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{\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 230.406, \"end\": 230.586, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 230.586, \"end\": 231.827, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"酌\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 231.827, \"end\": 232.268, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 232.268, \"end\": 232.388, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 232.388, \"end\": 232.608, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 232.608, \"end\": 232.768, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 232.768, \"end\": 232.928, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"竟\", \"start\": 232.928, \"end\": 232.948, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 232.948, \"end\": 232.968, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}]}, {\"start\": 233.789, \"end\": 233.949, \"text\": \"主席\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 233.789, \"end\": 233.929, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 233.929, \"end\": 233.949, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 257.767, \"end\": 281.565, \"text\": \"因為這就要檢討了因為當初如果核定但是中央實在是也沒有經費相關的財源當初的核定是按照說這個目前財務法的這個規模來做核定嘛那現在財務法已經沒有這麼多統售分配款可以運用啦我們實在1000多億啦那怎麼可能還按照本來中央核定的這個比例再去撥給地方呢中央的錢哪裡來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 257.767, \"end\": 258.008, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 258.008, \"end\": 258.148, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 258.148, \"end\": 258.828, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 258.828, \"end\": 258.988, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 258.988, \"end\": 259.649, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 259.649, \"end\": 259.869, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 259.869, \"end\": 260.009, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 260.009, \"end\": 260.169, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 260.169, \"end\": 260.389, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": 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278.363, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 278.363, \"end\": 279.123, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 279.123, \"end\": 279.304, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 279.304, \"end\": 279.764, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 279.764, \"end\": 279.884, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 279.884, \"end\": 280.224, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"撥\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 280.224, \"end\": 280.384, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 280.384, \"end\": 280.545, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 280.545, \"end\": 281.105, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 281.105, \"end\": 281.305, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 281.305, \"end\": 281.405, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 281.405, \"end\": 281.545, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 281.545, \"end\": 281.565, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 282.626, \"end\": 299.008, \"text\": \"因為現在如果說這個是前瞻計畫將來要回歸計畫型一個補助各部會的計畫型補助但是如果說我們優先要刪減大概也是計畫型的一個補助因為這是對各縣市的一個相關的一個補助的一個配套的一個計畫\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 282.626, \"end\": 283.107, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 283.107, \"end\": 283.267, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 283.267, \"end\": 283.407, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 283.407, \"end\": 284.128, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 284.128, \"end\": 284.288, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 284.288, \"end\": 285.089, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"瞻\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 285.089, \"end\": 285.55, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 285.55, \"end\": 286.451, 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\"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 294.442, \"end\": 294.622, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 294.622, \"end\": 295.283, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 295.283, \"end\": 295.764, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 295.764, \"end\": 296.204, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 296.204, \"end\": 296.364, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 296.364, \"end\": 296.485, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 296.485, \"end\": 296.765, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 296.765, \"end\": 297.145, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 297.145, \"end\": 297.266, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 297.266, \"end\": 297.946, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 297.946, \"end\": 298.127, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": 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00:00:07,333\n主席又不是AI機器人不能講話我尊重你請發言謝謝尊重我就不要來拔我的麥克風我沒有\n\n2\n00:00:28,922 --> 00:00:35,245\n我沒有評論我發表的意見請哪一位部長我請這個主計長還有請這個交通部的次長陳主計長林次長\n\n3\n00:00:46,873 --> 00:00:59,881\n這個延續吳秉瑞委員的話題就是說我們這次在討論前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期這第5期是最後一期了嗎?是最後一期了那最後一期我們編了700多億\n\n4\n00:01:02,863 --> 00:01:27,592\n那接下來之後因為前瞻預算很多都是做地方的我先講軌道好了啦很多這個地方的軌道建設包含新北市的很多的輕軌捷運都是由中央來做這個補助的嘛那我請問一下那如果說這一個前瞻預算這個第5期是最後一期然後呢接下來那如果這個國民黨版的這個財劃法通過挖了6612億之後那到了115年之後\n\n5\n00:01:31,073 --> 00:01:56,629\n新北市的所有的軌道、輕軌、所有的這些建設,前要由誰來出?因為這個部分呢,因為當初在核電的計畫的時候有分配就是說中央補助多少、地方負擔多少那這個部分將來如果財務法通過之後中央本身自己就沒有能力來做補助這個部分可能都要回歸地方,由地方來做負擔\n\n6\n00:01:57,589 --> 00:02:12,078\n我舉個例子,這個115年度之後,中央有負擔的這個軌道建設有11件,那總金額是2175億,然後中央跟地方各有負擔,中央是1297,然後地方是877,然後115年之後,那邊的預算數中央負擔還有833億,\n\n7\n00:02:19,463 --> 00:02:43,181\n然後呢這個前瞻預算結束之後呢改由交通部公務預算喔改由交通部公務預算編列的這一個軌道計畫呢115年之後呢有1912億那就要請教一下這一個主席長跟這個次長這未來幾年軌道建設這個大概還有2746億的補助款這個要做\n\n8\n00:02:46,804 --> 00:02:52,432\n如果被國民黨版本財劃法挖了6610億之後接下來這些本來中央要負擔的軌道的建設\n\n9\n00:03:03,683 --> 00:03:30,364\n那要怎麼去做處理?那未來都是要由地方自己出嗎?比如說我新北市現在南北環要做、山陰縣要做、萬大樹林縣要做、淡海的輕軌要做本來都是由中央來做補助的那接下來115年之後沒有前瞻的預算然後如果財務法要通過之後那這些錢中央還有錢補助嗎?那是由地方自己來出嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:33,809 --> 00:03:52,968\n已經合訂的計畫第5期編完沒有預算的就回歸到公務預算您提的那第二個問題是您提的也很重要未來交通部要提列到跟行政院申請的這個中央負擔的部分這部分就要由主席總書來配合總酌來處理看看是否竟會足夠\n\n11\n00:03:53,789 --> 00:03:53,949\n主席\n\n12\n00:04:17,767 --> 00:04:41,565\n因為這就要檢討了因為當初如果核定但是中央實在是也沒有經費相關的財源當初的核定是按照說這個目前財務法的這個規模來做核定嘛那現在財務法已經沒有這麼多統售分配款可以運用啦我們實在1000多億啦那怎麼可能還按照本來中央核定的這個比例再去撥給地方呢中央的錢哪裡來\n\n13\n00:04:42,626 --> 00:04:59,008\n因為現在如果說這個是前瞻計畫將來要回歸計畫型一個補助各部會的計畫型補助但是如果說我們優先要刪減大概也是計畫型的一個補助因為這是對各縣市的一個相關的一個補助的一個配套的一個計畫\n\n14\n00:04:59,989 --> 00:05:23,551\n那所以計畫型補助就沒有辦法了嗎?對,因為我們計畫型補助有2911億裡面這個部分呢那大部分就是說我們要刪減6612億6612億刪減2911億之外還要再刪減3000多億所以這個部分呢等於是說各部會大部分都要刪減以上那有沒有可能這個查法通過之後\n\n15\n00:05:24,492 --> 00:05:47,249\n本來,譬如說新北市,這個可能要算一下本來新北市要出的這個軌道建設的經費本來有中央補助那但是後來因為中央沒辦法補助他自己出了錢,會不會多於他拿到了這一個財務法之後分配給他的這一個分配款其實我們算過啦,如果是計畫型補助,大部分其實比較在\n\n16\n00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:51,182\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函\n\n17\n00:06:07,930 --> 00:06:10,391\n中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案：一、邀請相關部會首長就：一、審查行政院函請審議\n\n18\n00:06:32,213 --> 00:06:53,711\n所以這個部分就是要請交通部再檢討對各縣市補助的一個比率好那最後我花一點時間就是說這個地下停車場的這個問題因為地下停車場現在你們有送計畫給國發會嘛已經有第三次修正了然後這個計畫的期程呢這個從106年9月延長到114年8月經費也從260億增加到320億了那請問一下那這個修正計畫今年會通過嗎\n\n19\n00:07:04,071 --> 00:07:27,325\n各位報告我們已經提了就是停車場的這個計畫的修正那現在在行政院行政院就是說目前還在審查之中我是希望說這個能夠趕快去通過啦因為包含我自己選區這個有五個停車場五華、新谷、開源、六張大同都嗷嗷逮捕啦因為這個新北市政府他就說他錢不夠要跟中央來要\n\n20\n00:07:28,746 --> 00:07:29,287\n主席李坤貞委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n149\t7333\t主席又不是AI機器人不能講話我尊重你請發言謝謝尊重我就不要來拔我的麥克風我沒有\n28922\t35245\t我沒有評論我發表的意見請哪一位部長我請這個主計長還有請這個交通部的次長陳主計長 林次長\n46873\t59881\t這個延續吳秉瑞委員的話題就是說我們這次在討論前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期這第5期是最後一期了嗎?是最後一期了那最後一期我們編了700多億\n62863\t87592\t那接下來之後因為前瞻預算很多都是做地方的我先講軌道好了啦很多這個地方的軌道建設包含新北市的很多的輕軌捷運都是由中央來做這個補助的嘛那我請問一下那如果說這一個前瞻預算這個第5期是最後一期然後呢接下來那如果這個國民黨版的這個財劃法通過挖了6612億之後那到了115年之後\n91073\t116629\t新北市的所有的軌道、輕軌、所有的這些建設,前要由誰來出?因為這個部分呢,因為當初在核電的計畫的時候有分配就是說中央補助多少、地方負擔多少那這個部分將來如果財務法通過之後中央本身自己就沒有能力來做補助這個部分可能都要回歸地方,由地方來做負擔\n117589\t132078\t我舉個例子,這個115年度之後,中央有負擔的這個軌道建設有11件,那總金額是2175億,然後中央跟地方各有負擔,中央是1297,然後地方是877,然後115年之後,那邊的預算數中央負擔還有833億,\n139463\t163181\t然後呢這個前瞻預算結束之後呢改由交通部公務預算喔改由交通部公務預算編列的這一個軌道計畫呢115年之後呢有1912億那就要請教一下這一個主席長跟這個次長這未來幾年軌道建設這個大概還有2746億的補助款這個要做\n166804\t172432\t如果被國民黨版本財劃法挖了6610億之後接下來這些本來中央要負擔的軌道的建設\n183683\t210364\t那要怎麼去做處理?那未來都是要由地方自己出嗎?比如說我新北市現在南北環要做、山陰縣要做、萬大樹林縣要做、淡海的輕軌要做本來都是由中央來做補助的那接下來115年之後沒有前瞻的預算然後如果財務法要通過之後那這些錢中央還有錢補助嗎?那是由地方自己來出嗎?\n213809\t232968\t已經合訂的計畫第5期編完沒有預算的就回歸到公務預算您提的那第二個問題是您提的也很重要未來交通部要提列到跟行政院申請的這個中央負擔的部分這部分就要由主席總書來配合總酌來處理看看是否竟會足夠\n233789\t233949\t主席\n257767\t281565\t因為這就要檢討了因為當初如果核定但是中央實在是也沒有經費相關的財源當初的核定是按照說這個目前財務法的這個規模來做核定嘛那現在財務法已經沒有這麼多統售分配款可以運用啦我們實在1000多億啦那怎麼可能還按照本來中央核定的這個比例再去撥給地方呢中央的錢哪裡來\n282626\t299008\t因為現在如果說這個是前瞻計畫將來要回歸計畫型一個補助各部會的計畫型補助但是如果說我們優先要刪減大概也是計畫型的一個補助因為這是對各縣市的一個相關的一個補助的一個配套的一個計畫\n299989\t323551\t那所以計畫型補助就沒有辦法了嗎?對,因為我們計畫型補助有2911億裡面這個部分呢那大部分就是說我們要刪減6612億6612億刪減2911億之外還要再刪減3000多億所以這個部分呢等於是說各部會大部分都要刪減以上那有沒有可能這個查法通過之後\n324492\t347249\t本來,譬如說新北市,這個可能要算一下本來新北市要出的這個軌道建設的經費本來有中央補助那但是後來因為中央沒辦法補助他自己出了錢,會不會多於他拿到了這一個財務法之後分配給他的這一個分配款其實我們算過啦,如果是計畫型補助,大部分其實比較在\n348260\t351182\t二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函\n367930\t370391\t中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案 ：一、邀請相關部會首長就：一、審查行政院函請審議\n392213\t413711\t所以這個部分就是要請交通部再檢討對各縣市補助的一個比率好那最後我花一點時間就是說這個地下停車場的這個問題因為地下停車場現在你們有送計畫給國發會嘛已經有第三次修正了然後這個計畫的期程呢這個從106年9月延長到114年8月經費也從260億增加到320億了那請問一下那這個修正計畫今年會通過嗎\n424071\t447325\t各位報告我們已經提了就是停車場的這個計畫的修正那現在在行政院行政院就是說目前還在審查之中我是希望說這個能夠趕快去通過啦因為包含我自己選區這個有五個停車場五華、新谷、開源、六張大同都嗷嗷逮捕啦因為這個新北市政府他就說他錢不夠要跟中央來要\n448746\t449287\t主席李坤貞委員\n","txt":"主席又不是AI機器人不能講話我尊重你請發言謝謝尊重我就不要來拔我的麥克風我沒有\n我沒有評論我發表的意見請哪一位部長我請這個主計長還有請這個交通部的次長陳主計長 林次長\n這個延續吳秉瑞委員的話題就是說我們這次在討論前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期這第5期是最後一期了嗎?是最後一期了那最後一期我們編了700多億\n那接下來之後因為前瞻預算很多都是做地方的我先講軌道好了啦很多這個地方的軌道建設包含新北市的很多的輕軌捷運都是由中央來做這個補助的嘛那我請問一下那如果說這一個前瞻預算這個第5期是最後一期然後呢接下來那如果這個國民黨版的這個財劃法通過挖了6612億之後那到了115年之後\n新北市的所有的軌道、輕軌、所有的這些建設,前要由誰來出?因為這個部分呢,因為當初在核電的計畫的時候有分配就是說中央補助多少、地方負擔多少那這個部分將來如果財務法通過之後中央本身自己就沒有能力來做補助這個部分可能都要回歸地方,由地方來做負擔\n我舉個例子,這個115年度之後,中央有負擔的這個軌道建設有11件,那總金額是2175億,然後中央跟地方各有負擔,中央是1297,然後地方是877,然後115年之後,那邊的預算數中央負擔還有833億,\n然後呢這個前瞻預算結束之後呢改由交通部公務預算喔改由交通部公務預算編列的這一個軌道計畫呢115年之後呢有1912億那就要請教一下這一個主席長跟這個次長這未來幾年軌道建設這個大概還有2746億的補助款這個要做\n如果被國民黨版本財劃法挖了6610億之後接下來這些本來中央要負擔的軌道的建設\n那要怎麼去做處理?那未來都是要由地方自己出嗎?比如說我新北市現在南北環要做、山陰縣要做、萬大樹林縣要做、淡海的輕軌要做本來都是由中央來做補助的那接下來115年之後沒有前瞻的預算然後如果財務法要通過之後那這些錢中央還有錢補助嗎?那是由地方自己來出嗎?\n已經合訂的計畫第5期編完沒有預算的就回歸到公務預算您提的那第二個問題是您提的也很重要未來交通部要提列到跟行政院申請的這個中央負擔的部分這部分就要由主席總書來配合總酌來處理看看是否竟會足夠\n主席\n因為這就要檢討了因為當初如果核定但是中央實在是也沒有經費相關的財源當初的核定是按照說這個目前財務法的這個規模來做核定嘛那現在財務法已經沒有這麼多統售分配款可以運用啦我們實在1000多億啦那怎麼可能還按照本來中央核定的這個比例再去撥給地方呢中央的錢哪裡來\n因為現在如果說這個是前瞻計畫將來要回歸計畫型一個補助各部會的計畫型補助但是如果說我們優先要刪減大概也是計畫型的一個補助因為這是對各縣市的一個相關的一個補助的一個配套的一個計畫\n那所以計畫型補助就沒有辦法了嗎?對,因為我們計畫型補助有2911億裡面這個部分呢那大部分就是說我們要刪減6612億6612億刪減2911億之外還要再刪減3000多億所以這個部分呢等於是說各部會大部分都要刪減以上那有沒有可能這個查法通過之後\n本來,譬如說新北市,這個可能要算一下本來新北市要出的這個軌道建設的經費本來有中央補助那但是後來因為中央沒辦法補助他自己出了錢,會不會多於他拿到了這一個財務法之後分配給他的這一個分配款其實我們算過啦,如果是計畫型補助,大部分其實比較在\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函\n中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案 ：一、邀請相關部會首長就：一、審查行政院函請審議\n所以這個部分就是要請交通部再檢討對各縣市補助的一個比率好那最後我花一點時間就是說這個地下停車場的這個問題因為地下停車場現在你們有送計畫給國發會嘛已經有第三次修正了然後這個計畫的期程呢這個從106年9月延長到114年8月經費也從260億增加到320億了那請問一下那這個修正計畫今年會通過嗎\n各位報告我們已經提了就是停車場的這個計畫的修正那現在在行政院行政院就是說目前還在審查之中我是希望說這個能夠趕快去通過啦因為包含我自己選區這個有五個停車場五華、新谷、開源、六張大同都嗷嗷逮捕啦因為這個新北市政府他就說他錢不夠要跟中央來要\n主席李坤貞委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.149 --> 00:07.333\n主席又不是AI機器人不能講話我尊重你請發言謝謝尊重我就不要來拔我的麥克風我沒有\n\n00:28.922 --> 00:35.245\n我沒有評論我發表的意見請哪一位部長我請這個主計長還有請這個交通部的次長陳主計長林次長\n\n00:46.873 --> 00:59.881\n這個延續吳秉瑞委員的話題就是說我們這次在討論前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期這第5期是最後一期了嗎?是最後一期了那最後一期我們編了700多億\n\n01:02.863 --> 01:27.592\n那接下來之後因為前瞻預算很多都是做地方的我先講軌道好了啦很多這個地方的軌道建設包含新北市的很多的輕軌捷運都是由中央來做這個補助的嘛那我請問一下那如果說這一個前瞻預算這個第5期是最後一期然後呢接下來那如果這個國民黨版的這個財劃法通過挖了6612億之後那到了115年之後\n\n01:31.073 --> 01:56.629\n新北市的所有的軌道、輕軌、所有的這些建設,前要由誰來出?因為這個部分呢,因為當初在核電的計畫的時候有分配就是說中央補助多少、地方負擔多少那這個部分將來如果財務法通過之後中央本身自己就沒有能力來做補助這個部分可能都要回歸地方,由地方來做負擔\n\n01:57.589 --> 02:12.078\n我舉個例子,這個115年度之後,中央有負擔的這個軌道建設有11件,那總金額是2175億,然後中央跟地方各有負擔,中央是1297,然後地方是877,然後115年之後,那邊的預算數中央負擔還有833億,\n\n02:19.463 --> 02:43.181\n然後呢這個前瞻預算結束之後呢改由交通部公務預算喔改由交通部公務預算編列的這一個軌道計畫呢115年之後呢有1912億那就要請教一下這一個主席長跟這個次長這未來幾年軌道建設這個大概還有2746億的補助款這個要做\n\n02:46.804 --> 02:52.432\n如果被國民黨版本財劃法挖了6610億之後接下來這些本來中央要負擔的軌道的建設\n\n03:03.683 --> 03:30.364\n那要怎麼去做處理?那未來都是要由地方自己出嗎?比如說我新北市現在南北環要做、山陰縣要做、萬大樹林縣要做、淡海的輕軌要做本來都是由中央來做補助的那接下來115年之後沒有前瞻的預算然後如果財務法要通過之後那這些錢中央還有錢補助嗎?那是由地方自己來出嗎?\n\n03:33.809 --> 03:52.968\n已經合訂的計畫第5期編完沒有預算的就回歸到公務預算您提的那第二個問題是您提的也很重要未來交通部要提列到跟行政院申請的這個中央負擔的部分這部分就要由主席總書來配合總酌來處理看看是否竟會足夠\n\n03:53.789 --> 03:53.949\n主席\n\n04:17.767 --> 04:41.565\n因為這就要檢討了因為當初如果核定但是中央實在是也沒有經費相關的財源當初的核定是按照說這個目前財務法的這個規模來做核定嘛那現在財務法已經沒有這麼多統售分配款可以運用啦我們實在1000多億啦那怎麼可能還按照本來中央核定的這個比例再去撥給地方呢中央的錢哪裡來\n\n04:42.626 --> 04:59.008\n因為現在如果說這個是前瞻計畫將來要回歸計畫型一個補助各部會的計畫型補助但是如果說我們優先要刪減大概也是計畫型的一個補助因為這是對各縣市的一個相關的一個補助的一個配套的一個計畫\n\n04:59.989 --> 05:23.551\n那所以計畫型補助就沒有辦法了嗎?對,因為我們計畫型補助有2911億裡面這個部分呢那大部分就是說我們要刪減6612億6612億刪減2911億之外還要再刪減3000多億所以這個部分呢等於是說各部會大部分都要刪減以上那有沒有可能這個查法通過之後\n\n05:24.492 --> 05:47.249\n本來,譬如說新北市,這個可能要算一下本來新北市要出的這個軌道建設的經費本來有中央補助那但是後來因為中央沒辦法補助他自己出了錢,會不會多於他拿到了這一個財務法之後分配給他的這一個分配款其實我們算過啦,如果是計畫型補助,大部分其實比較在\n\n05:48.260 --> 05:51.182\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函\n\n06:07.930 --> 06:10.391\n中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案：一、邀請相關部會首長就：一、審查行政院函請審議\n\n06:32.213 --> 06:53.711\n所以這個部分就是要請交通部再檢討對各縣市補助的一個比率好那最後我花一點時間就是說這個地下停車場的這個問題因為地下停車場現在你們有送計畫給國發會嘛已經有第三次修正了然後這個計畫的期程呢這個從106年9月延長到114年8月經費也從260億增加到320億了那請問一下那這個修正計畫今年會通過嗎\n\n07:04.071 --> 07:27.325\n各位報告我們已經提了就是停車場的這個計畫的修正那現在在行政院行政院就是說目前還在審查之中我是希望說這個能夠趕快去通過啦因為包含我自己選區這個有五個停車場五華、新谷、開源、六張大同都嗷嗷逮捕啦因為這個新北市政府他就說他錢不夠要跟中央來要\n\n07:28.746 --> 07:29.287\n主席李坤貞委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.149,"end":7.333,"text":"主席又不是AI機器人不能講話我尊重你請發言謝謝尊重我就不要來拔我的麥克風我沒有"},{"start":28.922,"end":35.245,"text":"我沒有評論我發表的意見請哪一位部長我請這個主計長還有請這個交通部的次長陳主計長 林次長"},{"start":46.873,"end":59.881,"text":"這個延續吳秉瑞委員的話題就是說我們這次在討論前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期這第5期是最後一期了嗎?是最後一期了那最後一期我們編了700多億"},{"start":62.863,"end":87.592,"text":"那接下來之後因為前瞻預算很多都是做地方的我先講軌道好了啦很多這個地方的軌道建設包含新北市的很多的輕軌捷運都是由中央來做這個補助的嘛那我請問一下那如果說這一個前瞻預算這個第5期是最後一期然後呢接下來那如果這個國民黨版的這個財劃法通過挖了6612億之後那到了115年之後"},{"start":91.073,"end":116.629,"text":"新北市的所有的軌道、輕軌、所有的這些建設,前要由誰來出?因為這個部分呢,因為當初在核電的計畫的時候有分配就是說中央補助多少、地方負擔多少那這個部分將來如果財務法通過之後中央本身自己就沒有能力來做補助這個部分可能都要回歸地方,由地方來做負擔"},{"start":117.589,"end":132.078,"text":"我舉個例子,這個115年度之後,中央有負擔的這個軌道建設有11件,那總金額是2175億,然後中央跟地方各有負擔,中央是1297,然後地方是877,然後115年之後,那邊的預算數中央負擔還有833億,"},{"start":139.463,"end":163.181,"text":"然後呢這個前瞻預算結束之後呢改由交通部公務預算喔改由交通部公務預算編列的這一個軌道計畫呢115年之後呢有1912億那就要請教一下這一個主席長跟這個次長這未來幾年軌道建設這個大概還有2746億的補助款這個要做"},{"start":166.804,"end":172.432,"text":"如果被國民黨版本財劃法挖了6610億之後接下來這些本來中央要負擔的軌道的建設"},{"start":183.683,"end":210.364,"text":"那要怎麼去做處理?那未來都是要由地方自己出嗎?比如說我新北市現在南北環要做、山陰縣要做、萬大樹林縣要做、淡海的輕軌要做本來都是由中央來做補助的那接下來115年之後沒有前瞻的預算然後如果財務法要通過之後那這些錢中央還有錢補助嗎?那是由地方自己來出嗎?"},{"start":213.809,"end":232.968,"text":"已經合訂的計畫第5期編完沒有預算的就回歸到公務預算您提的那第二個問題是您提的也很重要未來交通部要提列到跟行政院申請的這個中央負擔的部分這部分就要由主席總書來配合總酌來處理看看是否竟會足夠"},{"start":233.789,"end":233.949,"text":"主席"},{"start":257.767,"end":281.565,"text":"因為這就要檢討了因為當初如果核定但是中央實在是也沒有經費相關的財源當初的核定是按照說這個目前財務法的這個規模來做核定嘛那現在財務法已經沒有這麼多統售分配款可以運用啦我們實在1000多億啦那怎麼可能還按照本來中央核定的這個比例再去撥給地方呢中央的錢哪裡來"},{"start":282.626,"end":299.008,"text":"因為現在如果說這個是前瞻計畫將來要回歸計畫型一個補助各部會的計畫型補助但是如果說我們優先要刪減大概也是計畫型的一個補助因為這是對各縣市的一個相關的一個補助的一個配套的一個計畫"},{"start":299.989,"end":323.551,"text":"那所以計畫型補助就沒有辦法了嗎?對,因為我們計畫型補助有2911億裡面這個部分呢那大部分就是說我們要刪減6612億6612億刪減2911億之外還要再刪減3000多億所以這個部分呢等於是說各部會大部分都要刪減以上那有沒有可能這個查法通過之後"},{"start":324.492,"end":347.249,"text":"本來,譬如說新北市,這個可能要算一下本來新北市要出的這個軌道建設的經費本來有中央補助那但是後來因為中央沒辦法補助他自己出了錢,會不會多於他拿到了這一個財務法之後分配給他的這一個分配款其實我們算過啦,如果是計畫型補助,大部分其實比較在"},{"start":348.26,"end":351.182,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函"},{"start":367.93,"end":370.391,"text":"中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案 ：一、邀請相關部會首長就：一、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":392.213,"end":413.711,"text":"所以這個部分就是要請交通部再檢討對各縣市補助的一個比率好那最後我花一點時間就是說這個地下停車場的這個問題因為地下停車場現在你們有送計畫給國發會嘛已經有第三次修正了然後這個計畫的期程呢這個從106年9月延長到114年8月經費也從260億增加到320億了那請問一下那這個修正計畫今年會通過嗎"},{"start":424.071,"end":447.325,"text":"各位報告我們已經提了就是停車場的這個計畫的修正那現在在行政院行政院就是說目前還在審查之中我是希望說這個能夠趕快去通過啦因為包含我自己選區這個有五個停車場五華、新谷、開源、六張大同都嗷嗷逮捕啦因為這個新北市政府他就說他錢不夠要跟中央來要"},{"start":448.746,"end":449.287,"text":"主席李坤貞委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1248,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（10時21分）主席，我發言不要批評，好不好？不要有任何的評論，可以嗎？"],["主席：可以……"],["吳委員秉叡：我……尊重，好不好？"],["主席：我尊重你啊！你要不要再拔麥克風？要不要再來拔麥克風？"],["吳委員秉叡：尊重……"],["主席：請李坤城委員。"],["李委員坤城：彼此尊重，各個委員講完之後……"],["主席：歡迎啊！尊重啊！主席又不是AI機器人，不能講話。"],["李委員坤城：一樣啊！請尊重我！"],["主席：我尊重你，請發言，謝謝。"],["李委員坤城：我發言的時候不要有任何評論，可以嗎？"],["主席：尊重我就不要來拔我的麥克風。"],["李委員坤城：各個委員在質詢的時候是在跟官員做答詢，不是在跟你吵架。"],["主席：我沒有……"],["李委員坤城：你也不用評論我們的言論……"],["主席：我沒有評論，我發表我的意見。"],["李委員坤城：一樣啊！你沒有評論也不要發表你的意見。"],["主席：請哪一位部長？"],["李委員坤城：我請主計長，還有交通部次長。"],["主席：好，請陳主計長、林次長。"],["李委員坤城：我延續吳秉叡委員的話題，我們這次在討論的是前瞻預算第5期，第5期是最後一期了嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員坤城：最後一期我們編了七百多億，因為前瞻預算很多都是在做地方的建設，我先講軌道建設好了，很多地方的軌道建設包含新北市很多的輕軌捷運都是由中央來補助，請問前瞻預算第5期是最後一期，接下來如果國民黨版的財劃法通過了，挖了6,612億，到了115年之後，新北市所有的軌道、輕軌這些建設，錢要由誰來出？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為這個部分當初在核定計畫時有分配中央補助多少，地方負擔多少，將來如果財劃法通過之後，中央本身就沒有能力來進行補助，所以這個部分可能都要回歸地方，由地方來負擔。"],["李委員坤城：我舉個例子，115年度之後中央負擔的軌道建設有11件，總金額是2,175億，中央和地方各有負擔數，中央是1,297億、地方是877億；115年之後，待編預算數中央負擔還有833億。前瞻預算結束之後，改由交通部公務預算編列的軌道計畫，115年之後有1,912億，所以就要請教一下主計長和次長，未來幾年軌道建設大概還有2,746億的補助款要做，如果被國民黨版本的財劃法修正案挖了6,612億之後，接下來本來中央要負擔的軌道建設要怎麼去做處理？未來都要由地方自己出嗎？比方說我們新北市現在南北環要做、三鶯線要做、萬大樹林線要做，然後淡海的輕軌要做，本來都是有中央來做補助的，接下來呢？115年之後呢？一來沒有前瞻預算，二來如果財劃法又修正通過的話，中央還有錢補助嗎？最後會由地方自己來出嗎？"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，已經核定的計畫第5期編完沒有預算的，就回歸到公務預算，就如您提的。第二個問題是，您提的也很重要，未來交通部要提列到跟行政院申請的中央負擔的部分，這一部分就要由主計總處配合來統籌處理，看看經費是否足夠，經費如果不夠的話，可能就要做一點處理才能……"],["李委員坤城：剛剛聽主計長講了，經費不夠啊！我們只剩下一千多億啊，這樣經費哪夠！所以未來地方的軌道建設都是由地方自己出錢就對了？"],["林次長國顯：已經核定的應該會照原來核定的比例，那……"],["李委員坤城：中央已經沒有錢了，還要照原來核定的比例來做哦？來，主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以就要檢討了，因為當初雖然核定，但是中央實在是也沒有相關的經費……"],["李委員坤城：當初核定是按照目前財劃法的這個規模來做核定嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員坤城：現在財劃法已經沒有這麼多統籌分配款可以運用，我們只剩下一千多億了啊，那怎麼可能還按照本來中央核定的比例去撥給地方呢？中央的錢哪裡來？"],["陳主計長淑姿：如果現在這個是前瞻計畫，將來要回歸各部會的計畫型補助；但是如果優先要刪減，大概也是計畫型補助，因為這是對各縣市相關補助的配套計畫。"],["李委員坤城：所以計畫型補助就沒有辦法了嘛？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，因為我們計畫型補助有2,911億，如果修法後要刪減6,612億，6,612億刪減2,911億之外，還要再刪減三千多億，所以這個部分等於是說各部會大部分都要刪減。"],["李委員坤城：有沒有可能財劃法修正通過之後，譬如說新北市，這個可能要算一下，本來新北市要出的軌道建設經費有中央補助，但是後來因為中央沒辦法補助了，它自己出的錢會不會多於它拿到的財劃法之後分配給它的分配款？"],["陳主計長淑姿：其實我們算過，如果是計畫型補助，大部分是在六都直轄市，一般性補助比較偏在縣市，所以這兩個是互相……"],["李委員坤城：所以你們要去檢討，就是不可能按照當初在財劃法的規模之下，中央跟地方核定的比例。次長，請你聽一下。因為中央已經沒有錢了啊，那你還當冤大頭！就是說已經沒有錢了，本來是補助多少，接下來還是按照原比例補助！中央有錢當然要補助……"],["陳主計長淑姿：是！"],["李委員坤城：但是中央沒有錢、地方拿到錢了，當然只有由地方自己來出啊！不然這個建設怎麼做下去？未來比如說這個軌道建設，像我們的北環有經過新北跟臺北，那以後這個是誰要去做統籌？"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以這個部分就是要請交通部再檢討對各縣市補助的比例。"],["李委員坤城：好，最後我花一點時間請教有關地下停車場的問題。地下停車場的部分你們有送計畫給國發會，而且已經是第三次修正了，計畫期程從106年9月延長到114年8月，經費從260億增加到320億元，請問一下，這個修正計畫今年會通過嗎？"],["林次長國顯：我們請公路局長來說明。"],["陳局長文瑞：跟委員報告，我們已經提了停車場這個計畫的修正案，現在在行政院，行政院目前還在審查之中。"],["李委員坤城：我是希望能夠趕快通過，因為包含我自己的選區有5個停車場：五華、興穀、開元、六張、大同，都嗷嗷待哺，新北市政府說它錢不夠，要跟中央要，地方的確有這個需求，我希望這個停車場的計畫能夠讓它通過。"],["陳局長文瑞：是，我們會盡力爭取。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝。"],["陳局長文瑞：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員。","主計長，這兩年不是都超徵三、四千億嗎？今年不是也超徵4,000億嗎？這個要列入考慮喔！錢要用喔！","請陳亭妃委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","李坤城","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","林宜瑾","郭國文","賴惠員","賴士葆","洪孟楷","顏寬恒","萬美玲","王世堅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張雅琳","柯志恩","王鴻薇","陳超明","陳菁徽","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","黃秀芳","吳沛憶","林月琴","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","李柏毅","張智倫","李彥秀","黃健豪","徐富癸","張宏陸","謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","劉建國","范雲","游顥","林倩綺","王正旭","何欣純","羅明才","鄭正鈐","王育敏","葛如鈞","邱志偉","羅廷瑋","盧縣一","吳春城","黃珊珊","林俊憲","黃國昌","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","蔡其昌","張嘉郡","陳素月","邱議瑩","葉元之","邱鎮軍","蔡易餘"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請相關部會首長就「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算執行情形及成效」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；二、審查行政院函請審議「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 5 期特別預算案\n（114年度）」（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00002"}}}