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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 63.275, \"end\": 64.816, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"乘\", \"start\": 64.816, \"end\": 64.997, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 64.997, \"end\": 65.317, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 65.317, \"end\": 65.537, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 65.537, \"end\": 65.757, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 65.757, \"end\": 65.998, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 65.998, \"end\": 66.258, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 66.258, \"end\": 66.278, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"撥\"}]}, {\"start\": 67.679, \"end\": 92.574, \"text\": \"這個算完之後還要扣這四項因為這四項認為說這個不是員工努力的所以我應該要扣除它第一個要扣除政府補助的收入要這個福利金的計算當中還要扣除這個政府補助的收入這要提出掉不能算入福利金的計算增加的因素那核能後端的營業收入也要扣掉電價調漲\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 67.679, \"end\": 67.919, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 67.919, \"end\": 68.16, \"score\": 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\"end\": 645.429, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 645.429, \"end\": 645.77, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 645.77, \"end\": 646.17, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 646.17, \"end\": 646.39, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 646.39, \"end\": 647.051, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 647.051, \"end\": 647.331, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 647.331, \"end\": 647.451, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 647.451, \"end\": 647.571, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 647.571, \"end\": 647.591, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,330 --> 00:00:04,179\n請林岱樺委員有請部長請郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,717 --> 00:00:31,364\n委員長部長本席針對台電跟台水那我們先從台電台電的這個福利金這個我本席認為應該要檢討那原因是什麼少子化導致國營事業員工的招聘困難\n\n3\n00:00:32,344 --> 00:00:47,698\n那民間的企業薪酬的條件都已經優於國營事業的幾乎基礎在薪酬規範的限制下如何藉由其他的福利跟保障將成為國營事業招聘薪水的關鍵好那這個福利金呢是不是這個\n\n4\n00:00:50,180 --> 00:01:06,278\n在這個福利金的算法其實福利金不是給所有的員工他是在一個專款專戶當中那他的算法是福利金的預算是來自營業收入的總額乘以福利金的提撥\n\n5\n00:01:07,679 --> 00:01:32,574\n這個算完之後還要扣這四項因為這四項認為說這個不是員工努力的所以我應該要扣除它第一個要扣除政府補助的收入要這個福利金的計算當中還要扣除這個政府補助的收入這要提出掉不能算入福利金的計算增加的因素那核能後端的營業收入也要扣掉電價調漲\n\n6\n00:01:35,896 --> 00:01:45,564\n這是不是會增加營業收入這件事情也要扣掉這個電腦有問題好嗎電腦有問題我們請停止一下好不好時間先暫停我們時間先暫停好來\n\n7\n00:02:04,976 --> 00:02:31,749\n好這個畫面不對好OK那我們恢復謝謝主席好那第四個要扣除的非屬員工共限制收入這四個其實有道理但是我認為檢討的這是第三項電價調漲的因素我先回顧之前這個提撥的比例我們其實法定的提撥比例也就是上面那個公式上頁的那個公式右邊的福利金提撥率\n\n8\n00:02:33,230 --> 00:02:38,156\n這個提撥率法定的是要0.15%可是我們從來沒有提撥滿額到0.15%我們最多就是到110年的0.12%好我們看喔\n\n9\n00:02:48,187 --> 00:03:09,769\n會有包括提破率最低的時候是民國97年的時候提破率才0.1%我們法定是0.15為什麼因為那時候民國90年說應該把電價調漲這件因素把它剔除掉電價調漲會增加收入所以我應該剔除掉在當時的時空背景97年立法院的附帶據本期支持\n\n10\n00:03:10,450 --> 00:03:22,594\n因為他那時候的這個相關的油料啊這個相關的都下降嘛所以這個台電是這個營收非常的豐厚所以你還去調漲電價那這怎麼可以變成是員工的這個因素呢好\n\n11\n00:03:26,895 --> 00:03:38,458\n那現在的情況不一樣囉現在是我們的二屋戰爭也好那美中的這個區域經濟的競爭也好導致說我現在把我的這個電價的調漲這件事情納入我要福利金是不是也應該要把它扣除掉這件事情我認為是應該要檢討的所以今天我們會調降電價的調漲這個是人員政策啊\n\n12\n00:03:54,942 --> 00:04:12,177\n這個不是台電阿這個現在的電價調漲是為了彌補台電購電成本的增加並非台電員工不努力可是我現在的人員政策電價調漲變成處罰台電員工了我必須扣除台電同仁的福利金了\n\n13\n00:04:13,158 --> 00:04:28,033\n所以本席主張應該要檢討臺電同仁的福利金這一樣維持90之年的提案只是有一個但書臺電不得以電價調漲所增加的營業收入來增加員工福利金但\n\n14\n00:04:28,793 --> 00:04:47,943\n在營業總額有盈餘的情況之下這不再實現也就是說只要有盈餘當然我的你還敢去漲電價再增加我本來已經有盈餘再去再去再去漲那當然我就必須把你的這個福利金當中應該扣掉這個因素所以我覺得做應該要做這樣的調漲也就是說電價調漲用於是在彌補台電虧損的情況之下則\n\n15\n00:04:54,946 --> 00:05:12,177\n應該刪除電價調漲作為福利金的檢向,部長你怎麼看?我認同委員的垂詢,這個部分我們回去根據您的垂詢我們來討論一下,我們來檢討一下。大概多久呢?\n\n16\n00:05:14,571 --> 00:05:40,465\n這個部分我想這個因為是法規定的啦這個只是員工裡面的這個只是附帶決議裡面的內規是不是我讓那個我跟委員報告第一個就是我們台電公司的這個福利金的總額從來沒有減少過而且是在往上升的因為他每年會看狀況不一樣那剛委員所提的說是不是營業收入這個部分會受電價原來這個這個我們會去檢討\n\n17\n00:05:42,706 --> 00:06:04,438\n但是我要跟委員報告就是說所有員工的那個福利金我們從來沒有減少過一塊錢是往上升的是是但是你的總額是在減少的沒有沒有總額是在上升總額在上升對我要跟委員特別報告所以每個人的平均的那個福利金也是在上升的所以我們要考慮到四家公司有油電糖水四家因為營業狀況不一樣他的福利金可能會不一樣那我們這個會去檢討大概給我們一個月的時間\n\n18\n00:06:07,159 --> 00:06:13,102\n臺水現在有超過7萬6千公里的自來水管需要維護跟更新。第二個水價長期一國兩制這是本席要質詢的重點根本就對我全台灣人民來講完全沒有用水正義水費的規則是偏利於用水大幅的像台積電等等這些都是叫做用水大幅但是他們\n\n19\n00:06:37,072 --> 00:06:59,717\n所收的費用他們的耗水之高我們在台水北水是有給他規定的但是台水是沒有的再來第三成本上漲利息沉重第四個自行舉債舉措經費我們現在非常自豪的我也非常肯定台水的那個漏水利的一個減少但是是他們舉債\n\n20\n00:07:01,698 --> 00:07:12,411\n這是舉在來降低我們的漏水率那7萬6千公里的管線維護的成本高我們看世界各國主要城市的漏水率右邊這張圖我們排在第6名\n\n21\n00:07:16,876 --> 00:07:38,022\n這個是不容易耶,雖然我們離法國那個第5名12.54%到9%我們還差了3點多%這其實是有點差距但總是我們有第6名那這7萬6千公里的這個管線全台灣這個是什麼概念就是繞地球兩圈的管路概念那台水這樣的漏水力還能夠維持\n\n22\n00:07:39,202 --> 00:08:03,910\n還能維持這麼高我覺得真的是了不起那他付出了什麼代價他付出了全台灣他只有80位的水醫生這個水醫生每天都要走上萬公里啊然後再來他付出什麼代價只要我們全台灣哪裡有地下水管破裂水公司一定都第一次第一線每幾分鐘十分鐘內都一定要趕快抵達或者一定會被罵臭頭\n\n23\n00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:27,895\n可是他的這樣的維護成本之高維持這麼低的漏水率但是他付出這樣的代價但是他也自負盈虧舉債來修漏水我們從102年到113年有效的降水這樣降水的這個比例降了7.55%也就是降低漏水率超過一座的10門水庫達2.55%\n\n24\n00:08:30,316 --> 00:08:31,017\n臺水的借款負債達1044.25億新台幣\n\n25\n00:08:54,237 --> 00:09:11,483\n這對一家公司來講這不破產才怪那再來呢所以這邊我具體要求第一個比照台北自來水事務處研議每月用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費集聚來漲水用水增益用水增益是對全台灣2300萬人民我說對台積電這種用水大廠\n\n26\n00:09:16,244 --> 00:09:44,689\n你絕對只要水電限電限水都限在什麼地方限在人民用水限在農業用水限在中小企業的用水台積電等這種耗水廠你絕對不敢給他限水或者停電絕對不敢可是我是用人民可是你不敢去我們的台水公司不敢我不曉得什麼理由你們不敢去對比照這個北水台北市做得到你反而做不到欸\n\n27\n00:09:45,909 --> 00:09:59,684\n但你的用水正義在哪裡我用人民的納稅人大部分百分之百的納稅人去支持你大企業限電限水的時候又他們不停我們所有人都要停這個叫截貧什麼濟富啊就是這種髒水正義那第二個呢這個虧損啊1044億當中請\n\n28\n00:10:05,811 --> 00:10:28,835\n那個經濟部也比照台電、中油請經濟部向中央爭取兩年爭取撥補來解決台水的負債第三個我們進行老舊管線正式編預算來降低百分之二再降低百分之二的這個漏水率部長您針對台水這個用水正義的部分您怎麼回覆以及在撥補的部分您要不要做努力我們會來努力\n\n29\n00:10:30,836 --> 00:10:47,591\n臺水檢討用水大戶只徵收了耗水費,耗水費只是水利署在拿,臺水一點都沒受益,所以在用水大戶新增的收費基金你要不要處理,一個月內給我答案好嗎?\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n330\t4179\t請林岱樺委員有請部長請郭部長\n13717\t31364\t委員長部長本席針對台電跟台水那我們先從台電台電的這個福利金這個我本席認為應該要檢討那原因是什麼少子化導致國營事業員工的招聘困難\n32344\t47698\t那民間的企業薪酬的條件都已經優於國營事業的幾乎基礎在薪酬規範的限制下如何藉由其他的福利跟保障將成為國營事業招聘薪水的關鍵好那這個福利金呢是不是這個\n50180\t66278\t在這個福利金的算法其實福利金不是給所有的員工他是在一個專款專戶當中那他的算法是福利金的預算是來自營業收入的總額乘以福利金的提撥\n67679\t92574\t這個算完之後還要扣這四項因為這四項認為說這個不是員工努力的所以我應該要扣除它第一個要扣除政府補助的收入要這個福利金的計算當中還要扣除這個政府補助的收入這要提出掉不能算入福利金的計算增加的因素那核能後端的營業收入也要扣掉電價調漲\n95896\t105564\t這是不是會增加營業收入這件事情也要扣掉這個電腦有問題好嗎電腦有問題我們請停止一下好不好時間先暫停我們時間先暫停好來\n124976\t151749\t好 這個畫面不對好 OK 那我們恢復 謝謝主席好 那第四個要扣除的非屬員工共限制收入這四個其實有道理但是我認為檢討的這是第三項電價調漲的因素我先回顧之前這個提撥的比例我們其實法定的提撥比例也就是上面那個公式上頁的那個公式右邊的福利金提撥率\n153230\t158156\t這個提撥率法定的是要0.15%可是我們從來沒有提撥滿額到0.15%我們最多就是到110年的0.12%好我們看喔\n168187\t189769\t會有包括提破率最低的時候是民國97年的時候提破率才0.1%我們法定是0.15為什麼因為那時候民國90年說應該把電價調漲這件因素把它剔除掉電價調漲會增加收入所以我應該剔除掉在當時的時空背景97年立法院的附帶據本期支持\n190450\t202594\t因為他那時候的這個相關的油料啊這個相關的都下降嘛所以這個台電是這個營收非常的豐厚所以你還去調漲電價那這怎麼可以變成是員工的這個因素呢好\n206895\t218458\t那現在的情況不一樣囉現在是我們的二屋戰爭也好那美中的這個區域經濟的競爭也好導致說我現在把我的這個電價的調漲這件事情納入我要福利金是不是也應該要把它扣除掉這件事情我認為是應該要檢討的所以今天我們會調降電價的調漲這個是人員政策啊\n234942\t252177\t這個不是台電阿這個現在的電價調漲是為了彌補台電購電成本的增加並非台電員工不努力可是我現在的人員政策電價調漲變成處罰台電員工了我必須扣除台電同仁的福利金了\n253158\t268033\t所以本席主張應該要檢討臺電同仁的福利金這一樣維持90之年的提案只是有一個但書臺電不得以電價調漲所增加的營業收入來增加員工福利金但\n268793\t287943\t在營業總額有盈餘的情況之下這不再實現也就是說只要有盈餘當然我的你還敢去漲電價再增加我本來已經有盈餘再去再去再去漲那當然我就必須把你的這個福利金當中應該扣掉這個因素所以我覺得做應該要做這樣的調漲也就是說電價調漲用於是在彌補台電虧損的情況之下則\n294946\t312177\t應該刪除電價調漲作為福利金的檢向,部長你怎麼看?我認同委員的垂詢,這個部分我們回去根據您的垂詢我們來討論一下,我們來檢討一下。大概多久呢?\n314571\t340465\t這個部分我想 這個因為是法規定的啦 這個只是員工裡面的 這個只是附帶決議裡面的內規 是不是我讓那個我跟委員報告 第一個就是我們台電公司的這個福利金的總額從來沒有減少過 而且是在往上升的因為他每年會看狀況不一樣 那剛委員所提的說是不是營業收入這個部分會受電價原來這個 這個我們會去檢討\n342706\t364438\t但是我要跟委員報告就是說所有員工的那個福利金我們從來沒有減少過一塊錢是往上升的是是但是你的總額是在減少的沒有沒有總額是在上升總額在上升對我要跟委員特別報告所以每個人的平均的那個福利金也是在上升的所以我們要考慮到四家公司有油電糖水四家因為營業狀況不一樣他的福利金可能會不一樣那我們這個會去檢討大概給我們一個月的時間\n367159\t373102\t臺水現在有超過7萬6千公里的自來水管需要維護跟更新。第二個水價長期一國兩制這是本席要質詢的重點根本就對我全台灣人民來講完全沒有用水正義水費的規則是偏利於用水大幅的像台積電等等這些都是叫做用水大幅但是他們\n397072\t419717\t所收的費用他們的耗水之高我們在台水北水是有給他規定的但是台水是沒有的再來第三成本上漲利息沉重第四個自行舉債舉措經費我們現在非常自豪的我也非常肯定台水的那個漏水利的一個減少但是是他們舉債\n421698\t432411\t這是舉在來降低我們的漏水率那7萬6千公里的管線維護的成本高我們看世界各國主要城市的漏水率右邊這張圖我們排在第6名\n436876\t458022\t這個是不容易耶,雖然我們離法國那個第5名12.54%到9%我們還差了3點多%這其實是有點差距但總是我們有第6名那這7萬6千公里的這個管線全台灣這個是什麼概念就是繞地球兩圈的管路概念那台水這樣的漏水力還能夠維持\n459202\t483910\t還能維持這麼高我覺得真的是了不起那他付出了什麼代價他付出了全台灣他只有80位的水醫生這個水醫生每天都要走上萬公里啊然後再來他付出什麼代價只要我們全台灣哪裡有地下水管破裂水公司一定都第一次第一線每幾分鐘十分鐘內都一定要趕快抵達或者一定會被罵臭頭\n485850\t507895\t可是他的這樣的維護成本之高維持這麼低的漏水率但是他付出這樣的代價但是他也自負盈虧舉債來修漏水我們從102年到113年有效的降水這樣降水的這個比例降了7.55%也就是降低漏水率超過一座的10門水庫達2.55%\n510316\t511017\t臺水的借款負債達1044.25億新台幣\n534237\t551483\t這對一家公司來講這不破產才怪那再來呢所以這邊我具體要求第一個比照台北自來水事務處研議每月用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費集聚來漲水用水增益用水增益是對全台灣2300萬人民我說對台積電這種用水大廠\n556244\t584689\t你絕對只要水電限電限水都限在什麼地方限在人民用水限在農業用水限在中小企業的用水台積電等這種耗水廠你絕對不敢給他限水或者停電絕對不敢可是我是用人民可是你不敢去我們的台水公司不敢我不曉得什麼理由你們不敢去對比照這個北水台北市做得到你反而做不到欸\n585909\t599684\t但你的用水正義在哪裡我用人民的納稅人大部分百分之百的納稅人去支持你大企業限電限水的時候又他們不停我們所有人都要停這個叫截貧什麼濟富啊就是這種髒水正義那第二個呢這個虧損啊1044億當中請\n605811\t628835\t那個經濟部也比照台電、中油請經濟部向中央爭取兩年爭取撥補來解決台水的負債第三個我們進行老舊管線正式編預算來降低百分之二再降低百分之二的這個漏水率部長您針對台水這個用水正義的部分您怎麼回覆以及在撥補的部分您要不要做努力我們會來努力\n630836\t647591\t臺水檢討用水大戶只徵收了耗水費,耗水費只是水利署在拿,臺水一點都沒受益,所以在用水大戶新增的收費基金你要不要處理,一個月內給我答案好嗎?\n","txt":"請林岱樺委員有請部長請郭部長\n委員長部長本席針對台電跟台水那我們先從台電台電的這個福利金這個我本席認為應該要檢討那原因是什麼少子化導致國營事業員工的招聘困難\n那民間的企業薪酬的條件都已經優於國營事業的幾乎基礎在薪酬規範的限制下如何藉由其他的福利跟保障將成為國營事業招聘薪水的關鍵好那這個福利金呢是不是這個\n在這個福利金的算法其實福利金不是給所有的員工他是在一個專款專戶當中那他的算法是福利金的預算是來自營業收入的總額乘以福利金的提撥\n這個算完之後還要扣這四項因為這四項認為說這個不是員工努力的所以我應該要扣除它第一個要扣除政府補助的收入要這個福利金的計算當中還要扣除這個政府補助的收入這要提出掉不能算入福利金的計算增加的因素那核能後端的營業收入也要扣掉電價調漲\n這是不是會增加營業收入這件事情也要扣掉這個電腦有問題好嗎電腦有問題我們請停止一下好不好時間先暫停我們時間先暫停好來\n好 這個畫面不對好 OK 那我們恢復 謝謝主席好 那第四個要扣除的非屬員工共限制收入這四個其實有道理但是我認為檢討的這是第三項電價調漲的因素我先回顧之前這個提撥的比例我們其實法定的提撥比例也就是上面那個公式上頁的那個公式右邊的福利金提撥率\n這個提撥率法定的是要0.15%可是我們從來沒有提撥滿額到0.15%我們最多就是到110年的0.12%好我們看喔\n會有包括提破率最低的時候是民國97年的時候提破率才0.1%我們法定是0.15為什麼因為那時候民國90年說應該把電價調漲這件因素把它剔除掉電價調漲會增加收入所以我應該剔除掉在當時的時空背景97年立法院的附帶據本期支持\n因為他那時候的這個相關的油料啊這個相關的都下降嘛所以這個台電是這個營收非常的豐厚所以你還去調漲電價那這怎麼可以變成是員工的這個因素呢好\n那現在的情況不一樣囉現在是我們的二屋戰爭也好那美中的這個區域經濟的競爭也好導致說我現在把我的這個電價的調漲這件事情納入我要福利金是不是也應該要把它扣除掉這件事情我認為是應該要檢討的所以今天我們會調降電價的調漲這個是人員政策啊\n這個不是台電阿這個現在的電價調漲是為了彌補台電購電成本的增加並非台電員工不努力可是我現在的人員政策電價調漲變成處罰台電員工了我必須扣除台電同仁的福利金了\n所以本席主張應該要檢討臺電同仁的福利金這一樣維持90之年的提案只是有一個但書臺電不得以電價調漲所增加的營業收入來增加員工福利金但\n在營業總額有盈餘的情況之下這不再實現也就是說只要有盈餘當然我的你還敢去漲電價再增加我本來已經有盈餘再去再去再去漲那當然我就必須把你的這個福利金當中應該扣掉這個因素所以我覺得做應該要做這樣的調漲也就是說電價調漲用於是在彌補台電虧損的情況之下則\n應該刪除電價調漲作為福利金的檢向,部長你怎麼看?我認同委員的垂詢,這個部分我們回去根據您的垂詢我們來討論一下,我們來檢討一下。大概多久呢?\n這個部分我想 這個因為是法規定的啦 這個只是員工裡面的 這個只是附帶決議裡面的內規 是不是我讓那個我跟委員報告 第一個就是我們台電公司的這個福利金的總額從來沒有減少過 而且是在往上升的因為他每年會看狀況不一樣 那剛委員所提的說是不是營業收入這個部分會受電價原來這個 這個我們會去檢討\n但是我要跟委員報告就是說所有員工的那個福利金我們從來沒有減少過一塊錢是往上升的是是但是你的總額是在減少的沒有沒有總額是在上升總額在上升對我要跟委員特別報告所以每個人的平均的那個福利金也是在上升的所以我們要考慮到四家公司有油電糖水四家因為營業狀況不一樣他的福利金可能會不一樣那我們這個會去檢討大概給我們一個月的時間\n臺水現在有超過7萬6千公里的自來水管需要維護跟更新。第二個水價長期一國兩制這是本席要質詢的重點根本就對我全台灣人民來講完全沒有用水正義水費的規則是偏利於用水大幅的像台積電等等這些都是叫做用水大幅但是他們\n所收的費用他們的耗水之高我們在台水北水是有給他規定的但是台水是沒有的再來第三成本上漲利息沉重第四個自行舉債舉措經費我們現在非常自豪的我也非常肯定台水的那個漏水利的一個減少但是是他們舉債\n這是舉在來降低我們的漏水率那7萬6千公里的管線維護的成本高我們看世界各國主要城市的漏水率右邊這張圖我們排在第6名\n這個是不容易耶,雖然我們離法國那個第5名12.54%到9%我們還差了3點多%這其實是有點差距但總是我們有第6名那這7萬6千公里的這個管線全台灣這個是什麼概念就是繞地球兩圈的管路概念那台水這樣的漏水力還能夠維持\n還能維持這麼高我覺得真的是了不起那他付出了什麼代價他付出了全台灣他只有80位的水醫生這個水醫生每天都要走上萬公里啊然後再來他付出什麼代價只要我們全台灣哪裡有地下水管破裂水公司一定都第一次第一線每幾分鐘十分鐘內都一定要趕快抵達或者一定會被罵臭頭\n可是他的這樣的維護成本之高維持這麼低的漏水率但是他付出這樣的代價但是他也自負盈虧舉債來修漏水我們從102年到113年有效的降水這樣降水的這個比例降了7.55%也就是降低漏水率超過一座的10門水庫達2.55%\n臺水的借款負債達1044.25億新台幣\n這對一家公司來講這不破產才怪那再來呢所以這邊我具體要求第一個比照台北自來水事務處研議每月用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費集聚來漲水用水增益用水增益是對全台灣2300萬人民我說對台積電這種用水大廠\n你絕對只要水電限電限水都限在什麼地方限在人民用水限在農業用水限在中小企業的用水台積電等這種耗水廠你絕對不敢給他限水或者停電絕對不敢可是我是用人民可是你不敢去我們的台水公司不敢我不曉得什麼理由你們不敢去對比照這個北水台北市做得到你反而做不到欸\n但你的用水正義在哪裡我用人民的納稅人大部分百分之百的納稅人去支持你大企業限電限水的時候又他們不停我們所有人都要停這個叫截貧什麼濟富啊就是這種髒水正義那第二個呢這個虧損啊1044億當中請\n那個經濟部也比照台電、中油請經濟部向中央爭取兩年爭取撥補來解決台水的負債第三個我們進行老舊管線正式編預算來降低百分之二再降低百分之二的這個漏水率部長您針對台水這個用水正義的部分您怎麼回覆以及在撥補的部分您要不要做努力我們會來努力\n臺水檢討用水大戶只徵收了耗水費,耗水費只是水利署在拿,臺水一點都沒受益,所以在用水大戶新增的收費基金你要不要處理,一個月內給我答案好嗎?\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.330 --> 00:04.179\n請林岱樺委員有請部長請郭部長\n\n00:13.717 --> 00:31.364\n委員長部長本席針對台電跟台水那我們先從台電台電的這個福利金這個我本席認為應該要檢討那原因是什麼少子化導致國營事業員工的招聘困難\n\n00:32.344 --> 00:47.698\n那民間的企業薪酬的條件都已經優於國營事業的幾乎基礎在薪酬規範的限制下如何藉由其他的福利跟保障將成為國營事業招聘薪水的關鍵好那這個福利金呢是不是這個\n\n00:50.180 --> 01:06.278\n在這個福利金的算法其實福利金不是給所有的員工他是在一個專款專戶當中那他的算法是福利金的預算是來自營業收入的總額乘以福利金的提撥\n\n01:07.679 --> 01:32.574\n這個算完之後還要扣這四項因為這四項認為說這個不是員工努力的所以我應該要扣除它第一個要扣除政府補助的收入要這個福利金的計算當中還要扣除這個政府補助的收入這要提出掉不能算入福利金的計算增加的因素那核能後端的營業收入也要扣掉電價調漲\n\n01:35.896 --> 01:45.564\n這是不是會增加營業收入這件事情也要扣掉這個電腦有問題好嗎電腦有問題我們請停止一下好不好時間先暫停我們時間先暫停好來\n\n02:04.976 --> 02:31.749\n好這個畫面不對好OK那我們恢復謝謝主席好那第四個要扣除的非屬員工共限制收入這四個其實有道理但是我認為檢討的這是第三項電價調漲的因素我先回顧之前這個提撥的比例我們其實法定的提撥比例也就是上面那個公式上頁的那個公式右邊的福利金提撥率\n\n02:33.230 --> 02:38.156\n這個提撥率法定的是要0.15%可是我們從來沒有提撥滿額到0.15%我們最多就是到110年的0.12%好我們看喔\n\n02:48.187 --> 03:09.769\n會有包括提破率最低的時候是民國97年的時候提破率才0.1%我們法定是0.15為什麼因為那時候民國90年說應該把電價調漲這件因素把它剔除掉電價調漲會增加收入所以我應該剔除掉在當時的時空背景97年立法院的附帶據本期支持\n\n03:10.450 --> 03:22.594\n因為他那時候的這個相關的油料啊這個相關的都下降嘛所以這個台電是這個營收非常的豐厚所以你還去調漲電價那這怎麼可以變成是員工的這個因素呢好\n\n03:26.895 --> 03:38.458\n那現在的情況不一樣囉現在是我們的二屋戰爭也好那美中的這個區域經濟的競爭也好導致說我現在把我的這個電價的調漲這件事情納入我要福利金是不是也應該要把它扣除掉這件事情我認為是應該要檢討的所以今天我們會調降電價的調漲這個是人員政策啊\n\n03:54.942 --> 04:12.177\n這個不是台電阿這個現在的電價調漲是為了彌補台電購電成本的增加並非台電員工不努力可是我現在的人員政策電價調漲變成處罰台電員工了我必須扣除台電同仁的福利金了\n\n04:13.158 --> 04:28.033\n所以本席主張應該要檢討臺電同仁的福利金這一樣維持90之年的提案只是有一個但書臺電不得以電價調漲所增加的營業收入來增加員工福利金但\n\n04:28.793 --> 04:47.943\n在營業總額有盈餘的情況之下這不再實現也就是說只要有盈餘當然我的你還敢去漲電價再增加我本來已經有盈餘再去再去再去漲那當然我就必須把你的這個福利金當中應該扣掉這個因素所以我覺得做應該要做這樣的調漲也就是說電價調漲用於是在彌補台電虧損的情況之下則\n\n04:54.946 --> 05:12.177\n應該刪除電價調漲作為福利金的檢向,部長你怎麼看?我認同委員的垂詢,這個部分我們回去根據您的垂詢我們來討論一下,我們來檢討一下。大概多久呢?\n\n05:14.571 --> 05:40.465\n這個部分我想這個因為是法規定的啦這個只是員工裡面的這個只是附帶決議裡面的內規是不是我讓那個我跟委員報告第一個就是我們台電公司的這個福利金的總額從來沒有減少過而且是在往上升的因為他每年會看狀況不一樣那剛委員所提的說是不是營業收入這個部分會受電價原來這個這個我們會去檢討\n\n05:42.706 --> 06:04.438\n但是我要跟委員報告就是說所有員工的那個福利金我們從來沒有減少過一塊錢是往上升的是是但是你的總額是在減少的沒有沒有總額是在上升總額在上升對我要跟委員特別報告所以每個人的平均的那個福利金也是在上升的所以我們要考慮到四家公司有油電糖水四家因為營業狀況不一樣他的福利金可能會不一樣那我們這個會去檢討大概給我們一個月的時間\n\n06:07.159 --> 06:13.102\n臺水現在有超過7萬6千公里的自來水管需要維護跟更新。第二個水價長期一國兩制這是本席要質詢的重點根本就對我全台灣人民來講完全沒有用水正義水費的規則是偏利於用水大幅的像台積電等等這些都是叫做用水大幅但是他們\n\n06:37.072 --> 06:59.717\n所收的費用他們的耗水之高我們在台水北水是有給他規定的但是台水是沒有的再來第三成本上漲利息沉重第四個自行舉債舉措經費我們現在非常自豪的我也非常肯定台水的那個漏水利的一個減少但是是他們舉債\n\n07:01.698 --> 07:12.411\n這是舉在來降低我們的漏水率那7萬6千公里的管線維護的成本高我們看世界各國主要城市的漏水率右邊這張圖我們排在第6名\n\n07:16.876 --> 07:38.022\n這個是不容易耶,雖然我們離法國那個第5名12.54%到9%我們還差了3點多%這其實是有點差距但總是我們有第6名那這7萬6千公里的這個管線全台灣這個是什麼概念就是繞地球兩圈的管路概念那台水這樣的漏水力還能夠維持\n\n07:39.202 --> 08:03.910\n還能維持這麼高我覺得真的是了不起那他付出了什麼代價他付出了全台灣他只有80位的水醫生這個水醫生每天都要走上萬公里啊然後再來他付出什麼代價只要我們全台灣哪裡有地下水管破裂水公司一定都第一次第一線每幾分鐘十分鐘內都一定要趕快抵達或者一定會被罵臭頭\n\n08:05.850 --> 08:27.895\n可是他的這樣的維護成本之高維持這麼低的漏水率但是他付出這樣的代價但是他也自負盈虧舉債來修漏水我們從102年到113年有效的降水這樣降水的這個比例降了7.55%也就是降低漏水率超過一座的10門水庫達2.55%\n\n08:30.316 --> 08:31.017\n臺水的借款負債達1044.25億新台幣\n\n08:54.237 --> 09:11.483\n這對一家公司來講這不破產才怪那再來呢所以這邊我具體要求第一個比照台北自來水事務處研議每月用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費集聚來漲水用水增益用水增益是對全台灣2300萬人民我說對台積電這種用水大廠\n\n09:16.244 --> 09:44.689\n你絕對只要水電限電限水都限在什麼地方限在人民用水限在農業用水限在中小企業的用水台積電等這種耗水廠你絕對不敢給他限水或者停電絕對不敢可是我是用人民可是你不敢去我們的台水公司不敢我不曉得什麼理由你們不敢去對比照這個北水台北市做得到你反而做不到欸\n\n09:45.909 --> 09:59.684\n但你的用水正義在哪裡我用人民的納稅人大部分百分之百的納稅人去支持你大企業限電限水的時候又他們不停我們所有人都要停這個叫截貧什麼濟富啊就是這種髒水正義那第二個呢這個虧損啊1044億當中請\n\n10:05.811 --> 10:28.835\n那個經濟部也比照台電、中油請經濟部向中央爭取兩年爭取撥補來解決台水的負債第三個我們進行老舊管線正式編預算來降低百分之二再降低百分之二的這個漏水率部長您針對台水這個用水正義的部分您怎麼回覆以及在撥補的部分您要不要做努力我們會來努力\n\n10:30.836 --> 10:47.591\n臺水檢討用水大戶只徵收了耗水費,耗水費只是水利署在拿,臺水一點都沒受益,所以在用水大戶新增的收費基金你要不要處理,一個月內給我答案好嗎?\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.33,"end":4.179,"text":"請林岱樺委員有請部長請郭部長"},{"start":13.717,"end":31.364,"text":"委員長部長本席針對台電跟台水那我們先從台電台電的這個福利金這個我本席認為應該要檢討那原因是什麼少子化導致國營事業員工的招聘困難"},{"start":32.344,"end":47.698,"text":"那民間的企業薪酬的條件都已經優於國營事業的幾乎基礎在薪酬規範的限制下如何藉由其他的福利跟保障將成為國營事業招聘薪水的關鍵好那這個福利金呢是不是這個"},{"start":50.18,"end":66.278,"text":"在這個福利金的算法其實福利金不是給所有的員工他是在一個專款專戶當中那他的算法是福利金的預算是來自營業收入的總額乘以福利金的提撥"},{"start":67.679,"end":92.574,"text":"這個算完之後還要扣這四項因為這四項認為說這個不是員工努力的所以我應該要扣除它第一個要扣除政府補助的收入要這個福利金的計算當中還要扣除這個政府補助的收入這要提出掉不能算入福利金的計算增加的因素那核能後端的營業收入也要扣掉電價調漲"},{"start":95.896,"end":105.564,"text":"這是不是會增加營業收入這件事情也要扣掉這個電腦有問題好嗎電腦有問題我們請停止一下好不好時間先暫停我們時間先暫停好來"},{"start":124.976,"end":151.749,"text":"好 這個畫面不對好 OK 那我們恢復 謝謝主席好 那第四個要扣除的非屬員工共限制收入這四個其實有道理但是我認為檢討的這是第三項電價調漲的因素我先回顧之前這個提撥的比例我們其實法定的提撥比例也就是上面那個公式上頁的那個公式右邊的福利金提撥率"},{"start":153.23,"end":158.156,"text":"這個提撥率法定的是要0.15%可是我們從來沒有提撥滿額到0.15%我們最多就是到110年的0.12%好我們看喔"},{"start":168.187,"end":189.769,"text":"會有包括提破率最低的時候是民國97年的時候提破率才0.1%我們法定是0.15為什麼因為那時候民國90年說應該把電價調漲這件因素把它剔除掉電價調漲會增加收入所以我應該剔除掉在當時的時空背景97年立法院的附帶據本期支持"},{"start":190.45,"end":202.594,"text":"因為他那時候的這個相關的油料啊這個相關的都下降嘛所以這個台電是這個營收非常的豐厚所以你還去調漲電價那這怎麼可以變成是員工的這個因素呢好"},{"start":206.895,"end":218.458,"text":"那現在的情況不一樣囉現在是我們的二屋戰爭也好那美中的這個區域經濟的競爭也好導致說我現在把我的這個電價的調漲這件事情納入我要福利金是不是也應該要把它扣除掉這件事情我認為是應該要檢討的所以今天我們會調降電價的調漲這個是人員政策啊"},{"start":234.942,"end":252.177,"text":"這個不是台電阿這個現在的電價調漲是為了彌補台電購電成本的增加並非台電員工不努力可是我現在的人員政策電價調漲變成處罰台電員工了我必須扣除台電同仁的福利金了"},{"start":253.158,"end":268.033,"text":"所以本席主張應該要檢討臺電同仁的福利金這一樣維持90之年的提案只是有一個但書臺電不得以電價調漲所增加的營業收入來增加員工福利金但"},{"start":268.793,"end":287.943,"text":"在營業總額有盈餘的情況之下這不再實現也就是說只要有盈餘當然我的你還敢去漲電價再增加我本來已經有盈餘再去再去再去漲那當然我就必須把你的這個福利金當中應該扣掉這個因素所以我覺得做應該要做這樣的調漲也就是說電價調漲用於是在彌補台電虧損的情況之下則"},{"start":294.946,"end":312.177,"text":"應該刪除電價調漲作為福利金的檢向,部長你怎麼看?我認同委員的垂詢,這個部分我們回去根據您的垂詢我們來討論一下,我們來檢討一下。大概多久呢?"},{"start":314.571,"end":340.465,"text":"這個部分我想 這個因為是法規定的啦 這個只是員工裡面的 這個只是附帶決議裡面的內規 是不是我讓那個我跟委員報告 第一個就是我們台電公司的這個福利金的總額從來沒有減少過 而且是在往上升的因為他每年會看狀況不一樣 那剛委員所提的說是不是營業收入這個部分會受電價原來這個 這個我們會去檢討"},{"start":342.706,"end":364.438,"text":"但是我要跟委員報告就是說所有員工的那個福利金我們從來沒有減少過一塊錢是往上升的是是但是你的總額是在減少的沒有沒有總額是在上升總額在上升對我要跟委員特別報告所以每個人的平均的那個福利金也是在上升的所以我們要考慮到四家公司有油電糖水四家因為營業狀況不一樣他的福利金可能會不一樣那我們這個會去檢討大概給我們一個月的時間"},{"start":367.159,"end":373.102,"text":"臺水現在有超過7萬6千公里的自來水管需要維護跟更新。第二個水價長期一國兩制這是本席要質詢的重點根本就對我全台灣人民來講完全沒有用水正義水費的規則是偏利於用水大幅的像台積電等等這些都是叫做用水大幅但是他們"},{"start":397.072,"end":419.717,"text":"所收的費用他們的耗水之高我們在台水北水是有給他規定的但是台水是沒有的再來第三成本上漲利息沉重第四個自行舉債舉措經費我們現在非常自豪的我也非常肯定台水的那個漏水利的一個減少但是是他們舉債"},{"start":421.698,"end":432.411,"text":"這是舉在來降低我們的漏水率那7萬6千公里的管線維護的成本高我們看世界各國主要城市的漏水率右邊這張圖我們排在第6名"},{"start":436.876,"end":458.022,"text":"這個是不容易耶,雖然我們離法國那個第5名12.54%到9%我們還差了3點多%這其實是有點差距但總是我們有第6名那這7萬6千公里的這個管線全台灣這個是什麼概念就是繞地球兩圈的管路概念那台水這樣的漏水力還能夠維持"},{"start":459.202,"end":483.91,"text":"還能維持這麼高我覺得真的是了不起那他付出了什麼代價他付出了全台灣他只有80位的水醫生這個水醫生每天都要走上萬公里啊然後再來他付出什麼代價只要我們全台灣哪裡有地下水管破裂水公司一定都第一次第一線每幾分鐘十分鐘內都一定要趕快抵達或者一定會被罵臭頭"},{"start":485.85,"end":507.895,"text":"可是他的這樣的維護成本之高維持這麼低的漏水率但是他付出這樣的代價但是他也自負盈虧舉債來修漏水我們從102年到113年有效的降水這樣降水的這個比例降了7.55%也就是降低漏水率超過一座的10門水庫達2.55%"},{"start":510.316,"end":511.017,"text":"臺水的借款負債達1044.25億新台幣"},{"start":534.237,"end":551.483,"text":"這對一家公司來講這不破產才怪那再來呢所以這邊我具體要求第一個比照台北自來水事務處研議每月用水1000噸以上的用水大幅新增收費集聚來漲水用水增益用水增益是對全台灣2300萬人民我說對台積電這種用水大廠"},{"start":556.244,"end":584.689,"text":"你絕對只要水電限電限水都限在什麼地方限在人民用水限在農業用水限在中小企業的用水台積電等這種耗水廠你絕對不敢給他限水或者停電絕對不敢可是我是用人民可是你不敢去我們的台水公司不敢我不曉得什麼理由你們不敢去對比照這個北水台北市做得到你反而做不到欸"},{"start":585.909,"end":599.684,"text":"但你的用水正義在哪裡我用人民的納稅人大部分百分之百的納稅人去支持你大企業限電限水的時候又他們不停我們所有人都要停這個叫截貧什麼濟富啊就是這種髒水正義那第二個呢這個虧損啊1044億當中請"},{"start":605.811,"end":628.835,"text":"那個經濟部也比照台電、中油請經濟部向中央爭取兩年爭取撥補來解決台水的負債第三個我們進行老舊管線正式編預算來降低百分之二再降低百分之二的這個漏水率部長您針對台水這個用水正義的部分您怎麼回覆以及在撥補的部分您要不要做努力我們會來努力"},{"start":630.836,"end":647.591,"text":"臺水檢討用水大戶只徵收了耗水費,耗水費只是水利署在拿,臺水一點都沒受益,所以在用水大戶新增的收費基金你要不要處理,一個月內給我答案好嗎?"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":377,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（10時5分）有請部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["林委員岱樺：部長，本席針對台電跟台水有一些問題要請教，我們先從台電開始，有關台電的福利金，本席認為應該要檢討，原因是什麼？少子化導致國營事業員工招聘困難，民間企業的薪酬條件都已經優於國營事業的給付基礎，在薪酬規範的限制下，如何藉由其他的福利跟保障，將成為國營事業招聘新血的關鍵。這個福利金的算法，其實福利金不是給所有的員工，而是在一個專款專戶當中，福利金預算是營業收入總額乘以福利金提撥率，算完之後還要扣除這四項，因為認為這四項不是員工努力的，所以應該要予以扣除。第一個是要扣除政府補助收入，在福利金的計算當中要扣除政府補助收入，這個要剔除掉，不能算入福利金計算的增加因素，核能後端營運收入也要扣掉，還有電價調漲會增加營業收入，這個部分也要扣掉。","這個電腦有問題，我們請停止一下，好不好？"],["主席：時間先暫停。"],["林委員岱樺：好，OK，我們恢復了，謝謝主席。第四個要扣除的是非屬員工貢獻之收入。這四個其實有道理，但是我認為要檢討的是第三項的電價調漲因素，我先回顧之前提撥的比率，其實法定的提撥比率就是上一頁上面的那個公式，右邊是福利金提撥率，提撥率法定是要0.15%，可是我們從來沒有提撥滿額到0.15%，我們最多就是110年的0.12%。好，我們來看，提撥率最低的時候是民國97年，提撥率才0.1%，而我們法定提撥率是0.15%，為什麼？因為民國97年說應該把電價調漲這個因素予以剔除，電價調漲會增加收入，所以應該剔除掉，在當時的時空背景下，97年立法院通過了附帶決議，本席支持，因為那時候相關的油料等等都下降嘛，所以台電的營收非常豐厚，然後還去調漲電價，這怎麼可以變成是員工的因素呢！但現在的情況不一樣了，現在是俄烏戰爭也好，美中區域經濟的競爭也好，導致現在福利金是不是應該要把電價調漲予以扣除掉的這件事情，我認為是應該要檢討的。","今天我們會做電價的調漲，這個是能源政策啊，這個政策不是台電制定的，現在的電價調漲是為了彌補台電購電成本的增加，並非台電員工不努力，可是現在的能源政策導致電價調漲卻變成在處罰台電員工，因為必須扣除台電同仁福利金，所以本席主張應該要檢討台電同仁的福利金，一樣維持97年的提案，只是有一個但書：台電不得以電價調漲所增加的營業收入增加員工福利金。但在營業總額有盈餘的情況之下，則不在此限。也就是說，只要有盈餘，你還敢去漲電價，本來就已經有盈餘了，還要再去漲，當然在福利金當中就必須要扣掉這個因素，所以我覺得應該要做這樣的調整，也就是說，電價調漲的用意是在彌補台電虧損的情況之下，則應該刪除電價調漲作為福利金的減項，部長怎麼看？"],["郭部長智輝：我認同委員的垂詢啦，這個部分我們回去會根據您的垂詢再來討論一下，我們來檢討一下。"],["林委員岱樺：好，大概多久呢？"],["郭部長智輝：這個部分，因為這是法規定的啦，所以可能要……"],["林委員岱樺：這個只是附帶決議，你們的內規，是不是我讓……"],["郭部長智輝：這應該不是內規吧？我是不是請國營司司長來答復？"],["林委員岱樺：好，請國營司司長。"],["胡司長文中：跟委員報告，第一個就是台電公司的福利金總額從來沒有減少過，而且是在往上升的，因為每年會看狀況而不一樣。剛剛委員所提的，是不是營業收入會受電價調漲影響的部分，這個我們會去檢討。但是我要跟委員報告，所有員工的福利金我們從來沒有減少過一塊錢，是往上升的。"],["林委員岱樺：是、是，但是總額是在減少的嘛！"],["胡司長文中：沒有、沒有，總額是在上升。"],["林委員岱樺：喔，總額在上升？"],["胡司長文中：總額在上升，我要跟委員特別報告，所以每個人平均的福利金也是在上升的，我們要考慮到油、電、糖、水這四家公司因為營業狀況不一樣，他們的福利金可能會不一樣，這個我們會去檢討，大概給我們一個月的時間。"],["林委員岱樺：好，一個月，謝謝。","我們來看台水公司的部分，台水的虧損有四個原因，第一個是養護面積太大，台水現在有超過7萬6,000公里的自來水管需要維護跟更新；第二個是水價長期一國兩制，這是本席要質詢的重點，對我全臺灣人民來講根本是完全沒有用水正義，水費規則偏利於用水大戶，像台積電等等這些都是用水大戶，他們的耗水之高但是他們所收的費用，北水是有給它規定的喔，可是台水是沒有的。再來第三個是成本上漲、利息沉重；第四個是自行舉債籌措經費，我們現在非常自豪的，我也非常肯定台水的是漏水率的減少，但是他們是舉債來降低我們的漏水率喔。","台水7萬6,000公里的管線，維護成本高昂，我們來看世界各國主要城市的漏水率，右邊這張圖，我們排在第六名，真的是不容易耶，雖然我們的12.54%離第五名法國的9%還差了百分之三點多，這其實是有點差距，但我們總是有第六名。全臺灣7萬6,000公里的管線是什麼概念？就是繞地球兩圈的管路概念，這樣台水的漏水率排名還能夠維持這麼高，我覺得真的是了不起。台水付出了什麼代價？他們只有80位水醫生，這些水醫生每天都要走上萬公里啊！再來，台水付出了什麼代價？只要我們全臺灣哪裡有地下水管破裂，水公司一定都第一時間、第一線的，在幾分鐘、10分鐘內一定要趕快抵達，否則一定會被罵到臭頭。它的維護成本之高，還維持這麼低的漏水率，所以它付出了這樣的代價──自負盈虧，舉債來修漏水。從102年到113年有效的降低漏水狀況7.55%，也就是降低漏水超過一座石門水庫（2.05億噸）的自來水。台水公司在沒有調漲水價的情況下，自行舉債，還有辦法達到這樣的績效，為了降漏水率而做了這樣的努力，自行舉債，我要讓部長知道這個數據，到去年12月，台水的借款負債達1,044.25億新臺幣，這對一家公司來講不破產才怪！","所以在這邊我具體要求，第一個，比照臺北自來水事業處，研議每月用水1,000噸以上的用水大戶，新增收費級距，以彰顯用水正義，用水正義是對全臺灣2,300萬人民，我說對台積電這種用水大廠，絕對是給水給電，限電、限水都限在什麼地方？限在人民用水、限在農業用水、限在中小企業的用水，台積電等這種耗水廠，你絕對不敢給它限水或者停電，絕對不敢！可是我是用人民……"],["主席：好，謝謝，林委員發言時間到了。"],["林委員岱樺：可是我們的台水公司不敢，我不曉得是什麼理由，你們不敢去比照北水，臺北市做得到，你反而做不到欸！你的用水正義在哪裡？我們的納稅人，大部分臺灣的納稅人去支持大企業，限電限水的時候他們不停而我們所有人都要停，這個叫劫貧濟富啊！所以就是要彰顯用水正義。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["林委員岱樺：第二個，虧損的1,044億當中，請經濟部也比照台電、中油，請經濟部向中央爭取分二年撥補來解決台水的負債。第三個，我們進行老舊管線的汰換，正式編預算再降低2%的漏水率。部長，您針對台水的用水正義部分，您怎麼回復？以及撥補的部分，您要不要做努力？"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：我們會來努力。"],["林委員岱樺：台水部分的檢討，對於用水大戶，你們只徵收了耗水費……"],["主席：謝謝，發言時間到了！"],["林委員岱樺：耗水費是水利署在拿，台水一點都沒受益，所以對用水大戶新增收費級距，您要不要處理？一個月內也給我答案，好嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：好的。"],["林委員岱樺：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，部長請先回座。","下一位質詢請賴瑞隆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-15","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","陳超明","羅智強","賴士葆","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","葉元之","林德福"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣電力股份有限公\n司、台灣自來水股份有限公司（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00001"}}}