也會委請外部的律師所以部長我想問一下請你統計你現在所有的機關你一年有花了多少相關的費用在請律師"},{"start":416.63,"end":426.917,"text":"所以如果按照你剛剛講的那些訴訟因為行政訴訟是律師強制代理所以如果有的話是不是會變成負稅署他的一個負擔"},{"start":430.078,"end":453.428,"text":"這個部分我們來調查一下相關我們在……所以我的意思是說行政院有這樣的計畫相關的單位有提出需求但是我們看到可能最多行政訴訟的機關叫財政部但是他們完全不甩這個行政院這個機制有點奇怪啦這個機制難道我們行政院推動來之後自己的機關都不願意參與喔這很奇怪"},{"start":455.409,"end":482.37,"text":"我現在看到教育部還希望有17個內政部2個國防部3個財政部0個欸財政部有這麼多行政訴訟拜託我覺得公職律師如果是有需要的話其實可以節省我們的成本而且也可以讓更多在你的內部就可以做相關的處理如果你花的錢可以請到公職律師在裡面可以節省掉成本第二個也可以增加"},{"start":483.547,"end":503.932,"text":"期關參與行政院推出這個法案推出這個計畫的好意啊好不好所以財政部所來不考慮行政院這個計畫不是不考慮我們還是要瞭解一下第一個就是實際的效益情況112年到現在了已經推了一年多了我們也調查過只有國防部還有衛福部所以其他的機關我覺得財政部也應該參與討論好嗎這是你算一算你每年花的錢跟你"},{"start":511.997,"end":524.435,"text":"用公職律師花的錢還有效益上面我覺得希望你們做個評估尤其是你們訴訟大概是全部機關裡面應該是最多的我們在效益的部分再來考量"},{"start":525.748,"end":546.644,"text":"那就麻煩一個月之內把這個部分回覆給我最後一個問題就是部長你這幾天大概都在討論財化法的問題啦財化法現在國民黨的修法版本好像還沒有確定但是民進黨還有行政院目前也是不推動相關的修法但是部長在今年11月"},{"start":548.685,"end":567.042,"text":"蕭美琴副總統曾經參與了工商總會的慶祝大會。工商總會在2023、2024的全國工業總會白皮書裡面都有明白的提出來他們建議要修正財政收支劃分法。部長有看到他們的白皮書嗎?"},{"start":569.644,"end":581.34,"text":"財務法的修正,相關的黨團有提出...所以如果說執政黨要用在野黨修財務法是為了掏空國家所以也是把工業總會列為掏空國家的一個對象嗎?"},{"start":584.089,"end":600.841,"text":"最主要是說因為在沒有完整的討論審慎的規劃之前所以我們希望你們完整討論希望你們審慎規劃但是不是提出修正意見就是掏空國家我要再次強調工業總會也提一樣的意見財政部不要再假裝沒看見"},{"start":606.878,"end":627.069,"text":"這個白皮書已經2023、2024的白皮書都已經做成而且副總統也是參加工業總會的慶祝大會我想還是一樣接下去財委會包括院會都會處理財化法我希望部長你們還是要提出你們認為多少的垂直分配是可以接受的"},{"start":627.589,"end":640.82,"text":"如果在一個國家可以超徵4千億的情況下補足2千多億讓地方政府能夠多一點財源並不是萬惡不赦部長我希望在我們協商之前可以看到行政院的版本"},{"start":642.163,"end":649.489,"text":"跟委員報告還是講財化法的修正要審慎的規劃而且要充分的討論目前的期限還是非常大的是因為在事權跟錢權必須要相配合的來做討論但是事權完全沒有討論而是只有權權的部分來做討論的話"},{"start":670.582,"end":672.709,"text":"謝謝黃珊珊委員 接著我們請吳立華委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":963,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時36分）謝謝主席，我想請部長，還有關務署署長。"],["主席：莊部長、彭署長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長、署長，我想大家都在討論川普上臺之後未來的局勢，臺灣跟美國自2023年到現在所謂的貿易情勢，我們逆差大概有多少？一年的逆差。"],["莊部長翠雲：對美國？"],["黃委員珊珊：對美國！"],["莊部長翠雲：對美國，目前1到10月有大概五百多億。"],["黃委員珊珊：五百多億嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，在歷年……"],["黃委員珊珊：你可能要對著麥克風說。"],["莊部長翠雲：在歷年來說，其實我們對美國的差一直是在提升的，就是對美國的出口是在擴增的。"],["黃委員珊珊：是的，所以從川普在競選時候的政見，包括他對於所謂課徵基本關稅進一步提高不公平國家的關稅稅率，這個目前看起來，他在1月20號就職以後應該會朝這個方向來進行。所以2023年看起來是四百多億，快五百億，那我們是不是所謂的不公平貿易國家？在我們的認知裡面，我們會不會被列為不公平貿易國家？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分其實在上週的時候，我們在財委會有提出專案報告，我們覺得要關注這個議題。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯，這個是非常有可能的。"],["莊部長翠雲：也就是說，我們對它的順差一直再擴大的話。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我們現在是一個要等著給保護費，然後不知道保護費夠不夠的國家，我們一直在「剉咧等」！關務署這邊，我們有所謂的關稅，也是我們的工具，目前為止，如果按照川普他們的智庫提出來的有幾個國家，第一個是中國，第二是印度、歐盟、臺灣、越南跟泰國，如果按照他們的標準，要提升所謂的平均關稅差距的話，嚴重影響的大概是印度，它會提升到88%，逆差將近會減少88%，臺灣也滿嚴重的，會影響到59%，第三名是越南44%；也就是說，它對中國的逆差還沒有像我們這個差距來得這麼大，所以，其實工研院、我們也很擔心接下來會影響到的關稅，我想請問一下，如果他們提升關稅，部長，我們有沒有相對應的武器可以使用？如果他們對我們加徵關稅，我們也可以對他加徵關稅嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我覺得這個部分變成是一個貿易的互相報復，我們看到我們輸出到美國的主要產品裡面是AI相關……"],["黃委員珊珊：AI這個影響比較大。"],["莊部長翠雲：他們的需要量很大，所以他們內部變成是要承受高關稅，所以相對他們的成本就提高。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我只問我們有沒有工具？我們有沒有方法？我們在我們的關稅上面有沒有一些相對應的工具可以使用，而去讓這件事情不要發生？這是我關心的！所以我們臺灣的關稅沒什麼用，是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是這麼說──沒什麼用，因為我們是WTO會員國。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯，那他也是啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：所以相關稅率我們是按照互惠……"],["黃委員珊珊：那他提升之後，WTO不會對他們做處理嗎？不會！因為美國太強了？","來，署長，你有什麼工具？你有辦法嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，我們的稅率都是立法院要三讀通過。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，所以我們立法院要幫你的忙，否則，你沒有工具，是嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：就是各部會如果評估有需要的話……"],["黃委員珊珊：這個是我們接下去要做相關的處理……"],["彭署長英偉：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：重點是我再強調一次，要付保護費，也要知道自己要付什麼保護費，還有我們有什麼因應之道，有什麼辦法可以應對，我想這個是我們今天關心的焦點，好嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：是，好。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，署長請回。我想請部長留步，另請賦稅署署長，還有國產署署長。","部長，我們在司法院的統計裡面看到最高行政法院其實有非常多行政訴訟的狀況，行政訴訟的數量裡面統計出來，第一名的叫做土地事件，大概有118件，這是最高法院的，稅捐事件大概是113件，這兩個就占了將近三成到四成，土地事件、稅捐事件大概都是財政部的案子，對吧！你們一年有多少相關的訴訟案件？"],["莊部長翠雲：您是指司法院裡面，還是行政法院裡面？"],["黃委員珊珊：在司法院統計年報，最高行政法院有統計，第一名叫土地，第二名叫稅捐。"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個跟委員報告，國產署這個部分大概是屬於私權的部分，所以應該是走民事訴訟的部分……"],["黃委員珊珊：對。"],["莊部長翠雲：其實大部分不會走到行政救濟裡面來……"],["黃委員珊珊：行政訴訟的部分大概會是國稅局。"],["莊部長翠雲：所以土地的案件大概屬於一般的民事案件，國產署的應該沒有那麼高的數量，稅務的……"],["黃委員珊珊：現在這個統計的是行政訴訟。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，以行政訴訟來說，土地的案件應該在國產署的不會有什麼數量……"],["黃委員珊珊：沒關係，我現在問你一年有多少這樣的訴訟件數？賦稅署。"],["莊部長翠雲：就賦稅的部分，請署長來就統計數字說明。"],["宋署長秀玲：我跟委員報告，目前我們手上的統計數字，就打到行政訴訟的，如果是中央稅的部分，我以112年度為例，大概占比是8.45%，就是2,744件裡面屬於稅捐案件的是232件，地方的部分是2,319件裡面的稅捐案件是17件，占比是0.73%……"],["黃委員珊珊：相對來說，國產署及賦稅署跟民眾的官司其實不少。在112年的時候，行政院曾經頒訂一個計畫，就是有關律師法與專技轉任公務人員條例增訂了機關及公立學校可以設置所謂公職律師的制度，部長，這個公職律師的制度要延攬一定執業經歷的律師來機關裡面提供相關的服務，還有參與法律案的研議，但是在112年提出這個計畫之後，財政部，依照你們有這麼多的相關訴訟，不管是民事的，還是行政訴訟也好，你有考慮引進行政院這樣的計畫嗎？目前為止，好像只有衛福部，還有國防部，有來申請，財政部從頭到尾連提計畫都沒有，是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們大概調查過，認為沒有這樣的需要，因為我們目前相關的……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以賦稅署也沒有必要，打這麼多官司也沒必要？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們相關的訴訟會由內部的法務人員來做，如果有需要的話，也會委請外部的律師，我們另外用採購法的方式，個案的來處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，部長，我想問一下，請你統計你現在所有的機關一年花了多少相關的費用在請律師？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們來統計一下，可以啊！"],["黃委員珊珊：如果按照你剛剛講的，因為行政訴訟是律師強制代理，所以如果有的話，是不是會變成賦稅署的負擔？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，這個部分，我們來調查一下我們在執行上訴訟……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我的意思是行政院有這樣的計畫，相關的單位也有提出需求，但是我們看到可能最多行政訴訟的機關叫財政部，他們完全不甩行政院這個機制，有點奇怪啦！難道行政院推動這個機制之後，自己的機關都不願意參與，這很奇怪耶！"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們再來……"],["黃委員珊珊：我現在看到，教育部還希望有17個，內政部2個，國防部3個，財政部0個耶！財政部有這麼多行政訴訟，拜託！我覺得公職律師如果有需要的話，其實可以節省我們的成本，也可以讓更多在你內部就可以做相關處理，如果你花的錢可以在裡面請到公職律師就可以節省掉成本，第二個、也可以增加機關參與行政院推出這個計畫的好意，好不好？所以財政部從來不考慮行政院這個計畫？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是不考慮，我們還是要瞭解一下，第一個就是實際的效益情況……"],["黃委員珊珊：112年到現在，已經推了1年多了……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們已經有調查過……"],["黃委員珊珊：只有國防部，還有衛福部，其他的機關，我覺得財政部也應該參與討論，好嗎？這是……"],["莊部長翠雲：好的，我們回去再研議。"],["黃委員珊珊：你算一算你們每一年花的錢及你用公職律師花的錢，還有效益上面，我希望你們做評估，尤其是你們的訴訟應該是全部機關裡面最多的，好嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：不會吧！我們就效益的部分再來考量。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，就麻煩1個月之內把這個部分回復給我。","最後一個問題，部長，你這幾天大概都在討論財劃法的問題，現在國民黨的財劃法修法版本好像還沒有確定，民進黨還有行政院目前也是不推動相關修法，部長，但是在今年11月蕭美琴副總統曾經參與了工業總會的慶祝大會，工業總會在2023、2024的全國工業總會白皮書裡面都有明白的提出來，他們建議要修正財政收支劃分法，部長有看到他們的白皮書嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我瞭解，財劃法的修正，相關的黨團也提出版本……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以如果執政黨要說在野黨修財劃法是為了掏空國家，是把工業總會也列為掏空國家的一個對象嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是這麼說，最主要是因為在沒有完整的討論、審慎的規劃之前，倉促的提出其實並不好……"],["黃委員珊珊：是，所以我們希望你們完整討論，希望你們審慎規劃，但是不是提出修正意見就是掏空國家，我要再次強調，工業總會也提一樣的意見，財政部不要再假裝沒看見……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們沒有假裝沒看見……"],["黃委員珊珊：工業總會2023、2024的白皮書都已經做成，而且副總統也去參加工業總會的慶祝大會，我想還是一樣，接下去財委會，包括院會，都會處理財劃法，部長，我希望你們還是要提出你們認為多少的垂直分配是可以接受的，如果在一個國家可以超徵4,000億的情況下，補足二千多億，讓地方政府能夠多一點財源，並不是萬惡不赦！部長，我希望在我們協商之前可以看到行政院的版本。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，還是講財劃法的修正要審慎的規劃，而且要充分的討論，目前的歧見還是非常大……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以不要再說提出修法意見就是掏空國家，否則，你就是把工總也列為掏空國家的元凶喔！"],["莊部長翠雲：不是，因為事權與錢權必須要相配合的來做討論，但是事權完全沒有討論，而是只就錢權的部分來做討論……"],["黃委員珊珊：好，部長，聽聽外界的意見，聽聽大家的意見，聽聽全部人的意見，不是只有在野黨的意見。以上。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員。接著請伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-9","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","羅明才","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-11-18"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國\n稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬、關務署及所屬、國有財產署及所屬歲出預\n算部分暨融資財源調度（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310101_00003"}}}