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\"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,931 --> 00:00:01,391\n李俊逸秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:10,016 --> 00:00:36,745\n委員長好其實我一直在想委員長應該你也很清楚這一次的一個預算司法法制委員會裡面就一定是你們家最慘的嘛還有跟司法院一定是最慘的嘛這下就再說大家都哭到旁邊去到後面也是誰一直在打你嘴巴給你留尊敬都假的你知道嗎告訴你一直在打你迷迷茫茫的其實整個監察院未來要何去何從\n\n3\n00:00:39,182 --> 00:01:02,561\n我們都知道很清楚要怎麼處理我們都提過案但是我們都是覺得說如果是一個根本之道其實要透過修憲的一個方式讓老百姓來真正來做一個決定的一個方式那你現在就是存在了它現在存在光去砍預算現在民眾黨他們是認為說監察院是一個廢物院\n\n4\n00:01:05,963 --> 00:01:24,116\n我們以前是不說我這麼難聽,以前說他盲腸,我可以說他回歸到像三權分立的國家這樣子可是啦,以現在機關在存在的話,那預算如果像是民眾黨講的說,要不然剩一塊給你們就好,你猜你們監察院的員工會怎麼樣的反應\n\n5\n00:01:27,810 --> 00:01:37,896\n而這個部分會造成監察院所有相關的職權沒有辦法行使那這個民主黨我的看法就跟你不一樣我如果是你監察院的員工我第一個想法就是耶!\n\n6\n00:01:37,896 --> 00:01:37,936\n痛死!\n\n7\n00:01:37,936 --> 00:01:40,918\n這事都不能做啊今年24明年25二五沒有碰到選舉年啊那26你就真的是很麻煩啊\n\n8\n00:01:48,502 --> 00:02:02,691\n你整個政治獻金法第4條的一個規定就是受理政治獻金的一個申報本來就是你們的職責嘛那如果說到最後這個2022到20這是預測啦2025如果都一樣都延續這樣的一個方式的話那你認為會不會出很大的一個問題啊\n\n9\n00:02:12,148 --> 00:02:38,687\n一定會啊一定會啊如果傷我們的預算造成我們沒法實際運作那當然會影響我們的權責這個可能還涉及違憲的問題是會涉及到違憲的問題喔大法官4-612就有講阿如果存一項阿你們有沒辦法做慷慨阿沒辦法做慷慨大家痛到其實大家立法院都覺得是在修理監察院我覺得不是這個就是在讓監察院變得很爽的一個單位\n\n10\n00:02:40,987 --> 00:02:41,007\n﹚審查\n\n11\n00:03:11,187 --> 00:03:39,401\n他去專責保護兒童人權以便在兒童人權公約通過以後可以有效保障兒童人權波蘭跟匈牙利他允許監察機關將調查獲得具體的建議直接去移送到法院裡面去那臺灣我們在2000年各界呼籲設立國家人權委員會當初是說到底要設在總統府啊行政院啊或者監察院啊不一樣的意見2020年以後通過監察院國家人權委員會的一個組織法\n\n12\n00:03:40,641 --> 00:03:57,114\n本席想就教的就是說以目前監察院的人權委員會是不是應該有更重要的貢獻來讓民眾來瞭解目前業務的一個狀況因為本席一直認為說人權委員會\n\n13\n00:04:01,432 --> 00:04:17,977\n與其是監察院現在被杯格說什麼廢物院什麼講的都這麼難聽可是畢竟還沒有修憲之前反而是在整個人權委員會方面他應該可以有積極的貢獻我不曉得這部分秘書長你的看法怎麼樣\n\n14\n00:04:18,477 --> 00:04:35,157\n我這個部分確實如此我們也正努力在這樣做人權委員會成立到現在其實我們做過的事情相當多特別大家對人權委員會有很多的期待那我們的組織法第二條裡面規定了九項職權幾乎包山包海所有的人權都人權委員會要負責推動\n\n15\n00:04:37,579 --> 00:05:04,369\n這個部分所以我們到現在為止人權委員會有5個國家報告的獨立評估意見然後有10個專案的報告然後另外我們的案件有200多件那還有其他我們幾乎每年的活動都非常非常的多造成我們人權委員會的同仁非常的辛苦非常的累那現在也招不到人所以這個部分是我們一直在積極做的我們也希望人員能夠增加然後讓我們發揮更大的功能\n\n16\n00:05:04,989 --> 00:05:19,523\n本席一直認為說在監察院裡面人權委員會如果是整個按照整個組織反映它的功能去可以再去是進一步去發揮它的一個功能的話去可以更落實對整個人權實質上的一個保障為什麼這樣講呢\n\n17\n00:05:21,665 --> 00:05:43,280\n比如說在2000年期間2020年期間我就覺得非常可惜了2020年疫情期間那個時候疫情期間很多國家發布了有影響到人權的緊急命令比如說鎖國封城遷徙的自由檢疫隔離限制旅行自由這些等等還甚至很多學校也去關閉了影響到學生的一個受教權\n\n18\n00:05:44,221 --> 00:06:01,033\n在國際上其實在比如說聯合國的國際人權委員會或者是經濟社會文化權利委員會或者說兒童權利委員會幾個單位裡面他們是立即的去發布了幾個緊急的一個指引\n\n19\n00:06:01,934 --> 00:06:23,888\n他們發布了指引要求各國你在限制老百姓正當的權利的時候你要去明定確保國家一方面要求人民在居家隔離限制一定範圍的一個活動的時候你讓傳染病可以去得到一二指另一方面又不會去過度侵犯到人民的基本權\n\n20\n00:06:25,592 --> 00:06:26,393\n我相信秘書長一定特別有感\n\n21\n00:06:52,580 --> 00:07:06,434\n這個確實就不夠了你跟國際上來做比較的話我們這個部分我們人權委員會是不是你發揮的積極的然後去做一個引導作用更主動的\n\n22\n00:07:07,549 --> 00:07:36,112\n相較國際上這些人權組織來看的話我不曉得民主黨你的看法我非常認同莊委員的看法但是我必須說明一下就是2020年8月我們才正式成立在兵荒馬亂然後又碰到疫情那幸虧就是我們的所謂衛福部提的防疫措施並沒有太大幅度的影響到我們的人權這個也是台灣的防疫措施被世界各國所肯定的一個原因\n\n23\n00:07:36,732 --> 00:07:37,092\n本期一直很在意的就是說\n\n24\n00:08:05,473 --> 00:08:10,238\n2020年當然是人權委剛好剛成立那當然是說你說人權這個人手或者說經驗或者說我們整個成立之初剛好又碰到疫情那你很難去跟國際上這樣子運作長久的這些機構來做一個比較可是我就覺得最主要是那個觀念的問題了\n\n25\n00:08:26,716 --> 00:08:29,318\n監察院本來就一直強調事後的監督一直強調事後的一個監督他沒有去意識到你整個國家人權委員會其實你可以發揮更積極的一個作用人權就不是事後人權要主動積極完全同意\n\n26\n00:08:46,429 --> 00:09:00,420\n如果人權委員會一直強調在事後的一個監督的話而不是在第一時間去接軌其他國家的重要的聲明你說在防疫期間過度限縮人民基本權利的積極作為這個當初是真的有點可惜啦真的有點可惜啦所以因為我\n\n27\n00:09:01,681 --> 00:09:27,292\n我也非常清楚民主黨已經非常有一番當一個監察院的幕僚長可是這方面其實應該在人權委員會的部分不管是私底下或者說你們在討論之間真的是要形成這一些委員他自己本身要有一個積極面要有一個共識存在否則這真的太可惜了你說監察院說廢掉好不好廢掉很好啊\n\n28\n00:09:27,932 --> 00:09:54,237\n可是人權委員會這個部分這個我反而會覺得如果說你積極去做一個精進的話會變成監察院未來存廢之外走出的另外一條康莊大道我覺得這個對人權的一個保障對整個國家來看的話長遠的發展來看的話是非常積極又正面不管監察院存不存在人權委員會應該要存在而且應該是一個獨立機關\n\n29\n00:09:55,757 --> 00:10:13,492\n但是現在組織法裡面還不是一個完全獨立機關所以我們還會在我們的範圍內繼續的來進進我們的人權委員也非常非常的積極我倒覺得說這個部分今天特別提出來來做跟民主黨做這樣的一個請教謝謝莊委員的建議\n\n30\n00:10:14,693 --> 00:10:15,053\n拜託中委員多支持\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n931\t1391\t李俊逸秘書長\n10016\t36745\t委員長好其實我一直在想委員長應該你也很清楚這一次的一個預算司法法制委員會裡面就一定是你們家最慘的嘛還有跟司法院一定是最慘的嘛這下就再說大家都哭到旁邊去到後面也是誰一直在打你嘴巴給你留尊敬都假的你知道嗎告訴你一直在打你迷迷茫茫的其實整個監察院未來要何去何從\n39182\t62561\t我們都知道很清楚要怎麼處理我們都提過案但是我們都是覺得說如果是一個根本之道其實要透過修憲的一個方式讓老百姓來真正來做一個決定的一個方式那你現在就是存在了它現在存在光去砍預算現在民眾黨他們是認為說監察院是一個廢物院\n65963\t84116\t我們以前是不說我這麼難聽,以前說他盲腸,我可以說他回歸到像三權分立的國家這樣子可是啦,以現在機關在存在的話,那預算如果像是民眾黨講的說,要不然剩一塊給你們就好,你猜你們監察院的員工會怎麼樣的反應\n87810\t97896\t而這個部分會造成監察院所有相關的職權沒有辦法行使那這個民主黨我的看法就跟你不一樣我如果是你監察院的員工我第一個想法就是耶!\n97896\t97936\t痛死!\n97936\t100918\t這事都不能做啊今年24明年25二五沒有碰到選舉年啊那26你就真的是很麻煩啊\n108502\t122691\t你整個政治獻金法第4條的一個規定就是受理政治獻金的一個申報本來就是你們的職責嘛那如果說到最後這個2022到20這是預測啦2025如果都一樣都延續這樣的一個方式的話那你認為會不會出很大的一個問題啊\n132148\t158687\t一定會啊 一定會啊 如果傷我們的預算造成我們沒法實際運作那當然會影響我們的權責 這個可能還涉及違憲的問題是 會涉及到違憲的問題喔大法官4-612就有講阿如果存一項阿你們有 沒辦法做慷慨阿沒辦法做慷慨 大家痛到 其實大家立法院都覺得是在修理監察院 我覺得不是 這個就是在讓監察院變得很爽的一個單位\n160987\t161007\t﹚審查\n191187\t219401\t他去專責保護兒童人權以便在兒童人權公約通過以後可以有效保障兒童人權波蘭跟匈牙利他允許監察機關將調查獲得具體的建議直接去移送到法院裡面去那臺灣我們在2000年各界呼籲設立國家人權委員會當初是說到底要設在總統府啊行政院啊或者監察院啊不一樣的意見2020年以後通過監察院國家人權委員會的一個組織法\n220641\t237114\t本席想就教的就是說以目前監察院的人權委員會是不是應該有更重要的貢獻來讓民眾來瞭解目前業務的一個狀況因為本席一直認為說人權委員會\n241432\t257977\t與其是監察院現在被杯格說什麼廢物院什麼講的都這麼難聽可是畢竟還沒有修憲之前反而是在整個人權委員會方面他應該可以有積極的貢獻我不曉得這部分秘書長你的看法怎麼樣\n258477\t275157\t我這個部分確實如此我們也正努力在這樣做人權委員會成立到現在其實我們做過的事情相當多特別大家對人權委員會有很多的期待那我們的組織法第二條裡面規定了九項職權幾乎包山包海所有的人權都人權委員會要負責推動\n277579\t304369\t這個部分所以我們到現在為止人權委員會有5個國家報告的獨立評估意見然後有10個專案的報告然後另外我們的案件有200多件那還有其他我們幾乎每年的活動都非常非常的多造成我們人權委員會的同仁非常的辛苦非常的累那現在也招不到人所以這個部分是我們一直在積極做的我們也希望人員能夠增加然後讓我們發揮更大的功能\n304989\t319523\t本席一直認為說在監察院裡面人權委員會如果是整個按照整個組織反映它的功能去可以再去是進一步去發揮它的一個功能的話去可以更落實對整個人權實質上的一個保障為什麼這樣講呢\n321665\t343280\t比如說在2000年期間2020年期間我就覺得非常可惜了2020年疫情期間那個時候疫情期間很多國家發布了有影響到人權的緊急命令比如說鎖國封城遷徙的自由檢疫隔離限制旅行自由這些等等還甚至很多學校也去關閉了影響到學生的一個受教權\n344221\t361033\t在國際上其實在比如說聯合國的國際人權委員會或者是經濟社會文化權利委員會或者說兒童權利委員會幾個單位裡面他們是立即的去發布了幾個緊急的一個指引\n361934\t383888\t他們發布了指引要求各國你在限制老百姓正當的權利的時候你要去明定確保國家一方面要求人民在居家隔離限制一定範圍的一個活動的時候你讓傳染病可以去得到一二指另一方面又不會去過度侵犯到人民的基本權\n385592\t386393\t我相信秘書長一定特別有感\n412580\t426434\t這個確實就不夠了你跟國際上來做比較的話我們這個部分我們人權委員會是不是你發揮的積極的然後去做一個引導作用更主動的\n427549\t456112\t相較國際上這些人權組織來看的話我不曉得民主黨你的看法我非常認同莊委員的看法但是我必須說明一下就是2020年8月我們才正式成立在兵荒馬亂然後又碰到疫情那幸虧就是我們的所謂衛福部提的防疫措施並沒有太大幅度的影響到我們的人權這個也是台灣的防疫措施被世界各國所肯定的一個原因\n456732\t457092\t本期一直很在意的就是說\n485473\t490238\t2020年當然是人權委剛好剛成立那當然是說你說人權這個人手或者說經驗或者說我們整個成立之初剛好又碰到疫情那你很難去跟國際上這樣子運作長久的這些機構來做一個比較可是我就覺得最主要是那個觀念的問題了\n506716\t509318\t監察院本來就一直強調事後的監督一直強調事後的一個監督他沒有去意識到你整個國家人權委員會其實你可以發揮更積極的一個作用人權就不是事後人權要主動積極完全同意\n526429\t540420\t如果人權委員會一直強調在事後的一個監督的話而不是在第一時間去接軌其他國家的重要的聲明你說在防疫期間過度限縮人民基本權利的積極作為這個當初是真的有點可惜啦真的有點可惜啦所以因為我\n541681\t567292\t我也非常清楚民主黨已經非常有一番當一個監察院的幕僚長可是這方面其實應該在人權委員會的部分不管是私底下或者說你們在討論之間真的是要形成這一些委員他自己本身要有一個積極面要有一個共識存在否則這真的太可惜了你說監察院說廢掉好不好廢掉很好啊\n567932\t594237\t可是人權委員會這個部分這個我反而會覺得如果說你積極去做一個精進的話會變成監察院未來存廢之外走出的另外一條康莊大道我覺得這個對人權的一個保障對整個國家來看的話長遠的發展來看的話是非常積極又正面不管監察院存不存在人權委員會應該要存在而且應該是一個獨立機關\n595757\t613492\t但是現在組織法裡面還不是一個完全獨立機關所以我們還會在我們的範圍內繼續的來進進我們的人權委員也非常非常的積極我倒覺得說這個部分今天特別提出來來做跟民主黨做這樣的一個請教謝謝莊委員的建議\n614693\t615053\t拜託中委員多支持\n","txt":"李俊逸秘書長\n委員長好其實我一直在想委員長應該你也很清楚這一次的一個預算司法法制委員會裡面就一定是你們家最慘的嘛還有跟司法院一定是最慘的嘛這下就再說大家都哭到旁邊去到後面也是誰一直在打你嘴巴給你留尊敬都假的你知道嗎告訴你一直在打你迷迷茫茫的其實整個監察院未來要何去何從\n我們都知道很清楚要怎麼處理我們都提過案但是我們都是覺得說如果是一個根本之道其實要透過修憲的一個方式讓老百姓來真正來做一個決定的一個方式那你現在就是存在了它現在存在光去砍預算現在民眾黨他們是認為說監察院是一個廢物院\n我們以前是不說我這麼難聽,以前說他盲腸,我可以說他回歸到像三權分立的國家這樣子可是啦,以現在機關在存在的話,那預算如果像是民眾黨講的說,要不然剩一塊給你們就好,你猜你們監察院的員工會怎麼樣的反應\n而這個部分會造成監察院所有相關的職權沒有辦法行使那這個民主黨我的看法就跟你不一樣我如果是你監察院的員工我第一個想法就是耶!\n痛死!\n這事都不能做啊今年24明年25二五沒有碰到選舉年啊那26你就真的是很麻煩啊\n你整個政治獻金法第4條的一個規定就是受理政治獻金的一個申報本來就是你們的職責嘛那如果說到最後這個2022到20這是預測啦2025如果都一樣都延續這樣的一個方式的話那你認為會不會出很大的一個問題啊\n一定會啊 一定會啊 如果傷我們的預算造成我們沒法實際運作那當然會影響我們的權責 這個可能還涉及違憲的問題是 會涉及到違憲的問題喔大法官4-612就有講阿如果存一項阿你們有 沒辦法做慷慨阿沒辦法做慷慨 大家痛到 其實大家立法院都覺得是在修理監察院 我覺得不是 這個就是在讓監察院變得很爽的一個單位\n﹚審查\n他去專責保護兒童人權以便在兒童人權公約通過以後可以有效保障兒童人權波蘭跟匈牙利他允許監察機關將調查獲得具體的建議直接去移送到法院裡面去那臺灣我們在2000年各界呼籲設立國家人權委員會當初是說到底要設在總統府啊行政院啊或者監察院啊不一樣的意見2020年以後通過監察院國家人權委員會的一個組織法\n本席想就教的就是說以目前監察院的人權委員會是不是應該有更重要的貢獻來讓民眾來瞭解目前業務的一個狀況因為本席一直認為說人權委員會\n與其是監察院現在被杯格說什麼廢物院什麼講的都這麼難聽可是畢竟還沒有修憲之前反而是在整個人權委員會方面他應該可以有積極的貢獻我不曉得這部分秘書長你的看法怎麼樣\n我這個部分確實如此我們也正努力在這樣做人權委員會成立到現在其實我們做過的事情相當多特別大家對人權委員會有很多的期待那我們的組織法第二條裡面規定了九項職權幾乎包山包海所有的人權都人權委員會要負責推動\n這個部分所以我們到現在為止人權委員會有5個國家報告的獨立評估意見然後有10個專案的報告然後另外我們的案件有200多件那還有其他我們幾乎每年的活動都非常非常的多造成我們人權委員會的同仁非常的辛苦非常的累那現在也招不到人所以這個部分是我們一直在積極做的我們也希望人員能夠增加然後讓我們發揮更大的功能\n本席一直認為說在監察院裡面人權委員會如果是整個按照整個組織反映它的功能去可以再去是進一步去發揮它的一個功能的話去可以更落實對整個人權實質上的一個保障為什麼這樣講呢\n比如說在2000年期間2020年期間我就覺得非常可惜了2020年疫情期間那個時候疫情期間很多國家發布了有影響到人權的緊急命令比如說鎖國封城遷徙的自由檢疫隔離限制旅行自由這些等等還甚至很多學校也去關閉了影響到學生的一個受教權\n在國際上其實在比如說聯合國的國際人權委員會或者是經濟社會文化權利委員會或者說兒童權利委員會幾個單位裡面他們是立即的去發布了幾個緊急的一個指引\n他們發布了指引要求各國你在限制老百姓正當的權利的時候你要去明定確保國家一方面要求人民在居家隔離限制一定範圍的一個活動的時候你讓傳染病可以去得到一二指另一方面又不會去過度侵犯到人民的基本權\n我相信秘書長一定特別有感\n這個確實就不夠了你跟國際上來做比較的話我們這個部分我們人權委員會是不是你發揮的積極的然後去做一個引導作用更主動的\n相較國際上這些人權組織來看的話我不曉得民主黨你的看法我非常認同莊委員的看法但是我必須說明一下就是2020年8月我們才正式成立在兵荒馬亂然後又碰到疫情那幸虧就是我們的所謂衛福部提的防疫措施並沒有太大幅度的影響到我們的人權這個也是台灣的防疫措施被世界各國所肯定的一個原因\n本期一直很在意的就是說\n2020年當然是人權委剛好剛成立那當然是說你說人權這個人手或者說經驗或者說我們整個成立之初剛好又碰到疫情那你很難去跟國際上這樣子運作長久的這些機構來做一個比較可是我就覺得最主要是那個觀念的問題了\n監察院本來就一直強調事後的監督一直強調事後的一個監督他沒有去意識到你整個國家人權委員會其實你可以發揮更積極的一個作用人權就不是事後人權要主動積極完全同意\n如果人權委員會一直強調在事後的一個監督的話而不是在第一時間去接軌其他國家的重要的聲明你說在防疫期間過度限縮人民基本權利的積極作為這個當初是真的有點可惜啦真的有點可惜啦所以因為我\n我也非常清楚民主黨已經非常有一番當一個監察院的幕僚長可是這方面其實應該在人權委員會的部分不管是私底下或者說你們在討論之間真的是要形成這一些委員他自己本身要有一個積極面要有一個共識存在否則這真的太可惜了你說監察院說廢掉好不好廢掉很好啊\n可是人權委員會這個部分這個我反而會覺得如果說你積極去做一個精進的話會變成監察院未來存廢之外走出的另外一條康莊大道我覺得這個對人權的一個保障對整個國家來看的話長遠的發展來看的話是非常積極又正面不管監察院存不存在人權委員會應該要存在而且應該是一個獨立機關\n但是現在組織法裡面還不是一個完全獨立機關所以我們還會在我們的範圍內繼續的來進進我們的人權委員也非常非常的積極我倒覺得說這個部分今天特別提出來來做跟民主黨做這樣的一個請教謝謝莊委員的建議\n拜託中委員多支持\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.931 --> 00:01.391\n李俊逸秘書長\n\n00:10.016 --> 00:36.745\n委員長好其實我一直在想委員長應該你也很清楚這一次的一個預算司法法制委員會裡面就一定是你們家最慘的嘛還有跟司法院一定是最慘的嘛這下就再說大家都哭到旁邊去到後面也是誰一直在打你嘴巴給你留尊敬都假的你知道嗎告訴你一直在打你迷迷茫茫的其實整個監察院未來要何去何從\n\n00:39.182 --> 01:02.561\n我們都知道很清楚要怎麼處理我們都提過案但是我們都是覺得說如果是一個根本之道其實要透過修憲的一個方式讓老百姓來真正來做一個決定的一個方式那你現在就是存在了它現在存在光去砍預算現在民眾黨他們是認為說監察院是一個廢物院\n\n01:05.963 --> 01:24.116\n我們以前是不說我這麼難聽,以前說他盲腸,我可以說他回歸到像三權分立的國家這樣子可是啦,以現在機關在存在的話,那預算如果像是民眾黨講的說,要不然剩一塊給你們就好,你猜你們監察院的員工會怎麼樣的反應\n\n01:27.810 --> 01:37.896\n而這個部分會造成監察院所有相關的職權沒有辦法行使那這個民主黨我的看法就跟你不一樣我如果是你監察院的員工我第一個想法就是耶!\n\n01:37.896 --> 01:37.936\n痛死!\n\n01:37.936 --> 01:40.918\n這事都不能做啊今年24明年25二五沒有碰到選舉年啊那26你就真的是很麻煩啊\n\n01:48.502 --> 02:02.691\n你整個政治獻金法第4條的一個規定就是受理政治獻金的一個申報本來就是你們的職責嘛那如果說到最後這個2022到20這是預測啦2025如果都一樣都延續這樣的一個方式的話那你認為會不會出很大的一個問題啊\n\n02:12.148 --> 02:38.687\n一定會啊一定會啊如果傷我們的預算造成我們沒法實際運作那當然會影響我們的權責這個可能還涉及違憲的問題是會涉及到違憲的問題喔大法官4-612就有講阿如果存一項阿你們有沒辦法做慷慨阿沒辦法做慷慨大家痛到其實大家立法院都覺得是在修理監察院我覺得不是這個就是在讓監察院變得很爽的一個單位\n\n02:40.987 --> 02:41.007\n﹚審查\n\n03:11.187 --> 03:39.401\n他去專責保護兒童人權以便在兒童人權公約通過以後可以有效保障兒童人權波蘭跟匈牙利他允許監察機關將調查獲得具體的建議直接去移送到法院裡面去那臺灣我們在2000年各界呼籲設立國家人權委員會當初是說到底要設在總統府啊行政院啊或者監察院啊不一樣的意見2020年以後通過監察院國家人權委員會的一個組織法\n\n03:40.641 --> 03:57.114\n本席想就教的就是說以目前監察院的人權委員會是不是應該有更重要的貢獻來讓民眾來瞭解目前業務的一個狀況因為本席一直認為說人權委員會\n\n04:01.432 --> 04:17.977\n與其是監察院現在被杯格說什麼廢物院什麼講的都這麼難聽可是畢竟還沒有修憲之前反而是在整個人權委員會方面他應該可以有積極的貢獻我不曉得這部分秘書長你的看法怎麼樣\n\n04:18.477 --> 04:35.157\n我這個部分確實如此我們也正努力在這樣做人權委員會成立到現在其實我們做過的事情相當多特別大家對人權委員會有很多的期待那我們的組織法第二條裡面規定了九項職權幾乎包山包海所有的人權都人權委員會要負責推動\n\n04:37.579 --> 05:04.369\n這個部分所以我們到現在為止人權委員會有5個國家報告的獨立評估意見然後有10個專案的報告然後另外我們的案件有200多件那還有其他我們幾乎每年的活動都非常非常的多造成我們人權委員會的同仁非常的辛苦非常的累那現在也招不到人所以這個部分是我們一直在積極做的我們也希望人員能夠增加然後讓我們發揮更大的功能\n\n05:04.989 --> 05:19.523\n本席一直認為說在監察院裡面人權委員會如果是整個按照整個組織反映它的功能去可以再去是進一步去發揮它的一個功能的話去可以更落實對整個人權實質上的一個保障為什麼這樣講呢\n\n05:21.665 --> 05:43.280\n比如說在2000年期間2020年期間我就覺得非常可惜了2020年疫情期間那個時候疫情期間很多國家發布了有影響到人權的緊急命令比如說鎖國封城遷徙的自由檢疫隔離限制旅行自由這些等等還甚至很多學校也去關閉了影響到學生的一個受教權\n\n05:44.221 --> 06:01.033\n在國際上其實在比如說聯合國的國際人權委員會或者是經濟社會文化權利委員會或者說兒童權利委員會幾個單位裡面他們是立即的去發布了幾個緊急的一個指引\n\n06:01.934 --> 06:23.888\n他們發布了指引要求各國你在限制老百姓正當的權利的時候你要去明定確保國家一方面要求人民在居家隔離限制一定範圍的一個活動的時候你讓傳染病可以去得到一二指另一方面又不會去過度侵犯到人民的基本權\n\n06:25.592 --> 06:26.393\n我相信秘書長一定特別有感\n\n06:52.580 --> 07:06.434\n這個確實就不夠了你跟國際上來做比較的話我們這個部分我們人權委員會是不是你發揮的積極的然後去做一個引導作用更主動的\n\n07:07.549 --> 07:36.112\n相較國際上這些人權組織來看的話我不曉得民主黨你的看法我非常認同莊委員的看法但是我必須說明一下就是2020年8月我們才正式成立在兵荒馬亂然後又碰到疫情那幸虧就是我們的所謂衛福部提的防疫措施並沒有太大幅度的影響到我們的人權這個也是台灣的防疫措施被世界各國所肯定的一個原因\n\n07:36.732 --> 07:37.092\n本期一直很在意的就是說\n\n08:05.473 --> 08:10.238\n2020年當然是人權委剛好剛成立那當然是說你說人權這個人手或者說經驗或者說我們整個成立之初剛好又碰到疫情那你很難去跟國際上這樣子運作長久的這些機構來做一個比較可是我就覺得最主要是那個觀念的問題了\n\n08:26.716 --> 08:29.318\n監察院本來就一直強調事後的監督一直強調事後的一個監督他沒有去意識到你整個國家人權委員會其實你可以發揮更積極的一個作用人權就不是事後人權要主動積極完全同意\n\n08:46.429 --> 09:00.420\n如果人權委員會一直強調在事後的一個監督的話而不是在第一時間去接軌其他國家的重要的聲明你說在防疫期間過度限縮人民基本權利的積極作為這個當初是真的有點可惜啦真的有點可惜啦所以因為我\n\n09:01.681 --> 09:27.292\n我也非常清楚民主黨已經非常有一番當一個監察院的幕僚長可是這方面其實應該在人權委員會的部分不管是私底下或者說你們在討論之間真的是要形成這一些委員他自己本身要有一個積極面要有一個共識存在否則這真的太可惜了你說監察院說廢掉好不好廢掉很好啊\n\n09:27.932 --> 09:54.237\n可是人權委員會這個部分這個我反而會覺得如果說你積極去做一個精進的話會變成監察院未來存廢之外走出的另外一條康莊大道我覺得這個對人權的一個保障對整個國家來看的話長遠的發展來看的話是非常積極又正面不管監察院存不存在人權委員會應該要存在而且應該是一個獨立機關\n\n09:55.757 --> 10:13.492\n但是現在組織法裡面還不是一個完全獨立機關所以我們還會在我們的範圍內繼續的來進進我們的人權委員也非常非常的積極我倒覺得說這個部分今天特別提出來來做跟民主黨做這樣的一個請教謝謝莊委員的建議\n\n10:14.693 --> 10:15.053\n拜託中委員多支持\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.931,"end":1.391,"text":"李俊逸秘書長"},{"start":10.016,"end":36.745,"text":"委員長好其實我一直在想委員長應該你也很清楚這一次的一個預算司法法制委員會裡面就一定是你們家最慘的嘛還有跟司法院一定是最慘的嘛這下就再說大家都哭到旁邊去到後面也是誰一直在打你嘴巴給你留尊敬都假的你知道嗎告訴你一直在打你迷迷茫茫的其實整個監察院未來要何去何從"},{"start":39.182,"end":62.561,"text":"我們都知道很清楚要怎麼處理我們都提過案但是我們都是覺得說如果是一個根本之道其實要透過修憲的一個方式讓老百姓來真正來做一個決定的一個方式那你現在就是存在了它現在存在光去砍預算現在民眾黨他們是認為說監察院是一個廢物院"},{"start":65.963,"end":84.116,"text":"我們以前是不說我這麼難聽,以前說他盲腸,我可以說他回歸到像三權分立的國家這樣子可是啦,以現在機關在存在的話,那預算如果像是民眾黨講的說,要不然剩一塊給你們就好,你猜你們監察院的員工會怎麼樣的反應"},{"start":87.81,"end":97.896,"text":"而這個部分會造成監察院所有相關的職權沒有辦法行使那這個民主黨我的看法就跟你不一樣我如果是你監察院的員工我第一個想法就是耶!"},{"start":97.896,"end":97.936,"text":"痛死!"},{"start":97.936,"end":100.918,"text":"這事都不能做啊今年24明年25二五沒有碰到選舉年啊那26你就真的是很麻煩啊"},{"start":108.502,"end":122.691,"text":"你整個政治獻金法第4條的一個規定就是受理政治獻金的一個申報本來就是你們的職責嘛那如果說到最後這個2022到20這是預測啦2025如果都一樣都延續這樣的一個方式的話那你認為會不會出很大的一個問題啊"},{"start":132.148,"end":158.687,"text":"一定會啊 一定會啊 如果傷我們的預算造成我們沒法實際運作那當然會影響我們的權責 這個可能還涉及違憲的問題是 會涉及到違憲的問題喔大法官4-612就有講阿如果存一項阿你們有 沒辦法做慷慨阿沒辦法做慷慨 大家痛到 其實大家立法院都覺得是在修理監察院 我覺得不是 這個就是在讓監察院變得很爽的一個單位"},{"start":160.987,"end":161.007,"text":"﹚審查"},{"start":191.187,"end":219.401,"text":"他去專責保護兒童人權以便在兒童人權公約通過以後可以有效保障兒童人權波蘭跟匈牙利他允許監察機關將調查獲得具體的建議直接去移送到法院裡面去那臺灣我們在2000年各界呼籲設立國家人權委員會當初是說到底要設在總統府啊行政院啊或者監察院啊不一樣的意見2020年以後通過監察院國家人權委員會的一個組織法"},{"start":220.641,"end":237.114,"text":"本席想就教的就是說以目前監察院的人權委員會是不是應該有更重要的貢獻來讓民眾來瞭解目前業務的一個狀況因為本席一直認為說人權委員會"},{"start":241.432,"end":257.977,"text":"與其是監察院現在被杯格說什麼廢物院什麼講的都這麼難聽可是畢竟還沒有修憲之前反而是在整個人權委員會方面他應該可以有積極的貢獻我不曉得這部分秘書長你的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":258.477,"end":275.157,"text":"我這個部分確實如此我們也正努力在這樣做人權委員會成立到現在其實我們做過的事情相當多特別大家對人權委員會有很多的期待那我們的組織法第二條裡面規定了九項職權幾乎包山包海所有的人權都人權委員會要負責推動"},{"start":277.579,"end":304.369,"text":"這個部分所以我們到現在為止人權委員會有5個國家報告的獨立評估意見然後有10個專案的報告然後另外我們的案件有200多件那還有其他我們幾乎每年的活動都非常非常的多造成我們人權委員會的同仁非常的辛苦非常的累那現在也招不到人所以這個部分是我們一直在積極做的我們也希望人員能夠增加然後讓我們發揮更大的功能"},{"start":304.989,"end":319.523,"text":"本席一直認為說在監察院裡面人權委員會如果是整個按照整個組織反映它的功能去可以再去是進一步去發揮它的一個功能的話去可以更落實對整個人權實質上的一個保障為什麼這樣講呢"},{"start":321.665,"end":343.28,"text":"比如說在2000年期間2020年期間我就覺得非常可惜了2020年疫情期間那個時候疫情期間很多國家發布了有影響到人權的緊急命令比如說鎖國封城遷徙的自由檢疫隔離限制旅行自由這些等等還甚至很多學校也去關閉了影響到學生的一個受教權"},{"start":344.221,"end":361.033,"text":"在國際上其實在比如說聯合國的國際人權委員會或者是經濟社會文化權利委員會或者說兒童權利委員會幾個單位裡面他們是立即的去發布了幾個緊急的一個指引"},{"start":361.934,"end":383.888,"text":"他們發布了指引要求各國你在限制老百姓正當的權利的時候你要去明定確保國家一方面要求人民在居家隔離限制一定範圍的一個活動的時候你讓傳染病可以去得到一二指另一方面又不會去過度侵犯到人民的基本權"},{"start":385.592,"end":386.393,"text":"我相信秘書長一定特別有感"},{"start":412.58,"end":426.434,"text":"這個確實就不夠了你跟國際上來做比較的話我們這個部分我們人權委員會是不是你發揮的積極的然後去做一個引導作用更主動的"},{"start":427.549,"end":456.112,"text":"相較國際上這些人權組織來看的話我不曉得民主黨你的看法我非常認同莊委員的看法但是我必須說明一下就是2020年8月我們才正式成立在兵荒馬亂然後又碰到疫情那幸虧就是我們的所謂衛福部提的防疫措施並沒有太大幅度的影響到我們的人權這個也是台灣的防疫措施被世界各國所肯定的一個原因"},{"start":456.732,"end":457.092,"text":"本期一直很在意的就是說"},{"start":485.473,"end":490.238,"text":"2020年當然是人權委剛好剛成立那當然是說你說人權這個人手或者說經驗或者說我們整個成立之初剛好又碰到疫情那你很難去跟國際上這樣子運作長久的這些機構來做一個比較可是我就覺得最主要是那個觀念的問題了"},{"start":506.716,"end":509.318,"text":"監察院本來就一直強調事後的監督一直強調事後的一個監督他沒有去意識到你整個國家人權委員會其實你可以發揮更積極的一個作用人權就不是事後人權要主動積極完全同意"},{"start":526.429,"end":540.42,"text":"如果人權委員會一直強調在事後的一個監督的話而不是在第一時間去接軌其他國家的重要的聲明你說在防疫期間過度限縮人民基本權利的積極作為這個當初是真的有點可惜啦真的有點可惜啦所以因為我"},{"start":541.681,"end":567.292,"text":"我也非常清楚民主黨已經非常有一番當一個監察院的幕僚長可是這方面其實應該在人權委員會的部分不管是私底下或者說你們在討論之間真的是要形成這一些委員他自己本身要有一個積極面要有一個共識存在否則這真的太可惜了你說監察院說廢掉好不好廢掉很好啊"},{"start":567.932,"end":594.237,"text":"可是人權委員會這個部分這個我反而會覺得如果說你積極去做一個精進的話會變成監察院未來存廢之外走出的另外一條康莊大道我覺得這個對人權的一個保障對整個國家來看的話長遠的發展來看的話是非常積極又正面不管監察院存不存在人權委員會應該要存在而且應該是一個獨立機關"},{"start":595.757,"end":613.492,"text":"但是現在組織法裡面還不是一個完全獨立機關所以我們還會在我們的範圍內繼續的來進進我們的人權委員也非常非常的積極我倒覺得說這個部分今天特別提出來來做跟民主黨做這樣的一個請教謝謝莊委員的建議"},{"start":614.693,"end":615.053,"text":"拜託中委員多支持"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":548,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時8分）謝謝召委，有請我們監察院李俊俋秘書長。"],["李秘書長俊俋：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：秘書長好。其實我一直在想，秘書長你應該也很清楚，這次的預算，司法及法制委員會裡面就一定是你們家最慘的嘛，還有司法院一定是最慘的嘛，這還用說？大家都會扯到旁邊去，到最後還是會一直砍，嘴巴跟你說如何尊敬，都是假的，你知不知道？到時候一定會把你砍得「糜糜卯卯」。","整個監察院未來要何去何從，我們第8屆就當同事了，這個我們都很清楚知道要怎麼處理。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我們第8屆就提過案了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啊！也都提過案，但我們就是覺得，如果是一個根本之道，其實要透過修憲的方式，讓老百姓真正來做一個決定的方式。它現在就是存在，光去砍預算，現在民眾黨那邊是認為監察院是一個廢物院，我們以前真的沒說得這麼難聽，我們以前說它是盲腸，看它可不可以回歸到像三權分立的國家這樣子，可是現在機關存在的話，那預算如果像民眾黨講的，不然就剩1塊給你們就好，你猜你們監察院的員工會怎麼樣的反應？"],["李秘書長俊俋：這個部分會造成監察院所有相關的職權沒有辦法行使，這個……"],["莊委員瑞雄：秘書長，我的看法就跟你不一樣。我如果是監察院的員工，我第一個想法就是耶！高興死了，事情都不用做了。今年是2024，明年是2025，2025沒有碰到選舉年，2026你就真的是很麻煩了，整個政治獻金法第四條的規定，就是受理政治獻金的申報本來就是你們的職責，如果說到最後，到202……這是預測啦！2025如果一樣都延續這樣的方式的話，那你認為會不會出很大的問題？"],["李秘書長俊俋：一定會啊！"],["莊委員瑞雄：照理說他們要向你們申報。"],["李秘書長俊俋：如果刪我們的預算，造成我們沒有辦法實際運作，那當然會影響我們的權責，這個可能還涉及違憲的問題。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，會涉及到違憲的問題。"],["李秘書長俊俋：大法官釋字第632號就有講。"],["莊委員瑞雄：如果預算剩1塊，你們……"],["李秘書長俊俋：我們沒辦法工作啊！"],["莊委員瑞雄：沒辦法工作，大家可能就會很高興，其實立法院都覺得是在修理監察院，我覺得不是，這個就是要讓監察院變成一個很爽的單位，轉換個心情也是變成這樣，可是這對嗎？這就不對啊！監察院就越來越離譜了。但是本席比較關心的是，除了所謂的存廢還有這次的預算以外，不管如何，本席還是從幾個面向來看，監察院應該可以去發揮更積極的功能，譬如說，很多歐洲國家現在有納入了監察使的概念，像挪威設立了兒童人權的監察使，他去專責保護兒童人權，以便在兒童人權公約通過以後可以有效保障兒童的人權；波蘭跟匈牙利允許監察機關將調查後的具體建議直接移送到法院裡面去。","我們臺灣在2000年，各界呼籲設立國家人權委員會，當初是說到底要設在總統府？行政院？或者是監察院？有不同的意見，2020年以後通過監察院國家人權委員會組織法，本席想就教的是，目前監察院的人權委員會是不是應該有更重要的貢獻來讓民眾了解目前業務的狀況？因為本席一直認為人權委員會，與其是監察院現在被杯葛說是廢物院什麼的，講得都很難聽，可是畢竟還沒有修憲之前，反而是在整個人權委員會方面，它應該可以有積極的貢獻，不曉得這部分秘書長的看法怎麼樣？"],["李秘書長俊俋：這個部分確實如此，我們也正努力在這樣做，人權委員會成立到現在，其實我們做過的事情相當多，特別大家對人權委員會有很多的期待，我們的組織法第二條裡面規定的9項職權，幾乎包山包海，所有的人權人權委員會都要負責推動，所以我們到現在為止，人權委員會有5個國家報告的獨立評估意見，然後有10個專案的報告，另外，我們的案件有兩百多件，還有其他的，我們幾乎每年活動都非常非常的多，造成我們人權委員會的同仁非常的辛苦、非常的累，現在也招不到人，所以這個部分是我們一直在積極做的，我們也希望人員能夠增加，然後讓我們發揮更大的功能。"],["莊委員瑞雄：本席一直認為在監察院裡面，人權委員會如果按照整個組織法，可以再進一步去發揮它的功能的話，可以更落實對整個人權實質上的保障，為什麼這樣講？比如說在2020年，我就覺得非常可惜了，2020年疫情期間，很多國家發布了有影響到人權的緊急命令，比如說，鎖國、封城、遷徙的自由、檢疫、隔離、限制旅行自由等等，甚至很多學校關閉了，影響到學生的受教權。國際上比如聯合國的國際人權委員會，或者是經濟、社會及文化權利委員會，或者是兒童權利委員會等幾個單位，他們是立即發布了幾個緊急指引，他們發布指引要求各國在限制老百姓正當權利的時候，要明訂確保國家一方面要求人民居家隔離限制在一定範圍活動的時候，讓傳染病可以得到遏止，另一方面又不會過度侵犯到人民的基本權，別的國家其實是這樣。那我們這個部分，我就覺得比較可惜了，當初在2020年到2021年，反觀我們臺灣人權委員會在新聞稿裡面就強調，等疫情結束以後我們再來全面檢討政府相關防疫作為，以維護人權。就這一點我來看，我相信秘書長一定特別有感，這不夠！這個確實就不夠了！跟國際上比較的話，我會覺得我們的人權委員會是不是應該發揮得更積極，然後去做一個引導作用、更主動的，相較國際上這些人權組織來看的話，我不曉得秘書長你的看法怎麼樣。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我非常認同莊委員的看法，但是我必須說明一下，2020年8月我們才正式成立，兵荒馬亂，又碰到疫情，幸虧衛福部提的防疫措施並沒有太大幅度影響到我們的人權，這也是臺灣的防疫措施被世界各國所肯定的一個原因。當然，未來我們可以扮演更積極的角色，特別在類似這樣的防疫上未來怎麼做，我們今年才完成過去在2003年SARS事件以後相關措施的人權改善方式報告，所以未來也可以提供給在防疫或是天災人禍的時候一些預防及準備的措施。"],["莊委員瑞雄：本席一直很在意的就是，2020年剛好人權委員會剛成立，當然你說人手或者經驗，或者是整個成立之初剛好又碰到疫情，所以很難跟國際上運作長久的這些機構做個比較，可是我覺得最主要是那個觀念的問題，監察院本來就一直強調事後的監督，一直強調事後的監督，它沒有意識到整個國家人權委員會其實可以發揮更積極的一個作用。"],["李秘書長俊俋：人權就不是事後了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是！"],["李秘書長俊俋：人權要主動積極。"],["莊委員瑞雄：人權就真的不是事後了！"],["李秘書長俊俋：我完全同意。"],["莊委員瑞雄：如果人權委員會一直強調在事後監督的話，而不是在第一時間去接軌其他國家重要的聲明，你說在防疫期間過度限縮人民基本權利的積極作為，這個當初是真的有點可惜了！真的有點可惜了！因為我也非常清楚，秘書長身為一個監察院的幕僚長，可是這方面應該在人權委員會的部分，不管是私底下或者你們在討論之間，真的是要形成這些委員自己本身要有一個積極面、要有一個共識存在，否則這真的太可惜了。你說監察院廢掉好不好，廢掉很好啊！可是人權委員會這個部分，我反而會覺得如果積極去精進的話，會變成監察院未來存廢之外走出的另外一條康莊大道，我覺得這個對人權的保障、對整個國家長遠的發展來看的話，是非常積極又正面的，不曉得秘書長的看法怎麼樣？"],["李秘書長俊俋：不管監察院存不存在，人權委員會應該要存在。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是。"],["李秘書長俊俋：而且應該是一個獨立機關，但是現在組織法裡面還不是一個完全獨立機關，所以我們還會在我們的範圍內繼續精進，我們的人權委員也非常非常積極。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我倒覺得這個部分在今天特別提出跟秘書長做這樣的請教。"],["李秘書長俊俋：謝謝莊委員的建議，這個我完全同意，我們會更積極一點。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，這個部分就不涉及到立法院對監察院、對你們過去是不是有涉及到整個國會機關權責之間的重疊問題，人權的部分本來就是人權委員會必須要主動、積極，而且去發揮它的功能，好不好？"],["李秘書長俊俋：所以人權委員會的預算也拜託莊委員多支持。"],["莊委員瑞雄：很合理啊！我就是要跟你說這個，全力支持你，謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請吳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":230,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-14","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","沈發惠","羅智強","鍾佳濱","翁曉玲","謝龍介","林思銘","傅崐萁"],"page_start":171,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310201_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於監察院主管（不含審計部及所屬）收支部分（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310201_00011"}}}