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00:00:44,803\n委員好,張代主委我來修正一下我們副主委八月十六陳中陽主委就任不到一年突然請辭那他有說是因為他的個人的生涯規劃然後歸建大學回去了但是外界還是眾說紛紜因為畢竟這個時間這麼短暫就離開尤其目前我們政府對於核能發電的態度我們可以看得到他是反反覆覆所以大家都無所適從\n\n3\n00:00:45,824 --> 00:00:56,965\n您現在做代理主委也一段時間了,您有沒有感受到萊斯高城對於核電太多的相關指示或者是相關的壓力?目前沒有收到任何指示跟壓力那您的態度呢?\n\n4\n00:00:58,103 --> 00:01:20,418\n基本上我就是依照目前依法完成這個進行我們的相關的管制工作。好,我想依據喔,這個剛剛當然洪孟凱委員有問過啦,這個核安會的組織法喔,核安會這個5到7人,主委、副主委都是行政院長這個來任命喔,那目前主委已經選缺兩個月了喔,那先不管您到底會被徵處啦,不過剛剛您的意思說你都沒有被問到,對嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:23,243 --> 00:01:30,609\n我沒有任何的這個指示或壓力都沒有沒有任何訊息都沒有任何訊息那有去問過別人嗎我就是做好我目前的任務\n\n6\n00:01:39,974 --> 00:01:40,174\n主委是否有問題?\n\n7\n00:01:58,974 --> 00:02:24,827\n目前因為是代理主委的工作所以就是代理主委的工作所以相關的同仁我們所有的團隊都會是齊心的把該做的工作做好好齊心很重要好那麼卓院長在前幾天我看他接受這個彭博新聞的一個專訪他提到了很多那其中我把它歸類一下那意思他就是說因為現在要因應AI還有半導體的用電需求\n\n8\n00:02:25,347 --> 00:02:47,607\n所以只要台灣對於核安還有核廢料處理的方向得以大家有共識政府對於新的核能技術的態度非常開放並且還有一點很重要就是他要求要留任廚藝核電廠的員工這一些都被解讀是對核電的態度在轉彎您的認知跟看法是?\n\n9\n00:02:49,011 --> 00:03:02,848\n我想院長對於這個核能的這個說明在之前他都有親自做了說明基本上我們就是依照現在目前的規劃來執行我們的工作那個副主委啊我想我再問你就不要再轉述院長了好嗎\n\n10\n00:03:04,930 --> 00:03:24,060\n在新核能的部分其實我們是有國研院在做相關的研究主委你可能真的要針對本席的這個問題我的問題很清楚就是說以上這些談話是不是一種對於核電的態度轉彎了尤其是本席看到要留任廚藝的核電廠員工\n\n11\n00:03:26,181 --> 00:03:34,267\n那這看起來也說了是要為將來這個核能技術的發展要做一個好的準備去因應任何的修法所以是不是這就是一種對核電態度的轉彎\n\n12\n00:03:36,345 --> 00:03:38,645\n您認為?所以你沒有感受到有任何的轉彎或是不一樣?好,好來我們繼續那其中卓院長他有提了一個就是說\n\n13\n00:04:03,650 --> 00:04:14,833\n關於核能安全和核廢料處理的部分是他一直在提的但我想其實我們核安會我們的法定職責跟設立的目的一直以來其實就是核能安全還有核廢料的處理那過去的40年其實也都處理得很好也沒有發生什麼事情也就是說我們看到過去在台灣運轉的核一、核二、核三\n\n14\n00:04:27,176 --> 00:04:40,743\n都在核安會的確保之下安全運轉了40年所以其實本席跟很多的人其實是相信核安會的專業的那核安會自己本身有沒有辦法保證所有核能的運用都會安全才來使用可以保證嗎都會安全才會使用\n\n15\n00:04:46,074 --> 00:05:14,239\n基本上你不要再基本上了喔是不是都會安全才會使用這點是是還是不是只要回答我是還是不是符合安全管制的話是可以使用那你就回答我一個是就好了嘛好不好我想喔我終於知道為什麼沒有人來詢問你這個有沒有爭取的問題了我覺得要再專業一點必須要再對自己有自信一點啦否則在這個位置上面你怎麼領導大家微微諾諾的什麼事情不敢回答顧左右而言他到底是上層給你壓力還是你的專業不足啊\n\n16\n00:05:18,316 --> 00:05:38,893\n您剛都說到了不管是核能安全核配料的處理其實是過去我們大家專業一直在做但是我們看到卓院長其實一直在質疑一直對核安衛的專業是沒有信心的那我想希望我們代理主委可能要再加油一點我不知道你會代理多久但是希望能夠讓卓院長對你稍微有信心一點\n\n17\n00:05:39,794 --> 00:06:02,797\n再來我們看到在核廢料處理的部分在上一周我看您報告也有講到10月23號核一廠首次要將使用過的燃料棒從燃料池移到這個室外的乾儲設施也進行熱測是一個月了嘛那目前的狀況是怎麼樣熱測是有兩組要做那目前第一組的這個運儲已經完成了那全程我們都有去做檢查所以第一組已經到位\n\n18\n00:06:03,677 --> 00:06:23,810\n所以也算是有一個好的開始所以我想核安委應該要更積極一點來督導我們台電來繼續推動那但是今天要提到一個我想因為現在AI的用量大增然後再加上這個淨零碳排我們看到歐美很多先進的國家都已經重返核電使用了就連我相信您一定知道1979年\n\n19\n00:06:25,471 --> 00:06:49,491\n曾經發生二號機核心融毀以及一號機小部分受損的三里島核電廠他都已經預計要在2028年重啟一號機的發電那甚至於連這個微軟公司他其實跟在三里島核電廠的母公司就是美國人和能源都還簽下了20年的一個購電的協議所以我想再再顯示目前不管是科技業者或者尋求這個淨零轉型\n\n20\n00:06:51,092 --> 00:06:57,218\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n\n21\n00:07:14,142 --> 00:07:38,476\n當會一定會做好我們的安全管制督導的責任好那接下來我向本席帶來請教你今年的6月22號我們看到南韓慶州市的悅城核電廠發生了這個儲存池洩漏的事件然後有2.3噸的這個儲存水流入了海洋然後日本福島核電廠也在8月9號也發現了這個這個輻射水外洩25噸那這件事情核安會知道嗎\n\n22\n00:07:40,260 --> 00:08:04,946\n這件事情我們要持續在關注國際上的事情所以您知道對嗎?知道嗎?對,知道所以何安慰在,您知道但是我看到在網站最新的消息當中完全沒有揭露這件事啊所以呢這個是刻意要做隱瞞還是你覺得這件事不太重要還是什麼原因沒有去揭露啊那這個這兩案據你了解的輻射水外洩的原因是什麼?\n\n23\n00:08:06,977 --> 00:08:31,635\n報告委員只知道它是發燃料池有發生洩漏然後流入海洋因為我們持續去追蹤它相關的資訊非常少因為它相關的資訊非常少所以我們持續都在追蹤當中但是有這件事嘛對不對那是不是應該也是要揭露我想這個主委要去考量一下那再來呢你說你有去追蹤嘛那追蹤出來的結果有什麼是可以作為我們自己將來核電廠的借鏡\n\n24\n00:08:33,716 --> 00:08:33,857\n議員主席議員\n\n25\n00:08:50,740 --> 00:09:12,745\n我想主委這兩案其實很重要我想這個訊息要能夠掌握然後要能夠追蹤這一定要往下做下去但是還有一個在上個會期本席就問過說目前我們國內沒有檢測碳14跟碳129的能力這件事已經說了很久了但是事實上碳14跟碳129都會對人體造成危害那核安會說今年會開始推動智慧檢測的計畫來補齊碳14跟碳129的檢測能力那目前的進度是什麼\n\n26\n00:09:19,787 --> 00:09:32,362\n我們已經在進行當中今年我們是應該是要完成碳14檢測能力的建置然後明年是進行點129檢測能力的建置那在這個空窗期當中我們要怎麼確保民眾的安全\n\n27\n00:09:34,045 --> 00:10:02,012\n基本上因為碳14跟碳129這個檢測能力的這個問題的起源是在於這日本福島之後的川沸水的排放的發生那基本上我們在源頭的部分事實上在碳14跟碳129的部分都是在...欸主委啊我真的覺得你今天的答詢你自己回去看看帶子好好檢討一下本席問你的是啊空窗期要怎麼確保民眾的安全你跟我講源頭講一大堆你到底專不專業啊你告訴我空窗期怎麼處理啊\n\n28\n00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:05,321\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案\n\n29\n00:10:25,970 --> 00:10:36,888\n我沒有在問你排放嘛拜託一下好不好主委今天問你是說你現在明年才要建制後年才要建制那這空窗期怎麼處理怎麼維護我們國民的安全嘛健康安全嘛\n\n30\n00:10:38,732 --> 00:11:02,399\n事後口頭或書面好好的回答萬委員好嗎主席能不能讓他回答一下能怎麼做簡單的講都好總之要回答一下好基本上因為最主要的影響是川這部分我們已經建立了海洋資訊的一個跨部會的平台我們持續都有定期取樣檢測所以目前都在運動輻射標準\n\n31\n00:11:05,521 --> 00:11:14,786\n因為整個所含的元素裡面其實最大的影響是川的部分所以你認為這其他兩個元素沒有影響\n\n32\n00:11:16,229 --> 00:11:21,091\n在源頭排放的時候它是符合國際標準的才排放的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8764\t11881\t謝謝主席,我們有請副主委有請張代主委\n18345\t44803\t委員好,張代主委我來修正一下我們副主委八月十六陳中陽主委就任不到一年突然請辭那他有說是因為他的個人的生涯規劃然後歸建大學回去了但是外界還是眾說紛紜因為畢竟這個時間這麼短暫就離開尤其目前我們政府對於核能發電的態度我們可以看得到他是反反覆覆所以大家都無所適從\n45824\t56965\t您現在做代理主委也一段時間了,您有沒有感受到萊斯高城對於核電太多的相關指示或者是相關的壓力?目前沒有收到任何指示跟壓力那您的態度呢?\n58103\t80418\t基本上我就是依照目前依法完成這個進行我們的相關的管制工作。好,我想依據喔,這個剛剛當然洪孟凱委員有問過啦,這個核安會的組織法喔,核安會這個5到7人,主委、副主委都是行政院長這個來任命喔,那目前主委已經選缺兩個月了喔,那先不管您到底會被徵處啦,不過剛剛您的意思說你都沒有被問到,對嗎?\n83243\t90609\t我沒有任何的這個指示或壓力都沒有沒有任何訊息都沒有任何訊息那有去問過別人嗎我就是做好我目前的任務\n99974\t100174\t主委是否有問題?\n118974\t144827\t目前因為是代理主委的工作所以就是代理主委的工作所以相關的同仁我們所有的團隊都會是齊心的把該做的工作做好好齊心很重要好那麼卓院長在前幾天我看他接受這個彭博新聞的一個專訪他提到了很多那其中我把它歸類一下那意思他就是說因為現在要因應AI還有半導體的用電需求\n145347\t167607\t所以只要台灣對於核安還有核廢料處理的方向得以大家有共識政府對於新的核能技術的態度非常開放並且還有一點很重要就是他要求要留任廚藝核電廠的員工這一些都被解讀是對核電的態度在轉彎您的認知跟看法是?\n169011\t182848\t我想院長對於這個核能的這個說明在之前他都有親自做了說明基本上我們就是依照現在目前的規劃來執行我們的工作那個副主委啊我想我再問你就不要再轉述院長了好嗎\n184930\t204060\t在新核能的部分其實我們是有國研院在做相關的研究主委你可能真的要針對本席的這個問題我的問題很清楚就是說以上這些談話是不是一種對於核電的態度轉彎了尤其是本席看到要留任廚藝的核電廠員工\n206181\t214267\t那這看起來也說了是要為將來這個核能技術的發展要做一個好的準備去因應任何的修法所以是不是這就是一種對核電態度的轉彎\n216345\t218645\t您認為?所以你沒有感受到有任何的轉彎或是不一樣?好,好來我們繼續那其中卓院長他有提了一個就是說\n243650\t254833\t關於核能安全和核廢料處理的部分是他一直在提的但我想其實我們核安會我們的法定職責跟設立的目的一直以來其實就是核能安全還有核廢料的處理那過去的40年其實也都處理得很好也沒有發生什麼事情也就是說我們看到過去在台灣運轉的核一、核二、核三\n267176\t280743\t都在核安會的確保之下安全運轉了40年所以其實本席跟很多的人其實是相信核安會的專業的那核安會自己本身有沒有辦法保證所有核能的運用都會安全才來使用可以保證嗎都會安全才會使用\n286074\t314239\t基本上你不要再基本上了喔是不是都會安全才會使用這點是是還是不是只要回答我是還是不是符合安全管制的話是可以使用那你就回答我一個是就好了嘛好不好我想喔我終於知道為什麼沒有人來詢問你這個有沒有爭取的問題了我覺得要再專業一點必須要再對自己有自信一點啦否則在這個位置上面你怎麼領導大家微微諾諾的什麼事情不敢回答顧左右而言他到底是上層給你壓力還是你的專業不足啊\n318316\t338893\t您剛都說到了不管是核能安全核配料的處理其實是過去我們大家專業一直在做但是我們看到卓院長其實一直在質疑一直對核安衛的專業是沒有信心的那我想希望我們代理主委可能要再加油一點我不知道你會代理多久但是希望能夠讓卓院長對你稍微有信心一點\n339794\t362797\t再來我們看到在核廢料處理的部分在上一周我看您報告也有講到10月23號核一廠首次要將使用過的燃料棒從燃料池移到這個室外的乾儲設施也進行熱測是一個月了嘛那目前的狀況是怎麼樣熱測是有兩組要做那目前第一組的這個運儲已經完成了那全程我們都有去做檢查所以第一組已經到位\n363677\t383810\t所以也算是有一個好的開始所以我想核安委應該要更積極一點來督導我們台電來繼續推動那但是今天要提到一個我想因為現在AI的用量大增然後再加上這個淨零碳排我們看到歐美很多先進的國家都已經重返核電使用了就連我相信您一定知道1979年\n385471\t409491\t曾經發生二號機核心融毀以及一號機小部分受損的三里島核電廠他都已經預計要在2028年重啟一號機的發電那甚至於連這個微軟公司他其實跟在三里島核電廠的母公司就是美國人和能源都還簽下了20年的一個購電的協議所以我想再再顯示目前不管是科技業者或者尋求這個淨零轉型\n411092\t417218\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n434142\t458476\t當會一定會做好我們的安全管制督導的責任好那接下來我向本席帶來請教你今年的6月22號我們看到南韓慶州市的悅城核電廠發生了這個儲存池洩漏的事件然後有2.3噸的這個儲存水流入了海洋然後日本福島核電廠也在8月9號也發現了這個這個輻射水外洩25噸那這件事情核安會知道嗎\n460260\t484946\t這件事情我們要持續在關注國際上的事情所以您知道對嗎?知道嗎?對,知道所以何安慰在,您知道但是我看到在網站最新的消息當中完全沒有揭露這件事啊所以呢這個是刻意要做隱瞞還是你覺得這件事不太重要還是什麼原因沒有去揭露啊那這個這兩案據你了解的輻射水外洩的原因是什麼?\n486977\t511635\t報告委員只知道它是發燃料池有發生洩漏然後流入海洋因為我們持續去追蹤它相關的資訊非常少因為它相關的資訊非常少所以我們持續都在追蹤當中但是有這件事嘛對不對那是不是應該也是要揭露我想這個主委要去考量一下那再來呢你說你有去追蹤嘛那追蹤出來的結果有什麼是可以作為我們自己將來核電廠的借鏡\n513716\t513857\t議員主席議員\n530740\t552745\t我想主委這兩案其實很重要我想這個訊息要能夠掌握然後要能夠追蹤這一定要往下做下去但是還有一個在上個會期本席就問過說目前我們國內沒有檢測碳14跟碳129的能力這件事已經說了很久了但是事實上碳14跟碳129都會對人體造成危害那核安會說今年會開始推動智慧檢測的計畫來補齊碳14跟碳129的檢測能力那目前的進度是什麼\n559787\t572362\t我們已經在進行當中今年我們是應該是要完成碳14檢測能力的建置然後明年是進行點129檢測能力的建置那在這個空窗期當中我們要怎麼確保民眾的安全\n574045\t602012\t基本上因為碳14跟碳129這個檢測能力的這個問題的起源是在於這日本福島之後的川沸水的排放的發生那基本上我們在源頭的部分事實上在碳14跟碳129的部分都是在...欸主委啊我真的覺得你今天的答詢你自己回去看看帶子好好檢討一下本席問你的是啊空窗期要怎麼確保民眾的安全你跟我講源頭講一大堆你到底專不專業啊你告訴我空窗期怎麼處理啊\n603700\t605321\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案\n625970\t636888\t我沒有在問你排放嘛拜託一下好不好主委今天問你是說你現在明年才要建制後年才要建制那這空窗期怎麼處理怎麼維護我們國民的安全嘛健康安全嘛\n638732\t662399\t事後口頭或書面好好的回答萬委員好嗎主席能不能讓他回答一下能怎麼做簡單的講都好總之要回答一下好基本上因為最主要的影響是川這部分我們已經建立了海洋資訊的一個跨部會的平台我們持續都有定期取樣檢測所以目前都在運動輻射標準\n665521\t674786\t因為整個所含的元素裡面其實最大的影響是川的部分所以你認為這其他兩個元素沒有影響\n676229\t681091\t在源頭排放的時候它是符合國際標準的才排放的\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們有請副主委有請張代主委\n委員好,張代主委我來修正一下我們副主委八月十六陳中陽主委就任不到一年突然請辭那他有說是因為他的個人的生涯規劃然後歸建大學回去了但是外界還是眾說紛紜因為畢竟這個時間這麼短暫就離開尤其目前我們政府對於核能發電的態度我們可以看得到他是反反覆覆所以大家都無所適從\n您現在做代理主委也一段時間了,您有沒有感受到萊斯高城對於核電太多的相關指示或者是相關的壓力?目前沒有收到任何指示跟壓力那您的態度呢?\n基本上我就是依照目前依法完成這個進行我們的相關的管制工作。好,我想依據喔,這個剛剛當然洪孟凱委員有問過啦,這個核安會的組織法喔,核安會這個5到7人,主委、副主委都是行政院長這個來任命喔,那目前主委已經選缺兩個月了喔,那先不管您到底會被徵處啦,不過剛剛您的意思說你都沒有被問到,對嗎?\n我沒有任何的這個指示或壓力都沒有沒有任何訊息都沒有任何訊息那有去問過別人嗎我就是做好我目前的任務\n主委是否有問題?\n目前因為是代理主委的工作所以就是代理主委的工作所以相關的同仁我們所有的團隊都會是齊心的把該做的工作做好好齊心很重要好那麼卓院長在前幾天我看他接受這個彭博新聞的一個專訪他提到了很多那其中我把它歸類一下那意思他就是說因為現在要因應AI還有半導體的用電需求\n所以只要台灣對於核安還有核廢料處理的方向得以大家有共識政府對於新的核能技術的態度非常開放並且還有一點很重要就是他要求要留任廚藝核電廠的員工這一些都被解讀是對核電的態度在轉彎您的認知跟看法是?\n我想院長對於這個核能的這個說明在之前他都有親自做了說明基本上我們就是依照現在目前的規劃來執行我們的工作那個副主委啊我想我再問你就不要再轉述院長了好嗎\n在新核能的部分其實我們是有國研院在做相關的研究主委你可能真的要針對本席的這個問題我的問題很清楚就是說以上這些談話是不是一種對於核電的態度轉彎了尤其是本席看到要留任廚藝的核電廠員工\n那這看起來也說了是要為將來這個核能技術的發展要做一個好的準備去因應任何的修法所以是不是這就是一種對核電態度的轉彎\n您認為?所以你沒有感受到有任何的轉彎或是不一樣?好,好來我們繼續那其中卓院長他有提了一個就是說\n關於核能安全和核廢料處理的部分是他一直在提的但我想其實我們核安會我們的法定職責跟設立的目的一直以來其實就是核能安全還有核廢料的處理那過去的40年其實也都處理得很好也沒有發生什麼事情也就是說我們看到過去在台灣運轉的核一、核二、核三\n都在核安會的確保之下安全運轉了40年所以其實本席跟很多的人其實是相信核安會的專業的那核安會自己本身有沒有辦法保證所有核能的運用都會安全才來使用可以保證嗎都會安全才會使用\n基本上你不要再基本上了喔是不是都會安全才會使用這點是是還是不是只要回答我是還是不是符合安全管制的話是可以使用那你就回答我一個是就好了嘛好不好我想喔我終於知道為什麼沒有人來詢問你這個有沒有爭取的問題了我覺得要再專業一點必須要再對自己有自信一點啦否則在這個位置上面你怎麼領導大家微微諾諾的什麼事情不敢回答顧左右而言他到底是上層給你壓力還是你的專業不足啊\n您剛都說到了不管是核能安全核配料的處理其實是過去我們大家專業一直在做但是我們看到卓院長其實一直在質疑一直對核安衛的專業是沒有信心的那我想希望我們代理主委可能要再加油一點我不知道你會代理多久但是希望能夠讓卓院長對你稍微有信心一點\n再來我們看到在核廢料處理的部分在上一周我看您報告也有講到10月23號核一廠首次要將使用過的燃料棒從燃料池移到這個室外的乾儲設施也進行熱測是一個月了嘛那目前的狀況是怎麼樣熱測是有兩組要做那目前第一組的這個運儲已經完成了那全程我們都有去做檢查所以第一組已經到位\n所以也算是有一個好的開始所以我想核安委應該要更積極一點來督導我們台電來繼續推動那但是今天要提到一個我想因為現在AI的用量大增然後再加上這個淨零碳排我們看到歐美很多先進的國家都已經重返核電使用了就連我相信您一定知道1979年\n曾經發生二號機核心融毀以及一號機小部分受損的三里島核電廠他都已經預計要在2028年重啟一號機的發電那甚至於連這個微軟公司他其實跟在三里島核電廠的母公司就是美國人和能源都還簽下了20年的一個購電的協議所以我想再再顯示目前不管是科技業者或者尋求這個淨零轉型\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n當會一定會做好我們的安全管制督導的責任好那接下來我向本席帶來請教你今年的6月22號我們看到南韓慶州市的悅城核電廠發生了這個儲存池洩漏的事件然後有2.3噸的這個儲存水流入了海洋然後日本福島核電廠也在8月9號也發現了這個這個輻射水外洩25噸那這件事情核安會知道嗎\n這件事情我們要持續在關注國際上的事情所以您知道對嗎?知道嗎?對,知道所以何安慰在,您知道但是我看到在網站最新的消息當中完全沒有揭露這件事啊所以呢這個是刻意要做隱瞞還是你覺得這件事不太重要還是什麼原因沒有去揭露啊那這個這兩案據你了解的輻射水外洩的原因是什麼?\n報告委員只知道它是發燃料池有發生洩漏然後流入海洋因為我們持續去追蹤它相關的資訊非常少因為它相關的資訊非常少所以我們持續都在追蹤當中但是有這件事嘛對不對那是不是應該也是要揭露我想這個主委要去考量一下那再來呢你說你有去追蹤嘛那追蹤出來的結果有什麼是可以作為我們自己將來核電廠的借鏡\n議員主席議員\n我想主委這兩案其實很重要我想這個訊息要能夠掌握然後要能夠追蹤這一定要往下做下去但是還有一個在上個會期本席就問過說目前我們國內沒有檢測碳14跟碳129的能力這件事已經說了很久了但是事實上碳14跟碳129都會對人體造成危害那核安會說今年會開始推動智慧檢測的計畫來補齊碳14跟碳129的檢測能力那目前的進度是什麼\n我們已經在進行當中今年我們是應該是要完成碳14檢測能力的建置然後明年是進行點129檢測能力的建置那在這個空窗期當中我們要怎麼確保民眾的安全\n基本上因為碳14跟碳129這個檢測能力的這個問題的起源是在於這日本福島之後的川沸水的排放的發生那基本上我們在源頭的部分事實上在碳14跟碳129的部分都是在...欸主委啊我真的覺得你今天的答詢你自己回去看看帶子好好檢討一下本席問你的是啊空窗期要怎麼確保民眾的安全你跟我講源頭講一大堆你到底專不專業啊你告訴我空窗期怎麼處理啊\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案\n我沒有在問你排放嘛拜託一下好不好主委今天問你是說你現在明年才要建制後年才要建制那這空窗期怎麼處理怎麼維護我們國民的安全嘛健康安全嘛\n事後口頭或書面好好的回答萬委員好嗎主席能不能讓他回答一下能怎麼做簡單的講都好總之要回答一下好基本上因為最主要的影響是川這部分我們已經建立了海洋資訊的一個跨部會的平台我們持續都有定期取樣檢測所以目前都在運動輻射標準\n因為整個所含的元素裡面其實最大的影響是川的部分所以你認為這其他兩個元素沒有影響\n在源頭排放的時候它是符合國際標準的才排放的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.764 --> 00:11.881\n謝謝主席,我們有請副主委有請張代主委\n\n00:18.345 --> 00:44.803\n委員好,張代主委我來修正一下我們副主委八月十六陳中陽主委就任不到一年突然請辭那他有說是因為他的個人的生涯規劃然後歸建大學回去了但是外界還是眾說紛紜因為畢竟這個時間這麼短暫就離開尤其目前我們政府對於核能發電的態度我們可以看得到他是反反覆覆所以大家都無所適從\n\n00:45.824 --> 00:56.965\n您現在做代理主委也一段時間了,您有沒有感受到萊斯高城對於核電太多的相關指示或者是相關的壓力?目前沒有收到任何指示跟壓力那您的態度呢?\n\n00:58.103 --> 01:20.418\n基本上我就是依照目前依法完成這個進行我們的相關的管制工作。好,我想依據喔,這個剛剛當然洪孟凱委員有問過啦,這個核安會的組織法喔,核安會這個5到7人,主委、副主委都是行政院長這個來任命喔,那目前主委已經選缺兩個月了喔,那先不管您到底會被徵處啦,不過剛剛您的意思說你都沒有被問到,對嗎?\n\n01:23.243 --> 01:30.609\n我沒有任何的這個指示或壓力都沒有沒有任何訊息都沒有任何訊息那有去問過別人嗎我就是做好我目前的任務\n\n01:39.974 --> 01:40.174\n主委是否有問題?\n\n01:58.974 --> 02:24.827\n目前因為是代理主委的工作所以就是代理主委的工作所以相關的同仁我們所有的團隊都會是齊心的把該做的工作做好好齊心很重要好那麼卓院長在前幾天我看他接受這個彭博新聞的一個專訪他提到了很多那其中我把它歸類一下那意思他就是說因為現在要因應AI還有半導體的用電需求\n\n02:25.347 --> 02:47.607\n所以只要台灣對於核安還有核廢料處理的方向得以大家有共識政府對於新的核能技術的態度非常開放並且還有一點很重要就是他要求要留任廚藝核電廠的員工這一些都被解讀是對核電的態度在轉彎您的認知跟看法是?\n\n02:49.011 --> 03:02.848\n我想院長對於這個核能的這個說明在之前他都有親自做了說明基本上我們就是依照現在目前的規劃來執行我們的工作那個副主委啊我想我再問你就不要再轉述院長了好嗎\n\n03:04.930 --> 03:24.060\n在新核能的部分其實我們是有國研院在做相關的研究主委你可能真的要針對本席的這個問題我的問題很清楚就是說以上這些談話是不是一種對於核電的態度轉彎了尤其是本席看到要留任廚藝的核電廠員工\n\n03:26.181 --> 03:34.267\n那這看起來也說了是要為將來這個核能技術的發展要做一個好的準備去因應任何的修法所以是不是這就是一種對核電態度的轉彎\n\n03:36.345 --> 03:38.645\n您認為?所以你沒有感受到有任何的轉彎或是不一樣?好,好來我們繼續那其中卓院長他有提了一個就是說\n\n04:03.650 --> 04:14.833\n關於核能安全和核廢料處理的部分是他一直在提的但我想其實我們核安會我們的法定職責跟設立的目的一直以來其實就是核能安全還有核廢料的處理那過去的40年其實也都處理得很好也沒有發生什麼事情也就是說我們看到過去在台灣運轉的核一、核二、核三\n\n04:27.176 --> 04:40.743\n都在核安會的確保之下安全運轉了40年所以其實本席跟很多的人其實是相信核安會的專業的那核安會自己本身有沒有辦法保證所有核能的運用都會安全才來使用可以保證嗎都會安全才會使用\n\n04:46.074 --> 05:14.239\n基本上你不要再基本上了喔是不是都會安全才會使用這點是是還是不是只要回答我是還是不是符合安全管制的話是可以使用那你就回答我一個是就好了嘛好不好我想喔我終於知道為什麼沒有人來詢問你這個有沒有爭取的問題了我覺得要再專業一點必須要再對自己有自信一點啦否則在這個位置上面你怎麼領導大家微微諾諾的什麼事情不敢回答顧左右而言他到底是上層給你壓力還是你的專業不足啊\n\n05:18.316 --> 05:38.893\n您剛都說到了不管是核能安全核配料的處理其實是過去我們大家專業一直在做但是我們看到卓院長其實一直在質疑一直對核安衛的專業是沒有信心的那我想希望我們代理主委可能要再加油一點我不知道你會代理多久但是希望能夠讓卓院長對你稍微有信心一點\n\n05:39.794 --> 06:02.797\n再來我們看到在核廢料處理的部分在上一周我看您報告也有講到10月23號核一廠首次要將使用過的燃料棒從燃料池移到這個室外的乾儲設施也進行熱測是一個月了嘛那目前的狀況是怎麼樣熱測是有兩組要做那目前第一組的這個運儲已經完成了那全程我們都有去做檢查所以第一組已經到位\n\n06:03.677 --> 06:23.810\n所以也算是有一個好的開始所以我想核安委應該要更積極一點來督導我們台電來繼續推動那但是今天要提到一個我想因為現在AI的用量大增然後再加上這個淨零碳排我們看到歐美很多先進的國家都已經重返核電使用了就連我相信您一定知道1979年\n\n06:25.471 --> 06:49.491\n曾經發生二號機核心融毀以及一號機小部分受損的三里島核電廠他都已經預計要在2028年重啟一號機的發電那甚至於連這個微軟公司他其實跟在三里島核電廠的母公司就是美國人和能源都還簽下了20年的一個購電的協議所以我想再再顯示目前不管是科技業者或者尋求這個淨零轉型\n\n06:51.092 --> 06:57.218\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n\n07:14.142 --> 07:38.476\n當會一定會做好我們的安全管制督導的責任好那接下來我向本席帶來請教你今年的6月22號我們看到南韓慶州市的悅城核電廠發生了這個儲存池洩漏的事件然後有2.3噸的這個儲存水流入了海洋然後日本福島核電廠也在8月9號也發現了這個這個輻射水外洩25噸那這件事情核安會知道嗎\n\n07:40.260 --> 08:04.946\n這件事情我們要持續在關注國際上的事情所以您知道對嗎?知道嗎?對,知道所以何安慰在,您知道但是我看到在網站最新的消息當中完全沒有揭露這件事啊所以呢這個是刻意要做隱瞞還是你覺得這件事不太重要還是什麼原因沒有去揭露啊那這個這兩案據你了解的輻射水外洩的原因是什麼?\n\n08:06.977 --> 08:31.635\n報告委員只知道它是發燃料池有發生洩漏然後流入海洋因為我們持續去追蹤它相關的資訊非常少因為它相關的資訊非常少所以我們持續都在追蹤當中但是有這件事嘛對不對那是不是應該也是要揭露我想這個主委要去考量一下那再來呢你說你有去追蹤嘛那追蹤出來的結果有什麼是可以作為我們自己將來核電廠的借鏡\n\n08:33.716 --> 08:33.857\n議員主席議員\n\n08:50.740 --> 09:12.745\n我想主委這兩案其實很重要我想這個訊息要能夠掌握然後要能夠追蹤這一定要往下做下去但是還有一個在上個會期本席就問過說目前我們國內沒有檢測碳14跟碳129的能力這件事已經說了很久了但是事實上碳14跟碳129都會對人體造成危害那核安會說今年會開始推動智慧檢測的計畫來補齊碳14跟碳129的檢測能力那目前的進度是什麼\n\n09:19.787 --> 09:32.362\n我們已經在進行當中今年我們是應該是要完成碳14檢測能力的建置然後明年是進行點129檢測能力的建置那在這個空窗期當中我們要怎麼確保民眾的安全\n\n09:34.045 --> 10:02.012\n基本上因為碳14跟碳129這個檢測能力的這個問題的起源是在於這日本福島之後的川沸水的排放的發生那基本上我們在源頭的部分事實上在碳14跟碳129的部分都是在...欸主委啊我真的覺得你今天的答詢你自己回去看看帶子好好檢討一下本席問你的是啊空窗期要怎麼確保民眾的安全你跟我講源頭講一大堆你到底專不專業啊你告訴我空窗期怎麼處理啊\n\n10:03.700 --> 10:05.321\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案\n\n10:25.970 --> 10:36.888\n我沒有在問你排放嘛拜託一下好不好主委今天問你是說你現在明年才要建制後年才要建制那這空窗期怎麼處理怎麼維護我們國民的安全嘛健康安全嘛\n\n10:38.732 --> 11:02.399\n事後口頭或書面好好的回答萬委員好嗎主席能不能讓他回答一下能怎麼做簡單的講都好總之要回答一下好基本上因為最主要的影響是川這部分我們已經建立了海洋資訊的一個跨部會的平台我們持續都有定期取樣檢測所以目前都在運動輻射標準\n\n11:05.521 --> 11:14.786\n因為整個所含的元素裡面其實最大的影響是川的部分所以你認為這其他兩個元素沒有影響\n\n11:16.229 --> 11:21.091\n在源頭排放的時候它是符合國際標準的才排放的\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.764,"end":11.881,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請副主委有請張代主委"},{"start":18.345,"end":44.803,"text":"委員好,張代主委我來修正一下我們副主委八月十六陳中陽主委就任不到一年突然請辭那他有說是因為他的個人的生涯規劃然後歸建大學回去了但是外界還是眾說紛紜因為畢竟這個時間這麼短暫就離開尤其目前我們政府對於核能發電的態度我們可以看得到他是反反覆覆所以大家都無所適從"},{"start":45.824,"end":56.965,"text":"您現在做代理主委也一段時間了,您有沒有感受到萊斯高城對於核電太多的相關指示或者是相關的壓力?目前沒有收到任何指示跟壓力那您的態度呢?"},{"start":58.103,"end":80.418,"text":"基本上我就是依照目前依法完成這個進行我們的相關的管制工作。好,我想依據喔,這個剛剛當然洪孟凱委員有問過啦,這個核安會的組織法喔,核安會這個5到7人,主委、副主委都是行政院長這個來任命喔,那目前主委已經選缺兩個月了喔,那先不管您到底會被徵處啦,不過剛剛您的意思說你都沒有被問到,對嗎?"},{"start":83.243,"end":90.609,"text":"我沒有任何的這個指示或壓力都沒有沒有任何訊息都沒有任何訊息那有去問過別人嗎我就是做好我目前的任務"},{"start":99.974,"end":100.174,"text":"主委是否有問題?"},{"start":118.974,"end":144.827,"text":"目前因為是代理主委的工作所以就是代理主委的工作所以相關的同仁我們所有的團隊都會是齊心的把該做的工作做好好齊心很重要好那麼卓院長在前幾天我看他接受這個彭博新聞的一個專訪他提到了很多那其中我把它歸類一下那意思他就是說因為現在要因應AI還有半導體的用電需求"},{"start":145.347,"end":167.607,"text":"所以只要台灣對於核安還有核廢料處理的方向得以大家有共識政府對於新的核能技術的態度非常開放並且還有一點很重要就是他要求要留任廚藝核電廠的員工這一些都被解讀是對核電的態度在轉彎您的認知跟看法是?"},{"start":169.011,"end":182.848,"text":"我想院長對於這個核能的這個說明在之前他都有親自做了說明基本上我們就是依照現在目前的規劃來執行我們的工作那個副主委啊我想我再問你就不要再轉述院長了好嗎"},{"start":184.93,"end":204.06,"text":"在新核能的部分其實我們是有國研院在做相關的研究主委你可能真的要針對本席的這個問題我的問題很清楚就是說以上這些談話是不是一種對於核電的態度轉彎了尤其是本席看到要留任廚藝的核電廠員工"},{"start":206.181,"end":214.267,"text":"那這看起來也說了是要為將來這個核能技術的發展要做一個好的準備去因應任何的修法所以是不是這就是一種對核電態度的轉彎"},{"start":216.345,"end":218.645,"text":"您認為?所以你沒有感受到有任何的轉彎或是不一樣?好,好來我們繼續那其中卓院長他有提了一個就是說"},{"start":243.65,"end":254.833,"text":"關於核能安全和核廢料處理的部分是他一直在提的但我想其實我們核安會我們的法定職責跟設立的目的一直以來其實就是核能安全還有核廢料的處理那過去的40年其實也都處理得很好也沒有發生什麼事情也就是說我們看到過去在台灣運轉的核一、核二、核三"},{"start":267.176,"end":280.743,"text":"都在核安會的確保之下安全運轉了40年所以其實本席跟很多的人其實是相信核安會的專業的那核安會自己本身有沒有辦法保證所有核能的運用都會安全才來使用可以保證嗎都會安全才會使用"},{"start":286.074,"end":314.239,"text":"基本上你不要再基本上了喔是不是都會安全才會使用這點是是還是不是只要回答我是還是不是符合安全管制的話是可以使用那你就回答我一個是就好了嘛好不好我想喔我終於知道為什麼沒有人來詢問你這個有沒有爭取的問題了我覺得要再專業一點必須要再對自己有自信一點啦否則在這個位置上面你怎麼領導大家微微諾諾的什麼事情不敢回答顧左右而言他到底是上層給你壓力還是你的專業不足啊"},{"start":318.316,"end":338.893,"text":"您剛都說到了不管是核能安全核配料的處理其實是過去我們大家專業一直在做但是我們看到卓院長其實一直在質疑一直對核安衛的專業是沒有信心的那我想希望我們代理主委可能要再加油一點我不知道你會代理多久但是希望能夠讓卓院長對你稍微有信心一點"},{"start":339.794,"end":362.797,"text":"再來我們看到在核廢料處理的部分在上一周我看您報告也有講到10月23號核一廠首次要將使用過的燃料棒從燃料池移到這個室外的乾儲設施也進行熱測是一個月了嘛那目前的狀況是怎麼樣熱測是有兩組要做那目前第一組的這個運儲已經完成了那全程我們都有去做檢查所以第一組已經到位"},{"start":363.677,"end":383.81,"text":"所以也算是有一個好的開始所以我想核安委應該要更積極一點來督導我們台電來繼續推動那但是今天要提到一個我想因為現在AI的用量大增然後再加上這個淨零碳排我們看到歐美很多先進的國家都已經重返核電使用了就連我相信您一定知道1979年"},{"start":385.471,"end":409.491,"text":"曾經發生二號機核心融毀以及一號機小部分受損的三里島核電廠他都已經預計要在2028年重啟一號機的發電那甚至於連這個微軟公司他其實跟在三里島核電廠的母公司就是美國人和能源都還簽下了20年的一個購電的協議所以我想再再顯示目前不管是科技業者或者尋求這個淨零轉型"},{"start":411.092,"end":417.218,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":434.142,"end":458.476,"text":"當會一定會做好我們的安全管制督導的責任好那接下來我向本席帶來請教你今年的6月22號我們看到南韓慶州市的悅城核電廠發生了這個儲存池洩漏的事件然後有2.3噸的這個儲存水流入了海洋然後日本福島核電廠也在8月9號也發現了這個這個輻射水外洩25噸那這件事情核安會知道嗎"},{"start":460.26,"end":484.946,"text":"這件事情我們要持續在關注國際上的事情所以您知道對嗎?知道嗎?對,知道所以何安慰在,您知道但是我看到在網站最新的消息當中完全沒有揭露這件事啊所以呢這個是刻意要做隱瞞還是你覺得這件事不太重要還是什麼原因沒有去揭露啊那這個這兩案據你了解的輻射水外洩的原因是什麼?"},{"start":486.977,"end":511.635,"text":"報告委員只知道它是發燃料池有發生洩漏然後流入海洋因為我們持續去追蹤它相關的資訊非常少因為它相關的資訊非常少所以我們持續都在追蹤當中但是有這件事嘛對不對那是不是應該也是要揭露我想這個主委要去考量一下那再來呢你說你有去追蹤嘛那追蹤出來的結果有什麼是可以作為我們自己將來核電廠的借鏡"},{"start":513.716,"end":513.857,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":530.74,"end":552.745,"text":"我想主委這兩案其實很重要我想這個訊息要能夠掌握然後要能夠追蹤這一定要往下做下去但是還有一個在上個會期本席就問過說目前我們國內沒有檢測碳14跟碳129的能力這件事已經說了很久了但是事實上碳14跟碳129都會對人體造成危害那核安會說今年會開始推動智慧檢測的計畫來補齊碳14跟碳129的檢測能力那目前的進度是什麼"},{"start":559.787,"end":572.362,"text":"我們已經在進行當中今年我們是應該是要完成碳14檢測能力的建置然後明年是進行點129檢測能力的建置那在這個空窗期當中我們要怎麼確保民眾的安全"},{"start":574.045,"end":602.012,"text":"基本上因為碳14跟碳129這個檢測能力的這個問題的起源是在於這日本福島之後的川沸水的排放的發生那基本上我們在源頭的部分事實上在碳14跟碳129的部分都是在...欸主委啊我真的覺得你今天的答詢你自己回去看看帶子好好檢討一下本席問你的是啊空窗期要怎麼確保民眾的安全你跟我講源頭講一大堆你到底專不專業啊你告訴我空窗期怎麼處理啊"},{"start":603.7,"end":605.321,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":625.97,"end":636.888,"text":"我沒有在問你排放嘛拜託一下好不好主委今天問你是說你現在明年才要建制後年才要建制那這空窗期怎麼處理怎麼維護我們國民的安全嘛健康安全嘛"},{"start":638.732,"end":662.399,"text":"事後口頭或書面好好的回答萬委員好嗎主席能不能讓他回答一下能怎麼做簡單的講都好總之要回答一下好基本上因為最主要的影響是川這部分我們已經建立了海洋資訊的一個跨部會的平台我們持續都有定期取樣檢測所以目前都在運動輻射標準"},{"start":665.521,"end":674.786,"text":"因為整個所含的元素裡面其實最大的影響是川的部分所以你認為這其他兩個元素沒有影響"},{"start":676.229,"end":681.091,"text":"在源頭排放的時候它是符合國際標準的才排放的"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":143,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時29分）謝謝主席，我們有請副主委。"],["主席：有請張代理主委。"],["張代理主任委員欣：委員好。"],["萬委員美玲：是張代理主委，我修正一下。8月16日陳東陽主委就任不到一年，突然請辭，他有說是因為個人的生涯規劃，歸建大學回去了，但是外界還是眾說紛紜，因為畢竟時間這麼短暫就離開，尤其目前政府對於核能發電的態度，我們可以看得到是反反覆覆，所以大家都無所適從，您現在做代理主委也一段時間了，你有沒有感受到來自高層對於核電態度的相關指示，或者是相關的壓力？"],["張代理主任委員欣：目前沒有收到任何指示跟壓力。"],["萬委員美玲：那您的態度呢？"],["張代理主任委員欣：基本上，我目前就是依法進行我們相關的管制工作。"],["萬委員美玲：好，剛剛當然洪孟楷委員有問過，對於核安會的組織法，核安會5到7人，主委、副主委都是行政院長任命，目前主委已經懸缺兩個月了，先不管您到底會不會真除，不過剛剛您的意思是說你都沒有被問到，對嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我沒有任何的指示或壓力，都沒有。"],["萬委員美玲：不是，我是問有沒有人來詢問過您，可能要真除您為主委這個事情？"],["張代理主任委員欣：沒有任何訊息。"],["萬委員美玲：都沒有任何訊息。那有去問過別人嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我就是做好我目前的任務。"],["萬委員美玲：好，那問題就來了。雖然我想核安會是一個團隊，但是我們都知道一艘船最重要就是舵手，主委其實已經懸缺這麼久了，你說對整個領導沒有影響，我想那是不可能的，所以主委是非常重要的，目前來說，長期沒有主委在業務上面有產生什麼問題？"],["張代理主任委員欣：目前因為是代理主委的工作，所以就是做代理主委的工作，相關的同仁、我們所有的團隊都會齊心把該做的工作做好。"],["萬委員美玲：齊心很重要，好。卓院長在前幾天，我看他接受彭博新聞的專訪，他提到了很多，我把它歸類一下，他的意思就是說，因為現在要因應AI還有半導體的用電需求，只要臺灣對於核安及核廢料處理的方向得宜，大家有共識，政府對於新核能技術的態度非常開放，並且還有一點很重要，就是他要求要留任除役核電廠的員工，這一些都被解讀是對核電的態度在轉彎，您的認知跟看法是如何？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我想院長對於核能的說明，之前他都有親自做了說明，基本上，我們就是依照目前的規劃來執行我們的工作，在新核能的部分……"],["萬委員美玲：副主委，我是在問你，你就不要再轉述院長的話好嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：在新核能的部分，其實我們是有國原院在做相關的研究。"],["萬委員美玲：副主委，你可能真的要針對本席的問題，我的問題很清楚，對以上這些談話，是不是一種對於核電的態度轉彎了？尤其是本席看到要留任除役的核電廠員工，也說是要為將來核能技術的發展做一個好的準備，去因應任何的修法，所以這是不是一種對核電態度的轉彎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我想對核電態度的部分是涉及核能政策。"],["萬委員美玲：您的認為？"],["張代理主任委員欣：這是院長跟經濟部的權限，在這裡的話，我想說的是我們在……"],["萬委員美玲：所以你沒有感受到有任何的轉彎或是不一樣？"],["張代理主任委員欣：基本上，核電廠在進入除役期間，因為有很多的工作，所以它的人員事實上還會執行相關的除役作業。"],["萬委員美玲：好，我們繼續。其中，核能安全跟核廢料處理的部分是卓院長一直在提的，但我想核安會法定的職責跟設立的目的，一直以來就是核能安全及核廢料處理，過去的40年，其實也都處理得很好，也沒有發生什麼事情。也就是我們看到過去臺灣運轉的核一、核二、核三，都在核安會的確保之下，安全運轉了40年，所以本席跟很多人是相信核安會的專業，核安會自己本身有沒有辦法保證所有核能的運用，都會安全才來使用，可以保證嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：基本上，只有符合……"],["萬委員美玲：你不要再基本上了，是不是都會安全才會使用？是還是不是？"],["張代理主任委員欣：符合安全……"],["萬委員美玲：只要回答我是還是不是？"],["張代理主任委員欣：符合安全管制的話是可以使用，但是要符合……"],["萬委員美玲：那你就回答我一個「是」就好了，好不好？我想我終於知道為什麼沒有人來詢問你有沒有真除的問題了，我覺得要再專業一點，並且要再對自己有自信一點，否則在這個位置上面你怎麼領導大家？唯唯諾諾的，什麼事情不敢回答，顧左右而言他，到底是上層給你壓力，還是你的專業不足？我想您剛剛都說到了，就是不管是核能安全、核廢料的處理，其實是過去我們大家專業一直在做，但是我們看到卓院長其實一直在質疑，一直對核安會的專業是沒有信心的，希望代理主委可能要再加油一點，我不知道你會代理多久，但是希望能夠讓卓院長對你稍微有信心一點。","再來，我們看到在核廢料處理的部分，在上一週我看您報告也有講到，10月23號核一廠首次要將使用過的燃料棒從燃料池移到室外的乾貯設施，也進行熱測試，一個月了嘛，那目前的狀況是怎麼樣？"],["張代理主任委員欣：熱測試有兩組要做，目前第一組的運貯已經完成了，全程我們都有去做檢查，所以第一組已經到位。"],["萬委員美玲：好，所以也算是有一個好的開始嘛！所以我想核安會應該要更積極一點督導台電繼續推動。但是今天要提到一個，我想因為現在AI的用量大增，然後再加上淨零碳排，我們看到歐美很多先進的國家都已經重返核電使用，我相信您一定知道，1979年曾經發生2號機核心熔毀，以及1號機小部分受損的三哩島核電廠，它都已經要在2028年重啟1號機的發電，甚至連微軟公司，它其實跟三哩島核電廠的母公司，就是美國聯合能源，簽下了20年的購電協議，所以我想這在在顯示目前不管是科技業者或者尋求淨零轉型，都是需要穩定還有龐大的能源供應，這是一個首選。所以本席在這邊要提醒，不管核電會不會延役，或者你的新核電技術要不要用，目前我們的核廢料，也不管低階或高階，我相信核安會都是責無旁貸的，所以要來督導，核安會對於未來在督導的作業上面，你有沒有信心？可以做得好嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：核安會一定會做好我們的安全管制督導的責任。"],["萬委員美玲：好，接下來本席再來請教你，今年的6月22號，我們看到南韓慶州市的月城核電廠發生了個儲存池洩漏的事件，有2.3噸的儲存水流入了海洋；然後日本福島核電廠也在8月9號發現了輻射水外洩25噸，這件事情核安會知道嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：這件事情我們有持續在關注國際上的訊息。"],["萬委員美玲：所以您知道對嗎？知道嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：對，知道。"],["萬委員美玲：您知道，但是我看到在網站最新的消息當中完全沒有揭露這件事，所以是刻意要隱瞞，還是你覺得這件事件不太重要，還是什麼原因沒有去揭露？這兩案據你了解，輻射水外洩的原因是什麼？"],["張代理主任委員欣：報告委員，只知道它是乏燃料池有發生洩漏，然後流入海洋，因為我們……"],["萬委員美玲：為什麼沒有揭露？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們持續去追蹤相關的資訊做參考。"],["萬委員美玲：為什麼沒有揭露？"],["張代理主任委員欣：因為相關的資訊非常少，所以我們持續都在追蹤當中。"],["萬委員美玲：但是有這件事嘛！對不對？"],["張代理主任委員欣：有。"],["萬委員美玲：那是不是應該要揭露？我想主委要去考量一下。"],["張代理主任委員欣：是。"],["萬委員美玲：再來，你說你有去追蹤嘛！追蹤出來的結果有什麼是可以做為我們自己將來核電廠的借鏡？"],["張代理主任委員欣：因為我們看到是乏燃料池，也就是所謂的用過燃料儲存池的洩漏，所以我們針對用過燃料池的監測、巡視，跟監測設備我們都有定期維護保養，也加強巡視的人力，避免發生燃料池洩漏……"],["萬委員美玲：好。主委，這兩案其實很重要，我想這個訊息要能夠掌握，然後要能夠追蹤，這一定要往下做下去。但是還有一個，在上個會期本席就問過，目前我們國內沒有檢測碳14跟碘129的能力，這件事情說很久了，但是事實上碳14跟碘129都會對人體造成危害，核安會說今年會開始推動智慧檢測的計畫來補齊碳14跟碘129的檢測能力，目前的進度是什麼？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們已經在進行當中，今年我們應該是要完成碳14檢測能力的建置，然後明年是進行碘129檢測能力的建置。"],["萬委員美玲：在這個空窗期當中，我們要怎麼確保民眾的安全？"],["張代理主任委員欣：基本上，因為碳14跟碘129檢測能力的問題起源是在於日本福島之後氚廢水的排放，基本上我們在源頭部分，事實上在碳14跟碘129的部分都是在……"],["萬委員美玲：主委，我真的覺得你今天的答詢，你自己回去看看帶子好好檢討一下，本席問你的是空窗期要怎麼確保民眾的安全，你跟我講源頭講一大堆，你到底專不專業？你告訴我空窗期怎麼處理啦！"],["張代理主任委員欣：因為這個涉及核種的專業，是不是請主任來補充一下？"],["萬委員美玲：所以主委也不了解？主席，這題他完全沒辦法答耶！"],["張代理主任委員欣：因為這個部分，它的強度事實上是沒有那麼強的，所以目前在日方排放的部分，其實這些都要符合……"],["萬委員美玲：我沒有在問你排放，拜託一下好不好？主委，現在問你是你明年才要建置、後年才要建置，那這空窗期怎麼處理、怎麼維護我們國民的健康安全嘛！"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們事實上……"],["主席：你之後口頭或書面好好地回答萬委員好嗎？"],["萬委員美玲：不是，主席，能不能讓他回答一下，就是能怎麼做，簡單講都好，總是要回答一下。"],["張代理主任委員欣：基本上，因為……"],["主席：簡答就好，好嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：最主要的影響是氚，這部分我們已經建立了海洋資訊的跨部會平台，我們持續都有定期取樣檢測，所以目前……"],["萬委員美玲：本席在問你碘你給我答氚？"],["張代理主任委員欣：因為整個所含的元素裡面，其實最大的影響是氚的部分。"],["萬委員美玲：所以你認為其他兩個元素沒有影響？"],["張代理主任委員欣：在源頭排放的時候，它是符合國際標準才排放的。"],["萬委員美玲：主委，我覺得會後你真的要到辦公室好好來說明，我覺得你相當地不專業，當然因為你的不專業，所以你就沒有自信心，你這樣的回答本席是不能接受啦！我希望你現在這樣的態度，也不要嬉皮笑臉，你今天的不專業跟你今天質詢的答非所問，本席不能接受。"],["張代理主任委員欣：我會後會跟委員報告。"],["主席：那就事後好好跟萬委員說明解釋，好不好？"],["張代理主任委員欣：好。"],["主席：謝謝萬美玲委員的質詢，張代主委請回。","下一位請林宜瑾委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-9","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","林宜瑾","林倩綺","張雅琳","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","葉元之","吳春城"],"page_start":313,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會代理主任委員張欣列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有\n關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家\n原子能科技研究院預算案（第二案至第四案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00005"}}}