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589.98, \"end\": 590.12, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 590.12, \"end\": 590.26, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 590.26, \"end\": 590.28, \"score\": 0.449}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,377 --> 00:00:14,151\n鄭正前委員主席好我想請一下郭部長緊急部郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:22,284 --> 00:00:40,103\n委員長部長好你從企業界轉到公部門當中那你也知道其實我對於你有一些期待因為我們希望說能夠把企業界的有一些好的特質然後帶到公部門裡面來不過因為企業界其實它是國際化的然後公部門當中它有一些重要的原則\n\n3\n00:00:41,164 --> 00:00:57,331\n台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限\n\n4\n00:01:08,895 --> 00:01:37,129\n這都沒有問題我覺得您在企業界我覺得跟著原本就是台積電的半導體產業鏈的一環這個我們大家都理解我只在想說因為在2024年您接部長之後你提出了一個很重要的政策就是境外關內的這個部分目前確實你也在努力的其實要讓整個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到熊本去有這樣的事情嗎對不對\n\n5\n00:01:38,611 --> 00:01:54,646\n報告委員這個是這樣子就是說這個日本這個熊本的這個JASM這個公司這個公司事實上有日本的股份在那日本的股份就我所了解他們要求5年以後60%的材料\n\n6\n00:01:58,648 --> 00:02:20,982\n理解部長我在想說因為這個事情目前是這樣在走我想說整個方向確實也就是如此我在想說因為昨天有其他委員有特別提到說您現在好像變成日本的招商局局長這件事情我待會有時間讓你回應我只是要特別講到一個點就是說當整個台積電\n\n7\n00:02:22,845 --> 00:02:39,416\n所帶動的一個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到日本去的時候對台灣來講是不是能夠爭取到更多的一個條件更好的一個條件為台灣爭取更多的一個國家利益所以我今天的一個問題就是說\n\n8\n00:02:41,758 --> 00:03:03,570\n針對這樣子的一件事情那台積電如果說不斷的外移原本我們都認為台積電是護國神山這樣子的一個效力會不會減少如果說剛剛也委員提到說去亞利桑那州的問題台積電不斷的出走之後你覺得對於台灣的護國的一個能量會不會降低\n\n9\n00:03:04,410 --> 00:03:24,126\n完全不會降低而且會幫助台積電在未來的這個市場裡面更加的雄偉為什麼說更加的雄偉因為你必須要用很多國外的人才來經營國外的市場因為我們台灣在台灣我們是技術領先\n\n10\n00:03:25,467 --> 00:03:42,162\n但是在市場上面我們是要服務各個海外的這個市場的客人所以以台積電這麼優秀的這樣的一個技術本位他為什麼人家會需要他到美國去會到這個歐洲會到日本主要是\n\n11\n00:03:43,543 --> 00:04:08,436\n市場的問題嘛市場我理解這部分那我只是要特別提到說因為當台積電尤其很多的一個先進製程也不斷的外移的時候我們對於台積電在台灣的護國這樣的一個效力的時候你剛講說會越來越雄偉其實很多人肯定不認同很多學術專家也不認同那我希望針對這個部分就是你要好好的去\n\n12\n00:04:09,176 --> 00:04:34,217\n拿捏這個部分尤其是我剛剛提到2022年一路過來從企業家轉換成部長這狀態然後同時去做了一個境外關內這樣的一個政策的時候很多人覺得說這是擺明要讓台灣的一個產業打包一起集體外移所以這個部分我們希望經濟部在做這過程當中的時候一定要為台灣爭取到更多的一個資源比方說我們\n\n13\n00:04:34,938 --> 00:04:59,176\n整體半導體產業鏈到日本熊本去的時候日本是不是就會更大力的支持我們進到CPTPP類似這樣的一個條件或者是其他另外的一些關稅其他相關的一些投資台灣的一些相關的部分我們希望把台灣半導體外移的動作的時候變成我們跟其他國家談判的籌碼好不好\n\n14\n00:05:00,116 --> 00:05:26,191\n確實是如委員你所垂詢的我們所做的部分都是為了台灣的產業更具有世界競爭力所以我們去的時候是以大代小具有競爭力的產業我們把台灣中小企業特別多中小企業要發展海外的事業其實有它的困難經濟部的立場就是幫他們順利的落地第二個幫他們爭取稅金上面的優惠\n\n15\n00:05:27,391 --> 00:05:44,779\n這個我們如果不是用經濟部的立場我相信以我們中小企業要跟當地國去談這一種所謂的投資優惠應該是談不了另外一部分我也希望我們這樣去的時候我們也希望日本能夠加強對台灣的一個投資力度在談判當中我們都希望把它談進來好不好部長\n\n16\n00:05:45,880 --> 00:06:04,439\n接下來我還是要問到一個有關於台電相關的問題因為整個出入能源政策是大家講很久那台電財務的惡性循環我這邊要特別提到那我這邊常聽到一個狀態就是說有很多配合政府去做的再生能源的業者他們\n\n17\n00:06:08,823 --> 00:06:23,559\n設備都投資完成了可是因為匱限的不足還有其他相關的配套不足的時候沒有辦法併網部長你知道這樣的事情嗎這個是在過去啦我們來了以後啊我們考慮了很多提出很多的解決方案\n\n18\n00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:52,647\n這個委員我可以再跟你報告因為我這邊看到至少到目前為止還在再生能源業者等著要併網的件數有1536件其實非常非常的多而且有很多有300億件等超過兩年那你這邊你說你有那個更新的一個書你再跟我本席這邊做報告那我這邊要特別講一個情況比方說在這樣的一個情況之下我想問一下因為這幾年台電\n\n19\n00:06:53,467 --> 00:07:13,502\n除了一直要從政府這邊要錢去增資去撥補到明年預價5000億這是一個很龐大的數字但有2000億還在立法院當中我想要問一下在這麼多錢當中的時候台電也不對在投入他們的一個固定資產的一個建設計畫當中明年有多少金額這個我是不是請可以總經理回答報告委員明年在固定資產\n\n20\n00:07:23,834 --> 00:07:25,295\n臺電要付出的利息就超過320億這個數字是正確的嘛對不對\n\n21\n00:07:52,275 --> 00:08:18,006\n320億有多大?右邊我們看到包括外交部一年的公務預算都還沒有那麼高只有319億司法院、文化部、總統府、速發部、環境部、立法院、監察院、僑委會、經管會這麼多十大的一個單位包含總統府在內一年的預算都沒有320億我們台電光是付利息的支出就要320億那這當中肯定是有很多政策上的\n\n22\n00:08:21,008 --> 00:08:38,720\n本席也希望部長這邊能夠好好的去把台電這邊的體質做一個優化因為你上次在我們委員會當中你也直接承諾如果爭取到這兩千億的一個撥補的預算如果台電還要再繼續\n\n23\n00:08:41,990 --> 00:09:09,233\n調漲電費你就要下台有這樣的事情嗎?部長跟委員報告剛剛您提到那個舉債這麼多主要是因為台電的設備都是大型的投資都是長期的投資理解可是說我們本來想說台電他是一個公營系本來想自己賺錢自己來做投資這是最好的一個狀態可是現在很大部分都按照要由政府這邊來撥補所以我們認為不太適合所以我想針對部長這個部分因為部長也提出了要求\n\n24\n00:09:09,953 --> 00:09:35,028\n我們政府能夠撥補台電兩千億包括追加預算跟明年的預算然後如果再調高電費你這邊之前有承諾過還是說你這邊有其他的說法跟看法簡單回應一下好不好部長報告兩千億是補那個名稱我知道讓部長回答好不好總經理謝謝報告委員我在之前很久以前我曾經有這樣說過了是\n\n25\n00:09:37,170 --> 00:09:50,280\n本席希望你能夠好好把台電這邊體制健全起來不要繼續要政府持續的撥補三年五千億實在是太多了好不好謝謝委員這方面是我的專長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n377\t14151\t鄭正前委員主席好我想請一下郭部長緊急部郭部長\n22284\t40103\t委員長部長好你從企業界轉到公部門當中那你也知道其實我對於你有一些期待因為我們希望說能夠把企業界的有一些好的特質然後帶到公部門裡面來不過因為企業界其實它是國際化的然後公部門當中它有一些重要的原則\n41164\t57331\t台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限\n68895\t97129\t這都沒有問題我覺得您在企業界我覺得跟著原本就是台積電的半導體產業鏈的一環這個我們大家都理解我只在想說因為在2024年您接部長之後你提出了一個很重要的政策就是境外關內的這個部分目前確實你也在努力的其實要讓整個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到熊本去有這樣的事情嗎 對不對\n98611\t114646\t報告委員 這個是這樣子就是說這個日本這個熊本的這個JASM這個公司這個公司事實上有日本的股份在那日本的股份就我所了解他們要求5年以後60%的材料\n118648\t140982\t理解部長我在想說因為這個事情目前是這樣在走我想說整個方向確實也就是如此我在想說因為昨天有其他委員有特別提到說您現在好像變成日本的招商局局長這件事情我待會有時間讓你回應我只是要特別講到一個點就是說當整個台積電\n142845\t159416\t所帶動的一個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到日本去的時候對台灣來講是不是能夠爭取到更多的一個條件更好的一個條件為台灣爭取更多的一個國家利益所以我今天的一個問題就是說\n161758\t183570\t針對這樣子的一件事情那台積電如果說不斷的外移原本我們都認為台積電是護國神山這樣子的一個效力會不會減少如果說剛剛也委員提到說去亞利桑那州的問題台積電不斷的出走之後你覺得對於台灣的護國的一個能量會不會降低\n184410\t204126\t完全不會降低而且會幫助台積電在未來的這個市場裡面更加的雄偉為什麼說更加的雄偉因為你必須要用很多國外的人才來經營國外的市場因為我們台灣在台灣我們是技術領先\n205467\t222162\t但是在市場上面我們是要服務各個海外的這個市場的客人所以以台積電這麼優秀的這樣的一個技術本位他為什麼人家會需要他到美國去會到這個歐洲會到日本主要是\n223543\t248436\t市場的問題嘛市場我理解這部分那我只是要特別提到說因為當台積電尤其很多的一個先進製程也不斷的外移的時候我們對於台積電在台灣的護國這樣的一個效力的時候你剛講說會越來越雄偉其實很多人肯定不認同很多學術專家也不認同那我希望針對這個部分就是你要好好的去\n249176\t274217\t拿捏這個部分尤其是我剛剛提到2022年一路過來從企業家轉換成部長這狀態然後同時去做了一個境外關內這樣的一個政策的時候很多人覺得說這是擺明要讓台灣的一個產業打包一起集體外移所以這個部分我們希望經濟部在做這過程當中的時候一定要為台灣爭取到更多的一個資源比方說我們\n274938\t299176\t整體半導體產業鏈到日本熊本去的時候日本是不是就會更大力的支持我們進到CPTPP類似這樣的一個條件或者是其他另外的一些關稅其他相關的一些投資台灣的一些相關的部分我們希望把台灣半導體外移的動作的時候變成我們跟其他國家談判的籌碼好不好\n300116\t326191\t確實是如委員你所垂詢的我們所做的部分都是為了台灣的產業更具有世界競爭力所以我們去的時候是以大代小具有競爭力的產業我們把台灣中小企業特別多中小企業要發展海外的事業其實有它的困難經濟部的立場就是幫他們順利的落地第二個幫他們爭取稅金上面的優惠\n327391\t344779\t這個我們如果不是用經濟部的立場我相信以我們中小企業要跟當地國去談這一種所謂的投資優惠應該是談不了另外一部分我也希望我們這樣去的時候我們也希望日本能夠加強對台灣的一個投資力度在談判當中我們都希望把它談進來好不好部長\n345880\t364439\t接下來我還是要問到一個有關於台電相關的問題因為整個出入能源政策是大家講很久那台電財務的惡性循環我這邊要特別提到那我這邊常聽到一個狀態就是說有很多配合政府去做的再生能源的業者他們\n368823\t383559\t設備都投資完成了可是因為匱限的不足還有其他相關的配套不足的時候沒有辦法併網部長你知道這樣的事情嗎這個是在過去啦我們來了以後啊我們考慮了很多提出很多的解決方案\n384399\t412647\t這個委員我可以再跟你報告因為我這邊看到至少到目前為止還在再生能源業者等著要併網的件數有1536件其實非常非常的多而且有很多有300億件等超過兩年那你這邊你說你有那個更新的一個書你再跟我本席這邊做報告那我這邊要特別講一個情況比方說在這樣的一個情況之下我想問一下因為這幾年台電\n413467\t433502\t除了一直要從政府這邊要錢去增資去撥補到明年預價5000億這是一個很龐大的數字但有2000億還在立法院當中我想要問一下在這麼多錢當中的時候台電也不對在投入他們的一個固定資產的一個建設計畫當中明年有多少金額這個我是不是請可以總經理回答報告委員明年在固定資產\n443834\t445295\t臺電要付出的利息就超過320億 這個數字是正確的嘛 對不對\n472275\t498006\t320億有多大?右邊我們看到包括外交部一年的公務預算都還沒有那麼高只有319億司法院、文化部、總統府、速發部、環境部、立法院、監察院、僑委會、經管會這麼多十大的一個單位包含總統府在內一年的預算都沒有320億我們台電光是付利息的支出就要320億那這當中肯定是有很多政策上的\n501008\t518720\t本席也希望部長這邊能夠好好的去把台電這邊的體質做一個優化因為你上次在我們委員會當中你也直接承諾如果爭取到這兩千億的一個撥補的預算如果台電還要再繼續\n521990\t549233\t調漲電費你就要下台有這樣的事情嗎?部長跟委員報告剛剛您提到那個舉債這麼多主要是因為台電的設備都是大型的投資都是長期的投資理解可是說我們本來想說台電他是一個公營系本來想自己賺錢自己來做投資這是最好的一個狀態可是現在很大部分都按照要由政府這邊來撥補所以我們認為不太適合所以我想針對部長這個部分因為部長也提出了要求\n549953\t575028\t我們政府能夠撥補台電兩千億包括追加預算跟明年的預算然後如果再調高電費你這邊之前有承諾過還是說你這邊有其他的說法跟看法簡單回應一下好不好部長報告兩千億是補那個名稱我知道讓部長回答好不好總經理謝謝報告委員我在之前很久以前我曾經有這樣說過了是\n577170\t590280\t本席希望你能夠好好把台電這邊體制健全起來不要繼續要政府持續的撥補三年五千億實在是太多了好不好謝謝委員 這方面是我的專長\n","txt":"鄭正前委員主席好我想請一下郭部長緊急部郭部長\n委員長部長好你從企業界轉到公部門當中那你也知道其實我對於你有一些期待因為我們希望說能夠把企業界的有一些好的特質然後帶到公部門裡面來不過因為企業界其實它是國際化的然後公部門當中它有一些重要的原則\n台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限\n這都沒有問題我覺得您在企業界我覺得跟著原本就是台積電的半導體產業鏈的一環這個我們大家都理解我只在想說因為在2024年您接部長之後你提出了一個很重要的政策就是境外關內的這個部分目前確實你也在努力的其實要讓整個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到熊本去有這樣的事情嗎 對不對\n報告委員 這個是這樣子就是說這個日本這個熊本的這個JASM這個公司這個公司事實上有日本的股份在那日本的股份就我所了解他們要求5年以後60%的材料\n理解部長我在想說因為這個事情目前是這樣在走我想說整個方向確實也就是如此我在想說因為昨天有其他委員有特別提到說您現在好像變成日本的招商局局長這件事情我待會有時間讓你回應我只是要特別講到一個點就是說當整個台積電\n所帶動的一個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到日本去的時候對台灣來講是不是能夠爭取到更多的一個條件更好的一個條件為台灣爭取更多的一個國家利益所以我今天的一個問題就是說\n針對這樣子的一件事情那台積電如果說不斷的外移原本我們都認為台積電是護國神山這樣子的一個效力會不會減少如果說剛剛也委員提到說去亞利桑那州的問題台積電不斷的出走之後你覺得對於台灣的護國的一個能量會不會降低\n完全不會降低而且會幫助台積電在未來的這個市場裡面更加的雄偉為什麼說更加的雄偉因為你必須要用很多國外的人才來經營國外的市場因為我們台灣在台灣我們是技術領先\n但是在市場上面我們是要服務各個海外的這個市場的客人所以以台積電這麼優秀的這樣的一個技術本位他為什麼人家會需要他到美國去會到這個歐洲會到日本主要是\n市場的問題嘛市場我理解這部分那我只是要特別提到說因為當台積電尤其很多的一個先進製程也不斷的外移的時候我們對於台積電在台灣的護國這樣的一個效力的時候你剛講說會越來越雄偉其實很多人肯定不認同很多學術專家也不認同那我希望針對這個部分就是你要好好的去\n拿捏這個部分尤其是我剛剛提到2022年一路過來從企業家轉換成部長這狀態然後同時去做了一個境外關內這樣的一個政策的時候很多人覺得說這是擺明要讓台灣的一個產業打包一起集體外移所以這個部分我們希望經濟部在做這過程當中的時候一定要為台灣爭取到更多的一個資源比方說我們\n整體半導體產業鏈到日本熊本去的時候日本是不是就會更大力的支持我們進到CPTPP類似這樣的一個條件或者是其他另外的一些關稅其他相關的一些投資台灣的一些相關的部分我們希望把台灣半導體外移的動作的時候變成我們跟其他國家談判的籌碼好不好\n確實是如委員你所垂詢的我們所做的部分都是為了台灣的產業更具有世界競爭力所以我們去的時候是以大代小具有競爭力的產業我們把台灣中小企業特別多中小企業要發展海外的事業其實有它的困難經濟部的立場就是幫他們順利的落地第二個幫他們爭取稅金上面的優惠\n這個我們如果不是用經濟部的立場我相信以我們中小企業要跟當地國去談這一種所謂的投資優惠應該是談不了另外一部分我也希望我們這樣去的時候我們也希望日本能夠加強對台灣的一個投資力度在談判當中我們都希望把它談進來好不好部長\n接下來我還是要問到一個有關於台電相關的問題因為整個出入能源政策是大家講很久那台電財務的惡性循環我這邊要特別提到那我這邊常聽到一個狀態就是說有很多配合政府去做的再生能源的業者他們\n設備都投資完成了可是因為匱限的不足還有其他相關的配套不足的時候沒有辦法併網部長你知道這樣的事情嗎這個是在過去啦我們來了以後啊我們考慮了很多提出很多的解決方案\n這個委員我可以再跟你報告因為我這邊看到至少到目前為止還在再生能源業者等著要併網的件數有1536件其實非常非常的多而且有很多有300億件等超過兩年那你這邊你說你有那個更新的一個書你再跟我本席這邊做報告那我這邊要特別講一個情況比方說在這樣的一個情況之下我想問一下因為這幾年台電\n除了一直要從政府這邊要錢去增資去撥補到明年預價5000億這是一個很龐大的數字但有2000億還在立法院當中我想要問一下在這麼多錢當中的時候台電也不對在投入他們的一個固定資產的一個建設計畫當中明年有多少金額這個我是不是請可以總經理回答報告委員明年在固定資產\n臺電要付出的利息就超過320億 這個數字是正確的嘛 對不對\n320億有多大?右邊我們看到包括外交部一年的公務預算都還沒有那麼高只有319億司法院、文化部、總統府、速發部、環境部、立法院、監察院、僑委會、經管會這麼多十大的一個單位包含總統府在內一年的預算都沒有320億我們台電光是付利息的支出就要320億那這當中肯定是有很多政策上的\n本席也希望部長這邊能夠好好的去把台電這邊的體質做一個優化因為你上次在我們委員會當中你也直接承諾如果爭取到這兩千億的一個撥補的預算如果台電還要再繼續\n調漲電費你就要下台有這樣的事情嗎?部長跟委員報告剛剛您提到那個舉債這麼多主要是因為台電的設備都是大型的投資都是長期的投資理解可是說我們本來想說台電他是一個公營系本來想自己賺錢自己來做投資這是最好的一個狀態可是現在很大部分都按照要由政府這邊來撥補所以我們認為不太適合所以我想針對部長這個部分因為部長也提出了要求\n我們政府能夠撥補台電兩千億包括追加預算跟明年的預算然後如果再調高電費你這邊之前有承諾過還是說你這邊有其他的說法跟看法簡單回應一下好不好部長報告兩千億是補那個名稱我知道讓部長回答好不好總經理謝謝報告委員我在之前很久以前我曾經有這樣說過了是\n本席希望你能夠好好把台電這邊體制健全起來不要繼續要政府持續的撥補三年五千億實在是太多了好不好謝謝委員 這方面是我的專長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.377 --> 00:14.151\n鄭正前委員主席好我想請一下郭部長緊急部郭部長\n\n00:22.284 --> 00:40.103\n委員長部長好你從企業界轉到公部門當中那你也知道其實我對於你有一些期待因為我們希望說能夠把企業界的有一些好的特質然後帶到公部門裡面來不過因為企業界其實它是國際化的然後公部門當中它有一些重要的原則\n\n00:41.164 --> 00:57.331\n台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限\n\n01:08.895 --> 01:37.129\n這都沒有問題我覺得您在企業界我覺得跟著原本就是台積電的半導體產業鏈的一環這個我們大家都理解我只在想說因為在2024年您接部長之後你提出了一個很重要的政策就是境外關內的這個部分目前確實你也在努力的其實要讓整個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到熊本去有這樣的事情嗎對不對\n\n01:38.611 --> 01:54.646\n報告委員這個是這樣子就是說這個日本這個熊本的這個JASM這個公司這個公司事實上有日本的股份在那日本的股份就我所了解他們要求5年以後60%的材料\n\n01:58.648 --> 02:20.982\n理解部長我在想說因為這個事情目前是這樣在走我想說整個方向確實也就是如此我在想說因為昨天有其他委員有特別提到說您現在好像變成日本的招商局局長這件事情我待會有時間讓你回應我只是要特別講到一個點就是說當整個台積電\n\n02:22.845 --> 02:39.416\n所帶動的一個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到日本去的時候對台灣來講是不是能夠爭取到更多的一個條件更好的一個條件為台灣爭取更多的一個國家利益所以我今天的一個問題就是說\n\n02:41.758 --> 03:03.570\n針對這樣子的一件事情那台積電如果說不斷的外移原本我們都認為台積電是護國神山這樣子的一個效力會不會減少如果說剛剛也委員提到說去亞利桑那州的問題台積電不斷的出走之後你覺得對於台灣的護國的一個能量會不會降低\n\n03:04.410 --> 03:24.126\n完全不會降低而且會幫助台積電在未來的這個市場裡面更加的雄偉為什麼說更加的雄偉因為你必須要用很多國外的人才來經營國外的市場因為我們台灣在台灣我們是技術領先\n\n03:25.467 --> 03:42.162\n但是在市場上面我們是要服務各個海外的這個市場的客人所以以台積電這麼優秀的這樣的一個技術本位他為什麼人家會需要他到美國去會到這個歐洲會到日本主要是\n\n03:43.543 --> 04:08.436\n市場的問題嘛市場我理解這部分那我只是要特別提到說因為當台積電尤其很多的一個先進製程也不斷的外移的時候我們對於台積電在台灣的護國這樣的一個效力的時候你剛講說會越來越雄偉其實很多人肯定不認同很多學術專家也不認同那我希望針對這個部分就是你要好好的去\n\n04:09.176 --> 04:34.217\n拿捏這個部分尤其是我剛剛提到2022年一路過來從企業家轉換成部長這狀態然後同時去做了一個境外關內這樣的一個政策的時候很多人覺得說這是擺明要讓台灣的一個產業打包一起集體外移所以這個部分我們希望經濟部在做這過程當中的時候一定要為台灣爭取到更多的一個資源比方說我們\n\n04:34.938 --> 04:59.176\n整體半導體產業鏈到日本熊本去的時候日本是不是就會更大力的支持我們進到CPTPP類似這樣的一個條件或者是其他另外的一些關稅其他相關的一些投資台灣的一些相關的部分我們希望把台灣半導體外移的動作的時候變成我們跟其他國家談判的籌碼好不好\n\n05:00.116 --> 05:26.191\n確實是如委員你所垂詢的我們所做的部分都是為了台灣的產業更具有世界競爭力所以我們去的時候是以大代小具有競爭力的產業我們把台灣中小企業特別多中小企業要發展海外的事業其實有它的困難經濟部的立場就是幫他們順利的落地第二個幫他們爭取稅金上面的優惠\n\n05:27.391 --> 05:44.779\n這個我們如果不是用經濟部的立場我相信以我們中小企業要跟當地國去談這一種所謂的投資優惠應該是談不了另外一部分我也希望我們這樣去的時候我們也希望日本能夠加強對台灣的一個投資力度在談判當中我們都希望把它談進來好不好部長\n\n05:45.880 --> 06:04.439\n接下來我還是要問到一個有關於台電相關的問題因為整個出入能源政策是大家講很久那台電財務的惡性循環我這邊要特別提到那我這邊常聽到一個狀態就是說有很多配合政府去做的再生能源的業者他們\n\n06:08.823 --> 06:23.559\n設備都投資完成了可是因為匱限的不足還有其他相關的配套不足的時候沒有辦法併網部長你知道這樣的事情嗎這個是在過去啦我們來了以後啊我們考慮了很多提出很多的解決方案\n\n06:24.399 --> 06:52.647\n這個委員我可以再跟你報告因為我這邊看到至少到目前為止還在再生能源業者等著要併網的件數有1536件其實非常非常的多而且有很多有300億件等超過兩年那你這邊你說你有那個更新的一個書你再跟我本席這邊做報告那我這邊要特別講一個情況比方說在這樣的一個情況之下我想問一下因為這幾年台電\n\n06:53.467 --> 07:13.502\n除了一直要從政府這邊要錢去增資去撥補到明年預價5000億這是一個很龐大的數字但有2000億還在立法院當中我想要問一下在這麼多錢當中的時候台電也不對在投入他們的一個固定資產的一個建設計畫當中明年有多少金額這個我是不是請可以總經理回答報告委員明年在固定資產\n\n07:23.834 --> 07:25.295\n臺電要付出的利息就超過320億這個數字是正確的嘛對不對\n\n07:52.275 --> 08:18.006\n320億有多大?右邊我們看到包括外交部一年的公務預算都還沒有那麼高只有319億司法院、文化部、總統府、速發部、環境部、立法院、監察院、僑委會、經管會這麼多十大的一個單位包含總統府在內一年的預算都沒有320億我們台電光是付利息的支出就要320億那這當中肯定是有很多政策上的\n\n08:21.008 --> 08:38.720\n本席也希望部長這邊能夠好好的去把台電這邊的體質做一個優化因為你上次在我們委員會當中你也直接承諾如果爭取到這兩千億的一個撥補的預算如果台電還要再繼續\n\n08:41.990 --> 09:09.233\n調漲電費你就要下台有這樣的事情嗎?部長跟委員報告剛剛您提到那個舉債這麼多主要是因為台電的設備都是大型的投資都是長期的投資理解可是說我們本來想說台電他是一個公營系本來想自己賺錢自己來做投資這是最好的一個狀態可是現在很大部分都按照要由政府這邊來撥補所以我們認為不太適合所以我想針對部長這個部分因為部長也提出了要求\n\n09:09.953 --> 09:35.028\n我們政府能夠撥補台電兩千億包括追加預算跟明年的預算然後如果再調高電費你這邊之前有承諾過還是說你這邊有其他的說法跟看法簡單回應一下好不好部長報告兩千億是補那個名稱我知道讓部長回答好不好總經理謝謝報告委員我在之前很久以前我曾經有這樣說過了是\n\n09:37.170 --> 09:50.280\n本席希望你能夠好好把台電這邊體制健全起來不要繼續要政府持續的撥補三年五千億實在是太多了好不好謝謝委員這方面是我的專長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.377,"end":14.151,"text":"鄭正前委員主席好我想請一下郭部長緊急部郭部長"},{"start":22.284,"end":40.103,"text":"委員長部長好你從企業界轉到公部門當中那你也知道其實我對於你有一些期待因為我們希望說能夠把企業界的有一些好的特質然後帶到公部門裡面來不過因為企業界其實它是國際化的然後公部門當中它有一些重要的原則"},{"start":41.164,"end":57.331,"text":"台灣電力股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限公司、台灣自來水股份有限"},{"start":68.895,"end":97.129,"text":"這都沒有問題我覺得您在企業界我覺得跟著原本就是台積電的半導體產業鏈的一環這個我們大家都理解我只在想說因為在2024年您接部長之後你提出了一個很重要的政策就是境外關內的這個部分目前確實你也在努力的其實要讓整個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到熊本去有這樣的事情嗎 對不對"},{"start":98.611,"end":114.646,"text":"報告委員 這個是這樣子就是說這個日本這個熊本的這個JASM這個公司這個公司事實上有日本的股份在那日本的股份就我所了解他們要求5年以後60%的材料"},{"start":118.648,"end":140.982,"text":"理解部長我在想說因為這個事情目前是這樣在走我想說整個方向確實也就是如此我在想說因為昨天有其他委員有特別提到說您現在好像變成日本的招商局局長這件事情我待會有時間讓你回應我只是要特別講到一個點就是說當整個台積電"},{"start":142.845,"end":159.416,"text":"所帶動的一個半導體的一個供應鏈一起到日本去的時候對台灣來講是不是能夠爭取到更多的一個條件更好的一個條件為台灣爭取更多的一個國家利益所以我今天的一個問題就是說"},{"start":161.758,"end":183.57,"text":"針對這樣子的一件事情那台積電如果說不斷的外移原本我們都認為台積電是護國神山這樣子的一個效力會不會減少如果說剛剛也委員提到說去亞利桑那州的問題台積電不斷的出走之後你覺得對於台灣的護國的一個能量會不會降低"},{"start":184.41,"end":204.126,"text":"完全不會降低而且會幫助台積電在未來的這個市場裡面更加的雄偉為什麼說更加的雄偉因為你必須要用很多國外的人才來經營國外的市場因為我們台灣在台灣我們是技術領先"},{"start":205.467,"end":222.162,"text":"但是在市場上面我們是要服務各個海外的這個市場的客人所以以台積電這麼優秀的這樣的一個技術本位他為什麼人家會需要他到美國去會到這個歐洲會到日本主要是"},{"start":223.543,"end":248.436,"text":"市場的問題嘛市場我理解這部分那我只是要特別提到說因為當台積電尤其很多的一個先進製程也不斷的外移的時候我們對於台積電在台灣的護國這樣的一個效力的時候你剛講說會越來越雄偉其實很多人肯定不認同很多學術專家也不認同那我希望針對這個部分就是你要好好的去"},{"start":249.176,"end":274.217,"text":"拿捏這個部分尤其是我剛剛提到2022年一路過來從企業家轉換成部長這狀態然後同時去做了一個境外關內這樣的一個政策的時候很多人覺得說這是擺明要讓台灣的一個產業打包一起集體外移所以這個部分我們希望經濟部在做這過程當中的時候一定要為台灣爭取到更多的一個資源比方說我們"},{"start":274.938,"end":299.176,"text":"整體半導體產業鏈到日本熊本去的時候日本是不是就會更大力的支持我們進到CPTPP類似這樣的一個條件或者是其他另外的一些關稅其他相關的一些投資台灣的一些相關的部分我們希望把台灣半導體外移的動作的時候變成我們跟其他國家談判的籌碼好不好"},{"start":300.116,"end":326.191,"text":"確實是如委員你所垂詢的我們所做的部分都是為了台灣的產業更具有世界競爭力所以我們去的時候是以大代小具有競爭力的產業我們把台灣中小企業特別多中小企業要發展海外的事業其實有它的困難經濟部的立場就是幫他們順利的落地第二個幫他們爭取稅金上面的優惠"},{"start":327.391,"end":344.779,"text":"這個我們如果不是用經濟部的立場我相信以我們中小企業要跟當地國去談這一種所謂的投資優惠應該是談不了另外一部分我也希望我們這樣去的時候我們也希望日本能夠加強對台灣的一個投資力度在談判當中我們都希望把它談進來好不好部長"},{"start":345.88,"end":364.439,"text":"接下來我還是要問到一個有關於台電相關的問題因為整個出入能源政策是大家講很久那台電財務的惡性循環我這邊要特別提到那我這邊常聽到一個狀態就是說有很多配合政府去做的再生能源的業者他們"},{"start":368.823,"end":383.559,"text":"設備都投資完成了可是因為匱限的不足還有其他相關的配套不足的時候沒有辦法併網部長你知道這樣的事情嗎這個是在過去啦我們來了以後啊我們考慮了很多提出很多的解決方案"},{"start":384.399,"end":412.647,"text":"這個委員我可以再跟你報告因為我這邊看到至少到目前為止還在再生能源業者等著要併網的件數有1536件其實非常非常的多而且有很多有300億件等超過兩年那你這邊你說你有那個更新的一個書你再跟我本席這邊做報告那我這邊要特別講一個情況比方說在這樣的一個情況之下我想問一下因為這幾年台電"},{"start":413.467,"end":433.502,"text":"除了一直要從政府這邊要錢去增資去撥補到明年預價5000億這是一個很龐大的數字但有2000億還在立法院當中我想要問一下在這麼多錢當中的時候台電也不對在投入他們的一個固定資產的一個建設計畫當中明年有多少金額這個我是不是請可以總經理回答報告委員明年在固定資產"},{"start":443.834,"end":445.295,"text":"臺電要付出的利息就超過320億 這個數字是正確的嘛 對不對"},{"start":472.275,"end":498.006,"text":"320億有多大?右邊我們看到包括外交部一年的公務預算都還沒有那麼高只有319億司法院、文化部、總統府、速發部、環境部、立法院、監察院、僑委會、經管會這麼多十大的一個單位包含總統府在內一年的預算都沒有320億我們台電光是付利息的支出就要320億那這當中肯定是有很多政策上的"},{"start":501.008,"end":518.72,"text":"本席也希望部長這邊能夠好好的去把台電這邊的體質做一個優化因為你上次在我們委員會當中你也直接承諾如果爭取到這兩千億的一個撥補的預算如果台電還要再繼續"},{"start":521.99,"end":549.233,"text":"調漲電費你就要下台有這樣的事情嗎?部長跟委員報告剛剛您提到那個舉債這麼多主要是因為台電的設備都是大型的投資都是長期的投資理解可是說我們本來想說台電他是一個公營系本來想自己賺錢自己來做投資這是最好的一個狀態可是現在很大部分都按照要由政府這邊來撥補所以我們認為不太適合所以我想針對部長這個部分因為部長也提出了要求"},{"start":549.953,"end":575.028,"text":"我們政府能夠撥補台電兩千億包括追加預算跟明年的預算然後如果再調高電費你這邊之前有承諾過還是說你這邊有其他的說法跟看法簡單回應一下好不好部長報告兩千億是補那個名稱我知道讓部長回答好不好總經理謝謝報告委員我在之前很久以前我曾經有這樣說過了是"},{"start":577.17,"end":590.28,"text":"本席希望你能夠好好把台電這邊體制健全起來不要繼續要政府持續的撥補三年五千億實在是太多了好不好謝謝委員 這方面是我的專長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":524,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時36分）主席好，我想請一下郭部長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長好。你從企業界轉到公部門當中，也知道我對於你有一些期待，因為我們希望你能夠把企業界一些好的特質帶到公部門裡面來，不過因為企業界是國際化的，然後公部門當中有一些重要的原則是要特別去遵守的，比方說，我們公部門有很大的一個部分，也是希望我們的產業能夠在國內生根，儘量減少外移。","我稍微看了一下，台積電2022年在熊本動工，當年其實崇越也跟著去，您當時還是崇越的董事長，對不對？2023年的時候，崇越在熊本就開始有營業據點出來，這都沒有問題，畢竟您在企業界，原本就是台積電半導體產業鏈的一環，這些我們大概都能理解。我只是在想，2024年您接部長之後，提出了一個很重要的政策，就是境外關內的部分，目前確實你也努力的讓整個半導體供應鏈可以一起到熊本去，是有這樣的事情，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，是這樣子的，日本熊本JASM這家公司，事實上有日本的股份，就我所了解，他們要求5年以後，60%的材料通通要跟日本買。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，理解。部長，因為這個事情目前是這樣在走，整個方向確實也就是如此，昨天其他委員有特別提到，您現在好像變成是日本招商局局長，關於這件事情，待會會有時間讓你回應，我只是要特別講到一個點，當整個台積電所帶動的半導體供應鏈一起到日本去的時候，對臺灣來講，是不是能夠爭取到更多的條件、更好的條件，為臺灣爭取更多的國家利益？所以我這邊的問題是，針對這樣一件事情，台積電如果不斷的外移，原本我們都認為台積電是護國神山這樣一個效力會不會減少？剛剛也有委員提到去亞利桑那州設廠的問題，台積電不斷的出走之後，你覺得對於臺灣的護國能量會不會降低？"],["郭部長智輝：完全不會降低，而且會幫助台積電在未來的市場裡面更加的雄偉，為什麼會說更加的雄偉？因為你必須要用很多國外的人才來經營國外的市場，因為在臺灣，我們是技術領先，但是在市場上面，我們要服務各個海外市場的客人，所以以台積電這麼優秀的技術本位，為什麼人家會需要它到美國去、到歐洲或到日本，主要是當地的市場需求。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是市場的問題嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：是市場的需求。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長，我理解這個部分，我只是要特別提到，因為當台積電，尤其有很多先進的製程不斷外移的時候，我們面對台積電對臺灣護國的效力時，你剛剛講說會愈來愈雄偉，其實很多人肯定不認同，很多學者專家也不認同，我希望針對這個部分，你要好好地去拿捏，尤其是我剛剛提到的。2022年一路過來，您從企業家轉換成部長的狀態，同時去做了一個境外關內的政策時，很多人都覺得這就是擺明要讓臺灣的產業一起打包集體外移嘛，所以這個部分，我們希望經濟部在做這個過程的時候一定要為臺灣爭取到更多的資源。比方說，我們整體的半導體產業鏈到日本熊本去的時候，日本是不是能更大力地支持我們進入CPTPP，類似這樣的條件，或者是其他另外的一些關稅、其他投資臺灣的相關部分，我們希望把臺灣半導體外移的動作，變成我們跟其他國家談判的籌碼，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：確實是如委員所垂詢的，我們所做的部分都是為了使臺灣的產業更具有世界競爭力，所以我們去的時候是以大帶小。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。"],["郭部長智輝：那是具有競爭力的產業，我們臺灣的中小企業特別多，中小企業要發展海外的事業其實有它的困難，經濟部的立場就是幫他們順利地落地。第二個，幫他們爭取稅金上面的優惠，如果我們不是用經濟部的立場，相信我們中小企業要去跟當地國談這種所謂的投資優惠，應該是談不了的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：另外一個部分，我也希望過去的時候日本能加強對臺灣的投資力度，在談判當中，我們都希望把它談進來，好不好？","部長，接下來我還是要問到有關台電的問題，因為整個初步的能源政策大家講了很久，台電財務的惡性循環，我這邊要特別提到，我常聽到的狀態是，有很多配合政府去做再生能源的業者，他們設備都投資完成了，可是因為饋線的不足，還有其他相關配套不足以致沒有辦法併網，部長知道這樣的事情嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個是在過去，我來了以後，我們考慮了很多，提出了很多的解決方案，委員，這個我可以再跟你報告。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，好，因為我這邊看到，至少到目前為止，再生能源業者等著要併網的件數有1,536件，其實是非常多，尤其有三百多件等了超過兩年，但你說你有更新的數據，請再跟本席這邊報告。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我這邊要特別講一個情況，比方說，在這樣的情況之下，我想問一下，因為這幾年台電除了一直要從政府這邊拿錢去增資、撥補，到明年預計要5,000億，這是一個很龐大的數字，有2,000億還在立法院當中。我想要問一下，在這麼多錢當中，台電也不斷地在投入他們固定資產的建設計畫，明年有多少金額？"],["郭部長智輝：這個我是不是請……"],["鄭委員正鈐：可以，請總經理回答。"],["王總經理耀庭：報告委員，明年固定資產，再加上我們一般建築的這個部分，大概是2,690億。"],["鄭委員正鈐：2,690億中的外界資金有多少？"],["王總經理耀庭：外界的資金大概有2,100億。"],["鄭委員正鈐：要2,100億，我們後來算了一下，這麼高的狀況，光是明年台電要付出的利息就超過320億，這個數字是正確的對不對？"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：320億有多大？右邊我們看到，包括外交部一年的公務預算都還沒有那邊高，只有319億；司法院、文化部、總統府、數發部、環境部、立法院、監察院、僑委會、金管會，這十大單位，包括總統府在內的這麼多單位，一年的預算都沒有320億，你們台電光是付利息的支出就要320億。這當中肯定有很多政策上的不當，才導致這樣的情況，所以本席也希望部長這邊能夠好好地把台電這邊的體質做一個優化。因為你上次在我們委員會中也直接承諾，如果爭取到撥補這2,000億的預算，如果台電還要再繼續調漲電費，你就要下台，有這樣的事情嗎？部長。"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，剛剛您提到舉債有這麼多，主要是因為台電的設備都是大型的投資，都是長期的投資，所以需要……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。可是我們本來想說，台電是個公營事業，本來想自己賺錢、自己投資的，這是最好的狀態……可是現在很大一部分都是按照……要由政府這邊來撥補，所以我們認為不太適合。我想，針對部長這個部分，因為部長也提出要求政府撥補台電2,000億，包括追加預算跟明年的預算，如果再調高電費，你在這邊之前有承諾過，還是說你這邊有其他的說法跟看法，簡單回應一下好不好？部長。"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，那2,000億是補民生的……"],["鄭委員正鈐：撥補我知道，讓部長回答好不好？總經理，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我在之前、很久以前曾經有這樣說過。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，OK。本席希望你們能好好地把台電的體質健全起來，不要讓政府持續地撥補。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：3年5,000億實在是太多了。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，這方面是我的專長。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝，部長請回座。","現在休息6分鐘，必要時延長2分鐘。","休息（10時46分）","繼續開會（10時54分）"],["主席：好，列席官員請回座，我們現在繼續開會。","下一位質詢請張嘉郡委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-15","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","陳超明","羅智強","賴士葆","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","葉元之","林德福"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣電力股份有限公\n司、台灣自來水股份有限公司（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00001"}}}